Palin slams threat to burn Korans
Updated
Koran burning threat: A trailer outside the entrance to the Dove World Outreach Centre in Gainesville, Florida (AFP: Phelan M Ebenhack)
UN secretary-general Ban Ki-moon and former US vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin have joined the condemnation of a small US church which plans to mark the anniversary of the September 11 attacks by burning a pile of Korans.
The Dove World Outreach Centre in Florida says it will burn the Korans as a warning to radical Islam, ignoring appeals by US authorities and condemnation by governments around the world.
UN spokesman Farhan Haq said Mr Ban believed the planned book burning contradicted the efforts of UN and could endanger aid workers in Afghanistan.
"The secretary-general is deeply disturbed by reports of a small religious group which plans to burn copies of the Koran," Mr Haq said.
"Such actions cannot be condoned by any religion. They contradict the efforts of the United Nations and many people around the world to promote tolerance, intercultural understanding and mutual respect between cultures and religions."
Ms Palin called the proposed burning an "insensitive and an unnecessary provocation" and "antithetical to American ideals".
"People have a constitutional right to burn a Koran if they want to, but doing so is insensitive and an unnecessary provocation - much like building a mosque at Ground Zero," she said.
"It will feed the fire of caustic rhetoric and appear as nothing more than mean-spirited religious intolerance. Don't feed that fire.
"If your ultimate point is to prove that the Christian teachings of mercy, justice, freedom, and equality provide the foundation on which our country stands, then your tactic to prove this point is totally counter-productive."
The church's pastor, Terry Jones, says the church's message is targeted at radical Islam.
"We want them to know if they're in America, they need to obey our law and constitution and not slowly push their agenda upon us," he told the CBS television channel.
Mr Jones has indicated he was praying for guidance on whether to go ahead with the incendiary event, but it appeared the evangelical church was determined it would take place.
"As of right now, we feel that this message is that important. We are still determined to do it," he said.
US secretary of state Hillary Clinton has denounced the plans as "disgraceful" amid fears it will spur an angry backlash in the Islamic world, and could endanger the lives of allied and US troops in Afghanistan.
The event by the obscure evangelical church, said to have about 50 members, has thrust an unwanted spotlight on the normally quiet town of some 124,000 people situated in north-central Florida.
Mr Jones, a gun-toting pastor who has headed the church since 2001 and has acknowledged receiving death threats, is also the author of a book entitled Islam Is Of The Devil.
He has said he wants to honour the memory of the almost 3,000 people killed by Al Qaeda militants in the 9/11 attacks on the United States.
The US State Department has called Mr Jones' church "a very small fringe group" which does not represent the views of the US or Americans as a whole.
The scheme has already inflamed passions in the Islamic world, and could trigger further anger as it may coincide with the Eid al-Fitr feast that marks the end of the holy fasting month of Ramadan also due this weekend.
First posted
Comments (77)
Comments for this story are closed, but you can still have your say.
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ABC (Moderator):
09 Sep 2010 7:48:51am
Does the right to freedom of expression outweigh the potential for backlash?
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GH:
09 Sep 2010 8:05:12am
Freedom of expression is one of the things that makes our society what it is. Without freedom of expression, different opinions would not be voiced and some forms of change would not occour.
However, this particular incident is more of a case of abusing that freedom - one has to understand things like sensibilities and cultural differences, and be tactful in what is said and done. This protest could be done differently, but it being deliberately undertaken in a way that *will* cause backlash. And that is abusing the freedom of expression.
That said, the freedom of expression also works the other way round. As much as Mr. Jones has a right to do this, I have as much of a right to see what he is doing, say that he is a racist, intolerant bigot, and ignore him.Agree (6) Alert moderator
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M:
09 Sep 2010 10:14:55am
Sarah Palin is a moron, but her quote in the article is right on the money. The church is free to do as it pleases but it needs to ask itself the question of whether it is wise to exercise its freedom in this instance. The church should heed the advice of St Paul - "[For Christians] 'everything is permissible' but not everything is beneficial".
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Kerry Lamb:
09 Sep 2010 8:09:18am
I'm not sure inciting religious hatred is the kind of 'freedom of expression' we all value as a basic right in any society. The 9/11 attack was the ultimate 'expression'. Burning the holy book of any other religion is a hateful and intolerant act and actually denies a right to religious 'expression' by another group. It flies in the face of what Americans say they hold most dear.
