Behavior OnLine - Chat Transcript Mar. 28, 1999

CHAT TRANSCRIPT - Mar. 28, 1999

14:59:38 JohnSuler contact me through email, Judy (
14:59:55 JohnSuler Hello Nancy
15:00:09 JohnSuler The universal (Greenwich) time is 20
15:00:10 dr-bob But it's 02:58 *somewhere*! :-)
15:00:17 Judy-K Thanks! I am interested.
15:00:20 george Hi John, this is my first time. I'm trying to get the hang of it.
15:00:57 dr-bob Dori, that or chaos.
15:01:01 Javier-Salazar Hello John. I think i must introduce myself, i m a venezuelan psychology student (pre-graduate), working on a thesis about identity in virtual communities
15:01:29 JohnSuler to whisper to someone, use the whisper box and select the username
15:01:35 Javier-Salazar and also, this is my first time
15:01:39 Dori Thanks, John.
15:01:39 JohnSuler Hello Noemi
15:01:42 Dr-Mike Dori, I was quiet before for 5 minutes (a long time for me!) and didn't get kicked off. It may depend how busy it is. And hello Javier-Salazar, George, Vicki, Noemi, et at...
15:02:05 dr-bob Hola, Javier!
15:02:08 JohnSuler Hello stephen
15:02:11 Noemi-Balinth Hello all!
15:02:23 Sheryl-Garner Hello, it's great to be here but I'm having some trouble with my program.
15:02:28 Stephen-Biggs hello all
15:02:29 dr-bob (tick tick tick tick)
15:02:38 storm Dr-Mike - if you use auto refresh it will not kick you off
15:02:42 JohnSuler what's wrong sheryl?
15:03:06 JohnSuler hello OFF.... (interesting username!)
15:03:12 JohnSuler Hello Gil!!
15:03:16 storm : OFF has joined.?????
15:03:18 JohnSuler Hello Janet
15:03:26 dr-bob Hey, Gil, nice setup! :-)
15:03:29 storm hi gil!
15:03:45 JohnSuler Hello Billie
15:03:46 Gil-Levin Hi all!
15:03:48 Janet greetings to all (Hi John!)
15:04:06 JohnSuler be right back!
15:04:11 dr-bob Maybe I ticked him...
15:04:31 Billie Hi John... just setting up the screen sorry
15:04:58 Gil-Levin I will be back in a flash
15:05:07 dr-bob While John's away, may I ask how many of you are ISMHO members?
15:05:08 psyc-stu is anybody recording this thread
15:05:20 JohnSuler I'm back
15:05:25 Vicky-L I didn't say hello yet, but hi everyone... Storm, Craig, John, etc - read your stuff... feel like I'm talking to celebrities
15:05:31 Javier-Salazar Does someone on this chatroom knows about some kind of ciberpsichology or cyberculture investigation done on Latin-america?
15:05:37 Judy-K I'm a member
15:05:39 Dr-Mike Hi Gil... and last time, psyc-stu, a transcript was made and posted, I'd expect it again...
15:05:48 Billie if Mark attends..... John you might ask him about the application he uses on his page much smoother than this 'refresh' method
15:05:53 storm Vicky-L - thank you (blushes)
15:05:58 Dori I just joined a few weeks ago... so "HI" to y'all!
15:06:03 Stephen-Biggs I'm a member
15:06:25 Sheryl-Garner I'm not able to refresh... I get a too much traffic error. I will keep trying tho!
15:06:27 Billie Hi Mike
15:06:34 dr-bob BTW, this isn't *my* chat room, it's Gil's (and John G.'s), and JohnSuler is our host this afternoon.
15:06:40 storm be right back
15:06:43 Allan-Schwartz Hi everyone
15:06:49 Javier-Salazar I m asking, cause i ve found a lot of info on that matter but with north-american or european population, never on latin-americans
15:07:07 Dora--micki Hi folks.
15:07:08 JohnSuler Hello Allan
15:07:14 JohnSuler Hello Francisco
15:07:16 dr-bob I just got listed first somehow.
15:07:20 Gil-Levin I left to add my email address. (Failed). Any I am back now
15:07:38 Billie <---will sit and watch
15:07:46 Mary Yes
15:07:49 Francisco-Lopez Hello to all you from Malaga (Spain). I am ready for enjoy this chat.
15:07:52 Gil-Levin Pretty good.
15:07:53 dr-bob Javier, what kind of difference do you think there is?
15:07:54 Javier-Salazar Im ok...
15:08:01 Craig-Childress I just had a technical glitch - needed to reboot.
15:08:18 Francisco-Lopez I am very well, technically. Thanks.
15:08:20 Dr-Mike Humming along... (I think the busy-ness has an impact)
15:08:36 Billie Greetings Craig... enjoyed your recent posts
15:08:40 Javier-Salazar Maybe none. But i think is worth investigating...
15:08:46 dr-bob Francisco, how about emotionally? :-)
15:08:49 Kimberly-Young my server seems a little slow today, otherwise, technically okay!
15:08:51 JohnSuler Hello Azy
15:09:10 Dori I'm fine with the tech but hard keeping track of thread of the talk... and we haven't even started yet!
15:09:11 Dr-Mike Hi Billie, missed you sign in...
15:09:32 Billie technically...... I dislike this application...
15:09:37 JohnSuler hello Paul
15:09:53 Vicky-L ditto, Dori... but it's exciting :)
15:10:01 Billie it's OK Mike it prolly happened during a 'refresh'
15:10:12 JohnSuler there are some disadvantages to this program, FreeChat... but it's easy to use and works across many platforms
15:10:14 Dr--mancini Hello everyone. Thanks for the reception.
15:10:35 Francisco-Lopez I see there is many people who speak Spanish, like me (hola a todos)
15:10:35 dr-bob Azy from Israel? Another international participant!
15:11:23 Javier-Salazar Hola francisco, i'm also Spanish-speaking..
15:11:35 Billie I understand JohnS.... there are however others with more features and less 'distractions' that are equally easy to use
15:11:54 Winona Dr. Mancini as in Melrose Place?
15:11:55 OFF Hi Azy. Why at last?
15:11:55 storm azy - glad you could make it!
15:11:58 Francisco-Lopez yes, I supposed it for your name, Javier.
15:11:58 JohnSuler OK EVERYONE.... LET'S BEGIN
15:12:15 Dr--mancini Philadelphia
15:12:15 Nancy-Board I am having some technical difficulty.
15:12:20 dr-bob It would be interesting if you could have the chat automatically translated. AltaVista does translation of web pages...
15:12:47 Billie sits and watches the beginning
15:12:47 Gil-Levin All is well for me technically at least....
