James Lawton: Barça the best, Mr Wenger? They lack the edge of Milan '89 and the flair of Brazil '70

It is a flaw that was not displayed by the Milan teams of Gullit, Rijkaard, Van Basten, Maldini and Baresi, whose sharpest of cutting edges brought home five European titles

Brazil's 1970 team played a scintillating brand of football, based on the attacking threat of Pele and Jairzinho and the playmaking of Tostao and Gerson

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Brazil's 1970 team played a scintillating brand of football, based on the attacking threat of Pele and Jairzinho and the playmaking of Tostao and Gerson

Arsène Wenger was awash with adrenalin and relief and understandable pride after his team had come back from the dead to preserve his dream of one day conquering Europe.

But if you could forgive the Arsenal manager much in such exhilarating circumstances it did not include tampering with football history. For that, surely, was his offence when he claimed that Arsenal's late win had been achieved against the greatest team ever to play the game.

Extraordinarily good, often sublime and always fascinating to watch are assessments of Barcelona with which no one could argue – but the greatest in history?

The trouble is twofold. First, you cannot assess greatness until it has run its course. Secondly, in this case it just cannot be true – at least not at this point in the story of Barça.

If they do happen to survive Arsenal's resurrection in the first leg this week at the Emirates – as the odds suggest they probably will – they also have to sharply improve the competitive edge they displayed last season when their drive to repeat their Champions League win of 2009 foundered against the doomsday tactics of Jose Mourinho's 10-man Internazionale.

It also happened to be true that when they overwhelmed Manchester United in Rome a year earlier it was only after benefiting from some of the most dysfunctional refereeing ever seen at the highest level of the game in the semi-final second leg against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge.

Another set of facts which invites a question mark against Wenger's grand assessment is that his "greatest team" has now twice played at the Emirates in 11 months. The aggregate scoreline is Arsenal 4, Barcelona 3, and if it is true that some unforgettable virtuosity was displayed both last March and this week by Barça, it is also right that their coach Pep Guardiola on both occasions left north London deeply frustrated.

It is a flaw that was not displayed by the Milan teams of Ruud Gullit, Frank Rijkaard, Marco van Basten, Paolo Maldini and Franco Baresi, when they combined beautiful football and the sharpest of cutting edges on their way to five European titles.

Nor by the Real Madrid of Alfredo di Stefano, Ferenc Puskas and Francisco Gento when they monopolised the first five years of the great European tournament and Di Stefano was so masterful, so strong, so all-seeing that some good judges still swear that he, not Pele or Maradona and still less Lionel Messi, stands out as the most complete footballer they have ever seen.

Of course Messi is a wonder, a gem and at 23 he may well become a serial winner at the highest level. But perhaps Wenger should have remembered that Pele was 17 when he made a major contribution to the first of three World Cup wins – and that if Messi and his Spanish acolytes Andres Iniesta and Xavi are phenomenally driven midfield operators, they cannot be said to have shaken off the historical challenge of playmakers, and scorers, like Gerson of Brazil and Puskas of Hungary and Cruyff of Barcelona and the Netherlands.

According to the Elo all-time football ranking system – a hoarder of data that also analyses the achievements of chess masters – the greatest piece of sustained football brilliance was by the players of Hungary, who won the Olympic title in 1952 and were denied the 1954 World Cup by a West German team they had not merely beaten but eviscerated in a group game – and one which is also now widely believed to have been fuelled by illegal substances when they created one of the greatest shocks in the history of the game.

Hungary, of course, also beat England 6-3 in the mythic Match of the Century – a title also assigned to Sea Biscuit's triumph over War Admiral – on a damp afternoon at Wembley in 1953. They belittled English claims of a fluke when they repeated the punishment in the Nep Stadium in Budapest the following year, this time by 7-1.

The point about Hungary, though, was not just the brilliant flow of their game but also the fact that they had changed it in quite fundamental ways of movement and thinking. The football correspondent of The Times, Geoffrey Green, acknowledged this reality with superb phlegm, writing of a desperate Billy Wright, "He showed the urgency of a fire engine answering the call but unfortunately he was tearing in the wrong direction."

You might say that there were times when Messi induced such panic in Arsenal this week but the difference between him on this occasion, and other vital ones, not least in last summer's World Cup, and, say, Puskas, was that the vital killing strokes were missing.

