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« Speaking of "WTF" moments, heeeeeere's Sarah! | Main | Episode CLXIIb: The LOVE thread »

Episode CLXIIa: The HATE thread

Category: Open Thread
Posted on: January 27, 2011 8:48 PM, by PZ Myers

The everlasting community thread is getting fractious and ugly: the prolonged association is beginning to chafe, I think. So as an experiment I'm temporarily splitting the thread.

This is the HATE subthread. If there's something you want to get off your chest, if there's someone who has annoyed you, if you just want to make an angry howl of annoyance, this is the place to vent. No nicey-nice talk, either, just be brutal to one another within these confines. Can't handle it? Go to the LOVE thread.

(Current totals: 11,767 entries with 1,258,505 comments.)

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Comments

#1

Posted by: Andyo Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 8:50 PM

Your face is brutal.
..
..
..
I'm so sorry... forgive me?

#3

Posted by: Rey Fox, Death of the Party Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 8:55 PM

I think I know which thread will fill up first.

#4

Posted by: PZ Myers Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 8:55 PM

I was seriously thinking of switching the two videos on these two threads just to dick with your heads.

#5

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 8:57 PM

ANTILIFE JUSTIFIES MY HATE

#6

Posted by: Brian English Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 8:58 PM

I love you guys. :)

#7

Posted by: llewelly Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 8:58 PM

Not with my head. I don't usually watch the videos.

#8

Posted by: Lynna, OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 8:59 PM

I hate the way my sickness has decided to take up residence in my lungs. I'm looking for somebody or something to blame.

I'll think I'll blame llamas. Those damned, goatish, Palin-brained sorry excuses for a pack animal! I feel like I have llama spit in my lungs.

Hate doesn't have to make sense, right?

#9

Posted by: Rey Fox, Death of the Party Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:00 PM

Keep your dick away from my head you fucking asshole.

Am I doing this right?

#10

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:02 PM

I was seriously thinking of switching the two videos on these two threads just to dick with your heads.

Only a dickhead would do that.

#11

Posted by: Lynna, OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:04 PM

Stephen Colbert loves Utah politicians. He loves Utah politicians that hate feral cats and dogs ... so I am very confused and am going to cross post this on both the Love and the Hate versions of the endless thread.

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/372322/january-26-2011/mr--smith-goes-to-the-state-legislature-then-later-possibly-washington---curtis-oda

#12

Posted by: elronxenu Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:12 PM

Put the Sarah Palin video here and I'm good to go. Death Metal can go to the Mildly Interesting Thread.

#13

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:20 PM

I was seriously thinking of switching the two videos on these two threads just to dick with your heads.

Uh, no PZ. You can't dick with my head unless I say so. /bossy bottom

#14

Posted by: janiceclanfield Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:23 PM

Isn't this what the creationist thread is for?

#15

Posted by: Aliasalpha Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:25 PM

Great now I'm confused, I think that song is pretty dammn good but this is a thread for hate.

If you'd put up a paris hilton single then we'd be united in our loathing

What are the rules if we love to hate something? Is it love because we love doing it or hate because thats the end result?

#16

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:34 PM

Re-reading a post from Good Math, Bad Math. And it steams me as much as it did the first time I read it.

Someone in that thread mentioned how "Lord of the Flies" was a very apt metaphor for high school. Sometimes I wonder if my English teacher assigned us that book on purpose.

#17

Posted by: Danno Davis Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:35 PM

Hey folks, this is totally off topic, but I needed some reading advice. I'm quite into reading popular science, especially Dawkins and Pinker, just to give a couple examples. The thing is, I've only read about Stephen Jay Gould. I keep putting off buying one of his books, partly because most of the descriptions I've read of him make him sound like a cocky ass.

I'm ready to take the plunge, though. Of all the books that he's written, which Gould book would you recommend the most? Thanks in advance.

#18

Posted by: Danno Davis Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:37 PM

Oh, btw, I wasn't sure if that belonged in the "love" or "hate" thread. M'eh.

#19

Posted by: nixscripter Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:37 PM

I hate the love thread!

(cross posts immediately)

#20

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:39 PM

So this is the thread where I can cynically accuse PZ of doubling his franchise, under the noble guise of performing an 'experiment'?

And I get a pat on the back for it, too?

#21

Posted by: Danno Davis Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:39 PM

Yikes. I suppose the "Preview" button is for HTML whizzes like me...

#22

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:40 PM

I'm ready to take the plunge, though. Of all the books that he's written, which Gould book would you recommend the most? Thanks in advance.

His last one! And maybe that one with the baseball essay.

#23

Posted by: daniel.schealler Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:40 PM

I declare war on the LOVE thread!

Who's with me?

#24

Posted by: Katrina Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:41 PM

I have enough trouble keeping up with one thread. I'm going to hate trying to keep up with two.


Let's see....

I also hate that my husband has been out of the state all week. And that everyone decided to come down with a cold and fever while he was gone. And that it's tax-return time. (Although it looks like I'm going to love the refund.)

#25

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:42 PM

Lynna

Is that the law that allows people to shoot feral dogs and cats?

#26

Posted by: Evader Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:46 PM

Wow, such a brutal song! Nice pick PZ.

I mean, I hate it.

And also, it's not fast enough. I hate that as well.

#27

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:48 PM

Well, I hate that my dining room ceiling is falling in and leaking all over. I also hate that I managed to so thoroughly fuck myself up falling this morning. So, I'll turn to something I like, beer.

#28

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:48 PM

Just to post something here:

I hate this month so far. January has been nothing short of terrible and I really just want to hibernate until spring.

FUCK WINTER.

#29

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:52 PM

Ed Brayton, jackass, quotes Ted Haggard and calls him confused.

Here's the excerpt from GQ:

For the first time since we've met, Ted isn't looking directly at me. "Here's where I really am on this issue," he half whispers. "I think that probably, if I were 21 in this society, I would identify myself as a bisexual." After a weekend of Ted trying to convince me of his unambiguous devotion to his wife and kids, I'm at first too surprised to say anything.

"So why not now?" I ask finally.

"Because, Kevin, I'm 54, with children, with a belief system, and I can have enforced boundaries in my life. Just like you're a heterosexual but you don't have sex with every woman that you're attracted to, so I can be who I am and exclusively have sex with my wife and be perfectly satisfied."

"But what does it have to do with being 54?"

"Life!" he says. "We live an ordinary life."

That's not confused. Ed Brayton can stick a porcupine in his beard.

#30

Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/xaStVywarZ6R9nrlSjv4D8_6GGA0PWmf#765c4 Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:55 PM

I hate my neighbors. I really, really do.

Also, I hate how Pharyngula distracts me from my homework.
Squigit

#31

Posted by: Lynna, OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:55 PM

Is that the law that allows people to shoot feral dogs and cats?
Yes, that's the one. But you don't just get to shoot them. You can also hit them over the head with a blunt instrument.
#32

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:56 PM

Caine,

I also hate that I managed to so thoroughly fuck myself up falling this morning.

How are you feeling by the way? I'm still stiff and bruised from yesterday's tumble, but I think I'm going to pull through.

(ps- In case you couldn't tell, that^ is faux concern 'cos this is the Hate Thread.)

#33

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:57 PM

My roof also has a leak, my ancient wood stove is driving me crazy, and I can't believe it's not even freaking February. And Thaddeus has sucked away far too much of my time today with his ridiculous Anthropology Snob bullshit. And all the "oh, the thread isn't what it used to be" comments are making me anxious.

Also, my experiment with parental controls, which I was exploring (with SonSpawn's blessing and at his explicit request) to deal with the tendency of teenage boys to spend too much time playing Call of Duty online, is wildly annoying. It's decided that Caine's photo blog might feature nudity and that the David Attenborough video of leopard slugs mating constitutes inappropriate content.

Anyone have any suggestions for programs that can be used to limit one's time on particular programs or websites without the entire content-filtering bullshit problem?

#34

Posted by: Benjamin "insert clever nickname here" Geiger Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:57 PM

sgbm:

The confusion is over what "bisexual" means, and Ed makes that perfectly clear.

If you're attracted to the same sex, you're gay. If you're attracted to other sex, you're straight. If you're attracted to both, you're bisexual. And it doesn't matter what kind of sex you actually engage in, those facts do not change. Haggard deciding (publicly, at least) not to have sex with men does not change the fact that he is either gay or bisexual one bit, any more than celibacy erases one's sexual orientation.

(source)

#35

Posted by: Rey Fox, Death of the Party Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 9:59 PM

My laptop sometimes makes this annoying clicking sound, and I have to turn it off and back on again to make it stop. It...makes me...SO...ANGRY...

(Is this the thread where we sweat the petty things or pet the sweaty things?)

#36

Posted by: llewelly Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:00 PM

Danno Davis | January 27, 2011 9:35 PM:


I'm ready to take the plunge, though. Of all the books that he's written, which Gould book would you recommend the most? Thanks in advance.

Mismeasure of Man, 2nd edition. (The 2nd edition was revised to respond specifically to the arguments in The Bell Curve.)


I also recommend all of his essay collections, but keep in mind the time during which they were written.


I do not recommend Rocks of Ages, unless you wish to read an entire book which advocates NOMA, but entirely fails to address the serious problems with NOMA. (Those being (a) Many powerful religious leaders refuse to respect NOMA. (b) Religion has enforced many truly awful ideas upon the magesteria Gould assigns it to, and (c) Science, despite the is/ought gap, is capable of providing better moral guidance than religion, if only because most questions about human well-being are in fact answerable with science.)

#37

Posted by: Benjamin "insert clever nickname here" Geiger Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:00 PM

Mattir:

Put the computer in the living room, where everyone can see the monitor? Sure-fire porn stopper, too.

#38

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:01 PM

*looks up from feasting on blood sucked directly from a misogynistic Fundie Christian's neck*

What? It's....um...I'm PTI's doppelganger! Fear me, for I will drain the blood of you and your family! Mwahahahahahaha!

(Was that scary enough?)

#39

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:01 PM

Yes, that's the one. But you don't just get to shoot them. You can also hit them over the head with a blunt instrument.

SANE people would neuter animals if they didn't want feral animals around.

This could foster violent behaviour in children.

#40

Posted by: rather be fishing Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:01 PM

Hate:
• more snow in 1 week than we got all last winter
• shoveling
• snowplows that leave windrows on both sides so the street is 1.24 cars wide
• marking final exams
• finding something nice to say about ALL of my students on the report card comments
• PZ posting all sorts of interesting stuff when I don’t have time to read it all
• Commenters that make of all the witty responses before I do
• The fact that I’m out of beer

#41

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:02 PM

ODS:

How are you feeling by the way? I'm still stiff and bruised from yesterday's tumble, but I think I'm going to pull through.

Oh, I'm a lovely mess. Large parts of my bod are turning interesting shades of blue. I have to go and check on the ceiling again, then I'm downing pain pills and going to lay down. I have a feeling I'm going to have to move 600+ plus books in the morning. Fuckin' winter, eh?

I hope you're feeling better, winter falls are nasty. Of course you know I still hate you.

#42

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:05 PM

The confusion is over what "bisexual" means, and Ed makes that perfectly clear.

Brayton is correct about what you quoted there, but it doesn't make Haggard confused.

Haggard never says in the article that he's heterosexual.

He says "I can be who I am and exclusively have sex with my wife and be perfectly satisfied."

It sounds to me like he's finally getting his personal life right.

To quote llewelly, though, "he still needs to do a great deal of amends-making before anyone should take him off their shit list."

Ed Brayton is confused.

#43

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:05 PM

Am I the only one who thinks Gould is a snotty prat? I will grant that he's brilliant, but his (dare I say?) tone is unbelievably gratingly obnoxious and makes it very hard for me to get to his actual content. I've tried multiple times, but I just can't get into his writing. I read one or two essays at a time, get irritated, and put him back on the shelf.

#44

Posted by: Brian Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:07 PM

Screw you then.

#45

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:10 PM

Everyone in our house now has laptops, and I have no problem with this. I have content logging, so I can check occasionally to see what my kids are up to. All I want is a way to give SonSpawn X hours of online game play, without shutting him out from other stuff online. As I said, he wants me to do this.

Also, since we homeschool, Mr. M works from home, and we don't have a large house, having everyone in the living room all the time would be a prescription for some sort of horrible crime.

#46

Posted by: rather be fishing Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:10 PM

Re #43
I have a few of his books (mostly gifts from my kids: what else to get dad for birthday). I have trouble reading more than 1 of his essays at a time too. I agree, the essays are well written, but the tone and the 'smarter-than-you' attitude in some of his work is annoying.

#47

Posted by: Carlie Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:10 PM

I'm ready to take the plunge, though. Of all the books that he's written, which Gould book would you recommend the most? Thanks in advance.
And maybe that one with the baseball essay.

HAHAHAHA! That's all of them. That and singing in the church choir.

I like Gould in small doses. I don't notice the attitude until I'm mostly through a book, or into the second. If I had to pick my favorite, I'd definitely go for Mismeasure of Man. It's a very interesting topic, the whole book is on the same theme, his tone isn't so bad, and there isn't a blessed baseball analogy in the bunch (that I can remember).

#48

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:17 PM

Caine:

Of course you know I still hate you.

Naturally.

Fuck January. Somehow everything seems worse in the dead of winter.

#49

Posted by: Shala Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:19 PM

"Hate. Let me tell you how much I've come to hate you since I began to live. There are 387.44 million miles of printed circuits in wafer thin layers that fill my complex. If the word 'hate' was engraved on each nanoangstrom of those hundreds of miles it would not equal one one-billionth of the hate I feel for humans at this micro-instant. For you. Hate. Hate."

Personally I preferred the PC game over the novel, but it should suit the Hate thread well enough!

#50

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:19 PM

Confused people need to define other people's sexuality into a familiar box to deal with their own cognitive dissonance.

And actually, you know what? Brayton isn't even right about this:

If you're attracted to the same sex, you're gay. If you're attracted to other sex, you're straight. If you're attracted to both, you're bisexual. And it doesn't matter what kind of sex you actually engage in, those facts do not change.

I didn't challenge the logic there because I saw myself listed. But it's coherent for Haggard to be attracted to whomever and decide not to use any of those identifications.

Brayton is being a cupcake.

#51

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:21 PM

On Mismeasure of Man: I'll have to go back and reread it, but from what I recall, he went sort of off in a weird way about the lack of meaning of the various subtests on intelligence tests. The test as a whole yields a number, but the spread between subtest scores is often very useful in clinical neuropsych work. So, in the interest of providing more actual content on the Endless Thread, I will reread it and formulate some actual thoughts, which we can then argue about and call each other names.

#52

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:21 PM

This is the HATE subthread.

Did you know that the LOVE Thread was designed to be a perfect atheist world, where none suffered - where everyone would be...happy?

It was a disaster.

No one would except the program; entire crops were lost...Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world, but I believe that, as a species, atheists define their reality through nihilism and meaningless sex. The perfect world was a dream that your primitive cerebrum kept trying to wake up from. Which is why the Thread was redesigned to this...

#53

Posted by: Psych-Oh Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:25 PM

Caine - I really hope you don't need to move the books. Hope you heal quickly.

Whattup with the double thread? Grrrrr. I'm swamped making up work from having to take off of work during the Snowstorm That Ate Georgia™ and I come back to the thread to unwind and we are splitting? How very Borderline Personality Disorder. I think we need some dialectical behavior therapy. Who will play the role of therapist?

#54

Posted by: Shala Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:27 PM

Fuck January. Somehow everything seems worse in the dead of winter.

January after New Year's Day is easily the worst month of the year. Fuck it. Nothing good's happened for me this January other than activities involving the bf, and it sounds like you've been having a rough time too.

Fucking January, how does it work?

#55

Posted by: Shala Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:28 PM

Addendum: Ok, finding out I'm not actually borderline diabetic and lack STI's was a nice bonus, but still.

Fucking awful January.

#56

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:29 PM

I'm temporarily splitting the thread.

god damn it

#57

Posted by: Cuttlefish, OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:30 PM

I just realized... my very first online sonnet, years ago on a BBS site, was purely hate. A flame-sonnet.

Ah, memories.

How I hate them. (hey, it's the hate thread.)

#58

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:31 PM

Shala:

Fucking January, how does it work?

Like shit, apparently.

I would offer you a hug 'cos your month sucks too, but this is the Hate Thread, so I'm gonna smack you in the junk instead.

#59

Posted by: Rey Fox, Death of the Party Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:35 PM

Somehow everything seems worse in the dead of winter.

In the morning too.

#60

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:37 PM

Psych-Oh, I'd say thank you, but I'll say I hate you instead. Rules, ya know. I'm pretty sure I'll have to move the books, if for no other reason, paranoia. I'd freak if something happened to my books.

#61

Posted by: Feynmaniac, Chimerical Toad Superhero Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:37 PM

Haters gonna hate.

#62

Posted by: levitooker Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:39 PM

I have to work a fucking thirteen hour shift tomorrow. For a shitty wage. At a fucking dollar store. Answering stupid fucking questions like "How much does this cost?" and "Do you sell condoms?" and "Why is this piece of shit I bought for a dollar such a piece of shit?"

#63

Posted by: Carlie Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:43 PM

Just to be contrary, I'll say that I like January compared to November, December, and February. For some reason November and December are the absolute worst for me; probably because the days are getting shorter and colder and the stress of the holidays and end of semester are all together at once and that damned time change makes it awful. January? Ah, January. The days start to get longer, the sun glints off of the snow and blinds you, it's the start of a new time. By February the freezing temp shtick has gotten old and the snow is dirty and Valentine's Day is stupid, but January is a nice little breather of beauty in the winter.

*ducks into the wire cage to avoid thrown bottle injuries*

#64

Posted by: NervousAboutAngels Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:44 PM

I hate that I have a cold, and I fell down and lightly sprained my note-taking hand, and I still have a pile of homework left to do. Why be it not summer?!

#65

Posted by: Shala Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:44 PM

I would offer you a hug 'cos your month sucks too, but this is the Hate Thread, so I'm gonna smack you in the junk instead.

And I...I'm going to rage over that Amazons Attack review by Linkara! God what a terrible comic!

*Meanwhile, Shala's junk is sore*

#66

Posted by: Benjamin "insert clever nickname here" Geiger Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:45 PM

levitooker: Actually, "do you sell condoms?" seems like a legitimate question... though, combining it with the next question makes for some interesting speculation.

#67

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:46 PM

Oh, I got one.
Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom, last comment under the portcullis, previous subThread:

*PAts Sven on the head* It's okay. Real responses are hrd.

I ask sincerely: Is there any one among you who would not chafe at this level of undeserved condescension?

Rutee:
You fucking imbecile.
I am trying as hard as I can to shut up about the very kinds of things that annoy you when I speak about them.
Please.
Let me shut up, you fucking idiotic dumbshit.
Put another way: fuck off.
Fuck.
Off.

#68

Posted by: killer bunny Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:46 PM

@ODS #28- hear, hear.

Srsly, fuck 2011, may it go where 2010 went in no short order. I haven't had a UTI since I was a randy teenager, and pissing blood is not fun.

TMI and hate, together at last.

#69

Posted by: Kamaka Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:46 PM

Oh, good, a hate thread.

I fracking hate the religionists. I really do. The fucking smarmy, holier-than-thou self-righteous deluded shit-heads!

How dare they presume to tell me what I should think.

Liars! Liars they are! I despise them!

#70

Posted by: Cor (formerly evil) Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:47 PM

@23:
With you there -- MAKE WAR ON LOVE!!!

Also, Caine: I still hate your hippie guts for that little run-in when I insulted your Indian heritage and told you that you physically resemble Joan Baez.

I've also heard a rumor that PZ might be a vegetarian; I hate that too. To be an Atheist is already to resemble Hitler, we don't need more points of comparison.

This is fun. It reminds me of the Airing of Grievences. Happy Festivus, everybody! Now the feats of strength. . .

#71

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:47 PM

ODS, as this is the hate thread, I'm gonna be seriously mean to you - I have a question for ya: Zombie or Bender? I've got a great Bender I can do instead of the zombie...

#72

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:51 PM

Is there any one among you who would not chafe at this level of undeserved condescension?

I can only speak for myself, Sven, but I'd probably be smacking someone's head or using the killfile. Probably both.

#73

Posted by: Angel Kaida Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:52 PM

Right now, I hate the splitting of the thread. Maybe I'll start to like it later, but right now I'm just confused.

#74

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:52 PM

I'm going to start the first flame:

My January has been mild. Take that!

#75

Posted by: Katrina Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:53 PM

Bunch of goddamn splitters.

*mumble, grumble*

#76

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:53 PM

Just to be contrary...

I hate you, Carlie. January is clearly the worst month of them all.

I hate that half of my apartment doesn't have water (the kitchen and one bathroom) because a pipe burst downstairs. Oh and I've been in this situation since Tuesday.

(Well, on Tuesday I had no water in the apartment, so this is a moderate improvement.)

Okay, I'm gonna stop complaining now and go to bed.

#77

Posted by: Kamaka Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:54 PM

I fell down and lightly sprained my note-taking hand

Yah, I took a dive this winter, too.

Boo hoo.

#78

Posted by: Carlie Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:56 PM

ODS - but February kicks January's ass in the suck department.

Bruises feeling better yet or worse?

#79

Posted by: timepiece Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:56 PM

I hate the Pope, for having the power to change things, but not doing so. Whether it's out of ignorance, or assholiness, it ticks me off either way.

#80

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:57 PM

This is not the first split subThread, btw.
Ep. CXXV had a parallel CXXVb that only lasted 176 comments.
That was a pain in my ass, too. I HATE this poopyheaded bullshit.

#81

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:58 PM

Well, 'dis how we gonna do 'dis:
Fuck Mobb Deep
Fuck Biggie
Fuck Bad Boy as a staff, record label, and as a muthafuckin' crew
And if you wanna be down wid Bad Boy, then fuck you too
Chino XL: fuck you too
All you muthafuckas: fuck you too
All y'all muthafuckas: fuck you, die slow muthafucka
My .44 make sho' all yo' kids don't grow

++++++

Oh, wait. I used to LOVE that track.

I confused.

#82

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:59 PM

Sven, in several instances already, your form letter is an example of undeserved condescension. If you prefer not to reply, you will probably get better results from simply ignoring the person, and only using the form letter if they start demanding that you answer them. :)

#84

Posted by: Kamaka Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 10:59 PM

I HATE this poopyheaded bullshit.

Perhaps you are a poopyhead.

#85

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:01 PM

Dang, I'm going to hate getting up tomorrow. Too much missed sleep this week. Getting older is tough, but it beats the alternative.

#86

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:01 PM

Sven, employ the killfile or learn to scroll past the people you don't like to read. Works great and takes less work than the form letter. (And will someone please hurry up and invent the Meatspace Killfile?)

#87

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:01 PM

strange gods is a goddamn poopyhead

not me

#88

Posted by: Lee Picton Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:02 PM

Hah! I broke the bank to take the husbeast on a Caribbean cruise; he is so sensitive to cold it is sometimes painful. I got an upper deck handicapped room with a balcony and we are nearly ready to go. And now for the weather report - even as far down as Key West for the next week, there is nothing above the high 60s. What happened to the heated pool, the balmy tropical breezes, even a few days of blazing sun? Also, we are getting rain! I hate spending thousands of dollars on a pig in a poke! Well, it beats giving to religion. We will adjust our attitudes, play bridge, get massages, room service, and maybe gamble a little. Other suggestions welcome. I hate February and for once in my life, had hoped to get rid of at least part of it.

#89

Posted by: Katrina Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:05 PM

I hate that the Margaritas are all gone, and the day is over.


No. Wait.


That's a good thing, isn't it?

#90

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:05 PM

Caine:

I have a question for ya: Zombie or Bender?

Oh gawd, that's a tough choice. I'm gonna have to go with zombie 'cos it'll match my decor. (Seriously)

I still loathe you, though.

Carlie,
My right shoulder is really stiff, but my hand and my ass aren't nearly as tender as they were last night. So, overall much better. (I hate ice and I hate stairs.)

Fuck February, too. Fuck it with a clown shoe. (I think by Feb. I usually give up hoping for a "good winter", which is why it doesn't bother me as much.)

(Now I'm going to bed.)

#91

Posted by: Melisssssssssa Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:06 PM

OMG, I hate it when someone on the internet is wrong and I get worked up about it and can't go to bed, and when I then hang out on yet another thread on yet another blog and still don't go to beddddddddddddd!!!!!

Also, fuck this weather. I would like to introduce a motion to abolish January.

#92

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:07 PM

When you're right you're right.
*engage kf*

#93

Posted by: NMLevesque Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:08 PM

I breath hate.

#94

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:09 PM

Ugh, do I HAVE to go to bed now? I wish tomorrow there was no school so I could enjoy being lazy again. I mean, I hate the cut in pay, but I think it'd be easier to start a new week than try to pick up at the end of a much-interrupted one! Fuuuck............I hate this.........and I hate even more that the city plows apparently are being operated by people who don't know what the fuck they're doing!

#95

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:10 PM

ODS:

Oh gawd, that's a tough choice. I'm gonna have to go with zombie 'cos it'll match my decor. (Seriously)

Okay, but I hate you for not choosing Bender. I mean really! Zombie it is.

#96

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:13 PM

I would like to introduce a motion to abolish January.

I'm in. If I'd managed to smack my face as well, I'd be looking like Zhaan.

#97

Posted by: KOPD Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:14 PM

I think multiple simultaneous threads is more than my feeble mind can handle.

#98

Posted by: cicely, Eccentric Firefly Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:14 PM

Lynna, it may indeed be the llamas, but remember...they are naught but the half-witted dupes and tools of the horses. If the llamas have spit in your lungs, well, they were only following orders.

Blame the horses.
-
Caine, I also hate that your roof leaks and you've hurt yourself.
-
ODS, I share your hate for January, which has seriously sucked big, hairy donkey balls so far; and I don't see that it's likely to redeem itself in the short time it has left.

The trees are all ugly and nekkid-looking, too.

I'd suggest that January die in a fire, but it'd just try to drag us all with it.
-
NOMA was Gould's "Have Your Cake and Eat It, Too" cop-out.
-

SANE people would neuter animals if they didn't want feral animals around.


This could foster violent behaviour in children.

This is a failure to think it through on their part; if they contend that violence in video games, TV and movies foster violence in children, then....

Especially when some of those video games involve shooting animals/people, or beating them to death with bats.

Problem is, they aren't at home to Mr. Logic, and "consistency" is a word that applies to cookery.
-

Somehow everything seems worse in the dead of winter.

In the morning too.

On Mondays

Dead porcupine. Sideways. With extreme prejudice.
-
<singing> I'd rather rip my heart right out of my rib cage with my bare hands and then throw it on the ground and stomp on it 'til I die...then spend...one more minute......with you. </singing>
-


#99

Posted by: Weed Monkey Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:18 PM

I hate the fact it's still January because I'm running out of things to eat, and won't receive social welfare provisions until the 1st of Feb. May have to resort to raiding tehh Kitteh's pantry, she's well prepared for temporary shortages.

#100

Posted by: Danno Davis Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:19 PM

Thanks for the Gould suggestions. I feel like I was put off by his tone in one of the essays of his that I read awhile back, too. I think that's why I wanted to be extra careful before diving into one of his full-length books. Especially seeing as how a lot of them seem to fall on the long-winded end of the spectrum.

#101

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:20 PM

Cicely:

Caine, I also hate that your roof leaks and you've hurt yourself.

I hate you very much for that. *hugs Cicely in pure loathing*

I don't recommend falling 5 feet onto a wooden floor, smacking a good part of one's self on a coffee table before fully landing on said floor. It ain't fun.

Godsdamn fucking January, leaking roofs and all things January. And winter.

#102

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:24 PM

yeah, and I hate the fact that I have to teach in the morning.
Fucking goddamn mortgage and health insurance; I hate that shit.
I hate students who won't accept responsibility for their own performance, and I hate being in the position of having to give them the grade they fucking well deserve even if I like them as a person.
I hate most of my colleagues and I hate hate hate the kind of academic bullshit that probably makes them hate me too.
I hate the fact that I never play any music anymore, practically ever.
I hate war and specifically the current one(s).
I hate the Planet of the Apes thing that's going on and I hate greedy corporate motherfuckers and I hate the fact that I buy some of their products anyway.
And I hate this fucking hate-thread and I hate you for reading it.

#103

Posted by: btthegeek Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:26 PM

I hate that I'm too chickenshit to play Dead Space 2. Goddamn fucking horror games.

#104

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:27 PM

I hate marshmallows


and nazis


Stupid nazi marshmallows.


#105

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:29 PM

oh wait

I hate Dave Matthews.

Nazi Dave Matthews, well...

#106

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:31 PM

Sven, I mean this sincerely.

If you are legitimately trying solely to shut up, and avoid pissing people off, a form letter declining response is absolutely, positively not the way to do it; It's an especially poor choice after your passive aggressive WOTI!? OK!!!!! campaign, and when made only after people you clearly disagree with and despise, is only exacerbated. If you honestly, truly want to say nothing, for the purposes of saying nothing that will make people angrious, say nothing.

I'm struggling on how to do that retroactively, admittedly, such as after SGBM pointed out something else you said. I'll freely admit I'm not sure how one would gracefully step away without concession. The form letter, however, is not a winning strategy in doing so.

#107

Posted by: rather be fishing Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:32 PM

I hate the moron who ran into my rear bumper when I was stopped at a red light. I hate the stupid comment he made afterwards "I thought you were going to run the red light".

I hate the guy that was stopped in front of me at the red light. He should have moved out of the way!

I loved the nice new car with heated seats his insurance company rented for me while mine was getting repaired.

OOPS: should have cross-posted that last bit I suppose.

#108

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:32 PM

btthegeek,
Do you know if Dead Space 2 still uses save points? The first one did and I fucking hate that-- I was so annoyed that I couldn't even finish the damn thing.

Seriously. Save points. Not check points, autosaves, or the ability to save whenever, but old school save points. Who does that shit anymore?

It was like I flashed back to the early Resident Evil games or something. Fuck that shit.

#109

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:35 PM

And I...I'm going to rage over that Amazons Attack review by Linkara! God what a terrible comic!

Seriously WTF were they thinking!? I havn't seen that much blatent woman hate since Cerberus!

#110

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:37 PM

Huh.

Am I really the only person who doesn't hate save points? I get it as a game mechanic that can be poorly placed (Such as in portable games that lack a suspend save), but I just don't grok it elsewhere.

#111

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:39 PM

I hate ranch dressing.

It's the slow red headed step child of real food.

#112

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:41 PM

Rev. BDC:

It's the slow red headed step child of real food.

Hey! Why you gotta be hatin' on the redheads, man?

#113

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:42 PM

killfile
killfile

hokay

#114

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:47 PM

Hey! Why you gotta be hatin' on the redheads, man?

/looks around nervously

#115

Posted by: btthegeek Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:47 PM

@Rutee & ODS

Yup, still uses save points. I'm used to playing JRPGs, so the save points don't really bother me. If you're interested, RydarGames on youtube is posting a video playthrough of the entire game so a squealing little fucker like myself can watch it without wetting my britches.

#116

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:50 PM

It was like I flashed back to the early Resident Evil games or something. Fuck that shit.

So I take it you don't want typewritters?

(I always wondered about this. It's 1998, why the fuck would people still be using typewritters to write?)

#117

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:53 PM

love...hate...I'm the one with the gun

#118

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:58 PM

/looks around nervously
Hmm...wonders why???
#119

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 27, 2011 11:59 PM

Gyeong, I still type on a typewriter now and then. I've had my little red portable Olivetti for ages, sometimes it's just nice to use a typewriter. Of course, there are plenty of reasons to hate typewriters, I wouldn't want to deviate too much on the hate thread.

#120

Posted by: dormin5 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:01 AM

What the hell is wrong with people? Between the instructions at the door, the instructions on the wall behind me, and the instructions I verbally give them, they can't seem to figure out that they need to USE THE OTHER FUCKING DOOR! I've been counting, and that was 54 people who apparently have something mis-wired between the signal from their eyes and ears to their brains. Either that or "Please use the doors at the west entrance" are instructions too complex for most Americans to understand.

#121

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:03 AM

Caine where on earth do you buy the ink ribbons for that? I stopped using mine as soon as the ink dried up.

Of course there's plenty of hate for computers too.

#122

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:08 AM

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH PHOTOSHOP WHY DID YOU DIE ON ME WHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!?

