So you don’t think TVP and TZM are a cult

•June 6, 2010 • 53 Comments

I have been reading and referencing Dr Robert J Lifton since I first started my blog, it is him I can thank for everything I learned about cults [dangerous/personality & financial].

His points on thought reform are what actually got me to totally re evaluate the venus project and its activist arm. I used this in my first ever blog and used it as justification as to why I had taken the name anticultist and why I was under the suspicion that TZM was and is becoming more and more cultish.

So to my amazement and happiness anonymous have used Dr Lifton in a recent set of videos they have made. I think those of you who doubt the similarities or question if it is a cult should watch them and consider the points.
While you may not agree I think you can at least acknowledge there are certainly a lot of similarities.

Here are Liftons thought reform points in total to read:

DR. ROBERT J. LIFTON’S CRITERIA FOR THOUGHT REFORM

THOUGHT REFORM: THE PSYCHOLOGY OF TOTALISM CHAPTER 22 (Chapel Hill, 1989) THE FUTURE OF IMMORTALITY CHAPTER 15 (New York 1987)

Any ideology — that is, any set of emotionally-charged convictions about men and his relationship to the natural or supernatural world — may be carried by its adherents in a totalistic direction. But this is most  likely to occur with those ideologies which are most sweeping in their content and most ambitious or  messianic in their claim, whether a religious or political organization. And where totalism exists, a religion, or a political movement becomes little more than an exclusive cult.

Here you will find a set of criteria, eight psychological themes against which any environment may be  judged. In combination, they create an atmosphere which may temporarily energize or exhilarate, but  which at the same time pose the gravest of human threats.

(BRIEF OUTLINE)

1. MILIEU CONTROL

the most basic feature is the control of human communication withinand environment if the control is extremely intense, it becomesinternalized control — an attempt to manage an individual’s inner communication control over all a person sees, hears, reads, writes(information control) creates conflicts in respect to individual autonomy groups express this in several ways: Group process, isolation from
other people, psychological pressure, geographical distance or unavailable transportation, sometimes physical pressure often a sequence of events, such as seminars, lectures, group encounters, which become increasingly intense and increasingly isolated, making it extremely difficult– both physically and psychologically–for one to leave. sets up a sense of antagonism with the outside world; it’s us against them
closely connected to the process of individual change (of personality)

2. MYSTICAL MANIPULATION (Planned spontaneity)

extensive personal manipulationseeks to promote specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such
a way that it appears to have arisen spontaneously from within theenvironment, while it actually has been orchestrated totalist leaders claim to be agents chosen by God, history, or some supernatural force, to carry out the mystical imperative the “principles” (God-centered or otherwise) can be put forcibly and claimed exclusively, so that the cult and its beliefs become the only true path to salvation (or  enlightenment) the individual then develops the psychology of the pawn, and participates actively in the manipulation of others the leader who becomes the center of the mystical manipulation (or the person in whose name it is done) can be sometimes more real than an abstract god and therefore attractive to cult members legitimizes the deception used to recruit new members and/or raise funds, and the deception used on the “outside world”

3. THE DEMAND FOR PURITY

the world becomes sharply divided into the pure and the impure, the absolutely good (the group/ideology) and the absolutely evil (everything outside the group) one must continually change or conform to the group “norm” tendencies towards guilt and shame are used as emotional levers for
the group’s controlling and manipulative influences once a person has experienced the totalist polarization of good/evil (black/white thinking), he has great difficulty in regaining a more balanced inner sensitivity to the complexities of human morality the radical separation of pure/impure is both within the environment (the group) and the individual ties in with the process of confession — one must confess when one is not conforming

4. CONFESSION

cultic confession is carried beyond its ordinary religious, legal and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself sessions in which one confesses to one’s sin are accompanied by patterns of criticism and self-criticism, generally transpiring within small groups with an active and dynamic thrust toward personal change is an act of symbolic self-surrender makes it virtually impossible to attain a reasonable balance between worth and humility a young person confessing to various sins of pre-cultic existence can both believe in those sins and be covering over other ideas and feelings that s/he is either unaware of or reluctant to discuss often a person will confess to lesser sins while holding on to other secrets (often criticisms/questions/doubts about the group/leaders that may cause them not to advance to a leadership position) “the more I accuse myself, the more I have a right to judge you”