Three years ago World Soccer magazine polled the football men they judged to be most able to supply historical perspective when it came to picking the best international teams. The result was a landslide for the 1970 Brazilians of Pele and Jairzinho, Rivelino and Carlos Alberto, Tostao and Gerson, who some believed was most influential of all.

The point is significant in the wake of Wenger's claim in that most contemporary critics would agree that in many ways Spain, the reigning champions of the world and Europe, are an extension of the meaning of Barcelona. Minus Messi, it is true, but still a team inseparable from the one that illuminates the Nou Camp.

So maybe it is instructive to compare the scale of Brazil's triumph in Mexico to the one of Spain in South Africa last summer. Brazil beat Czechoslovakia 4-1, England, the reigning world champions, 1-0, and Romania 3-2 in group play. They defeated Peru 4-2 in the quarter-finals, Uruguay 3-1 in the semis, and Italy – who had beaten West Germany 4-3 in a semi-final rival to Hungary's Match of the Century – 4-1. They played exquisite football and scored 19 goals.

Spain, a team of much beauty and character, no doubt, lost to Switzerland in their first game, and apart from a 2-0 win over Honduras, never scored more than one goal in a match. In all they scored eight goals. Mere statistics, you might say, and separated by 40 years of football and scientifically applied physical development. But has that changed the essence of football, has it enabled only the mediocre and, somehow, enfeebled those who are now described as the greatest of all time?

It is not logical to answer yes. Perhaps, in a calmer moment, even the great Arsène Wenger might just agree.

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Four more classic Emirates encounters

Arsenal 2 – 1 Man Utd

Sunday 21 January 2007

Wayne Rooney's header had put Manchester United ahead early in the second half before two late goals won Arsenal the game. First Robin van Persie evaded Gary Neville to score with seven minutes left, then Thierry Henry got the winner in stoppage time, heading in Emmanuel Eboué's cross.

Arsenal 4 – 4 Tottenham

Wednesday 29 October 2008

Arsenal conspired to draw this north London derby despite leading 4-2 with one minute of normal time remaining. Spurs took the lead through David Bentley's 40-yard volley but Arsenal looked to have won the game. Jermaine Jenas made it 4-3 before Aaron Lennon tapped in an equaliser.

Arsenal 2 – 2 Barcelona

Wednesday 31 March 2010

European champions Barcelona dominated the first half and went 2-0 up soon after the break, both goals scored by Zlatan Ibrahimovic. But the introduction of Theo Walcott turned the game. He scored within minutes of coming on before Cesc Fabregas's late penalty levelled the quarter-final.

Arsenal 2 – 3 Tottenham

Saturday 20 November 2010

Tottenham's first win at Arsenal in 17 years came despite the hosts taking a 2-0 lead. Samir Nasri and Marouane Chamakh put the home side ahead, before Spurs fought back to 2-2. Younes Kaboul headed in with five minutes left to cap a memorable fightback.

 

