Wed
Apr 8 2015 11:15am

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 2 Discussion Thread

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 2

Inhumans, two S.H.I.E.L.D.s, and Ultron? The latter half of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season 2 is slowly becoming the insane Marvel Universe-with-creamy-Coulson-center that show we always hoped it would be.

And since the twists just keep coming, we've set up a single discussion thread so that no one has to wait to talk about the latest surprise in Agents of SHIELD. Spoilers ahead for the latest episode, of course.

To follow Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. recaps and discussion threads on Tor.com, visit the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. tag page.

38 comments
Chris Meadows
1. Robotech_Master
A couple things.

First, from last week's episode, when Skye's talking about how well-stocked the cabin is…did folks notice the clever little Easter Egg reference there to one of the Marvel One-Shots, involving Coulson and snack cakes?

From last night's: You know, it only just occurred to me that Dr. Crazypants never actually came out and said Whitehall "killed" Skye's mother. At least, I don't remember him doing so. (And if he did, it might have been to Skye, who he was trying to manipulate.) It was always "what they did to" her. If that's the case, then very nicely done, Jed and Maurissa, managing to slip that one by.

So how did she survive? If she's the closest thing the MCU setting has to Wolverine, did her body just grow all its organs back after they dumped it?

I've got the sneaking suspicion that the Inhuman Shangri-La people are going to be the primary antagonist by the end of S2...

The closing stinger was an especially nice touch. Fitz finally gets to eat his sandwich!
Colin R
2. Colin R
That was a lot of stuff that happened!

So, one of the major criticisms of the early SHIELD was that it didn't feel like it was party of the MCU. With Deathloks and Inhumans all over the place now, it seems like that's pretty moot. Good to see Mike Peterson back.

It's interesting how the characters are being shuffled around into groups that all have some distrust built-in. Skye, Raina, and Cal with the Inhumans; Simmons, May, Bobbi, and Mack with Gonzales; Coulson, Hunter, Peterson, Fitz (probably), with Ward(!) and Agent 33; it doesn't seem like these groups of characters can stay stable for very long, and after an episode or two they will probably bounce around again.

As I write this all down I note that we have a large cast here. Surely not all of them can stick around regularly after the end of the season? But it makes sense to bring out the heavy hitters as we ramp up to Age of Ultron.

The way that Fitz-Simmons reunion and deception was all tied together was brilliant fun. I missed some of the details of it while watching, but I guess Fitz must have noticed that Jemma was scanning the cube and sending a copy to a 3D printer. And their dialog, once I read it again, was perfectly duplicitous--everything they said to each other had double meanings.

I'm still not sure what it is about Simmons; the writers seem to continually get away with making the viewer suspect the worst of her, but she has always been unfailingly loyal to the team. But she does seem to have secret depths, doesn't she? Somehow she is the most mysterious member of the team.
Sydo Zandstra
3. Fiddler
So, after last night's episode, it seems FitzSimmons are getting closer again. Nice teamwork on getting the cube away from RealShield. Way to go Fitz!

Loved seeing Peterson again, being the one-man-reinforcements. I was expecting an Avenger when Coulson mentioned it being one man, but I like this better.

Loved Coulson's remark on not telling Lance who the backup would 'because he just wanted to see the look on his face'. :D

And I was expecting that he would turn to Ward, halfway the episode, when they talked about going for 'bad options'. Because how many options are there really, and Ward was brought into the spotlights 2 episodes ago, and he is kind of a neutral side now...

Agent 33 could be very useful to Coulson's team too.

I'm guessing the only reason why Skye's dad still lives is that Gordon's boss turns out to be Skye's mom.
Chris Nelly
4. Aeryl
YAY A THREAD!

VALIDATION: The feeling you get when Melinda May says the thing you've been saying on the internet for three weeks!

And apparently, Cal just sewed Jianying back together and her powers did the rest! So yeah, pretty much Wolverine.

