Another Brutal Takedown Of The “Rick Perry Is A Stealth-Jihadist” Nonsense
Posted by ZIP on Monday, August 22, 2011, at 6:15 pm | Tweet
Pamela Geller is not doing herself any favors for the other work she does by these distortions. When she is found corrupting the facts on one point, people will doubt anything else she posts. Not a good idea.
Couldn’t agree more, like the boy who cried wolf. Why her and Spencer are choosing to fall on this sword is beyond me.
Read this early last week somewhere, loved the great work done here, have link saved to throw right back at others who try to use this BS against Perry too…already used it too.
I’ve had my fill of Geller…glad for some stands she takes, but don’t go there anymore.
When someone wants to accuse a guy like Perry, who’s the most pro-Israel governor in the country and an evangelical Christian to boot, of being a friggen stealth jihadist, there’s a 99% chance of looking like a kook especially if you’re playing fast and loose with the facts.
Geller really crushed her remaining credibility on this one IMO.
“Isalamo”, thanks Gov perry, the task of preparing the curriculum for Texas schools was shoved down the throats of the entire house, untouched pleas to up date the image of the Hispanic being the 4th poorest counties in the USA to have a bite of relish of their contributions, even if only to teach LBJ Spanish but of course who can deny that Muslims and their faith got to go to the head of the class and your such a kind and decent gov that the house recently was receiving praise from the Muslim community for doing such awesome things by who else than the southern district Reps from Texas at their state capitol.
i hope so ZIP!!!!! @ your comment
Totally agree with you, to me it’s beneath contempt.
It won’t be forgotten either…bet we’re not alone whatsoever.
This is an extremely well-written column by an historian as opposed to a self-proclaimed “citizen journalist,” and he rips her apart piece by piece, without resorting to hyperbole or misrepresentation, which appear to be her only two tools. Interestingly, in this and his previous essay he carefully separates Geller from Spencer, treating them differently, even though the two have joined themselves at the hip. It’ll be equally interesting, therefore, to see how Spencer replies.
@ Zip & DG Geller is moving spiralling towards laughing stock status. Sad because she was doing great work on GZ Mosque, but lately everything has to be viewed with great skepticism.
Haven’t gone to AS in a looong time stuff like this is why…
ZIP says: August 22, 2011 at 11:49 am
Yeah, I don’t understand this either. It just doesn’t make any sense. If the actual school literature refutes the accusation, I think I would stop right there and maybe roll it back. It isn’t hard to find out what is actually printed. This attack on Rick Perry should really hurting them if people will bother to check out their accusations.
The Israelis in Israel that are aware of American politics, support Rick Perry and Evangelical Christians in America. We, Israelis, have always supported Christians and protected their holy sites, unlike muzzies who defiled the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Rick Perry, as the article says, received the Defender of Jerusalem Award, which means he is not a pro-muzzie. Debbie Schlussel is also an emotional, illogical shreiking harpy with respect to Rick Perry’s so-called pro-Sharia outlook.
I quit going to Schlussel’s site long ago too…don’t bother with either of them anymore…waste of time to me.
Laughing-Stock indeed…perfect description.
When I read this information at this site early last week, I retweeted it early and often…plus put it out there for someone at AWD’s site to refute what they were claiming about Perry regarding this…still waiting for a reply ~ (lol)
Thanks for posting. The more info we have, the better.
Personally, I think the wrong questions are being asked.Supposing there are no stealth jihad or sharia intentions. One of mine, why is a dubious history of Islam being embedded in a public school curriculum at all? Because a wealthy friend of the governor requested it? Kids are hardly taught American history these days. This is a small minority of people with one way street demands of tolerance and understanding. Sorry, Perry is at least ignorant and naive vis a vis islam. Unfortunately he isn’t alone in the world of politics. GW, who also supported Israel, was big on Islamic victimhood and outreach. How is that working?
As for Pam Geller, wow, outstanding activist patriots have to be taken with a grain of salt but a professional pol who is cozy with a powerful Islamic charity is not to be scrutinized? Holy cats, isn’t that how we got Ubama? When Pam or Spencer say something stinks I don’t want air freshener, I want answers. This article does not provide them.
Vag I want more info on Perry’s relationship with Grover Norquist (who has some very dubious ties to Islam) But I saw what reportedly got put into the history books & I don’t think it’s out of bounds..
The fact of the matter is that Islam exists & we must teach our future generations about it. I’m under no illusions about stealth Jihad there is one going on. I just don’t think Perry is turning a blind eye to it.
I think GW Bush was far worse on this subject than what I see in Perry so far.
Yeah, Norquist is another one who deserves more attention.Listen, I know there isn’t going to be a perfect candidate and was all set to jump on the Perry bandwagon. This Aga Khan relationship makes me queasy and I’m not going to shoot the messengers before all the pros and cons are laid out.
I posted the actual school literature in an earlier post, and invited people to judge for themselves. For this my sanity was called into question..
