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[–]splanchnick78 17 points18 points  (92 children)

ETA: I deleted this.

ETA: I am un-deleting. Deleteanddeplete is most assuredly not EP.

[–]Barking_Madness 7 points8 points  (0 children)

FWICT that's a pretty safe bet.

[–]Frosted_Mini-WheatsBootedfromLeakinParkRangers:( 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fwiw, I don't believe tha eithert. Deleteanddeplete was recommended for membership in NU by EP (as were you) as someone who had done some interesting research. I do not believe EP is any other poster.

[–]julieannie 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I was a little miffed when the mass booting happened from both subs but now I feel like I was lucky to miss out on all of this. I really don't understand why everyone keeps using coded language though. Just say what you mean and be who you are. This is why I'm a lurker now.

[–]theghostoftexschramm 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Hmmmm.....three of these people in your post sent me IMs in the last 24. Should I be worried?

[–]ScoutFinch2 22 points23 points  (73 children)

For all that you all criticize us (guilters), I can honestly say we don't have none of this shit going on.

[–]dirtybitsxxx 15 points16 points  (8 children)

Remember that one time someone posted something that not all of us agreed with and we politely agreed to disagree but thanked them for the effort? Wild times.

[–]whitenoise2323 10 points11 points  (7 children)

Sounds really similar to the first time the MVA theory came up in Bonner. Except "not all of us" was "none of us".

[–]ADDGemini 6 points7 points  (6 children)

What is the MVA theory if you don't mind me asking.

[–]ImBlowingBubbles 2 points3 points  (5 children)

I was wondering this same thing

[–]whitenoise2323 14 points15 points  (4 children)

Motor Vehicle Accident theory. Someone popped up saying that Stephanie hit Hae's car and killed her by accident and hyped it hard saying that it made all of the weird puzzling aspects of the case make sense. It was brought up in Bonner and everyone was like... um.. I guess that's interesting but here's 10 ways it makes no sense at all. There is an unsubstantiated claim that this was Evidence Prof's pet theory. I have no idea why people think that.

[–]ADDGemini 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you

[–]dirtybitsxxx 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Appreciate the clarification. Ive been doing a ton of weird acronym guessing.

Most Valuable Athlete?

Manual Vacuum Aspiration?

Music Video Award?

[–]Tu-Stultus-Es 8 points9 points  (16 children)

Maybe we should get together and do a trade. Anything you guys want to unload in exchange for taking this bullshit off our hands?

[–]ScoutFinch2 12 points13 points  (15 children)

Not a chance.

[–]bluekanga 9 points10 points  (0 children)

seconded!! too good to watch

[–]Tu-Stultus-Es 5 points6 points  (8 children)

Yeah, I don't blame you.

[–]peymax1693Verification is for Sucks 6 points7 points  (7 children)

Me either . . .

[–]ScoutFinch2 6 points7 points  (6 children)

You can still turn away from the dark and come into the light, peymax.

[–]peymax1693Verification is for Sucks 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Ha - I can't do it.

[–]Tu-Stultus-Es 3 points4 points  (2 children)

We actually have a whole different vocabulary for that.

[–]Mrs_Direction 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Care to share? Is it something negative to shame those who change their opinion?

[–]Tu-Stultus-Es 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just a "light/dark"/"dark/light" joke.

[–]julieannie 10 points11 points  (7 children)

I suppose you don't quite have the socking going on but there's some people who have conspiracy theories and a heightened sense of self-importance on that side of the aisle. I used to be part of TMP/NU but didn't participate enough and got booted so I missed all this stuff. The guilters seem content to put it all on the main sub while the other side seems to hide some of their crazier moments a little better. Both sides and their drama are the reason I switched to lurker only.

[–]Sophiawithin 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The other side saves their crazy stuff for their podcasts.

[–]chunklunk 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Guilty as charged on the self-importance front. I AM SUPER IMPORTANT.

[–]MightyIsobel 8 points9 points  (3 children)

while the other side seems to hide some of their crazier moments a little better

you don't say

[–]TheFraulineS 10 points11 points  (2 children)

btw, full body tinfoil wrap-meeting in 15 minutes

[–]flwrsme 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Right?? Im reading this like holly fuck! And then hoping to not see anyone like you or SD or JWI mentioned in this fuckery... and no one is.

IDK.. if the "innocent" camp needs to go thru all this just to prove innocence, I would stop trying to smear the state and BPD for the exact stuff they are doing. SS should be ashamed of herself.

[–]ScoutFinch2 8 points9 points  (1 child)

And then hoping to not see anyone like you or SD or JWI mentioned in this fuckery... and no one is.

I wasn't worried about it for a second.

[–]Seamus_Duncan 10 points11 points  (22 children)

I know right? I like all of the guilters, except for /u/chunklunk. Asshole.

[–]TheFraulineS 8 points9 points  (2 children)


[–]Seamus_Duncan 7 points8 points  (1 child)

You can shove that negativity straight into your pointy hat!

[–]TheFraulineS 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Haha, I thought I was a Hun to you?! Liar! Get the hat right or else....!