So much good stuff this episode, the FitzSimmons duplicity! Coulson's "back up". I laughed so hard when Hunter told Coulson to start looking at the bad options, and woke up to discover he'd called SHIELD. Coulson is so hardcore. I also liked the juxtaposition between Coulson's dedication to not killing any SHIELD agents, vs what we saw last week from REAL SHIELD

Cal's aggreived patriarch act is tiring, I hope Gordon teleports him off a cliff soon.

Gonzalez' xenophobia was way more prominent this week, especially with his repeated refusal to acknowledge Skye, and other powered people, AS PEOPLE, instead of things. That also left a nice little loophole for him to have some powered person imprisoned on the ship, and still refer to him and May as the "only two people" on the ship, because he doesn't view them as people.


Now, NEXT WEEK! We get to see how May became the Cavalry, when she faced off against a powered person who could influence people's minds. My guess is, whatever is on the ship, if it's a who, it's another one that can do that, and that it actually is controlling everyone who was on the ship, which is why the longer Bobbi stays off it, the less sway it's holding over her.
Chris Long
5. radynski
I just think bringing Ward onto the team is not a good way to convince people that Coulson is responsible and capable of leading Shield. He's a known Hydra agent for goodness sake.
Chris Meadows
6. Robotech_Master
It's interesting. I thought that this week's episode was going to have lots of action as Coulton took back SHIELD from the interloper, but it turned out to be largely a breather episode. But next week's looks very action-intensive.

I think Cal is a great character, and his attitude is understandable. It's too bad he can't seem to control himself. I hope he doesn't get killed off, because he's so much fun overall.

I don't think Coulson's going to bring Ward "onto the team" per se. He thinks Ward can help him find where Gordon took Skye. It's going to be interesting to see what Coulson offers Ward to get him to play ball. A pardon? Some kind of help for Agent 33?

This is all so exciting. Six episodes remaining in the season. Three will air before Age of Ultron, and three will air afterward (assuming episode 19 doesn't get pre-empted for some reason, in which case it would be two and four; only the ones through 18 are scheduled on the Wikipedia page so far). It's going to be interesting to see how they weave it in.
Kalvin Kingsley
7. KalvinKingsley
Of all the things that could have bothered me (thinking about "realism" about this episode, the only thing my mind got stuck on was that May wouldn't know the difference in weight between a loaded or unloaded gun.

But I rationalize that with the fact that this was a relatively special gun, not a "standard issue" of anything May might have used, as it had belonged to Gonzales' grandfather (father? I forget).

@1 I didn't notice the snack cake thing and I should have. Nice catch.
@2 I agree, the FitzSimmons bit was very well done. I saw what they were doing and was "on to" it (though I didn't see the switch coming), but the way they played it, you couldn't be *certain* they were playing RealShield until the end.
@4 I'm not sure Cal knew Jiayang was alive until Gordon took him. The "There's someone who you need to talk to." at the end of that episode, looking back, seems like it was probably her. I missed where he said there was a powered person on the ship. I also missed anything/everything re: mind control. I only saw on the teaser for next week that there's someone who "takes people's pain" or something (psychic vampire?). Can you elaborate on what I must have missed? Also I agree that Gonzales' xenophobia is very apparent, and find it interesting that some folks on teh Intarwebz are taking his side.
Chris Meadows
8. Robotech_Master
@7 They do make inert bullets that have the right weight but no propellant. (For use in filming movies, for example.) He could very well have loaded the gun with those, and May would have known it, though admittedly that is a bit of reading into things.

I sure hope that person who "takes people's pain" doesn't turn out to be Spock's half-brother...
Colin R
9. Colin R
Idle thoughts:

Gonzales v. Coulson: This conflict is a bit more interesting than it looks on the surface; they both have points. Gonzales asserts that Coulson is insufficiently transparent. He has a point, but the other operational difference between the two, never stated, is that Coulson runs SHIELD like he operated his team: as family. Gonzales treats SHIELD more abstractly, as an ideal and an institution. Coulson's approach is sometimes disturbingly partriarchal (daddy knows best, and sometimes daddy doesn't tell the kids everything.) But since to Gonzales no one SHIELD agent is more important than another, that also means that SHIELD agents might be disposable. Coulson on the other hand refuses to let anyone under his command kill a SHIELD agent.