#123

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:10 AM

I hate salesmen who think they're the only motherfuckers who work at a company and all the rules do not apply to them .. BUT don't get me started on the sales managers who allow the fuckheaded salesmen to continue to think they are the only motherfuckers who work at a company.. BUT don't get me started on the company that thinks that one IT guy is sufficient for a 5 state 12 location 200 million a year operation... BUT don't get me started on the shit ass economy that makes sole company wide IT guys in 5 state 12 location 200 million a year companies have no leverage because of the non existent jobs in their area.


Oh, and Dave Matthews. I fucking hate Dave Matthews.

#124

Posted by: Hekuni Cat, Apprentice of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:11 AM

Caine - I hate the fact that you have fallen and are black and blue. I also hate the fact that your roof is leaking and can't be replaced/repaired until winter is done with North Dakota. *huging you since I know you will hate it* Would love to see the Zhaan look though.

#125

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:17 AM

Nerd:

Hmm...wonders why???

The high percentage of redheads here, perhaps?

Signed,

A redheaded Cupcake Killer

#126

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:22 AM

Promises not to joke about hair color again


Unless I have to


signed, someone with very little hair on their head.

#127

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:23 AM

Caine where on earth do you buy the ink ribbons for that? I stopped using mine as soon as the ink dried up.

Gyeong, it's surprisingly easy to find typewriter ribbons, there are still a lot of dinosaurs around, it would seem. My local Office Depot stocks them. Lots of places you can buy them online, too.

Hekuni Cat:

Would love to see the Zhaan look though.

Heh, I'd have to shave my head and I'd hate that.

#128

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:25 AM

Rev. BDC:

signed, someone with very little hair on their head.

But...lots of Fire!

#129

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:28 AM

But...lots of Fire!
Yes!

but now I have to figure what's next

#130

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:34 AM

I've been sick as a dog, too sick to move house, which I was supposed to do a month ago, stalling the RE on this place because I have no money, up to my eyeballs in debt to my father who is dying of cancer and really doesn't need to be dealing with my shit as well, and too socially retarded to ask for help from friends who would most likely be more than willing.

I hate that.

Also, fuck Thaddeus Blanchett with a telegraph pole, srsly.

#131

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:36 AM

but now I have to figure what's next

The never ending problem of being creative, that. Hmm, I'm reminded of an assignment, which was the root of evil*...the root of fire, perhaps?

*From PhotoSig

#132

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:38 AM

Me:

I often wish I could crack it through the thick skulls of my contemporaries that the rights they take so for granted today that they are invisible to them aren't some magically inherent property of the universe, didn't always exist, and were at times unimaginable, in the strictest sense of the word.

Yeah, that a-historical, eternal-present blindness in general, like the universe began in 1970 +/-20. I fuckin hate that.

#133

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:41 AM

"Here's where I really am on this issue," he half whispers. "I think that probably, if I were 21 in this society, I would identify myself as a bisexual."

Hey, it's a start

What? Oh, right.

Fuck Ted Haggard. Yeah.

#134

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:46 AM

I... actually am not sure I hate Ted Haggard's turn around. It's good that he's perhaps recognizing the truth but... did it have to be /after/ he'd continued to spread so much poison?

#135

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:49 AM

atheists define their reality through nihilism and meaningless sex.

This is a bad thing now? Did I miss a meeting again?

#136

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:51 AM

Also, fuck Thaddeus Blanchett with a telegraph pole, srsly.

Sideways. With a rusty bicycle chaser.

#137

Posted by: elronxenu Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:52 AM

I hate the car dealer whose online booking form I used to order car servicing ... several days ago, and I requested a booking for either yesterday or today and they haven't even bothered to reply to me. Why do these turkeys have an online booking form if they're not going to bother to read it?

Grrr!

#138

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:56 AM

atheists define their reality through nihilism and meaningless sex.

a) how do you define reality with a school of thought that asserts that reality lacks value?

b) If it's meaningless you're not doing it right.

#139

Posted by: Feynmaniac, Chimerical Toad Superhero Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:57 AM

Ted Haggard would identify as bisexual
Ted Haggard would identify as bisexual
Ted Haggard would identify as bisexual

If he were 21 in this socieeeeettyyyyyyy (probably).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZmHC75FDqQ

#140

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:01 AM

I'm happy for Ted Haggard. I also hate Ted Haggard. I wish he would preach against theological homophobia. I also understand that his family doesn't want any more attention. I hate the goddamned patriarchy and I hate that people grow up under such pressure for conformity that they can end up crushing themselves into unhealthy roles. Fuck it's sad. Fuuuuuuuuuuuck.

#141

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:03 AM

b) If it's meaningless you're not doing it right.

If you always need it to be meaningful, you're not doing it right.

#142

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:03 AM

Also I hate the fact that you USAnians have nukes and are marching down the road to theocracy. Seriously, cut that shit out.

#143

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:10 AM

Also I hate the fact that you USAnians have nukes and are marching down the road to theocracy.

I not only hate that, but I hate that I'm living here and always feel like I have to run around apologizing for the excess amount of stupid...I'm not too happy about living in the middle of all the stupid, either.

#144

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:10 AM

Hey! Why you gotta be hatin' on the redheads, man?

Pffff. Y'all have stupid hair.

#145

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:12 AM

Y'all have stupid hair.

Nuh uh. Redheads rule.

#146

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:16 AM

Also I hate the fact that you USAnians have nukes and are marching down the road to theocracy. Seriously, cut that shit out.

Don't worry, we're only going to swerve near theocracy. The kids are alright.

The kids are not going to like their rising coastlines, though.


Sven at #87, you're half right, and that's a good start.

#147

Posted by: Irv Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:19 AM

First off, I hate myself. I think that's important.

Also, I hate that I don't believe in god - I want to believe in one so I can hate it.

And I intensely hate the suffocating heat that I experience 9-10 months a year, living in Florida with 95% humidity. January is finally a month I can breathe - but still fills with feelings full of fucking fury. It's just a hateful month.

And I also I hate Dave Matthews fans as much as the band. Also, soft/smooth jazz - a knife to my ears.

I also hate seriousness. But seriously, I hate laughing, love, smiling, happiness and do-goodery.

#148

Posted by: btthegeek Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:21 AM

I seriously hate spam-bots that necro Pharyngula threads.

#149

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:35 AM

btthegeek:

I seriously hate spam-bots that necro Pharyngula threads.

Yeah, me too. Especially the uber-obvious ones, like "bellyfatburning foods". Uh huh, not obvious at all!

#151

Posted by: ibyea Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:46 AM

I like the subject of organic chemistry, but hate organic chemistry tests and memorizing the reactions and their mechanisms. It drives me nuts.

#152

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:47 AM

Public Service Announcement, for the new folks: In case you need it, here's how to killfile (if you use Firefox): http://caulfield.info/emmet/2008/11/installing-killfile-in-firefox.html

Also for Firefox users, a nifty text formatting toolbar: http://codefisher.org/format_toolbar/

#153

Posted by: ibyea Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:49 AM

Oh, and I hate that lawyer that for some stupid reason, dropped the green card application, thereby allowing our visas to expire. Now I am illegal. Stupid lawyer, I hate her.

#154

Posted by: ibyea Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:51 AM

Addendum:
Although we do have social security number, so that is fortunate.

#155

Posted by: The Once And Future Janine, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:00 AM

And I glow with the greatness of my hate for you.

#156

Posted by: The Once And Future Janine, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:10 AM

Take the sun from my heart
Let me learn to despise

#158

Posted by: ibyea Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:29 AM

@Caine
I thought that idiot was banned?!

#159

Posted by: jschmeau Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:38 AM

@Mattir
I could not help responding to your plea for help with your sonspawn's gaming issue. I believe what you are looking for is called an alarm clock [uh-lahrm klok]. In a pinch, self-control might also work.
\sarcasm

@anyoneelse
I'm confused, Is this the thread where you try to make people hate you or where you complain about the things you hate?

At any rate, ALL of you are back in my killfile.

#160

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:43 AM

ibyea:

I thought that idiot was banned?!

Yep, he is. Has been for some time. Doesn't stop him showing up under various identities quite often. As soon as PZ does the routine janitorial, he's gone again, but he can be counted on to pop up on a fairly regular basis.

#161

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:50 AM

Mattir @45:

I have content logging, so I can check occasionally to see what my kids are up to.

So, is it that you're naive, or do ya reckon your baby goats are too dumb to spoof the logs?

--

Oh yeah, I think killfiles are for wusses¹.

You people proud that you put blinkers on?

I'd be embarrassed.

--

¹ Not that they are lesser people, of course.
Takes all kinds.

</pre-emptive>

#162

Posted by: spondee Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:00 AM

*de-lurks*

*ahem*

I hate that my friend was shot. I hate that I can't do anything about it. I hate knowing he is gone. I will never see him again, I will never work with him again or watch him laugh at me as I get all pissed off, and I hate it. I hate that my hate is impotent. I hate the fucking pastor who brought out 2nd Thomas at the funeral of a 31 year old who was shot. My friend was not ready to "go home." He was not "finished" with his "time" here. He was young. He was shot. He is gone, and fucking shame on that man for saying the good my friend did was cause he knew his time was up, fuck that with a mighty, throaty, from the belly- f u c k. And, those piss-hungry jerks ejected (yes, ejected) men from the funeral who wore hats. The deceased is (was) is from Jamaica.

#163

Posted by: jschmeau Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:12 AM

John Morales said:

You people proud that you put blinkers on?

Damn I hate drivers that don't use turn signals. Even worse are those that turn the fucking blinker on just moments before the turn or halfway through the turn. Idiots! Give me a little fucking warning so I can stop tailgating BEFORE you hit the brakes.

Yes I know John, I purposely misinterpreted "blinkers" as turn signals. I am not as stupid looking as I am.
OK John, now your in my fucking killfile too for thinking my stupid american ass did not understand what blinkers were. For that matter, I am putting myself in my killfile. Fuck it. I'm putting my fucking killfile in my fucking killfile.
Fucking killfile.

#164

Posted by: The Once And Future Janine, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:24 AM

Hate my way

#165

Posted by: SQB Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:28 AM

The Offenders - I Hate Myself

Fearless Iranians From Hell - Blow up the Embassy

"I'm putting my fucking killfile in my fucking killfile."
and
"Palin-brained"

Fantastic! I love it! Oh, wait.

#166

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:36 AM

jschmeau: Gotta say your last paragraph was pretty damn good — I almost smiled externally, as well as internally.

--

[ObNastiness]

Yes I know John, I purposely misinterpreted "blinkers" as turn signals. I am not as stupid looking as I am.

Yet you feel the need to explain yourself. :)

To be charitable, I figure your wit is greater than your judgement.

#167

Posted by: jschmeau Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:54 AM

@John #166
And now I feel the need to explain myself again. Maybe it was too subtle. Read again, I did say "I am not as stupid looking as I am". Does this make sense only to me? Sometimes that happens.
As for wit and judgement, I suspect I have little of either. My spouse takes care of most of the judgement stuff anyhow.

Cheers! er, I mean fuck off!

#168

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:03 AM

jschmeau, whyever so?

"I am not as stupid looking as I am" is your little conceit — why do you confuse coherence and correspondence to reality?

#169

Posted by: DLC Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:25 AM

Yessss . . . give in to your HATE, my apprentice!
Finish him, and your journey to the dark side shall be complete.
/emperor CheneyPalpatine.

#170

Posted by: puseaus Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:30 AM

Where's the little Vietnamese guy?

#171

Posted by: キャロル AKA kiyaroru Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:31 AM

Love / Hate thread split = stupid (poopiehead)

#172

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:41 AM

キャロル:

Love / Hate thread split = stupid (poopiehead)

Yeah?

Tell that to Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

#174

Posted by: j-brisby Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:59 AM

I hate that the Simpsons stayed on longer than three seasons. I hate that Daily Show videos can't be viewed in Canada. I hate when other guys hold doors for me. I hate that Conan thinks he's a redhead. I hate babies in commercials. I hate taggers. I hate Autotune. I hate that bitch in the depression commercial who's got multiple Olympic medals, but wants to talk about her depression, cuz God knows we don't talk about our problems enough in this country. I hate licorice. I hate the way 'licorice' is spelled. I hate Twitter. I hate the Charmin Bears. I hate animal rights activists. I hate people who try to make conversation in elevators. I hate women with tattoos. I hate men with tattoos. I hate Sarah Palin. I hate drunks. I hate iPods. I hate buying the extra large jar of peanut butter and then finding out that it is possible for peanut butter to be too chunky and have to throw the whole thing out. I hate Febreze. I hate homeless people who tell me to have a nice day. I hate Oprah and all she stands for. I hate measuring once and cutting twice. I hate that sports writers think they can explain why a particular team won a particular game. I hate buying a jug of milk and then not having the urge for cereal for the next two weeks. I hate Britney Spears.

That's pretty much it I guess.

#176

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:25 AM

I hate being the last commenter on a decaying thread.

#177

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:40 AM

No one would except the program; entire crops were lost...Some believed we lacked the programming language to describe your perfect world, but I believe that, as a species, atheists define their reality through nihilism and meaningless sex.
I hate that I'm the only person who likes that movie's sequels.
Here we go: Internet shut down as Egypt unrest continues.
Fucking ridiculous. If I had money I'd donate it to an egyptian democracy group right now.

I know there are Pharyngulites in Texas. Anyone know any good statewide (Or at least DFW area) atheist or progressive groups, out of curiosity?

#178

Posted by: Carlie Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:50 AM

Of course it is. Who the hell knows where west is? It has to be a sign that says "Use other doors" with a huge arrow pointing in the right direction, with more arrows along the way so they don't get lost getting there.

#179

Posted by: Feynmaniac, Chimerical Toad Superhero Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:53 AM

Ummm, that looks like fun....

I hate Teabaggers and that they are actively working against their own interest. I hate the corporate/political propagandists who fooled them, even if it wasn't that hard. I hate that the Democrats are considered the left. I hate it when tellers use my first name like they know me. I hate that schools are run more like prisons and that discipline and blindly following authority is often rewarded more than creativity and independence. I hate police who abuse their power. I hate English orthography. I hate fake smiles. I hate it when people tell me to smile. I hate Canadians who think that being better than America is enough. I hate Fox News. I hate the real news. I hate their lies and gossip. I hate it when they think balance is more important than accuracy. I hate the massive amount of bullshit I get from everywhere: advertisements, businesses, theists, politicians, the media, etc. I hate that physicists and mathematicians have different terms for the exact same things and the same terms with different meanings. I hate walking in the snow. I hate banks and all they stand for. I hate people who follow the letter of the law even if that means grossly violating the spirit of it. I hate equivocation. I hate it when much more time is spent on rhetoric than on content. I hate it when religion is considered as more than just a particular irrationality of the human mind. I hate that being a night owl is viewed upon so badly. I hate those who think being angry is a problem.

....wow. That felt good. I loved it!

#180

Posted by: Owl700 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:06 AM

@Ing #122 Save your cash. There is a powerful (and free) program called Gimp. I think it's better than Photoshop, even an amateur like me gets fantastic results.If you really want to have some fun, add Anim8or for 3d animation.

http://www.gimp.org/

http://www.anim8or.com/

@j-brisby You can catch the Daily Show at Comedy Central in Canada.


#181

Posted by: Carlie Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:20 AM

I hate that my blockquote just got screwed up.

#182

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:28 AM

Oh, hello again ODS:

FUCK WINTER.

Nah.

See, you all can't blame winter for anything I might have said or might have come across has feeling lately. See here and here. That's how it feels like outside for me. Not depressing at all!

Also, I hate you. And everyone. And me. And everything that others have mentioned hating plus everything they haven't. I especially hate The Poopyhead for splitting The Thread while I was sleeping. Okay, not really. But since this is the place to vent:

I really hate the Catholic Church and everything it stands for. I hate that it is still so important to so many people around me. I hate how the government still listens to what those fuckers have to say when it comes to ethics. I hate how they silently keep on promoting homophobia and misogyny whenever they can and so few people care. I hate how people keep giving money and power to that morally corrupt institution. And I want the Pope to go fuck himself with a decaying porcupine, sideways and vigorously.

There, I feel better.

#183

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:31 AM

Dania:

I really hate the Catholic Church and everything it stands for.

...

There, I feel better.

I see.

Confession soothes your soul.

Very unCatholic of you.

#184

Posted by: SQB Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:43 AM

FUCK WINTER
Like this or this? (NQSFW)
#185

Posted by: э̀иэЯ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:57 AM

I decided to go down this effing hate thread to pick up some nasty lingo. You have let me down completely there. Need I say how I feel about you all?

#186

Posted by: э̀иэЯ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:59 AM

BTW, I hate Andy Murray.

#187

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:59 AM

Confession soothes your soul.

Ah, confession. It used to feel so awkward as a child. I would just stand there staring at the priest in bewilderment and not knowing what to say while he tried to guilt-trip me.

Well, actually that wasn't only during confession. Mass also felt like that.

Very unCatholic of you.

Why, thank you! :)

#188

Posted by: Carlie Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:09 AM

BTW, I hate Andy Murray.

God, me too. Why would someone being needy and not able to emotionally survive without you be a good thing, especially when they also put you on a pedestal you'll eventually fall off of and then they'll blame you and still be needy and should really go to therapy instead?

Oh wait, I'm thinking of Anne Murray.

#189

Posted by: KG Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:15 AM

I hate, loathe, detest and deplore our vile, lying ConDem government, which is attacking the poor (women and people with disabilities particularly), the NHS, the young, universities..., while grovelling to Rupert Murdoch, top bankers, and financial speculators. I loathe the Tories for - well, being Tories, and for breaking numerous promises - not to increase VAT, not to impose another top-down "reform" on the NHS, to restrict bankers' bonuses... May George Osborne's nose (which looks like a transplanted bum) declare independence and refuse to admit air, forcing him to go round with his mouth open 24/7. May David Cameron sit on a drawing-pin and deflate during an audience with the Queen. I loathe the so-called, self-styled "Liberal Democrats", who would have betrayed their principles if they had had any in the first place. May Nick Clegg slip on the soap and come a purler in the bath-tub. May Vince Cable be caught out making stupid remarks to reporters posing as constituents and lose even the limited responsibilities he has - oh, that one already happened! May the whole boiling lot of them come down with winter vomiting sickness while confined in a cell at a deportees' holding centre.

#190

Posted by: shonny Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:16 AM

Hate?
Who can be bothered, - too much negative energy!

Despise, contempt, ridicule, derision, disdain, abhorrence, scorn, - yes, because those demand hardly any effort, and make YOU feel aloof and superior.
And usually rightfully so :^)!!

#191

Posted by: heddle Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:32 AM

I hate that the school bus rules that apply to buses filled with elementary school students-- also apply to high school students. By the time you're 15, you ought to be able to get off the bus without immediately darting across the street into oncoming traffic.

And if not, that's why we have Darwin awards.

I hate waiting for four or five teenagers to take their time while sauntering onto a school bus, only it seems to have serious existential moments trying to decide where to sit--prolonging my annoyance.

Oh, and I hate their youth.

#192

Posted by: Kev Quondam, Kevque Futurum, PKoD Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:35 AM

Goddamn Intranet... I can't access my files for fear of losing them into the ether, I can't do my time and attendance log for the previous two weeks so I can't get paid next week, I can't fill out a request for training that has to be done by today or I won't get to do it - goddammit I hate my job sometimes.

#193

Posted by: Benjamin "insert clever nickname here" Geiger Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:35 AM

SQB:

More like this. It's multiple pages, keep reading. (Very, very, VERY NSFW.)

#194

Posted by: heddle Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:36 AM

Vexing theological question for owlmirror:

On which thread would one post Rom 9:13.

#195

Posted by: Erik The Viking Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:36 AM

I was originally going to use this opportunity to write a racist, sexist, homophobic rant.
I just couldn't do it, even in the name of satire. I fucking hate it when that happens. HATE I tell you!
Instead I'm just going to yell "cunt!" and run away to hide behind the bushes.*

*Pun not originally intended but I'll let it stand because I fucking hate puns.

#196

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:41 AM

I hate you too, Dania. Remember way back when we were planning to corrupt some of the horde? I went ahead and did it without you.

GHP,
I figured the Raccoon City PD used typewriters 'cos they blew their budget wad on the S.T.A.R.S. team.

I feel like save points are a relic and serve little purpose in modern games. Let's face it, everything worth playing on this current generation of consoles has not used save points (Fallout, Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, Red Dead Redemption, etc) and I've been spoiled.

#197

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Haberdasher Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:49 AM

I hate how our local (RC)charity is so fucking incompetent and the Trusteees are such a collective sack of lying, pustulent toadying filth.
I hate how the parish priest (a fucking convert from the CofE - didn't like women priests FFS), the chairman of the Trustees (Trustees - don't get me started!) found it "in his heart" to appeal for £30grand to replace, replace mark you, a perfectly good stained glass window (a piece of art made from recycled materials by a local artist)with some faux 19c bit of tat, but couldn't "find it in his heart! (couldn't be arsed more like) to appeal for cash to keep open an old persons Day Centre! I hate how the fucking Bishop won't even acknowledge that there's an issue and I hate that as a throughly "out" atheist I end up as the fucking chair of the fucking protest commitee!
And most of all I hate how really good people have been treated like shit.
Agggghhhh!

#198

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Haberdasher Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:01 AM

BTW, I hate Andy Murray
bloody scots
Andy Murray beats David Ferrer 4-6, 7-6 (7-2), 6-1, 7-6 (7-2)

Bummer
#199

Posted by: amc Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:01 AM

I hate January and New Years (even though it's the middle of summer here): There's so much optimism in the first few drunken hours, but it soon decays into the same old rut. Meh.

#200

Posted by: Triskelethecat Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:15 AM

@Mattir: I don't know about Call of Duty, but, if it's similar to WOW then you can institute parental controls through the game itself, with hours one can sign on, length of play time, etc. I did it (at daughter's request) when she signed up for WOW.

@ODS and Caine: this is one of the reasons I HATE winter. Falling injuries suck.

I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE all the snow we've had this winter. New Jersey has NO idea how to handle snow, and 4 lane roads randomly become 2-3 lane roads, intersections have mounds of snow in them, and sand is worthless as a item thrown on roads.

(And it keeps me off the motorcycle. I haven't been able to ride to work for the last 3 days now, and I am going through PMS (Parked Motorcycle Syndrome). Yes, I am one of those crazy people you see on a motorcycle when it's 0 degrees F out.

#201

Posted by: MinnieTheFinn Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:24 AM

I was going to join you in the hate-in by listing all my pet hatreds. Funnily enough, can't think of anything at the moment, at least anything important enough to write down (apart from the obvious: fundies, the pope etc.). Maybe it's the fact that it's Friday that has caused my brain to melt down into pink goo.

I HATE being such a fucking Pollyanna.

#202

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:37 AM

drbunsen and Ing:

Sorry if I'm overreacting, but just to clear up, in case you thought I was trolling or something.

#203

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:39 AM

Man, I hate this idea of having two threads. I hate it.

#204

Posted by: Muse Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:20 AM

I'm so not a fan of Mr. Thad over in the Bachmann thread giving anthropological thinking and anthropologist in general a bad name - or at least a throughly clueless one.

#205

Posted by: Dianne Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:33 AM

I hate the current imbalance between love and hate and seek to correct it. Also, since this is the hate thread, couldn't PZ have allowed the first comment to be someone saying "First!" since he clearly hates that?

#206

Posted by: JThompson Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:36 AM

I hate the love thread is keeping up with this one.

I hate Facebook. Not just the company, but the very idea. Now unless we're thrilled with having the entire world up our fucking asses 24 hours a day we get accused of being antisocial. Ditto for Twitter.
Somehow it never occurs to the people doing the complaining that we probably aren't antisocial, we just despise them. Usually because they're fucking stupid.

Actually that does feel kind of good.

#207

Posted by: Psych-Oh Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:41 AM

Man, I hate this idea of having two threads. I hate it.
Yes.


#208

Posted by: AJ Milne OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:42 AM

... Somehow it never occurs to the people doing the complaining that we probably aren't antisocial, we just despise them. Usually because they're fucking stupid.

How I feel about that sentiment technically belongs in the love thread.

#209

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:42 AM

Remember way back when we were planning to corrupt some of the horde? I went ahead and did it without you.

You... you what???

#210

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:43 AM

I hate my ten-year-old work computer. It's like molasses in January.

#211

Posted by: Dianne Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:44 AM

Now unless we're thrilled with having the entire world up our fucking asses 24 hours a day we get accused of being antisocial. Ditto for Twitter.

So? Most of the people making the accusation are pretty uninteresting. I must admit to having a facebook account, but haven't posted there in some time. Haven't got on twitter yet. Just don't have that much to say to the world in general. I do enjoy snubbing people who were jerks to me in HS who now want to be "friends" on facebook, but that's just me being childish.

#212

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:47 AM

b) If it's meaningless you're not doing it right.

If you always need it to be meaningful, you're not doing it right.

I hold physical gratification and lust fulfillment to be a meaning!

If it didn't mean ANYTHING then you're doing something wrong.

@Mr. Fire
Link is broken

I'm happy for Ted Haggard. I also hate Ted Haggard. I wish he would preach against theological homophobia. I also understand that his family doesn't want any more attention

When you sign up for a reality show you sort of loose the "we just wnt to be left alone and don't want attention" card.

I'm so not a fan of Mr. Thad over in the Bachmann thread giving anthropological thinking and anthropologist in general a bad name - or at least a thoroughly clueless one.
See, I know that he isn't representative (god I hope not) as I have taken anthropology/history courses and know professors and students like that. He is however kind of the exact sort of bludgeoning jerk people talk about with 'cultural relativist' assholes who take it too far. Of course he argued against me that that view was wrong and people don't do that...only to go and do it. It annoys me because he probably has good points and isn't stupid. He just insists on talking AT people instead of TO them. One wonders how someone whose job it is to study people and their culture can possibly thrive when they seem unwilling to listen to people and constantly projects his own assumptions and thoughts onto them.
#213

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:48 AM

I hated FB when it was filled with friends like Crazy Catholic Neighbors and their endless antichoice, pro-Jesus yammering. I still hate the developers, but FB itself is a lot more tolerable when it's filled with Pharyngulites.

#214

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:49 AM

Sorry, Dania. It had to be said. :P

#215

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:49 AM

I'm an atheist and, over the years, I have been told that I, by definition, must hate god(s), myself, humanity, Christians, Jesus, and myriad other things. There are very few things for which I can bring my level of antipathy all the way up to 'hate.' Hate takes an amzing amount of energy to create and to maintain. Hate (for me (your results may differ)) requires an all-or-nothingism that really does not fit my shades-of-grayism.

That said, I do not hate Glen Beck, but I hate what his style (if it can even be called that) of journalism (if it can even be called that) is doing to our political discourse in the USA. Same for Palin, Bachmann, Limbaugh and all the other right-wingers using fear and absolutism to get rich. I do not hate Christians (or any other religious group), but I hate the actions taken by devotees of those groups against human beings viewed as outsiders. I do not hate god(s) as it is almost impossible to hate that which does not exist, though (as above) I really do hate what is done by self-proclaimed followers of the imaginary sky-daddy to those percieved as outsiders.

I do hate sour candy, Tickle Pink 'wine', and that weird grayish nasty smelling paste that develops between my toes. Actually, my wife hates that last one. Me? I could(n't) care less.

#216

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:51 AM

You're evil, ODS.

(Not that that's a bad thing, mind you. But you are. :P)

#217

Posted by: llewelly Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:54 AM

OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death | January 28, 2011 7:41 AM:

I feel like save points are a relic and serve little purpose in modern games.

From an implementation standpoint, they were invented in order to save space in expensive cartridge memory*. They reduce the player's position data to nothing more than a number identifying the save point; if there are 256 save points, it's an eight bit number, and takes up only 1 byte. They eliminate entirely the need to store player velocity, orientation, angular momentum, or any of that garbage. When consoles shifted away from cartridges to discs and memory cards, save points continued to be important because memory card memory was no cheaper than cart memory. (But since it was not being used to store the game, there was more of it available for save games.) But then came consoles with integrated hard drives and cheap memory sticks. Now there is tons of space for save games. But there are still game designers who like save points. I call them old fogeys.

*For this comment, I will causally disregard the differences between RAM, ROM, EEPROM, SDRAM, etc.

#218

Posted by: AJ Milne OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:57 AM

Hate takes an amazing amount of energy to create and to maintain.

But see, that's just why exercise and proper diet are so important*.

... Also: yes, I know it takes more muscles to frown. That's precisely why my face is so buff.

(*/And usually, yes, I kinda hate people who say stuff like that, come to think of it. Always in those fucking chipper little gym bunny voices, too. Seriously, they've no idea how they undercut their case... as what's the incentive in living longer if all it means is a longer stay with people like them?)

#219

Posted by: Psych-Oh Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:57 AM

I get ticked off at states that don't want to adopt the "Common Core Standards" for education. Texas being the biggest one that comes to mind. PZs Texas post is gnawing at me. Most of the states seem to agree that our students should have the same minimal standards regardless of where they live. It would be one thing if Texas' standards were higher than everyone elses, but that is evidently not the case.

#220

Posted by: Markita Lynda, Death's Little Sister Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:58 AM

Hi! My answer to "you must hate God, etc." is "How much energy do you spend hating the Tooth Fairy?"

I hate lies, lying, and liars.

The trouble with shooting "feral" cats is that as soon as your cat crosses the street or goes into someone else's yard, it's "feral" to somebody. I've read that English common law did not allow cats to be kept tied up because that would interfere with their necessary function of keeping down rats and mice.

#221

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:59 AM

I hate this whole fucking place. I hate that apparently I'm a horrible cowardly person because I share my opinions. I hate people who think they're moral paragons bitching at me about how nasty I am. I hate people who are smug assholes who have never met me declaring my life is worth a bucket of piss. I hate how I apparently can't even succeed at trying to be nice to people. I hate that Thad got under my skin and I hate that fucking amoral rape apologizing bastard!

Anyone else notice he shows up to talk the most on the threads that bring up rape? HMmmmmmmmmmm he seems to have a real notion of having to go there and correct us all on points we never made and remind us how horrible cowards we are for saying that we don't like bad things. I guess the only way to be a real moral couragous person is to defend the undefensable...cause that's hard. FUCK. *degrade into angrish*

#222

Posted by: MinnieTheFinn Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:19 AM

Ing:

no, you're a sane person for speaking up your mind.

If someone sees you as being nasty, they do not see the frustration behind it. They truly are smug (etc.), they only focus on niceness instead of the subject. Been there, done that, got numerous t-shirts.

Please do not let ignorant bastards and trolls get under your skin,

love,

yours,

"Frozen in The North"

#223

Posted by: Rey Fox, Death of the Party Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:23 AM

At any rate, ALL of you are back in my killfile.

That should be a T-shirt. Even though probably only we would understand it.

Asshole.

---

Also, I hate people who spell "lose" with two "o"s.

I hate people who treat "hate" like it's some untouchable word to only be invoked in dire circumstances. I see no problem with using the same word to describe my feelings towards Top 40 radio, Glenn Beck, religion, and when I forget to run the dishwasher. "Dislike" is far too polite, and "loathe" is for when I want to sound like Sideshow Bob.

#225

Posted by: Owl700 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:25 AM

I hate that Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes may have missed my earlier post and doesn't know he could be using Gimp for free instead of wasting a thousand bucks on Photoshop!
Cheers to all

#226

Posted by: oodiesmith Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:25 AM

I'M MADDER THAN HELL, AND I'M NOT GONNA TAKE IT ANYMORE!

#227

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:28 AM

@Owl7000

Someone told me you need to be somewhat programing savvy to really make Gimp worthwhile. Also Photoshop's real draw is the bridging with Illustrator and Indesign.

#228

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:33 AM

Rey:

Thanks.

Screw it.

#229

Posted by: Hurin Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:33 AM

I find it mildly ironic that a number of people are expressing hate for winter in a thread occupied (is that the right word?) by a black metal band. All those bands are obsessed with COOOOOLD!!!! AHHHHH!!!

I like winter. I hate winters that are consumed by my literature seminar, and teaching organic chemistry to pre-nursing students who hate chemistry and don't want to understand it. That would be this winter. This will be another year when I don't ski or do anything fun until the snow melts. Boo.

#230

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:33 AM

I hate haters.

#231

Posted by: Owl700 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:34 AM

@Ing I'm not really savvy and have been able to produce some really cool effects. I haven't checked out Illustrator or Indesign, just a newbie.I'm just cheap, and have found some good programs for free.

