Monday Nov 05, 2007

Congratulations Google, Red Hat and the Java Community!

I just wanted to add my voice to the chorus of others from Sun in offering my heartfelt congratulations to Google on the announcement of their new Java/Linux phone platform, Android. Congratulations!

I'd also like Sun to be the first platform software company to commit to a complete developer environment around the platform, as we throw Sun's NetBeans developer platform for mobile devices behind the effort. We've obviously done a ton of work to support developers on all Java based platforms, and were pleased to add Google's Android to the list.

The Java platform has come a long way - we're on the vast majority of mobile devices in the marketplace today (well over a billion phones at last count), and with Google's mobile services (like gMail and Google Maps), along with Yahoo!'s Go Mobile, alongside a massive spectrum of incredible entertainment offerings from folks like Electronic Arts, we have by far and away the most complete content ecosystem on the market today. Enabling carriers, handset manufacturers, content creators - and most of all, consumers - to get the most from their mobile devices.

And needless to say, Google and the Open Handset Alliance just strapped another set of rockets to the community's momentum - and to the vision defining opportunity across our (and other) planets.

Today is an incredible day for the open source community, and a massive endorsement of two of the industry's most prolific free software communities, Java and Linux.

Stay tuned for specific details - for those so inclined, download NetBeans here to check out the industry's most popular IDE for mobile Java development.

And in the spirit of offering congratulations, I'd like to offer a similar shout out to our friends at Red Hat Linux - who today announced their support for the OpenJDK project. With friends like Google and Red Hat, it sure seems like the momentum behind Java's on the rise...

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Why isn't Sun part of the OpenHandsetAlliance? Is it another case of NIH, since Google is not using JavaFXMobile so Sun doesn't want to be part of it?

Posted by Enaiel on November 05, 2007 at 02:07 PM PST #

Jonathan, it is amazing the amount of value this has brought to Google's share prices as the investment world was speculating on Google's play in this industry.

It is companies like Sun and Google, which are helping the possibility and connectivity of the net expand on a daily basis.

Thank you

Posted by Steve on November 05, 2007 at 02:07 PM PST #

How come the stock tanked with such a good news? After hours trading JAVA down 2.8% or 12 cents to $5.56

Posted by Michael Byrne on November 05, 2007 at 02:19 PM PST #

"How come the stock tanked with such a good news?"

Uh, 'cause as usual with Java, there's no money in it for Sun?

Posted by whystopnow on November 05, 2007 at 02:25 PM PST #

Wait, I didn't hear or see any mention of Java during the whole Open Handset Alliance introduction. The has NO mention of Java either. Where is the Java?

Posted by Adam Khel on November 05, 2007 at 02:30 PM PST #

This is truly a great news for Java/developers, congratulations.
I wonder if iJobs got this AMAZING news on his kind of mobile device;)

Thanks very much.

Posted by Threads on November 05, 2007 at 02:38 PM PST #

Great. The Java platform seems to be pretty healthy. The only need it really needs is a great graphical NATIVE toolkit to complement the language. Drop Swing, fix SWT or create something new. 10+ points if the same toolkit could be used on oversized mobiles ...

Posted by cra on November 05, 2007 at 02:46 PM PST #

JAVA will rebound--go away, naysayers!

Thank you, Jonathan, for committing Sun to this new platform. Google will undoubtably dominate in the next few years. As a shareholder, it's _great_ to see Sun along for the ride! Your leadership continues to impress.

The spirit of "open" (open platforms/source) may be interpreted by some as the majority players enjoying marketshare/driving the industry. It's true; I won't deny it. At least we have a choice (via the community) in helping drive technologies in directions that benefit our companies. Our customers will help us determine if we're making the right development choices.

Go Sun!! SUNW, er... JAVA will continue to rise!

P.S. Red Hat - good to see you're onboard OpenJDK. About bloody time.

Posted by Bah Humbug! on November 05, 2007 at 02:55 PM PST #

"How come the stock tanked with such a good news?"

Because you're looking at a cached page from last week? The quote I'm seeing is that JAVA closed up 11 at $5.71.

Posted by Jesse on November 05, 2007 at 03:25 PM PST #

Funny.... I didn't see any mention on either the OHA site or any of the tech blogs of Java being part of the phone stack. That coupled with the fact that no one from Sun was at the presentation, makes one wonder if Java is even part of the google phone stack.


