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[–]Sullane 35 points36 points ago

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I'll be serious here. This thread is making sex seem very scary to me (Male who never did it before). So many guys here are posting about how they raped a girl involuntarily because they misread signals... could it be possible I may make the same mistake?

[–]petedacook 924 points925 points ago

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My brother is serving time for sexual assault on his under age daughters.

He was drinking a half gallon + of liquor a day, taking vicodin and was out of his mind when he did it. He got drunk and ended up touching his daughters in appropriately on more thasn one occassion. he didn't have intercourse with them, just touched them.

I can tell you first hand he has no remorse. He blames his ex-wife and his daughters for "doing this to him." He will get out in 2015 and he is totally convinced he is a victim.

[–]gayfatnerd 565 points566 points ago

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When my father got out, he was fully convinced he would win my mother back and we would "be a family again with everything back to normal". His whole side of the family thinks my sister and I are liars.

[–]petedacook 568 points569 points ago

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That is the case with my brother. Our side of the family thinks he is innocent and his ex-wife and daughters are evil liars.

I am the black sheep. I blame my brother for his crimes. He was supposed to protect his daughters from stuff like this, not commit sexual atrocities on them.

[–]gb003k 376 points377 points ago

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I refuse to talk to my grandfather but my mother won't let me tell him or anyone else in the family why(he abused her not me).

My entire extended family thinks I am a terrible grandson, nephew, and cousin as I refuse to attend weddings (other than my sisters) when he's there or family vacations.

I honestly hope he dies soon so that I could see the rest of my family. He refuses to apologize for what he did.

My mother had to tell my uncles who had daughters about him because he and my grandmother refused and my sister and I are the only grandchildren that know. She decided to tell us because my grandparents refused to visit after she gave them the ultimatum to tell my uncles with daughters or she would and she didn't want us to think they decided not to visit because they didn't like us.
He thought my mom didn't need to tell her brothers because even though he hadn't gotten counseling he had asked God for forgiveness and healing and therefore was fine and wouldn't do it again.

My mom has two sister's one of which has attempted suicide related to the abuse.

This type of abuse effects multiple generations. Never forgive, never forget, and never allow people you love to be put in harms way to protect the family secret.

TL;DR: Sexual abusing your children is a multi-generation crime.

[–]dskjfa897r 209 points210 points ago

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My grandfather sexually abused my mom, uncles and aunts. Apparently they all forgave him, though, because we visited all the time when I was growing up.

Now my mom is convinced he abused me too. I don't think he did. I have no bad memory or strange feelings about him, besides finding out he was a sick, sick man. Maybe, though, she shouldn't have left me alone in my grandparent's care if she was so worried about me. They would babysit for me once awhile, like when my parents would go on vacation.

I don't understand a person who'd put their babies in the care of a pedophile, especially one that abused them previously.

She got angry with me once and said if I didn't admit to it happening and he was still doing it to my younger cousins, it would be my fault for not telling.

Sorry my reply isn't that relevant, in a way it's comforting to see someone else who has a similar problem running through their family. No one in my life knows this about me so it's nice to get to talk about it.

[–]limperatrice 33 points34 points ago

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She may be trying to externalize her trauma by believing it also happened to you. Same thing with laying guilt on your conscience for not telling in order to prevent it from happening to your cousins - that's about her own guilt. Most people have trouble holding a mirror to themselves so, it's easier to cope with their feelings by projecting them onto others. Don't let her do that to you.

[–]neverknowme 116 points117 points ago

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My step father just turned himself over to police for raping my then 22 yr old cousin (now 23). He is also going to be charged with the repeated rape of my other cousin who suffered repeatedly between the ages of 8-11(she will soon be 14]. He also molested me between the ages of 8 and 11, I'm now 30.

I won't be able to press charges but i will testify for my youngest cousin. I hope he goes away forever or at last gets killed in prison. I do feel bad for some people in this thread but people like my step father need to rot in hell and become big bob's prison twink.

Edit-got wrapped up in my venting... The other day my mom, my aunt, my cousin and i told my grandpa what happened, we couldn't before because wee couldn't risk my step dad finding out about the new charges.

My mom and aunt confess my uncle tried to rape them. My grandpa broke down crying and told us that he tried to touch his sister once back in the 40s. His mother threatened to cut his hands. He's hated himself ever since. I can't find it in me to hate him.

[–]UrNotTheBossOfMe 55 points56 points ago

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It amazes me how predators think that just touching is harmless. That 'rape' is way worse. While technically rape is a violation of the body resulting in physical pain, it's also emotional scaring. Which can be more detrimental and long term.

[–]ghalfrunt 294 points295 points ago

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Not me but I, and several close friends, have done work with sexual offenders on all levels. Adults and youths in straight up treatment (individuals and group), those in court mandated treatment, and those who will never be in public again.

It all relies on the meaning that they give to the event and their own intelligence/emotional maturity. There are instances where the incident was a grey area but the vast majority of the people we all worked with there was no question (numerous attacks, significant age differences, clear evidence). Most didn't understand how someone else would not see their actions as justified. Those who were really low intelligence didn't understand the charges to begin with. The really young offenders had many other problems surrounding their lives and lash out instead of exposing their beliefs about the assaults to others or even themselves.

The really intelligent ones with more resources go to great lengths to justify their actions ("they wanted it" "I wasn't really hurting anyone" "I'm not as bad as that other guy" "I couldn't control it"). Generally with them you would see deep seeded shame about the assaults, their history, their thoughts. This shame is often covered up by denial, defensiveness and anything else their mind can come up with to protect themselves.

[–]nikniuq 59 points60 points ago

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The only case I have been personally involved in the perpetrator was a very intelligent man who raped his own daughters for years - the youngest was 2 years old when it started.

I truly believe there is something wrong in his head, he has no concept of how anyone could be upset at him over it or that he did anything wrong. I think "I did them a service by educating them" about sums up his perspective.

Intelligent but completely without empathy or morals was my perception of him.

[–]ghalfrunt 38 points39 points ago

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This was perhaps the most common. The internal monologue can be so delusional. You hear similar statements when working with people who have an addiction. The rationalization that's not tied in to reality. They are obviously much different on many other levels but the rationalization is similar and I think it's a very primitive and delusional defense against shame.

[–]drierase 356 points357 points ago

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Answering this in a slightly inverted way - I was raped twice by my mother. Subsequently, years later, we've talked about it and this was her perspective:

She didn't believe she tried anything inappropriate **. She thought I was confused and too young to understand. She apologized profusely and understood that I might hate her and continue to "see it my way". This left me with very mixed feelings that never we're really resolved.

** Backstory: The events took place when she was drunk and on depression meds - clearly out of her mind. I was about 14 or so and had been helping her through her depression/suicidal behavior for several years.

At some point it seemed like my continued interventions we're becoming aggravating to her and she took to devising 'punishments' that would result in my wishing her dead. Perhaps as a mechanism of permission for her wanting to die. After various forms of abuse - being beaten with a hammer, 2x4's broken over my back, repeated punches to the face, forced to stand naked while she held a butchers knife under my penis threatening to cut it off, waking up to being covered in garbage and feces, etc - she took it to the next level.

One night she told me to lay down next to her while she relaxed. she then grabbed at my penis and said I had to "be a man for her" or she'd kill herself that night. To my shame, I believed her, and did what I thought had to be done. I didn't know how to as I was a virgin, and couldn't actually make it work. She ended up just "cuddling" and touching me (she didn't make me cum, but it did get erect from the stimulation to my absolute horror) for a few hours and then passed out. She tried it again a week later with the same results.

Shortly thereafter, She attempted suicide again. I intervened as I always had (wrestled the knife from her hand, then later tackled and pinned her down, preventing her from running into traffic).

She eventually responded to psychiatric help and recovered. However, after those events we could never be close and she ended up never coming home, just moved out and left me on my own once she was released from the hospital.

[–]multo 183 points184 points ago

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you must read "A Child Called It". My mother was a violent alcoholic who dated pedophiles. After hearing my stories, one of my therapists recommend i read that book. I think you will find it a comfort - your mother sounds like she had Narcissistic Personality Disorder (as does mine), and they do all kinds of really sick shit, including making one or their only child a scapegoat.

My mother too would cry about dying, and would drink herself to blackouts and physical illness. She almost broke my nose when i was little, and told me to "clean my fucking mess up" afterward, with blood on the floor and walls. it was not an unusual scene. on top of this, coming forward to my older brother, who is six years senior, and was in law school, resulted in nothing, as my mother didn't want anyone poking around in our family business - culpability and responsibility avoidance. if one crime - my uncle molesting me - was exposed, the whole house of insanity would come crumbling down.

now, after the Sandusky case, and finding out there is NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS in Canada on child abuse, (my brother the lawyer lied to me about that), i am fighting for justice. its going to take a long time, but i urge any survivor to do this, if they are able. it has taken a lot more out of me than expected - i fell back into the hole of depression, self harm and fog of pain (fog of pain is different that depression - you can function depressed, but when i'm in a fog of pain, all i can do is cry and vent). i am not rushing into it, but i will be damned if i will let these people get away with violating my human rights.

the crux of this all is human rights - you, the victim, are not seen as an equal human being with equal rights to your self and safety. you are first violated as a victim, a target, and then further violated with the denial of your abuse. you are gaslighted into believing you deserved it or it never happened. you are minimized, your abuser has entire families pulling for rationalization of his actions. you are pushed out if you talk too much, if you make a fuss, if you don't go along to get along.

that shit has got to end. it really does.

i'm chronicling my journey as a survivor fighting for justice here: http://mattvoteno.tumblr.com/ and i've posted some of the most amazing quotes from this thread. people, keep posting - it helps survivors feel like they are not alone, they are not crazy and they are not screaming into the void unheard.

and predators, know this - you not only steal that moment from a victim, you steal from them for ever, for its an unceasing echo that flavors everything in your life, good and bad, forevermore. you can't escape it. i have had over 10 years of therapy and i'm pretty good, pretty happy, but it never goes away. its a shark, lurking beneath the surface, to fuck up things just when you feel safe. you are more than rapists, molesters, pedophiles, etc. - you are time thieves, destroyers of joy, black ghosts of misery that lurk over us and follow us. and we fucking hate you.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]CryptidKeeper 77 points78 points ago

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god, what a fucked up individual. I hope you're dealing with this well.

[–]drierase 123 points124 points ago

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Not that many people ever hear this story, but the few who do are usually surprised. There's nothing in my life that would suggest I had this kind of ongoing trauma for years.

By most peoples standards I've succeeded. Great family ( that's healthy loving and supporting) Great career, Health, no debt, living in arguably one of the nicest areas in the US, with a great balance of creative and active hobbies. And I've managed to salvage the relationship (albeit at a distance) with my mother and forgiven whats in the past.

I try like hell to live by the adage: You can't control what happens around you or to you, but you can control what you do about it. I decided to have the best life I could :)

[–]pointlessbeats 13 points14 points ago

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I really think you have a career as a motivational speaker. Obviously this would suck to talk about, but your experience and the way you dealt with it is incredibly inspirational.

[–]11jeckley 657 points658 points ago

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According to the guy who raped me, he said that because I agreed to be his girlfriend, that was me giving him unspoken consent to anything physical he wanted. He also said that if I really didn't want to have sex, I could've "Tried harder to force him off and get away".

[–]janellems 228 points229 points ago

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The Guy I lostmy virginity to basically thought that was qualification for taking it any time he wanted....when we broke up because he was cheating on me, he came over and brought my stuff over and asked if we could have sex one more time and I said no,he started crying and begging and said hed leave me alone forever if I just let him....so since I thought that was a good trade I said okay until it hurt me and Iasked him to stop......he didn't, finished and left.....I felt disgusting. Two years later I'm at a party and end up blacking out with alcohol poisoning (I'm a tiny girl and drank too much too quickly...) well, he's there and decides to rape me while I'm passed out....I wake up to him pulling out so I grabbed a box cutter that was on the table beside me and cut his arm. I hate that Guy. I hate people who take things without asking :(

[–]pepsi123456 84 points85 points ago

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Your ex and mine are very similar. Only when we broke up, he forced me down and raped me so we could have sex "one last time." Later on he apologized and we ended up getting back together. We were together for 4 months after the rape. During that time he never raped me again but was emotionally and verbally abusive. I've never told anyone about this.

This was almost ten years ago and I struggle with guilt and regret. The rape itself does not seem to bother me now, since I've accepted that I had no control over his actions and at the time I was fighting, scratching, yelling, etc to try to stop him. My trauma comes from the fact that I got back together with him after the rape. It's like saying it was ok that he raped me, because I got past it and we got back together. It was not ok. It is never ok. I should have filed charges against him. At the very least I should have never spoken to him again. But I put myself in a terrible position again when I didn't have to, and that's what eats me up inside - I feel guilty that I had that little respect for myself and let him get away with it. Hopefully that makes sense?

[–]laurabyaccident 13 points14 points ago

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I've known some people that this has happened to and I'm very sorry this happened to you. Rape is a serious psychological trauma. The occurrence most likely affected your later decisions in a way that is not congruent with your personality that may be hard to understand. It's not your fault and you shouldn't feel bad about yourself because of your actions. Some counseling may help.

[–]gabbachka 63 points64 points ago

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My ex did that to me too. Two times. After pleading no, and having a pretty serious yeast infection [gross, I know], he continued until he finished, thanked me and then left my house. The second time I said I had a headache; I had to shove him off because he wouldn't accept no for an answer. He just kept saying that it'll make me feel better and that I shouldn't worry.

[–]quirky_euphist 71 points72 points ago

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He sounds like my ex-fiancé. :(

[–][deleted] 158 points159 points ago

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Jesus Christ. I'm so sorry.

[–]allanaskye 71 points72 points ago

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Fuck him.

Edit: I realize now that my comment was worded HORRIBLY. What I actually ment was Fuck that guy he's an Asshole.