[–]chunklunk 7 points8 points  (18 children)

Silence or I will reveal all our secrets!!!

[–]ricejoe 12 points13 points  (0 children)


[–]tuppence_beresfordBooted from TMP :( 19 points20 points  (33 children)

I can at least speak to my experience as a mod on the very first day of TMP. Someone thought the Jane information was important enough to warn the mods about, and when I wanted to discuss the allegations and a solution going forward, I was overruled by alwaysbelagertha and ultimately removed from mod duties for disagreeing. That approach and attitude was extended to every portion of TMP over time, and long-time contributors were removed left and right for speaking their minds. The sad part is that no one could know what was going on unless the booted person went to another forum to tell everyone what happened. Then they were labelled as pot-stirrers and the mods would say, "Oh look, see? That person was a problem all along. We made the right decision."

Sadly, there wasn't any other way to handle being removed other than remaining quiet. Sound familiar? Does it sound like every other totalitarian dictatorship in history? Yeah, to me too. Meanwhile, few still inside TMP wanted to speak up even if they didn't agree with the way things were being handled for fear of being removed themselves.

It's been sad to see the poor leadership at TMP, and even worse to be removed from the community I've been a part of for so many months for no good reason.

Thanks for bringing all this out into the open, doo. Maybe now we can have a real conversation about it.

[–]SWVeering 9 points10 points  (3 children)

It's been sad to see the poor leadership at TMP, and even worse to be removed from the community I've been a part of for so many months for no good reason.

Late to the party as per usual but I guess here is as good a place as any in this thread to start.

FWIW and for anyone who cares to listen, Tup_Beresford's story is basically my story also. I was removed from TMP and was told by /u/alwaysbelagertha that it was because FrostedMiniWheats had "harassed her" on a thread in SerialDiscussion and because I was a former NU Mod apparently that equalled a "conflict of interest" (WTF?!) I asked her not to include me in her personal drama's with other Redditors and then she told me my banning had also to do with a snarky comment I supposedly made about her. I couldn't remember ever saying anything snarky to her so I asked TMP friends to check my posting history and they couldn't find a single thing. I asked ABL several times to remind me of the "snarky comment" on TMP but she never produced anything because quite frankly, it doesn't exist there.

No chance to pled my case. No acknowledgement of the help I offered and gave when TMP was established. I'm also another one that warned ABL about the Sock Situation which she obviously ignored. Yet apparently TMP's ongoing mole woes have everything to do with other Redditors and nothing to do with her decision to disregard the many warnings she received.

Being cut off from a community that I was part of and enjoyed for so long, for want of a better word, sucks. It's both sad and hilarious that ABL can't see the hypocrisy in her actions.

TL;DR - yet another person with a hurt butt.

[–]orangetheorychaos 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Why don't all the banned tmp people just start another sub?

[–]InTheory_ 7 points8 points  (1 child)

You mean revive NU with members who are all banned from TMP?

Already done. The TMP mods tried to get the Reddit admins to forcibly take control of the sub. They felt it was "theirs"

[–]TheHerodotusMachine 5 points6 points  (0 children)

whaaat. man you guys were very legitimately harassed. So sorry.

[–]dukeofwentworth 16 points17 points  (27 children)

It's been sad to see the poor leadership at TMP, and even worse to be removed from the community I've been a part of for so many months for no good reason.


While I have moved on, this post reminds me of the time I was accused of being a sock for Ghostoftomlandry or whatever. Zero proof, but I was accused just the same. And when I went public to address it, I had the post removed and received a PM admonition from the mods (specifically, ABL).

ETA: Following this post, I've been removed from TMP.

ETA: I've been readmitted to TMP.

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 11 points12 points  (3 children)

"We don't boot people from TMP because they question us!"- ABL

promptly boots dukeofwentworth from TMP

[–]wayobsessed 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Also the exact reason why I got booted. "I will be honest with you, some of your comments on the magnet rang alarm bells for me".

The comment ABL was referring to was me being critical about the baseless sock accusations flying around all over TMP by the mods. After explaining my post and how it may have been misconstrued I was asked to doxx myself in order to get access again. And that wasn't really worth it for me because I did not see the point. It's okay to disagree with TMP as long as they know how to find me?

[–]TheHerodotusMachine 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry. I'm sure you know, but you can report the user asking you to self-dox to Reddit Admin. As /u/swveering said, that is certainly not cool.

[–]SWVeering 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I was asked to doxx myself in order to get access again. And that wasn't really worth it for me because I did not see the point. It's okay to disagree with TMP as long as they know how to find me?

Yikes. THAT is not cool.

[–]InTheory_ 7 points8 points  (1 child)

ETA: Following this post, I've been removed from TMP.

That's impossible. They don't ban people for that. I know this because they've told us so at every opportunity.

Each day, fewer and fewer people are left over there to repeat the mantra of "No, people don't get banned for that." And each day, there are more and more people saying, "Actually, yes they do!"

At what point do we realize that the number of people coming forward citing hypocrisy is outnumbering the people denying it?

