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[–][deleted] 115 points116 points  (67 children)

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Could you make different flavors of meat?

[–]ishadatar[S] 141 points142 points  (37 children)

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In theory, yes, any muscle cell type could be cultured.

[–]empw 87 points88 points  (29 children)

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Could you expand on that? Do you mean we could make pork vs chicken vs beef?

Or do you mean we could make prime rib vs filet vs skirt?

[–]ishadatar[S] 184 points185 points  (27 children)

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Pork vs. chicken vs. beef. The difference in meat cuts is due to how the muscle is used in the animal, and if the muscle is made of fast-twitch or slow-twitch muscle fibers. (Roughly meaning light or dark meat).

The different cuts would be pretty hard to emulate just cause there is so much more at play with respect to how that muscle forms in an animal. I wouldn't count on being able to differentiate different cuts any time soon.

[–][deleted] 65 points66 points  (12 children)

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Eventually, once technology progresses to where any meat and any cut can be made, could custom not-in-nature meats be invented?

For example, we do it with flavor: There's nothing in nature (as far as I know) that really resembles Pepsi. So, if we really wanted to invent something grown to look like a steak, has the texture of scallops, and has some of the gamey flavor found in duck... could we conceivably make it in the far future?

[–]ishadatar[S] 34 points35 points  (1 child)

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I'm excited for what we can do in the far future. Hopefully this is one of them.

[–]wazabee 27 points28 points  (6 children)

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your comment reminded me of an early episode of furturama when he is show orange flavored bacon, and bacon flavored orange

[–]Random832 39 points40 points  (4 children)

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I thought it was caffeinated bacon and baconated grapefruit

[–]Zaldarr 18 points19 points  (0 children)

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Technically correct! The best kind of correct!

[–]aahdin 6 points7 points  (2 children)

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Odd question, but has there been any talk about making human meat?

[–]WonderbaumofWisdom 48 points49 points  (28 children)

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HUMAN MEAT!

[–]ishadatar[S] 43 points44 points  (15 children)

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Any nail biters here?

[–]Lost4468 13 points14 points  (14 children)

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Answer the question! Can you make human meat?

[–]sheetman 4 points5 points  (4 children)

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I'm pretty sure they can. It's just a question of ethics. For any scientific research to take place, it has to get cleared by the board of ethics (whoever they might be). Making a cow burger... fine! But making a human burger... maybe not. This is why we aren't likely to eat a panda burger soon.

[–]Workchoices 5 points6 points  (2 children)

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If you are not harming anyone, I dont see the ethical problem.

[–]poptart2nd 25 points26 points  (5 children)

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I'd pay good money to eat myself.

[–]midnitewarrior 671 points672 points  (141 children)

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I watched the broadcast of the tasting, and I was sorely disappointed in the demonstration they gave.

They had 1 burger to do this with, and they didn't season it, they didn't put it IN the bun, no condiments, NOTHING.

Then, they asked everybody how it tasted. The consensus seemed to be that it didn't really taste great. Who eats unseasoned meat hamburger meat? Who would even know what this is supposed to taste like? No salt or pepper? Of course they aren't going to be thrilled with it. If unseasoned meat hamburger meat tasted great, people wouldn't bother seasoning it. I think one of the tasters said something like he didn't really know what unseasoned meat was supposed to taste like.

The other problem I had with it, was that there was no unseasoned animal meat to use for comparison.

I thought it was a waste of a huge opportunity and it didn't really show the best side of this technology. Considering the high cost of this burger sample, I thought it was a poorly thought out demonstration.

Thoughts?

[–]ishadatar[S] 417 points418 points  (52 children)

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I totally agree. A burger without ketchup!

It would have been interesting too if they had a McDonalds patty... untouched.. to look at side by side. Probably would have helped the cause.

I was honestly so impressed when they took the cloche off the patty. It was so nicely colored. Most burger patties look so much worse than that.

Plus having a comparison would have been more scientifically sound.

[–]ishadatar[S] 188 points189 points  (29 children)

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I also would have liked to see the burger eaten in it's entirety.

[–]C0lMustard 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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A "Pepsi challenge" between two well built burgers, one cultured and one not would probably be the best for you.

[–]XXLpeanuts 25 points26 points  (8 children)

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Yea why didnt they pass it round the audience since the tasters had one bite and didnt even taste it properly?

[–]TheCuntPuncher 18 points19 points  (7 children)

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Did you really think they were going to let members of the press have a taste so they could form subjective opinions on it? That would be on of the worst decisions they could make PR wise.

[–]I_CAPE_RUNTS 39 points40 points  (6 children)

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well they could have had Gordon Ramsey taste it

[–]THE_OBEAST 84 points85 points  (14 children)

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Seriously. Trying to end world hunger and you're going to waste this 200,000 euro burger.

[–]workpuppy 54 points55 points  (2 children)

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It's a proof of concept. It's certainly not waste.

[–]micromoses 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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I would like to see this as a secret ingredient on Iron Chef.

[–]uriman 16 points17 points  (0 children)

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Correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that the meat that was tested had no "taste" also because the meat was very lean if not pure protein. Hamburger meat requires fat (20%) for both taste and moistness. Kobe beef is expensive because of near uniform marbling of fat.

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (7 children)

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McDonalds patty? How about unseasoned ground chuck, from a single cow?

