I’ve been getting into something I never thought I would get into, lately – newspaper strip reprints. I’ve been going all-in with Milt Caniff, and I’ll have to give the Bond omnibi a try. Thanks for the tip!

never knew there was a james bond comic strip proably because it was not here in the u.s will have to track down that omnibus now. as for revolution have to agree how dumb all the people are that they can not figure out how to create some new power like steam engines. as for elementary think the ones who pitched it were trying to modernize sherlock holmes and watson as if they were written now in the 21 century.

I am a huge Sherlock Holmes fan. In fact Holmes is what first got me involved in comics, but that’s a long story. I never even gave Elementary a chance. Jeremy Brett did it best and the new Sherlock across the pond is phenomenal. I even like the Downey version to a certain extent. The commercials for Elementary were so bad I decided to pass on it. From those commercials I inferred that Lucy Lui’s main function would be to insult and denigrate the Holmes character. He appeared to just be a poor caricature of the character I love so well. I decided that, if others, like yourself, said it was good, that I might try to catch it in reruns. Based on everything I’ve heard/read, I haven’t missed anything.

..okay, I haven’t seen Sherlock, but WHY is Elementary badly written, other than the fact that it’s not Sherlock? What’s wrong with the show on a technical level? I’ve seen the two extant episodes, and while it isn’t brilliant, it’s certainly watchable. And the use of Lucy Liu as Watson really does create a different dynamic.

…WHY is Elementary badly written, other than the fact that it’s not Sherlock? What’s wrong with the show on a technical level? I’ve seen the two extant episodes, and while it isn’t brilliant, it’s certainly watchable.

Well, if you enjoyed it, more power to you. A large part of my objection to it is that it’s essentially a ‘scab’ version of the show CBS tried to get and couldn’t. But on a technical level–

–the mysteries as they are set up are not good. They are implausible, but worse, they masquerade as fair-play puzzles when in fact important pieces are withheld and smart people made to look stupid simply so Sherlock can appear to be brilliant. In both episodes seen so far, Sherlock magically comes up with stuff that beat cops would have found during the first round of witness interviews. Trying not to spoil it for other folks but there are important connections and relationships kept hidden that simply would not have been. CASTLE gets around this by having the amateur along as the cops do the interviews and most other shows also have some kind of fig leaf for it; ELEMENTARY just ignored it. One of my pet peeves is people who write bad mystery plots and then claim the hero is brilliant for solving them by pulling answers out of his butt. The second episode did better on that than the first but neither mystery was very good.

–Lucy Liu’s Watson is a very bad ‘sober companion.’ I know a little something about addiction and recovery and she sucks at her job. The 12-step meetings Holmes attends are not great either, and if he’s genuinely court-ordered as part of a deferred prosecution there’s other stuff that goes along with it. He’d NEVER just bolt out of a meeting without getting his slip signed… or Watson, at least, retrieving that slip for him after he dashes out; that’s a legal document, it keeps him out of jail. You don’t just run off without it. Although I freely grant you that the last one is just me, America probably doesn’t care about stuff like that.

–the character drama between Holmes and Watson is not terribly compelling, or even terribly consistent. He’s a jerk to her, she’s a bitch to him, eventually they build grudging respect. Yawn. (Although it’s only two episodes in, there’s a reasonable expectation that this be interesting, or at least not so painfully familiar.)

And the use of Lucy Liu as Watson really does create a different dynamic.

Different than the Conan Doyle version, sure, but what’s the point? If you’re going to make Watson a woman, what’s the reason? If it’s not romance, then what makes it different? In particular, what makes it different than Monk? Or The Mentalist? Nothing as far as I can tell. If those other shows hadn’t already been done then there might be a point, but as it is, the net result has been to jam the show into a more familiar format, not a new and different one.

Which is really my big gripe. Strip away Holmes’ tics and accent and you’re left with a show that hasn’t got anything genuinely new in it. It’s The Mentalist with a fresh coat of paint.

Greg:”No. Sorry, but no. It’s a great idea but they can’t sell it. It doesn’t make sense. We had an industrial society long before there was electric power and running water to every home– decades before. I can’t buy that in fifteen years, no one’s sussed out how to put together a steam engine. Or gaslight. Or, hell, any of the stuff that was common throughout the late 1800s. Sure, for the first two years of the electricity failure it’d be all camping and crossbows. Maybe even the first five.”