5. SACRED SCIENCE

the totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic doctrine or ideology, holding it as an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence questioning or criticizing those basic assumptions is prohibited a reverence is demanded for the ideology/doctrine, the originators of the ideology/doctrine, the present bearers of the ideology/doctrine offers considerable security to young people because it greatly simplifies the world and answers a contemporary need to combine a sacred set of dogmatic principles with a claim to a science embodying the truth about human behavior and human psychology

6. LOADING THE LANGUAGE

the language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating cliche (thought-stoppers) repetitiously centered on all-encompassing jargon “the language of non-thought” words are given new meanings — the outside world does not use the words or phrases in the same way — it becomes a “group” word or phrase

7. DOCTRINE OVER PERSON

every issue in one’s life can be reduced to a single set of principles that have an inner coherence to the point that one can claim the experience of truth and feel it the pattern of doctrine over person occurs when there is a conflict between what one feels oneself experiencing and what the doctrine or ideology says one should experience if one questions the beliefs of the group or the leaders of the group, one is made to feel that there is something inherently wrong with them to even question — it is always “turned around” on them and the questioner/criticizer is questioned rather than the questions answered directly the underlying assumption is that doctrine/ideology is ultimately more valid, true and real than any aspect of actual human character or human experience and one must subject one’s experience to that “truth” the experience of contradiction can be immediately associated with guilt one is made to feel that doubts are reflections of one’s own evil when doubt arises, conflicts become intense

8. DISPENSING OF EXISTENCE

since the group has an absolute or totalist vision of truth, those who are not in the group are bound up in evil, are not enlightened, are not saved, and do not have the right to exist “being verses nothingness” impediments to legitimate being must be pushed away or destroyed one outside the group may always receive their right of existence by joining the group fear manipulation — if one leaves this group, one leaves God or loses their transformation, for something bad will happen to them the group is the “elite”, outsiders are “of the world”, “evil”, “unenlightened”, etc.

http://www.ex-cult.org/General/lifton-criteria

TVP ex 1970-1980′s member speaks

•April 14, 2010 • 46 Comments

I have compiled all these comments made by Euripide Sneed from the Earth 2 blog, where they appeared here and gave us an insight into what it was like being a member during the 1970′s-1980′s, this is for ease of reading. More comments and information may very well arrive, and be added should they feel the inclination.

Welcome to the club. Literally hundreds of people gave their blood, sweat and tears, since the 1960’s, to help make Fresco’s dream possible. Once these followers are parted with their money, their services are no longer required, and they are dumped, and he leaves town. Marxism (by any other name)cannot tolerate spiritual beliefs, because you need to break a few eggs to make an Omelette. Just ask Pol Pot or Fidel Castro. Ask Fresco where the money came from to purchase the Venus Property in the first place. And what happened to the investors who never got their money back. Fresco’s favorite line is “The Venus project IS NOT a DEMOCRACY”. It’s his way or the highway. Imagine if he was in a position of power where he could “really” do some damage! It’s great being an avowed Atheist, morality is “relative” regardless of who is hurt in the process. The rules of morality are made up as you go along. That being said, his reading list is still well worth looking at, artistic drawings have their limitations without foundational information.

In reference to your question, I don’t want to elaborate to the point that it sounds like I want to bash Fresco. Because, in fact, there are many worse people in this world. And, he lives a life of frugalness, having survived the depression. So, those of us who invested in his projects do not have the interest in ever taking him to court, because he has been and always will be a “grandfather” figure to us. That being said, “fool me twice, shame on ME”. He doesn’t solicit money from people to buy fancy cars (as do some religious leaders), almost ALL the money he receives goes back into his art work, and toy models. So, under the circumstances, I gave him a “pass” for his actions, a long time ago, and in fact learned a lot from his various lectures. I learned to think straight, and corrected many of my metaphysical “assumptions” about the universe. But, like many eccentric “creative types”, he has a sort of tunnel vision when it comes to remembering who his friends and supporters are. You’re IN today, OUT tomorrow!

In the 1970s he was having regular membership meetings at his home in Miami. With a weekly group of maybe 10 to 12 followers. Up until then, everything was only on paper, with “nothing” to show the rest of the “non-believing” world. So, the group (called Sociocyberneering at the time) signed an agreement to purchase some land (near Miami where they all lived) and they agreed to make regular monthly payments until the land was paid off. It would take several years to complete the payoff. The group had the vision to “live the dream” in their own little dome community. The community was to be self-sustaining with agriculture and other manufacturing products Fresco had designs for. They even donated funds for some small dome molds, which could be used for acquiring government grants. The group made regular payments, many of them making only minimum wage (most of members were low income, well meaning do-gooders). Whatever it took to make the monthly payments was done, even if it meant skipping a few meals a week. The goal was to show the world “what is possible with futuristic science on your side”.