I found the unveiling underwhelming.

[–]wk2012 8 points9 points  (4 children)

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unvealing**

[–][deleted] 110 points111 points  (36 children)

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If they seasoned it then everyone would just say the taste was down to the seasoning and that the demonstration meant nothing. Better to demonstrate that the raw meat itself was edible than be accused of using condiments as a cheat.

[–]midnitewarrior 34 points35 points  (3 children)

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Oh, as I just said in another comment, I think they should have cut the burger in half and dressed one side as a burger, and another as the plain meat.

They really needed something to compare it against IMHO.

Anyway, we'll hear more about this in 3-5 years.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

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Yeah it seems like the bits that were not eaten by the tasters were basically wasted (like half the burger), I think he said it would be taken home to feed to his son or dog or something. Could definitely have been planned a bit better.

[–]DarkSideOfTheMind 127 points128 points  (23 children)

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If it tastes good with normal seasoning, isn't that good enough?

[–]farfle10 46 points47 points  (21 children)

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Yeah, it baffles me that they completely missed the point. Of course raw meat without seasoning or trimmings (in the case of a burger, of all things) is going to be very weak.

[–]BigBennP 43 points44 points  (18 children)

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I disagree.

You buy good ground beef for a burger, you only need a little salt and pepper on the outside as seasoning.

Sure then you eat it on a bun with various things, but the beef stands on its own. I could definitely recognize a good burger without all those things.

[–]shaynejohnson 38 points39 points  (1 child)

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The test patty didn't even have your "a little salt and pepper" to do to it what you want done to your bought good ground beef.

[–]whoami9 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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They should show identical amounts of the same condiments being applied to a real beef burger of the same dimensions, then cook them exactly the same in parallel, then give them both out for comparison. If the synthetic product was even close, that would be huge. Nobody eats unseasoned burgers, so nobody knows what to expect nor what makes an unseasoned burger "good".

Sure taste tests will always be somewhat subjective, but they could have at least done the comparison with Mythbusters level of scientific rigor.

[–]FlorentBerthet 6 points7 points  (1 child)

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It wasn't that bad. They made some compliments (good texture, nice color, taste close to meat). The main objection they had was that it contained no fat, and therefore it had a little bit less flavor than regular meat.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (5 children)

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Who eats unseasoned hamburger meat?

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I love unseasoned hamburger meat. No salt, nothing.

[–]runnerdood 119 points120 points  (8 children)

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Why did Sergey Brin (co-founder of Google) decide to invest in this project?

[–]ishadatar[S] 183 points184 points  (3 children)

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He likes projects on the cutting edge and shares concerns about sustainability. The video here: http://culturedbeef.net covers Sergey's interest in the project, in his own words.

[–]anothergaijin 17 points18 points  (1 child)

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Sergey Brin seems to be extremely interested in seeing radical new ideas followed and tested to see if they have any merit, especially those which would have a massive positive effect on mankind.

He also likes his toys - Sergey apparently leads the team behind things like Google Glass and driver-less cars.

[–]Chronolitus 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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He's trying to find an alternative to feeding Google the humans it requires to function, before people start noticing their missing relatives.

[–]sv21js 82 points83 points  (46 children)

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Once the cells are taken that are going to be cultured to create the meat can you continue to use them indefinitely, or do you need to take new animal cells periodically?

[–]ishadatar[S] 138 points139 points  (42 children)

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Depends on what cells you use. Stem cells multiply indefinitely. So do cancer cells... which we'd want to avoid.

Scientists have been using myosatellite cells, stem cells that are on their way to differentiating into muscle tissue. They can multiply many times but not infinitely. So you would need to re-harvest cells.

Harvesting cells is through a simple biopsy. No animal killed, little suffering.

[–]AeitZean 71 points72 points  (18 children)

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So we would eventually just keep animals as biopsy doners, rather than killing them outright? I would love that.

[–]WanderingAura 21 points22 points  (18 children)

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Why would you want to avoid using cancer cells? It seems like a natural answer to cell immortality.

[–]st1710 96 points97 points  (7 children)

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Tumour burger? Even people who eat Happy Meals might baulk at that.

[–]WanderingAura 60 points61 points  (1 child)

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I'll eat my delicious self-replicating burgers by myself then. :(

[–]yourpenisinmyhand 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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I'll eat them with you. As far as I know, there isn't anything necessarily harmful about eating cooked cancer cells, as unappetizing as it sounds.

[–]brianunderstands 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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Tumour Burger is one of my favorite metal bands.

[–]gburgdan 20 points21 points  (1 child)

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Is this technology being used to facilitate new tissue growth for humans?

[–]ishadatar[S] 41 points42 points  (0 children)

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Cultured meat research really piggybacks off of human regenerative medicine/tissue engineering/stem cell technologies.

So in fact, we're learning from them more than they are learning from us.

[–]Decker108 39 points40 points  (28 children)

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What's the shelf life of this meat?

[–]ishadatar[S] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

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I have no idea. Never been packaged and put on a shelf!

[–][deleted] 89 points90 points  (33 children)

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So it's not vegan in the sense that it still uses real animal muscle tissue. But how animal friendly is it otherwise? Is there any animal byproduct in there? How humane is it?

[–]ishadatar[S] 155 points156 points  (31 children)

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It's hard to apply a vegan label depending on why people are veg*n.