15:12:54 Stephen-Biggs For me it's no the application, but online chat itself that I find hard to get used to
15:13:10 JohnSuler Our distinguished panelists include Craig Childress, Michael Fenichel, Robert Hsiung, Storm King, and Kimberly Young..... with me as the moderator.
15:13:23 Tom Hello
15:13:32 JohnSuler You can read about their work and backgrounds in the program for this meeting
15:13:48 JohnSuler During the panel discussion, please refrain from sending public messages. You are welcome to "whisper" (send private messages) to other attenders, but keep in mind that if you whisper to someone, the chat program places a series of dots next to your name.
15:14:09 JohnSuler After the panel discussion, when the meeting is opened up to questions and comments from the audience, indicate that you want to speak by typing the message "hand."
15:14:39 Francisco-Lopez I have read some things from you and I have been surprised of the difference between USA and Spain.
15:14:44 JohnSuler How have you used email in your clinical work and training?
15:15:18 dr-bob I sometimes receive and send emails to patients...
15:16:04 dr-bob I can't say I've done much with it in the "training" realm...
15:16:07 storm I referred a client with a rare disorder to an online self help group and he was able to get peer support for the first time
15:16:40 Kimberly-Young primarily as a consultation service for individuals
15:16:44 Craig-Childress I've used e-mail as an adjunctive intervention with some in-person clients.
15:16:48 Dr-Mike I use e-mail as an additional communication tool with colleagues, and occasionally for appointments, educational postings, etc...
15:17:06 dr-bob Oh, I should have specified, that's email with "real life" patients, I don't do (haven't done yet) completely-online therapy.
15:17:35 JohnSuler Besides email, are there other ways you use the internet for clinical work and training?
15:17:54 Dr-Mike My "training" didn't include e-mail... or pen & paper, either! And I do believe that it's a good way to make referrals/introductions.
15:18:14 dr-bob To go back a second...
15:18:35 dr-bob I suppose you could consider participation in mailing lists to be a form of training.
15:18:39 Craig-Childress Generally, I have been using a journal writing model in which the benefit from the intervention is derived from the client's experience of writing, not necessarily from my response.
15:19:21 dr-bob A lot of my work on the web I consider educational.
15:19:57 Dr-Mike Absolutely educational, both a learning and teaching tool!
15:20:06 Kimberly-Young i can't say I have utilized the net for training purposes, however, in addition to email, I utilize chat for consults
15:20:28 JohnSuler and Bob, you also are involved in audio-visual conferencing, correct?
15:20:32 storm I have learned )training) about some rare psychopathology by observing self help groups online and noting the coping strategies members report to each other
15:20:56 Craig-Childress Hmm
15:21:58 JohnSuler What are the various ways email COULD be used in clinical work? For a moment, let's just brainstorm on ideas, without evaluating them as good or bad. Sometimes silly ideas lead to useful ones.
15:22:04 dr-bob John, Judy and I are working on a therapy by videoconferencing project, yes.
15:22:49 dr-bob And of course there's Grand Rounds on the Internet
15:23:12 storm To help people with Social Phobia to start to interact socially with others in a safer environment
15:23:34 dr-bob The next presentation of which happens to be tomorrow at 11 am Chicago time. End of promotional spiel.
15:23:48 Dr-Mike As many of us have heard or presented, there *are* situations of geographic or psychological isolation, where either "treatment", or at least "consultation" may be a lifesaver, or at least a support... (Access to self-help online, too)
15:23:48 Kimberly-Young email services could provide help for people located in remote areas or those who have trouble finding professionals that specialize in a specific treatment area
15:24:06 Craig-Childress A bit off topic, but my refresh button only allows me to see other people's comments after I send one, so I may from time to time just say "hmm" to see what others are saying between my last comment and the more recent one
15:24:45 storm for anyone who *can not* or *will not* present for f2f treatment - it can help open the door to f2f help
15:25:04 JohnSuler might people with borderline disorder benefit from email contact between sessions, or during the therapist's vacations?
15:25:08 dr-bob Or it could potentially be an intervention in and of itself.
15:25:09 Dr-Mike It can be complex... IO
15:25:11 Dr-Mike It can be complex... I
15:25:41 dr-bob Yes, it can help with "object constancy".
15:27:25 Dr-Mike Object constancy is very complex too... Does the opportunity to read one's "session" transcript promote this?
15:27:39 JohnSuler interesting, Craig
15:27:43 dr-bob Homework is a good point, it's more delimited that "therapy" in general.
15:27:52 storm For family therapy with a distant member
15:28:08 storm in addition to f2f family therapy
15:28:14 dr-bob Mike, yes, and it also protects against distortion of what was said.
15:28:25 Craig-Childress Symptom management reporting for schizophrenic patients
15:28:44 Dr-Mike Then therapy too can be "education" -- or "homework".
15:28:51 dr-bob Mild-moderate medication side-effects...
15:28:57 JohnSuler for "recaps" of an f2f session?
15:29:14 Craig-Childress Social skills building for low-functioning or socially anxious clients
15:29:24 Vicky-L hand
15:29:35 Kimberly-Young It seems that email would have several applications for cognitive-behavioral approaches, supportive counseling, and education
15:29:39 JohnSuler as a "bridge" between f2f sessions
15:29:46 dr-bob Symptom reporting and "recaps" I think are potential uses, but you have to be careful not to slip into something that would be better dealt with in person.
15:30:04 Craig-Childress Improving the quality of life for low-functioning patients by increasing social networks
15:30:40 storm to consult with an expert on a case
15:31:08 dr-bob But even if it's not something you follow up with online, it at least alerts you to something to address in person.
15:31:47 dr-bob Mike, do you see any correlation between email social skills and real life social skills? :-)
15:31:49 JohnSuler What would be some clinical uses of email that you all would agree are beneficial?
15:32:53 dr-bob Craig, right, it can alert you to a change in status. That you would actually deal with in person.
15:33:04 Dr-Mike Craig- a bit off, but... how do these patients respond to the opportunity for between-appointment contact? And yes, Bob, I do see a correlation, but some people are equally "cathected" to on-phone lives which impede their family lives, too.
15:33:40 storm Like using email as narrative therapy as a supplement to f2f treatment
15:33:46 Craig-Childress I believe those types of intervention that rely on the clients writing as the therapeutic intervention are better than those that rely on the therapist's sage advice and counsel
15:33:49 dr-bob Mike, it's a double-edged sword. Or modality. Or whatever.
15:34:19 Dr-Mike This is trite, but I thing "shaping" communicative behavior is generally positive, no matter what the modality.
15:34:22 Kimberly-Young it seems the major themes are social skills training, cognitive-behavioral assignments, education both in terms of the client and seeking out guidance from experts in the field, and symptom management.