One day, without discussion, the land that was purchased was sold. A new “legal entity” was created in the middle of nowhere (Venus), so that the investors would not be able to live there and commute to work at the same time. The new entity was called the “Venus Project”. The proceeds from the sold land was “funneled” into this new entity. The original investors in Sociocyberneering would have no “standing” or voting rights in the new entity. There was no other reason to change legal entities except to protect the funds from those who had built up the fund. If the goal was just to locate a nicer neighborhood, the Sociocyberneering entity could have continued to have control and voting rights of the new land. But, not so if you “dissolve” (under the attorney’s advice) the first entity, and create a second entity. Those members who were upset about this surprise move were assured that they were still welcome to “visit” the new entity and new land “anytime” they wanted to. But, they would have NO voting privileges as to how the money would be spent with the new entity. In the beginning, the 2 hour drive from Miami was tolerated, just to “visit” the new property. But, in the end, most of the investors cut their losses, and stopped contributing further, and said goodbye to any money they had deposited. The bottom line is that we are talking about events that happened over 30 years ago. Some of the members of the time are no longer alive. Most have all lost contact with each other. But, it is safe to say, in spite of all the financial disappointment that happened, most if not all the former members would like to see Fresco succeed. BUT, they prefer to admire him from “afar”, in the same way you can watch and enjoy a “Kung Fu” demonstration on stage, without having to jump on stage in the middle of all the “Kung-Pow” and get kicked by a “well meaning” performer. I would recommend anyone who has not heard any of his lectures to do so. He is one of the best of what he does, namely, explaining “systems approach” methodology to those students who never heard of the phrase. And also he helps people understand “TEC” (total enclosure) systems, as found on cruise ships, and applied to small futuristic communities. I’m sorry I have no other specific details about what happened 30 years ago. I am a strong believer that people should “experience him” directly, on their own terms, and determine yourself what he is or “is not” in terms of his personal behavior. I was particularly moved by your “experience” at the beginning of this blog, and how your well meaning words just “bounced off” him. But, to be honest, if I were to meet Einstein in person, I can’t guarantee that he would be any easier to deal with on a “human” level. “Uncommon people” many times cannot relate to us “common people”, and maybe it has always been that way…..


As far as Venus Project is concerned, there is no voting membership that I know of. Just Jacque. That was the main advantage of dissolving Sociocyberneering, no more “votes” to contend with.

In reference to your other point about forgiveness, I must confess that I WAS distressed while it was all happening, and it DID take several years to cool down. The same is true for the other members. It is “not” his goal to bite the hand that feeds him, it just happens with him “naturally” out of habit. He is focused on the goal, and not the intricacies of “give and take” which is all a part of working with a team. He works best when he is alone, period. He just wants someone to hand him a billion dollars and “shut up”, and not ask any questions. Consequently, none of the multiple millionaires who were introduced to him in the past, by some of his supporters, were interested or enticed to “buy in” to an “offer/relationship” like that. It’s almost funny that he seems “surprised” that no one in a position of responsibility wants to just “dump” a bag of money on his lap, with no questions asked. We try to explain to him that this only happens in the movies, but he is never amused by this observation. Anyway, keep up the good work, and I will enjoy reading your updates in the future…

There never was any classroom. People sat on a couch in his living room at the peak of the membership in Miami. Over half the pictures in the video, including classrooms, is “stock video” that the film maker took from some video library. The people you list were all volunteers who tried to contribute to his cause at one time or another. They come and go like a revolving door. They come in “excited” and “inspired”, and leave “despondent”, knowing that the organization is about teaching, but not necessarily about “team work” and “doing”. It has always been a one man show, and always will be. I compare it with “grade school”. It’s a “crucial” experience towards teaching us the 3 “R”s, it prepares us for the real world or college, but the course is fixed and limited. You will never learn Calculus, Chemistry or Physics there. It’s a nice place to visit, “but I wouldn’t want to live there” as the old saying goes. But, I must stress that it is up to the individual, to decide when they have had enough. Some people have had enough after 1 lecture, others continued to learn for several years before leaving. 90% of the lecture content has not changed since the 1950’s. And that’s OK. That’s what grade school is about. Should we stop teaching basic math in grade school simply because it was taught 100 years ago? No, children still need to learn 1+1 before they move on to Calculus. We can’t start children on Calculus (at least, not with current technology). We need Fresco to pull us out of the “mental mud” that society exposes us to as children, in that he teaches us to think more clearly, with our “brains full of mush”. BUT, then that moment must come, and only “you” will know when that time “is”, and you are told “time for you to leave” (either by Fresco, or your inner voice)….