The burger tasted on Monday was created with animal prducts and even cooked with butter and an egg-based binder. This is not the goal.

The goal is to be plant based. Cells will be taken from animals through a simple biopsy (think... getting a mole removed.. very minuscule). It is much more humane than current meat production standards. And far fewer animals would be needed.

[–]200iso 9 points10 points  (0 children)

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How many source animal biopsies are needed for the process?

Can the source cells be cloned indefinitely?

Would you need a small herd of cows constantly being biopsied to meet demand?

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (8 children)

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Thanks! Let's hope to be plantbased soon! It's really interesting work, I've been having tons of discussion about it. Keep it up!

[–]CalmMongoose 49 points50 points  (7 children)

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Your username is odd for someone seemingly supporting animal protection.

[–][deleted] 53 points54 points  (6 children)

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Well, YOUR username is... It's....it's..ah fuck it, I ain't got no comeback.

[–]quaybored 27 points28 points  (2 children)

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Just insult his mom's username

[–]MrBonkies 16 points17 points  (1 child)

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YOUR MOM'S SO FAT THAT WHEN SHE LOST WEIGHT I TOLD HER HOW IMPRESSED I WAS AND THAT I DON'T HAVE A FRACTION OF THE AMOUNT OF WILLPOWER THAT SHE DOES!!

...did I do it right?

[–]Second_Foundationeer 7 points8 points  (1 child)

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He's a CalmMongoose because he ate the snake already.

[–]DaSquige 74 points75 points  (28 children)

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Hello, I read an article in The Week yesterday about your impressive achievement. However it cited a few critics who participated in your taste test, and said that your product did not cook well because of its lack of fat. They (harshly) described it as grey and a little gross, if my memory serves. They also cited its lack of iron, do you have any comments on these criticisms, or plans to address them before your product hits the markets?

Thank you!

[–]ishadatar[S] 152 points153 points  (27 children)

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I'd like to point out first the this product is proof of concept. It's to show that it is physically possible to culture a hamburger. It's not practical at all right now. We need more funds to get there. There is nothing close to reaching the market just yet.

Fat is something that can also be cultured and added, as is blood (where the iron could come from). This will certainly be looked at in the time to come.

The meat wasn't really grey, because colour was enhanced with beet and saffron. But isn't regular hamburger meat grey after cooked?

[–]DaSquige 45 points46 points  (18 children)

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I suppose blood-less meat would be grey.

Thank you for your time in responding, and for your scientific contributions. I hope that one day I will be able to enjoy one of your lab burgers.

Is there any way that we as individuals can contribute funds / make a donation to your research?

[–]themeatbridge 43 points44 points  (5 children)

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FWIW, red meat is red because of myoglobin, not blood.

[–]ishadatar[S] 58 points59 points  (0 children)

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Yes, and myoglobin can be produced with recombinant bacteria/plants so wouldn't be hard to produce.

[–]DaSquige 14 points15 points  (3 children)

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Thank you, I am no expert: a burger flipper, not a burger grower :)

[–]themeatbridge 13 points14 points  (2 children)

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I just realized that "burger grower" would become an actual job in my lifetime.

[–]ishadatar[S] 71 points72 points  (9 children)

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Yes, totally!!

Funding has so far been philanthropic, from individuals like yourself. Please donate here: http://www.new-harvest.org/donate/

[–]FdeZ 46 points47 points  (6 children)

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Its pretty ridiciolous that the USA goverment and the EU keeps funding industrial farming and not enviromental/animal friendly meat like this.

[–]dzzeko 25 points26 points  (3 children)

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One word. Lobbying.

[–]Lipophobicity 11 points12 points  (0 children)

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This seems like a much better choice then government subsidized ethanol or sugar

[–]Naggers123 13 points14 points  (3 children)

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Could you do rainbow coloured steaks?!

I imagine the bronies would be willing to fund that

[–]CaptainPlanetEater 12 points13 points  (1 child)

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Or pretty patties!

[–]rotor_head 70 points71 points  (30 children)

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Can't believe nobody asked this yet! What did it taste like?

[–]ishadatar[S] 101 points102 points  (24 children)

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Unfortunately I didn't get a taste! Which is too bad cause I'm asked that question all the time. They wanted to keep the tasters unbiased, which is good scientific practice ;)

[–]Marvelman1788 25 points26 points  (19 children)

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Would you have any links or press reports from the tasters that you could share?

[–]ishadatar[S] 48 points49 points  (18 children)

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You can watch the tasters tasting the burger here: http://culturedbeef.net/event/

[–]Marvelman1788 71 points72 points  (10 children)

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Thanks! TL;DW, the texture and beef flavor are consistent with conventional beef, but it's missing the fatty flavor and juiciness that the fat provides. But, as Isha commented on above incorporating fat is doable and soon to come.

[–]postposter 12 points13 points  (6 children)

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I wouldn't be surprised if other sources of fat (plant or dairy) couldn't also be used as a quite serviceable substitute in the mean time.

[–]ishadatar[S] 21 points22 points  (5 children)

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totally!

[–]xayzer 27 points28 points  (5 children)

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It doesn't help that the meat was initially presented in what appeared to be a petri dish.

[–]ishadatar[S] 94 points95 points  (3 children)

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Conveniently in the shape of a burger patty!