Posted by Shawn on November 05, 2007 at 04:06 PM PST #

If you look at the companies involved in the OHA announcement, they're all Java carriers, and the handset companies are the same. Even some of the ecosystem partners are Java (and Google's own mobile apps are Java, too). I think it's a safe assumption to make...

Posted by Anonymous on November 05, 2007 at 04:18 PM PST #

Don't put the horse so ahead of the cart that it runs away and leaves the cart
behind. It is a shame that Sun makes less than 10% of the total Java Economy
and "PATS" its back for being open and community oriented etc. The real
PAT is "profit after tax" for shareholders that makes the ROE look better.
How about increasing ROE from 7% to meet or exceed that of IBM (36%) and HPQ (18%). I do admire your leadership and audacity, but this one is a pure BS
that helps no one ... so it would be good to see money making action and not
this oral or blogal M....

Posted by beancounter on November 05, 2007 at 04:40 PM PST #

Yes, this announcement is great for google's stock price. It will not affect Sun's stock price in the slightest. As others have posted, Sun doesn't make a dime from Java, even though Johnny boy keeps insisting it does.

Stock is down after hours because as usual, Sun's growth is pathetic and where the growth will come from changes over time. First it was AMD servers and Niagara. Now it is T2 (Niagara 2) that will provide the growth. Then Rock based systems. Then I heard Sun is selling a bridge in Brooklyn.

Don't get me wrong, Sun has great technology. How they market and sale it is the problem. That can only be fixed with wholesale changes in executive management.

Posted by cut the pony tail on November 05, 2007 at 04:41 PM PST #


Is this a spin or a loss for JAVA ??

Posted by Niraj J on November 05, 2007 at 05:25 PM PST #

Mrs Jesse, the stock closed at $5.53 on November 5 after hours - Tomorrow it'll gap down to $4.

Posted by MakGeek on November 05, 2007 at 05:50 PM PST #

" We've obviously done a ton of work to support developers on all Java based platforms..."

Yes, Jonathan, you probably did. Still, NetBeans for OS X does not support development for mobile devices and looking at Apple's slow adoption of new JDKs, the community is looking towards SUN to provide an up-to-date JDK for Mac OS X.

Anyway, and I really mean this, thanks for providing the world's most popular programming language and platform!

Posted by Winfried Maus on November 05, 2007 at 05:53 PM PST #

Let's not forget: Sun is working towards the release of a "jPhone" (Java-enabled phone) with Samsung. There's monetizing on the Java platform!


Ought to be interesting to see how this plays out... Yet more competition, more tech-positioning within the mobility sector.

Posted by Ring-a-Ding on November 05, 2007 at 06:12 PM PST #

Hey Jonathan,

You forgot to talk about BluRay disks and the JVM that comes with..
Also they are out selling HD-DVD all year ;D
Well done,

Posted by EdwardOCallaghan on November 05, 2007 at 10:21 PM PST #

What I'd really like to know is how JAVA is making $$$ out of all this?
What I saw is just hype.. hype.. , everybody else is moking money out of Sun's software, because you guys seem to Open Source everything. How about Sun's systems, you know, the things that actually generate $$$ for Sun, there are almost no news after initial product announcements.. why not hyped them up also? So far I only saw IBM Blade advertisements on TV

Posted by Ed Tan on November 05, 2007 at 11:07 PM PST #

Java has the Largest Application Platform on the planet, period, in fact, not only is it the largest but among the most open. In response to criticism about share prices, etc, I put forward the following argument:

Sun is open, hardware, software, standards, you name it, Sun is open, open for Business.

Openness empowers and serves the customer better than strategies designed around lock-in. Large segments of the computing market, haven't seen the barriers to entry are broken, they are still behaving like slaves to proprietary business models, tied to their data silo's that restrict company information flow, more and more smart people within these organisations are getting freedom, they will need guidance and support.

Who do you think is best placed to serve them?

Customers pay far more for Support than license fees, so the argument that free software doesn't pay is mute, especially now that complexity in proprietary models is delaying release cycles. Proprietary business models are history, although for the time being, still making good money due to vendor lock-in.

Today, Sun's innovative platforms are attracting developers in droves, tomorrow, there will be a wealth of software available, easily optimised with clever developer tools and able to harness the power of CMT. Rome wasn't built in a day, better get in now and stake your plot, build on solid open foundations, not the shifting sands of Single Vendor proprietary pseudo solutions, unable to keep pace tomorrow, due to the very lock-in that props them up today.

Who do you think will be here long term?