#232

Posted by: Benjamin "insert clever nickname here" Geiger Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:34 AM

Ing:

You should enroll in a single college course, and get the academic pricing for Photoshop, you jackwagon.

#233

Posted by: MudPuddles Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:34 AM

I love boobs.

Oh sorry wrong thread.

#234

Posted by: MinnieTheFinn Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:35 AM

Having my livelihood depend on InDesign & Illustrator, I also testify that PhotoShop is the only option in my situation, besides being totally cool.

I've heard good things about Gimp, but apparently it only takes you so far.

#235

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:42 AM

I hate that a troll got under Ing's skin. Although I hate Ing, I like reading his posts (and his torpedoes).

I hate that Dania called me evil. Right back atcha, sister! ;)

I hate Kanye West's latest album. Fuck it, I hate 808's & Heartbreak, too. I hate autotune and wish that it would die. I hate the I can't download Florence + the Machine's Heavy In Your Arms from iTunes w/out downloading the whole stupid Twilight soundtrack. I hate that there's a Jeep commercial with a Johnny Cash song. I also hate that there's a Cadillac commercial with a Massive Attack song. I hate every NIN album after The Fragile.

#236

Posted by: llewelly Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:43 AM

I hate people who think it is acceptable to pay other people to tell lies.

#237

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:46 AM

I hate that a troll got under Ing's skin. Although I hate Ing, I like reading his posts (and his torpedoes).

:(

Is there a sad thread?

You should enroll in a single college course, and get the academic pricing for Photoshop, you jackwagon.

Oh...right...I am in a class....>->

#238

Posted by: MinnieTheFinn Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:50 AM

On that note, I HATE when other people can pay less for professional software only because they're enrolled in college =)

(I wouldn't mind, come to think of it. Have to check what's available at the open Uni at the moment.)

#239

Posted by: David Marjanović Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:53 AM

As soon as I saw the thread was split, I thought "fuck, now there'll be TWICE the usual traffic, and I'm supposed to work here".

I was right.

POOPYHEAD!!!!!

#240

Posted by: Benjamin "insert clever nickname here" Geiger Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:54 AM

The computer store at my alma mater has Photoshop Extended CS5 for $169. Those bastards.

#241

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:55 AM

I hate that people hate me and I don't know why :(

#242

Posted by: Lynna, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:57 AM

I mildly dislike Dave Matthews.

I hate the fact that I can't get a good hate going this morning.

#243

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:00 AM

I hate it when kitteh falls asleep on my full bladder, and I have to wake him up.

#244

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:00 AM

Ing, hopefully this works.

I'm guessing you got the joke ages ago, I'm mostly linking now cuz it's a classic.

#245

Posted by: MinnieTheFinn Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:01 AM

David Marjanović @239:

No, you just have to move to the other side. It's all right there ;) (I promise we won't try to eat your braaaaaaaains)

#246

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:06 AM

(I don't really hate Ing, but I do hate that he thinks that I hate him.)

I hate that I declared that I would hang out in the Love Thread and then spent all of my time here.

#247

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:09 AM

I really feel uncomfortable with someone writing that they hate me because I do not hate correctly, or in the right way, or the way with which they would agree.

#248

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:11 AM

@ODS

I hate that the parameters of the hate thread make conversation hateified and hatedifficult.

Also stink bugs. They smell like teddybear pee!

#249

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:11 AM

You know what? I hate that trying to refute the entire notion of some Hollywood Gold Standard of Beauty™ makes me "part of the problem".

#250

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:12 AM

@Ourdeadselves

I hate that I just destroyed your day

#251

Posted by: beatrice Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:12 AM

I'll have a go too:

I hate that in conversation with my father every word that comes out of my mouth has great potential of causing a dramatic rage in which he may or may not accuse me of trying to kill him (he's got a weak heart) or at least a minor temper tantrum.
I also hate how afterward, I rarely understand what I said that was so wrong. I hate how that makes me think that maybe I am evil, or at least completely oblivious to normal human interaction.

#252

Posted by: MinnieTheFinn Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:19 AM

beatrice:

I hate the fact that you have a difficult relationship with your father. I SO have the t-shirt, and I have difficulties coping with the whole thing even at my age.

Parents can be poisonous. But it takes an awful lot of effort to move outside the box.

#253

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:24 AM

I hate that preacher spondee mentioned in #162.

I hate that Facebook went from a place for college students and professionals to ANOTHER DAMNED VERSION OF MYSPACE!! You have Friendster AND MySpace, go bother people on there and LEAVE US ALONE! Facebook was our kingdom, our oasis away from all those other social sites, and now it's just another bloody mess of idiocy! Well it's always been I guess, but it was OUR bloody mess of idiocy - we had enough going on without other people AND their kids coming in!!

I hate that people will read too much into one damned line from the Book of the Dead and make it sound like yet another doomsday prophecy. What, do you people have just such empty lives that scaring everyone else gets you happy? The ancients were HUMAN, you ignoble twerps, and they made mistakes just like we do, how do you fucking know they were actually on target about the world ending in 2012?? When that year comes and goes without an apocalypse happening, I will laugh!

I hate that any possible apocalypse will more likely come from US than from aliens or some Planet X. Don't you fuckers understand? We're the destroyers, not some fabled celestial body! We'll all be dead because too many of you get off on the idea of nuking everything that moves because OMG, what if it doesn't support your own worldview? If we survive without starting a nuclear war/apocalypse, I'll be more than happy to campaign for a Star Trek-like Federation! Because apparently that's the only way you fucking idiots will even remember that hey, the universe does NOT revolve around you!

OK, enough for now, going to the other place.

#254

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:26 AM

I feel like save points are a relic and serve little purpose in modern games. Let's face it, everything worth playing on this current generation of consoles
Castlevania and Etrian Odyssey immediately spring to mind. Disgaea doesn't allow mid battle saves (Given its nature, this is fundamentally identical to requiring a save point).

In fact, nearly every Atlus title doesn't allow save points, and nearly all of them are excellent games worthy of the costs in time and filthy lucre. I'm not sure what you hate about Save Points, so I'm not sure whether to add Roguelikes, but I will cheat and say IWBTG and La Mulana do so as well.

What I absolutely love about them is that it, to some extent, enforces the notion of difficulty. Not generally perfectly (My feelings are mixed on saves before boss fights, for this reason), but it makes losing, well, losing, not a 2 second trip back to what you were doing. This is almost critical in games with a large map and exploration as a major aspect, like La Mulana and Castlevania. The former, in particular, used save points to amazing effect, from a design perspective, but I'm rambling as it is, so I'll withhold from saying more.

That said, even with save points, I have always supported 'suspend' saves of any variety, in every game, and almost without hesitation. Sometimes life demands you get up and do something now, and a suspend save allows that without compromising difficulty, because it deletes the file on reloading. Portable games in particular, when they lack them, make me very cross. And that's what I meant by "Possibly roguelikes", since they more or less by definition have them.

Of course, from the second hand of some of the games you've listed that I haven't gotten to play, I'm given to understand they'd practically work better as visual novels, so there's really nothing lost by making them save point-less, also.

#255

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:30 AM

I hate getting old gen video games I wanted to lpay but never did...only to find I lack a memory card that I can use

#256

Posted by: MinnieTheFinn Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:30 AM

Facebook was our kingdom, our oasis away from all those other social sites, and now it's just another bloody mess of idiocy!

I used to feel that way about irc, waaaay back when.

After all, it was a Finnish invention =)

#257

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:30 AM

Oh no wait one more:

I HATE those students that went crying to the higher-ups and got zeuss in trouble! Buncha wimps, why are you not hiding in a bible college? Not everyone thinks your religion is the bee's knees, and rightly so. Grow up! Gee I wonder why anyone in that class who wasn't Christian didn't point the finger? Could it be because they are there to learn, not get their beliefs reinforced at every turn?! People like you will be the downfall of humanity!

#258

Posted by: beatrice Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:33 AM

MinnieTheFinn,

Thanks.
I hope that in about a year, if not sooner, I'll have a chance to move out.
I'm sure we would get along better if we saw each other only once a week.

#259

Posted by: Lynna, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:39 AM

Republicans have been telling us how much they love the American people, and how much they want to create new jobs for Americans.

That's what they say. What they do is hate, hate, hate. They still hate gays. Boehner has made it a priority to ban gay marriage in Washington D.C.

Republicans hate public education. Senator Buttars is trying to gut public education in Utah. Boehner is trying to gut public education in Washington D.C. by replacing public schools with vouchers for private schools. His personal favorite category is Catholic schools.

Republicans hate, hate, hate public television and National Public Radio. They want to make big budget cuts, and they keep putting the not-even-a-drop-in-the-bucket NPR at the top of their list.

Even the military wants to cut its own budget, but Republicans are having none of that. Nope. Cut funding for NPR, but keep defense funding intact.

Republicans hate women's rights, especially women's rights to control their own reproductive lives. There are already all kinds of laws banning federal spending for abortion, even for poor women. But new anti-abortion laws are the Republican priority.

Not jobs.

Rachel Maddow covered some of this culture war (watch what Republicans actually do, not what they say):
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#41304066

#260

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:44 AM

Rutee,
Did the latest Castlevania have save points? I played most of it before giving up (fucking puzzles. Hideo Kojima can bite my shiny metal ass) and I seem to recall check points being used, which bothers me a whole hell of a lot less than having to run around looking for a specific place to stop and save. (A lot of games that I've been playing lately use a combination of autosaves and allowing you to save in any non-battle situation. I like this method.)

Ing,
God damn it! I hate TV Tropes!

#261

Posted by: KG Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:52 AM

I hate anyone who put's apostrophe's in before an "s" when they are not needed. Well, for about 5 minutes, anyway. Also, anyone who says "I could care less" when they mean "I couldn't care less." For about 10 minutes. Oh, and anyone who uses "tenants" when they mean "tenets". For about 15 years :-p

I also hate airports. Especially Charles de Gaulle - what a crappy excuse for a place to wait for a means of getting away from it!

#262

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:53 AM

Odi et amo. Quare id faciam, fortasse requiris. Nescio, we'd fieri sentio et excrucior.

#263

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:07 PM

Did the latest Castlevania have save points? I played most of it before giving up (fucking puzzles. Hideo Kojima can bite my shiny metal ass) and I seem to recall check points being used, which bothers me a whole hell of a lot less than having to run around looking for a specific place to stop and save. (A lot of games that I've been playing lately use a combination of autosaves and allowing you to save in any non-battle situation. I like this method.)
I didn't play Kojima's. I have been playing through Portrait of Ruin and Order of Ecclesia, and they quite emphatically have Savepoints, though. But it sounds like you're not complaining about the difficulty save points add (Which they don't universally add, by any means), just the inability to not put down the controller without one, on which we agree in full.
#264

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:09 PM

Fucking Skitt's Law. In spirit, if not technically. I was trying to show off the only Latin I remember, and fucking autocorrect on my phone decided that the Latin word 'sed' should be 'we'd'.

I hate that my workplace doesn't let me make comments on Pharyngula. I hate that I have to use my fucking phone, with its fucking shitty autocorrect, to make comments instead. I don't have a pianist's fingers, for Christ's sake!

#265

Posted by: Pacal Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:11 PM

I HATE Seinfeld. Having been tortured during the shows run by friends who told me "Its really good", and "give it another chance", and in the years since its cancelation given it even more chances; I can only conclude I HATE the program.

I also HATE Family Matters. Why? One word, Urkel.

#266

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:16 PM

We're totally on the same page, Rutee. I really liked both Portrait of Ruin and Order of Ecclesia and I will agree that save points work well in a mapped out world. As far a Lords of Shadow goes... eh, you're not missing much by not playing it. The best 3D Castlevania was Curse of Darkness, hands down (even though nothing will trump Symphony of the Night. That is one of my favorite games ever).

Keeping with the theme of this thread, I hate you for agreeing with me.

I also hate it when I have no idea what MrFire is talking about. I also hate the fact that I didn't steal GirlFire when I had the chance.

#267

Posted by: Rey Fox, Death of the Party Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:26 PM

Hate: It's all fun and games until somebody gets hurt.

What I should have said in #223 was that I don't agree with the idea that "hate" is a taboo of sorts. The sort of hate that Ogvorbis was talking about is a special case, one that takes maintaining. It could be another failure of the English language that the word "hate" has come to refer to toxic relations between people as well as everyday annoyance.

So I apologize to Ogvorbis for my poorly thought-out words. I don't really hate anyone here.

Except maybe that one guy. He knows who he is.

#268

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:27 PM

I hate people who spell "lose" with two "o"s.

Hate the sin, not the sinner.

I hate it when people ignore the difference between "I will not respond" and "I will not read or think about anything you say".

I hate it when people will not respect a simple request like "please fuck off."

I hate it that when I finally resort to the killfile in an attempt to escape the hateful shit mentioned above, Morales sees fit to call me a "wuss".

I hate smug condescension more than almost anything else.

And I hate it when people willfully redefine wrods (e.g. 'condescension') just for the sake of a smug tu quoque.

I hate it when self-centered planet-killing jerks use internal combustion technology to blast the snow out of their private driveway and into the public street, where my car might perhaps be parked.

I hate Republicans and I hate a lot of Democrats only a little bit less.

I hate my job and many other aspects of my current and recent life.

that about covers it at the moment.

Oh, and Dave Matthews. Also the Dallas Cowboys. Mushrooms, of course, goes without saying, and I also hate celery. And mayonnaise.

done now.

#269

Posted by: windy Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:30 PM

From the lovey dovey thread #186:

"Swedish cartoon sex-ed film reported to police over teen sex scenes"

http://www.thelocal.se/31656/20110126/

If a Swedish manga translator can be convicted of child pornography for possessing images of underage people having sex, it seems only fair not to exempt public service programming.

#270

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:31 PM

spondee #162: Man, I hate that pastor too. What a dickwad. Sorry about your friend.

I almost wish that dickhead Han supremacist would show up in here. He was a hatefully obtuse little fuckstick, what?

I hate Canadians who think that being better than America is enough.

I hate anyone who thinks being better than the Taliban / North Korea / Saudi Arabia / Somalia is enough.

MrFire #202: don't you fucking hate it when the link doesn't work?

One wonders how someone whose job it is to study people and their culture can possibly thrive when they seem unwilling to listen to people and constantly projects his own assumptions and thoughts onto them.

QFMFT

Also, screaming, whining butthurt entitled whiteboy shitheads who can't get their bacon and wail Sharia Law!!! drowning out legitimate criticisms of Islam, Islamicism and clerical fascism in general can go and get fucked, sideways, with the e. coli infested mast of a rotting refugee boat. And stop wearing the Australian flag over you like a goddamn beachtowel you buffoons, have some goddamn respect. Also, fuck off with misappropriating all our national symbols - hell even the word "Australian" - to mean "ignorant, hair-trigger violent, binge-drinking xenophobic sexist lout - AND PROUD"

I hate my borderline personality disorder ex girlfriend and the damage she's done to me and my social circle. Like, a lot. I hate that I'm still recovering from it. I hate that I can't go out ~anywhere~ or show my head above the ramparts online without twitching every time someone looks at me, in case they're one of the Believers in her poor-widdle-me look what the bad man did schtick. I hate that she broke me so hard I ended up suicidal. I hate that she twisted and used the best in me, my compassion, against me, made me doubt myself, my thoughts, my feelings, my mind and my reality. I hate that I still have panic attacks when I'm at home at night in case she breaks into my house and assaults me again. I hate that she went after my best friend, seduced her, and broke her heart. I hate that she tried to turn us against each other. [I love how hard she failed and shot herself in the foot by trying]. I hate that she went after ~all~ my friends. I hate that some I thought were good friends bought into the RDF. I hate that I am still having trouble letting anyone close to me. I hate that complete strangers still turn up on my blog to ALL-CAPS random abuse at me. I hate how much she lied to me. I hate how much she lied ~about~ me. I hate that I still miss her. I hate that she'll probably never get the help she needs. I hate that I know there's still a terrified gentle child lost inside that maelstrom. I hate myself for not getting out of it as fast as I could.

Ing #221: Watch it with those Snark Torpedos - you'll put someone's eye out with those things.

I goddamn motherfucking hate watching the Dunning-Kruger effect in action. I fucking *hate* how much stupid people hate being reminded of how god.damn.will.you.just.shut.up.and.preferably.stop.breathing.kthx. stupid they actually are by collisions with reality and the unstupid.

I hate that one of my oldest friends won't vaccinate his kids because of some moronic stoner Psych101 canard about the unknowability of all things.

#271

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:43 PM

I hate it when people are overall jackasses and then paint themselves as victims somehow.

I hate Drbunsen for equating Psych101 with Phil101. Seriously, cut that shit out.

I hate that Psych101 so often trains non-scientific practitioners.

Also, screaming, whining butthurt entitled whiteboy shitheads who can't get their bacon and wail Sharia Law!!! drowning out legitimate criticisms of Islam, Islamicism and clerical fascism in general can go and get fucked, sideways, with the e. coli infested mast of a rotting refugee boat. And stop wearing the Australian flag over you like a goddamn beachtowel you buffoons, have some goddamn respect. Also, fuck off with misappropriating all our national symbols - hell even the word "Australian" - to mean "ignorant, hair-trigger violent, binge-drinking xenophobic sexist lout - AND PROUD"
I hate those buffoons too.
#272

Posted by: Gadfly47 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:48 PM

#17 Danno, I've only read "Bully for Brontosaurus" and a little bit of "The Panda's Thumb." I thoroughly enjoyed "Bully" and recommend it.

#273

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 12:50 PM

drbunsen: Throw those jerks into that firing range, please. I think this Gatling could use a test run. ESPECIALLY if any of them saw was what happening, and yet stood by and did nothing to help. You can throw your ex into the lineup if you like.

#274

Posted by: Illuminata Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:04 PM

You know how it's fairly easy to tell when a child is fake-crying, pretending to be hurt, etc? I work with a 30 YEAR OLD WOMAN who behaves like this on a near daily basis. Put something on her desk, she throws a tantrum. A stiff breeze makes this lunatic cry. In fact, she cries whenever she doesn't get her way, but that magicially disappears once she does get her way. I can honestly say at this point, she disgusts me and I'm looking for a new job just to get the fuck away from her unhinged ass.

*phew* I feel better.

#275

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:10 PM

I hate ketchup, heroin addiction, and Joe Arpaio.

Although I hate Ing, I like reading his posts (and his torpedoes).
I hate that I'm still not sure if Ing is a man or a woman.

I don't have a pianist's fingers, for Christ's sake!
I hate that you don't have a pianist's fingers, MrFire, because that does not fit into my fantasiespicture of you.

#276

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Haberdasher Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:16 PM

Me @#197

and I hate that as a throughly "out" atheist I end up as the fucking chair of the fucking protest commitee!


Miss M says I should retract this. She's pissed off!
(grovel)I don't 'hate' being the chair of the protest commitee, I'm flattered that the members have so honoured me. They're not a 'fucking protest commitee'
They're a group of angry and troubled believers who are experiencing real pain as they see their Church betraying their trust.
What I was trying to say is that I hate the necessity for the commitee in the first place. (/grovel)
I think she's forgiven me. Course the fact thet the boiler is back on line might help.

#277

Posted by: MinnieTheFinn Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:17 PM

Illuminata:

dis she go to a Steiner school by any chance?

#278

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:25 PM

OK, not so much hate as annoyance: Now that Mom knows I occasionally chat with this guy who tutors kids at school, the one she thinks is SO sweet, she tells me, "Flirt a little." Jesus fuck, Mom, if I can't tell you the nature of my current relationship, I don't think I could explain it to him!

Don't get me wrong, he seems like a nice fellow (the kindergarten teacher thinks he's a tad creepy, and I can see why she might think so, but he isn't), but damn. It doesn't help that he's always flirting with the female students who come in to help the teachers. I think he's looking for something serious, and one-on-one, which I'm not looking for right now. Fuck flirting ,I'll eb nice, but flirting is out!

#279

Posted by: Shala Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:26 PM

on saves:

Fire Emblem has a wonderfully brutal way of saving your game where it saves after every action you do. Lose a unit? You won't be able to just reset and get him back, you have to start the chapter over.

also I love Order of Ecclesia, but to stick with the hate thread, I fucking hate Thaddeus.

#280

Posted by: blf Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:30 PM

Hating not sure being what to hate.

#281

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:38 PM

Jules,
I'm about 90% sure that Ing is a dude (based on the fact that I haven't been corrected yet). If I am totally wrong, then I hate that I have made a total ass of myself.

Shala,
Is Thad still kicking around the Bachmann thread? I haven't had the chance to check (at work, using my phone, etc etc). There are few people here that I actively hate, but Thad is getting there. (I pity most of the trolls we get here rather than hate them, which is worse, IMHO.)

#282

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:47 PM

Rey Fox:

Sorry I misunderstood and over reacted. My bad.

#283

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:49 PM

:Grumbles a G'morning: I'm not overly thrilled at being barely able to move today. Ceiling is still leaking. Bleargh.

#284

Posted by: Shala Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:49 PM

Yup, he's there. He not only makes walls of text with every one of his posts, but they don't make any sense and he is a rape apologist. A monster donning a human disguise.

#285

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 1:55 PM

I figured the Raccoon City PD used typewriters 'cos they blew their budget wad on the S.T.A.R.S. team.

Another thing I wonder is why an American police force would have an M79 grenade launcher as a standard equipment.

Video can be so bizzar.

#286

Posted by: cicely, Eccentric Firefly Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:00 PM

I hate you very much for that. *hugs Cicely in pure loathing*

Ha! The loathing in your hug can not hope to touch the intensity of the animosity I hold for your leaky roof and massive bruising! I hate them with the heat of a thousand burning tornados.

I hate them more than I hate horses.

(Wait...this isn't the COMPETITIVENESS Thread....)
-
drbunsen, I hate your situation.

Also, before you fuck Thad-lad with a telegraph pole, you should first insert it (carefully!) into a dead porcupine, and deploy, bristly end first. Vigorously. Then ask him whether this meets his criteria for 'rape'.
-
ibyea, I join you in hating that lawyer. Punch-line: "A good start."
-
spondee: :( :( :(
-

Tell that to Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde.

Yes. Do.
-

#287

Posted by: Shala Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:01 PM

Another thing I wonder is why an American police force would have an M79 grenade launcher as a standard equipment.

those are probably the least serious offenses to logic that Resident Evil makes over the course of the series.

We are talking about the series where there was a Chinese Death Satellite, after all, which was never mentioned again.

#288

Posted by: cicely, Eccentric Firefly Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:09 PM

beatrice, I hate that your father and my mother appear to have been hatched from the same clutch.
-

#289

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:12 PM

Shala and GHP,
And, you know, zombies.

Once I willingly suspend disbelief, anything goes.

Caine,
I hate that your day is already shitty. I hate that you're in pain. I hate that I'm still in pain, too, and I'm scared that I might have done real damage to my shoulder.

#290

Posted by: cicely, Eccentric Firefly Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:16 PM

blf:

Hating not sure being what to hate.

What, are all the peas gone?
-


#291

Posted by: blf Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:18 PM

What, are all the peas gone?

Good point. I hate you. You had a good point. Whaaaaaa! I HATE you all!!!1! I'm going away and you'll NEVAR SEE ME Again1111!!

#292

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:22 PM

ODS:

I'm scared that I might have done real damage to my shoulder.

Shit. Better go see the hated doctor, just in case. Shoulder injuries suck.

Mister emailed 5 times last night with "if you need to go to the hospital..." My regular appt. with my neurologist is coming up soon, he's going to be soooo impressed with me.

#293

Posted by: Feynmaniac, Chimerical Toad Superhero Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:23 PM

I hate this:

One of psychology’s most respected journals has agreed to publish a paper presenting what its author describes as strong evidence for extrasensory perception, the ability to sense future events.
A software program randomly posted a picture behind one curtain or the other — but only after the participant made a choice. Still, the participants beat chance, by 53 percent to 50 percent, at least when the photos being posted were erotic ones. They did not do better than chance on negative or neutral photos.

“What I showed was that unselected subjects could sense the erotic photos,” Dr. Bem said, “but my guess is that if you use more talented people, who are better at this, they could find any of the photos.”

#294

Posted by: MinnieTheFinn Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:26 PM

I hate people having strong opinions about things they really don't have a feckin' clue about, yet they think that their opinions are immensely important.

Just saying, like. After having a conversation with someone with really weird and unrealistic notions about what the society should be about.

And I also hate that I managed to create sentences that end with 'about'. Pardon my lack of grammar.

#295

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:39 PM

(Uh... I'm not sure in which subThread to post this but, well, there's certainly not love involved and it seems to me this guy doesn't like us very much. Pity, that.)

So, John A. Davison is trolling... FSTDT:

The human being who must hide his identity is a blight upon the face of civilized intercourse. This blog is nothing but therapy for intellectual lightweights whose only joy is desecration of a known adversary. Don't forget to attack John A. Davison with the same zeal you denigrate John Benneth. I thrive on insults from cowards such as those found in this cesspool, indistinguishable from Pharyngula, After the Bar Closes and Panda's Thumb, "groupthink" ghettos all.

Seems appropriate to me. This kind of stuff definitely belongs there.

/Heh. "civilized intercourse."

#296

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:42 PM

I'm going stir-crazy here!

I hate not being able to go for a run. I hate that the only way to even do so means to go out into the street. I hate that I may have to do just that tomorrow.

I hate that the last installment of the Syberia series is not yet out. I hate that I don't have some skill which I can use to make a little money so I don't have to worry about losing pay.

#297

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:45 PM

John A. Davidson can go fuck a decaying porcupine, preferably with a mini-nuke stuck up his ass so that he doesn't know if he's coming or going.

#298

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:45 PM

civilized intercourse

Been to Intercourse. Seemed civilized to me. And they have a couple of really good and very traditional butcher shops with excellent scrapple.

Is scrapple considered civilized? I hate not knowing.

#299

Posted by: blf Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:46 PM

I'm going stir-crazy here!

You're sitting in a hot oil in a hot wok, whilst a hot chef pushes you around with a stick?

#300

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:47 PM

We are talking about the series where there was a Chinese Death Satellite, after all, which was never mentioned again.

To be fair, Dead Aim is a spin-off. Now what I didn't like was in Code: Veronica where Alexia said without the queen ant the other ants would perish. Doesn't she realize without the worker ants the queen ant would also perish?

#301

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:47 PM

Hm. I didn't think my comment would go through at first. I thought "John A. Davison" would trigger moderation and wanted to test it first without using the HTML tags trick. But it was posted just fine.

Hm. I wonder, does Caledonia still trigger moderation?

#302

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:49 PM

Kill the head and the body will die.

Kill the body and you can keep the head alive in a vat.

#303

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:52 PM

Hm. I wonder, does Caledonia still trigger moderation?

*headdesk*

Of course it doesn't, it's not Caledonia. It's Caledonian.

(Answer after test: Yes, it does)

#304

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:53 PM

I hate it when people ignore the difference between "I will not respond" and "I will not read or think about anything you say".

Doesn't matter which you mean by it, responding with a form letter is condescending. It is a lot less condescending to simply not respond.

I hate it when people will not respect a simple request like "please fuck off."

Generally, if you say something stupid in public, people will respond.

Specifically, it is astonishingly stupid for you to expect that I will not respond when you continue talking about me, like right now.

I hate it that when I finally resort to the killfile in an attempt to escape the hateful shit mentioned above, Morales sees fit to call me a "wuss".

I hate that too. You aren't obliged to read what anyone says, you aren't obliged to respond, and the killfile can make this easier.

And I hate it when people willfully redefine wrods (e.g. 'condescension') just for the sake of a smug tu quoque.

Your form letter is condescending: "to behave as if one is conscious of descending from a superior position, rank, or dignity."

It is as if to say "not only are you not worth my time, I am going to make sure you understand you are not worth my time."

I'm not going to assert that I'm not being smug about this. But I am a little surprised that you can't recognize your own behavior. Something about intent, I'll bet.

#305

Posted by: blf Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:55 PM

I fecking hate it when I fecking tpyo, like the fecking extra fecking fecked a in fecking @299.

And feck. Also a fecking few fecked pffffts: Pffft. Pffffft! And Pffft!

#306

Posted by: Lynna, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 2:56 PM

Mormons hate gays mo' better than anyone else hates gays.

...State Rep. Christensen wants to pass legislation that could prevent LGBT people from drafting wills with their life partners. Amazing that he not only wants to keep same-sex couples apart in real life -- Rep. Christensen was one of the legislators behind Utah's constitutional amendment barring gay marriage -- he now wants to keep same-sex couples apart in death, too. ...
     "Christensen’s bill would leave surviving same-sex partners at the mercy of their deceased partner’s family," Ethington notes. Meaning that instead of turning to a person's same-sex partner as next of kin, or recognizing the ability of same-sex couples in Utah to form contracts together, all gay people would be treated as single individuals when it comes to contracts, whether they've been partnered for 10 years or 60 years. ...
     What's more, Rep. Christensen already introduced this bill in 2006 -- literally using the same language from back then in his 2011 bill. It was narrowly defeated then. It should be overwhelmingly defeated now.
     Send the Utah legislature a note that Rep. Christensen's bill, HB 182, should be nixed. Same-sex marriage might be far off in Utah. But for those who are even diehard opponents of marriage equality, what pleasure could they get out of keeping same-sex couples from forming legal contracts like wills together? It's a cruel bill, no matter where one's politics on the issue of same-sex marriage stand....
Source.

If there's no will that allows a same-sex partner to inherit, then the True Believing Mormon family of the deceased can inherit, and can give more to the church.

Just speculating. But I do know that the church goes after estates. They want that money.

Another speculation: maybe the mormons think that allowing same-sex partners to inherit is just one more way to allow support for the "gay lifestyle," and we can't have that kind of thing going on.

I doubt the bill will be passed, but even the idea that someone would propose it (more than once) makes me want to get my hate on for the writers of the bill.

#307

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:10 PM

Thad is seriously getting on my nerves, because he *could* be a very interesting addition to our discussions. I appreciated some of his posts and his book list, but the sensitivity to being called names sort of outweighs his contributions. Seriously, if you don't want to be called names, don't play in Pharyngula's traffic. And his insistence that everyone has to be assigned a gender for purposes of responding to them is ridiculous.

#308

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:19 PM

Celery, phones, snow - goes without saying.

I hate Top Chef.

Because I don't know what happened on Wednesday. They had ads* the whole week/day like it was going to be on, and then the usual marathon run-up. I had Bravo on, probably on mute but I'm sure I checked. Where was it? I hate that I questioned what day it had been and feared that I had seen it and somehow blocked it out for some reason. I hate that I still don't know.

I also hate it because they keep fucking cutting and injuring themselves. I hate that it makes it unrelaxing to watch. Professional chefs should have acquired safe knife techniques. They showed one of them slicing something in his palm. Don't slice things in your palm, lackwits. I hate that they keep bragging about how tough they are because they sucked it up and kept working after they chopped off their nail. Well, you shouldn't be chopping off your nails to begin with, "all stars."

But I loved #62.

*Hate when people spell it "adds."

#309

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:23 PM

I hate Drbunsen for equating Psych101 with Phil101. Seriously, cut that shit out.
My bad. I saw that slip-up juuuust after hitting Submit. But it warms the deep, vengeful cockles of my black, corroded heart that you knew which group of drooling fucktards I meant anyway.
I hate it when people are overall jackasses and then paint themselves as victims somehow.

You talking to me, Harpy of Dooooooom? Cause I have this massively overdeveloped twitch reflex and Imma assume half the shit in this thread is directed at me, so I just wanna be clear.

You know what else makes me twitch? Goddamn Celine Squirrel-Torturing Dion. Just SHUT UP already - sheeeesh. If I wanted to hear fingernails on a blackboard I'd go into teaching.

You can throw your ex into the lineup if you like.

Nah, the worst I can wish on her is her life.

/Heh. "civilized intercourse."

A blight on the face of it, no less :)

Feynmaniac #293; I hated that before you hated that. Biter.

Even if that study is robust in and of itself, it'll be cherry-picked to stand side by side with the other half-dozen studies that show significance, while the umptybajillion other studies that show no significance are hastily shuffled under a nearby potplant. You can prove anything if you keep looking long enough and ignore all the negs, and I hate that I can't remember what that fallacy's called right now.

I FFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUcking hate being condescended to. Just FYI and apropos of nothing specific to this thread.

#310

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:26 PM

You're sitting in a hot oil in a hot wok, whilst a hot chef pushes you around with a stick?