It was here http://www.saisd.net/admin/curric/sstudies/mhcp/mhcproject.html
And now it is not, what a surprise
Personally after reading it, I found it to be the usual Taqiya, the actual school literature DOES NOT refute the accusation and the fact that Perry would allow/enable this to be taught, for the sake of getting the texas muslim vote tells me he is not the man for the job. Perry is not pro-muslim, he is pro-Perry and America can ill afford another sell-out pretty boy narassist in the Oval office
So give him a good look over before you give him your vote*. and remember the only thing better than having one manchurian candidate….is having two.
* So the advice is almost four years late, it’s still good
vagabond trader: You should shoot the messenger the moment you discover they lied to you, such as Geller did.
D. Austin What I read was pretty much nuts & bolts generic Islam. Not flattering not hate inspiring.
I admit I may not have read an accurate assessment. I’m just not convinced the Aga Khan is as dubious as many others in the Islamic community. CAIR for instance ISNA & MAS are of much greater concern to me.
I’m not defending Perry I still have questions but “Cause PAM GELLER said so” quit having any meaning quite some time ago…
Every politician in the west has been courted and communed with by some Muslim group at some point. When it comes to Islam, most politicians are as dumb as posts. Perry is no exception. He knows no more than W did. A deer in the oil ticks headlights.
Well said, but that link to the curriculum is broken everywhere I’ve seen it.
I’ve discovered no such thing. Some of the anti Geller screeds I’ve been seeing are reminiscent of lgf. “Shrieking harpie” right out of the selrahC lexicon.
“When Pamela Geller claims that the excerpts she posted are “forced upon unsuspecting students attending Texas public schools,” she is, at best, mistaken. At worst, it’s a blatant falsehood.”
I believe she and Charlie of LGF fame had a dustup? Recently, she went after Gates of Vienna – albeit, claiming they defamed her. Now, she’s after Gov. Perry with less than steller arguments. I stopped visiting her site when it became clear she had to always had to be a victim – picked on, abused, and so hurt. Same with Schlussel (sp?). As a woman I can say what few men can – I detest women that have to be the victim, screetch to make their point, and want everyone to gather round in solidarity and hold their hand/nodding in agreement. Most of all, I detest women that create turmoil behind every door they enter.
As for the nomination for the next election….it’s a long time before Nov. 2012. We’ll change nominees a dozen times before election day. We’ll get there, after sorting through every rumor and smearjob article for the truth.
This may, or may not have some helpful info.
Ten years after ISLAMIC JIHADIS murdered us by the thousands on a September morning, I for one have had about all I can stand of being told that “islam is a religion of peace” even as they continue to KILL US every chance that they get. Rick Perry is one of those people who has said that “islam is a religion of peace”, he is WRONG, it is NOT. It isn’t crazy or ridiculous to hope for a president who would resist, rather than enable or encourage, islamic conquest of our civilization and anyone who thinks that a potential president should NOT be properly vetted, clearly has learned NOTHING since 2008 and THAT is “beneath contempt”. Perry’s fans are turning out to be as bad as Obama Zombies and Paulbots in that they go all unhinged if anyone criticizes their guy. Grow up, NOBODY who wants to lead this country should be exempt from scrutiny. Stop falling for pithy soundbites.
You said it all ~ in a nutshell.
Couldn’t agree more.
Geller/Spencer/Schsuell(sp?)…….making a mountain out of a molehill. Aga Khan’s StepMom was Rita Hayworth. And You Know Dr. Zudhi Zasser??? Lt. In Navy, M.D. Made “”THE THIRD JIHAD”"” HE is a Moderate Muslim. Repeat MODERATE! My Facebook ((And some other friends and former College Mates were Moderate Muslims) SO from Dr Zudhi’s Website Comes this article…. SMEARING Rick Perry …..PLEASE Take a Look http://www.aymennjawad.org/10155/smearing-rick-perry
And BTW The Third Jihad is Excellent. Perry/Rubio 2012…
God Zilla rules
A huge thank you gal for putting that information out here for others to read and digest…it’s more than important.
It’s also a keeper for future use.
just wait.. I’m going to read that.. gimme a sec..
When you run a particular search the pages that are scrubbed have cached pages and this is an example of what was scrubbed. Why scrub everything if its not a problem?
SAISDTEARegion XX Databases and Digital Resources Home / Muslim Histories and Culture Project / Muslim Histories and Culture Project Teacher’s Zone Parent’s Corner Technology GrantsLinks Photo Album Social Studies Moodle In This Area Session 1 Session 2 Session 3 Session 4 Session 5 Session 6 Session 7 Session 8 Session 9 Lessons & Strategies What’s New? History Fair Info National History Day Interactive ConstitutionIgnite! Retrieval System Reading Resources What is the Muslim Histories and Culture Project (MHCP)? The Muslim Histories and Cultures Project was born out of discussions between His Highness The Aga Khan and Texas Governor Rick Perry during the Summer 2002, when The Aga Khan was in Houston for the dedication of a new Ismaili Center. Both His Highness and Governor Perry agreed on the need for Texans to have a greater understanding of Islamic culture, and subsequently brought UT-Austin President Larry Faulkner into the discussions. Located in the state capital, Faulkner’s campus is well positioned to accomplish these goals. A series of meetings followed, with the project ultimately finding a home in UT-Austin’s College of Liberal Arts, under the guidance of Dean Richard W. Lariviere, in association with UT Liberal Arts (UT-LA), the college’s teacher preparation program.