15:34:28 JohnSuler f2f = "face to face"
15:34:30 storm pardon my spelling - I have dis-lex-e-a :-)
15:35:32 dr-bob Everything is potentially harmful...
15:35:37 Craig-Childress I think solution focused interventions also hold promise since they encourage the client to develop his or her own strengths.
15:36:10 JohnSuler can you explain, Bob?
15:37:27 Craig-Childress I'd be concerned about cognitive interventions in which the therapist confronts the client's irrational beliefs
15:37:30 dr-bob But there are also special concerns related to online interventions.
15:37:36 storm potentially harmful? counter-transference (the therapist falls in love, by email, with the client :-)
15:37:45 Dr-Mike Harmful email? Well, if "text-based therapy" becomes in itself a substitute for relation-based therapy, it might imho be a positive for some (e.g., with communication or social deficits) and for others become an "addictive" displacement of *real-life* relationships.
15:37:46 JohnSuler how so, Craig?
15:37:48 dr-bob For example, that it might lead to Internet Addiction.
15:37:58 JohnSuler LOL, Storm!
15:38:01 storm many of the same things that would be harmful in f2f therapy
15:38:21 Kimberly-Young I suppose without the verbal context and non-verbal cues, it may be easy to misinterpret statements made within an email message.
15:38:45 Craig-Childress Confrontation in a text-based medium seems an unwise therapeutic intervention
15:38:50 dr-bob Kimberly, good point.
15:38:52 JohnSuler on a related issue about potential harm.... What, for you, are the most pressing ethical issues about using e-mail for clinical work?
15:39:06 Kimberly-Young Interesting point, Dr. Bob
15:39:08 Dr-Mike (Funny how we all sing the chorus on "addictiveness") Good points too on the ethical dilemmas which can develop, countertransference, insistent letter-writing, etc...
15:40:01 dr-bob I wonder, is counter-transference love always counter-therapeutic?
15:40:08 storm text-based relationships have a huge potential for transference (good and bad)
15:40:25 dr-bob Never mind that, I was just musing.
15:40:41 Craig-Childress For the same reason which Kimberly just cited, misinterpretation, plus confrontation may sound too harsh without the holding environment of in-person relationships
15:40:42 storm there is a lot of projection involved - people literally read what they want to hear
15:40:56 dr-bob I think one of the most significant ethical concerns has to do with the competence of the therapist.
15:40:58 JohnSuler could email contacts pose problems for the therapist... i.e., boundary problems and intrusion on their personal life?
15:41:52 Dr-Mike Someone before mentioned "distortions", which the nature of text may lend itself toward, for clarification. However, the flip side may be gross misinterpretation, without a live counselor/therapist to clarify or "demystify". And yes, I could see a very anxious or angry or depressed patient having a difficult time if the therapist is offline for a while!
15:41:57 JohnSuler good points, Storm and Bob
15:42:15 storm competence of the therapist - good point. how to tell if one is competent in text based relationships?
15:42:34 JohnSuler ethical concerns..... confidentiality?
15:42:35 Craig-Childress Regarding ethical issues, I think Developing ethical standards appropriate to cyberspace is vital
15:42:47 Kimberly-Young yes, John, I could see the complications to boundary problems, however, that is also true with ftf therapy dependent upon a practitioner's ability to set his or her own limits.
15:43:40 Dr-Mike Right, confidentiality and identity always come up as big factors. There's a lot of debate, however, on just whose *code of ethics* should apply, certainly to licensed mental health professionals!
15:43:49 storm text is interpreted as representing the well thought out firmly held views of the writer - when a lot of email is typing off the top of ones head
15:43:51 dr-bob I think confidentiality is a risk, but can be dealt with with informed consent.
15:44:12 Craig-Childress And I agree with Bob, developing standards of competence for delivering text-based interventions, or even discussing the issue.
15:44:49 dr-bob Storm has a good point. But if one is doing online therapy, one shouldn't just type off the top of one's head. Like you shouldn't just say whatever's on your mind if you're treating someone in your office.
15:45:15 Kimberly-Young good point, Dr. Mike, it is such a diverse field, I am sure virtual regulation would be quite difficult in terms of looking at whose ethics codes
15:45:50 Craig-Childress I believe that for cybertherapy, my expertise is less important than the client's therapeutic use of writing.
15:46:16 storm isolated area of the country emails you. get a real life address, phone number, and emergency contact
15:46:18 storm isolated area of the country emails you. get a real life address, phone number, and emergency contact
15:46:27 Dr-Mike So, Dr.Bob, your own counter-transference gets filtered by the text and delay between the dialogue? :-)
15:46:32 dr-bob Each discipline would develop it's own regulations. Because they would want to retain their autonomy.
15:46:42 JohnSuler good storm
15:47:16 JohnSuler would any of you be willing to conduct ongoing email therapy with a person living in an isolated area?
15:47:21 dr-bob Mike, good point. It provides an opportunity to self-reflect.
15:47:25 storm agree on how much email to expect each week (day)
15:47:38 dr-bob Licensing is an issue...
15:47:54 storm yes - it that was the only or best way for them to get help
15:48:42 Craig-Childress I would need to have legal jurisdictional issues resolved.
15:48:50 Kimberly-Young yes - within the scope of my area of expertise
15:48:54 JohnSuler HOW ABOUT THIS SCENARIO: A client you have seen in-person on a steady basis for two months wants to switch to email contact rather than in-person sessions. He says that he would feel "more comfortable with email for a while."
15:49:19 Craig-Childress Also, I'm not convinced that e-mail therapy is as powerful as in-person therapy. Therefore I'd have trouble charging the same rate as for in-person therapy.
15:49:44 storm Craig said "my expertise is less important than the client's therapeutic use of writing." good point.
15:49:47 dr-bob Craig, but your time's your time...
15:49:52 Dr-Mike Storm raises another issue--what to do if there's a risk of suicide, homicide, etc. I already *do* provide some "support" for people in remote areas going online for help. On one level, my web resources provide self-help, while on another I often give free (educational-not "therapeutic") consultation, making sure to define the relationship as such.
15:49:57 Craig-Childress But then it may not be worth my time to do e-mail work if I charge less for my online time than for my in-person time
15:50:20 storm more comfortable with email for a while. ask why first, he may be trying to hide
15:50:39 dr-bob Yes, explore.
15:51:40 JohnSuler HOW ABOUT THIS SCENARIO: A person from another country emails you to express some concerns about whether her current therapy is really helping or not. She wants to consult with you about this via email. You are very knowledgeable about the type of problem
15:51:59 Craig-Childress Regarding the second scenario, an in-person client wanting to switch to email, Nope, wouldn't do it
15:52:30 storm Craig - text-based therapy is NOT as powerful as f2f - but it can be a lot more effective than no help at all
15:52:34 Craig-Childress I can do a lot in f2f. I like anxiety. Anxiety and discomfort are my therapeutic friends
15:52:43 Kimberly-Young I suppose I would evaluate the situation based upon the client's presenting problem and the client's progress over the course of the two month therapy provided.
