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The_banana
  • USWest
  • 20. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/23/2009 10:51:08 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Still rather cheesy way of going about saying they arn't bringing back any old class imo. Claim the game as not theirs nothing to do with them, then hijack the class lolz...
That might be fine, if they had in fact "hijacked" the class. But of course, they didn't. The only real similarity is the name, and possibly the use of a staff (although I doubt D3's Monk is limited to using a staff).

What, did they hijack the Barbarian from Hellfire too?
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Ukaer
  • USWest
  • 21. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/24/2009 09:28:38 AM PDT

Q u o t e:
Uh, no. It's not a loophole. Hellfire was made by Sierra, and was not an official part of the Diablo franchise. Nothing from Hellfire is or ever was canon. It's not a "lie" or a "loophole." Also, D3's Monk has little to do with Hellfire's Monk asides from having the same name and apparently being proficient with a staff.


Yeah, it's not canon and it's not diablo but we're going to steal the monk anyways, thats' diablo. oh wait.
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Kathars1s
  • USWest
  • 22. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/24/2009 09:47:28 AM PDT
By that logic, the wizard, warrior, barbarian, rogue, amazon and pretty much every other class blizzard uses has been "Hijacked" from someone who made a class with that name first.
In fact that goes for almost any game that has similarly named characters, ever.
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Gronmoor
  • Europe
  • 23. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/24/2009 02:12:07 PM PDT
I'm fairly certain it said "Only official expansion" or something like it on the Hellfire box, but I'm not at home so I cant check it out. and google is too many clicks away. :P But whatever Blizzard do or do not see it as an official Diablo world thing. To be honest, this new and shiny Monk is not the only character to be found in Hellfire. If you typed in a cheatcode in an .txt file you got access to the Barbarian (!) A dude that used the warriors graphic art but could use a 2-handed axe or sword in one hand a shield in the other and had no magic skills what so ever. Now true, the barbarian in D2 (and D3) is a bit different, but so is this Monk. So... as someone else asked earlier... Where's the Bard! :P
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Ukaer
  • USWest
  • 24. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/24/2009 02:40:02 PM PDT
Apparently it says: "The only authorized diablo expansion pack"

http://www.listal.com/viewimage/225053
Blizzard Entertainment
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Bashiok
Blizzard Poster
  • 25. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/24/2009 03:06:43 PM PDT
It's not a recognized part of the Diablo franchise, and to be honest it is so much so not recognized, that when people asked about returning classes in the Q&A's and in some of the press interviews the Hellfire expansion just wasn't in anyone's minds.

Plus, it isn't the same class. We aren't taking an old class and updating it. The monk from Hellfire, and in fact the story and content of Hellfire, doesn't exist as far as game lore and story is concerned going into Diablo III.

They happen to share a name, the same as all of the other monk classes that have existed in all other RPG's since the beginning of time. It doesn't mean they're related kit/story/flavor wise.
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  • Level: 1
  • Gateway: Northrend
  • 26. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/24/2009 03:12:08 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
Apparently it says: "The only authorized diablo expansion pack"

http://www.listal.com/viewimage/225053


This ISN'T the problem!
Blizzard also agreed on two expansion packs for StarCraft apart from Brood War, and also some add-ons for WarCraft 2.
The lore from all of these ISN'T canon.
AUTHORIZED means what it means, it's authorized, nothing more. Blizzard agreed that an add-on to THEIR game could be released. Hellfire may be the only one and the biggest one, it remains something made up by another team.
Na-Krul, Lester, Celia, The Defiler and the insectoid aliens which have NO reason to be here simply DO NOT EXIST.
END.
There is no Monk like those from Hellfire in Sanctuary, only those from Diablo 3.
In Hellfire, the Monks come from the Brotherhood of the Bough, which doesn't exist in Sanctuary, come from a place which we never heard of and isn't present on the official map, are dark-skinned and have a blue pair of trousers, they look like somewhat real monks.
Those from Diablo 3 have fixed roots, hang from a fixed place and stuff. They have not any of the archtypes which I just said, they have dots on the forehead which the Monks from Hellfire do not have, they are bald whereas the others had a ponytail.