The potential for backlash is very potent, and frightening, but this potential should not be what stops the planned act. Common human decency is. Where are the deeply humane members of that particular 'church'???Agree (2) Alert moderator
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Peter Smith:
09 Sep 2010 8:44:57am
While I condemn the burning of a sacred book such as the Koran, pastor Jones' actions cannot be simply written off as the rantings of a religious crank. His actions have gained traction in the wider community because their are real and legitimate fears about radical Islam. People like Jones will gradually gather a massive following because mainstream political leaders are refusing to confront this dangerous phenomenon.
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M.MacLeod:
09 Sep 2010 10:02:19am
I unfortunately think this is true - I get the impression there are a large number of people who think this is a wonderful idea.
Such hypocrisy - isn't this an example of extreme Christianity, the type which should be feared as much as (or more than due to it's influential position) extremist Islam?
I am wary of all institutionalised religions: too easily do they lead to the most appalling behaviour, en masse.
I also believe, however, that a religion should not (neccessarily) be judged by it's followers; they make all religions look bad!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Freedom:
09 Sep 2010 10:04:08am
I agree Peter that this is a tricky issue to navigate. I think that avoiding talking about the radical elements of any religion under the guise of tolerance and sensitivity enables those elements to carry on unchecked. People who blow themselves up in the name of religion is one thing but killing innocent others in the process is something else. This is the element that has to be dealt with but we must make sure we don't generalise and we are absolutely clear about who and what we are talking about here. Unfortunately in the highly charged realm of religion that is very difficult to do.
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rob1966:
09 Sep 2010 10:06:56am
I have real and legitimate fears about radical Christianity - but I don't run around burning Bibles.
People like Jones are part of the problem - and increase the tension between the religious groupsAgree (5) Alert moderator
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Tim Hoff:
09 Sep 2010 8:38:31am
Yes "freedom of expression does outweigh the backlash", however with the 'right' to freedom of expression comes responsibility and common sense.
Yes, this guy has the right to do what he is doing and the trrops in Afghanistan are indirectly defending this right.
What he is doing is totally irresponsible and lacks common sense but if he buys the books and there are no fire bans and he breaks no other laws then he should be free to express his point of view.
Any "backlash" will be just added to the inflating price of freedom.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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casewithscience:
09 Sep 2010 8:57:43am
Freedom of speech - sure, they can do this.
The real question appears to be whether it is good ettiquette. Personally, I think publicising some of the statements in the Koran would be far more effective use of freedom of speech to cause people to avoid islam (same can be said for the bible). But, I would have to respect the freedoms of this fringe group. They aren't technically hurting anyone. They are just being crass americans.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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CF Zero:
09 Sep 2010 9:20:22am
I have no problem with people from one religion expressing what they think of another, I just reserve the right to treat them all as irrelevant idiots.
Again, people choose to participate in religion, it is not something they are born with and it is perfectly acceptable to judge people for how they choose to behave.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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The 3rd Chimpanzee:
09 Sep 2010 10:34:14am
Burning the Koran isn't "freedom of expression": it's vilification of a religious group. It's not "a warning to radical Islam": it's a desecration and offence to all people of Islam. It's an abuse, that's all it is. IANAL, but the legal protection of the right surely ends at this boundary.
Same for the wilful destruction any group's religious artefacts by members of another group.
He says he is directing the "message" at radicals, but his actions are to offend all of Islam.
Not that he either understands or cares about the difference.
"Mr Jones, a gun-toting pastor ..." That explains it: He's a complete nutcake who's got in charge of a microphone!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Rhys:
09 Sep 2010 7:59:18am
Maybe, but what if I wanted to start a group that burns bibles?
What would the backlash be then?Agree (1) Alert moderator
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Richard:
09 Sep 2010 8:19:37am
Provided that you lawfully own the bible then you have a lawful right to do with it as you wish. The same with any book or other property of yours. You would only fall foul of the law if you damaged or destroyed the property of another.
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Michael:
09 Sep 2010 9:24:14am
In today's anti-Christian culture, I'm sure many would celebrate burning bibles. Why should we have to tiptoe around Muslim culture for fear of offending someone?