  • arkleslane
    ac milan's european cups were won when the liverpool side o barnes beardsley aldridge hansen AND NICOL WAS BANNED - I RECKON that side would have taken a few off them....
  • SHPanda
    Shock! Horror! Wenger exaggerates! If you take what he says at face value and waste time constructing a counter argument, you're an incredible fool.
  • AC Milan may have been a good team but it was in a period in which England were banned from competition, which is not being jingoistic, simply stating that in the late 70's and early 80's English teams were dominant in Europe.
  • GeorgePV
    Perhaps this had something to do with the war with the land being given to the area and people who claimed it as theirs..the fact is that the Franco regime massively aided Real, check up the Di Stefano saga and so on..
  • Take a look at the guys picture... and then consider if he just might have watched Brazil in 1970. And you don't have to be decripid to have a memory of the 1950 Hungarian side - heck you have barely retired. And having made your facile point it is a bit to daft to declare you have watched football siince 1986, and then start talking about the Dutch in 1974 and the frankly rubbish Brazil team of 1982.
  • dinsdale_piranha
    are you sure Arsenal did not play Brazil in the Inter City Fairs Cup in '69 ?
  • The 1872 Wanders team could give them a run for their money.
  • And there were no substitutes.
  • Did Wenger say so. Fabregas did, so did some journalists too, from around the world. But not anybody from Barca team or their coach. So lets not ridicule that team and coach who are the best models of how footballers should be in front of media. If the writer has watched the Hungary of 50's and Brazil of 70's he can make this point. But I doubt it. I was able to watch Football only from 86. But since then I havent seen any team playing like the present Barcelona team. Even during adverse situations, they stick to their philosophy of beautiful football. And they manage to win too. And its football and anything can happen on a day. Just because they lost to Arsenal doesnt mean they are not good. Like the Hungary of 50's, Holland of 74, Brazil of 82 and Argentina of 2006, the best teams too can lose on a given day. So I would not read too much into it. I doubt if you would be writing this article, if it was a British team instead of Barcelona.
  • goodkindagoon
    good point but Barça received a little support for a very short time period, while Real´s greatest success came under Franco whose dictatorship lasted a long time, i am not saying Real didn´t have, or haven´t had great teams just that the success is tainted by a dictator
  • empiresrevenge
    Actually, both Barcelona and Real did receive Franco's support, but ONLY Real received full support from the dictatorship! Franco assisted Barca initially BEFORE he came to power, mainly for propeganda reasons for the Catalan region. However, once in power, Barca refused to play ball with Franco and his cronies, therefore creating the anti-Catalan feeling from central government and the subsequent murders of Barca officials. This then enabled Franco to fully focus on Real, and provide them with unfair advantage over virtually every other club in Spain at the time, by minimising and discriminating against clubs who were not in line with his vision. It has to be stressed, Franco's main objective for trying to control the biggest clubs in Spain was primarily a propeganda tool to consolidate his personal power and not for great sporting excellence!
  • MJD42
    My dad reckons that football pre and post back pass to the keeper are almost 2 different games. He thinks Milan 93-94 are the greatest team of all time especially if you include Van Basten although i think the Barcelona team of 2009 calendar year are the greatest as they won every trophy possible playing amazing football. We both agree that Ajax and Holland of the 70s would have flourished in the modern era without the cynical fouls that were allowed back then.
  • douglondon
    I agree that direct comparison of players/ teams is somewhat moot. However, if that's your opinion you can't then say that the goalkeepers/ defenders were rubbish.
  • Richard_London
    Perhaps it was. Don't really see your point about players and results; I was using the results to suggest that comparing players isn't realistic as the game has changed so much. You've actually said it yourself: lighter balls, less attacking etc.
  • douglondon
    Yeah, that Lev Yashin was rubbish. Banks as well. Perhaps the higher goalscoring in those days might have had a little more to do with things like heavier footballs, more attacking formations and the fact that centre forwards could essentially assault keepers. And if it's not okay to compare teams given that the games completely different, how come you can compare results and draw conclusions about players?
  • Mr Lawton. Are you sure your reporting meets the standards set by your newspaper? I think you'll find that the quote: "best team in history" is by Cesc Fabregas and not by Arsene Wenger. I think you'll find that what Wenger said was that Arsenal played "the best team in the world" and implicit in that are the concepts of both 'club' and 'contemporariness'. If you doubt this then do ask him at today's press conference. So, your article is a bit misleading, don't you think? Not by the standards of British sporting journalism, but misleading full stop. The question is, was it wilful or just another honest mistake by just another honest journalist?
