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RE: Question about "leaving your king in check"  bogin
 Jun 01, 2007 10:48 PDT 
I am not sure why this has become a big deal.
   
If you leave your king in check, move your king into check, or move another of your pieces that inadvertently puts your own king in check then you allow your opponent to capture your king with their next move. If they do this then the game is over and your lose. Any of the above cases might
involve moves that are technically "legal" but that is completely irrelevant. Unless, you are playing a learning game or casual game and allowing "matta" (take-back moves) then the game is over. End of story.
   
I guess it is possible that for whatever reason that your opponent will not take your king and thus the game could continue on if you did not say anything but I think that this is highly unlikely and would never occur in any kind of official game.
   
In shogi there are illegal moves called "kinjite".
   
These basically are the types of kinjite that the JSR list on their homepage. They all lead to an instant loss.
   
1. Ni Fu: Dropping another fu (pawn) on the same file that already has one of your fus on it.
   
2. Uchi Fu Tsume: Mating your opponent's king by dropping a fu. That is the fu drop is the mating move.
   
3. Renzoku Oute: If you make consecutive checks with the same piece then you lose. This is not the same thing as sennichite was leads to a restart with reverse colors. You can cannot claim sennichite by making consecutive checks.
   
4. Ikidokoro no nai tokoro ni koma o utsu: If you drop a piece onto a square where it has no legal moves then you lose. So, for example, if you drop a knight somewhere on your opponents first of second ranks then the knight would not have a legal move. So, you lose.
   
5. 2 te sashi: If you make two consecutive moves then you lose.
   
6. Oute hochi: If you leave your king in check you lose.
   
Doing any of the above means you lose the game.
   
They are handled differently than the way that illegal moves are handled in chess. Maybe that is why it gets confusing for people not too familiar with shogi. They are trying to compare it to what they know about chess. Which is maybe what happened with the Fairbain book. Shogi is not chess so
at some point trying to compare it to chess no longer works. I have never met any Japanese shogi player (who know the rules) who did not worried about whether this was a legal move or not.   
   
If you make an illegal move in an official chess game then usually what happens is that the TD or whomever is in charge will asses some kind of penalty. If I remember correctly this penalty is usually the in the form of a time reduction. While leaving your king in check is considered an illegal
move in chess, I do not believe it leads to an immediate loss. Your opponent can't capture your king with their next move (unless you are talking about blitz chess or something like that).
   
   
There are also some other ways to lose.
   
-taking back moves or "matta" also leads to an immediate loss. When you take a move back technically you are making two consecutive moves so you lose.
   
-you try for jishogi but you do not have enough pieces on the board or in hand to get 24 or more points. In that case you lose.
   
- time forfeits in games that use a clock..
   
- your opponent mates you.

Anyone can make a mistake and play a kinjite. It happens to even the pros. There is really no penalty other than the loss. But, if is you are purposely playing these type of moves just to gain time or to annoy your opponent then that is considered very bad manners. "Matta" in particular is
considered to be pretty rude. Pros have been fined or temporarily suspended from participating in tournaments for pulling a "matta".
   
The reason why some people have had their ids revoked at sites like SC24 is that they are habitual rule violators. They have had numerous complaints about their behaviour made by other members. Someone who leaves their king in check once or twice by mistake is probably OK. But, when people do it
simply annoy their opponents then they risk having their id cancelled.
   
Bill Gaudry

Aquinas-@hotmail.com wrote:

So, aside from issues regarding manner (which, of course, are
important), there is no differenc in practice whether "leaving one's
king in check" is technically illegal or not, because the person who
leaves his king in check may lose anyway, as his opponent can capture
his king in the very next move, correct?





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