I don't condone the Koran burning that this group is planning; just pointing out the inconsistency that allows vilifying one religion, while being "sensitive" towards another...Agree (3) Alert moderator
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jr54:
09 Sep 2010 9:55:38am
The concept of burning ANY book is so medieval and horrifying that the specifics of which book seems irrelevant to me.
This is a spectacularly ridiculous form of "expression", and one that identifies its proponents' complete lack of thought, humanity or desire to make the world a better place.Agree (2) Alert moderator
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Belma:
09 Sep 2010 8:00:29am
No, it doesn't. He should be arrested because the victims blood, and there will be innocent victims if he goes through with this, will be on his hands.
Plus this has nothing to do with freedom of expression so he should be arrested by authorities as a threat to national security.
Other plus, I'll bet you he has never read anything about Islam and has no idea what he's talking about.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Freedom:
09 Sep 2010 10:06:31am
Arrested as a threat to national security? That is a dangerous and slippery slope you are walking down Michael.
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Annie:
09 Sep 2010 10:35:09am
Belma, I think you are absolutely spot on when you say he likely has never read the Koran or anything about Islam.
His actions are truly born of ignorance.
He says he is commemorating 9/11 and those lost, but what he is doing is actually enticing another event.
Luckily he only has about 50 parishoners, and I don't know why the media has picked up on this.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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CharlieB:
09 Sep 2010 8:02:34am
Freedom of expression involves simply saying what you think. Book burning is not a legitimate way to express your views.
The proposal to burn the Koran is immature bullying and displaying/inciting religious hate. It is the antithesis of christian behaviour.Agree (3) Alert moderator
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casewithscience:
09 Sep 2010 8:59:16am
The Supreme Court of the US would disagree apropo flag burning.
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hendrikus:
09 Sep 2010 9:17:29am
better read some history my friend it is soaked in blood spilled by christians.
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M:
09 Sep 2010 10:27:42am
Blood is spilled by everyone in history. Christians don't have a monopoly on historical violence that is distasteful in the modern age.
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Peter J:
09 Sep 2010 8:03:20am
I don't agree with this pastor's action however I can understand his frustration. Everyday there are radical Muslims who persecute people from other religions in places like Northern Pakistan, Afghanistan and Kashmir yet they don't rate a mention in most main stream media probably because we don't want to appear to be intolerant yet this small church in Florida gets into international news. If we really belive in tolerance then lets call all religious intolerance into account.
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Kelloveck:
09 Sep 2010 8:17:54am
This pastor is a lunatic and is basically equating Islam with terrorism. He is a radical Christian and yet he speaks of the threat of radical Muslims...go figure!
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rob1966:
09 Sep 2010 8:42:51am
For every "radical Muslim" there is a "radical Christian".
True most "radical Christians" may not go around blowing themselves and others up, but some do. "Radical Christians" are more likely to incite hatred, to vilify those who are different or to to harass and abuse; but the odd one will murder or committ an act of what is now called "terrorism".
Lunatic fundamentalist Christians (such as this US Pastor) are no better than the lunatic fundamentalist Muslims they fear.
Perhaps we should round them all up, thron them in a large locked room and let them sort it out amongst themselves; in the process letting the rest of the world to proceed in peace.Agree (2) Alert moderator
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michaelp:
09 Sep 2010 9:36:36am
And BTW we are currently engaged in war against those people you say 'don't rate a mention' in case people forgot... we can seriously discuss book-burning as freedom of expression now? Strange times.
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Zac:
09 Sep 2010 8:05:43am
It's just a typical American extremist Christian group. It's a stupid and irresponsible move that isn't going to do anything but cause grief.
Still, it makes you wonder why there isn't worldwide condemnation of Muslim groups when they burn the bible.Agree (2) Alert moderator
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Naveed:
09 Sep 2010 8:30:56am
I am not sure where bibles have been burnt.. But I can tell you that Muslims are not allowed to burn the bible as it contains many parts common with the Quran. So burning the Bible for a Muslim is like burning parts of Quran.
Doen;t mean that ill informed illiterate people won;t do it.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Mr X:
09 Sep 2010 9:04:11am
I fully agree that is action is not helpful in any way. However, how often do you know of people burning bibles?
