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Has The Alistair Overeem Workout Plan Influenced Our Expectations For Jon Jones?

Apr 21, 2012; Atlanta, GA, USA; Jon Jones reacts to beating Rashad Evans in the main event and light heavyweight title bout during UFC 145 at Philips Arena. Jon Jones won the bout by unanimous decision. Mandatory Credit: Paul Abell-US PRESSWIRE

Before the sweat had a chance to dry on Jon Jones' brow following his dominant performance against Rashad Evans, Dana White had already announced that the next challenger to his 205 pound throne would be Dan Henderson. By early next week, rumors were starting to spread that the fight would take place later this summer, at UFC 149 in Calgary. The UFC has shot those rumors down, instead stating that they would likely hold the fight in the early fall.

By this time, everyone is well aware that there are precious few challengers remaining for Jones at the light heavyweight weight limit. In fact, after Henderson, there is really no one else who fits the bill. Some will argue that Alexander Gustafsson will be ready by that time but he has yet to be booked into a fight following his victory over Thiago Silva at UFC on FUEL TV 2 earlier this month and he has exactly zero victories over top ten opponents in his current five fight win streak, leading me to believe that such talk is a little premature.

With this decided lack of challengers, most of the talk about Jones' future involves a move up to the heavyweight division, and soon. The move seems a foregone conclusion to such an extent that Dana White is already cautioning Jones against doing it too soon.

I have to admit that I'm a little surprised to hear such strong declarations about Jones' future. After all, there has been a grand total of zero UFC champions who have vacated the title in one division to pursue a second title in the weight class above.

Middleweight champion Anderson Silva has twice dipped his toes into the water at light heavyweight, both times destroying his opponents.

Yet Silva has refused to make the jump a permanent one despite going through a considerable stretch of less than stellar challengers, something very similar to what Jones could be facing should he defeat Henderson.

Welterweight champion Georges St. Pierre has been long rumored to be on the verge of moving up to the middleweight division to challenge Silva in a highly anticipated superfight but he too has stayed at his natural home.

Star-divide

It's not only the champions who avoid this practice. Very few UFC fighters have ever moved up a weight class during a successful stretch in their career. Randy Couture, Dan Henderson and B.J. Penn are essentially the only fighters to have had success at two weight divisions in the UFC's history, although their situations are quite different than Jones':

  • Penn jumped between the 155 and 170 pound divisions and rarely cut weight for the fights at 170.
  • Henderson fought at 185 and 205 numerous times during his Pride and early UFC careers, and his story is similar to Penn's: Cut weight to get to 185, basically fought at 205 as a 205 pounder.
  • Couture fought at 205 and as a heavyweight, yet he rarely weighed in at more than 220 for his heavyweight tilts.

Trying to find a fighter that added a bunch of weight and moved up a division permanently during the prime of their career is pretty difficult, if not impossible.

So why are people so confident that Jones will just move on up in the next year or so? I believe that Alistair Overeem has a lot to do with it.

Overeem, of course, spent the majority of his career at light heavyweight before putting on a bunch of muscle in his late 20's, becoming a heavyweight and re-igniting his career.

Jones' size compares very favorably to that of Overeem, when the Dutchman was fighting at 205 pounds:

Jones is 6'4 with an 84.5 inch reach and cuts from about 225 pounds. Overeem is 6'5 with an 81 inch reach, and he also cut from about 225-230 pounds. It would be pretty reasonable to say that, all things being equal, Jones will follow a path similar to Overeem and end up in the heavyweight division.

Except not all things are equal.

Overeem has long been suspected of using performance enhancing substances to help him put on muscle. Since he signed with the UFC, he has been involved in two very suspicious situations relating to performance enhancers.

He failed to provide the Nevada State Athletic Commission (NSAC) with a urine sample in a timely fashion for a random drug screening in December of last year, prior to his UFC debut against Brock Lesnar. Overeem was granted a conditional license to fight Lesnar, one of the conditions being that he undergo two more random drug screenings within the next six months. One of those drug screenings took place following a press conference to promote UFC 146 in late March. Overeem failed the screening. His testosterone to epitestosterone ratio was reported as being 14:1, more than twice what the NSAC allows (6:1).

Overeem explained to the NSAC that the reason for his elevated ratio was an anti-inflammatory shot he was given to heal a rib injury. While the commission ultimately believed that Overeem did not intend to cheat, they still ruled that he could not apply for a license to fight in Nevada for a period of nine months.