Posted by Peter on November 06, 2007 at 03:12 AM PST #

JAVA? I thought Android based mobiles will run native code! Will native code apps be available?

Posted by Zolookas on November 06, 2007 at 03:57 AM PST #

Dear Beancounter

What is wrong with this country today is attitudes like yours. The bottom line is not what the shareholders bring in but customer satisfaction and the promotion of Open Source. Thank you Sun for remembering that I am your customer and not an asset held to your stockholders. Mr Beancounter please remember the shareholder is NOT the customer and I am not a asset. I am the customer.

You say this is BS and helps no one. Well maybe it doesn't help you the stockholder but it does help me the true customer and gives me faith that I am more important to Sun than the profits turned over to you the stockholder.

Posted by on November 06, 2007 at 05:05 AM PST #

so...err.. is this another freebie again to google? Like ZFS to apple? I don't see anyone giving free software to SUN...
this charity business model accounts the low single digit growth in your revenue line..

Posted by karen on November 06, 2007 at 05:32 AM PST #

With already 2 different Java providers (Aplix & Esmertec) joining the Open Handset Alliance, it seems a guarantee for another run at Java ME device fragmentation, specially considering that their implementations will not be available in open source but rather commercially.

I beleive that Sun should join the alliance and provide a version of open source Java ME optimized for Android, that will provide a common (with JNI support) implementation of Java to avoid device fragmentation. JNI support would be essential to allow developers to provide native code with their Java code for instances that require faster code or other native functionality. Let the community develop the open source code for all mobile JSRs for Android and you will make mobile appplication developer's life easier and continue use of Java ME.

Posted by Carlos on November 06, 2007 at 07:45 AM PST #

This earnings announcement is so so sad compared to others in this space. This company seems to be mostly composed of just a lot of talk and no action. RFID, Black Box, Storage, Java, Free Software, Reverse stock splits and stock symbol changes are nothing but just a big bunch of crap...

What ever happened to Project Looking Glass? Did you give that away for free to?

You guys better make some big changes QUICK and put some numbers on the board or it will be too late.


Posted by David on November 06, 2007 at 08:02 AM PST #

Sun has been around for 25 years, and I see it building a foundation to be around another 25 years, in a very different world. This is not a fly-by-night one trick startup looking to get bought up once its trick is old hat. As others have mentioned, I also value a solid grounding, sustainability, business ethics and steady growth above being a hotshot stock. If you want to get rich quick, this is not your stock.

Posted by long long on November 06, 2007 at 08:10 AM PST #


When was the last time Sun top revenue estimated? 1999... COME ON WILL YOU!
Can't wait for the reverse spit to kill us all. DON'T do it.

Posted by Rich Campbell on November 06, 2007 at 08:55 AM PST #

Sun is a corporation,
it exists because some people are putting their money to it, and lots of people are working hard for in it. These employees also put their money in it, if they keep their Java stocks long term, or maybe because the stocks they got is under water :-(.
Sun is not a non profit organization serving their customer only, it should also serve their employee and stockholders.
Is Google or Apple paying Support fee to Sun? I couldn't imagine with the amount of talents they have, they couldn't just make those open source code to work for them.

Posted by shetan on November 06, 2007 at 09:04 AM PST #

Shetan's comments are correct. Sun executives are used to hype where as othe companies are doing much better. We have heard it hundreds of time - we need to grow. When ? How ? Just by writing blogs ? Sun employees and others are waiting for the company to turn around. But so far all we see is hype. :-(

Posted by John on November 06, 2007 at 10:15 AM PST #

As an investor I'm not worried about Google's competition against JavaFX as an OS on Mobile as much as I's worried about Google getting cozy with MySQL and beating Sun to the punch. Google with Redhat and MySQL would be the 800 pound gorilla on mobile devices and "the network is the computer, the network would be Google's computer". Does Sun need to play defense in these areas?

Posted by Gil on November 06, 2007 at 10:50 AM PST #

I hope these open source inititives and company partnerships do something to increase sales and revenue growth. Best of luck - you have many skeptics.

Posted by JonathanD on November 06, 2007 at 11:10 AM PST #

(Compulsory to read, optional to publish)
Just what is stopping SUN from getting into cheap PCs and laptops in the third world?
Your M$ partnership is great.

What about GPLv3 for OpenSolaris?
Ok, maybe the stock market will kill you for that, so never mind.

You've already named Indiana as Indiana.
May I suggest a more intelligent name like "JavaLinux"?
May be for the release that works well.