Really, how often?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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RobS:
09 Sep 2010 8:06:32am
Have just watched an interview, conducted by Anderson Cooper, with the good Reverend. His evasive responses to the interviewer's questions made it clear that the action he is proposing is based on his opinions, solely. He purports to speak for 'all Americans' and 'all Christians'. In point of fact, he does not. His arguments for keeping 'Moslems' out of the United States are not unlike the arguments put forth by segregationists, back in the 50's and 60's to deny rights and freedoms to Black Americans. Although he has a right to freedom of speech; he also has to exercise a duty of care in terms of responsible actions to well and truly use that freedom judiciously. Given his statements: The Reverend's right to freedom of expression does not outweigh the potential danger that could be caused by his actions. And the fact that he is using the 'excuse' of the anniversary of the destruction of the World Trade Centre to carry out his personal and potentially dangerous agenda, makes his behaviour all the more reprehensible. In no way is he honouring or respecting those people who were murdered, just because they went to work on that sunny, clear September morning.
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Lu:
09 Sep 2010 9:19:27am
Agreed Rob, ths guy does seem to be pushing his own agenda and co-opting the September 11 attacks is disrespectful to the memories of the victims. I find it ironic that he sees his proposed 'event' as honouring the victims but I wonder how many of the people who died in the attacks who were working in the towers followed Islam? I would guess that not everyone caught up in the tragedy was Christian either. The events of that fateful day effected every race, creed and colour.
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Tony:
09 Sep 2010 8:10:17am
One of the cornerstones of Democracy is freedom of speech or expression. Even though burning the Koran is a gesture that would upset all Muslims, in the Western world we allow such protests to occur without threatening them with being stoned to death. The UN secretary-general and the UN have offered stunning silence following the burning of Christian Churches and killing and persecution of Christians in general in Africa and elsewhere, so a bit of perspective may be what is required here.
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Fran:
09 Sep 2010 8:53:10am
I agree. It's enormous double standards for the UN, who never seem to make a peep about all the burning of effigies, churches or holy materials which are perpetrated against Christians. I can also understand the American's horror and trauma at what was done to their country in 9/11; not only the horrific public murders, but also the symbolism of it, and the fear it inspired in their people.
I don't agree with the burning of any religion's book, but the public, media, government & UN reaction seems way out of proportion. It does show how frightened everyone has become of these radical terrorists, and the power they now wield in the world, quashing expressions such as this, for fear of repercussions, whilst engaging in similar intolerant acts constantly without comment.Agree (2) Alert moderator
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Arrow:
09 Sep 2010 9:43:45am
Wrong Fran. The UN frequently condemns violence and intolerance against Christians, just as it does against other religions.
Google 'UN interfaith dialogue' to learn more about the UN and religious tolerance.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Geoff :
09 Sep 2010 8:11:48am
Freedom of expression is fine. But it DOES have consequences. This fool should reconsider burning the Koran. It's a very symbolic act, and one that is bound to bring the wrath of Allah's followers down on him. Very silly move. Me, I'm an atheist, so I think both books are just fairy tales, but I can have my beliefs and you can have yours. But this loonie is going to far.
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yazbell:
09 Sep 2010 8:26:41am
Freedom of expression is no excuse for acting like a child! This is a little like a petulant child saying "But he hit me first". Grow up, take the high road and don't add fuel to the fire!
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Chris:
09 Sep 2010 8:27:18am
I'm surprised that the authorities haven't moved in and arrested him on the grounds of inciting violence and civil unrest.
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Naveed:
09 Sep 2010 8:27:46am
I wonder if he knows he is also burning the old testament when he is burning the Quran.
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Richard:
09 Sep 2010 8:33:18am
This whole thing highlights the intolerance of religions, particularly the muslim religion. Burning a few copies of the koran will not achieve any physical improvements for humanity, but may make the burners feel better and therefore could be described as a form of therapy for those few.
The issue here is one of rights. In a free democracy individuals have rights to speak their minds and rights to use their property as they see fit. If these people see fit to destroy their own property then that is their right.
Where I agree with Pastor Smith is that when someone enters another country they are subject to the laws and cultural norms of their host and should respect those laws and cultural norms. If they don't, then they should be punished and expelled.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Arrow:
09 Sep 2010 9:45:38am
Richard - the problem with your last paragraph is that "cultural norms" are in the eye of the beholder.
