Moving-World DECEPTION!!

Created by Bernie: of the family: Brauer; "New Feudal World Order" conspiracy crimes researcher. 

Counter-intelligence (based on persuasion, nonviolence, non-archism and the Spirit of Truth) against the synagogue of Satan  and their trainload of lies about the Cosmos, coming from universities, NASA and Big Media (weapons of mass distraction).


Security Classification Level: Cosmic Top Secret (CTS).





There is Something about "Space" that THEY Don't Want You to Know:


The Sun "Spiral-Orbits" Around the MOTIONLESS, Spherical Earth!!

... but the planets (from planasthai "to wander") orbit the sun, and the Earth is not a planet.


The World (Earth and unattached atmosphere) is neither rotating around its own axis nor orbiting the Sun. In reality the Sun, Stars and Moon are going around the Stationary, Spherical World just as observed and just as the Bible, Quran, and 1 Enoch say:

(Sun 24hrs... Moon 24hrs 50min 28sec... Stars 23hrs 56min 4sec... all east to west.)




True, non-hypothetical SCIENCE (observational data, our senses, physical experiments, and logic) contradicts the assertions of Mainstream Science's existing deceitful, fraud-ridden, unverifiable, State-funded, "mathematical" (exists and works on paper and in imagination only) model of the universe that is saturated with metaphysical nonsense and derived from the mystical Zohar/Kabbala (sorcery/darkmagic/witchcraft) of the Pharisee RELIGION. Moreover, the intelligible Christian Holy Bible's voluntarily-funded Geocentric/Geostationary model of the universe proclaims:

The Sun's PATH Creates and Completes an Orbit Around the Motionless, Spherical Earth Daily.


 The Sun and Moon "circle daily" East-to-West whilst set within and carried along a spiral North-South path;

Sun: about 6 months southbound then about 6 months northbound;

Moon: about 2 weeks southbound then about 2 weeks northbound.

The Stars are set within the inner surface of a ROTATING Celestial Sphere and "circle nightly" from East-to-West.




Sixty-seven (67) "Sun is Moving" Bible quotes HERE.



We (true science Geocentrists) are 100% sure that the Earth is STATIONARY because the unattached atmosphere (a gas) cannot be "gripped" and rotated along with the alleged rotation of the Earth, and we experience no 1,038 mph winds as a result of this rotation. Helocentrists will do anything to avoid and redirect the topic or issue in the conversation (thirty-eight debating tricks) to something else (like the phases of Venus, etc.) because a rotating Earth is their Big Lie is the basis, the bedrock foundation, the chief cornerstone, the taproot of their entire edifice of cosmic lies and deceptions. Pull a rotating Earth away and their entire mathematical, hypothetical model collapses. Talk to any chemistry professor or Ph.D. who understands the properties of the States of Matter (and who is not a fool) and they will confirm this foundational issue of the interaction between "solids, liquids and gases".


"In the Big Lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation - [they are Deniers of obvious evidence (like the basic physics and chemistry properties of an unattached gas/atmosphere) and are not aware that there is an evil Satan-led "Global Management Team" that is run by Schemers] - are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the Big Lie [like the Earth being able to "grip" the unattached atmosphere (a gas) and rotate it at 1,038 mph; and in addition have us feel no 1,038 mph winds] than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying." Wiki



Star Trails - Time Lapse Photo

Either the stars are actually going around nightly because the Earth is not-rotating or it just looks that way because the Earth is supposedly rotating, even though we feel no 1,038 mph winds as a result of the speed of rotation.


Time Lapse Photo by Yuichi Takasaka - (copyright) - permission granted for Moving-Earth DECEPTION!!

The unsubstantiated THEORY of organic evolution relies on a rotating and orbiting Earth. After all God created the universe first before He created man so it's more foundational. The 14 billion year age of the universe is derived from the 14 billion light-years radius of the universe. But if the Earth is stationary that means the Stars are actually going around "nightly" as shown above and if the stars are going around nightly then they are not one-trillionth of the distance we are told by "mainstream science" (government funded and monopoly-currency funded science.) That then knocks the main support away from organic evolution, namely the 14 billion years they need to give their god of CHANCE its time to work. (see Stellar Distances).


If the moving SUN makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

"If the SON therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." John 8:36



Moving-World DECEPTION!! - The Granddaddy of all False-Science Government Funding Frauds!