And for SXCE or OS binary, "JavaOS" or "JavaSolaris"?
Again, maybe for the release that works well.

Can't a guy or two from SUN (not more) give some help to JNODE?
The idea is worth the guy or two.

And what about native byte-code CPUs or GPUs or some chip-level hacks on OpenSPARC?
Vector processors are good things for Java games, AFAIK.

Any strings that I can't see?

Posted by Forge Orwell on November 06, 2007 at 11:32 AM PST #

Please, this stock is killing me. I have had it for years and recently bought more.....not my best move. Just sell this company and end my pain.I had such high hopes for this company under Jonathan.....guess I was wrong.

Posted by Steve Sullivan on November 06, 2007 at 01:09 PM PST #


Can you explain in simplistic bullet points how JAVA benefits from Google employing JAVA? You appear almost giddy at the announcement but I am hard pressed to see how JAVA is going to make money from this.

I listened to your 1st quarter earnings webcast and came alway with a sick feeling in my stomach. How exactly is JAVA going to make money by developing software and giving it away for free? I thought it was supposed to be from support or maintenance revenue. JAVA's service revenue, which I believe lumps in the maintenance of both hardware and software services went down. What does this say about your business model and is it broken?

I know JAVA has been upgraded by a couple of Wall Street firms but the real money is leaving the company and the stock is down approximately 10% today. Wall Street is right more than they are wrong. I am tired of both you and Mike sugar coating everything.

Please tell the investor community how SUNW differentiates itself and why, to date, your efforts to get this across to potential customers has been a failure.

I have been an investor in SUNW/JAVA since 1997 and have never felt like giving up on management like today. Low single digits revenue growth is a stale statement and tells me you have a commodity product line. The numbers speak for themselves and your words are hollow.

You should be ashamed to accept $7 million a year with such poor results. It looks like your a consolidation candidate company at best.


Posted by rocky on November 06, 2007 at 01:10 PM PST #

About those oh-so-mysterious JAVA royalties, Sun's own
director for the mobile/embedded market has indicated at:

that commercial JVM providers such as Aplix and Esmertec, now
listed as Google Open Handset Alliance "commercialization partners"
allow royalties to flow thru to Sun acting as an OEM.
Esmertec, in particular, trumps up a Java ME-compatible product (Jbed)

However, the same (1-year-old) news article indicates that
one can engineer a mobile phone using a GPL'd build of Java ME,
to avoid paying royalties to Sun.

Has Google/Android done this in their forthcoming SDK, thus
cutting Sun out of the loop?

Posted by retiarius on November 06, 2007 at 01:14 PM PST #

Jonathan, it is pleased to see such a solid quarter in terms of earnings and margins. It actually beated analysts' estimate by almost 3 cents. Unfortunately, most of the media did not get this and so it wasn't appropriately mentioned. When Lehman was asked in the conference call if the earnings would have been 5-6 cents when excluding the restructuring charges, he didn't even try to clarify as requested, but instead made it sound like he himself was not even sure how the 5-6 cents the analyst had come up with. Also, for the previous quarters, there was a non-GAAP calculation table that came with the earnings release. My concern is: why not for the Q1'08. Does the company want to see a depressed stock price? Is it in the process of buying back?

Posted by Ronald on November 06, 2007 at 01:43 PM PST #

Is this an addendum to Google's announcement? I've read many reports of their announcement and Java is not mentioned at all! How will that help SUN's top line since Java is free and does not require hardware or support from SUN?

Posted by MakGeek on November 06, 2007 at 01:45 PM PST #

After 19+ years at Sun I resigned/retired in June of '06.
As a shareholder I am absolutely dismayed by all the hype
yet lack of real, credible progress. Yes, there is profitability,
but for a multi-billion company it is anemic and the stock
price remains at a (again) pathetically low level. And don't
play shenanigans with the stock like you did with the ticker
symbol. Stop the hype and take some real business action: do
less and do it better; kill programs, reduce headcount (aggressively)
sharpen your marketing and solution positioning and become
competitive as you are in a nearly commodity type of
market like the disk drive industry from decades ago.

Posted by After19years@sun on November 06, 2007 at 03:01 PM PST #

Today NAS is up about 1% ; Sun is down 10%. As a long time stockholder I'm sick of this.
Come on Jonathen , do something to maximize shareholder value. I doubt that Google really cares about your endorsement as they increase the value to their shareholders every day while providing a fantastic product that generates revenue. I just can't understand how a product (JAVA) developed and nurtured (R & D costs) by Sun and which is now so widely used can't generate some income for this public corporation. It's seems shareholders just don't matter.

