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[–]bigdamhero 19 points20 points

I am curious as to what you think an "internet army" can do with the anger, that will actually have any effect on the real world. You won't see a successful boycott on internet, you just won't in a world so heavily dependent on constant connectivity. You say the time for emails and letters is over, but aside from forming mobs and breaking in to company owned facilities to raze them to the ground, I just can't see any action that can be taken that will even make such a corporation flinch.

I am not saying that nothing needs to be done, only questioning what a group of any size could hope to accomplish against a private enterprise with deep pockets, a pseudo monopolistic power stance, and a limp-dicked legislature that eliminates judicial recourse.

(I have my long term plans to be part of "the solution" on many fronts, but I just see no value in "banding together" to shout at a brick wall)

[–]VeritasExMachina[S] 15 points16 points

I understand where you're coming from. In many ways, you're right. Shouting at a brick wall will do nothing. That's why the letters and emails don't work. An Internet black out won't work either for precisely the reason you listed.

So what's my answer?

We have power. More than we're supposed to believe we have. Our apathy, indifference, and fear keeps us from action. We have even more power together than we ever have individually. Why not try and come together under this common cause? Why not try and fight back? Why not destroy their infrastructure, picket their buildings, protest in the city square? Why not fight?

The solution is to stop staring at our toes and whimpering "stop that...please". Our enemy has taken extreme measures to control us, bind us, rob us of our freedom. My answer to them is that we will need to take extreme action as well. We will fight and suffer the consequences of that fight. We will MAKE THEM UNDERSTAND that we will not lie down and let the greatest medium for exchange and communication be subverted and twisted to their corporate image. We will fight for truth, freedom, and neutrality.

I understand where you're coming from. I ask that you move beyond yourself. Come with me. Let's take back what is ours.

[–]bigdamhero 14 points15 points

I will point out that I am more the type to corrupt the system from the inside to achieve my goals. After finals are done I plan to spend some of my (barely existent) free time doing some research into the difficulties of seeking judicial action. I am trying to determine whether it would be possible to gain standing for a citizen suit against the FCC seeking an injunction to redine ISPs as common carriers, thus placing them under their regulatory scheme. The difficulties as I see them thus far are 1) showing standing - which is difficult to do in these sorts of actions, and 2) showing the economic/speech restricting effects of failing to do so cause imminent and serious endangerment. I don't know enough about standing in citizen suits like this, nor do I know the court's take on free speech abridgment by private institutions as harm or endangerment. A lot to research before I can even say that it'd be a possibility, and for all I know it is being attempted as we speak.

The problem with actions outside of the established system is that picketing, protesting, etc. will likely have no effect so long as the company is receiving enough money to make their shareholders happy. Remember when Chic-Fil-A was protested and picketed for discriminatory policies and anti marriage equality activities? The response from the other side was strong enough to offset the financial losses and so long as they did't lose money they didn't give 2 shits about the bad PR they suffered.

"Destroying infrastructure" is a poor choice as well, in fact it is that very infrastructure that must exist to allow alternatives to arise. I may be mistaken but I believe that the EU partly enforces neutrality and competition among providers by forcing established providers to allow use of existing infrastructure by other providers. Also, when you cross the line from protest to destruction of property it doesn't take much to lose the moral high ground.

I am an avid supporter of net neutrality, I am dedicated to protecting speech and all civil rights. The America that I love and respect has been sick and dying for a long time. But I feel in order to revive her, we need the precision of a surgeon rather than loudness of a chainsaw to remove the "tumors" that are killing her.

*edit; I am aware that this comment contains opinions and examples that verge on hyperbole, but I am the son a preacher who is in the midst of a legal education (born into one bullshit, training in a another HA)... so this is how I best articulate what I'm thinking when passionate about a subject.

[–]silverpaw1786 3 points4 points

FYI, judicial action is tough here. The bar to changing agency positions (like they are doing on net neutrality) is low under Fox I and Fox II. In stark contrast the bar on compelling an agency to act is very high. You would want to begin your research by reading Massachusetts v. EPA and maybe Heckler v. Chaney.