I could give other reasons.

----

Edit : Thanks Bashiok.

[ Post edited by Grathas ]

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Ukaer
  • USWest
  • 27. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/24/2009 04:30:40 PM PDT

Q u o t e:


This ISN'T the problem!
Blizzard also agreed on two expansion packs for StarCraft apart from Brood War, and also some add-ons for WarCraft 2.
The lore from all of these ISN'T canon.
AUTHORIZED means what it means, it's authorized, nothing more. Blizzard agreed that an add-on to THEIR game could be released. Hellfire may be the only one and the biggest one, it remains something made up by another team.
Na-Krul, Lester, Celia, The Defiler and the insectoid aliens which have NO reason to be here simply DO NOT EXIST.
END.
There is no Monk like those from Hellfire in Sanctuary, only those from Diablo 3.
In Hellfire, the Monks come from the Brotherhood of the Bough, which doesn't exist in Sanctuary, come from a place which we never heard of and isn't present on the official map, are dark-skinned and have a blue pair of trousers, they look like somewhat real monks.
Those from Diablo 3 have fixed roots, hang from a fixed place and stuff. They have not any of the archtypes which I just said, they have dots on the forehead which the Monks from Hellfire do not have, they are bald whereas the others had a ponytail.

I could give other reasons.

----

Edit : Thanks Bashiok.



I just linked to what the box said man, I'm not pushing for all of Hellfire to be incorporated into the "Blizzard Diablo Lore Canon (TM)", I think just adding a monk-like character will do.

The funniest part of all this is that bash is claiming that no one thought about Hellfire and they still came up with the monk. Either someone wasn't being honest in/about the character brainstorm, or perhaps subconciously they liked the monk idea from hellfire, or, could it be (and lol here), the idea of having a monk in Diablo was so good that Hellfire got it right - minus the pesky details of where the monk is "from" which is a bunch of hoo-haa anyways that a low percentage of the people that play Diablo will acutally care about.

"Here is the new class.... drumroll... Monk! Oh, Hellfire has a monk, well this is our monk, and it's different, it's a (TM) canon monk." - this is funny, laugh!
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Octopusman
  • USWest
  • 28. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/24/2009 04:33:18 PM PDT
Please release another statement saying that you don't consider Diablo 2 part of the game's history and announce the necro as a playable class. That'd be great.


Also, delete the monk which is destined to fail in Hell difficulty sans some crazy build like the kicksin and bring back Rogue/Zon.

Thanks!
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Lillhultas
  • Europe
  • 29. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/24/2009 05:34:58 PM PDT
Does the TS really think that Blizzard thought "Hey, I'm a bit unsatisfyed with how the Monk from Hellfire worked. Let's bring him back and update him a LITTLE."

Blizzard was inspired by fighting games and therefore they made something in that direction and at the same time something that worked in Diablo III. I don't think anyone even thought "Hey, this class has already been made."

The old Monk was just a dude that got increased attack speed when wearing a staff, and was not even created by Blizzard.

Every day that goes by, is a day closer to Diablo III.
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Pokey[rip]
  • USEast
  • 30. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/25/2009 08:49:50 AM PDT

Q u o t e:

The funniest part of all this is that bash is claiming that no one thought about Hellfire and they still came up with the monk. Either someone wasn't being honest in/about the character brainstorm, or perhaps subconciously they liked the monk idea from hellfire, or, could it be (and lol here), the idea of having a monk in Diablo was so good that Hellfire got it right - minus the pesky details of where the monk is "from" which is a bunch of hoo-haa anyways that a low percentage of the people that play Diablo will acutally care about.