In April 2004, the Aga Khan Foundation (AKF) and UT-Austin finalized a grant proposal that created the partnership that became known as the Muslim Histories and Cultures Program (MHC). Much has happened since the inception of the partnership. Creation and implementation of a model was of prime importance. MHC recruited and directly trained 80 teachers affecting approximately 15,150 students of World History and World Geography in ten key Texas districts during the two sessions conducted in 2005 and 2006. The purpose is two-fold 1) to fulfill Governor Rick Perry’s desire to better educate Texas teachers on Muslim topics and 2) to train teachers to use a cultural lens approach to understanding other cultures. Governor Perry was instrumental in getting this program off the ground. The curriculum for this project was developed at Harvard University and modified at the University of Texas at Austin. The responsibilities of the participants are:
to attend the 10 seminars and complete the assigned readings. to attend the January, April, and June meetings in Austin. to create lessons concerning Islamic topics with a “cultural lens” approach tied to their grade level to share with other teachers.
Click on a Link Below to Visit a Session:
Session One: Sources of Tradition Session Two: Muhammad through History Session Three: The Qur’an Session Four: Thr Qur’an: Major Themes Session Five: Communities of Interpretation Session Six: Communities of Interpretation Session Seven: Rise and Reach of Muslim Civilizations Session Eight: Religion, Politics & Modernity: Competing Visions of Muslim Societies from the 18th & 19th Centuries Session Nine: Islamic Modernism Lesson Plans and Strategies
Teacher’s Zone Find strategies ranging from hands-on to graphic organizers that are ready to print out and use with your lesson plans! The Zone also has information on how to incorporate different types of social studies skills including reading and writing connections. Don’t miss our TAKS area for the most up-to-date information on TAKS and the upcoming EOC assessments. Our strategies have been designed for teachers by teachers with all learners in mind!
The above post was from the school districts website and every link has been removed. But all can be found with a specific search…. have to recall what I did. All those pages can be found.
“I can trust a 60-something-year-old world history teacher with a Master’s Degree to read books from various points of view and reach his own conclusions.”
“what would have been helpful is if Ms. Geller had informed her readers that the Aga Khan Foundation was not part-owner of Bank al-Habib until two years after the murder of Daniel Pearl.”
when is any time ok?
“the Western-friendly Khan Foundation is probably a preferable alternative when it comes to who controls Pakistan’s largest commercial bank.”
Don’t we all hope so.. I feel better already..
““The Syrian Government and the Aga Khan Development Network (AKDN) yesterday signed three landmark agreements designed to strengthen collaboration in the areas of microfinance, healthcare, and cultural tourism.” Syria’s Prime Minister, Mohamed Naji Al-Otri, and the Aga Khan signed the agreements. The agreements involved recognition of the First Microfinance Institution (FMFI), part of the Aga Khan Agency for Microfinance, “as the first microfinance institution to operate in the country.” Between 2003 and 2008, it spent $40 million to develop business in Syria.”
because we all know Syria is peachy keen even without the ‘source’ CC needs..
“The Aga Khan leads a community of 15 million Ismaili Muslims living in some 25 countries around the world and is a direct descendant of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him and his family).”
PBUH.. sounds awesome that he gets the mohammad treatment..
“In some cases, this means working with repressive governments. I will point out that this is not an uncommon practice by philanthropic organizations that represent ethnic or religious minorities that live under repressive regimes. The American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee (JDC), for example, worked with the government of brutal dictator Nicolae Ceausescu, pumping money into Romania in order to create social welfare institutions to benefit the Jewish community in that country. The JDC also partnered with the tyrannical Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe to provide medical training and care, and with Fidel Castro’s government to provide non-sectarian medical care in Cuba.”
conflating Jews with muslims.. no problem there at all for CC
“I’m merely pointing out that, for any organization tasked with protecting the interests of persecuted minority groups, having to deal with unsavory governments is a simple fact of life.”
I have destroyed the baha’i myth of only being iranian only persecuted minority that just wants universal peace.. New World Order/Unity in Diversity messianic muslims that are the trojan horse for islamic destruction of Judeo-Christianity… baha’i deal with unsavory governments.. to promote islam as equal to Christianity and Christianity’s root Judaism… which is bullshit.. Dealing with unsavory governments is wrong.. it’s pretty simple.. what a sad excuse by CC
“But what is not legitimate is to single Perry out for having an association with Norquist on anti-tax issues, when almost every other GOP presidential contender has done the same. That’s just asinine.”
doesn’t make it correct.. AT ALL… shame on ANYONE associated with a TRAITOR with a shtick on taxes..
“The Ismailis are a persecuted Shia minority in Saudi Arabia; indeed, Perry’s meeting with Khan could not have won him many friends there. Rather than reaching out – as both presidents Bush and Obama mistakenly did – to problematic organizations associated with the Muslim Brotherhood’s expressly political agenda, Perry’s choice to engage with a more ‘progressive’ group is a good sign.”