Posted by Keevan Abramson M.D. on November 06, 2007 at 03:09 PM PST #

Actually shetan, yes, major corporations are paying Sun for support. It's great to have in-house engineers who are great at administrating systems, but there is, and never will be a replacement for having a direct line to the guy who wrote the code and understands it. And if not him, his successor.

All of you whining about Sun's moves need to open your eyes. Focusing on immediate returns, as someone else has said, is all that is wrong with this world. If you think what Sun is doing doesn't set the groundwork for a very long and profitable company, you're blind or a troll. As for how this makes them money... there are services built all around Java that make Sun money. I have trouble believing you have ANY vested interest in the company if you truly don't know how this would make them money in the long run.

/done feeding the trolls

Posted by Tim on November 06, 2007 at 03:12 PM PST #

It looks to me that this is a direct competitor of JavaFX Mobile. Sadly I think Google will get it right. No longer will there be that silly Java Logo, things will look integrated. Developers love Java, but no end users care about the Java brand. Moreso, perhaps Sun should consider dropping JavaFX Mobile and join the OpenAlliance, and focus on making a product for that platform. From what I've read JBed will not be free. Sun has lots of experience making quality JVM's. Sun could make a killer JVM (with some killer libraries) for Android, give it away to developers for free, and charge for support and commercial use. Just a thought. At the moment the Google is the leading brand, Sun should join the Google train.

Posted by Derek on November 06, 2007 at 04:01 PM PST #

@Karen: you don't see anyone giving free software to Sun?! You think Sun wrote GNOME, or, or CIFS, or CUPS, or guten-print, or ssh, or many of the other technologies that are in Solaris and OpenSolaris...?

Posted by SW on November 06, 2007 at 04:03 PM PST #

Sun stock is down. AGAIN. There's absolutely NO top-line growth. JS can continue to put more lipstick on the pig. But Sun is NOT a charity. At least JS et al are not making non-profit type of salary. JS is great is selling "vision". But how to do differentiate vision v. hallucination when quarter after quarter, Sun keeps struggling?

Posted by Frustrated shareholder on November 06, 2007 at 05:04 PM PST #

Schwartz, in the face of this quarter's results, your blog seems like pandering. Associating names like Google and Red Hat with Sun is wonderful PR, but the former are growing but the latter is clearly not. The irony is that Sun is providing your competitors with the free software they need to fuel their growth. Hope it works out for you, but if this continues, you will soon follow in Scott's footsteps...

Posted by on November 06, 2007 at 05:09 PM PST #

Hi Jonathan,
I'm very optimistic about the widespread of Java, however, please tell us *how* you monetize it.
Many other companies have been using Java to make a profit.
How about yourself?
Please tell us during the shareholders' meeting.
I think this will help the stock price.

Posted by The Cloud on November 06, 2007 at 05:21 PM PST #

Sun now has returned to profitability for a whole year. Not since the meltdown has Sun performed so well. $.03 per share earned after restructuring charges of $.03 on a total earned of $.06 per share is not bad. No red tape for a whole year. The summer quarter is the most challenging. Information Technology spending is slow in the summer as many people are absent due to time off and no decisions are then made on IT purchases.
There are a few new products yet to be totally realized as they are recently RR - such as the new "Rock" T2 chip in the T5220 server.
From $15K, it will sell like hotcakes. Plus, you can go way dense and put these blades in the Sun Blade 8000. Connect up the Thumper - X4500 and you are ready to go. And, how incredible. ZFS - instant, no hassle storage. This will (and is) turning the storage world upside down. The word is getting out. Perfect for virtualization.

Want an instant ISP with Containers, just add internet.

Who needs infrastructure? What about growing countries like China and India and those in South America? With our cheaper US dollar, these infrastructure champions are now more affordable.
Sun (JAVA) did not miss financials at all. It missed predictions by analysts (who did not get it right) and money managers take it out on the stock and rebalance. If the analysts had predicted more correctly, then JAVA ticker would have propelled to the vertical - Q3 2007.
Sun Micro is owned by 80% institutions. A few of them readjusted the portfolio as they think they may have a hotter short term investment.
Long term thinking - This is exactly what brought Sun Microsystems the best product portfolio in its history - right here and now.
Patience - will reward the long term investor. Buy the stock now, while you are afforded a buying opportunity. Do you think KKR is stupid? Do you remember a company called Nabisco? The Sun product line up is hot, hot, hot, (and, by saving so much power, it is so cool). Servers – well made, well documented, well supported, a no cost OS and Open Source. An 8 core server chip. Storage – lowest cost per TB. If I am going into battle over costs, cooling and space then, I want a bunch of this stuff. And free lights out management too, plus all the new grid N1 management tools – all free. As a customer – I like this story.