Of course, none of this proves that Overeem used performance enhancers to gain all that weight. It simply makes it a lot more likely that he did.

And if he did, then should we really be sitting here, expecting Jon Jones to undergo a similar growth spurt?

I say no, we shouldn't.

Even more troubling is if Jones eventually does move up to heavyweight, will he be forced to answer the same questions that have been asked of Overeem?

It seems to me that it would be incredibly unfair if that was the case.

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oh god "The Alistair Overeem Workout Plan"

f’n GOLD, Jerry. GOLD!

The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at http://www.headkicklegend.com
"What if Lin was a Water Polo star?"
"I would dress as a seahorse and let him ride me until his thighs are bleeding" - nywins46

by Cory Braiterman on May 1, 2012 5:26 PM EDT reply actions  

hah! glad you liked it.

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by Luke Nelson on May 1, 2012 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jon stay in light heavyweight

He will get knock ou if he go heavy

by ogoundele16 on May 1, 2012 7:31 PM EDT via iPhone app reply actions  

I think one thing people are forgetting

Is that as the pool of fighters increases it is more difficult to jump between weight classes. It easier to be dominant is a shallow pool than a deep one, I think the jump to heavy weight for jones only happens if cannot make LHW, not as a decision

by MrPants on May 1, 2012 7:31 PM EDT reply actions  

He's not a 90 pound weakling right now

I’m not sure he can put a whole lot more muscle mass on without the aid of PEDs. Honestly, if he were to take HGH it would be his best bet, because that would fill out his lanky bone structure.

Truth be told, he’s not going to be a big heavyweight methinks.

by Scott Whitaker on May 2, 2012 5:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

"he’s not going to be a big heavyweight methinks."

Agreed. I bet he doesn’t get bigger than 235-240.

"I like a man who grins when he fights" - Winston Churchill

"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be." - Kahlil Gibran

by merryprankster on May 2, 2012 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would be shocked if he hits 240

Unless he puts on some body fat, or uses PEDs.

by Scott Whitaker on May 3, 2012 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Funny.

Of course, you talk about the lack of guys to move up when they are successful. Alistair went through a rough patch that had people saying he was really good, but not quite there and never would be. Essentially he was a guy that was written off in kickboxing, and about to be written off in mma.

Boxing is the real culprit.

Besides, I think the real secret to becoming the new heavuweight kingpin, would be to follow the ice-cream diet instead.

by ToffeeA on May 2, 2012 2:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Sorry, I'm a bit unsure what you're getting at...
Boxing is the real culprit.

What do you mean by that?

And what do you mean when you say it’s funny that I talked about guys not moving up when successful? They simply don’t. People are treating Jones’ move up to heavy as a foregone conclusion. I think Alistair has a lot to do with that.

Author at Head Kick Legend
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by Luke Nelson on May 2, 2012 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

My point.

Alistair didn’t move up when was successful. He became successful after he moved up.

I think it has a lot more to do with Lyoto Machida than Big Al. Remember how as soon as he won the title people were talking about him fighting at heavyweight, because there was nobody to give him a real challenge except for Anderson? This time, however, Jones has decisively won his follow-up bouts.

Many boxers progress their career by gaining weight, for new competition, age & bigger fights. It contrasts with MMA where people have started much later in life and the mantra now is: “..wouldn’t it be awesome if X dropped to Yweight?” “Your next fight is at 77kg bro, featherweight here we come!”

by ToffeeA on May 3, 2012 4:04 AM EDT reply actions  

alistair is quite possibly the only example in mma where that works

that means it’s an outlier. Also he took PED’s to do it. Boxers progress through divisions because there are classes every 5 pounds. That is not the case in MMA, and from LHW to HW he’d then be facing dudes upwards of 40 pounds heavier.

The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at http://www.headkicklegend.com
"What if Lin was a Water Polo star?"
"I would dress as a seahorse and let him ride me until his thighs are bleeding" - nywins46

by Cory Braiterman on May 3, 2012 5:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

Where what works?

Moving up, getting a couple of good wins while demolishing guys he thoroughly outclasses? Jones could do that for sure. Tim Sylvia’s on a win streak – who’s got his phone number? He could add another former UFC champion to his list.

I understand your point that his opponents could outweigh him by a large amount, but I reckon he’d be heavier than quite a few former big-name heavyweights. If he was following the Overeem example, he would need a demoralising losing stretch.

