Bible Protector

[Steven Avery]

Hi Folks,

1 John 5:8
And there are three that bear witness in earth,
the spirit, and the water, and the blood:
and these three agree in one.

Here I think it would be helpful to point out that one of the simplest and crispest interpretations of verse 8 absolutely must be lower case for scripture consistency. And I will show this by using the writing of William Fleming, while substituting PCE verse presentation (sans italics) to his presentation .. ironically one which has too many caps for pronouns. (The abbreviation "SS." I am not sure of the meaning.)

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The true church of the Bible (1895)
Instructions For Anglicans And Dissenters,
Instructions For Jews And Unitarians
William Fleming
http://books.google.com/books?id=VgqKNTzACNgC&pg=PA90
The Spirit or Holy Ghost in verse 7 must not be taken as identical with the spirit in verse 8. SS. Athanasius and Augustine teach that the spirit in the latter verse refers to the last dying breath of our Lord when He 'gave up the ghost' (John, xix. 30); and ' the water and blood' to that which issued from His side, opened by the soldier's lance (John, xix. 34), both of which prove that Jesus is truly man. On the other hand, the Father, the Word, and the Spirit in verse 7 testified at Christ's baptism that He is truly God. That testimony is given by

St. Matthew (iii. 16-17): 'And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. (John, viii. 14).

Hence the Father, the Holy Ghost, and our Lord Himself testify to His divinity; and the water and blood, together with our Lord's last breath, bear witness to His sacred humanity

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Luke 23:46
And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said,
Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit:
and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar,
he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

John 19:34
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side,
and forthwith came there out blood and water.


These last two verses covering the three component earthly witnesses and being written by John is a strong indication of interpretation strength.

Shalom,
Steven

[GRD]

Thanks; that helps validation.
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1Peter 1:18,19
redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

[bibleprotector]

SS = saints, as in, Saint Athanasius and Saint Augustine.

Hills quotes Augustine's teaching,

“If we wish to inquire about these things, what they signify, not absurdly does the Trinity suggest Itself, who is the one, only, true, and highest God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, concerning whom it could most truly be said, Three are Witnesses, and the Three are One. By the word spirit we consider God the Father to be signified, concerning the worship of whom the Lord spoke, when He said, God is a spirit. By the word blood the Son is signified, because the Word was made flesh. And by the water we understand the Holy Spirit. For when Jesus spoke concerning the water which He was about to give the thirsty, the evangelist says, This He spake concerning the Spirit whom those that believed in Him would receive.”
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Matthew Verschuur — www.bibleprotector.com

[Steven Avery]

Hi Folks,

The section from Augustine can get complex because there is a big discussion (even including a 1934 German paper St. Augustinus gegen das 'Comma Johanneum'? by Norbert Fickermann) as to whether or not Augustine had verse seven in his Bible. And Edward Hills was discussing some traditional theories of interpolation, not explaining the fulness of the Augustine references.

Thus, in the same section given by Edward Hills from Contra Maximinum Arianum we have:

Three things then we know to have issued from the Body of the Lord when He hung upon the tree: first, the spirit: of which it is written, "And He bowed the head and gave up the spirit:'' then, as His side was pierced by the spear, "blood and water."

This would correlate directly to what William Fleming was writing.

Shalom,
Steven Avery