Information about the true Cosmos which is small, finite, electromagnetic, and is a rotating Celestial Sphere (view image HERE and another image HERE), that revolves around the stationary Spherical Earth "daily", and is based on the Bible AND True Science.


Last updated: September 18, 2012,     One Page Handout,     World Science Database,       

* List of twenty-six science research essays by Neville T. Jones, Ph.D. - HERE*
He has an IQ of 145, which is at the 97th percentile on the genuine IQ test and solved the U.S. President John F. Kennedy Murder (HERE)


***Special welcome to the following visitors/agencies to this website: US Navy, NASA, NOAA, US Army Information Systems Command, US Marine Corps (Camp Pendleton), US House of Representatives, "Ottawa", Microsoft Headquarters, Level 3 Communications Headquarters (operates a Tier 1 network), Others. Kay Griggs says the Navy's Marines are called upon for assassinations (includes poisoning).
If you fight the New World Order you will come under Satanic Attack and experience Suffering; kind of like this: 2 Corinthians 11:23-28 - "Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness."
2 Corinthians 10:4 – “The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds."
"All that is needed for the triumph of evil is for good men to be given good jobs." Henry Makow
Are you a Sheeple? If you don't know that THREE buildings were demolished through controlled demolition (pre-planted explosives) during the September 11, 2001 World Trade Center attack, that the whole scheme was orchestrated by the synagogue of Satan, and that Building 7 was the control center for the whole operation and this evidence had to be destroyed, then consider yourself a certified Sheeple. Watch first 20 seconds of video HERE.




Statement: "I have a University Degree." (Meaning at State-funded universities they only teach the Rotating Earth Theory, and won't teach the Motionless Earth truth, therefore it cannot be true and must be wrong.)
Response: That simply means that you were Brainwashed to follow many of the Corporate Centralized State's (the Beast System's) propaganda lies. A “Degree” is a Masonic concept: to be “Knighted” - ceremonially inducted to serve a feudal superior ("The Powers That Be”) - after completing service as page and squire. Besides the smartest and most well-educated people are those who are self-studied and those who were born with high Moral IQs and high Mind IQs (many of whom have university degrees and many that do not), not those "elect" who are merely experts in institutionalized schooling but not Champions of self-education. State education teaches a servile reverance for a "sacrosanct" State and cannot possibly be separated from political control.
Romans 1:18-22 - "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made [stationary Earth at exact center of small Cosmos, probably self-illuminating Moon, Stars that circle the small Cosmos each night] even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise [university degree], they became fools,"




Begin with Prayer



Prayer to Christ Jesus, the Intercessor and the Creator of the Universe, for Godly wisdom, discernment and understanding in the affairs of Biblical AND True Science MotionlessEarthism:


"Father God, You said if anyone lacks wisdom, let him ask of You, Who giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Therefore, I ask in faith, nothing wavering, to be filled with the knowledge of Your will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding. Today I incline my ear unto wisdom, and I apply my heart to understanding so that I might receive that which has been freely given unto me.

"In the name of Jesus, I receive skill and Godly wisdom and instruction. I discern and comprehend the words of understanding and insight. I receive instruction in wise dealing and the discipline of wise thoughtfulness, righteousness, justice, and integrity. Prudence, knowledge, discretion, and discernment are given to me. I increase in knowledge. As a person of understanding, I acquire skill and attain to sound counsels [so that I may be able to steer my course rightly].

"Wisdom will keep, defend, and protect me; I love her and she guards me. I prize Wisdom highly and exalt her; she will bring me to honor because I embrace her. She gives to my head a wreath of gracefulness; a crown of beauty and glory will she deliver to me. Length of days is in her right hand, and in her left hand are riches and honor." Germaine Copeland



Note: New, more accurate word coined to describe the truth of the non-rotating Earth: The False science theory of a rotating Earth is the keystone and the Achilles Heel of the entire Satan-inspired Kabbalic large universe deception. It is the number one assumption upon which the Pharisees have erected their knowledge-controlling deception of the Cosmos... Everywhere on this website that you read the word "Geocentrism" just replace it in your mind with MotionlessEarthism.


A Gravitational Field Different From That of Newton; by Neville T. Jones, PhD - HERE




"The planets provide both variety and predictability to the night skies, and act as celestial time pieces." 