[–]litre_cola 24 points25 points  (2 children)

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Despair

[–]Sacrifice_Pawn 29 points30 points  (15 children)

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How does the energy/resource demand of cultured meat compare to industrial farming techniques?

[–]ishadatar[S] 47 points48 points  (14 children)

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Cultured meat is expected to require 45% less energy input. The study concluding this can be found here: http://new-harvest.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/tuomisto_teixiera_de_mattos_cultured_meat_lca_es_t_published.pdf

[–]cosmonautsix 9 points10 points  (11 children)

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How does it compare to sustainable small farming techniques?

[–]ishadatar[S] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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Most of the inputs of meat production come in the production process itself i.e.. raising a cow for 2 years before it's slaughtered.

Sustainable farming is hard to judge because it should be cows raised on land that can't be used for growing crops, using manure for fertilizer etc. There's nothing objectionable about this and cultured meat isn't really seeking to disturb this type of farming.

[–]jokes_on_you 38 points39 points  (10 children)

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As I understand, you use bovine serum (or another similar animal product) in the media for the cultured meat. Have y'all been making steps towards using media that is 100% non-animal sources? Or is that further down the road? This would be crucial for vegetarians.

[–]ishadatar[S] 64 points65 points  (8 children)

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It is a goal to make the serum animal-free. Research is being done on culturing mammalian cells in algae-based and mushroom-based media. But SO MUCH MORE research needs to be done in this area.

It's something that hasn't been pushed for in the medical community, which is why the research is lagging big time.

[–]Moebiuzz 9 points10 points  (4 children)

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I know nothing about biology. Are you telling me you maybe one day could get a hamburger out of an algae's cells?

[–]jokes_on_you 13 points14 points  (3 children)

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No. The tissue must still come from a cow (or whatever animal you want cultured meat from). But in the petri dish the muscle tissue needs nutrients. Usually bovine serum is added to the media to provide them. But if you're a vegetarian, this may be unacceptable and you would still not want to eat the meat, although it is just from animals that are already going to be slaughtered anyway.

[–]YeshkepSe 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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Lots of it, yes -- there's actually no really good way yet known to go without it. Animal cells just don't do well in culture; even HeLa cells, which are thoroughly adapted to growth in medium and don't do squat in animals anymore despite being cultured from a cancer originally, require some amount of fetal bovine serum.

Could they come up with a method to do it without? Sure, but they'd be inventing a technique utterly unknown to us now, probably with huge knock-on effects for society at large. No FBS, no scaffolding, cultured animal cells? This'd be a breakthrough in synthetic biology that is difficult to understate.

It might be possible, but not at their funding level, and not with current knowledge and techniques.

[–]That_Film_Guy 77 points78 points  (29 children)

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Would you be interested in having me make a documentary on this subject to potentially fast-track the "open-mindedness"?

[–]ishadatar[S] 56 points57 points  (17 children)

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Yes!

[–]KosherHam 27 points28 points  (9 children)

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Just like that huh? No résumé , or interview?

[–]maddox078 39 points40 points  (1 child)

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Hey man, it's "That Film Guy" we're talking about here. You don't know who they are, you must live under a rock.

[–]Ihmhi 14 points15 points  (0 children)

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Well, he is That_Film_Guy.

[–]carlitabear 3 points4 points  (2 children)

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His username should suffice.

[–]ishadatar[S] 26 points27 points  (1 child)

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He didn't ask for anything in return.

[–]That_Film_Guy 8 points9 points  (6 children)

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PM me and perhaps we can talk potential

[–]dkinmn 2 points3 points  (5 children)

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Let me know if you need music.

[–]Bwazo 5 points6 points  (3 children)

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And let me know if you need somebody to watch and listen to said film.

[–]veertamizhan 26 points27 points  (14 children)

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how much time will it take for the meat to be available at the local supermarket? and will it be cheap?

[–]ishadatar[S] 68 points69 points  (13 children)

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It will not start out cheap, just because of how expensive it will be. Think about how the computer trickled down into society. Highly exclusive and expensive and impractical... down to a huge proportion of the population having one in your pocket.

Not sure when everyone will have a burger in their pocket. Haha.

This first burger was $300K.. the next probably in the $10K range.. slowly moving down. The first tastings will be exclusive and expensive, slowly becoming more mainstream. Just cause technology moves that way.

[–]Redebo 31 points32 points  (3 children)

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Is this the line for people who want burgers in their pockets?

[–]MechaNickzilla 3 points4 points  (3 children)

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Does Moore's law apply to burgers? If so, when can we expect to see them under 20 nanometers?

[–]NIKKISLAYER7 5 points6 points  (2 children)

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What is this, a burger for ants!?!

[–]pitzaBot 6 points7 points  (3 children)

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Will this ever be a make-at-home product? Like a crock pot on your counter that can grow out your proteins as you want them?

[–]jexopolis 101 points102 points  (68 children)

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It seems some people are really open-minded and say "cool" where others say "that seems so gross." How do you combat the folks who are close minded or think cultured meat is "evil"—like a next step from GMOs and Monsanto, etc ...

[–]ishadatar[S] 154 points155 points  (63 children)

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Most of the negativity is related to an appeal to nature http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

Which is a matter of opinion.