HEY GUYS!!! Progressivism is GREAT!!! no problem whatsoever.. It’s not like they don’t read THE EXACT SAME QURAN…
When it comes to islam, you had better listen up.. there is no good at all..
The only reason the ‘progressive’ strains exist is to infiltrate for mohammad’s call to exterminate by any way possible…
that’s why shades of muslims exist.. if one way doesn’t work, the poor persecuted muslims will generate sympathy to worm their way in..
you have been warned..
you want to win so badly, fine..
good luck with the compromise.. hows that been working out so far?
Why scrub every single link from the site? I can only find 2 out of several for pages that have been cached. Here’s the other. Try all the links, all are gone. http://126.96.36.199/search/srpcache
One last post. Just because you don’t have all the facts doesn’t mean Pam has no credibility in your eyes. Check out all of these photos, videos and articles about Perry and islam.
Geller has no credibility at all. Check out this:
I agree with @ vagabond trader
The Holy War is on people believe it or not. Discrediting Pam Geller and Robert Spencer has been a top priority of CAIR and other Islamic organizations. Please reconsider your opinions on this subject.
We can’t teach our children to read and write, why the f!@k are we teaching them about Islam, which is an all inclusive religion that includes a religious based government and religious based judical system, called Sharia law.
THEY ARE THE OPPOSITE OF OUR CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS.
I am protected by the Constitution from all other religions. I am protected from ISLAM, taking over my way of life and freedom. But listening to you all, Pam and Robert are whacked zealots. Bravo.
So her ex is a dirtbag, wonder why she divorced him///
Sad that so many Americans are not familiar with taqiyya. Or Islam.
vagabond trader: It says she was co-owner, yet without evidence you pin the crimes on her ex. You make excuse for everything she says and does but you don’t afford her critics the same courtesy.
Why are you removing the link I posted? I’m confused.
More info needed, such as her actual involvement and the outcome. Your link does not indicate either. Ones name on the business of a spouse is a long stretch to a guilty verdict.
I still read Robert Spencer’s blogsite. I’ve bought his books. His research is, without doubt, impeccable and well sourced. Geller has started way too many wars in the bloggosphere. I simply don’t care to participate in the theatrics.
As far as Perry and this dustup – it will be digested, researched, and sorted out.
The GOP as a whole has the Grover Norquist problem. Even Allen West has, of necessity, had some association with Norquist.
I won’t discredit Robert Spencer or Pamela Geller. Neither will I demonize them. I count them as friends.
Spencer and Geller are calling attention to the stealth jihad. Fine.
But real politic demands that we understand that an electable GOP candidate who fully “gets it” about Islam is an impossibility at this point. Furthermore, Grover Norquist is so entrenched in the GOP that he’s not just going to be discredited between now and November 2012.
Do I completely trust the Ismailis? Nope. Are there worse groups of Muslims? Absolutely.
In my view, the “Rick Perry” Texas curriculum is much more balanced that most curricula throughout the United States when it comes to the topic of Islam. At least as far as I can tell, Susan Douglass, convert to Islam and married to a Wahhabist, didn’t have a hand in it. She DOES have a hand in so much curricula throughout the United States.
I am sick of holding my nose for the lesser evil. I will not vote for a candidate who does not get islam. 9/11 was 10 years ago, we must demand these pols acquaint themselves with the ideology and quit fronting for it.
vagabond trader: I did not charge guilt. However, the DA implicated the ownership, which includes Pamela Geller, and it’s difficult for me to believe that as an owner she was ignorant of how her business was run. Perhaps it’s easy for you to believe it. Regardless, stories such as this and others cast the great champion of freedom in a much different light than she casts herself and they give me cause to question both her judgment and her credibility. More importantly, stories such as this should give her good reason not to frame guilt-by-association arguments, because her former(?) associations don’t do much to help her case.
Okay…. here’s some non-fringe articles about Perry & islam http://www.statesman.com/
Governor Rick Perry is Fine with Building a Mosque on the Ground Zero 9/11 site http://salon.glenrose.net/
In 2008, Perry helped expand the Muslim Histories and Culture Project, a teacher-training program spearheaded by Texas Ismailis that introduces Islamic history and culture curricula into Texas schools.
“I have supported this program from the very beginning, because we must bridge the gap of understanding between East and West if we ever hope to experience a future of peace and prosperity,” Perry said at the signing ceremony.
Demonizing Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer in order to defend Rick Perry’s indefensible status as an islamoblow is a sure fire sign that you are a useful idiot for the jihad, an islamoblow and a Perrydrone. It doesn’t matter how hard you bray against people who are actually trying to educate the public about islamic conquest, your islamic overlords will kill, forcibly convert or enslave you regardless when they get the chance. Their beloved pedophile prophet and demonic book compel them to. And that would be the same pedophile prophet and demonic book that your precious Aga Khan and his followers worship. Aga Khan has stated that it should not be permitted for people to publish cartoons of the pedophile prophet, he has said that islam people should not be free to criticize islam. It is the SHARIA that mandates these things.
why is Perry saying East and West wouldn’t it be better to say the middle- east and West at the signing ceremony?