Spot on, sir. When I tried watching this show, the same questions started popping up in my head. Why don’t they have all the technology that existed before electricity: steam powered locomotives, repeating rifles, gatling guns, steam ships, gas lighting, photography (yep, it was around before electricity), etc. What makes it all the more annoying, is that S.M. Stirling (in his DIES THE FIRE books, a series that
I have a sneaking suspicion that the show’s creators have read) dealt with this issue. Now his solution was not exactly scientific, but it was a solution, so one would think that the writers had to at least be aware of the problem.

Yeah, but all that stuff’s from, like, 100 years ago or something. You’d have to be some rilly rilly OLD person to know how any of that stuff, like, works. Like, f’r sher!

I suspect that it’s some sort of “social commentary” — we’re so reliant on technology, man, that if we didn’t have electricity any more, we’d be over, man! Kick me that hacky sack and pass me that Phish tape!

Wouldn’t there still be lightning during storms and stuff, too?

I suspect that it’s some sort of “social commentary” — we’re so reliant on technology, man, that if we didn’t have electricity any more, we’d be over, man!

I suspect so too. But it’s been done better. Like here. Or here. Or even here. And some of those had cool fights too.

That’s the trouble with being a pop culture encyclopedia, you see echoes everywhere. It’s my curse. Sigh.

Ah, so it wasn’t just me then. I wanted to like Revolution going in but I had all the same problems with the premise you enumerated plus one: the loss of electrical power wouldn’t stop existing guns from working so there was no reason other than plot convenience for the village folk to be defenseless before Giancarlo’s thugs (This is America, after all. If production stopped tomorrow, we’d still have enough weapons and ammo to keep us happily shooting each other for another hundred years, never mind fifteen). That, and I couldn’t shake the feeling that the show was aimed squarely at the Hunger Games demographic.

I will be giving Arrow a try but I have low expectations.

I gave up on Revolution before it even premiered. I saw the trailer for the show and it depicted the immediate aftermath of the loss of electricity by having a plane crash. Not like a real plane crash, where it would hit at an angle at speed, but it was SPINNING AROUND like its momentum mysteriously stopped working too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=JwfCRAtkYEI#t=40s

That told me all I needed to know about the show’s credibility.

*raises eyebrow*

So let me get this straight… you’re ripping REVOLUTION and ELEMENTARY (and deservedly so), but you’re praising LAST RESORT, which is just as bad of a show with its completely unbelievable plot and characterizations, not to mention what you already acknowledge as the gaffes that any military (particularly naval) person can plainly spot, because “it (presuming you mean the story)’s worth it”? Nah. All of these shows are pretty equally bad in their own contexts, and one could make a solid case that none deserve to last a full season.

Seems it’s been a really bad fall season of new shows all around.

As for ARROW… I’ll probably end up missing it as it seems Gannett Corporation wants to charge Dish Network “too much money”, so apparently my CBS and CW local affiliates won’t be available to me indefinitely (until they make some sort of agreement) after Oct. 7. (Am I the only one – are other Dish subscribers being threatened with losing their CBS & CW affiliates, or is this just a local thing for my area?)

By the way, RE: the James Bond Strip – Randy Zimmerman (the old Publisher for Arrow Comics) currently runs it in his FLINT COMIX & ENTERTAINMENT newspaper magazine among other cool syndicated strips and original comics content . The Bond stuff started in issue FCE#16 and I think they’re somewhere in the mid forties now. You can find both Flint Comix and Randy on Facebook. Maybe if you ask nicely he can send you a few copies to share with your classes for the cost of postage. Just FYI.

Just as I got to the part where you started describing “Elementary,” I thought, “I wonder if Greg’s ever watched Sherlock?” And sure enough. I’ve only seen about two and a half episodes (here in Croatia it’s aired in some god-awful late Sunday night time-slot), but I have to say that it’s a really fun show, and I’m not even a big Holmes fan. And why’s “The Mentalist” getting dissed? That’s one of the best hour-long sitcoms I’ve seen in ages.