I'd say religious tolerance is a cultural norm of the US, and this Pastor is the one who should smarten up. Crikey, even Sarah Palin agrees with me.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Johnno:
09 Sep 2010 8:34:15am
Ritual book burning is the greatest crime against civilisation, practiced almost exclusively by tyrannical regimes and would-be dictators. Far from being freedom of speech, it is the ultimate rejection of that freedom by seeking to destroy the knowledge and ideas of humanity. And it makes no difference what the book is.
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Dave:
09 Sep 2010 8:37:28am
The Bible gets abused everyday, but as a Christian, I don't have the right to make death threats to those who abuse it. When some atheist or moslem says The Bible is lies or rips one up, Christians have to take it. It is about time the west stopped reacting to every little threat that muslims make. If they want to live in our society, they should understand that freedom comes in many forms and death threats are not how we decide what happens.
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TassieMan:
09 Sep 2010 8:55:52am
Dave, this is not about a reaction to a "little threat that Muslims make". This is about mature people having an intellectual discussion about the contemporary issues around religeous intolerance. By putting forward your support of this obscene gesture you have contributed to the debate.
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GT:
09 Sep 2010 8:57:45am
Two wrongs do NOT make a right. Yes, the Bible gets abused and burnt....and what do we label these people? We label them as extremists....we say they are nutters....but we do not condone these actions. No one is stopping the burning of the Koran, but that doesn't make the actions right, justified or any less hateful and extremist.
Why does this man garner greater criticism? Because he is an American, in America. America regards itself as the pinnacle of what a nation should strive to be, therefore it has an obligation to uphold standards. Other nations garner less criticism because we dismiss them as inferior and then use their actions such as burning the bible as an example of this. When you sink to that level, you become no better than those you criticise.
On the subject of "targeting the extremists"...how in the world does this target them? It targets ALL muslims. It is the protest equivalent of bombing an entire village to kill off one household of terrorists.....and then just dismissing the rest of the village as collateral. "Oh, but we were just targetting those terrorists" simply does not cut it!Agree (0) Alert moderator
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freedom:
09 Sep 2010 8:42:26am
should freedom of expression allow people to be grossly irresponsible and offensive? i'm pretty sure there are laws already in place in the US that would preventy that - should apply in this case also potentially. BTW - no one, and i mean no one in the entire world - cares what Ban Ki Moon thinks. Someone should really tell the poor guy.
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Tony:
09 Sep 2010 8:43:13am
So I get it. The burning of a book creates far more world backlash than the stoning to death of an innocent women. What a lovely world we live in!!!!!!!!!!!
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D:
09 Sep 2010 8:44:58am
Freedom of expression is great when it is coupled with consideration for others and the consequences of your actions. Enforcing your own freedoms without taking responsibility for your actions is foolish.
This man is enforcing his right to freedom of expression without any consideration of the conseqences it might have, or acknowledgement that it will further erode any hope of a peaceful outcome between the Islam world and the West.
I don't think Jesus would do this.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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sirfire:
09 Sep 2010 8:49:35am
Disgrace is the only thing that comes into my mind. This is only inciting hatred and confirming to radicals that what they are doing is the right thing for Islam. Sorry but they should stop this as freedom of speech should not cost innocent lives.
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religious freedoms:
09 Sep 2010 8:50:37am
Don't talk to me about the right of freedom of expression and religion! That is an oxymoron.
We have legislation in this country that allows religion to legally discriminate and be exempt from our human rights anti discrimination Acts.
What we are seeing in America is more of the same.
We are witnessing religion expressing its legislation-approved right to express intolerance, bigotry, sexism and homophobia against anyone who does not fit into their crazed religious belief system.
What we are seeing in America is another appalling demonstration of why religion should not be above the law.
The crazed church that threatens this act of provocation and extreme bigotry would have tax exempt charity status in Australia and no doubt enjoys this charitable status in America!
Bigotry and intolerance are enshrined in our laws and those in America by way of exemption from anti discrimination legislation. Thus we see the religious freedom to discriminate and religious freedom of speech to vilify being used by these lunatics to foster more religious bigotry and hatred.
Religious exemption from anti discrimination legislation must cease.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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The Unforlorn:
09 Sep 2010 8:52:22am
There is nothing at all to be gained from shutting people like Jones away from society and pretending they don't exist. We need people like him to remind society that we aren't quite as civilised as we might make ourselves out to be. And we need to keep asking ourselves what causes people to continually become like Jones. Otherwise we won't continue to grow.
