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This is an "It Just Bugs Me" entry. This area of the wiki is more friendly to the idea of conversation in the article itself, due to the highly subjective content. The regular entry on this topic is in the main wiki.
Star Wars Archive 2010


Please do not add to or alter the contents on this page. To view the latest discussion: Star Wars.


  • Palpatine seems to be acting insanely stupid right before his death. He knows that threats to Anakin's family generally constitute a Berserk Button and knows that Vader will eventually wind up trying to kill him anyway due to the Rule of Two, so why didn't he realize that zapping Vader's own son to death right in front of him would have rather nasty consequences?
    • Well first off, I believe that Word Of God would state that before Vader's ultimate redemption, he is not actually "Anakin" anymore, but a hollow shell of Anakin consumed by hatred, grief, etc. so Palpatine can easily be forgiven for not expecting his puppet, who hasn't ever directly disobeyed him after his conversion, to go ape-nuts and throw him into a reactor. Second, the "zapping to death" wasn't the true intention. Palpatine was attempting to use pain and torment to drive Luke to fight and kill Vader and become an even stronger puppet. He doesn't consider Vader because he is trying to replace him, in essence, with an even more powerful Skywalker. A bit of a gamble, no doubt, and one that definitely didn't pay off for him, but the way he saw it, either A) He got a brand new, insanely powerful diciple or B) Luke would be killed, Vader would remain powerful, and the Rebel Alliance would have lost it's great leader. Not insanely stupid, just a plan backfiring horrendously due to Palpatine's underestimation of the "Light" side of the Force, Luke's resolve, and the good left inside of Anakin.
    • It's also been heavily implied in Expanded Universe works such as Dark Empire and the Thrawn Trilogy that Palpatine's heavy use of the Dark Side was causing him to age prematurely and just decay in general. This may have affected his reasoning towards the end, causing him to make rash decisions instead of planning things out carefully as he did in the prequel trilogy.
    • When Palpatine is engaged in the act of torturting his enemy to death, he's as blissfully detached as a man shooting up. That's how dangerously sadistic that fucker is. Probably Vader could have walked up behind him banging cymbals and it wouldn't have distracted him. Also, Palpatine may not have much of a problem with Vader eventually killing him (it appears to be a longstanding tradition with those weirdos) but he doesn't expect him to betray and destroy the Sith order itself in doing so, defeating the purpose.
  • In Return of the Jedi, why didn't that Empire clear the trees for a radius around the shield generator? It would make detecting and defeating enemies much easier. Since anyone who's on Endor knows about the Death Star (and most likely its shield), there would be no point in trying to hide it. A 100-meter long clearing around the generator would have saved the Empire's bacon, as they could easily have seen and shot the Rebels before they could ever get close.
    • They're operating under the orders of an emperor "whose overconfidence is his weakness". He believes it's already "quite safe from their pathetic band" since "an entire legion of his best troops surrounds it".
      • So what, did he explicitely ordered them NOT to clear the area? Because otherwise any sensible officer charged with security of the installation should've done it on his own accord. NTITOI, they should've done it back when they were building the thing, if only for convinience of the construction vehicles!
      • No, he didn't explicitly tell them not to; he just didn't bother telling them to do it. He would have thought it an unnecessary waste of effort, if the idea even occurred to him at all. As for the construction, we don't even know how it works in this super-advanced society. I imagine they've gone far beyond our own "clear the area far beyond the radius of the building itself, get huge, noisy, bulky vehicles in, take a long time to build things up from scratch from the ground up" techniques.
  • In Return of the Jedi, didn't the Rebels think that a shuttle arriving a top-secret location supposedly holding cargo, then never going where it was supposed to and completely and mysteriously disappearing might be a wee bit suspicious? Also, that the Empire might have ways of tracking a shuttle (like future radar analogues) and might consider investigating said mysterious shuttle?
    • The plan was to bomb the place and get out. By the time the Empire smelled something fishy, they should've been blown up.
      • They gave the bomb team several days before the actual Rebel fleet arrived more than enough time for the Empire to investigate a security breach in a top secret area. We, as the viewers, know that Palpatine already knew and was prepared. But the Rebel leaders didn't. From their point of view, how could they imagine that the Empire wouldn't investigate the mysterious shuttle and up security and issue a general alert? The shuttle landed a considerable distance from the bunker, so it's not like they could get in and blow it up before the Empire investigated such an important potential security breach.
      • Someone is unfamiliar with military logistics and beauracracy. Its a single shuttlecraft making a routine delivery and transmitting a routine code and clearance. The military in Real Life does not track every single vehicle coming and going that closely, and keep in mind, the only ones who encounter the shuttle are the Executor, which is essentially on guard duty. As far as guards are generally concerned - especially on a ship as big as the Executor - once a transport has given its clearance, its out of their hands. Tracking one small shuttle is entirely beneath them. They're generally not going to keep track of it, and assume that if there's a problem, the people the shuttle is delivering its stuff to will call them. Since no one is expecting this shuttle period, that call's never going to come in. And also, this is a single shuttle going missing in the same system that the Death Star is being built in. Y'know, the planet-sized explodo-moon. The sheer amount of traffic coming and going likely means that tracking all of the inbound and outbound flights is going to be a complete niightmare for the logistics officers. One shuttle passing through their perimeter that flashes its code just doesn't matter.
      • For starters, this is supposed to be a top-secret project. Also, the Emperor is there, and there would consequently be a huge beefing up of security. Besides, only a small landing pad (not all that much larger than Vader's shuttle) is actually seen on Endor proper. So most of the traffic would not be going there. A shuttle not going anywhere near where it is supposed to be and vanishing mysteriously right near a top-secret project is very suspicious.
      • For starters, this is supposed to be a top-secret project.' Yeah, and they're building a fucking planet. That's going to require a shitton of resources, which is going to require a shitton of transports, which is going to require a shitton of incoming and outgoing flights. It doesn't matter how top secret it is, when you're building a planet its going to require a massive logistics effort, during which one small transport is going to be of minor concern.
      • A shuttle not going anywhere near where it is supposed to be and vanishing mysteriously right near a top-secret project is very suspicious. Again, if the shield complex on Endor is not expecting an incoming transport, they're not going to asking about one that doesn't show up in the first place. Once the shuttle has given its credentials, its literally out of the Executor's area of responsibility; in Real Life, guards generally only check with the destination of an incoming transport and get clearance for it when its credentials don't check out or there's an inconsistency. And the crew of the Executor is not going to be asking for confirmation from every single transport's destination when you've got thousands of transports coming and going while constructing the giant killer laser moon.
  • If the Emperor leaked the code to the Rebels in Return of the Jedi why didn't he just send them a fake code that comes up on Imperial databanks as You know that Rebel sabotage team we're expecting? Guess who. Go tell Lord Vader and/or the highest ranking officer you can find. Failure to do so immediately will result in very nasty things happening to you. Now scram.? The objective was to ensure that the team accomplished nothing. Being peeled apart by Darth Vader and 500 Stormtroopers is a lotta nothing.
    • They didn't need to use a fake code because both Vader could sense Luke's presence on the shuttle. He allowed the shuttle to pass through because they were fully expecting an attack on the shield bunker and had a full legion of troops waiting.
      • OK, but that still doesn't answer the question of why they let them land on Endor rather than just nabbing them with the tractor beam on the Executor while they were still in space.
      • I got the idea that Vader was derailing the original plan for his own purposes. Palpatine dispatched the 501st as a precaution.
    • In order to lure the rest of the Rebels there, the plan had to look like it was working. For all the Emperor knows, the strike team is in contact with the rest of the Rebels and waiting on their signal, or at least is watching to make sure they make it to the planet. Capture it right away, and the rest of the Rebels go, "Well, shit, that didn't work, we need another plan," and don't show up for the finely crafted trap.
    • If the Emperor leaked the code Ah-ah. WRONG. The Emperor didn't leak the code. This was never said or even really hinted at. In fact, the Rebels were using a perfectly legitmate code; older, but otherwise perfectly fine.

  • Did anyone ever realize how every human involved in the plot to hide the Skywalker children died on the same day? The Organa family, the Lars family, Captain Antilles, Obi-Wan Kenobi,... Those odds are crazy ridiculous.
    • Never tell me the odds!
    • Where's the proof that the Lars's and Organas got it on the same day, for all we know several days pass between when the Falcon launches and when Alderaan gets blown up, and in fact it may be a day or two between the offing of the Lars's and Luke's reaching Mos Eisley.
    • There is explicitly at least one day between the deaths of Captain Antilles and the Lars family - Luke decides to wait until morning after R2 runs away. It seems quite likely that a few days passed between the droids landing on the planet and being sold as well. Also, Yoda was involved in hiding them and he survived for a few years after this.
  • One thing that's always bugged me in Star Wars is that the "Stun Gun" used on Leia in ANH is never used again.
    • ....why would they use it? They're shooting to kill (or at least pretending to shoot to kill) in every other scene in the rest of the series.
    • "Stun Gun?" it wasn't a different blaster, it was the same one on a different setting.
    • If I recall correctly, it was mentioned again. When the Falcon was escaping at the the end of Empire, Vader ordered the boarding party to have their weapons set for stun.
  • So I was reading Darths and Droids and learn that in the deleted scenes from episode II, Padme has a living mother and sister on Naboo. It didn't click as a problem for me until I reconsidered the end of Revenge of the Sith, in which Yoda and Obi-Wan debate what to do with Anakin's children. Yoda insists that at least one be with their family...and then sends baby Luke off to live with Owen Lars, his father's step-brother. Step-brother...not a blood relation, someone who met Anakin once, who had no family ties to Luke at all. Meanwhile, Sola Naberrie, the twins' aunt, was alive and well, living on Naboo.
    • You think people wouldn't have noticed that Padme's sister got a child to take care of immediately after her death? You don't think that wouldn't have been suspicious at all? Palpatine's home planet is Naboo, for crying out loud. Tatooine is way off the beaten track, and is guaranteed to be the one place that Vader wouldn't ever return to, and it's safer for Leia to be adopted by someone who has no link whatsoever to Padme.
      • But he did have a link to Padme. He was one of a number of Senators (including Mon Mothma, future leader of the Rebellion) who shared political philosophies, who petitioned Palpatine to resign as Chancellor, or at least surrender his emergency powers. A political enemy of the new Emporer would almost certainly be a candidate for surveillance, and when he and his wife, who had been known to have had difficulty conceiving a child, show up with a new infant right after Padme dies...Next to that, how does the non-political aunt of the children rate on the noticeability scale, especially considering that she already had two children of her own?
      • "You think people wouldn't have noticed that Padme's sister got a child to take care of immediately after her death? " Seeing as apparently no one noticed a baby called Luke Skywalker being raised openly as the son of Anakin Skywalker, by his father's stepbrother, in or very near his father's home town, a few miles away from a man with the impenetrably cunning pseudonym of Ben Kenobi, I'm going to say no.
      • Of course nobody noticed. Tatooine is in the ass end of nowhere. The Emperor has no interest in the place. It's much less suspicious than the mother's sister getting a newborn immediately after Padme's death. That's the sort of thing that gets gossiped about! Not to mention that the influential Senator won't be publically advertising the fact that he's got a kid back on his home planet. He can easily fudge the numbers so it seems like he only got the kid some time after Padme's death, not to mention that there's no proven link between him and the Jedi which might concievably have got him the child.
      • If such a public figure as a head of state can "easily fudge the numbers", why can't the kids' aunt, who has the advantage of far more privacy? Either the Emperor, or more importantly Vader, suspects there might be surviving kids out there or he doesn't. If he does, it's stupid not to just at least have someone check the records relating to Skywalkers and Kenobis, or send someone to scare up the locals in case there's a lead. If he doesn't suspect, and he's off doing evil space dictator things and primarily based on Coruscant, then how soon is the question of how many kids Padme's sister has going to arise? He's probably never met her or thought about her. As she's not a public figure, and the Star Wars verse doesn't seem to have our kind of life-through-a-lens media circuses or the internet anyway, it's very unlikely gossip about her would have much currency beyond her immediate circle, and even that could probably be tamped down or averted altogether by a judicial move to say a more remote area before anyone admits to Leia's existence. And she could always have said she just didn't "show" until really late in the pregnancy, it's not that unusual.
      • You know, just because she's a blood relation doesn't mean she would necessarily be a good caretaker. Anyway, a senator would more easily be able to protect the child, while Random Sister J wouldn't. Also, convincing her that it was actually Padme's child, despite the fact that Padme didn't tell anybody besides the father about her pregnancy, would have been hard. She would have asked too many questions, and she would have no inclination to trust the Jedi whom everybody are now calling traitors. It's also much more convenient to keep the child closer to somebody like Bail, who has links to the Jedi. Now, you might say that Owen and Beru are just as unlikely to cooperate, but they live on the fringes of space and would be slightly used to shady activities, and they have a closer relationship to the father, if only because Owen liked his stepmother, and Obi-Wan can actually keep a watch on the kid.
      • To take your points in order; just because Owen Lars is quasi-related to Anakin Skywalker doesn't mean that he and Beru would necessarily be good caretakers. Sola at least has whatever benefit of the doubt comes from already having two children who, later evidence reveals, turned out pretty okay. Second, do you mean to suggest that starship computers can count the midi-chlorians in a blood sample, as did Padme's ship in Episode One, but no other bit of machinery in the galaxy can do a simple genetics scan? Proving the ancestry of the children ought to be child's play. Thirdly, regarding the convenience of fostering Leia to Bail Organa...convenience is no substitute for failing to do the right thing on behalf of two children. The ultimate point is that Yoda said that at least one child should be with his or her family, and then proceeded to disregard the twins' aunt and grandmother.
      • They probably could do a genetic test, if they had a sample of Anakin's DNA. As it is he probably isn't available for a paternity test and has no other living relatives.
      • You don't need Anakin's DNA. The point is to prove the kid is a nephew/grandchild of Padme's sister/mother. A DNA sample from either and a DNA sample from the kid are sufficient for that purpose.
      • Organa was the one who offered to take Leia and he mentioned that he and his wife were planning to adopt a baby girl. If their difficulties concieving were public then it's not unreasonable to assume that their adoption plans were as well.
      • Sending any of the children to Naboo is foolish for an even simpler reason: it happens to be the Emperor's home planet. There is a probability that he will return there from time to time. And while they couldn't know this at the time they made their decision: he does. Often. It becomes a major Imperial occupied planet and a favored vacation spot of Palpatine. Comparing Naboo to Tatooine, Tatooine makes more sense, it is too far removed to be of any note to the Empire and even if Anakin is from there, he is less likely to return there than Palpatine is to Naboo
      • Why does she have to stay on Naboo?
      • Pretty sure its been mentioned in the Expanded Universe that Vader can't return to Tatooine- it gets his heart racing too much for his life-support system to handle- he went there once, and not only did he have to leave immediately, but he had to see a medical professional too. Since Vader can't go, and Emperor is way too busy to go, its the perfect place to hide a force user from the Sith.
      • "Here are the progeny from the secret marriage that your sister has never confided in you about. I'm sure that you will take them in discreetly and without raising undue fuss with the proper authorities despite the fact that your sister is dead under mysterious circumstances and her good friend and former Naboo Senator now Emperor Palpatine could so easily clear it up. Also, they might be the hope of the galaxy. We might need them later! Bye! We can't stay though, since this is totally the Emperor's home planet." Yeah, that's going to be a good idea.
      • Wait, so Vader can never get too agitated? So what happens when he is figthing or something?
      • I'm actually convinced that Vader knew perfectly well all along that Luke was his son and where he was. It's not like they did a good job of hiding him. This seems pretty much confirmed by Vader's big reveal in ESB. I assume he was waiting to see if Luke would grow up and become strong enough to challenge the Emperor. He only had to acknowledge that Luke is his son once the Emperor himself heard about it.
      • Expanded Universe works state that Vader didn't know who Luke was before he blew up the Death Star, and learned his name while trying to find him in between the first and second movies. Presumably he put two and two together, which is why he doesn't act too surprised when Palpatine tells him about Luke in Empire.
      • Why has no one brought up the fact that Vader thought his wife died before she gave birth? This is why it was easier for the families to hide the babies' true identities. In the case of the Organas, as has been previously stated, they were known to have been trying to adopt a child and so they simply falsify documents showing that they adopted her from some Alderaanian orphanage. And has also been stated Vader has no interest in going to Tatooine and so it was a great hiding place.
  • Anyone tell me why the jedi in AOTC simply did not just use the force? There were apparently thousands of them on one side of the arena, while the droids attacked from the other side. It seems much easier to get the jedi lined up, and to use the force, perhaps force push. That way no jedi would die, the droids would all be force pushed into the wall behind, and would therefore block the entrances where they entered. The sheer power of thousands of jedi using the force would crush the droids, and even the other jedi could move out and hack the droids to pieces. It just seemed to me that the jedi took the route of defeating the droids so that as many jedi as possible would end up in body bags. Mace Windu was seen in the clone wars cartoon to take out a droid army by himself. Why didn't the jedi just do that?
    • First of all, the cartoon exaggerates things. A lot. As powerful as the Jedi are, I have a hard time imagining them capable of taking out an army of that size alone. Secondly, use of the Force requires concentration. If you're right in the heat of battle, why waste time trying to concentrate on a Force push with enmies on all sides, when a lightsabre can take them out just as easily and protect you from laser fire? Finally, at this time in the Star Wars universe, there hadn't been any major enemies for the Jedi to fight en massé for quite some time. They were simply out of practice.
    • "Thousands?" Are we watching the same movie here, because there were less than a hundred of them in that battle. Also, the droids were coming from every direction in the arena, as were the Jedi, and it very quickly devolved into an unstructured melee.
      • Actually, it was 200, give or take a dozen or so.
  • Did anyone else's jaw hit the floor in Invincible when Jaina Solo gets information out of the Galactic Alliance Guard soldier she had taken prisoner BY THREATENING TO TORTURE HER WITH THE FORCE? I couldn't believe that they had the "hero" do this in a series that was full of Anvilicious "torture is always wrong" moments. As Jaina herself puts it: "There are a lot of ways a Jedi can hurt you - most of them so bad that you can't even scream." Yes, the girl was under duress but wow. Maybe Jacen won't be the last Solo to turn to the Dark Side...
    • Threatening to use torture != using torture in the first place.
      • Jaina's the spawn of Mr Shoots First himself. She trained under Boba Fett in order to take down her brother. One would think fan would squee with delight about the fact she wasn't playing around and was going to fight the big bad using the big bad's rules. Heck, after Sacrifice, untold legions wanted to torture the author.
      • Actually, threatening to torture is a form of torture. Link 1 Definition
      "to give mental anguish to" and "cause of mental agony or worry"
  • Ok, so Luke goes to train with Yoda while Han and Leia are on the run from the Empire... so how long are Han and Leia on the run for? Days? Weeks? Months? For any of these answers it doesn't make any sense for Luke to become so honed while training with Yoda, considering young potential Jedi are trained from such an early age.
    • He's already been trained by Obi-Wan, and in the years between the two movies he's clearly advanced enough to manipulate objects training by himself. Yoda simply provides him with some direction, and its worth pointing out that Luke abandons his training long before he should.
    • Months likely, I mean, the falcon had no hyperdrive (why they couldn't try to repair it after the Star Destroyer vanished is beyond me), so they had to go Bespin the long way (although this raises the question of just how close star systems are in the movie, as that sort of thing shouldn't take less than decades)
      • A) The Falcon has a very slow backup hyperdrive. B) if they don't have the parts, they can't fix the hyperdrive. That's a very basic rule of mechanical repair.
      • Okay, A makes sense, but B, how have they 'lost' parts of an internal system between exitting the asteroid, and grappling the Star Destroyer?
      • They didn't, they didn't have them to begin with, at least not the parts needed. When you consider how often the Falcon's hyperdrive breaks down and how customized it is it's not surprising that the parts needed to fix a hyperdrive malfunction might not always be aboard. If it happened to the queen's personal transport vehicle it can easily happen to an ancient heavily modified smuggler ship.
    • The whole thing approximates the same rushed, intense, yet complete atmosphere as a military basic training, so shall we say...I don't know, six weeks or so?
  • So if Luke turned off his targeting computer, how did the proton torpedoes know when to do their 90 degree turn? Were they preprogrammed to follow the route down into the core, so all the pilots had to do was fire at the proper moment and then let the torps do all the maneuvering by themselves?
    • He guided them with the Force. I thought that was the whole point.
      • You're missing the point. Like, how? Did he use the Force to shove them in physically or did he alter their programming on the fly? Somebody explain this to me.
      • Yes, you can move stuff with the force
      • At that point in the series Luke could barely pull his pants up with the Force. He probably couldn't guide torpedos with it, and fly his ship at the same time.
      • It could have been instinctive; he is, after all, the son of The Chosen One. Once he knew subconsciously he'd be able to do things like this, he could have
      • Plus he had ben to guide him, so control wouldn't have been much of an issue.
    • The targeting computer was to get through the jamming. Its likely the torpedoes were preprogrammed to home in on the largest power source they could, but they needed to be guided to the exhaust vent itself through the massive jamming field around the Death Star itself. The instrumentation on the targeting computers on the fighters couldn't get through said jamming fields, which was why they were missing. Once Luke blind-fired the torpedoes and guided them at their target with the Force, the dropped into the exhaust vent.
      • What surprises me is that when the X-Wings got close enough, their targeting equipment didn't simply "burn through" the jamming? In real life, if a fighter gets close enough to a jamming source - for example, another fighter with ECM capabilities - then their radar starts to penetrate ("burn through") the jamming and can lock on to the target. On a similar note, just as modern missiles have a HOJ mode ("Home On Jam[ming]", which does exactly what it says on the tin) why don't proton torpedo seekers have a similar HOJ function? Since this is in a rather technologically advanced society, I'd bet even fairly basic torpedoes would have a rudimentary HOJ mode. The only way I could see them reasonably excusing this is if it was a torpedo that requires the launch platform to illuminate the target for them and then the torpedo tracks the target in the terminal phase of flight, but they were trying to be reasonably stealthy. The analogue in the real world would be SARH (Semi-Active Radar Homing).
      • First, to deal with the issue of "burning through" the jamming. The X-Wings are pitting their sensors against the jamming capabilities of a one hundred and twenty-kilometer-wide space station that can literally destroy planets. The X-Wings are just a bit outclassed. Secondly, HOJ only works if you're targeting the jamming device. In this case, the jamming device was the entire Death Star. HOJ would simply have the torpedoes plow into the Death Star's surface, doing absolutely nothing.
      • Can someone explain to me why the targetting computer can cut through the jamming while normal sensors can't?
      • The same way your eyes can see an object even when radar jamming is making it impossible to see it with a radar.
      • The targetting computer is an instrument, same as the sensors.
      • And? A simple laser designator would work just fine and operate on the same principle as human eyes.
      • Or even better, a camera with basic pattern recognition software. They have futuretech out the ass, don't tell me thay can't rig up something that simple when they've already got droids who navigate visually.
    • My take on it was that the torpedoes were guided to a degree ("lock onto the big glowy heat source"), but not well enough to avoid the walls unless carefully aimed. After all, the Rebellion are running on a "beg, borrow, steal" economy, so they probably wouldn't have access to anything better-guided. Luke's connection with the Force instinctively told him when to fire after he let go of a mechanical crutch like the targeting computer, just like how he got better at dealing with the remote with the blast shield down - trusting the Force rather than a computer.
    • This fails to explain 'why' they had to run the trench anyway, why not dive-bomb the damned hole?
      • Because every single gun on the Death Star would have had a clear shot at them. This is answered in detail further down the page.
    • The torpedoes likely have the mechanisms and programs to do the hard turn they need, but they need the information from the targetting computer to be able to use them to get through. What Luke did was provide that guidance himself, using the force.

  • Okay, we all know that originally GL shot a human to stand in for Jabba in Ep4, but cut the scene. My original theory was that Lucas shot this scene, didn't like it, so he wrote and shot the Greedo scene later to cover the same plot points (dumping cargo, bounty on your head, etc.) That would also explain the reuse of Han's line about being boarded — "Do you think I have a choice?" in the Greedo scene (as he unsnaps his holster.) Thus my original conclusion was that if GL really wanted the "new" Jabba scene in the "new" Star Wars, he should have cut the Greedo scene, as having both was redundant. And then I rewatched the original. ( footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3642rswxQsw ) And noted that "Jabba" says "Why did you have to fry poor Greedo like that?" And noted Han said "...come see me yourself. Don't send one of your twerps." And thus GL had decided to use both scenes, all along, redundancy be damned. And therefore, I now think GL can't write dialogue for bantha poodoo.
    • What's your point? That scene establishes why Jabba let Han go without sending another bounty hunter after him.
    • You're correct - when Lucas cut the Jabba scene, he reshot extra material to be inserted into the middle of the Greedo scene. And for some reason he included both scenes, in full, in the Special Editions.
    • Plus, wasn't Han shooting Greedo a major establishing scene for his character? Oh, wait...
  • Re: "Your father wanted you to have this, when you were old enough... If, of course, he knew you had existed and I hadn't just chopped his legs off. But I swiped it from what I thought was his burned corpse, so um, here."
Maybe it should have been "Your father would have wanted you to have this..."
  • Yeah, because we all know Obi-wan, who is actually more or less actively deceiving Luke about how his father died, is going to tell him exactly what his father said regarding the lightsaber. Instead of, you know, making something up.
    • Good point though - why does Obi-wan lie so often, about things there no reason to lie about? Not that I remotely get why he couldn't either have just told Luke the truth or if he really thought that would be too demoralising - ha! just said "Your father died in the war. Bad things happen in war. It certainly had nothing personally to do with Darth Vader! Who is a very bad guy, but hey - don't get into a big Dark Side-Inducing rage about him!" But anyway, assuming that makes sense "from a certain point of view," why lie when "This was your father's - you should have it, it's what he would have wanted." would be perfectly true?
    • I always figured that when Obi-Wan told Luke that Darth Vader destroyed his father, it was from a figurative stand. As in Darth Vader the Sith personality overrode all the good that Anakin has done.
    • Really? I always figured that Obi-Wan was just ashamed at having helped create one the most hated monsters ever to exist. I mean, he' a jedi, not a priest. Who says he can't lie if he wants?
    • Yes, I know that's how he defends it, but it's just not good enough, dammit. For one thing he gave Luke no indication that he was speaking metaphorically, he knew perfectly well that what he said would be taken to be straightforward fact. And said "Betrayed and murdered" which is even less likely to be read as figurative by an uninformed hearer than "destroyed". If when asked to explain the facts, you say something that might, at a stretch, be seen as metaphorically compatible with the facts by someone who already knows them, but which you know cannot possibly have any effect other than to mislead someone who does not, then you're lying. Like if when asked for directions to the post office, which is on the left, you say "It's on the right," but justify yourself that this is true, so long as you keep going in a straight line all the way around the world." It's still obviously a lie, because you knowingly gave him a false view of the factual situation. I know, I know, I'm hardly the first to have a problem with this. Obi-Wan's just such an amazing git.
    • It makes it more meaningful if he indicates that his father would have wanted him to have it, instead of just giving it to Luke.
    • It's surely still fairly meaningful to receive a legacy from your dead father even without explicit confirmation that he willed this to happen, and in any case, why does Obi-Wan want the situation to be more emotive than it already is? Won't that only fuel grief, resentment and hate, and lead to the Dark Side?
    • Yeah, because telling a kid his dead father who he never knew in the first place wants him to have this lightsaber is going to be the thing that pushes him over to the dark side. I mean, Luke is a wuss at that point, but seriously.
    • On its own, of course it wouldn't. But it's just one extra, entirely unnecessary lying detail to make the lying story of Luke's lovely heroic dead dad whom that bastard Darth Vader murdered even more inflammatory to him than it already is.
    • Obi-Wan is clearly not thinking purely objectively and rationally here. Anakin's fall is the big traumatic incident that his whole later emotional life has revolved around. It's probably not really * possible* for Obi-Wan to try to downplay either Anakin's heroic life or Vader's horrible evil with a straight face. In trying to come up with a way to talk to Luke to motivate him to live a good life, the life of Anakin Skywalker is the only story he can find that moves him; in trying to convince Luke how horrible and awful the Dark Side is, the metaphorical "murder" of Anakin by the Vader personality is even more so the one example that dominates all his thoughts.
    • And there's also a practical reason for the Vader-as-Anakin's-murderer story — if it's established from the beginning that Vader "killed" Anakin it predisposes Luke to see Vader as an entity of pure evil who needs to be killed to stop the terror, * not* as his poor long-lost father whom he needs to redeem. Remember that Ben sees his own greatest failure as failing to recognize how far gone Anakin was, failing to overcome his deep personal attachment to Anakin ("attachment" being verboten for the Old Jedi) and failing to kill him once and for all when he had the chance. Ben thinks that an uncompromising and unflinching attitude toward Anakin's fall into total depravity is the only way to defeat him.
    • Ben and Yoda are, of course, both wrong about this. There * is* a fine line between an uncompromising, dispassionate antipathy toward evil and crossing over into contempt and hatred for evil people, which is itself an evil line of thought that leads to the Dark Side. The Old Jedi were foolish about this and refused to recognize this as an error in their own thinking; the Sith, meanwhile, knew all about this and had formulated their entire strategy for corrupting and destroying the Jedi on it. Palpatine and Vader * counted on* the idea that Ben and Yoda would've tried to poison Luke against his father and turn Luke into a slayer of his own kin; it was Luke's unwillingness to do this, his "weakness", his inability to become a Knight Templar, that was his real strength.
    • That's one of the best "Old Jedi vs New Jedi" summaries I've ever read.
    • Alternatively, Obi-Wan simply has learned from the mistakes of the old Jedi and the mistakes of Anakin, and he's trying to bring Luke up differently. With Anakin, he was extremely forthcoming, very blatant about things like wanting him to spy on Palpatine when he could've just said "So, has the chancellor done anything WEIRD lately?" every now and then, to say nothing of his training, where he thought being honest with Anakin ("[You're a match for Yoda] only in your mind, my very young apprentice") to the point of downright demoralizing him was the best way to do it. Now, just look at the scene in RotJ where he explains that what he said "Was true...from a certain point of view." Luke's response is to stare at him incredulously, obviously understanding the point, but not understanding how that makes it okay. Compare with Episode III where this is clearly referenced, "From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" And earlier, when Obi-Wan says "Only a Sith deals in absolutes," possibly the biggest logical fallacy spoken in the series. Obi-Wan has learned from all of these things, and what he's learned is that he can't just say "This is how it is" and expect someone, Luke or otherwise, to believe you. Call Obi-Wan's actions machinations or a dirty scheme if that's what it feels like, but in the end, he screwed up with Anakin, and succeeded with Luke.
    • A simpler idea along the same lines as the above: Obi-Wan is teaching Luke the power of differing points of view. A certain point of view let Anakin legitimately see the Jedi as evil and Palpatine as good, in Anakin's own words. Luke is certainly much less likely to be swayed by semantics and other wordplay after this, and will have learned to look at the world objectively instead of being satisfied with what he sees in front of him at any given time.
    • This is probably right. People tend to forget what Obi-Wan says after that "certain point of view" line:
      Ben: Your father was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true ... from a certain point of view.
      Luke: A certain point of view?
      Ben: Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view. Anakin was a good friend.
    • All this ignores, of course, the obvious non-Fan Wank out-of-character fact that the line was written that way because George Lucas didn't initially know that Vader was Luke's father; that was a plot point he tacked on later, just like Leia being Luke's sister.
    • Getting back to the original topic, maybe what happened was that Padme, while being transported to Polis Massa, mentioned to Obi-Wan upon seeing Anakin's lightsaber that he'd mentioned wanting to pass it on to his eventual child (albeit with difficulty, between breaths, in a slight daze, etc.). Wait, did she realize what Obi-Wan had done to Vader?
    • Or maybe we're overlooking one other teeny tiny detail: that Obi-Wan, having watched over Luke and his foster parents for decades, might've sensed Owen's and Beru's deaths, and given Luke the light saber to prepare him for the discovery that the only parents he's ever known have been tortured and murdered by the Empire. Luke was filled with grief when he found their bodies: roiling with anger over their deaths, with guilt for not having been there to defend them, and with helpless shame that it wouldn't have made a difference if he had. All of these are also potential paths to the Dark Side. Giving him the saber in a way that forges a connection to the original, pre-Vader Anakin is Ben's way of building Luke a family tie that can survive the horror of finding of his aunt's and uncle's bodies, thus pulling him back from despair over losing the only parents he actually did know, and loved.
  • Just think about it, folks: what is Obi Wan supposed to say? "Luke, I plucked this off your father's charbroiled corpse because I took him for a dead man after I horrendously mutilated him and left him for dead on the edge of a volcano on a horrible infernal planet that may as well be hell itself, as he screamed 'I HATE YOU!!!'" Yeah, that's sure to go over well with the guy you're trying to recruit to the war effort, ain't it? In all fairness Obi Wan didn't have to say anything about the saber's origins at all, so it was an unnecessary lie, but when he told Luke that Vader betrayed and murdered his father, despite this being obviously intentionally chosen careful wording he was only echoing what Yoda had told him at the time: "The young boy you trained, gone he is, consumed by Darth Vader."

  • Why do Sith Masters encourage their students to try and kill them if they become weak? If you're really evil, the first thing you do is change the fucking rules so that the apprentice doesn't kill off the master. I mean, she'll probably turn on you eventually, but do you really want to encourage that sort of behavior? "Go ahead. Kill me. I want you to try!" If you're amoral, you shouldn't really have any problems changing the system so it benefits you and screws your underlings.
    • Uh, do you honestly think that the Sith won't be planning to overthrow their leaders anyway? Sith underlings will be plotting to overthrow their masters without it being institutionalized, and having it be a part of Sith doctrine and belief is going to ensure that the Master won't get complacent if he knows his underlings will be looking to slide a lightsaber into his back.
    • It would be really hard to try and indoctrinate students in a value system of 'The stronger take whatever they want from the weaker, and that's the natural order of the universe!' while simultaneously trying to sell them on 'You must never try to overthrow your master, even if you have become stronger than he!'. Catching you out on blatant hypocrisy like that tends to make your students more cynical and disrespectful of your authority than they already might have been.
    • The Sith are as much a religious ideology as the Jedi, with the same weaknesses of dogma and tradition; this stuff has been explored by the EU countless times. KotOR 2, for instance, has some pretty clear pronouncements by Kreia that despite their posturing neither the Jedi nor the Sith have some perfect philosophy that guarantees they'll win every time.
    • There is a long tradition in Star Wars of different flavors of evil; the outright simplistic Dark Side ideology of the Sith is often contrasted with the more vanilla, more human, more flexible kinds of evil we see from villains like Admiral Thrawn, Prince Xizor or Jabba the Hutt. This is part of it — Jabba the Hutt doesn't raise up apprentices to try to betray him because unlike Palpatine he doesn't aspire to become some ultimate master of ultimate evil and ultimate power through the evolutionary process of constant battle, he just wants to boss people around and take their stuff.
      • Describing Thrawn, Xizor, and Jabba the Hutt as exemplifying a more human kind of evil, when none of the three are human and it's arguable whether or not one of them (Thrawn) is evil in the first place is questionable.
      • Different definition of "human." (Including, in Thrawn's case, moral ambiguity.)
      • Why is Borsk Fey'lya not mentioned in the above list?
    • Look at each Sith Lord individually, Palpatine in particular, and you'll see they do bend or outright break the rules, this one included, for their own benefit. Darth Vader lost much of his effectiveness after losing all four limbs. Why did Palpatine keep him around instead of shocking his helmet off and finding another highly Force-sensitive apprentice? Because Vader is now effective against Palpatine's enemies, but completely ineffective against Palpatine until push really came to shove in the end. The list of Sith Lords who had apprentices that lasted as long as Vader without betrayal in either direction is probably short, if such a list even exists. Darth Maul, for that matter, was a very weak Force-sensitive, with enough power to learn lightsaber combat, basic telekinesis, and not much else, if anything at all. Lethal to many, not to Palpatine.
      • And Palpatine's fostering of deliberately weakened apprentices was a very large contributing factor as to why he was the last Sith Lord. The rules would seem to have a point.
      • Vader was also kept around because Palpatine enjoyed rubbing his victory in the face of the Universe. He left the burning wreckage of the Jedi Temple sitting around for ages, after all. The novelisation of ROTS described Vader's armour as basically a display chest. Palpatine had just turned The Chosen One into his own personal thug, and he wanted to keep a trophy.
    • It is related to the idea of an entire Sith Order related to the Jedi Order. The Sith are all about acquiring power, so no one could take leadership if everyone is lusting after power. The Sith died from their own ambition just as much as from fighting the Jedi. The rule of 2 means that one person trains another, and the "graduation" is to kill the master. It keeps the principle but keeps them much more organized.
    • And also, Sith Lords KNOW they will eventually grow old or weak, this system means that their apprentice is good enough to take up their mantle and spread corruption and pain throughout the Galaxy, and since it IS expected nobody will mock you in the history books for getting killed by your apprentice.
    • This troper figures that commiting acts of evil yourself is pretty evil, but training an apprentice up to the point where they actually betray you is sort of the Sith equivalent of becoming one with the Force- you're not just kicking the dog, you've created a self replicating dog-kicking machine. One is evil, the other is EEEEEEEVIIIILLL.

  • What do stormtroopers even have armor for? It obviously doesn't do anything.
    • Like? Examples of things stormtrooper armor doesn't defend against? Blasters do penetrate armor, but armor-piercing assault rifle rounds can penetrate most modern body armors, yet any modern military equips its armies with them. The only other things used against stormtroopers are Ewok arrows, which don't penetrate the carapace, and rocks and bolas, which don't show any more effect than knocking the stormtroopers off their feet, where the Ewoks close to melee and can attack between the gaps in the armor plating.
      • Um, Leia's 'pistol' is enough to take out a couple of troopers at Endor, so in a universe where blasters are the standard weapon, having armour that doesn't protect against them seems kind of stupid.
      • First rule of weapons development: Weapons will 'always be more powerful than the armor that defends against them. Also, as has been pointed out above, right now we have bullets that can penetrate all but the heaviest of body armors. Yet we still equip our troops with said armor. Body armor generally defends best against shrapnel and debris and glancing hits, and body armor generally offers a trade-off between protection and mobility. The stormtroopers probably could arm themselves with armor that would block any incoming blaster fire, but they'd likely end up being barely mobile walking slabs of white that can't go anywhere.
    • Take another look at the Cloud City escape. The blasters blow big holes in the walls. If I got hit with that kind of firepower, I'd sure be happy to only be knocked down and suffer blunt trauma.
      • Heck, Han's pistol is firing bolts that blow holes in walls comparable to the 40mm grenades of a Mark 19. These are walls designed to withstand the backwash of spaceship engines.
      • Whether intentional or not, it has been pointed out that in the Tantive IV scene, we only see Stormtroopers fall over if a blaster bolt actually hits them. Rebel soldiers fall over dead if a blaster bolt hits a wall or floor next to them. (Understandable, actually, given the huge flash and burst of sparks we see every time a bolt hits. Also understandable that they didn't make this a mechanic in any of the video games.)
      • Further, we see stormtroopers get shot and fall down, without any confirmation that they're dead. In Vader's first appearance in A New Hope, there are even stormtroopers checking on their fallen comrades. It isn't uncommon for someone wearing conventional body armor to be knocked off balance by it, so it seems reasonable to think a direct hit from a blaster would knock someone off their feet. The armor may make the difference between a fatal and survivable blaster injury.
      • In a couple of Michael Stackpole’s X-Wing Novels Corran Horn gets shot, but gets shot after having taken chest/back armour off a fallen Stormtrooper. Both times it is stated that although the armour didn’t stop the blaster bolt that it did absorb a lot of the energy and make the wounds significantly less severe (after bacta healing the red mark left on Corran was half the size of the one left on Gavin).
      • Comparing blaster damage to grenade damage is not really valid, blaster bolts dissipate pretty much all their energy into a target, grenades no more than 50%, and the damage is different, blasters do heat damage, grenades (mk 19s rounds anyway) do concussive damage. You also have to remember that leia took a round to the shoulder in Jedi from about 20 metres away, and kept her arm, so there is no way a standard blaster has anything 'like' the power of a grenade.
      • They still transfer enough energy into a taregt to blow them to pieces and generate enough shrapnel to kill, e.g. Tantive IV boarding, Death Star prison block firefight, etc. Han's tooled-up blaster blows torso-sized chunks out of walls in Mos Eisley, which are built to withstand the backwash of starship engines. That's an insane amount of firepower for a pistol. And WRT Leia taking a wound at Endor, if you rewatch that scene closely, you can see the bolt hits the wall beside her; she doesn't take a direct hit.
    • Legitimate civilian weapons are by canon much weaker than the military grade and illegal ones carried by just about every character in the movie. As shown in the TIE Fighter series, the Empire does spend a lot of time fighting against groups that do not have military grade hardware, thus giving them a huge advantage.
      • Not enough of an advantage to triumph over a tribe of teddy bears armed with stone-tipped arrows and logs, apparently.
      • A tribe of teddy bears that have the upper body strength to lift rocks their size and chuck them like paperweights, fighting in familiar terrain, with numerical advantage, traps, and prepared ambushes, and who were still losing to the Imperial troops even when they had support from Rebel commandos until they managed to hijack a walker? Those teddy bears?
      • Given the precise positioning of those traps, either those teddy bears have evolved a sense of paranoia to a nigh-unprecedented degree, booby-trapping every square inch of the forest to take ought things the height of Imperial Walkers for no real reason, or moved extremely quickly and did a lot of heavy lifting to set traps in the area allegedly under the control of the Emperor's elite forces. Either way, it doesn't speak well for the prowess of the Imperial military. And by the way, I'd take combat armour and blaster rifles and inferior numbers any day.
      • They didn't notice the traps being set up for the same reason they didn't bother to clear the forest around their secret base. They were arrogant assholes. That was the point. Every square inch of the forest? Did you notice they were leading them to the traps? And of course they were going to try and take down Imperial Walkers; they were used as patrol vehicles. The Ewoks knew what they were going to face long before the commando team arrived. They've obviously been prepared for an assault for a very long time.
      • It's less impressive when you consider that Chewie accounted for at least two of the walkers (one on-screen destruction plus obviously the one he's driving), maybe more. Also, with that much technology, you'd at least expect them to have some sort of thermal scope, which would cut through most camouflage.
      • You want the empire to use a thermal scope to see targets at a distance in a high foliage enviroment? You've been playing too many video games. Infrared is stopped by heavy foliage, stand behind a tree and you can't be seen on the scope. It would do almost nothing that the naked eye couldn't in that enviroment.
      • It'd pick out the like 12-15 degrees difference between half-hidden ewoks and the background environment if nothing was in the way surely (just look for the bits that register as 35+ degrees).
    • ....did you not even read what was just said? Foiliage stops thermal scopes. I can personally attest to this, as I've used them in combat excercises in wooded terrain. They are very hard to use effectively in wooded areas, or really any area with heavy cover. They're better in deserts, mountains, and open fields.
    • Not all shots are direct hits, absorbing enough energy off an indirect hit can save someone's like, even is direct ones are always fatal.
    • Shrapnel and debris are generally much weaker than direct hits, but still potentially fatal. Armor pretty much negates most of either of those unless it is a really direct hit.
      • Shrapnel and debris in a genre which posits energy weapons as the base armament?
      • Uh, yeah? You do know that direct energy transfer tends to result in explosions when enough energy is transferred to a solid object? I mean, it's not like there's dozens and dozens of explosions in the movies, that you can actually see are killing unarmored humans, for example. Just because they're firing energy beams doesn't mean there isn't going to be shrapnel.
      • Yeah, but the shrapnel is going to be small stuff in most cases, enough to scratch, but not much more (you can throw a playing card hard enough to break skin, but that's all it's going to break).
      • Except that we can visually see shrapnel killing people in the movies. Pay attention to the Tantive IV boarding and the cell block firefight on the Death Star. Unarmored rebels and Imperials are killed by blaster bolts that hit and explode off walls around and behind them.
      • Let's not forget other advantages like NBC protection, and limited vacuum combat ability. Also, Star Wars combat has landscape changing levels of shrapnel and debris. Remember Attack Of The Clones, when they shot down a core ship, and the entire battlefield was covered in dust and smoke? Imagine if they weren't wearing their sealed, air-conditioned armour in that environment.
  • Which is more imposing- an entire army of guys wearing vaguely skeleton-faced matching armor, where you can't even tell if they're "human" on the inside, or a bunch of guys in flannel jackets? If the entire universe knows that Stormtroopers = The Empire, then you'd know that when you saw one that you'd better get your stuff together or they're just going to blast you. Some guy in a more regular uniform? How can you even tell he'd be who he says he is? (Albeit, the same goes if some guy just took a dead Stormtroopers armor, but if you figure that the Empire travels only in the Battalions and that the armor can't just be fixed with a little duct tape and caulk, a non-Stormtrooper with that armor would probably be a little on the rare- or dead- side)
    • That didn't seem to stop Han and the gang from blasting some Stormtroopers while they were inside the Death Star and stealing their armor, which had no markings on it whatsoever once they got it on.
    • Considering that they got that armor by leading a pair of Stormtroopers into a close-quarters ambush with a Wookiee and a fucking Jedi Master? Later on in ANH and in TESB, we see that Chewbacca is capable of punching a stormtrooper hard enough that they'll fly into the wall and get KO'ed by the impact even through their armor — and without leaving visible marks on the armor. So Obi-Wan simply has to hold one stormtrooper still with his Force TK while Chewie grabs the other one and pounds his head against the deck plating until he's not moving, then repeat step #1 with victim #2.
    • More importantly, why the hell does the Empire give their troopers helmets that severely limit their vision? Luke comments on it in Episode IV, and a genuine Stormtrooper bitches about it in Jedi Outcast.
      • Luke is too short to be a stormtrooper. The helmet wasn't properly fitted, and it probably doesn't limit their vision too much since clonetroopers and stormtroopers maintain good situational awareness in the films. It's not unlikely that there's a bunch of visual gadgetry in them too, like in Vader's helmet.
    • What do you mean, it doesn't do anything? It gives a + 2 to Reflex defence. Am I the only troper to have read the Saga Edition RPG rulebook?
      • IIRC, Stormtrooper armor is fully protective against explosions (Or at least shrapnel, a grenade to the face probably still a kill), and Slug rounds (IE bullets), yes, Slugs are uncommon, but they have advantages over a blaster bolt (Penetration, Fragmentation, and the fact that they don't auto-cauterize like blaster bolts probably do. Sure, having a chunk vaporized out of your gut sucks, but it sucks just as much if not more to have a bullet through your stomach, and out your back, leaking things you shouldn't be leaking into yourself). Don't ask me why they went with that route, but apparently they did. Also, is does reduce the damage from blaster bolts. Again, having half your torso vaped out sucks harder than say, third-degree burns on your torso. Stormtrooper armor rocks hardcore because it's apparently pretty light, has some decent protective ability, lets be honest, is fully environmentally protected (Including Vacuum-proofed, even if it doesn't have it's own air system, I think), and has loads of handy built-in tech. As for why the Ewoks beat them, Ewoks were using spears, arrows and rocks right? Well, blunt-force trauma still bites even in armor, especially if it wasn't designed for that, and can't arrows and stuff like that go through modern body armor? But you still don't see people using bows on the battlefield. You honsetly think the imperial guys who designed Stormtrooper armor off Clone Phase II armor are going to think, gee, we'll need to make it so really primitive weapons like arrows (if they even know what an arrow is) can't get through, as opposed to just bombing the filthy xenos to hell.
  • Even if Republican credits are no good on Tatooine, why didn't Qui-Gon try to find a moneylender of a species susceptible to the mind trick and "persuade" him/her/it to give him a fair exchange rate on the credits?
    • To be honest, I think Qui-Gon was just going to all the trouble with the pod-race because he just wanted to get Anakin out of Tatooine with his head intact. Also, Jedi can see the future, so he probably knew it would succeed. And on the off-chance it didn't, it wouldn't be too hard to trick themselves onto a bulk-freighter to Coruscant or do what you said.
    • Also, Qui-Gon seems to be big on the whole "Living Force" idea, which basically involves taking things as they come. When the mind trick didn't work, and then he met Anakin, he probably thought "Reckon he'd make a good Jedi. Must be sure to get him off planet with us. I'm sure he'll be a great boon to the Republic and in now way go crazy and kill us all."
    • Reaching a bit, but there's an alternative explanation: he wanted to stay off the Hutts' radar. It's one thing to go looking for a T-14 hyperdrive with one of the smaller ship part dealers, but it's another thing entirely to go asking for conversion of what seems to be a sizeable sum of money into local scrip on a planet that's "controlled by the Hutts". That sort of transaction would attract attention from the guys bankrolling moneychanging activities on Tatooine. And we know Qui-Gon's "2,000 Republic daktaris" is a big amount because Watto doesn't seem to balk that the amount isn't enough, merely that it's not the right kind of cash. And the amount required to buy the T-14 is apparently equal to or slightly less than the winnings of a major podracing event on the Outer Rim.