[–]11jeckley 19 points20 points ago

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No it's okay, I understand what you meant. We now live over 500 miles apart so it's all good now. I'm in a healthy relationship and am happier than ever. :)

[–]LunaMcLovin 23 points24 points ago

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A guy I dated in high school used to have all those same excuses. I think it comes from the misunderstanding that "if she's wanted to have sex before, it means it's consensual always." It's surprising how many people use this rationalization and whenever I think about it I get so angry that I allowed that to happen to me because I didn't even have a good grasp on what my own rights were and what constitutes forced and coerced sex.

[–]hollow2759 385 points386 points ago

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This thread has been extremely insightful for me. I'm a pretty sensitive guy, and when girls avoid eye contact with me or ignore my existence in public I feel bad about myself. But reading some of the replies to this post made me realize that there's a very real reason that they're doing that. I feel totally fine with women protecting themselves and being cautious, especially now that I understand who they're protecting against.

[–]74294729874 136 points137 points ago

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Yeah, I got stranded in San Francisco until 4 in the morning once, and on my way back to my dorm I had three drunk frat guys threaten to rape and murder me on the spot. They had backed me up against a wall and would not leave me alone. I'm positive that the only reason I didn't end up killed and thrown in the Bay was because a homeless man walking by took notice and yelled at them to "Leave that poor girl alone!" And they did. He was even kind enough to wait a half hour until my bus came and make sure I was safe before he continued to wherever he was going. That man saved my life. I saw him a few weeks later (he didn't remember the incident, I'm fairly certain he's suffering from a mental disability), but I make sure to buy him food every time I see him now.

So it's really not you. It's self-preservation.

[–]DaveGT 14 points15 points ago

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Wow. What a guy. Really pains me to hear that this man is the one living on the street and these asshole frat guys are the ones enjoying life.

[–]GrumbleMumbles 54 points55 points ago

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Oh sweetheart, I avoid eye contact because I'm scared. I've been harassed so many times in public and I don't wanna risk drawing attention to myself.

Waiting for a bus once, around 11:30 at night, somebody grabbed my hand and told me, "Anytime you want, I'll give it to you." A complete stranger. I was terrified.

So it isn't you.

[–]RhinoTattoo 84 points85 points ago

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I know you got buried, but I wish I could upvote this a thousand times. We're not avoiding guys because there's anything wrong with you; we do it to protect ourselves. I'm glad you "get it" now, and hope you won't take our unfriendliness personally in the future.

[–]SlowFoodCannibal 550 points551 points ago

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I want to point out something. A few of the guys who posted in here said they were on the verge of committing rape when they looked at the woman's face...and seeing her distress stopped them, even if their hormones were raging. This seems significant. Guys - here's the good news. The same technique can both 1) prevent you from being a rapist and 2) make you a really good lover. PAY ATTENTION TO HOW YOUR PARTNER IS REACTING. Good rule for safe, sexy times.

[–]AwesomOpossum 86 points87 points ago

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THIS. Drunk people are inherently bad at subtle signals, leading to a breakdown in communication. I wish tips like this were offered at sexual assault courses instead of pretending we're going to verbally ask permission every step of the way.

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]puss_parkerswidow 656 points657 points ago

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Despite being an atheist, I can clearly see that Jesus better for some folks than Jack Daniels...or in this case, Crack Daniels. I commend you for the work you do and hope that you are never hurt by one of these folks you're trying to help. It's true that people do change and substance abuse is a hell of a thing. I don't know that I would ever be able to extend my trust to these guys the way you are doing.

[–]creepysecret 694 points695 points ago

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Awesome read. Refreshing and challenging to hear someone talk about this issue in a way that takes into account the duality and ambiguities that exist in life.

[–]paperbark 226 points227 points ago

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Thanks. What I wish we could talk about is how to truly begin fixing the prison system, which generally devolves into a conversation about race. It's impossible to have conversation about those topics in this country in a meaningful way, never mind on Reddit.

[–]kromyt 24 points25 points ago

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I like your point about having a conversation about the prison system. It does tend to turn into a race conversation, which is a shame. The crux of the problem with the prison system in the US, from my perspective, is that it isn't about rehabilitation at all, but some skewed sense of "punishment." It doesn't teach people how not to be criminals, merely rewards them for illegal behavior.

In prisons where there are programs to help the inmates further themselves and their education, the rate of recidivism is lower. Not really shocking. You take a person that you've imprisoned for 20 years, not taught them anything other than maybe how to do laundry or make whatever item that prison makes to keep them busy. They leave and all they get is a little money they earned while there and their personal effects. Maybe they have a support network, but chances are they don't or it is flimsy at best. Any surprise that someone who has spent 20 years with someone else telling them what to do, how to do it, and when to do it ends up back in prison?

And while, yes, the majority of people in prison and repeat offenders are of a minority race, the other thing they have in common is a good number of them are from lower economic status.

Oh, and one of the major characteristics that a large number of repeat offenders have? They were part of the juvenile justice system which doesn't really focus on rehabilitation, either.

[–]killiangray 118 points119 points ago

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I agree, it's a conversation that we really need to have in this country (assuming you and Don both live in the U.S.)

I particularly liked this point that you made:

I know Reddit doesn't like this, but he's Christian, and he's found a lot of comfort in his faith.

I'm not a religious man myself, but I know people who are, and for some of them it does them a lot of good... It shouldn't always be written off so quickly, as a lot of the folks on reddit are wont to do.

[–]thosethatwere 122 points123 points ago

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Then there's "Don." I can't tell you how good-hearted this guy is.

I don't want to tell you that your friend is evil, that's not my intention.

However, there are people who change at the drop of a hat. They can smile in your face and tell you all the right things, and when your back is turned they will stab you as fast as they can. The thing is, this type of attitude will be very quickly learnt by someone smart in prison, being able to smile when you're so angry your blood is boiling is a very effective defense mechanism.

And by the way, this style of personality is very useful for tricking/picking up women.

[–]guilty_of_innocence 272 points273 points ago

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Just to argue the counter

"Don" may also be a psychopath.

Psychopaths are very good at manipulating people. Often coming across as charismatic.

The term "psychopath" ( with a strict clinical diagnosis was developed in the 1970s as a standardised measure of behavior ). The psychology professor who devised the measurement system said that he has never met someone who has worked with psychopaths that has not at some point got sucked in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopath

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1524500.stm

( psychopaths bit starts halfway down bbc page )

Professor Marnie Rice worked on an innovative treatment scheme for psychopaths at Oakridge Hospital, Penetanguishene, Ontario.

It was thought to be highly successful. However, when she compared re-offending rates, she found that those who had gone through the programme were actually more likely to re-offend.

Professor Hare believes that such courses simply make psychotics more manipulative.

He said: "Many psychopaths describe the traditional treatment programmes as finishing schools where they hone their skills.


It's just a suggestion. I don't know "Don"

[–]Rhinoceros_Party 162 points163 points ago

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It's like looking at one of those illusions that tricks your mind. No matter how long you stare, it boggles the brain. You can't figure it out.

It's a schooner.

[–]Oilypenguin17 721 points722 points ago

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One time my little brother was having a kickback over at my house. One girl walks up to me and leaned on me, so drunk she couldnt even hold herself up. I guided her and sat her down on the couch, walked away.

Later see my brother and her in a bed and hes messing around. Told him to come into the hallway and said that if i ever caught him doing something with a girl that drunk again I'd beat him to death with a wrench and the cops would be scooping him up with a shovel. He was shaken and walked out of the house for a bit, went to go watch some tv and the same girl came and sat on my lap and leaned against me. Carried her to my bed, put her to sleep and locked my bedroom from the outside and went to sleep on the couch.

When i asked my brother he said "She was into it" Some guys dont have the maturity to understand that being drunk doesnt make girls show their true feelings. They see it as making them do what they wanted to do anyways, as opposed to completely fucking them up

[–]JPozz 229 points230 points ago

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This is what every single person needs to do if they ever see anyone doing something like this.

[–]WeeSmithy 151 points152 points ago

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Congratulations on being a good person and a great big brother. Knocking some sense into your little bro may just have saved a future girl a lot of trauma, and him a lot of jail time.

[–]dethkultsocialclub 105 points106 points ago

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That is the kindest and most gentleman like thing I've ever read. I hope more men like you exist.

[–]CoolMachine 120 points121 points ago

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Never thought I'd say this on Reddit: You, sir, are a gentleman.

[–]velizoraptor 1026 points1027 points ago

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My rapist (ex's best friend) told me he knew it was wrong, but would have probably done it again given the chance.

He also was surprised that forced sex didn't make me want to be his girlfriend.

[–]stoltesawa 293 points294 points ago

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WTF and I'm so sorry. Would you mind describing what happened? Did you press charges?

[–]velizoraptor 452 points453 points ago

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He introduced me and my ex, but always liked me. When my ex (abusive crazy fucker) dumped me because he believed he got another girl pregnant, his best friend invited me over to talk and watch movies.

He fed me a bunch of xanax and kept pressuring me to go to his room. Every time I said no, he gave me another bar. Eventually, I reached the point where I thought if I just got it over with, he would leave me alone. Then I remember him waking me up the next morning while I was still stoned, telling me he was going to get more condoms.

None of my friends believed me so I never pressed charges.

[–]jcpuf 336 points337 points ago

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Why did you keep eating the xanax?

[–]velizoraptor 661 points662 points ago

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Because I was a huge xanax addict at the time and it was free.

[–]lemonpjb 395 points396 points ago

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Don't do drugs, kids.

[–]velizoraptor 221 points222 points ago

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You're probably making a joke, but it's definitely true.

[–]lemonpjb 214 points215 points ago

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I am, in fact, totally serious. And I should more accurately say "Don't get addicted to drugs, kids."

[–][deleted] 31 points32 points ago

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Not even. When you're on Xanax, whether you're addicted or not, you easily take more without even consciously knowing it.

Proof: Me waking up many mornings not remembering anything, missing a considerable amount of Xanax. And everybody else on the Internet.

[–]dogsarentedible 292 points293 points ago

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Because she was high on xanax.

[–]johnny_appletits 13 points14 points ago

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xanax makes you give less fucks than anything in the world. It's similar to being extremely drunk, minus a couple things.

[–]stoltesawa 63 points64 points ago

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Shit. I don't know what to say. What a nauseating story. How are you doing now?

[–]velizoraptor 196 points197 points ago

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Really well, thank you. I moved out of that city entirely and am living a whole new life, xanax free.

[–]stoltesawa 74 points75 points ago

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I'm glad to hear it. Thank you for sharing. Be well!

[–]Apostolate 676 points677 points ago

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he knew it was wrong, but would have probably done it again given the chance.

That's a sociopath if I've ever heard of one. He doesn't actually understand it's wrong, he just "gets the idea" that it is.

[–]velizoraptor 60 points61 points ago

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He had always liked me and thought it was mutual.

[–]Dmax12 50 points51 points ago

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He doesn't actually understand it's wrong, he just "gets the idea" that it is.

Actually he completely 'understands' that it is wrong, but a sociopath does not experience empathy, so he does not 'feel' bad about it.

[–]sumthincreative 1585 points1586 points ago

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Never told anyone this... I always felt a little weird about it, until I read the thread about men being raped. Then I felt awful. A friend of mine came over one night just to watch a movie. We ended up snuggling and then kissing, then it progressed almost to sex. He stopped me and said he wasn't really comfortable with this, looked nervous, and said "maybe we should stop". I basically ignored him, kissed him, and went ahead with it anyway. Afterwards, I told him that we should keep this between us. I assumed he was going to leave so when he mentioned sleeping over and cuddling, I seemed pretty put off by the idea but agreed. The next morning he left and we haven't talked since. If our genders were the other way around that would have easily been grounds for rape and I have always felt shitty about it. Since I haven't talked to him I don't know how he feels about it, so I just assume the worst. UPDATE: So, he actually contacted me a few days ago via facebook messenger. I told him I wanted to talk to him about this, and told him everything. I told him what I did was wrong and I apologized for it. He responded by saying I was being silly and that he had just "never had a girl take control like that" and that actually he enjoyed it. He seemed fine with everything and even said we should hang out sometime. I am not in any way saying what I did was okay or forgivable just because he's saying it wasn't a big deal. I'm still a little confused by the whole thing, but I'm glad we talked about it. Just thought I should let you all know.

[–]WaterSnake 843 points844 points ago

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This brings up several interesting things about the gender reversal. I feel like a lot of men would feel bad for turning you down. Society pushes the idea that sex is the ultimate form of gratification for men, and that if he turned it down he must be some sort of wuss / homosexual.

Also, a lot of people said that he could have just thrown you off of him. This is also not really an option. Sure, if he didn't know you and you pushed him into an alley and tried to have your way with him, I'm sure he would have fought back. But from your post, it seems like you were friends, and you were in a home with a comfortable (up until then) situation. Suddenly deciding to get physical and potentially hurt you did not seem like the best idea at the time, especially when you consider that he seemed like he couldn't make up his mind.

Also, thank you for sharing this post. It takes a lot of courage to post things like this, especially when you're the bad guy.

[–]Emrikkaljo 438 points439 points ago

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I feel like a lot of men would feel bad for turning you down. Society pushes the idea that sex is the ultimate form of gratification for men, and that if he turned it down he must be some sort of wuss / homosexual.

I want everybody in the world to read this.

[–]Skanh 214 points215 points ago

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I have a friend - she's a single women in early 20s, Im single male 28. Sometimes we meet, talk and drink together, just 2 of us - but these are not dates per se. Sometimes, she's missing her last bus and sleep at my place - there were never any psychical contact between us. So once my brother (who is also my good friend) found out about it and he started making jokes about "friendship with privileges". When I told him that it's nothing like that, he was so surprised and startled, that it should be hilarious. But it was sad.

Seriously, being gentleman, polite, full of empathy and ethic will give you "weirdo" tag in mainstream. I would want to say "in these times", but I have weird feeling it was always like that and it's just because human race is as it is.