Amazing and unique to Geocentrism is the FLOWER PATTERN of Mars, Jupiter and Saturn

by Steven N.T. Jones - HERE



The old and better name for science was natural philosophy.




What’s Wrong with Science?


- The major “theories” of modern science are incapable of proof, cannot be tested or supported by observation, and are not even rational.

- The scientific establishment is atheist [actually Satan is their god] to the core. Its agenda is to dethrone God, and its members will go to any and all lengths to deny Him.

- No matter how absurd, unprovable, or ludicrous a theory may be, scientists will always prefer it to belief in God.

- The atheists who dominate Big Science are nasty, foolish, petulant, and intellectually dishonest.



"There are four experiments which clearly point to a geocentric universe. Only the Michelson-Morley is ever referred to; the other three are never mentioned in any university anywhere in the world:


1. The Michelson-Morley experiment (no orbital motion of Earth about the Sun).

2. The Michelson-Gale experiment (no orbital motion of Earth about the Sun).

3. Airy's Experiment (absolute no motion of Earth).

4. The Sagnac experiment (no orbital motion of Earth about the Sun)."

Malcolm Bowden - More HERE



Other Experiments:

5. Trouton-Noble (no orbital motion of Earth about the Sun).

6. The experiments of Arago, who observed starlight through a slab of glass, (absolute no motion of Earth).

In addition, all physical experiments designed to demonstrate some alleged motion of the World

have consistently produced a null result. Neville T. Jones, PhD




“Einstein’s false Relativity hypothesis ‘rescued’ heliocentricity (rotating and orbiting Earth) from the findings of over 200 interferometer experiments which showed that the Earth was not moving.”

“Einstein’s hypothesis of Relativity is insignificant and childish.

Time is always constant.

Nobody proved that time is a ‘dimension’.

There is no ‘space-time’ just like there is no ‘length-weight’.” More HERE by Pawel Kolasa.



“The dominating principle of Christian truth is cosmological (i.e., the sovereignty of the triune God over the whole cosmos, in all its spheres and kingdoms, visible and invisible). The entire cosmos can be understood only in relation to God.” Charles Colson


Introduction to Geocentrism by Neville T. Jones, Ph.D.

"We feel no motion of the World on which we all live. Furthermore, no experiment in all physics has ever demonstrated that the World moves around the Sun, or even that it is the World rotating about an axis and not the heavens themselves. From the standpoint of our senses, therefore, it seems simply common sense to attribute the motion of the Sun, Moon, planets and stars to those objects themselves, rather than to some multi-component, contorted movement of the World. Certainly, to a good approximation, the stars appear to go around us as if they are each attached to the inner surface of a huge celestial sphere, which is itself rotating above our heads from east to west on a celestial north-south polar axis." Continued HERE





Malcolm Bowden audios:

Geocentricity - part one

Geocentricity - part two

Geocentricity - part three

Explanation using the Orrery - part four

Parallax and Redshift - part five




"So I told the sucker, it's just an illusion that the Earth's atmosphere is separate, unattached, stationary and has the physics properties of a Gas. In reality the atmosphere is rotating synchronously with, and its movement is caused by, the rotation of the solid Earth. The atmosphere can even carry along, on a calm day, a hovering 16 ton Super Stallion helicopter, and at the same time nearby, carry along a hovering Hot Air Balloon with the passengers on-board the basket feeling no 500 - 1000 mph winds ... and then have them both land in their original Earthbound vertical take-off spots."



(Photo credit - Danilo Pivato - Copyright - permission obtained)


*Left image (above): "The Earth is stationary due to the perfectly balanced totality of all the motive forces in the universe and because it is the absolute reference frame and that to which the rest of the universe was built/created around and affixed to. The Cosmos is attached to the Earth, not the Earth to the Cosmos." "Both the stationary Earth and the stationary satellites are electromagnetic phenomena with gravity playing a minor role, if any."


*Right image (above; image from Niall Kilkenny): The Sun's PATH, fixed or "set" within the rotating firmament, spiral-orbits the Earth north-south and clockwise from the Tropic of Cancer to the Tropic of Capricorn in six months and then "alters course laterally" (carried along by rotating stellatum or firmament) to spiral-orbit south-north and continues clockwise for the next six months (total of one tropical year). Seasons result from the yearly helical oscillation of the Sun's path around the non-tilted and stationary Earth.