for many adult minds, there is no lightning bolt listening to Fresco. Fresco’s entire “lecture circuit” is a combination of several influences in his life: The (ancient) movie “The shape of things to come” (Wells), The Technocracy Movement, The works of BF Skinner, The works of Buckminister Fuller (modified by Monolithic Dome concepts), and books such as Tyranny of Words, The Natural History of Nonsense, Science & Sanity, Mechanistic Conception of Life, Pavlov, Prefabrication theory using space age plastics, and finally “Engineers & Price System” (Veblin). There are 100 more books, but these are the core concepts of his lecture circuit. Many students graduating high school today or in College will probably “never” read most of these books in their life time. And they probably have no desire to. So, a lecture from Fresco puts all these concepts together in just a few hours. But, I agree, it is best to read the books directly if you have the time.

The property near Miami was was purchased for approximately $16,000, which was a lot of money in the 70’s, when people were trying to live on minimum wage. I don’t know how much it was sold for, since it was still undeveloped. Probably approximately the same price. The property in Venus was approximately $40K, because it was more acreage. I believe that the property in Venus is under his own name so that there is no distribution requirement if he sells the property. When he sold his home in Miami for over $100K (or maybe $150K?), there was enough money to pay for the Venus property, with the help of the Sociocyberneering funds. So, he did put up a few buildings on the Venus property which would serve as his new home. But, the value of all the buildings “combined” would be under $100K because they are sort of made of metal and gunnite, as opposed to more expensive materials like bricks or lumber. So, the asking price of the land is a little high compared to values of the surrounding acreage. Yes, I had read someplace that some politicians in Ecuador invited them to live there at their own expense, and maybe help with tourism. It is possible they may have even offered him a grant to build some safer housing that could survive disasters of weather or earth quakes. But, I’ve been out of the loop for many decades.

The housing prices in Miami have always been higher than the “Florida” average. There is a lot of unused land in Florida. A chart of “Miami” that only goes back 20 years gives a closer approximation, as follows: http://mysite.verizon.net/vodkajim/housingbubble/miami.html

The home was actually a 2 bedroom, in a borderline neighborhood. It needs to be understood that he never “made it big” doing what he does. He mostly was, and is, unemployed. His income from giving lectures at his home was only $10-$20 per lecture, 2 or 3 times a week. Roxanne, being an unemployed art major, helped a little with the rent. But, no, I don’t envy his current financial status. This recent “lecture circuit” is probably more lucrative than anything he has done before. But, I have NO idea what his going rate is these days to be a “guest speaker”, plus per diem? But, it definitely helps to pay the bills, compared to what he was making doing “odd jobs”. Now, if he actually gets $700K for that land, I will change my opinion about him being poor. That would make a nice nest egg. But, I think the actual value might be closer to $200K-$300K, if they can get that much.

Id say that they are doing OK, since the land is already paid for with no mortgage.

It was very common to bring a tape recorder to the lectures. Sometimes 1 person would bring one. Other times several people would bring one. Admission varied between $1 per lecture session to $3 per lecture session depending on what year it was. In the 70’s it was $1 per session, in the 80’s it was $2-$3 per session. It was affordable to most people, and if they couldn’t afford it, they could attend any way for free. Part of the fun was just meeting some of the other attendees after the session, and going to a restaurant for a snack. I haven’t heard the quality of the sound, but normally the microphone was only a few feet away, since it was in a small living room (informal). If the price is high, you may be able to get a used copy on eBay for a few dollars. The lectures are well worth listening to if you never heard them. Especially if you don’t want to read the hundreds of books that some of the information is extracted from. The problems came when we started to invest in the “futuristic commune”, living like Captain Kirk, with beds that make themselves, and robots that would plant the crops, harvest the crops, and using only organic pest control and fertilizers. In those days organic foods were expensive, so it would be great to get it at a low cost through automation. Star Trek was big in those days, and most of us would pay anything to live that life style immediately, rather than wait 100 years when the rest of the society would have it. But, it wasn’t meant to be, as you know….