I say the best way to move this technology forward is with education and openness. And considering all research has been public domain to date, there's a lot of transparency already that just didn't happen with Big Food tech developments (you can read papers at http://www.new-harvest.org/academic-articles/)

[–]Folderpirate 29 points30 points  (59 children)

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What do you say to those who, after research and understanding, still don't want it? Do you forsee a future where this is the only type of meat available?

[–]ishadatar[S] 97 points98 points  (28 children)

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That's fine if they don't want it. But the standard price of meat can only increase with time. So they should keep that in mind.

And if they're veg*n then no problem!

I think meat just needs to be diversified. For instance, beef is supposed to be raised on pasture that is totally unfit for farming. Hilly, rocky, steep, whatever. The problem is most beef is not produced this way. Beef is usually raised on food humans could eat (soy, corn) rather than food humans can't eat (grass).

I personally have to problem with traditional farming. It's just that that's not the norm.

There should be many types of meats, and various price levels.

[–]CrimsonSmear 99 points100 points  (3 children)

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At first I thought you were censoring vegan, like it was a bad word. Then I realized that the asterisk was a wildcard character an you meant it to include vegetarian and vegan. Nice.

[–]faiban 24 points25 points  (2 children)

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While I sat here wondering what the fuck a vegun is.

[–]avgwhtguy1 32 points33 points  (29 children)

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And do you see the price of real meat increasing because of the alternative? Do you see real meat being priced out of supermarkets? (As an economist, I do)

[–]ishadatar[S] 60 points61 points  (18 children)

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Totally. The price of meat can only increase.

I honestly don't understand how it is even economically stable right now. I mean considering how a single recall or farm animal disease can wipe out a ton of animals/product. Seems like a risky business to be in.

[–]avsa 12 points13 points  (4 children)

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Since you stated that the process could be used on any animal, I suppose its technically possible to grow human meat. Would you ever consider it or do you think society wouldn't be ready for the ethical debate? Would you eat your own meat?

[–]ishadatar[S] 20 points21 points  (3 children)

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Yes, it is technically possible. In fact it might be easier since we have so much more familiarity with human cells than the cell lines of agricultural animals.

I'd probably try my own meat. I don't see why not.

As for society... I never know what it wants :) but it's not a bad thought-experiment to engage in.

[–]Elariuz 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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Freud would be proud

[–]mtn_mojo 28 points29 points  (4 children)

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Have you considered targeting the fitness community as a source of enthusiasm/help? People spend thousands of dollars on protein supplements, which are generally just dried whey/casein/soy powder. The profit margins must be staggering on stuff like that.

The idea of easily available, ready-to-eat pure protein is very exciting, and I'm positive that people who are trying to add more to their diet in the form of powders would be even more excited about another source of pure "clean" animal protein!

[–]ishadatar[S] 38 points39 points  (2 children)

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I have TOTALLY thought about this and I am so happy you brought this up! The fitness community probably have the most sci-fi diets of anyone, and are also capable of changing public perceptions of food. Think about protein powder. Used to be a thing for hardcore bodybuilders. Now it seems every person, male/female has a giant tub of powder somewhere within arms reach. (Exaggeration but you know).

This community is also subject to all kinds of trends: raw egg... tuna... turkey breast... whey.. now vegan products. So might be hard to get them on board so early. What do you think?

[–]mtn_mojo 19 points20 points  (1 child)

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Marketing 100% raw animal protein, harvested sustainably and presented in basically any fashion you care to form the stuff? Just make sure everyone is aware that they are getting all the hottest amino acids like HMB and l-carnatine, and it will fly off the shelves.

If anything, this opens up far more options as to how to sell the stuff. You do not have to present it even as palatable, much less attempt to replicate any specific cut of meat. Put it in a blueberry shake, form it into a bar or wafer, the sky's the limit!

Cultured meat sounds like a godsend: safe, sustainable, pure protein. I wish I knew of a way to get involved with the project!

Here is a prime example, by the way, of the kind of thinking that goes into protein supplementation: http://schwarzenegger.com/fitness/post/the-protein-bible-part-1-introduction

[–]ishadatar[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

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Send me an email isha@new-harvest.org if you're interested in getting involved :)

[–]Guustaaf 10 points11 points  (2 children)

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  • I've read that cultured chicken meat is harder to produce than beef for example, why is that?
  • I've also read that the cultured beef was white, and had to be coloured with beet juice to make it look more appealing, do you know how this will be fixed and how hard that will be?
  • Where does the mass of the meat come from? When cultured meat is produced in much larger quantities, I imagine it needs to 'grow' from some kind of 'food', because you can't make something from nothing, what do you think this 'food' will be?

Sorry if the answers to these are already available in some paper, I bet they are, but I'm lazy :). Also super proud that this all originated in my home town btw.

[–]ishadatar[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

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Maybe because cow cells are mammalian and more like the cells we've cultured in the past? And we have less knowledge about chicken cells? That would be my guess. But it is a guess. Mark Post's lab chose beef because it has the highest environmental impact of the common meats, per kg of meat.

You can fix the colour by adding myoglobin, the "iron holding molecule" in muscle. You can create this with recombinant plants/bacteria.

The food for the meat will be a liquid media, which should be plant-based. Lots of research needs to be done in this area still.

[–]louis_my_lord 31 points32 points  (17 children)

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How long until this hits shelves in supermarkets?

