Rachel Dolezal tells NBC's Savannah Guthrie 'I am definitely not white'

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Dolezal told NBC News' Savannah Guthrie that she 'can't prove' Larry and Ruthanne Dolezal are her parents because there's 'no biological proof'
She also said that 'nothing about white describes who I am'
Of her changed appearance, she told the Today Show'I don't stay out of the sun' and revealed that her hair is a weave
In another interview with MSNBC she said she felt a 'spiritual connection to the black experience'
The 37-year-old started pretending to be black in 2007 and even claimed she was black on a job application form
She stepped down as leader from NAACP's Spokane chapter on Monday, four days after her estranged parents outed her as white

By Lydia Warren For Dailymail.com and Dailymail.com Reporter

Published: 07:23 EST, 16 June 2015 | Updated: 06:11 EST, 17 June 2015

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Rachel Dolezal has suggested that she might not be totally white because she hasn't 'had a DNA test'.

The beleaguered civil rights activist told NBC News' Savannah Guthrie on Tuesday that she 'can't prove' that Larry and Ruthanne Dolezal are her parents because 'there's been no biological proof'.

'I'm not saying I can't prove they're not, but I can't prove that they are,' said Dolezal, who had just a day earlier resigned as president of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People's (NAACP's) Spokane chapter amid the controversy over her racial identity.

She continued: 'The birth certificate was issued a month and a half after I'm born. There are no medical witnesses to my birth - it was in the woods.

'I just don't feel like i can necessarily say, with full scrutiny, 'Can you prove that you are Larry and Ruthanne's child?' That's never actually been proven.

'I am definitely not white. Nothing about being white describes who I am.'

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Can't be sure: Rachel Dolezal told NBC News' Savanna Guthrie that she 'can't prove' her parents are her biological parents because she hasn't had a DNA test and there's 'no biological proof'

Speaking out: Rachel Dolezal, the former leader of NAACP's Spokane branch who was outed as white last week, appeared on the Today show on Tuesday and said that she first started identifying as black at age 5

Unapologetic: Today show host Matt Lauer quizzed the beleaguered civil rights leader on if she had changed her appearance to appear black and she conceded: 'I don't stay out of the sun'

Doing the rounds: She told MSNBC that she felt a 'spiritual' connection to the 'black experience'

'I have a huge issue with blackface': Rachel Dolezal speaks out

Earlier in the day, Dolezal insisted that she is 'definitely not white' as she slammed suggestions that she is taking part in 'some mockery blackface performance' as she appeared on the Today show.

In the unapologetic live interview - her first since the start of the scandal - Dolezal said she would do nothing differently if her younger self knew what she knows now, claiming that her life has been about making choices for her 'survival'.

When asked by Today host Matt Lauer if presenting herself as a black woman for years was akin to wearing blackface, she insisted that was not the case.

'I have a huge issue with blackface,' she said. 'This is not some freak 'Birth of a Nation' mockery blackface performance. This is on a very real, connected level. I've had to go there with the experience, not just a visible representation.'

Dolezal was also asked by Melissa Harris-Perry on MSNBC if she was black and she responded simply: 'Yes.'

She said that she had always felt a 'spiritual, visceral' connection to 'the black experience'.

'From a very young age I felt a spiritual, visceral, instinctual connection with black is beautiful,' she said. 'Just the black experience and wanting to celebrate that...

'I was socially conditioned to not own that and to be limited to whatever biological identity was thrust upon me and narrated to me, and so I kind of felt pretty awkward a lot of the time with that.'

She told Harris-Perry, however, that she doesn't like the phrase 'transracial'.

From a very young age I felt a spiritual, visceral, instinctual connection with black is beautiful

'That's saying all lives matter. All lives matter, everybody's life matters, but that's why we have to say 'Black lives matter because the highest dis-proportionality, police brutality, disenfranchisement, education... all of this is targeting what the highest rate of causalities in the black communities.

'Black lives matter is the corrective to what's happening. To have the hashtag transracial lives matter is kind of a diversion from that. so I don't think that's what I'm about.'

On the Today show, she claimed that she first started seeing herself as black when she was five.

'I was drawing self portraits with the brown crayon rather than the peach crayon, and black curly hair,' she said. 'That was how I was portraying myself.'

But when Lauer held up a photo of Dolezal as a teen - with blonde hair and a fair complexion - she conceded that she looked like a white person and that she was not identifying as black at the time.