15:52:48 dr-bob I think these things are tricky. This could establish a therapist-client relationship.
15:52:57 JohnSuler note to audience: hit refresh to avoid being idle and becoming disconnected )
15:53:22 storm to consult with you about this via email. I would want to have others consulted as well
15:53:25 dr-bob You have to worry about splitting. Plus cultural differences. And even language issues.
15:53:45 Dr-Mike As one of the early check-ins mentioned, things may be different, say in Spain, than in New York or Chicago! And notwithstanding the cultural issues (and licensing, as Bob highlighted), second-guessing a primary therapist is messy enough as is!
15:54:19 storm i would not offer much in such a consultation - to many unknowns about the client
15:54:19 Craig-Childress Regarding consultation with a person from another country, it's a difficult issue.... but no. I would offer information and online resources but not advice specific to her situation
15:54:24 JohnSuler NEXT SCENARIO: A colleague you know fairly well wants supervision with you via email on a difficult case. Some of the colleague's exchanges with the client are via email, which your colleague wants to share with you. The colleague lives and works far away
15:54:43 dr-bob Now if the therapist were interested in a second opinion, too, that would be very different.
15:55:07 dr-bob Confidentiality is of course a concern here.
15:55:27 storm colleague wants to share with you i have no problem with that - especially if i knew i could call him if necessary
15:55:47 dr-bob (1) getting the client's permission to share the emails, and (2) protecting them in transit.
15:55:51 Dr-Mike And I'd imagine they'd expunge identifying information, so it could be like a "virtual grand rounds", as sometimes happens, or simply "supervision" or "a consult"
15:56:00 Kimberly-Young Yes, my first concern was the informed consent of the client and confidentiality related to sharing the email
15:56:38 dr-bob May I interrupt? I'm curious how many of us are set up to encrypt and decrypt email...
15:57:02 Craig-Childress I wouldn't accept e-mail from another's client without client permission and, because e-mail is being used for supervision, I might also want client permission for the e-mail consultation
15:57:07 Dr-Mike hand (but rarely use)
15:57:55 dr-bob I still don't think it's super easy unless you happen, as I do, to use a compatible program like Eudora.
15:58:01 JohnSuler ONE MORE SCENARIO: A face-to-face client successfully finishes psychotherapy with you. He wants to stay in touch with you through email.
15:58:12 Billie <hrumph> you obviously just aren't allowed to observe
15:58:45 storm stay in touch did we agree on a rate to charge him for this ;-)
15:59:02 dr-bob OK, if they're aware of the confidentiality issues, but I'd want to watch out for the re-emergence of "issues".
15:59:03 Javier-Salazar ....
15:59:33 JohnSuler OK, I've moved through these questions quickly in order to get as many ideas as possible out for discussion. Let's open up the discussion to questions and comments from the audience.
15:59:46 dr-bob Since, after all, we don't prohibit former clients from sending us notes in the regular mail.
16:00:13 Javier-Salazar hand
16:00:14 Craig-Childress Probably. I'd consider dependency issues, but, on the other hand, e-mail might usefully facilitate termination transition and e-mail follow-ups might provide a cost effective continuing intervention
16:00:14 keni hand
16:00:14 dr-bob (bracing self)
16:00:38 JohnSuler YES, KENI
16:01:50 dr-bob We're planning on using CU-SeeMe.
16:02:13 Azy A question I struggle with has to do with *personal attributes* that might interact with the impact of email-based help
16:02:14 gail Hand
16:02:15 JohnSuler GO AHEAD, JUDY K
16:02:18 dr-bob As the software. Quickcams as the hardware.
16:02:19 Craig-Childress The nature of the continuing relationship would need to be defined more clearly. I might define the relationship as "I'll read em but won't respond unless we re-establish a therapeutic relationship."
16:02:29 Judy-K Might the issue of harmfulness be addressed by establishing a contract with the client that if anything written "lands" in a distressing or harmful was the client will contact you by phone? With boundary management, also
16:02:33 storm David-Yonkin - why would special software be needed?
16:03:06 Francisco-Lopez Well, I want to ask you something: I have "heard" many things in this chat, but I am still in doubt about the tradition of on-line psychology out of Spain. My question is: Does this tradition exist in USA, for example, or it is begining just now?
16:03:18 JohnSuler Good question, Judy
16:03:28 storm I see 3 hands up :-)
16:03:37 dr-bob Judy, a fantastic idea. A lot of issues can be dealt with satisfactorily, I think, just by anticipating them.
16:03:44 Javier-Salazar The online self ( a login, a nicknmae, an avatar ) CAN be potentially different form the offline self. ( See Turkle, Identity in the age of the Internet ) Wouldn't it be therapeutic if the therapist established online therapy AS WELL AS f2f therapy? That way he can get in touch with the patients online persona, see differences, see who is the person online, in a case of Internet Addiction. Who is the paatient online? Why is he hooked with his online self instead of his offline self......?
16:03:48 Francisco-Lopez Sorry; I haven't said "hand". I say it now.
16:04:44 Mary hand
16:04:50 Craig-Childress Regarding Judy's question, yes. I think it is very important to establish such a therapeutic contract with e-mail clients.
16:05:17 David-Yonkin HAND
16:05:17 dr-bob Although, of course, you can't guarantee that that's what the client would actually do in that situation...
16:05:28 JohnSuler I think the boundary management issue is important.. it's easy for the clinician to get drawn into excessive email contact with clients
16:05:30 storm Judy-K - yes. in general, if text therapy is to occur, a lot must be agreed on by both parties first.
16:06:01 Kimberly-Young regarding judy's question, yes, i think such issues should be discussed
16:06:05 Dr-Mike I have a former (inpatient) schizophrenic client who somehow got my unlisted home phone. He calls me once a year, to ascertain that I'm still alive, basically. I used to be annoyed. Now I see the importance of even this brief "touching base". But I agree w/ "Boundary management" where possible. (If not: "Analyze this!")
16:06:26 storm John - sounds like personal experience :-)
16:06:34 Azy In what terms would you define boundaries?
16:06:45 Craig-Childress The excessive e-mail issue is extremely important and is not often discussed
16:06:54 Mary HAND
16:07:20 Francisco-Lopez HAND
16:07:38 dr-bob (tangent: an advantage of online therapy that I've never seen mentioned is that you can get up and go to the bathroom in the middle of a session if you've had too much java beforehand) :-)
16:07:49 Azy Craig - in terms of frequency? Length?