  • In "A New Hope", why did the Imperials on the Star Destroyer hold their fire when they realized that there were no life forms aboard the escape pod? Didn't they think about any droids that might be on board or that the plans might be on it? And why bother saving one shot? They had already fired thousands! In short, why didn't they just blast the damn escape pod just to be sure and short circuit all three movies and the fall of the Empire?
    • The downside of strangling your subordinates every time they make a wrong decision is that most of them will decide that its safer simply not to make any decisions. Vader's singularly poor (and homicidal) leadership skills guaranteed a lack of initiative and general mediocrity from his crew.
    • Everyone in the Star Wars universe seems to underestimate droids. For that matter, all the droids we see except R2-D2 and C-3PO are pretty stupid. The idea that droids could take an escape pod on their own might not occur to them. Maybe entrusting the plans to a droid was a brilliant piece of lateral thinking by Leia.
      • Uh... "and C-3PO?" Except for being six-million-lingual, C-3PO is as dumb as a sack full of hammers. You'd think he was designed by an eight year old child or something.
      • Specifically R2-D2 seems far more capable of creative thinking than you would expect from a droid. Even C-3PO with all he does over the course of the movie has to be pushed into doing anything beyond his basic function by his human companions. In the Expanded Universe, it is implied that it is standard practice to memory wipe astromech droids every couple of years or so, but Luke won't let that happen to R2, meaning he has developed far more personality than most droids.
      • If you take the Clone Wars series as canonical, Anakin does the same thing. He even gets chewed out by Obi-Wan for it.
      • But even in A New Hope, Artoo unusually rebellious— he runs away after hours, not years, of Luke's ownership.
      • Artoo isn't being rebellious at all there — his last order from Princess Leia was to make contact with Obi-Wan Kenobi as soon as possible, and that's exactly what Artoo is doing. Artoo doesn't actually start to acknowledge Luke as his owner until after he's carried out this order... up until then, only the restraining bolt the Jawas fitted him with is holding him in place.
      • The EU has stated that some higher level droids are programed to self-destruct if they attempt to run away. That's why R2, not C-3PO got it.
      • It is also stated in several works that the droids are usually wiped routinely, to keep them interfacing properly with the standard electronis. It has been noted dozens of times that this caused frustration for the X-wing techs, because they needed Artoo to stay around and talk with the now-quirky X-wing computer.
      • That said, this troper doesn't even thing R2 has EVER had his wiped in his 200 plus years (I'm counting the Legacy comic)
      • 170 plus years that we know about (-33 to + 137), but even that begs one quest, how big is his hard-drive?
    • IIRC, they wanted the plans intact, or at least confirmation that the plans had been recovered. If they had been stuck on the pod, and the crewmen blew it up, they wouldn't have gotten any confirmation that they had recovered the plans, which is kind of the whole reason they bothered boarding the Tantive IV in the first place.
      • But the reason the commander told the gunner not to fire was that there were no life signs aboard, and that it was accidently jettisoned, not because they wanted the plans intact.
      • Good thing for Leia that Vader had orders to make certain that the Tantive IV hadn't passed on the plans anywhere else first, or else the simplest solution to their problem would have been to simply blow up the entire ship.
    • Plus, the dialogue alone shows sufficient reason to hold fire; there was no reason to shoot it, as there were no life signs on board. Either the crewmen had specific orders to not waste shots on empty pods, or they were just being lazy.
  • Why weren't the storm troopers cloned from someone who was force-resistant, considering one of their primary missions was to kill Jedi? Granted, they killed most of them by ambush; but still.
    • There are Force-resistant humans?
      • No. There aren't.
      • Resistance to the mind trick isn't something one is born with (unless one was born extremely force sensitive), it depends on how strong-minded you are (as mentioned by certain people during the movies). As far as i can tell it's pretty hard to be resistant to the directly offensive powers (such as push, lightning, grab etc.)unless you're a Jedi who knows how to counter these powers.
      • Nope, Watto says his entire species is immune to mind trick. Granted, 3 feet tall stormtroopers with little flappy wings wouldn't be very impressive, but perhaps there are other suitable species. Come to think of it, even if you can't have a force-resistant clone army, why clone puny humans and not some other, more imposing race for your Legions of Terror?
      • I'm not going to take Watto's word for that. It's like all Jews being market-savvy because a Jew went "I'm Jewish! We don't get ripped off easily!"
      • Because, at least according to EU, the New Order despises all non-humans, and Storm Troopers are more like the Royal Marines as compared with the British Army; more intensely trained and only trained for combat, as opposed to having a medical corps, an engineers corps, and administration corps or a logistics corps, as opposed to the Imperial Army which has all of those things. It would be like Nazi Germany allowing Jews into the SS.
      • Special exemptions for Sith or Sith-wannabes, of course, as Darth Maul and Grievous weren't human.
      • They were cloned from the most feared Mandolorian warrior alive, and the Mandalorians were a power to rival the Sith or the Jedi. Added to that, there's the point that they were humans.
      • Not only was it a legendary bounty hunter and Mandalorian pro, but if you played the Star Wars: Bounty Hunter game, it ends with Jango Fett killing a rogue Sith. This pretty much proved to Dooku that this was the guy.
      • Well at least an army of Wattos is better than the alternative, an army of Hutts (imagine the food bill).
    • Then why not clone a Jedi, or anyone who can use the force for that matter.
      • Because the Sith are just as elitist as the Jedi, and Palpatine didn't like the idea of his mooks being almost as powerful as his dragon
      • Palps tried it. Result: 6 insane Force-using clones, 1 traitorous Dark Jedi, 2 Sith Lords, and one trooper on a small shuttle. Hilarity ensures. Anyway, doesn't a certain mad clone from the Thrawn era come to mind?
      • Even ordinary levels of connection to the Force make the cloning process dangerous. Apparently the quick-growth used in cloning has a tendency to cause "clone madness" if accelerated too quickly — the result of a young soul trying to power a brain and body too adult for it — which is why the clone troopers still take ten years to grow to adulthood, even though the technology technically exists to flash-grow clones in less than a year. In the EU Thrawn manages to accomplish this by using ysalimiri to cut off the growing clones from the Force entirely during the development process, with the downside that this turns the clones into mindless emotionless initiative-less zombies (exactly the kind of soldiers Thrawn hates using).
      • Also, consider that the clone troopers weren't ordered directly by Palpatine, and that cloning force-resistent army would seem rather odd to the Jedi. Sometimes you have to accept weaknesses in your Mook Army to get said army in position.
      • Not to mention, the Old Order got their recruits by seeking out Force Sensitives across the galaxy. Aging at twice the normal rate, they would have had to be commissioned right after Phantom Menace. No way the Jedi wouldn't have noticed that many Force sensitives developing at once, since at that point they didn't have much else to do.
    • As has been stated the clone template was Jango Fett, the Mand'alor, head of all Mandalorians and the most feared man in the galaxy. The Mandalorians were the perfect soldiers for the army as they were considerd very dangerous by the Jedi, as in these non-Force sensitives were a match for the Jedi in battle. Also, the clones were bred to be loyal to the chancellor of the Republic and so an uprising was highly unlikely.

  • Most of the events in the second half of Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith have to take place all within about half an hour, during which time Obi-Wan Kenobi travels halfway across the galaxy twice. On the other hand, in the same period of time Padme goes from barely showing her pregnancy to eight months gone. Either way, something's up. What?
    • Some viewers thought the latter half of the film was set over a period of months, and that Padme wore concealing clothing.
      • False. Just consider it the will of the Force.
    • Simplest explanation: Obi-Wan travels at the speed of plot.
    • I think the official timeline of the main story given was somewhere between 7 to 9 days. The opening act was all in one day, and Anakin's dream was the end of that day. Obi-Wan was sent off to track Grievous on the 3rd day, killed him on the 5th. He returned to Coruscant on the 7th, fought Anakin on the 8th, Padme died on the 9th. The closing scenes can be anywhere from the next day to a week later. Star Wars has never mentioned any specific speed or real distances between two points. The most we have is that supposedly Coruscant is near the center of the galaxy and the Outer Rim is the outer rim.
      • Actually, Coruscant is in the Outer Core, not the Deep Core, which is so dense with stars as to be darn-near impossible to navigate, and the Outer Rim is actually about two-thirds of the way to the actual rim of the galaxy. Beyond the Outer Rim is Wild Space and the Unknown Regions. The Outer Rim was most likely named that because at the time of its naming it was the outer rim of the Republic—the Colonies and Expansion Region, for example, are actually inside the Inner Rim and Outer Rim, respectively. Here's three appropriately labeled maps: [1], [2], and [3]. Coruscant is in the red box near the center of the first one. I couldn't find Mustafar, but if you do please post its location.
      • So dense with stars its impossible to navigate?? Oy. Star Wars has no sense of scale...
      • It's not about scale, it's a function of hyperdrive technology. Hyperdrive doesn't work safely in a gravity well. The Deep Core is so choked with stars that there's no safe hyperspace routes through it.
    • It's worth mentioning that Hyperdrive is ridiculously fast. It's possible to travel from one side of the galaxy to the other in a single day.
      • That's generous, Palpatine gets a bad feeling and jets from the centre of the galaxy to the outer rim before Anakin becomes well done but the EU talks about the mapping of hyperspace routes being the key factor.
    • Nothing about the film's timeline is terribly clear but obviously it must have spanned at the very least some seven odd months or so. I mean, hello, pregnancy term going on. It's easy to get so caught up in the real time flow of one scene into the next that we forget that the characters aren't experiencing it the same way and, in fact, the interim between may be considerable to them while being instantaneous to us.

  • Several that Irregular Webcomic points out, including this, this, this, this, but most of all this one.
    • As to the first one, vast areas of Coruscant are actually industrial areas inhabited only by droids. In other words, the population is confined to certain areas, and Coruscant is a manufacturing center that can export plenty of things to offset the food imports.
      • On that note, how does anyone even breathe on a planet with no plant life?
      • The same way they can breathe on a planet-sized space station with no plant life. They manufacture their own oxygen.
      • Oxygen cannot be manufactured like widgets. It must be distilled from a compound in which it already exists, or fused out of lighter elements inside a star. It cannot be conjured.
      • Well why not manufacture it via fusion? This is Star Wars after all, they have the technology, and it would provide a modest energy bonus in the process. Either ship in some lighter elements or just set up a bussard collector (this is Star Wars, I assume they can perform fusion without requiring special isotopes since they've been doing it nearly forever) to get the stuff and fuse it into oxygen.
      • Just scrub the carbon from the CO 2 exhaled by the population with CO 2 scrubbers. We alreay have that technology and it wouldn't be hard to expand it to be more powerful and efficient.
    • Well, it's generally been assumed that Yoda was specifically guiding Luke's X-wing (hence why his instruments had a blackout on his first arrival on Dagobah, but apparently not subsequent visits — this is actually mentioned in at least one other article), and I'd always assumed that he knew that Luke was his son because Luke was openly going by his (and Anakin's) last name of Skywalker (not that the presence or absence of a "force vibe" is ever fully explained).
      • Regarding Dagobah, I always figured that, since Star Wars was originally conceived as a simple fairy tale (albeit IN SPACE!) the planets were stand-ins for relatively smaller areas: a planet-sized city is just a large city, and a "desert planet" or "swamp planet" are just a big desert and big swamp respectively. A space station the size of a "small moon" would just be the biggest fortress anyone had ever conceived.
      • In one of the Zahn novels (Heir To The Empire, I believe), Luke goes back to Dagobah, and muses that he has no problems now; Yoda must have been screwing with him.
    • Leia's Force sensitivity is obviously much more latent than Luke's, so she doesn't show up on Vader's radar as easily. Consider that young Luke is doing things like flying a skyhopper down a canyon with one hand while making nigh-impossible shots on womp-rats with the other, and doing so with such ease that it isn't until he talks to a professional fighter pilot about it that he's told its just not possible for human reflexes to do that. Leia, on the other hand, never operated above 'talented normal human' levels either before or throughout the movies.
      • So basically, Luke would have wound up a Jedi Guardian while Leia would have been a Consular...had those ranks still been around after the Jedi purge.
      • Vader was focusing on learning the location of the Rebel base. As a pleasant bonus (according to Death Star), Vader already wasn't paying as close attention as he should have because he's too busy forcing himself to not let Leia remind him of Padme.
      • Part of the reason for Leia's more subtle abilities is because after an incident shortly before her first birthday where she did demonstrate active force powers, she was very carefully kept out of situations where she could potentialy do so again.
      • This troper wasn't aware that force potential could be latent (It can be suppressed, but you have to know how to do it).
      • It's worth noting that Luke grew up on a planet where the Force talents that would naturally appear are the ones that might necessitate superior marksmanship and flying skills. Anakin presented similar talents, though (presumably) without the marksmanship. Leia, however, grew up a politician and the heir of a politician. She went on to become the youngest senator in history (either of the Empire, which is not that impressive, or of the entire Senate, which is). More than likely, Leia's powers just developed in the Jedi Mind Trick category rather than the Shoot Guys category.
    • Because obviously if you want to hide a boy from his father is to stick him on his father's home planet, with his uncle, and give him his father's last name.
      • Also his uncle's last name. Remember that Shmi Skywalker never married, so 'Skywalker' is the family name of his maternal lineage. Carrying the last name 'Skywalker' on Tatooine makes you as unremarkable as mud, it just means you're related to that moisture farmer over there.
      • Owen was not a Skywalker, he kept his name (Lars) when Shmi married his father.
      • Besides, Tatooine is about the only planet in the entire galaxy that you can be certain Darth Vader will never willingly visit again. It holds nothing but bad memories for him, and its instructive to note in 'A New Hope' that Vader never goes down to the surface to take charge of the search efforts himself, even when he really should have.
      • Qui-Gon actually assures Obi-Wan that this is the case, in Dark Lord: The Rise Of Darth Vader.
      • Plus, who says Shmi can't have had other relatives? For all we know, there could be hundreds of other Skywalkers in the vicinity of Mos Eisley.
      • Shmi wasn't from Tatooine (the ship she was on was captured by pirates and she was sold into slavery), so this is unlikely.
    • Hey, you forgot this one. To quote DMM "Seriously, if they could fit all that other junk in there...?"
      • Does anybody else get the impression that R2 LIKES most people not being able to understand him? It's probably saved him from more than one memory wipe.
      • R2 units are highly modular. All the stuff inside him is designed to be easily switched out with other stuff to meet the various needs of the owner. There's no telling many times he's been modified between Ep III and Ep IV. Also, the Corellian Trilogy features an astromech (albeit of a different model) that can talk. And he's an insufferable jackoff.
      • Also, there have been a number of comics where we DO get to see what R2-D2 says and "thinks", and quite a bit of it is stuff that would get him dimanteled within the hour.
  • In Revenge of the Sith, was Palpatine faking his "defeat" at the hands of Mace Windu? I have always thought that he was, especially since he killed those other three Jedi in literally under 15 seconds. It was also very conveniently timed, with Anakin showing up just as Windu got a lightsaber pointed at his neck. Plus he seemed to be holding his own fine until that point. Plus, he fought to a standstill with Yoda, who was far stronger than Windu. So was it a real defeat, or a fake to convert Anakin with?
    • Ah, no, Windu is stronger than Yoda in swordfighting. Plus, his fighting style is based around channeling the Dark Side, so he was capable of reversing Palpatine's attacks back at him. So, yeah, it was a real defeat. Though the groveling probably was fake.
    • The novelization is much more detailed about this, and implies that Palpatine let Windu almost win. In the novelization he tape recorded the whole thing. Which means he had already planned it out. Plus in one move he is able to turn Anakin to the Dark Side, and convince the population that the Jedi tried to assassinate him.
      • He had it planned out in that Anakin showing up, turning to the Dark Side and bailing him out was all part of his plan. The novelization makes it clear that had that not happened, Windu would have won. Windu is one of the most accomplished Jedi at having a sense for the flow of the future and his last thought is supposedly the knowledge that Anakin's intervention was the one thing that prevented his victory.
      • The extended universe information on Mace's lightsaber abilities combined with the choreography of the fight suggests that Windu won legitimately. Much of what Mace does is to throw Palpatine off-balance and then take advantage of it, while Palpatine is narrowly saved by his use of Ataru and thus, compensating for his age, and for being thrown off balance, with the Force. The most obvious example is the portion of the fight where Mace stands with his arms outstretched, clearly leaving his center open for attacks with Palpatine pointing his blade right at him just out of reach; when Palpatine tries to move in, Mace simply steps back, causing Palpatine to lean too far forward to try to make his blade connect, while Mace simply swings his own blade up and directs it off to the side. This is a philosophy taught in several styles of martial arts (this troper got it from Okinawan Karate) that lean towards self-defense instead of competition. It's likely that Palpatine simply foresaw all of this; he knew he would lose, and he knew Anakin would arrive when he did, so he just hammed up his defenseless old-man act in the end. Mace's ability to turn the dark side against its users means that Palpatine was already at a huge disadvantage, because Palpatine couldn't fight without the Force even if he wanted to. Of course, given how silly the choreography is in the rest of the movie, the chances of this being intentional is pretty slim.
    • The only reason Yoda backed off from his fight with Palpatine was that Yoda felt himself start to turn to the Dark Side (you can see his eyes turn yellow briefly in the movie, a trait of dark Jedi). He was letting his hatred of Palpatine get the better of him, and knew nothing good would come of it if he continued. It's anybody's guess who would have won if that fight had played out to its conclusion.
      • His eyes are yellow, genius. And having seen this scene quite a few time, I've never seen any indication of Sith eyes.
      • Not true. The novelizations make it clear that he was retreating because he'd lost the element of surprise and clones were on the way.
      • The movie implies this heavily as well.
      • Another poster's interpretation was simply that Yoda, becoming more and more immersed in the Force as the fight went on, finally heard the Will of the Force clearly telling him that he was not the Chosen One, i.e. the one who will kill Palpatine. Yoda's the kind to not argue with destiny.
      • This was happening at the same time as the Vader-Obi Wan fight, remember. Lucas is fond of this compare-and-contrast scenes. At roughly the same moment as Vader fucks up and attacks when the other guy has the high ground, Yoda refrains from making the same mistake and retreats instead.
    • This troper has struck the "under 15 seconds" thing from his personal canon, because the way it was executed in the film was non-believable and just lame. If you want mooks then bring mooks; if you don't, let the damn Jedi fight and die honorably, not "kekeke lightsaber in ur face K dun wit u". As the duel stands, it wasn't Palpatine who defeated them, but rather a power that eclipses even those of the Sith: editors.
      • Uh, they didn't bring mooks because they didn't want mooks. This is clearly The Worf Effect in action. There's also extended-universe precedent for it: many Jedi, quite possibly even the ones on the council besides Yoda and Windu, simply weren't good at lightsaber combat because, lacking the mindset and power of those two, there weren't any lightsaber-wielding opponents around for them to fight in the last thousand years. They only trained in blaster-bolt deflection.
  • In Revenge of the Sith, Anakin has told Mace Windu that Chancellor Palpatine is a Sith Lord. Windu and the Jedi immediately take it upon themselves to arrest and execute him without trial or any actual proof that Palpatine broke the law. Supposedly the Jedi are the guardians of "peace and justice" in the Republic. Except now the Jedi have the absolute right to execute the democratically-elected leader of the government solely because he follows a different Force-using tradition from them?
    • They don't. That's why the Jedi were traitors, remember? They justified it to themselves as necessary because Palpatine controlled the courts.
      • I agree with this interpretation. They work with the Republic most of the time because it enables them to protect the galaxy more and a Jedi/government civil war would be a bad thing (see: the great Jedi purge), but when one of their members tells them that the government of the Republic has been infiltrated and corrupted by their greatest enemy they pretty much say "Screw The Rules Im Doing Whats Right" and attempt a coup to remove Palpatine from power and capture him (Windu later decides it is better to execute him just to be sure). Though this does leave us with the problem of Obi-Wan's "my allegiance is to the Republic, to democracy!" line. Maybe these are just his personal convictions, but if they represent Jedi thought in general it leaves us with the problem that Palpatine, whatever his force tradition's history of animosity with the Jedi or the galaxy, is the rightfully elected ruler of the Republic. And while he IS conspiring to perform an self-coup which will destroy the Republic, the Jedi who went to arrest him had no evidence of that beyond the fact that he is an alleged Sith. So I dunno.
    • Actually, the Jedi probably do have the legal right to hunt down any Sith Lord they can find. Their influence over the founding of the Old Republic was immense, and they were the only military the Republic had for millenia. Given that plus the Sith also damn near destroying galactic civilization at least four separate times in recorded history, and the idea that Republic law considers 'existing while being a Sith' as a high crime is not far-fetched... the Jedi would want such a legal provision to exist, and they had more than enough opportunity to get it through the Senate thousands of years ago.
      • Palpatine raises this very point in the novellization. When Windu accuses him of being a Sith, he says something to the effect of, "So what? Even if it was true...that's not an admission...but even if it was true, the Republic's constitution guarantees religious freedom." To which Mace Windu replies: "Our authority here isn't legal. It's moral...
      • Watch that scene again. Windu and the other Jedi clearly say they're there to arrest Palpatine. It's not until Palpatine attacks them and kills three Jedi that Windu decides to outright kill him.
      • That's part of the larger point. Again, from the novelization, the Chancelor had just received from the Senate a bill placing the Jedi Order under his control, which is why he was able to appoint Anakin to the Jedi Council. Windu and co. had no legal authority to arrest him; making his charge of self-defence not entirely innacurate.
      • Maybe, but he actively struck first, with lethal force, when no one had made a move to attack him physically at all. The Jedi had given every indication, even with their very body language, that they were perfectly willing to take him peacefully.

      • Add one more item to the list of things that went wrong with the Jedi since the start of the Clone Wars (and I'm sure there were flaws before them, too).
    • Look at what the Jedi know about the Sith: there are two of them (how they know that, I'm not sure), and one was the (apparent) Separatist leader. It's not an unreasonable jump to the conclusion that the other Sith is also part of the Separatists. One assumes the Republic had laws against treason.
      • They learned about the "Rule of Two" the last time the Sith emerged as a terrorist death-cult bent on destroying half the galaxy and enslaving the rest. These things tend to stick around in institutional memory.
    • The first Darth Bane novel explicitly states that the Sith religion is illegal in the Republic. There would be no particular reason to remove that law just because you think they're all extinct; after all, no-one actually got around to purging Korriban from orbit, Imperium of Man style, so there was always a risk that the old Sith ruins would be found.
      • Without a copy of either fictitious documents in question (ie, the Republic's Constitution or the law referenced in the Darth Bane novel) it's an open question whether or not the Republic's Constitution supercedes any particular law. Bringing it within the context of the American justice system, any state or federal law is required to conform to the Constitution, and any out banning membership in a religious group would be struck down in short order.
      • The religious group that spends its free time torturing people with the power of pure evil? The one 'wholly dedicated to overthrowing the government, destroying another religion supposedly built around mercy and compassion, and crushing the population of the galaxy beneath its booted heel? This is the religious group we're discussing here? Even if the Republic constitution has a "freedom of religion" proviso, you can see why there'd be a willingness to make an exception for the Sith.
    • Returning to the really important thing, here, let's get our priorities straight and face reality: lunging across the frickin' room and slicing everyone in it to ribbons when none of them have so much as threatened to physically harm a single hair on your head is not self-defense and not even Disproportionate Retribution: it is mass murder, plain and simple. It doesn't matter whether the people you're slaughtering are themselves committing the crime of wrongful arrest or not: it was a peaceful arrest, without any intimation of a fight already about to start anyway, nor any indication that lethal force, let alone of every party involved, would be required for escape. I find it hard to imagine that the Republic's laws disagree with me on this.
  • Judging by Padme's screaming, she was suffering a lot during the birth. Has no one in that galaxy heard of painkillers? And since they were actually operating on her, shouldn't she have been put to sleep? Any real doctor would kill those guys.
    • If mother or baby is in bad enough shape, sometimes you need drastic measures to get the child(ren) out in time. This troper was born by unanesthetized Cesarean section, for instance.
  • Other than the fact that the plot wouldn't have worked so well, why did Padme lose the will to live? She believed that there was good in her husband, plus she had two children now. Why didn't she have the will to live for any of those? And another thing, the loss of the will to live does not cause instant death. It may weaken your immune system, but it in and of itself isn't fatal. And the droid says that "Medically, she's completely healthy".
    • I don't think it's stated anywhere in-canon, but I hold to the theory that Anakin was subconsciously killing her via his Dark Side powers — partly anger over her "betrayal", and partly him lashing out from the pain of the cyborg conversion surgery.
    • If you believe in 'Force Bonds' from the EU, then Anakin and Padme are perfect candidates to have one. If we go with this line of speculation, then his survival of his injuries becomes partly a matter of his unconsciously or otherwise drawing upon her life force to sustain his own. And thus, she died.
    • I think Occam's Razor and the general Narmy quality of the entire relationship combine to suggest that she was so demoralised by Anakin's descent into evil (his choking of her being the last straw) that she simply died of a broken heart. Really really fast. Which shows scant care for her children, and is medically absurd, but there it is. One wonders how they can even tell that they're "losing her" if she's completely healthy. But then again, she was giving birth and had been choked, and perhaps one can fanwank that she had, say, had a haemmorhage which oughtn't to have been sufficient to kill someone as healthy as she, but she was so traumatised that it did. Somehow.
      • Ahem. The Force. The Force. THE FORCE. It's freaking Star Wars — it's the one science-fantasy setting where people's physical health totally reflecting their mental state makes perfect sense. ("Luminous beings we are, not this crude matter", etc.)
      • This troper also wants to point out that "Force Choke" only looks like the person is being choked from outside, just like "Force Lightning" is supposed to only look like lightning from the outside. They're both direct assaults on a person using the Force, i.e. using the pure energy of life and spirit and emotion and thought bla bla bla. When Anakin Force-Chokes Padme he's * directly attacking* her will to live.
      • Except that with everyone else Vader force-chokes, it's either fatal straight away or it's not. He either chokes them to death then and there, or lets go and they seem to be okay. No one else whom he starts to choke but doesn't finish off gets a crippling case of lack of the will to live, the damage appears to be wholly physical. And Luke doesn't seem to suffer any ongoing psychic damage from being zapped by the Emperor's lightning, - once the assault stops, he immediately starts getting better rather than continuing to deteriorate. Seriously, this is the original Romantic Plot Tumor and I'm pretty sure "You're breaking my heart!" was meant to be the key. It would be easy enough to show Palpatine doing something menacing or Obi-Wan sensing something force-related was continuing to attack her but being unable to stop it, if that were the intent.
      • Or not: Luke spent a couple of days in intensive treatment (as in, with the Star Wars miracle medicine, Bacta) for the damage caused by Palpatine's Force Lightning. Bone calcification or something like that (which indicates it is, in fact, real lightning, not just a Force attack that looks like lightning). It's in The Truce At Bakura if you care to check.
      • Judging by Vader/Anakin's gesturing, force choke is essentially a weaker, controlled version of force crush.
      • It's under telekinesis on Wookieepedia. So it is an actual choke.
    • I think that it is rather safe to assume that Palpatine knew about Anakin's "kill the Emperor and rule with Padme" plan and killed her using the Force to secure Anakin's loyalty.
      • I agree with this theory and in fact have something to add: Given the Force bond between them, and the fact Palps was said to be using Sith Alchemy to keep Vader alive, I can assume he was drawing life energy from Padme to transfer into Vader.
    • This troper just likes to believe that a combination of Force Choke leaving no identifiable signs on Padme (this being before it becomes Vader's preferred method of dealing with failure, so there's little familiarity of the effects of Force Choke) combined with breathing the volcanic air of Mustafar and being left there by both Anakin and Obi-Wan for however long as they fight it out was what did her in.
      • Well, that or the fact that the Polis Masan doctors had little experience actually treating human patients and went with the best guess they had. If I were in the Naberrie family, I'd consider filing a malpractice suit...
    • Though this may not be the place for it, this troper would like to say that, prior to seeing III, he assumed that Padme birthed the children and hid with them from Anakin, only to have him hunt her down and off her. Obi-Wan would have swooped out of nowhere and saved the children, and run with them to Tatooine and Alderaan, respectively, but not after maybe fighting Vader off/to a standstill. However, most of Episode III was one big provocation for IJBMs, anyways, so don't fret about it.
    • It's like what Dr. Ball said, why the hell doesn't anyone use any of the wide arrange of medical equipment to save her? They might as well just pray!
      • Err, like the droid said, there's nothing wrong with her medically. Thus, the wide array of medical equipment wouldn't do anything. As absurd as that is.
      • If there's nothing wrong with her medically then why is she dying? Last time this Troper checked it's impossible to die without something going wrong, the human body isn't capable of just fading out (admittedly it could be possible in the Star Wars universe, but it's still a pretty silly scene).
      • As said, it's absurd, but it's what's stated on screen. If there's nothing wrong medically and yet somehow she's still dying, then medical devices won't be able to do anything. Even if they make her "more healthy" she'd still be dying for the same reason. I don't mean to defend the scene (which, as with the rest of the prequel trilogy, is indefensible), I'm just applying a little logic.
    • According to Wookieepedia she received heavy damage to her larynx which, because there was no visible external trauma, was overlooked.
  • When Vader picked up the Emperor, why is it he just kept shooting lightening out of his hands? Wouldn't a better course of action have been to use the Force to trip Vader?
    • He seemed to be too surprised to handle the situation effectively. You know how some people and animals lose control of their bladders when they're surprised? It's like that, but for lightning. Also, he couldn't see Vader's legs from his position, while moving something you don't have line-of-sight to seems to take more concentration than moving something you can see. The Emperor didn't have enough time to focus. In any case, the lightning did work- it killed Vader. It's possible that the Emperor felt he couldn't best Vader in a duel, so he decided to take him with him.
      • This troper would like to point out that "the Emperor has Force Lightning Incontinence" is the funniest thing he's run across all day.
    • You don't need to see something to use the Force on it. Besides, he demonstrated an ability to think clearly and calmly under life-threatening pressure before. Remember in Revenge of the Sith, where he talks Anakin into backing down when he was at lightsaber point?
      • Presumably Anakin was countering the force push, having the advantage of being firmly braced against the ground instead of suspended in the air. Also, note that Palpatine didn't stop the lightning as he fell, or even try to slow his fall using the Force, implying that Anakin was countering his attempts to save himself.
      • But Palpatine was stronger than Anakin. Before Mustafar he had the potential to be twice as powerful as the Emperor. After that, his power was estimated as at most 80% of Palpatine's.
      • Presumably that's why he got electrocuted, instead of countering it and not dying.
      • Because then Vader would have fallen and squished him.
      • Given that Vader has shown that his grip is so crushing that he can snap a human spine simply by closing his fist tightly, try to imagine how much agony Palpatine was in when Vader's hand was around his neck.
      • Palpatine had gotten a lot older since then, and he was already pretty old to begin with. His mind probably wasn't as good anymore.
    • Then again, some sources indicate that certain emotions are inherently conntected to some powers, and that the emotion for Lightning is "I hate you specifically so much I want you to die twice." If that's the case, then Palps may not have been able to turn off the flow, and draws attention to a fundamental flaw in Dark Side practice (loss of control).
      • The emotion for Force-choking someone is "I hate you specifically so much I want you to die twice". The emotion for Force lightning, a far less precise and discriminatory use of the Dark Side, is "I'M SO MAD I'MA GONNA BREAK EVERYTHING URRRAAAGH".
      • This explains why Darth Vader can't use it — not just that his cyborg body can't handle it, but he's also way too mopey and tormented inside to indulge in Palpatine's exultant break-everything gleeful rages. Palpatine smiles, cackles, expresses sheer exultant anti-joy at the pleasure of being evil * all the time* ; Vader, by contrast, never seems happy at all.
      • The emotion of pure hate for Force Lightning is exactly true, a similar event occurs when Darth Bane uses lightning on a Jedi in the second Bane novel just when a dying Jedi locks him in a Force-conjured sphere of energy. The lightning rebounds uncontrollably, Bane cannot turn off the power, and he is fried to a crunchy crisp. Only the efforts of one of the best healers in the Star Wars universe bring him back to health - not without much, much labor involved. In the interim, Bane is completely comatose and on the brink of death. Thus, Palpatine was so shocked and angry at Vader's betrayal that the Dark Side flowed forth from his hands like a great spout of rage, unable to be halted.
    • This Troper thinks that the metallic nature of Vader's suit conducted Palpatine's lightning back to him and they somehow got locked in a "feedback flow" or something, (like when you put a microphone next to a speaker) which wouldn't stop until one was taken out and was sufficient to kill Vader.
  • In Return of the Jedi, why is it that Vader thought that the best way to kill the Emperor was to pick him up while he was shooting lightening and throw him down a big hole? Since Vader's robot arms have super-strength, and seeing as how the Emperor is really old, shouldn't Vader have been able to kill (or at least KO) him with a punch to the back of the head? Granted, it would ruin his dramatic death scene, but still...
    • There's still a chance that he could take the punch and start shooting both of them. Do we know for certain that Vader's arms have super-strength? He's never shown bending or crushing anything with his hands.
      • Except Captain Antilles' neck, less than ten minutes into ANH.
    • Yes, in several books that are official canon, Darth Vader mentions that his arms are strong enough so that just one can lift a person with no help from the Force. We see him doing that in A New Hope. Also, the Emperor's heavy use of the Dark Side rendered his body physically weak. Vader was also strong enough to snap that starship captain's neck with one hand in A New Hope (the official canon book states that his neck snapped). Given those factors, it is extremely unlikely that a punch to the back of the head from Vader would leave Palpatine conscious.
      • Remember what happened when the cyborg General Grievous hit Obi-Wan? He shrugged it off. This is a cyborg figure who can punch hard enough to dent starfighter armour, (and had done so just earlier) so it's not unreasonable to think that Palpatine just might have blocked it using the Force.
      • Vader had the element of surprise. Grievous did not. Plus Palpatine couldn't stop him from picking him up and tossing him into a giant pit, so it is unlikely he could stop a punch, which is quicker. Or Vader could've just grabbed his neck from behind and snapped it, since it has been confirmed several times that he has the strength needed to do that.
      • True, but let's assume it was a spur of the moment thing where Vader wasn't really thinking clearly.
      • The book version reveals he did think about before acting.
      • Interesting. Can you quote it? Just because he put some thought into what he was doing doesn't mean he was thinking clearly though.
      • Can't quote it, mainly because it's a couple paragraphs long. You just wonder why he didn't go for a method that should've been thought of first.
      • This doesn't make any sense. Just because he had artificial arms that can crush necks doesn't mean he can lift a human being one-handed; those arms are attached to fleshy shoulders. Unless he was capable of unassisted one-handed human-lifting before the augmentation, the join would fail before he got any substantial weight off the ground.
      • Tell that to the starship captain in A New Hope.
      • Bracing with the Force.
      • In Revenge of the Sith he catches Obi-Wan's two-handed lightsaber swing with his off-hand (keep in mind Kenobi is a Jedi master, and an expert at saber combat), and shortly thereafter grabs him by the throat and starts choking him while grasping his arms and almost making him cut his own head off. Before the accident, Darth Vader was already supernaturally strong, and with the added durasteel plating and reinforcement of his skeletal structure, it's no wonder he can pick full grown men up off the ground and throw them across the room without drawing on the Force.
    • Because, as Lore Sjöberg said, the most important rule of the Force is "Die in front of Luke".
    • Tossing Palpatine down that pit, spewing lightning all the way, also helped set off the chain reaction that nuked the new Death Star. Perhaps Vader wanted to take down not just his master, but as much of the evil the two of them had wrought as possible?
  • Why is it that Darth Vader got into the habit of strangling admirals for minor setbacks? Not only is it unwise to kill off your most experienced commanders for failures that were no fault of their own, it is also likely to incite other officers to resign or defect to the Rebellion. This is even more strange when you consider that he was able to show restraint towards the official that dismissed the Force in the first film.
    • Because he's a baddie.
    • He is only shown strangling two officers in the movies, Ozzel and Needa. Context indicates that Ozzel has a penchant for disregarding Vader's precise instructions repeatedly, Vader asserts that Ozzel is "clumsy". You can also infer without guessing that Ozzel as Admiral was given specific instructions on the way to come out of hyperspace near the Hoth system, and that he had failed to follow instructions in the past hence: "This is the last time you fail me, Admiral." Needa was just a destroyer captain, and he willingly shuttles himself over to the Executor to apologize to Vader personally, Vader most likely killed him to show everybody else he won't tolerate giving him petty excuses, like letting a freight cargo escape three star destroyers when they had the numerical and technological advantage. It's worth noting that Pyett was promoted to Admiral in place of Ozzel; and that Vader can acknowledge that they lost the Falcon on causes not attributable to any neglect from Pyett, who gets to command the Executor up until its destruction during Rot J.
Vader suffers a bad case of Never Live it Down about this, since its not like he goes left and right killing people; he does however, intimidate and pressure people left and right; like he casually remarks to Motti that "the emperor is not as forgiving as he is".
  • Because he's like Stalin. First, he definitely has the power to do it, seeing as he doesn't really have to answer to anyone but himself and maybe the Emperor. Second, an officer's failure reflects badly on him, so by killing the offending officer, he severs the connection between him and the officer, essentially washing his hands of the mistake. Third, he was mad. REALLY mad.
    • Especially third. Vader's a veneer of icy control over an eternally seething core of pain-fueled epic rage. When regular people lose their temper, they scream. When Vader loses his temper, people die.
  • In the first movie, Tarkin was there to tell him to stop.
    • And it's fairly clear from other comments made by Leia that Tarkin actually outranks Vader ("holding Vader's leash"). They never explain exactly where "Lord" Vader falls in the Imperial chain of command, but apparently it's somewhere below Grand Moff.
    • In the EU, its explained that Vader's original official position was as the seniormost officer of the Imperial military, second only to the Emperor. However, that was after Tarkin was dead. This troper presumes that Tarkin's dominance over Vader was either a) less a matter of official rank and more a matter of whose influence with the Emperor was greater at that moment in time or b) Tarkin, in addition to being a Grand Moff, was the prior occupant of the job the EU described Vader as holding.
    • It may just have been that Tarkin was the commander of the space station, and a very important one at that. Vader could get away with killing random underlings. It may be that Vader is always the ranking officer on any ship (such as the various Star Destroyers he kills people on) but the Death Star is a big deal. Much like how on Deep Space Nine, Sisko can yell at Admirals and Captains all he likes, despite technically being outranked, because it's his damn station.
    • In the EU, a Moff is a planetary Governor, and a Grand Moff is essentially the governor of an entire star sector. Tarkin is of a rank second only to the Emperor or a Senator, and with the Senate dissolved...
    • I always assumed it was because Tarkin was friends with Vader - he actually calls him his friend at least twice.
    • Lots of people call people 'my friend'. Many of those people aren't friendly, and I suspect that Tarkin may have been among them.
    • This concept of "friendship with Lord Vader" confuses and infuriates this troper!
    • According to "the secret history of starwars", Vader was initially envisioned as the Secretary of Defense, A politician who has control over the imperial military, but doesn't hold an actuall rank (supposedly inspired by Henry Kissinger). Note that this only holds for the ANH, when ESB comes around George appearantly changed his mind and made Vader an actuall officer.
  • Ozzel actually was going to take over the ship... or at least try to.
  • Vader uses the Dark Side of the Force, which means he practices a religion based entirely on channeling one's fear, anger and hatred. While this may make one a fearsome opponent in a fight, it does NOT make one an effective leader. This, honestly, is probably a large part of the reason why the ragtag rebelion is able to defeat the Empire in the first place.
  • Quick note: Timothy Zahn, in the EU, recently brought this up. Captain Ozzel, later to become Admiral Ozzel, features in an adventure Mara Jade and Darth Vader were both involved in. During that adventure he proves himself to be corrupt, a coward, a crappy tactician, and the kind of nasty piece of work that the Empire's staggering level of bureaucracy breeds; a politician who knows how to inveigle his way into power and keep it and will sell out anyone over or under him to protect his power if he has to. Vader's been looking for an excuse to get rid of him for quite some time, and the terrible botch he made of GETTING VADER'S SON BACK (and keep in mind that more than anything else GETTING HIS SON BACK is an obsession that stokes Vader's deep irrational inner rage) was all the excuse he needed.
  • There is also the Alternate Character Interpretation that Ozzel is in fact working for the rebels or at least sympathyzes with them, which has some merit. Captain Needa on the other hand was just Vader hitting the Berserk Button.
  • What determines whether or not a person will be born Force Sensitive?
    • Apparently midichlorians. Yeah, I don't like it any more than you do.
      • Please.The films contain enough evidence that Force ability is inherited,and thus genetic or biological in some way.And exactly what Midichlorians are is never explored,just that there is some relationship between count and Force ability. All this 'midichlorians suck' stuff is just a knee-jerk reaction that never stopped.
      • So in that case how come there are tons of examples of Force Sensitives not inheriting their powers from anyone and just being born with them?
      • Simple genetics. Traits can be passed down recessively for many generations before manifesting again.
      • If Force sensitivity can be passed down genetically - and we know it can - then it must have a biological vector; hence the midichlorions.
      • But that makes no sense whatsoever. In the pre-civilization period of a species, tiny advantages in genetics translate to huge changes in population genetics. The ability to be slightly precognitive, sense danger, influence others, move matter by will alone offers huge advantage. Why wouldn't entire species produce Force-sensitive members, given the remendous evolutionary advantage it would offer?
      • In a series with giant Terriers and Laser Swords I don't see why it's so hard to believe that a person could just be born Force Sensitive.
      • Moreover, if Force sensitivity is genetic or biological, or physical in nature at all, shouldn't it be possible to endow people with it artificially, or enhance naturally sensitive people? Also what about Force sensitivity across completely unrelated species with no genetic similarities?
      • What about it? You may as well ask why completely unrelated species with no genetic similarities can see in the same spectrum of light, breath the same kind of air, and tolerate the same kind of food. The real question is, is the ability to sense/manipulate the Force an evolved characteristic? And yes, you CAN artificially endow someone with Force sensitivity or enhance someone who is already sensitive.
      • Why assume that completely unrelated species with no genetic similarities can see the same spectra, et cetera and so on? Unless Earth is host to a non-DNA-based biochemistry that I'm too ill-read to know about, it would seem we don't yet have enough knowledge to be able to answer that question.
      • There's nothing knee-jerk about it; can you not see how downgrading The Force from some awesome mystical energy that imbues all things to something you can catch from a blood transfusion kind of spoils the magic? Literally.
      • You sound like a religious fanatic who's protesting against evolution theory. Midichlorians are a pretty good way to scientifically explain force-sensitivity.
      • The Force itself is still an awesome mystical energy, it's Force-sensitivity that's revealed to be a function of the midichlorians. Considering that midichlorians are roughly modeled after mitochondria, I suspect one's midichlorian count is innate, not something that can be altered with a blood transfusion. And it could very well be that a high midichlorian count is just an indicator of Force-sensitivity, not its cause.
      • Still, it does ruin the idea that "anyone can be a Jedi", which drew so many young fans to the original trilogy. Never let elaborate explanations of story mechanics get in the way of escapism.
      • The Force has always been stronger in some people than others:
      • Darth Vader: The Force is strong with this one. (A New Hope)
      • Emperor: He could destroy us.
        Darth Vader: He's just a boy. Obi-Wan can no longer help him.
        Emperor: The Force is strong with him. The son of Skywalker must not become a Jedi. (The Empire Strikes Back)
      • Luke: The Force runs strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. And... my sister has it. (Return of the Jedi)
      • The main issue here may be the fact that the story mechanics are being given a wholly unromantic and frankly unnecessary explanation. The fact that something as awesome as Force sensitivity can be determined through what appears to be a home blood sugar tester is just kind of lame.
      • I don't remember it being stated that midichlorians are the things that actually cause Force Sensitivity.
      • Here's Wookieepedia's article on midi-chlorians. Let's get all the facts so we can properly complain about them.
      • Actually, one EU novel, Dark Rendezvous, described what happened when someone tried to artificially increase the Midi Chlorian count of a planet. Pretty much everyone went insane, due to the lack of Jedi training to handle it. Most of the citizens died, and the planet became "steeped in the Dark Side", with the side benefit of increasing any Force-sensitive's proficiency.
      • This happened in the video game Jedi Outcast, too. Thanks to a rather gruesome process involving the sacrifice of a bunch of innocent lives and the use of some dodgy weird glowy-crystal technology, they do manage to create artificial Jedi, the "Reborn". That said, Reborn are still erratic, prone to insanity, and have far less control over their power than real Jedi; their only advantage is numbers.
      • As I pointed out on DoingInTheWizard, I'd rather Force ability have been measured by a glowing rock or something rather than what looked more like a mobile phone. I'd always assumed a divide between the magical (Force) and technological aspects of the setting, just because that's what the canon seems to imply in every other case.
  • While we're on the subject of midichlorians, the Old Republic Jedi clearly understood that there was a biological, probably genetic/heritable component to Force-sensitivity. Why, then, would they insist on a policy of no personal attachments (i.e., no breeding) without immediately seeing why this might be a problem? I realize Jedi culture is based on an extraordinarily bastardized version of Buddhist philosophy, which advocated something similar, but special genetically-mediated abilities are not required to be a Buddhist monk! Given that the Jedi were in the process of de-selecting Force-sensitivity from the galactic gene pool, Order 66 and the subsequent Purge seem awfully superfluous. I have a couple of personal [[epileptic trees]] about possible reasons or work-arounds, but nothing that I know of as being substantiated, canonically or otherwise. One is the possibility that the moratorium on attachments was mostly considered practical advice, but came to be viewed as more essential after a senator or few, maybe even Palpatine, convinced a critical mass of powerful people that if the Jedi weren't officially discouraged from having children (with the threat to cut off their official association with the Republic as leverage) , they'd institute a Bene Gesserit-style program of eugenics, create an army of superhumanly powerful Force-wielders, and seize control of the government. Another is the possibility that Jedi either donated their reproductive cells for general use or otherwise practiced some variety of intentional non-monogamy for the purpose of keeping the Force-sensitive trait in play without forming family attachments that made them subject to distraction or manipulation.
    • There seems to be no shortage of Force users in the galaxy...it's possible that, while the Force runs strong in the Skywalker family (Anakin being implied to have been created by the Force), usually the presence of midichlorians is not linked to genetics, but is instead more a "will of the living Force" thing.
  • The Jedi can levitate an X-Wing; why can't they levitate themselves? Given all the mile-deep pits in the Star Wars universe, it'd be awfully handy...
    • Well, it took an awful lot of concentration for Yoda, supposedly one of the greatest Jedi ever, to move that X-Wing, so it stands to reason that one needs a certain level of calm and focus in order to levitate anything man-sized or larger. It's tough to keep your wits about you when plummeting into a reactor core.
      • Further proven by Galen Marek, who needed a decent amount of time and a huge, concentrated effort to bring down a Star Destroyer with the Force. One would surmise that size matters not in terms of how impossible it is (that is to say, it's never impossible) but something large still requires more effort.
      • But "size matters not", right? Or was Yoda lying for no reason?
      • He wasn't lying, he was giving the truth from another point of view.
      • Seems clear to me — all that matters is whether you believe you can move the object, but because large objects are larger and heavier, it's * harder* to truly visualize moving them. There are plenty of limitations on a Jedi's power, but these are limitations in the Jedi's ability to perceive the impossible happening, not in the power of the Force itself.
      • In theory this means that you can stop a Jedi's power by making something, say, appear to be heavier or bulkier than it actually is. The EU doesn't capitalize on this possibility, though. (Interestingly, it * does* play with the idea that an accurate visualization is all that's really necessary for things like Force Choke — a powerful Sith can Force Choke someone over a videophone, for instance.)
      • Also explains why Force Flight is a separate power — visualizing yourself lifting off the ground and flying around must be a harder image to keep in your head than just imagining an object flying around.
      • Where is it stated that Yoda was struggling to lift the fighter? he mightr have been going slow to show Luke what could be done.
    • Although it's certainly not canon (though I wish it was), Lego Star Wars actually addresses this issue. Jedi can't levitate themselves, but two Jedi can levitate each other. Meaning two working in concert essentially have the power of flight. Wobbly flight, but flight nonetheless.
    • It'd be like lifting yourself up by your bootstraps, yeah? Action and reaction. Even Jedi have to respect the fundamental laws of physics.
      • But apparently landspeeders don't...
      • Landspeeders nullify gravity using SCIENCE(tm). Jedi have effectively an invisible arm with which they can manipulate distant objects. Totally different phenomena.
      • Like the vectors in Elfen Lied perhaps?
      • Oh right, and helicopters are breaking the laws of physics by hovering.
      • Hey, helicopters obey Newton's Third Law by pushing down on the air with the rotors. Jedis still nominally follow the same principle by using their legs to push off the ground (using the Force to add a little juice to their muscles). For all we know, Jedis induce counter-forces when they lift stuff.
      • Helicopters don't push down on air with their rotors. Rather, the rotors have a curved upper surface (like a conventional airplane wing) which means that air flowing over the top of the blade moves faster than the air flowing under it. This causes an area of low pressure to develop above the blade, lifting the helicopter. The downwash seen when helicopters fly close to the ground is a secondary effect, and does not play a significant role in flight.
      • You've just described how the helicopter does push down on the air. The "pressure" is the air pushing on the blades, by Newton's third law, the blades push on the air. The forces involved in normal flight must obey Newton's third, unlike The Force involved in Force Flight which is a completely made up fictional entity, basically equivalent to magic, that, I must repeat, does not exist. If it makes everyone feel better imagine the opposing force acts on the Forcitonium that acts as the medium for the Force.
      • Nonono, what you're talking about is the Bernoulli principle, which, while it does contribute some lift, is not the deciding factor by far, that is actually the angle of the wing/blade as it moves through the air. This becomes rather obvious when you realize planes are perfectly capable of flying upside down... That said, you got the helicopter bit totally wrong as well. Anyone who knows anything about aviation knows that helicopters don't fly at all, they're just so ugly that the ground repels them.
      • Unlike an airplane which is in its natural element in the air and wants to fly, a helicopter only flies when it BEATS THE FRICKIN' AIR INTO SUBMISSION!!! A helicopter has to scratch and claw its way into the air and hang on for dear life for the entire flight.
    • I always thought that the crazy crap they did in the lightsaber fights in the prequels was thanks to flinging themselves around with the Force.
    • Two words: Force Flight.
    • Actually, Jedi can levitate themselves (Mara Jade did so in Betrayal), it just uses a lot (and I mean a LOT) of energy.
      • If you consider the Jedi Knight games as canon (I think they are officially canon, but I could be wrong), then Jedi CAN fly, in a limited fashion. The Force Jump ability allows them to propel themselves upwards by nearly a dozen meters, and to control their descent downwards, but it requires an enormous amount of force power reserves, much like the above troper mentions. When you've got the highest level of Force Jump, and you jump to your maximum height, it uses over 50% of your force points. So, even if the game allowed you to use all your force power on one jump, you could only "fly" upwards by about 20 meters before completely losing force control and falling to your doom. And the flight requires a solid surface to propel oneself from, meaning that the Emperor could not have just flown back to the relative safety of his Jedi-filled throne room.
      • It should also be pointed out that the Emperor had just finished being half-throttled by somebody who can snap necks with a simple squeeze of their hand. It's likely his head wasn't too clear at that point, Force Flight or no Force Flight.
  • Can Chewbacca even pronounce his own name?
    • I always thought that was an approximation of his real name that Han used because of his inferior vocal cords.
  • Why the hell did the X-Wings have to fly down the trench and try to make a shot that involved the shot itself making a 90 degree turn down a hole anyways?? Why didn't they just line up with the hole on the way in, and fire when in range? Yes it would be a tough shot, but it couldn't be any harder than the shot they actually made!
    • Because of the huge battlestation full of turbolasers that would have shot them while they were flying at it without evasive maneuvers.
      • Yeah, but the main turbolaser (the planet killing one) is far too imprecise for one person starships, and the only other canons we see are located in the freaking trench!
      • Er, no. The surface of the Death Star was crawling with cannons - so many that most of the X-Wings were shot down before they even reached the trench.
      • I don't get it either. They had to reach the Death Star's surface once. Instead of going right to the target (and shot the missile from the farthest possible range), they approached a different point of the Death Star and they travelled a lot in the trench too and attempted a harder shot.
      • They had to target the port through the ECM. The trench was the safest place to stay still and compute the trajectory. They couldn't approach from above the port because then the many other turbolasers would have had a perfect shot as the fighters were lining up.
      • For those who are still wondering, consider the geometry: Approaching the exhaust port from directly above means that every single turbolaser on that side of the Death Star has a clear shot at you, in addition to you being potentially vulnerable on all sides to enemy TIE fighters, in addition to the part where you're having to fly a steady, straight line directly through the middle of a massive aerial battle. The trench, on the other hand, gives you cover on both sides and the bottom, and restricts the number of turbolasers that you have to deal considerably.
      • This is true for any one point on the surface of the Death Star, not just the exhaust port. Unless you're really close already, or hiding behind something else, you're going to be in line of sight of a good portion of the surface.
      • Incorrect. The main dish of the superlaser covers almost a full eighth of the Death Star's surface, and it has apparently no turbolaser emplacements. Approach from over it and with the equatorial bulge between you and the other part of that hemisphere, you could notably cut down on the amount of fire you're taking. Then, once you're down low enough that the DS' horizon blocks off most incoming fire, fly around the DS nap-of-the-earth to reach the exhaust port.
      • If you have to fly "still" in order to line up the shot, then the trench is the safest place to fly "still". Yes, getting to the trench is just as dangerous as getting to the exhaust port directly in terms of exposure to turrets. But getting to the trench allows you to bob and weave, dodge, and otherwise engage in evasive maneuvers without having to worry about lining up the shot. Getting to the exhaust port directly means you have to fly relatively straight at it, and thus makes you really, really, really, (imagine this pattern repeating a few hundred times) easy target. I believe that was the point of the prior troper.
      • Which was pretty much what they were doing in the first place, at least with regards to hitting the surface and flying low. Except even then, they were losing pilots to turbolaser emplacements. And there's no evidence the superlaser dish lacked any turbolaser emplacements.
      • It wouldn't be much use as a parabolic reflector if the smoothness of the surface was broken by anything as large as a turbolaser emplacement.
      • Considering we don't see anything being reflected in the dish in the first place, I seriously doubt it was being used as one. The beams generated emerge from the edges of the dish exclusively.
      • There's really only one engineering reason to build something that shape in the first place. They did not use up 1/8th of the surface area of a moon-sized object just because they thought it looked cool, did they? If we don't see it, OK, the energy frequencies involved are not visible light.
      • Only one engineering reason using current knowledge of physics and engineering, you mean. Star wars technology is way, way, way past our undertsanding of technology, and they may have had another reason for designing it that way.
    • While preparing for the assault, they explain that the Death Star was designed to face more conventional attacks, specifically direct frontal assaults using larger capital ships. The rebels' attack was successful because the smaller fighters were able to use the Death Star's own structural features as cover, and expose themselves to a fraction of the fire they would have taken had they been flying around in open space. The turbolasers that were able to shoot at them were only the few directly bordering on the trench, and even then they had to turn them in ways that they weren't meant to fire for them to be of any use. Had the rebels attempted to attack the exhaust port from above they would have been massacred.
    • What confuses this troper is why they didn't try shooting the turrets, I mean wouldn't these be obvious first targets for everyone 'not' in the trench at the time? BTW, how in hells name do the missile manage to turn 90 degrees in a few metres in an environment with no air to push against?
      • To answer the first question, most of them were either fighting TIE fighters or raiding the surface as a distraction. By the time the trench runs started, they were fully engaged with the TIE fighters,a nd attacking the trench guns wa simpossible. Also, clearing away dozens or hundreds of turrets along the approach would have been unfeasible. To answer the second question, futuretech: the same stuff that lets the fighters and other ships do the same thing.