For anyone reading this who is out of the loop, I can personally vouch that duke was anything but a dissident.

[–]YaYa2015 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Duke just got re-admitted!

[–]jjungsch 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Wow that is a clear signal for no one else to speak up, what a shame. Sorry you had to deal with that kind of stuff.

[–]ScoutFinch2 4 points5 points  (1 child)

And you actually want back in?

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

You're welcome Tupp. My intention was to show that the mass-hysteria and finger-pointing was not only wrong, but that all the warning signs right in front of their faces was being missed. The contradictions in values was extraordinary with the constant allegations of doxxing, but no real questioning the ethics if it was done by someone on Team Good Guys. The constant allegations of sock puppetry and heinous behavior was embarrassing, especially considering that more and more socks kept sliding under the door at TMP. Show your proof, Magnets. Put up or shut up.

[–]MrsTiggyWiggy 13 points14 points  (18 children)

I hate myself for not documenting all the drama associated with serialpodcast and writing a social psychology article.

[–]bluekanga 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Me 2 - today on serialpodcast…..

[–]TheFraulineS 4 points5 points  (14 children)

No kidding! I was seriously entertaining the thought, if I could just scratch the topic of my dissertation to change it into something about this reddit phenomenon in general.

[–]MrsTiggyWiggy 4 points5 points  (1 child)

And it would be so publishable! The media loves talking about reddit.

Every time the secret subs, the sock puppets, the doxxing comes along--I think "darn it, I should have been documenting this but too late now". And, then something else happens!

[–]TheFraulineS 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah :( it's impossible to create a coherent and truthfull picture with all these conspiracy theories and the deceit....

[–]cross_mod 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Yeah, it is incredibly entertaining at least...

[–]MrsTiggyWiggy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

704 comments! There aren't many threads about the actual case that got this much commentary.

[–]TheHerodotusMachine 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I'd like to say kudos to the current/former TMP people for speaking their minds. I have no doubt it was hard to do in what meant to be a safe, secret, space and it sounds like you got castigated for speaking up for what you saw as shitty behavior.

[–]chunklunk 10 points11 points  (50 children)

I knew it!

[–]TheFraulineS 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Popcorn time!

[–]chunklunk 6 points7 points  (3 children)

I am literally eating popcorn as we speak.

[–]segovius 3 points4 points  (44 children)

Me too

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 4 points5 points  (43 children)

Just curious...which part?

[–]segovius 12 points13 points  (3 children)

That TMP was/is full of socks.

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Sadly, yes. Quite the puppet show it would seem. Let them figure out why, I guess.

[–]segovius 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Yes, there are decent people there and that's good but they forget to factor in one thing, they are dealing peripherally with un-decent people.

There's a Sufi saying that goes something like "If you pick up a bee due to kindness, you will learn the limitations of kindness."

[–]dukeofwentworth 3 points4 points  (0 children)

There's a Sufi saying that goes something like "If you pick up a bee due to kindness, you will learn the limitations of kindness."

I like this!

[–]Frosted_Mini-WheatsBootedfromLeakinParkRangers:( 4 points5 points  (38 children)

Interesting response from segovius. While TMP might be full of socks, what is and always has been wrong is that those socks are me or anyone associated with me. It seems like a stroke of genius for ABL to accuse me of being those socks (external threat creates internal cohesion, yeah?) - creating a bond in TMP, whose members already reviled me for "killing" NarcoticsUnit (which I never actually did, just curated the membership a bit more thoughtfully). I don't think it was ABL being a sociological genius but ABL being led around by the nose by the true queen of socks.

[–]timdragga 11 points12 points  (2 children)

So I did get removed from NU! This is all about me!

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Let them all tizzy about now. I have no intention of arguing with anyone, and they can take away what they want from the post (not meaning Segovius, but the rest of them). Seems most enjoy being there for venting and talking shit, anyway.

[–]peymax1693Verification is for Sucks 10 points11 points  (23 children)

Oh, so you didn't shut NU down, you just excluded a ton of people, including people like me who weren't socks but weren't deemed worthy of inclusion.

[–]segovius 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I hope you know I'm not calling you on that or accusing you of being a sock FMW.

[–]slapplesauced 10 points11 points  (7 children)

Booted member of TMP and Bonner here. Nothing to say but that this is a beautiful shitshow.

[–]Tu-Stultus-Es 3 points4 points  (5 children)

What'd you do?

[–]slapplesauced 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Lurked too much, allegedly.

[–]Kforstmosaics 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I was booted from TMP for lurking too! And my rebuttal that actually someone who posts a lot could be a sock puppet as well as a lurker fell on deaf ears. There was some major paranoia goin round.

[–]slapplesauced 7 points8 points  (0 children)

In my case they said lurking when it was probably more as retaliation for something someone else did. It was alarmingly petty. But yeah, paranoia abounds in that sub. And you're totally right that active users in there are just as likely to be socks as the lurkers are.

[–]Tu-Stultus-Es 3 points4 points  (1 child)


You lurk like that, they put you in jail. Right away.

[–]bluekanga 7 points8 points  (28 children)

Do we get to choose who to ban?