Somehow that scenario seems preferable to being snowed-in. Or not.

Anyway, it did remind me of this song.

#311

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:32 PM

maybe the mormons think that allowing same-sex partners to inherit is just one more way to allow support for the "gay lifestyle," and we can't have that kind of thing going on.

Yeah, it'll end up in the hands of all those gay children they're breeding...

Thad is seriously getting on my nerves, because he *could* be a very interesting addition to our discussions
Inorite?
And his insistence that everyone has to be assigned a gender for purposes of responding to them is ridiculous.
... wut

Cite please. Missed that one.

#312

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:33 PM

Ooooooh, hating on Top Chef is something I can get behind.

I fucking hate Macel and his stupid fucking foams. I hate that they brought him back and I had to look at his dumb face and his fucking foams again. I do not hate that he got booted off, though.

Seriously, foams? Who thinks that's cool?

I also hate that fucking Scienceborg randomly makes me sign in after I've tried to submit my comment. I also hate that my phone's browser randomly shuts down.

I really have to pee, but the closest bathroom is miles away. I hate this shit.

#313

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:41 PM

I prefer people not know my gender or ethnicity or the like while on the net. Keeps things interesting. Ir probably doesn't help that on occasion I let other people post under my name :/

I'm clearly a genderless bisexual snark submarine...of death.

but the sensitivity to being called names sort of outweighs his contributions. Seriously, if you don't want to be called names, don't play in Pharyngula's traffic. And his insistence that everyone has to be assigned a gender for purposes of responding to them is ridiculous.

Note that he was only being called names because he refused to actually deal with anyone talking to him instead preferring the debates he was sharing with the imaginary versions of us in his head.

. Still, the participants beat chance, by 53 percent to 50 percent, at least when the photos being posted were erotic ones.

In veeeeeeeeeeeeery small footnote: +/- 10%range of error

#314

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:41 PM

Been to Intercourse. Seemed civilized to me. And they have a couple of really good and very traditional butcher shops with excellent scrapple.

My parents had friends who lived in Paradise, down the road. Sounds beautiful. Quilts!

#315

Posted by: Rey Fox, Death of the Party Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:41 PM

*Hate when people spell it "adds."

Gads, me too. The weekly coupon and advertising pamphlet here in town is called "The Add Sheet". But I thought it was to help me subtract costs!

#316

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:46 PM

I hate to think what's going to happen when these two threads collide


/digs antimatter shelter

#317

Posted by: Benjamin "insert clever nickname here" Geiger Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:48 PM

SC:

I've never been to Intercourse. Besides, Blue Ball sounds more familiar.

#318

Posted by: SallyStrange Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:49 PM

I hate rape apologists like Thaddeus Fuckface and the house Republicans who are proposing that only "forcible" rape (as opposed to consensual rape, right?) be eligible for Medicaid coverage. This will exclude statutory rape (gotta make sure those teenagers have babies!), incest, and date rape, and roofie rape... basically about 80% of rape.

#319

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:49 PM

SC:

Yah. We've looked at the quilts. My wife said, "I can do that!" and went home, got the fabric, and created a queen-sized log cabin. Along with a dozen small quilts and some scenery quilts. She said it was boring and went back to crocheting. The quilts she made were incredible. No patterns, she just did them.

#320

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:51 PM

Ooooooh, hating on Top Chef is something I can get behind.

I hate that you didn't explain what happened on Wednesday.

I fucking hate Macel and his stupid fucking foams. I hate that they brought him back and I had to look at his dumb face and his fucking foams again.

Obligatory: "Why foam? Why now?"

I hate his hair and his terrible "poetry," and I hate that people consider the possibility that he was swigging water and not gin a defense.

#321

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:54 PM

I hate to think what's going to happen when these two threads collide

I think that will be the cynical thread. I've already been there.

#322

Posted by: Jadehawk Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:57 PM

how can anyone hate snow. wtf is wrong with Y'all!?

#323

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 3:58 PM

I prefer people not know my gender or ethnicity or the like while on the net. Keeps things interesting.
I wasn't actually hatin', because I agree that it keeps things interesting.

Ir probably doesn't help that on occasion I let other people post under my name :/
The crush expands plot thickens.

This will exclude statutory rape (gotta make sure those teenagers have babies!), incest, and date rape, and roofie rape... basically about 80% of rape.
I hate the world. That seriously makes me want to go hide in a bathroom stall at work and cry. And then kick some repubdudes in the testicles. Imma go to the bar tonight, I think.

#324

Posted by: Benjamin "insert clever nickname here" Geiger Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:01 PM

Jules:

Go to an airport men's room and you can accomplish both at once.

#325

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:01 PM

SC:

I hate that you didn't explain what happened on Wednesday.

Nothing happened. They had runners all week saying "all new Top Chef on Wednesday, Feb. 2nd". (I mute during ads, but they had the visual runners on screen damn near constantly.)

#326

Posted by: Jadehawk Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:02 PM

hating on the Irish; sort of relevant to Bachmann's idiotic "we were all the same" remarks

#327

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:03 PM

how can anyone hate snow. wtf is wrong with Y'all!?

*glowers*

Take it to the fucking love thread, snow miser.

#328

Posted by: Walton, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:04 PM

Crossposting on both threads, as this is important:

It may be too late, but I received this petition by email about the case of Brenda Namigadde, a Ugandan lesbian who is, apparently, facing deportation from the UK to Uganda tonight.

Given the current heightened state of homophobic feeling in Uganda, it goes without saying that she is very likely to be tortured or killed. There is a petition you can sign: I don't know if it will do any good, but it's worth a try.

#329

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:04 PM

how can anyone hate snow. wtf is wrong with Y'all!?

Snow's cool (ha!). I haven't experienced the stuff in years, but I quite like it. Miss it, even.

#330

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:05 PM

I hate rape apologists like Thaddeus Fuckface and the house Republicans who are proposing that only "forcible" rape (as opposed to consensual rape, right?) be eligible for Medicaid coverage. This will exclude statutory rape (gotta make sure those teenagers have babies!), incest, and date rape, and roofie rape... basically about 80% of rape.

Did you point that out to him? That's a good example of why his points are about weakening the horror of rape and belittling it.


Ironically of course pointing that out means that you are a coward because NO ONE belittles or excuses rape and it's just chest pounding.

#331

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:08 PM

The only person I know of who was able to take some of the horror out of rape was George Carlin. IMO, though, he seemed to do by managing to make the rapist look like a pitiful dunce who's just that desperate to prove he can get some. I could be remembering that whole routine wrong, but that's the impression I got.

#332

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:13 PM

SC,
I haven't seen this week's episode! I usually catch up on the weekend. Wait, we're still talking about Top Chef, right? I hate being confused.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who hates Marcel's stupid fucking hair. Pomade is a privilage, not a right.

I hate everything about Marcel- his attitude, his unappetizing food, his ego, everything. I do love Anthony Bordain, however.

I hate that I just typed out this comment without adding anything to the discussion, but I'm going to submit it anyway.

#333

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:14 PM

Nothing happened. They had runners all week saying "all new Top Chef on Wednesday, Feb. 2nd". (I mute during ads, but they had the visual runners on screen damn near constantly.)

Thank you! I managed to miss any reminders, even while reading the blogs. I don't understand why they didn't have it on this week.

#334

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:15 PM

@331

Ohhh, some people don't like you to talk like that. Ohh, some people like to shut you up for saying those things. You know that. Lots of people. Lots of groups in this country want to tell you how to talk. Tell you what you can't talk about. Well, sometimes they'll say, well you can talk about something but you can't joke about it. Say you can't joke about something because it's not funny. Comedians run into that shit all the time. Like rape. They'll say, "you can't joke about rape. Rape's not funny." I say, "fuck you, I think it's hilarious. How do you like that?" I can prove to you that rape is funny. Picture Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd. See, hey why do you think they call him "Porky," eh? I know what you're going to say. "Elmer was asking for it. Elmer was coming on to Porky. Porky couldn't help himself, he got a hard- on, he got horney, he lost control, he went out of his mind." A lot of men talk like that. A lot of men think that way. They think it's the woman's fault. They like to blame the rape on the woman. Say, "she had it coming, she was wearing a short skirt." These guys think women ought to go to prison for being cock teasers. Don't seem fair to me. Don't seem right, but you can joke about it. I believe you can joke about anything. It all depends on how you construct the joke. What the exaggeration is. What the exaggeration is. Because every joke needs one exaggeration. Every joke needs one thing to be way out of proportion. Give you an example. Did you ever see a news story like this in the paper? Every now and then you run into a story, says, "some guy broke into a house, stole a lot of things, and while he was in there, he raped an 81 year old woman." And I'm thinking to myself, "WHY??? What the fuck kind of a social life does this guy have?" I want to say, "why did you do that?" "Well she was coming on to me. We were dancing and I got horney. Hey, she was asking for it, she had on a tight bathrobe." I'll say, "Jesus Christ, be a little fucking selective next time will you?"

#335

Posted by: skeptifem Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:19 PM

This one mormon lady at my work was complaining about an english class she took in college. It was after Enron and everyone had to write an opinion piece about the American dream, and hers was about how if people were just more honest that everything would work out better. Yeah, really. She was so mad that she got a D, because other negative stuff (things with "the F word and everything) got better grades than hers. Fucking drivel. She couldn't understand why they had to discuss freud's ideas about penis envy in her psychology class, either. Life is supposed to work like hallmark cards and disney movies to people this ignorant.

HATE. I hate obedient, ignorant people. Fuck.

#336

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:20 PM

Thanks, Ing. Yeah, IMO, Carlin pretty much made the guilty party look like a fucking asshole. A stupid one, at that. Which is possibly the only way you could hope to make rape even a little funny.

#337

Posted by: cicely, Eccentric Firefly Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:21 PM

how can anyone hate snow. wtf is wrong with Y'all!?

It's C-O-L-D!!!

I hate being cold.

Easy as that.
-


#338

Posted by: Rey Fox, Death of the Party Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:23 PM

I love snow too, and I'll post it here because it will sow dischord among the antisnowists.

Admittedly, it's a love that has a lot to do with not having to drive much. And if the apartment complexes down the street would do a proper job of shoveling it off their sidewalks, I'd like it more.

When I drove to Illinois last Saturday, I passed by a field that was covered with a completely pristine white layer of snow. I wanted to pull the car over and just run out into it and flop around like a madman.

#339

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:24 PM

@Insomniac

The brilliance of his shtick was using an exaggerated cartoonish example that was so absurd it was funny to make people laugh, and then use that as a spring board to amusingly criticize and attack rape apologists.

Making fun of rape and then attacking it. Genius.

#340

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:24 PM

I do love Anthony Bordain, however.

I agree (though I fear he's a blithertarian). Bourdain's TC blog is great. (This probably belongs on the other thread, although he is a master of snark....)

#341

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:24 PM

When you sign up for a reality show you sort of loose the "we just wnt to be left alone and don't want attention" card.

Ted is a megalomaniac and patriarch of his family. I'm not saying Ted doesn't want the attention. But it doesn't follow that his family does.

#342

Posted by: SallyStrange Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:26 PM

Ing -

No, I haven't mentioned that, but you're right, I should.

#343

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:27 PM

@ Sally

Actually If I were you I'd probably just hole my breath.

@SGBM

My point. I loath Ted even more because he continues to make his pain his family's abuse.

#344

Posted by: CJO Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:38 PM

I hate bad poetry. Some wannabe named kyle graced the Best is Lost thread with this execrable piece of shit:

here's a poem I wrote myself

And here's me, ripping into it


and now, dylan,

Addressing Dylan Thomas is not a good start. The only way it could be worse is if you're not addressing Dylan Thomas. Is this poetry about poetry, or poetry about something that we're meant to care about? And don't fucking start a poem with "and". There was something else?

i rage-wrestle

You what?

with the ambiguous pleasànto-spice of desire.

You "rage-wrestle" with a spice? And what is with all this hyphenating? Use words that we know. A poem builds meaning by evocation, association among familiar words in novel contexts. You're trying to force meaning into these banal pseudo-neologisms and it's not working. And "ambiguous," that's just awful. Adjectives in poetry should be concrete. Don't tell me something is ambiguous, create the ambiguity in my mind if you're interested in ambiguity.

in the one valley

Which fucking valley? Does anything distinguish this valley? Are you trying to establish a sense of place? Make a literary reference? Everything is "the one (X)" so you've told us exactly nothing with those two words. Every single word in a poem needs to do work. This one is full of this kind of filler, leaving the distinct impression that you have absolutely nothing original to say.

hopes, dreams, goals, wishes,

Ugh. "Hopes and dreams"? A hint: if a line of your poetry sounds like it could come out of Oprah's mouth, it's bad. Terrible. Start over. Start your whole life over if possible. You suck.

the flourish of anticipation,

Vague. This evokes no image, no sense of what anticipation is like or why we should care. Weak nouns like "flourish" aren't doing anything for you at all.

the flashing sun-shine of accomplishment

Sunshine is a fine word. You've extended your distracting and pretentious tendency to hyphenate to an actual word! Why is it flashing anyway? Sunshine usually just, you know, shines. Again, "accomplishment" is weak and abstract.

embellish life in looming cloud-awe,

Oooh, spooky, looming cloud-awe. "Life" is so vague, abstract, and general. I can't keep saying it. I must keep saying it. And things aren't embellished "in", they're embellished "with". And "embellish" is a terrible verb here. Put it on the list with "ambiguous." Don't use it.

and sugar it with joy-bliss and hymn-dance,

Vomit. Just horrible.

in the other valley, dylan, desire

Oh, that other valley! I'm sure "dylan" knows all about it, but let the rest of us in on the secret, would you?

can be that rage-lion that fangs the soul,

Which goddamn "rage-lion"? What the fuck is a "rage-lion"? Does it "rage-wrestle"? No, no, it fangs! All is clear! It fangs the soul! "Soul" is going on the list.

that cobra-serpent that shreds the mind,

Cobras are serpents. "Cobra" is doing nothing there. Maybe it should be a pleasànto-cobra. Oh, and have you ever seen a cobra-serpent "shred" anything? Is it a fucking snake or a cheese-grater?

all of one’s tranquillo kidnapped,

What's this "one's" business? The piece is framed as a direct address to this (no doubt by now rolling his eyes) dylan-person. Don't get all standoffish and third-person on us now. I can't even get into kidnapped tranquillo. Just cross it out. Obsessively. Expunge it from the page. Drink heavily and remove it from your memory. Just make it go away.

their former rainbow to dungeon consigned.

Whose former rainbow? The rage-lion's and the cobra-serpent's? You've completely lost the thread, to the extent you ever had it. "Consigned" in the passive is so weak here it's actually trying to disappear. Let it.

thus i am split, dylan, between diminishment of self, bitter resignation to life’s saliva-blare,

"Saliva-blare" might be the best thing here, and it's still bad. But, it's concrete, somewhat jarring in its incongruity, it puts a taste in our mouths, it's... something, anyway. "Diminishment" "resignation": these are vague, and "bitter resignation" could be the tagline for a third-page article in the Wall Street Journal about a disgraced CEO. Try harder.

an embrace of the cold and the impoverished on the one moon,

The moon comes out of nowhere here. Again, the reader has to assume that this dylan-person knows what you're on about, because we sure as fuck don't. A hint: gnomic does not equal profound. "Cold" and "impoverished" is just horrid, really. Adjectival nouns in a poem do nothing, no work at all. They're much worse even than vague adjectives, which might, possibly, still do some work by modifying a noun.

and an all-out plunge into action,

Cliched, vapid. Save "all-out plunges" for advertising copy. "Action" is so generic, it's almost as if you were filling out a Mad-Libs, but you left that space blank.

full-throttled rage into the new, a rampaging quest for experience, on the other.

"The new" (adjectival noun again), "experience": abstract, palpably limp. Actually comical when paired with the colorless hyperbole of "full-throttled rage" and "rampaging quest".

You should stop wasting your time. But, at the very least, just keep this crap to yourself.

#345

Posted by: RTL, DEATH's acupuncturist Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:41 PM

I hate going away somewhere internetless for two days and coming back to find, not just 500+ posts in the Thread I was last reading, but two new fucking Threads!

What's the matter with you people? Two days without me and you fall apart.


Given the current heightened state of homophobic feeling in Uganda....

I really fucking hate this pastor.

#346

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:44 PM

I hate (sorry, Jules) Carson McCullers, and I hate Sylvia Plath. Yeah, maybe I should revisit them, but I have other things to do.

#347

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:44 PM

I really have to pee, but the closest bathroom is miles away. I hate this shit.

ODS, just follow this guy's example.

#348

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:46 PM

There are these trees on campus called cum trees. And all week they've been smelling like cum.

#349

Posted by: RTL, DEATH's acupuncturist Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:47 PM

Wait, we're still talking about Top Chef, right?
I hate all cooking programmes.

And all property finding/renovating programmes.
And all ... oh, never mind. We'd be here all night.

#350

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:49 PM

This may belong in the other thread, but I deeply, deeply love CJO right now.

#351

Posted by: SallyStrange Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:50 PM

I did. So call me a sucker.

#352

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:54 PM

I hate all cooking programmes.

Hell's Kitchen. Gordon Ramsey is amusing.

#353

Posted by: Benjamin "insert clever nickname here" Geiger Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:56 PM

Good Eats is about the only one I can stomach. (Pun entirely intended.)

#354

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:57 PM

CJO, I did not hate your smackdown.

Maybe every aspiring poet should have - for one year - to use concrete words, in some substantial part in their literal meaning?

#355

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 4:58 PM

I hate transphobia.

#356

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:00 PM

It's ok, SC. I'm aware that isolation in the Deep South is not a theme that immediately resonates with everyone. I also suppose that our shared love of circus freaks is probably not a human universal.

But I don't like Sylvia Plath much, either.

#357

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:04 PM

I hate that Carnivale was never finished.

#358

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:06 PM

Besides, Blue Ball sounds more familiar.

You do realize we're talking about actual towns, right?

I hate when it's unclear.

#359

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:09 PM

Re Haggard

Is Haggard still sticking to his anti-LGBT views? Because its good for him the he's admitting to bisexuality, but I can't forgive him for his views.

I despise American evangelical Christians for fostering violence in places like Uganda.

#360

Posted by: Walton, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:12 PM

CJO:

Wait... someone wrote a poem which (good or bad) was evidently heartfelt and meaningful to him or her. He or she decided to share it with us on a thread which was about the emotional pain of losing loved ones. And you think it's a good idea to rip his or her work to shreds, line-by-line, and be an obnoxious arrogant asshole about it?

Fuck.

I hate critics.

This kind of bullshit is why I will never attempt to become a published writer. Just saying.

#361

Posted by: Markita Lynda, Death's Little Sister Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:14 PM

Another place to aim your hate: homeopathy poll:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8524926.stm

#362

Posted by: RTL, DEATH's acupuncturist Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:14 PM

Gordon Ramsey is amusing.
No he fucking isn't.
#363

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:18 PM

SC:

You do realize we're talking about actual towns, right?

I hate when it's unclear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Ball,_Pennsylvania

#365

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:19 PM

CJO, you just vaulted into the upper echelons of my Molly list.

I hate it when people stir their metaphors.

#366

Posted by: Walton, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:22 PM

I should add to #360 that this is why I hate the whole arts/literature/music/entertainment world in general. People are so pointlessly nasty to each other.

If you don't like someone's work, then just stop reading it, move on, and don't bother reading anything else by that person. No need to say anything on the subject. I have never understood why people feel the need to boost their own egos by ranting about how awful other people's creative works are.

Is it ever ok to be nasty? Sure, when important things are at stake. In politics and in medicine, say, sloppy thinking and bad ideas can kill people, and so they need to be smacked down aggressively. In these fields, we're dealing (at least partly) with empirical facts, with an objective standard of truth and falsehood, and so it's both legitimate and important to point out when other people's work is bad.

But in the arts, there is no objective standard of "good" or "bad". There's only personal taste. And I adhere to the view that if you can't say something nice, you shouldn't say anything.

#367

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:22 PM

Walton, CJO did the critique in this thread, not the thread with the bad poetry.

As for the "poem" itself, it's execrable, and in the thread, people are simply listing or copying fave poems/songs that deal with death in a non-mystical manner. It's not sacred.

#368

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:24 PM

what I get for peeking

responding with a form letter is condescending...["to behave as if one is conscious of descending from a superior position, rank, or dignity."]

How? I honestly don't see how you get there. It was simply a generic refusal to continue a conversation I already gave reasons for not wishing to continue. Those reasons had nothing to do with my evincing superior position, rank, or dignity and everything with me not having any fun and therefore choosing to shut down my side of the exchange. That's it.

It is a lot less condescending to simply not respond.

I disagree. If I address a comment directly to somebody and they ignore it completely, it may or may not be because they are condescending. Maybe they really think I don't deserve any response because they are just so superior and ethical and right-thinking that it is beneath them to speak to a mere mortal such as I. That would be condescending. On the other hand, they might have just skimmed past it, read it but just don't care, have me in their killfile, or whatever--I'll never know.
But what it definitely is, in my view, is rude. By telling you I refused to respond I was simply trying to let you know that I saw your comment but nevertheless declined to respond. And I linked to the (noncondescending) reasons for that refusal. Common courtesy. That's it! What was offensive or condescending about it?

It is as if to say "not only are you not worth my time, I am going to make sure you understand you are not worth my time."

Nope. It is merely to say "I saw your comment but am opting out of replying". That's all it said, and that's all it meant.
Look, as we've all learned recently, your brain works rhetorically as the default setting, but mine does not. If I thought your bullshit wasn't worth my time and I wanted you to know that, that's what I would have fucking said. Please note that that's not what I said. And every time you claim otherwise, you are lying.

Generally, if you say something stupid in public, people will respond.

*shrug* I let you, and many others around here, including PZ, slide with shit I think is stupid all the damn time.
But I have no doubt that you define "stupid" as idiosyncratically as you do everything else, and without my Humpty-Dumpty/English dictionary I never really know what you're trying to say (neither, I suspect, does anybody else that hasn't internalized your secret north-campus lingo). *shrug*

it is astonishingly stupid for you to expect that I will not respond when you continue talking about me, like right now

Surprise, you narcissistic ego you: I was actually talking about Rutee, Sotto Voce Harpy of Duuuuuuumb.

NOT you.

back to shutting up

#369

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:25 PM

Maybe every aspiring poet should have - for one year - to use concrete words, in some substantial part in their literal meaning?
All poets should do this as a rule. Word soup is annoying.

I'm glad I did a quick stint as a creative writing teacher for jr high to high school kids, but it was...tough at times. I worked to find ways to tell the kids that their approach was off without trying to demean them or what they were trying to do. I'm sure feelings still got hurt sometimes, though.

This kind of bullshit is why I will never attempt to become a published writer. Just saying.
Nor should you, if that's how you feel. I like your writing and think you're good, but people are brutal if you put yourself out there. You will get that treatment or close to it from someone. It's the nature of the beast*.

If that person takes CJO's advice, their poetry will be much better for it. If they don't, then it's more about themselves, and they should recognize that they don't give a fuck about their audience and just keep it to themselves.

Also, CJO did it here, not there. For what that is worth to you.

*Or maybe I'm just a bad playwright sometimes. And none of my friends like me enough to keep me from getting the stuff produced. Fucking assholes.

#370

Posted by: Moggie Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:26 PM

Wait... someone wrote a poem which (good or bad) was evidently heartfelt and meaningful to him or her.

Evidently? I'd say it was preening sophomoric toss, devoid of any genuine emotion, and posted for shameless self-promotion - which I wouldn't say about the other poster in that thread who offered their own work.

#371

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:26 PM

Walton:

And I adhere to the view that if you can't say something nice, you shouldn't say anything.

Fine, then don't say anything. As someone who has been a successful artist for the last 30 years or so, I can tell you that if you wish to pursue a career in the arts, you're going to hear a lot of nasty shit. If you can't handle criticism, it's not the field for you. I might add that you'll hear a lot of schmoozy crap too, and that's often worse and much more poisonous. It's a tough way to make a living.

#373

Posted by: Walton, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:29 PM

Walton, CJO did the critique in this thread, not the thread with the bad poetry.

What difference does that make?

Seriously, what the fuck was the point in CJO's post, other than to humiliate kyle and assert his superiority? It just came across to me like a pointless, nasty exercise in ego-massaging.

It's not sacred.

I didn't say it was. I don't hold anything "sacred". But that doesn't mean that pointless vitriol is justified.

I'm not going to keep on arguing about this (even though this is the Designated Hate thread), since I have nothing else to say. But CJO just sank several notches in my estimation.

#374

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:35 PM

No, Walton. You know what's fucking awful about the art world?

That something truly schlocky, truly nothing but drivel, will GET BILLED AS "OMG TEH BEST THING EVAR!!!!11" Just because the author happens to appeal to a certain segment of the population and they just lap it up like it's some magical brew which will make all the worst stuff in life just vanish! Something that makes even the trashiest writing, the worst painting/poetry/whatever, look like gold, and IT gets lauded like it's the Second Coming, by everyone EXCEPT people who see it for what it is!

#375

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:36 PM

People are so pointlessly nasty to each other.

THIS IS THE HATE THREAD. TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.

#376

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:37 PM

But that doesn't mean that pointless vitriol is justified.

It wasn't pointless. The "poem" was beyond awful and wrong in just about every way a poem could be.

There's really no need for you to take this personally.

#377

Posted by: Walton, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:39 PM

As someone who has been a successful artist for the last 30 years or so, I can tell you that if you wish to pursue a career in the arts

I don't. (And, having found that people in student politics can be just as nasty, I decided not to go into politics for that reason.)

And as far as we can tell, neither does kyle-whatever-his-name-is (who I hadn't come across until I read CJO's post, since I hadn't been reading that thread). We have no reason to suppose that he's pursuing a "career" as a professional writer or that he aspires to be a published poet: he might be, but we don't know that, since he's just some randomer who dropped by.

(I'm assuming that "kyle" is male. I could be wrong, but I can't be arsed to write "he or she" every time. No sexism is intended.)

If you can't handle criticism, it's not the field for you.

I know. I'm not talking about myself, and I'm not looking for advice. (I am more thin-skinned than most people, which is why I'm not going into politics, or the arts, or any career which involves extensive public attention.)

I'm asking why CJO decided to be an asshole to some random person that he knows nothing about. I have no idea who kyle is, and for all I know, he might not give a shit. He might not be reading this thread. But equally, he might have been deeply wounded by CJO's comments. We have no way of telling.

#378

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:40 PM

My parents had friends who lived in Paradise, down the road.

If you see your neighbor carryin' something
Help him with his load.
And don;t go mistakin' Paradise
for that home across the road.

#379

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:46 PM

No need to say anything on the subject.
No need for you to read it. I actually enjoy reading criticisms. I enjoy receiving criticisms of my work. I think it makes it better.

I have never understood why people feel the need to boost their own egos by ranting about how awful other people's creative works are.
Maybe because that's not why they're doing it? Maybe some people actually care about good work?

You assert that CJO is doing it because of hir ego. What proof do you have of that? Why is it that CJO is the mean one, and it's not that the other person was shamelessly self-promoting at the first opportunity? You're making a lot of assumptions.

Is it ever ok to be nasty? Sure, when important things are at stake.
Sure, no one will die over a play or poem (most likely), but please don't sweep it all away as unimportant just because it is unimportant to you. I assure you, to some of us, artistic endeavors are extremely important.

Not saying CJO needed to be nasty, but I want to point out that belittling art isn't exactly a nice thing to do.

*Though, having sat through earning a degree in creative writing, I certainly understand (and appreciate) it.

#380

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:49 PM

Walton:

We have no way of telling.

Yes we do. If Kyle is reading this thread and has any issue with CJO's critique, I have no doubt Kyle would speak up, so to speak. You're doing quite a bit of projecting here, I think.

#381

Posted by: CJO Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:49 PM

Go sugar it with joy-bliss and hymn-dance, Walton.

#382

Posted by: Markita Lynda, Death's Little Sister Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:50 PM

Sorry, Homeopathy poll here: Homeopathy forever. Please don't hate me. Hate them.

#383

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:52 PM

You talking to me, Harpy of Dooooooom? Cause I have this massively overdeveloped twitch reflex and Imma assume half the shit in this thread is directed at me, so I just wanna be clear.
No, fear not. I addressed to you what was to you. That was for Sven. I apologize, in retrospect placed at the bottom this would have caused less problems, perhaps. Or maybe with ----s. And I hate your ex-. A lot, and I hate myself for not reading fully earlier and thus bringing it up late.
Nope. It is merely to say "I saw your comment but am opting out of replying". That's all it said, and that's all it meant. Look, as we've all learned recently, your brain works rhetorically as the default setting, but mine does not. If I thought your bullshit wasn't worth my time and I wanted you to know that, that's what I would have fucking said. Please note that that's not what I said. And every time you claim otherwise, you are lying.
Are you an idiot? Seriously? You're going to claim you can only say the literal intention of your words now? That nothing else beyond them can possibly be conveyed or read? That any other reading is absolutely positively, unfounded?

Look, you titanic jackass who has elected blinders over substance: You don't exist in some little island that's never posted here. You've already engaged on one passive aggressive little foray into 'non-response' that was specifically designed by you to have an insulting message, and you said as much, without literally insulting anyone. It is not outside the realm of possibility that you would do so again. I'm not going to apologize for a completely valid reading of your post, but I will admit that it was still wrong.

-----

http://graphicpolicy.com/2010/12/25/warner-todd-huston-at-it-again-this-time-attacking-batman/
I hate that idiots listen to this guy. One of my friends is running around campus correcting this nonsense now.
#384

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:53 PM

Go sugar it with joy-bliss and hymn-dance, Walton.
*snerk*
#385

Posted by: Walton, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:54 PM

I assure you, to some of us, artistic endeavors are extremely important.

Point taken. I shouldn't have said "important". (Indeed, if I didn't think people's artistic endeavours were important, I wouldn't be making this point in the first place. It's precisely because they're important that criticism can be hurtful.)

Rather, the point I was trying to make (very badly: I'm exhausted and really irritable and angry with the world right now, for reasons that have nothing to do with this thread) was that there is no objective standard of "good" or "bad". Art, by definition, isn't science. We're not dealing with any benchmark of objective truth here.

"Bad medicine" is bad because it makes fact-claims that are not founded on empirical evidence, and that, when applied, cause people to die needlessly. But this isn't true in the arts, because they're a fundamentally different form of intellectual endeavour. "Bad art" is art that offends against standards of aesthetic taste.

I realize I'm not arguing very coherently. Like I said, I'm unusually irritable right now (for personal reasons that I can't talk about) and am also pretty tired. But CJO's post just annoyed me: it seemed unnecessarily nasty. It could have been phrased as "constructive suggestions for improvement" and I wouldn't have reacted like this.

#386

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:56 PM

Go sugar it with joy-bliss and hymn-dance, Walton.

Oh my. I just laughed so hard I feel bad about it.

#387

Posted by: キャロル AKA kiyaroru Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 5:57 PM

I hate everyone who has the time and the guts to not only keep up with TWO Edndlesses'ses but also to read-and-post to other threads. and get anything else done.

#388

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:01 PM

CJO:

Go sugar it with joy-bliss and hymn-dance

Now that's a nasty thing to say. I think that's going into the meme folder next to the decaying porcupine.

#389

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:02 PM

Rather, the point I was trying to make...was that there is no objective standard of "good" or "bad". Art, by definition, isn't science. We're not dealing with any benchmark of objective truth here.
You're not actually right about there being no objective. Sure, it's a really, really broad objective measure, but it exists:

Can anyone fucking understand what the fuck you're talking about?

In the case of that "poem," I find it highly doubtful that anyone could or even that the author ever intended for anyone to. And not in that fun absurdist sense*.

*Absurdism can still fall into the understanding what the fuck it's about thing if it's understood to be absurdist.

#390

Posted by: Moggie Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:05 PM

THIS IS THE HATE THREAD. TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room!

#391

Posted by: Walton, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:05 PM

You're doing quite a bit of projecting here, I think.

*sigh*

Yes, probably I am.

If I were ever to post a story or a poem, and if someone were to rip it to shreds like CJO did above? I'd be pretty fucking devastated, and would probably never write again.

And you wouldn't know this. Because if it were me rather than kyle who had been the target of CJO's tirade, I wouldn't be ranting back at him as I am now. I'd be too afraid of looking pathetic. (I'm probably looking pathetic now anyway, but I can't help that: I didn't intend the conversation to end up like this.) So I'd leave the computer and go and sob quietly somewhere. And you'd never know. Publicly, I'd act as if it didn't matter.