Solar Analemma:

(position of the Sun, on a single piece of film, recorded at the same time each day throughout the year)


(Photo credit - Anthony Ayiomamitis - Copyright - Permission Obtained)


"What creates the Analemma in this spiral are the fluctuations in the Sun's velocity at different times in its spiral orbit. Towards July the Sun's spiral speed is slowing down, but the closer it gets to January the Sun's spiral speeds up, then, as the Sun spirals away from January it begins to slow down again."

Allen Daves 



"In the world, in which we live, some things that occur are hard to understand and even harder to believe. There is a force out there that is attempting to overtake us all; it is SATAN. There is another force out there that is protecting us from him; it is the HOLY SPIRIT ... It is a battle for souls. This battle is called Spiritual Warfare, and like it or not ...

YOU are right in the middle of it and YOUR soul is one that is being sought after."




"The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he has girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved."

Psalm 93



The Earth is NOT Moving !! ... Facts: (by Marshall Hall):


- All calculations for eclipses, the space program, navigation, satellite movements - anything that demands precision and accuracy - are based on a non-moving Earth. Boiled down, heliocentric math is the same as Geocentric [also called Geostatic] math.

- No experiment has shown the Earth to be moving (much less at 32 times rifle bullet speed) [ 66,600 mph = 100 mph x 666!!! ] in solar orbit and at 250 times RBS around a galaxy. One would think such speeds would flap one's collar a little even if the "science" establishment says no!)

- Multiple experiments have shown the Earth to be stationary.

- Revisionist history reveals the roles that Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Sagan et al have played in foisting this LIE on mankind.

- The logic against a moving Earth is overpowering.

- WORLD-CLASS astronomer Sir Fred Hoyle said take your pick between the two models.

- Copernicanism paved the way for Darwinism (which then spawned Marxism, Freudism, Einsteinism and Saganism.)

- Star speeds are not a problem when the thickness of the universe is seen to be what it really is, that is, LESS than half a light day thick (8 billion mile radius).

- NASA's space program is labelled "Origins Research" and costs taxpayers mega-bucks. Computerized telescopes are programmed to send back "synthesized images". The "image warper" permits "geometric transformations" while "origins technology... configures the multiple small mirrors..." in these telescopes. Talk about a con job!

- The Bible says [ 67 "sun is moving" Bible quotes HERE ] The Earth is NOT Moving and cannot be moved. What'll it be folks? False science as the source of absolute truth... or God's Word?


Order book The Earth is NOT Moving HERE (offered for sale on Amazon for $80 used,

but you can buy a brand new copy for $20).


Free Audio Sessions - four part series by Marshall Hall - includes:


* Six Assumptions... but No Science

* Phony Telescopes

* Phony Cameras

* False Redshift

* False Infrared

* Phony Math

* Phony Virtual Reality Technology

* Phony Star Distances

All HERE - (or go HERE and scroll down to "Online Radio Station.")




The Motionless Earth fact is the Most Exciting, the Fastest Growing and Most Significant Truth Movement on the Internet!


The Motionless Earth Cosmogony will thrive because it is True. Its adherents are multiplying, and are the Most Intelligent of Men and Women!





"To beg the question: to pass over or ignore a question by assuming it to be established or settled; to assume as proven the very thing one is trying to prove. Example - to pass over or ignore the question of 'Is the Earth moving?' by assuming it to be established or settled; to assume that the Earth is moving when trying to disprove that the Earth is NOT moving."


Response(s) by Allen Daves

1: "Excellent. Since there is no observation or experience that the Earth is moving without assuming that the Earth is indeed moving (begging the question) therefore the only logical course to begin from is a model of the Earth absent of any movement and then attempt to prove or demonstrate movement, if any. Of course all the experiments, without begging the question, would lead one to the conclusion that the Earth is in fact not in motion. It is only via the assumption of its movement, which was never demonstrated to begin with, that one can even begin to explain away the observations and experience that are consistent with the only logical positions to start from, namely that the Earth is without any demonstrable motion. Therefore to assume that the Earth does in fact move is to build upon a foundation of sand and to suggest that it is or must be moving because it could be in some theoretical or imaginary framework, and then to call it science, is not only a circular fallacy but is, well...... quite silly!"