[–]bigdamhero 2 points3 points

Thanks for the tips it nice to have a starting point, from what I have casually read I imagined that it would be quite difficult to compel and agency to act, I just haven't yet had much opportunity to explore the standards directly.

[–]Stand4Logic 2 points3 points

Simply put, the only effective solution is to petition the White House. In the wording of the petition let it be known that if this kind of corruption persist we the people will vote out every current politician in Washington as well as any of their family members who may run for office in the future. Then continue to fire everyone in every branch until this shit gets resolved. Honestly corruption is so rampant that nearly our entire government needs to be replaced any way. The petition will serve as a warning that can't be ignored. If they had to respond to Bieber. They'll have to publicly respond to this, effectively advertising it to the rest of the country.

[–]bigdamhero 1 point2 points

Empty threats and they know it, the largest demographic of voters in the country also happens to be the least concerned with net neutrality and related issues... the older generations. Petitions don't accomplish anything unless those recieving the petition genuinely believe that the petitioners can and will follow through with their threats. The problem is systemic for sure, gerrymandering and ignorance keeping the wrong people in power, but it is still a problem of the representatives capable of making changes not being willing or able to do so and not being held accountable for such failures.

This is why from my perspective, if the legislative branch won't act, the next logical approach is to to go judicial.

[–]NevaehsAshes 2 points3 points

I am a 40 year old male from Southern Ga. I have never gotten involved in any form of demonstration, but this is too much. I am going to raise my voice against this in whatever ways I can, because when this fight is over I will have to live with my actions OR NONACTIONS.

[–]lloyd_blankfein 0 points1 point

Amen brother. "Let it not be said that we did nothing."

[–]Stand4Logic 2 points3 points

I agree with your perspective as well. Why can't we take this on at all possible fronts.

[–]AustNerevar 0 points1 point

One thing I like about you is that, even though you're expressing your doubts, is that you aren't presenting them in a condescending or angry manner. Too many people on Reddit mock people in movements like this or RestoreTheFourth.

Making fun of the movement doesn't help anyone. I would rather those people just get a life and stay off these subreddits. Hopefully the mods here will remove those kind of posts.

The last thing we need to do here is start fighting with each other. Even if some of us think a certain decision by the majority is ineffective, other than voicing our concerns politely and trying to strengthen ourselves where we think we need it, fighting about it will just weaken and destroy us. To be strong on the outside, we have to be certain that our core is strong.

[–]VeritasExMachina[S] 1 point2 points

I absolutely support your initiative and dedication to the cause. In truth I believe we need both the precision and the overt action in order to truly enact change. The more attention we bring to this situation, the more people will have to listen. We will bombard them with noise and transmit clear, concise signals through that noise that will do the real damage in the end.

We need each other, my friend. I need you to take those precise actions. You need me to bring attention and make some noise. It matters not our methods, as long as we share a common goal. We will return our Internet and our Country to a place of truth, freedom, and neutrality.

Thank you for taking the time to consider these actions and for taking the initiative on your own. But none of us need to stand alone in this. We will go into the dark night together and come out the other side victorious. We cannot afford to lose.

[–]daemonika -2 points-1 points

His question was "how" you would you go about this and your answer was to "MAKE THEM UNDERSTAND"....? Your response literally offered no solutions other than to literally raid their corporations, which is pretty ridiculous in this day and age. This is probably an unpopular opinion on this subreddit but imo you're just talking out of your ass.

[–]Stand4Logic 0 points1 point

First of all let me say this would be a last case scenario ,but the internet (the ability to communicate with most of humanity) is easily the most democratic way of observing and serving humanity in all of its forms, and communicating ideas is at stake. I would not rule out any ideas. All options should be on the table against ultimately what would lead to not only .......... Fuck this, entertainment companies should never interrupt anyone's ability to communicate period. Let us try and do this the democratic way.

[–]liquidcourage1 2 points3 points

The internet needs to be turned into a utility so regulations and rules can be set at the government level. That's part of the problem as we are seeing now.