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an islander:
09 Sep 2010 9:19:18am
Not quite. This Jones can only be instructive if he "see the light" before 9/11, cancels the burning and starts preaching tolerance. He's got lots of attention now. Otherwise he just validates the christian extremists and perpetuates hatred.
He is deliberately provoking anyone who thinks the Koran is a religious text, but violent reprisals will probably come from his intended target audience. Lucky for him, he's safe in Florida.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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casewithscience:
09 Sep 2010 9:01:16am
I don't know why anyone is suprised, the Christians have used book burning throughout their tradition - see Acts 19: 19.
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Wraith:
09 Sep 2010 9:18:36am
Good to see you're using context there. What happened in Acts 19:19 was a symbolic act seperating them from their former beliefs. I would be very surprised if this pastor had been a muslim so this is a completely different situation.
As a Christian this action disappoints me. While I do not believe in the legitimacy of the Quran as the word of God there is no benefit to intentionally doing something that will cause a great deal of offense. While it is true that Christians are treated poorly throughout the world anyone who truly understands the Gospel will know that we are called to a higher standard.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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jpgrygus:
09 Sep 2010 9:07:20am
Freedom of expression is one thing..inciting hatred and violence is another.
Freedom of expression should not be used as an excuse to do whatever we want whenever we want. It must be within reason.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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sandshoe:
09 Sep 2010 9:08:31am
Does the right to freedom of expression outweigh the potential for backlash?
No. Politicians need to deal with the reality of conflicts in religious doctrines in the population.
Burning a book hurts no-one, its not a crime to destroy your own property.
Besides - I thnk you'll find this is a direct response to the idea of building a 13 storey islamic community centre and Mosque near Ground Zero.
Burn the book.
But I'd much rather see all books preaching religious doctrines critically reviewed to DELETE ALL justifications of hatred and violence towards one's fellow human beings.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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peacenik:
09 Sep 2010 9:09:56am
Hey Terry Jones, Have you noticed that the survivors of Hiroshima don't burn bibles on the 6th August? Do you think they should? It does go to show how "a very small fringe group" can blacken the name of an entire religion though.
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afflicted:
09 Sep 2010 9:11:21am
*The church's pastor, Terry Jones, has said the church's message was targeted at radical Islam.*
Unlike his home ground brand of good wholesome religiosity!
What can you expect from the religiously afflicted?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Roy:
09 Sep 2010 9:16:30am
Muslims have right to worship and build their worship places in our western society. Try taking a your personal bible in you bag when you are travaling to Middle East country and see what happens????
We give too much care and thought for what Extreem Muslims want and keep forgetting our own rights and values.
by any mean im not saying what that pastor in USA is doing right but why do we always have watch ourself not to offend muslims but they can burn and kill non muslims in Middle East and some african countrys and we just ignore it because thats their way of life so we have to accept it.
Atleast Muslims have freedom to worship in our western society but we do not even have the right in exist in their societies in Muslim Countrys.
So any muslim whos getting stired up by this US pastor should question yourself first about your own conducts in Muslim countrys.Agree (1) Alert moderator
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samtheman:
09 Sep 2010 9:19:18am
This type of intolerance, coming from a supposed Christian pastor, just shows how much religions which preach peace can be hijacked to further the individual's aggressive agenda. At least Christianity has managed to largely separate politics from its affairs though.
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Umz in Brisbane:
09 Sep 2010 10:15:40am
Christian politics were primarily divorced from socciety by the push for a Western secular paradigm, not initiated by the church.
Islam proposes itself as the way for the society to live, so there is no seperation of church and state in its application, much like the Christain church prior to the Age of Enlightment & Industrialisation.
Its 1431 on the Islamic calendar, what position was the Church in during the 1400 A.D.?
Islam is approaching an idealogical tipping point, much like the Christianity had to deal with over 600 years ago.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Indigo:
09 Sep 2010 9:23:46am
The whole idea is just STUPID.... this 'chruch' should be closed down. There is enough hatred between religious groups around the world already, why allow some crazy fanatics to add fuel to the flames of fear and narrow mindedness ?
It seems all about revenge..... but to do this is just madness, freedom of speech is one thing, but this will just perpetuate more hatered around the world.