With regards to Alistair’s success in superheavyweight kickboxing, it cannot be ignored that he returned to the sport with a vastly improved skillset.

by ToffeeA on May 3, 2012 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

the example of people moving up

COULD Jones do it? probably. Would it be anything like his success at LHW? …… maybe, maybe not. Aside from ‘Reem, there’s almost no one in this sport who’s had greater success going up a weight class, especially compared with moving down one: Evans, Bisping, Stann, Franklin etc. all come to mind. Anyone got some other examples?

The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at http://www.headkicklegend.com
"What if Lin was a Water Polo star?"
"I would dress as a seahorse and let him ride me until his thighs are bleeding" - nywins46

by Cory Braiterman on May 3, 2012 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

of guys moving down a class?

So many.

Martin Kampmann, Demian Maia, Jake Shields, (although he’s moving back now), Kenny Florian, Jacob Volkmann, everyone who dropped to 145 after it got added: Dennis Siver, Tyson Griffin, Cole Miller, etc.

Guys who fought (and won) on the Ultimate fighter just to fight on the show such as Tony Ferguson, Jonathan Brookins.

Karlos Vemola is dropping ANOTHER weight class on Saturday, starting at heavy and dropping to middleweight.

Aaron Simpson, Luiz Cane. Lyoto Machida just came out and said he’d have dropped to 185 if he didn’t get the Bader fight when he did.

I mean, there is just so many. I guess not all of these guys have had success, (or success yet since some of the moves are pretty recent) but with all the new divisions in the company, we’re seeing a trend starting to develop of guys dropping a weight class.

No one is moving up.

Author at Head Kick Legend
Reach me here: LukeNelsonMMA@gmail.com

by Luke Nelson on May 3, 2012 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Guys have been dropping weight classes since they were brought in.

Lots of people started out by bloating up in order to compete with much larger athletes. It’s only the last few years that with more weight classes getting mainstream support (i.e. UFC opportunities) and more skilled fighters that people are finally being cured of the hangover of “no holds barred” fighting.

Personally I was always sick of hearing people declare their need to drop a weight class for the next upcoming tournament but for the most part it makes sense in mma, especially with the large weight classes.

My issue with the article is that you talk about guys not going up in weight while having success, then try and pin the idea of Jones moving up on Overeem, when Overeem had hit a ceiling and went up to circumvent it. When Lyoto Machida won the title, the talk of him fighting at heavyweight was only drowned out by the clamour for Anderson’s blood – perhaps it is “untouchable” champions and the LHW weight class itself that is the issue.

Speaking of Anderson, surely the article should read “Middleweight champion and former welterweight Anderson Silva…”

by ToffeeA on May 3, 2012 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

.....
surely the article should read Middleweight champion and former welterweight Anderson Silva…

Okay I get it. You don’t particularly agree with the article and you are willing to nitpick it to the nth degree.

Surely you realize that you sound innane when you say "Overeem hit a ceiling and then went up to circumvent it"?

Because, you know, most fighters who are losing at a particular weight class usually try to remedy the situation by moving up and fighting bigger guys.

And besides, Overeem has fought tin cans and Fabricio Werdum since he moved up to heavyweight. His last five losses at 205 were to Prime Shogun (twice), Prime Lil Nog (twice) and Ricardo Arona.

You can’t say why he moved up, cause you have no idea. The fact is that he moved up, he almost surely used PEDs to help with the process and that is that. Whether or not that has influenced the narrative when it comes to Jones moving up is the point of the article, and I think it’s a wholly valid one.

Author at Head Kick Legend
Reach me here: LukeNelsonMMA@gmail.com

by Luke Nelson on May 3, 2012 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones can maybe beat some guys like Kongo or schaub but cannot stand with the top 5 he must get ko or out wrestle

by ogoundele16 on May 3, 2012 6:42 AM EDT via iPhone app reply actions  

Aside from the points I brought up in the article...

….I do think Jones would destroy a lot of heavyweights.

Dos Santos, Overeem and Mir are the only guys I think he’d lose to and I’m not even sure he’d lose to Mir.

I think he’d destroy Cain standing.

Author at Head Kick Legend
Reach me here: LukeNelsonMMA@gmail.com

by Luke Nelson on May 3, 2012 1:52 PM EDT reply actions  


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