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 4 points5 points  (12 children)

Choose whatever you want in your own sub. Reddit is one, big Choose-Your-Own-Adventure book. Choose wisely.

[–]bluekanga 5 points6 points  (11 children)

Can you do this every week - sort of spectator event?

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 10 points11 points  (10 children)

Sorry, I'm afraid I don't have much else aside from gossip. Additionally, after being told that people don't get booted from /r/TheMagnetProgram for questioning with the mods, I was booted from /r/TheMagnetProgram for questioning with the mods. Hard to believe, right? I won't be privy to any more posts from /u/theodoreadorno wildly pointing fingers at anyone and everyone of being a sock of /u/chunklunk and /u/frosted_mini-wheats. God forbid anyone question the validity of her posts in there, though.

[–]bluekanga 10 points11 points  (9 children)

Sounds like Big Brother - or Big Sister!!

Well we could meet for a weekly gossip - thing is I hate to spill the beans - I don't know any Quilter socks - they're all real people AFAIK - bound together in a common focus - the truth.

And it's great getting to know them as individuals and working together on stuff - nice atmosphere.

So spill the beans - what's this thing with HarleyQuinn that the socks (?) reacted to

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 12 points13 points  (8 children)

I have no idea what the deal was with harleyquinn aside from that user being fingered as everyone ABL didn't like. I'm sure that now that this has happened, I'm really harleyquinn, which is impossible, because I'm really Frosted Mini-Wheats, who is really Justwonderinif, who is really Jay (or Urick) who is really the person who kidnapped Hae and took her back to Korea and put a body in her stead knowing that no DNA would be tested against her family members when they found said body. Basically, I'm in a relationship with reddit and it's complicated.

[–]bluekanga 6 points7 points  (7 children)

So who's in TMP then apart from the socks?

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 6 points7 points  (6 children)

Colonel Mustard, Mrs. Peacock, Miss Scarlett, Mrs. White, Mr. Green, Professor Plum and Mr. Body.

[–]bluekanga 6 points7 points  (4 children)

chicken ;)

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

That was sarcasm, not chickenism, because who knows? I never took inventory of who was in there. The bloggers are there, the mods are there, and a bunch of other people who like the bloggers.

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Actually, go to /r/theundisclosedpodcast and look for "bravo!" and "well said". That's probably the easiest way to find TMP's users.

[–]dcrizoss 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You got a letter and you got a letter and you got a letter...

[–]chunklunk 6 points7 points  (14 children)

Someone needs to set up a bracket. Or a Thunderdome.

[–]bluekanga 3 points4 points  (12 children)

What and put them all in it?

[–]chunklunk 7 points8 points  (11 children)

Well, looks like there would only be one or two actual people.

[–]bluekanga 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm still trying to work out how to edit that bloody list!!

[–]Jefferson_Arbles 18 points19 points  (4 children)

This seems like a weird attempt to admonish reddit drama by dumping on a bunch more reddit drama.

[–]orangetheorychaos 9 points10 points  (70 children)

I wish I would have received that day pass to the tmp. Is this what it's like?

[–]InTheory_ 12 points13 points  (54 children)

Looking over this thread, I see that this question never actually got answered. So I'll have a go at it.

Believe it or not, it's quite boring there. This has been discussed at length in /r/serialdiscussion.

And one of the reasons for it being boring is that the overwhelming majority of activity falls under the category of "Good job Undisclosed team, you really showed them" or incessant whining about the Dark Sub. For a sub that claims not to care what happens there, they sure spend a lot of time obsessing about it.

All the juicy gossip that you're hearing about is stuff that's going on behind the scenes.

People get banned, and they make an announcement about it in TMP that is in no way reflective of the real reasons for the banning (and has little bearing on reality at all). But there's so much secrecy and misinformation, no one knows what the real story is or what to believe. Without any insider knowledge, the only option is to take the mod's word at face value.

People are talking about the case in a sub they don't control, and the TMP mods feel that they have some kind of proprietary ownership of the other sub (yes, they tried getting the Reddit admins to forcibly take ownership of a sub they didn't control -- additionally, the mods made demands of the mods over at /r/serialdiscussion). Apparently they want to control any and all conversation about the case, whether or not the conversation is on their sub. But unless you've got a source to give you access to the mod mail, this all goes on invisibly (heads up TMP, the first thing the admins do is contact the mods of the sub you're trying to take control of, you can't do it anonymously). Most people don't even know they attempted such a coup.

How many more people have to come forward with stories? Every single person has a different story to tell depending on how it affected them and what they happen to know about. Are they trying to say those people are ALL lying?

So, in the end, everyone there knows there's a ton of issues below the surface, and the mods have forced them to collectively ignore them. As such, meaningful conversation is severely stifled. End result: a very boring sub with a boatload of drama behind the scenes.

EDIT: spelling

[–]orangetheorychaos 4 points5 points  (52 children)

So sounds like what I really want is a backstage pass ;)

To be serious for a moment- at this point, with all the documents available, with it sounds like more on their way, why is the TMP still relevant or necessary?

yes, they tried getting the Reddit admins to forcibly take ownership of a sub they didn't control

Which sub is this? The main one?