NO !! Stop him, and remove him from his position of influence over those who believe in his radical methods.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Joe Monterrubio:
09 Sep 2010 9:24:10am
"Does the right to freedom of expression outweigh the potential for backlash?"
Is this the right question to be asking?
If the Dove World Outreach Centre wished to make a statement solely against terrorists, by burning Korans they will demonstrate a ignorant, yet sadly commonplace, conflation of Islam with terrorism. They could simply burn Osama Bin Laden in effigy.
Their intended action makes exactly as much sense as burning Bibles to protest against Irish sectarian violence: None.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Shaun Newman:
09 Sep 2010 9:35:37am
Is there no law in the USA, against inciting racial hatred? These evangelistic loonies are as bad as the extremists on the other side.
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as bad:
09 Sep 2010 10:03:08am
until they directly kill thousands of innocent people, by for example flying hijacked planes into skyscrapers, they cannot be considered anywhere near as bad as at least some of the extremists on "the other side" as you put it. some perspective please! i do agree that they are morons and the book burning shouldn't be allowed to go ahead, even in a free country.
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Zombie James:
09 Sep 2010 9:38:23am
Freedom of expression has to be balanced against the negative consequences of that expression. Publishing pornography, yelling "fire" in theatres, slandering your neighbour and giving false witness in a court are examples of self expression that is limited because of potential harm. Hopefully in Australia this Pastor's action would be covered by hate speech legislation.
The real censorship is conducted via fear and social pressures for conformity.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Good Grief:
09 Sep 2010 9:44:47am
I don't consider this to be freedom of expression. It is an act of violence driven by hate. This is inciting intolerance and bigotry and has a darker agenda. Jones and his followers would do better to invite Muslims to their church and pray together and get to know each other and learn what values they share and what they can do together to create a better world for all. Book burning is disgusting enough, burning another belief's holy book is outrageous. Why isn't anyone pointing out that Muslims also died in the towers on Sept 11?
It is unfortunate that it is always the extremists who get all the attention. This man is giving his religion the same face as any radical who follows Islam and calls for outrageous acts against Infidels.
I wonder if this church in Florida believes it is a Christian church. They seem to be following the First Testaments not the teachings of Jesus. Christianity only arose after Jesus and he never professed, condoned or partook in violence on others. He led by example and promoted love, togetherness, unity and understanding. Those 'believers' who carry such outrageous beliefs of extreme anger and violence within them, and burning this Koran is an act of violence, should reconsider what they view as their own form of Christianity and come up with another name for themselves.
If they go ahead, the best thing that can happen is that no media covers it. If only, sigh.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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M.MacLeod:
09 Sep 2010 10:05:15am
Rights = Responsibility: how easily we forget that.
With freedom comes responsibility for acting in a way to honour, respect and enable that freedom for everyone, not just yourself.
So this act is, when you really think about it, contrary to "freedom of expression" - it's damaging to that freedom.
How easily we abuse the freedoms and rights that others fought, fight, die for.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Reeper:
09 Sep 2010 10:11:29am
This Koran burner is a fool, but he is reacting to the impression correct or otherwise - that a lot of people have about Islam that it condones acts of violence, including bombings and executions, in the name of God. If the Koran does not approve these acts, why do Moslems refuse to stand up, protest, and end this behaviour? On the other hand, if the Koran does approve acts of murder, cruelty and violence, then I see no problem in burning it.
Ive got to say burning a Koran is nothing compared to the atrocities carried out in the name of Islam e.g. a stoning death sentences imposed on women found guilty of adultery in Iran, Somalia and Afghanistan; executions of alleged converts to Christianity in those countries; caning sentences imposed on women such as Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno in Malaysia for drinking a beer with her husband in a hotel lobby in 2008; the approval of stoning and caning for those guilty of religious crimes in Aceh province last year.
I realise there are many different interpretations of Islam, but not one of them seem to be actively trying to stop let alone publically speak out against - the atrocities committed in its name. If they do exist they have been very successful at staying out of the mainstream media. Certainly the international community, including the Catholic Church and the US secretary of state, seem to be more vocal about burning books than they are against religiously condoned executions and canings.
If you are prepared to get outraged over our redneck book burner, then you should be doing a lot more about the condoned executions and canings of innocent women, children and menAgree (2) Alert moderator
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Not My Real Name:
09 Sep 2010 10:14:03am
Raising this as a question simply about freedom of expression versus potential backlash is oversimplified. The big issue here is the role of the media.