[–]PirateBuckley 62 points63 points ago

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I have a friend like this... I mean we'll cuddle and stuff ,but she's my best friend and we do "love" each other...But we just don't fuck. We enjoy each others company enough that we can have that kind of relationship and then go out and make sexy time with others (and we do) and still do our own thing and just be there for each other. I have friends that swear up and down we've had to have done shit and I've been called a pussy and what not for not "hitting it." So to end my less than sober rant I'll just say keep being there for her and hopefully she will with you, fuck society and the mainstream if she's your baby, she's your baby love doesn't always = sex.

*edit for clarity from a drunk pirate

[–]Dagon 23 points24 points ago

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As another drunk pirate, arrrr, this thread is fucking weird to read while smashed.

[–]PirateBuckley 15 points16 points ago

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No shit, In thread about sexual assault. Talks about fulfilling non-sexual relationships, that's reddit though. Yo ho my good sir

[–]andstuffandstuff 47 points48 points ago

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In the same way that a woman having sex with more men than she can count on one hand makes her a slut or a whore. And the same way that being a virgin at 20 makes you naive and a prude.

Fuck all of that.

[–]eadgbe11 58 points59 points ago

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I once had a woman on top of me and threw her off the bed on to the floor because she just wanted to have fun. At least that's what EVERY ONE OF HER FRIENDS was told. Many of whom I'm very good friends with.

What actually happened is I was drunk, she took advantage of that situation and started making it with me. When I told her I wanted to stop and just go to bed and kept telling me I wanted it, bit my lip so hard it bled, and grabbed my hair and forced me back down when I tried to get up. All I meant to do was buck her off me with my hips and twist get at the same time. Think I was too drunk and judged the force of the movement incorrectly. I even apologized when she was on the floor...but then just turned over and passed out in my stupor. Fortunately most of those friends believed me, but there are still a few people out there that think I abuse women.

Even in a situation where clearly one person is in the wrong, when it comes to this of this nature people are so eager to jump on the "Women are always the victim" bandwagon.

[–]livingmaster 420 points421 points ago

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same exact situation has happened to me before. I lost my virginity through a brutal and violent rape... so years later when that same thing happened to me, I didn't think much of it because he initiated the kissing and all sexytimes. he then said we should maybe stop, and I kissed him and said "do you really want to?" he didn't answer and we kept going. his old roommate is my best friend and he apparently told my bff that I raped him. if he felt that way he should have told me. rape totally messed up my life for a long time and I would have stopped but I didn't think he meant it. we were both VERY drunk. ugh.

edit: I feel like I should add more to the story here to explain why I thought he said the "maybe we should stop" thing. like I mentioned, we were both very drunk and at one point early on in the sex he got a tad bit soft, but then he kept going (at this point he was on top). I went down on him, he got hard again and asked me to be on top. So, I hop on top and that was when he said the "Maybe we should stop" so I assumed he said that because he had got soft and didn't want to hurt my feelings about that or something idk. That was when I asked if he was sure, I kissed him, he kissed me back I gave him a bit to answer and there was no answer so I assumed all was good. my best friend waited months before he told me that the guy ever said that. he knew how much it would hurt me to know he felt that way. I broke down when he DID tell me. I felt so horrible.

edit 2: It really does feel good to finally get this guilt off of my chest. I appreciate all of the comments/discussion in this thread. it has helped me come to some closure with all of this.

[–]threwawayshame 2460 points2461 points ago

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ok..here it is.

It happened when I was maybe 22. I had been visiting a buddy of mine who was living in a basement apartment in a college town. Upstairs lived a single dad and his teenage daughter. The dad worked nights if I recall.

So I show up to my buddies place, and we're having fun day hanging out, pre-drinking before we hit the bars that night. It was summer. The girl from upstairs had a couple friends over. I can't remember how it happened, but me and the girl (she was maybe 17) ended up play wrestling with me pinning her down. We were all laughing, but we when made eye contact...it was "that" look we exchanged. The.."I'd fuck you" look. I immediatly got up and later me and my buddie went to the bar. The night would have gone like any other, drinking, dancing, hitting on women. I remember getting back to the house, and my buddy led me into the girls room. He asked her if I could crash in her room. I was kinda astounded actually that she said yes.

I think thats when in my drunken mind I thought that she MUST have wanted it.

I was on one side of the bed, clumsily trying to play footsie with her. She seemed kinda nervous, but at the same time I remember she was saying provocative things. At some point I just said screw it and climbed on top of her and tried to kiss her. She tried to squirm away.

Now, I remember exactly what I was thinking at the time. This girl gave me "the look" earlier, she invited me into her bed. What teenage girl would pass up the oppertunity to be with a 22 year old guy? She MUST want it. I tried again, and slid my hands over her body.

It was then I looked at her face. She was petrified. I at that point pulled myself together, rolled off her and apologized. My hormones were RAGING. I asked her why she didn't want to. I told her what I thought above. She started to cry.

I got up, apologized again and went to the couch and spent the night staring at the ceiling thinking I was going to go to jail.

My buddy got up and we went for breakfast. When we got back, one the girls friends was there and demanded to speak to me outside. She quietly told me that her friend said I tried to rape her. She wanted to hear my side, since the day before I seemed like such a funny/sweet guy. I told her the story. She looked at me with a disgust I'll never forget and said that I may not have been an actual rapist...but I was as close to one as you could get. I wanted to apologise again, but her friend said it best that I just leave. I got in my car and left right away.

That was the lowest I've ever felt in my life.

[–]absurdamerica 1586 points1587 points ago

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This is why they've finally started teaching Yes means Yes instead of No means No.

Don't wait for a No, elicit a Yes. Don't assume consent exists until you're told otherwise.

[–]posteyedamage 43 points44 points ago

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In college I would always ask girls explicitly if they wanted to have sex. I don't know if it was because I was worried about crossing a line, or if I was just super awkward, but it was how I did things. Obviously you don't open with it, though. I would usually wait until I had some tacit approval for under the shirt action, then ask if she wanted to 'have some sex'. It was surprisingly effective.

[–]schenker 9 points10 points ago

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I slept with a girl for a while who was in a peer education group with me (group focused on sex and alcohol awareness). I just used that common history to ask her explicitly in a "joking" manner about it, something like "Do you consent to this?" with a big smirk on my face. She just laughed, grabbed my ass and pulled me inside her, but we both knew we both consented. I guess my point was that the context can sometimes work out where asking explicitly is not only appropriate but also plays into the mood as well.

[–]Bababingbangs 341 points342 points ago

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My story learning this first hand:

Went on a double date in college, dinner and dancing. The girl was all over me on the dance floor after dinner, we were making out she was feeling my package up and moaning, etc.

We end up going back to my place (both drunk) she pulls me onto the bed and we start making out. We escalate from making out to grinding and "heavy petting" while she is moaning and getting more and more into it the entire time while she is grinding on top of me. I flip her around so she is laying on her back and in my mind i think "she has been grinding on me for 30 minutes and is super into it lets try to get those clothes off" so I reach into her pants and start feeling around.

While kissing her around her neck etc i notice the positive feedback is not happening any more and she is really stiffening up. I stop kissing her, sit up and look at her and ask "hey is this alright"? at this point she just bursts into tears and says NO and starts sobbing.

I always think back to this night and wonder what would have happened if I didnt ask the question? would she have gone along with it? She stiffened up but she never put her hands on me to slow down or said anything. Would she have claimed raped to her friend after? I dunno. Ever since then I ALWAYS ask at every single different "step" because it is better to look like an noob than a rapist. It is really hard in this situation as a guy because gender roles demand that you push/escalate the sexual encounters.
In my experience, if the guy doesnt constantly try to get to the next base with the girl putting the limit and saying "no i am not ready" then the girl will think the guy isnt into them. Every time I have rejected a girl for sex or "advancing" they immediately ask "what is wrong? am I not good/pretty/nice enough?" You really cant win.

[–]nononotoryuss 71 points72 points ago

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This young lady was very lucky to be with you and not some asshole who would have just ploughed through that awkward part. I wonder what was going through her mind. She was clearly somewhat into other stuff you guys were doing, and I don't think it's unreasonable to suspect that the night might end with sex. Just goes to show that people, no matter how sexually aggressive or self-assured they may seem, might still not be able to fully state their boundaries. Good on you for reading the signals and asking.

[–]Tortured_Sole 149 points150 points ago

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Nice and fun little thing is to turn undressing into a game, she undresses me, then I her. Shirt for a shirt, shoes for shoes, trousers etc for skirt and so on. At any stage she doesn't remove my item of clothing, or hesitates - "Are you OK? Are you happy with this? You can leave with no bad feelings at any time" (and often add "you're totally in control of what happens"). Keeps the mood going.

I find stopping and "Do you want sex?" instantly kills the mood, but involving the lass fully in the early stages as part of a game is enough for me... and fun too :D

[–]omegaphora 180 points181 points ago

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What is this and where is this taught?

[–]absurdamerica 315 points316 points ago

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Colleges and Sex Ed courses are adjusting their content on consent to focus more on expressly obtaining consent instead of both parties assuming consent until they hear "No".

[–]ns0 253 points254 points ago

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Besides without positive 'Yes' you're just beating around the bush.

[–]udalan 12 points13 points ago

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I found I was never wrong, but I always asked "Do you have a condom", It never ruined the mood, they would always say "Yes" once or twice "Do you?" Which I always had on me.

Bang, your using a condom and nothing is awkward.

[–]itellitasiseeit 226 points227 points ago

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my one question is... why did your friend think it was a good idea to ask her that you crash in her bed?

[–]bdmflyer 68 points69 points ago

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My only guess is that OP mentioned "the look" drunkenly at the bar, and the friend tried to be a wingman.

[–]Afrojitsu 909 points910 points ago

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This story gave me some mixed emotions. On one hand you were close to being a rapist, but at the same time you really did think she wanted to have sex, and stopped immediately when you realized that she didn't

[–]threwawayshame 953 points954 points ago

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I'm a good man. I have a wife and a couple of kids now and I'm a good father and husband. I'm a pretty moral guy. But I think the thing that has always stuck with me...is how close I came to actually doing it. If I hadn't looked up at her face and seen what she was feeling, I might have continued. In my mind, at the time, she wanted it. I can remember staring at the ceiling while on the couch thinking "in a couple of minutes she's going to come out here and get on top of me".

I'll never defend a rapist, but I remember what a combo of hormones, inuendo, booze and oppertunity can lead to.

The sad thing is...the thing that makes me wince...is that somewhere that girl is now a woman and is out there. She remebers that night and I fear that it has affected her in ways that an apology just couldn't fix.

[–]lorakeetH 183 points184 points ago

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I would be really interested to know if you think this will have any impact on your parenting. If you have daughters, does this sort of thing give you nightmares? Do you think you’ll worry more for their safety, or come down harder on them for ever drinking? If you have sons, will part of your “talk” some day include hammering home lessons on consent and drunkenness?

[–]threwawayshame 469 points470 points ago

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I have one of each and when the time comes, I'll speak to them about both sides of sex. The good and the bad. How to make the good better and how the bad can ruin a life.

I'm in my mid 30's now, and when I was a kid...a young teen...our sex ed was only really the biology of it. How it's done. Pregnancy. And God the STD's. The early 90's sex = aids when it came to sex ed. I think it's important to teach the psychology of sex...why you do it and why someone wants you to do it to them.

But I think the most lasting thing from that night was how sex was defined for me. I can't make love to my wife if she's not 100% into it. If she's just going through the motions...which in a marriage happens somtimes...I have to stop. I feel guilty. My wife will tell me it;s no big thing. She's probably making the shopping list in her head and has no problem whatsoever with the sex...but it makes me feel creepy.

But what am I gonna tell her? I feel that way cause I almost raped a teenage girl a few years before we met.

It's weird reading some of these comments though. The prevailing message seems to be "she put out signals, you made a play, you realized your mistake, bravo"

I dunno. I don't know if a moral superiority within made me stop..I'm pretty sure it did. I mean, I can't see myself doing that. But thats a sober me thinking those thoughts. Thats a collected me thinking that.

I'm sure there's a part of me that gutlessly thought...she WILL tell, and there's no way a 22 yr old drunk guy's going to be able to explain that it wasn't rape.

I dunno. I just know that am I truely sorry to the girl. Looking back she was just a teenage girl that thought I was a nice guy. Harmless even. And I forced myself on her in her own bed. That's skeezy.

My advice to guys and girls is to straight out ask if you are both on the same page. It takes 15 seconds. Just stop and ask. Someone posted that Yes means Yes is a far better alternative to No means No. I 100% agree.

[–]lorakeetH 24 points25 points ago

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I think people are giving you a break on this because you seem like it matters to you, and that makes you seem like you’re an okay person. If you were on here bragging about it, people would be hard on you, but it’s reassuring to some extent that it seems to have actually mattered to you. I’m not excusing you, but people fuck the hell up sometimes, especially as kids, and I’m pretty sure if it was your kid you wouldn’t be happy, but you would also emphasize that he was lucky to not have had the situation be worse than it was, that he was a better person for stopping than he would have been for continuing, and that the most responsible, moral thing to do is to take it as an opportunity to be a better person in the future, which it seems like you have. While there may be differences in scale, you would have a hard time finding anyone who hasn’t done something they worry makes them evil at some point in their life, especially as a teenager or young adult.

[–]TapDancingTigress 198 points199 points ago

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Sons or daughters, I hope the idea of clear consent, "The Enthusiastic Yes" is hammered home. Teenage girls need to know that they can speak up about their sexual decisions, and that they have the right to say "Yes" or "No," loudly and clearly, because hey, teenage boys swimming in hormones might not have seen what threwawayshame saw.