[–]InTheory_ 7 points8 points  (20 children)

When NU was revived and repurposed.

There's a provision on Reddit that allows people to try to take control of an abandoned sub. They tried to use that provision to weasel their way into the sub.

If it was a harmless gesture to see if the sub was truly abandoned, why not just message the mods and politely ask "Hey, are you guys active over there?"

Instead, they cry to the admins that "the owner shut down the sub without warning."

If it was a case of one mod acting stupidly, how come no apology was made? How come ABL didn't come forward and say "Just to let you know, this person did this without our knowledge, we do apologize and would not like to see ill will develop"?

Needless to say, the Reddit admins decided that the creator of a sub actually DOES own it. That's not up for negotiation or discussion. That's just the way Reddit works. There is NO case to be made for the feeling that NU was "our" sub. The creator flat out owns it, period.

Additionally, appealing to the admins isn't done confidentially. So after it was done, the admins sent a message to the mods. So there's no dispute that the events happened or what was really said.

[–]LipidSoluble 3 points4 points  (8 children)

You honestly don't want to see what goes on back there, unless you're looking to sit down with a bowl of popcorn. Even then, you're bound to walk away with a headache.

[–]MightyIsobel 1 point2 points  (5 children)

So sounds like what I really want is a backstage pass

or just wait patiently until people get tired of the silliness and open up a real conversation

(or real conversations, so to speak)

[–]LipidSoluble 4 points5 points  (0 children)

When I leave and come back 4-5 months later to the same shit, different day, I highly doubt this will ever occur.

[–]rockyali 2 points3 points  (15 children)

why is the TMP still relevant or necessary?

I participate there for a couple of reasons.

  1. People are nice to me. To be fair, I don't catch that much shit on the DS either. It's usually limited to sneering, but even that can get exhausting.

  2. While I am not much of a speculator and not at all a sleuth, I think it is more ethical to keep that stuff at least somewhat private. For example, while the MVA theory is silly, it was also not public in all its details until now. So, until this moment, nobody had publicly accused X of running over Hae (or whatever). So whoever posted it here is the person who made the public accusation, not the out-of-the-box thinkers who came up with it. It's the difference between whispering gossip at the water cooler and putting it on blast. Both can be bad, but one is more damaging than the other.

Which sub is this? The main one?

Nah, I don't think so. I think NU. Because it was unilaterally shut down, there was some effort I think (I was not involved) to see if it could instead be transferred to a different mod.

ETA: I think the thought was more "Since FMW doesn't want it anymore, can we have it?" than "Let's stage a coup against an active sub!" I for one had no idea until just now that it still existed at all. I thought she just shuttered the place.

[–]LipidSoluble 11 points12 points  (8 children)

No, what happened is that they copied all the posts and pasted them on Google. Publicly. Where the entire world could search them down.

After looking at the posts they copied and finding a shit-ton of personal information about themselves that people posted under the assumption that it would remain private, I locked down the google account and changed the password, so it could not be accessed.

At which point, the TMP mods tried to appeal to have Reddit forcibly take NU from FMW's hands.

[–]InTheory_ 10 points11 points  (1 child)

So you're the culprit! Good job for standing by your principles. You took a lot of flack for it, but you were right in your course of action.

The good news is that throughout this discussion, the guilty side has had a chance to see that there are reasonable people on the innocent side. We tried our hardest to keep things at an appropriate level.

Throughout all of this, there were people who spoke out. They suffered the consequences of it -- not simply banning, but being demonized afterwards in a deliberate smear campaign. Those people are finally getting their props for doing the right thing.

A lot of people said nothing. Those in the "Go along to get along" camp, you were on the wrong side in all this.

[–]LipidSoluble 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I caught flak for it?

I missed it via not paying attention to what was going on over there. I consider hate-mail from that region of the group as a compliment, though.

[–]OhDatsClever 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I once tried to gain membership to the NarcUnit. I never did get in, but I still get charged the $15 every month in fees...

I won't complain too much though, they say it goes to their "Top Spots" Program to benefit young gifted confidential informants in the inner city. A fine cause.

[–]orangetheorychaos 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The user name has been earned. Top spots

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Hey, don't blame them on me or vice-versa. I'm just giving out information over here. Take it or leave it.

[–]orangetheorychaos 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'm not blaming anyone. This is interesting to watch. Glad it's being shared

[–]InTheory_ 11 points12 points  (15 children)

Wow, lot of stuff here I didn't know (and I thought I knew a lot). I am not FMW. She's a lot more interesting than I am. I say that out of respect for my friend doo

As far as further elaboration and proof, I offer none. I owe TMP absolutely nothing, not even an explanation. They deserve whatever fate befalls them. Frosted is my friend, and it is no insult to me to be confused with her. I am, however, embarrassed to be in any way associated with whatever TMP has become.

Study of this case was supposed to make us better people. It hasnt. TMP is as bad as the trolls they claim to stand against. So I want no part of it.

