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But I should say that I'm pleasantly surprised to find that I agree with this article.

Where does Loose Women fit into the equation.

Women should be paid equally for working the same hours and doing the same work as men.

All job applications should be considered on the grounds of aptitude and merit first, gender and ethnicity second.

Men should accept that if women are to be equal to them in the workplace, they need to step up their game outside it and knuckle down with keeping the house and raising the children.

motherpartner

What I object to is the constant feministcorporate propaganda at the Guardian, promoting women and denigrating men.

Well today's your day: our people's panel today is asking *men* to write to me with their thoughts on sexism! Get in touch, will ya?

Feminism is a bad thing. It may be a nice idea in itself, but it has been used by marxists and globalists to wage war on the European people.

Because of feminism our birth rates have declined. Fair enough on its own. But then our declining birth rate is used as a justification for mass immigration. Mass immigration and declining birth rates will lead to the extinction (or loss of power) of white people. The process is happening very quickly already.

secondly feminism has not necessarily liberated women. The increasing number of double income households caused house prices to rise to ridiculous levels. Now nearly all working families require both parents to work just to pay the bills. This is a disgrace. Women are shackled to capitalism. Our birth rates decline further, and children are raised in a disgusting environment. Children should be raised by one of the parents for most of the day, not left to fend for themselves after school, and barely see their parents.

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Well said.

This guy is obviously a plonker of the worst degree.

Not quite sure the words 'conservative' and 'thinker' belong together though.

"The vast majority of the thousands of complaints about sexual harassment, unfair pay differentials and exclusion from decision-making that the Equal Opportunities Commission receives every year are made by women."

Which means one of two things:
a) Women are, on the whole, subjected to far more sexism than men.
b) Women are, on the whole, more likely to seek legal action over what they perceive to be sexism.

Of course, there could be a c): on the whole, women are subjected to more sexism than men, but they're also more likely to see sexism under every rock.

A really good article. I can't muster a morsel of outrage and I'm trying as hard as I can.

True feminism seeks not to make women the equals of men within an exploitative system, but to liberate both sexes from oppression.

If that's the case why is it called feminism?

Stop on as always, Laurie. Ignore the asshats and angry Menz.

Because of feminism our birth rates have declined.

As have the number of people who see women as high-maintenance incubators.

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Ignore it, Laurie.

His words are the roar of an out of touch dinosaur, struggling against the fact that as an able-bodied, cis-gendered, well-educated, white, heterosexual, married man in London, he no longer gets massively preferential treatment over everybody who isn't.

Now that he only gets slight or subtle advantages (women are only paid 10% less), he views it as a disaster.

People being knocked off their ivory towers of privilege and entitlement are always going to make a bit of noise on the way down, but this the only way we're going to have a fairer society.

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@JessicaReed

love to, but it's totally impossible to leave comments. Must be some kind of malfunction.

Of course, this isn't to say that there aren't men's issues, or that men don't suffer genuine discrimination in many instances (especially around divorce and custody).

The Guardian is fairly good at pointing these out sometimes, but with so many writers seemingly dedicated to feminist issues, perhaps a decent compromise would be for a single correspondent looking entirely at male issues...?

/derail

PoorBoyDave - Yep I know, it's because we want people to e-mail in, not comment on this one. See the article I linked to, my email address + details is in it.

/derail

Very few men complain of gender discrimination at work.

Oh they do, they just choose to bitch about it instead of making an 'official' complaint.

botheredami
26 January 2011 2:38PM
Why is it a good thing to cause white people to become a minority, or perhaps even to exist no more as a people?

<Facepalm!!>

Nah, you have to sympathise with Mr Raab. Everywhere you look, women dominate the:

House of Commons
House of Lords
Boardrooms of FTSE 350 companies
Military
Top civil service posts
Universites
Local Government
Senior judiciary
Football officials

It seems like poor old men can't get in anywhere in these institutions. It's just wall-to-wall chicks.
I blame ZanuLiebor, feminazis, political correctness and the EUSSR.

botherami

Mass immigration and declining birth rates will lead to the extinction (or loss of power) of white people. The process is happening very quickly already.

Yes, the fact that the UK is down to 92% white people is deeply troubling.

Perhaps we should start a captive breeding program for the white people in the UK, to ensure that we don't become extinct?

"Men should accept that if women are to be equal to them in the workplace, they need to step up their game outside it and knuckle down with keeping the house and raising the children."
I'm sorry, maybe I'm misreading this: are you saying it's incumbent on men to do more housework before women become their equals in the workplace? Or are you saying that women are already the equal of men in the workplace, while men are less than equal than women in the home, and hence men need to buck up? Either way, I'm calling sexist guff on this post.

One truth: we need to end the gender war
Raab is absolutely correct to suggest that many are "fed up of men and women being pitted against each other in an outdated battle of the sexes".

If this did happen (an end to the 'war'), there'd be quite a few writers at and for the Guardian out of work though. Won't you think of the poor talking heads?

Women should be paid equally for working the same hours and doing the same work as men.

All job applications should be considered on the grounds of aptitude and merit first, gender and ethnicity second.

As I always ask and never seem to get a reply: where are these jobs where men and women doing identical work receive differing rates of pay?

And applications should be considered on grounds of aptitude and merit first, second and last.

Feminism seeks to accentuate the differences between men and women, it does not seem to want humanity to work together as one. It is inherently sexist.

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Trying to argue, in The Guardian, that there is sexism in the world against men is like trying to push on the end of a string.

Totally pointless.

Myth 1: Feminist 'bigots' have made men's lives worse
The lives of ordinary men & women have been made worse by successive rightwing governments - Tory & Labour.

Myth 2: Men work harder, longer hours than women
Everybody is working harder & longer to fill the pockets of the capitalist class.