When I was 17, I was the female in a similar situation - alone with a cute older guy, making out. The only difference was, I told the guy, "No, stop" when he tried to remove my clothes. THEN, he reached up under my shirt and grabbed my breasts so hard, I had 5 finger-shaped bruises the next day, on both breasts. I literally had to shove him off and remove myself from the situation - I grabbed my friend and we left. Repeated No's weren't enough. Luckily, I was more pissed than scared, and that's probably why it didn't scar me.

Here's the thing - I had always been taught that I was in charge of what happened to my body. If I had for one second thought it wasn't ok to say no out loud, if I had thought, "He'll get angry and hurt me more if I say no," if I had been scared, not pissed, it could have been a much different story. I was taught that I had the sexual power, not the other way around.

I urge parents to teach their daughters AND sons to not only respect other people's sexual decisions, but to be both proud of and able to stand up for their own.

**TL,DR: Teach your children that they are in charge of their own bodies. It makes the difference between having the power and courage to say "no" or "yes" and being too afraid to say either.

[–]lorakeetH 24 points25 points ago

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I appreciate your answer. I had some qualms about dividing it by gender when I asked the question, but I was curious if it made a difference to the guy I was asking, as I’ve noticed that my boyfriend tends to divide things based on our future children’s gender than I do. I’m pregnant, and I’ve been thinking a lot about exactly what you’re talking about lately, about how to have a kid and teach him or her to be in control of her or his own body. It’s scary.

[–]glowghost 182 points183 points ago

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Shit, I would've had the worst response to that. All I could think of was, "No, I tried to have sex with her. I stopped when I realized it would be rape."

[–]dowork91 207 points208 points ago

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Shitty situation, man. Good on you for realizing what was up and pulling yourself out of that.

[–]spm5276 2890 points2891 points ago

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1) You "wrestled" earlier. 2) You went to the bars, got drunk. 3) Came back, invited in to bed. 4) Possible provocative talk? 5) You tried something. 6) Without her saying a word, you realized of your own volition what you were doing was wrong and removed yourself from the situation.

I've got good news for you, if you were a rapist you would have raped her. Congratulations!

[–]OlgerO 1366 points1367 points ago

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hehe well said, I would not call your actions that day admirable, but you obviously never had any intention to hurt this girl.

[–][deleted] 754 points755 points ago

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True that. Another reason why bluntly asking if someone wants to have sex with you is just so incredibly important. And this can be done in a sexy, not mood-killing way!

[–]ilovegingermen 1011 points1012 points ago

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Exactly. "Hey baby, can my tubeworm go right on ahead up in that hairy sex clam of yours right meow or what?" usually works just fine for me.

[–]stonewilled 424 points425 points ago

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So using this tonight. Pics of slap mark to come!

Edit: It works! Of course I have been sleeping with the girl I used it on. She may have even thought it was funnier than I did!

What a lucky guy I am.

[–]thatscaryteenager 152 points153 points ago

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There wasn't one word in that sentence that wasn't sexy.

[–][deleted] 98 points99 points ago

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i've been accused of rape in a similar situation, but we actually had sex. she invited me in specifically to have sex, using those exact words: "let's have sex. right now." That excited me and i was ready to do it for sure. I was inexperienced and she was kind of stiff/lifeless. I went down on her, she didn't respond, i came up and penetrated her, didn't finish, realized it was going nowhere, got off of her and rested for awhile til I decided to slip out into the night.

A few days later her friends started texting me attacking me over "what i did to *****" and I was just dumbstruck... til that point i had thought of it as nothing more than bad sex. a sloppy, drunk, awful attempt to screw that neither of us enjoyed. Her friends affirmed that she had called it rape and were really angry at me and alienated me from our mutual group of friends. feels bad.

[–]Aikidi 79 points80 points ago

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Now that's sort of a confusing point. If she says "we should have sex now" and you have sex, but she changed her mind without telling you, what the fuck? I agree that "yes means yes" should define consent, rather than "no means no". However, if someone says "yes", and then engages in sex, and then changes their mind but does nothing at all to indicate this change of mind, how can you be expected to just assume that she no longer wants to have sex?

[–]undiagnosedinsanity 50 points51 points ago

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You did the right thing, but as a girl I find it appalling that she accused you of raping her. She explicitly said she wanted to have sex with you and she never said "No" or pulled away. It sounds like she didn't give you any kind of signal at all that she didn't want to (although some would argue that a lack of response is a no). I would have interpreted it as bad sex too.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points ago

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i know i can't prove the story, and i appreciate you believing me. i honestly just thought we had bad, awkward sex, which was enough of a bummer for me, being inexperienced with women.. but when i was accused of rape it really felt very bad. I didn't really question myself at the time or feel a whole lot of guilt, but it deeply troubled me -- i was afraid of my reputation being permanently damaged, and i was pained by the idea of having made a woman feel that way. It was my first year in college and i had just finished my first women's studies course, which was my introduction to feminist theory. I felt it was changing my world view for the better, and i was trying to better myself. when this shit happened i felt like shit for a long time.

Thnx for the reply

[–][deleted] ago

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[deleted]

[–]thisisathrowaway2010 583 points584 points ago

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I've never shared this story. Throw away account, no karma points. Lean into 10 years ago...

I was good friends with a girl and asked her to a work party, we both got lit. We had been friends for a few years and nothing had happened but she knew I had a slight crush on her. We were fairly dressed up since it was a fine dining type function.

When we got back to her house I was shocked when she said, "alright, lets go (gesturing to the bedroom with a smile)". I don't remember asking for sex, I don't remember discussing it, I don't remember it even crossing my mind, just in her living room with her and the words "alright, lets go".

We went into her room and began to undress with what started as consensual, as we did she seemed preoccupied. We jumped into bed. Little of this, little of that. Slowly as things progressed I can't recall what happened. I honestly can't, it's not that i'm scared or afraid, I really don't remember. All I do remember is she was crying. She was having a flash back from her father raping her. I remember pulling off her and she kept crying. I then do remember doing something i'm probably most ashamed of is asking her to finish me off, more begging for it. My hormones were going insane, I didn't have any empathy in my heart at that moment just my own concerns. She wasn't a person anymore just a path, a tool, a means to an end. Then once again, I can't remember. I don't remember what happened, I never asked her. I almost don't want to know. But I know I got off.

I hate to say it but after it was done I went to bed, she stayed up crying.

It wasn't until two days later that I realized I had done something awful. She and I are still good friends, we obviously don't date. This was only because I came forward and profusely apologized for what I did and how I treated her. She didn't say she understood, she didn't say it was alright, she explained how much it took away everything that she thought made her important, special and human. As if I could have beat the fuck out of her and it would have been less painful. She didn't characterize it with words, all she said is I know somewhere underneath all of the negatives you have something positive waiting, I've been trying to live up to that since.

[–]magnitiki 109 points110 points ago

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~

[–]TapDancingTigress 387 points388 points ago

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And this is why rape is so insidious. Her first rape prevented her from having an intimate relationship with someone she should have been able to trust.

I'm not condoning what you did. I just wanted to highlight the fact that, without that prior rape, you guys probably would have had a fun, fine, safe evening.

[–]I_hate_fountainhead 375 points376 points ago

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I dated a girl for two years whose first sexual encounter had been a rape. Despite several attempts at relationships she had been unable to be physical with anyone beyond kissing. Through a lot of trust building, taking it slow, and asking for consent for everything (that was key, even for mundane stuff you may think is on the same level) she got ok with being physical and then sex. However, there was still a lot of crying at first. Nothing to do but console her, not ask questions and let her talk and proceed at her pace. Eventually we had a pretty normal sex life and even though it didn't work out, I'm pretty happy to say she's gone on to have other good relationships.

[–][deleted] 60 points61 points ago

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As a female whose first two sexual endeavors were rape, thank you for your patience. I kind of went to opposite way that your ex did, as I thought I was just a living sex toy. I'd sleep with any guy anywhere, any hole, for a long time. I finally dealt with my emotions (and still am) and have a very normal sex life now. It took a guy like you that actually took his time figuring out what I liked and was comfortable with to make me enjoy sex and not just do it for his enjoyment only. I'd had sex probably 100 times before I had an orgasm from it. My mind was definitely blown that day. I had no clue that sex could be fun and enjoyable.

[–]justforthisthread86 39 points40 points ago

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I'm a little the same as you. My first sexual encounter was with a guy from the defence academy about 8 years ago when I was 18. We went back to his dorm after going on a few dates, he was so drunk he passed out and one of his mates cracked onto me, I was really drunk and kind of dazzled that all of these guys were interested in me that way (being an A-grade, reclusive, shy person meant I was not someone who was popular at all in school). So, his friend is hitting on me hard, being so drunk I kind of go with it.

In the middle of all this the first guy wakes up and tells his mate to "fuck off", which the guy does. I can't really remember what happened after that, but eventually we started messing around, I was totally into it and fine, but when he first penetrated me it hurt and after that I started to get turned off. I told him to stop, tried to push him off, etc. Didn't work, he kept going till he finished. I have no idea how long it went but it felt like forever.

I stayed there the night because I had no other way of going home, and after the incident with his mate didn't really feel safe trying to get out alone. The next morning he said he was 'sorry it took so long' and said it was because he was so drunk. I don't know if he really was so drunk he didn't realise I was trying to get him to stop, or if he did realise but it was a kind of payback for his friend. I don't know, either way I felt like a slut for the mate thing, and dirty because of him and at the end I was still blaming myself for it.

Flick forward a year or so and I'm dating another guy. We've had sex plenty but one day I'm just not into it, he starts trying, I say that I don't really want to. He didn't say anything, just kept going. I just lay there on my stomach not moving or doing anything and didn't say anything else. I felt like it was wrong to say no to your boyfriend and definitely wrong to physically try and stop him when he wanted it that much.

After this I thought fuck it, it's easier to be the initiator and to just have sex with whoever rather than let them initiate and risk them not stopping when I want them to. I don't know why that seemed logical at the time, it just did. So I turned into some sex crazy person for a while. I cheated on my boyfriend (the guy in the second incident) with another guy which continued as casual sex for several months before I eventually broke up with the boyfriend. I didn't feel that I was doing anything wrong, I had had a casual thing going with the guy I was cheating with before I started dating this guy, so I felt like it had nothing to do with my boyfriend. By the time I broke up with him I was relieved to have it over and not see him again.

Flick forward again a couple of years, new boyfried who i'd been with for several months, had had sex with, etc. (we're now very happily married as of this year). He came home horny and thought he'd spice things up a bit by being a bit rough, all that stuff, which would have been totally fine except for my history which he didn't know anything about. I tried to go along with it for a bit, but I ended up bursting into tears and he stopped. He was very confused and felt so bad, I ended up telling him everything and he just hugged me for a long time and let me cry it out. I still feel guilty about making him feel so bad when he was just trying to be exciting and kinky.

I do wonder how this experience has affected my sex life. I find it very hard to orgasm and it took me several years to have my first one, is this psychological or is it something physical which makes it difficult? My libido now is very low, fortunately my husband is just as happy to cuddle as I am, we can go for months and months without sex but thankfully we still feel fulfilled. It feels to me now that sex is easy to come by and doesn't have that much emotion attached to it, whereas genuine loving cuddles where you're happy just to lie spooning is so much harder to come by and therefore so much more valuable.

Something else which kind of sickens me is that I get a little turned on when I hear about, or see in a movie or whatever, girls having sex forced on them. Coming from my experience shouldn't I feel revolted and not turned on?

I don't feel like I'm particularly damaged, I didn't even realise I had actually been sexually assaulted not once, but twice until a horrified friend I confided in pointed it out. I just thought it was two guys (one drunk, the other completely sober) doing what guys do. Wasn't until I met my husband and his friends that I realised I could feel completely safe and protected with a man and not have to worry that he might decide to take what he thinks is his.

Edit: wow, didn't realise how epic that became. sorry kids.

[–]organicmaddie 128 points129 points ago

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you're a good man.

[–]DistractionDragon 19 points20 points ago

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Seconded. I've been in that place, crying every time I had sex, especially when I got off, worrying my partner sick, and I've had a couple of amazing partners who helped me through the transition and didn't get too freaked out to stick around. It can't be fun to deal with. Kudos to you.

[–]itellitasiseeit 41 points42 points ago

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hottest man on reddit

[–]fazedandconfused 344 points345 points ago

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EDIT: I feel the need to clarify that I am a girl. I am the younger sister of a convicted rapist.

I've been waiting for an opportunity to share my story on reddit for awhile. My older brother (13) raped a young boy in our neighborhood (9 or 10?) about ten years ago. He also manipulated my young friends into doing inappropriate things for him. He did treatment and went to jail for two years. We're adults now, and friends for the most part. Our family generally acts like it never happened. Now he's actually been approved to have it sealed from his record and I'm really not sure if I'm okay with that. If there's interest, I've thought about doing an AMA.

[–]Dont_blink_angel 480 points481 points ago

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My brother did something similar, he molested a young girl when he was about fifteen and she was six. He didn't go to jail, but had to get treatment and probation. They expunged his record when he turned 21. As far as I know, he's never done anything like that again, or did anything like that before; but I still won't leave him alone with my son. It's not like he went joyriding or had some other sort of teenage fun, he destroyed a little girl's life. I won't take that chance.

[–][deleted] 334 points335 points ago

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This is the appropriate response.

[–]fazedandconfused 113 points114 points ago

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Ya this is pretty much how i feel about it. This kind of mistake is really not comparable to other childhood mistakes and I find it alarming so many redditors disagree. I don't want him to pay for it every day for the rest of his life but I don't fully trust that the thought or urge will never cross his mind again, and that he wouldn't consider doing it again if he knew he could manipulate the situation successfully and get away with it. I want someone to be keeping an eye on him always.

[–]anon_gottathrowaway 95 points96 points ago

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As a girl who was sexually molested by her older brother when he was 14 and I was 7, I can't agree with you more. My brother has children of his own now... and it scares me. He's had help for it, and his wife knows, and he's apologized to me in every way imaginable... but I think it's fucked me up in a LOT of ways. I don't think i'll ever let him be alone with my children...