  • In Return of the Jedi, Han and Leia get cornered by two stormtroopers while in front of the backdoor to the shield generator. Leia then fires one shot (as the sound effect clearly indicates) at the two stormtroopers and she gets them both. Now, I know stormtroopers are pathetic, but that's pushing it just a bit.
    • This may have been Leia's force powers starting to show themselves.
      • No, there were two shots. I remember that scene. One shot we see, then a sound effect as the camera pans away.
      • I found her picking off the imperial on the top of the walker from the ground, far more impressive. One shot.

  • If English doesn't exist in written form in Star Wars-land, how did X-wings and Y-wings get named after their resemblance to letters of the English alphabet?
    • The X and Y equivalent resemble their English equivalents.
      • B Or some of their symbols do, not necessarily the ones that correspond to similar letters in English.
      • Or, since the whole thing is being translated into English for our benefit (so to speak), the names get translated. Maybe the literal name of the X-Wing and Y-Wing in Star Wars Basic is "Cross-Wing" and "Fork-Wing" or something like that.
    • There is an alternate Aurebesh script that is our Latin alphabet. It's not popular, but it's still used in formal roles, like on logos. Signatures are written in it, and droid designations are made from them. Think cursive writing vs printed letters.
      • This isn't canon; this is a presupposition that the Wookieepedia people have made to explain certain inconsistencies in the writing. It's not a * necessary* presupposition — you can also explain it all away as Tolkien-style "translation", like how Tolkien gives a long-winded explanation of what the real Middle-Earth days of the week are and why he translated them as "Friday morning" or "Sunday dinner". There is no reason to think "Artoo" isn't actually named "Reshdreth" or something, but that the "translators" have rendered it as "R2" so we get the idea that it's a cold impersonal numerical designation.
    • Who says it doesn't exist? You can clearly see some English writing on the Death Star's tractor beam controls in "A New Hope"
      • That got retconned out. They're Aurabesh in the Special Edition.

  • In Revenge of the Sith, Anakin/Vader says "if you're not with me, you're my enemy" and Obi-Wan replies that "only a Sith deals in absolutes". In other words, Obi-Wan is saying "if you deal in absolutes, you're evil". That sounds like an absolute to me, so Obi-Wan is basically saying that he's a Sith.
    • It's a one-liner, not a deep philosophical teaching. If you want to elaborate on it it's probably better to think of it as meaning "Only bad people divide every conflict into clear and obvious 'sides' and don't try to deal with each individual involved based on their personal motivations and points of view".
    • Just that absolute came to you? I saw several, including: Light Side/Dark Side, Jedi/Sith, Stuffing/Potatoes, Tastes-Great/Less-Filling, Control/Passion, Selfishness/Selflessness, Regular/Decaf. Then again, we are talking about a religion centered on bacteria.
      • You forget "Do, or do not. There is no try."
      • The Midichlorians are not the basis of their religion (either one), they're a transmitter— a radio for talking to the Force!
      • You just created an image of a Sith Lord melting himself by attempting to replicate Darth Plagueis's experiments. Ten points, and a tank full of High Octane Nightmare Fuel.
      • Hmm, 'Darth Belloq' does have a certain ring to it.
      • Which means we're talking about a religion that centers on using bacteria as a radio transmitter. Not sure that's an improvement.
      • They're not bacteria. They're clearly the Star Wars equivalent of mitochondria, which actually is kind of an interesting thing to use for "the Force" (and mitochondria * are* shockingly universal for all multicellular life on Earth, and you can ascribe some religious significance to that; Madeleine L'Engle did it for A Wind in the Door and I thought it came off pretty well).
      • You might as well say that all real-world religions are centered around randomly-firing neurons. I don't know about you, but I prefer the bacteria who let you crush things with your mind and see the future.
      • That's not the whole quote. Look at the scene again. Anakin says, "If you're not with me, then you're my enemy!" That's an absolute. It's very clearly the Sith way - 'My way, or the highway'. Obi-Wan replies, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes - I do what I must." In essence, he's telling Anakin that they don't have to be enemies, but unless Anakin backs down, he has no choice. He doesn't say "Only a Sith SPEAKS in absolutes", as that's absurd. Merely that Sith demand absolutes, whereas Jedi try for compromises when they can.
      • But he later DOES deal in absolutes. After he yells that palpatine is evil, Anakin replies "from my point of view, the Jedi are evil!" This is quite a reasonable respone; he is making Obi-Wan aware that he has a different opinion about what is good and what is evil, and hence he is figthing what he believes to be evil just as Obi-Wan does. His response? "Well, then you are lost!" Obi-Wan doesn't even consider the possibility that he is wrong, that Anakin might have an opinion that is different than his but might be equally valid, and that they are both figthing against what they believe to be a force of evilness; he simply rejects the idea out of hand. In his mind, Sith are evil, period. That's absolutism, and that's not just speaking in absolutes, that's dealing in them. As to the apparent hypocresy of this act, Obi-Wan is just another indoctrinated, dogmatic Jedi who believes a lot of things about Sith because that is the way he has been instructed, including the belief that it is only them that "deal in absolutes" in spite of the fact that the Jedi do the same thing.
      • Palpatine ordered him to murder CHILDREN for effs sake! Obi-wan saw it! Is purposely killing children morally ambiguous somehow? Since when?
      • The logical fallacies in the Jedi way of thinking were more or less the whole point of Palpatine's plot. If the Jedi weren't thinking that way, he wouldn't have been able to manipulate them so easily.
      • Yoda is green. Space vacuum is empty. Chancellor Palpatine IS evil. That's not absolutism; that's objectivism. What Anakin has lost is his objectivity. If Obi-Wan had said "Chancellor Palpatine is, always was and always will be evil", that would be absolutism. As it stands, all he does is point out the obvious fact which is true at that point in time.
      • Honestly, a big flaw in the exchange is Anakin saying, "From my point of view..." Calling it your point of view implies you do recognize that it's only a point of view; further, people just don't argue that way. By all rights, he should have just said, "The Jedi are evil!" at which point Obi Wan's line, "Then you are lost!" would make more sense, as Anakin would have treated it as an absolute. Sure, it's a Call Forward to the "From a certain point of view" thing, but that line just breaks the whole scene for me.
    • The tropers here are barking up the wrong tree, based on misremebering what Obi-Wan actually said. What Obi-Wan said was, "Only a Sith drinks Absolut." It's a little known fact that part of the requirement for joining the order of the Sith is appreciation for Swedish vodka.
      • This troper just experienced the very unpleasant sensation of having hot coffee spurted out one's nose. Thank you for that laugh.

  • If R2 knew what was going on the whole time in the original trilogy, why didn't he say/do something when Leia and Luke started getting romantic- is he just a little perv into incest, or something? I mean, he could've given them an annoying jolt, or provided convenient distractions, at least.
    • Unless I'm mistaken, R2's never even around when they start getting "romantic," and if he was, what's he going to do? Zap one of them until they stop making kissy faces? Plus, he may have knew how important it was to keep Leia's real identity a secret.
      • Babble at C-3PO who could translate "Master Luke, sir! This is terribly untoward but Artoo says that the princess is your sister! Yes, he's most insistent that you STOP DOING THAT." And, I know this is getting into the giant "It Just Bugs Me" sink that is "Not ready for the burden were you," and "...From a certain point of view," (Gah, Obi Wan's such a tit), but why was it so important to keep Leia's identity a secret - from Luke, at any rate? I suppose what ultimately happens - Vader learning of his relationship to Leia by reading Luke's mind - might have happened earlier, but how would that make things any worse? Leia was already running away from the Empire as hard as she could. Luke and Leia would have had the benefit of a partially restored family, the rebellion would have had the advantage of another Force-user, no one would have done anything incesty. Surely even if there are risks, they're more than outweighed.
      • If Luke knew Leia was his sister, than Vader could have probably pried it right out of his head on Bespin and used it to manipulate him or Leia to turn to the dark side. From Obi-Wan's perspective, this would be an unacceptable risk.
      • I find it far more amusing to consider that he knew and didn't say anything deliberately. Because he found it hilarious.
      • Or maybe, being a droid, he doesn't understand/doesn't care.
      • Remember R2 never met Luke, why would he know that the two were related? He might be able to guess, but Luke was some backwoods kid to him. R2 wouldn't have a reason to say anything.
      • He never met Luke before but he definitely met Anakin and Obi Wan. If he still had his memories at this point, he should have come to the conclusion with some minor logic within half an hour into New Hope. But hey, I don't buy Lucas had any plans for a relationship between Vader and Luke any other then "the evil guy that killed my father´."
      • In the third movie, C-3PO and R2-D2 get their memories whiped at the very end of the movie. R2 didn't even know.
      • I thought that was just Threepio. Of course, Threepio is a diplomat and got the chance to watch most of the Anakin/Padme relationship (that sounded less perverted in my head). R2 spent most of that time plugged into Anakin's ship, occasionally chatting with Threepio. Threepio has no common sense and didn't recognise pregnancy until Obi-Wan asked "Anakin's the father, right?" R2 was designed and programmed as a mechanic, and even though the Naboo engineers crammed on all the upgrades they could, I somehow doubt information dealing with incest taboos or genetic relationships were the highest on their list of priorities. He's the Engineer, not the Medic.
      • This troper blasts anyone who suggests incest with Force lightning. Only it's green lightning so it's good. Which is another thing that Just Bugs Me.
      • C-3PO got his memory wiped, R2-D2 was spared the procedure.
    • What would be the reason for telling R2 that Luke and Leia were the offspring of Vader? That'd be a pretty shabby way of keeping their birth a secret from Vader, while though R2 is definitely the smarter of the two droids, C-3PO would probably have gotten the info too, and then everyone would know. Just better to have the droids also think that they died at birth. Unless you go with the idea that the first three movies actually are canon, in which case, this would be the least of your worries.
    • It's possible that, being a robot and therefore nonbiological, the Squick simply doesn't occur to Artoo.
    • Star Wars takes place "a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away," not in modern western nations of the Earth. How do we know they have an incest taboo? As far as I know nothing in the movies has ever suggested this to be the case.
      • The fact that Leia's with Han and not Luke in the end. ;) Seriously, though, the incest taboo is universal, at least within the immediate family. What this native troper is surprised at is why the dominant culture seems to fetishize incest so damn much.
      • If there is a culture that doesn't mind incest, even if that culture is an internet culture, that implies that the incest taboo ISN'T universal.

  • Why is Lucas doing this Clone Wars movie, and why is he advertising it as covering the "untold story" of the Star Wars saga? Wasn't the Cartoon Network series quite well-regarded? Isn't this new thing completely redundant? Why does this annoy me so much?
    • A cash-in, obviously.
      • The story of the upcoming Clone Wars film/series is quite different from the Cartoon Network miniseries. Star Wars Clone Wars didn't have any Hutts, nor did Anakin have a padawan. It would seem that the entire new film takes place during the months that the original series skipped over: the "Anakin kicking butt" montage that immediately followed his promotion to the rank of Jedi Knight. So this particular story is new, even though the Clone Wars in general have been covered nearly to death.
      • As for why Lucas is doing this, while it's definitely a cash-in, keep in mind that Lucas had very little input on the original Star Wars Clone Wars miniseries (he was a little busy making Episode III at the time). I wonder if he's unhappy with the way it turned out, and wants this new series to be a do-over.
      • Au contraire, he liked the series. This is just an expansion of the same concept.
      • Which doesn't justify firing Genndy Tartakovsky, the guy responsible for everything good about the old series, and replacing him with a director who, judging from the miserable reception the movie got, is a derivative hack.
      • That's hardly his fault. The guy wasn't interested in making any more.
      • Um, that's not what I heard. Last I heard he wasn't even asked about making the new Clone Wars feature film or full-length series.
    • Speaking of which, why the hell doesn't the New Jedi Order era get any of the love it deserves?
      • Because the Yuuzhan Vong are silly.
      • Because the Character Derailment is massive. There are only a few authors who've ever handled Star Wars right... Timothy Zahn is one of them. Real enemies, not a superweapon-a-book. Handling the Force much closer to the original movies (no exceptionally over-the-top stunts - more acting as a guiding force). New characters with depth and backstory to them. Generally fixing up most of the shit the rest of the authors introduced, in his final duology. In this troper's (admittedly picky) mind, Timothy Zahn and Michael Stackpole are two of the only authors who stand out as handling Star Wars relatively well. (Half the reason Stackpole's there is his canon Fix Fic of KJA's Jedi Academy trilogy in I, Jedi.)
      • It suffers from the central problem of Sequelitis — it derails and destroys the satisfying resolution offered to us in the original work, creating a frustrating sense of having been robbed. So the Thrawn Trilogy has the problem that it takes all the air out of the triumph at the end of Rot J — no, the galaxy * hasn't* been saved, the Empire hasn't been defeated, in fact the * real* greatest threat to democracy everywhere hasn't even been fought yet. And New Jedi Order does the same thing to the Thrawn Trilogy — uh oh, * more* aliens who show up out of nowhere and blow up the entire laxy at once.
      • Not to mention that on a personal level fans have a reason to be pissed that characters who were supposed to get a happy ending haven't been allowed a moment's peace. Han and Leia don't get much time for a happy marriage — by Legacy of the Force, they've become one of the most shat-upon couples in the galaxy, children dying and going crazy left and right. Luke and Mara, if you like that ship, haven't gotten much of a happy marriage either.
      • And really, the constant unending conflict gets ludicrous at a certain point when you try to fit it into continuity. How can the galaxy be beset by threat after threat after threat all within the same 100-year timeframe? Under conditions like this it's ludicrous that the Old Republic could've possibly lasted for 5,000 years — the New Republic barely lasted for 50! As has * any* galactic government in the modern era!
      • All those threats spring from a very small number of events- specifically, the rise of Palpatine and the (possibly related) attack of the Yuuzhan Vong. By taking over the Old Republic, Palpatine destroyed the old power structure, which was the only thing preserving relative peace. In the process, he threw the galaxy into chaos. Suddenly, lots of small players saw opportunities to make their move and everything went crazy. The result? A hundred years of unending civil wars. That Magnificent Bastard...
      • Tolkien understood this problem when he was toying with the idea of a LotR sequel and ditched it. Any sequel that was true to the ending of the original — the idea that supernatural evil has been dealt a permanent defeat and the world is going to go on morphing into the mundane world of Men — would be a boring anticlimax. Any sequel that * wasn't* true to that idea would spit on everything the original characters fought and sacrificed and in some cases died for.
      • The problem isn't so much that it's un-doable, it's that the original trilogy would've had to have been constructed with the idea in mind. Babylon5 does this, having a recurring theme (even blatantly saying it in the season-four finale) that people are imperfect and the most any of the main characters can hope to do is make their own eras a little better; the characters expect that, as is true of the unpredictable nature of life, it is not possible to make their world completely perfect, nor is it reasonable to assume that the changes they make will still be making peoples' lives better a year in the future, or a hundred years, or five hundred, or a thousand, or a million. The original trilogy, however, carries with it a more fantasy-oriented theme (I'm sure we've all heard the line about how Star Wars is "really just high fantasy IN SPACE" and doesn't concern itself all that much with philosophical lessons about the nature of conflict. Thus, neverending conflict seems out of place.
      • Um, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_years_war, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_crusades. Why exactly, is a few hundred years of conflict after a civil war/ constant invasion by outside forces unreasonable again? And in response to an earlier note, why do people complain about the "superweapon a week" nature of the early EU? I mean, didn't the original trilogy show us a Superweapon a week (Death Star, Executor, Death Star II AND Executor). I have nothing against cool enemies, and I love Timthy Zahn, Michael Stackpole, and Aaron Allston, but Star Wars is Space Fantasy Opera and Superweapons are Dragons, not to mention pretty common in space opera. So, if most fantasy is based on the medieval period, and there were plenty of century long constant wars, it seems to fit the setting perfectly to me.