Her estranged parents, who outed her as white last week, have previously said that she began 'disguising' herself as black around 2007.

'It's a weave!': Rachel Dolezal answers everyone's question

All smiles: Dolezal can be seen grinning on the Today show set ahead of a busy day of interviews

By her side: She was seen at the studio with her two sons, Izaiah and Franklin, following the interview

Support: Her two sons, Franklin (left) and Izaiah (right), appeared on the Today show with her. She claimed that when she took Izaiah in as her own son, she could no longer plausibly be a black woman

But in the interview, she would not answer questions about how she has changed her appearance to seem black. Her hair is worn in tight brown curls - a far cry from the blonde locks of her youth.

'I certainly don't stay out of the sun,' she offered.

Speaking to NBC BLK, she admitted her hair was a weave.

Dolezal added that her black identity was solidified more recently when she took in her adopted brother, Izaiah, and started bringing him up as her son. Izaiah, a high school student, is black.

As a child, I was drawing self-portraits with the brown crayon rather than the peach crayon. That was how I was portraying myself

'He said, 'you're my real mom' and for that to be something that is plausible I certainly can't be seen as white and be Izaiah's mum,' she posited.

Her sons were both with her in New York City for the interview. As well as Izaiah, she has a biological African-American son, Franklin, with her ex-husband.

'I actually was talking to one of my sons yesterday and he said, 'mom, racially you're human and culturally you're black',' she said. 'I do know that they support the way I identify.'

She also answered other questions about her family, namely the claim that an African-American man is her father. On Facebook, she has identified Albert Wilkerson - a black man - as her dad, despite the fact that her biological father, Larry Dolezal, is white.

She told Lauer that she first met Wilkerson at an event in North Idaho and 'we just connected on a very intimate level as family'.

On camera: She also spoke with Savannah Guthrie on Monday in an interview that will air on NBC Nightly News on Thursday evening. In the interview, she said that she is 'definitely not white'

Denial: After she appeared on the Today show, her parents told CNN that some of her statements had again been false, including how she drew herself with a brown crayon when she was five years old

'Albert Wilkerson is my dad,' she said. 'Every man can be a father; not every man can be a dad.'

When asked if she would do anything differently knowing the uproar that her situation has caused, she said that she might have approached a few interviews differently. She admitted that she had failed to correct articles that identified her as 'trans-racial', 'bi-racial' or 'black' in the past.

'But overall my life has been one of survival and the decisions that I have made along the way have been to survive,' she claimed.

Overall my life has been one of survival and the decisions that I have made along the way have been to survive

And she added that she took 'exception' to the accusation that she had deceived people about her face, saying: 'It's a little more complex than me identifying as black or answering a question of, are you black or white?'

Speaking with MSNBC she said that she understood people's anger towards her but 'they don't know me'.

'They really don't know what I've actually walked through and how hard it is. This has not been something that just is a casual, you know, come-and-go sort of identity, you know, or an identity crisis.'

She said that her story - and the 'viciously inhumane way' it came out - will hopefully start a conversation about 'what it is to be human'.

'I hope that that can drive at the core of definitions of race, ethnicity, culture, self determination, personal agency and, ultimately, empowerment,' she told the Today show.

'Family': She has previously identified this man, Albert Wilkerson, right, as her father even though her real father is white. In the interview, she said that she sees Wilkerson as her dad

Now and then: Dolezal's parents have released photos of their daughter when she was young, including the one seen here. On the Today show she said she was not identifying as black as a teenager

In response to her claims on the interview, Dolezal's biological father, Larry Dolezal, said she is lying about drawing herself with brown crayons.

He told TMZ that it never happened and that she only thought of herself as black when she was in her 20s and 30s.

Mr Dolezal, who has adopted four children of color, also responded to her suggestion that she had to think of herself as black after taking in Izaiah by saying: 'What would you think if I said to you since I adopted 4 African-American children I'm going to identify as black?'

I certainly don't stay out of the sun

Dolezal on her altered appearance

Her mother Ruthanne told CNN that she found the interview on the Today show 'disturbing because the false statements continue'.

'As much as we're concerned with her identity issues we're also concerned with her integrity issues,' she said.

Her brother Ezra has also disputed her account about the brown crayons.

'She has done all of this in the last two to four years,' he said. 'Growing up in high school is probably when she started becoming interested in African-American studies, but she actually never considered herself black.'

Dolezal broke her silence just a day after she posted an unapologetic resignation letter to Spokane's NAACP Facebook page.