16:07:59 Javier-Salazar HAND.... second time......
16:08:18 Gil-Levin hand: What about Mary and Francisco?
16:08:38 gail some of you referred to the issues of object relations. Do you think that online therapy can be used to modify ego structure?
16:09:26 Francisco-Lopez Me?
16:09:38 storm dr-bob - yes, the wonderful nature of asynchronous, anonymous interpersonal interactions - i did not have to shave for this social gathering :-)
16:09:40 JohnSuler .... interesting question, Gail....
16:09:57 Craig-Childress Both frequency and length (but frequency is more annoying)
16:10:14 dr-bob John, which question are we on, sorry?
16:10:58 JohnSuler the structure is breaking down a bit.... let's try opening it up to whoever wants to talk.. and see what happens (hold onto your hat!)
16:11:16 Javier-Salazar The online self can be different from the offline self. Wouldn't it be therapeutic if the therapist is involved in online therapy as well a f2f therapy? In a case of Intenet addiction, he can see who is the patient's online persona, see why he is hooked with his online self instead of his offline self..
16:11:24 Craig-Childress Regarding Gail's question, Yes, I do think e-mail can modify ego structure, but probably not in the same way as it's done in f2f
16:11:26 dr-bob (bracing self)
16:11:31 Kimberly-Young yes, it is a little difficult to follow the flow
16:11:33 storm career interest testing been there - done that. see Steve Herman's work
16:11:41 Dr--mancini I think E Mail Assessment comes before Therapy?
16:12:01 dr-bob David, I think it's interesting that the usual assumption is that *maximized* contact is better. That may not be the case.
16:12:26 dr-bob Javier, I'm not so sure it's possible to have an online self that's so different than one's offline self.
16:12:33 David-Yonkin If it might not be the case, how can we tell?
16:13:08 Allan-Schwartz please pardon my ignorance, but, what is f2f?
16:13:13 storm David-Yonkin - online video connections that are worth watching will occur soon enough - but that is a real time connection and the asynchronous nature of email will still assure it's place in all this
16:13:17 Judy-K This has been a discussion with many great ideas, experiences, and points. Do you plan to make a transcript available?
16:13:21 storm f2f + face to face
16:13:29 dr-bob David, I guess we could tell by the client's reaction?
16:13:31 Kimberly-Young I would imagine that career interest testing is similar to certain computerized personality or neuropsychological testing procedures
16:13:35 JohnSuler perhaps "self" expressed itself a bit differently through text than through verbal expression
16:13:41 Robin-Sircus I find mixing email with chat therapy very effective
16:13:45 Vicky-L Craig, can you elaborate on your answer to Gail on how you think ego restructuring would be different???
16:13:48 JohnSuler Yes, we plan to make a transcript available
16:14:01 Craig-Childress Regarding using e-mail AND f2f to gain the benefits of each. Yes. Absolutely. I believe the conjoint use of these different approaches offers the most effective type of online intervention.
16:14:30 Kimberly-Young Javier, the issue assumes that the person is "addicted" to the Internet because they have developed an online persona.
16:14:49 Javier-Salazar The online self could be different fron his offline self. It's a matter of virtual identity: he can be a 40 year old woman online while being a male teenager offline, he can be a Knight on a Medieval MUD instead of being a mechanic..
16:14:50 Dr-Mike Javier-Salazar raises an interesting point. I work (f2f) with a teenager who has a
16:15:15 Dr-Mike (Sorry Bob, got stuck in the whisper window. That was meant to be public.)
16:15:54 storm what about addiction to online gambling or pornography? that does not involve a "online persona."
16:16:06 Kimberly-Young In some cases, that is part of the reason for their obsessive usage, and online observations of the persona would be beneficial in such as instance.
16:16:34 gail It seems like there's a big difference between using online technology as an adjunct to f2f face clients versus someone who you've never met. I think we need more discussion about how assessment via text.
16:16:47 dr-bob Dr. Mancini, and how would you distinguish them? :-)
16:16:57 Francisco-Lopez HAND
16:17:41 Craig-Childress Vicky, not in chat :-) I think that the issue involves the greater tendency to project in cyberspace than in the real world.
16:18:14 Dr--mancini Clinical E Mail, Chat (Voice or Text combined) Video Phone or Conference is certainly viable for assessment and therapy.
16:18:31 Francisco-Lopez I repeat my message: Well, I want to ask you something: I have "heard" many things in this chat, but I am still in doubt about the tradition of on-line psychology out of Spain. My question is: Does this tradition exist in USA, for example, or it is begining just now?
16:18:33 storm assessment via text. hypothetical approach - "here a password to my assessment web site - go answer these questions then we will type to each other about if text therapy is appropriate
16:18:36 Dr-Mike Javier-Salazar raises an interesting point. I work (f2f) with a teenager who has a web page with a great deal of autobiographical "narrative text". Both the material, and our discussion of it (basically accurate self-percepts) have been fruitful, as well as his positive reaction to my having seen his web page.
16:18:37 Craig-Childress I also think that the mutable quality of identity in cyberspace may play a role in ego restructuring type work
16:18:45 Billie hands on hips looking at the 'idle' and saying... tsk tsk I am not idle.. I am observing
16:19:07 dr-bob Francisco, it is beginning just now.
16:19:11 Azy Well, what do you think about my question concerning the interaction of the impact of email-based help and patient's personal attributes?
16:19:13 Radiance Kimberly? are you assuming anyone with an online persona is obsessive? Isn't that rather broad considering the vastness of the medium?
16:19:20 Dr--mancini Assessment leads to diagnosis leads to therapy treatment if appropriate.
16:19:51 Kimberly-Young No, I was replying to Javier's question related to online personas
16:20:07 Radiance oh.. thank you
16:20:26 Craig-Childress Regarding the question of Francisco-Lopez, No, a tradition of online therapeutic intervention is only beginning and there are a number of important clinical, legal, and ethical hurdles ahead of us.
16:20:35 storm Radiance - your question is a good example of the miss-understandings inherent in text communications
16:20:39 Billie nods to dr-bob and *winks* I know
16:20:43 Francisco-Lopez In Spain I have had to retire my site because the Psychologist College don't consider incredible the idea of making on-line therapy through programs like ICQ.
16:20:51 storm espically confusing chat rooms
16:21:06 dr-bob Dr. Mancini, yes, in theory, I completely agree. But it's not always so sequential in reality.
16:21:10 Dr--mancini Spelling is important in text therapy Storm.
16:21:18 dr-bob Azy, could you elaborate on your question?
16:21:52 Radiance yes.. but this is text of many people Storm.. if you were 'in session' with someone.. I would assume it would be 1 on 1 and less confusing?
16:21:53 Kimberly-Young ah, a good point storm
16:22:00 dr-bob Francisco, they *forced* you to retire it? Tell us more!