  • Why is it that, prior to Jedi, the Millenium Falcon is only ever attacked by four or five TIE fighters at once? Surely the Death Star in A New Hope and the Star Destroyers in Empire can carry more fighters than that.
    • 1) They let them go, 2) They weren't trying to destroy the Falcon, just disable her, so blowing her up with hundreds of starfighters is a bad idea. Four or five starfighters can do the disabling thing easily, more would just have got in the way.
    • 1) They "let them go" ONCE. What about all the other times? Like at the end of episode IV, when the Falcon gets to fly all the way back to the Death Star and start shooting down TIE fighters without anyone noticing them because they were BehindTheBlack. 2) The entire Imperial fleet could not "do the disabling thing".
      • 1) Tarkin didn't release all of the station's fighters because he was too arrogant to believe the Rebels were an actual threat, and Vader didn't get any warning of the approaching Falcon because of all the jamming. 2) You don't go for overkill when you're trying to disable something. They were using the minimum of force; they could have gone for the hundreds of fighters, but then there'd be a chance the Falcon would have been shot down. Star Destroyers can disable things without any fighters, it just dispatched fighters because the Falcon is much more maneuovrable than Leia's ship.
      • In defense of Tarkin, the amount of fighters released was sufficient to rapidly destroy over 90% of the attacking Rebel fighters. His poor fortune was that the remaining few survivors included Luke Skywalker. But, really, that's not Tarkin's fault.
      • Unfortunately for Tarkin, to the best of this troper's memory most of those fighters were released on Vader's orders. Because Tarkin is very bad at getting inside a hero's head, he didn't think any real threat could come from something that small. Vader, the ace pilot, knew that if anything can hit a weak point, a starfighter can. As an additional bonus, according to Death Star neither Tarkin nor Vader genuinely knew that the bullseye was there until the Rebels were clearly focusing on that one trench.
      • That is an awesome and perfect point. Vader knows that a fighter is a threat to a huge ship because he has personally taken down ships that size on his own.
      • When the Falcon pulled its Big Damn Heroes moment, remember that they were flying through a field of jamming so intense that both sides' pilots were stuck using their eyes instead of sensors; they actually probably wouldn't have been able to see the Falcon or even notice its presence until it opened fire.
      • The limited space in the tunnel would mean that only 4-5 TI Es would have any real chance of survival (one crash would tend to take out everything behind it, either because they swerve to avoid it, or the get hit with debris, or they're blind going through, and so end up clipping something anyway.
    • Releasing too many fighters would lead to unnecessary casualties because they would get in one another's way.
    • Even if the TIE Fighters did see it, the Millenium Falcon is a freighter. They aren't going to be able to eyeball the illegal weapons modifications, so why prioritize it over the X-Wings and Y-Wings?
      • Because it's quite well known (they don't need to actually see the modifications to know they exist), and they know it's probably carrying much heavier ordnance than the fighters.
      • Um, the Millenium Falcon became well known BECAUSE of the events at the Death Star. I really doubt the Empire had any idea the extent of its modifications beforehand, compared to actual fighter craft not ordered to let it escape.
  • Blasters can be "set for stun". Exactly how can a foking fiery ball of overheated burning plasma be set to not scorch a hole the size of a fist into someone just beats me.
    • You know what you call what would otherwise be plasma if you've pumped enormously less energy into heating it? Ionized gas. The 'stun' mode is apparently some type of non-lethal electrical shock, like a wireless taser. Of course, this makes no sense according to real science, but virtually nothing else in these movies does either, so its good enough for fiction.
    • Who said the stun setting was the same weapon as the blaster's lethal setting? The blaster could have simply had a secondary firing mode, like a high-tech equivalent of the underbarrel M203 grenade launcher on an M4 or M16.
    • Indeed. I had always assumed that "kill" and "stun" were not so much settings as completely different weapons occupying the same housing. They certainly look different. In fact, the real question is, why do stormtroopers ever use any setting besides "stun"? It looks like it would be much easier to just hit everyone with those big blue circles and then slit their throats at one's leisure.
      • But they're like two or three inches wide, and we don't know if they work through armour. They shot at the screen, remember? That's why they looked so big.
      • NOTE: Stun does not work through armor. It also doesn't work on anything much larger than a Human, as it takes two to three shots to take down a Wookiee.
  • "Return of the Jedi" was to be the last movie which involved Luke, Han and Leia - the trilogy's resolution could have been anything. There was a precedent for Luke and Leia becoming romantically involved, in both previous movies. There was absolutely no reason why Leia having Jedi powers would mean she had to be related to Luke (this also had precedent in The Empire Strikes Back when Leia hears Luke calling to her - the same film where they had their big snog). And Harrison Ford wanted Han to be killed off. So why why why WHY WHY did they decide to pair off Leia with Han and clumsily resolve the love triangle by making Luke Leia's brother? (And don't say "That's how Lucas always envisioned it", because that's crap and everyone knows it.)
    • So what if Ford wanted Han to get killed off? He's not the writer, director, or producer, so he doesn't decide what happens.
    • Convenience. Give the trilogy a sense of an actual ending.
    • I don't know about the brother and sister thing, but it's pretty clear that Leia and Han were set up from the beginning. In Star Wars it takes a backseat, but it's pretty obvious that Luke's interest in Leia was purely the fact that she was a hottie while Han's interest was more in the fact that he likes bitchy women. Come Empire Strikes Back, there may have been off-screen romance between Luke and Leia, but what we actually see is Han and Leia flirting left and right (the big snog, as you put it, was a moment of Leia spiting Han). And then they "pair off" in Cloud City, Leia admitting she loves Han. Imagine a Return of the Jedi where your idea is put into place: Han's dead, Luke and Leia are fucking over his corpse. We have another Secret Tacked On Origin Story wherein we find out that Leia's parents were sekrit Jedi who ran away to Alderaan or whatever. Vader's "If you don't turn evil, maybe your sister will," becomes a far less effective, "If you don't become evil, maybe your girlfriend will." Lucas' handling was clumsy not because it was a bad idea, but because he's George Lucas, and has to do one thing wrong.
      • Only one thing?
    • Also, originilaty and unpredictability. It may look ridiculous today, but the way story was handled back then was a refreshment. In fact, this troper came across an article in an old SF magazine, published between ep 4 and 5, where the author was dismissing Star Wars as a same old story, where Luke will end up with the princess, kill the big bad Darth Vader and save the world.
    • In this troper's view, some of it is retcon. Traditionally, the hero gets the princess. I suspect initally, Darth Vader was always Luke's Father (the name * means* Dark Father after all), but Leia was not originally written as Luke's sister. As originally written, Leia would have fallen for Luke (remember the kiss, "just for luck" in ANH?) but this was changed for Empire.
      • Darth Vader does not mean "Dark Father." It just sounds like it does. Nobody's quite sure where "Darth" came from, but "Vader" clearly goes along with the Sith naming theme. (That is, take some malevolent-sounding or meaningful word, and if you feel like it chop either the beginning or end off. Invader—>Vader.) Originally, Darth Vader may have been a name instead of a title and the equivalent of a pen name, who knows.
      • "Vader" is dutch for "Father" So it's pretty clear that was intentional.
      • George Lucas isn't Dutch. It's a coincidence. Deal with it.
      • Given that it is similar in many languages (Vader/Father/Pater... spelling is different but the root is the same) it is unlikely
      • Because, obviously, one must be Dutch to name one's characters using Dutch words.
      • Setting up Han/Leia as much as they did in Empire Strikes Back and not having them get together in Rot J would've been an immense letdown. It may have been ambiguous which one was the official ship in ANH, but by ESB it was obvious.
      • George Lucas will go to his grave claiming that Vader was intended to be Lukes father from the beginning. But the whole "true from a certain perspective"-cop out and the fact that it wasn't in the first script for ESB points in a different direction. (also, vader is the dutch spelling for father, but the pronunciation is way different)
    • Given the hints dropped all over the place in Episode IV, I'm shocked that more people at the time didn't guess he was his father. We explain all about this on the WMG page. If it wasn't in the original script, that just means that Lucas wasn't originally going to reveal it until later. Which would have been the better choice, since it wouldn't have resulted in yet one more three-year cliffhanger piled atop many already. But it's no use: the fans decided long ago never to believe a word Lucas says about anything, no matter how many reasons there are to do so. If he publicly says his intention all along was that the films were take place in outer space with a war, the fanbase will immediately make up their minds that Star Wars was originally supposed to be a romantic comedy, and no power in heaven or earth will ever dissuade them.
  • Why is Obi-Wan such a shitty detective? Shouldn't Jedi have a better understanding of "motives"? In "Attack of the Clones" he states that there seems to be no motive for the Kaminoans to kill Padme. Well, they were offered a shit load of money to create an army for the Republic. And she was speaking out against the creation of such an army. If she managed to convince everyone then the Kaminoans would just have to kiss all that money goodbye. Not to mention all that they already spent creating all those clones. Seems like a perfect motive for murder to me.
    • I would imagine that most Jedi would have absolutely crap detective skills considering they're raised as monks.
      • So, what, they enforce peace and justice throughout the galaxy handing out traffic tickets?
      • That and stabbing people.
    • Hadn't they already been paid for the army?
      • Yes, but if there's one thing a defense contractor loves more than getting paid huge sums of money to build something, it's getting paid huge sums of money to build even more of it after they've already worked the bugs out of production.
    • "No motive" could have been shorthand for Obi-Wan saying that he sensed no motive there... reasonably enough, as the Kamionans are being entirely open with him. After arriving, he almost instantly fixes on the one person on the planet who's hiding something and is worth interrogating. Jedi aren't necessarily trained in detective work because they can achieve similar results through pure instinct, with their weak area being cases where everybody's guilty - such as politics.
    • Getting back to the main point, it wasn't actually the Kaminoans who placed the bounty, it was Dooku (in order to get the Trade Federation into the CIS), Kamino was just where Fett happened to be staying.
    • Plus, the Kaminoans don't really seem to even know what's going on with the Senate, or the Jedi. As far as they know the Republic is all set to get its new army and everyone's happy.
  • Uncle Owen wasn't exactly Uncle Vernon and Aunt Beru definitely wasn't Aunt Petunia. There was never any doubt that Owen and Beru loved Luke as if he was their own: that's the entire reason Owen didn't want Luke going off to the Academy and getting his ass either caught by the Empire or killed in some stupid battle. Why is it that Luke, this bastion of light and goodness, mourns the only mother and father he's ever known for all of five seconds before joining Obi-Wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade? It seems like they're never mentioned again, either.
    • He only went on the damn fool idealistic crusade because his aunt and uncle were dead.
      • Yes, but again, he never mentions them. Not even a throwaway line about how he's going to get the Empire for Owen and Beru so Obi-Wan can chide him about revenge. Vader doesn't tease him about the fact that his aunt and uncle died because he was stupid enough to let the astromech droid run off. Hell, he could have just sold the moisture farm while he was looking for money: he was their only living heir. It's not like they knew that they had to be there the day of. It just bugs me that they were a plot device to keep Luke on Tatooine for five extra minutes.
      • Vader wouldn't have taunted Luke about Beru and Owen because he didn't know about Beru and Owen. He had nothing to do personally with killing them; he doesn't know that the daring young pilot who destroyed the Death Star has any connection with some random couple who was killed for resisting arrest on Tatooine. If he did, he would've instantly known their nephew Luke was his son, given that Anakin * met* Owen and Beru and knows that Owen is his only living (step)sibling.
      • Also, this troper really doesn't think everything needs to be mentioned explicitly in order to have been given due weight in the story. Luke looks tragic and burdened when he sees the corpses of Owen and Beru; he is clearly burdened and sad a lot afterwards; he is clearly terrified of loss, and deeply, even irrationally protective of the only family he has left. The death of Owen and Beru is an obvious factor in this subtext, and it would not be improved by being stated as text.
      • Basically, there's no accounting for taste. This troper finds most bombastic expressions of grief in popular movies to be [[Narm]]ful. This troper, for instance, would've preferred if the vast majority of Harry's violent protestations of awful grief about Sirius Black had gone unsaid, and thought the brief moment of deep sadness followed by stern resolution to do what needs to be done is how tragic deaths should be handled more often.
      • Especially since Luke lives in one of the most violent and dangerous places in the galaxy, and has probably known people who've died of exposure, of wild animal attacks or of Tusken raids since he was a child. This doesn't diminish the grief he feels when he loses his own parents; it does mean he's less likely to feel the need to pour out his grief on everyone around him. (This troper found the badass Spartan warrior who breaks out into hysterical shrieking tears when his son dies in Three Hundred to be ultimate [[Narm]].)
      • I'm afraid all the opinions about Luke's [[Narm]]y or not so-[[Narm]]y reaction to Beru and Owen's violent death are invalid so long as those expressing those opinions have never had a parent or sibling or child die a violent death - especially, a violent death for which the opinionizer feels somewhat responsible, as does Luke. This Troper had has close relatives die and, at the time, I cried out in shock and pain and rage. Other times, I was too much in shock to do anything but just walk away. Nobody know how they will react to that kind of stress.
      • Luke also might have thrown his lot in with Obi-Wan as a reaction to their deaths, that was how he handled it, he moved onto the next thing. That way he didn't have to contemplate it. While I doubt it was explored Luke probably spent a fair amount of time reflecting on it later, and possibly grieving then.
      • We don't know how long it took Luke to get back to the farm in his landspeeder. He may have gotten the hissy-fits out of his system while en route, worrying about what he was going to find and blaming himself for not being home to help, whatever the outcome. He might even have subconsciously sensed their deaths along the way, via the Force, and been bracing himself for the awful truth. Either way, by the time Luke found their bodies, he'd already expended much of his overt grief, and was more numbed than frantic.
      • Harry might have been Wangsty after Sirius' death, but you have to consider he was 15 or 16, a teenager in puberty who has lost his godfather after just finding him and several other stones on his shoulder. Luke was 19 and he had a pretty carefree life until this point.
      • It also needs to be noted that Empire and Return take place a few YEARS after Hope, and that it's entirely possible that Luke spent a good part of those three years actually dealing with the grief. Sure, the EU might not say anything, but at least in the context of the movies it works.
      • Having lost someone recently (although it was not so-called tragic death) I can say that at least in some cases it remains... well unsound (and it is not something you would put in prose or drama).
  • The Empire is not very efficient. Why build the expensive Death Star to blow up a planet when a cheaper decomissioned star destoyer can be used as a relativistic bomb to do the job cheaper, considering that the ships can reach 99% light-speed in two seconds.
    • Planetary shields. Big ones that cover planets. Protects them from attacks, see. Also, interception fleets which can just as easily decelerate said Star Destroyer. The Death Star is designed to take down heavily fortified planets that have shields that take the efforts of entire fleets of ships to batter down. It's also much more powerful than any relativistic kill-slug, by several dozen orders of magnitude.
      • Or, totalitarian dictatorships suck. Without wanting to invoke Godwin's Law, Hitler had a similar problem, constantly dreaming up new "secret weapons" to win the war such as the V2. If he had spent that money on just training and equipping his military better, things might have gone rather differently. The Emperor echoes that egotistical streak. It's not enough to just have a competent military force, his ego requires him to possess a colossal gun he can kill things with. And that's why he lost.
      • Well to be fair a lot of the secret wonder weapons revolutionized warfare when the technology matured. Yes, the V2 was stupid, but it was the precursor to modern ballistic missiles and had the Nazi nuclear program not fizzled it may have even been able to rain nuclear death on London (and Hitler would've totally done it, too). The Nazis were way ahead of everybody else in a lot of other areas as well, cruise missiles, jet aircraft, various guided missiles, assault rifles, night vision... I've heard quite a few historians and veterans express the opinion that had the Nazis been able to prolong the war for a few more months, they could've mass-produced these and made quite a spectacular comeback. Same thing with the Death Stars, it was a terrific weapon but nobody really knew how to handle it. The first one was lost not because of its technical inadequacy but because of the overconfidence of Tarkin, who stubbornly refused to defend it in any way - the few imperial fighters that took part in the battle were launched by Vader, who was apparently the only person on board who had a clue. And the second one would've been pretty much invincible, had the Emperor actually finished it and used it as a weapon instead of vulnerable bait. But since he thought it a good idea to lead the entire rebel fleet right to it while its reactor core was still exposed enough so that even a space freighter could fly right in...
    • Yeah, planetary shields. Given that even the Executor's shield was able to withstand the impact of not one but three IS Ds travelling at relativistic speeds, I'd say it'd take an entire armada to penetrate a planetary shield in this way. That said, given that the Empire has the technology to move objects the size of small moons, one can't help but wonder why don't they just use, you know, moons for this.
      • It's probably an engineering problem. The Death Star is designed from the ground up to be accelerated by engines. Moons... aren't. The forces involved are quite huge. The engines could be driven into the moon itself because the ground can't take the force... stuff like that. If you can reinforce a moon enough to accelerate it easily, it would probably be easier just to build a Death Star.
      • Since when can a ship even as big as the Executor take 3 IS Ds at relativistic speeds (your link's broken)?
    • The shields were probably invented by Bao-Dur during the recovery of Telos to prevent it from being destroyed a second time.
    • Tarkin explicitly states that the Death Star is for intimidation purposes - a gigantic, moon-sized space station is pretty damn terrifying. In the EU, the idea of ruling through the fear of force rather than through force itself is called the Tarkin Doctrine, and the Death Star is the textbook example.
  • Humans living in a galaxy far, far away in the past! This sounds silly, it should have been set in the distant future.
    • No it shouldn't. In the distant future, you need at least some realism. But in a galaxy far far away, you can easily have magic and a several thousand year old Republic.
    • Of course, there is the alternative interpretation. It's not literally a long time ago in a galaxy far far away, that is simply a twist on the old way of starting fairy tales, once upon a time in a distant land. In other words, sometime in say the 30th century, these are the magical tales.
    • All this about one line in the opening sequence which is just there to set tone... anyway, are you really complaining about lack of realism in a movie series that is based on old camp scifi? Star Wars is not a hard sci-fi series. Like, at all. People who complain about the movies based on 'bad science' make me laugh, because your average Hollywood movie, be it fantasy or 'realistic', will have lots of scientific and realism errors as well. Any sci-fi show with FTL is breaking several important laws of physics anyway. The only important thing in a show is consistency.
    • Actually, there was going to be a tie-in novel that would investigate the origin of the human species and how literal the "long time ago" is; Robert J. Sawyer's Alien Exodus would basically be one giant George Lucas homage crossover fic. Basically the humans originate from a dystopian future Earth (the Earth depicted in Lucas' THX-1138) and escaped the solar system in a colony ship that somehow got sucked into a wormhole that sent them into the past in a galaxy far away. Along the way we find out the protagonist, Luke Skywalker's ancestor, is the descendant of the kid in American Graffiti, that Willow took place in the prehistoric past of the planet Corellia, etc. . The unpublished manuscript of this book is of interest to Star Wars EU fans mainly in how hard it contradicts what's been established as canon since then.
    • It bears pointing out that nothing about the basic conceit of the former work is impossible in current canon. The origin of the Human species is deliberately kept unknown, "lost to the distant past", in the Star Wars EU canon. Most people seem to assume the Human homeworld is Coruscant (which is clearly not Earth), but the EU itself provides plenty of evidence that this isn't true (prehistoric paintings of the ancient Coruscant natives, the Zhell, are clearly * not* humans, Coruscant is naturally colder than is comfortable for humans, there's evidence that humans were transported as slaves from a very faraway place by the Rakatan Empire in prehistoric times, etc.)
      • Knights Of The Old Republic advances a rumor that Tatooine is the progenitor world for humans. Revealing this implication to the Sand People can get you killed (or exp ), however. The game goes on to make the point that Tatooine wasn't always a Desert Planet, but diverse and lush. Obviously, it's not Earth, because it's a Galaxy far, far away, but it is at least interesting to point out that both planets are relatively similar in their location of the Galaxy IIRC. From my understanding, the rumor that Tatooine is the progenitor world isn't taken seriously because it comes from implications during a recitation of a secret oral history.
    • Those technologies can exist in the distant past simply because these civilizations are a great deal older than ours. They got a head start. Probably earth didn't even exist yet, but the civilizations of these planets had been around for untold ages, giving them ample time to reach these wondrous levels of scientific advancement.
  • Star Wars forgot that laser guns do not have recoil! Laser swords do not parry or block other laser swords. The laser blades will pass through each other instead.
    • They aren't actually lasers. In fact, they aren't even called lasers in the movies. There are things called turbolasers, and they have recoil, yes, but the shooty things are called blaster rifles. Complaining about names is stupid anyway. Do you know why rifles were originally called rifles? Because they have a helical groove cut into the barrel. Do you really think they rifle energy weapons? Anyway blaster bolts are quite variable in terms of speed, in some scenes they move at the same speed as bullets as well.
    • Blasters. Are. Not. Lasers. Lightsabers. Are. Not. Lasers. Any idiot who has even the slightest bit of education as to the properties of lasers should know from simply looking at the weapons' behavior that they aren't lasers.
      • Any idiot who has read the book can see the word LASER written to describe these weapons. Unless said idiot CAN'T READ.
      • And any idiot who has observed the properties of the weapon in action will tell you that they aren't lasers. And any idiot who's read any of the in-universe technical information on the weapons will know that they aren't firing lasers. And any idiot should be able to tell that when something is referred to offhand as a "laser" but clearly isn't firing lasers, that said offhand designation is obviously a colloquial term or slang. Kind of how they don't serve food on the sensor dish, or how blaster rifles don't fire bullets and lack rifling of any sort.
      • It's interesting the philosophical differences in how people approach science fiction. A lot can be said about the fundamental divide between people who look at a zap-gun and say "Real lasers don't work like that, so this story is Wrong" vs. people who look at a zap-gun and say "Real lasers don't work like that, so obviously zap-guns aren't lasers, but something else".
      • Vs "I don't care how it works - I still want one."
      • At least a part of this can be traced back to subtitles in countries where English is not the main language. These subtitles will often translate "blaster rifle" and "lightsaber" into the local equivalents of "laser gun" and "laser sword".
      • The Star Wars universe treats "laser" as basically synonymous to "raygun". The Death Star superlaser, according to Death Star, is closer to a giant mass-energy converter than to any kind of laser (although the first hints of this came in the movie, when the beams converge to a point rather than just shooting out straight).
      • Well I don't think I can say anything that hasn't already been said, but stormtroopers are armed with 'blaster rifles', which could be considered a bit dumb considering they not only aren't rifled, they don't even fire projectiles. Weapon names are maleable in sci-fi, as tend to be the laws of physics.
    • Oh for Pete's sake. It's an artifact of language not a literal description. Have you ever seen a "blueprint"? I'll bet you haven't. You've probably seen large technical diagrams that may or may not have been printed on blue paper, but you haven't seen an actual "blueprint" because ''they don't exist anymore''. I suppose by your logic we are forced to assume that anyone who uses the word "blueprint" to refer to a simple technical drawing is a scientific ignoramus rather than the far more rational assumption that certain words have grown to encompass multiple meanings.
  • Ion drives can not reach relativistic speeds, and the Millenium Falcon is powered by an ion drive. Ion drives do not function well in a gravity well, they cannot even leave a planet's surface. And why do the ships in Star Wars lack delta-v? Also, all this "I can't shake 'em" crap during the space battles is utter horseshit. The starfighter can simply pivot and blast their pursuer...talk about crap fighter pilots.
    • You know, nowhere in the films are they actually called ion drives. They're actually identified as such only in the Expanded Universe, so it's rather superfluous to blame George Lucas for them. Secondly, what about it? Names are meaningless anyway.
      • They are called Ion Drives in the books, comics and all the other EU crap.
      • It's kind of annoying to hear someone talking about "ion drives" as though that's a category of drives that all work the same way because of being "ion drives". An "ion drive" just means some kind of drive that involves ions in some way — probably using ions as reaction mass, sure, but there is absolutely zero reason to think that the same constraints apply to them as apply to the ion drives we might be able to build now, in real life. (Almost every limitation of modern-day "ion drives" has to do with power limitations and the limitations of how efficiently we can generate magnetic fields. The fact that it's hard for us to deliver enough much power in a compact package or to maintain a stable enough magnetic field is why you can't blast off from a planet with an ion drive and they're currently being considered, in our world, for outer-space navigation only. There is no reason at all to think that the technology of a universe with FTL drives is not thousands or millions of times superior to ours in both of these respects.)
    • And while they are pivoting around to blast their purser, the pursuer shoots them in the second it takes the fighter pilot to come around. Unless you're seriously going to suggest they don't level out and cut their thrust so they can pivot in place, because that's a surefire way to go flying wildly out of control.
    • "Ion drives." This is the same setitng that calls a magnetically contained arc of plasma a "lightsaber," a gas-powered energy weapon that fires bolts of coherent energy with significant kinetic force "turbolasers" and an energy weapon that lacks any rifling a "blaster rifle." Its pretty damn obvious that whatever they're calling an "ion drive" is, it isn't a conventional ion drive as we know it.
      • Minor nitpick: lightsabers are not magnetically contained arcs of plasma, that's just bizarrely widespread speculation about how one would go about making something with an identical effect with anything close to resembling current technology. The actual, even more ridiculous explanation, is that the beam is actually a loop so close to itself it appears as one solid entity, and it will do anything (ie - cut through stuff by eroding it rapidly via friction) to complete the loop, thus no containment of any kind is required.
      • Protesting that the Falcon's ion drive should be able to reach "relativistic speeds" is wrongheaded anyway. The Falcon never flies to "relativistic speeds" through normal, non-space-and-time-bending means, which is good because it means we don't have to deal with time dilation effects or the insane degree of acceleration it would have to survive or the basic fact that even at relativistic speeds (which cannot exceed C) traveling from the "rim" of the galaxy to the "core" would take millions of human lifetimes. What the Falcon does is travel to an area of space where it's safe to use "hyperdrive" and then enter "hyperspace". Whatever technology does this is obviously Applied Phlebotinum and talking about how the hyperdrive interacts with the non-hyper-"ion drive" is going to just be baseless speculation.
      • Except Han tells Obi Wan kenobi that "the Falcon can go PAST .5 light speed", unless Han was just bragging to make a sale. (he also forgot that a parsec is a measure of distance and not time).
      • ".5" is a measurement of hyperdrive speed. Most high-end hyperdrives only go up to .4 or .45, so a .5 hyperdrive is ludicriously fast.
      • Ahem, ".5 past lightspeed" actually meant a hyperdrive rating of .5, which means it takes 1/2 the time the standard class 1 hyperdrive would to travel the same distance. Just to be clear, most ships have a class 20 or so backup hyperdrive. And a class .5 is highly illegal under Imperial regulations. And about the "parsec" thing, Han set both the shortest time and distance records for the Kessel run. And was rather surprised by the records when he reviewed them after the run. And then immediately started bragging about it to make a sale. So both interpretations are right.
      • Also also, the less parsecs you make the "Kessel Run" in, the closer you traveled to the Maw, which would lend you a reputation of being reckless.
      • Everyone chill, The fact of the matter is that the series mangles almost every sciency word and concept they get their hands on, so arguing about it is useless.
  • Okay, why is force lightning considered a dark side power? I really don't see how manipulating electricity is some great sin while telekinesis gets a free pass.
    • Force Lightning doesn't just involve using electricity; it involves channeling your anger and emotions into a direct assault with the Force, that takes on the form of electricity. Basically, you RAGE someone to death, and that rage appears in the form of lightning.
      • It's also not inherently stronger than telekinesis. Any one who equals you in mastery of the Force can absorb or redirect it as they see fit. Also, while telekinesis can be used to redirect or block attacks, or hold somebody, all lightning does is blow things up. Which telekinesis is 'also'' capable of doing just fine, as Vader demonstrated in the end of Revenge Of The Sith. It's how you use it.
      • There's also the fact that telekinesis can be used as much to protect and help as it can be used to harm, i.e. Yoda using it to protect Anakin and Obi-Wan from falling debris. There's not a whole lot you can do beneficially with bolts of hate-lightning.
      • How about power a few city blocks? I'm picturing a power station staffed by a few hundred Sith right now. Really, no Force power is inherently good or evil, it's just how creative you can be when coming up with an application.
      • We have little to no indication that force-lightning works the same way as regular electricity (no indication in the movies, that is.)
      • Force Lightning is not actual electricity: it is pure Force power manifested (through hatred, et cetera) as deadly forking bolts that look like electricity, hence the name. Look at it this way: if the Force is the life-giving universal energy field, then when using Force Lightning you are essentially shooting your life force at people to kill/torture them. Pretty nasty, and clear that it's a Bad Thing To Do. That said, if I remember correctly Dooku used a modified type of Lightning as a Magic Defibrillator to keep Grievous alive when he was getting cyborg'd. Durn EU.
      • There actually is a Light-side version of Force Lightning, it's called Electric Judgmement or Emerald Sparks. You can look it up on Wookieepedia. It's just very rare(only Plo Kloon and Luke Skywalker have been known to use it) and it's very controversial amongst the New Jedi Order because of it's obvious similarities to Dark Side Lightning.
    • Because the Jedi said so. And if the Jedi have a fault, it's their extreme dogmatism. When Yoda teaches stuff to Luke, he refuses to explain himself, firm on the position that his teachings must be taken as is. This is the kind of thinking that leads to certain things being considered "evil" without anyone wondering why.
    • EU aside, the films themselves never quite establish that force lightning is purely a dark side thing. We only ever see Sith do it, sure, but just two of them anyway. I guess you could argue that the implication is there but it's never really etched in stone.
  • How in Katarn's name does Leia manage to remember her real mother, Padme? I'm like 2/3 her age by Rot J, and I can't remember stuff that happened when I was 5, let alone when I had only just been born.
    • There's lots of speculation, and it's never explicitly confirmed (if it is, then I've not seen it). But general consensus is (how do I explain this) some sort of Force imprint (she saw Padmé's face for like several seconds as a newborn, and somehow her Force connection allowed her to unconsciously imprint the memory in her brain).
    • Simple: Leia didn't remember her real mother, Padme. She grew up believing she was the daughter of Senator Organa and his wife, and she still believes that when she says she remembers her "mother;" she's never before then (or even after then) given any reason to believe Organa's wife wasn't her mother. So, when she says she remembers her mother, she simply remembers seeing the face of Senator Organa's wife before she died. Easy as that.
      • And that's the theory I subscribe to.
      • Erm... no. Luke clearly asks her, 'Do your remember your mother? Your REAL mother?', the emphasis on 'real mother' suggesting that Leia knew perfectly well the Organas adopted her, and that she is in fact talking about Padme.
      • Maybe Leia assumes Luke thinks she was adopted or something. Or maybe Leia's adopted mother died early in Leia's life and her adopted father married again. This would explain why Leia only remembers feelings and images. Or maybe Leia just thought Luke was being redundant.
      • Or, just possibly, Leia had seen pictures or video of Padme Amidala. Padme and Bail were about the closest friends two members of the Galactic Senate could be, so he would have probably kept a few pictures of her. After all, it was pretty well established that Breha Organa (Senator Bail Organa's wife) could not have children, which was why they wanted to adopt. Leia probably knew she was adopted, and may have seen pictures or recordings of her real mother.
      • Except the EU confirms that neither of them had any idea who their real mother was. Padme was one of multiple possiblilities they considered and they didn't think it was a likely one. Even if Leia had seen images of Padme growing up, her memories of her still weren't clear enough to recognize her on sight, and Bail wouldn't have told her about their connection.
      • I answered this already on the Wall Banger page. Short version: either she only thinks she remembers her (for various possible reasons—full explanation over there), the force allots her super-memory, or George Lucas just changed his mind about Padme dying in childbirth and fucked up and neglected to revise that scene from Jedi to reflect it.
    • Maybe the Organas wanted to ensure Vader never figured out who Leia really was, so they paid some mother-to-be to claim she was Leia's real mother. If they'd already been looking to adopt a kid, they might have already contacted such a woman: they give her enough money so she can afford to keep her own child after all, and she supports the pretense that she'd borne twins, but given one of them (Leia) up to Bail and his wife. She visits a few times to sustain the "open adoption" story, and Leia grows up believing that she's her biological mom.
  • Just a minor point, but how does Grievous talk, exactly? I don't know how much, if any of his throat is there, and he doesn't have a mouth. So...what separates his speech from his thoughts? And how does the built-in comlink factor in?
    • He's got a speaker grill. As for how the virtualization works, the details don't matter. It's not like you have to wonder about separating thought and speech normally. He is moving his robotic limbs about extremely dexterously, it shouldn't be too hard for them to fit in a "turn com-link on-off" switch.
  • Going to confront Palpatine, Mace Windu refuses to bring Anakin. Regardless of Anakin's mental state, if you're going to try to destroy the last Sith (or going into a confrontation where you may have to), wouldn't it make sense to bring the guy prophesied to do just that?
    • At this point, most of the Jedi Council is not fully convinced that Anakin is the chosen one. Anakin's own mental confusion is probably reinforcing Mace's own belief that he might not be the one destined to destroy the Sith.
      • In addition, Anakin was not a fit mental state to be of much use in any battle (what with him believing Palpatine could save Padmé and all), plus the prophecy is open to interpretation. It's possible that Mace saw Anakin's role in destroying the Sith simply as being the one to figure out who the Sith Lord was. While he wouldn't have delivered the killing blow personally, he would have been the catalyst that have led to the end of the Sith.
  • Okay, how does Grievous cough? If he's got no throat and lungs, and he's just using a speaker, why does he cough? Habit? Or does he have a Ultravoice (whatever than thing for people who've had their larynxes removed is)?
    • He has lungs, they're protected by a special flesh-sac underneath the cyborg armor.
  • Lightsabers: Nigh-unstoppable blades of intense energy which are practically a critical hit against any body part they touch. By the time Episode I rolls around, they have been around for 15,000 years, and an enormous amount of knowledge has been accumulated about their construction and usage. Customizations have cropped up, and fighting techniques have been refined. Yet in that entire timespan, it would appear that nobody ever thought to put some kind of cross-guard on them to protect their hands, either as an extension of the blade or out of some lightsaber-resistant alloy (Cortosis, Phrek, Mandalorian Iron, etc.). There's a chance that Luke could have kept his hand if he had had some sort of hilt and had learned to use it. It also bugs me how they swing these blades like they were golf clubs when rapier-fighting techniques would be so much more efficient and appropriate. Of course I realize that it's just "Hollywood Fencing" (where you have people swinging rapiers like Katanas or machetes because it looks cooler than actual fencing techniques) taken to its extreme, but it still bugs me. Especially since so much attention has been given in the EU to the various lightsaber combat-forms, and yet not one of them reflects the most feasible 1-on-1 technique, which involves little or no swinging; merely thrusting and parrying.
    • In regards to fencing style, I thought Makashi relied a lot on parrying and jabbing. As for cortosis, in Jedi Outcast, Luke claims the material is very rare. In the KotOR era of course, every sword has a cortosis weave, so it must have been in higher quantities at the time. I'd be willing to bet that it was adapted into armour as well, considering so many enemies in the game can take hits with a sabre and still stand.
    • Makashi bugs me for a number of reasons. It's supposedly the best way to prevent an opponent from destroying your lightsaber while you are wielding it. However, if it is the most similar to conventional fencing, with focus on parrying and thrusts, it would actually be more vulnerable than any other saber form, considering the longer amount of time that the blades would be in contact, and the fact that lightsabers (as stated above) do not have cross-guards. In a duel between two Makashi users, the objective would be to have better control over your enemy's lightsaber than he has over yours, which is achieved through basic leverage, controlling his foible (top part of the blade) with your forte (lower part of the blade). However, with lightsabers, using your forte would place too great a risk on the destruction of your lightsaber without some kind of a crossguard, which is why I find it absolutely mind-boggling that nobody ever figured out how to make one.
      • Lightsaber blades seem to bind against each other rather tightly when they come into contact; a crossguard might be unnecessary.
      • Also, the lightsaber blade is hot; the fact that it doesn't crisp the user's hands suggests that something is stopping heat from radiating from the blade to the hand. Maybe there's some sort of force field at the base of the blade that stops lightsabers but isn't very visible.
      • Lightsabers only get hot when they're cutting things. The rest of the time, no energy is lost.
      • Because the second law of thermodynamics is for losers.
      • Lightsabers are not hot. The blade is a tight loop that curves back so close to itself it appears to be one solid beam of energy. The loop really wants to finish, so it removes solid matter getting in the way by eroding it extremly rapidly through lots of friction, and the friction is what produces heat. This is why a flick of the wrist will cut small or light objects but it takes time to cut through solid metal doors. The real problem is that the heat generated by the friction is still ludicrous, and, say, Qui-Gon shouldn't have been able to hold his hilt right up to the door he was cutting in TPM.
      • Actually, lightsabers ARE hot. And also cool. But still operate on bullshitium.
      • There are force techniques for blocking temperature extremes, Absorb/Dissapate Energy, Force Armor, Force Aura, etc. It's not hard to believe that a Master like Qui-gon would be capable of using one without any trouble or making a big deal out of it.
      • Makashi also bugs me because it is supposed to be weak against the more strength-dependent forms, like Djem So. While it is true that a Makashi user would have trouble blocking stronger lightsaber blows, the fact is that they shouldn't need to. For a style so devoted to speed and agility, it seems that precious few Makashi masters are familiar with the concept of "Attack of Opportunity." Strength-dependent styles create openings that a decent Makashi user could cut through like butter, since Makashi wielders do not have to draw their weapons backwards in preparation for a strike. Yet Makashi wielders are always depicted as politely waiting for an attack to get close to them before reacting to it, rather than striking when the attack poses no threat to them and their opponent's defense is down. This is particularly confusing when the opponent raises their blade over their head, while the Makashi wielder simply ignores the fact that their opponent's entire body is left undefended in preparation for an attack that will pose no threat to them if they kill their opponent before it is launched.
      • What bugs me is that Makashi is a fancy name for: "Christopher Lee refused to put up with the absurd fighting styles we made up for the lightsaber and decided to just use the damn thing like a fencer."
      • Uh, that's because Chrisopher Lee is old. His arms work fine, but his legs don't, so he can't fight using the more athletic styles used by other characters and thus uses the sword as a fencing saber.
    • Sabres are not rapiers. Rapiers are thrusting weapons. Lightsabres are capable of slicing people's arms or other bits off, therefore it makes perfect sense to use them to slash rather than thrust, using the whole length of the blade rather than just the point. In Real Life sports fencing, sabre allows for slashing, unlike foil or epée.
      • Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Slashing would probably be the better method for fighting multiple enemies, and of course in mounted combat it is the only practical strategy, but in 1-on-1 duels it just doesn't make much sense. You have to draw the sword back before you can slash it, whereas thrusting is a single move, always ready to take advantage of any gap in the opponent's defense (like, say, drawing their sword away from them in preparation for a slash). Sure, you can't cut off any limbs, but why bother when their torso is left wide open? (Also, "Real Life sports fencing" is a bit of an oxymoron to this SCA martial-arts fencer)
      • You don't have to pull back on the lightsaber's blade to slash with it. Remember, the lightsaber deals damage on contact, not due to weight and inertia, so a flick of a wrist and a light touch with the blade can do as much damage as a two-handed swing.
      • I recall reading in a canon star wars equipment book that a core attribute of a lightsabre was a strong, gyroscopic like effect. Maybe this limits the range of effective techniques down to the 'swing 'n smash' we see in the movies/games?
    • In regards to the cross beam, why would they want one? They use the force. They don't have to worry about the lightsaber slipping and cutting themselves, and in the movies the lightsabers always seem to catch on one another. It wouldn't have helped Luke, either, as Vader twirls his saber aside, draws back and then slices his hand, not sliding down the blade to his hand.
    • "It also bugs me how they swing these blades like they were golf clubs when rapier-fighting techniques would be so much more efficient and appropriate." Rapier-fighting techniques are appropriate for rapiers. Lightsabers are not rapiers. The blade of a rapier is extremely delicate and not at all appropriate for cutting and slashing. The blade of a lightsaber is ideal for cutting and slashing. The blade is extremely strong but also incredibly lightweight (in fact it has no weight at all) making quick slashing movements very easy. Using a lightsaber like a rapier would be a huge waste of its inherent potential. By this troper's reasoning, the most appropriate fighting style for a lightsaber would be something like the Chinese straight sword. The negligible weight of the lightsaber blade would be ideal for the quick spinning motions of most Jian styles (and in fact much of the choreography in the prequel movies is based on Chinese straight sword).
  • In a similar vein, after thousands of years, hasn't it occured to anyone that single-shot weapons aren't really that effective against Jedi. How come nobody ever opens up on a force wielder with a submachine gun or an RPG? Then again, Star Wars has never been big on automatic hand-held weapons.
    • They're not ineffective against Jedi. Did you see Revenge of the Sith? Do you remember the purge scenes? You may as well ask why swords are considered effective because there are some guys out there with good shields and who are quick and maneuverable with their use of them. A concentrated, sustained effort (especially when it's a sneak attack by several people at once) might not be held off by a Jedi with their deflection tactics for more than a few seconds.
    • Because blasters are standard issue across the entire galaxy, and the vast majority of soldiers, criminals, and the like will only ever be fighting other soldiers and other criminals. Comparatively speaking, Jedi are rare and can be brought down by concentrated blaster fire, gas grenades, explosives, etc, which are standard issue and are used when they have them. They're not going to waste time, money, weight, and space arming their troops with substandard, outdated gear on the off-chance that they might encounter a Jedi.
      • Outdated is a point of view, modern machine guns have rates of fire than in that universe can only be matched by big, bulky repeating blasters. Also, bullets aren't luminescent (except tracers), so at least for snipers, they're hard to track. On top of that, bullets tend to penetrate obstacles better than blasters, making possible to kill enemies behind wall without exposing yourself to fire.
      • Evidence that bullets penetrate better than blasters, when blasters have been shown to have firepower comparable to grenade launchers? There's a reason people prefer blasters: they can penetrate armor a lot better, and rate of fire isn't really that useful on an infantry scale. The primary use of squad automatic weapons is for suppression, which works on intimidation. A steady stream of bright red bolts of energy that generate small explosions with every impact is very intimidating.
      • Grenade launchers is overstating the power, they look more like shotgun explosive rounds. Also, blasters don't penetrate walls like bullets do, they blast chunks out of walls. Also, 'armour' penetration is a debatable point, survival might easily be helped by wearing some sort asbestos (it being a notable insulator) jacket underneath their armour.
      • Look at how much firepower Han's blaster puts out. It blows torso-sized chunks out of walls built to absorb the backwash from starship engines. That's easily grenade-level firepower. And regular E-11 blaster bolts still generate explosions with enough power to kill unarmored targets - again, firepower comparable with a frag grenade. And you'd need a really thick asbestos jacket to defend you from an energy weapon that transfers enough raw heat into a target to blow half-meter-wide holes in concrete.
    • Obi-wan, in the ROTS novel, blocks the fire from 10000 battle droids with his saber. Vader is able to use the Force to block Han's blaster, bare-handed. A sufficiently talented Force user would be able to a) block some of the shots with the Force b) block some of the shots with a saber and c) mind trick the guy standing next to the guy with the machine gun to shoot him.
    • Not to mention Jedi have breathing tricks to avoid being gassed and can use teleknesis to deflect missiles. And since slugthrowers are substandard weapons that couldn't hope to penetrate most types of armor, they aren't standard issue.
      • It could be a matter of Gameplay And Story Segregation, but in the video game Star Wars Battlefront II, clone commandos have shoulder-mounted machine guns. And Jedi/Sith can indeed deflect their shots with a lightsaber.
      • To throw more against the use of slugthrowers (firearms), a Jedi who knows the slug (bullet) is coming can use telekinesis to stop it.
      • Against this is the rate-of-fire machine guns have (11-15 rounds per second for the M16), so it's going to take a fair amount of concentration to stop them all. Projectiles also have a range advantage (550 metres for the M16 as opposed to 300 for the E-11), and don't visual reveal the shooter).
      • Dude, they don't need to block each bullet individually. Jedi can put up "force walls" to stop everything coming at them, within certain limits. It shouldn't be too hard for them to just have the bullets bounce away as they come.
      • And they can't penetrate SW-grade armor. And the E-11 has a five hundred shot capacity in a single power cell. And the E-11 is a carbine designed designed for close quarters combat. It's more comparable to an M4 as opposed to an M16. The M4, btw, has an effective range of, yes, 300 meters. And again, unlike an M4, when an E-11 hits a solid object, it generates an explosion that can and has killed unarmored targets.
      • Well according to the wikia, stormtrooper armour can be penetrated by armour-piercing rounds, which are currently available (copper jacket, steel penetrator)
      • Star Wars armor piercing rounds != modern armor piercing rounds. That's like comparing bronze arrowheads to chobham armor.
      • Armour-piercing explosive rounds. By that point, you're basically using more expensive blasters.
      • It's worth noting that even a DC-17 - which is the Star Wars equivilant of a submachinegun that fires ion pulse bolts, not full-power blaster bolts designed to penetrate armor and kill organics - can penetrate a meter of ferrocrete armor plating. That's firepower comparable to a modern .50 caliber machinegun, in the size of an MP 5. Blasters are way more powerful than modern firearms.
      • I just hope they've got reliability down-pat then, because with that amount of power stored in the cell, one lucky shot is going to turn it into an impromptu grenade.
      • This shows up in the EU. It takes a bit of fiddling around with the internals to make blaster clips explode.
      • Well I read 'Spectres Of The Past' once, and about the only preparation I can remember Luke doing was moving the thinkgs out some way so that he wouldn't be caught in the blast. Besides, I'd have thought a shot powerful enough to penetrate clone armour would have been powerful enough to fiddle around just about any power cell, I wouldn't say it was nuclear after all.

  • Can someone explain to me the dog fighting tactics used in the Battle of Yavin? When the star fighters were making their attack run, the one who was actually going to make the attack was supposedly being covered by his wingmates. Now, I'm not a fighter pilot, but I do know you don't cover your wingman by flying beside him. Instead, you fly well over him or behind him. So, if an enemy pilot drops onto your buddy's tail, you can drop behind the enemy fighter. In any World War II documentary, you see this. You'll see torpedo bombers making their way to their targets with friendly fighters, hovering above, ready to drop onto any enemy craft going after the bombers. In the first Death Star battle, you see nothing like this. You just see a bunch of stupid wingmen with "shoot me" written on the back of their fighters.
    • They were flying behind them. Specifically, they were flying close enough behind them to cover them with their fighters' shields. For all intents and purposes, the lead fighter's wingmen were disposable, ablative armor to protect him while he set up for his torpedo run. The wingmen couldn't hang very far back because that would let the TIEs slip inside the gap and smoke them, and they couldn't fly outside the trench overhead, because of the anti-air batteries.
      • One tactic they never seemed to use is sudden braking (yes I know it's space, but they were acting like they were in atmosphere), forcing the bad-guys to scatter or risk collision.
      • That's because any pilot who's paying attention can easily defeat that kind of tactic.
      • only by dodging, which would disrupt the pursuit, and leave the breaker in behind you. They could also have called in support (which Luke specifically offers in the book).

  • Just how exactly did Anakin go from "I must pledge myself to the Sith to save my wife." to "Kill younglings!" in under an hour or so? Even though Anakin is mentally unstable and teetering towards the Dark Side, going from troubled and angry to a mass-murderer of children isn't just Jumping Off The Slippery Slope, that's flying off it with a jet-pack. It's true that he killed the Sandpeople, but there's a big difference between slaughtering viscious warrior people who killed your mother after days of traumatic visions and killing children just because you were told to. Personally, this troper thinks it might have worked better if Anakin went to kill the Separatists first - he'd agree to do that, since they are still the enemy and it will end the war, and then by the time he came back he could be so far gone into Dark Side rage he'd kill fellow Jedi and younglings. It's still a stretch, but a more acceptable one.
    • That's the power of the Dark Side. The Dark Side corrupts, and Anakin was already heading down the slippery slope after killing the Sandpeople.
      • I don't dispute that, but the issue I have is it happening so quickly. It's more of a sudden switch being flicked rather than a fast corruption. No one can corrupt so fast than they can pledge to a Sith Lord and then be willing to kill kids as soon as he makes the short trip to the Jedi Temple.
      • It's not as if he went from shining, incorrutable hero one moment, to irredeemable scumbag the next. In the first half of the film, he's put under constant stress, being torn between his commitment to the Jedi and his loyalty to Palpatine. Also, he's being constantly haunted by dreams of Padmé's death. Then, Obi-Wan is sent off to fight Grievous, leaving Anakin with no-one to confide his problems to except Palpatine. Then he finally learns the truth of Palpatine being a Sith, and the Jedi still don't trust him enough to come along, plus if they kill him, he loses his chance to save Padmé. Then, he arrives to see Mace about to kill what seems to be a helpless old man. Anakin's attack on Mace is a split-second, instinctive reaction. He wasn't being evil when he did that, nor did he actually kill Mace. Palpatine did. But by now, he's convinced the Jedi are traitors, and even if he does want to go back, there's no way he's going to be able to explain Mace's death without them thinking he's the least bit responsible. His fall to the Darkside truly started when Palpatine put him on the council, it was Mace's death that was the straw breaking the camel's back.
  • Death sticks? Seriously, death sticks? Was the [I'm assuming it's a Hutt, they run organized crime] Hutt who named that particular illegal substance on some really, really bad spice or something? I mean, public relations and marketing, man...
    • Slang.
      • Yeah, but that doesn't sound like a "street name", like crack, pixie dust, blow, Mary Jane, LSD... all of which make the drug either no worse or sound better. It sounds like it'd, kinda, you know, push away potential customers.
      • Crack sounds like something you want to try? Absurd names are common everywhere.
    • This troper enjoys thinking up a new explanation for the name every time he hears the question. So far, his favorite theory is Celebrity Endorsement/merchandising. Deth is famous throughout the galaxy, and he only uses Deth brand nicotine sticks. Brand Name Takeover ensues.
  • So in "The Phantom Menace" we discover Naboo is ruled by Padme, a 14-year old queen. Ok, no great shock, these things can easily happen in hereditary monarchies if the parents die young. But then in the next film we discover that in fact she was elected to a limited term. Why on earth (on a planet whose inhabitants seem basically human, and that seems to have no shortage of adults) would you elect someone that age as a ruler? It all seems like a clumsy way to get everyone's ages about right and justify Leia having the title of "Princess", with a subsequent hasty retcon once the writers realised that having a hereditary monarch bemoaning the threat to democracy in later films might look a bit silly.
    • She's a politically savvy fourteen-year-old with the brains and steel spine to lead a guerilla war against an invading power and has the balls to personally lead the counter-charge into the palace to take out the enemy commander. Age is irrelevant when compared with ability, and there are very few fourteen-year-olds who can do that.
    • Yes, so few that its not very believable. That just makes it worse! But maybe this is the wrong place to complain about that.
    • Tropers, there's a simpler explanation.
    • To hopefully help clear this up, Padme had recently graduated from what basically amounts to politician boot camp when she was elected.
      • Yes, politician boot camp teaches you how to be effective with a blaster rifle and personally lead the assault on heavily fortified palaces. Damn, where can I sign up?
      • Yes, it does. Isn't that what the words "boot camp" imply? This is a universe where a planetary ruler needs to know these kinds of skills for precisely these kinds of reasons. Self defense is pretty damn important in this setting, and while Padme was taking part in the assault itself, it was pretty clear her much more experienced troops were the ones directing and commanding the assault itself.
    • Considering the get-ups she wears when she's being Queen, this troper suspects the "Queen" of Naboo is more of a ceremonial figurehead and/or diplomatic face than a ruler.
    • Can someone explain to me how a queen (hereditary ruler) can be democratically elected? Couldn't they have come up with a more believable title?
      • Since when did "queen" mean the title couldn't belong to someone who is elected?
    • Is there really no one who remembers Padme saying that she was not elected to watch her people suffer and die during her big speach to the senate in TPM? Or Palpatine introducing her as the recently elected ruler of the Naboo before said speach? Or Bibbel telling Gunray that Naboo is a democracy? Naboo's system of government was clearly established in the beginning of the prequal trilogy. It just bugs me that the remarks about about Naboo's system in AOTC is treated as some shocking Ret Con.

  • Death Star. Mobility, what? It's the size of a moon, did they just plan to dismantle it and have star destroyers tow the pieces through hyperspace to the next planet, or were they somehow able to get it up to hyperspace catapult speed while using the realspace engines? Build a new one? Wait 300,000 years between attacks? Or just let the galaxy not notice the obvious flaw while they were busy trembling in fear?
    • ...* bemused silence*
      • ...The Death Star has a hyperdrive. That is how it managed to move from Alderaan to Yavin. Perhaps you did not notice this obvious flaw in your argument while you were sleeping through the actual film.
      • I knew it was supposed to have a hyperdrive. I just don't see how that's supposed to matter, unless I grossly misunderstand how the hyperdrive functions. To summarize what I have gathered from films and (possibly non-canon) encyclopedias, the ship moves into another form of space, where it can go really fast (way past the speed of light) while using a lot less energy than in plainspace. Under certain conditions, a ship must already be moving via the sub-lightspeed engines. It doesn't matter that the Death Star can get into hyperspace, how does it move once it gets there? If there's a Critical Research Failure, it's in the understanding of how Hyperspace movement supposedly works (compounded by multiple star wars reference books).
      • Because the Death Star has sublight engines, too, maybe?
      • Death Star covers this: yes, it has sublight engines. It also has hyperdrive, fighter wings, turbolaser turrets, libraries, and bars.
      • Yeah, the Death Star has sublight engines. That was how it was able to go around Yavin.
    • Critical Research Failure detected.
    • I think a lot of the confusion is from thinking of the Death Star as a space station. In reality, the Death Star's ability to move itself around with a hyperdrive and normal sublight engines means that it's really a starship. Just a really really frikkin' huge one.
  • Why is the Sun Crusher even needed? Presumably, the resonance torpedoes work without need for an invincible ship. A conventional ship could fire the torpedoes and then escape into hyperspace. They could even fire the torpedoes at a great distance (several hundred million kilometers) and still hit the system's star.
    • It was built for killing, probably in secret, for preference. The Death Star was huge and terrifying mostly for intimidation purposes. The Sun Crusher, on the other hand, was small and unnoticeable, which is, in itself, intimidating. No one knows the Sun Crusher exists, and then when Rebel star systems start going up in smoke, they start thinking, "Shit, the Emperor can blow up stars with his mind or something!"
      • The fact that it's pretty much invincible is pretty intimidating, too.
    • If you're going to build a ship capable of setting of a supernova, you definitely want that ship to be strong enough to survive a supernova just in case it gets caught in one.
  • So The Chosen One was the one who was prophesied to bring balance to the force, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the word balance mean, having the same on both sides? I mean, you'd have to be kind of an idiot to think that balance meant that the evil side of the force would be extinguished, right? So why didn't the Jedi realize what Anakin being The Chosen One really meant?
    • Because fans continue to stubbornly insist on a dualistic understanding of the force where balance means an equal number of Jedi and Sith. It doesn't. Word Of God is that the force is Balanced when the Light and Dark are clearly segregated from each other and the Jedi can trust their force instincts to guide them correctly. The problem at the time of the prequels is that the hidden Sith have blurred everything together and left the Jedi unable to predict things, hence the constant references to the dark side as a shroud or cloud over their vision. The idea that it has "anything at all" to do with numbers of force-users is "completely unsupported" by the films and utterly idiotic if you take one minute to think about it. What are the Jedi to do then? Allow the bad guys to murder and terrorize people every other day?
      • So, basically, George Lucas used Balance when he met not balance, but purity or segregation. It is utterly defensible to assume that the author meant what he said.
      • Nope. Balance != Equal distribution of everything. Balance = Non-changing system. It's likely that the Sith were concieved of as an inherintly chaotic force and thus balance is impossible while the Sith exist (throw a random number generator into an equation and try to balance it). English is a fuzzy language with multiple definitions (balance has 10+ definitions according to webster) along with colloquial definitions that everyone thinks is the proper definition, but often has nothing to do with what's being defined.
    • Since the prophecy was presumably made by a Jedi, the balance would have to be one from the Jedi perspective, which would mean many Jedi and no Sith. The Sith probably thought that bringing balance to the Force would mean the exact opposite.
    • Personally, if the Prophecy even exists, this troper likes to think that the outcome was meant to result in the destruction of both sides: with no Sith to carry on the rule of two, the organisation dies. With no original Jedi to carry on the ancient child-kidnapping love-abolishing dogma, a better order of Jedi will be established by Luke. And this is the only way I can enjoy Star Wars these days: any other ideas?
    • This troper always interpreted "bringing balance to the Force" to mean eliminating both the Jedi and the Sith so his son can produce something new, still benevolent, but having a much less detached view of the galaxy.
    • As someone who's read hard science fiction, I'd like to suggest disbanding both sides and setting up some sort of 'Talent Agency' like in Anne Mc Caffrey's 'Pegasus' series.
    • I've always thought of the Forces as having an Aristotlian form of morality i.e. "good" is a balance between extremes of excess and deficit. So for example, courage is good, being the balance between cowardice and recklessness. The dark side of the force is based on extremes of emotion. Therefore, bringing balance to the force means removing those extremes i.e. eliminating the sith and leaving the jedi.
  • Battle of Hoth. Luke claims the armour on the AT-A Ts is too strong for blasters, thus meaning the speeders have to trip them up with cables. We see one trip up then a pair of speeders shoot it with lasers...and it blows up. So... what happened to "that armour is too strong for blasters"?
    • There's a weak spot in their armour behind their heads.
      • What, so Luke "I used to bullseye Womprats in my T-16 back home" Skywalker can't hit this spot of a huge machine that moves at about two miles per hour and has to have it come to a complete stop first?
      • First off, Luke is a dumb kid who's boasting. Second, womp rats aren't shooting back. Nor are their friends shooting back.
      • Also, in the official novelization by Lucas, right after Luke makes his "I used to bullseye womp rats" comment, Wedge's response is to thoroughly rip him on how useless that skill is in actual combat.
      • The weak spot is not exposed to any feasible approach vector. Blasters don't arc; the only way that Luke could have got a shot at the walker's weak point while it was walking was if he dived at it from directly above the walker. Which, suffice to say, would not have been very feasible.
      • Why not? There were no anti-air weapons on the thing's top or back.
      • Actually, the target he was aiming at could only be hit from the front. Where the AT-AT's blasters are located.
      • They spent most of the battle in front of the AT-AT anyway, and that still doesn't explain why they didn't just go above the plane of the AT-A Ts and shoot down, or at least fly past then tow-cable. AT-A Ts have horrible neck articulation and can't aim up, there's no reason they couldn't have flown about 2-3x as high as they were in order to dodge attacks, then swooped down and hit the weak point from above.
      • The blasters on the AT-AT's heads are mounted on swivels. They don't need great neck articulation when the blaster can just rotate up and fire. And flying up too high wouldn't give them a good shot at the AT-AT's weak point.
      • In actual fact the target is where the neck connects to the body, which would require comming in over the top of the walker and diving down (30-45 degrees seemingly). It's unconfirmed, but it seems to this troper that hitting them from behind could be a viable option as well, as the few pictures I've seen seem to represent this area as being largely unarmoured.
    • On the DVD Commentary, Irvin Kershner admitted he fudged it because explosions are cool.
    • The place the AT-AT is hit before it explodes appears to be the top of the neck/back. From the looks of things, and from how they handle in the games, the Speeders can't do the sort of dive manuever necessary to hit that sort of target while the AT-AT is standing up. Their movement seems to be fairly limited to moving laterally, and gradual climbing and diving compared to things like the X-Wing.
      • Wow, so suddenly an aircraft of the future can't handle anything like a modern one? Bull. Maybe the games can't deal with it, but I'm damn sure it'd be possible for a good pilot to make the shot, although steering through the blaster fire at the same time would be more difficult.
      • The snow speeders seem more like higher end versions of the land speeder personal vehicles than aircraft, based on how they perform. So think Humvee, not F14.
  • It just bugs me that there's so much hate/dislike for Karen Traviss, I mean I've looked at all the examples mentioning her and I still can't figure out why. Admittedly I'm a Fandalorian so I've got a natural bias...but an enqiuring mind wants to know.
    • The Mandlalorians within her work are Mary Sues. And we're not talking the exaggerated, Flanderized version bandied about the interwebs nowadays. Traviss-written Mandalorians are Mary Sues in the classic sense: perfect in every possible way.
      • There's also her refusal to change the GAR number of three million, despite how utterly ridiculous it is for three million soldiers to defend an entire galaxy.
      • It's not so much the "refusal to change" (it was an error made by George Lucas in the first place, and first reproduced by well-loved-by-Traviss-haters author Matthew Stover). It's the generally bad attitude she displayed about the whole thing — yes, in response to some trolling and baiting by fans, but the professional author and representative of the franchise should not be sinking down to the level of the worst trolls in the conversation, tossing around neologisms like "Talifan", etc. It's been made worse now that she's made it clear that what she took away from this was a deeply negative attitude toward most "normal" Star Wars fans who don't share her strongly deconstructionist take toward the Star Wars canon. (I.e. if you don't think the "correct" way to read Star Wars is to look at most of the protagonists of the prequel trilogy as terrible monsters, the Jedi Order as irredeemably corrupt and the clones as the true victims of the Star Wars universe, she hates you and doesn't want you reading her books. Like, seriously.)
      • Fiction is Serious Business. More (ahem) seriously, why does everyone feel the need to throw a complete hissy fit about it? About anything, really? It's as if people are willingly ignoring the choice to act less biased just to complain about works you don't like..
      • Reading that, you just engaged in as much of a strawman argument as she did. She's saying that those members of the fandom, people I've never met but who I assume she has, who say that the clones could be thrown away since they're not real people have problems. Fair enough. What I find startling is the willingness of people to accept the idea that, even if the Jedi Order was corrupt, that the appropriate and just solution was all of their deaths and the slaughter of innocent children. I have many problems with the pre-Luke Jedi Order, but I would have tried to convince them of that, or at least not kill every last one of them. I think the people who gravitate to her might be tired of Jedi being the only worthwhile archetype in that series, as Jedi, Force powers and lightsabers got so out of control that it was hard to really feel that smugglers or pilots or anyone else were as cool as them. The problem is when Mandalorians become just another Sue Race, but hey, better two than one.
      • So you're complaining about people complaining that they don't like something?
      • She Does Not Do The Research, and then gets defensive. I mean, Scout! Scout! I was a Traviss fangirl when I started off in fandom, because I liked the clones, but the Jerk Sue nature of her Mandalorians and her hatred of Jedi put me off. Then she started handling characters that weren't original to her, and doing it badly, which isn't surprising, since she's admitted that she doesn't read the EU. And on top of that, she's writing books that are part of series which I hate for killing characters in stupid ways.
    • The thing I can't understand about the hate for Traviss is that though her Mandos can come off as Mary-Suish, It seems to fit in character for them. Look at who she's writing about: Hand picked Mandolorians chosen by Jango Fett and clone commandos. These groups are supposedly the best of the best when it comes to war, so why wouldn't they be extremely good at everything (Thats what they were trained to do!)? The Jedi hate is also understandable, since Mandos have had a strong disliking of the Jedi for quite some time (If what I've read about the Mandalorian Wars is correct, the two of them fought one another and the Mando have ever since had a deep hatred for Jedi), not to mention it seems like very few (I have seen none at all) other writers seem to want to discuss the moral issues that come with Jedi never voicing an opinion about how using a slave army who won't be allowed to live (and won't live very long anyway) a normal life is just wrong. I should mention I'm also a fan of Mandos and may also be biased in that regard.
  • Is Palpatine an idiot of some kind? I can kind of understand why he'd want to kill all Jedi, but the younglings? It's been shown before that Dark jedi can be easily put in a group without killing each other, so why kill a bunch of young kids who have barely learned how to use the force? Why not recruit them as members of the Empire? He did that with Mara Jade! He could have had another Vader Fist to group with the 501st and the galaxy would be under his iron grip easily.
    • Rule Of Two. Only two Sith are allowed, period. Attempting to use younglings already partially indoctrinated to Jedi beliefs is a bad idea anyway, especially in a transition period between the Old Republic governments and the Empire. Better to just get rid of them and look for non-indoctrinated minds elsewhere to corrupt later once he's gotten the galaxy under control.
      • Palpatine did successfully corrupt several younger Jedi to the Dark; one of them is the Inquisitor Tremayne; the others can be found in the "Recruitment" section of the article.
      • Lucas has made it pretty clear that what is in the movies overrides the Expanded Universe.
      • And nothing in the movies suggests that Anakin killed all the Jedi younglings, only the ones he could find. If a large, evil man with a flaming energy sword stormed into your school and started cutting people in half, don't you think at least a few people would, say, run for their lives and hide?
      • Hiding isn't going to work when the guy after you can find you without having to look (he is a knight after all, and they're only younglings).
      • Original poster: The Rule of Two only says that you can only have two Sith Lords. The Rule of Two was made by Darth Bane, IIRC. Cut to the Jedi Civil War, where Revan and Malak are in cotnrol and we have a whole damn Academy for the Sith!
      • Darth Bane existed a thousand years after Revan and Malak. In fact, he got the idea for the Rule of Two from Revan's holocron.
      • Okay, you got me there, but since we can see there was a successful teaching of Sith under Revan and Malak's order, it may be more likely that the Rule of Two was meant that the Sith were under the rule of two Sith Lords. Not meaning there should be only two Sith. Ultimately, Bane had killed the very concept of the Sith by imposing the Rule of Two. Were Palpatine actually smart, he would have dropped the rule and be able to bring in an army of Dark Jedi under Vader's rule.
      • Who would, by Sith teachings, ultimately depose him. Bad Idea for one who wants absolute power and whose only apprentice is absolutely loyal.
      • Which, ultimately, means Palpatine is a bad Sith Lord.
      • There are good Sith Lords? Could've sworn that channelling the power of hatred to hurt and kill people as part of your plan to crush the galaxy under your iron heel is basically evil.
      • Only from an ideological standpoint. Palpatine may have used Sith teachings, but I think its fairly obvious he didn't believe in the Sith ideals.
      • Bane watched the old Sith order weaken themselves through infighting, leading to their ultimate defeat. He created the new Sith order with the Rule of Two in place to ensure that it didn't happen again. Palpatine understood this. He later had the Emperor's Hands, but (going by this, anyway) they weren't given any formal Sith training.
    • Dark Side Adepts. Given Dark Side training, but nothing delving into Sith territory.
    • Back to the original complaint, if you're a Sith Lord, are you really going to give extra training to somebody whose first experience of you came when your personal thug storms in and butchers their instructors? The Dark Side is one thing, but giving training to someone who has every reason to want your guts cooling in a heap on the ground isn't necessarily the best of ideas.
      • See: pretty much half of all Sith ever. Darth Maul is a prime example, as well as would-be Darth Luke Skywalker. That, and Galen Marek (Starkiller).
      • If it's only one, or at most two, new recruits, a skilled Sith would be able to keep them in line. A whole army of them, who were introduced to the Dark Side when you had their beloved teachers killed, would lead to your death as soon as they were, as a group, strong enough to take you. (They'd probably then backstab each other into oblivion after that, but you wouldn't be worrying about that, because you'd be dead.)
    • The movie itself answers your question. "If they are not all destroyed," Palpatine says, "it will be civil war without end." On the commentary track Lucas says that this is meant to mirror the Jedi statement that there are always two Sith and both must be killed to end the order. Neither side will rest as long as any from the other side remain. There's too much wariness and bad blood.

  • In Episode III, when General Grievous sends off all of the escape pods. Why exactly are all the pod's controls inside the ship, rather than inside the pods? Wouldn't that mean that in the event that they had to use the escape pods, one person would be left behind to activate the controls? (And ultimately die aboard the ship?)
    • If you watch carefully, Grievous launched the pods while in his own one. My guess is that all the pods have their own launch controls, but Grievous has a special pod that allows him to launch them all in situations like the one in the movie. And even if the controls were in the ship itself, no-one would have to die to launch them. Make a battle droid do it.
      • Speaking of which, why does a ship crewed entirely by droids even have escape pods? (or more than one, Grievous would obviously put one in to save his own hide, but there's no need to save cheap expendable droids...)
      • Because the ship wasn't exclusively crewed by droids. There were at least a few Neimodians on board, not to mention Count Dooku.
      • Maybe there are controls inside the pods 'and' in the bays, just for the sake of redundancy.