  • Did I miss something? In the interview I saw on ITV after the game, he was asked "are they the greatest team ever?" With a smirk that said he knew exactly what the reporter was about, he replied "I believe they are the greatest team I have seen in my career" or some such. That's a very different thing. The Independent should know better.
  • rocker74
    Internazionale 4 Tottenham Hotspur 3 - yes, things have certainly changed. I can't imagine the keepers and defending were up to much!
  • ToCoWa
    I heard Mr.Wenger say that Barca were the best team his Arsenal team had ever played against. And as Wenger's Arsenal played neither the Brazil 70 team nor, the 89 Milan one, this could be seen as a fairly accurate statement.
  • Richard_London
    Trying to compare sides from the late 50s and 60s with the present day is pointless; the game is completely different now. Not to denegreate the achievements of the Real Madrid side that won several European Cups in succession but just look at some of the scorelines: 7-3 vs Frankfurt! I can't imagine the 'keepers and defending were up to much. I think people are lauding Barcelona for the way they play, just as much as what they've won. I have never seen a side move the ball as brilliantly and faultlessly as they do. I found Spain boring to watch at times during the World Cup but Barcelona, although they have many of the same players, add goals and action in the final third to Spain's possession.
  • SID_VICIOUS
    James Lawton im not giveing you my opinion just a statement of facts Barcelona are the best team in the world right here right now and they will go down as one of the best if not the best of all time just like the spanish national team they are the best internation team in the world you dont have to be a genius to work that out its why Arsene Wenger pointed out barcelona are the best club team in the world its very very difficult to compare teams and players from diffrent era's of football what we can say is history will look back on them as one of the best of all time but right here right now barcelona and spain are the best and the whole world knows it just like Ac Milan,Real Madrid,Liverpool and Brazil were the best in there time and will be remembred as such.
  • HotAired
    Lawton & Wallace - the biggest blemishes in an otherwise very readable newspaper. without fail, the most annoying, supercial and hyperventilating sports articles in any serious newspaper. Why not bugger off to one of the red-tops?
  • KingKolo
    A teeny bit over the top mate... which 15 teams would you say are better than this Barca side and the top ten which are vastly superior?? Having said that they do not face the challenges of top level football every week that the Premier League offers...I don't think they would be a gimme for the Prem... it would be too tiring.
  • gunnerbcn
    The change on the Barça crest was C.F.B (Club de Fútbol) and not the Spanish flag. The crest has always had the Senyera, the Catalan flag.
  • Colkitto
    The topic is as subjective as the game is long, my grandfather would regale me with tales of great sides, and typically my eyes would roll, it?s a harmless enough comparison to make but never conclusive. Barcelona are certainly one of the great sides I have seen play, but hyperbole naturally by media is frankly off putting, the sensationalising of teams, players and coaches is almost juvenile. Barcelona for all their capabilities are entirely beatable, as Arsenal showed a little fortuitously admittedly, but not often at their own game, Inter proved that last year in the CL final that there are ways to stymie them, withstanding a siege towards the end to do so. My own worthless contribution is a word in favour of a great Glasgow Celtic side under the legendary Jock Stein that brought the EC to UK for the first time, the players all born within 30 miles of the club ground, believe they remain the only side that have won the EC or CL where the whole team had the same nationality, they played superb attacking football, losing finalists three years or so later, to my eternal shame found myself supporting Feyenoord in that game. I should have appreciated them even more, but it was tough going for a small boy whose allegiance lay in the other half of the Old Firm during a trophy famine.
  • rtj1211
    Everyone has blind spots, Mr Lawton. Even you, the most infallible of all the infallible, all-seeing, morally Pope-like people who call themselves 'journalists'. Your article shows one: the glaring inaccuracy about what went on on Arsenal's left side on Wednesday night. I'll leave it at that, but all I will say is that if Walcott had played like that I think we all know what the papers would have said about it.........
  • No mention of Arsenal's The Invincibles in the greatest team contenders?
  • JuniperBerry
    On your bike !
  • Richard_London
    And for that, it merits a second thanks from me.
  • JuniperBerry
    Thank you, Your comment saved me having to say it.
  • goodkindagoon
    haha, dude, u honestly r the one in need of a lesson, u r WAY off! i have no idea where u get your information, Barça have been helped by the province of Catalunia but never Franco, u must be a real fan, Madrid r the biggest club in the world bc of Franco: Barça under Franco Franco's first victim fell at the start of the Spanish Civil War, when Barcelona president Josep Sunyol was shot by a group of fascist soldiers whilst visiting Southern Spain on club business and in the final days of the war Barça's offices were bombed. Once in power Franco treated Barça in the same way as the other democrats that had stood against him for so long. Foreign words were made illegal so Football Club Barcelona became Club de Fútbol Barcelona and the Catalan flag was replaced by the Spanish one on the club crest. He also imposed one of his henchmen - Enrique Piñeyro - as Barcelona president, but the right-wing aristocrat soon found himself standing up against the regime. Things came to head in a cup match in 1942 when Barça played Real Madrid in Chamartín. Barça had won the first leg 3-nil but once in Madrid, they were intimidated by rival fans and a member of Franco's security services visited the team in the dressing room and warned the players that taking the ball into Real Madrid's half would be considered unpatriotic by the regime. Real Madrid won the game by eleven goals to one and Barça were fined 25,000 pesetas for provoking crowd trouble and then fined again for complaining about the first fine. Piñeyro subsequently resigned and refused to continue as a government lackey.