The nature of the show tells me that Coulson is ultimately going to win out here: the personal dynamics of the show are ultimately more familial than professional. But I think (and hope) that there is ultimately a compromise.

Personal dynamics:

Coulson: he's daddy, duh. Sometimes this is a little uncomfortable; Daddy is in charge but he's also the one that the 'kids' seek approval from. Still, he is basically a softie: he gets criticism from both sides on how he treat powered people. Not just Skye, but also Mike--Gonzales perceives him as coddling and accumulating powerful people. The Inhumans see him as chaining them up. We know he has personal relationships to both, and that he relates to them as people.

May: The politics of May and Coulson as mom and dad are a little more retrograde than they appear, I think. Dad gives approval; mom is the enforcer. I don't think this is that uncommon a dynamic. Still, May is a badass.

FitzSimmons: Fitz is kind of an open book. He's mentioned before that it was just him and his mom; obviously SHIELD is family to him just like it is to Skye. Simmons remains the puzzle: She is tightlipped about her past and her feelings.

Ward: Reaching out to Ward is going to have bad consequences. Right now he's still conflicted about his feelings for Skye. But even though he is estranged, he is still part of the family, and we have seen what Ward does to family.

Hunter: OK, I wasn't really expecting Hunter to bond like he has with Coulson. And I am not sure I fully buy it. Coulson has shown appreciation for Hunter before--he hired him not in spite of the fact that he's a loose cannon, but because of it. But is Hunter signing onto team Coulson because he believes it, or to get back at Bobbi and Mack?

Bobbi: Yeah obviously she is going to join team Coulson eventually. As cool as she is, I look forward to when this plot is behind us and she has a chance to relate more to the other members of the team. She has obviously held back from getting to close to them.

Mack: This is tricky; he clearly has fraternal feelings for Fitz, but he also seems to be firmly on board with Gonzales. So if he is going to switch sides, it would probably come from SHIELD threatening Fitz. I like Mack; he's a cool presence and I'd like to see him stick around.
Sydo Zandstra
10. Fiddler
In other review sites, I saw people commenting that Skye's mom being alive may imply we can expect to see Whitehall again too.
Chris Nelly
11. Aeryl
@7, They haven't said there is an Inhuman aboard the boat, this is supposition that could explain why they are all so afraid of powered people.

And the thing about Cal knowing she was alive, I've already read interviews about it, he knew. It's been explained that the loss of their child is why they split, and Cal deludedly believes that by finding Daisy he can reunite with Jianying.

The initial explanation about the gifted in Bahrain that earned May the name Cavalry was that they had some mind control powers and established a cult that May had to take out to get to her. My reading from the teaser is that she CAUSES pain, not just takes it.

Now whether she is the same person that could be the prisoner, I don't know. Gonzalez said May "took them down" but if she was taken prisoner, nothing would tick May off faster, IMO.
Chris Meadows
12. Robotech_Master
Here's an interesting thought. There are untold numbers of people out there with Inhuman potential. What if the terragen mist isn't the only way to unlock it? What if it could be unlocked with things like, say, vita-rays, or the closely-related gamma radiation? Or ice machines, or gravitonium, or whatever...

Maybe the real reason the Kree abandoned Earth was that their weapon program there was too successful. So maybe we're not quite as outgunned as Fury thought. Which, given the necessity of the Index and such, turns out not to be an unalloyed good thing.