  • Despite the fact that Jedi have existed for how many millenia, it's only in the timeline of the New Trilogy that they are capable of Ascension/Astral Projection/Cool-Glowy-Ghost thing? Seriously? People have been messing around with the Force for 5000+ years, and out of nowhere Qui-Gon Jin is the first Jedi EVER to reach this level? I'm not bad-mouthing Qui-Gon - God knows he was the only thing likeable about Episode 1 - but Christ! Can you really expect me to believe that Jedi Masters of the past could not become truly one with the Force and do that? Really? Most of the EU books themselves being crappy, I rather liked the idea that being one with the Force and existing as Boddhisatvas literally-spiritual guides to younger Jedi was an old, old, OLD talent of these Space-Paladins...
    • Magic marches on, Padawan. It's likely that most Jedi became truly one with the Force, essentially ending up as metaphysical Tang.
    • Qui-Gon only re-discovered "ghosting"; it was around in the Tales of the Jedi era (4,000-5,000 years before the prequels), but along the way it was lost for whatever reason.
      • And Sith and Jedi ghosts both popped up from time to time in Knights of the Old Republic, too.
      • Which takes place around 4000 BBY (Before the Batle of Yavin, or before Episode IV).
  • Why do the clones in Star Wars Clone Wars kick ass, but the ones in the sequels... don't? Did the engineers slack off or Palpatine cut costs or something? Going from gunning down Jedi to getting massacred by midget bears is a bit of a stretch even for Evil Is Dumb.
    • Clone Wars was deliberately over the top. Point in case: Mace Windu killing an entire droid army singlehandedly. With his barehands. While leaping a good twenty miles through the air.
      • Plus there are a bunch of different E.U stories to help explain it, such as the fact that Kamino rebelled against the Empire and was invaded. Possibly they had the best military education there and nowhere else in the galaxy was quite as good. Also, I think once the Empire was established, Palpatine began to lean more towards numbers over skill. TIE Fighters for example, lack shields, secondary weapons, hyperdrives and even basic lifesupport, but their job is to swarm enemies and defeat them via overwhelming force.
      • Are we talking about the Imperial Stormtroopers here? They were normal human recruits, not clones.
      • That's correct, except one group - the 501st Legion, Vader's Fist. Those are still clones, but they're the only ones.
    • I am pretty sure Palpatine stopped using clones after the Clone Wars, and his stormtroopers are just regular guys. It's much simpler and cheaper to conscript/recruit and train an army in a couple of months than to breed one from the ground up, which takes years.
    • Actually, its both: Palpatine recruited normal humans, as well as used sub-optimal clones. In Battlefront 2, its stated by the 501st trooper pretty specifically that they're the only Jango clones left after Kamino rebelled. The Emperor decided that a single gene-seed was too vulnerable to "corruption."
  • What bugs me? In ESB, they're testing the carbon freezing process on Han. All they need is Han. Why don't they leave the rest of the gang in their cell? They even let Chewbacca carry the annoying thing that doesn't shut up along.
    • Vader was having Leia and Chewie taken to his ship. He simply brought them along so he wouldn't have to bother with hauling Han to the carbon-freezing chamber and then going back to get them and taking them all together. Saved him a trip.
    • Trip? Vader doesn't make trips. He has a legion of goons to do this stuff for him. Now, I wonder why he didn't take Han to be frozen and have the rest taken from their cell, directly to a cell on his ship.
      • Because Vader is evil, and making Leia and Chewie watch Han getting frozen gives him his evil jollies.
      • That, or he was being a nice guy and letting them say their goodbyes to their dear friend...
      • Let's not forget, the whole purpose of Vader taking Han and the others prisoner was to set a trap for Luke. And how did Luke find out they'd been captured? He sensed their pain through the Force. Vader wanted all the characters to feel as much emotional agony as possible, which is why he tortured Han. He knew Luke would sense the pain of Leia and Chewie watching their friend get frozen, and it would get him into his X-Wing and on his way to Bespin that much quicker.
    • If he had, they probably would not have gotten away, with Luke in tow to boot.
      • No, it wouldn't. Leia and Chewie's escape was predicated on Lando's rescue effort; it had nothing whatsoever to do with separating the two groups. In fact, Lando only acted to rescue Leia and Chewie once they were separated from Vader and Boba Fett, so moving them in a separate group from Han would have only made Lando act sooner, which in turn might have led to a complete aversion of Vader's trap for Luke and Leia, Chewie, and Lando getting to Fett before he got back to Slave I, thereby potentially rescuing Han.
    • Plus it's a way to spread fear to those who would oppose the Empire. "We don't even care about this guy, we're just using him to test this thing, that's how easy it is for us to risk the live of people like you so get in line, or you'll be next into that pit. And your Wookie can rage and scream all he wants, but we don't even consider that worth the effort of shooting him."
      • The power and ruthlessness of the Empire was pretty well established. Surely, they were still talking about Alderaan.
      • This group has narrowly escaped them all over space until they laid this trap. Gathering them together to witness Han's freezing is begging for trouble.
      • They were under extremely heavy guard and had no way to escape without outside intervention. In fact, they didn't escape without outside intervention, even when Luke distracted the Stormtroopers the first time.

  • In the final battle of the Phantom Menace, the droid army opens up an artillery barrage onto the Gungans' shield. None of the plasma bolts were able to penetrate. So, if a bombardment couldn't break the force field, how come the droid troopers simply walked through it, as if they were stepping through a shower curtain?
    • That's a common property of Star Wars shields. Large, slow-moving objects tend to be able to pass through the shields without trouble, while fast-moving objects and/or energy blasts are deflected. For example, see the X-Wings attacking the Death Star in ANH, where they passed through the outer deflector shield before moving to attack speed, or the AT-A Ts in ESB which had to pass through the edges of the planetary shield that would deflect the Star Destroyers' bombardment to attack Echo Base.
    • Ever heard of STF materials? The more shear applied to them, the tougher they get. Punch them and they turn solid, run you fingers gently through them and they're liquid. So this principle exists in the real world, too. And guess what? They've been been applied to armour theory, though without much result yet.
      • Also, consider what would happen to the ground if shield interactions destroyed/repelled everything that came in their path.

  • In Rot J, Palpatine states "Only together can we turn him [Luke] to the Dark Side of the Force." So what exactly was their stated plan? While each man's real plan was to use Luke to overthrow the other, and as dedicated treacherous bastards were probably expecting that, they presumably didn't say it. Are they really supposed to have gone "We'll get him here and then I'm sure we'll think of something. It definitely won't involve me getting him to assassinate you or anything."
    • The Sith always betray each other. To the point where it's pretty much expected of a Sith to do so, to eliminate the weak ones. My guess is that Vader and Palpatine fully expected the other to be working against him. They both knew only one of them would survive this and they both knew the other knew it too. Whichever of them died, they would consider it a worthy sacrifice for the Empire.
      • Yeah, but that still doesn't explain what the stated plan was. In order to betray someone, you first have to pretend to be working with/for them. So what was the pretend plan?
      • You....don't get the Sith, apparently. With the Sith, betrayal is expected. It is literally written right into their basic rules and philosophy. You don't need to "pretend" anything; if you're the Master, your apprentice will betray you, and if you're the apprentice, you will betray your Master. That's just how it works.
      • No, I understand that it's completely understood (lol), but they still don't seem to talk about it. When the emperor says "only together can we turn him to the dark side of the force" he is lying. He knows it. Vader knows it. They both know they are both going to betray each other, they both know they will each try to turn to Luke the dark side for themselves as a new apprentice and dispose of the other. Yet they stand there, listen to this lie, and don't bother to correct it. This implies that they "pretend" to be working together even when everybody knows the whole thing is a farce. So in this pretend system which everybody knows is false, what was supposed to be the plan which they both know won't happen but which neither will bother to correct?
      • Hi, there, welcome to the Sith. You've just figured out why they've been regularly getting their asses kicked by the Jedi for four thousand years and counting.
      • Well except the last thousand of those years involved the jedi not knowing that the sith were still around and the eventual culmination of a 1000+ year long plot to destroy the jedi and have a sith rule the republic which works despite the backstabbing (I say works because even though the jedi eventually won the sith accomplished their goal, a sith ruled the republic and the jedi as an organization were utterly destroyed). And about 4K years before DSII bit the dust the jedi were almost wiped out by the sith in the First Jedi Purge, reduced down to less than 100 jedi during the Jedi Civil War then reduced even further in the purge. Realistically speaking the sith aren't prone to failure, they succeed as often as they fail, but they can't hold on to their prize because of their betrayal. I don't know about you but I wouldn't consider 2 near genocides of a group, both followed by their slow recovery after a lucky break (the Exile 4K years BBY, Vader's redemption at DSII) to be the same as that group kicking butt.
      • Except that in every single instance excepting Palpatine, the Sith still lost. Yes, they dramatically reduced the Jedi Order many times, but the Jedi continiously emerged triumphant over them even when they suffered near-complete annihilation. The best the Sith managed to do after four thousand years of trying to conquer the Republic was a brief twenty-year-long Empire that was brought down by, yep, the Jedi. There are real-life unstable banana republics that lasted longer than the Palpatine's Empire. If the best the Sith can manage over four thousand years is a brief, short-lived Empire brought down by a rag-tag collection of Rebels and a handful of Jedi, well...the Sith kinda suck.
      • Except that there have been several Sith Empires throughout the course of the Star Wars timeline usually existing right along side the Republic. Saying that the best they could do was Palpatine's Galactic Empire is a bit off. In fact I believe the best was the first Sith Empire and the hundred and twenty Sith Golden Age. And to be technical the Jedi never win anything. They might beat an individual Sith Lord or two but the Sith keep coming back again and again. Neither will ever beat the other. Jedi and Sith are constants. Oh and as a side note, it has been stated several times outside the movies that the TRUE Sith Empire exists far beyond the edges of the known galaxy.It's what Revan vanishes off to fight after KOTOR. He doesn't win.
    • In the end, both of them were needed to bring Luke to the Dark Side—Palpatine needed Vader for Luke to kill in a rage, and Vader needed Palpatine for Luke to overthrow. So even if both Sith knew full well only one of them would get to "keep" Luke, they were interdependent upon each other's existence for their plan to work.
      • This is correct. When the emperor says "only together can we turn him to the dark side of the force" he straightforwardly stating the truth. Both of them are necessary, because one of them has to talk Luke into killing the other one, and the other one needs to get killed by Luke after the first one talks him into it. Both Vader and Palpatine must cooperate with each other, in order to succeed in their goal of betraying the other one.
  • Okay, mind powers won't work on Watto. Fine. Go to somebody else who is susceptible to mind powers, trade credits for whatever currency Watto wants, go back. It's not complicated! Furthermore, are we really trusting Watto when he claims that he's the only guy on the planet with the necessary parts? What sort of idiot would blindly trust Watto?
    • That would screw the mind tricked guy over. While Tatooine isn't a nice place, you're basically encouraging blind thievery of significant amounts of cash from some random guy, who may or may not deserve it. A starship engine isn't chickenfeed, in any case. While Watto might be lying, it's not implausible that he might have specialist parts that no one else on the entire planet (yes!) has. While Jedi aren't exactly absolute moral paragons, thievery would still be a jerky thing to do. Why not just outright steal the parts from Watto, if you're going to be that ruthless? While Qui-gon's plan was a bit convoluted, he can see the future (slightly), and even if his plan had failed he'd still have been able to get the Queen to Coruscant somehow. His convoluted plan was to get Anakin out without his head exploding, not to get the Queen to Coruscant. He had many more options for the latter.
    • Extra emphasis here on the whole "Republic credits are no good here." Foisting Republic credits on anyone aside from Watto results in said individual being pretty much penniless, if they're doing so to get enough money to buy spaceship parts. Mind-tricking Watto is a bit more reasonable, as he is a slaveowner and thus pretty much a pile of floating shit as far as Jedi are concerned.
      • Have the Jedi actually ever expressed an opinion against slavery, though?
      • Yes. Historically, Jedi don't like slavers at all. There's a reason slavery flourished during the Empire and why it flourished in areas the Republic didn't have direct influence over, like Tatooine.
      • According to the films, Jedi barely notice slavery.
      • Where was this said in the films?
      • It wasn't so much said as demonstrated by the fact that nothing had happened on Tatooine in between the films; slavery still existed, and the Jedi weren't all that interested in it, or anything that might interest their pet Chosen One. Slightly irritating, considering that tie-in materials for The Phantom Menace (as in "Shit that Lucas has embraced as at least partially Canon") indicated that Tatooine would be at least temporarily liberated by a force of Jedi led by Anakin. As Confused Matthew has pointed out, the Jedi of the prequels haven't done much besides act as diplomats in trade boycotts and border disputes: not a lot of Guarding Peace and Justice in the Galaxy to be seen there.
      • Tatooine is a lawless backwater outside of Republic influence or authority. What are the Jedi going to do, send a military expedition there to liberate all the slaves and instill justice and order? Establish an occupation army and garrision to ensure the planet complies by Republic law? Because without something like , say, a standing army, they can't. They don't have the manpower or the resources to do that. The only reason Anakin is able to go to Tatooine during the Clone Wars and liberate the slaves was because he had an army that could assume control and instill order.
      • First off: as far as the liberation of Tatooine, what have I missed? Did it actually occur in some semi-canon work? When? I was talking about Phantom Menace novelisations that feature one or two prophetic dreams about Anakin marching in and liberating the slaves. As far as I could tell, the event itself never happened. Secondly, if they were really thinking creatively, a Jedi force for social justice could have arrived on Tatooine disguised as slavers, buying up slaves to be employed as paid workers in the Republic. Thirdly, has there been any other situation in which the Jedi bothered to intervene with slavery, inside or outside the Republic- besides Revan on Taris and the Jedi Exile on Nar Shadda?
      • Tatooine is a backwater. The Jedi are overstretched as it is.
      • Overstretched with what? I mean, how many minor disagreements in the Galaxy require Jedi attention? Doesn't the Republic have any diplomats of its own? And, once again, have the Jedi done anything about slavery in the extended universe?
      • "Minor disagreements"? Jedi are sent to locations where all-out war might break out. The Jedi supplement the Senate, which of course, itself maintains diplomats. Due to their stellar reputation, a Jedi's presence often induces negotiations that a normal diplomat cannot succeed in. Any Tatooine mission would be a lifetime endeavour, and don't forget that Tatooine is in Hutt Space, and the Hutts are only loosely affiliated with the Republic.
      • Well, as far as the vital importance of the Jedi, it would have been nice if it was indicated in one of the films, yes? Out of a few hundred Jedi, I think only two of them did anything of any lasting worth in three whole prequels. Plus, you still haven't answered my question: have the Jedi done anything about slavery at any point in the Extended Universe, which- if Lucas were to at least partially acknowledge it- might show that the Jedi were doing things between the films?
      • You know what, that's a false dilemma. Slavery doesn't exist in the Republic. At all. It's not part of the Jedi mandate to try and wipe out slavery in another nation where they have no actual power. It'd be nice if they could, but they can't. Incidentally, it's a bit unfair to say that we never see any other Jedi doing anything useful, since the films focus on the main characters, whom incidentally, are doing important things that Jedi do all the time. Would you be similarly annoyed if social workers in the US were found to have made no specific effort to aid people in Somalia?
      • Social workers have their fields of influence carefully established- Jedi, not quite so. For example, there was one incident where Mace Windu apparently shut down a gang of slavers- but the work didn't mention where it took place: if this was within Republic space, this means that at least part of the problem starts or started inside the Republic and could be partially managed, but if it was in Hutt space, it means that Mace Windu was playing Cowboy Cop, and to be honest, that does not sound at all like Mace Windu. And as for the main characters doing important things, did Phantom Menace mention why Naboo was so important as to require Jedi attention?- I mean, Palpatine used it to wring pity out of the Senate, but what was Naboo in the grand scheme of things?
      • A member of the Republic, and capital of a forty-world sector. Incidentally, you're missing the point; Jedi don't have the power to remove endemic slavery from worlds outside their sphere of influence.
      • Actually, bugger everything I've said in the past few entries: taking everything including the jurisdiction of the Republic and the Jedi into account, why hasn't Anakin tried rescuing a few slaves from Tatooine himself?- after all, he's the reckless one. And I know that he would have been under the Jedi Council's watchful eye, but if they really gave a damn about the so-called Chosen One's emotional stability, they should have at least been willing put some of his fears at ease by- at the very least- ensuring that his mother was safe, if not free. So, what do you think? Am I expecting too much? Have I missed the point?
      • Because until Episode two, Anakin was always doing missions with Obi-Wan. He couldn't really just slip away while Obi-Wan wasn't looking. When Anakin is told to protect Padmé, Palpatine comments that this is Anakin's first solo assignment. Therefore meaning he's off the leash.
      • I didn't mean "while on a mission." If Anakin was really that interested in ensuring that his mother was safe, he would have slipped the leash, at least temporarily. It's not exactly without precedent among Anakin's teachers: Obi-Wan himself once left the Jedi order to take part in a goddamn revolution, of all thing. Plus, you haven't answered my other question: if the Jedi Council really gave a damn about the so-called Chosen One's emotional stability, shouldn't they have at least been willing put some of his fears at ease by ensuring that his mother was safe, if not free?
      • As far as the Jedi taking care of Anakin's mother goes, they had a long list of problems to deal with and unfortunately, freeing slaves was probably not that high up. First and foremost, their responsiblity is to the Republic, while Anakin's mother lived on a planet outside their jurisdiction. Besides, the Jedi probably don't believe in special treatment. If they did everything they could to make sure Anakin's feeling okay and Anakin's fitting in and Anakin's needs are being fufilled, then they would pretty much have to do the same for every single member in the Order. Besides, they were never 100% sure that he was the Chosen One. As for why he didn't slip away to save her, well he probably didn't want to jeapordise his future with the Jedi unless it was absolutely necessary. He didn't choose to actively disobey orders until he started having visions of her suffering. Up until then, he probably figured she could handle things until he was ready to come and get her.
      • Sorry, but Anakin really doesn't seem like the kind of person who'd think about his future all that much- examples including just about every goddamn prequel film in the Star Wars saga. In fact it's more likely that the thoughtless git just forgot all about Tatooine until he started seeing visions. And I didn't say that the entire order should watch his mother; one Jedi would be enough to make sure that Anakin, the supposedly powerful new recruit, doesn't go completely apeshit when the bloody woman dies of unnatural causes. Last but not least: dear God, why did the Star Wars saga have to take on a Black And Grey Morality by accident? I can live with deliberate shades of grey, but Lucas keeps insisting that it's all still a straightforwards battle between good and evil even when the Pure And Good Crusanding Guardians Of Truth And Justice are now a gang of emotionally-warped status quo-bound bureaucrats that leave their retarded apprentices to burn to death! DO YOU SEE WHAT THIS HAS REDUCED ME TO? AAAAAAAARGH. PLEASE MAKE IT GO AWAY...
      • I think Anakin did consider his future, at least his future as a Jedi, pretty seriously. Joining the Order wasn't just a ticket to get him off Tattooine, he actively wanted to be a Jedi, to be a hero. He didn't just want to save his mother either, he wanted to free all the slaves, as he mentioned when talking about the dream he had. It's gonna take a lot of fire power to free all of Tattooine's slaves at once, particularly when they're all carrying transmitters that their owners could use any moment to blow them up. Therefore, Anakin can't just go rushing in head long, he needed to learn the Jedi ways. And the Jedi did assign one Jedi to watch over Anakin. Obi-Wan. It was Obi-Wan's job to ensure that Anakin learned the Jedi ways and to keep him safe from the Darkside. Obviously somewhere down the line, Obi-Wan messed up. In fact it may well have been Obi-Wan who talked Anakin down from rushing off to Tattooine on previous occasions and trying to reinforce the "no attachment" rule in him.
      • No, no: when I said "one Jedi" would be enough to make sure Anakin wouldn't go apeshit, I meant by making sure that his mother was safe- directly. Seriously, the Jedi Order may not believe that Anakin's the Chosen One, but they know that he's powerful- even if it's all an Informed Ability: they also know that he cares very deeply for his mother. So, why not avoid the cataclysmic breakdown by ensuring that one Jedi out of a thousand diplomatic know-nothings has the job of actually protecting somebody that really needs to be protected in Canon? One Jedi on Tatooine- would that have been a stupendous drain on the nebulous resources of the Jedi Order?
      • That would be special treatment. Chosen One or not, strong in the Force or not, Anakin is just one guy. If the Jedi make an exception for him, they have to do it for everyone.
      • Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were pushing for Anakin to get special treatment from the moment they found him. From having what amounts to an entrance exam performed by the Council itself, for urging to same Council to disregard the fact that Anakin's age made him ineligible for training. Even after Qui-Gon died, Obi-Wan was more than happy to push for special treatment; telling Yoda that he (Obi-Wan) was going to train Anakin regardless of what the Council decided. If's that's not blatant favoritism I don't know what is.
      • No they wouldn't: Anakin is pretty the only recruit who was old enough to know parental care before being recruited, whereas all the others were taken from their parents as infants- which brings up a new and disturbing issue altogether, in this case "How did these rat bastard Jedi talk parents into handing over their kids?" None of the extended universe tales I've read go into explicit detal, and the more I think about it, the more it sounds like The Stolen Generation all over again! So, do you know anything about it, or am I forced to say that the Jedi deserved absolutely every motherfucking thing they got?
      • Never mind why the Jedi never checked up on Shmi. Why the hairy heck didn't Padme ever send one of her people to Tatooine, to buy her boyfriend's mother out of slavery? She's surely rich enough to afford it, if some hick moisture-farmer could do the same. She clearly isn't the sort to let Jedi ethical strictures stand in her way, else she'd never have married one in secret. And she knew better than anyone, Yoda included, how terribly Anakin had been suffering out of fear for Shmi's welfare.
      • Padme's is totally irrelevant in this instance. By the beginning of Attack of the Clones, she hadn't even seen Anakin since TPM. By the time they've met up again, it's already too late for her to do anything to help Shmi.
      • Anakin is not the only Jedi to be accepted despite being too old. In general, Jedi are trained at birth, but exceptions are made in various circumstances, such as if the child is particularly strong in the Force, or if Jedi numbers are particularly low. The whole business of attachment to family is why the Jedi are usually reluctant to take older students on in the first place. As for how the Jedi convince families to give up their children, I don't see them doing it by trickery or by force. If a parent says no, presumably the Jedi will back off and leave (one of the reasons why Jedi numbers are often low, requiring them to take on older students) , but there are sure to be more than a few families who would be proud to have one of their own become a Jedi.
      • "I don't see them doing it by trickery or by force." In emergencies, Jedi have been known to play fast and loose with morality- Darth Revan's mindwipe in Knights of the Old Republic, for example- so I get the sneaking feeling that it's happened at least once, probably during the KOTOR era, given how low the Jedi reputation had sunk at the time. Believe it or not, I can actually imagine backwater families being proud to have a Jedi relative, because the news of Jedi being used as stand-ins for real diplomats wouldn't have reached them, but it would run into problems when the family realise that they'd likely never see the child again. And why? The horrible piece of anti-love dogma that started this repugnant shit to begin with.
      • It's not "anti-love dogma". It's about attachments, not love. If you have attachments, you can be manipulated, you know, exactly like Anakin was. If it hadn't been for Anakin's attachment to his mother and Padme, and thus fear of losing them, Palpatine wouldn't have been able to turn him into Darth Vader.
      • "It's about attachments, not love." Semantics. The practical result is still the same. And if anything an "anti-attachment" philosophy is even worse than an anti-love philosophy. Giving up romance is one thing, giving up all emotional attachments of any kind is downright brutal. (What did they expect Anakin to do, just forget about his still-enslaved mother?) Not to mention the fact that nobody explained any of this to Anakin before he signed up to be a Jedi. As far as he knew he was joining a prestigious order of warrior knights. Nobody said ANYTHING about abandoning all emotional attachments before he signed on the dotted line. Plus the idea that attachments are bad because they allowed Anakin to be manipulated by Palpatine is directly contradicted by the events of Star Wars: The Force Unleashed. In TFU Galen Marek is redeemed from the Dark Side by his love for Juno Eclipse and his (late) father.
      • Or, for an even higher level of canon, Darth Vader was redeemed by his love for his son.
      • This troper always thought it was more that need of that level was bad. Anakin was a screwed-up kid trying to fix up his small end of the galaxy, who left his mother to unknown circumstances and became part of an institution that was never going to fully accept him - for example he was nearly twenty by the time he got his first solo mission; Obi-Wan was not even thirteen. The Jedi accepted him only by being actively blackmailed by Obi-Wan who had been emotionally blackmailed into it by Qui-Gon. At that point Anakin had no one, really - a grieving Obi-Wan who doubts him as compared to a cool Palpatine who praises him ridiculously. And then there was Padme, and he loved her, but his mother had died and then Padme was all he had. Anakin didn't have the solid grounding he needed to stay away from the Dark Side, all he had was bits and pieces of things and everyone's expectations and dark memories of slavery. His past and his present meant he was always going to be too ambitious for a Jedi. He was always going to go to the bad. Loving Padme stopped his ambitions for a while, all he wanted was her and to make her happy, but then he was going to lose her and he cracked. Anakin was a screwed-up kid and he never outgrew that, he only managed to escape being that for a while, and when his brother figure (Obi-Wan) and his father figure (Emperor Palpatine) were playing tug-of-war with his loyalties and his mother was dead and the person who saved him (Qui-Gon) was dead and his wife might have be dying he cracked and lost it and gave in. It wasn't love which made him go to the Dark Side, it was fear and loneliness and pain. And a lack of love wouldn't have averted any of those.
      • The EU does mention some potential Jedi who's families did not give permision for training. They were allowed to stay with their parents, but in at least one case, it did not end well.
      • It generally goes something like this.
    Jedi: We think your child may be Force-sensitive. May we train them as a Jedi?
    Parent: My child? A Jedi? Certainly!

    • Also note that the Jedi did not wipe Revan's mind, his/her mind was destroyed by Malak's attack on his/her ship.
    • So they say. Evidence does point to the contrary however, especially the fact that you can remember being revan (your supposedly destroyed memories) after the revelation. There's essentially two possiblilities, Malak is lying as your mind was damaged (in which case how do you still remember a lot of what Malak and Revan did?) or the jedi are lying and they mind wiped you.
    • Regardless of whether or not the Jedi mind-wiped the Player Character, they certainly reconstructed his/her memory and personality with false ones.

  • In the Luke/Vader duel in Rot J, why the hell did Vader lie down and flail his hand around before Luke cut it off? That just looked really bad and I think that someone with mechanical limbs would still be able to stand up after Luke began the berserker attack.
    • Partly because he's not trying to actually beat Luke. He needs Luke to totally give into his anger and at that point, the best course of action was to really let Luke just go nuts. Another interpretation is that he was simply overpowered. He wasn't like Grievous, his mechanical limbs were a hindrance (Palpatine deliberately had his limbs designed to be flawed to keep him in check) and he connection to the Force was reduced. Luke on the other hand was younger, fitter and stronger.

  • Why does everyone keep chewing out the stormtroopers for not hitting the main cast in ANH when they weren't actually trying to?

  • Why does the Death Star have a huge trench leading to the exhaust port? I understand the obvious need for an exhaust port, something that big has gotta have a lot of waste heat, and a six foot hole is an efficient way to go about it. However, the trench that leads to it doesn't seem to serve any purpose at all, except for a hide away place for Rebels evading the turrets so they make a run to the port and destroy the whole station with one missile.
    • The exhaust has to go somewhere while the Death Star is rotating. And when an object of that size rotates at all, it rotates fast.
      • Which fails to explain the trench, especially as it's like 20 miles long.
      • Again. The Death Star is big. And when something that big rotates, it rotates fast. You will need a long trench, and the DS engineers were clearly overengineering.
      • Since it vents into vacuum, I fail to see the point.
      • How often does this need to be repeated? The Death Star rotates. If it rotates, exhaust will splash over the surface of the Death Star. And when you have a reactor that pumps out enough power to destroy entire planets instantly, that exhaust is going to be pretty damned lethal. The trench channels said exhaust.1
      • It vents onto vacuum, so the exhaust is going to spread out radially, which is fine on the srface, but in the trench some of it is going to spread into the sides of the trench itself. No, frankly the only use I can see for the trench is to make it so that it can be destroyed, and give the good guys a victory.
      • Which is why you armor the trench that the exhaust is going to be channeled down. Without the trench, exhaust will be spreading over the surface as the Death Star rotates. it's easier to build a long trench to channel the exhaust and only have to armor up that than it is to armor up a wide swath of surface area.
      • Hey, if the missiles/torpedoes can hit the reactor it can't have been 'that' deadly, or required 'that' much armour. Besides, there's turbolaser turrets right on top of it, and who in their right minds puts delicate electronics in what is 'supposed' to be a blast-furnace?
      • Yes, because exhaust will be constantly pumping out of the exhaust vent 24/7. Like it was in the movieohwaitasecond. And there's no evidence that those turbolaser turrets were "right on top of" the exhaust vent, or that the turrets themselves weren't properly armored to deal with the venting exhaust, either.
      • Exactly, exhaust will be pumping out more-or-less constantly, else the thing would be a Thermal 'Relief' Port, not a Thermal 'Exhaust' Port. Also, if the trench had to be that long to effectively dissipate the energy from the port then the turrets simply wouldn't be down there because you'd fry them every time you rotated the wrong way.
      • Except that there was no exhaust escaping from the vent in the movie. You can very clearly see that nothing was escaping from the vent when the torpedoes arrived. Ergo, exhaust is not constantly escaping from the vent. And again, if they armored the edges of the trench to handle the escaping exhaust, they can do the same for the turbolaser turrets in the trench. Seriously, if they can armor 50+ kilometers of exhaust vent along with a few dozen or hundred kilometers of trench to handle the exhaust, they can armor up a couple of turbolaser turrets, too.
      • Because all exhaust is visible to the unaided naked eye...
      • How do you 'know' there was no exhaust, it could have been 100°C in there, and as already pointed out, the exhaust doesn't have to be visible. Also, those turrets have moving parts and are within 100 metres of the hole, so there is no way you can armour them properly.
      • Actually, interestingly enough, the majority of games in which the Death Star trench run is used (which is a lot) and the movie seem to support the idea that the part of the trench near the exhaust port doesn't have any turrets, note how Luke doesn't have to dodge any fire from turrets from around when the TI Es arrive to his shot.
      • The reason there's no turret fire when the TIE's show up is because the turrets stop firing so they don't hit the TIE's. Remember the movie? Luke and Biggs's conversation goes, "The turrets have stopped." "Oh, that means fighters are on their way."
      • "so there is no way you can armour them properly." Because....you say so? Considering the fact that the Empire's engineering corps had the capability and skill to develop and build a planet-sized space station, I seriously doubt they couldn't armor up a few turrets to deal with thermal exhaust, especially as there's probably hundreds to thousands of kilometers of armored plating already built into the station to handle said exhaust.
      • The turrets have moving parts, so no, you 'can't' armour them to the same degree as the rest of the trench, because if you make the armour too thick there isn't enough room for all the parts. The onlyway you could do it would be to put a permanent particle shield around them (this might actually have happened, we don't know).
      • No, you wouldn't be able to armor the turrets the way you could armor a stationary object, but that doesn't mean you can't armor up the turrets enough to make them resilient against the exhaust. As the above troper pointed out, they have the engineering chops to build a planet-sized, planet-killing space station. Armoring up a few turrets to handle exhaust - especially in a setting where hundreds of gigatons of firepower are hurled around in every turbolaser blast - would be child's play.
      • Two ways to look at that, your way (possible, but unlikely), and the other: That there ARE turrets there, but they stopped firing because Lord Vader was flying a TIE to take out the rebel starfighters in the trench and didn't want to create a friendly fire incident after which Vader executes the Gunnery squads. Notice, the firing from the turrets only stopped as Vader's TIE moved in behind the X-Wings.
      • Of course there's no visible exhaust escaping from that port. It's a small, secondary port. Did everyone forget General Dodonna's briefing? "A small thermal exhaust port, just below the main port...."
      • Okay, fine, they 'can' armour the turrets, but that doesn't explain why they need the trench in the first place. I mean, they wouldn't need to armour the surface anything like as well because the radiation would be spreading out into space, not, as it would in the trench, into the sides of the trench.
    • From Wookieepedia: "Splitting the station into two equal hemispheres was a huge equatorial trench approximately 503 kilometers in length for the first Death Star and 2,827 kilometers for the second Death Star. This area of the station housed most of the major landing bays, drive thrusters, sensor arrays and tractor beam systems."
      • It's not the same trench.
      • ...Yes it is. It's the equatorial trench. The trench that runs around the entire circumference of the Death Star. That's the trench the Rebels flew down to reach the exhaust vent. It just so happens that the major landing bays, drive thrusters, sensor arrays and tractor beams are also located in this trench.
      • It's not. You could hide the Great Pyramid in the equatorial one, you might just be able to hide a town-house in the one they ran down.

  • Bothans. The Bothans' hat is that they are spies. Everybody knows this. Shouldn't this make Bothans the least effective spies in the galaxy?
    • In the EU they get a few more hats, among them backstabbing conniving politicians and proud warrior race (yes, the bohans are a proud warrior race in the EU).
    • No. The Bothans are masters of ELINT (electronic intelligence) and SIGINT (signals intelligence), not HUMINT (eyes-on-the-ground intelligence).
    • Just because people know WHAT they are doesn't meant they not WHERE they are. Bothans have a natural cloaking mechanism.

  • Why, when Queen Amidala decided to go undercover in TPM, did she choose the cover name of...Padmé? As in, her name? Perhaps Padmé could have been a common name on Naboo, but really? She could have picked any other name, so she decides to pick her own and hope none of the villains asks her her name point-blank.
    • Real Life spies using a false name often choose something sounding close to their real name so that if their real name is accidentally found out, they can simply accuse other people of not hearing it right the first time.

  • Only Imperial stormtroopers are so precise.
    • Because on both the Death Star and in Cloud City, they were letting the heroes escape. You know the whole bit about "They let us go"? And the scene where the Falcon's hyperdrive was disabled, but they left the engines running as part of a clear trap to allow the Falcon's crew to recover Luke and then be recaptured? The Stormtroopers were deliberately missing and simply herding the Rebels along. On Tantive IV and Endor, you see much better marksmanship on the Stormtroopers' part, because they were deliberately trying to kill the Rebels in those parts. Of note is that the Rebel commandos seemed to have been almost completely wiped out during the battle outside the shield generator. They didn't do well against the Ewoks, but the Ewoks are small, fast targets moving through heavy underbrush in terrain they were very familiar with. Harder targets.

  • Vader was plotting the Emperor's murder. He wanted Luke's help so that they could rule the galaxy as father and son. So when Luke finally snaps and swings his saber at the Emperor, why does Vader step in and stop Luke? Wasn't that the perfect oppurtunity? The Emperor would've been decapitated, and Vader could begin negotiating Luke's apprenticeship.
    • The Emperor is capable of stopping Luke's swing even without his lightsaber. It would have been... inconvenient... if the Emperor stopped it by himself, when his faithful right hand man was right next to him.
      • Plus it was only one moment of brief anger. As Vader would know, it takes more than one single act to turn one to the Darkside. Remember when he killed the Tusken Raiders? That didn't automatically turn him evil. Wouldn't be too good if he'd let Luke de-stabilise the entire Empire and still refuse to join him.
  • If using force lightning turns your head into a big wrinkly buttcrack, how do you practice? Or do you just hope it works when you need it?
    • Overusing it turns your head into a big wrinkly buttcrack. Palpatine drew too much power in that fight. That's why his body decayed.
    • In the Episode III novelization Palpatine commented (privately) that his wrinkly buttcrack face is his real face and his former look was a mask (or possibly a Force Illusion).

  • Why does Palpatine not want it to be common knowledge that Darth Vader is actually Anakin Skywalker? Saying "I've convinced the Jedi's greatest hero to become my chief lieutenant" certainly would make excellent propaganda.
    • Given that Han doesn't seem to pay much mind to the Force, and Admiral Motti basically dismisses it entirely, it's possible Palpatine simply created propaganda denying the Jedi ever actually had great power at all or anything like that.
      • It's EU Canon that Palpatine has been painting the Jedi as scammers and frauds for two decades.

  • What happened to Rahm Kota inbetween The Force Unleashed and the original Star Wars movie? Was he on Alderaan with Bail or something? As a former jedi, even with his connection to the force severed, he would have been immensely helpful to Luke.
    • And what happened to Juno Eclipse?
      • That one's easy. She was just another Rebel pilot. Unlike General Kota, she didn't have any vital information or philosphical connection to Luke and co. that would change anything, other than the purely historical relevance of having been at the founding of the Rebellion. She has no reason to have appeared "onscreen"- her only importance was to (the late) Galen Marek and possibly New Republic historians.
      • She flew in Vader's personal squadron 'just another pilot' doesn't quite cut the mustard.
      • How many pilots do they have in the Alliance, again? How many of them can be deemed "ace pilots"? Why she wasn't in the Death Star bombing run, now there's a question.
      • Uh, she wasn't there? Yavin wasn't the only Rebel base, and even if it had been who's to say she wasn't undercover somewhere?
    • Getting back to the original topic (the whereabouts of Rahm Kota), a thought occurs. Luke's Jedi abilities may not have been widely known among the Rebellion until later in the war (possibly not until after the destruction of the Second Death Star). Luke himself might have even decided to keep his Jedi abilities a secret from all but his closest friends in the Alliance. If the Rebel Alliance had any traitors or double-agents in their midst they might have tried to kidnap Luke and trade him to the Empire. And after TESB Luke had even less incentive to advertise his status as a Jedi. That could lead to, shall we say, "awkward questions about his parentage". Luke definitely wouldn't want that to get out (Rebel Pilot: "I'm sorry, you want me to fly with who? Nonononono, slag that noise! Don't you know who his father is?"). The point is, if Rahm Kota doesn't know that Luke is a Jedi and Luke doesn't know that Rahm Kota is an ex-Jedi, they would have no reason to seek each other out. By the time Luke's Jedi status became general knowledge (likely sometime during or after ROTJ) Luke's training was already mostly complete and Rahm Kota might have been dead and gone already anyway.
    • Because the sequel hasn't come out yet, and it'll probably be explained there.
      • The sequel takes place after the bad ending, where Kota is dead. On the subject of that hypothetical conversation, I'd think Luke being the hero who blew up the freaking Death Star would override him being related to Vader, especially at that point in the war, when he's already proven his loyalty and ability.
      • The bad ending? You mean the one where Vadar and all of thefoudners of the Alliance die? I think you're confused with the ultimate sith collection missions, which are non-canon. The sequal follows the good ending for sheer virture of the fact that there's still a Rebel Alliance.
  • The whole "Bring Balance to the Force" prophecy bugs this Troper. Going by either of the two definitions of "Balance" I've seen (either that the Sith themselves were the imbalance, or to bring the Sith and Jedi numbers down to two each) the Force was balanced for what? 10, 15 minutes? The EU (assuming it's canon, which I've been led to believe by my Star Wars friends that it is) still has Jedi and Sith running around 130-odd years after Return of the Jedi. So, an entire war, killing who knows how many people, overthrowing a government spanning the majority of an entire galaxy, plunging said galaxy into what basically amounts to a dark age for two decades plus, only for the prophecy to almost immediately become undone? Shoot The Shaggy Dog indeed.
    • The fate of the Skywalker clan is to fulfill the prophecy, and destroy the Sith- its why they are so strong in the Force. Although the sith persist even after each Skywalker destroys the leaders of his era, they still do destroy the leader of their era, bringing about temporary balance. Presumably at some point in the far future of the Galaxy Far Far Away, the last Sith shall be slain by a Skywalker, and then the child borne by that Skywalker shall not be force-sensitive. That's my take, anyway- that the fact that the Skywalkers (all the way down to Cade, the great great grandchild of Anakin) are particularly strong indicates that the prophesy is ongoing.
    • I read a theory once (here or not, I cannot remember) stating basically that, rather than the Sith or the overwhelming ratio of Jedi-to-Sith being the imbalance, Darth Pelagius' experiments, carried on by Sidious, were the imbalance. The Sith Alchemy and all (trying to manipulate midi-chlorians). This Troper hasn't read any of the EU, so he has no idea if that sort of thing exists independently of Pelagius and Sidious, but if not, that may have been the imbalance.
  • About the whole balance the Force objective I have read the usual response that balance means destroying the Dark Side/Sith because they're unnatural and it's good,but the dark side doesn't seem so artifical to me,yes it's destructive but from what we have seen in the movies EU everywhere having potential for the force+ the bad emotions= dark side user,but for the force+ the bad emotions=training+ indoctrination=significantly lower chance of dark sider now potential is innate natural emotions natural but the only way you can use your natural gifts without going "unnatural" is years of training with mentors,a organization etc plus this is a bit rules lawyer interpretation but could you be a Dark Sider and not name yourself/have tehniques of the Sith and thus be safe?
    • I'll try and take this one...we are creatures of emotion, but we're also social beings. Dependence on others in part of an organization to control one's emotions is perfectly reasonable (and given the religious aspects of the Jedi Order, completely applicable to Real Life). The Sith, then, would be the Religion Of Evil that encourages destructive behavior, but Dark Side users need not join the Sith to go evil, just as in Real Life people commit crimes all the time with no religious reasoning. It just so happens that the Force influences the minds of its users to the point that engaging in any kind of destructive behavior tends to bring one closer to the Dark Side.
    • "Natural" in this context refers to "natural law", not "things that occur in nature". The Force, in effect, is a ''literal" "natural law" and anything that corrupts or deviates from this natural law, such as the Dark Side, is therefore "unnatural".
  • Why do EU writers keep assuming that Coruscant is the most likely original homeworld of humans in the Star Wars galaxy simply because it is the capital of their civilization and one of the most populated planets? It's like suggesting that either New York City or Washington D.C. was the site of the first British colony in North America. All we know is that Coruscant has had a human population dating back more than 100,000 years and that it was chosen to be the capital of the Galactic Republic.
    • It's not as though not having a precedent precludes the idea—it's quite possible the writers realize this is a case of correlation, rather than causality. Better that than each of them listing a different planet as the original human homeworld.
    • On the topic of how logn balance lasted, it was actually quite a few millenia before the Dark Jedi cropped up.
    • Coruscant isn't "assumed" to be the human homeworld, it's generally accepted to be the human homeworld (and yes, there is a difference). "General acceptance" is how science works. You take the most likely hypothesis and/or theory and you run with it until someone comes up with evidence that contradicts it.

  • Why exactly is there even a war between the separatists and the Republic in the prequel saga? Does this civilized, benevolent (though sclerotic) Republic really have no concept of something as basic as self-determination? There are very few advanced democracies in our world that would forcibly integrate secessionist provinces in the modern era. Quebec is a good example, the people had a referendum and decided that they would remain a part of Canada, the Canadians didn't just occupy the place when the Quebecois started talking about wanting to leave. What moral justification does the Republic have for forcibly re-integrating these planets? (And PLEASE don't bring up the American Civil War, as that was 100 years ago, there was a moral issue, and America was not a democracy as we would define it today.)
    • The Republic didn't declare war until Obi-Wan reported back that he'd overheard Dooku's conference, where he specifically stated that they were going to use the droid army to attack the Republic. In other words, it was self defence.
    • In addition the Republic was perfectly willing to allow some planets to seceed peacefully (althrough they did everything in their power to prevent it, including sending jedi to each hotspot) until it became clear that the seceeding planets were going to attack the Republic. See The Approaching Storm where Obiwan and another jedi (along with their padawans) are dispatched to try and prevent a planet from leaving the Republic through peaceful means, and it's mentioned that if the planet votes to leave the Republic will let it.
    • Did you even watch the movies? The seperatists are the ones that started the war. In TPM, it was the Trade Federation that held the blockade on Naboo. In AOTC, the Geonosians were putting Jedi in gladiatorial arenas to be killed, and they're only crime was just visiting the planet. If the seperatists were civilized about what they did, then perhaps the Republic would've listened to them and resolved it peacefully. However, the CIS's first order of business was to kill two Jedi and a senator.
      • Obiwan and Anakin were sneaking around inside secret government facilities, that could hardly be considered 'just visiting'. About the best you can say for the Republic is that they were reacting in self-defence (sort of), but it does look an awful lot like the start of the Six-Day-War.
    • Why shouldn't we bring up the American Civil War? It seems extremely applicable to me. The American Civil War officially began when Confederate forces attacked Fort Sumter, forcing the Union to strike back against them. Similarly, the Republic Civil War began when the Republic found out about a pending attack by the Separatists, not to mention the profoundly stupid action of attempting to assassinate two Jedi and a Republic Senator.
  • How did the Old Republic not have a standing army? I mean, HOW? Rule one in having a sovereign nation/state/space republic/whatever is that if you don't have a military to defend your borders you don't have sovereignty. Period. Otherwise any old nut with even a half-organized bunch of troops can come in and topple your government. Yeah, they had Jedi, but Jedi are "keepers of the peace, not soldiers". It's amazing the Republic lasted a week, let alone a thousand years.
    • Dooku states, "Our friends from the Trade Federation have pledged their support. And when their battle droids are combined with yours, we shall have an army greater than any in the galaxy. The Jedi will be overwhelmed. The Republic will agree to any demands we make.", so the Republic must have a standing army of some sort, and a pretty big one if it takes the whole CIS to overpower it.
      • Each member world maintains its own military. The systems that formed the Separatists maintained battle droid armies, while other planets maintain police forces and the like. The clone army were basically shock troops.
      • The Old Republic is probably more akin to the European Union than the United States. Each member state has its own military force; the Old Republic doesn't have a standing army because until that point there probably hadn't been a threat to the entire Republic for (one assumes) millennia. We see this in Episode I: the Trade Federation attacks Naboo. The response is to send two Jedi to negotiate, not an army to defend its interests.
  • In Attack Of The Clones, Jango claims that he was recruited by "a man called Tyrannus" to be the template for the Clone Army. Tyrannus is of course, Dooku's Sith name. So why, later on, when the clones are attacking Geonosis, does Dooku ask how the Republic assembled an army so quickly? That's what happens when you leave the army you commissioned ten years ago lying around Count.
    • Wasn't he just playing dumb? If anybody on either side of the war realized it was nothing more than a game to gain support for Palpatine to become ultimate ruler, then the Sith would be in big trouble.
    • This troper figured it was because Dooku didn't count on the Jedi discovering the secret army so fast. It's not like he left signs around the Temple saying, "GO HERE, GET ARMY!"
      • Except that Dooku pretty much already knew they'd found it, what with Fett turning up, followed not long after by Obi-Wan.