16:22:02 Robin-Sircus Francisco I am in Brazil and the tradition is so young I do not think you can call it a tradition
16:22:14 dr-bob Storm, espically! :-)
16:22:14 Dr--mancini Well it is certainly the appropriate E Mail clinical application before deciding on object constancy and other transference issues.
16:22:23 Craig-Childress Azy... big issue. I'm sure it's full of fruitful exploration, however, I'm not yet experienced enough with this medium to make a valuable contribution about this. Do you have any ideas?
16:22:29 Stephen-Biggs Does anyone wish to comment more on the use of journalling through e-mail?
16:22:29 storm Spelling is important in text therapy the tradition I am aware of for chat rooms is that it is more important to keep up the flow of ideas
16:23:03 Robin-Sircus I am sorry to hear the Francisco they are ignorant
16:23:04 Dr-Mike Amen to Craig's comment on emerging legal/ethical precedents. BTW, with John G in attendance, I'd repeat the question asked a few times: Will this be saved in transcript form? (Btw, text can have spell-check applied; can "online therapy" have email-relation-check applied?)
16:23:10 storm Radiance: yes asynchronous is much less confusing
16:23:25 dr-bob Why not have a chat room that automatically does spell checks???
16:23:51 Azy there may be clues coming from bibliotherapy...
16:24:07 Dr-Mike Dr. Bob, and text-based therapy whose software has "interpretation-check"? :-)
16:24:25 dr-bob Azy, I'm still not sure what kind of interaction you're thinking of.
16:24:28 Francisco-Lopez Do you refer to my Spanish colleagues, Robin?
16:24:42 JohnSuler I'D LIKE YOUR FEEDBACK ON THIS CHAT MEETING..... What you liked... what could be improved.... ideas for future meetings..... please email me your feedback (
16:25:00 dr-bob I'm serious, these are potential technological improvements.
16:25:33 Azy personal attributes x derived personal impact! 4 instance, people who more verbal may benefit more...
16:25:41 Robin-Sircus Yes Francisco
16:25:49 Billie nods to dr-bob... but the 'spelling' does say something in and of itself
16:26:13 gail Francisco-Lopez: how does the Psychologist College have control over how you use your site? I don't think we have that type of oversight in the USA although some people think we should. Are you a psychologist?
16:26:19 Stephen-Biggs Robin: Have you used it with clients, if so in what way(s)?
16:26:23 Vicky-L so what's the answer: WILL THIS MEETING BE SAVED IN TRANSCRIPT FORM?
16:26:23 Dr--mancini l allows spellcheck and interpretation can be the clinical assessment report or a computerized E mail version.
16:26:31 Dori I find this exciting but difficult to keep track of the different lines of conversation... though I suspect I'd get better at it if I used chat rooms more... let's do this again!
16:26:31 Javier-Salazar I think legal/ethical issues of online therapy have to be solved before permitting online therapy. It has to be regulated first
16:26:33 Dr-Mike I know you're serious... and right, Dr.Bob. But I was thinking like Billie... what would we do without "Freudian slips" to interpret?? :-)
16:26:50 David-Yonkin although in f2f one doesn't have to spell, just speak! :)
16:26:50 dr-bob I don't think it's realistic to insist that legal, ethical, etc., issues get completely worked out first, and only then to proceed with the activity.
16:26:55 Judy-K Re: feedback--a lot clearer that the prior discussion. With a focused discussion first and followed by questions. Helps, also, in the non-structured discussion when people make reference to the question they are responding to in their replies.
16:27:13 dr-bob Mike, *excellent* point. I withdraw the suggestion.
16:27:17 Francisco-Lopez Dora: in Spain online therapy doesn't exist. At least, it has not to exiist, because in the Deontologic Code it is supossed that all the therapeutic methods have to be scientifically proved and, also supossed, that online therapy isn't proved yet.
16:27:21 storm we often forget that we are talking about text net therapy only for that population that can afford a PC, can access the net, and can type (and spell :-)
16:27:29 Janet actually text therapy allows client opportunity to correct his "freudian slips"before they ever reach you...
16:27:56 Ken Are there spell checkers that check as you type?
16:27:58 Sheryl I have only "sort of" been able to follow the discussion due to my program, but would like to bring up a concern I have re on-line therapy... that psychotherapists who are unfamiliar with the dynamics of on-line therapy become involved with it without having enough knowledge about the medium. Could anyone comment?
16:27:59 Craig-Childress Azy, yes. but what these traits are and how they interact, I'm not yet sure
16:28:07 Javier-Salazar I think online therapy has an enormous potential, but i has to be regulated firs...
16:28:13 dr-bob Janet, hmm, so ones that make it through are even more significant!
16:28:30 Azy I think one of the main benefits of email-based help is empowerment, because of the special more egalitarian relationships
16:28:36 Robin-Sircus Stephen I have not formally used it as I have used it myself and as I have seen it used but I see the intuitive sense when going deep with a virtual client
16:28:49 dr-bob Sheryl, those are the ones that Craig was referring to, who might be competent in regular therapy, but might not be in online therapy.,
16:28:54 Dr--mancini After the E mail, we have the spellcheck. Hello. Most E Mail browsers offer spellcheck which isn't a major issue.
16:29:05 storm unfamiliar with the dynamics of on-line therapy become involved with it they can do more harm then good
16:29:15 Gil-Levin Excellent that: A TRANSCRIPT OF THIS MEETING WILL BE MADE AVAILABLE. There was a lot of interesting discussion.
16:29:27 Judy-K Thanks. Enjoyed it. What's planned for the next one?
16:29:30 Azy Craig - take verbal ability/fluency as an example! this deserves research!
16:29:33 Radiance I agree Sheryl.. and I believe 'online' communications vary greatly.. this form of communicating is very different then Email.. as is Virtual chat vs. this form
16:29:57 JohnSuler I think one of the most interesting features of email is how the message is constructed... spelling, paragraph breaks, use of special characters, etc
16:30:01 storm I have to leave now (my wife won tickets to tonight's rolling stones concert :-). this has been fun, educational, and I hope we can do it again.
16:30:28 Robin-Sircus Online therapy needs to be regulated by an all virtual board of virtual therapists who are totally dedicated to this medium
16:30:36 Mary A request for the person who recommended: WWW.CAREER.EP.USM.EDU/STEVE. Is this the correct website? My browser cannot find the address.
16:30:42 Kimberly-Young have fun storm!!
16:30:43 Francisco-Lopez I also defend online communication as an alternative (or complementary) way.
16:30:51 Billie say HI to Mick from me storm
16:31:02 dr-bob Storm, party hearty!
