I am using the Marquette Method to avoid right now (baby #4 is 11 months old) and it is working very well for us - and this is after years of frustration with NFP. I always have mucus, too.  Marquette uses the ClearBlueEasy Fertility monitor to help pinpoint ovulation, along with mucous observations. Since I have the monitor, it has helped me decipher my never-ending mucous and know what is fertile and what is not.

While you are still breastfeeding, you follow the breastfeeding protocol, which has you testing your urine every other day. I also watch my mucus for a definite shift in type or amount. If there is a big switch in mucus or a high on the monitor, you follow the normal prescriptions for a fertile day (abstinence plus 3 days). With Marquette I was able to know exactly when I had my first ovulation post-partum with real confidence.

After your cycle returns, for the first six months on the method, phase 2 always begins on day 6 of your cycle. You abstain until you get a peak on the monitor. After you have several months of data, the method has you re-calculate your phase 2 by taking your earliest peak day and substracting 7 days. However, I will probably stick with day 6 for the first year since my cycles are very long as my cycle returns.

Obviously, this can be alot of abstinence, but I find if my husband and I maximize the use of days 1-5 and then phase 3, it actually is not that bad. Plus for the first time, I actually feel somewhat confident in understanding my cycle. It is worth the cost of the monitor and sticks for us. (BTW, you can buy a used monitor and reset it. The cheapest place for the sticks in online at amazon.com)

You can check them out online at http://nfp.marquette.edu/

Jay,
I have mucous at other times during my cycle.  This was even more the case during postpartum and breastfeeding.  With extended help from a Creighton teacher (many classes) I was able to transition to using yellow stamps for these days of non-fertile mucous and these are days I can now use.  It is possible to determine between non-fertile mucous and peak type mucous but I would highly recommend the assistance of a professional.

Jay,

Have you contacted the CCL or your teaching couple (if you had one)? They can help you interpret your charts. They’ve always given me great advice and help.

This has happened after the birth of both my boys. Definitely contact your teaching couple or CCL central. In the mean time, flip to the back of the book, page 64, and read about continuous mucus and establishing a basic infertile pattern. DH and I were successful in spacing our children using CCL’s method. Hang in there!

As an aside, and please keep in mind that I love both breastfeeding and NFP: the postpartum time is by far the worst part about NFP. If you breastfeed your baby, your fertility signs can be all over the place even if you are in fact infertile. Every once in a while when the carting gets confusing and frustrating, I envy a woman I know who just bottle feeds her babies. She had normal, easily chartable cycles with only 12 days of abstinence per cycle at THREE MONTHS postpartum. It would be selfish of me to bottle feed only because I want easier charts, but boy does it get tempting. It probably wouldn’t be so bad if I didn’t have constant mucus postpartum. *sigh*

I wish CCL, Creighton, Billings, Marquette, La Leche League and all the other NFP and breastfeeding methods would get together and write a _definitive_ book on the postpartum time. CCL’s book helps, but there’s more to it than they provide.

I’m done ranting now.

It is my understanding that you do not ovulate twice in one month and Creighton was very clear on this.  You can have a double peak but that means you did not ovulate the first time due to stress or illness but it does not mean that you ovulated twice.

Yes, this is my understanding of CrM as well, Beth.  Double peak does not mean double ovulation; just postponed ovulation. My understanding of the so-called “double ovulation” phenomenon that was all over the internet headlines is that if it’s going to happen, it’s w/in a 12-24 hour window.

Blessed Again, I will pray for you! God’s will be done…may He grant you the desires of your heart.

Church teaching is clear, but unfortunately I think some priests give their personal opinion instead of telling people church teaching.

Yep, the Church herself is clear, but many, many of her priests are heretics regarding this issue. I’ve even been told in Confession that maybe my problem was that I placed too much importance on “the rules” and not enough on having a satisfying sex life. And this from a priest who is otherwise wonderful! I was speechless.