  • Why don't they ship water to Tatooine? The main reason it's such a wasteland is that it has very little water, and in fact all of it is underground. Why not just take some water from planets that don't need it, for example, Hoth, and send it to Tatooine?
    • The planetary government consists of Hutts. It is not in the best interest of the Hutts for the people of their domain to be well off; the harsh climate keeps the planet under their economic control. Moreover, do you see Jabba spending his own ill-earned money for the good of the people of Tatooine? Neither do I. And the scale involved is such that government involvement would be necessary to afford deal in such large quantities, especially on a planet with no major corporations or non-Hutt wealthy individuals who could do it instead.
    • Also, why bother? Tatooine is supposed to be the ass end of nowhere. No one ships water there because no one cares enough to ship water there.
      • Er, Tatooine isn't Arrakis. Most people there aren't dying of dehydration, or have a cult of water because of utter lack or anything crazy like that. In fact, most of the people who live there seem to live quite comfortably. The moisture farmers don't farm water, they use moisture from wind traps (vaporators) to grow stuff. Who says water isn't shipped from offworld anyway? What are the chances that exported bottled water doesn't exist in a galaxy far far away?
    • Clearly the Moisture Farm Lobby is to blame. Imported water was cutting into Big Moisture's profit margins and so, with the aid of some "associates" supplied by a certain big-boned local crime lord, they strong-armed the Tatooine government into passing excessive tariffs on foreign water.
      • I'd love to see that explanation be made canon.
  • If Lucas really intended for Greedo to shoot first, why doesn't Greedo shoot first in the movie's novelization?
    • "Lucas really intended" should really just be a euphemism
    • That change only happened because the movie's rating would have been changed otherwise. Just blink and think that Han shot first in that sequence.
  • If clone troopers are well, clones, they should all be the same size and look the same. I can accept different haircuts in The Clone Wars so people can tell them apart, but there are two things that still bug me: How do the troops of Delta Squad have distinct voices, and how can stormtroopers have varying heights?
    • The Stormtroopers have different heights because they're not all clones. By that point, the Empire had started recruiting regular people for the Stormtroopers.
  • The stormtroopers in the OT are not the clones from the prequels; as has been repeatedly mentioned, they're new recruits, so the height differences are fine. I figured the differing voices in Delta Squad are just how your character perceives them; having grown up with them, Boss may have been hearing them as individuals rather than as clones. It's not that they actually have different voices, it's just that Boss knows them well and unconsciously hears them with different voices. My two cents.
    • Different raising environments may create minor variations (okay weak excuse), and Stormtroopers are drawn from a variety of clone templates and, to a lesser extent, actual recruits.
      • The issue of differing voice is specifically mentioned in Republic Commando's loading screens. Commandos naturally develop distinct voices as part of the commando growth/training process. As for the Stormtroopers, many of them are ordinary human recruits.
    • To be specific, there was a clone rebellion nine years into the Empire (the Kaminoans were chafing under imperial restrictions), and the Empire decided to prevent another one by mixing up the source DNA used, and opening recruiting centers. This is also why they stopped being able to, you know, hit anything.
      • The stormtroopers can't hit anything because they're under orders to not hit anything in most of the scenes involving them prior to Return of the Jedi.
  • Has there been any Watsonian explanation or theories for how Luke and Han got "physical disfigurations"? It can easily be said that Luke's case is from Jedi training, but Han's?
    • Easily handwaved as an occupational hazard of fighting The Empire.
    • Luke's encounter with the yeti-esque creature was written into Empire to explain the scars that Mark Hammill got in a car accident between films.
  • Okay, there's a point about the "Bringing balance to the Force" issue that bugs me. Not whether it was about wiping out the Sith, or the Jedi or whatever, but something else. A lot of people like to believe balance means an even number of Jedi and Sith, but so far, I haven't seen anyone explain why this would be a good thing. It doesn't make a lick of sense. How is it a good thing to have a bunch of Sith running around, murdering, torturing and trying to take over the galaxy? And how is it a bad thing to have plenty of Jedi fighting for peace, justice and freedom? Other than a lazy excuse for Balance Between Good And Evil, I don't see the point of this concept.
    • The idea that it meant "balancing the sides" was that it was a Prophecy Twist - "balance" sounds like a good thing, but when you consider what it really means it's actually very bad. Of course, canonically "balance" means defeating the Sith, but see Darths And Droids for a take on the other interpretation - in that comic the Jedi are actively trying to stop the prophecy from coming true because the unbalanced situation is far better for them.
    • "Bringing balance to the Force" in this case actually does not mean Balance Between Good And Evil. It means "no Sith." Remember, it's a Jedi prophecy, and it is naturally skewed in the Jedi's favor.
      • Yeah I know that's the official meaning, but I'm saying I've seen people claim that they prefer the literal balance concept, and I'm just wondering what the appeal is. From their point of view, why should it be neccessary to have balanced sides?
      • It's not so much that it's necessary, rather that some people find it more interesting from a story perspective and closer to what the word "balance" usually means. Under the balancing out the sides interpretation the prophecy is more of a warning than anything else, similar to apparent prophecies of invincibility that actually hint at how the person will die (e.g. "no man will defeat you" = "a woman will defeat you").
      • My pet peeve with the no Sith thing is that, given the very nature of the Force its impossible. Even when the Jedi think all the Sith are gone, there not. They just have A Spanner In The Works. The Sith bash he Jedi, the Jedi bash the Sith and their conflicts consume the galaxy forever more. If I remember correctly, Kreia says something along these lines to The Exile if she goes down the dark path by pointing the the Force itself doesn't seem good nor evil but constantly allows the rise and fall of the Jedi and Sith. Personally, I'm a supporter of the idea that it is sentient and actively fuels the discord.
    • At the risk of verging off into WMG territory, this troper has been toying with the idea that "bringing balance to the Force" meant destroying both the Sith AND the Old Republic-era Jedi Order. The OR Jedi had become so entangled in Republic politics that they had started to become corrupted by it. After being destroyed by Anakin and Palpatine the Order would be reconstructed by Luke minus the flaws that dragged the original Order down. Notice that under Luke's administration the Jedi were much more independent and decentralized than they were under the Old Republic, and his eventual decision to re-establish a formal Jedi Council was extremely controversial amongst the Jedi.
      • I've heard that theory before too, but it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Was the Force incapable of somehow telling the Jedi: "Look guys, I know you're trying to work with the Republic for everyone's benefit, but it's not really what I had in mind, so could you go back to the old ways please?", rather than just creating a Chosen One to slaughter the whole lot of them, children included? Seems kinda harsh, don't you think?
      • That's assuming the Force can communicate like that with humans, considering that it is a galaxy-spanning energy field that's existed since before life itself. Why are we assuming that the Force even comprehends humans in such a manner?
      • Well, the prophecy was presumably made by a hum... er, sentient, not handed down, wording and all, from the Force itself. It's oddly worded because whoever-it-was had a hard time interpreting what they were foreseeing. It felt like balance... I like this explanation, actually, because it means that the Jedi are arrogantly assuming that balance to the Force means "we win" when their backs are against the wall, too.
    • How many times is this SAME DAMN QUESTION going to be asked on the page?! Look, this is my first time, and I am going to say this only once, because it's getting ridiculous: the Sith were bringing the force out of balance by spreading oppression and negativity. This is made explicit in Episode III: "Evil is everywhere." "It was said that you would...bring balance to the force, not leave it in darkness! When Vader ended their reign of terror and the Sith order itself (EU be damned, from the point of view of the films the Sith are fucking history), he put an end to that, so that the force was no longer skewed to the dark side across the galaxy, fucking up everyone's lives and clouding psychic people's vision. Thus, the force was more balanced again. Now can we please shut up about this??
  • Minor IJBM here, but in Ep. IV, Obi-Wan told Luke Anakin was betrayed and murdered by Darth Vader. From A Certain Point Of View, I can understand, but why bother embellishing "consuming his heart = killing" with the betrayal aspect? Darth Vader didn't really betray Anakin, no matter how metaphorically you look at it. Unless that "side" of Anakin was always there and just grew too powerful in III...?
    • Well, there's an in-universe answer and a real-world answer. The in-universe answer is that the Jedi consider falling to the Dark Side somewhat akin to demonic possession. In a sense, once you become a fully-fledged Sith Lord you cease to be the person you were before. This is supported by the fact that the Sith assume new names once they fully succumb to the Dark Side. As for the real-world answer, it's long been speculated that George Lucas, despite claims to the contrary, was really making things up as he went along. Obi-Wan told Luke that Vader murdered Anakin because at that time of the first movie Vader and Anakin were still separate characters in Lucas' mind. (This also helps explain a bunch of other inconsistencies, like the clear attraction between Luke and Leia in Episode IV and V, Vader's inability to sense Leia's nascent force abilities while she was held captive on the Death Star, and so on.) What really frustrates this troper is that Lucas could have EASILY covered himself if he had simply inserted a single line of dialogue in ROTJ. Instead of having Obi-Wan try to justify himself using the paper-thin "certain point of view" defense, why not just have him say "I'm sorry Luke, but I wanted to protect you from the truth". Or maybe "I lied because I was ashamed that I couldn't save Anakin from falling to the Dark Side". That would have explained things perfectly but for some bizarre, inexplicable reason, Lucas decided to go with the Jedi Truth rather than a more rational solution.
    • You can deny it till you're blue in the face, but the simple fact is that Vader was conceived of as Luke's father from very early on, probably from the start. It is a well known fact that before starting on the films Lucas consulted with Joseph Campbell on universal mythical tropes, one of the ones he picked up being the discovery and confrontation of the father figure. As for what Obi Wan said, as I mentioned above, he was echoing was Yoda told him in Episode III: "The young boy you trained, gone he is, consumed by Darth Vader." (Probably that line was written in for that express purpose, but it does connect all the same, being part of the story now.) What Obi Wan is doing is stretching the truth in exactly the same way that most anyone has who has ever had to tiptoe on eggshells around a subject they didn't want the other person to know about but couldn't avoid discussing, albeit more poetically in classic comic book speak. The only reason it's provoked so much discussion is because it's such a famous character and subject. Otherwise people would ignore the half-truth (quarter-truth?) for the humdrum little fact of life in human relations that it is.
      • I hadn't asked about the Darth Vader killing Anakin part, though; I knew the in-universe and out-of-universe explanations for that, but I'm wondering about the in-universe explanation for the part where Darth Vader is supposed to betray Anakin.
      • One can really only speculate on the answer to that. Only two people in-universe heard both the From A Certain Point Of View truth and the real truth. Taking Episode 3 into account, one can look at that aspect of From A Certain Point Of View and explain it as such: Anakin's primary goal throughout his turn towards the dark side was in keeping Padme alive. Darth Vader betrayed Anakin by causing Padme's death (either by choking her, or taking away Padme's will to live, however one wants to look at it).
      • Also, Vader turned against pretty much every ideal Anakin had. He slaughtered the Jedi, including the children, he brought fear and tyranny to the galaxy, he sided with an Empire that supported slavery (and keep in mind he used to be one). Vader betrayed Anakin by destroying everything Anakin stood for.
      • That pretends that Anakin stood for those things. Obi-Wan did, so did most of the Jedi, but did Anakin? Debatable. Anakin wasn't for the Jedi, only the abilities they represent. He was for tyranny in certain aspects (someone should be in control to make the senate agree?), as well as ok with the wholesale slaughter of enemies, including children (Hello, Tusken Raiders). And Anakin's decision to turn on the Jedi was their reluctance to adhere to their own values (Palpatine must die because he won't be guilty in a trial), as well as his need for Padme to live. The only thing Anakin truly stood for by the time of his turn to Vader was that Padme needed to live.
  • Why is Yoda made into an idiot in the prequels? He can stand in the same room as the current Sith Lord, but not sense the Dark Side wafting off of the guy like Chanel No. 5? And even if Palpatine is so awesome at hiding his evil (which he totally isn't, if you watch his reactions), why can't Yoda smell the potential evil coming off of Anakin? Palpatine may be awesome at hiding his intentions, but Anakin is an obvious ticking time bomb of betrayal, and yet Yoda never once points and says "Oh that guy's gonna be evil. No question. E. V. I. L. Bake him away, toys."
    • Always in motion is the future. Perfectly clear, hindsight is. Judge people based on actions they have not yet done, will you? Convict without evidence, you would? Condemn without opportunity for redemption or individual choice to improve oneself? Of the dark side, such thought is. It is the path of tyranny and injustice you would have Yoda walk, hmmm, yes.
      • Oh, man, dude, you can just hear him say that.
      • The Hero without Fear, public savior of the Republic, one of the talented new generation of Jedi Knights, who has served the Jedi and the Republic for many years without any major complaint besides some hot-hotheadedness and impatience, is evil. Yeah, that's going to cut it. And they didn't trust Palpatine. They put a spy in his office. They kept trying to revoke his emergency powers. They had his office bugged for crying out loud. What more do you want.
    • You can see Yoda blatantly shooting Palpatine a suspicious look early on in Episode II. He didn't trust him at all. And the Jedi state in Episode III that they are aware the dark side surrounds him. (Of course, since they're politicians, it probably surrounds at least half the rest of the Senate. That is not a joke.)
  • The Sith have a rule of how many, exactly? During the prequels you've got Sidious and Maul during Episode I. Dooku converts at some point. Is that before or after Maul gets his bottom-half-ectomy? And then during the Clone Wars there's Sidious, Dooku, and Ventress running around. But apparently Ventress doesn't count as a Sith because she just uses the Dark Side, and wields a red saber, and self-identifies as a Sith, but isn't actually a Sith. Also, nowhere else in the ENTIRE GALAXY, comprised of BILLIONS of inhabited worlds is there anyone else who follows the Dark Side and calls themselves a Sith. Right, sure...
    • Sith isn't a philosophy, its an order. Unless you are officially appointed a Sith the incumbent Sith Master, you're not a Sith, just a wannabe. Its like if you started following the outwardly visible of Judaism and going to synagouge, but never took classes, tests, or were submerged in a mikveh or got circumsized. You look Jewish, but any genuinely observent Jew would call you an imitator. The Dark Side is a power, and Sith is an organization. One can use the power without being part of the club, and the club has very strict membership. Even if the wannabes we see- and we do see more, like Starkiller and whatsherface that turned Jacen- may call themselves sith, they never recieved the sith philosophy course or the Sith equivalent of circumcision.
      • This troper would like to chime in and note that "the Sith equivalent of circumcision" sounds like the most horrible fate I can imagine.
      • It's also possible that Palpatine had multiple apprentices who just didn't know about one another, or one true apprentice and a group of aspirants. The possibility of a bottom-half-ectomy has to loom large in the minds of the Sith, after all, so why not plan for one?
  • Why does Leia lead the Falcon to the rebel base? She says it, she knows the ship is being tracked. Why not go to some random planet, leave the Falcon there, and take another ship?
    • She likely thought that both the plans and themselves would be captured again if she landed anywhere else, since they were being tracked. At this point of time there weren't any independent worlds from the Empire, and anyway any planet they went to is at risk of getting superlasered.
      • Ehm, summon a ship from the base, rendezvous with it somewhere inconspicuous, travel to the base on it and then use the Millenium Falcon as a bait, anyone?
      • How? The Falcon doesn't have a long-range comm system. They would have to stopover in the Yavin system to comm the base, and the Imperials would note the system that the Falcon stopped at and find the base anyway. Leia has no contacts that she could reach before the Imperials found them.
  • Assuming the term "droid" is short for "android" (meaning "man-shaped"), why is it applied to non-anthropomorphic robots like the R2 units?
    • Same reason the term "blaster rifle" is applied to weapons which are obviously not rifled. Language changes. By the time Star Wars takes place, "droid" has come to mean "robot" and the android = man-like origin has become nothing more than obscure etymology trivia mentioned only in dictionaries. Of course, I am treating Star Wars as being set in the future of our own world in this explanation, but it gets a lot iffier with the long and faraway galaxy flavor, translation conventions, Basic vs. English, and so on.
  • Why is Anakin such a hypocrite? In Rot S, he kills a prisoner with no hands. His justification? SITH LORD! Mace Windu has the antagonist of the last two movies and is about to kill him? "AUUGHH Jedi don't kill surrendering opponents!"
    • I suspect that might have been the point of that scene. In the novelization, they make this really obvious.
    • And Anakin never thought for a moment that killing Dooku was right. It was an impulsive act, and he says immediately afterward that he shouldn't have done it. So, from his perspective, seeing a revered Jedi master doing the exact same thing (except Mace was actually being fairly calm and calculating about it) was what looked hypocritical. They told him you never kill surrendering enemies, and he was conflicted about killing Dooku, but now here's Mace Windu doing the same thing and he's not even hesitating about it. From Anakin's limited, Unwitting Pawn point of view, that pretty much killed his belief in the Jedi's moral superiority.
      • Let's also keep in mind Anakin's true motivation. He wants Palpatine to save Padmé. If he dies, she dies. He'll say or do anything to save her, including calling Mace out for breaking the code, even though he did the same.
  • Wookiees are supposed to be a primitive race. So, why does their weapon still fire energy blasts? I've read in the manual that there is a projectile in the bowcasters, but that's irrelevant, it still has an energy charge that makes it light up green. It's still not a legitimate crossbow, and it still far ahead of what they should have. So if they have the technology to make bowcasters, why are they so pitifully primitive?
    • ...wookiees aren't supposed to be a primitive race. They're world-class technicians and engineers. They just like trees.
      • Then why are they so easily conquered by just about any dope who visits the planet? They don't even seem to use electrical lights or anything. They're just treehouses. In Knights Of The Old Republic, they were confused by a hologram.
      • ....because they're based on a single planet and don't have much spacefaring capability. If you don't have much in the way of an interstellar navy, then "any dope who visits the planet" automatically has a big advantage over you. And in Knights Of The Old Republic they were still relatively low on the tech base compared with the Republic.
      • They have the ability to make energy based weapons, but have no vehicles? Besides, where'd you get this "brilliant engineer" from? The only one I've seen that fits the description is Chewbacca, who seems to be the exception that proves the rule.
      • You mean like the huge army of flying vehicles and tanks they had in Revenge Of The Sith? Or the Empire enslaving them to get specialist engineers to build the Death Star? Incidentally, that hologram thing happened four thousand years ago. They've had four thousand years to get better.
      • Oh, I just figured the clones supplied the tanks.
      • The Wookiees have aircraft, but I doubt they have much in the way of tanks. Kashyyyk's biology and terrain makes traditional tanks a bit of a moot point, especially as the Wookiees operate at such high elevations most of the time.
      • So, if the wookiees can make aircraft, why not spacecraft?
      • That's like saying if you can make a bicycle, you should be able to make a car. Very different scales of technology.
      • Who says they don't? Where are you getting this race of primitives thing from? The only series I remember that from is KOTOR, which is set four millenia before the movies. And why shouldn't they have spacecraft? Just because we don't see them use spacecraft doesn't mean they don't have any at all. Do you see any Devaronian spacecraft in the films? How about Twi'lek spacecraft?

  • One thing that's always bugged me is that Luke's Aunt says that Luke is too much like his father. Later on, Obi-Wan says that Luke's Uncle and his father had a serious disagreement over whether or not Anakin should join the Jedi. This is all later revealed to be utterly untrue, as his aunt never met his father, and his uncle had never met his father before he was in Jedi training.
    • Beru met Anakin. They weren't married, but they met him together. I don't remember Obi-Wan telling Luke that his uncle and father ever disagreed about Jedi training.
      • It comes close, but not quite. Owen and Beru exchange a significant look when Obi-Wan Kenobi's name is mentioned, and Owen cuts Luke off by saying Ben Kenobi's just a crazy old man. Ben's take on it is only in the context of handing over Anakin's lightsaber: "Your father would have wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damn fool idealistic crusade, like your father did." Which does still shoot holes in the prequel trilogy's portrayal of the way things turned out, but they're different holes at least. Although for this troper, a sort of amusing note now exists in this exchange:
    Luke: No, my father didn't fight in the wars; he was a navigator on a spice freighter.
    Ben: That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideals, thought he should've stayed here and not gotten involved...
Ben trails off at this point in memory, though given the events of the prequel trilogy this troper now interprets it as Ben thinking "Hmmmm. Is that how it really happened? I can't remember anymore..."
  • Or possibly, while Owen never brought these thoughts up with Anakin, he could have told Obi-Wan. I can easily imagine a moment Obi comes to see Luke one morning and Owen, finally having had enough of this creepy old man finally tells him to stay away from his nephew. Obi-Wan presents Anakin's lightsabre, telling him how Anakin would have wanted Luke to have it. Owen points out that if Anakin had stayed on Tatooine after finding his mother, instead of going back to the Jedi, he wouldn't be Darth Vader now. He tells Obi where he can stick that lightsabre and orders the man off his property. Done.

  • Can anybody explain me the difference between a Dark Jedi and a Sith? Thanks in advance.
    • The Sith are a specific order. Dark Jedi are Jedi who use the Dark Side of the Force. Then there are your run-of-the-mill untrained Dark Side users.

  • In ESB, what is the reason behind Obi-Wan's claim that he can't interfere if Luke confronts Vader? I know he can't physically do anything, but I imagine seeing the ghost of his former friend would be a good way to distract Vader when things got bad. Was he letting Luke make his own mistakes, or did he just not feel like a trip to Bespin?
    • Force ghosts only show up for sensitive individuals, but in this case he just meant that he can't pull Luke's fat out of the fire.
    • Moreover, it's possible that Anakin just can't sense Force Ghosts. He couldn't sense Qui-Gon begging him not to kill the Sand People either. Or dark siders can't sense Force Ghosts, at any rate.

  • Why are there statues of human heads in the Gungan sacred place?
    • The Gungans and the Nubians have been living on the same planet for centuries. It could be a relic from when they had better relations... or it could be a sacrificial totem or something.
    • Actually they're not humans, the statues are mean to be 'Elders', a race of reptilian humanoids that colonised and later driven off the planet by the Gungans before the humans came along.
  • In The Phantom Menace, Nute Gunray allies himself with Darth Sidious and gets betrayed by him. In Attack Of The Clones, he goes to Count Dooku for help, unaware that he's Sidious' apprentice, ands joins the Separatists under that pretense. In Revenge Of The Sith, Sidious is openly the leader of the Separatists. Why is Gunray okay with this?
    • Two of the EU novels, Cloak of Deception and Labyrinth of Evil, both written by the same author, explain this. In Cloak, Sidious offers Gunray money and power in exchange for his services, which Gunray accepts. He has Gunray's corporate superiors assassinated in a brutal fashion, making Gunray himself the new leader of the Trade Federation by default. Seeing how Sidious dealth with his superiors, Gunray is thouroughly intimidated by the reach and influence his new "partner" all the way up to Episodes 2 and 3.
  • Fridge Logic example: all Star Wars ships down to the Millenium Falcon have artificial gravity. However in Episode III, General Grievous's flagship is seen plummeting nosefirst toward the planet below for a few moments, during which our protagonists find themselves running down a horizontal elevator shaft....something which should not happen if your ship has artificial gravity (which it does, as people can walk around in the ship instead of floating around). Even if the gravity generators had shut down due to damage to the ship or momentary loss of power, everything inside the ship would have been rendered weightless due to free fall.
    • In the novel, it's claimed that the gravity generator was damaged in the battle and was malfunctioning. I guess the malfunctions just happened to coincide with whichever way the ship was pointing.
      • Since the thing was going nose-first, it probably cut out altogether for a few moments.
    • So this is an admittedly stupid explanation, but how about this: in the Star Wars universe, when a ship is in orbit around a planet, they orient their artificial gravity so that "down" is towards the planet's surface, so as to avoid giving the crew vertigo. If they were planning on doing any maneuvering, of course they would have deactivated that option. Then, when the ship started nosediving, there was no one to tell the gravity generators to stop considering the planet as "down," so things just started rolling around.
    • On the commentary track they explain that they're not really in space: they're in the far, far, far upper regions of the Coruscant atmosphere.
  • When Mace Windu was fighting Palpatine in the Rot S, why did a strike with a lightsaber shatter the window? My guess, that a weightless and incredibly sharp blade should've left nothing but a slash, no?
  • Why didn't Tarkin order to blow up the planet that the moon with the rebel base was orbiting? The effect would've been devastating and they wouldn't have to wait while the rebels attacked them (thank you, Cracked.com). Yeah, I know the story about the gunner who lagged with the laser charging, but why would Tarkin lag as well?
    • According to the Expanded Universe:
    • 1. The first Death Star superlaser has at least a 3 hour recharge time, so you can't just shoot the gas giant out of the way then hit the Rebel Base
      • Wookieepedia (the other other wiki) says a 24-hour recharge time.
    • 2. The superlaser's effects on a Gas Giant are unknown but according to speculation from the characters who designed and used the thing it wouldn't have been that effective, it wouldn't have even come close to destroying the gas giant
    • 3. Destroying the Gas Giant (assuming it was possible) wouldn't necessarily render the moon uninhabitable fast enough, the rebels could potentially escape. Hitting the moon means they have no chance to escape.
    • 4. Tarkin is neither an impatient nor worried man. He believes his station to be invincible, so much so that he didn't even launch any TI Es to deal with the incoming fighters. He was almost certainly enjoying every second of coming in range knowing how the rebels at the base would be worrying.
      • 2. Well, test it on some gas giant on the way to the base, duh.
      • So they should take a diversion away from their target, shoot the laser (requiring a three hour recharge time), and give the Rebels time to escape/ get more fighters ready? All for a test which the engineers expect to be a failure anyway, and which would at best suggest that they could use a tactic that would save them half an hour or so.
      • 3. How is destroying the planet not lethal to the moon? It would be hit with the horrendous heat wave, barraged with the debris (well, if there is debris from a gas giant, I don't insist on that one) and fly spinning into space, no? As for rebels escaping, I got an impression that they had more then enough time to escape before the DS arribed but didn't intend to. By the way, why the hell didn't the rebel command evacuate? Even granted the base would've been destroyed, it's better to live and fight another day, no?
      • Right, and all those things would affect the Death Star just as much.
      • Not to mention that the beam could destroy a rocky planet with around Earth's diameter at full power. Do you have any idea how much larger a gas giant is? Not to mention the higher escape velocity for the planet's pieces. It's highly likely that the Death Star wouldn't be able to destroy a gas giant, or even have much of an effect.
    • Is blowing up a gas giant even possible? Wouldn't it be like trying to blow up a cloud?
      • "Gas" giants are something of a misnomer. While they are mostly made of volatiles like hydrogen and helium, they're so big that internal pressure liquifies the gassy stuff after a tiny fraction of the planet's radius. Further down, if the planet is large enough, hydrogen becomes metallic and does some interesting magnetic field stuff. In the center is a rocky chunk that is probably a few times the mass of Earth, which way back when served as a seed for the accumulation of nebular gases. In all, a gas giant is reasonably dense, and extremely massive. If we use the SD.net calculations for the Alderaan-destroying shot of around 10^38 J, several orders of magnitude greater than the minimum to blow up an Earthlike planet, that makes the death Star juuust about powerful enough to blow up a Jupiter-sized gas giant. Since the gravitational binding energy is not being overcome by a factor of millions, the explosion would be much less dramatic, probably taking several minutes for Yavin to have its radius doubled, and quite a bit more for the blast to reach the target moon. The real question, I think, is why didn't the Death Star take a different hyperspace route and approach from the other side of the planet.
  • The rebels used the plans they stole to find the vulnerable spot in the structure of the Death Star. Good for them. So, what's the very first thing the imperials should've done as soon as they learnd of the theft? Exactly, give the back up copy to their engineers and tell them: "I want these plans combed with the finest comb and all the structural imperfections that a relatively small rebel task force could exploit to harm the station found. Commence." Surely, the exposed ventilation shaft that the rebels found so easily, would've been found by another group of qualified specialists, let alone by the very people who build the damned thing. So, why exactly wasn't that done?
    • Granted, they didn't do it right away, but during that final attack, one of the officers on the Death Star goes to Tarkin mentions that they've analyzed the attack, and discovered there is a way they might get through and destroy the place. Tarkin waves it off, but it's obvious the guy was talking about that exhaust port.
      • Well, WHY didn't they do it right away?
      • They probably did. A station the size of the Death Star likely has a laundry-list of little vulnerabilities like the exhaust port. They probably only brought it up because the rebels were targeting the port directly.
    • Maybe the engineers thought the guns could target and fighters the rebels would be able to field, or that the commander would mobilise a larger counter-force against the rebels. After all, the rebels only got the port at all because Black Squadron was the only one to mobilise.
      • Sure, but it's not like they had to reconstruct the whole station - just wield a protection grid/lid over the shafts exit. If it impedes with the shafts operation, fine, make the grid removable and close it right before the rebel attack. Or was Tarkin THAT incompetent, he decided that moving against the rebels with a known unfixed vulnerability would've been a good challenging sport?
      • Tarkin doesn't believe the station is vulnerable. And it really isn't. The exhaust port is a billion-to-one shot.
  • The Jedi Starfighters in Episode III. What are those retractable wings for? At first I thought they were like the X-Wing's S-foils. Open to fire lasers, closed for extra speed, yet in the film, the Jedi Starfighters are shown to be capable of firing with the wings closed, and they have the wings open even when Obi-Wan and Anakin are cruising down to Utapau and Mustafar respectivly.
    • They're supposed to be radiators apparently, although this makeslittle sense because they're a couple of magnitudes too small for the amountof power those things are outputting.
  • In the Phantom Menace, the Trade Federation droid army is controlled by a central computer on a ship in orbit. Why would the droids need to give verbal commands to one another when they are all being controlled by one computer? I can understand they might have the ability to understand verbal orders coming from the Trade Federation leaders, but there is no reason the computer has to send a signal down, transmit it as an audio command, listen to that command with another droid and send it back up into space.
    • The droids are independently brained. The control signal is just to keep them running, like the Star Wars version of DRM. There's a cutscene in Attack Of The Clones where they blow up the core ship again, and the droids shut off... only to reactivate immediately.
      • Yes, but the Attack of the Clones droids are improved versions from the earlier ones. They had both the new gray droids as well as the improved tan colored ones. The expanded universe states that they learned from their mistakes and made them more independent. Remember in the Phantom Menace, they did not reactivate when the control ship was destroyed. Also, if they reactivated anyway, wouldn't this render the DRM ineffectual? The expanded universe suggests the ship in episode I does actual information processing and isn't just a safety switch (though I admit some sort of DRM scheme would have made the most sense in this story).
      • ...but they didn't reactivate. I was explaining why they communicate with each other. The control signal keeps them running, but all the calculation is done on-site. It's not implausible that the main computer does some overhead calculation too... which would explain why latter generation models are so stupid. They aren't designed to run completely independently.
    • Related to "verbal commands," above, why bother having the droids speak to one another at all? It's an incredibly slow and easily-overheard-by-enemies form of communication. They could have just as easily used coded radio transmissions or even high speed, ultra-sonic blips that couldn't be heard or translated by unauthorized observers. Instead, you get: "Oh no! It's a Jedi! We've got to—" (decapitated)
      • Maybe people are just paranoid about what the droids could be saying in electronic transmissions. You know, like real life people sometimes get offended for some reason if people speak a language they don't know around them. Probably thinking they are talking behind their back, or planning to murder them in their sleep and start a rebellion or something.
  • So how is it that Luke so readily believes Darth Vader's claim of him being his father? First of all, the only sort of info he has on the guy, Save for any news casts, are a couple sentences by an old man who died less than 3 years before? Second, if some guy claimed he was your father, I'm sure you would be questioning the validity of the claim.
    • Weren't you paying any attention? He searched his feelings and knew it to be true via the force. Also, even if he wasn't completely convinced, Obi-Wan's Force Ghost kinda confirmed it when next they spoke.
  • So is there any reason why jedi can't simply use the force on Grievous? Not kill him outright, but just bang him around a few times? It makes no sense in the first Clone Wars Cartoon when 5 Jedi at once are unable to defeat a nonforce user..
    • If there is then Dooku is immune to it, as he uses the force to beat Dooku when they duel in the Clone Wars miniseries. Perhaps it's related to Dooku's speech there about how Grievous must first make them fear and then defeat them, drawing on the light side of the force when you're afraid of death could be difficult for some reason, and it would explain how Mace 'scarier than you' Windu was the only one to use the force on him.
    • Mace does actually, he force-crushes Grievous' chest plates in their final battle, although it remains a mystery why Mace didn't just smash him into a wall, repeatedly.
  • So where do Jedi get their money to do their daily activities? Does the senate allocate a budget for them every year?
    • In one children's series of books about Obi-Wan's childhood, its mentioned that trainees who don't get picked by a Master to be a padawan apprentice get sent to be employed on a farm world. Presumably, this means the Order owns a few farm worlds and sells the produce for funding.
    • But I really don't think farming is going to pay for things such as Jedi Starfighters, or the upkeep of the Jedi Temple..
      • Farming on a scale we understand, no. Farming as in "the entire food output of this planet, save what is needed for the farmers, is being sold elsewhere" is another story.
    • Does the senate allocate a budget for them? In all likelyhood, yes. The Old Republic Jedi Order was a subset of the Republic Judicial Department, and the New Order definately received money from the Republic (it's stated multiple times that the new jedi temple was built using taxpayer's money as a gift to the jedi).
  • Why did Mace Windu take 200 Jedi with him to Geonosis just to rescue 2 other Jedi and a senator? Why not wait until Yoda was able to get there with the clone army, or better yet, just take at least 100 Jedi, and let the others come in with the Clone Army?
    • The Jedi were supposed to frighten the Separatist leadership into submission. Yes, Mace Windu is stupid. Dooku, being not that easy to intimidate, just sent in troops. The idea was to rescue the senator and the Jedi, then the army cleans up.
    • They probably wanted to take Dooku hostage while they were at it.
  • So why did Owen have Luke keep his last name? You think he would have it changed to lars or something. That would have been bad for Luke had he went off to the academy..
    • Who's to say that Skywalker isn't a common name?
    • But wouldn't Vader or Palpatine be on the lookout for anyone with the last name skywalker?
    • Tatooine is really out of the way. Its entirely likely that the people living there aren't on any non-hutt registry, and the Larses live in the boondocks to boot, so there's very little chance of anyone knowing the significance of the skywalker name learning of Luke's existence.
      • Why? They don't know that the twins survived. And it really depends on how common a name it is. It could be the Star Wars equivalent of Hendrickson.
  • I know it's for the sake of the story, but out of all the women Anakin could have encountered over 10 years, he just wants Padme?
  • If in 10 years, you have hundreds of star systems leaving the government, whole corporations refusing to do business, shouldn't the first thing the Jedi at least do is investigate Palpatine and how he is running the republic?
    • Who says they didn't? Pretty much everything Palpatine did (that the jedi could find evidence of) was public record and well known anyways. The systems leaving and such were due to other causes (Dooku, conquest, slave army etc), causes they had no reason to suspect Palpatine had any part in. You may as well ask why they didn't investigate every senator for the same reason.
  • This will be a bit long so bare with me: Has anyone ever thought how Mace and his Jedi Posse had no legal ground to arrest Palpatine? First, they had no evidence Palpatine was a sith ( Before he went and sliced through the 3 nobodies), and the only clue they had was what Anakin told Mace, and he was not in a right state of mind at the time. And let's say that they did manage to "arrest" him, without him revealing his sith powers? He could argue that the Galactic Constitution ( If they have one) has nothing about being a Sith is illegal, and that he had done no activities that would indicate elsewise.
    • This was discussed above. The important points brought up in the Jedi's defense are a) being a Sith may well be illegal in the Republic and b) given the Rule of Two nature of the Sith, it's not a stretch to assume "Sith" means "in league with Dooku," which would make Palpatine guilty of treason.
  • So how were the clones indoctrained with the "Order 66" order? Were Jango Fett or the other traning sargeants told by Dooku/Palpatine to train the clones that way?
    • I assumed that it was hardwired into them as part of the cloning process.
    • It's implied in the Republic Commando books that they were taught it, along with the other 149(? pretty sure there were 150, but might be off) contingency orders. One of the clones in the books lists off a half dozen of them off the top of his head, and some of the chapters start with them. They all make perfect sense in context, which is probably why no one ever noticed how they could be use by Palpatine (that and no one seemed to pay any attention to them).
  • so Why did Palpatine go and build a second death star, instead of building hundreds of star destroyers?
    • He was a bit less than lucid, near the end. "Mad with power" fits the bill quite nicely. Plus, if his plans had gone smoothly, it would have been finished and become an indestructible fortress of doom with which he could cement his rule into eternal permanency. He simply failed to anticipate the killer teddy bears' ability to thwart stormtroopers or Anakin's love for his son. Save those two factors, the Death Star II would have been far more effective, especially as a symbol of power, than a large fleet.
      • He already has millions of star destroyers. A Death Star is more awesome.
    • Look at the plans for that thing, those tubes make convenient looking targets, convenient enough that at least one person in the whole Alliance should have noticed. To put it another way, the DSII was a target the Rebels couldn't ignore, it was the bait in a trap they would 'have' to spring, with the added bonus to the Emperor of getting a nigh-indestructibe planet-blasting battlestation at the end of it.
    • Also, as was pointed out far higher up on the page, the Death Star gives the Empire a major strategic advantage. It blows through planetary shields like they aren't even there, something that would otherwise take a huge fleet to batter down.
      • Would a huge fleet even work? The rebels had a shield which could whistand the Executor. Maybe the Death Star is the only practical way to go through them.
      • The Alliance cruisers' shield could withstand bombardment from the Executor for a limited time, but that's hardly saying that they were immune to its firepower, I'm given to understand that the targetting equipment employed by the empire's later ships was none-too-good, so many of the shots mayhave missed.
      • I didn't mean cruiser shields, I meant theatre shields like the one used in Hoth. Or maybe even planetary shields like Alderan had.
  • How did the companies who were contracted to build the armor, weapons and spaceships for the Clone Army hide the fact that they were building these huge orders for 10 years?
    • Its amazing what you can hide in the furniture budget. Alternatively, they didn't hide it. They might not even have started until Palpatine became Chancellor seven years before the war, and once he was in, he could hide it from or explain it away to the proper bureaucratic agency in charge of that sort of thing.
      • Alternatively alternatively they didn't hide the existance of the projects at all, after all there were militaries at the time, just individual defense units. They simply hid the ordering party, which would probably be standard operating procedure (don't want to give away that you're planning a buildup after all). Anyone looking at them probably thought something like "Big order? Hmm, maybe Corellia's increasing its defense force again. Or maybe Naboo's finally getting a defense force after that Naboo incident." The last thing anyone would think is republic military when the orders started, and by the time it became a possibility the orders had been going on for so long no one would even consider linking it to the Republic.
    • Well apparently Sifo-Dyas commissioned the army in secret (lord knows where he got the money), so the companies could just say 'mysterious benefactor'. Also, most of the equipment was produced by Kuat Drive Yards, which had several different operating divisions, and yards in at least half-a-dozen systems, one of which was Rothana (an outer-rim planet where many of the ground vehicles were actually constructed), which was located in the outer Rim, and thus perhaps beyond the jurisdiction of the Republic to begin with. KDY also had contracts for the Jedi, so they could also hide it a bit in the 'research budget'.
  • Nobody found it strange that Palpatine just so happened to produce a Grand Army so quickly? Even if you could say that the galaxy was big that he could apparently hide it, doesn't that seem to imply that Palps was ready to go to war?
    • They don't know that Palpatine produced the army. Until Revenge of the Sith, it's clear that someone ten years ago was preparing for a big war, but there's no evidence which links that person to Palpatine.
    • And, if you'll recall, according to the Kaminoans, it was a Jedi that commissioned the army. A jedi who is now conveniently dead and without force-ghost abilities.
      • And the Army itself was discovered by another Jedi, one who was following up on a lead in a murder investigation involving a bounty hunter. There was really no way anyone could really link the army to Palpatine.
    • They were able to build the Death Star in secret. Twice. Galaxy-wide economic and industrial capability in this setting is powerful enough that no one would even bat an eye at an order for five trillion suits of combat armor.
  • Let's say for instance that there were 2 Jedi of the same sex ( Let's forget that some species can change ssex like the killik or Hutts) who fell in love. Would the Jedi approve of same sex relationships?
    • Presumably the Jedi would disapprove of the relationship, but solely on the basis that it's a relationship - given a galaxy where there are species with multiple sexes, no sexes, both sexes, changing sexes etc., it's doubtful that there is any major stigma towards any one kind of relationship. The Jedi don't approve of relationships and attachments, regardless of the genders of the involved parties.
      • Depends how deep the relationship goes. I believe Jedi are okay with "friends with benefits" level relationships, but nothing more serious. With that in mind, I would assume that they would have no objection to homosexuality. It's heavily implied in Knights Of The Old Republic that Juhani was a lesbian and had a relationship with Belaya. Given her dedication, it seems unlikely that she would have hidden it.
  • How does being the daughter of a Senator make Leia Organa a princess?
    • Prince (technically Prince consort) Bail Organa was married to Queen Breha Organa of Alderran. After a second near-disastrous miscarriage, she and Bail decided to adopt. Bail and Breha took Leia in, and when the queen of the planet is your mommy, you're the princess.
    • I always took the "princess" title for an affectation (can't be a princess if your mom used to be a queen, before she had you), hence Han's mockery of it.
  • Exactly why is attachment forbidden with the Jedi after the Ruusan Reformation?
    • Well, Revenge of the Sith provides a rather nice example. If you're too attached to an individual person rather than the galaxy as a whole, the fear is, you'll do things you regret and fall to the temptation of the Dark Side to help that person, under the "it may harm the galaxy, but if I can save her, its worth it" line of thinking.
  • If Yoda was able to see into the future and determine that the boy's future is clouded, why didn't they put him with an experienced Jedi Master instead of Obi-Wan?
    • "Clouded" means he wasn't able to see into Annakin's future.
  • Why didn't Anakin just grow a new arm instead of getting a robotic one?
    • Either as a reminder of his failure, or because there was a war going on, his skills were needed badly, and the time and physical therapy necessary for getting a new arm fully grown and up to the standards of the old one would take him out of the action much, much longer than getting a prosthetic would.
      • The second reason, that it would take too long to grow and keep him out of the action, is used by Darth Caedus in the book Invincible. It seems to take a long time to grow something as large as a new arm in the Star Wars universe, and you can't just put in an order and come back when it's done for some reason so most main characters who lose an arm just get a prostetic that takes much less time.
    • It is possible to just grow and attach new limbs in this verse that work as well as the original (this is important, since Anakin will need to fight a lot)? I don't think I've seen it before... even Luke had to make due with a realistic-looking robotic hand.
  • Has there ever been an effort to remaster some of the old documentaries about the Original Trilogy released for today's audience?
  • Why did the droid army engage the Gungans in Episode I? At the point the droid army was activated, Padmé and the Jedi were already Storming The Castle. Shouldn't it have been obvious by then that the battle was a diversion? What did the Federation hope to gain by defeating Gungans in the middle of nowhere while the real battle was taking place at the palace?
    • The Gungans were still a significant military presence on the planet, and still needed to be dealt with. Plus, it's been said/hinted that Palpatine is prejudiced against non-humans.
      • I understood he doesn't give a damn about species when it comes to exploiting people. It's just there is a large enough population of manipulatable human-supremacists that he used them.
  • What was the whole point of "The Chosen One"? They said that the chosen one would bring balance to the Force by defeating the Sith, which he does, not counting Nightsisters, "True" Siths and other lesser Dark Side users. However, according to the EU, Palpatine didn't die, making Anakin's sacrifice worthless (well, it helped to weaken the Empire). And after Palpatine was killed for good, Siths began to pop up everywhere. And this is not "A thousand years later", Luke, Leia and Han were still alive when Darth Kraith formed the new Sith Order. So Anakyn brought balance to the Force for a month or two.
    • It works if you simply dismiss the EU as the poorly-written, poorly-concieved moneygrab that it is.
      • YMMV some of the EU books are incredibly well written (see anything by Timothy Zahn). Some are just moneygrabs but not the majority. As to the original question they say he'll bring balance to the force, they never specify how, or what that balance means.
      • And now you know why I never listen to purists.
    • People, this has been addressed at least five times now. Let it go. Stop rehashing it.
  • Okay, scene one, Naboo guy contacts the ship. He demands they contact him and Obi-Wan says it's a trap and tells the Naboo people not to send any transmissions. Scene two, Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon chat about this and agree it's probably a trap to establish a trace. Scene three, Sidious and Maul are talking about how the trace placed the Queen on Tatooine. Where did the trace come from? Did the Naboo people send a transmission behind Obi-Wan's back?
    • Yes, the Queen ignored Qui-Gon and sent a transmission anyway.
      • You mean the decoy? Because the Queen is Padmé and she was in Anakin's hovel at the time.
  • Why does Sidious/Palpatine go to all the trouble of sending Darth Maul out to capture Queen Amidala and bring back to Naboo to sign the treaty? His scheme to sympathy-vote himself to the Chancellorship works just as well if not better with Amidala pleading her case on Coruscant. When the Neimoidians told him Amidala escaped, he should have just said, "well, I guess you guys are screwed" and then let Amidala make it to Coruscant. As Palpatine he could have even speeded up the process by convincing Valorum to send people to Tatooine to rescue Amidala so that they wouldn't have to bet on Anakin in the podrace.
    • Amidala had already refused to sign the treaty when he had thought she would say yes. Clearly she was harder to manipulate than he imagined, so the best course of action was to have Maul grab her and make her sign by force. Once she got through to Coruscant however, he decided to make the best of a bad situation and try a more subtle manipulation. Luckily for him, it worked.
  • Why does Palpatine look so sick and old in AOTC, but in ROTS he looks healthy?
    • The Senate liked him so much they transferred huge amounts of money into his health care coverage. By Sith, he was having daily facials with massages delivered by Twi'lek women.
  • Why does Darth Sidious have such a massive desire to rule the galaxy? Its not like he has some healthcare reforms he's trying to push through or to pick up chicks. All he does is sit on a throne all day long and cackle, I doubt he would have needed to be emperor to do that. Why would he want to rule people he doesn't give a damn about?
    • Because he's a Sith and it's natural for Sith crave power over others. Plus, what better way to destroy the Jedi than turning those who've they've protected those who've they've defended against them?
    • In one of the Episode 3 documentaries, Lucas stated and Palpatine really did want peace, the problem being that he went too far to get it.
      • Then why did he start a war to get peace? Is this one of those 'if war is inevitable, I had better get down to making sure peace comes after whatever the cost' sort of deals?
    • The expanded universe indicates that he knew the Yuuzhan Vong were preparing to invade, so he wanted to build up the millitary to defend the galaxy against them so there would be peace rather than slavery to extragalactic monsters. Like other Sith, the ends justified the means, and eventually said means became more important than the ends as the darkness and madness consumed him.
      • He really, really stuffed up then, because he managed to make enemies of just about anyone outside of the military (and a fair few 'inside' the military), and right after his death, the empire started tearing itself apart. As Pellaeon said in one of the NJO series books:
        Do you really believe that, Kurlen? We weren't able to resist a handful of Rebels, so how would we have resisted the massed might of the Yuuzhan Vong?
      • Well, yes, that's the point about what happens when you use the Dark Side to achieve your goals- just look at Anakin and Jacen for wholly observed examples- you start out with the best of intentions, begin gathering more power to achieve those goals and doing more and more morally questionable things, until you forget about your positive goal and are consumed utterly by power and corruption. We saw it happen to Vader and Caedus, its only reasonable to assume it happened to Sideous at some point back before Episode 1.
      • Actually, according to the wikia, Palpatine was inducted as a Sith before he was of an age to have any real goals.
    • According to Ian McDiarmid, "the pure exercise of power is what he's all about. That's the only thing he's interested in and the only thing that can satisfy him." So I guess the answer is that he's just a pathological megalomaniac with no reason to rule the galaxy other than his own evil gratification. Maybe if he did squash the Rebels in Jedi, he would have discovered that Victory Is Boring.
    • Thanks. Now the image of non-Emperor Palpatine sitting on a homemade throne, looking out into space cackling will never leave my head.
  • A couple questions about the Jedi Robes/Clothes: 1. Has there ever been a article or effort to produce a guide to the different variations of robes we have been witness to yet? 2: Do the robes protect the wearer in extreme temperature? In TPM and AOTC, Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon ( Well just TPM for Qui-Gon), they get thoroughly soaked with water, but they don't appear to get hypothermia or anything. In ROTS, Obi-Wan and Anakin are inches about hot boiling lava, but the clothes only get very few burn marks. 3. Why is it that you have some Jedi like Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon wear fairly standard robes with simple colors, and then you have other Jedi such as Aayla who wears revealing clothes or Luminara who wears clothes similar to what middle eastern women wear today?
    • I don't think the robes are particularly protective. But when Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon get wet, they don't get hypothermia simply because it's not necessarily that cold. Getting wet doesn't automatically mean hypothermia. Besides, the Jedi are a pretty tough bunch, I think they can handle a little cold. As for not getting burned in ROTS, that's actually due to the droid and platform emitting a sort of cooling sheild (look for the blue glow underneath them). Despite being inches from lava, Anakin and Obi-Wan were actually quite cool. When Anakin is sliding down the bank with no shields to protect him, his robes catch fir even before he touches the lava. As for why different Jedi wear different styles of robes, my guess is that it's a relfection of their own personal specie's culture.
    • http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_apparel I think the different robes are just different taste, and Aayla and Luminara is a sort of cultural acceptance thing, like how the Jedi Order let Ki-Adi Mundi have kids. I'm not sure since I only just skimmed the article now, but I also think it says something about the tunics and robes being made to handle different environments, since most Jedi only wear it, and still go all kinds of places.
  • Speaking of Jedi apparel, you would think with all the leaping about and lightsaber wielding and whatnot that Jedi do, that long billowing sleeves and cloak-like robes are practically begging to catch fire or get tripped over or worse. Luke's garb in Rot J would seem to much more appropriate for the Jedi lifestyle.
    • Well considering the jedi lifestyle pre-Ao TC appears to be a lot more like a diplomatic function robes like that are somewhat more reasonable. Not to mention that, under those robes, they wear some pretty functional clothing.
    • It's worth noting that Jedi generally shed their out robes before engaging in lightsabre duels. Underneath, their clothing is quite light and non-restrictive. Pretty good attire for combat that requires a good deal of agility.
  • Was Luke really serious about giving C-3PO and R2-D2 to Jabba the Hutt?
    • I think he probably knew from the start that Jabba wouldn't agree to the deal, but keep the droids anyway. It was probably an excuse to get 3PO inside in case they needed a translator and get R2 in so he could give Luke his lightsabre.
      • It was all about getting R2 on the inside. As much as I love 3PO, he really had no business going on that mission.
  • In Empire Strikes Back, the Falcon is hiding on top of a Star Destroyer, threepio is terrified beyond words and Leia's response is to reach over and TURN HIM OFF. Not cool. He's supposedly your friend, but when he annoys you even a little, you just shut him down. This scene made me lose all sympathy for Leia.
    • Why? It's not like it hurts him or anything.
      • No it doesn't, and on top of that it prevents the massive argument brewing between the droid and Han, and on top of that he was suggesting surrender.
    • What's wrong with turning him off? And how else was she going to shut him up after he starts ranting and panicking? In real life, you would likely have smacked or otherwise subdued a comrade who was acting that irrational.
    • Also, remember earlier in either the first movie or Empire, 3P0 offers to turn himself off if they won't be needing him for a while. Turning a droid off is clearly not a big deal. All Leia did was give him an enforced nap instead of having him panic and screw something up.
      • If 3PO turning himself off is akin to him taking a nap, then Leia turning him off is essentially like knocking him out. Still, I belive that droids are often treated like second class citizens in the Star Wars universe. Even kind and compassionate Obi-Wan isn't particularly distrubed when R4 is destroyed (and in the novel, he often tells Anakin to rfer to R2 as "it", not "him"). I think Luke and Anakin are unusual in that they consider droids to be more equal that others do.
      • That's because in the Star Wars 'verse, Droids aren't citizens. They're tools and properties. Leia turning off C 3 P 0 is, to them, exactly the same as you turning off your computer when you're done with it or it's acting up, regardless of how ridiculously human he is.
      • Droids aren't sapient. They do a pretty good impression of sapience, but they are not sapient. Everything about them is built to serve their master, they exist only to please. They are programmed with fear to avoid being damaged. They kinda have personalities, but then so do The Sims.
      • In that case why does Padmae have a ceremony to honor and acknowledge R 2 D 2 at the end of EP 1 ? That would be like President giving a metal to a Predator Drone for taking out a terrorist.
      • There have been a 'few' independent droid in the franchise, among them HK-01, HK-47 (in the Rebellion era), G0-T0, IG-88 (and IG-72) and 8t88. It's also to be noted that most droids tend to develop personalities if they go without memory wipes for a few years (like R2-D2 and C-3PO).
  • Interesting point, in Rot J Ben says "It was they who had to save you. You achieved little by rushing back prematurely, I fear." Except that this is totally untrue, because while Luke might have been a burden R2 was essential in their escape, and thus Luke 'did' save his friends in a way.
    • ....did you miss the part where Luke was hanging by one hand, with only one hand, underneath Cloud City and would have died if it weren't for his friends saving his life, as a direct result of running off prematurely?
      • Did you read the part where it was R2 (who arrived with Luke) who repaired the hyperdrive?
      • Obi-Wan probably meant that Luke personally had not acheived much. R2 may have been helpful, but Luke can't really take much credit for that.
      • Luke could take credit for it, since without him, R2 would be uselessly sitting in a swamp. If Luke had obeyed Yoda, the hyperdrive would still be broken, the escape plan would be for nothing, and all of his friends would likely be dead.
      • Obi-Wan wasn't talking about R2. He was talking about Luke. You know, the word "you." "You(as in, you, specifically, Luke) achieved little." R2's presence was incidental. Luke himself accomplished precisely dick.
      • Keep in mind Obi Wan and Yoda weren't right about everything (see: Anakin's continued existence in Vader). Yeah, Luke got himself into a lot of trouble, but as mentioned, if Luke hadn't gone back R2 couldn't have accomplished whatever. Yoda was warning against attachment, namely to Luke's friends, but much of the point of the original trilogy is that love can be a highly effective motivator for Jedi, something Yoda hadn't really bought into. So from a certain point of view, no, Luke had no business going back. From Luke's point of view, his going back, once again, allowed R2 to save the day.
  • The final battle of A New Hope - did they have any backup precautions at all, just in case the attempt to destroy the Death Star didn't work?
    • No. What "backup precautions" could they have come up with? Besides evacuating the base?
    • Yeah, that was an all-or-nothing desperation attack. If it failed, they were screwed.
      • That was pretty much my main issue. What if Vader had just blasted Luke or Han didn't decide to come back? They would've been stuck on a planet that was miliseconds away from getting kaboomed.
      • Which is the entire point of the movie, that the Death Star is so ridiculously OP that, had Luke not pulled off that shot, the rebels would have been wiped out. Are you saying that the main point of the movie bugs you?
      • Yeah, seriously, your problem is that, "If the good guys don't win, the bad guys do." Isn't that pretty much how every dramatic conflict ever works?
      • It's more "why are we sticking around when we know the Death Star is coming?"
      • And where would they go? They're being chased by a world destroying super weapon, an emperor who can predict the future, and the entire military might of a galactic empire. Their options are somewhat limited, and any place they can run to will either be worse off than the Yavin base (not as much time to set up before DS shows up) or inhabited (so a world will die when the base is attacked, something the rebels very much don't want). They're out of options using their last desperate ploy to prevent themselves from being destroyed. Pulling off the torpedo shot from Yavin's base is easier than from any other (gas giant in the way) so going anywhere else would be worse than just hoping for the best.
    • The empire doubtless had the base too surrounded for them to flee.
  • The Clone Wars are Grey And Gray Morality with the "good guys" serving a corrupt government well on its way to becoming The Empire. Padm� even Lampshades this in Revenge Of The Sith when she wonders if they're fighting for the wrong side. So why should we care who wins in any Clone Wars-set works? Both sides suck.
    • The same reason you watch any of the prequel trilogy despite the Downer Ending being a part of the fundamental culture. Not to root for one side and see how they win, but to watch the good guys fall into darkness- not for who or what, but for how. Also, for the special effects, violence and explosions.
    • That's fine for the actual films. Attack Of The Clones and Revenge Of The Sith basically cover the only parts of the Clone Wars which are relevant to the rise of the Empire. But what about everything in the Expanded Universe covering the Clone Wars, especially the works released after 2005 when we knew all the answers?
      • ...I have absolutely no idea. Its being made because of Money Dear Boy, aka moichendizing but no idea why we should care. I know [i]I[/i] don't.
  • Why does Padme present an award to R2 at the end of EP 1 ? As established below droids aren't sapient and aren't considered citizens of the republic - that would be like the President giving a medal to a Predator Drone for taking out a terrorist.
    • The claim that droids are not sapient is debatable, they can clearly make judgements beyond just following orders and according to The Other Other Wiki only the fifth degree labour droids (R2-D2 is second degree) are non-intelligent. As for their legal status, from the same page as above "The Naboo considered higher level droids equal as fellow sentients". Finally, how an individual views droids varies from person to person, Obi-Wan treats them like any other machine, whereas Luke treats the droids like humans. Padme may simply be closer to Luke's end of the scale.
    • Actually it'd be closer to the President decorating a TALON unit for saving his and his staff's lives.
  • A line from Episode III; "You were my brother", I've never really seen Anakin and Obi's relation ship as a brotherly bond, I took as a more father and son thing, why did they try to make it out that they were brothers?
    • The Jedi Order is sorta like a fraternity. They probably all think of each other like brothers. Or you could say they were brothers in arms.
      • The bond between a master and a student tends to be likened to the bond between a parent and a child. Since the Padawan usually has no contact with their family, they only have their master to raise them, so it's natural that they would start to think of them as a parental figure. Once Anakin finished his training however, he and Obi-Wan were constantly paired together to fight in the Clone Wars, now as equals instead of master and apprentice. Wouldn't surprise me that their relationship would change a little. Besides, only Anakin said they were like father and son, while only Obi-Wan considered them brothers, so it could be a difference of opinion (could even reflect their own views on the relationship. Obi-Wan felt they were equals, while Anakin felt Obi-Wan was too bossy and domineering).
  • This has only recently occurred to me, but...Why do no ships smaller than a Star Destroyer have any rear guns? There are so many situations that wouldn't have been much of a problem if they'd had rear guns. Practically every ship destroyed in the battle scenes is attacked from behind, plus it'd help a lot with those pesky seeker missiles that seem to be all the rage with the bad guys. Seriously. Watch the films. Look for rear guns. You will find none, save for on the snowspeeders. While you're at it, count how many ships are destroyed/put into highly dangerous situations from behind. It's a lot. If they can put rear guns on the snow speeders and land vehicles like the AT-T Es, is it really so much effort to put them on everything else and save yourselves a lot of trouble?!
    • CR 90 Corvettes, A-Wings and the Falcon (first three ships smaller than a star destroyer that come to mind) all have turrets that are capable of firing backwards.
    • The vast majority are still missing them. Take Republic drop ships. The backs of them are conspicuously empty, and I can't help but notice that the Geonosian fighters kept attacking and destroying them from behind... I do take your point with the three ships you mentioned, but most starfighters are very badly defended from the back. Naboo starfighters, X-Wings, B-Wings, Y-Wings, ARC-170s, TIE fighters (and their variants), vulture droids, droid tri-fighters (although they had buzz droids) and the various Jedi starfighters spring to mind. A-Wings, as you mentioned, seem to be a rare exception. Firespray-class ships seem to only have those seismic charge things as rear weapons, as well.
      • Firespray's also have turrets that can pivot backwards, and Y-wings have turrets as well. But these are starfighters we're talking about...how many modern fighter planes have rear firing weapons? The point of a fighter is to be manueverable enough to be able to use only forward weapons rather than having to distribute its weapon's equally on all sides.
      • And for the record, ARC-170s and Gunships each have a turret on their back,
    • You think a Star Destroyer has rear-firing guns? No they don't there's no way those turrets can be trained backwards, not with the shape the ships are.
  • Why in 'Empire' don't the Imperials manage to locate the Falcon while its in the asteroid, I mean it flew down a hole a good 50 freakin' metres across, are you trying to tell me that none of the pilots even saw the thing?
    • They probably did find the hole, eventually, but by that point that space slug was likely already there, and their sensors showed it (keep in mind that Imperial war machines likely have more consistantly reliable tech than the cobbled-together Falcon). The idea that the Falcon was inside the slug as anything other than digested dinner likely didn't occur to them.
      • Except that Star Destroyers can detect life-signs (it's seen within the first like 5 minutes), so why not put a couple of fighters down to check on them (they have no trouble with wasting the things in other situations).
      • You mean the asteroid they flew into after all the fighters following them were destroyed? The Imperials didn't know they were in that specific asteroid, they were bombing everything to scare the Falcon out.
      • Except that like 95% of the other asteroids weren't even big enough to contain the Falcon, let alone having handy caves.
      • Yeah, no. There were a lot of big asteroids.
      • Oh lots of big ones, yes, but very few 'big enough' to hide in (certainly not to obscure a SD's sensors). Besides, it doesn't change the fact that none of the convenient caves were actually investigated.
      • How do you know how many asteroids were large enough to hide the Falcon? It's not like we are given a full analysis of the asteroid field, we just see the one that they fly to. There could be thousands of other suitable rocks out there which aren't shown because they are irrelevant to the plot. And even assuming that the TIE fighters can detect life-signs, there is a giant space worm down there which presumably has life signs of its own.
      • Well going from the movie, the asteroid can't be less than several km across (seen here that worm has a diameter of at least 200m based on the size of the Falcon), which would make it kind of noticeable against a background of <1km objects, rather like a cement truck in a carpark. As for detecting them, the Imperials don't seem to be concerned about wasting fighters, so why not just fly a couple into the cave? No, the way they play it, it's all too obvious that they just didn't want the Imperials to find the Falcon just yet, regardless of whether or not it actually makes sense.
      • So they fly a couple of fighters into the cave, see that there's a giant space worm there and nowhere for a ship to hide, and then fly out. As someone said above, the idea that the Falcon would hide inside the worm probably didn't occur to them (or to anyone on board the Falcon for that matter, as soon as they realise where they are they decide to take their chances in the asteroid field). Also, it's difficult to judge the size of all the asteroids given that all we have to compare them to are other asteroids - a giant rock a long way off looks a lot like a small rock close up. Plus we only saw a small part of the asteroid field during the chase sequence, it's not like every large asteroid needs to appear in the background somewhere. I'll grant that most of the rocks were probably too small, but we simply have no way of knowing exactly how many suitable hiding places there were.
      • Except that they'd pick up the Falcon in an instant because they be flying into the mouth of the worm the same way it did. On the size of the asteroids, only passive sensors could be fooled by size and distance variations, active sensors couldn't (they work on time delays), and a SD definitely has active sensors. And as for having too many asteroids choose from, bull, they've been chasing them up to then, the moment they disappear off sensors the SD will get their last recorded position and find the nearest big asteroid in the vicinity (which would just happen to be the one they're hiding in).
      • The only way that the Falcon would be visible from outside of the worm's mouth is if the worm was lying perfectly straight and has a perfectly straight digestive system, and even then the pilots would be looking for something a long way off, in a place they would never expect to see it, in near-total darkness. As for the size of the asteroids, I wasn't saying that the Imperials wouldn't be able to tell what size they are, I was saying that you don't know what size they all are. This whole argument rests on your claim that none of the other asteroids were big enough to hide the Falcon. Note that Han talks about "going in closer to one of the big ones", not "the big one" so clearly there were other options, and he is not shown as having any problem finding one so they presumably aren't that rare.
    • You're all forgetting that a number of asteroids also have metals that make sensors useless (in EU Canon—makes sense, too). And being inside a lifeform will obscure sensors even more, if it were passible. The fact is that the asteroid field has probably a number of large asteroids, and a significant number of large asteroids that can host a ship inside of them—if you assume that the asteroid field is composed of asteroids that fit a distribution that we are familiar with, then yes, there are very definitely many asteroids that the Falcon can hide in.
  • You know, as powerful as the Force is and the Jedi are on a small scale, it just bugs me that they aren't considered a bit obsolete on a strategic level compared to things like Star Destroyers, Death Stars, and other such ludicrously powerful weapons capable of turning the entire surface of planets, or entire planets themselves, to slag. I hate to break it to you, Vader, but the power to destroy a planet is actually significantly more impressive than your ability to choke a guy from a long ways away or fight with a laser sword. As well, we've witnessed quite a number of Jedi taken down even in small-scale combat with fairly modest numbers of normal enemies. In a war that, given the size of the galaxy, could easily involve soldiers fielded in the billions, the relatively small number of Jedi must therefore be somewhat limited in how much effect they can have on a given battle, setting aside rare things like Battle Meditation. In short (too late!), there seems to be an awful lot of undo importance placed on powerful force-users who in most depictions might at best be able to impact a battle as elite shock troopers, but otherwise show no signs of being all that critical to winning.
    • Except for the fact that that huge battle station, capable of taking out an entire planet, was destroyed by...a Force user. And an inexperienced one at that. Vader was pointing out that having the Death Star did not make the Empire invincible, as the officer seemed to believe. Destroying the Death Star required a shot that seemed impossible both to the Empire and theRebellion's best pilots, yet in comes a rookie Jedi and he accomplishes it quite easily.
      • Under very specific circumstances. In order for said force user to one-up the Death Star, he needed technology of his own in the form of an X-Wing fighter, an insanely overconfident Imperial commander who didn't bother to sick swarms and swarms of TIE fighters on him (leaving only Vader's squadron), stolen plans to inform him of a weakness and how to exploit it (one, incidentally, that would not have been there at all had they finished Death Star II), and enough time and wing-mates to pull off the attack. Sure, if you bias the conditions enough, a force user can come across as 'more powerful'; but, if you bias the conditions enough, you could equally make the case for the superiority of the long bow to the machine gun.
      • By "the Force" Vader wasn't referring to the ability to choke people or wield a lightsaber. He was referring to the Force as a whole; as in, the power that binds and guides the universe. It wasn't coincidence that put Luke on the path to destroy the Death Star, or coincidence that got the plans into the hands of Leia (someone else strong in the Force). I believe the EU later expands on the idea, but if you accept it, that means the Force was guiding all of this. That is what Vader is referring to.
      • Vader may also have been referring to political power. Using the Force and assorted dirty tricks, Palpatine manipulated the Senate, Jedi, and much of the galaxy into giving him power, eventually becoming Emperor of a totalitarian Empire by way of existing legal mechanisms. The Death Star, meant to do away with the relatively few militant dissenters, might have been reasonably effective against overt rebels. However, it's essentially a reactive tool without the possibility of subtle control, making it less important than the Force in shaping the galaxy to Palpatine's will.
      • Also keep in mind this film came out before Jedi Knights starting suffering The Worf Effect at the hands of many writers.
      • Also, Jedi have in their power the ability to diffuse conflicts before they happen and some of them have the unique ability to create Xanatos Gambits because of their ability to sense intentions or see the future. They were tactically important because they were... wait for it... tacticians. That, and the ability to rule a planet is far more useful than the ability to blow one up.
  • Why isn't Chewbacca given a medal at the end of A New Hope? He put in as much effort into helping Luke as Han did and I even remember him protesting Han's decision to not help the Rebels, so why would they not acknowledge that? (In response to my own question which came to me as this entry was being written, it was probably Chewie's decision to not have a medal awarded, maybe he didn't like medals.)
    • Because he's a dirty Wookie. Look, we were all thinking it.
    • Uhm. It was because he was too tall. The Princess is very short and would have looked very stupid putting a medal around his neck. They gave him his medal later. Outside the ceremony.
  • What DOESN'T lead to the Dark Side? (I think Spoony asked this first, and I can't find the same question on this page.) Is there a list somewhere of stuff that won't lead you down the path of unrighteousness according to Lucas? It's probably just me, but Yoda seems to always be warning about stuff that leads to the Dark Side, but never gives any hints at what WON'T. How can we avoid the Dark side, and why should we avoid it in the first place?
    • What doesn't lead to it? Meditation, passivity, selflessness, understanding, kindness, safe they are. It is hatred, vengeance, greed, selfishness that lead to the dark side, hmm, yes. Why should we avoid it? Because The Dark Side Makes You Forget. But with great power comes great responsibility, and the higher you are, the lower you fall. The more you use the force, the more powerful you are and the higher your midi-chlorian count, the more susceptible to the dark side you are. The average Joe off the street has nothing to worry about other than the usual psychological issues; its those strong in the force who must police their thoughts and actions meticulously.
  • this may have been answered already, but here goes. Let's say for instance that Mace and his 3 buddies managed to arrest palpatine and bring him before court. I don't know ho the law works in their galaxy, but what exactly would they charge palpatine with?
    • Treason? Conspiring with the enemy? Conspiracy? And I imagine Being A Sith Lord is probably at the very least frowned upon as traits for the head of the Galactic Republic.
    • This has been discussed above, but it is entirely conceivable that being a Sith is illegal in the Republic, as the Jedi were very involved in its creation. Also, he started a civil war.
  • Is there any valid reason as to why Darth Vader is still in his suit by the time the events of the original trilogy start? I mean seriously you would think that they could have cloned him new arms and legs, and then of course replace his damaged skin and internal organs, especially of note being to clone him new lungs so he can breath without the internal respirator they installed to allow his burned lungs to take in air. I mean sure growing cloned body parts is expensive and it takes time for new body parts to settle in once they are grafted, especially the limbs that Vader would have to go through physical therapy for months to learn how to use all over again, but Vader is second in command to the Emperor money is not an issue and 20 years between the two trilogies is more then enough time for him to let the cloned body parts adapt to his flesh, which by the way being 100% the same genetically as him are practically rejection proof so he won't have to worry about losing the grafted body parts. Hell if you accept Expanded Universe canon then Palpatine knows how to transfer his spiritual essence into cloned bodies, can't really understand why he wouldn't share that with Vader, which would be faster then fixing his original broken body, and get his apprentice back up to his Chosen One status as being the most powerful Force user who ever lived since his injuries according to George Lucas are what hinders him from reaching that status. In short there is no good scientifically based reason why the cloning technology of Star Wars couldn't heal Darth Vader and remove him from the suit he is encased in, which I'm sure Vader would be happy to be out of.
    • The short answer is that the Emperor wants him kept in the robotic body as a way of keeping him on the leash.
      • Yeah I figured that part already, but I still don't like the idea of Darth Vader acting like he is stuck in that suit forever when there were clearly alternatives available. And besides the Emperor's behavior regarding his stance on whether he will be taken over by Vader as Emperor of the Galactic Empire and become the Sith Master of the Sith Order varies, sometimes he expresses glee at the idea of Vader realizing his maximum potential even to his own peril and at other times he expresses a desire to be in control of his Empire and have Darth Vader as his personal enforcer forever, so Darth Sidious's stance on the matter is inconsistent especially when it comes to his clones in Expanded Universe that a man who intended to die wouldn't have. Regardless of the Emperor's intentions that doesn't explain why Darth Vader doesn't use cloning technology on himself in secret, he doesn't have to heal all of his wounds in one setting he can clone an arm one year for example and then replace his other arm the next year, that way he can slowly but surely work himself back up to a fully organic man and his master Darth Sidious would be none the wiser to the organic body under the suit.
      • Yeah, but Vader is psychologically broken already. He just doesn't have it in him at that point to oppose the Emperor, even in secret. It's only after Luke's influence that he starts to turn against Palpatine.
    • Rule Of Cool. I'm also not entirely sure Palpatine is too into empowering his apprentice. Palpatine would also be aware of the fact that Vader is regaining body parts, I'm more than sure. Sure, Palpatine has conflicting emotions regarding Vader reaching his true potential, but Palpatine ultimately wants power.
    • Yeah but The Force Unleashed 2 has complicated things even further. Vader is shown cloning Galen Marek, or Starkiller as he was codenamed, with the intention of reviving his apprentice and have a more obedient version of him to use against the Emperor. Vader obviously isn't afraid of going behind the Emperor's back... so can someone tell me why he didn't use that cloning technology on himself while he was cloning Starkiller?
      • Do we know why Vader is cloning Starkiller yet? In the original game he seemed to be going behind the emperor's back, but was really working for him all along.
  • Also what is this nonsense about Darth Vader's original potential as becoming the most powerful Force user ever, according to George Lucas being capable of being twice as powerful as Emperor Palpatine, being reduced due to his injuries? According to George Lucas thanks to having his remaining good arm and both his legs cut off and subsequently being burned nearly to death on the shore of lava river Darth Vader is now only 80% percent as powerful as Palpatine is. The logic behind this is obviously that the reduced physical organic mass of Darth Vader's body has also reduced the amount of midi-chlorians (a chemical that flows through a Force user's body that aids in their connection to the Force, they are the energy field that connects and binds the galaxy together that Obi-Wan talked about) that run through his body and thus his connection to the Force, which requires organic matter to be generated by, has been hampered or reduced significantly. Essentially midi-chlorians give a Force user their ability to use the Force, so the less of them you have the less powerful you are. There are two problems with this:
    • First off if the size of one's organic matter had anything to do with the amount of Force power that they wield then Yoda, who by the way is still smaller than Darth Vader even when organically speaking he only has a torso and a head remaining since his limbs were amputated at the elbows and knees, who is very small should not be one of the most powerful Jedi Masters in the history of the Jedi Council who is only later outclassed by Luke Skywalker when he takes the role of Grand Master. By this logic a Jedi should want to be fat or something like that so that they have more organic matter for midi-chlorians to flow through and thus become more powerful, the logic obviously falls apart in this regard, especially when Yoda specifically mentions that luminous beings are we (everyone in the galaxy), it is not about this crude matter called flesh that determines the power that the Force can grant you. And even if you disregard Yoda (I wouldn't since he tends to know what he is talking about though even he makes mistakes I will admit), the prequels establish that midi-chlorians are about the concentration per cell that determine a Force user's potency in tapping into the Force. So in Vader's remaining organic body he still has 20,000 midi-chlorians per cell just as he did before he was encased in the suit, so seeing as Yoda who is smaller than Vader and has less midi-chlorians was able to fight on par with Emperor Palpatine there is no reason why Vader shouldn't be able to reach a level beyond either of them.
      • Secondly Yoda says to Luke that size matters not, that if your mind can envision it and you remove all mental barriers in your mind saying, "You cannot do this.", then the amount of things you can accomplish with the Force is limitless. By this logic there is no reason why despite Vader's physical discomfort and limitations in the suit (over the 20 years between the trilogies he modifies his suit to make things slightly more comfortable and eventually adapts his powers and lightsaber techniques to the suit learning to use it to his advantage so ultimately despite his injuries Vader becomes the second most powerful Sith Lord in Galactic history next to Palpatine, which is extremely impressive) that he couldn't reach the god-like status that Emperor Palpatine foretold when he said to Yoda, "Lord Vader shall become more powerful than either of us.", so long as Vader reached out to the Force and trained his mind to think, "I am more powerful than my master Darth Sidious.", he should be able to reach that pinnacle. Palpatine actually views this as a very valid point believing that despite Vader's injuries he could awaken the monstrous potential hidden within him so long as he accepts what he has become and gives himself over to the Dark Side completely, the problem ironically is that no matter how hard Vader tries that little piece of good, of Anakin Skywalker continues to live on which his son Luke Skywalker is able to fully awaken later on. So basically Vader is not hampered so much by his injuries but rather his weakness is in his own mind, Vader over the course of the 20 years between the two trilogies was never able to fully accept what he had done and what he had become, the barriers he had set up in his mind stopped him from becoming everything that he could be.
    • Concerning the issue of number of midichlorians and that Yoda shouldn't be so strong because he's so small, I figure it's to do with potential. Anakin had the potential to become a super powerful Force user, but never reached that level. Yoda may have had less, it's even said so in TPM, but he had had centuries of training, plenty of time to fully realise his potential. And perhaps it's not an issue of your exact number of midichlorians but rather, if you lost a body part, what matters is how high the percentage of midichlorians you've lost is. Anakin lost half an arm in episode 2 and he was still a strong fighter. Luke lost one hand in episode 5 and he was still a strong figther. But Yoda was all natural. And whose to say that being small means you have less midichlorians than someone whose bigger? It could just mean your midichlorians are more concentrated while a larger person's midichlorians are more spaced out.
    • When was it said that the reduction in potential was caused by a lack of organic mass? There are any number of ways that the absolutely horrific injuries that Vader suffered could have weakened him so why assume the one possiblity that is so obviously contradicted by the rest of the franchise? Also, regarding the idea of mental barriers, while the right frame of mind is important it isn't the be all and end all of Force powers. Palpatine couldn't just think his way to ruling the galaxy, nor could Yoda imagine the Empire away. The injuries may have been enough that even with the perfect mental state Vader wouldn't have been quite as powerful as Palpatine (who after all probably has a pretty good mentality for a Sith himself).
    • Word of God from George Lucas is that Anakin had the potential to be twice as powerful as Emperor Palpatine had he not been injured by Obi-Wan, but having his arm and legs sliced off and being burned nearly to death caused too much of his living matter to be destroyed for him to reach that potential, now he is only 80% of what Palpatine is which is impressive in its own right. To put things into perspective Emperor Palpatine is the most powerful Sith in the entire history of the Sith Order, Darth Vader could have been the most powerful Force user in Sith or Jedi history had he reached his potential. However George Lucas saying that confirms that losing mass equals loss of Force ability and overall potential, but this is contradicted by the films in which they say it is the concentration of midi-clorians per cell not total count that determines the amount of Force power one can wield. Besides even if it was total count and how much mass you have as was said earlier Vader is bigger than Yoda who is able to fight on par with Palpatine, and thus should be capable of reaching a level on par if not beyond Palpatine.