As people can see and by running their own searches too, there are a ton of articles about Perry’s cozy relationship with islam. How this became all about Pam Geller being a liar and discredited is very very strange. She is just one of many people who has presented the information. Why zero in on her when she is in no way alone in her editorials on the subject.
Dave Stein at CounterContempt purports to refute the information Pamela Geller has provided about Rick Perry’s questionable associations. It would be reassuring if he had actually proven Perry to be clear of suspicion in these areas, but unfortunately that is not the case.
1. The curriculum.
Stein contends that the Atlas Shrugs reader who provided information about the Texas curriculum about Islam that the Aga Khan Foundation developed “was quoting from the abstracts (summaries) of the sessions that the teachers who volunteer for the Muslim Histories and Culture Project (MHCP) attend,” and not from the curriculum itself. He assures us that a “a 60-something-year-old world history teacher with a Master’s Degree” can “read books from various points of view and reach his own conclusions,” and that “the training involved no pro-Islam proselytizing.”
It is odd that the teacher sessions would involve whitewashing of Islamic teaching and of its historical record, but that the curriculum itself would not, and Stein doesn’t explain how that happened. Nor does he explain why we should trust his 60-something-year-old world history teacher. And even if his world history teacher is extremely knowledgeable about Islam, the material presented at Atlas Shrugs did not involve proselytizing, which he assures us is not happening, but whitewashing, which he does not address. And while I would love to take his word for it, arguments from authority are the weakest of all arguments, and he ultimately presents nothing to assure anyone that the questionable material in the teacher sessions is not making its way into the classroom. After all, what are the teacher sessions for, if not to train the teachers on how to present the material in the classroom?
He also says that there was nothing in the seminar abstracts “that even remotely qualifies as pro-Sharia.” Yet the material we do see presents Muhammad as a benign moral teacher, saying nothing about his teachings of hatred, warfare and subjugation, and also whitewashes the oppressive history of Muslim Spain, and other matters. To dismiss concern about this by saying it’s not “pro-Sharia” is too narrow. The heavily slanted and wholly positive view of Islam that Islamic supremacist groups have insinuated into textbooks and curricula fosters ignorance of the nature of the jihad threat and complacency about it, and provides a basis for proselytization from other materials. Ignore or minimize this at your own risk.
2. The Aga Khan and the Ismailis.
Stein says that “if Robert Spencer – whose entire raison d’être is investigating and tracking Islamists – didn’t know about these ‘new facts’ until last week, well…certainly Rick Perry can be excused for not knowing them as well.” No, he can’t. I am not entering into partnership with the Aga Khan. If I were, I would certainly vet him thoroughly first, and Perry should have. As far as not knowing about these issues, I wish I could keep up with all the violent and stealthy jihad activity going on in the world, but there is just too much of it, and the purchase of a tainted bank and investment in a tainted regime by the Aga Khan is simply not something that is going to become an issue until someone like Rick Perry becomes a viable presidential candidate, and everyone starts rushing to declare him the perfect candidate without properly vetting him. Perry should have vetted the Aga Khan, and we must vet Rick Perry.
3. The Habib Bank.
Stein points out that “the Aga Khan Foundation was not part-owner of Habib Bank until two years after the murder of Daniel Pearl,” and dismisses all concern about it accordingly, even though the bank is in Pakistan, a country Stein himself terms “about as loyal and trustworthy an ally as a pet scorpion.” Does Stein have information to the effect that the Aga Khan dismissed everyone who had been with the bank before he bought it, and thoroughly cleansed it of all al-Qaeda ties? Would such a thing even be possible to do in Pakistan?
4. The Aga Khan’s investments in Syria.
Regarding the Aga Khan’s investments in Syria, Stein contends that “‘General Moustapha Sharba’ accusation is found only on the ‘everything but the kitchen sink’ conspiracy-theory site of Mark Mitchell.” Actually there is a picture of Sharba with Ismaili leaders on an Ismaili website. Why doesn’t Stein mention that?
Then he dismisses the Aga Khan investments in Syria by pointing out that the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee (JDC) did humanitarian work in countries ruled by tyrannical regimes, and challenges Pamela Geller to show that the Aga Khan money went to terrorist activity. However, the fact that one group does a foolish thing doesn’t excuse someone else for doing the same foolish thing. In any case, the JDC was not endorsing the Ceaucescu regime by giving that aid; however, the Aga Khan worked directly with the Assad regime. Aiding oppressed people in spite of their regime is not the same thing as working with that regime, thereby freeing it up to spend its own funds on terrorist or other nefarious activity. Syria is a state sponsor of terrorism. If that means anything at all, no one should be investing there.
Stein points out that Norquist is ubiquitous and powerful. Granted. But Perry and Norquist are very close. Perry has raised funds for Norquist. They have vacationed together. Until I see Bachmann, West, and the others Stein mentioned doing the same thing, I will continue to raise questions about Perry’s closeness to Norquist.
maybe because medio-este will turn to medio-loco by the spanish language.