16:31:27 Dr-Mike Tnx John S, re: Transcript. Ken, Microsoft Word spellchecks *as you type* if you're willing/able to compose and delay sending off your email... but most email clients have spellcheck which can be run before you hit SEND.
16:31:51 Sheryl And also, how much knowledge/experience in CMC would qualify someone as *experienced in CMC psychodynamics*???
16:31:53 Robin-Sircus Francisco I am sorry to hear that Spain is so far behind in Brazil it is popular in the press
16:32:14 Judy-K Great! Will watch for future discussions. Bye for now.
16:32:17 dr-bob Francisco, what would they have done had you not retired your site?
16:32:22 Allan-Schwartz What concerns me about this as a medium for therapy is its relative anonymity, increased possibility for projection and distortion and for acting out. Please comment.
16:32:26 Javier-Salazar Rolling Stones Storm... ;-)
16:32:29 Azy it's:
16:33:06 Francisco-Lopez He, he. I laugh because I like very much to have met you all. I am glad that in Brazil it is extended.
16:33:14 Dr-Mike Wow, I got whisked off when everyone else left, and now my screen is refreshing once a second! Wow... Take care all, nice to "see you"... Thanks John S! Always a pleasure... Paz!
16:33:16 Dr--mancini A-S, which type of therapy?
16:33:22 Kimberly-Young John, I want to thank you very much for inviting me to be a part of this distinguished panel!
16:33:23 dr-bob Allan, more grist for the mill.
16:33:33 JohnSuler I'm glad you could make it, Francisco
16:33:39 Vicky-L Allan, I'm not so sure that all the things you mentioned are ALL bad
16:33:49 JohnSuler Thank you for coming, Kimberly!
16:33:56 Kimberly-Young I need to run myself, so I want to say good-bye to all and again, thank you for having me.
16:33:58 Billie set your refresh down to 5 Mike
16:34:01 Javier-Salazar Also i think that online therapy is going to bring in qualitative analysis of text written documents in vogue....
16:34:06 JohnSuler And my thanks to all of the panelists!
16:34:08 Mary Thank you Azy! I enjoyed watching the chat everyone. Bye!
16:34:10 dr-bob Dr. Mancini, those kinds of assessments are straightforward, yes, but don't give you the whole picture.
16:34:10 Robin-Sircus Alan I think it great this increased projection because it makes it easier to confront the ego structure
16:34:14 Craig-Childress Allan, that's what I love about this medium
16:34:21 Azy Thank you John for leading the discussion
16:34:45 Noemi-Balinth A clear benefit to this forum is our ability to interact with our international colleagues. Thanks all and bye for now!
16:34:49 Billie nods to John yes thanks a tough job done well
16:35:29 Javier-Salazar Bye to all... gotta go... Hasta la online vista Baby !!!!!
16:35:34 Dora-micki John I have proposed a course and if approved will use you hypertext book.
16:35:41 Allan-Schwartz This has been very interesting and I plan to learn more about using this medium for therapy. Signing off.
16:35:52 Dr--mancini Hasta Luego!
16:36:09 Vicky-L i have to leave, too. it's been really great. thank you all
16:36:09 Francisco-Lopez Adios, Javier.
16:36:12 dr-bob Francisco, so a lot of that had to do with how you presented your site. The fewer claims you make, the harder it is to accuse you of fraud.
16:36:13 Javier-Salazar nks to all especially to John.
16:36:15 JohnSuler thanks Billie
16:36:17 Robin-Sircus Yes Craig I imagine you would say that :-))
16:36:18 Dr-Mike My refresh is on 5, and it's refreshing now 2 times a second. Cool, but frantic. Ciao, Billy, Dr. Bob, Craig, Kimberly, other panelists, and audience. I think this was a good session and experiment! Holy moly is this a fast refresh now that the room is clearing! Ciao, all.
16:36:56 Dr--mancini Arriverderci Dr. Mike
16:37:00 Billie be safe Mike
16:37:58 Dr--mancini Can someone focus on which assessment and which therapy for which person at which time in E mail applications?
16:38:05 Billie dr-bob a fine meeting thanks
16:38:27 Francisco-Lopez Yes, Bob. I understand I'm not at the level of diviners (tarot, for instance).
16:38:44 Robin-Sircus What was that question Mancini???
16:38:47 Dr--mancini Bye Billie.
16:38:53 dr-bob Dr. Mancini, your web site could try to explain who you thought would be appropriate for your service...
16:39:09 Dr--mancini Bye Vick L.
16:39:10 Azy That's a GREAT question, Dr M., to which we have no
16:39:13 Dora-micki Thanks for inviting me the meeting.
16:39:15 Dora-micki Thanks for inviting me the meeting.
16:39:28 JohnSuler SO FOLKS.. those of you who are still around... any feedback about the meeting?
16:39:36 Billie am I leaving? or are you leaving Dr--mancini?
16:39:41 dr-bob Billie, thanks, but it was JohnSuler's meeting. I just came to exercise my fingers.
16:40:13 Azy John - thanks for organizing the meeting. I enjoyed it, despite the little mess...
16:40:35 Billie other than this application gives me a headache nope the participants and meeting are awesome
16:40:37 Francisco-Lopez I had the mistake of no identifying myself correctly, and I admit it, but I can't agree that online therapy is impossible, as my colleagues said.
16:40:42 Radiance I think these meetings are great John... tho perhaps just seeds of what may develop
16:40:56 Janet its great, but i don't recommend leaving during the middle; its hell trying to catch up
16:40:57 Dr--mancini No, I'm in.
16:41:27 Stephen-Biggs Thank you John and everyone else, I look forward to downloading the transcript
16:41:35 dr-bob I wonder if there would be any way to "thread" a live chat...
16:41:45 Billie me to Dr--mancini so I'll save the 'goodbye' for later than
16:41:57 Dr--mancini Dr. Bob, Tell me more of your impressions.
16:42:08 Robin-Sircus Hey John I have never seen email chat be really effective. This has been better than the last meeting but well group consciousness it still is not. I think that this could be great with a group of people who are really focused and really group conscious.
16:42:26 dr-bob Francisco, did they way it was impossible, or that it just hadn't been shown to be possible?
16:42:26 JohnSuler here's a question that is important... how does this kind of discussion in chat compare to doing it through an email list?
16:42:50 dr-bob More chaotic this way.
16:43:00 Billie immediate feedback is more stimulating
16:43:08 Dr--mancini Dr. Bob, right from my ICQ on the web page.
16:43:09 gail Thanks, John and everyone else. I look forward to more of this in the future. I thought the scenarios were most helpful since they move from the theoretical to the concrete, at least so far as possible w/o actual case study.
16:43:15 dr-bob No time to think. Not much, anyway.