The thought that there are tons of other RPGs out there with a "Monk" class seems to be escaping you. A monk, especially monks who fights hand to hand or with simple weapons, is a VERY, VERY, VERY common class archetype. So when you say "Either someone wasn't being honest in/about the character brainstorm, or perhaps subconciously they liked the monk idea from hellfire" they could have been thinking of any of the TONS of games with Monks in them or even real life Monks for that matter.

I really don't get how you guys think its a recycled class just because it was in Hellfire. Blizzard's stance on Hellfire in relation to the Diablo universe is: it never happened. Either way, the Monk in D3 and the Monk in Hellfire have as much to do with eachother as say a Monk in Neverwinter Nights, which is not much other then a name and a similar basic concept.
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Ressurrector
  • USWest
  • 31. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/25/2009 12:19:30 PM PDT
What's all the fuss, seriously.
Sometimes I think these forums are like 50% trolls.

There is no Good without Evil,
nor Order without Chaos.
~~Keep the balance~~
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Ukaer
  • USWest
  • 32. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/25/2009 12:21:59 PM PDT

Q u o t e:


The thought that there are tons of other RPGs out there with a "Monk" class seems to be escaping you. A monk, especially monks who fights hand to hand or with simple weapons, is a VERY, VERY, VERY common class archetype. So when you say "Either someone wasn't being honest in/about the character brainstorm, or perhaps subconciously they liked the monk idea from hellfire" they could have been thinking of any of the TONS of games with Monks in them or even real life Monks for that matter.

I really don't get how you guys think its a recycled class just because it was in Hellfire. Blizzard's stance on Hellfire in relation to the Diablo universe is: it never happened. Either way, the Monk in D3 and the Monk in Hellfire have as much to do with eachother as say a Monk in Neverwinter Nights, which is not much other then a name and a similar basic concept.



Re-read my post:


Q u o t e:

or, could it be (and lol here), the idea of having a monk in Diablo was so good that Hellfire got it right - minus the pesky details of where the monk is "from" which is a bunch of hoo-haa anyways that a low percentage of the people that play Diablo will acutally care about.


Sure other games have monks, but that misses the point. Other games have plenty of other character types, you can boil them down to close combat and ranged combat sure but then there's a lot more way to split that up than knight, monk, ranger, caster.
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Bsit
  • USEast
  • 34. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/25/2009 02:34:58 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
What's all the fuss, seriously.
Sometimes I think these forums are like 50% trolls.


95% trolls.
4.99 % evolving trolls.
.01% legit posters.

:):):):):):) This thread went from talking about diablo 3 bringing back a monk from a sierra game (not blizzard) to talking about blizzard being able to sue sierra for creating there own game. To other nonsense :):):):):):) nasty nasty boys and girls:)

To set things clear. There are tons of games with characters having the SAME class name doesnt mean one company stole that name from another. loled :) or that it is a blizzard game :O
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Ukaer
  • USWest
  • 35. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/25/2009 04:57:23 PM PDT

Q u o t e:


95% trolls.
4.99 % evolving trolls.
.01% legit posters.

:):):):):):) This thread went from talking about diablo 3 bringing back a monk from a sierra game (not blizzard) to talking about blizzard being able to sue sierra for creating there own game. To other nonsense :):):):):):) nasty nasty boys and girls:)

To set things clear. There are tons of games with characters having the SAME class name doesnt mean one company stole that name from another. loled :) or that it is a blizzard game :O


You forgot to mention that this thread also went to talking about trolls, which you are partly guilty of (and now myself, to prove a point). Seems to me there are too many people here that love to wave the troll flag when people aren't really being trolls. This forum is about a currently evolving/unfinished game and people are upset that not everyone here has a PHD to talk about Diablo in a dignified manner, geez, get over yourselves and laugh a little, it's diablo, it's not like say, talking about the fact that 3/4 of the US economy will be dept pretty soon, that's what should be depressing in you life, not that you don't know how to skip over worthless posts and move on with your life.

Anyways, I ment what I said originally, and perhaps sierra could also sue blizzard for stealing their monk idea too while you're at it :) Again, you make the same mistake to look at hellfire as "just some other game" - it requires diablo to play no? it's a diablo expansion no? Sure it's not canon, but that's not the point.