If you don’t like when people play the guilt by association thing with the Norway killer quoting you and Geller then why do you do it with Perry and Norquist? Seems a tad bit hypocritical, eh?
And if everyone associated with Norquist was a sekrit stealth jihadist then we’d be living in a Saudi-style sharia state by now.
Zip, old pal, you sound like Charles Johnson.
Norway killer is a psychopath who quoted a lot of people, including Barack Obama, favorably. He said he wanted to partner with jihadists. His criticized me for working legally and peacefully. Those who think that I inspired his murders, as you told me in an email, have to ignore the fact that I never have endorsed or approved of violence, have always advocated peaceful and legal activity, and also the fact that there is no actual ideological coherence to his “manifesto.” Also, I never associated with him. I never heard of him until he shot people.
Now compare Perry and Norquist. Perry knows Norquist. Perry has fundraised for Norquist. He has vacationed with Norquist. It isn’t as if Norquist started using Perry’s name without Perry’s knowledge or consent, as Breivik used mine. Perry’s association with Norquist is something he entered into knowingly and voluntarily. And so I think the question is valid — what will Perry do if Norquist starts calling in favors and asks him to help out some stealth Islamic supremacist? And why the heat and fury, such that we aren’t even allowed to ask such questions?
I;ve read some of Pam Geller’s material, and I’ve come to respect her, mainly because she backs her accusations with references, facts, etc.
but her attacks on Rick Perry has made me lose almost all respect and credibility for her work.
She’s entering the loony zone with her insane accusations against Rick Perry, and losing a lot of people who respected much of her work, and the fact that she doesn’t even realise this makes me think she’s lost it…
Of course Rick Perry is a dhimmi tool, it’s incredibly obvious, & btw that Islam-promoting curriculum’s shocking. Should never, ever be allowed in the public schools.
Pamela’s knight in shining armor riding to her defense. Give me a break Robert, you’re doing the same BS to Perry (actually Geller is, you’re just stuck defending her drivel for reasons only known to you) that was done to you after Norway.
You two have made a mockery of the anti-jihad movement.
I’m very confused now. I thought we are all on the same page. I thought everyone agreed its important to vet a presidential candidate. I’m not understanding this obama-like thing going on with Perry. The web is jam packed full of articles about Perry in a very worrisome light. Pamela is certainly not alone on that. Seems she is actually a bit late on the topic. Somehow she is being singled out. I don’t get that at all.
Its been known for a long time that Norquist is an arabist. Pam didn’t suddenly make that up. What is going on?
Why the vitriol and nasty insinuations? And what makes you think they pass for a refutation of my rebuttal points above? I have given reasons for my position all along. I haven’t seen much of that from your side, and your latest response illustrates that again. I explained why I didn’t find Stein’s points convincing, and in response you hurl insults and hint at worse. I expect that kind of thing from the left and the Islamic supremacists. Coming from you it surprises me.
Why do you and your allies in this weird conflict keep blaming Geller, as if she is the only one who has raised any questions about Perry, and why do you keep repeating that I am following her lead “blindly,” instead of dealing honestly with the points I have raised? Why this National Enquirer overtone to your analysis? You think it’s some kind of response to engage in character assassination and nasty false charges instead of refuting me on the facts? You working for Kos now or something?
Wow. That is some strong koolaid the Perryists be swillin’! Why should Rick Perry be above scrutiny? Why should he be exempt from vetting JUST LIKE BARACK OBAMA WAS? Why are Perry fans acting just like Obama fans? If I knew nothing about Rick Perry, the rabid fanatical allegiance to him alone would be enough to make me take pause and mistrust him. People screaming outrage that anyone dare question the man (just like they did for Obama) make me even MORE suspicious of him than I would be otherwise.
I’ve been following the back and forth on this since Pamela published her article on 8/18. It would appear that if I am not in total lock-step with Geller/Spencer groupthink then I am a dhimmi tool. Sorry folks; the groupthink thing doesn’t work for me. The idea that Perry is “pro-sharia” is just nuts and whoever is pushing that view has lost all cred with me.
Well you know Huckfunn, I just mentioned that I was concerned about Perry’s ties to Islam on this this site last week and found that if “I am not in total lock-step with” WZ pro-Perry “groupthink then I am a” Ron Paul supporter and a Moron, as well as not having vetted my sources. I know Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer, have been to many protests with them, like the CAIR dinner in D.C. last summer, the Ground Zero mosque protest last 9/11 and the protest to support Rifqa Bary in a park near the Columbus, OH courthouse when her dad was trying to kill her. Robert and Pamela walk to the walk and talk the talk.
Zip, I’ve come to respect you in the last year since I’ve been reading your fine website but on this one, you are way out of line. But I recall you promoting Perry several months ago and I was really hoping he might be our guy. But we don’t need another four years of a president who doesn’t want to hurt Muslim feelings, at the expense of the rest of us. (Cue Clinton, both Bushes and Obama.)
Isabella the Crusader
Ya know Zilla and Robert, I’m wondering too if CJ and Kos have paid people to go around to trash Pam. If she were the only one to make the claims and have nothing to back up the claims, then okay, that would discredit her for sure. BUT there is so much smoke spewing out everywhere about Perry that one has to be honest enough to assume there might be a fire.