16:43:18 Radiance I think this is more personal.. and I also believe Virtual chat is even more personal
16:43:21 Juan-Carlos-Vzla Bye and thanks for information (Ccs/Vzla)
16:43:29 Billie and yes bob you can thread chat....
16:43:32 Azy Yes, I agree. Immediacy has special impact
16:43:56 JohnSuler would people be willing to download and install software that would greatly improve the chat experience (for example VISUAL chat)?
16:44:00 psyc-stu Although it is a bit difficult to follow the discussion at times, I would be interested another time
16:44:00 dr-bob Billie, real time chat like this? Never seen it...
16:44:19 Janet visual chat?? what a concept!
16:44:24 dr-bob John, what do you mean "visual"?
16:44:33 Azy and yes, it's more personal, because of the imm reactions
16:44:36 Francisco-Lopez They said me: "That I consider incredible is you think that online therapy could be made with the actual resources of the Internet.
16:44:40 dr-bob You mean with avatars, like the Palace? :-)
16:44:51 Billie yes color code the individuals
16:44:56 JohnSuler like Palace, Bob... with avatars, visual rooms, etc.
16:45:12 Azy good idea, john!
16:45:14 Janet worth a try John. might get less turnout however...
16:45:34 JohnSuler It really does enhance the chat experience
16:45:41 dr-bob Francisco, they might think it's incredible, but people used to think airplanes were incredible, too.
16:45:52 Radiance I own 3 worlds in the AW program which has a 20 minute free D/L I would volunteer a place for experimenting with it
16:45:55 Billie JohnS there is simpler applications really java applets of a web page that are much smoother
16:45:56 JohnSuler but it does pose the problem of people having to download and install
16:46:22 JohnSuler Yes, Billie, we're looking into that
16:46:28 dr-bob I ended up at a Palace site that seemed to work through the web (ie, Netscape)...
16:46:48 Robin-Sircus Francisco I see an image of people starring at a wheel and saying hey it will not turn. :-)
16:46:52 Francisco-Lopez Of course, Dr. Bob.
16:46:54 Azy john, we can go both ways at different times
16:46:58 JohnSuler the problem with some of those programs is that they are not stable on all platforms (like mine... Mac :(
16:47:28 JohnSuler yeah, Bob, there is a browser version of Palace... not as good as the standalone client, though
16:47:30 Radiance ahhh true John : (
16:47:38 dr-bob John, I only used Macs, and it worked for me...
16:48:09 Dr--mancini Everything on the web is therapeutic.
16:48:23 JohnSuler which program do you mean, Bob?
16:48:36 Francisco-Lopez Have you had experiences with ICQ? It permits to see the letter step by step, one by one... I used it since my site begun.
16:48:36 Robin-Sircus I think for sure cyber citizens and cyber therapists need to just leave the f2f world behind for a while and take a real journey into space. You cannot go to mars with a half a leg on earth.
16:49:00 Sheryl I am concluding that my problems have to do with my system, so I will look forward to the transcript... but I want to say I appreciate this forum and look forward to the evolution of... whatever cybershrinking evolves to! Namaste' all :)
16:49:11 dr-bob John, there was some web-Palace interface or plug-in or something. Hmm, if it was a plug-in, then I did need to download something...
16:49:22 Robin-Sircus Yes Francisco I use ICQ all the time
16:49:29 Dr--mancini Nice meeting you Sheryl.
16:50:04 JohnSuler Oh, yeah Bob, Palace has been very good about programming for Macs (it was originally created on a Mac)
16:50:04 Radiance Namast Sheryl
16:50:12 Billie I believe the limit of ICQ for interactive real time is 6.. possible 7
16:50:13 Azy i use icq frequently. it works great.
16:50:16 micki John thanks for inviting me. I keeping getting disconnected.
16:50:27 JohnSuler thanks for coming, Micki
16:50:28 dr-bob Robin, you can't go to Mars without Earth to push off, either. :-)
16:50:35 Francisco-Lopez If you want, my ICQ number is 14004586. In your disposition I am.
16:50:38 Robin-Sircus Oh John do I ever miss my Macs
16:50:39 Dr--mancini U Talk coincides with ICQ for simultaneous phone contact.
16:50:51 Dr--mancini Bye micki.
16:51:14 JohnSuler ICQ is good.. but again the problem is that it is a bit more difficult technically for some people
16:51:18 dr-bob There's web-based ICQ now, too...
16:51:33 Azy it's almost midnight here. good night all.
16:51:41 Robin-Sircus Thanks will request now
16:51:43 Francisco-Lopez I think ICQ is better than mIRC because you haven't to wait for the other part to end a message: you see it live.
16:51:49 dr-bob John, I agree, I never got into ICQ myself.
16:51:59 Dr--mancini That is on my site as I said earlier Dr. Bob.
16:52:09 JohnSuler Nite, Azy
16:52:09 dr-bob But it's fast.
16:52:23 Francisco-Lopez More difficult, sure? I consider mIRC more difficult, and with difference.
16:52:57 JohnSuler well, I have to go now... but again, thank you all for coming!!
16:53:05 dr-bob I guess audio would be asking for trouble...
16:53:10 Dr--mancini Good luck where ever you are in your studies Azy.
16:53:22 Billie the format of IRC is presently running on many web sites as a simple java applet
16:53:32 Janet Bye John
16:53:33 dr-bob wb john g
16:53:57 JohnSuler (nice thing about Palace is that the program can SPEAK the text to you)
16:54:00 JohnGrohol ICQ as a Web-based chat is a Java plugin... So are most applications which use the Web as chat room.
16:54:02 Dr--mancini Helloooooo, Dr. John
16:54:26 dr-bob john s, can it translate?
16:54:32 JohnGrohol There is a downside to all technologies available. For instance, the Palace is an expensive server system... and hard to write long, long text lines in! :-)
16:54:33 JohnSuler bye all!
16:54:39 Billie wb john
16:54:58 dr-bob those automatic translators are really something
16:55:07 JohnGrohol IRC is nice, but the only web-based thing for it is a Java applet. Nothing against Java, just that a lot of people can't run it (WebTV for instance).
16:55:39 JohnGrohol But we're always looking into new suggestions... and appreciate them.
16:56:10 Billie grins... those of us in the 'south' don't have coasts
16:56:11 JohnSuler thanks, John, for your help in setting this up!
16:56:12 dr-bob have a nice rest-of-your-day, everyone
16:56:16 Janet so long and thanks for all the fish
16:56:26 Dr--mancini Back to E mail clinical applications, ICQ me anytime from my site Dr. Bob. It has been interesting to say the least.
16:56:32 Billie or coats even we do however have coasts
16:56:41 dr-bob to bake?
16:56:45 JohnSuler bye all! (didn't I say that already)... this time I really mean it... BYE!
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