      • And in regards to Yoda's "mind over matter" philosophy, that should be perfectly valid, if Vader can quiet his mind and concentrate on his priorities he can drive through all the roadblocks between him and his master Palpatine. This is showcased in Shadows of the Empire when Vader taps into the Dark Side and regenerates all the damage that had been dealt to his lungs, organs and skin, and he can feel himself becoming stronger where he is muses that he is nearly on par with Palpatine, but then his healed state reminds him of what he use to be like as Anakin and the light side of the Force begins to flow through him and reverses the regeneration process. So Vader's limitations were caused by him not being able to fully tap into the Dark Side, there was always the memory of how good he use to be that prevented him from fully falling into the Sith life style. He could have been the master, but Vader's mindset was his true weakness not his injuries.
  • The whole Padme assasination plot in AOTC is WallBangeringly full of fail on both sides:
    • Why did Padme sleep in a room with a huge window despite being targeted?
      • It was a ploy on her part to draw out the killer. Anakin said so himself. She had two Jedi sensing everything that was happening in the room.
      • And Obi-Wan went along with this insane idea despite being in charge of her security and opposed to the idea of assassin-hunting because...?
      • He didn't go along with it. He stepped out to check on the building's security and by the time he got back, Padme and Anakin had already planned things out. He even states that it's too risky, but probably ultimately agreed reluctantly. Remember, both he and Anakin could sense what was happening in the room and we clearly see it pay off when they sense the insects.
      • So a Master Jedi and a chief bodyguard allowed his apprentice and his defendee to plan out an obviously flawed defence strategy and didn't insist (if neccessarily, enforced) that the things are done the right way because...? As for their keen senses, if Jango and Zam weren't such dumbheads and armed the droid with a gun or explosives, their senses would've done squat.
    • Why wasn't anybody or anything patroling the exterior of the building and why wasn't there any outer surveliance over the Senator's room?
      • Again, probably part of Padm�'s plan. Patrolling guards would discourage the assassin from trying. She felt safe enough with two Jedi watching out for her.
    • How could R 2 D 2 not see a droid cutting a hole in the window?
      • R 2 D 2 was using laser grid sensor, not the camera thing. This allowed him to survey the entire room at once, with the drawback of missing small things, like poisonous bugs.
      • And he didn't use both a sensor and and a camera because...? Besides, "little things" he missed were not bugs - it was an effing robot cutting an effing hole in the effing window!
      • We don't know the camera would've been effective in that lighting; keep in mind that room is much darker than what we see on account of we're the audience.
      • I doubt that a room with lighted by a huge bustling city through a semi-shaded top-to-floor window would've been especially dark, but regardless, were there no night-vision optics in that wretched universe? R 2 D 2 could lack those but we're talking about pre-planned security measures and they didn't care about efficient surveliance? And please, don't mention that "draw-out plan", it's not funny any more.
      • It probably wouldn't make sense to blind R2, but the plan itself is just kinda part of the movie. Obi-Wan actually calls Anakin out on it. So...no, that isn't a joke. Anyway, as the thinking goes, why bother when you have that laser grid sensor? They weren't exactly counting on death by bug, and you can't honestly say you would've expected that in that situation.
      • When you're in charge and you don't like what your subordinate/dependants are doing, you don't "call them out" or some shit like that - you force them to do what's right. As to "why bother" - because that effing grid didn't allow R 2 D 2 to watch over the effing window! Seriously, how else an assassin was supposed to attack if not through the window?
    • Why did Jango need an accomplice for? Neither he nor her were involved in the plan personally, so what's the point?
      • If you're gonna break the law, it doesn't hurt to have someone else do it for you.
      • "Breaking the law" on her part consisted in purchasing a droid, receiving a can of worms from Jango, putting it into the droid and programming it with a delivery mission. Which exactly part of this devious plan Jango couldn't carry out personally without risk of compromise? Since Jango'd already obtained the much more conspicous venomous worms, I doubt he'd get into much trouble with humble droid. He only had to add that magic "droid self-destructs" part into the plan and Jedi would've been left with no leads whatsoever.
    • Why did they use such an impossibly convoluted and unreliable weapon as venomous centipedes? Why not equip the droid with a gun, a missle or poison gas? Hell, use a bigger droid and ram the window and then have the droid explode!
      • A gun or a missile would have attracted attention. Even if Padme was killed, the Jedi would have been alerted and Jango would risk capture. Poison gas would have taken longer, they probably wanted to be as quick as possible.
      • Attracted attention HOW? Droid comes, droid shoots (even if they don't have silenced weapons, it could use one of those wonderful darts), droid self-destroys. Done. Padme is dead, no evidences, no leads, Jedi are in shit.
      • C'mon, Rule Of Cool. This is Star Wars, remember?
      • Yeah, I do! And I also remeber that in 99,9% of Star Wars cases Rule Of Cool means Stuff Blowing Up and Frickin Laser Beams. And for a good reason - those things WORK. All the time. Even sometimes on Jedi. The venomous centipeds don't. And they're gross. Leave them to The Mummy Trilogy, they fit in there.
    • How did they know where Padme's room was?
      • She's former queen and Republic senator, her home is probably a well known location.
      • And Obi-Wan didn't think of relocating her because...?
      • Drawing-out plan, remember?
      • See above.
      • And...?
      • Obi-Wan was in charge of the security. Obi-Wan was not into hunting assassins. Obi-Wan should've turned thumb down on that drawning-out sharade and relocate Padme to a safer chamber.
    • Why didn't the droid self-destroy immediately upon completion of the task but instead returned back to the assassin?
      • Droids are expensive. You don't want to destroy it unless you have to.
      • They are hired assassins. They can just include the price of the droid in the bill. And Zam could at least programm it to go to some other place she could collect it from after she made sure it wasn't followed (or accompanied by a hanging Jedi).
      • Wasn't part of this whole argument "why didn't the droid record its progress so Jango could make sure it succeeded?" Pick one. It's perfectly feasible they didn't want to risk a remote feed of a stealth assassination.
      • I pick self-destruction. There are other means to monitor the scene (Zam apparently watched over the landing pad since the bombe only exploded when "Padme" emerged from the ship). But destroying an evidence and a possible lead is crucial. It's just is.
    • Why did both Jedi leave Padme although the assassination attempt could've been a distraction?
      • Obi-Wan acted on a reflex, probably trusting Anakin to stay behind. Anakin of course, acted without thinking.
    • Why didn't Jango use the first assassination attempt as a distraction and finish the job?
      • He had no way of knowing the first attempt was botched.
      • And he didn't oversee the assassination attempt to confirm that it was successful because...?
      • Because he didn't think he had to micro-manage when Zam was presumably one of the best?
      • For a galaxy-class hitman that's just sloppy, Lord Voldemort-type sloppy. I could buy that if Zam made a hit personally, but she relied on a droid. Droids malfunction, they can be scrammed or EMP'd or whatever, they won't be able to skew from the programm in unforeseen situation (like NOT return to the sender with a Jedi stowaway). Long story short, they require oversight, and anyway how difficult could it be to put a camera somewhere near the palace to keep an eye on things?
      • Two things here: one, Zam was overseeing the droid; if you argue Jango HAS to oversee her, you risk going into a "Turtles all the Way Down" argument. Two, who says it wasn't recorded?
      • One, she didn't. In the novel she admits that she has no idea if the droid succeeded. Two, we are trying to kill a senator here! Some redundancy and back-up plans are simply called for. Anyway, what better things had Jango to do? Sit on his armored ass with his fingers crossed?
    • Why did Zam try to kill Obi-Wan instead of just leaving? She had a nice head start and they were obviously very dangerous.
      • She had no way of knowing that Anakin was on the way. As far as she knew, Obi-Wan was as good as dead.
      • The question is why would she try to kill him. For all she knows he's just a bodyguard and bodyguards are replaceable. Why take the risk?
      • Who bodyguard who might follow her and expose her. Best to leave no witnesses.
      • 1) Killing him would leave a whole bar full of witnesses and attract Anakin's attention. 2) Unlike Anakin Obi never saw her in face and was just sitting there at the counter swizzling. 3) The duo arrived to the bar about a minute after Zam. More then enough time to walk through the back door (such joints ought to have one), shapeshift, maybe grab some rags to conceal herself, maybe tell Jango (who's nearby) to come and pick her up - ANYTHING would've been smarter then what she did.
    • After the Jedi took the assasin out of the joint why didn't Jango fire a missle at them or at least a gun, but instead used a unique dart that would allow tracking him back to a particular planet?
      • Firing a dart that moves faster than the human eye can see is much better than firing a missile that moves much slower. Considering the people he's shooting at, firing a missile would likely be pointless. As for why not use a blaster, I guess he figured the poisonous dart was safer. People can survive getting shot with a laser, but the poison spreads through your body pretty fast.
      • Yeah, because so many people throughout the SW movies survived a laser blast in the chest...oh, wait, no, they didn't, nobody did! In particular, Jango killed a huge beast with a single shot from his handgun (admittedly, point-blank) and the assassin blasted a droid with her rifle. So I'd say a laser blast is much safer than a dart that must hit an exposed part of skin at that. And even if Jango absolutely had to use a dart, why did it have to be a dart custom-made on the very planet he resided on? He could as well throw his business card at them.
      • Firstly a shot from a Star Wars laser gun is relatively slow. If the Jedi sensed it coming, they would have enough time to deflect it. Secondly, Jango probably knew the analysis droids wouldn't be able to trace his dart, he just didn't count on Obi-Wan having an old friend who knew about it. Plus he probably knew that Dooku had erased Kamino's location from the archive.
      • Did Jango even know who those two guys were and what they were capable of?
      • He'd be a pretty bad assassin if he didn't know that Jedis were guarding his quarry.
    • After they see Jango flying away, why don't they hurry to Obi's speeder and chase him? Anakin managed to pinpoint the assassin girl in the middle of busy traffic, dozens of meters away with enough precision to literally drop on her head so why do they suddenly let Jango escape?
      • Obi-Wan's speeder is on the other side of the cantina with a large crowd of people creating numerous obstacles. By the time they got to it, Jango would be far away. He's much smaller than a speeder and would make a much less distinctive sound.
      • That's rich. I mean, a Jedi can jump a dozen meters up, run super fast, force-push things out of their way, navigate through an obstacle course from hell and battle monsters bare-handed, but people? Yeah, that's insurmountable, all right. Most importantly, they've just spent the last twenty minutes doing the most crazy and suicidal stunts to hunt the assassins down, and now they just lay off and say "Nah, screw him, he's, like, too far, and there are, like, people and stuff in the way, we'll get'em next time, let's go grab a beer"?!!
      • Consider that Jedi are "keepers of the peace." Assassin or no, it doesn't reflect well on the Order to force push a bunch of civilians out of the way. Consider they were on the ground, no vehicle around them, and Jango was in fact flying away. They're really good at chasing people; they can't just fly under their own power, however.
      • It's not like those people were going to sue or even call out the order over some bruises. As for Jango flying away, gimme a break. They had their wonderful Jedi senses, they could contact the local law enforcers (if they are "keepers of peace" they simply must have some authority), they could do SOMETHING. The point is, they've just spent the last twenty minutes doing the most crazy and suicidal stunts to hunt the assassins down, so what, did they suddenly run out of ardour?
  • Why does Leia call Chewbacca a "walking carpet" in A New Hope considering that it sounds like an ethnic slur aimed at Wookiees in general and Chewbacca is clearly a sapient being? I would imagine that an important person in the Rebel Alliance would be more respectful to nonhumans who are fighting against the Empire.
    • Cuz she's annoyed and angry.
    • My guess is her bad mood might have something to do with the fact that she <i>just witnessed everyone she ever knew and loved being blown to bits</i>. You'd be a little testy too.
  • How did the clone army manage to invade Genosis without alerting their defences whatsoever? It looks as though the intervention of the gunboats in the middle of the arena took the bad guys completely by surprise. So are we to assume they just sprang out of Warp ten meters away? Or that all the planetary guards took a day off to watch the "Eat the Jedi" show and turned the automatics off so that it doesn't disturb them? Or that massive ships carrying thousands of soldiers simply...slipped through to the surface like the Jedi did before them?
    • There's a space battle occurring in orbit during the Battle of Geonosis. The Republic forces simply outnumbered the Separatist forces enough for them to engage them on both fronts.
      • I guessed that much. The question is how come nobody warned Duku and the others. Bypassing planetary defences of a major industrial world should take some time even despite superior numbers. Certainly if Duku knew that an imperial strike force was on its way he wouldn't have wasted time offering them to surrender and instead would've just let the droids gun them down. Also, why are there no geonosian and/or Federation airforces?
      • There are? The air battle is happening off-screen. Mobility of Star Wars forces are excellent, and a major part of combat involves jamming of communications and sensors. It's not impossible that there was a failure of communications between the early warning systems and the arena.
      • It's all fine except that immediately afterwards, in the underground headquarters, we see a holoscreen pinpointing the descending clone troops and vessels. So nope, no jamming there.
    • If you played the Star Wars: Clone Wars Game for the gamecube, in the first few missions, Mace and Luminara led the Jedi strike force along with the clones, but there was a shield covering the planet, which the Clone Forces couldn't get through. They had to use Tanks to destroy the shield generator to let the clones land, while the Jedi snuck into the arena. Anyway, I always assumed that possibly Dooku was expecting the Jedi and clones to show up and had Nute Gunray and the others occupied. Also, I assumed that the battles across the planet had started immediately alongside the Jedi battle within the arena, but Yoda and the clones couldn't get to the arena in time because they had to first pinpoint the arena.
  • I had a problem with the way that Obi-Wan beat Anakin at the shores of that lava river on Mustafar. Not so much that he was able to dismember his limbs (ironically being able to cut off legs is easier when you are the same level as your opponent, but not impossible) thanks to Anakin jumping directly over him, especially since Obi-Wan is supposed to the best user of Form III in Galactic history which is a defensive lightsaber technique that focuses on waiting out your opponent until they expose an opening for you to strike at and Anakin's jump was just such an opening, but my problem is that the moment Obi-Wan jumped on the shore and took the high ground he acted like Anakin had no other option but to accept defeat and that there WAS NO WAY THAT HE COULD CONTINUE. Anakin had a few options outside of just letting that vehicle float further down the lava stream and make a tactical retreat, he could have used a force push and then jump, use force lightning (something he is portrayed as being able to use in some other stories), throw a lightsaber, jump to another side of the shore and run up the shore, or you know jump WAY OVER Obi-Wan's head so he can land safely behind him and then drive him down against the lava bank. What makes it even worse is that not some 14 years ago Obi-Wan did not have the advantage of the high ground against Maul who did have the high ground advantage against him and is able to cut him in half despite his disadvantage, it just pisses me off that the high ground only matters when Obi-Wan has it which makes it sound like Obi-Wan won simply because the plot demanded it. I mean sure you can say that in both cases Maul and Anakin were defeated by their own arrogance but just because a Sith becomes angry and is over-confident in his skills shouldn't mean that his cognitive abilities needed to form strategies is going to be compromised, Maul should have been quite capable of cutting Obi-Wan into pieces as he jumped up to land on solid ground and Anakin should have been able to find alternatives to jumping directly over Obi-Wan's head (which by the way as shown in one alternative ending as a risky 50/50 move that could have spelled defeat for either warrior as Anakin is shown impaling Obi-Wan through the chest when he manages to land, Obi-Wan was just able to strike first canonically speaking) regardless of any overconfidence that both of them had, and especially when both Sith warriors were able to dominate Obi-Wan for the majority of their respective battles.
    • I think the idea is that Anakin personally has a particular weakness when it comes to height differences in battle. Also Obi-Wan was likely reading Anakin's body language and could see he was preparing to leap. Remember he knows Anakin's battle style inside and out. He knows exactly what Anakin is about to try and do and he knows exactly how to counter it and he knows Anakin isn't going to to think of anything else because he's so impulsive.
    • I understand that Obi-Wan knew Anakin's style inside and out as the novelization of Episode III says that they have thousands of hours of training between the two of them where they have been sparing for well over a decade together with their lightsabers. It is thanks to this factor that allows both of them to fight for as long as they did without either of them being able to make a decisive blow, they knew how to counter each other, but as you see during the battle Obi-Wan is visibly starting to get tired and he knows that he can't wait Anakin out and so he decides to retreat to the high ground. Now where it gets bad for Anakin is that he is a very arrogant and impulsive person, but the Expanded Universe has shown Anakin in the Clone Wars as being an expert strategist and one of the best lightsaber duelists in the Galaxy being said to be on the same tier as Yoda (Yoda's force power was still superior regardless). I just thought it was stupid that his anger at Obi-Wan for quote, "Underestimating his power.", blinded him to the degree that it cost him the duel when he otherwise should have been capable of winning. How did the Sith last as long as they did if they are so impulsive in battle?
      • I think in this situation Anakin was in an unusually high emotional state. He thinks his wife and best friend have been working together to kill him, the Jedi, in his mind, have been revealed as traitors, he's probably still reeling from all the terrible things he's done. He's simply in a state of mind where he's not thinking as clearly as he would have been during the Clone Wars.
      • Consider the fact that the "rule of two" exists because the Sith were so emotionally compromised and reckless that they literally wiped themselves out down to one guy. The Sith are thought to be extinct for a long time, and Darth Maul was the first Sith the Order had encountered in that time. Also note that Palpatine almost succeeded in turning Luke to the Dark Side (after Luke's Dark Side-fueled frenzy attack) until his emotions got the best of him and got Luke to snap out of it. I think it's safe to say utter abandon is an inherent hazard of being a Sith.
    • I think that what Obi Wan is doing is deliberately taunting Annakin by speaking as though he somehow wouldn't have a chance from the low ground. (Damn is the typing slow when the page is this long!) It's like if you and I were in a martial arts fight, and you were already on the verge of a blind rage, and all I had to do is say, "Come on, now, you know there's no way you're going to win this fight now, attacking from that stance!" for you to go over the edge and lose control of your technique, allowing me to take you down.
  • Why did the Emperor order all combat droids to be shut down? Droids are extremely useful in combat. Unquestioning loyalty, no organs so they're more durable. No time spent to train them, only programs loaded in, and you don't have to pay droids either.
    • I believe Palpatine said that so there wouldn't be any usurps for control if any of the Seperatist generals found out that the leaders were dead..
      • That made no sense. The battle droids are just mindless machines. They're not going to usurp anybody.
      • No, but the Seperatist generals, who aren't droids, could take control of the droids and try to usurp.
      • Yep, and indeed several do fight on after the war. There's also the conundrum of the Orange Panthacs that either didn't get ceactivated,or got reactivated afterwards and the forgotten about (although why they were there in the first place is itslf a mystery)
  • "Two there are, no more, no less." I understand no more than two, but no less? There very easily could've been less. In fact, there was less than two when Yoda said that, because Obi Wan just killed one. For all they knew, Darth Maul could've been a Master (they didn't know if he was apprentice or master) who'd had his aprrentice killed in unrelated matters.
    • I don't think it's meant to be taken 100% literally. It means that the Sith always strive to have two members. If one dies, the survivor will immediately be looking for an apprentice. So even though Maul was dead, Yoda knew that a replacement would be in place soon enough.
      • Which is exaclt my point. How do they know that Maul was one of two? For all they knew, Maul could've just killed his master, making him the only one. Or Maul could've been a master with a dead apprentice.
      • Historically (going by the Darth Bane novels, which are the sort of definative source on the rule of two) it was traditional for the apprentice to find an apprentice themselves before killing the master. The search for an apprentice while still an apprentice was a plot point in one of the novels.
      • Basically Yoda's just saying "don't get your hopes up". Even though one Sith is dead, it's almost 100% guaranteed that there's still another one out there. Maul could have been the only one had he killed his master and hadn't found his own apprentice yet, but they weren't willing to bet on unlikely odds.
  • When Luke first goes to Yoda for training Obi-wan urges Yoda to help Luke by pointing out that he, Obi-wan, was also reckless in his youth. So where exactly is that ever shown in the prequel movies? In the first movie he's practically the moderate voice to Qui-gon's attitude of clashing with the rules. Admittedly by this point Obi-wan has been training for quite some time, but if he was studying with Qui-gon shouldn't that have made him more reckless?
    • Remember that jump through the window to cath a droid in A Ot C?
      • Plus Obi-Wan's probably referring more to his time before he was a Padawan, just a student at the academy. Considering in ESB he mentions that Yoda taught him, I imagine Obi-Wan was more reckless as a child and then lesson from Yoda, maybe even personal one to one lessons, turned him into the straight laced, by the book character we see in TPM.
    • How about Obi Wan defying the Jedi council to train Anakin even though everyone except Qui Gon thought it was a bad idea? Promise or not, that was a big leap for him. He might have been punted out of the Order for it. There was also the time in the bar in Clones when they were chasing the assassin where he allows her a free shot at his back in order to draw her out.
  • When Padme asks Obi-wan about the investigation of her ship blowing up, he protests that it isn't in their mandate. Fair enough, he was assigned to guard her. But at no point does he or anybody else state that an investigation is being handled by anyone else. Doesn't Coruscant have a law enforcement agency? Isn't anyone interested in finding out how an assassin could target an important figure like her twice (even if both sides really botched it the second time)?
    • I think another section of the Jedi Order was carrying out the investigation at first. When Padm� first meets with the council, she asks if they have any ideas who was behind the attack and Mace says their intelligence pointed to spice miners on Naboo, indicated that they were carrying out an investigation.
      • Fair enough, but why doesn't Obi-wan just say that? He never once says 'a different section of the Order is handling that', his only response to her request is to state that it isn't his job. Considering that he's a respected Jedi Knight guarding a VIP you would think he would have been properly briefed by the Council.
  • I know for movies sake that Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Padme had to be rescued, but why did Mace takeover 200 jedi just to rescue 2 Jedi and a senator? Are their lives that important?
    • They were part of the advance force. The Clone Army followed behind them, and they were hoping to capture the Separatist leadership as well.
    • Plus, Anakin is the "chosen one", at least as far as certain people believe.
  • How are the Rebel alliance engineers the only ones to notice a massive design flaw in the Death Star that would allow a simple missle shot that would set off a chain reaction leading to total destruction? I know that the shot was nearly impossible to make, but why even leave the chance? If the Empire engineers did notice the flaw, why wouldn't the commander at least set a whole contigent of fighters to guard the port or have some type of shielding device placed around it? Especially after the first pilot misses, why not divert some attention over there?
    • Firstly, it can't be shielded because that would eliminate its usefulness. Secondly, the engineers did figure it out, and the only reason the empire 'didn't' launch a whole contingent of fighters is because the senior commander was an arrogant, over-confident So B who wouldn't accept that there was a problem, even when he was warned about it.
    • The only suggestion made by the characters in the film is to have a shuttle waiting for the commander to board in case of emergency, which he refuses as it makes him look weak and vulnerable. A commander of his stature wouldn't blatantly ignore an obvious threat. Also, one could have put a flimsy steel grating over the vent which would have stopped a missle from entering (would have caused a surface detonation instead of an internal detonation) without compromising the quality of the vent. T His troper, while a graduate of computer science, is certainly no engineer, so for him to spot it and the galaxy's elite engineers (one can assume) is ridiculous. For an army this "powerful", these are rookie mistakes. Arrogant or not, a commander of this stature wouldn't be so oblivious as to send absolutely no fighters. A cocky commander would send only a few or only his "secret weapon", not nothing. Yes Vader shows up, but only to settle the score with Luke, not necessarily to save the station.
      • The only suggestion made by the characters in the film is to have a shuttle waiting for the commander to board in case of emergency, which he refuses as it makes him look weak and vulnerable. A commander of his stature wouldn't blatantly ignore an obvious threat. You honestly think that the upper echelons of a military officer corps built around an ass-kiss-ocracy directly under an autocratic ruler won't have arrogant, self-obsessed idiots in command? There's a reason why someone like Thrawn, who puts personal pride and advancement behind actually winning was so strange in the Empire.
      • Also, one could have put a flimsy steel grating over the vent which would have stopped a missle from entering (would have caused a surface detonation instead of an internal detonation) without compromising the quality of the vent. Considering the amount of heat being pumped out of the vent, it would have to be one hell of a grating to keep from melting; this thing is venting the exhaust of a reactor that powers a weapon that kills planets.
      • So you contend that the entire space station, which is the size of our moon, is cooled by ONE vent, roughly the circumfrence of a mini-van? There are obviously other vents to alleviate the internal heat, meaning the heat out of this vent should not be too tough. Also, guess what the vent itself is made up of? Metal! Use the same metal for the grating and you're done, since the walls of the vent obviously aren't melting.
      • Actually, the port in question isn't even the main one. Its a secondary vent directly below the "main" vent. The main vent appears to be heavily-armored, and probably does have a grating over it to protect it from direct fire, as they don't even consider firing on it. I get the impression they didn't bother armoring the secondary vent because hitting it with precision-guided torpedoes through the jamming and incoming enemy fire.
      • Eh, its kind of the equivalent of a tank having an impregnable armor that can only potentially be penetrated by a soldier approaching it and jamming a gun into an extremely small hole and shooting. Its so small that it literally cannot be hit at anything beyond point blank range. And the briefing already made it clear that the Empire didn't even consider one-man fighters to be any threat., "otherwise they would have a tighter defense." The engineers and planners who built the Death Star probably didn't even factor in the (rather ridiculous) possibility that a one-man fighter could get through the defenses and the fighters protecting the Death Star to hit a tiny, nearly-impossible-to-hit target.
      • Yes Vader shows up, but only to settle the score with Luke, not necessarily to save the station. wat. Vader didn't even know Luke existed, let alone that he was part of the squad attacking the Death Star.
    • Tarkin isn't a starfighter pilot, and he underestimated a starfighter's capability to make it through his station's defenses and even reach the exhaust port. Vader, the ace pilot, knew full well it was possible and got out there himself as soon as he realized what the rebels were doing; at this point he has nothing personal against Luke, and indeed doesn't even know who he is.
    • It's not just an underestimation, it's purely inconceivable. The fact reamins that a station of this size and caliber had a random hole with minimal to no defense around it that the galaxy's most elite commanders, pilots, and engineers simply ignore. Nobody, save Vader and his two wingmen, try to do anything (except for the cannons placed, sparingly at best, along the trenches). Granted, Vader did try and stop the Rebels (he still did have a personal grudge with Luke due to both of them being Obi-Wan's pupils), but why wasn't he able to summon a much larger force or direct a counter-strike against where the Rebels were heading? Each explanation just summons more questions and makes the destruction of the Death Star seem overly simplistic to me. At least in the third film it is far more involved and complex. More than "Insert Missle Here". A Nd I haven't even gotten into questioning how a missle down an exhaust vent would destroy a moon-sized space station either...
      • Because that's the way the story works, even if it should have about the same effect as setting off a squib in nuclear-reactor. Oh, and it's actually vader and 8 fighters, not 2 (the rest got destroyed, 2 on-screen).
    • Its a design oversight. Y'know, a flaw. An error. An engineering screwup. Happens all the time in real life when you're not building a space station the size of a planet for a psychopathic boss who likes invoking literal deadlines. The flaw itself was extremely small, and as the movie itself showed, virtually impossible to exploit. Even computer-guided smart missiles couldn't hit the vent.
      • Having a vent that is essentially completely open to outside space with no protection and with (we can assume) direct access to the core is not an "error", it's something a high school engineering student wouldn't even do, especially for a weapon's system designed of military/defense. To say that the galaxy's best engineers made a mistake of this magnitude without anybody realizing it is completely contrived and a weak excuse at best. Nobody turned their heads during the drafting and design of the cooling system when the engineers stated the vent would go directly from the core to space? Everybody thought that was a swell idea? In a large corporation IRL it's near impossible to get a typo past upper-level management, let alone a complete failure of engineering.
      • Someone clearly has not read My Tank Is Fight! Compared with some of the actual stuff the Nazis were building in World War II, a single exposed exhaust port is superlative engineering. The simple fact is the Death Star is being built by engineers who are constructing a weapons platform for an incredibly dangerous, irrational autocratic ruler, just like Nazi engineers were constructing impractical superweapons for an incredibly dangerous, irrational autocratic ruler. Both groups of engineers cut corners on the weapons design to finish them. And again, it doesn't help that the weakness wasn't really a weakness; the port was pretty much impossible to hit, period - the only person who could hit it was a Jedi, and they had been exterminated.
      • Yep, and the DS is 160km across, finding a 2m exhaust port on that is like finding a pinprick sized mould-spore on an apple, ie, nearly impossible to find (I also inherently dislike the phrase This will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of Kenobi; it will soon see the end of the Rebellion, 1 day, I feel, is far too short a time to find the port, crunching those sorts of numbers should take days at least).
    • Nobody predicted that the supposedly unsinkable Titanic could be destroyed by a chain reaction caused by a relatively tiny rip in the side of the ship until it was too late either. As Ben Franklin said, "A small hole can sink a great ship." One of life's truer principles. Folks, the station was the size of a small planet, and the exhaust port in question was six and a half feet wide. And you wonder how it could have been overlooked??!!
  • This has bugged me for years: This is never once explained during the movie except for some vague taxation dispute. Taxes? Really? Why would a Trade Federation have an army anyway? And then, why do the Separatists want to leave the Republic? Again, their motivations, political idealogy, and major complaint with the Senatorial system is never explained, or even given a single second of thought in anything I read in any of the Star Wars things. The reasons why a war is being fought sounds important to me, at least. In the original series it was just Evil Empire vs. Plucky Rebels, that's simple. You don't really need any politics, its good vs. evil. But here, things are much more confused, and nothing is ever explained.
    • The thing is, Palpatine is basically running the show, and he 'wants' a war, so he manipulates everyone he can so that he can get it.
    • I think the Trade Federation is Lucas' idea of capitalism run amok. You know, with corporations having their own private armies and stuff.
    • As I understand it the original opening crawl of Menace was several times longer and gave a much more detailed explanation, but was pruned for being too wordy. Personally, I think the first two episodes are far too bogged down in political and economic detail as it is, and the last thing we need is more.
    • The taxation dispute is just an excuse for the Trade Federation to be pissed and thus ripe for Palpatine's manipulation. The movie doesn't go into any more detail about it because (a) it would be boring, and (b) it has no other bearing on the plot.
  • In Empire Strikes Back, is it ever discussed as to how Luke knew exactly where to land on Dagobah, a planet we can safely assume is at least as large as Earth? I think he had some dialogue about detecting life signs or something similar, but (and my SW knowledge may fail me here), there must be other sentient forms of life on the planet, shouldn't there? Perhaps we can just say the Force did it, but I don't believe Luke ever mentions feeling drawn to the location or anything.
    • What bugs me is why does everyone assume it is a fluke of Luke. Yoda is a semi-prescient Jedi Master with 19 years to set up camp, with a space ship should he need to go somewhere. I would think it was Yoda who went to where he knew Luke would crash.
      • Hmm perhaps, but that's an awful lot of prediction to do so far in the past and it still seems hard to believe he would have gotten the location so precise. I know that most of Yoda's predictions left much "gray area" as to particular outcomes, but then again, those predictions in questions tended to depend on the independant actions of people, which are near impossible to predict. Also, he could have just been in the ballpark area, so to speak, and simply walked a short distance when he saw the ship crash. It seems to be implied that Luke has been on the surface for some time before Yoda finally makes an appearance.
      • I was not saying he set up camp 19 years in advance. I was saying he had 19 years to have a vision of where Luke would go, get in the starship, move to that general location, and if necessary, guide Luke down to where he needed him. I was simply pointing out the flaw in putting the onus on Luke alone.
      • As a note to any would-be commentors, I am aware of the previous discussion above concerning this issue where it was supposed that Yoda guided the X-Wing to his location and that seems plausible.
  • Is it just me or does the Empire's search on Tatooine for 3PO and R2 seem a little heavy-handed? I know we are talking about a manical military machine with little to no experience or regard towards proper investigative techniques, but why was it necessary to kill all those aboard the sandcrawler and all those at the Lars Homestead? Granted, we never get to see the conduct at both locations and I suppose it seems plausible that at both locations the Empire could have met resistance that necessitated the use of force, but it still seems like if a whole contingent of Storm Troopers knocked on your door/ship and asked you to give them the location of two droids, you would either tell them where to go/hand them over with little to no complaint if you are a being intersted in self-preservation, which would remove the need for any sort of violence, unless the Storm Troopers just like that kind of thing... Then again, the Storm Troopers do seem the to be the "shoot first, ask later" type, so maybe this point is moot.
    • The droids are potentially carrying extremely high value intelligence. They want to make sure that even if they get the droids, anyone else who might have gleened that information is taken care of. I mean, would you want to be the one to explain to Vader, "Hey, yeah, we got the droids but, um, it looks like that farmer who bought him might have gotten the plans out—Ohgod you're Force choking me now."
  • How does the Death Star acheive propulsion? There are no "thrusters" or propulsions devices of any sort that appear along the surface and given the space station colossal size, even getting the space station up to a wimpy 50MPH from a stand still would require a massive amount of energy, much less the speed needed to traverse from planet to planet in the scope of the film. We know if must be capable of movement since it "moves" from destroying Alderaan to attempting to destroy Yavin and at the end of New Hope it was moving around the planet to get a shot at Yavin (although the latter could be achieved by the larger planet's gravity). Even if we say that the Death Star is able to utilize the inherent gravity present amoung the many planets, stars, etc in the galaxy, it would still need substantial propulsion potential to "direct" itself from gravity pool to gravity pool and this technique would not allow for anything near the speeds required.
    • ...you're arguing about implausible power levels in a Star Wars movie? It's a planet killer! It blew up a planet with a power output that exceeds that of the entire Milky Way galaxy! And you're bothered about how the power issues of how it gets from point A to point B? Anyway. You never see the entire surface of the Death Star, there's probably loads of (relatively) little thrusters arranged regularly on the surface.
      • I'm not arguing about implausible power levels, per se, I am simply wondering how it moves. We never see it acheive propulsion in any way, shape, or form yet it still manages to get around. In fact, it was supposedly "moving" during the attack on Yavin yet we saw no evidence of propulsion. Even thousand upon thousand of miniscule thrusters would leave a noticable imprint aginst a black backdrop. I'm willing to forgive the power inconsistencies, but I think they could have at least figured in propulsion of some form.
      • Do they specifically state that it's moving in a way that couldn't just be it orbiting the gas giant? For something that big you'd probably be worried about your mileage, and coming out of hyperspace pretty close to a viable orbit could save some fuel without any real danger (aside from the whole 'one in a million' chance thing).
      • They could definitely be using the planet's gravity to pull around there and would probably be an efficient means of propulsion...for the attack.. They still needed a way to actually get there and leave (not to mention the funny things a space station that size so close to a massive planet would do to both the planet and station due to their respective gravitational pulls)
      • The thing apparently does have its own thrusters.
      • The station is very large. At the scale we see, any thrusters would be too small to make out. There are probably lots of thrusters hidden within the valleys we can make out on the surface.
      • Not buying that. Since no engine can possibly exist that could convert fuel to propulsion with 100% efficiency, some of the spent fuel, whatever form it is in, is going to be given off as heat and light. It doesn't matter if you have 1 or 1,000,000,000, the amount of energy required to move this station at the speed it would need to move to fit into the timeline (since we know these planets are not sitting directly next to each other) would leave a noticeable glow or heat effect that would be noticable. Not to mention that the space station never even appears to be moving and since we do have reference points (stars in the background), we would know if it was moving or not. The only possibility I will concede is this: In space, since there is virtually no friction, one doesn't need to have the thrusters on all the time, just firing once or twice to create propulsion and reach the optimal speed would be enough. Therefore, it is possible that we conventiently never got to see the Death Star with it's propulsion system in motion.
      • Well the station could be outputting in UV (non-visual) wavelengths. and as for the IR effect, thermodynamics appears to be near the top of the writers' list of 'Scientific Laws To Be Ignored'.
  • The Cargo Cult bit in Return of the Jedi brings up an intriguing bit of Fridge Logic, given 3P0's master, Luke, was in danger of death at the time and requested he go along with it to free them. 3P0 responds with "It's against my programming to impersonate a deity!" Just how big a problem is deity-impersonation among Protocol Droids for them to have their priorities this way around?
    • Well, there might be lots of hunter-gatherer level civilizations in the galaxy, I guess droid engineers didn't want their robots to be used by unscrupulous individuals who might want to take over one of them with a shiny metal god.
      • Except that why the heck would an exploration team bring along a protocol unit. They seem to be quite flimsy (a blaster bolt only shorted out R2, but another blew 3PO clean apart), require a huge amount of maintenance (oil baths and that, but you never see R2 in one), and would surely be of marginal utility (a good sound-synthesiser is a nice addition, but a big beast is better put off with a big pointy stick). It would probably have been more logical for C-3PO to have said "impersonating a deity is not part of my programming" or "I don't know how, that was never included in my programming".
      • You'd bring a protocol droid around if you thought there was some sort of intelligent society there, and you might need to translate. I mean, hell, look at Return Of The Jedi right there. The Ewoks used a primative dialect, but C-3PO was able to translate, and it's because of him they were able to form their little alliance. It's probable that the 'don't impersonate a god' programming came about the first time something like this happened and the primatives ignored the organic explorer/negotiator and just worshipped his golden metal man instead.