[–]ishadatar[S] 67 points68 points  (16 children)

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This is dependent on so many things but most of all, funding. If there was a blank cheque written (and major industry behind it) to get this done ASAP, I'd say maybe 5 years! But there isn't (so far) so the pace is quite slow.

[–][deleted]  (14 children)

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[deleted]

    [–]alexanderwales 36 points37 points  (8 children)

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    McDonalds does that because it's cheaper that way. They would rather sit to the side and make their cheap burgers while waiting for someone to drop the price of expensive artificial burgers. As soon as it's economical to do so, McDonalds will make the switch, but they're not exactly the kind of company that engages in base R&D.

    [–]easternpassage 17 points18 points  (1 child)

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    One of Ray Kroc's and McDonald's key to success was better R&D than the other companies... Your right in that McDonalds does 0 research and development, because its such an important part to their business they created the "McDonald’s Research and Development Laboratory." They won't back it though because there is already to many stupid people with small minds that hold false connotations about the company, so billions are wasted on developing silly things that trick simple people and make everyone feel good about nothing.

    [–]rrr159 5 points6 points  (4 children)

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    Also they get a bad rep as it is, if the media found out they were funding "fake beef" they would be I'm quite a shit hole

    [–]OscarMiguelRamirez 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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    ...he said with the smuggest smirk imaginable, adding nothing to the conversation at hand.

    [–]easternpassage 9 points10 points  (1 child)

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    McDonald's beef is 100% beef, for fucks sake they posted videos showing people how its made in the factory and then packaged and sent to the stores. The only thing thing different between their burger and one you make at home is it is really thin and small but its only $1 for an entire fucking burger what are you expecting.

    [–]Salacious- 35 points36 points  (44 children)

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    Which endangered species would you really want to eat?

    meat grown in a lab, of course!

    [–]ishadatar[S] 56 points57 points  (34 children)

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    Hard to say! How would I know if they are tasty or not?

    [–]iamfuckinganton 37 points38 points  (2 children)

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    the gallapagos turtle was apparently absolutely delicious. Darwin tried to bring a lot of them back to england after his voyage, but, allegedly, they were so tasty that he and his crew ate them.

    [–]Salacious- 34 points35 points  (23 children)

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    Don't cop out on me! White rhino? Bald eagle? There's got to be one animal that you've seen while watching the Discovery Channel or something and thought "that would go well with a nice side of mashed potatoes."

    [–]jointheredditarmy 47 points48 points  (11 children)

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    Why do I think this is ultimately what propels this technology into the mainstream? Rich kids wanting to eat mammoth steak...

    [–]ishadatar[S] 44 points45 points  (9 children)

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    I didn't know extinct species were on the table!

    [–]empw 35 points36 points  (5 children)

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    I'd like the Stegosaurus with a side of asparagus please.

    [–][deleted] 56 points57 points  (0 children)

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    Stegosaurus makes my pee smell funny.

    [–]Kaneshadow 39 points40 points  (1 child)

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    Southern fried bald eagle would be the most american food EVER. Pass the hot sauce.

    [–]bobulesca 10 points11 points  (0 children)

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    Bald Eagles aren't actually endangered, just protected. They're actually have problems with overpopulation in Alaska.

    [–]sodappop 9 points10 points  (4 children)

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    kitten.

    Not a real kitten... just like he said... petri dish kitten!

    [–]the_slunk 13 points14 points  (2 children)

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    Johnny... you're scaring us.

    [–]sodappop 10 points11 points  (1 child)

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    Haven't you ever seen a kitten so cuuuute you just wanted to eat it up?

    [–]the_slunk 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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    Only figuratively. Those who take that expression literally might fit the mold of a future-serial-killer.

    [–]ilikescarlet 6 points7 points  (4 children)

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    Isn't the Dodo extinct for just being too tasty?

    [–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (3 children)

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    Nah, apparently it tasted horribly and stringy. The Giant tortoise was nearly eaten to extinction though because according to those who ate it, it was the best tasting meat they had ever tasted.

    It was so tasty that it took years and years for a specimen to arrive back in Britain because the crews of ships could not resist eating them.

    [–]Transvestosaurus 22 points23 points  (5 children)

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    Sod that, which human do you want to legally cannibalize?

    [–]VoodooAction 72 points73 points  (3 children)

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    Kevin Bacon.

    [–]ishadatar[S] 46 points47 points  (1 child)

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    HILARIOUS

    [–]barneygale 35 points36 points  (32 children)

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    Does in vitro meat have any selling points beyond being environmentally friendly? Is it easier to cook, more versatile in recipes, etc?

    To be clear I fully support it for its green credentials. I'm just curious how limited its appeal might be to folks who don't care about that.

    [–]ishadatar[S] 68 points69 points  (29 children)

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    At this point (before there is a commercially viable product) it's hard to determine what other selling points could exist.

    Healthier is one. You can control fat content.

    Maybe more widespread awareness of factory farming as it takes place now can reduce appeal of meat as it is now, thereby increasing cultured meat's appeal.

    [–]avgwhtguy1 32 points33 points  (22 children)

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    Less fat doesn't necessarily mean more healthy

    [–]postposter 27 points28 points  (3 children)

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    More controlled fat content has to be a good thing though. I know my beef doesn't come with a precise ratio of fat:protein, it's a rough estimate if anything at all.