[–]Dont_blink_angel 43 points44 points ago

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That's one of my biggest fears, that he'll have children of his own one day. I know he has a lot of issues because we were both molested as children, and like you said, it fucks you up in a LOT of ways. He had help for it, too, and his therapist said he was "untreatable"--a sociopath. He repeated the cycle, and then became an addict. Two things that add up to someone who should never have or be alone with children.

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[–]gb003k 146 points147 points ago

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My roommate in college got black out drunk but was still awake, he came back to consciousness in the middle of having sex with a girl with her on top of him. The girl had tried to hook up with him five or six times before and he had always said no. Even when he came too he kept having sex. He claimed that he thought it was funny but he never talked to that girl again. Good on you for stopping and telling him the truth in the morning.

[–]notmesaidthebee 69 points70 points ago

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I have a friend who did the exact same thing you did, in a similar state of drunkeness (for both parties), except he's a man. He ended up serving about six months in jail and he's now a registered sex offender.

[–]partyboystu 172 points173 points ago

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hey guys, I've been reading a lot of these and one recurrent theme keeps popping up: Alcohol.

I'm not saying don't drink, but I hope these stories give you a little more insight on how much alcohol can change your judgement and make you do things that sober you would never do.

[–]siren_testimonial 343 points344 points ago

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I literally just read over all of these posts, every single one, searching for my story, from my rapist's point of view... Some would start out resembling it, and I'd get my hopes up, but then as I read on, I'd find out it's not him. It's weird, I'm looking for this story with this strange little hope that I find it, he admits that he raped me, and that he feels bad... like it would somehow heal that gaping wound I feel. Like it would finally help me move forward and feel better.

But as it would appear... he's either not a redditor, or he just hasn't admitted it. So instead of feeling better, I now have so many stories of others just ringing in my head, a stomach twisting with emotions that have been brought back up, and I feel very let down.

Edit: Thank you so much, everyone. Wow, I am so in awe of the support I just received. I expected this comment to be buried beneath everything, but I'm so thankful that it was seen and that I'm not alone in this. Though you don't even know me, you offer your advice and it means more than you could even know. 'Thank you' doesn't begin to cover what I want to express.

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[–]megedy 72 points73 points ago

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I've been doing that, too. It's just so hard to look away. The worst part is seeing the stories that resemble mine, and hearing them say "...but I didn't actually have penis-in-vagina sex, I stopped right before that so it's not rape!" and then seeing comments that are "good for you, congratulations on not being a a rapist."

It's still damaging, it's still rape, and I was hurt for a long time because of what happened. :( On the other hand, it's good to know that there are just so many other survivors like me out there that feel the same. Have internet hugs. <3

[–]Shinybug 256 points257 points ago

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Most rapists probably don't realize they did something wrong. I was sexually assulted every school day for two years (not raped, but I had bruises all over my breasts every second day ) by two high school classmates. One of them wrote me recently that he "really enjoyed all the fun we had." Back then they told me that nobody would belive what they did to me because I am ugly (I have freckles). I never told it to anyone. They are happily living their lives and I have never even had a boyfriend as this whole thing kinda ruined my social skills.

[–]CurtR 32 points33 points ago

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In middle school and high school, shit like that happened to two girls in the back of the bus. I can honestly say that I wasn't apart of it, physically, but I certainly watched and did nothing to stop it.. I knew it was wrong, and I didn't respect the guys doing it. To my knowledge, no bruises or anything occurred.. Just a lot of grabbing and prodding. It was never violent.

Anyway, one of the girls had freckles. I'm sorry that happened to you, and I'm sorry people like me never did anything to stop it.

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[–]donteatmenooo 42 points43 points ago

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Oh my goodness that is messed up. Not only were they abusing you physically, they were telling you you were ugly! UGH! I'm so sorry, I hope you have been able to move on and realize that you probably ARE beautiful. On a positive note, I recently learned that guys actually really do like freckles: http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/x4yhu/im_the_girl_with_the_brave_costume_from_a_few/c5jccn1. :)

[–]throwbabyaway89 550 points551 points ago

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I was an extremely isolated youth who came from a broken home. My escape was the internet. At about sixteen I was exposed to alot of PUA material, which (not having a father or mother really around) shaped my life up until I was about 20. Most of the material was very objectifying and sexually aggressive towards women.

I was seventeen and had been invited by a pretty but somewhat timid girl to go to a club with a few of her friends. Being a social recluse, I eagerly accepted. As soon as we got onto the dance-floor she grabbed me quite roughly and started making out with me. This was one of my first kisses so naturally I was pretty shell-shocked.

We ended up in the backseat of a car with her 2 friends driving. It was about a 30 minute drive back to the suburbs. We started making out. I started fingering her. She grabbed my wrist. "Not here" she said. I didn't care. I kept on with her anxiously checking the front seat to see if her friends noticed. "Not here, they'll see." For some reason it didn't faze me. I felt justified. I could sense she was uncomfortable, but I continued. We eventually made it to her house, her friends dropping us off. She ran up the path to her doorstep and turned around. "Bye" she'd say.

I wouldn't talk to her again for years. Eventually we'd both be drunk and have an hour long talk about it, where she confessed to me that I was only the 2nd guy she'd kissed and the first to really touch her and the experience had left her a bit shaken for a year or two.

I carried that mark on my conscience for years. She's happy from what I hear and living in a great city. We don't talk anymore.

I don't condone rape or sexual assault. It's a terrible thing to impose your will upon another person. But I think to commit these sort of things shows a significant and somewhat demented flaw in your character. I always (and still) have had a lot of trouble connecting with other people. Sex was the one thing I understood. Intimacy was acceptance. I craved it.

I've had a few more experiences with things like this, most of them being in the grey area, but this is the one that really stuck out with me because we were both so young and at such an awkward phase in our lives.

[–][deleted] 164 points165 points ago

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you know, i get the feeling the PUA thing may have been responsible for a lot of questionable acts. reading the people involved, you realise the trick was to teach themselves genuinely not to care about women. dangerous.

[–][deleted] 42 points43 points ago

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What I think is happening is that you see a lot of "nice guys" pick up a PUA book and read a few lines of being aggressive, figure being non aggressive isn't working and decide to go full-steam-ahead aggressive.

[–]MuppetManiac 162 points163 points ago

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I don't really see how this is a gray area. She said no and you kept going. By your own admission, you're wearing the black hat.

[–]mspax 8 points9 points ago

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I had a very similar incident with a woman back in college. We were both 22 at the time this happened. We were roommates and fell into a routine of getting drunk and making out. One night things get especially frisky. My hands wander, but she seems into it. Suddenly she grabs me by the hand and pulls it off of her. Things were never the same after that night. She acted all kinds of weird and our friendship deteriorated with no real explanation. Our last night together we went out with some friends and it was like she was back to her old self. But when I tried to email her a few weeks later, I heard nothing. Months went by with me wondering what happened. I felt awful, but didn't want to exacerbate the situation by continually trying to contact her. A year and a half later, I get the email I never though I'd see. It's her! She apologized for not responding to my emails and asked if I knew why she stopped talking to me. Of course I wanted to know! Turns out she'd never kissed a guy before, let alone been touched by one. The whole situation was overwhelming for her, so she just shutdown on me. She began to hate me over time, which she said was wrong of her. I felt even worse after reading that. I'm generally a really nice person and I can't say at any point did I ever want to hurt this woman. So how could this have happened? I apologized profusely, as did she. We talked several times over the next couple weeks and we both started to feel much better about the whole situation. I finally got to visit with her and meet her husband a couple years ago. It means the absolute world to me that she was able to forgive me. We're great friends now :-)

[–]elkanor 19 points20 points ago

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Your experience is very different for a single reason: You stopped when she told you (well, told you physically) to stop. Having weird feelings about your first sexual contact is normal, especially if you aren't able to talk about what you are doing for whatever reason.

Your incident isn't similar if you respected her boundaries.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points ago

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You stopped. The problem with most of the men in this thread is that they didn't.

[–]ghoulina_3788 229 points230 points ago

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my aunt's husband had molested me between the ages of 8-12, I never reported anything to the police because when I mentioned it to my aunt, she thought it was a ploy to get attention so I never told anyone. it's sad that there are people out there that would use it as a ploy, but for the victims out there, it puts us in a hard place, because no matter what we say, we will always get at least one person who says that we lie, or the, "hmmm well are you sure?" condescending face, it's disgusting. I've had bad things happen a couple of times in my life but I never got the perspective of what those men were thinking, I've always wanted to know though, just never thought to ask I guess...too scared to face them

[–]COCOnizzle 149 points150 points ago

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Similar story here.

When I was 11, my parents sent me to visit my aunt and uncle in California for a few weeks. My uncle ended up molesting me violently, and nearly raped me. -I still remember what I was wearing-

I actually ran away to a local gas station to call my mom. Well he got on his bicycle and chased me down. He bought me ice cream and apologized, all while telling me how he was molested as a child. He eventually earned my trust back and made himself out to be the victim. By the time I said something to my aunt, he had already gotten to her. He told her, my other family in California, and even his church that I was running around telling lies for attention.

The first person I tried to reach out to punished me. She spanked me for telling and spreading lies then locked me in a room. She called my parents and told them I was being deviant and needed a flight home ASAP.

I never told anyone else of the incident. When I was 23, we all found out he had been raping and sodomizing his daughter who was 14 when she came forward. I still feel guilty to this day for not speaking up, and possibly saving her innocent years.

[–]phoenixphaerie 124 points125 points ago

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I still feel guilty to this day for not speaking up, and possibly saving her innocent years.

I know it's tough, but please remember that you were a child yourself, and at the mercy of several adults who should have known better.

[–]Dirty_Liberal_Hippie 94 points95 points ago

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I've read through this whole thread, so far and yours breaks my heart the most...Perhaps, because I can relate to it the most. I've been there as well... Though it was not my Uncle.... It was my Dad.

And my mom knew what he was doing, she was in denial I guess...Not wanting to admit her husband could abuse her son that way....

And I would try to tell others, but he had them convinced that I was a liar and was not to be trusted.... I have great resentment against my dad for turning things around to make ME look like the bad guy and having everyone take his side....

When he raped and molested me... and I also have great resentment toward my mom who to this day, still refuses to acknowledge what he did.

Growing up, I did not know what to do, so I just gave up...I felt like... No one would believe me anyway and I would just get in trouble for "making up stories" again...

Eventually, As I got older, I was able to avoid him and then when older, just move the hell out ASAP....

There is a stigma that guys face...Guys who have been raped.... I've had people tell me in all seriousness that " guys can't possibly be raped because all guys want it".

Well, let me tell something to anyone who believes that. I did not want sex from my father. I did not want what he did to me. I did not ask for it and I did not deserve it!

No one deserves that, man, woman, boy or girl...No one deserves to be raped...

[–]ghoulina_3788 11 points12 points ago

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seriously this story is so painful, I'm really sorry you had to go through so much trauma during what supposed to be childhood fun years... yes, it's indeed very possible for a guy to get raped and it's awful that a stigma like that has become so mainstream. I'm hoping you have pushed through that stigma and have decided to take like by the balls and just rule it, because after something like that you deserve nothing more. stay strong man, we've got it

[–]Dirty_Liberal_Hippie 17 points18 points ago

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I do the absolute best I can, every day. I am not going to lie. I do struggle....Sometimes.

Nightmares/flashbacks of what he did to me. Trust issues...Things like that. But at the end of the day, I am okay, and I strive to be a great person and role model.

I do have a girlfriend. I am so lucky. She is so understanding. She always encourages me to talk about it rather than just keep it bottled up. But at the same time, I hate bringing it up to vent, when needed, because I can see it in her eyes that it hurts her heart to know what I went through...So, I find myself not bringing it up...Just because I don't want to see that pain in her eyes....

But, I digress.

It is a ridiculous stigma to suggest that all guys want it all the time and therefore can never be raped. Very maddening.

[–]qqrrqq 9 points10 points ago

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As the girlfriend of a man who was abused as a child, it does pain my heart to listen to what he endured but I would never not listen to him. As hard as it is to revisit for him (and how it's kind of made me hate his family), I know it helps to have someone believe him and vocalize that what happened to him was wrong.

[–]mari_who 8 points9 points ago

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You DID speak up.

[–][deleted] 38 points39 points ago

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I can't stand the "Are you sure?" that almost hurts more than not believing you.

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[–]elaine_babe_talktome 64 points65 points ago

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Is it sad that i keep looking at the posts to see if it's the same scenario as when I was assaulted?....to see if it's the guy...

[–]IAreSeriousCat 42 points43 points ago

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I am too. This is like the sixth time I've tried to stop reading and come back. In a thread this size there are probably literally hundreds of us doing the same thing. I get the feeling that this has been a really painful evening for a lot of people.

It occurs to me that his perspective of what happened is probably so distorted that I won't recognize it even if he did post something.

[–]ThisAppleThisApple 246 points247 points ago

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Reading a lot of these stories just makes me believe more strongly in the need to change our understanding of rape as something that's defined by impact AND intent--the understanding that without firm evidence of BOTH, it's not rape. This thread, like so many others, just demonstrates how much more complicated rape is...having such a simplistic understanding of it (an understanding that seems to be supported--or at least carried out--by the US justice system) only causes resentment, defensiveness, and a really fucked up order of priorities.

When a woman or man says she or he has been violated or raped, that claim should not be reliant on the existence of either a.) a rapist who knowingly intended to take advantage of him or her or b.) a rapist who could have interpreted his or her signals for the rapist to stop. Telling someone that their devastating feelings of violation are invalidated because someone didn't mean to cause them is as absurd as telling someone that he or she is a rapist even though his or her partner gave every indication of consent.

Many of the posts responding to the spirit of the majority of the stories posted here seem to be along the lines of, "Why aren't there more REAL rape stories?" or "Where all my REAL sex offenders at?" This indicates a failure of people to see this thread's potential to be a pretty significant learning experience--that is, that these posts ARE representative of the majority of rape and sex offense incidents.