This isn’t about lock step with Pamela. All the sudden she is being singled out when she is one of many who have wondered in public whats up with Perry and all his rather unsavory associations. Exactly like drinking the obama kool aid. I’m really surprised people are lashing out against Pam rather than doing more research on Perry. VERY strange!
Please Allen West, please run.
I agree with you, Teacake, somethin’ ain’t right, and it isn’t us.
Maybe should switch focus to Perry’s take on illegal immigration. He’s the one running for president, not Pam.
Zip working for Kos or something….
LMAO…all night long, that’s the laugh of the year, pretty pathetic attempt at a slam to-boot!
My thoughts exactly. Zip, Perry and everyone but Geller/Spencer are working for Kos, CJ and the muzz. Illustrates my point. Laughable… no cred.
When it come to illegal immigration on Perry then I agree, fire away.
But this secret stealth jihadist conspiracy stuff isn’t doing anyone any favors. Especially if they want to be taken even a tad bit seriously. Looking at you Spencer.
I don’t think that was Spencer… the writing style was way off
Spencer would never bring CJ into the conversation…
Spencer: I’m surprised you ask “Why the vitriol and nasty insinuations?” when you prefaced your first reply to me with these words, “Zip, old pal, you sound like Charles Johnson.” No insinuation there, just lots of vitriol, old pal.
Ironic, though, that you invoke Charles Johnson who made his reputation by advancing one guilt-by-association argument after another, which at the end of the day is all you have against Perry — guilt by association — the fallacious line of argument that libs used to attach you and Pamela to Anders Breivik, the man who slaughtered 77 innocents.
But speaking of CJ (whom everyone knows I hate with a passion), he has documented numerous accounts of your associate Pamela Geller modifying content on her website to remove the appearance of culpability; here are just two:
I personally want no association with any of that and I would think that you wouldn’t either. Then again, Anders Breivik cited you 64 times in his works, which I understand is more than anyone else. That’s quite a record for you and it’s conceivable that you don’t mind your association to him or the guilt that accompanies it.
So go ahead and advance your guilt by association arguments against Perry. But don’t expect me or anyone else to listen to you when you cry GBA vis-à-vis your association with Anders Breivik and his reliance on you and Geller. After all, with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. Personally, I can live with that standard. It appears, however, that you cannot.
It was him. There’s more behind the scenes. Take my word for it.
Perry doesn’t have to be a stealth jihadist for this to be a problem. If you are comfortable with inequality for yourself and your children because some politicians are uncomfortable saying no to Muslims when they bitch and whine when they are not getting preferential treatment, then by all means, vote Perry into office without vetting him or using your head. Muslims are not about being equal with th rest of us. Their religion won’t allow it.If you don’t think this is happening at a theater near you, do a Google search for CAIR shakedowns of police departments around our country. They have a formula for intimidating the folks who are supposed to protect us but end up watching their asses or careers and letting Muslims literally get away with murder.
Don’t attack Robert just for being the messenger.
I know some of you bloggers go back some… so you would know
i’m surprized at zips first 1 2 pacquiao punch to Spencer didnt just floor him he kept justifing the air he breathes, seems he had to spread some of that white wash he knows so much of. feels good to have a weasel for dinner.
This whole thing is so sick and sad. The Muslims must be laughing their asses off.
you don’t like muslims… but feel compelled to capitalize it every time…
capitalizing… muslim or islam or mohammed …is a sign of respect…
do you respect muslims?
secret stealth jihadist conspiracy stuff isn’t doing anyone any favors
That is what I’m not understanding. Perry is openly promoting islam to the public school system and with other business associations. What his knowledge of islam is, who knows. Are his motives innocent and naive? Perhaps, who knows. Thing is, he’s helping to spread it. If he’s an innocent tool, he is still participating in it. I provided several links that have nothing to do with Pam. Perry is very very involved in the muslim community and I’m not at all comfortable having someone who is that close to all things islam, to be president.
Its possible this is a matter of Perry’s good intentions pave the road to hell? I don’t want a president to make that sort of mistake.
Also, I did not get the impression that Pam was laying out a conspiracy on his part, but perhaps he is helping promote islam without knowing he’s being used.
Hello USA, from Australia!! If I were American, I’d vote Ron Paul.
While we can’t know Pamela’s true motivations, it sure looks to me like she’s using these hyperbolic accusations of Perry -and the very controversial and destructive headlines that top them- to increase her notoriety so she can sell more copies of her new book. If true, it’s a pretty sad day for the right-wing blogosphere.
There’s no question that ‘Atlas’ had done great things in the past, but I find her attacks on Perry to be as reprehensible as they are baseless. And I’m terribly disappointed that so many writers, heretofore highly respectable, have jumped on her bandwagon without a second thought. No one among us is so impeccable that readers should take our posts as gospel.