    [–]Crossthebreeze 13 points14 points  (0 children)

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    The point is that you're not dependent on the meat's given fat content, but can determine it yourself.

    [–]midnitewarrior 25 points26 points  (4 children)

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    One of the things that I noticed in the broadcast of the tasting was the emphasis on the production of 100% cultured meat products. I think this is a mistake.

    Consumer acceptance of a blended product would probably be much higher than a 100% cultured product for an initial product roll out. The great thing about a blended product is that it overcomes one of the shortcomings of this technology - the inability to grow fat (I know they are working on it). Animal fat is cheap and can be blended with cultured product to get a product on-par with traditional hamburger meat.

    The other advantage they would have is preservation of texture. Creating a blended product (regular hamburger / cultured protien / animal fat) can benefit from the familiar texture of regular hamburger meat.

    I think a 100% complete cultured product is a great long-term goal, especially for acceptance from vegetarians, but it will be years before this pure product can get to market. Creating a blend that supermarkets can use to supplement their existing burger grind can get this product into the shopping carts of consumers much more quickly.

    If they can get the price to have an advantage over traditional beef, consumers will be curious to try the product.

    Thoughts?

    [–]ishadatar[S] 29 points30 points  (3 children)

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    Totally agree.

    In fact, I am surprised we don't blend meat with plant-based alternatives more often. They do that a lot in European countries.

    Any method that reduces the total amount of factory-farmed meat consumed is in my books a good idea.

    [–]aoanla 3 points4 points  (1 child)

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    Well, that's what Quorn / tvp were originally developed as - "meat extenders" rather than complete replacements. For some reason, the marketing for the final products didn't go that way...

    [–]VanBurenOG 18 points19 points  (5 children)

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    So where are these scientists at with the bacon situation?

    [–]Intheweeds4now 21 points22 points  (7 children)

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    After all the experimentation, do you believe it's a viable source for meat in the future ?

    [–]ishadatar[S] 72 points73 points  (6 children)

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    I believe so. We're literally running out of planet to produce meat the way we do today. 70% of agricultural land is devoted to livestock production (D'Silva and Webster, eds. The Meat Crisis. 2010) and with meat consumption expected to double by 2050... I mean we can't double 70%.

    Of course a vegetarian diet is always an important solution we must not forget about!!!

    [–]schmearcampain 29 points30 points  (5 children)

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    The other solution is to put cattle ranches on Mars.

    [–]Passion_gap 4 points5 points  (4 children)

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    Bug ranches you mean.

    [–]salsawood 4 points5 points  (4 children)

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    As someone in the aerospace industry, the potential for this to be used in long-duration space flight is really exciting. Have you considered contacting NASA about this?

    How was this burger produced? I understand that the meat was grown from stem cells, but hamburgers aren't naturally occuring cuts of bovine meat...was there many different cuts grown from stem cells that were then put through a meat grinder, like a traditional hamburger?

    [–]ishadatar[S] 11 points12 points  (3 children)

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    NASA funded this research in the early 00s, but discontinued it shortly after. For the reasons your mentioned. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094576502000334

    Question for you: Are astronauts vegetarian in space?

    This is how the burger was made: http://www.youtube.com/embed/3LKsSEbSrUQ

    [–]cautiousman 27 points28 points  (2 children)

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    Hey Isha, thanks a lot for doing this. I'm a huge supporter of cultured meat but I don't really know how to help. What can the average person do to help make cultured meat easily accessible in the not too distant future?

    [–]ishadatar[S] 41 points42 points  (1 child)

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    In short (here comes the plug): donate to New Harvest! http://www.new-harvest.org/donate/

    The creation of cultured meat has been largely philanthropic which is AMAZING because all the science is out there in the open (unlike other food technologies... like GMOs... which scientists can't even investigate cause they're so heavily protected)

    Keep food technology public... donate to the cause.

    also amazing: We're talking about this technology 20 years (or so) before it happens rather than 10 years after we found out we've been eating it for a decade (1st GMO approved 1994.. first "right to know" campaign ~2003)

    [–]cautiousman 5 points6 points  (0 children)

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    Awesome! Thanks for all you do!!

    [–]wernermuende 15 points16 points  (23 children)

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    -Can you elaborate what measures you are taking to avoid using FCS and how these attempts compare.

    -Can you estimate when fat cells will enter the picture?

    -What do you expectfrom hardcore vegan consumers? How many vegans will actually eat this stuff?

    -Will it be possible to actually grow bigger pieces with natural consistency but unnatural shapes ? like 1 kg cube shaped beef...

    [–]ishadatar[S] 31 points32 points  (22 children)

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    The cultured meat community (not me personally) is working on plant-based media, specifically algae-based (which is high in protein and other nutrients) and mushroom-based (good amino acid profile).

    Mark Post mentioned at the event that fat could have been part of the picture within the next five months (though not at scale).

    Not sure how many vegans will get eat it. In my books, none of them have to. They already have the most sustainable, humane, environmentally sound diet there is! Which may be one reason that some may oppose cultured meat development.

    That all depends on innovation in process. A 3d printing technique seems best for your proposition. Shapes are totally manipulatable. In fact we already eat standardized non-nature occurring shapes (think of the four McDonalds chicken nuggets...).