Those incidents are confusing and weird and almost never feature a clear "good guy" and "bad guy" because most human interactions don't feature clear good guys and bad guys. Rape incidents should not be sorted into categories based on the false choice of a.) X willfully took advantage of Q, despite Q's clear and obvious protests and struggles OR b.) Q told X that Q was totally dtf, and then later Q decided to be a total asshole and claim that X raped Q.

It's possible for Q to be raped without X being a rapist.

The best thing I can think of to compare the separation of impact and intent to would be murder. Let's say there are two families. Each family has a young child, and each of those children is killed. The first child is killed because he ran out in front of a car and the driver was texting. The second child was brutally murdered by a kidnapper. The former would be (in the US legal system and dependent on the state) involuntary manslaughter, and the latter would be first degree murder. The difference between the two is intent, which is separated from impact; impact is not reliant on proof of or existence of intent--both situations acknowledge and affirm the family's devastating loss. In fact, even if the driver in the first scenario were not texting--if the driver did absolutely everything right and could not have reasonably been expected to avoid the child, no one would say to the parents of that child, "He didn't mean to do it--he couldn't have done anything else; stop being all sad now."

Talking about rape (not just legally, but socially as well) as an impact that is false unless there is some kind of proven intent is a disservice to survivors of rape and to many of the people who participate in sexual acts that result in another individual feeling raped or violated.

I didn't talk about my molestation for years because I felt like my feelings of violation weren't legitimate; I didn't struggle and instead just shut down and lie there, hating it. I still don't talk about any of the times I've felt incredibly violated during sex because I know that the people I was having sex with at those times were not trying to and would never knowingly violate me--they just didn't notice when I shut down, which I know now can be a pretty common response and definitely one that is both involuntary and prevents me (and other men and women who experience it) from being able to articulate that I no longer want to participate.

I don't think that those individuals are guilty, but I also don't believe it's currently possible to talk about rape in our society without assigning blame--the person who has determined that he or she was raped almost exclusively meets reactions that try to validate the experience communicated based on the individual's partner's intent and actions ("Wait, but X always seemed like such a nice person--how could X do that to you??") and/or the individual's lack of clear and obvious refusal ("You didn't tell X 'no'? Well then how could X possibly know you wanted X to stop?" [suggestion being that the raped individual is blameworthy and at fault for what he or she is experiencing because he or she did not actively stop it]).

So, if I were to share the instances in which I have felt and experienced violation and possibly rape, and make the claim that I had been violated or raped, I would be (and have been) met with accusations of not having done enough to communicate my resistance in either circumstance. The guilt would be (and has been) assigned to me and the case is closed--NO RAPIST (intent), SO NOT RAPE (impact). However, when I've shared or admitted these feelings, perceptions, and experiences, I'm not doing so to prove the guilt of another party and paint myself as victim...I'm trying to deal with some really scary and fucked up emotions--and, with our current frameworks for discussing and understanding rape, once I express them, the emotions are immediately set aside so that their validity can first be determined, and within our current frameworks that validity is reliant on my innocence and the other's guilt.

The emotions and devastation of the person who has determined that he or she has been raped (or the impact) are sometimes never addressed, and are certainly not the priority--the impact is abandoned in order to assign guilt (search for intent), and, as a result of that assignation, people experiencing the impact of rape are frequently told that the emotional devastation they're experiencing is unwarranted--that they've no right to it--that because the intent (rapist) didn't exist, the impact (rape) is something they're making a false and unfair claim to.

I recognize that there is intentional violation--some of the stories in this thread are examples of intentional violation; many instances of rape do have a rapist...I just think it's really wrong that the powerful and devastating feelings experienced after sexual violation and rape are affirmed or denied based on guilt and intent. Knowing this, countless people like myself are prevented from comfortably sharing our experiences and feelings because discussions of rape always seem to devolve into attempts to assign blame to either one party for intentionally choosing to disrespect the wishes of the other OR to the other party for not communicating those wishes clearly enough.

It has taken me a very long time to articulate to myself and to others that I have felt violated despite there being no one individual to blame. I am not at fault because some irrational part of me shuts down and dissociates from uncomfortable sexual encounters; my partners are not at fault for not being mind-readers in those situations! My feelings of violation are not dependent on someone doing something wrong. However, they are real, and, therefore, worth addressing and exploring on an individual level for the purposes of growth and healing. Furthermore, since they are so, so common, those experiences and emotional responses are worth addressing and exploring on a societal level to determine what, if not who, might cause them and how to make them less frequent.

It seems criminal to wait to be compassionate to an individual who's experienced being raped or violated until after we've proven that another party is a criminal. That compassion, support, and healing should be our response to the impact (rape), regardless of whether or not that impact was intended by someone.

tl;dr - You don't always need a rapist for rape to occur.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points ago

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I know it's a few days after you wrote this but I wanted to say that this should be at the top of the page with more for upvotes.

The fact that someone can be raped but without the person doing so intending to rape them is surely the root cause of the gap between the one group of people thinking "but most people I know would never do something like that" and the other group of people who have faced a lifetime of exactly the opposite.

Interestingly under English law, if applied properly, this situation shouldn't arise. There is a requirement to have positive consent for sex to be lawful. If I try and have sex with you and you say anything other than 'bring it on big boy' then it's rape.

Obviously it doesn't entirely work like that but the principle is an important one.

[–]wellfuckheregoes 321 points322 points ago

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Probably too late for anyone to see this. Oh well, therapy if nothing else.

I met this girl when I was 16 I think. She was a junior, I was a sophomore, but we were the same age. I had never kissed anyone before, but she was very experienced.

We hit it off and talked a lot. I remember one of our first phone conversations lasting 'til like 3 am. She talked a lot about sex, sometimes about her old boyfriend. She was gorgeous, totally my type. I had a hard crush after the first time we spoke.

Eventually we hung out after school one day, and she took me to starbucks, only we didn't actually go to starbucks. Instead, we went under a staircase in the shopping center and she kissed me.

We saw each other on and off for a few weeks. I guess we were "dating." Making out with her was fucking magic. Absolute heaven. Like I said, I had barely ever held hands with a girl, let alone made out before I met her. Best couple weeks of my life at the time.

Then, New Years Eve (I think) things got a bit heavier. We were in my bedroom in a marathon hours-long makeout session, and she takes off her shirt and offers to blow me. I accepted of course, and she went to work. I didn't get there right away though, and she was really tired, so she said she wanted to stop and sat down a little ways away. I said okay, thought for a minute, and went back over to her.

Being the genius I am, I thought "hey, I'll do the work for her!" I rolled her over, got on top, and put my dick on her face. She put it in her mouth for a second (I think, I'm honestly not sure), and I started to finger her. She had a tampon in (I guess that's why she was tired, period stuff) and she mumbled something. Much later I realized she had said "no..." very quietly.

She ran to my bed and didn't want me to touch her. I didn't understand what had happened. This hypersexual person who had offered to give me head suddenly didn't want to touch me.

Relationship went south quick, and she broke up with me soon after (if we were even dating in the first place, still not sure).

Later, I realized the big difference between what she had offered to do and what I had tried to make her do. MUCH later I realized that I had basically assaulted her, and that was why she broke up with me. (I was an overdramatic immature jerk at the time too I guess)

I still think about it sometimes, and I feel terrible. It took a very long time for me to get over her. Dated another girl immediately after for many months, wishing it was this first girl the whole time. Then I met someone who really helped me get past her. I've never done anything like that ever again, and never will. I just wish I hadn't learned that lesson in that way, and that she had to suffer for it.

[–]HeyWire17 101 points102 points ago

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Just because someone consents to one type of sexual activity, doesn't mean they consent to another.

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[–]throwitaway3885 12 points13 points ago

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I want to run something by you guys and see what you think. This thread brought up something that I haven't thought about in years.

When I was in elementary school (probably seven or eight years old?) I had this friend who was kind of crazy. She (I too am a female) was a wild child and always made me feel like a prude. One time I casually mentioned "stripping" (with only a basic understanding of what this meant) and she asked me what that was. Feeling like a hot shot for knowing something she didn't, I explained to my brother (4.5 years younger than me) what it was and asked him to do so for us. I thought of it as a joke, had no idea what sex was, clearly felt no attraction to my toddler brother, and he goofily pulled his pants down and did a little dance for us to make me laugh. I feel awful about this, and I know he remembers it, because he's brought it up jokingly once or twice, but in the sort of way where I can tell he's really embarrassed and uncomfortable by the memory. Did I abuse him? I can't even fathom that something I did as a child, with no knowledge of sex or anything like that (i don't even think I understood why people stripped--I just knew that it meant taking your clothes off and dancing) is abuse, but it is if he believes it to be--right? I don't even know how to bring it up with him because I am so ashamed, and he is such an awkward teenager especially in regards to sex and sexuality (he is now 16 and has never dated, though we believe he is interested in women). I don't know how to deal with this, and I have never told anyone, not even my mother. What do you make of it? I work with children, and the thought of anyone thinking of them sexually or touching them in any way makes me want to vomit, so this really weighs on me.

[–]ThrowItAwayNow83 10 points11 points ago

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I haven’t seen anything in this thread quite like my experience yet, so hopefully this will give some insight into the mind of an abuser. I’m going to be brutally honest, so anyone not looking to familiarize themselves with the psyche of someone who victimized others can just skip this. From age 11-16, I abused two girls from my neighborhood and two boys from my grade school during sleepovers. It’s taken me over a decade to dissect and scrutinize my motivations but I think I have finally rooted out what drove me to do these things and why I’ve always regetted doing them. I know that I was sexually abused at a very young age by my father’s cousin as a kid because my mother accidentally let it slip once a few years ago. My parents never discussed the abuse directly with me, most likely to protect my innocence. I’ve never had a healthy relationship with my parents. My father is an emotionally abusive control freak with a penchant for neglect. My mother has borderline personality disorder, but will never admit it nor seek treatment because schizophrenia runs in her family and she holds a deep resentment and mistrust of the mentally handicapped. They aren’t real people to her, just objects broken beyond repair, deserving only scorn or ridicule. My parents are hardline authoritarians who never thought to teach their children about why something is wrong, just that negative consequences would always follow wrongdoing. Their methods taught me how to tell better lies, avoid punishment, and not to question their methods. They are both self centered to the point where narcissistic personality disorder is also a likelihood, but my armchair psychology skills only go so far. I don’t ever remember getting a compliment from either of them – they preferred backhanded compliments and outright ridicule. The only times I would ever get any validation were their thinly veiled attempts at manipulation. They underestimated the perceptiveness of their own child. I learned early on how to effectively manipulate people and that people were objects to be manipulated for personal gain. This fucked up perspective was only reinforced by the culture around me. TV and movies only seemed to encourage this type of thinking. I attended a particularly horrible catholic middle school that helped instill in me guilt, shame, and fear. The school made very certain to reinforce the idea that boys and girls are fundamentally different creatures, validating my objectification of girls.

I’ve always had a hyperactive libido. I never showed much shame about my body, which was something my parents absolutely hated. I learned to repress my urges and subvert my desires. They used to separate me from girls, even if the girls were the ones showing interest in me. As a preteen with developing hormones, this was torture. Around age 11 I used to fool around with a girl from my neighborhood. She was around 7 or 8 at the time and the fact that she knew far more about sex than I did leads me to assume that she was sexually abused as well. We used to kiss and do other things, but we’d always have to hide it from our parents. One night, I decided to grope her in her sleep when she slept over. I knew it was wrong at the time but only in the sense that I would get yelled at and possibly beaten if caught. I think that is the reason I chose to do this to her while she slept. Since people – especially women – were merely objects, all that mattered was my own satisfaction. I did pretty much everything short of intercourse on several occasions. Since I was certain I had found a way to act out on my urges and avoid consequences, I also abused another girl from my neighborhood and two other boys over a span of about five years. The first girl was the only one that I did this to repeatedly. In retrospect, I’m pretty sure the boys were some twisted way to explore my own sexuality because my parents had made it all too clear that their love for me had many conditions, and turning out gay would most likely result in being disowned. In eighth grade, my mother cheated on my father, starting a divorce that lasted well over a year. I never realized just how toxic my family was before this. My parents were no longer people I felt I could respect. It was now painfully clear that they were vindictive, unapologetic liars. They passed my siblings and I back and forth like chess pieces. Whoever had the kids had power over the other. This whole situation made me question everything around me that had previously reinforced my actions and thoughts. The last time I abused anyone was just months after the divorce, when I found myself wanting to go farther than ever with this girl I had been abusing for years. I remember realizing that she was awake and that she didn’t say a word. I couldn’t bring myself to do it, but I didn’t know why. I specifically remember wanting to know why. It was the first time I ever wondered why I followed through on these terrible impulses. These thoughts eventually drove me to abandon my religion, but I had too many distractions in high school to properly follow through and examine my own blossoming morality. I capitalized on these distractions to keep me away from home and my parents out of my life. I finally recognized the potential for harm behind my actions and reacted by pushing away anyone who showed interest in me.