It's been official for years, this forum suffers from troll-alarm-itis
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Zelossage
  • USEast
  • 36. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/26/2009 05:31:32 PM PDT
well first the barbarian then the monk wats next
the only difference is the monk in this game is much better than the one in hellfire
why not just bring back the rogue and call it a game
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Incognito
  • USEast
  • 37. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/27/2009 08:55:34 PM PDT

Q u o t e:



Na-Krul, Lester, Celia, The Defiler and the insectoid aliens which have NO reason to be here simply DO NOT EXIST.


Na-Krul is, in fact, a part of Diablo Lore.

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Winddbourne
  • USEast
  • 38. Re: Lies about old classes? -Monk-   08/28/2009 06:49:22 PM PDT

Q u o t e:
It's not a recognized part of the Diablo franchise, and to be honest it is so much so not recognized, that when people asked about returning classes in the Q&A's and in some of the press interviews the Hellfire expansion just wasn't in anyone's minds.

Plus, it isn't the same class. We aren't taking an old class and updating it. The monk from Hellfire, and in fact the story and content of Hellfire, doesn't exist as far as game lore and story is concerned going into Diablo III.

They happen to share a name, the same as all of the other monk classes that have existed in all other RPG's since the beginning of time. It doesn't mean they're related kit/story/flavor wise.


I'm sorry but I have to call you out on this one. I bought one of the original Diablo/hellfire bundles. The entire advertising campaign on the thing wasn't just that it was "Authorized" but that it was the only OFFICIAL expansion, sold with the product. For me and many others this IS the core lore of the DIablo universe. You'd be better trying to deny Diablo II itself. They made such a huge fuss.

If you tried to not recognize the books I'd still have an issue, but I wouldn't be up in arms about it. Honestly half of nobody has read any of the books, let alone all of them, and for most fans I'm guessing they are a complete unknown. But THIS is the core for most players who started out buying a bundle pack or Diablo 1 battlechest.

If I hadn't read your post with my own eyes I'd call someone telling me ANYONE at blizzard said what you said either was lying or had misheard. Or if convinced it had been said I'd reply that the blizzard source lacked credibility or was joking.

If you don't want somone like Sierra playing in your world then . . . don't liscence the content, you aren't forced to you know? Or if you do then make them put up up in big letters that it is an UNOFFICIAL expansion pack . . . don't let it be sold with your product, quickly make your own OFFICIAL expansion that contradicts them . . . Any of that. But after ten years, and a huge advertising campaign between yourselves and sierra that this was OFFICIAL and RECOGNIZED lore . . . well now your stuck with it.

When I see the monk I think "Good I liked the monk, glad they brought it back." When it's a different monk I think "Nice a new order of monks." Sort of like The sorceress and wizard are pegged as part of the mage clans even though the sorceress had very little in common with the magic users in Diablo One when it came to game mechanics.

That's what everyone will think, and simply not recognizing it is like making a barbarian and calling it something else. You can do it, but nobody is going to care, even you guys were calling the "new" melee class barbarian and changed the name, the same goes for the monk. It is an old character brought back and saying otherwise just makes you look a tad bit silly.

At least to anyone who collects the games and has the huge "big deal" printed in bold letters "only authorized expansion" bundle pack box and manuals. Of course the kids who were introduced to the series with D2 might take you seriously, and people who are introduced in D3 won't care one way or the other . . . but in the end your stuck with Hellfire. You simply made too big a deal about it being official lore to get rid of it now. The content of hellfire exists as far as game lore and story goes . . . you made sure of that years ago. Deal with it.

Not that I mind having another old class brought back, or would have complained. The monk is one of the few classes I really am happy to see. I've always liked the monk, sort of like I've always liked the necromancer in Diablo II. It's just that this statement is too silly to let slide without comment.

[ Post edited by Winddbourne ]

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