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

<3 Hello there, friend. Thanks for weighing in. I know who you are, but due to the excellent sleuthing in TMP, by Jane no less, you are being accused of high crimes including: being dormant on reddit, not thinking for yourself, and worst of all, being Frosted Mini-Wheats.

I sentence you to good times in other subs, not giving a flying f*ck what TMP thinks. ;)

[–]LipidSoluble 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Was that my crime too? :O

I'm so dormant, people call me somnolent.

[–]dirtybitsxxx 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I would almost switch sides just to get a better view of this..... almost.

[–]StraightTalkExpress 11 points12 points  (0 children)

So here's the thing... I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who can get some xanax.

Just throwing that out there, some of you guys already have my email address if anyone is interested.

[–]Mrs_Direction 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Hey! Thanks for doing this! I know you are getting a bunch of flack. So thank you.

Beyond the socks, some of the other things you are exposing are kind of scary from the other side of the aisle.

It's safe to assume they have our IP's at a minimum.

[–]Mustanggertrude 13 points14 points  (109 children)

I just don't think Adnan did it. That's all I got.

[–]tuppence_beresfordBooted from TMP :( 13 points14 points  (103 children)

Yeah; why can't we all just discuss facts and theories without attacking each other?? I don't care about all this sub drama. I would even happily exist on serialpodcast with those who disagree with me if people were civil and normal. Sucks when a few people ruin it for everyone.

[–]Mustanggertrude 7 points8 points  (102 children)

I don't even know what this is. Is there a point to the tomfoolery, or is this standard practice for regular redditors? It seems like a lot of effort, time, manipulation, and for what? I'm having difficulty seeing the end game. Like long con for what? I just don't understand.

[–]tuppence_beresfordBooted from TMP :( 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Exactly. Who has time for all this long-con business? And for what purpose?

[–]Mustanggertrude 9 points10 points  (0 children)

right? What a lot of anonymous effort on an anonymous message board for irrelevant points so you can look like the most right? Is that what socks are for? so thrown, tuppence. I'm so thrown.

[–]InTheory_ 14 points15 points  (90 children)

Let me sum up then. TMP has claimed to be the persecuted target of all the spy vs spy nonsense going on. Yet every time someone comes forward with what they know, every time someone scratches below the surface, we learn that far from being the victims in all this, TMP is at or near the source of it all. As was said elsewhere, the guilty crowd has none of the same foolishness going on. On some level they don't even acknowledge to themselves, the TMP hardliners relish in it. And not for a con, but just because the game is fun to them.

[–]bluekanga 10 points11 points  (0 children)

the TMP hardliners relish in it. And not for a con, but just because the game is fun to them

That's the conclusion I reached as well

[–]MightyIsobel 9 points10 points  (0 children)

On some level they don't even acknowledge to themselves, the TMP hardliners relish in it

This whole comment is perfect.

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I think that's what the Bonnerite who gave this to me was trying to glean. I never found out if it lead to anywhere for the long game.

[–]Barking_Madness 6 points7 points  (7 children)

Power, control. The usual for people who are weak and unable to relate to others on the same level.

Oh and gossip.

[–]bluekanga 7 points8 points  (6 children)

So can't we peer pressure the power and control freaks and pull them into line so it's a better place /u/tuppence_beresford

[–]tuppence_beresfordBooted from TMP :( 10 points11 points  (5 children)

I've been wondering what could possibly save the sp sub since my removal from tmp, and I really think the only salvation is aggressive modding, which will never happen. The divisions are too deep and ingrained for people to police themselves, and there are trolls who love the environment. No one has enough time to constantly babysit, so it will never get better.

[–]bluekanga 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Well I suppose it's identifying high conflict posters and targeting them - if the socks are gone, that will help.

I do think if we could agree some guidelines about what respectful behaviour looks like then we can apply peer pressure - works in real life - just out the overly aggressive ones and trolls and if there's consensus then they will leave

[–]chunklunk 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I agree that peer pressure is the way to go more than aggressive modding. And, I know my own urge to conflict gets driven high when I encounter the obvious socks (which is every day), and I could do better to be more civil. But the problem is the socks are there for a reason. They're part of an intentional, explicit PR campaign to free Adnan, and they've been there since early on. For every janecc that gets banned there's a summer/mutton and her 20 re-animating socks. The drama over who participates or leads backchannel secret subs is a sideshow that those driving the ASLT crazytrain don't really care about. For them, there's no way to make the dark sub less "toxic" without brigade downvoting and smearing of those who express basic opinions like "Uh, guys, I think the dude is pretty guilty" or question the wacky theories of the Undisclosed trio too hard. The reason why TMP ignored /u/doocurly's concerns about the sock puppetry is not to defend a single person (janecc) and her sock factory, it's to defend a widespread and intentional strategy that's kept from overt discussion on TMP but widely practiced probably by more than we'll ever know.

[–]LipidSoluble 5 points6 points  (0 children)

To be perfectly honest, the conflict (as nasty as it can get) is a whole heck of a lot more productive (and healthy) than the saccharine falsehoods that goes down in a group of people who must agree about absolutely everything.