  • Colkitto
    ...two good points...
  • garrafa10
    Perhaps you need to read up on the history of Spanish Football? Barcelona had a great deal of municipal land ceded to them with tax exemptions by the Franco Regime. Er...you can believe all the fables you like.
  • You're assuming that Wenger actually said this. Which he didn't. Don't believe all you get fed by the idiots.
  • waterboys
    Shocking as it may seem Arsene Wenger probably knows more about football than Mr. Lawton. The pace and fitness of modern teams especially Barcelona is remarkable. They are playing a different game from the teams of the past. Tactically they are very sophisticated and their pressing game doesn?t give their opponents any time on the ball. Brazil in 1970 was lucky because the tournament was played at altitude. The heat also suited their game. I'm not sure they would have won had the tournament had it been played in Europe. The 1966 and 1974 Brazil teams looked very ordinary when they played in England and Germany. Barcelona would have run rings around them, too fast and too fit. I agree that AC Milan in 1989 was a special team. I would still argue that Barcelona would probably have been would be too quick for them
  • Lawton_Loves_Iniesta
    Mr Lawton, i can't find the quotes you attributed to Arsene Wenger anywhere, i've googled these quotes but the only thing i found are either from this article or from Cesc Fabregas.It was Fabregas, not Wenger, who said they are the greatest team ever. The closest Wenger came to elevating Barca amongst the greats was to say they were the best team he ever played against, therefore he isn't comparing them to those great teams which he never played against. Best team in the last twenty years, possibley, but greatest of all time ? Certianly not.
  • GeorgePV
    please read up on your football history my friend..Franco ran the league and had a huge influence in Europe too. Look up the Di Stefano transfer..
  • garrafa10
    Barcelona also received financial support from the dictatorship.
  • GeorgePV
    Count me in then. Its proven that the human mind has a tendency to play tricks on you over time in terms of selective recollection, which leads to a glorification of past teams and players. I see this with the Pele v Maradonna debate. The Argentinian was a great player for about three seasons of his career, Cruyff was better than him but yet people place him even above Pele. 'I can think of 10 teams who were vastly superior to the present Barcelona team', this is a ridiculous statement, they could be the best, surely in the top 3 though based on innovation, style and success.
  • Hey what about Ajax of the 1970s? They also played fantastic football, only that their spell at the top of European football lasted longer than Barcelona's! As for Milan, unfortunately, many people consider it taboo to admit that an Italian side actually played good football; it's more acceptable to make a similar confession for a Spanish side!
  • mensliberty
    Just as well. That team wasn't even the best in Premier League history, and only stayed "invincible" because of Pires dive against Pompey.
  • alwaysgunner
    How about Arsenal v Manchester united 4-5 just before the Munich air crash
  • lordhillwood
    hahah er no they didnt, the secret police visited barca's players before the cup final and threatened their players families , barca lost heavily not to mention the club president being assasinated as well. the stadium was the focus for catalan rebellion against Franco. They was no help at all from, Madrid
  • goodkindagoon
    Honestly, Real Madrid were supported by a dictator so not very suprising they had a good side, and, did the author ever even see them play? or hungary in the 1950s? if not, can´t really comment on what you never saw
  • apick
    Anyone who believes that Barcelona are the greatest team ever is either an idiot,deluded or has not seen some of the great teams of the past. I can think of 10 teams who were vastly superior to the present Barcelona team and its doubtful if they would get into the top fifteen. Wenger is having another of his dream sequences
  • pedantichrist
    no mention of MUFC 1999 James? For shame!
  • garrafa10
    Perhaps you need to read up on the history of Spanish Football? Barcelona had a great deal of municipal land ceded to them with tax exemptions by the Franco Regime.
  • DeclanAhern
    Are the Barcelona team as fit as Arsenal? Arsenal play in the English Premier League where they are accustomed to playing high-intensity football for ninety minutes every week. Barcelona play in a league dominated by themselves and Real Madrid so are not required to be fit as most games allow them to establish superiority early on, score goals and then sit back for the rest of the match. Barcelona players looked visibly tired in the last twenty minutes of the game against Arsenal which was when Arsenal were able to punish them with swift counter-attacks.

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