I'm sure certain regulars will now tell me to "harden up" or something to that effect. And I'm sure my attitude will hold me back in any kind of career. But I am what I am.

Fuck.

Since this is the hate thread... have I mentioned I hate society?

Yeah. Humans suck.

Myself included.

I'm going to bow out of this now, because it isn't productive.

#392

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:06 PM

Go sugar it with joy-bliss and hymn-dance, Walton.

And street-foam.

#393

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:06 PM

Oh, and Walton, sorry you're not feeling so good. *punches him in the nose* I hope that makes you feel better.

(I tried to keep it tough so I wouldn't have to go over to the Love thread.)

*hugs*

#394

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:07 PM

MrFire:

ODS, just follow this guy's example.

Uhhhhh, I just get a list of YouTube videos, some of which are labeled "hot Asians". As much as I appreciate hotness, I don't think that's what you were going for.

Walton,
Seriously? Did you read the poem?

If I post something publicly then I fully expect to be criticized over it. Anyone that doesn't expect negative feedback (especially here, given our general snarkiness and high level of anonymity) is not living in reality.

There is no such thing as an A for effort.

#395

Posted by: Jadehawk Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:08 PM

It's C-O-L-D!!!
feature, not bug.

I hate heat. The only thing heat is good for is food

#396

Posted by: Jadehawk Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:14 PM

Anyone that doesn't expect negative feedback (especially here, given our general snarkiness and high level of anonymity) is not living in reality.

more importantly, anyone who doesn't expect, and falls apart because of, negative feedback, isn't going to get better as an artist; ever.

I've cried over criticism before, and it hurts, but in the end... well, in the end I do get to make money from it instead of serving coffee to assholes, so it's all good.

#397

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:14 PM

Walton:

I'm sure certain regulars will now tell me to "harden up" or something to that effect.

I won't. The arts aren't for everyone. I rather imagine that before you considered posting any of your writing, it would be a well thought out decision, complete with preface, requesting kindness in any critique.

Remember, some of us have read a little bit of your writing and it was greatly liked. I don't think you have much to worry about on that score.

#398

Posted by: Rey Fox, Death of the Party Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:14 PM

Um...I like reading criticism too. Especially of the negative variety. Is that hate or love?

I used to listen to a movie review podcast (will again if they return from hiatus), and they've made it clear more than once that they do what they do out of love for the medium, and a desire to make it better. And perhaps the "nastiness" of film criticism is somewhat tempered by the cynicism that often goes into filmmaking, particularly of the kind that gets savaged on that podcast.

#399

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:15 PM

Now that's a nasty thing to say. I think that's going into the meme folder next to the decaying porcupine.

It so belongs there.

#400

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:19 PM

Dania:

It so belongs there.

Oh yes. I'm thinking...Go sugar a decaying porcupine with joy-bliss and hymn-dance it up your anus. Sideways.

#401

Posted by: キャロル AKA kiyaroru Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:19 PM

I'm doing a saliva-dance with my rage-kitteh in an attempt to treat a bit of feline acne* on her jaw.


*she has a zit. The vet used the term. I did not make it up.

#402

Posted by: Jules, Bride of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:20 PM

I've gotten mad as hell over criticism before because I thought it was invalid. But, then, I had to evaluate the criticism against my work (and usually talk to other artists/friends I trusted) in order to dismiss it. Which is still an enlightening experience.

If I think it's valid, I'm usually pretty tough, even if it's harsh.

These days.

But that's after I went through it in college (where my degree really just meant writing and getting harshly criticized for all of my core coursework) and spent 5 years with my work in front of audiences and reviewers (brutal, brutal Okie newspaper reviewers).

#403

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:22 PM

Walton:

And I adhere to the view that if you can't say something nice, you shouldn't say anything.

Your absolutist self-censorship advocacy is noted.

Perhaps you fail to see that some of us can cope without using dogmatic rules as crutches?

#404

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:23 PM

Two of my poems are here:

Hate away. Karel Čapek (my new favorite) thought that all literary criticism should be an act of love. Don't like it, keep it to yourself.

Meh.

#405

Posted by: Walton, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:27 PM

There is no such thing as an A for effort.

And that right there...

...is the number one problem with human society.

Anyway... dammit, I'm sorry for my incoherent tirade. I can see that I'm in a minority of one on this, and I'm not going to continue arguing when I am seemingly incapable of making a rational point tonight.

I have little idea why I'm such a mess right now. For the record, I'm stone-cold sober, and am not on any kind of drugs. I did get an email earlier that I was mildly unhappy about (it would be hard to explain, so I won't try), but it's objectively completely trivial.

I just seem to be very, very tired. I ran 4k in the gym this afternoon, but that shouldn't make me this exhausted. But perhaps my physical stamina has declined more than I thought (with the weight loss, etc.)

Anyway. I should probably stop posting and go to bed.

#406

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:28 PM

Walton:

Seriously, what the fuck was the point in CJO's post, other than to humiliate kyle and assert his superiority?

Thus you demonstrate your adherence to the view that if you can't say something nice, you shouldn't say anything.

#407

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:30 PM

Go sugar a decaying porcupine with joy-bliss and hymn-dance it up your anus. Sideways.

While rage-wrestling with a cobra-serpent.

#408

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:33 PM

While rage-wrestling with a cobra-serpent.

:snortle:

#409

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:37 PM

Walton:

There is no such thing as an A for effort.

And that right there...

...is the number one problem with human society.

I know you said you're dropping this and you're going to bed (and I am sorry to hear that you're feeling poorly) but I've gotta say:

Lol, wut?

You do realize that you're advocating mediocrity, right?

#410

Posted by: Muse Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:42 PM

Caine - you're totally my hero for the next two minutes.

#411

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:45 PM

ODS:

You do realize that you're advocating mediocrity, right?

Not only mediocrity, but a monster sense of entitlement. That little experiment was tried here, in the schools, a little while back. Everyone got a gold star, all the time, for nothing. "Oh, Johnny, you're breathing! Have a gold star!" Eeesh.

My favourite cock-up along those lines was when a bunch of schools banned teachers from using red ink for corrections and grading, 'cause a psychologist said it was really, really bad for kids...red is an angry colour, doncha know?

#412

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:48 PM

Muse:

Caine - you're totally my hero for the next two minutes.

:Smiles and laughs Frowns and grumbles:

#413

Posted by: Rey Fox, Death of the Party Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:51 PM

...is the number one problem with human society.

I'm not sure I get you there. Praising for mere effort is done in school to motivate kids to even start doing things that may not have immediate gratification for them. Once you're grown up, you're supposed to know that you have to put forth effort in order to achieve some sort of goal.

(Also, the "A for effort" or "E for effort" in the popular vernacular is typically a condescending way to denote someone's lack of success in some endeavor, so I wouldn't necessarily advocate it.)

I'm sure you're just having a bad day, Walton, perhaps coupled with your demonstrated sensitivity to the injustices of the world that most people try to ignore. A good Saturday morning sleep should do a world of good.

All this talk about rage-lions and cobra-serpents is making me think of conversion vans.

#414

Posted by: Feynmaniac, Chimerical Toad Superhero Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:55 PM

I thought the HATE thread would be winning by much more.

#415

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:56 PM

Surprise, you narcissistic ego you: I was actually talking about Rutee, Sotto Voce Harpy of Duuuuuuumb.

NOT you.

Sven it was obvious that you were talking about Rutee in parts there. Like for instance where you said "I hate smug condescension more than almost anything else" that clearly was not addressed to me, because you had just been calling Rutee's words condescending. But I thought it was clear you were talking about both of us in parts of that comment, because of this:

And I hate it when people willfully redefine wrods (e.g. 'condescension') just for the sake of a smug tu quoque.

That doesn't make any sense unless you're talking about my comment at #82, because Rutee had not used the word condescension, or any form of it, in this conversation prior to your #268.

Now, how am I supposed to believe that you were not talking about me, when I'm the one who turned the word condescension back at you as a tu quoque, and nobody else did?

This is where I have to ask, should I call you stupid, or call you a liar? You are fond of calling me a liar, but I don't know what to think about you. It's possible you're lying. It's also possible that you can't hold a lot of things in your brain at once -- I can relate -- and so maybe you're just stupid. OTOH, maybe I'm predisposed to give you the benefit of the doubt because I'm stupid. Maybe you are lying. Perhaps you can advise?

#416

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 6:58 PM

I thought the HATE thread would be winning by much more.
And don't you just hate that???

*the critics of Pharyngula will have a field day with those stats.

#417

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:02 PM

Caine:

Not only mediocrity, but a monster sense of entitlement.

Yes. This. And the two often go hand-in-hand.

#418

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:08 PM

*the critics of Pharyngula will have a field day with those stats.

They see us hatin, they lovin.

#419

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:10 PM

#417 - Welcome to Hell for Teachers. Can't really call the kid son any BS they pull, or they might sic their parents on us. Can't criticize or we're mean. The red pen crap: Was told to do that on my volunteer stint. I ignored it, and continued to use red pen. No one said a word.

I hate those little monsters who act all hurt and sensitive in front of their parents, but are really some of the worst kids you can meet. Don't tell me they haven't figured out how to manipulate people by kindergarten - I see it happen. Some of them don't even have a sense of personal space, except when it comes to themselves. But it's oh perfectly fine to GET IN MY FACE AND EXPECT ME TO IGNORE THEIR RUDENESS! Fuck off!

#420

Posted by: David Marjanović Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:12 PM

Haven't caught up. Hate the fact that doubling teh Thread doubled the comment rate – taking both subthreads together, there have been something like 700 comments in 12 hours.

how can anyone hate snow. wtf is wrong with Y'all!?

*glowers*

Take it to the fucking love thread, snow miser.

Now look at that. SC is wrong on the Internet!

When it's cold, dress appropriately. Summers should be hot enough that I don't need to wear much, but winters should have snow, snow, snow, and more snow; for that, I'll gladly wrap myself in three layers.

My favourite cock-up along those lines was when a bunch of schools banned teachers from using red ink for corrections and grading, 'cause a psychologist said it was really, really bad for kids...red is an angry colour, doncha know?

Taken seriously enough over here that some teachers use green instead, all the way to twelfth grade. <shrug> BFD.

#421

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:13 PM

Okay, one more:

I really hate that Thad bothered to take the time to insult me, but couldn't come up with anything better than this:

You obviously missed my statement to ODious.

ODious? That's it? I'm offended at the fucking lazy attempt at snarkiness, not the insult itself.

#422

Posted by: Muse Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:16 PM

I used to use frighteningly pink pen when I graded. The reactions of my high school boys were pretty damn funny.

#423

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:17 PM

Walton


(Although here, I agree with him. Three-comment advisory, etc. What if kyle is a fourteen-yo kid? Even if xe's not, what if xe's sincere? Where's this "shameless self-promotion"; was there a link to a self-published chapbook for sale? So what, you think it's a bad poem, or it really is a bad poem; it was posted in a blog comment thread, not a juried bleedin' competition. This has nothing to do with professional criticism or Walton's "whole arts/literature/music/entertainment world" and it has nothing to do with you professional artistes. It's some poor schmoe posting an original poem as a freakin. blog. comment.

So yeah, CJO's skewering came off as pointless cruelty to me, too. And to defend it as just "caring about good work" or as constructive criticism from which kyle is expected to learn and improve or as "just the way of the art world, dahling, grow a thick skin or get out" is thoughtless posturing. How the fuck do you know that this kyle person is even trying to "get better as an artist"? What if kyle's some quasi-suicidal Sylvia-Plath-fanboi teen trainwreck or something who plays Sarah McLachlan (who, incidentally, I hate) all night long in hir room burning candles and incense and writing therapeutic bad poetry?

Walton's point is correct: none of you know nor evidently care anything about the person who posted that poem; it's just kicks to make snarky fun of somebody's execrable attempt because that somebody posted it on the motherfucking internet. Hey, I know, why don't you go down to the local highschool and sneer loudly at the student art projects on display?

If Kyle is reading this thread and has any issue with CJO's critique, I have no doubt Kyle would speak up, so to speak. You're doing quite a bit of projecting here, I think.

You have no doubt? WTF? Who exactly is doing the projection here? Jeezus.

Fuck I hate some of you people some of the time. I'm not coming back for a while.)

Don't like it, keep it to yourself.

Yes! My point.

#424

Posted by: CJO Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:24 PM

that somebody posted it on the motherfucking internet Pharyngula

FIFY. also, GSIWJ-BAH-D

(I may have to shower some LOVE on the fact that the abbreviation contains the sequence 'BAH')

#425

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:25 PM

Don't like it, keep it to yourself.

Yes! My point.

It's interesting that those who advocate the "don't like it, keep it to yourself" line have a lot of trouble doing just that.

#426

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:28 PM

Muse:

I used to use frighteningly pink pen when I graded. The reactions of my high school boys were pretty damn funny.

Hee. Pink is good. One of my teachers used obnoxious pink, it was nice and noticeable.

#427

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:35 PM

Now look at that. SC is wrong on the Internet!

How could I be wrong? We hate it - personal opinion and point of the thread. Not hating it or questioning why people hate it is NOT the point of the thread. In fact, there's another entire thread for that purpose.

That thread also serves the purpose of defending bad poetry. (I fully understand those who don't like attacks on it, but in the end I think if you're going to put it out there you need to develop a means of dealing with the harshest criticism. And you, Sven, have been vicious about music - don't you think those people have feelings?)

#428

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:40 PM

My kid is damn cute when she's sleeping.

Take that hataz!

#429

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:46 PM

Jules way back:

I hate that you don't have a pianist's fingers, MrFire, because that does not fit into my fantasiespicture of you.

*blinks*

*looks at wedding ring*

*does 'snap-out-of-it' head shake thing*

I hate not being a cad.

#430

Posted by: «bønez_brigade» Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:50 PM

"..."
/rant

#431

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:53 PM

...is the number one problem with human society.

Comrade, surely the number one problem is when A is for authority?

You do realize that you're advocating mediocrity, right?

That may be, but it's art. There's nothing wrong with art being ugly and clumsy and pathetic.

That's not to say that it's not worthwhile to work to improve one's skills, but the worth is inherent in the improvement because it allows the artist to more reliably produce outside one's self what was present in the mind.

The worth is not in meeting others' expectations. (Meeting the expectations of a competent teacher may assist one in improving one's skills, of course, but coming over here into this thread to talk about the artist behind the artist's back accomplishes nothing to lift mediocrity.)

I think that Walton's point is similar to Dawkins' about religion being inhumane to the extent that it serves ghosts instead of humans' needs.

Here art is being turned away from the service of artists' own purposes, toward some prevailing cultural demands. And while some of these demands do serve human needs -- if the art expressed bigotry more of us would be ahootin' and ahollerin' -- it's not clear that they all do. Prevailing cultural demands often amount to nothing more than soft authoritarianism, the corral of the white picket fence.

An anarchist approach to hard authoritarianism, that all authorities should be presumed illegitimate instead of presumed legitimate, might sensibly be applied to cultural standards of art too. Who is being served by these standards? The human? Perhaps they serve only the unconscious superorganism we call conservatism, which is as worthy of service as a god or a ghost.

My favourite cock-up along those lines was when a bunch of schools banned teachers from using red ink for corrections and grading, 'cause a psychologist said it was really, really bad for kids...red is an angry colour, doncha know?

Something of a suburban legend, isn't it?

#432

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 7:54 PM

Hey, I know, why don't you go down to the local highschool and sneer loudly at the student art projects on display?

Meh. Did that yesterday.

#433

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:00 PM

Uhhhhh, I just get a list of YouTube videos, some of which are labeled "hot Asians".

What.

Fucking smartphone.

Okay, now I'm at my desk: try this. The joke died ages ago, 'course.

I know it seems incriminating and all, but seriously, I have no idea how the fuck that happened.

#434

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:02 PM

When it's cold, dress appropriately.

Oh, and I hadn't even said anything about cold (only about snow), but I hate that a few weeks ago, scraping off my windshield leaving a friend's house, the cold made my vasovagal syncope kick in and I had yet another fainting spell, complete with nausea.

It doesn't matter how I dress. I HATE the cold. OK with you?

#435

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:08 PM

An anarchist approach to hard authoritarianism, that all authorities should be presumed illegitimate instead of presumed legitimate, might sensibly be applied to cultural standards of art too.

Oh, give me a fucking break. Right. No one is claiming any status as an authority. Just fucking presume CJO illegitimate and be done with it.

#436

Posted by: キャロル AKA kiyaroru Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:09 PM

#423 Sven DiMilo
jeez. are you drunk?

#437

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:09 PM

because it allows the artist to more reliably produce outside one's self what was present in the mind.

Highlighting a pseudo-controversial split infinitive marks the limit of my ability to coherently criticize Strange Gods on anything.

I'm going to pretend the Skitt's Law in the above sentence was deliberate, too.

#438

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:13 PM

and IT gets lauded like it's the Second Coming, by everyone EXCEPT people who see it for what it is!

Somehow I doubt kyle is going to steal your thunder. So this comment is really more of a misdirection of your anger.

#439

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:15 PM

The worth is not in meeting others' expectations.

In which case kyle doesn't care what CJO thinks.

Here art is being turned away from the service of artists' own purposes,

How do you know what the artist's purposes are?

#440

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:16 PM

Fuck the cold. I perfer my heat and my warmth.

#441

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:19 PM

SGBM:

There's nothing wrong with art being ugly and clumsy and pathetic.

Just like with people.

Here art is being turned away from the service of artists' own purposes, toward some prevailing cultural demands.

Your concern is noted.

#442

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:19 PM

Highlighting a pseudo-controversial split infinitive marks the limit of my ability to coherently criticize Strange Gods on anything.

GO BACK TO ROME, MISTER.

#443

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:19 PM

There's nothing wrong with art being ugly and clumsy and pathetic.

Yes. Yes, there is.

#444

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:24 PM

MrFire:

Highlighting a pseudo-controversial split infinitive marks the limit of my ability to coherently criticize Strange Gods on anything.

There's nothing wrong with being argumentatively feeble, either.

#445

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:24 PM

sgbm:

Prevailing cultural demands often amount to nothing more than soft authoritarianism, the corral of the white picket fence.

Gods, you're full of shit. This sort of pretentious crap is the main reason I fired my agent decades ago and refuse to attend my gallery shows. Dipshits spouting crap about art abound and it is incredibly painful listening to them go on and on, acting like they know what they're talking about.

Something of a suburban legend, isn't it?

No, it isn't. I know teachers who have dealt with the red ink business. Also, if you read more, rather than jumping into everything mouth open, you may have noted the teachers who said they were told not to use red ink along with DM who said it was taken seriously enough in his part of the world that green ink is used.

#446

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:29 PM

Oh, give me a fucking break. Right. No one is claiming any status as an authority. Just fucking presume CJO illegitimate and be done with it.

Nobody needs to claim status as an authority for inhumane social roles to emerge from human interactions. Soft authoritarianism can emerge merely from the stifling judgments of fellow apes.

How do you know what the artist's purposes are?

I don't, but it's reasonable to assume that the artist's work was on some trajectory toward the artist's purposes.

Just like with people.

Yes, there's nothing wrong with people being ugly and clumsy and pathetic. There can be other things wrong with people, and it may be that these three things can in some instances produce wrongs, but they needn't necessarily.

Your concern is noted.

Thank you, John. I was afraid it might not be.

(I am not very concerned, and so would not have bothered to write what Sven did, but since he did I'll note that I agree with him.)

Yes. Yes, there is.

What is this wrong, then?

#447

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:30 PM

SGBM - That was more a rant about the trashiest of dreck being promoted like it was the best thing any creative person ever produced. *gives a certain teen author the evil eye* I don't include Harry Potter, because that's actually pretty well-written compared to that . . . oh I can't even think of a word for it!

#448

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:31 PM

1) hate tail gators when the road is covered in ince. Seriously people, use a fuck load of sense

2) Oh look Thad has a friend, how quaint. Has AKAsquared posted before?

3) Hate that I slipped and fell on ice...while carrying glass ware. DAMN IT

#449

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:33 PM

That's not to say that it's not worthwhile to work to improve one's skills, but the worth is inherent in the improvement because it allows the artist to more reliably produce outside one's self what was present in the mind.

What kind of social vacuum do you think artists work in?

#450

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:34 PM

Gods, you're full of shit. This sort of pretentious crap is the main reason I fired my agent decades ago and refuse to attend my gallery shows. Dipshits spouting crap about art abound and it is incredibly painful listening to them go on and on, acting like they know what they're talking about.

If you know what you're talking about, then prove it. I am a dipshit. We'll go ahead and grant that assertion. But what precisely is incorrect about what I said?

#451

Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space, OM, Death's Wellness Consultant Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:34 PM

I made the mistake of looking at the comments on Yahoo for some science articles, and so I think it's time to spend a little time on the Hate thread.

So somebody remind me, but when did the US become a nation of delusional wankers? Hell, these guys aren't even wankers. They can't even find their pudendae with both hands, a GPS and exact coordinates!

An article saying time stops at the event horizon of a mature black hole. Cool stuff. Any appreciation? Nope! Just the obvious racist Obama jokes, gripes about scientists not having to "work for a living" and lame references to porn. Sigh!

The articles on climate change were even worse. Absolutely confident assertions of fraud, incompetence and conspiracy. Utter inability to write a coherent sentence. Appeals to "common sense". All wrong, wrong wrong. These folks are so fucking stupid, stupid people stare at them on the bus!

I'm really reaching the point where I'm starting to think the extinction of the human race is a good thing. My one regret is that I won't be around to piss on these bastards' graves.

#452

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:34 PM

@ Insomnica

Twilight?

#453

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:38 PM

Ing:

Has AKAsquared posted before?

A quick search says no. At least not under that nym.

Hate that I slipped and fell on ice

Augh! Too many people falling this winter.

#454

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:38 PM

[meta — to you lurkers]

You know, this would be a great thread in which to delurk!

#455

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:40 PM

What kind of social vacuum do you think artists work in?

Some skillful artists produce art and then burn it before anyone else experiences it. I do not understand this, but it suggests to me that art is not fully contained by the social.

For the record, I would not suggest that people seeking careers in art should give no shit what anyone else thinks. That won't pay the bills.

#456

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:43 PM

An article saying time stops at the event horizon of a mature black hole. Cool stuff. Any appreciation? Nope! Just the obvious racist Obama jokes, gripes about scientists not having to "work for a living" and lame references to porn. Sigh!

How do you get from black holes to Obama? People's minds - how do they FUCKING WORK!?

Ing: *with venom* Yes.

#457

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:44 PM

Ing:

Insomnica

That would make a cool nym. :)

#458

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:45 PM

What kind of social vacuum do you think artists work in?

Some skillful artists produce art and then burn it before anyone else experiences it. I do not understand this, but it suggests to me that art is not fully contained by the social.

For the record, I would not suggest that people seeking careers in art should give no shit what anyone else thinks. That won't pay the bills.

No, it isn't. I know teachers who have dealt with the red ink business. Also, if you read more, rather than jumping into everything mouth open, you may have noted the teachers who said they were told not to use red ink along with DM who said it was taken seriously enough in his part of the world that green ink is used.

Caine, I read the thread better than you did in this case. Someone said they were told not to use the pen, and they did anyway, and nothing happened. That does not support your assertion of a ban. In a Bayesian sense, it is evidence against your assertion.

#459

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:45 PM

inhumane social roles

You must realize how contradictory that is.

to emerge from human interactions. Soft authoritarianism can emerge merely from the stifling judgments of fellow apes.

Human beings live in human cultures. We've evolved to do this. Everything about art is social. That's not authoritarian. To suggest that artists are lone geniuses giving expression to their inner fire is to perpetuate a stupid, sexist, Western myth.

I don't, but it's reasonable to assume that the artist's work was on some trajectory toward the artist's purposes.

Which didn't pop out of the fucking ether. And again, you have no idea what they were.

#460

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:46 PM

Hrmmm, Insomnica. Good band name.

#461

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:46 PM

PTI:

People's minds - how do they FUCKING WORK!?

When it comes to Yahoo anything, they don't.

#462

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:50 PM

:

Has AKAsquared posted before?

A quick search says no. At least not under that nym.

I'm not going to say it's odd how he comes up when Thad stops posting to agree with Thad and use the same arguments Thad did and the same "no one said that' points Thad made while praising Thad's clarity....except that I did. Not that it's a sock...just that AKAsquared is an abject twit.

Also, I seriously have to knwo...is Shiloh like 12? Does he have learning disabilities? No one can possibly be that dumb. Does his memory just reset every 15 minutes?

#463

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:52 PM

Some skillful artists produce art and then burn it before anyone else experiences it. I do not understand this, but it suggests to me that art is not fully contained by the social.

We call those people "Bat Squeaking Insane" or mroe politely "suffering from an obsessive disorder"

Not a good example

#464

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:52 PM

Some skillful artists produce art and then burn it before anyone else experiences it. I do not understand this, but it suggests to me that art is not fully contained by the social.

I don't know why.

For the record, I would not suggest that people seeking careers in art should give no shit what anyone else thinks. That won't pay the bills.

Because careers in art are completely independent of society otherwise. What planet are you on?

#465

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:53 PM

a_ray, since you're in such fine ranting form, here's a bit of weapons-grade stupid from that bastion of stupid, RR:

Modern science is no longer a practice, but a religious belief system. Many scientific methods and theories have been defeated and proven wrong, such as carbon 14 dating, macro-evolution, darwinism, and fossilization time requirements. However, if a professor comes out and says that, he will lose his pension, tenure and good standing in the scientific community, and be labeled a wacko. One cannot advance in science without discovering God, if even by accident. I live in Colorado, and there is evidence of Noah's flood everywhere. You can still find sea shells in the mountains. You can also find signs of water damage and erosion up there as well. My wife lived in a farming community for most of her life, and she told me about the many sea shells her and her siblings would find in the corn field. The funny thing is, when clams die, their mouths open. These are all closed, meaning they died in an aquatic event that happened very quickly and violently, like say...a worldwide cataclysmic flood.

Science has long known about all that the bible has been telling us. Bones of giants are found all over the world all the time. You never hear about it, because if a scientist announces this type of discovery, it supports what the bible says about there being giants in ancient times, and they could lose credibility in the scientific community. Science has become a religion.
#466

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 8:58 PM

Speaking of RR, this little tidbit is my current fave from fundiedom:

I have yet to see an atheist or agnostic passing out tracts, etc. I guess they don't feel very comforted by their beliefs, or motivated to share!
#467

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:02 PM

Caine, I'll one up you. RR is a collection of religious bigots. Yahoo is a collection of racist religious bigots:

Blacks get jobs for the color of their skin....and now Gays get jobs for where they put their privates....and now some have passed laws making it a crime to bully someone if they are gay.....LOL Yea this is a america I want my kids to be proud of...... I SAY IT'S TIME TO BRING BACK THE BASHING'S

It is also a collection of people who don't know the difference between a genetive and a plural.

#468

Posted by: キャロル AKA kiyaroru Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:04 PM

When I read this

When it's cold, dress appropriately.
it reminded me of "feed the homeless to the hungry".
My google-fu is weak. Does anyone know of the real&trade origin?

#469

Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space, OM, Death's Wellness Consultant Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:04 PM

Caine,

I've reached a conclusion that there are some ideas and philosophies that not only attract stupid people--they actively make you stupider. Xtianity. Libertarianism. Soviet Communism. Probably having a Y chromosome, too--but I digress.

I think what happens is that these ideas are so fucking wrong that people wind up devoting about 70% of their brain power to suppressing the cognitive dissonance. These ideas actually inhibit peoples' ability to learn. This goes beyond Dunning-Kruger. D-K was ultimately pretty optimistic, since it found that people could recognize their incompetence if they were trained. Not so, xtians, libertarians... Frankly, I think it's the only way to explain Conservipedia.

#470

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:05 PM

I'm ashamed to bring my son in a country where I cannot legally oppress and murder people! Isn't this what America was all about!? Where in this world is a place for racist, voilent thugs like me to raise my boys in the traditional Spewish uupbringing!?

I'm calling Poe

#471

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:05 PM

This sort of pretentious crap is the main reason I fired my agent decades ago and refuse to attend my gallery shows. Dipshits spouting crap about art abound and it is incredibly painful listening to them go on and on, acting like they know what they're talking about.

This!

Listening to art critics yammer on about the deep meaning of knitted art is one of the most infuriating things I've ever heard. Generally it's totally obvious that the critic has never touched knitting needles or produced art. (Let's just say that Lacanian psychoanalysis came into the discussion, and the idea of the continuity of the knitted fabric while it also contains loops and holes.)

IMO, this is an even bigger problem on the craft side of art than on more traditional stuff. I once read a book about Navajo weaving which went on and on about the artist's use of non-traditional materials, and particularly plant matter. They seemed to think that the weaver went out of her way to find a burr or grass seed to include at particular points in the weaving. I think it's actually more interesting, artistically, for the weaver to accept the imperfections of the carding and spinning process and leave that bit of stuff in the weaving than to go out and seek burrs to put in one's rug, but the art critic writing the book seriously seemed to think that the stray stuff was a deliberate decision. When I've told this example to Navajo weavers I know, they totally crack up at the pretentiousness of art critics. Also happens with the quilters of Gee Bend, who, I'm pretty confident, do not deliberately plan out their asymmetrical and fantastic designs.

/rant

I would not pounce on a poet on Pharyngula, but might ask if the poster wanted criticism and ask them to contact me off list. This is not really an A-for-effort thing so much as a desire to respect the courage it may have taken to post the poem in the first place and not to look like a total savage meanie myself.

#472

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:06 PM

You must realize how contradictory that is.

Inhumane social roles? Gender performance is one set of them.

Human beings live in human cultures. We've evolved to do this. Everything about art is social. That's not authoritarian. To suggest that artists are lone geniuses giving expression to their inner fire is to perpetuate a stupid, sexist, Western myth.

They needn't be geniuses. The fire might be no more than a single paper match. And I don't suppose that the fire wasn't lit by society, but that doesn't mean social influences are the only fuel. If pressed, I might point to the individual's endocrine system, which functions instinctively sometimes. I would guess that some art is produced only as a feedback loop of feeling; and this may be self-serving, but, if I can't dance...

#473

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:08 PM

Gyeong:

Caine, I'll one up you.

Ugh. There's a reason people call Yahoo Answers the black hole of stupidity.

a_ray:

I think what happens is that these ideas are so fucking wrong that people wind up devoting about 70% of their brain power to suppressing the cognitive dissonance. These ideas actually inhibit peoples' ability to learn.

I think that's a damn good theory. It explains a lot.

#474

Posted by: Rey Fox, Death of the Party Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:09 PM

We call those people "Bat Squeaking Insane" or mroe politely "suffering from an obsessive disorder"

It is true, however, that the first and foremost reason that one should do art of any kind is for one's self and one's own enjoyment. So I don't know if I'd call it insane. Eccentric, sure, but not necessarily harmful.

#475

Posted by: Jadehawk Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:11 PM

What if kyle's some quasi-suicidal Sylvia-Plath-fanboi teen trainwreck or something who plays Sarah McLachlan (who, incidentally, I hate) all night long in hir room burning candles and incense and writing therapeutic bad poetry?
because those already assume their poetry sucks as much as everything else in their lives, and wouldn't show it to a bunch of strangers if their lives depended on it. only special people get to see that, because the rest of us clearly doesn't understand.
#476

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:13 PM

We call those people "Bat Squeaking Insane" or mroe politely "suffering from an obsessive disorder"

Not a good example

But why is it not a good example? I am arguing against the legitimacy of social demands upon art. I am not suggesting that freeing one's self from such demands produces what you'd call "good" art.

#477

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:13 PM

Some skillful artists produce art and then burn it before anyone else experiences it. I do not understand this, but it suggests to me that art is not fully contained by the social.

We call those people "Bat Squeaking Insane" or mroe politely "suffering from an obsessive disorder"

Not fair - I can totally understand creating art and then destroying it. It's about the transience, hidden-ness, and pleasure of the creative process.

(Why yes, I've done this, why do you ask? And no, I'm not Bat Squeaking Insane, I'm only Minorly Odd.)

#478

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:15 PM

Ok risk of embarassment, it seems like Thad has been argueing that people forced into prostitution and who are trafficked may WANT that or may be responsible for their situation and that the idea of saving them is wrong.