Moving hundreds of miles away for college was the major catalyst for change. Faced with full autonomy for the first time, I broke down and battled severe depression and feelings of self loathing. I never sought treatment because I felt as though I had earned those feelings. In fact, I still think that this is true. While in college, two events completely shattered my worldview. I began volunteering at a local prison. Dealing with the inmates helped to humanize a subset of the population that I regarded as nothing more than animals. It made me completely rethink my morality, politics, and tendency to treat people as objects. Several months of deep introspection and genuine human interaction with these inmates had helped me become exponentially more self-aware. I wanted to eliminate hypocrisy from my own ethos. I realized how predatory my own actions and thoughts had been and sought to understand and hopefully eliminate that aspect of my personality. The resulting cognitive dissonance from discovering the truth that dignity is an inherent facet of humanity and understanding that I had been conditioned to objectify everyone around me was the strongest impetus for psychological change I have ever felt. The second event that helped me realize just how dangerously misguided I had been was meeting my girlfriend. She was the first girl in my life that I could openly date without repercussion. Because of her I discovered that sex is a beautiful experience that should never be a source of shame when both parties enthusiastically consent. Before meeting her, the closest thing to a functional relationship I encountered was in movies or on TV. My parents openly resented each other for the majority of my lifetime, and outright hated each other after the divorce. I had never trusted anyone prior to meeting her. The progress that I made during this time was astounding to me. One of my proudest moments in college – the moment that I knew that I had gained complete control over my predatory nature – was the night one of my best friends decided to take a heroic dose (five hits) of acid and down several bars of Xanax. She somehow found her way to my house and I had to babysit her during her trip. She eventually passed out in my bed whereas I ended up watching TV and falling asleep a few hours later on my fouton. I didn’t realize until the following week that it had never occurred to me to do anything to her. Less than a decade before that, I would have fantasized about such a situation. Now, the mere thought of it makes me sick to my stomach.

I had successfully managed to scrutinize and dismantle my own socialization and build a new, healthy perspective. What I thought to be a sickeningly incurable part of my nature was actually a set of learned responses resulting from my lack of understanding of my impulses and a toxic environment that enabled me to mold myself into a monster. I still struggle with depression, self esteem, and severe self loathing but, as I said earlier, I’ve done more than enough to earn those issues. I think that rape – from the most disturbing accounts of incest to the drunk who won’t take no for an answer – comes from a deep seated lack of respect for others’ humanity. I’d imagine that any adult who rapes someone gets off on either the destruction of their victim’s innocence or their own power and sense of control over the other person. I’d go even further and assume that these rapists have never earnestly examined their own thought processes and desires nor have they challenged themselves to find the genesis of these sick impulses. No matter the case, confronting your own destructive thoughts is a painful ordeal. However, I do know that this can help a person understand and ultimately eliminate such impulses and that rape is definitely a serious enough crime to warrant fundamental psychological and philosophical change. It took firsthand experience with evidence contradictory to my own warped perspective to effect true change. However, it was a change I had desired for my entire life but did not have the means to realize that I wanted. I didn’t understand my motivations at the time of my actions, but I’ve always regretted them more than anything else. I don’t want to get over it – that regret is a constant reminder of the depths of my own depravity. Nothing I can do could ever make up for it. I’ll probably die by my own hand someday, but until then I will do what I can to prevent anyone else from having a similarly fucked up childhood. I’d sooner kill myself than deprive anyone of their dignity ever again.

[–][deleted] ago

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[–]ACE_C0ND0R 385 points386 points ago

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Maybe he was worried about being arrested for statutory rape.

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[–]igg14 23 points24 points ago

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A relatively famous case from a few years back is the Genarlow Wilson case, which is much worse than what you described. He was consensual oral sex (nothing further) with his girlfriend. He was 17; she was 15. He was convicted of aggravated child molestation and sentenced to 10 years in prison (and required to be on a registry for life, which bars him from things like being with his own relatives alone, etc.). The legislature changed the law to make what he did a misdemeanor, but didn't make it retroactive so he couldn't be released. Finally, a higher court lowered his crime and ordered he be released but the Attorney General appealed that rulingl which meant that he had to stay in jail until the State Supreme Court finally ruled his punishment cruel and unusual (by only a 4-3 margin).

tl;dr - Georgia have fucked up laws and a fucked up Attorney General.

[–]MegatronXbgol 22 points23 points ago

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He was black and the girl was white..not trailer park white either she was middle class suburban white. You know how the whites hate black football players fucking white girls.

[–]gruesome2some 69 points70 points ago

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If he knew you were a virgin there's always the possibility that he wanted to be absolutely sure you were ready. When I was 17 I was dating a girl that was 15 and also a virgin. I was completely ready and wanted her immensely. Even after she told me she wanted to have sex I made her wait another couple weeks to be sure she had thought it through and it wasn't just a heat of the moment decision. Don't beat yourself up.

[–]no1elsehasthisname 13 points14 points ago

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realized it was possible for an 18 year old guy to not want to have sex (with me).

Speaking as a guy, it's possible for guys to not want to have sex, period. Its not always the girl, sometimes the guys just don't want to. This is one stereotype that really kills me, having a penis does not mean I'm horny, it just means I'm male.

This made high school hell for me because I felt like everyone was expecting me to sleep with tons of girls. Due to social awkwardness and a penchant for being silent in crowds I came out of high school a virgin and I couldn't be happier about it.

[–]demons_sins 60 points61 points ago

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I have been a victim advocate for several years now. I have seen men and women struggle with recovering from a sexualt assult. If you have been sexually assulted please see a therapist. Please get yourself some help you dont have to fight this alone.

[–]shamefulthrowaway765 307 points308 points ago

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I'm a woman, I raped a man.

The sex, as in the penetration, was consensual. We had been seeing each other for a little while, and had sex a few times. Things were going great.

Now, he had told me before that he didn't feel right cumming in women. He didn't like the idea - his brother had been lied to about a woman being on the pill, and now had a child he was not old enough or stable enough to raise. So the guy I was dating at the time always wanted to pull out and cum, even though I had given him proof that I was on the pill. I thought this was fair, we always did what he wanted with that.

I completely ignored this request of his one time. Worse, I ignored him completely at the time..

I was on top of him, consensual as I said. I got really, really into it.. so did he. Normally when he was close to cumming, he'd ask me to slow down (and I would, so he could pull out and cum somewhere else of his choice) or he would pull me off if there was no time to speak. This time, however, I was being really aggressive and forceful - he liked that, as in a sexual act, the domination. He had told me this before. He loved women being aggressive in bed, and he was definitely loving it now. I took it too far.

So I was speeding up. I heard him say 'Oh.. No.. please.. I'm going to cum.. slow down.. no'. That was a proper no. I knew he liked being dominated, but we hadn't discussed safewords yet - no still meant no. It very much meant no. I knew it meant no.

I didn't. I didn't slow down, I didn't stop.

Incase anyone will bring this up - No, he didn't try to pull me off, but that means fucking nothing. Fucking nothing. He'd said no, I should have gotten off. The force at which I had been going means it wouldn't have been easy even though I'm quite small. The guy was close to an orgasm, organizing himself to pull me off would have been damn near impossible.

I'll try to tell you what was going though my head.

'Fuck, this is good. Heh, he's playing with me, he likes being dominated. So hot'. At that moment in time, I felt fucking great. I ignore him, outright. That's all. That's all.

It's not that I forgot that he didn't want to cum inside me. It's not that I didn't hear that no. There, in the heat of the moment, I just assumed he was into it. At that moment in time, I really believed my own justifications. I told myself he was enjoying it, really. Screw his 'no'. Cum inside me. That's hot.

That changed the moment he had cum, and I had gotten off of him.

It hit me the moment I was sitting on the bed. What did I just.. do? I looked at him, and he was looking bewildered. I had no idea what to say, or what to do. I managed to blurt out a 'A... are you okay?'. He looked at me, put on the saddest fake smile I've ever seen, looked down and said 'Please.. please just keep taking that pill'.

I cracked then. I ran to the bathroom. I thought I was going to throw up. I was disgusted at myself. I knew his wishes. He had said no, and I'd ignored it. When someone says no, you get off or stop right the fuck there and then. I didn't.

When I came back, he looked at me with shock and asked me if I was okay. I sat down on the bed, quite far away from him - I didn't think he'd want me near him - and he pulled me closer. That's when I realised.. he didn't even know he had just been raped.

I didn't point this out to him. I never have.

We're still together. We stayed together. I feel disgust every day for what I did. It's always in my mind. He has started to cum inside me of his own accord, even.. We had more of a talk about our opinions on pregnancy or if an accident happens. He trusts me more when it comes to that. And he can - he honestly can.

But at the time, he didn't trust me. He didn't know he could. He had limitations. I completely ignored them, and I had raped him. And him being a man, and me being a woman.. he didn't even realise it. He stuffed down how awful he felt. He must have convinced himself that I did nothing wrong.

But I did. He said no.

I hope someone.. even just one person.. reads this.. I want someone to read this confession. Thank you for reading.

[–]Puppy_stomper 109 points110 points ago

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If you guys have been together long enough, if there is enough trust, tell him. Tell him how you feel about that night. Apologize. If he had started becoming comfortable with finishing inside you after the incident, then chances are he will be alright if you approach him on the subject.

[–]operratic 9 points10 points ago

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Seconded. This can heal a lot for both of you. The fact that you will never do anything like this again will also help. Believe in yourself.

[–][deleted] 87 points88 points ago

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I feel disgust every day for what I did. It's always in my mind.

If he's forgiven you and is still with you, it's time for you to forgive yourself.

Talk to him about it. Even though you crossed a boundary you probably shouldn't have, I don't think he'd want you beating yourself up about it still.

[–]guysmiley00 29 points30 points ago

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Sometimes I wonder if not forgiving yourself can actually be a good thing. We like to think that only bad people do bad things, and that, since we're good people, we, by definition, can't do bad stuff. That's obviously untrue. There's no inherent quality that makes the violation of others impossible. In fact, one thing people generally seem to be extremely good at is rationalizing situations in which they may have violated others. A terrible act is always different when we do it.

Goodness isn't an inherent quality; it's a daily, hourly, moment-by-moment decision to respect the rights of others as much as possible. Nothing prevents the saint from sinning except the constant decision not to do so, and we tend to forget that, because it's frightening. We don't want to believe we can be monsters. I think we've all had a moment where we've run up hard against that realization, a moment where we've thought, "My God, what have I done?" or "My God, what was I about to do?". And it's terrifying, because it strikes at the heart of our identity and even threatens our survival. If bad people do bad things, after all, and you've done a bad thing, you're a bad person, and should therefore remove yourself from the company of good people before you do any further harm. That way madness lies.

Obviously, if this incident is torturing OP to the extent of disrupting her life, she needs to deal with it. And maybe one can forgive without forgetting. But I do see value in holding onto those moments of clarity, because they can be valuable checks on the human tendency to let the ego drive our behaviour. If you know that you, like everyone else, are only one decision away from becoming something you would despise, you've got that much more motivation to keep a careful eye on what you're about. Knowing you're a step away from the abyss is the first requirement for not tumbling into it.

[–]shamefulthrowawayacc 44 points45 points ago

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After reading through this thread, I came to a lot of very startling and hard realizations regarding my own fucked-up sexual behavior regarding my boyfriend and oral sex.

I'm a girl, and I have not always respected the consent of my partner. In the past, I've never been with a guy who didn't want to go down on me -- quite the opposite, in that all have verbally asked permission/begged to do so, and I was more than happy to say yes (it's by far one of my favorite things to experience).

I'm currently with my boyfriend of two years, whom I deeply care for. However, I don't think oral sex is really his cup of tea, which was very bewildering to me for a long time (since this is previously unheard of with all my previous sexual encounters). I would beg and plead with him to go down on me, and if that didn't work I'd become very self-conscious about my body, since I didn't know why else he'd not want to. I'd think it was because of a taste or smell or how I looked. I made sure to shave and wash myself in and out and then we'd fool around and I'd ask him again.

Eventually it got to the point where I was badgering him incessantly about it, and wouldn't take no for an answer, or else I'd begin to cry which would make him feel bad. I don't think I cried with that intent; I was frustrated and my body image issues would resurface and I was very selfish -- I just wanted to feel good, and I didn't care that he didn't want to do it in that way. I went down on him all the time, so I didn't understand why he couldn't return the favor. I tried to justify it in my head with "Once he sees how good it makes me feel, he'll want to continue", "If I can just get him past his first misgivings, everything will be okay", "He owes me, since I went down on him", "No one has ever disliked it before, it's his problem -- not mine!". Really fucked up thoughts, especially since this is towards someone I like. Just reading that over makes my stomach twist. Many times he'd give in and although I'd finish, I could tell he wasn't into it at all. This pattern of behavior (begging, crying, relinquishing) continued for some time until I realized how manipulative and selfish I was being. There are so many wonderful qualities in him... the happiness he gives me wasn't worth losing over this.

For the past 6-8 months or so, I haven't asked him or guilted him to go down on me, and a few weeks back he asked if I'd like that and I told him yes. It was so much better this time, and our sexual/overall relationship has really benefited from me not being such an asshole. After realizing (through this thread and talking with him) that my behavior was very unhealthy and unjustifiable, I feel horrified that I couldn't see this myself. I haven't ever said to him what I wrote above, but maybe I'll show it to him when I'm ready to. I hope when he reads it... I dunno, that I'll be absolved in some way.

[–]thwathwathwa 412 points413 points ago

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Interesting idea for a thread. I thought reading stories from rapists would make me angry, but what actually made me angry was opening this thread and finding it full of stories from guys who’ve been accused of rape, then explained to us how unfair it was that the girl gave them all the signals, didn’t say no, then ran to her friends and cried rape. The OP didn’t ask for false rape accusations. The OP didn’t ask for stories from rape victims. He asked for stories from rapists.

I remember reading a story here that almost made me cry. It was in a “dark secrets” thread. A guy who committed rape (and was never accused, let alone convicted) told his tale. It was a few years ago now, and he understood what he’d done. It was a guy studying abroad I think, and was kissing and cuddling with a girl in her room. When he tried to go further she repeatedly pushed him away. He didn’t stop. He even locked the door when her friends tried to get in and stop him. He said something like “I’m sobbing as I write this”. I genuinely felt sorry for that guy. Of course, I feel sorry for his victim too, but I really believed he understood what he’d done and would never do it again.

To girl who responded that she’s been in the situation more than once when she’s gotten wasted and had sex. You added, “I never blamed the guy”. Blamed him for what? What’s to blame anyone for when it’s consenting sex between two adults? Are you trying to reassure the guys? You got a lot of points for it, telling them what they want to hear. Or are you trying to reassure yourself?