2: The whole concept of larger objects going around smaller objects begs the question without knowledge of what and where the center of mass for all the objects in question (the universe) is in the first place. You must start with what you have not with what you imagine. To start with a model with no motion of the Earth is not a proof for or against Earth motion nor does it assume anything. It is the only logical position from which to begin the experimental and theoretical process necessary to ascertain any proof for or against. The model itself is not proof, it is only a premise or foundation for the discovery process. As stated many times one must logically begin with what you have not with what you do not have, and since proof for motion is the question, any model that assumes motion or interprets the data in terms of motion that is used to support or build upon a case for motion is a circular fallacy. Whereas taking observations and conducting experiments with no assumptions of motion is simply beginning with what you have. What you have does not include any argument or justification for incorporating that idea into ones interpretations of observations. To look out and see other objects in the heavens move does not tell you what is absolute motion, or what or whether or not you would and could feel/detect those motions if you were there...... and since you are not there...... think about that for a while.


3a: We woke up in a world where things appear to move around us. We had and have no sensation of movement itself. That is where this whole question of the Earth's movement must and did begin...... "everything moving around me." From that point a process of observation and experiment then proceeds to ascertain what is and what is not moving. Well, those experiments which were conducted to make that distinction did show that the Earth is indeed NOT moving. The observations of mass centered on the Earth also promote the Earth's centrality of that position as well. You cannot interpret those observations and experiments in light of a heliocentric framework because that is what those experiments and observations are all about. This is your circular fallacy...... Those who developed and conducted those experiments and observations were not assuming an Earth-centered universe, but those experiments showed just the opposite of what was expected...... (They invoked a circular fallacy when they "re-interpreted" the results, with exotic wishful theories, after performing them, to fit their assumptions about Earth's motions). An Earth not in motion is exactly what those experiments showed, and the only thing that those observations demonstrate, without invoking circular fallacies about the Earth's movement first. It amazes me that you cannot see just how ridiculous your argument is and the fact that the only way to even begin to interpret data as consistent with the heliocentric theory is to assume that heliocentricity is preferred. There has been no experiment conducted on Earth with regard to gravity or any other theory that demonstrates anything other than what the initial observations and experiments show. They do not show things moving around you without invoking the heliocentric circular fallacy first.


3b: Heliocentricity is not logically plausible based on what is available without assuming that what you do not have is real. Your position makes no sense without assuming that heliocentricity is preferred first...... which is what everything that led up to and including today's model of heliocentricity was developed to prove in the first place. The problem is that nothing ever did prove heliocentricity without assuming that heliocentricity was the preferred conclusion to begin with, which is what it is trying to prove! Why is it so hard for you guys to grasp your arguments utter ridiculousness? Until you have observations and experience for Earth's movement your position is as plausible as aliens and abductions...... thus we should build our lives around the "fact" that they are the most reasonable and plausible explanation for all unknown phenomena!? Your arguments and examples are in fact examples, not of heliocentricity's plausibility, but rather foolishness of the highest order. Demonstrate or concede but don't use Geocentrism's evidence for heliocentricity by begging the question that heliocentricity is preferred...... because until you have that evidence for heliocentricity all the evidence supports Geocentrism without assuming anything. Starting with the very first observation ever made namely the sky is moving around you but you have no sensation of movement. All subsequent observations and experiments have been consistent with no movement of the Earth and not one has shown itself to be for heliocentricity without assuming heliocentricity is preferred first, which is the question you beg and the circular fallacy you without fail, must invoke!