The only consolation is that if a priest knowingly gives wrong instruction and one of the laity follows it in good faith, it is the priest and not the layperson who is culpable for the sin. This is why it is so, so important to pray for our priests!

It is well understood that (? ) 90% of the Church does not agree with the Church on this teaching so it is really no surprise.  I am actually not sure of the current stats on that.  I think there are many people that disagree that have spent a great deal of time studying the theology and seeking counsel.  I don’t think they are just plain ignorant on what the church says.  The majority of JP II’s own group he formed back in the 60’s before making his decision about birth control disagreed with his findings.  This included some hierarchy.

I think what you need to do is what you know God wants you to do and live it to the fullest and let the Holy Spirit work on the hearts of others and of course pray for them!!
From what I see God is still working in their hearts and minds and they will get to where He wants them to be.

Maybe they heard what they wanted to hear from the priests!

yes, we have a child who was conceived from intercourse on day 8 (dry day), and my Creighton instructor thinks I ovulated on day 16 of that cycle - so the semen lived for 8 days? She faxed my chart to Dr Hilgers as an exception to the rule. After that, I started using sympto-thermal, and we start avoiding on day 6. I think something like STM or Marquette may be better for many of us who don’t have clear mucus signs. PS - that child conceived, totally bad time in our lives, biggest blessing ever, in hindsight!

We just switched to only using Phase III, because we heard too many stories like yours.  It seems fairly common.

I agree with the above posters—just use Phase III.  I know all the NFP methods use studies to prove their effectiveness but I personally would like to review those studies closer to understand more the details.  For example, did most of the couples use only Phase III when trying to avoid because the method is not as effective in the first 2 phases?  Did the couples in the study have sex only once per month-certainly reducing the chance of conception?  Some couples can live with less effectiveness and welcome large families—I have had some friends though with very serious re-occurring pregnancy complications that really need the higher end of effectiveness and live with a great deal of anxiety every time they have sex.

Thank you, Sheila Kippley! I have had many friends asking for help with NFP, and now I know where to send them - your website. Blessings!

Wow, I feel like I’m responding to a celebrity… My husband and I started out using STM which we ended up teaching ourselves from The Art of Natural Family Planning. Lately, my temperatures have been wacko—all over the place, most of the month, but with a noticeable rise. So, the cross-checking was just not working for my body, evidently. I have been doing mucus only for the last 3 cycles. I’m getting a doctor in on it, though. I had blood taken for a thyroid check this morning. Let’s hope and pray that we can get this under control so that when DH is employed and we are no longer in dire financial straits, we can stop using NFP to avoid, and begin using it to conceive.

God truly has plans for any baby conceived regardless of the circumstances of conception (including rape, premarital sex, women on drugs who conceive, women who have children because they bring them more welfare money, situations where a couple was avoiding conception because meds the mom is on cause birth defects and the baby is born with them, the millions of children conceived around the world who will starve to death and I could go on and on)  Did God know better in grave situations like Andrea Yate’s years ago?  I believe they intentionally conceived but believed that God would give them babies as He desired and not more than they could handle.  Babies come regardless of the parents ability or inability to provide them a safe home and food/shelter etc

I don’t understand this concept that “God always knows better then us”  Conception is a biological (and spiritual) fact and does occur in many situations that God did not intend it that way. It is a biological reality that is already in place and when you have sex you can conceive.  I don’t think when you are avoiding for serious reasons and conceive it is God telling you He knew better or His plan is better and you were not wise enough to figure it out.

It is life and no matter what all things can work for the good.  Every baby is a gift from God and there is a plan for them.  I just view the theological perspective/explanation differently than what is generally stated.

I had a friend have that done without success—I think it does help some women but no guarentees

Sarah, Same thing happened to me, exactly the same.  I checked with the advisers at Marquette, and, it was called ‘breakthrough’ bleeding, caused by a hormone change caused by longer stretches of sleep at night, I think.  I’m no expert, but in hindsight, for me, it was not a return to fertility.  All the best!