To the people asking why women don’t say no, and the guy saying girls need to realise how much stronger guys are. They DO realise how strong men are, and this is why they don’t say no. They are scared to, because they think they will get hurt even more if they resist. Just don’t say no, it’s over faster, and you can even try to convince yourself it wasn’t rape because you didn’t say no! Women don’t let men get close because they believe they could fight them off if they want to. They get close because they trust them. And we all trust the wrong people sometimes.

I do believe there’s guys out there who have no intention of committing rape, and don’t realise they’re committing rape because the girl (or guy) doesn’t say no. But it’s still rape. Consent means yes, not silence. I once had a guy ask me, “are you sure you want to do this?”. He was my boyfriend at the time and I guess I didn’t seem that into it. So he asked me. He didn’t just assume. And I said yes, and started making more effort :)

To the guy at the top of the thread; it must have been horrible to look up and see that girl was petrified. Some guys in your situation would have said “it’s too hard for a guy to stop now”. It’s sad to see so many people angry at the girl and her friend and listing the “signals” she gave. Well I guess that girl learnt an important lesson about how flirting might be mistaken for consent to sex. I don’t flirt with guys I don’t know. I’m one of the women you don’t see. I don’t go on wild nights out. I don’t let guys chat me up. I will never let a stranger buy me a drink because it might give him the wrong “signal”. Yet many of you will base your opinions of women on the ones who are most visible. The ones who attract the most attention and post all their drama on facebook. But I will still pay the price for it. I still get cat calls. I still get accosted by men who are angry at “women” and ask me “why do women do that, huh?”. I’ve been groped just walking down the street. But the vast majority of men treat me with respect. I like men. I have lots of male friends. I rarely date. But I’ve never been raped. And I admire the attention whores for living life the way they want. For not letting fear rule them.

So, back to the guys who’ve posted their many stories of drunken sex, preceded by “signals”, without the word no. Why did you post in this thread? This thread that asked for rapists’ stories, so what made you think of adding yours? Is it because deep down, you suspect that if you’d looked up, you’d have seen that the reason she wasn’t saying no was because she was afraid to? Because she was too drunk to realise what’s happening? We can make a million and one excuses. But at my age (mid-thirties) I’ve realised that even good people can do bad things, even if they don’t intend to. And we believe what we want to believe.

To anyone who’s read all this – thanks. I’m usually a silent lurker, but I guess this time I wanted to add a perspective that I felt wasn’t being represented.

[–]goosie7 123 points124 points ago

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With regard to what you said about the "signs" that girl was giving,

What so many men don't seem to understand about girls and sex (and especially young, inexperienced girls) is that there is no signal that means "I want to have intercourse with you" except for explicitly saying that. If a girl is reacting positively and provocatively to you, that means that what is happening right now is ok, and maybe the next step. You can't just see that she's into it and decide "all systems go", pass Go collect $200, and be surprised when at some point along the way she stopped being ok. Most young girls don't go into a sexual encounter knowing how far they want to go or where the line is. All they know is "I like this right now, this is ok with me" and "I don't feel ok with this".

If you're having an intimate encounter with someone, it's your job to be keeping tabs on whether or not they're ok with how things are progressing. Anything she did beforehand becomes meaningless.

[–]Carpathicus 27 points28 points ago

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you should post more :) I enjoyed your well thought post. Sexuality sure is a strange thing. Most posts are about encounter between teenagers or early twenties and it feels like there is a lot confusion and a lot of misunderstanding involved. Signals is one of those keywords all over this thread and I guess that it is vital to learn to communicate in an honest and open way. Being shy can't be the excuse and you should really "get" a person before you engage in sexual activities with him/her.

[–]Chapsticklover 12 points13 points ago

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Thank you for posting this. You've summed up a lot of things very well.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points ago

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What a nicely written post. Thank you so much for writing this.

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[–]Solkre 604 points605 points ago

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Ducktape them up, then FORCE THEM TO SNUGGLE!

[–]MichaelKoban 432 points433 points ago

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"But I want sex!"

"No! We are snuggling!"

"NNNOOOOOOOOO!"

[–]Gbjar2 121 points122 points ago

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Fuck you, now I laughed during the rape thread.

[–]citadelspace 147 points148 points ago

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"It was horrible! She just laid there caressing my hair with occasional pecks on the cheek. I...I'm just not the same."

[–]ifragginlovetoast 71 points72 points ago

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I can confirm that this is a great role play idea.

[–]segfault7375 67 points68 points ago

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Struggle snuggle!

[–]bbctol 10 points11 points ago

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Dominant snuggling is absolutely the best form of BDSM. Make him your cuddlebitch.

[–]shaun-shaun 44 points45 points ago

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so after reading some of these comments: -we might need to teach men how to "not rape" women, instead of focusing on teaching women to "not get raped".

in most medical cases, a doctor should treat the illness, not the symptom. it might be the same way with rape, focusing on safer ways to play out the scenario without a victim?

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[–]RageGodReed 734 points735 points ago

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Shitty friends, shitty deal

[–]FromaLand 248 points249 points ago

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[–]MinorThreat89 60 points61 points ago

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not sure how the friends would have helped anyway

[–]ConkerBirdy 102 points103 points ago

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That doesnt look too painful to be honest. At least his head seemed to be on the mattress.

[–]Kowzz 187 points188 points ago

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Looks like he broke his arm.

[–]Banana_Party 10 points11 points ago

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He? reviews video

[–]mrrrrrow 25 points26 points ago

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I would just like to post a plea to the people here who have expressed remorse - even if you don't feel like you can apologise to your victim, you can still do a lot of good. Please speak to the next generation. There are young people and teenagers growing up right now who will make the same mistakes. We have the most appalling attitude towards sex education in general, but boys and girls need to know that 'stranger rape' is not the most common form of rape. They need to know that these situations do happen.

Tell the young men1 in your life your story (sanitised as much as seems necessary). Tell them how your situation arose, why you kept going without consent, what it meant to you afterwards, how you've come to your position of remorse. Ask them how they would feel if that was their sister, friend, mother, and to remember that every girl2 is someone's sister, friend, daughter.

If you can, go into schools and colleges and tell your story. Contact self-defence and sexual assault prevention groups for help on outreach.

Although some of the posts in this thread are beyond what I can bring myself to read, I do think that the conversation needs to happen. The only way to truly prevent rape is to teach people not to rape.

1 I acknowledge that not all rapists are men, but they overwhelmingly are. And obviously not all men are rapists.

2 Ditto not all victims are women.

[–]Rios5 28 points29 points ago

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I've read all of your posts, and now more than ever I'm torn between crying and punching a wall. My little bubble of ignorance has been burst recently, when a guy broke into my friends apartment trying to rape her. I've always thought I could fight off someone- I work out and I have a bad habit of looking like a bat-shit crazy bitch when I go to the pub. But listening to you, especially you guys, I'm just scared more than ever. While I know that a rapist is going to jump out of every bush I pass, I hate knowing that no matter how hard I train or how mean I look, there will still be people larger and stronger than me and those I love that can hurt me

[–]onepostaccount2012 23 points24 points ago

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As my user name suggests, I created this account just for the purpose of making this one post. A bit about me, I'm a college-age white American male whom most people find charming and extremely caring and generally nice and fun to be around. By the grace of God Above I never raped anyone, but there are a couple sexual assaults and some other stuff I regret that I detail below. Lots of men say they're appalled at the idea of rape and could never even understand how someone could be turned on by it, and well I don't know how genuine most of them are being, but for me the fact that I've never raped anyone is due much more to a choice not to do it than a lack of desire on my part to do it. First three paragraphs have explanations of what happened; fourth has my feelings on it now; fifth has my understanding of why I did it.

The first really bad thing I did was at a party and met a girl I thought was cute. This happened in New York state maybe four years ago. I was pretending to myself to be more drunk than I was. I had gotten handsy without her permission earlier in the night and she responded positively, though in hindsight this was clearly not because she liked it, but instead because she was passive and afraid to say anything. Eventually I think she told me to stop and I think I did for a while. I later found out that she was vomiting in the bathroom so I went to go check on her and apologize; this was honestly my only intent on entering the bathroom. She said, "you can feel me up some more if you want," and I'm not sure when I switched from checkup mode to sex assault mode, but I did, even though she was bent over the toilet vomiting. Eventually I ended up taking out my penis and putting her hand on it. She said "no" or "stop" but I didn't. She was too drunk even to remove her forehead from the toilet seat. Then I asked her if I could do more and she said "no" and that time I realized I was doing something bad and I pulled back. Never saw or talked to her again; I don't even know her name but I think it's something along the lines of "Allie." I think she was going to college the next year. (I give that info. and the fact that it happened in NY in hope that she will read it and recognize it. Honestly this hope is as much a vain and selfish one that I might somehow get some forgiveness out of this as it is a hope that something might come of this that would help her cope. More on that in a second.)

The second one was another groping, basically this girl flirted with me a little bit, and I pushed it further, grabbed her tits and her ass, repeatedly after she asked me to stop. I misinterpreted her not removing herself physically as her really wanting it, rather than what it probably was--like the other girl, she felt unable to stand up for herself. This time the physical contact was less serious--only groping--but I kept going and going after she told me verbally to stop multiple times. This event happened at a soccer field in Carolina around the same time and her name was Christina.

Finally, other things that I don't count as sexual assault but will illuminate the story: My first girlfriend and I were totally in love, and when for the first time she told me there were problems in the relationship, I responded by crying and trying to talk to her, and when that didn't get me the result I wanted (which if I had bothered to articulate it would have been something along the lines of an immediate declaration that it was all okay after all and there had never been any problem), out of nowhere I started kissing her and undressing her, and we eventually ended up having sex. She didn't resist or say no and in fact helped with the undressing and got on top during the sex, but she later (months later) told me it was the only time she'd ever been having sex with me when she didn't want to be. I don't feel that this qualifies as sexual assault because she soberly told me, verbally, that she did want to have sex. Again, she just felt uncomfortable rejecting a man who wanted something of her. (The reason I tell this story along with the others should be clear by the end of the last paragraph.) And the final story which is not sexual at all but again fits in is that around age 15 I once physically attacked my mother. Again, after I hit her in the face a few times I realized what I was doing and I stopped.

Anyways I feel fucking terrible about all these things. I can't describe the disgust I feel with myself so I won't try. But worst of all is that I want more than anything else to be forgiven for it, especially (as my unconscious mind has somehow twisted it into seeming like it would be more significant) by one of the girls in question or someone who has experienced something similar, but I feel so fucking selfish for wanting that because how the fuck can I be concerned about my needs when I'm the one whose whole fucking fault it was. And as far as talking about it goes I've told a couple people, one of them the girlfriend in the third story after she told me what that was like for her. Both of them had gone through some variant of rape and they both said the same thing, to let it go and forgive myself, but I can just never believe it when I hear something like that. An example of this feeling is that one of my closest friends is a girl (who drives a car with flames on the side) who once in a moment of drunkenness told me she had been raped, something I believe she had never told anyone else. The next day or so I told her, "remember that thing you mentioned, if you ever want to talk about that, I'm here." She said it meant a lot and never mentioned it again. Flash forward to when our friendship's becoming a bit strained, and she charges that I only care about myself in the friendship (which I would say from a detached perspective is not entirely true, though I realize exactly how low my credibility probably is by this point). My retaliation included something along the lines of, "Remember that one time I offered to listen to you about that thing? I wasn't being selfish then." I was so wrapped up in wanting to be forgiven for what I had done (which was here manifesting not as being forgiven per se because I've never told her about that, but as me being her confidant, which I thought of as a sort of redemption), that I ended up guilting her for not talking to me about it. I immediately felt terrible about guilting her for it but the kicker is that I couldn't bring myself to apologize for it because that would entail in part me assuaging my guilt for using that occurrence for my own needs. I knew that any conversation I had apologizing for that would at least carry a component of that need-fulfillment for me, and I therefore felt too guilty to do anything about it even if apologizing was actually the right thing to do (which I still don't know if it is, because she seems not to want to talk about it at all, and I don't want to bring it up again).

Anyways on to why I reckon I did all these things: The classic explanation for rapists is that it's not about sex, it's about power. I reckon that's pretty true in my case. But I don't think most rapists are just psychopaths for whom power is the most fundamental need being addressed. Instead, the need for power is rooted in a deeper need for love. In my experience the most powerless feeling there is (and I recognize fully how this sounds on a thread about rape, I'm just talking about my own experience)is the feeling of not being loved by someone you want to love you. Whether it's a friend or your girlfriend or your mother, it's just the most powerless feeling when you once had someone's love and you feel there's nothing you can do to get it back. You try to reason with them and then you shout at them and when none of that has the power to change their minds the last possible recourse you have that you hope can have any influence or power over them whatsoever is violence. So I have often felt like I wanted to beat up a friend or girlfriend when we were fighting (I should note that aside from the one time with my mom I've never hit anyone woman or man against their will), but that's not because I don't love them, it's because I do, and I don't know how else to try and influence them. I'm trying my fucking hardest not to grow up into a wife abuser. So it's a very natural step in the male psychology (female too, but due to cultural conditioning this seems to manifest much more in men) to go from these individual instances of urges towards violence as a way of expressing the need to be loved, into a distortion of this feeling into a general application of violence as the primary way of relating to people when what you really want is love, to love and to be loved. (And this violence doesn't always have to manifest as sexual assault or rape but really anything where you gain power over someone else. I've even noticed this feeling even for example in the case of stealing from people, that it's an exertion of power and control over them. (Also I don't steal from people anymore and have never stolen from my friends. It was mostly ever just petty shit not because I wanted the thing but because I enjoyed the act of stealing.)) So I think it's there that you can find the psychological roots of the need some people have to exert power over other people. I guess the takeaway is firstly be forgiving because most people aren't psychopaths and secondly, and most importantly, make sure you always try your hardest to show your love for the people you love, especially if those people are your children because Lord knows they need it from you.