'It is with complete allegiance to the cause of racial and social justice and the NAACP that I step aside from the Presidency and pass the baton to my Vice President,' she wrote.

Dolezal's parents: Rachel tried to 'damage her biological family'

On her way: She was spotted catching a flight out of Spokane on Monday evening, pictured, as it emerged that she will appear on multiple programs in New York to talk about the race scandal

'It is my hope that by securing a beautiful office for the organization in the heart of downtown, bringing the local branch into financial compliance, catalyzing committees to do strategic work in the five Game Changer issues, launching community forums, putting the membership on a fast climb, and helping many individuals find the legal, financial and practical support needed to fight race-based discrimination, I have positioned the Spokane NAACP to buttress this transition.'

Despite the revelations, NAACP stood behind Dolezal in its own statement last week, but some members of her local chapter supported her decision to step down.

She also no longer works for Eastern Washington University, where she had taught Africana studies.

It's a little more complex than me identifying as black or answering a question of, are you black or white?

It is still not known if she will also leave her role on the city's police oversight committee.

On Friday, police said they were suspending investigations into racial harassment complaints Dolezal has previously filed, including one from earlier this year in which she said she received hate mail at her office.

Police released files showing that that a hate mail package did not bear a date stamp or barcode, meaning it was probably not handled by the post office.

Dolezal is also facing a city ethics probe for falsely claiming on an application for a city police role that she was black.

Her parents, who told the truth about her heritage when approached by a reporter last week, appeared on the Today show on Monday and said they hoped to reconcile with their daughter.

'We hope that Rachel will get the help that she needs to deal with her identity issues,' her mother, Ruthanne Dolezal, said.

Rachel Dolezal's false claim that black father fled Deep South

NO APOLOGIES: RACHEL DOLEZAL'S NAACP RESIGNATION LETTER

Dear Executive Committee and NAACP Members,

It is a true honor to serve in the racial and social justice movement here in Spokane and across the nation. Many issues face us now that drive at the theme of urgency. Police brutality, biased curriculum in schools, economic disenfranchisement, health inequities, and a lack of pro-justice political representation are among the concerns at the forefront of the current administration of the Spokane NAACP. And yet, the dialogue has unexpectedly shifted internationally to my personal identity in the context of defining race and ethnicity.

I have waited in deference while others expressed their feelings, beliefs, confusions and even conclusions - absent the full story. I am consistently committed to empowering marginalized voices and believe that many individuals have been heard in the last hours and days that would not otherwise have had a platform to weigh in on this important discussion. Additionally, I have always deferred to the state and national NAACP leadership and offer my sincere gratitude for their unwavering support of my leadership through this unexpected firestorm.

While challenging the construct of race is at the core of evolving human consciousness, we can NOT afford to lose sight of the five Game Changers (Criminal Justice & Public Safety, Health & Healthcare, Education, Economic Sustainability, and Voting Rights & Political Representation) that affect millions, often with a life or death outcome. The movement is larger than a moment in time or a single person's story, and I hope that everyone offers their robust support of the Journey for Justice campaign that the NAACP launches today!

I am delighted that so many organizations and individuals have supported and collaborated with the Spokane NAACP under my leadership to grow this branch into one of the healthiest in the nation in 5 short months. In the eye of this current storm, I can see that a separation of family and organizational outcomes is in the best interest of the NAACP.

It is with complete allegiance to the cause of racial and social justice and the NAACP that I step aside from the Presidency and pass the baton to my Vice President, Naima Quarles-Burnley. It is my hope that by securing a beautiful office for the organization in the heart of downtown, bringing the local branch into financial compliance, catalyzing committees to do strategic work in the five Game Changer issues, launching community forums, putting the membership on a fast climb, and helping many individuals find the legal, financial and practical support needed to fight race-based discrimination, I have positioned the Spokane NAACP to buttress this transition.

Please know I will never stop fighting for human rights and will do everything in my power to help and assist, whether it means stepping up or stepping down, because this is not about me. It's about justice. This is not me quitting; this is a continuum. It's about moving the cause of human rights and the Black Liberation Movement along the continuum from Resistance to Chattel Slavery to Abolition to Defiance of Jim Crow to the building of Black Wall Street to the Civil Rights and Black Power Movement to the ‪#‎BlackLivesMatter‬ movement and into a future of self-determination and empowerment.

With much love and a commitment to always fight for what is right and good in this world,

Rachel Dolezal