Some of my statements were tongue in cheek. I definitely wasn’t there in the beginning. Just mid-seventies forward. He began many of his public lectures in the 60’s. I’m not really worried about his return to public speaking. I believe it is a temporary thing. Eventually, things will gradually begin to implode as the lecture audience begins to thin out. The cult following will probably continue to market his materials even after he retires. For example, his first book “Looking Forward” now sells from $200-$400 each. I remember I had 10 or 20 copies, years ago that were $6 each. But, they got lost over the years…

Anyway, part of being a fanatic is to NOT listen to reason, to get angry with friends and family who are trying to warn you that something is wrong with this guy.  But, like “religion”, when you fill one “crutch” (religion) with another crutch (promises for tomorrow), in the end, you are still with a “crutch”.  You defend your crutch “to the death” (symbolically), imperfections and all.

Then when you finally find your pockets empty, and the “crutch”, cheating on his first girlfriend, with the second girlfriend (Roxanne), the light goes on that you are dealing with “two” people. One “on stage”, one “off stage”.  But, in fairness, isn’t that true for all “performers”? It’s part of the “gig” you are trying to “sell” for your “bread and butter”.

While you are looking at the left hand, the right hand will getcha. Just follow the money…. Ciao…

The Venus Project is not just non-profit?

•January 18, 2010 • 151 Comments

Zeitgeist members are generally aware that the Venus Project operates under a non-profit 501c titled ‘Future by design’, but they are blind to the fact that it is a for-profit organization as well.

http://www.manta.com/coms2/dnbcompany_hxlxws

“Venus Project Inc is a private company located in Venus, FL.  Current estimates show this company has annual revenue of $120,000 and employs a staff of approximately 2.”

The Venus Project, Inc. also currently operates under the name “Global Cybervisions” and was actually established in February, 1995.
Reference:

http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Venus/the-venus-project-inc-6481878.aspx

Donations to the Venus Project via their website go to their non-profit sector, Future by Design, which had revenues of approximately $28,000 in 2008.  Other revenues go to the for-profit sector (Venus Project, Inc./Global Cybervisions), which is not listed anywhere on their website.

The fact that the Venus Project is secretly operating under three names is dubious, since Zeitgeist members are currently laboring for the Venus Project under the impression that there is no profit motive involved.


Thanks to David Szemerda for pointing out elements of this matter.

Zeitgeisters believe they are the smartest people alive

•August 4, 2011 • 48 Comments

I have noticed a lot of arrogance in their discussions on their forums, in their comments on youtube and facebook, even on blogs.

According to their incredibly self important belief in themselves, only the smartest people understand zeitgeist and the Resource Based Economy.

I got a few things to say about that, I understand it and completely disagree with it, so perhaps that makes me even smarter than the zeitards.
Or maybe those who do understand it and choose not to follow it blindly or talk about it are the smartest ?
Or maybe those who have never heard of it but do things for humanity that are actually useful and important are smarter ?
Or maybe people who don’t spam blogs, youtube videos and peoples facebook posts with their self righteous opinions about how fucking smart they are are smarter ?

Just saying, now fuck off.

Barbara Streisand effect – VTV fraudulantly flags videos

•April 27, 2011 • 1 Comment

Recently I saw a video on the anonymous youtube channels, it was also posted on James Kushes blog and Mario Bro blog through them. Anyway VTV managed to file a fake DMCA to get it removed, then those anonymous kids put it back up, so VTV went and did again.

The short of the video is this:

VTV was stating he had evidence that a prominent member of the venus project design team was whispering into Jacques and Roxannes ear and caused the split between TZM and TVP, he did this in teamspeak with Thunder and a few other members present, this was recorded and put into the video. Then a few days he interviewed Roxanne Meadows on his podcast and she defended this member and said he had nothing to do with it, VTV then said that TZM members should stop spreading hysteria and talking about this matter as if they knew it to be true, when it wasnt.

So he basically lied about having evidence, and lied about him being involved in the initial rumour mill and witch hunt for this person.

Luckily I have a copy of the video I downloaded from the anonymous channel if you want a copy to check out here it is available to download:

http://www.sendspace.com/file/7q4a4v

Also if you want to host it on your youtube channels or put it online other places feel free.