And thanks for the tip on Warped; I’ll probably be picking that up at some point, if for no other reason than that page you posted here reminded me a bit of D.R. & Quinch (which reminds me, I really need to read that again…)

Louis, I do believe that the parent of CBS and the CW is Viacom. I am quite reasonably sure that Gannett is not the owner of those networks. Just to be clear on who is dicking you over here.

But none of the new fall shows have really appealed to me either. If I get a chance to see Arrow, I might give it a try, but that’s unlikely.

And wow, I just looked at imdb to see the schedule, and it’s not even listed. And I know they list CW, because that’s where I’d find out about Ringer. Less than a week to air, guys….

I will be taping Walking Dead when that comes back next Sunday. I had forgotten it was going to be back “this soon” (he says, realizing that the post-s2 marathon of the show was 3 months ago now, let alone when the season had actually ended….)

I had the exact same issues with “Revolution.” There would have had to have been a simultaneous worldwide “dumbass bomb” or something to explain the status quo on that show. (Actually, given the general quality of all forms of media, maybe one of those did go off at some point…)
I haven’t bothered with “Elementary.” We had to sit through a featurette about it when we went to the movies a few months back, and it throoughly convinced me that I would hate the show. Shame, since I really dig Holmes.
I’m cautiously optimistic about “Arrow.” CW has a terrible track record with me, but I’ve seen just enough promise in this that it may not be douched up to the CW standard. Here’s hoping.
Aside from giving “Arrow” a shot, we’re looking forward to the return of “The Walking Dead,” and I’ll be checking out the new season of “American Horror Story.” The first season was uneven, but ultimately enjoyable, so hopefully the new season will improve on it. I will miss the young maid, though.
I’ve got a couple of the old editions of the 007 comic strips, and enjoyed them. I keep meaning to pick up these omnibus editions, but never seem to get around to it. Money is just too tight for everything I wanna buy.

And by the way, hope you both are feeling better soon! I certainly remember my days of catching everything that went around, and it wasn’t fun.

Drunken Fist:”I had the exact same issues with “Revolution.” There would have had to have been a simultaneous worldwide “dumbass bomb” or something to explain the status quo on that show. (Actually, given the general quality of all forms of media, maybe one of those did go off at some point…)”

I would love to see Abrams do a series where society has to cope with the effects of a “dumbass bomb.”

Mr Hatcher, as you mention Ian Fleming and Bond, I wonder if you’ve read any of John Gardner’s 007 novels? Although the later books get bogged-down in double crosses and unBondianness the earlier ones – such as Role of Honour and Scorpius – are surprisingly enjoyable (if sometimes a bit grim). There is rnough action and espionage to compensate. And Gardner adds some silly things (not that he always intended too!).
I may be alone in thinking Sherlock would be better if it was not supposed to be Holmes. Moffat doesn’t really have the courage of his convictions, note how the cliffhanger from Series One was blown off while Holmes rescued Irene Adler as if he was Buldog Drummond. Tthe Private Life of Sherlock Holmrs better!

Um, to complete my thought – with fewer rushed typos – The Private Pife of Sherlock Holmes, which appears to have been an inspiration for A Scandal In Belgravia becsuse of its maturity, Gabrielle Valladon is a spy who captures Holmes’s heart (this is subtle, not spelled out in neon ) dies in the end off-screen but Sherlock because it is fundamentally a more conventional and adolescent version of the Holmes mythos (with the kind of trite dialogue and situations that mark it out as early 21C, you know the kind of stuff that turns up all over the place because it’s what’s expected by much of the modern audience) Holmes’s becomes a superhero who rescues Irene. This actually seems typical of Moffat’s approach to both Sherlock and Doctor Who, for all the stuff that now passes as “wit” and the Big Ideas, he *won’t* challenge the audience. So, *of course* Holmes saves Irene and *of course* Moriarty spouts sub-Joss Whedonisms and *of course* Amy and Rory aren’t killed in Doctor Who outright, though you would think from Moffat’s comments they had been. Moffat’s writing and the praise it receives gets right up my nose because he usually manages to have it both ways, and he refuses to go uh “all the way” with his own concepts even if the stories lack any true resonance due to that. Sherlock is *okay* but Moffat’s (and Gatiss’s) version of the character is too toothless in order not to alienate the audience, I could rant some more but I’d only end up blathering about how the Doctor Who finale ended up making the Doctor look like an ineffectual fool, so I won’t! Nor will I go on about how Moffat’s making up and changing the rules of his recent stories as he goes along is shamefully lazy writing depending on the audience being too dumb to expect him to respect even his own logic, no sir, I won’t do *that* . Sherlock is still many times better than the Stepfordian Elementary tho’ (having said that, at least Elementary won’t have the co-creator casting himself in a role he is ill-suited for!). One more thing Benedict Cumberbatch is far weaker as Holmes than Rathbone, Robert Stephens, and, of course, the Great Jeremy Brett. I guess this all irritates me so much partly because of the te the tendency to overpraise certain things (usually at the expense of good or even wonderful things from the past, soooo smug) that has become a plague over the past decade-plus. Boy, it feels good to let all that out, it sometimes seems that any dissent about Modern Doctor Who or Sherlock or the writing ofSteven of Steven Moffat or Whedon (don’t even *mention* Abrams!) is tantamount to treason cy’know it’s all awesome! I think I better take my medication!