        Alternatively, the line could be taken to mean that there's one thing C-3PO is programmed for, and that's acting as a protocol droid. He's programmed for that specifically, so pretending to be a deity would be contrary to acting as a neutral mediator. So, basically, it's his way of saying, "But that's not my job!"
      • Maybe, but this was a combat mission (they should at least have painted him or had him wearing fatigues), and they obviously weren't expecting to meet any intelligent natives (they acted surprised when they did), so the only reason I can see for bringing him along is to translate for R2 (whom should also have been painted), and even then they should have been able to get away with something much smaller, simpler and sturdier than C-3PO.
    • He's a robot. He doesn't have free will. He * can't* go against his programming. They just had him say it in the same tone as, "That would be rude!" because they thought it would be funnier that way, and because he probably does find it rude. Han lashes out like he does because because he's frustrated.
  • According to Wookiepedia, the Old Jedi Order was founded roughly around 25,873 BBY. during the first couple hundred years or so, they had a Schism, and the hundred years of darkness. After that, there is basically nothing at all untill 7000 BBY, when they had their second schism. What happened between 25,873 and 7000 BBY ( Excluding the already mentioned conflicts)That is a huge chunk of unwritten history...
    • It's called leaving plenty of room for more novels, television shows, video games, and possible films...
  • The denizens of the galaxy far away must be the most forgiving sentient beings in the universe. Darth Vader was possibly the most evil tyrant whoever lived. He killed probably millions of people including wiping out an entire civilisation, killing jedi children, throughout his career and caused the rest to suffer because of his cruel empire. He was evil throughout his entire adult life. One quick Heel Face Turn later and suddenly he's a goodie? He gets to sit with Yoda and Obi-Wan as a ghost, celebrating the "fall of the empire"? I know he was under the influence of the Dark Side, but that's no excuse. The fact he could be pulled out of it by the mundane demonstration of courage shown by a plucky young boy with no special rituals or force-powers proves that the Dark Side didn't have a sort of magical hold over him and he could have at any point just thought happy thoughts and gotten out of it.
    • Anakin might've been redeemed in the eyes of the Force, but the people still think of him as the epitome of evil decades after his death. Leia once tells Luke that yes, it's nice and all that Vader did the right thing at the end, but that didn't excuse 20 years of oppression and atrocities.

      And it wasn't "the mundane demonstration of courage by a plucky young boy," it was the love of his son reminding him of how good he used to be. Saying "he could have at any point just thought happy thoughts and gotten out of it" is a gross misunderstanding of the movie, the character, and the setting.
    • The man brought balance to the force. Isn't that worth anything?!
  • Why do the members of the Dark Side call it the Dark Side? Dark (in this context) implies forbidden, unenlightened, evil, unknown, best avoided or left alone. But they want to convert people to the dark side, they think this is the correct side of the Force to be on, so they should consider themselves the enlightened side, and see the Jedi as sort of extreme dangerously right-wing conservatives.
    • You just answered your own question when you used the word "implies". What the word "Dark" implies to either Jedi or Sith is completely different based on perspective. To Jedi, Dark implies cruelness, conceit, and essentially pure evil. To the Sith, Dark implies unlimited power, control, and superiority, which are values they obviously cherish. Since the Jedi have branded them with the seemingly subjective word Dark, all the more reason for a Sith to wear it as a badge of honor, as they consider themselves so highly superior.
    • According to Random House, one meaning of "dark" is "hidden; secret", and that certainly seems the connotation Palpatine uses in Episode III. Also, these are the same guys who go around calling themselves "Vader", "Sidious", and "Maul". It's a very old tactic to take advantage of your enemy's fear of you as demonic monsters (hence Maul's make-up).
  • The whole immaculate birth with Anakin's mother has always bugged me. Is it even explained how exactly that works? Granted, the entire film series likes to toy with physical laws, but unless the "Force" can actually manifest itself as an entire Y chromosome (with a ridiculous amount of genetic information), I am thinking Anakin's mother just had one regrettable night down at the old cantina...
    • In Episode III, it's implied (and indeed may be/probably is canon) that Darth Pelagius' experiments to "influence the midichlorians to create life" resulted in Anakin. Going by the Force as mystical energy, midichlorians as biological connection model, then yes, I suppose the implication is that the midichlorians formed themselves into a Y chromosome. As for the amount of genetic information, I don't claim to know how virgin birthing works (it's typically unheard of), but it's possible Anakin is simply an Opposite Sex Clone of Shmi or something.
      • Wasn't Darth Pelagius' experiments with influencing life via the Force simply a way to keep himself, and his inner circle, alive forever? I don't remember Palpatine ever implicitly or explicitly stating that they had anything to do with Anakin's birth. Also, I know that Anakin is The Chosen One and everything, but why is this is only example of this happening in the canon?
      • Palpatine says that Pelagius was able to "create life" from the Force itself. The implications of that ought to be pretty clear. As for why it's the only example, if Palpatine was Pelagius's student, and Pelagius was the only one who figured it out, then Palpatine is the only person who could have gotten that knowledge. And given that they're both dead and all, there's nobody else around who has that knowledge.
      • The term "create life" does seem to imply the ability to create an immaculate conception, but it's also quite vague, as the creation of life could literally mean any one of a thousand different things. Does he mean that he can create life within a dead body, provided he has the body? Does he mean that he can make sentient beings miraculously spring forth from thin air? Does he mean he can accelrate, of decelerate, a living thing's growth pattern? Does he mean he can instantly cure fatal injuries or diseases? or is it all of the above and more? It really isn't clear. However, that being said, creating a baby within a fertile womb would seem to fall under this catch-all term, so Palpatine may in fact be implying Anakin was created by this power.
      • He's being deliberately vague. It could mean any or all of those things, in broad strokes. While the audience is likely meant to come to the conclusion that this is the reason Anakin was born, what Anakin is supposed to take from the conversation is, "He has the power to save Padme."
      • It seems a stretch to say the audience was "meant" to arrive at the conclusion that Palpatine's old master "created" Anakin. It seems more appropriate to assume that Palpatine is telling the story of an immensely powerful Sith, which may or may not be 100% truthful (since most things said by Palpatine should be taken with a grain of salt), that coincidentally happened to posess specific powers that Anakin is craving, thus edging Anakin closer to the Dark side. This is reinforced by Palpatine's answer to Anakin's query about learning this power: "Not from a Jedi". While it is possible that "creating life" could defininitely have meant creating a baby, it could also mean a thousand other things, so why should anyone arrive at that very specific meaning in particular?
      • Because Palpatine is saying it to someone who was, from what we're told, given life by the force itself. If he were talking to anyone but Anakin, you'd have a point, but when he's talking about creating life through the Force to someone who was apparently born solely through the Force, it's not hard to make the connection.
      • Plagueis's power to bring people back from the brink of death is confirmed to be real, one of Anakin's many descendants Cade Skywalker ends up using it about 200 years after the death of Vader, Vader was never able to gain this power but his descendant does ironically enough. If one part of the story is true then the the power to create life must also be real, and besides Word of God from George Lucas ultimately leaves the subject ambiguous, he wants us to decide whether Anakin was a Sith experiment or simply a manifestation of the Force completely void of outside influence from a Force user.
      • "If one part of the story is true then the the power to create life must also be real" why does that sound suspiciously like the laconic examples often given to illustrate fallacies?
      • In this case however we have evidence that the power to create life is possible too, we have Anakin. Remember as the saying goes, "Once you eliminate the impossible whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." Palpatine tells Anakin a story about a Sith Lord who knew the powers of spontaneous generation, a.k.a the ability to create life from nothing, and the ability to resurrect people back from death, both powers have been showcased in some form so therefore they must be real. Of course we know this story was to entice Anakin over to the Dark Side making him aware of powers that could help his wife but he can't gain if he doesn't turn, but that doesn't mean that just because of that fact that some or all of what Palpatine told Anakin was a lie.
    • It's amazing how often people overlook that Schmi's word is all we have that Anakin was a virgin birth at all. When Mace says to Qui Gonn, "You refer to the prophecy..." it could be in reference to the "highest midichlorian count" part of what he had just said instead of the seemingly tacked-on "could have been conceived by the midchlorians" part. After all, nowhere in the films do they tell us exactly what all the prophecy says. Just throwing the idea out there.
      • Eh, if you accept that Anakin is The Chosen One, then tacked on or not, there's evidence in the prophecy. And honestly, it's more Occam's Razor than anything when no one at all questions Schmi's claim in-universe.
      • That's not Occam's Razor, that's an Argument from Silence—which is almost always a weak and shaky if not downright fallacious card to play. Besides, of the only two instances we see of people hearing about her claim, one has Qui Gonn silently contemplating it and then telling the council something that could be interpreted as an acknowledgement that it "is possible" she was telling the truth, and the other has the council themselves hearing it and not saying one word as to whether or not they believe it. I've already addressed the rest of what you said above and I do not care to repeat myself, except to rehash that my only point is we shouldn't assume anything.
  • Am I the only one who thinks The Force is either a Jerkass God or Eldritch Abomination? I am assuming it is sentient (will of the force and all that), then it purposely orchestrates or at the very least, allows, the Sith/Jedi conflicts to consume millions of lives. At this point, how many have died so that the Will Of the Force can be carried out? Frankly, it comes off as a bigger antagonist than the entirety of the Sith Order.
    • Assuming that the Force is sentient, it doesn't allow the conflict between Sith and Jedi. Hell it created a Chosen One specifically to destroy the Sith. The Sith abuse and manipulate the Force for their own desires, so I don't think the Force wants them around. It apparently just doesn't have the ability to step in and stop them itself, so that's where the Jedi come in.
    • That's part of the problem actually. Its Chosen One got rid of the Sith by getting rid of the Jedi first. In fact, the Sith were in the past born from the Jedi, continue to be born form the Jedi and the worst of the bunch tend to have been Jedi at some point in time. So it doesn't allow the conflicts. It perpetrates them. Plus it violates free will, YMMV thanks to The Evils Of Free Will and all that but very few entities that actually restrict/interfere with free will are looked on positively.
      • I don't think the Force intended for Anakin to bring down the Jedi, or for him to go Dark Side or whatever. I'd say that was Anakin's choice, and thus a result of his free will. Yes, he had those dreams to go by, but there's no indication the Force is omniscient and knew Anakin would go evil for it. It may very well have been a Secret Test Of Character Anakin failed, but the point is, Obi-Wan's words on Mustafar are probably a good indication here:
      "You were The Chosen One! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness!"
      • That's a pretty textbook example of You Cant Fight Fate, even if you interpret Anakin's fall as free will. Anakin attempts to screw Destiny, is gravely injured for it and in the end still has to do what The Force wanted him to do, put the final nail in this generation of Sith. Having said that, it seems less like free will that's a cosmic scale Batman Gambit.
      • First of all, there's absolutely nothing to so much as imply turning to the Dark Side directly led to Anakin's crippling, be it cosmic or not. Secondly, the fact that he fulfills the prophecy in the end...well, that part's kinda the whole point of being The Chosen One, and killing off the Sith, as has been mentioned many a time, was a cosmically good thing. What it basically boils down to is, the Force wanted the Sith gone, Anakin was The Chosen One who was to destroy the Sith, he took the Screw Destiny option, killed off most of the Jedi of his own volition, and fulfilled his Force-given purpose of destroying the Sith at the end. In other words, precisely two people (Dooku and Palpatine) would have died as a direct result of the will of the Force, had Anakin stuck to the plan; instead, it was not-the-Force who caused things to get way out of hand.
    • I don't know about any of that Expanded Universe bullshit but the films end with Jedi. It leaves us with one or two Jedi and no Sith. In fact, the film continuity, at least, is consistent with itself about the Sith having been destroyed. That's the whole point of there having been a Chosen One. Nothing was pepetuated. The Jedi can continue because of Luke and the ghosts of Obi Wan, Anakin, Qui Gonn, and Yoda. The Sith are fucking history. GAAAAME OOOOOVUH!
    • Sorry, EU counts, if because George Lucas has sanctioned it. In which case the next big Sith Lord will Caedeus, Anakin's grandson. If we were to do a running count actually, I am pretty sure force users have been at the heart of every major conflict. EVER. So yes, perpetrated.
      • No he hasn't. He's gone on record multiple times saying it's its own continuity, separate from his.
      • He's also contradicted himself over it as well, though. There are times he has said as long as it doesn't contradict the movies its canon, times he's said its a parallel universe and times he's taken things form the EU and introduced with his own spin. Essentially, its not canon except when Lucas likes it and it is. Depends on whether he wakes up on the right side of the bed or the left.
      • Meaning, then, that we can't know for sure what the EU is in comparison to the movies, and thus cannot go by the EU by default.
      • Regardless of how you spin it, even considering all that listed above (if it's even true), there is still no reason to consider the EU's idea of the Sith not really being destroyed as counting in film continuity. Lucas never intended it, never would like it (the whole thing goes against the premise of the central arc and therefore undermines the entire series), and just because Lucas sometimes incorporates things that also debuted in the EU into the films doesn't mean that they're in the same universe, any more than it would when the Dark Horse comics did the same thing. It's just borrowing. The Sith were destroyed: the prophecy was fulfilled. From the point of view of the movies, this is painfully clear, even without the constant reinforcements by Word Of God. Argument settled.GAAAAME OOOOOVUH!
  • Regarding Darth Vader's armor I have a problem with what they did with it at the end of Return of the Jedi. I don't have a problem with it being thrown in a fire to be burned, that is a nice throwback to what they did to dead Greek heroes, but the problem I do have is that a simple bonfire could burn Vader's armor. Throughout the Expanded Universe Vader's armor has been through crap that makes being set on fire look like child's play, meaning that it is state of the art armor that does its job of protecting the wearer; so how exactly does a simple bonfire of all things finally do in Vader's armor? Also you would think that the rebels would want to keep the armor as a trophy to tell the remnants of the Empire, "Look what we did to Vader, now surrender or else.", would have made for great propaganda.
    • While I doubt there are any canon explanations for this, I have a practical one. The Expanded Universe was written after Return of the Jedi. In the Main 3 films, Vader's suit serves as little more than a massive respirator, so based on that depiction, it makes perfect sense.
    • There's quite a bit of difference between taking a few blaster shots or bomb blasts and sitting in the middle of a roaring bonfire for several hours.
      • Except that a blaster can take chunks out of a wall, whereas you probably couldn't do the same with a blowtorch in a matter of hours. Given this, taking a few blaster bolts is actually going to be more of a struggle than taking a few hours on a bonfire.
      • Kevlar might stop bullets, but it's still flammable, and can still be cut. You're talking about two entirely different types of damage. Just because something can stop one type doesn't mean it'll stop another. It doesn't have hitpoints where Blaster type damage takes off more than Fire type.
    • Vader's armor was built to be able to resist anything short of explosions and lightsaber blows, a lightsaber being a blade made of pure plasma energy should be thousands of degrees and explosions are self explanatory in regards to their heat. They FAR OUTRANK a simple bonfire in terms of heat.
    • A) Armor Does Not Work That Way. Armor being resistant to directed energy does not mean that every single piece of that armor is going to cover every single inch of Vader's body to the point that it would be impossible for any heat at all to get inside. Also keep in mind that Vader's armor did not resist being hit by lightsabers; Luke winged him once and inflicted visible pain to Vader's arm, and he sliced clean through one of Vader's arms without the blade even slowing down. Vader's armor has also never shown particular resistance to blaster bolts; when he deflected Han's shots, he was using Force Deflection. B) This was a prepared funeral. Even if Vader was wearing head-to-toe ultra-super-duper invincible armor that wouldn't let a lick of flame touch a bit of his skin, Luke could have removed pieces of it so that he could burn.
    • The last entry said ANYTHING SHORT OF, not that the armor WAS RESISTANT to lightsaber blows. Anything short of a lightsaber blow shouldn't even be able to hurt Vader's armor unless that impact hits the armor repeatedly, so what Luke does to Vader is understandable given the armor's limits. No read up about what Vader's armor is made of, Vader's gloves are durable enough to deflect a blaster bolt, he wouldn't have needed to use the Force to stop it. What was said about it being a prepared funeral makes sense, especially since Luke could have carved holes into it with his lightsaber so that the fire could burn the armor inside-out. The point about the armor being used as propaganda, regardless of any wishes Luke may have had to respect the visage of his father, not being brought up still seems pretty odd.
      • Except that blaster bolts don't reflect off normal surfaces, if they did they wouldn't have done such a number on the walls in Cloud City. Reading the wookieepedia article, the only bits of actual 'armour' in the whole suit are the helmet, pauldrons/upper chest section and the boots, the rest is desribed as just blaster resistant, which means that it'll probably take a few pistol shots, but would be unlikely to offer much protection against anything more powerful than a pistol.
    • Regardless of anything said about Vader's armor in the Expanded Universe, the fact still remains that up until Return of the Jedi, Vader's armor had shown no resistance to anything more than ordinary space suit. Therefore, the only canon that comes into play is the original canon of the first three films. So, we can conclude the Vader's armor burning in the bonfire is entirely appropriate, unless you expect Lucas to rewrite all three movies whenever the Expanded Universe adds a new layer to the story.
      • Maybe its powered armor? So while powered it can withstand all sorts of crap, and when unpowered a few hours in a fire will break it down?
      • According to the Expanded Universe Vader's armor does run on a battery source, but that is mainly for his prosthetic limbs and button panels on his suit that regulate his health, drug doses, heartbeat, etc., and pretty much unrelated to his mechanical lungs that have to function all the time. It recharges using personal chambers that Vader uses and even has a means of recharging through solar energy and Vader always has a personal battery on hand just in case he needs it. The armor Vader used could have been weakened due to its lack of power, with its wearer being dead and all.
      • Sorry, armour weakened due to lack of a wearer, how does that one work, I mean, armour is supposed to 'protect the user' right?
      • Well it is a common element in fiction that powered armor isn't as powerful when it isn't actually electronically on. Though the actual armor itself if it were for example bullet proof while on should be bullet proof while off as well, but the point still stands that armor is better worn than being hung up to dry.
      • Not as powerful, yeah, but unless it uses shields then it ought to be as 'tough' off as on.
    • Lucas has all but stated his intention outright never to stop revising his films anyway, so what does it matter? Maybe three or four editions from now the armor won't be burnt.
    • "Also you would think that the rebels would want to keep the armor as a trophy to tell the remnants of the Empire, "Look what we did to Vader, now surrender or else.", would have made for great propaganda." Luke probably kept that from happening. Vader was his father, after all. I can't imagine it'd feel good to see what is essentially his father's body being paraded around like a trophy (yeah his corpse probably wouldn't be in there but on an emotional level it's still him). So either he hid the body and told the Rebels that Vader went down with the Death Star, or he used his not inconsiderable cred as Hero of the Rebellion (to say nothing of his influence with Leia) to keep Vader's armor from being used as a propaganda piece. EDIT: Besides, the propaganda value of blowing up TWO Death Stars and murdering the Emperor vastly outweighs the ability to mount Darth Vader's armor on the wall.
  • When do you suppose Luke has been to Dagobah before?? They never did get around to addressing that in the prequels and it's looking like they entirely ditched the idea of a TV show spanning the gap between episodes III and IV (which we did need) for that second Clone War one (which we don't), so I guess we'll never know. But it's always bothered me, because Luke said he found Dagobah familiar when he crashed there in Empire.
    • The live-action show is still in pre-production. Except news in 2011 or later this year.
    • Hey, maybe it was in a dream just like Luke thought. A Force dream.
  • Near the start of the original Star Wars movie, Vader exclaims "There will be no one to stop this time!" Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't he and his boss basically ruled the galaxy for the last twenty years? Who stopped them last time?
    • Well we know the Rebel Alliance has been around some time, since they were organized enough to steal the Death Star plans, form a base on Yavin, arrange a small armada of ships, etc. Therefore, we can also assume that the Rebel alliance has been meddling in the affairs of the Empire for some time. This is what Vader is likely referencing. While the Rebels have not outright "stopped" the Empire, they have impeded them and fought against them for years, so Vader is expressing his anticipation of being rid of their annoyance and threat.
    • Um, luke blew up the first Death Star remember, I imagine that put quite a big kink in the Emperor's plans.
    • Except that the line in question comes from the first Star Wars film, so Vader wasn't referencing an event that hadn't even happened (or even been conceived as being possible) yet.
    • The very opening crawl explains this. The Empire just came fresh out of the first major battle they lost to the rebels.
  • In the first film, Leia watches her entire planet get incinerated right in front of her. Most, if not all of her family and friends were killed instantly. Does she spend the rest of the movie a) freaking out; b) in numb disbelief; c) in a slightly crabby, bantering mood? I mean I understand everyone deals differently with grief, and some people manage by putting their head down and immersing themselves in work, but I can't imagine how anyone could experience a tragedy like that and keep going without a great deal effort of holding herself together, and that isn't really shown to any extent at all.
    • Wasn't there a part when she arrives at Yavin where the other Rebellion members tell Leia that many were evacuated in time, or something to that effect? Plus, Leia (and don't try to contradict with Expanded Universe examples, as they didn't exist yet) has been a member of the Rebellion all of her life, we can assume, so she has probably been prepared for this situation or has at least seen many other friends and relatives killed in-action.
      • No, the only mention is when one Rebel lackey comes up to her and says "When we heard about Alderaan, we feared the worst." I can't imagine anyone on Alderaan had time to evacuate; they weren't even given any warning that they were under attack. Plus I sure didn't see any spaceships zooming away from the destruction on-screen.
  • In the second movie Yoda starts fighting Dooku. Dooku grabs some heavy shit and throws at Yoda. Yoda grabs the shit back and tosses it...somewhere aside. All this time Dooku's ship, his only possible mean of escape, is standing ten meters away. So why not fling some of the debris at the ship? Or at Dooku himself. Or at Dooku and his ship and see how well he can deal with two separate projectiles. Yes, I know Dooku could probably stop them - it's not an excuse not to try.
    • Further, why would Dooku not attack while Yoda is struggling with the heavy object, as I doubt he would have had the energy to both fight Dooku and keep the object afloat
      • Apparently throwing heavy shit was tiresome, so Dooku couldn't attack immediately afterwards and needed time to recharge. Even more reasons to throw debris at him.
      • However this whole exchange becomes ridiculous when you factor in feats done by Jedi and Sith done in the Expanded Universe. Yoda has been shown throwing entire star ships around like they were nothing, that piece of the ceiling Dooku threw at him should have been child's play. I am not trying to spark an Expanded universe vs Films canon debate here, just saying that I don't like how inconsistent the power levels are between stories.
      • They're inconsistent because entirely different people planned, wrote, and published them. That's why it is frivolous to apply anything in the Expanded canon to the Traditional canon, as the Traditional was never written with the Expanded in mind, and the Expanded tends to act like anything in the Traditional didn't happen or, at the very least, is only one version of the events.
  • Regarding Yoda's "mind over matter" philosophy that he preaches to Luke. The way that he tells Luke that if you can envision it with your mind and eliminate all mental barriers in your mind saying, "I can't do this.", then you will be able to do it, bugs me.
    • First off no amount of telling yourself that you can do something is going to make it so, Luke for example can't tell his mind, "I can destroy the Emperor and I can kill him in so and so manner." and then the Emperor drops dead. Of course you can argue that Yoda was saying that he was talking about tapping into the Force and the only way you can access levels of the Force thought impossible is if you open up your mind to the will of the Force, it isn't your mind that does the work but the Force working through you. However the problem with that is that Yoda has been practicing the Force for literally hundreds of years, the amount of time he has had to quiet his mind, meditate and concentrate himself to listen to the will of the Force should make him some sort of Force wielding God that could destroy entire armies with a thought. Clearly there has to be some sort of barriers when it comes to accessing the Force.
      • Yoda never tells Luke that by imagining something he can do literally anything, it was more along the lines of "if you're convinced that you're going to fail, then you're going to fail". The main scene involving this idea was when Luke tried to pick his X-Wing out of the swamp - Luke decides that it's impossible and thus fails, but Yoda knows it can be done and so succeeds. This doesn't rule out the possibility that there would be tasks for which Luke would be right to conclude that it would be impossible, but in this case it clearly was possible and Luke needs to learn the right mindset rather than giving up right away. This kind of thinking is important to some extent in real life tasks, and when dealing with magic powers controlled through mental abilities it's likely to be even more important.
      • Yeah, but that is only one part of Yoda's lesson. The other part of the argument that he tells Luke is that size matters not, that you need to eliminate the restrictions in your mind that tell you that just because whatever you are facing is bigger than you that you can't do it, that Luke shouldn't judge Yoda's power by his physical size. This applies to using the Force in that you need to remove the restrictions in your mind that there are things that are unmovable, there is no object that is totally unmovable if you allow the Force to flow through you and that if you do that the Force will allow you to overcome those natural limits since while we can't do everything the Force is an energy that binds the galaxy together and thus can. This is clearly showcased by Jedi like Galen Marek who reaches out in the Force to rip a Star Destroyer, which is a mile long battleship, out of the sky, by Yoda himself who throws star ships around like they are nothing, and Luke himself at the pinnacle of his power in the Force was able to manipulate the gravity of a freaking BLACK HOLE, which need I remind everyone is a gravitational hole in the fabric of space-time that can suck up entire worlds and stars alike. Clearly when he said size matters not, Yoda meant it.
      • The "throwing around starships" and "manipulating black holes" bit might play into the whole "is EU canon" debate here, as the movies don't indicate things can get that insane. As was mentioned in a previous IJBM, the Force still follows Newtonian law (which is why Jedi can't fly under their own power), so while size matters not when lifting an X-Wing or bringing down a Star Destroyer, it's still physically impossible for Jedi to throw planets around, for example.
    • And secondly the concept of the midiclorians throws a wrench in Yoda's theory. It is established that these micro-organisms in every living being is what allows them to hear the will of the Force, so the more of them you have the easier it should be for you to hear the will of the Force and tap into its power. This explains why the Skywalker clan is so gifted in using the Force, Anakin and his descendants have the midiclorians in such abundance that they are able to hear, understand, and wield the Force at a faster pace than a normal Force user. This doesn't necessarily mean that your average peon couldn't reach the level that the Skywalkers are at but not having as many midiclorians means that they would have a harder time reaching that pinnacle. On this note this aspect of the Force upsets me when I hear people say Vader can't become stronger than Darth Sidious due to his lack of organic mass due to his injuries, sure he can he would just have to work all that much harder to reach the potential that he once had of becoming twice as powerful as Emperor Palpatine.
      • Can't speak for everything there, but how I understood it was that Darth Vader was less powerful not because he didn't have as much body mass, but rather because his injuries literally capped his power. Heck, Palpatine could've seen to it that his suit acted as a Power Limiter (I'm not sure if I picked that idea up somewhere else or not), but that's more a WMG.
  • So how exactly do lightsabers work? It appears like they are blades made of pure plasma, and therefore must be upwards of thousands of degrees farenheit if not some where in the millions of degrees, how does someone use it without burning their hand? I am guessing the Jedi and Sith could use the Force to stop it from burning their hand, but how exactly does one explain your average joe being able to use one? That must be some great shielding lightsabers have.
    • The fandom has been trying to answer that question for more than 30 years.
    • I think that this is the very reason that the films avoided providing us with any Techno Babble nonsense explanations, however hinted or concise. It's not an easy thing to explain. If it helps, remember that this is a (to us) undiscovered galaxy that may contain forms of energy that we don't know about.
    • Wookiepedia is your friend.
      • I've been to Wookipedia before, I know it can be your friend. What it has to say on the matter is that it works like your typical laser gun that reflects off of multiple filters within the weapon in order to concetrate the laser beam before it comes out and that there is some sort of containment field that prevents the concentrated laser beam coming out of the lightsaber from burning its user. However that doesn't explain how that containment field stops the heat from burning its user and being hot enough to slice through other tough surfaces. It doesn't make sense that it can work both ways, the lightsaber is sort of a case of extreme Rule of Cool since laser physics shouldn't work like that.
    • Wookiepedia cites a hodgepodge of possibly contradictory, mainly Expanded Universe sources. I was talking about film continuity (see above for more on that). I doubt that it was by accident that the films never even hinted at how sabers work. They knew better. If any behind-the-scenes special ever explained it, then I am not aware of the fact. It's best just to leave it at the fact that unknowable forms of energy with properties impossible to find in any energy with which we're familiar may exist in this by us unglimpsed galaxy. Perhaps the saber blades don't burn at all. Why should we assume that they're even hot? Because they're bright and they slice things? They may well be slicing them another way (which I'm sure someone with a better understanding of science than myself could speculate about very interestingly). We're never told what they're even made of.
      • Sorry, but you can't just arbitrarily discard the Expanded Universe continuity just because you don't like it or aren't as familiar with it. The EU is canon. Word Of God has said so. Accept it and move on.
  • Why are the citizens of various planets predominantly white humans who all speak English? Is the language just an evolutionary certainty or are we somehow...related?
    • They don't speak English, they speak Basic, which is a standardized galactic language.
      • That just happens to be identical is almost every way to just one of the hundreads of languages, dialects, etc. that were conceived on one lonely planet in an entirely different galaxy? For that matter, why, even if it's standardized, does everyone speak it back on their own home worlds (except for the non-humanlike races). French and English are the standardized languages for the EU General Council, but that doesn't mean than the Spanish politicians speak French when they go home. I jsut think there should be much more diversity in the languages spoken in the SW Galaxy, because even the Basic language should vary slightly in pronounciation, word choice, tone, etc. from planet to planet, since you have different cultures, presumably.
      • Well to the first point, at least, you just gotta let go and accept that the universe is just plain big enough that some galaxy out there happens to speak the same language as us. Chalk it up to Rule Of the Audience's Need to Follow the Plot Without Getting Sidetracked by Unearthly Dialect Made Up for the Sake of Realism. (If you're referring to real-world dialects, at the very least, accents in the SW galaxy abound.)
      • That just happens to be identical is almost every way to just one of the hundreads of languages, dialects, etc. that were conceived on one lonely planet in an entirely different galaxy? No, they're speaking a language that is translated into one that we recognize because listening to people speak Simlish for two hours straight with subtitles is kind of annoying. Its easier if the story simply has them all speaking English/whatever the tongue is on your particular version of the movie happens to be.
    • Infinite Monkeys principle. There exists a theory that in an expansive enough universe (and we don't really know how big ours is, whatever rough estimations you may have heard) the odds are quite plausible that a planet exists somewhere with creatures very much like humans. Perhaps that it must. A nearly identical enviroment is even likelier. Whether the theory has any merit to it or not, it certainly seems to be the viewpoint of the films. As for the language, if you look carefully, you'll find the writing is alien even for their "English" (which you'll notice they never identify as such), so it is evident we're hearing what you might call an Informed (that is to say, implied) Dub.

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