I have downloaded a lot of the anonymous videos from their channels, as well as been sent download links to my email from them, due to them getting censorship attacks and shit from TZM/TVP cult members. If anyone wants access to them just shout I will get you a link for them.

Also the video has been mirrored by other people on youtube, Anonymous have publicly stated that those of you out there who feel these so called leaders of the cult are putting themselves beyond reproach, and using false censorship tactics to hide their errors and lies should likewise promote their information and mass produce, mirror and copy their files everywhere.

This is all part of VTV’s plan to take over TZM and backstab other members who get positions of power he wanted.

Anyone who wishes to file a counter claim via youtube against this fat shithead go for it through this form here:

http://www.google.com/support/youtube/bin/request.py?hl=en-GB&contact_type=copyright_counternotice

It asks for your account details and private data, which is likely why a lot of people do not file counter claims, as it reveals their information to the person filing the DMCA.

Where is waldo ? I mean Peter Joseph Merola

•April 27, 2011 • 8 Comments

WHERE IS PETER JOSEPH..who is running the cult now? They are fighting over money, they need a new donation scheme and leader to run it.

Roxanne Meadows says scientists can not understand their hidden technology – Anonymous video

•April 21, 2011 • 3 Comments

Yup as we all thought ourselves, she just makes shit up to keep people interested in her and Jacques stories, she has nothing to ever offer up and will keep dangling the carrot in front of anyone stupid enough to believe her.

Zeitgeist get the Earth 2.0 Treatment – Anonymous video

•April 21, 2011 • 1 Comment

Also see the blog I made about the Earth 2.0 nonsense when it all happened.

http://anticultist.wordpress.com/2010/04/08/earth-2-movie-venus-proect-fails-and-reators-cut-fresco-loose/

Anonymous claims Roxanne Meadows is a gamblers nightmare

•April 19, 2011 • 21 Comments

This woman is a sure loser in the world of gambling, she wants to take risks no one with a bit of common sense would be willing to do. This of course is because she is gambling with other peoples money and not her own, she has nothing to lose from the risk, her home and her land or her money are not tied up in the project so no matter what its all a profit to her. She could justify spending 5 pence on a movie and keep the rest of the money for her handbag and shoe collection when Jacque dies.

She could also never make the movie and keep the whole thing.

She could also spend it all on a god awful movie about people living in a cult techno village in some dreamt up future in her and Jacques little pea heads. The return on this movie will no doubt be fucking dismal, the only people who will appreciate it will be hippies, potheads and zeitards, the rest of us with common sense will turn it off after downloading it on piratebay [yes I know its closed haha], and have a billion questions that zeitards, venus cult members and  cult leaders can not answer.

So in short Roxanne Meadows is wanting your money to gamble on something she has no idea about making, promoting, or is even certain what it is she needs to do. All she knows is she needs your multi million dollar finance to make her happy, and she sure as hell wont make you happy when the movie either:

A:  FLOPS

B:  NEVER COMES TO FRUITION

C: SHE STEALS YOUR CASH AND YOU NEVER SEE A PENNY RETURNED

D: SHE DECIDES TO MAKE A CHEAPER MOVIE THAT IS SHIT AND YOU GET NO SAY IN HER KEEPING THE REMAINDER MILLIONS.

E: SHE SHOWS NO TRANSPARENCY IN THE SPENDING SO YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS FREE AND WHAT IS PAID FOR

Dupes will always be dupes though, so go ahead and give her all your money, be the biggest zeitard cult member there is, and once again watch the rest of the critics laugh their asses off at you and TVP later down the line like we are now about this whole TZM/TVP split we all predicted years ago. Everything we have said in the past has been proven right, this matter here is probably another one that will show to be a reality.

Zing!!!!

Enjoy the movie:

TVP steals the TZM business model for their own website & solicits TZM members

•April 19, 2011 • 13 Comments

Not content with calling TZM members and leaders clueless about TVP, not content with soliciting the very same clueless TZM members to join TVP and work for free, but TVP also have the audacity to steal TZM business model for their own website.

The nerve and ignorance of Roxanne Meadows  & Jacque Fresco knows no bounds ! They truly are decieptful con artists stealing other peoples efforts, work and money only to profit themselves.


http://www.thevenusproject.com/en/get-involved/global-activism-teams

 
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