Just imagine if this guy was given no media coverage. Who would know about the Koran burning? Almost no-one. What would the event's impact be? Virtually nothing. It would be nothing without the media coverage! It's pretty obvious that there are millions of Christians around the world, including Ban Ki-moon, who don't burn copies of the Koran. However, this fact gets no coverage because it's not 'news'. But when one leader of a tiny congregation in an obscure part of the US decides to burn the Koran, the fact is blazoned all around the world by the media- causing considerable danger to many people in areas such as Afghanistan and no doubt many other parts of the world.
Something is definitely amiss here. Instead of seeing the solution to this sort of issue in the curtailment of individual freedom of expression, perhaps we should think far more seriously of whether the media should have the right to create security risks to the world by fanning such a tiny spark into what could well be a huge conflagration.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Ross:
09 Sep 2010 10:16:43am
Burning the Koran is an intentionally offensive act. The group threatening to do so are a small fringe Church in the USA. If they were ignored by the media, the act would probably go almost unnoticed. Any backlash that occurs will happen because the media has publicized the event worldwide. So whilst the folk doing the burning are ignorant bigots regarding Islam, I question the morality of the media in making this a major news story.
I am an expat living in a conservative Muslim country. The UN has put a warning out here that folk like me should be careful going out this weekend because of the expected backlash. Thanks to the media reporting, an idiotic act by a small fringe church in the US can potentially make me a target in the country where I live. We don't have to report the gross stupidities of every fringe nutcase in the world - especially when it could obviously cause a backlash that may get people hurt.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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granny:
09 Sep 2010 10:17:34am
This action by a man who calls himself a pastor is not the actions of a Christian. It also signifies the dumbing down of the US citizenry. That building, blocks away from ground zero, is a community centre, being built by one of the owners of Fox News, one of Ruperts' buddies. Instead of doing a little bit of research into the uses for the building, library, gymnasium, indoor, heated swimming pool, open to everyone. There is a tiny space in a corner of one of the rooms where Muslims may conduct their prayer sessions, for just a few minutes a day.
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Peter of Perth:
09 Sep 2010 10:26:40am
What is called extremist type behaviour and actions are becoming more widespread around the world with some much worse tha others and without condoning any of it I can't help wondering why it is only when "extremist" actions by westerners is all the fuss made?
What about the mass demonstrations against the west thgroughout the arab countries and Middle East? I think that we all should just accept that the forced mixing of the various races is not and never will work and will just continue getting worse as the world's poulation keeps growing and the tensions keep rising with it. Burning a Koran or a Bible is nothing compared to the murders and other atrocities we see every day and what are we doing about that?
A sad world only getting sadder I'm afraid.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Steve 1951:
09 Sep 2010 10:27:21am
I'm old enough to remember the regular US flag-burnings by anti-Vietnam-War activists. I am a Christian and identify myself as evangelical, and while I would probably not participate in a similar Koran burning, nonetheless if the US truly believes in freedom of speech, then what is gravy for the goose is gravy for ghe gander.
One needs bear in mind as well that there currently is widespread persecution and killing of Christians around the world by Moslems (the Sudan and Pakistan spring to mind), not just burning of Bibles. Where is the UN protest of that?Agree (0) Alert moderator
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Vincent:
09 Sep 2010 10:30:23am
Remember the Nazis? "Where Books are burned, there men are burned too"
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Sarah:
09 Sep 2010 10:36:57am
We, and the US, have laws about hate crimes which limit freedom of expression. I would consider the burning of anyone's holy texts a hate crime. How would the people burning the Koran feel if Islamic fundamentalists were to burn bibles?
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Rob:
09 Sep 2010 10:40:06am
With freedom comes responsibility. Freedom of expression gives one the right to express a contrary opinion in a calm, sensitive non provactive manner. It does not give one the right to insult others and to inflame hatred, prejudices and bigotry.
Would one have given Hitler the right to express his dislike of Jews the way he did?
Freedom of expression taken to extremes has led to many a demagogue using the genuine but sometimes illogical fears people have to further their own twisted beliefs.
Unfortunately it seems America has more than its fair share of demagogues. This idiot Jones is but one of them.Agree (0) Alert moderator
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