    [–]TalkingBackAgain 14 points15 points  (3 children)

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    How long before your product is in restaurants and, in texture and taste, undistinguishable from the real thing?

    Also, at what point after the first consumption of the product do you typically expect us to die from horrible diseases?

    [–]ishadatar[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

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    I guess we should watch those tasters carefully for the next several years.

    There is really no reason why it would be dangerous. Especially since equivalent technology is used to create organs to be transplanted INTO PEOPLE's BODIES! Which is far more sterile/prone to problems than digestion.

    Hard to say about indistinguishability, just cause as it stands there are so many qualities/types of meat. I'd say a ground meat product is coming soon.

    Restaurants? Depends on when the product is available. And that depends on how much money goes into development. You can help move it forward by donating to New Harvest!

    [–]helpfulsmeagol 3 points4 points  (1 child)

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    Were you inspired by science fictional accounts of synthetic meat in your choice of careers, or your choice to participate in this project?

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

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    I'm not a scientist, so I'm not really familiar with how certain diseases are transmitted, but are there concerns about safety regarding the protein itself?

    For example, it's possible to get vCJD by eating prions, which persist despite cooking. Is it possible for there to be a "cultured meat Mad Cow" outbreak if something goes wrong in development or manufacturing?

    Also, could prion-contaminated meat be intentionally produced someday? There is a precedent for terrorists targeting the food supply, and an AQ group had contemplated poisoning food before deciding to blow up planes. Given the deadliness and lack of treatment options for prion diseases (and the extreme difficulty of detecting contaminated meat), is it a concern that cultured meat technology could someday be used in terrorist plots?

    [–]penis_sound_wave 4 points5 points  (2 children)

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    Were you tempted to prank people during the taste test by having a seizure and screaming "I shouldn't have played god!" or something?

    [–]ishadatar[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

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    I didn't taste the burger, so it would have been weird to do that from the audience.

    [–]bloomcnd 18 points19 points  (1 child)

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    What are the predictions regarding jobs lost in the farming industry compared to jobs created with new "meat labs" (or however you call the new production facilities)?

    BTW, I am really looking forward to trying your meat and think it is a fantastic way to fight bad farming practices!

    [–]ishadatar[S] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

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    This would be an example of good research to do.

    Of course it depends on which country you're looking at. Some countries are extremely dependent on importing meat (like Japan).. if meat could be cultured in metropolitan areas.. that would create jobs and stimulate a local economy.

    [–]ilikescarlet 10 points11 points  (6 children)

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    Do you think people will be able to grow their own meat similar to how we grow our own veg? Obviously this would be a long way down the line, just wondering if you think it's possible?

    [–]ishadatar[S] 24 points25 points  (5 children)

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    Yes!!! I LOVE the idea of meat production becoming something that happens locally.

    In fact, a future with this technology can look a lot different than our present relationship with meat. You could culture meat and home. Or a nearby posh restaurant can culture steaks made in house! I'd say it's more like brewing your own beer than growing your own veg.

    Kitchen counter top bioreactors!

    [–]schifosa 3 points4 points  (3 children)

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    I'm surprised no one has really asked this yet, but is it healthy? I'm guessing there's no way to tell if it is good for our bodies long-term but I am personally worried about all the processed food we are eating becoming a health factor later in life.

    [–]designgoddess 4 points5 points  (1 child)

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    Can you figure out a way to add fat to the meat?

    [–]EvilLittleCar 1 point2 points  (2 children)

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    So who got to taste the burger? Was it good? Did it have a different flavor?

    [–]ishadatar[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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    [–]steppingrazor1220 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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    Will cultured pork be considered Kosher?

    [–]Kami7 4 points5 points  (2 children)

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    do you have any studies that look into long term effects of lap grown meat. Does it provide the same nutrition a cow produces by eating natural foods.

    [–]Rrrrrrr777 6 points7 points  (1 child)

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    Are you aware of the debate regarding whether or not cultured meat would be considered kosher, or if it would be considered meat at all by religious standards? Do you have any opinions on that?

    [–]TheFost 2 points3 points  (0 children)

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    What are the main barriers to mass production and what unit price will your cultured meat sell for if it is mass produced?

    [–]CLint_FLicker 2 points3 points  (2 children)

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    How stringent are the checks for other cell contamination / changes in the cells? Cell media has antibiotics and all that to prevent bacterial/fungal growth, but how do you check to make sure that the stem cells havent differentiated into other cell types? I'd imagine it might be hard to keep all the cell stocks uniformly.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

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    Are they able to control the fat and micronutrient profile? Create meat with a "perfect ratio" of fats, a better amino acid profile and a full array of vitamins and minerals. That'd be awesome if they could.

    [–]Skeldave 2 points3 points  (1 child)

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    I was wondering whether the meat is actually 100% meat, or does it contain any sort of artificial additives like most foods do these days?

    [–]ishadatar[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

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    The burger that was tasted on Monday contained beet juice and saffron for colouring, and egg as a binder for the burger. Nothing was artificial.

    The product does not need to contain additives. But additives tend to be included for function (binders) or presentation (beet juice).

    The product that comes out of a bioreactor should be pure meat.

    [–]K-guy 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    sorry, this has been archived and can no longer be voted on

    Do you hope one day for there to be at a section in the meat isle labelled 'cultured meat'?