Myth 3: Equality legislation is anti-men
Most legislation is anti-working class.

Myth 4: Equality legislation is anti-family
Working class families consistently suffer most from government legislation.

One truth: we need to end the gender war
We need to kickstart the class war...

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As I always ask and never seem to get a reply: where are these jobs where men and women doing identical work receive differing rates of pay?

And applications should be considered on grounds of aptitude and merit first, second and last.

Agreed 100% - I was simply trying to pre-empt the usual arguments.

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Nice one Laurie. It is the Tories and employers who are responsible for making working people's lives harder, not feminists, although they do make a convenient scapegoat.

What he said about the Andy Gray incident is true though. Misogyny is punishable by immediate sacking, whereas misandry is not. Harriet Harman's "Lehman Sisters" comment should have caused her more bother than it did.

Your myth 4 may apply to conservatives in general, but it doesn't to Raab. The Independent specifically notes that he recognises all forms of family as equally vaild, and not just the hetero, married type.

I don't think he's got it quite right, but he's not the dinasour you are trying to make him out to be.

(btw - will somebody please explain to adland that not all men are blithering idiots. Boots in particular.)

The man is a self-proclaimed idiot.

xenium1 - good one.

It is quite telling what you haven't discussed here that were in Raab's article.
I think the message is clear, these are things you don't care about because they are about the condition of men rather than women.
Which in turn is why they don't get discussed if the only people who get to write about them are feminists (leading to whataboutery as a rationalish response). And here just to prove the point, the Guardian et al as usual gives a story like this to a passing feminist (ideally Oxbridge and hugely privileged just to make sure class issues are comprehensively ignored in a full-spectrum Liberal Democrat backing manner) like yourself. You have absolutely no insight or idea what life is like for working class male in this country.

If there is any sense in the Raab article it is that the discussion of 'gender issues' has to have some token separation from explicitly feminist issues. As it stands, whatever the merits of Laurie's argumentation, you're just making his point for him.

The MP complains about feminist 'bigots'

Well, some are.

But then male bigotry is what made feminism necessary in the first place.

Personally, I think Raab just doesn't like women.

R042

Women should be paid equally for working the same hours and doing the same work as men.

They are.

Apart from female tennis players, who get more. But that's another story.

In fact, most women use that extra time to care for dependants and do often tedious domestic work

Tasks which seem to continue long after 'retirement' age.

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Excellent piece. I'm one of Dominic's constituents, as it happens, but I most emphatically was not one of the voters who contributed to his stratospheric majority in the General Election. We're on first-name terms only because he once responded, with commendable promptness, to a query of mine.

He's one of last May's new intake of MPs, parachuted in by Tory HQ, I suspect, because he's a high-flyer, with an impressive CV, and they wanted him to have a constituency within easy commuting distance of Westminster.

I saw him in action at the hustings, and he's aggressive, so the intemperance of his outburst didn't surprise me: he's a young man, getting restive in the bowels of the Palace of Westminster, and longing to make a splash.

The irony is that, in his maiden speech, Dominic referred to the pockets of poverty that exist even in his affluent constituency. You're right, Laurie, we need to address that poverty and social injustice, which has been exacerbated by the ConDems. The last thing we need, the very last, is an outbreak of gender wars.

For example, over the past week or so, we've heard of the plight of both Riven Vincent and Stacie Lewis, one in Bristol, one in Lambeth, both fighting for more respite care and, in Stacie's case, for an invaluable day care centre to be kept open.

We read of crumbling school buildings, of growing unemployment, of the almost unbearable anxiety suffered by those at the sharp end of this recession.

So don't let Dominic's tantrum divert us from that.

I think it's by holding knuckle walkers like Raab and Gray up for ridicule and/or censure that we do the most good.

Hopefully a decent public crucifixion of one or both of them, with a few other scalps collected along the way will hammer the message home.

Perhaps the should be breeding incentives for white people. It would reverse the decline. As it is all the incentives are stacked in the favour of minorities and immigration. Immigrants are certainly prioritised for social housing, as are the children of parents already living in social housing, many of whom are "minorities". Most white people have to work for a living, paying gargantuan mortgages and not ahving children when they should

It's the economy, stupid.

Not because white women won't stay at home barefoot and pregnant.

Oh and as for Andy's "Can you tuck me in?" comment. A little bit crass, sure, but a sackable offense? If that rule was applied to the Big 4 Accountancy firm I used to work at, the work force would be practically wiped out, Women as well as men.

women's share of the domestic load remains close to double that of men. Raab talks as if women who choose to work flexible hours, shorter hours or part-time contracts do so in order to sit at home painting their nails and gobbling chocolate. In fact, most women use that extra time to ... do often tedious domestic work.

Just buy an irobot. It makes life alot easier

The birth rate has gone down - if the birth rate goes down across the world the the human race might be able to survive on this planet. Once a country's inhabitants are given access to good education the birth rate goes down.

I wouldn't call myself a feminist as it sounds like you only care about women, when in fact I hate all unfair discrimination on the basis of gender.

I would disagree with the analysis of Myth 1. A whole swathe of legislation from the Equal Pay Act to the Health and Safety at Work act has been enacted, which contain obligations which protect employees against dodgy employers, however, many employers are either not aware of or are aware of and don't care about the law so they still get away with sacking people who are pregnant etc. The legislation needs to be there but it isn't enough on its own. The protection of the law is especially important in this climate when the market isn't good for employees.

So let's see Jessica. Men are allowed to comment on sexism but not directly onto the CiF site. After all they might write things that you don't like. They are only to be allowed to e-mail directly to you so that you and your 'oh so right-on' colleagues can presumably completely control what's written.

Comment is Free. Yeah right1.

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