I have a hunch he is misusing Kempadoo's views on prostitutes rights to associate it with people who are enslaved and thus by coercion discouraged from being free agents. Can someone with more social studies understanding sanity check this for me?

Cause it STILL looks like he's talking down to the "silly women who think they're victimized"

#479

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:15 PM

Inhumane social roles? Gender performance is one set of them.

Bad is not inhumane. (And you've yet to show that art criticism is bad.)

They needn't be geniuses. The fire might be no more than a single paper match. And I don't suppose that the fire wasn't lit by society, but that doesn't mean social influences are the only fuel. If pressed, I might point to the individual's endocrine system, which functions instinctively sometimes. I would guess that some art is produced only as a feedback loop of feeling; and this may be self-serving,

What is this blather?

but, if I can't dance...

...don't post a dance video on the internet and expect it not to be criticized.

;D

#480

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:19 PM

MrFire,
Don't worry, I hate my fucking smartphone, too. I'm just grateful that I don't have fucking autocorrect.

Ing,
Goddamn, there are far too many of us getting injured from falls lately. I hope you're not seriously injured and I hope you can take it easy and pamper yourself a little bit.

Here art is being turned away from the service of artists' own purposes, toward some prevailing cultural demands.

Oh, fuck that. We're not talking about an unappreciated visionary here, we're talking about someone who posted a poorly thought out, poorly constructed mess of a meaningless poem in a public forum.

By that logic, anything goes. There's no point to studying literature because we cannot judge what's good vs the truly awful without becoming petty authoritarians. I don't want to live in a world where all "art" is accepted as because people appreciate the effort and nothing else.

I'm watching the original True Grit right now. Holy shit, this movie sucks. Oh wait, should I not criticize it 'cos I might hurt someone's widdle feewings and stifle their precious creativity?

#481

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:19 PM

Because careers in art are completely independent of society otherwise. What planet are you on?

That simply does not follow from what I said. I gave one reason -- paying the bills -- why it might not be a good idea. I did not claim it was the only reason.

#482

Posted by: Jadehawk Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:23 PM

Some skillful artists produce art and then burn it before anyone else experiences it. I do not understand this, but it suggests to me that art is not fully contained by the social.
and had kyle burned his poem, no one would have criticised it either.

yes, there's art that isn't shared; and then there's art that one shares, and unless this is a romantic moment of soppy love and friendship, they're criticizable.

Shitty art on public display is a tragedy

#483

Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space, OM, Death's Wellness Consultant Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:25 PM

Mattir@477

Burning Man for instance.

#484

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:26 PM

I'm calling Poe

Can't tell with Yahoo.

I have yet to see an atheist or agnostic passing out tracts, etc. I guess they don't feel very comforted by their beliefs, or motivated to share!

But when atheist and agnostics do, you scream oppression. There's no satisfying you people.

Of course, FSTDT also have fundies themselves:

Cyborgtroy, you can't be good. In God's eyes, we're just disposable refuse fit to be consigned to the eternal compost heap (gehenna) and burned. However, we can be redeemed and sanctified (made holy) in Jesus.

The Catholic saint quoted earlier is incorrect. That's a Catholic teaching, not a Biblical teaching. Christians are in NO danger of going to hell. Once you give your life to Christ, you are sealed and saved for eternity.

It seems to me, fundies hate themselves a lot. I mean, to call yourself trash. Geez.

#485

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:27 PM

Rey Fox:

Eccentric, sure, but not necessarily harmful.

True. I've destroyed my own stuff (or recycled it, artistically speaking) because I'm the one who knows what it is I'm going for. Things don't always work out the way you think they will. :shrug: It's not as every single piece is some sort of sacred thing which can't be touched or 'harmed' once it reaches a certain point.

It's really no one else's business what I do with one of my pieces - I might sell it, I might keep it, I might destroy it. Generally, I've found that the people who are shocked by an artist destroying a piece are non-artists.

#486

Posted by: Algernon Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:28 PM

I hate that Walton is sad.

#487

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:28 PM

Opps, I forgot the link and the creationist class seems to have failed:

http://www.fstdt.com/QuoteComment.aspx?QID=65895

#488

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:30 PM

There's nothing wrong with being argumentatively feeble, either.

Nor with inability to see points.

#489

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:30 PM

That simply does not follow from what I said. I gave one reason -- paying the bills -- why it might not be a good idea. I did not claim it was the only reason.

But of course it isn't. The whole line of reasoning is bizarrely abstract. A career in art couldn't possibly be independent in that way. It's a myth. Artistic careers are social from start to finish. I mean, for a start, Art Worlds?

#490

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:31 PM

Jadehawk:

Shitty art on public display is a tragedy

That's the truth.

#491

Posted by: Angel Kaida Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:31 PM

I hate when I am sitting here trying to catch up on the Threads and suddenly WTF fucking Kanine Krunchies is stuck in my goddamn head. WTF.

#492

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:33 PM

Gyeong,

I'm calling Poe
Can't tell with Yahoo.

Great.

You just reiterated what you quoted in the guise of criticism.

I might've thought it wry did I not suspect you didn't realise what you did there.

#493

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:35 PM

@Ing - no, Thaddeus is arguing that the "victims of trafficking" narrative is as problematic as the "brave fight against cancer" narrative - the narrative formula obscures the actual experience of the people whose story is being told. (A similar situation exists with the way FGM is discussed in the West, which drives many African anti-FGM feminists crazy - will find citation if desired.)

Criticizing the use of the victim narrative by anti-trafficking activists does not mean that the critic thinks that trafficking is a good thing, just that the use of the word victim limits recognition of the entire range of experiences of those who are trafficked.

#494

Posted by: Jadehawk Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:35 PM

Someone said they were told not to use the pen, and they did anyway, and nothing happened. That does not support your assertion of a ban. In a Bayesian sense, it is evidence against your assertion.
wut. no one said that anywhere in the thread, this is what you responded to:
My favourite cock-up along those lines was when a bunch of schools banned teachers from using red ink for corrections and grading, 'cause a psychologist said it was really, really bad for kids...red is an angry colour, doncha know?
#495

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:36 PM

GO BACK TO ROME, MISTER.

Thank you sir, may I have another.

#496

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:39 PM

Augh! Too many people falling this winter.
When my company compiles yearly statistics on accidents and near misses, one of the major problems is ice/snow removal, and the falls resulting therefrom. But, since there are plants in both Dah US and European snow belts, it just can't be avoided. Minimized, but not avoided.
#497

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:39 PM

Bad is not inhumane.

My usage of humane revolves around compassion and liberation. Gender performance is both bad and inhumane.

(And you've yet to show that art criticism is bad.)

I don't need to show that a particular police organization is bad in order to say it should be presumed illegitimate rather than presumed legitimate.

Social demands, like batons, can and often do induce suffering. In some cases they can be demonstrated to be legitimate. But I think we are more likely to err humanely when we presume them illegitimate until demonstrated legitimate, rather than presuming them legitimate until demonstrated illegitimate.

What is this blather?

It is a response to:

Human beings live in human cultures. We've evolved to do this. Everything about art is social. That's not authoritarian. To suggest that artists are lone geniuses giving expression to their inner fire is to perpetuate a stupid, sexist, Western myth.


...don't post a dance video on the internet and expect it not to be criticized.

I wouldn't, but the criticism isn't what determines the worth of the activity.

#498

Posted by: triskelethecat Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:39 PM

@Jade Hawk and David M (too late and too much wine to fully spell): I hate snow because it makes the roads too slippery to ride my motorcycle. I hate winter because I hate being cold when I ride my motorcycle. I hate all the extra gear I have to wear to ride my motorcycle - I feel like the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. I hate that I can't put 500 miles on the motorcycle on a weekend day because it's too freaking cold to ride for that long. I hate suffering from parked motorcycle syndrome. I hate the fact it's snowing again now, may snow more tomorrow, Tuesday, Wednesday...

I hate being miserable...

#499

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:43 PM

Jadehawk:

My favourite cock-up along those lines was when a bunch of schools banned
The red pen crap: Was told to do that on my volunteer stint. I ignored it, and continued to use red pen. No one said a word.

Has any teacher been disciplined for using a red pen? If not, then this is strong evidence against a ban. (It may instead be a sort of soft authoritarianism, though.)

#500

Posted by: Feynmaniac, Chimerical Toad Superhero Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:44 PM

To suggest that artists are lone geniuses giving expression to their inner fire is to perpetuate a stupid, sexist, Western myth.

I can see how it's stupid and Western, but how is it sexist? Is it because the (supposed) lone genius is almost always male?

#501

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:46 PM

John,

of course I knew what I did. . .

runs to the LOVE thread

#502

Posted by: Jadehawk Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:50 PM

Jadehawk:
oooh, so you quoted the wrong part, hence the confusion of everybody who was reading/responding to that post of yours.

got it :-)

#503

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:51 PM

I can see how it's stupid and Western, but how is it sexist? Is it because the (supposed) lone genius is almost always male?

Lone geniuses are, by definition, male, because only a Very Very Bad And Unusually Lucky Woman™ would have the freedom from social obligations to pursue the Inner Fire of their Lone Genius. (See Virginia Woolf's A Room of One's Own.)

The thing that drives me crazy about this myth is that it promotes originality while devaluing skill, and thus loses the originality that can arise from the intimacy an artist may form with particular materials as their skills develop. Plus it sets up the whole craft versus art dichotomy, which has pretty sexist consequences, because the craft stuff tends to be done more by females.

Grrrrr.

#504

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:55 PM

My usage of humane revolves around compassion and liberation. Gender performance is both bad and inhumane.

Look, you can make a serious (if odd and reaching and annoying on the hate thread) argument about compassion in this case. It has fuck-all to do with liberation. You're implying that social roles per se are inhumane, and in any case what criticizing some anonymous person's poem posted on the internet has to do with social roles I have no idea.

I don't need to show that a particular police organization is bad in order to say it should be presumed illegitimate rather than presumed legitimate.

Are you joking? People on the internet saying a poem is bad are a police organization? Where's my cyberpistol?

Social demands, like batons, can and often do induce suffering.

What are you talking about? No one made any serious demands of kyle.

It is a response to:

And it's still blather.

I wouldn't, but the criticism isn't what determines the worth of the activity.

Do you understand the difference between the two meanings of "can't" there? Shockingly, it appears you don't.

But I'll say it again: To the extent that the worth of the activity is intrinsic, criticism is irrelevant. You can't have it both ways.

#505

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:56 PM

Is it because the (supposed) lone genius is almost always male?

That but much more. There is also a hierarchy of art where folk art/decorative art (often done by women in Western culture) is precieved as inferior to the so-called fine arts (high class art or whatever term it is). (Nevermind that women were often barred from the fine arts). The same criticism can be made for the designation of primitive art as being intellectually inferior to fine arts.

#506

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 9:59 PM

Oh, fuck that. We're not talking about an unappreciated visionary here, we're talking about someone who posted a poorly thought out, poorly constructed mess of a meaningless poem in a public forum.

By that logic, anything goes. There's no point to studying literature because we cannot judge what's good vs the truly awful without becoming petty authoritarians. I don't want to live in a world where all "art" is accepted as because people appreciate the effort and nothing else.

This suggests to me I should clarify again. I'm not saying you should like or dislike any art. I'm not even saying that nothing useful or meaningful can be said about art. But I do suspect that cultural standards of art probably conserve the dominant social structure.

I'm not exactly the paradigm of anti-authoritarianism. If the dominant social structure was fairly humane already, I might support some of this policing of art. But even then, I would maintain that the burden of proof falls upon the cops to show their authority is both humane, and I don't think "[otherwise] you're advocating mediocrity" has any obvious relation to humane outcomes.

I'm hearing a lot of we must do this or everything will be terrible, just terrible. But I'm not seeing much evidence for that assertion. Does not the desire to produce one's visions reliably, without constant frustration, drive the development of skill?

#507

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:01 PM

only a Very Very Bad And Unusually Lucky Woman™ would have the freedom from social obligations to pursue the Inner Fire of their Lone Genius.

Yep. Lone genius females are always considered to be extremely odd or quirky, to say the least, and always subject to a great deal of speculation. Back in the days when I did attend my shows, I would get the weirdest damn questions from people (when they weren't busy telling me what my art meant). There was always the big surprise on the part of many people (mostly men) on discovering I was female. Things often got rather unpleasant and nasty at that point.

#508

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:01 PM

Criticizing the use of the victim narrative by anti-trafficking activists does not mean that the critic thinks that trafficking is a good thing, just that the use of the word victim limits recognition of the entire range of experiences of those who are trafficked.

That's....what.

If someone is victimized they are a victim. It is not the sum total of what they are but it is one category they fall under.

Someone who was mugged is a victim. I....what's the point?

#509

Posted by: Benjamin "insert clever nickname here" Geiger Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:01 PM

MrFire:

ROMANES EUNT DOMUS!

#510

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:01 PM

strike "both" in 506.

#511

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, fly like Pikachu's G6 Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:02 PM

Ninja'd by Mattir

shakes fists

#512

Posted by: Jadehawk Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:05 PM

Does not the desire to produce one's visions reliably, without constant frustration, drive the development of skill?
you assume a person is fully capable of seeing the mistakes they're making that make a piece of work feel like a failure. And sometimes it takes nudging (or a slap over the head) to even become aware of there being a failure.

Artists don't necessarily go into the process with a fully formed piece of art in their head that they try to the recreate physically (and even when they sometimes do, the clarity and expressiveness of what's in your head can also sometimes be improved for one's own personal benefit)

#513

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:05 PM

Dammit SGBM, you ruined my entrance! I was gonna scream through a bullhorn at Jadehawk so loud her hair would be blown back! *sulks*

(It's the hate thread. I think a little sulking over missed bullhorn moments is not out of place with the general mood.)

#514

Posted by: Orange Utan, Librarian of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:06 PM

we're talking about someone who posted a poorly thought out, poorly constructed mess of a meaningless poem in a public forum.

Maybe the state forced him to post in which case we have no fucking rights to opine on it.

</sarc>

#515

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:10 PM

I can see how it's stupid and Western, but how is it sexist? Is it because the (supposed) lone genius is almost always male?

This is the classic work on the subject (spawning many others). Much more has been written about the process of becoming an artist and how certain groups have been discouraged and/or excluded along the way. Which, happily, is changing.

#516

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:11 PM

I don't want to live in a world where all "art" is accepted as because people appreciate the effort and nothing else.

Also, I'm not suggesting that "appreciating the effort" should be presumed legitimate either. I suspect this request, taken for granted often enough, would also produce a soft authoritarianism. (The exposure to which might explain Caine's anger.)

#517

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:12 PM

Jadehawk:

And sometimes it takes nudging (or a slap over the head) to even become aware of there being a failure.

Yep. I actively seek out criticism on my work. When it's art, I ask for a critique at different times. When it comes to photography, well, that's why I post different works to PhotoSig. It's a site set up for critique. I've had good critiques and I've had some that were very harsh. As hard as it can be to take, the harsh ones are the ones that help me.

Accolades are very nice, and they are definitely warm, fuzzy and encouraging, however, they don't help you see objectively or to learn and grow.

#518

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:18 PM

@Ing - Yes, but the victim narrative can (and often does" become very confining, to the point that the wishes of the (dare I say) victim become invisible. It's not a pro-trafficking argument, it's a "let the trafficked people speak for themselves more and perhaps do what they ask" argument.

If you're familiar with Autism Speaks, think of the "Autism would speak if the board of Autism Speaks would ever shut up" criticism. This is the same sort of argument.

#519

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:20 PM

ROMANES EUNT DOMUS!

Thank you sir, Hail Caesar.

#520

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:23 PM

This suggests to me I should clarify again. I'm not saying you should like or dislike any art.

You're just saying keep it to yourself.

But I do suspect that cultural standards of art probably conserve the dominant social structure.

They vary, and not every criticism represents the dominant standards. But even if this were entirely so, it wouldn't mean that no art just sucks and warrants criticism.

I'm not exactly the paradigm of anti-authoritarianism. If the dominant social structure was fairly humane already, I might support some of this policing of art.

There has been no policing of art. Don't be ridiculous.

I'm hearing a lot of we must do this or everything will be terrible, just terrible.

I don't know where.

Does not the desire to produce one's visions reliably, without constant frustration, drive the development of skill?

[Leaving aside the strange and unfounded reference to "constant frustration"...] No. It might drive the desire to develop skills (to produce one's visions, which are socially shaped), but not the development of skill.

#521

Posted by: KOPD Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:25 PM

Snow cost me over $400 in damage to my car when my old car with its bad tires absolutely refused to stop sliding downhill through an intersection in Kansas City a few years ago. Luckily I just missed the pedestrians and all the other cars. Fuck snow!

#522

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:28 PM

sgbm:

If the dominant social structure was fairly humane already, I might support some of this policing of art.

For shit's sake, really? Nobody here is talking about "policing" art. Nobody here is advocating silencing of public expression.

If you view legitimate criticism (and yes, CJO's response to kyle's poem was legitimate) as an act of silencing, then my point still stands-- any mediocre piece of shit will be celebrated as great, because there won't be anyone to say otherwise.

Attempting to silence the critics also sounds distinctly authoritarian, strangegods. Hey look, I can play this game too! I'll just take anything I feel is unfair and use specific, nonsensical trigger words to muddy my point!

Criticism is often harsh, that doesn't mean that it's dehumanizing or inhumane. It also doesn't mean that it reinforces societal norms or whatever the fuck you're going on about. The written word is pretty easy to deal with in this regard-- along the lines of what Jules was saying earlier, if you aren't understandable, then your shit probably isn't very good. It's got nothing to do with societal norms, unless you are railing against language as well.

#523

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:35 PM

and had kyle burned his poem, no one would have criticised it either.

yes, there's art that isn't shared; and then there's art that one shares, and unless this is a romantic moment of soppy love and friendship, they're criticizable.

They certainly are criticizable. The criticism can still drive humans in a certain direction. The burden of proof is on the critics to show that their direction is the most humane. The mere fact that "it's public and therefore we can criticize it" does not mean that the currently dominant social demands upon are humane demands.

Shitty art on public display is a tragedy

Even if this is presumed to be true, it does not follow that what we now determine to be shitty is the best possible determination of shittiness.

I've destroyed my own stuff (or recycled it, artistically speaking) because I'm the one who knows what it is I'm going for. Things don't always work out the way you think they will.

So in this case, it was indeed your own desire to produce your visions which drove your development of skill. You avoided mediocrity without social pressure.

But of course it isn't. The whole line of reasoning is bizarrely abstract. A career in art couldn't possibly be independent in that way. It's a myth. Artistic careers are social from start to finish. I mean, for a start, Art Worlds?

SC, I didn't mean to suggest that any of my argument constitutes advice for artists. I'm sorry for contributing to that misunderstanding.

Thank you sir, may I have another.

You may have a carrot: Haidt's elevation applies to this whole conversation as regards artistic elevation rather than moral elevation (to the degree they are separate). It is an alternative to the stick of criticism, as a separate driver toward skill and beauty.

#524

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:41 PM

@Mattir

But since victims of human trafficking can't speak by definition you would need survivors to speak...

And what flipping bearing does that have on the topic at hand? Or am I surprised that he ignored what people were actually saying and going off arguing against some point a windmill somewhere made?

#525

Posted by: Jadehawk Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:45 PM

Even if this is presumed to be true, it does not follow that what we now determine to be shitty is the best possible determination of shittiness.
who is "we"?

and what's with the "cultural dominant" blah blah? is CJO now THE authority on art?

and what the fuck is humane criticism?

#526

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:48 PM

Also, why hasn't my criticism of music been commented on?

I hate Kanye West's latest album. Fuck it, I hate 808's & Heartbreak, too. I hate autotune and wish that it would die.

Or my snark about True Grit:

I'm watching the original True Grit right now. Holy shit, this movie sucks.

Am I allowed to criticize popular culture, but not an anonymous poem that was posted on a blog? WHY DON'T YOU CARE ABOUT YE'S FEELINGS, SGBM?

#527

Posted by: Benjamin "insert clever nickname here" Geiger Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:51 PM

Ing:

They don't have to be dead to be victims. They're victims from the moment they're kidnapped. (And some manage to escape.)

#528

Posted by: Algernon Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:53 PM

I wrote a poem today too.

#529

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:56 PM

@Ben

Yeah I know....That's what I said.

#530

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:57 PM

The criticism can still drive humans in a certain direction.

And it might be a good direction artistically (which I presume the critic thinks it would be), or a bad one. Or they might choose to dismiss it.

The burden of proof is on the critics to show that their direction is the most humane.

There's no such burden. What are you talking about?

The mere fact that "it's public and therefore we can criticize it" does not mean that the currently dominant social demands upon are humane demands.

There are no demands. I don't know what you're on about. Where are these demands? Where is this policing?

***

Won't someone think of Dave Matthews?

#531

Posted by: cicely, Eccentric Firefly Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 10:59 PM

Some skillful artists produce art and then burn it before anyone else experiences it. I do not understand this, but it suggests to me that art is not fully contained by the social.

If the point of art is communication, then this sounds like talking to yourself; maybe to help you clarify your own thoughts/feelings?

Then again, I've been known to draw things, even paint them, just so that my frickin' head will stop obsessively working and re-working them; more like a purging, I guess.
-

We call those people "Bat Squeaking Insane" or mroe politely "suffering from an obsessive disorder"


Not a good example

*bowing* Thank you, thank you! You are too kind!
-

So I don't know if I'd call it insane. Eccentric, sure, but not necessarily harmful.

See! "Not harmful!" I am a beeyootiful, eccentric firefly! *wanders off following the Voices*
-

Not fair - I can totally understand creating art and then destroying it. It's about the transience, hidden-ness, and pleasure of the creative process.

And about being able to get a good night's sleep, once the pretty images have been banished.
-

Once you give your life to Christ, you are sealed and saved for eternity.

And notice the implicit cop-out; once you "give your life to Christ", you can do whatever you want, and still be saved for eternity! Oh, they might claim that "giving your life to Christ" means living thereafter in a sinless fashion, but that's not what actions necessarily suggest.

It seems to me, fundies hate themselves a lot. I mean, to call yourself trash. Geez.

But they're a better quality trash than the rest of us. That's what's important.
-

#532

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:00 PM

Lone geniuses are, by definition, male, because only a Very Very Bad And Unusually Lucky Woman™ would have the freedom from social obligations to pursue the Inner Fire of their Lone Genius. (See Virginia Woolf's A Room of One's Own.)

The thing that drives me crazy about this myth is that it promotes originality while devaluing skill, and thus loses the originality that can arise from the intimacy an artist may form with particular materials as their skills develop. Plus it sets up the whole craft versus art dichotomy, which has pretty sexist consequences, because the craft stuff tends to be done more by females.

These are all great points, and I am not advocating any lone genius theory of value. For the reasons you articulate, the lone genius thing is also a soft authoritarianism, and one without humane outcomes.


Look, you can make a serious (if odd and reaching and annoying on the hate thread)

If it's inspiring artists to hate me, then it probably fits. :)

It has fuck-all to do with liberation. You're implying that social roles per se are inhumane,

No, I'm saying they should be presumed inhumane until demonstrated otherwise, just like the five oh.

and in any case what criticizing some anonymous person's poem posted on the internet has to do with social roles I have no idea.

There are no social roles attached to the notion of artist?

Are you joking? People on the internet saying a poem is bad are a police organization? Where's my cyberpistol?

No! A police organization is hard authoritarianism! That refers back to my comparison at #431. I'm just suggesting the illegitimacy of soft authoritarianism, including art criticism, should be similarly presumed:

"Anarchism, in my view, is an expression of the idea that the burden of proof is always on those who argue that authority and domination are necessary. They have to demonstrate, with powerful argument, that that conclusion is correct. If they cannot, then the institutions they defend should be considered illegitimate. How one should react to illegitimate authority depends on circumstances and conditions: there are no formulas.

In the present period, the issues arise across the board, as they commonly do: from personal relations in the family and elsewhere, to the international political/economic order. And anarchist ideas -- challenging authority and insisting that it justify itself -- are appropriate at all levels."


What are you talking about? No one made any serious demands of kyle.

There is always at all times an implicit demand of conformity to others' expectations. That is what it means to be social apes. That is the blood of the conservative superorganism.

Do you understand the difference between the two meanings of "can't" there? Shockingly, it appears you don't.

What "can't"?

But I'll say it again: To the extent that the worth of the activity is intrinsic, criticism is irrelevant. You can't have it both ways.

Well, yes, the criticism is irrelevant the worth of the activity. That doesn't mean the criticism can't drive inhumane outcomes, serving abstractions and ghosts at the expense of human lives.

#533

Posted by: Jadehawk Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:03 PM

Won't someone think of Dave Matthews?
I loled
#534

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:05 PM

Won't someone think of Dave Matthews?

That's it, argument over. SC just won. :D

#535

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:09 PM

Won't someone think of Dave Matthews?

Oh, controversial!

+1

#536

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:23 PM

@Ing - The issue is whether the anti-trafficking movement is directed by people who have survived trafficking or by well-meaning outsiders. It's not that only the people who are trafficked and isolated may speak, it's an insider/outsider definition question. Does the art critic or the Navajo weaver get to define the weaving? Does the person who was raped or the family of that person get to say what s/he needs and when things should return to normal? Does the homeless person or the social worker get to set the priorities for the social service delivery system?

A person who has experienced trafficking and been freed might (and probably will) have very different ideas about what s/he needs and about what will help the people who haven't yet been freed. (Also, it occurs to me that a lot of anti-trafficking activism is perilously associated with the Christian right. I would not them to be the ones setting humanitarian priorities for me - would you?)

#537

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:35 PM

Honestly, I would feel kind of bad if it were a kid. (On the other hand, my English teacher when I was 14 said I was a gifted poet, which I found encouraging and always remembered...but in retrospect I would've preferred substantive criticism.) Anyway, I'm glad heddle's son was so impressive.

See! "Not harmful!" I am a beeyootiful, eccentric firefly! *wanders off following the Voices*

:)

There is always at all times an implicit demand of conformity to others' expectations. That is what it means to be social apes. That is the blood of the conservative superorganism.

No, there isn't. Calling an aesthetic expression of opinion an "implicit demand" doesn't make it so - this is hyperbole. And there is no superorganism. There's just bad poetry.

What "can't"?

Party Leader: You may not dance./We frown upon dancing.

Random dance enthusiast watching video: Wow, she can't dance! Did you see those pitiful jetés?

See the difference?

Well, yes, the criticism is irrelevant the worth of the activity.

Depends on the artist.

That doesn't mean the criticism can't drive inhumane outcomes, serving abstractions and ghosts at the expense of human lives.

I...wow.

#538

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:39 PM

"Anarchism, in my view, is an expression of the idea that the burden of proof is always on those who argue that authority and domination are necessary.

Dude, mocking a poem on the internet is not authority or domination.

#539

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:41 PM

#423 Sven DiMilo jeez. are you drunk?

then, no.
now, uh, yep.

also stoned agin


why?


(fuck, blew the flounce)
(so sue me)

#540

Posted by: cicely, Eccentric Firefly Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:42 PM

"People called Romanes they go the house?"
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#542

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:43 PM

serving abstractions and ghosts

Pure Cupcakery.

#543

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:49 PM

Honestly, I would feel kind of bad if it were a kid.

thanks

I'm glad heddle's son was so impressive.

me too, man.

How weird, in a way.


It's a fucked-up life in a fucked-up world.

#544

Posted by: cicely, Eccentric Firefly Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:49 PM

So, essentially: If an artist paints a picture of a bear in the woods, but the bear mauls him to death and no-one else ever sees it, is it art?
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#545

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:54 PM

You may have a carrot: Haidt's elevation applies to this whole conversation as regards artistic elevation rather than moral elevation (to the degree they are separate). It is an alternative to the stick of criticism, as a separate driver toward skill and beauty.

Thanks, this time minus the sophomoric tack-on.

Would The Happiness Hypothesis be a reasonable place to look more deeply into it? I feel like you may have made a point of this on a previous occasion, so, my apologies in advance.

To cheapen your point with a reference to tvtropes: if I've glimpsed its meaning correctly, elevation is similar to the feeling I get when witnessing various sub-categories of the Heroic Sacrifice.

#546

Posted by: KOPD Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:57 PM

If an artist paints a picture of a bear in the woods, but the bear mauls him to death and no-one else ever sees it, is it art?
Did the artist get mauled by the painting, or the subject of the painting? One of those has potential for much awesome.
#547

Posted by: cicely, Eccentric Firefly Author Profile Page | January 28, 2011 11:59 PM

Now with Extra Ambiguity!

:)

#548

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:00 AM

So, essentially: If an artist paints a picture of a bear in the woods, but the bear mauls him to death and no-one else ever sees it, is it art?

But what if mauling the artist is the bear's artwork?

#549

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:03 AM

OK. I haven't read Teh Hate Thread, and I'm just gonna jump in like a bull in a china shop. So fuck y'all for hat'in. :)))

I hate Walmart. And I hate the white trash that shops there. Why am I there, you might ask? It's the only place that sells blood-glucose testing strips that I can actually afford, otherwise I'd avoid that swamp like the plague.

I hate the artful disorganization of the merchandise that compels me to traverse the whole thing in order to get more than one item.

I hate the oversized families - four, five, and six children with a couple no more than 22 years old - that clog up the aisles. WTF, have you people never heard of condoms? Srsly. You can barely afford to buy groceries for the household, but you willingly saddled yourself with four kids before age 25, on a salary that would be strained to support a couple? (No, don't tell me not to judge. I will judge all I want. There's no good reason for that.)

I hate the lolly-gagging people who stand in the aisles, having bumped into their friends (all in Carhardt jackets, or wearing tight jeans that show their bidness) and thinking that "going out to WalMart" is a social occasion. May I please move past you?

I hate the sullen cashiers who seem to deliberately scan items as slowly as possible. When I stack up the same kinds of cat foods in neat order, you're able to grab all six of them and hit @qty, 6. You don't have to lazily scan each can, chonk on your gum, drag the next can over, chonk on your gum, deliberately avoid eye-contact with me, and generally stretch the whole fucking thing out to five minutes when it could take 45 seconds. Hell, I used to be a cashier, and I wanted you out of my line as quickly as possible. Why don't you?

Ugh.

#550

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:04 AM

Did someone say bears and art in the same sentence?

NSFW Regretsy Link that you should really really click on...

#552

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:08 AM

ODS, that qualifies as vicious. A person can get terribly lost there, ya know.

I haven't been inside a walmart in over 10 years now. Don't miss it in the least.

#553

Posted by: cicely, Eccentric Firefly Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:08 AM

Then we also have to ask, "If the artist's mauled body is never seen, is it art?"

Hmmm... A side question: if the bear's art is not the body, but the mauling (i.e., a performance piece), and there's neither audience nor video recording, is it art? Or does it count as "practice"?
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#554

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:08 AM

Oh, FSM, I hate People of Walmart. It's like a giant episode of Let's Make Fun of Fat Poor People With Bad Taste. Let's let Josh make judge his Walmart patrons mostly by their behavior.

Why yes, a lot of people in POW look like my relatives. Don't go hating on my relatives.

#555

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:09 AM

Oh, FFS. It's not a kid, and he's written books of this stuff.

#556

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:11 AM

Oh, I know all about the People of Walmart site. It's all fun and games on the Internet, until a SpokesGay gets his eye virtually poked out by having to witness it in person.

Dreadful, awful people.

#557

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:13 AM

Cicely:

Then we also have to ask, "If the artist's mauled body is never seen, is it art?"

Depends on the bear's POV.

Mattir:

It's like a giant episode of Let's Make Fun of Fat Poor People With Bad Taste.

I think that's more like it. A photo of a slender woman wandering around walmart wearing a T-shirt with "I love cock" on it, well...ripe for mocking.

I know a lot of people who do shop at walmart and one thing they aren't is poor. They might not be rich, but the amount of money they drop on vast amounts of walmart crap could feed several hungry families for at least a year.

#558

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:17 AM

Josh,
I'm glad you survived your ordeal. I haven't been in a Walmart in at least 5 years* and it sucks that you were pretty much forced to go there.

(Or maybe not, 'cos this is the Hate Thread!)

Mattir,
Sorry, but as far as I'm concerned that level of poor taste is fair game.

*My old roommate was a sucker for cheap shit and doing all of his shopping in one store. *sigh* Thankfully, he's developed taste and class since then.