Posted by Jeffrey Fall on November 06, 2007 at 08:16 PM PST #

Hello Jonathan,

This isn't the right place to write this...

I am Robert, founder of urbanhack - an opensource company
based in Bangalore, India.

We would like to build good relationships with industry leader.
Create win-win situations and share our success...

Is there a way to contact you?

Kind Regards
Robert N

Posted by Robert Nediyakalaparambil on November 07, 2007 at 03:40 AM PST #

When is Sun coming out with their dual "Harpertown" workstation? Why let others have all the fun. profits and market share. Software development is one areas that most workstations don't target. A software compile monster would be greatly appreciated, say a workstation that runs Solaris, Red Hat, Windows and of course Ubuntu. The king should get back in the game.

Posted by bill-tb on November 07, 2007 at 07:57 AM PST #

Jeffrey Fall,

Your analysis is flawed. KKR (or any private equity) take positions in troubled companies, not stable ones. Think about it!

Storage for Sun has been a loser, and DELL is eating whatever remains of Sun's lunch. How will Sun monetize ZFS?

Posted by on November 07, 2007 at 08:03 AM PST #

Don't you guys remember every big drop create opportunity for big return. JS is not doing everything wrong. At least he is making more friends than Scott. He is more open minded (so he will open source everything) and he can outspeak anyone.... But I really dislike the reverse split, symbol change. I can excuse him for being a creative marketing guy who have no real work to do. And what do your guys expect for a $10 million guy do for you, a $10 billion dollar return, no way? Just get over it, 10% is nothing compare to $60 to $5. Don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of SUNW and JS might get it right in the long run (x your figures and pray). By the way, the reverse split will knock JAVA off the most active list of Nasdaq, so Java will become less visible (OOPS!)

Posted by Joe on November 07, 2007 at 08:32 AM PST #

I vote for sun dot ORG

Posted by Yog on November 07, 2007 at 10:10 AM PST #

import javax.revenue.*;
load:class javax.revenue not found

between lawsuits over zfs, congratulations to "competitors", and falling stock prices I can understand why signatures are digitally forged on hard earned sun certifications. Where does all the time and revenue go?

Posted by SCSA on November 07, 2007 at 10:38 AM PST #

Does it kill any of the executives and especially the CEO to answer some of these questions?
Are they not allowed, or cannot?
For those of you in this forum who 'kind of' defend Sun's business strategy, doesn't it bother you that you guys do all the defending.. why not go into 'silent mode' for a while and see if there are responses from the exec :-)

Posted by shetan on November 07, 2007 at 11:59 AM PST #

JS, Show me JS (Java & Solaris) revenue !!
JS, Show me JS (Java & Solaris) revenue !!
JS, Show me JS (Java & Solaris) revenue !!
JS, Show me JS (Java & Solaris) revenue !!
Show the number before reverse split vote !!

Posted by Show me revenue breakdown !!! on November 07, 2007 at 03:43 PM PST #

Your emotional equity feeds nobody, but the recycled electrons here. Do you as a customer charge for your end user services or ensure your costs are covered? If you run a not for profit, it is a different story - and I bow to the services. However, shareholder value the bottom line first. Also, it is not the only thing they value. Customer satisfaction and commercial open-source If you don't believe, then people such as you are making this country as non-capitalistic in nature and Sun should opt to be a not-for-profit model under your guidance. One of the best way to do good things and good thinking, is by generating the bottom line first - you may want to check with Gates and Buffett about it.

Hope you come with less emotional statements for beancounters in your next post.Tell me how should beancounters make money - take the investment elsewhere and let you suffer - it is because of us that you get the value creation - so be thankful to us as well and not just Sun.