4a: If you are going to appeal to observation and experiment as the solid foundation of "reasoning the issue out" then you can't appeal to theory when observation and experiment do not support that position. Theories about the aether are irrelevant. What is observed and experimentally verified, as so far as it has been conducted in every case attempted, is that relative motion can be easily distinguished from absolute motion via the effects that motion has on light in every case ever observed or performed. There is no other logical conclusion based on observation and experiment that can be logically concluded without imagining and/or assuming some other construct first, without having observational or experimental support for such a thing. You keep invoking circular fallacies and attempting to justify them via your theories and "it could" but when someone points out that it could just as well mean something else you appeal to "observations". Which is it? If you bother to think about it for any length of time you will see that in either case, theory or observation, Geocentrism is the only position that has all the possible and logically sound arguments based on what is available/observed in the past and present. Whereas heliocentricity is built on what is not observed or experienced. As for illusions, that position only makes any sense whatsoever if you have a justification for "it's an illusion" otherwise this conversation itself could just be an illusion! To say that, "it could", therefore that is the most reasonable explanation is ridiculous as well as circular. The universe does not behave disorderly unless you assume that first - that is a fundamental difference between heliocentricity and Geocentrism. When we look out we can see some smaller objects orbiting larger objects but we do not see all smaller objects orbiting the larger objects. All assertions to that fact do assume that to be the case. However, I see the sun circling me, I do not see me circling the sun without assuming that is what is really going on first. As for experiments and observations here on Earth we can distinguish between motion and non-motion regardless of how many "frames" we attempt to create via optical gyroscopes. There is no experiment that demonstrates that there is such a thing as a local reference frame that can be isolated from any other reference frame. So what experiments you are attempting to put forward and what laws of gravity and motion you keep trying to appeal to, do not exist to prove your conclusion without assuming your conclusion is true first. The whole heliocentric position is built on a house of cards and what's worse - none of them rate any higher than a Joker.


4b: The disagreements that do exist between the various Geocentric scientists have absolutely no bearing on the fact that the only experience available to man - observational or experimental - are only consistent with Geocentrism and are not consistent with heliocentricity without assuming (begging the question) that the universe is heliocentric first...... that the universe is something other than what can be demonstrated from observation and experiment, if that's the case then they should have no problem with us Jesus folks, otherwise there is no observation or experiment demonstrating heliocentricity without assuming it is true first (begging the question). The heliocentrists position is not only logically untenable but has, by its own refusal to accept observation and experiment when it conflicts with its predetermined conclusion about the Earth's motion, has in effect created a "science" that can never prove anything - "ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" of anything. If imagination is the justification for heliocentricity then it is not "science". If observation and experiment are to be the benchmarks then there is no room for the heliocentric theory except in one's imagination!


5: I have and am pointing out that GC/GS (Geocentric/Geostationary) is the only logically deduced conclusion that one can make that can be demonstrated, because you cannot reach any other conclusion without imagining what cannot or has not been observed or experienced. Yes "theoretically" the sun or the Earth could be moving but only one of those theories/reasons (why things look they way they do) can be demonstrated as a logically deduced conclusion whereas the other cannot without invoking pure imagination first. If you go outside, look up and see something traverse from your left to your right (could be a bird or could be a plane) your first impulse is not, "Hey I am moving", without observation and experiment (O&E) that tells you that…… that would be foolish. Now, what is it that tells you that the sun is not doing the moving and orbiting without assuming and imagining that it is not first? Yes, it “could be true” that the sun is “standing still” and we are spinning, only giving the appearance of a rising sun, rather than the sun is doing exactly what it looks like it is doing, namely going around/orbiting me. But you cannot show a logically deductive path for such a conclusion even if it were true. Therefore you cannot claim that the theory that you are moving is the most plausible explanation for what you observe any more so than with a bird or a plane. What you seem to miss is that a theory and a logical deduction do not follow each other automatically. Feel free to theorize whatever you like but true science claims logical theories as the best ones - and rightly so. They just don't always employ the logical ones. As with you they sometimes prefer imagination over logical deduction. Fine, but don't call it reasonable or the most plausible; there is no logic in that reason nor can you even show it any more plausible without begging the questions, or else you can suppose there are aliens that live in my attic as the theory and reason for all my troubles…… Allen Daves 




Sun's Path Diagram simple (below), more complex HERE - Created by Allen Daves



NEP = North Ecliptic Pole, SEP = South Ecliptic Pole, NCP = North Celestial Pole,

SCP = South Celestial Pole HC = Heliocentrism, GC = Geocentrism/Geostatic, AC = Acentric





"Ossie, I see no moving Sun!! Where is the evidence of an orbiting Sun??"





Therefore, the seeker after the truth is not one who studies the writings of the ancients and, following his natural disposition, puts his trust in them, but rather the one who suspects his faith in them and questions what he gathers from them, the one who submits to argument and demonstration, and not to the sayings of a human being whose nature is fraught with all kinds of imperfection and deficiency. Thus the duty of the man who investigates the writings of scientists, if learning the truth is his goal, is to make himself an enemy of all that he reads, and, applying his mind to the core and margins of its content, attack it from every side. He should also suspect himself as he performs his critical examination of it, so that he may avoid falling into either prejudice or leniency.  Alhazen



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