Going to be interesting to see how this all leads into the Civil War.
Chris Nelly
13. Aeryl
@12, Well Lincoln did tell us that they go through Terregenesis without a Diviner
Chris Meadows
14. Robotech_Master
@13 Yeah, but the obvious supposition there is some kind of more modern terragen mist gas chamber. Since all the diviner really does is unlocks the ancient Kree temple's terragen mist dispenser.
Chris Nelly
15. Aeryl
@14, No, the mist is inside the Diviner, it just has to be taken to the temple to activate it
Chris Meadows
16. Robotech_Master
By the waaaay, here's a little something something I noticed through some googling and wiki walking.

That scientist Mike Peterson has been tracking down, the Dr. List who's been experimenting on metahumans?

We last saw him in "Aftershocks," a member of the Hydra round table whose members Coulson tricked into mostly killing each other.

But before that, we saw him in the post-credits stinger of Captain America: The Winter Soldier. The MCU wiki says he was also a major character in a MCU tie-in comic book linking Winter Soldier and Age of Ultron.

Experimenting on metahumans, indeed.
Chris Nelly
17. Aeryl
@16, I read an interview with Olmos who flat out said the next several weeks are leading straight into AoU so that makes sense.

I thought it was Lentz though
James Pratt
18. JamesP
After last year, I fully expected that this would work hand-in-hand with the story as set up in AoU. And it seems clear that it's building to the Civil War.

I don't have much to add to what's already been said, but Olmos' character strikes me as very much a short-term arc. I don't know about the rest of the RealSHIELD team, but I suspect that we won't be seeing Gonzales beyond the end of this season.
James Pratt
19. JamesP
Oh, and I second KalvinKingsley @7. I do not buy that May wouldn't have known that the gun was loaded.
Chris Nelly
20. Aeryl
@18, It's indicating stuff for Civil War, but from the horse's mouth, these events are going straight into AoU

And she knew the cartridge(the clip) was loaded, but there is no indication that there was a round in the chamber, and no way of knowing that without pulling back the slide.
Colin R
21. cdietz
First of I have to say I loved last nights episode. The second season of SHIELD has really kicked into high gear, and for me at least has become must watch television. Really excited with what they have done and where they are taking the show.

Now lets break down Afterlife a little bit.

First thought that came from last nights episode is how much I want Skye and Lincoln to get together. Lincoln came off just flirty enough for me to think there is some interest there, and it would be an interesting way for the Inhuman faction to be split. Those who think they should not be afraid and help people going with Skye and Lincoln, those who are afraid staying in the mountain retreat with Gordon and Skyemom.

Second is kind of tied into the comics. I dont read Marvel as much as I wished I did, so this is basically coming from online research done on characters that have been identified as having direct corolation in the comics. That being said, Doesnt Cal basically transform due to the drug he uses to get super strength? Thats what I have found online anyway. I am interested to see if we have not yet seen all that Cal can do.

Loved how Fitzsimmons got the cube away from Realshield, although how Fitz gets the cube into Coulsons hands is going to be interesting. Its not like Coulson has a phone number that you can look up in yellow pages anymore. Maybe Fitz knows something we dont.