[–]bluekanga 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They're part of an intentional, explicit PR campaign to free Adnan, and they've been there since early on. For every janecc that gets banned there's a summer/mutton and her 20 re-animating socks.

Yep I agree and I hear and share your passion and frustration with these derailing and undermining tactics in order for the PR campaign to try and control the narrative on SP

Still we have the ducks now Quack quack quack quack

[–]gingercoffee 10 points11 points  (14 children)

This is really fucked up and you don't even deserve an explanation from me.

[–]budgiebudgie 15 points16 points  (3 children)

Jesus wept. Some people take themselves way too seriously. We're just a bunch of largely anonymous people on reddit. Who really gives a shit, this much? Honestly.

And the worst thing in my book. It's not even interesting.

[–]SWVeering 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Who really gives a shit, this much? Honestly.

I gave a shit for awhile Budgie. Because I really wanted to piece together what happened that day and because it was fun feeling part of a like-minded group (NO-ONE in my real-life was interested to the fanatical level I was so enter Reddit). Being ostricised because of /u/alwaysbelagertha s personal drama isn't fair. But then again, who ever said that the world was fair?

[–]LipidSoluble 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Anonymous is a great way to describe us, until someone decided to bust out with the static IP searches.

[–]Creepologist 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Other commitments took me away from Reddit for a good piece of the chronology in your post, Doo. I did manage to log on once or twice before getting kicked from said private subs (I assumed for inactivity, but who knows). Unfortunately, that was just enough time for me to get an eyeful of people in both subs getting out their torches and pitchforks to burn /u/Frosted_Mini-Wheats at the stake.

Whatever /u/theodoreadorno is up to I can't fathom, but the streak of naked ugliness I saw in /u/alwaysbelagertha and /u/CompulsiveBookNerd in these posts is unfortunately all too human and familiar. It's not surprising that Frosted has become their all-purpose, moustache-twirling bad guy given what easy marks they are for theodoreadorno.

[–]segovius 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Pure Animal Farm

[–]flwrsme 4 points5 points  (16 children)

I think I am fully caught up and was a ride. But can someone PLEASE explain to me the MVA theory or point me to a thread, if one is available in a non private sub?

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 5 points6 points  (15 children)

It goes like this: Stephanie rear-ended Hae either in the WHS parking lot or on a nearby road. Hae wasn't wearing a seatbelt. Hitting the steering wheel fractured Hae's hyoid. The reason it was Stephanie is because it took her 55 minutes to take her sister home from school and get back to WHS. The car and body were hidden, Hae's car & Stephanie's car got undercover repairs. Stephanie called Jay (on Adnan's phone) to help her cover it up. Adnan didn't know what happened at first but figured it out & is rotting in prison because there's more to their relationship than anyone knows.

[–]donailin1 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry, you can't be serious. This is a joke right?

[–]flwrsme 6 points7 points  (6 children)

WOW... ok, thanks! LOL

[–]AstariaEriol 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Holy shit

[–]dirtybitsxxx 12 points13 points  (3 children)

Im crying I'm laughing so hard.

[–]chunklunk 8 points9 points  (2 children)

It's really tremendous. I imagine the theory being delivered in a lecture hall and him expecting a slow-clap-to-standing-ovation and being met with uncomfortable silence.

[–]dirtybitsxxx 11 points12 points  (1 child)

I just had a crazy vision that it comes out that this is what really happened and we all walk away slowly and quietly, never to speak of this sub again.....

[–]chunklunk 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I'll eat my hat!

[–]julieannie 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I remember seeing that as a passing mention but I had no clue people ran with that. Wow.

[–]Nowinaminute 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Someone saw The Great Gatsby

[–]CreusetController 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Just a test of whether I can actually post in here. And WTF??!!??

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 5 points6 points  (108 children)

Doxing photo album is back up in the post, and it's better than before. Personal infomation has been redacted.

[–]chunklunk 5 points6 points  (84 children)

Question about this: is the Bonner party post "Canary in a Facebook Data Mine" new to your imgur links? I missed it yesterday when I read, but maybe didn't scroll down. Because that's a nasty piece of work. Not only against reddit rules, but totally unethical and disgusting. Who's idea was that?!?

[–]AstariaEriol 4 points5 points  (80 children)

I don't see a link for that, can you share?

[–]chunklunk 6 points7 points  (78 children)

It's talking about a comprehensive data mining project of people's Facebook's posts (Woodlawn students across 5 years!!!), collecting all info possible from their FB timelines, adding people with open profiles so they can monitor data from locked down profiles, see who/what they comment on, what photos they add (!!!), who likes their posts. It's the doxxiest thing I've ever seen, and this is an actual post from the sub!!! Then, it says they had to put the "data mine project on hold" because it worked too well and they ended up with "17GB of raw text and metadata." Forget reddiquette, IS THIS EVEN LEGAL?

[–]orangetheorychaos 6 points7 points  (73 children)

I'm sorry.... What?

Eta: this is happening in the bonner party?