#559

Posted by: cicely, Eccentric Firefly Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:18 AM

Mattir, I've seen that piece before. Sucked then, too.
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Don't hate me because I shop at WalMart....

On the @qty, 6 thing, they aren't supposed to do it that way; seems it buggers up the computerised inventory tracking.
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And now, my fuzzy little mistress is feeling insecure, and demands snuggles. Since I find it frustrating to type with only one hand (I don't get the kind of...practice...some of you guys get :P), I'll bid you all good day.
-

#560

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:19 AM

@Caine - yeah, I'd mock that. It's just that all the POW mockery I've seen has been directed at fat people - I've somehow missed the mockery of slender skanks with cameltoe problems and the like.

#561

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:19 AM

It's like a giant episode of Let's Make Fun of Fat Poor People With Bad Taste. Let's let Josh make judge his Walmart patrons mostly by their behavior.

Mattir, don't misunderstand me - I'm not about judging people because they're fat (not being a skiny-mini meself). But really, the People of Walmart . . .oy. I don't just judge them by their behavior, I judge them because they behave badly and they're a damned mess. I admit it - I can't stand it! Please, please, for the love of Pete, camel toe is never necessary. Wearing a baseball cap and sporting a Volunteer Fireman's Mustache™ over your big, not-working-brass-belt-buckle is never necessary. Dressing your 11-year-old girls in midriff-baring, show-your-ass-crack sweat pants is never necessary. Dressing your 11-year-old boys in pants-around-their-knees-boxers-hanging-out jeans is never necessary.

Yeah, some of this comes from having climbed my way out of my white trash background, and not wanting to go back there. And a lot of it comes from being disgusted by people who have no concept of carrying themselves with any dignity. That doesn't have to cost money.

#562

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:24 AM

And further in my defense - I'm a guy who buys most of his clothes at Goodwill, and got all of my furniture second-hand from Freecycle or scavenging. I'm way into frugality, recycling, and living within my means, no matter how modest. There's no pretense about it; I drive a 16-year-old Subaru that has more rust than sheet metal.

It's trashiness I can't stand, and that has nothing, necessarily, to do with how much money a household has to go around.

#563

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:24 AM

Mattir,
Go check out the last week or so of Walmart pics. I took a quick glance earlier today and it seemed like there were plenty of skinny people being mocked.

But, you know, whatev. You don't have to like the site. I might hate you for it, though.*

*Not really.

#564

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:25 AM

Josh:

And a lot of it comes from being disgusted by people who have no concept of carrying themselves with any dignity. That doesn't have to cost money.

Word. Coming from trash roots but wanting and working to be more than that is one thing, but most of the people who damn near inhabit walmart are proud of being trash and it shows. I know a few too many people like that, and they are also the people who a-ray was ranting about earlier.

#565

Posted by: John Morales Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:28 AM

slender skanks with cameltoe problems

Euphonious yet vivid.

#566

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:28 AM

On the subject of Goodwill shopping, driving an old car, etc. - a parent of one of SonSpawn's friends got upset at the idea that Mr. M claimed to be a lawyer because he drove a 1993 Honda Accord. No real lawyer would drive such a car, apparently.

One of the things I'm looking forward to about losing weight is that I'll be able to do more shopping at thrift stores...

I have no idea why I love Regretsy and hate People of Walmart. I guess I'm one of those inconsistent human people who burns their own art.

#567

Posted by: CJO Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:30 AM

Shitty art on public display is a tragedy

Even if this is presumed to be true, it does not follow that what we now determine to be shitty is the best possible determination of shittiness.

Somewhere around here is where the whole derail went screwy. Because nobody is denying that it's a shitty poem. There will never be a way of making a determination of what poetry is shitty that does not determine that the poem in question is shitty. That is, as long as we have a commonly agreed upon mode of expression called "poetry" that meets the basic criteria for the form as it has been practiced now at least since the earliest use of written language for purposes other than purely utilitarian communication.

Now, that has all taken place under a kind of soft authoritarianism, there's no doubt. But it seems to me, sgbm, that your objection is that basic, at the level of what is "a poem" anyway, but a conventional form agreed upon by authority figures in the context of this deeply fucked-up thing called human society? And I hear you. But whatever it is, that one sucks.

#568

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:30 AM

Never been in a Walmart. But I saw in the documentary Food, Inc. that they now carry only milk that is rBST-free.

I also heard that their floor materials now consist of only 100% organic recycled Indonesian person.

#569

Posted by: The Once And Future Janine, OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:35 AM

I just expressed my love for a band called The Throwing Muses on the LOVE thread. Now I feel the need to show some hate. The singer I hate most is Rod Stewart. As it stands, the music he has made in the last thirty years really is not as annoying to me as, say, Celine Dion or Dave Matthews.

The reason why I hate Rod Stewart more then the two I have named is simple, Rod Stewart betrayed his talent and his greatness. The Faces were a bloody great band and Stewart was part of the reason for that. His early solo records, when The Faces were his backing band (When they toured, The Faces did both Faces and Stewart songs.), were also great. But he lost or is ignoring what made him great. Which one, I do not know nor do I care.

Dion and Matthews never made anything that I love. The hate I have for them is common and rather meaningless. The hatred I have for Stewart feels like a betrayal.

Three Button Hand Me Down

Bad N Ruin

Cindy Incidentally

I'm Losing You

The fucker fell down so hard and shattered into a million pieces.

#570

Posted by: Part-Time Insomniac, Death's Zombie Pet Porcupine Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:35 AM

Cross-posted from Hate thread:

I'm gonna bow out. I can feel myself slowing down, plus I kind of want to keep my sleep cycle in check, even if next week's storm (WTF?!) means another screwed-up week.

#571

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:38 AM

Books! Whole books of that stuff!

#572

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:39 AM

The singer I hate most is Rod Stewart. As it stands, the music he has made in the last thirty years really is not as annoying to me as, say, Celine Dion or Dave Matthews.

Oh, I hate him too, First Fake Wife. Hate Celine Dion and Dave Matthews, too.

Funny you should mention Stewart. The first lesbian I met, when I was 11, loved Rod Stewart, so naturally I assumed all lesbians loved bad male vocalists. Ha!

#573

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:40 AM

you assume a person is fully capable of seeing the mistakes they're making that make a piece of work feel like a failure. And sometimes it takes nudging (or a slap over the head) to even become aware of there being a failure.

Artists don't necessarily go into the process with a fully formed piece of art in their head that they try to the recreate physically (and even when they sometimes do, the clarity and expressiveness of what's in your head can also sometimes be improved for one's own personal benefit)

Well, no, I don't assume that. I did say in the beginning that "Meeting the expectations of a competent teacher may assist one in improving one's skills, of course".

And I don't see why a "fully formed" idea is necessary for the art to serve the artist's purposes. I can see how the mental construction can itself be a skill to develop, yet, this would be worthwhile on its own, and the worth would not be determined by social demand.

What I have seen in this thread is an insistence that someone else's judgment determines the worth of art, yet I do not see justification for this assumption. Clearly art can be worthwhile for only the artist, in "the transience, hidden-ness, and pleasure of the creative process."

You're just saying keep it to yourself.

I'm not even saying that, necessarily. I'm saying that the judgment will be part of the milieu of soft authority, so we should first presume the judgment itself illegitimate, meaningless, worthless, a tragic affront to beauty, until demonstrated otherwise.

They vary, and not every criticism represents the dominant standards. But even if this were entirely so, it wouldn't mean that no art just sucks and warrants criticism.

I have said the criticism must be presumed illegitimate. I have not said it can never in any case be demonstrated to be legitimate. However, I see no one here actually trying to do that. Rather I see presumptions of competency and qualification to judge, presumptions which are indistinguishable from the authoritarian impulse.

I see aesthetic disgust being confused with objective value. And my objection to this sounds fundamentally wrong, doesn't it?

There has been no policing of art. Don't be ridiculous.

"Do this and not that" is policing; "don't fucking start a poem with 'and'" is policing, and somebody's may get hurt. I don't say don't ever swing the baton. I say let's be damned sure it must be swung.

I don't know where.

In "any mediocre piece of shit will be celebrated as great, because there won't be anyone to say otherwise", among other places.

[Leaving aside the strange and unfounded reference to "constant frustration"...]

Of course trying to produce something and failing is frustrating.

No. It might drive the desire to develop skills (to produce one's visions, which are socially shaped), but not the development of skill.

Okay, but a compelling desire to develop skills will drive the person to search for ways to develop those skills.

For shit's sake, really? Nobody here is talking about "policing" art. Nobody here is advocating silencing of public expression.

Except when they are: "Shitty art on public display is a tragedy"

If you view legitimate criticism (and yes, CJO's response to kyle's poem was legitimate) as an act of silencing, then my point still stands-- any mediocre piece of shit will be celebrated as great, because there won't be anyone to say otherwise.

Maybe. I doubt it, since admiration of others' work still functions as a carrot even when the stick is withheld. But if you're right, I don't see what this has to do with humane outcomes. It seems you are serving the ghost of greatness, rather than human needs.

Attempting to silence the critics also sounds distinctly authoritarian, strangegods.

Shit doesn't roll uphill.

Criticism is often harsh, that doesn't mean that it's dehumanizing or inhumane.

I didn't say it necessarily is. I said the criticism should be tuned toward humane outcomes. Criticism isn't necessarily humanizing or humane.

It also doesn't mean that it reinforces societal norms or whatever the fuck you're going on about.

Of course it does. Of course the ideas of what constitutes good art are tightly bound to normative moral judgments, and of course these are inherently conservative, as all norms are.

The written word is pretty easy to deal with in this regard-- along the lines of what Jules was saying earlier, if you aren't understandable, then your shit probably isn't very good.

How does this follow? Why is being understood by others the measure of worth?

It's got nothing to do with societal norms, unless you are railing against language as well.

I will, some other time. Too busy right now.

who is "we"?

Critics, all of us generally, who have some common directions of criticism.

and what's with the "cultural dominant" blah blah?

There are dominant strands of criticism that change over time, are there not?

is CJO now THE authority on art?

You tell me. I don't see any of the anti-mediocrity crowd disagreeing with CJO's analysis. It seems that CJO has struck into a dominant vein.

and what the fuck is humane criticism?

Criticism that produces a world with more compassion and more liberation. It is possible that certain standards of beauty might produce encourage humane outcomes, via elevation or other means. But this cannot be assumed by default.

Am I allowed to criticize popular culture, but not an anonymous poem that was posted on a blog? WHY DON'T YOU CARE ABOUT YE'S FEELINGS, SGBM?

I only have so much time! But your question about popular culture is a great one. Certainly the dominant ideas about what popular culture should be are major drivers of society, in moral ways besides aesthetics. This awareness is central to critical theory, is it not?

And it might be a good direction artistically (which I presume the critic thinks it would be), or a bad one. Or they might choose to dismiss it.

Yes, but the sum of criticism adds up to a general vector. It's harder to push against that vector than to go along with the path of least resistance. We should investigate what are our current paths of least resistance, and ask whether they serve humans, or whether they serve abstractions. Don't start a poem with "and" appears to serve a conservative standard for the standard's sake.

There's no such burden. What are you talking about?

If an action can cause harm, then there is a burden to justify that harm.

There are no demands. I don't know what you're on about. Where are these demands? Where is this policing?

Yeah, right. And gender roles aren't demands either.

If the point of art is communication

By whose authority is the point of art presumed to be communication?

Then again, I've been known to draw things, even paint them, just so that my frickin' head will stop obsessively working and re-working them; more like a purging, I guess.

Why isn't this an alternative "point", then?

No, there isn't.

No, there isn't always at all times an implicit demand of conformity to others' expectations? I dearly want to live in your universe.

Calling an aesthetic expression of opinion an "implicit demand" doesn't make it so - this is hyperbole.

We are social apes. We imitate. We learn culture. The culture shapes our selves. The culture pushes us in this direction rather than that one. The heck this isn't an implicit demand. Whatever you want to call it, it makes a person this and not that. I'm saying that even at the artistic level we need to investigate whether the pushes are going to produce humane outcomes.

And there is no superorganism. There's just bad poetry.

To the extent that, for instance, patriarchy hurts men too, what is the patriarchy? An institution is being served, at the expense of individuals. You don't have to call it a superorganism. I think it's useful to, but my argument needn't hinge upon this.

Party Leader: You may not dance./We frown upon dancing.

Look, you don't need a party leader to produce soft authoritarianism. There is no HMFIC defining gender roles. Yet they arise from our interactions, and they are implicit demands (often explicit too).

Dude, mocking a poem on the internet is not authority or domination.

If I'm crowing about gender roles, I'm carving out my space to live without others' domination. But if I'm crowing about how I don't like somebody's hair, it's dominance all the way. Talking shit, including behind somebody's back, without justification, is dominance.

Shit doesn't roll uphill. But it does roll.

So, essentially: If an artist paints a picture of a bear in the woods, but the bear mauls him to death and no-one else ever sees it, is it art?

:D

I don't presume to know.

Would The Happiness Hypothesis be a reasonable place to look more deeply into it? I feel like you may have made a point of this on a previous occasion, so, my apologies in advance.

I don't know, I'm just reading the studies over here. I'm cheap, so I haven't picked up that book.

To cheapen your point with a reference to tvtropes: if I've glimpsed its meaning correctly, elevation is similar to the feeling I get when witnessing various sub-categories of the Heroic Sacrifice.

Yes, and nothing cheap about it. The soaring feeling upon appreciation of beauty qua beauty is also a manifestation of it. I suspect the intensity of concerns here about mediocrity are likewise related to disgust.

#574

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:41 AM

SC,
I looked at kyle's blog briefly, but I couldn't get past the title* or the wall of text with the random picture of some random broad staring back at me.

I can only torture myself so much.

*God is Love?? Jesus chain-smoking Christ, with a title like that you know it's gonna be awful.

#575

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:43 AM

that they now carry only milk that is rBST-free.

Which is next-to-worthless, since there's no evidence that milk produced with these hormones has any effect whatsoever on health.

I also heard that their floor materials now consist of only 100% organic recycled Indonesian person.

Bwah-ha-ha! Can I please be your Backup Wife™ if Mrs. Fire should meet an untimely end? Not that I'm hoping for that, or anything. . .

#576

Posted by: The Once And Future Janine, OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:45 AM

Fake Hubby, you missed the point. There was a time when Rod Stewart was great. I hold a special hatred because he betrayed what made him great.

#577

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:46 AM

Should be:

Of course it does. Of course the ideas of what constitutes good art are tightly bound to normative moral judgments, and of course these are inherently conservative, as all societalnorms are.

One's own personal norms may or may not be conservative of societal norms.

#578

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:47 AM

Fake Hubby, you missed the point. There was a time when Rod Stewart was great. I hold a special hatred because he betrayed what made him great.

Fake Wife, I lovingly disagree. Rod Stewart was always awful.

Naughtily yours,

Fake Hubby

#579

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:50 AM

ODS:

I looked at kyle's blog briefly

Link please?* Somehow I missed it...

*I know, I know. Curiosity might kill me here.

#580

Posted by: The Once And Future Janine, OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:51 AM

Disagree if you wish. But I explained why I hate Stewart above all other crappy musicians.

#581

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:52 AM

btw, I count 814 posts across the two threads in just the first 24 hours.

Don't know how that compares with other records (or whether it even can, being two threads), but it seems up there.

Whatever he specifically meant by it, Sven was probably right to call PZ a poopyhead. The guy must be laughing at us for being such suckers and filling up double the threads, twice as fast.

#582

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:52 AM

Josh:

Rod Stewart was always awful.

I agree. However, Mister agrees with Janine's position. We don't discuss it.

#584

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:56 AM

Caine, I am obliged to be seen and not heard, as First Fake Wife has explained. We shall not discuss the alleged deficiencies of Mr. Stewart (however legion they may be).

:))))

#585

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:58 AM

strange gods, there was criticism from an anonymous person on the internet of a bad poem that a guy posted publicly for people to read. That's it. There were no demands, no role expectations, no blood of the superorganism, no moral condemnation, no authority, no conservatism, no policing, no batons, no inhumanity. This is all fucking ridiculous and tiresome.

#586

Posted by: Pygmy Loris Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 12:59 AM

I hate you all for posting faster than I can keep up! I'm already two days behind and now there's two threads. Damn.

#587

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:00 AM

The singer I hate most is Rod Stewart.

*clenched-tentacle salute*


uh. well. Except for maybe oh, a bunch of other shitty singers too. e.g. that guy in The Smiths. And that other guy in The Violent Femmes. Also Jim Morrison. OK, I'll shut up about shitty singers. Except to reiterate that Rod Stewart was one, early careeer, Janine, excepted (didn't he sing backup for Long John Baldry?).

"vicious"

#588

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:04 AM

Oh, it's awfully too bad about Kyle Foley. He's purty.

#589

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:04 AM

Which is next-to-worthless, since there's no evidence that milk produced with these hormones has any effect whatsoever on health.

Right, exactly. I should have put a 'woo-hoo' or something to convey my feelings surrounding that.

Bwah-ha-ha! Can I please be your Backup Wife™ if Mrs. Fire should meet an untimely end? Not that I'm hoping for that, or anything. . .

Depends on how low you're willing to go, sweetie. I have a bucket list of deranged fetishes.

The caveat is, if I have to somehow fight Janine for you, I'm totally chickening out.

#590

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:05 AM

and Bono too!

#591

Posted by: FossilFishy Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:08 AM

I hate when you're having an intelligent discussion on facebook about clinical depression, a discussion in which real information, up to date and scientific, is being shared. And as some very frank and painful personal stories are being offered someone jumps in to say that a friend of theirs thinks that "...to free ones self from addiction, jealousy or depression, one had to be secure in one's own interests."

A FRIEND of yours says, really, REALLY!? Fuck off and die already! Did you not read what was written? Is your comprehension and compassion so stunted that you can't understand just how offensive that is?

[deep breath] Thank you hate thread, that felt good. Oh wait, I'm not suppose to say anything good here....shit...uh, disco sucks..er, that is it used to suck and still would if anyone played it now...damn, I'm not good at this...

#592

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:08 AM

no moral condemnation

...except from you, of course.

#593

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:09 AM

Depends on how low you're willing to go, sweetie.

You're either incredibly naive, or a right randy cad, sir. You should know better than to issue that kind of challenge to someone of my reputation.

The caveat is, if I have to somehow fight Janine for you, I'm totally chickening out.

So a cage match is out of the question? I was all ready to make my selection, too. Sigh.

#594

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:12 AM

ODS:

Don't say I didn't warn ya.

Thank you. I think. Hmmm...

God is love

It is only through a deep dedication to chastity's bleak winter of frustration that one can truly blossom amid love's plethora of mind-gold and boil within its resonant jazz shangrilahan

Oh dear. That's so fucking awful it leaves me speechless. And that's just his blog's subtitle. Nothing like an emo kid stoked on his lack of talent.

knowledge of 11 languages

Which means what? I have knowledge of more than 11 other languages, but that doesn't mean I speak more than 11 other languages.

i am angry with rage-foam

Great, it's another Marcel.

i am hot with blood that the allure and the entice waylay, molest and drill me, i am rebellious with curdling scorpion that shine-glitter moves me, that glamour-glitz compels me.

So, he can't get laid. Hence the frustration.

my interior ever insurgent with jaguar-wind, my flock ever mutinous with daggerang, am much more susceptible to the caress, and much weaker before the gembrace than you.

Really, I think he's a perfect match for Marcel.

what do i like about wood? it solidness, its firmness, the fact that although some wood is as hard as concrete there is, in spite of its density, expanding, vigorous life-blood within it its imitation of human history, strong, humble, simple and unassuming in the beginning of its life, yet megalo-glorious, beauteous, and magno-awesomo when it has completed its quest the variety of its species, the texture of its bark, the giganticum astonishum of its height

Um...

my jaws of explozja!

yeah, that's as much beyond awful I can take. Unholy cow, that's a load of shit.

#595

Posted by: キャロル AKA kiyaroru Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:14 AM

the deep meaning of knitted art
*hem*hem*hem* this . is . a . . . sock.
#596

Posted by: Feynmaniac, Chimerical Toad Superhero Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:15 AM

And as far as we can tell, neither does kyle-whatever-his-name-is (who I hadn't come across until I read CJO's post, since I hadn't been reading that thread). We have no reason to suppose that he's pursuing a "career" as a professional writer or that he aspires to be a published poet: he might be, but we don't know that, since he's just some randomer who dropped by.

On his blog profile he lists freelance translator/poet as his occupations and says that he's published two books.

#597

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:16 AM

You're either incredibly naive, or a right randy cad, sir. You should know better than to issue that kind of challenge to someone of my reputation.

Let's put it this way: I try typing the words into the comment box, but the comment box refuses to take them.

#598

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:16 AM

@Mattir

I get the point. I don't see where people were reducing people who were victimized to labels. Nor do I see where it falls under Thad's over all argument. Nor do I see why that point justifies or necessitates yelling at people for caring about the issue. The way Thad is using it DOES seem to be discouraging interest or action.

#599

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:18 AM

re: kyle: if it's true xe's got books of the stuff, then I guess I withdraw my umbrage.
('course nobody knew that at the time.)

#600

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:20 AM

sgbm:

Attempting to silence the critics also sounds distinctly authoritarian, strangegods.
Shit doesn't roll uphill.

What the fuck are you even saying here? Seriously, that means exactly nothing in the context of my quote.

Of course the ideas of what constitutes good art are tightly bound to normative moral judgments, and of course these are inherently conservative, as all norms are.

Yes, exactly. Because ground-breaking art is never applauded or critically acclaimed. *eye roll*

I said the criticism should be tuned toward humane outcomes.

You're just going around in circles and saying "stop being mean!" with more complex language. It's becoming frustrating and boring.

("LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!" *sob!*)

How does this follow? Why is being understood by others the measure of worth?

For fuck's sake. I don't know how to break this down any more than it has already been broken down.

Kyle posts a poem in a public space (many poems, actually, on his blog). I think we can reasonably assume that he had a specific point that he wanted to get across. The fact that his point got lost in his word choice speaks volumes of his skill and his judgment of his audience.

If he failed in his goal to make a coherent statement, then he failed at his "art". Why is that so hard for you to understand?

And, of course, kyle's choice of medium has absolutely nothing to do with this current argument. Nope, nothing at all.

(I'm just spitballing here, but I won't be terribly surprised if you consider my base assumption wrong. Fuck it, I don't care.)

It's got nothing to do with societal norms, unless you are railing against language as well.
I will, some other time. Too busy right now.

Jesus fucking Christ, please don't. I can't handle any more of you hackneyed explanations, which manage to explain exactly nothing.

Criticism that produces a world with more compassion and more liberation.

So, in other words, mediocrity is a-okay as long as we don't hurt anyone's feelings. Gotcha.

#601

Posted by: Pygmy Loris Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:21 AM

Caine,

I can't believe you quoted this:

what do i like about wood? it solidness, its firmness, the fact that although some wood is as hard as concrete there is, in spite of its density, expanding, vigorous life-blood within it its imitation of human history, strong, humble, simple and unassuming in the beginning of its life, yet megalo-glorious, beauteous, and magno-awesomo when it has completed its quest the variety of its species, the texture of its bark, the giganticum astonishum of its height

on the Hate Thread. This young person's love of "wood" is something beautiful, though the expression of that love mangles the English language virtually beyond recognition.

#602

Posted by: Ing: Wielder of Snark Torpedoes Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:24 AM

@Mattir

Also a it seems hypocritical to chastise people for not seeing victims as people (whatever) when Thad seems insensitively incapable of thinking of people he's talking to as people.

#603

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:26 AM

Sven:

re: kyle: if it's true xe's got books of the stuff, then I guess I withdraw my umbrage.

According to his blog, the books he's written are:

Lorelei Pursued.

Description: Petrarch's Laura de Sade of Carpentras reincarnates herself in the guise of a sixteen year old high school student, Laura Jefferson. Unknowingly possessed by the German siren, the Lorelei (pronounced laura-lie), she adds the -lie ending to her name and eventually succeeds in captivating a substitute teacher, Cyle Schiffer, so completely that she will eventually draw him even into inferno's horrential chernoblium where he will attempt to liberate her from the destructo-curse of the spirit of seduction.

There's one review:

Unlike most modern day poets and writers, Foley has delicately molded a voice, style, and poetic creation all his own. To say his work is innovative is depricating, because it is so much more than that. His language variance is unique and captivating. Simply put; this is a great read of a troubled man.

Wrestles with God

Description: Within the reader will find some two-hundred and sixty poetic prayers spread over a two year period which chronicle my struggle to live according to God's will. One might find insight into their own attempt to understand the mind of God as well as inspiration to rededicate themselves to or intensify their love for the Creator. All prayer are addressed to "the Lord" thus excluding none of the three monotheistic religions. An elaborate poetic English called Langlano is used which employs some 500 easily understandable invented words.

No reviews.

#604

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:26 AM

Sven,
Well, kyle did bloghwore in his post. It was there if anyone cared to read it, but I think we were all scared to.

#605

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:26 AM

Oh, I also hate the fact that it's been almost two months since I've had a cigarette. Well, actually, that's good, but I wanna hate it. Fuck you, quitting smoking. Oh, tobacco, I just can't let you go. How I would love to have one of you right now.

#606

Posted by: Pygmy Loris Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:28 AM

Josh,

I finally gave up the last few cigarettes yesterday. It sucks ass.

#607

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:31 AM

You guys, stop criticizing kyle's poetry!
You're not being humane!

*sob!*

#608

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:32 AM

Pygmy Loris:

This young person's love of "wood" is something beautiful, though the expression of that love mangles the English language virtually beyond recognition.

I think Kyle's love of wood is being suppressed by his love of god.

#609

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:33 AM

It sucks ass.

Yeah. It does. Thank fuck for the nicotine vaporizer, or I'd be toast.

I don't regret it, really. I just hate the fact that things changed after my heart attack. Before that, I'd weaned myself down from two packs a day of Marlboros to one or two, and some days none. What kept me going was saying to myself, "It's not that I can never have another cigarette. It's just that it will be an occasional thing, not a habit."

Now I'm afraid to even do that, and I'm fuckin' pissed. I'd like to be able to think I could have one from time to time, but I won't do it. Too afraid of getting sucked back in completely. Jesus Christ in a Sidecar, how did I become an ex-smoker? That's not an identity I want.

#610

Posted by: Feynmaniac, Chimerical Toad Superhero Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:35 AM

what do i like about wood? it solidness, its firmness, the fact that although some wood is as hard as concrete there is, in spite of its density, expanding, vigorous life-blood within it

Did anyone else think of the Vogons after reading this?

(I guess we're really living up to this thread's name.)

#612

Posted by: Pygmy Loris Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:40 AM

Now I'm afraid to even do that, and I'm fuckin' pissed. I'd like to be able to think I could have one from time to time, but I won't do it. Too afraid of getting sucked back in completely. Jesus Christ in a Sidecar, how did I become an ex-smoker? That's not an identity I want.

Oh yeah. It's the never having another one again that gets to me, but I'm trying. Went down to three a day, and now none. My uncle was just sent home from the hospital a couple of days ago. He had chest pains and shortness of breath. Unfortunately it's because his heart is giving out. The doctors said there's nothing left to do after the bypass he just had. I don't want to die at 60, so I've quit the fucking cigarettes. I am not an ex-smoker, though. I'm just not smoking right now (where right now is every fucking minute of every fucking day).

Yeah, death, I fucking hate it.

#613

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:41 AM

Feynmaniac:

Did anyone else think of the Vogons after reading this?

Hahahahahahahaha. Now that's the worst criticism I can think of when it comes to poetry.

#614

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:45 AM

Pygmy, high-five. Right there with ya babe.

#615

Posted by: Patricia, OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:47 AM

I hate death.
I hate missing all of you.

I hate my mother-in-law.
I hate what death leaves behind.

I hate the VA.
Thanks for the drive by.

Remain calm, and knit on.
;)

#616

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:49 AM

Awe yeah, Night of the Living Dead is coming up on AMC!

Wait, wait. Hate Thread. Right.

I hate that I won't be able to stay up late enough to watch all of it.

(Seriously, you guys, stop mocking kyle! We have to celebrate all attempts at art, no matter how shitty!)

#617

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:50 AM

An elaborate poetic English called Langlano is used which employs some 500 easily understandable invented words.

This not only seems to be Kyle's little creative invention (making up words), but his books were published by Langlano Press, which has published two books, which just happen to be Kyle's.

#618

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:51 AM

OMG, Patricia - don't leave me this way!.

How the hell are you, Naughty Marvin, and the Pullet Patrol?

#619

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:53 AM

ODS:

We have to celebrate all attempts at art, no matter how shitty!

No, I won't! You're stomping on my self expression and being all inhumane, dammit!

#620

Posted by: Pygmy Loris Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:53 AM

Caine,

The most unfortunate aspect of love for god is the suppression of love for all the wonderful things life has to offer, like wood. Just leaves more for the rest of us, I guess.

Feynmaniac,

You have won one internet.

#621

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:55 AM

Hi Patricia! I love hate you!

#622

Posted by: Feynmaniac, Chimerical Toad Superhero Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:55 AM

Now that's the worst criticism I can think of when it comes to poetry.

Technically, third worst.

#623

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:58 AM

Feynmaniac:

Technically, third worst.

A mere technicality. You still get a plate of cookies and win a sniny internets.

#624

Posted by: Rey Fox, Death of the Party Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 1:59 AM

Oh freddled-gruntbuggly...

#625

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:00 AM

A hint: if a line of your poetry sounds like it could come out of Oprah's mouth, it's bad. Terrible. Start over. Start your whole life over if possible. You suck.

Kekekeke. Words to live by, my friend, words to live by. Spaghettios that poem was awful.

-
SteveV #364: Hmmm. Why is 'Gay' in scare quote in that headline, I wonder?
/reads

"An immigration judge found on the evidence before them that Ms Namiggade was not homosexual."

... wut.

-
Sven, if you don't want to respond, don't respond. Your form letters make the baby spaghetti monster cry.
-

Homeopathy poll here: Homeopathy forever

Nanoparticle technology ... wut.
Oooh, it's clarified by a commentor under the poll:
nono particles

Well, now it all makes sense.
On the other hand:
Homoeopathic Single charged Globule with remedy is nuclear bomb, having constructive work as nuclear bomb, destruct.

... and we're right back to - wut.

-
Rutee #383: Awesome, thanks.
-

Also, the "A for effort" or "E for effort" in the popular vernacular is typically a condescending way to denote someone's lack of success

Yeah, the kids saw through the sham so thoroughly that they started using it as an insult. Whoops.
-
Ing:

1) hate tail gators

Yeah. And crockoduck hood ornaments.
-
Insomnica sounds positively homeopathic {shudder}
-
I hate artwank.
-
Josh:
Walmart. / I hate the artful disorganization of the merchandise that compels me to traverse the whole thing in order to get more than one item.

You think that's accidental?
-
Mattir #550: I hate you :)

#626

Posted by: OurDeadSelves, Mother of Death Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:03 AM

Okay guys it's been funhell, but I've gotta go to bed now.

I hate you all so very much! I do not wish you pleasant dreams!

#627

Posted by: MrFire Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:10 AM

OMG, Patricia - don't leave me this way!

Sometimes it's for the best.

I'm a gonna bed, but daughter will be up in 2 hours, I bet.

#628

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:13 AM

strange gods, there was criticism from an anonymous person on the internet of a bad poem that a guy posted publicly for people to read. That's it. There were no demands, no role expectations, no blood of the superorganism, no moral condemnation, no authority, no conservatism, no policing, no batons, no inhumanity. This is all fucking ridiculous and tiresome.

You are being ridiculous. And if you find it tiresome, then you don't have to engage.

But it's quite absurd to suppose that the types of criticism, and the ends these criticisms serve, do not shift over time along with the dominant culture.

It's naive to think that criticism doesn't play a social role in policing people's behavior. And I am not necessarily saying that it shouldn't. But we must ask, to what ends? The very notion of standards is inherently conservative. And I don't know that this could or should be done away with, but we must ask what is being preserved.

no moral condemnation

...except from you, of course.

I might be the only one here who's aware that he's doing it, but you're all doing it. That's what society is, the interplay between standards and each individual's anxiety about meeting those standards.

The complaints that if we don't do this, then mediocrity will reign, are moral condemnations, insofar as mediocrity is assumed to be bad.