The return of Mike was unexpected yet super awesome. His upgrades are bad ass and fit into what Coulson wants Shield to be. Loved his emp rockets that he used to take down the second quinjet(not sure if thats spelled right) and his encyclopedia mind. Interested to see what other tricks he has hiding in his mechanical body and the reunion of him and skye. They started the show afterall, and have always had what I describe as a good brother sister relationship.
Colin R
22. Sophist
I suspect there will be a split among the Inhumans, though I'm not as thrilled with Lincoln as you are. But Skye clearly has different goals than they do and I expect that will cause a rift. To me, the big issue is her mother: which side will she come down on? I can't predict yet, but I'm guessing there'll be conflict between her and Skye.
Chris Meadows
23. Robotech_Master
May and the gun, another possibility: she knew damned well it was loaded, but she's trying to play down her competency and get Gonzales to underestimate her. (Which, yeah, good luck with that, "Cavalry," but worth a try.)
Alan Brown
24. AlanBrown
It is clear that SHIELD has completely abandoned the classic format of an A story that is self contained in a single episode, and a B story that carries forward a longer story arc. The story has become a straight serial adventure, with each episode a cliffhanger leading into the next. This has definitely changed the character of the show, which was perhaps too episodic earlier in the first season. I do like the faster pace, and the fact that they don't tease us too long with mysteries or string stories out--balls that are in the air come back down pretty quickly. The juxtaposition of the day SHIELD fell with Bobbi and Mac's action in real time was a nice way to show us some of their backstory.
The SHIELD versus SHIELD story we are seeing is nicely nuanced. Neither side is really the good guys, although with Gonzalez starting to make comments that indicates he thinks powered individuals are something less than human, and one of his fellow leaders using real bullets on Skye instead of an icer, the pointySHIELD faction is getting less sympathetic as time goes on. Not to mention their decision to come in with guns blazing, rather than contact Coulson and try to hash things out. I can see the conflict in SHIELD not only leading to Age of Ultron, but also laying the seeds for Captain America: Civil War.
Coulson had been running out of comrades in the past few episodes, so it was nice to see Deathlok show up this week. And a more self-actualized Deathlok, with a costume that is definitely much improved over his original super-suit. I hope he sticks around for a while, as he has always been an interesting and sympathetic character.
I am not at all pleased to hear Coulson talking about working with Ward. To me, that crosses WAY too many ethical lines.
It was interesting to see Skye's mother back--her immortality powers also must come with some heavy duty healing powers, that brought her back to life after literally being cut to pieces by Whitehall. It was interesting to see her show affection for Cal, as he seems like a rather unsympathetic and unlikeable character. Perhaps he shows another side of his personality with her, although the blind teleporter guy doesn't seem to like Cal one bit.
The FitzSimmons bit where they faked everyone out was the best part of the show. The fact that they have put at least some of their differences behind them was heartwarming to see, and Coulson now has another ally back out in the field, and the MacGuffin headed back in his direction.
Looking forward to some real exciting stuff next week, as we see May and her "Cavalry" origin story.
Chris Meadows
25. Robotech_Master
One of the things I love about the series is the lengths it goes to provide you with closure. I can't say how happy I am that Fitz finally got to eat his sandwich. Maybe he'll mellow out a little more now.

(I'm firmly convinced that the real reason Fitz hated Ward so much was not that Ward brain-damaged and nearly killed him, but that he never forgave Ward for throwing Simmons's sandwich away that time they were out in the field together.)
Colin R
26. James Moar
cdietz@21: "That being said, Doesnt Cal basically transform due to the drug he uses to get super strength? Thats what I have found online anyway. I am interested to see if we have not yet seen all that Cal can do."
The comics version only has super strength when he transforms. Doesn't mean that they won't feature a transformation, but they've tinkered with how it works (and Cal's slightly dissolute look already seems like a toned-down version of the bestial appearance of Mr. Hyde)
Chris Nelly
27. Aeryl
@22 Absolutely there is going to be conflict. Jianying has had 20 years to fantasize about what her reunion with her daughter would be like, and these things never go as expected.

@24 Everybody keeps freaking out about the Ward thing, and I don't get it. This is textbook Coulson letting other people's obsessions do his work for him. And he's not talking about giving him a bunk on the Bus, he's talking about getting information from him.
Sydo Zandstra
28. Fiddler
@24 AlanBrown:

I am not at all pleased to hear Coulson talking about working with Ward. To me, that crosses WAY too many ethical lines.

That is why it was considered a bad option. ;)

On ethical stuff, I agree with you. However, Coulson seems to have a clearer view on the big picture than Gonzalez and friends do.

And he is willing to deal with the devil if it can get him the results he thinks are needed. I would probably do the same.