In summary, Java created the value and Sun did not capture it. It is shame to pat yourself for just creating value and not capturing it in a competitive world.
A BeanCounter

Posted by BeanCounter on November 07, 2007 at 04:24 PM PST #

I too am left with a sick and sinking feeling after this blog. I no longer believe that JS believes what he's saying. This has stagecraft written all over it. A SUN shareholder since 1995, I've seen peaks and troughs, but it's now become impossible to view the conduct of this ceo as conduct rendered in good faith. The sequential failures to monetize innovation become even more erie when viewed against JS' relentlessly poopeating grin and grandiose happy talk. As if it were 1999. As if SUN were Apple. At this point, it looks like acting. What's the plan here Jonathan? Now that KKR has a seat on the board; now that the charity business model is in place, and loyal, long-suffering shareholders are being robbed of their equity, what's next? Does it all add up to deliberate destruction for a buy out?

Posted by Patrick on November 08, 2007 at 01:34 AM PST #

I thought Android based mobiles will run native code! Will native code apps be available?

Posted by resim on November 08, 2007 at 02:52 AM PST #

I am quite excited about all the new products (software and hardware). I am just wondering if in trying to get competitive products out the door you have forgotten about the customers that are using your products in data centers. My last two experiences, in Sales and another in support left me quite frustrated. In one instance I am working on a very hot project and wanted a new copy of the Solaris 9 OS. The copy we have is from 02. I was told to download it. So after a trip to Micro Center a dozen reboots, and a few hours of downloading I have copies of Solaris 9. This cost is out of my pocket and the time spent making my disks was time spent getting further behind my schedule. I currently have 4 systems under Platinum Support and just purchased over $100,000 in equipment with another small purchase in the works. Your facility is 3 miles away. I offered to make the drive to pick up the disks.
Thank you

Posted by Dennis Strom on November 08, 2007 at 07:38 AM PST #

Is this an addendum to Google's announcement? I've read many reports of their announcement and Java is not mentioned at all! How will that help SUN's top line since Java is free and does not require hardware or support from SUN?

Posted by klip izle on November 08, 2007 at 08:07 AM PST #

Please help align the Java FX Mobile and Android efforts.

Posted by smathew on November 08, 2007 at 08:34 AM PST #

Some months back Sun said it was going to buy back shares of Sun, now today with all them shares you vote to a reverse split.Nice move!!

Posted by Bill_W on November 08, 2007 at 01:17 PM PST #

This is truly a great news for Java/developers, congratulations.
I wonder if iJobs got this AMAZING news on his kind of mobile device;)

Thanks very much.

Posted by oyun on November 08, 2007 at 01:42 PM PST #


The conspicuous absence of Java in Google's Android announcement makes one wonder if Java is going to be a part of Android or Google is just doing it to spite Sun for reason you only know.

If Java is not going to be a part of Android, then it will be the second time (after the ZFS on Leopard fiasco) that you are wrong. We should know by next week when Google releases their Android SDK to the public.

It is extremely important for you (as a CEO of Sun) who is trying his best to turn around the company, to be a credible spokes person for the company. Don't let your frustrations be in your way of the long term goals which you have set for Sun's future. Android is just a vaporware and has a long way to go before the hardware and software vendors try to understand and implement in their software and mobile systems. There is something which Google cannot buy with their money. Java has come a long way, and still has juice in it to command the mobile market.

P.S: Do not send Gosling to do PR for Sun or Java, he is a techie.

Posted by Suresh Kumar on November 08, 2007 at 02:14 PM PST #

Hey, Suresh - given that I'm running ZFS on Leopard as I type this, what part of what Jonathan said about Apple's support was wrong?

Posted by anonymous mac user on November 08, 2007 at 06:15 PM PST #

Make no mistake, Google's all about control. Take the 3 companies in the world with the worst stance on IP (That's MS, Apple and Sony, BTW)- they share nothing, contribute very little to the OSS community. They keep their own IP private. They love to give other's IP away. Google, on the other hand wants (almost) all IP to be free. They just want to control and monetize the exchange of IP via advertising. They are not about partnering, only creating new mechanism for advertising revenue.

The OHA is designed by Google to create yet another ad revenue channel. They are not interested in partnering with Sun or anyone else that gives them less control over the creation of this channel. They don't want to play in any sandbox where they don't control the flow. They are free to use Java in Android, but I doubt they want to be as open or transparent as the OSS (or Java) community would demand so they made their own.

Posted by notinsane on November 09, 2007 at 10:10 AM PST #

Its great start in a good direction. Red hat normally makes the right decisions.