How could they make a Sherlock Holmes show called “Elementary” and NOT make it about Holmes and Watson as kids in elementary school????

Last Resort is my new favorite thing on TV, it’s just so goddamn relentlessly compelling. So I bet it will be dead after six weeks.

Personally, I always thought that the John Gardner Bonds were usually entertaining, but they never “felt” like Bond to me. They come off like a more generic men’s adventure series. There have only been a couple of Bond novels written by someone other than Fleming that I felt nailed it, and Gardner wasn’t responmsible for any of them. All that said, I did enjoy the majority of Garnder’s books on their own merits. Most of them are good, solid potboilers.

Travis:

I know they’re Viacom related, but Dish is claiming it’s Gannett who is the culprit, and it’s the CW and CBS stations who are running the script of “you could lose this channel” across the bottom of their screens. But it doesn’t matter who’s the blame or what their reasons are; if they turn the stations off, they turn them off. No big. *shrugs* (BTW, Dish doesn’t carry AMC anymore either, so any WALKING DEAD fans got screwed, there, too.)

Personally, I don’t care. I gave up my TV service over two years ago; my dad just transferred it over to his name and keeps it so that he has something to do when he gets tired of reading / doing crosswords. So without him living with me, I wouldn’t even have television.

Louis: Ah, that’s right, I forgot that giant conglomerates have their fingers in all the pies, and that Gannett owns some TV stations. My apologies, but I have a *cough cough* vested interest *cough cough* in Gannett.

Subscribe to your local newspaper, folks!!!

And obligatory “Deadworld is better than Walking Dead anyway” reference just for you, Louis

I…I like them both, actually. I bought the 5 issue Deadworld War of the Dead mini that was just out from IDW, and will undoubtedly be out in trade form soon. It’s pretty good. I think it would have been a bit better if the artist wasn’t of the Ashley Wood style, but that might just be me.

Hal’s comment is one of the reasons I like the internet, particularly this site. He makes a case for the Moffat shows being flawed in certain ways, and it’s a nice antidote to a lot of the love he gets elsewhere. I enjoy having my assumptions challenged and having people discuss an alternate point of view in an intelligent way, so I can rethink what my own assumptions are.

I’m weird, I know.

jccalhoun has a great idea, and I would totally watch a Holmes in elementary school show. Even like an anime chibi version.

Travis, thank you, good sir! Reading that made my day, it’s nice to able to offer a dissenting view and for it to be seen as worthwhile (even if I was viperous, I think I was reasonable, too). Not wishing to be a suck-up, but I enjoy your comments as well especially the long or hilarious ones .
Broken Fist – I agree about Gardner’s novels (the good ones at least) I think of them as alternative Bonds, like the varying movie depictions or the books by Faulks, Higson, Deaver, Amis et al. Apropos of nothing, my favourite Bond movie is On Her Majesty’s Secret Service but I also like For Your Eyes Only, Goldfinger, and Live and Let Die etc, while my favourite Bond is Dalton so I’m uh not fixed in my Bond preferences, though Fleming is, of course, the original master. Wow, I’m profligate!

Oops, I meant *Drunken* Fist…and profligate with my Bond affections, so to speak!