Coulson shows more empathy than RealShield. Remember he orders Lance to only use icers.
Chris Meadows
30. Robotech_Master
I'm betting that spinoff focuses on Deathlok. He's about the only semi-major character who could carry a whole separate series built around him. And the fact that they're bringing him back now in a major role suggests he's primed for bigger things.
Chris Nelly
31. Aeryl
@30, It looks to me that they are considering a mid season fill in, a la Agent Carter. Which bums because I NEED MOAR AGENT CARTER
Colin R
32. James Moar
I NEED MOAR AGENT CARTER
Hey, don't bring me into this....
Harriet Vane
33. hdvane
Deathlok is great, but I agree with @31 Aeryl: MORE PEGGY!!!
Chris Meadows
34. Robotech_Master
More Peggy would be nice, but I gather the ratings for the first Peggy may not have been all that. I'd think if they were doing it they'd say so.

I've seen speculation elsewhere that it might be an Inhumans series, but I just don't see that. Dealing with Inhumans is the main series's brief, and they wouldn't want to dilute that.
Chris Nelly
35. Aeryl
@34, It didn't do too well in the ratings, but they hardly marketed it and was never even shown in several markets where it would have done well(someone from Ireland told me today they had to bootleg it).

And what it does have is a rabid fan base*waves hands energetically*. The company that made her lipstick SOLD OUT because the fans found out where it came from and Stetson saw an uptick in sales because we wanted her hat. They'd be stupid to ignore that, and the opportunity to bring some more Golden Age characters to life.

They need to establish a Marvel show during all seasons, IMO. AoS for Fall/Spring, an mini like AC for Winter Break, and now something in the summer. Keep the interest in Marvel up all year long, especially now with movies coming out all year, instead of just summer.
Colin R
36. scm of 2814
On What's On the Aircraft Carrier: So, I was watching Thor: The Dark World last night, and there was the stinger about the giant jotunheim monster chasing pigeons, and it occurs to me we never got onscreen closure about that thing...

I like how ambivalent they're playing Simmons. On the one hand, ew, fantastic racism (because when you show the real thing on TV, people can overreact nowadays)! On the other hand, she's LOYAL, and while she might sometimes come off as a hypocrite (powers are BAD! Except when it's Skye, cause she's a friend!), she's also a good character study in a person trying to resolve two conflicting ideologies she feels strongly about. Unlike Gonzalez and 'real' SHIELD (and am I the only one who gets 'compensating for something' vibes whenever they use that exact phrase), while she's anti-powers, she's against the POWERS and not the people with them. She brings up legitimate medical concerns concerning a relatively unstudied (not counting attempts to weaponize) phenomenon which has been shown to be capable of hurting the people WHO HAVE THEM. She comes off as a doctor who genuinely wishes to help but at the moment has only been left with amputation as a treatment: everything sucks.

On the Hunter question, I think Coulson signed him up for the same reason he did Skye. Think about it: Hunter's character arc is basically a watered-down version of Skye's arc in the last season, except with no powers. Or at least shares a lot of elements: he's the (relatively) naive newcomer, slowly becomes part of the team, love interests turns out to be a 'traitor'...

On Lincoln: STOP ASSUMING! Sheesh, dude. Either Gordon dropped the ball or Gordon deliberately didn't tell Skye all the stuff Lincoln assumes she should know because the ominous 'elders' are going to kill her.
Alan Brown
37. AlanBrown
If we can't have another Peggy Carter midseason replacement series, I want a Howling Commandos midseason replacement series, with Peggy and Jarvis joining them on some of their missions. More adventures with Dum Dum Dugan in the post WWII era!
Chris Meadows
38. Robotech_Master
Just rewatched the whole "You want me to leave" scene. And really, in retrospect, it is such a brilliant piece of writing that I imagine whoever was responsible was probably hard to live with for a few days after that. Every line has an obvious surface meaning, and then when you go back through it after you know what's up, it has an even more obvous double meaning. Amazing. Damned fine work.

Subscribe to this thread

Receive notification by email when a new comment is added. You must be a registered user to subscribe to threads.
Post a comment