Posted by Vishal Sharma on Enterprise tips on November 11, 2007 at 05:33 AM PST #

Suresh Kumar;

"The conspicuous absence of Java in Google's Android announcement makes one wonder if Java is going to be a part of Android or Google is just doing it to spite Sun for reason you only know."
Look at the Hello Android application;

public class HelloAndroid extends Activity {
..../** Called when the activity is first created. */
....public void onCreate(Bundle icicle) {
........TextView tv = new TextView(this);"Hello, Android");

Yes, that's Java code.

Posted by Augusto on November 12, 2007 at 10:13 AM PST #

I read in
that Google developed their own Java VM and APIs for Android

Posted by shetan on November 12, 2007 at 06:40 PM PST #

Looks like Sun will be number 2 or 3 for IDE support. Eclipse support is provided direct with the Android SDK.

Posted by Ian Skerrett on November 12, 2007 at 07:16 PM PST #

[Trackback] It’s now been over twelve hours since the Android SDK and documentation hit the web. Before I sleep, here is a rundown of one of the technical aspects of the Android release that surprised and impressed me the most. By far the biggest, ballsiest ...

Posted by on November 13, 2007 at 02:33 AM PST #

Pinning an event to daily moves in a stock price is a tiresome exercise in futility. It is amazing that people insist on doing this.

Folks, stock prices more often move for purely stock market environment reasons than anything else. By now you may have noticed that all global stock markets have tanked, and in the US, especially the NASDAQ.

That is bound to pull down Sun stock with it.

Posted by gaijin on November 13, 2007 at 08:15 AM PST #

so, I guess this is how a for profit corporation will act.
Sun already open sourced lots of stuff, fine, it's a company with lots of good will, now please use your great R&D resources to make some Great & New products that can be sold to the masses at affordable price, people won't be afraid to buy it,
geez, if Sun made $1 for 1 billion cell phone, that $1B.

and skimming through the Android news,
the new VM is register based, and Sun's VM is stack based, that's like comparing register based processor vs very... old... accumulator based processor.
Why Sun can't or won't take the bold step as in Google to move the market in a new direction?

Posted by shetan on November 13, 2007 at 09:14 AM PST #

[Trackback] Jonathan Schwartz, CEO of Sun Microsystems, in this blog entry seems to indicate that NetBeans is a supported IDE for Android. This is what he specifically says: I’d also like Sun to be the first platform software company to commit to a comp...

Posted by Gowri Sivaprasad's Blog on November 13, 2007 at 10:01 AM PST #

Congratulations to Google are all very well and good, but what about the facts? Android is only partially "Java" (only some of the libraries, not binary compatible), so it's more like a fork of the Java "Community", leaving me with lots of questions, both as a developer and as a (little) JAVA(D) stock holder. My initial impression is that this is worse than what Microsoft did (other than the identity of the perpetrator, I suppose). Where is the value to the developer (other than that it's sort of Java-ish)? To the Java Community? How does it compare to Java SE and Java ME, exactly? How does it compare to Java SE on a similar device, technically (speed, footprint, ...)? What are the remaining obstacles in opening Java? Will there be a classpath exception for GNU-licensed Java ME (how much revenue do those non-GNU licenses bring in, anyway)? When will the JVM be improved in similar ways (Flash, Dalvik)? Is anything happening today, on the anniversary of the initial Java-opening day?

Posted by RJS on November 13, 2007 at 12:55 PM PST #

Dear Jonathan,

What Sun will do about the Google Andriod SDK, How Sun will embrace all this?.

After digging the framework I found they reinvent the wheel and they are not using Java standard API's, Also the virtual machine they are using doesn't produce the same and standard bytecodes as the Sun JVM.

For JavaSE functionality they are using Apache Harmony class libraries, There is nothing about JavaME, even they are not using Swing/Java2D. IMHO Andriod is a Fork of Java. Maybe the license model of the GPL was not the right decision for Java.

Why Sun didn't in the past care about the Desktop, In the 90's was very important the desktop, Now we have Flash, Silverlight/C#.Net, Objective-C Cocoa IPhone. If Sun did care before about it would be Java the best and only technology in the world, Also Why Sun didn't in the past standarized Java as ANSI/ISO and Sun control the JFC and classes libraries instead after years to late and released as GPL. And still doesnt work because we dont have Java6 on the MAC OS X. so the WORA promise is broken.

Posted by Muchacho on November 14, 2007 at 09:07 PM PST #

Dear Jonathan,
as you may know, Italy is excluded from the Android contest to reward the best applications.
I've prepared a letter that I hope can convince Google to change its mind and do what they can to include Italy too:

Posted by simone brunozzi on November 15, 2007 at 03:11 AM PST #

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