And last thing, beware the “straw man” fallacy now being projected by Perry’s anti-Islam scrutinizers, who now claim that they’re being “demonized” simply for vetting Perry. The question has never been whether or not Perry or any other presidential candidate should be vetted. The real question is whether or not Pamela and her band of vetters have justly and fully substantiated their conclusions (e.g. that Perry is a “stealth jihad” and/or “Fifth Column” candidate). I for one don’t find that they have. http://bokertov.typepad.com/btb/2011/08/its-been-a-long-time-since-ive-written-a-rant.html
Rick Perry is hardly the only Republican who has appeared “in the company of” Grover Norquist. Maybe the Geller & Spencer team will go after Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich next? http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2007/03/05/norquist-romney-introduced-not-endorsed/
WOW!!! This could almost be on pay-per-view.
I know he’s heavily involved in the GOP, but it is long passed time Norquist was asked by Party leaders to explain himself. His ties to various people of questionable ties, like Abdurahman Alamoudi, give me great pause. If he is in fact a convert I do want to know.
I’m of the opinion that Perry is taking the position he is taking on Islam with the general election in mind. (I.e. Wanting to appear more conventional in his thinking). However I’d be lying if I said this seemingly “close” tie to Norquist doesn’t bother me.
Obviously I don’t buy the religion of peace nonsense, but I am keenly aware it’s not wise to condemn whole religions publicly.
Some detailed research on Norquist. Check out the main page for a list which includes Bush and the Clintons.
Once again, why are people singling out Pamela when she is hardly the only one to question Perry’s background. For godsake, this man is running for president! He needs to be vetted. Lets not make the same mistake all over again by just believing the hype and glamor. All candidates must be vetted and to make Pam into a villain with ulterior motives is just absurd.
teacake: You have mistaken the issue here: No one denies the importance of vetting Perry and questioning his background, however Geller went well beyond mere questions when she declared “Rick Perry, The Stealth Jihad Candidate.” Hopefully you can see the difference between asking sincere questions in the vetting process and declaring guilt in a matter — apart from any vetting at all — which is exactly what Geller and Spencer have done.
No one has singled Geller out, except herself. She didn’t vet, she declared guilt, and in the process she has completely discredited whatever credibility she may have once possessed.
Someone sent me a link to your page today…Last week, I’d expressed interest in the strange eruption of Sudden Smearing Syndrome with Perry as the target for the tar brushes. My reader understands that generally I avoid Prez politics till ~ Jan of a given election year. However, this situation was sufficiently bizarre to draw me into a search for motives.
This intense attack, many-pronged, seemed to come out of nowhere. But even more peculiar, the contretemps was boiling furiously on the RIGHT. Say wha’? Further, these folks were employing Leftist sources for their assertions. Salon? Politico? Sheesh, since when?
Previously, another reader had sent a précis of Michelle Malkin’s new strange bedfellow in this brouhaha. Her investigative reporting has been laudable, yet she bunked down WaPo for an interview re Poison Perry. WaPo & Malkin? Alice-in-Wonderland & Thatcher? What gives? Maybe she already has her candidate chosen?
I wrote a fellow in Texas who follows state doings. He said it was payback time from the Rove gang. Later, I stumbled across a Commentary article in which Perry was defended. Whoa, Jack.
Finally, I pondered what should have been my first question: Cui Bono, Aristotle? Red State has some thoughts on the issue, of which this is a snip:
“Here is Rick Perry’s problem.
Carole Strayhorn ran against Perry in the GOP primary in 2006. She and her consultants had their butts handed to them by Perry and his team.
Karl Rove was a key player, despite his occasional denials, in Kay Bailey Hutchison’s defeat at Rick Perry’s hands last year in the Republican primary for Texas Governor.
Even Obama’s campaign guy, David Axelrod, has been crushed by Rick Perry.
So you have these guys, the Romney camp, and all their related friends on the left and the right trying to settle every score they can with Perry and his consultant, Dave Carney.
This, by the way, is why the attacks are coming fast and furious right now. This is why Republicans are leaking to reporters that Perry is too out of control or has, as Alex Castellanos put it on CNN last night, “Mad Cowboy Disease.”
Because so much of the consultant class will be shut out of the White House should Rick Perry win, their livelihoods depend on Rick Perry losing either now or in November. And frankly, for a few in the GOP consultant class, they’ll gladly see Perry lose in November just to ensure they are not shut out of a Republican White House.
For all the talk of Perry being an establishment guy, the establishment hates his guts as much as the left does. That’s one reason the base finds him so endearing. See, for example, this more expansive column by Matt Lattimer on the Rove v. Perry history, which tracks with my own thinking on this.
The Perry campaign will have to withstand a lot to keep standing. This, more than any other reason, is why Perry cannot be considered the front runner just yet. It’s going to take weeks of this to see if he can hold up and hold up his polling. Keep in mind that the Republicans and Democrats are both playing at cross purposes with Perry right now…”
That snip has an embedded link for “Matt Lattimer” if you click the URL. I don’t remember the gist of if now.
The whole post is informative, especially for ppl like me who have enough knowledge of the insiders to fill a thimble & still have room for Karl Rove’s heart.
This “Horse Race” theme seems to be a weekly update. I look forward to more.