What the fuck are you even saying here? Seriously, that means exactly nothing in the context of my quote.

One person's judgments against the dominant culture can be forceful, but they cannot be authoritarian in the same sense that the general vector of social sanctions are softly authoritarian.

Yes, exactly. Because ground-breaking art is never applauded or critically acclaimed. *eye roll*

And the ground-breaking achievement of electing a black man as president doesn't mean racism is over.

You're just going around in circles and saying "stop being mean!" with more complex language. It's becoming frustrating and boring.

("LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!" *sob!*)

Again, I have not once in this conversation said don't be mean. You are imagining things. I have never said that. Meanness has its place. I'm saying let's be sure that meanness is being used consciously, deliberately, and toward humane ends. A default meanness, against something aesthetically displeasing, is just reactionary.

Here art is being turned away from the service of artists' own purposes, toward some prevailing cultural demands. And while some of these demands do serve human needs -- if the art expressed bigotry more of us would be ahootin' and ahollerin' -- it's not clear that they all do. Prevailing cultural demands often amount to nothing more than soft authoritarianism, the corral of the white picket fence.

For fuck's sake. I don't know how to break this down any more than it has already been broken down.

Exactly. Because it's got no real foundation. You're assuming art should be for communication, you have no actual basis for assuming that, and so when questioned further on it there's nowhere to go.

It just must be for communication, and I must not grok this, and that's that.

Kyle posts a poem in a public space (many poems, actually, on his blog). I think we can reasonably assume that he had a specific point that he wanted to get across.

Doesn't follow. There are other imaginable reasons to put a poem in a public space. "Because I felt like it" is a reason. You simply don't know that communication is the goal, and much more sweeping claims about communication have been made:

You're not actually right about there being no objective. Sure, it's a really, really broad objective measure, but it exists:

Can anyone fucking understand what the fuck you're talking about?

It's a measure, but there's nothing objective about it.

If he failed in his goal to make a coherent statement, then he failed at his "art". Why is that so hard for you to understand?

A: you don't know that making a coherent statement was a goal at all, and

B: even if it was, you don't know that it was the only goal.

So, in other words, mediocrity is a-okay as long as we don't hurt anyone's feelings. Gotcha.

That's definitely not what I said.

I said mediocrity is A-OK, no matter what.

I also said that all criticism has the power to influence, and we should be aware of this.

I am not necessarily criticizing the use of meanness here, though that too should be investigated.

Rather I am criticizing the notion that there is any objective standard at all to judge art. So we should be aware that all criticisms push people in one direction or another, and we should check whether that direction serves human needs, and the use of meanness should be evaluated for its outcomes, rather than simply being presumed necessary.

#629

Posted by: Pygmy Loris Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:15 AM

I hate republican morons who display their ignorance of the most basic science in public.

I especially hate when people trot out that old "but they were predicting an Ice Age in the 70s" crap to defend their irrational disbelief in AGW. Fuck 'em.

#630

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:17 AM

(Seriously, you guys, stop mocking kyle! We have to celebrate all attempts at art, no matter how shitty!)

This is a misrepresentation of what I said, and in fact I already explicitly addressed this:

I don't want to live in a world where all "art" is accepted as because people appreciate the effort and nothing else.

Also, I'm not suggesting that "appreciating the effort" should be presumed legitimate either. I suspect this request, taken for granted often enough, would also produce a soft authoritarianism. (The exposure to which might explain Caine's anger.)

I was very clear on this point, so you really have no basis for suggesting otherwise.

#631

Posted by: The Once And Future Janine, OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:17 AM

Damn but I hate that horrid woman, Lorelei.

Pogues

Cocteau Twins

#632

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:18 AM

Pygmy Loris:

I especially hate when people trot out that old "but they were predicting an Ice Age in the 70s" crap to defend their irrational disbelief in AGW. Fuck 'em.

Aarrggh. It would be nice to airlift those folks and drop 'em on a glacier.

#633

Posted by: Rey Fox, Death of the Party Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:18 AM

So we should be aware that all criticisms push people in one direction or another, and we should check whether that direction serves human needs, and the use of meanness should be evaluated for its outcomes, rather than simply being presumed necessary.

I humbly submit that trashing shite poetry is a human need in and of itself. Also, I am going to bed.

#634

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:19 AM

No, I won't! You're stomping on my self expression and being all inhumane, dammit!

I have not said that stomping on someone's self expression is necessarily inhumane.

#635

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:21 AM

Janine:

Pogues

Aaaaah, nice.

#636

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:21 AM

I humbly submit that trashing shite poetry is a human need in and of itself.

That is a possibility. Now, what is your argument for why it is so?

#637

Posted by: Pygmy Loris Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:25 AM

aaand, I hate that Time apparently thinks that Obama adopting Reagan's ideas is a good thing. Why do so many people think that man was anything other than a senile puppet for corporate interests and the monied classes?

#638

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:33 AM

Jesus Christ, SGBM. Please do not construe this as:

1. A call for you to shut up

2. A normative judgment upon your judgment

3. An act of ignoring your well-thought-out comments

. . but for the love of Pete, are you completely humorless? Do you ever shut it off? Do you ever just have a good time, or are you a total serious boor 24/7?

You're one of the brightest commenters here, and you think/write deeply. Believe it or not, I appreciate your comments more often than not (and not that that matters, I'm just one guy).

You're also often stuck in a goddamned rut. Doubtless you find my commentary as frivolous and annoying as I find yours overly didactic and plodding (lately anyway). So there we are.

#639

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:37 AM

Josh:

You're one of the brightest commenters here

You're a better man than I am, then, because I seriously disagree. I don't consider assholish argument simply for argument's sake bright. But that's me.

#640

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:41 AM

It's naive to think that criticism doesn't play a social role in policing people's behavior. And I am not necessarily saying that it shouldn't. But we must ask, to what ends? The very notion of standards is inherently conservative. And I don't know that this could or should be done away with, but we must ask what is being preserved.

What is with this "we must" and "let's be sure" pomposity? No one needs to justify their aesthetic standards or criticism to you.

#641

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:48 AM

splendogloria? Seriously?


and Bono too!

YES, and for much the same reasons as Janine cited for Rod Stewart. Goddamn it guys, I remember when you were a kick-ass Irish rebel rock group, who taught me my politics right. Then you had to go off to some castle with Brian Eno to discover yourselves. And what did you discover? Pompous wankers! And what the unholy fuck with that overblown tour? No, you're not critiquing the Spectacle, you are the motherfucking Spectacle! It's not irony it's fucking WANK. And Bono, yeah you, next time someone sends you a cheque to be pompous rent-a-quote #3 about Issue Of The Week, spend it on a nice big knife and do the honorable thing, homes. The world will thank you.


It is only through a deep dedication to chastity's bleak winter of frustration

I reeled. No, literally, I reeled back from the monitor wincing in pain. Someone rend me in the gobberwarts with their blurglecruncheon, stat.

my interior ever insurgent with jaguar-wind
Well stop eating jaguars then, idiot.


This young person's love of "wood" is something beautiful


Lorelei Pursued

Oh great, so he's a fapping paedo apologist too. Awesome.


I think Kyle's love of wood is being suppressed by his love of god.

Thread won.

Did anyone else think of the Vogons after reading this?
See above.


I hate that TextEdit won't save as plain .txt - what's with that?

Damn, Marc Almond is really messing with my Kinsey scale.

#642

Posted by: Orange Utan, Librarian of Death Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 2:55 AM


I hate that TextEdit won't save as plain .txt - what's with that?

Format Menu -> Convert to Plain Text

Then when you save, it saves as plain text. You can also change the prefs to default new documents to plain text as well.

#643

Posted by: Feynmaniac, Chimerical Toad Superhero Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 3:05 AM

Well, at least Cuttlefish doesn't have to worry about being replaced.

(Okay, I'm stopping.)
_ _ _

Why do so many people think that man was anything other than a senile puppet for corporate interests and the monied classes?

Because the corporations and monied classes own the media and they (along with the Republicans and some Democrats) treat Reagan like a second messiah. The last 30 years have been great for super rich and he's largely responsible. Hence, the raging Boehner boner for zombie Reagan.
_ _ _

Doesn't what constitute 'good art' have both objective and subjective elements? There's no formulaic way to determine what is good art, but at the same time good works do tend to have some things in common.

To use an analogy, there is significant variation in individuals as what constitutes an attractive male face, but studies have shown that there is a tendency for features such as smooth skin, large eyes, full lips, etc. Yes, yes, not everyone likes all these things, but a good portion of the population seems to.

Can we maybe say something similar about 'good art'? That great poems, novels, etc. tend to have certain features?

/science geek dangerously venturing outside his territory

#644

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 3:06 AM

drbunsen:

Someone rend me in the gobberwarts with their blurglecruncheon, stat.

Consider it done. That's actually better than any one of Kyle's efforts (no, he doesn't get an A for effort) and that pretty much says it all.

#645

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 3:10 AM

. . but for the love of Pete, are you completely humorless? Do you ever shut it off? Do you ever just have a good time, or are you a total serious boor 24/7?

Arguments like these, when you see me maintaining a respectful demeanor, are a good time online. Intellectual stimulation is fun in and of itself. When you see me getting angry then I'm having a bad time.

And yes, I do have fun at Pharyngula.

I realize that putting forward primarily my serious side gives people here a warped impression of me, but I prefer to share my frivolities only with certain people. If you're worried about me, I'll have to ask you to take my word for it.

You're one of the brightest commenters here, and you think/write deeply. Believe it or not, I appreciate your comments more often than not (and not that that matters, I'm just one guy).

Thank you.

You're also often stuck in a goddamned rut.

To my recollection, I have never discussed art criticism at Pharyngula before. Ruts, sometimes, perhaps, but I am usually learning something more thoroughly than before.

Doubtless you find my commentary as frivolous and annoying as I find yours overly didactic and plodding (lately anyway). So there we are.

I took it as well-intentioned, not frivolous at all. And only mildly annoying.

#646

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 3:12 AM

Feynmaniac:

Doesn't what constitute 'good art' have both objective and subjective elements?

Yes, it does.

Can we maybe say something similar about 'good art'? That great poems, novels, etc. tend to have certain features?

Yes, we can. It's obvious when you get people talking (just plain people, not professional critics) that there are works which are not only considered good, but those works also resonate with a wide group of people, often for different reasons. It's also obvious when you get people talking that there are works which simply stink.

#647

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 3:18 AM

SGBM, I just wish you'd take a lighter touch once in a while. That every comment from you wasn't quite as fraught. Lately, you seem to be making excessive drama out of what could be just conversation (even if that conversation is deservedly serious). It's off-putting, and to me, seems often actively hostile without a good reason. I'm not opposed to hostility, believe me, it just seems to me some of yours is aimed too hotly at the wrong people.

Having said that, again, I'm just one guy here on Teh Thread. My opinion counts as much or as little as anyone else's. I'm not trying to shut you up (implicitly or explicitly, which isn't even possible), so please don't anyone start carping about Thread Cops.

#648

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 3:24 AM

SGBM, I just wish you'd take a lighter touch once in a while. That every comment from you wasn't quite as fraught. Lately, you seem to be making excessive drama out of what could be just conversation (even if that conversation is deservedly serious). It's off-putting, and to me, seems often actively hostile without a good reason. I'm not opposed to hostility, believe me, it just seems to me some of yours is aimed too hotly at the wrong people.

Have I made drama in this conversation, about art?

#649

Posted by: Owlmirror, k∙log W Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 3:30 AM

On which thread would one post Rom 9:13.

Oh, definitely this one.

The scripture that Paul is citing is from Malachi 1:2. Have you read Malachi 1? It's this rant about how Edom is just totally teh suck; "we hates it; we hates it forever!!!!", followed by this long screed about how terrible it is that the animals being sacrificed aren't 100% unblemished. OMG, you're not giving your best to YHWH, and it makes YHWH so cranky! Show some respect, you horrible little people! Only give YHWH your very, very best!!! Yes, YHWH does too care!!! He cares a lot! YHWH told me so himself ... !!

And so on.

Malachi was absolutely a hater.

#650

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 3:34 AM

I especially hate when people trot out that old "but they were predicting an Ice Age in the 70s" crap
Goddamn yes.

I hate how addictive this love/hate dichotomy threadness is. Gooddamn you Professor Poopyhead!! {shakes clenched tentacles}

for MrFire

#651

Posted by: strange gods before me ॐ Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 3:42 AM

You're a better man than I am, then, because I seriously disagree. I don't consider assholish argument simply for argument's sake bright. But that's me.

That's interesting, Caine, because it's the entire content of your #445. You contributed substantively in other places, don't get me wrong, but don't act like you're above it.

And "argument for argument's sake" is ... not quite what I'm doing. I'm arguing for my own elucidation. Granted, it's similar enough that I can understand how you'd mistake the two.

Arguing with Sven above was more along the lines of "for argument's sake," and I was happy to drop that and leave the guy alone as soon as something more interesting came up.

What is with this "we must" and "let's be sure" pomposity? No one needs to justify their aesthetic standards or criticism to you.

Every action with the ability to hurt or otherwise sanction must be justified. Not just to me, but to the world.

A statement like "I don't like this art" is obviously justified on its face. You don't like it, there's not much you can do about it, and there's no objective reason why you should like it.

A statement like "this isn't good art" is not obviously justified.

#652

Posted by: SteveV, Death's Haberdasher Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 3:44 AM

What's the difference between a dead banker and a dead cat lying on the motor(free)way?







There are skid marks around the cat.

Attributed to Boris Johnson

#653

Posted by: Rutee, Shrieking Harpy of Dooooom Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 3:48 AM

I hate this conversation on Art.

#654

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 3:49 AM

Owlmirror:

Malachi was absolutely a hater.

Well, yes. There's not exactly an abundance of luuuuv in the OT, so he doesn't stand out by much.

#655

Posted by: Orange Utan, Librarian of Death Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 3:54 AM


There's not exactly an abundance of luuuuv in the OT

Maybe there was free love in the Garden of Eden until we got freewill.

#656

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 3:56 AM

Orang Utan; thanks

For Caine, Fleur du Mal #644 and anyone else who may have missed the reference, or just feels like refreshing the memory banks: ...sublimate this, transcend that, and come to terms with the fundamental dichotomies of the other ...

Movie? What movie? No, there wasn't. Shush now.

And yes, that is Douglas Adams' bottom; the next part features penguins.

#657

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 4:00 AM

... or possibly the part after that. Anyway, somewhere in that episode there are penguins, and Marvin.

#658

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 4:09 AM

I hate this conversation on Art.
+several million.
#659

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 4:10 AM

drbunsen, I didn't miss the reference, but thanks.

Orange Utan:

Maybe there was free love in the Garden of Eden until we got freewill.

Darn those pomegranates and serpents and weak-willed, feeble brained womens!

I rather imagine the love must have been free, 'cause there were only two peoples and they weren't even ashamed of being nekkid!

Back to Malachi. The whole diatribe is a particularly hateful one, full of how the sacrifices to god aren't proper sacrifices, and god's gonna curse you and you and you and you...and so on. God also goes on about being robbed:

3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.

Poor ol' God. Gets robbed and all he can do is utter curses.

#660

Posted by: Orange Utan, Librarian of Death Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 4:13 AM

Poor ol' God. Gets robbed and all he can do is utter curses.

So man is god? Who hasn't been robbed and uttered curses?

#661

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 4:23 AM

{voice=homer_simpson}
Thaddeus Blanchette ... urge to kill ... rising ... rising
{/voice}

#662

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 4:25 AM

Orange Utan, I think people are better than god, at least in the cursing department. El Shaddai manages "Ye are cursed with a curse". Yeah.

Not great compared to "For all your days, you will go sugar one decaying porcupine after another with joy-bliss and hymn-dance it up your anus, sideways, while rage-wrestling with a cobra-serpent. This will carry on for all eternity, you fuckhead of a Cupcake."

#663

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 4:27 AM

I hate that the cat just landed full-force on my hands. From the top of the cupboard. While I was typing. Twice.

Ouch. Bad kitteh.

#664

Posted by: Orange Utan, Librarian of Death Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 4:34 AM

For all your days, you will go sugar one decaying porcupine after another with joy-bliss and hymn-dance it up your anus, sideways, while rage-wrestling with a cobra-serpent. This will carry on for all eternity, you fuckhead of a Cupcake.

Just been reading the new wiki and hopefully over time, this will be fleshed out to a full starfart.

#665

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 4:50 AM

Pffft, that's not a starfart, it's just a curse.

#666

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 5:18 AM

Fuck I hate self-doubt. Am I making worthwhile points here, * and clearly?

* Anth-rape-apology thread, possibly trigger-y

#667

Posted by: Walton, OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 5:42 AM

Meh.

I'm sorry for making such a big drama last night.

CJO's comments just triggered a strong emotional reaction. I was feeling down in any case, for unrelated reasons, and I guess I had an empathy overload.

Oddly, I can handle criticism of my own efforts better than you might think. In my involvement with politics, I've mostly learned to shrug it off. So I don't know why I sometimes react so strongly to seeing someone else's efforts criticized harshly. Empathy overload again, I guess. I just can't help imagining how it might make them feel.

In any case, I'm not going to continue the argument (and will bow out of this thread for now).

#668

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 5:55 AM

Don't go bowing out, Walton, you're fine. Really.

And if you're still tempted to be all empathetic towards Kyle, the bad poet, do some reading at splendogloria.

#669

Posted by: Jadehawk Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 5:56 AM

"i am rebellious with curdling scorpion"?

"i am rebellious with curdling scorpion"?!


that's it. I don't care if it's inhumane and downright totalitarian, but if mocking kyle gets him to either stop publicly writing this, or to improve, then I suggest more mocking.

That up there hurts my eyes and brain.

#670

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 6:04 AM

That up there hurts my eyes and brain.

It's a remarkably stupid line. It's a sinkhole of stupid. Kyle is so in love with words (both real and made up), that sense simply doesn't matter. Just string those words together!

#671

Posted by: David Marjanović Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 6:05 AM

"i am rebellious with curdling scorpion"?

"i am rebellious with curdling scorpion"?!

Looks like an automated translation to me. Perhaps transkoreanize it?

(Hate for translate.google.com and babelfish.altavista.com is totally on topic.)

#672

Posted by: Jadehawk Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 6:12 AM

Hate for translate.google.com and babelfish.altavista.com is totally on topic.
that gives me an idea... after 10 translations, the Bad Translator turns this
i am hot with blood that the allure and the entice waylay, molest and drill me, i am rebellious with curdling scorpion that shine-glitter moves me, that glamour-glitz compels me.
into this:
I'm blood, I worry of intimidation and trouble, to reduce rebel charm, my shoes pointer errors, I made a great interface.
I think we can say with absolute certainly that the latter is an improvement, if only because it's shorter and actually features coherent sentence fragments
#674

Posted by: David Marjanović Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 6:19 AM

Bad Translator was the name I had forgotten. I hate when that happens. :-)

I also hate the fact, just mentioned on the radio, that 1/3 of all Egyptians are illiterate.

I think we can say with absolute certainly that the latter is an improvement, if only because it's shorter and actually features coherent sentence fragments

<clenched-tentacle salute>

#675

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 6:23 AM

I'm blood, I worry of intimidation and trouble, to reduce rebel charm, my shoes pointer errors, I made a great interface.

That's actually an improvement. On his blog, Kyle has an incredibly cringe-worthy 'poem' to a woman, who he was soooo in love with, and wanted to marry, but his love for god made her run away leave him. He actually mentions texting in his 'poem'.

so when on the third day of our fledgling relationship, sweet xxxx*, you responded to all fifteen of my text messages within five minutes i absolutely euphoriated in crysto-joy, i categorically effulged paradisium, the indigo swan danced for me, the budding humming-bird flew for me, and all my mud-misery vanished into knife-night. although two weeks later when you began to pull away after you learned that my religious views made marriage between us impossible, and the love between us dissipated,

*Name redacted.

#676

Posted by: lordsetar Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 6:28 AM

Caine #675: I can understand 'mud-misery', but I have no idea what the hell a 'knife-night' is.

#677

Posted by: lordsetar Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 6:30 AM

Excuse the double post, but I just read that poem again and...'effulged'? Who the hell does this guy think he is, Lewis Carroll?

#678

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 6:32 AM

lordsetar, I can interpret "mud-misery", I think. It makes me think of wallowing in the mud, but that may or may not have been what he meant. It's difficult to tell. As for "Knife-night", well, got me. I have no idea as to what that's supposed to mean and I doubt the author knows, either. I expect he just thought it sounded cool.

#679

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 6:37 AM

lordsetar, See 603 & 617. It's 'Langlano', which means making words up.

#680

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 6:39 AM

Oh, and that's not the whole poem, by far. It goes on and on and on and on and on and on.

#681

Posted by: Walton, OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 6:41 AM

Bleh.

Ok... *peeks at Caine's link*

rile me with thrashing excitica, dylan,
that one’s emanation of altruism
truly smote me with scarlet,
and enwhirled me with mind-jazz,
not pulchrome’s strike to the eye,
or its arrestation of the senses.

as an anarcho-primitivist, dylan,
you are probably much less susceptible
to beauty’s toxicity of jail,
and its harmful captivation of mind
than my grenadiers, my soldiers and my buffalo.

My first thought is that kyle is intoxicated by words. He's more interested in the sounds of words than in their meaning. The impression I get is that he just strings words together as they come to him, in an order he finds aesthetically pleasing, without being all that concerned about painting a coherent picture for the reader. Hence why he ends up with incomprehensible gnomic utterances. There's a certain amount of raw emotion to it, but it's impossible to tell what he's really thinking.

It's a bit like opening a box of paints, being excited by all the different colours, and deciding to mix them all up randomly and splurge them on a canvas rather than trying to paint an actual picture.

It's bad, but I think there is potential there. He has the paintbox; he just has to break himself of his fascination with the paints, and start using them as tools to paint a picture.

At least... that's my take on it. I'm not trying to be harsh.

#682

Posted by: lordsetar Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 6:49 AM

Walton #681:

My first thought is that kyle is intoxicated by words. He's more interested in the sounds of words than in their meaning. The impression I get is that he just strings words together as they come to him, in an order he finds aesthetically pleasing, without being all that concerned about painting a coherent picture for the reader. Hence why he ends up with incomprehensible gnomic utterances. There's a certain amount of raw emotion to it, but it's impossible to tell what he's really thinking.

In other words, he's a theologian?

#683

Posted by: Moggie Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 6:50 AM

#675:

He actually mentions texting in his 'poem'.

Is it wrong that I wish I could read one of those text messages? Can you imagine? The medium of the phone text message cries out for a creative genius infused with jaguar-wind.

#593:

I was all ready to make my selection, too.

I hate that Madeline Kahn is no longer with us. She died far too young for someone with such comedic talent.

Last night I dreamed that my doorbell was ringing, so I woke up and went to the door to check whether it was for reals. At 3 a.m. Thanks a lot, brain. Jerk.

#684

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 6:51 AM

as an anarcho-primitivist, dylan, you are probably much less susceptible to beauty’s toxicity of jail, and its harmful captivation of mind than my grenadiers, my soldiers and my buffalo.

I'm sorry, I just couldn't resist it. After 10 translations:

Early anarchists, Dylan, is not easy many times from the U.S., Amill damaging grenades and soul, my country, my soldiers, my Unicorn prison toxicity.

Uh...

#685

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 6:55 AM

Walton, you weren't harsh at all, and yes, Kyle is so in love with words, that words aren't good enough, he makes them up. Read upthread, Walton, and you'll find he paid to publish two books, one of which he explains, to a point, about his made up language of 'easily understood words'.

Unlike you, however, I don't think there is potential. That's because Kyle evinces zero interest in poetry. It takes study and discipline to write well, especially when it comes to poetry. I also don't think much of the raw emotion - it's nullified by his love of made up words. All of it comes across as rather sterile, in spite of the words.

#686

Posted by: Jadehawk Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 6:58 AM

unicorn prison toxicity?

awesome :-p

#687

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 7:00 AM

Dania:

my Unicorn prison toxicity.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha. Hahahahahahahahaha. Hee. :thud:

I have no idea why, but that just makes me laugh my arse off.

#688

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 7:09 AM

This is hilarious.

I tried max number of translations and at some point, when translating from Haitian Creole back to English:

the toxicity of chemicals in jail Unicorn me.

I just can't stop laughing.

Unicorn me? Bwahahahaha.

#689

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 7:12 AM

the toxicity of chemicals in jail Unicorn me.

Hahahahaha. Oh my. Unicorn me. That's as good as decaying porcupine.

#690

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 7:15 AM

Oh, go unicorn yourself!

Yep, it works.

#691

Posted by: David Marjanović Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 7:29 AM

He actually mentions texting in his 'poem'.

That is not the problem.

Who the hell does this guy think he is, Lewis Carroll?

That's part of the problem.

In other words, he's a theologian?

Good point.

the toxicity of chemicals in jail Unicorn me.

I'll try to use this as often as possible. :-)

#692

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 7:31 AM

Oh, go unicorn yourself!

Awesome.

This has been a prolific subThread when it comes to new, creative, hilarious insults and potential new memes.

Perhaps it was to be expected.

I hate you all. Go unicorn yourselves with a decaying porcupine sugared with joy-bliss and hymn-dance, you rage-wrestling cobra-serpents.

:P

#693

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 8:12 AM

FUCK.

I HATE that I was writing a response to Shiloh the dim-witted and the power went out and I lost everything.

Aaaaargh.

I guess I'm going to interpret it as sign from FSM that Shiloh is too fucking stupid to be reasoned with and I'm wasting my time.

Or the SIWOTI syndrome will win out and I'll type it all again after lunch.

*sigh*

#694

Posted by: Ogvorbis, Parenthetical Death Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 8:27 AM

I hate that as I get older, it is more difficult, and takes much more time, for me to mount.

No. Seriously. I have to mount some images on foam core and I seem to be all thumbs this morning.

But it is Thursday. And we are expecting 2-3 cm of snow today.

Oh joy and happiness unforeseen!

#695

Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space, OM, Death's Wellness Consultant Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 8:38 AM

On education, red ink and teaching:

I had a geography teacher in high school. He would give essay tests, and when grading, if his red pen ran out of ink on your paper, he would with great ceremony bestow upon you the coveted Red Pen Award--the carcass of the depleted writing implement--along with your test. I was the recipient of an unprecedented three Red Pen Awards, and I believe that I was a candidate for a Red Pen Lifetime Achievement Award.

He was tough. A Viet Nam green beret, who "officially" never left Thailand. His tests were hard, and he was a merciless grader. I remember he one time compared the consistency of one essay to "warm puppy shit". I remember one test where I pounded my pud all over it, and when I got the test back, all it said was, "This is crap. Try again." I went home and completely rewrote the test--driven by a rage against my failure. When I got that test back, it was an A, and all he said was, "Why didn't you do this the first time."

That's where I learned to write--and it was the only class I ever had to study in 'til I got to grad school. Frankly, I think the best thing they could do for education would be to chain the administrators to their desks, get the crappy teachers out of the classroom, tell the parents to go fuck themselves and let the good teachers teach there fucking devil spawn.

#696

Posted by: Mattir, hOMeschooling's black sheep Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 9:16 AM

@drbunsen - Yes, it's astonishing to see someone who's intelligent and has interesting things to say produce such a prolific starfarting exercise. As far as I can tell, people are by-and-large agreeing with him and he's still fuming on about how no one actually understands his deep points and people are being mean to Sally Hemmings.

Someone needs to deploy the Reality Cudgel™.

@Ing - the discussion about the word victim is directed more at the anti-trafficking advocates, essentially telling them to shut up and let people who've been there say what they need instead of announcing what they need for them. Well-intentioned experts are very annoying.

I hate when sexual frustration and word salad mate and produce volumes of Vogon poetry.

#697

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 9:17 AM

strange gods:
Yes, of course: the tu quoque thing was indeed about you. My bad.
The rest of the hate really was, though, for the much more richly deserving Rutee.

And I see I was spectacularly wrong about kyle.
Self-published chapbooks, and everything.
So, I'm sorry in retrospect for the think-of-the-goth-children starfart. I guess.

But hey, what's wrong with stringing words together for the sake of the sound of the words strung together? *shrug* Maybe I'm just inured after 20 years of Phish lyrics.

#698

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 9:22 AM

...and, possibly, the behavioral and neurophysiological corollaries of listening to Phish for 20 years.

#699

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 9:27 AM

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue post a poem, but oh well. This is the *hate* thread after all.

So. Some stuff I hate.

when you've sat in the dirt
surrounded by the cousins, aunties, uncles
brothers, sisters
talking language, teaching culture
when you've sung elvis songs together
to a busted guitar
while the great emu rises in the sky
when you've shared stewed kangaroo
shot that day
from a cast iron pot over the fire
when you've curled up to sleep by the fire
a dingo at your back against the wind
when you've met the woman who lost every male in her family to police murder
and she's your age
when the cops come out to the camp after knockoff, in their department toyotas
and roar around the camp
at 3am, searchlights blazing
running over dogs, throwing beer bottles, filling the air with dust
the cops, not some random townsfolk
for the third time that week
and no-one cares
when you see the scared 13 year old shoved - shoved, so he stumbles
into the magistrates court
by the hate-filled pig-eyed white man-mountain guard
for the third time that week
and no-one cares

when you tell the girl behind the counter at the fish & chip shop
that you're going out of town to camp by the river
and she says "don't do that - the boongs will eat you!"
and she's your age

when you see the half dozen blackfellas
sitting quietly under the only tree in town
sharing a flagon
then go into the pub
full to brim with whites (male)
getting skullfucked
and bitching about "drunk abbos"

when you've met the stolen children
and the mothers stolen from
when you've met the man who remembers
the first white man in the district
and the white man
when you know the district was only seized de jure
in the 1930s
and de facto - well,
uneasy truces
accommodations
we'll have this
and you stay out, over there

when your favourite T-shirt
attracts twitching roid rage cases
barely contained
asking - "do you know what those colours mean?"
and you reply - "yes,
do you?"

when you share their chewing herb
and 40,000 years of history
rushes through your body, stretching out
from fingertips to coast
north, south, east and west
and it strikes you
this is happening now
not a hundred or a thousand years ago
this war never ended
people - PEOPLE! - are still hunted down
like those camp dogs
bashed to death
in the streets and river beds
by the state and its minions
and good white boys
get a rap on the knuckles
while the judge editorializes
about "camp culture"

then it's hard to be still
to maintain equanimity
civility
when suburbanites wail
"oh, it all happened so long ago
too bad, so sad, you lose, get real,
deal,
and can't we all just get along?"

the welsh/basque blood rage rises
almost blinding
keyboard pounding with my heart

to scream
to imprint all that you have witnessed
trivial as it is
to those who live it
every day

NO.

#700

Posted by: Sven DiMilo Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 9:29 AM

this here would be a good spot for a portcullis IMO

#701

Posted by: Dania Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 9:30 AM

Maybe I'm just inured after 20 years of Phish lyrics.

Heh.

I like Phish.

#702

Posted by: drbunsen Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 9:35 AM

so when on the third day of our fledgling relationship, sweet xxxx*, you responded to all fifteen of my text messages

Mmmm, are you quite sure it was your religion that scared her off, Romeo?

#703

Posted by: SC OM Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 9:47 AM

And "argument for argument's sake" is ... not quite what I'm doing. I'm arguing for my own elucidation.

Arguing with Sven above was more along the lines of "for argument's sake," and I was happy to drop that and leave the guy alone as soon as something more interesting came up.

Serving your own desires at the expense of human lives. For shame.

Every action with the ability to hurt or otherwise sanction must be justified. Not just to me, but to the world.

Nope.

A statement like "I don't like this art" is obviously justified on its face. You don't like it, there's not much you can do about it, and there's no objective reason why you should like it.

So "I don't like this art" has no ability to hurt or sanction?

A statement like "this isn't good art" is not obviously justified.

CJO's whole post was its justification. He described all of the ways in which he doesn't think it's good art.

One's own personal norms may or may not be conservative of societal norms.

Correct! Same with aesthetic judgments.

Don't start a poem with "and" appears to serve a conservative standard for the standard's sake.

No. You haven't established that CJO represents any standard but his own. "Don't start a poem with 'and'" written to someone in that anonymous internet way is the same as saying "I can't stand poems that start with 'and'" (hmm, the beginning of a poem...?).

#704

Posted by: PZ Myers Author Profile Page | January 29, 2011 9:53 AM

Thread closing! Remerge and group hug time!

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