[–]chunklunk 5 points6 points  (72 children)

Look at what doocurly labels Exhibit A in the post above, scroll down to the last screenshot.

[–]orangetheorychaos 5 points6 points  (71 children)

And this is the sub ss uses for her research? Is bob a part of this sub?

[–]TheHerodotusMachine 5 points6 points  (69 children)

sorry for the callout, but /u/doocurly or /u/frosted_mini-wheats , can you confirm if bob is or not?

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 2 points3 points  (68 children)

You'll have to tell me who Bob is.

[–]Frosted_Mini-WheatsBootedfromLeakinParkRangers:( 6 points7 points  (66 children)

I think they mean Bob the fireman from serial dynasty. He wasn't in Bonner when I was but that was months ago. He's in TMP, right?

[–]TheHerodotusMachine 2 points3 points  (0 children)


[–]chunklunk 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Not that I know of. This is the super-secret Bonner party in all its ugly glory. [ETA: yes, this is the one that SS uses or used, apparently.]

[–]AstariaEriol 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Yeah I just found it. I don't see why it would be illegal and personally don't think it should be, but it's creepy as a mofo.

[–]chunklunk 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I was being a little hyperbolic, but not by much. To research one or a couple of people's public info is one thing, and I agree not illegal, but to monitor and collect data for an entire group of people who graduated over 5-6 years? And it's explicitly talking about obtaining information from people who's profiles have been "locked down," meaning they want to see what people think is private info. Anyway, yes, maybe more on the incredibly gross side of the spectrum than illegal, but...

[–]AstariaEriol 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I come from a planet where we do not understand hyperbole or metaphors.

[–]ImBlowingBubbles 1 point2 points  (0 children)


Its legal but its not really ethical.

Its why people should make themselves aware of Facebook privacy policies and really understand how to interact in social media because the companies themselves (like Facebook) don't give a fuck because they want your browsing/click habits on file anonymously for market data. Unfortunately that gives a lot of weirdos openings because most people aren't aware how much info their social media accounts can reveal.

[–]AstariaEriol 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Oops nevermind I see it!

[–]TheHerodotusMachine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I always wondered if spokeo ever actually got subscribers.

[–]InTheory_ 9 points10 points  (19 children)

We discuss unredacted documents, real life identities of the parties involved, and talk smack about trolls for lols

How many times have they publicly denied exactly that? They insisted that the Donner sub was for other purposes completely.

And that's before even addressing my concerns with their mission statement. While I don't mind professionals investigating the case at that level, is it really ethical to crowd source this kind of stuff to average Redditors with zero experience in handling investigations appropriately?

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 10 points11 points  (18 children)

Was is ethical to exclude /u/rabiasquared from the sub discussing the very case documents that she gave to Susan? What was the purpose of excluding Rabia from the sub? Is it because of the very reason you stated? Something tells me that Rabia would have indeed been prohibitive in their effort to share case files with complete strangers, given how she has publicly railed about "leaks".

[–]ScoutFinch2 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Was is ethical to exclude /u/rabiasquared from the sub discussing the very case documents that she gave to Susan?

wow. I don't care much for Rabia, but that's just wrong.

[–]dirtybitsxxx 10 points11 points  (16 children)

Wait. Susan set up a sub and took the documents Rabia gave her and shared it with strangers, doxxed people and /u/rabiasquared wasn't allowed in the sub? Did /u/rabiasquared she know about it?

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 8 points9 points  (15 children)

Yes, that's what happened, and when Rabia found out about Bonner in TMP, and said something along the lines of, "all I know is that I was never invited", SS said something along the lines of oh, it was just a silly extension of a yahoo group. No bigs. From the album in the post, you can see it was a very fucking big deal. The whole effort to dox the shit out of former WHS students from their FB postings and keep a wiki of their stuff? Does it really get more shady than that?

[–]dirtybitsxxx 6 points7 points  (7 children)

Well, seeing as Rabia has engaged in Doxxing herself, perhaps she doesnt care what tactics people use. But it seems she should be pretty pissed about being excluded from the sharing of her own files.

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 3 points4 points  (6 children)

I think if she knew the half of it, she'd be more outraged. Far as I know, this post is the only time someone has leaked anything from Bonner. Maybe she really thought that it was just some hokey sub where Susan talked about her cats with some other lawyers.

[–]TimeHumpChronicles 3 points4 points  (6 children)

That's a great point. So, why didn't /u/Frosted_Mini-Wheats invite Rabia or inform her about it?

[–]doocurlyModdy McModerton[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Why did it have to be FMW? Why didn't anyone in Bonner tell her about it? I know that for the most part, people were very afraid of losing access to case documents that SS had shown them but no one else, like Hae's other diary entries. I guess salaciousness was part of the appeal, but who knows why no one told her. Same reason no one told my secrets for months, or why I didn't tell of my source's IP information for months. Fear of reprisal? Fear of repercussion? Fear of being excluded? Fear of losing access to the discussion? Seems curious you are quick to ask why out of all the members, FMW didn't out the sub. Why didn't ABL?

[–]Frosted_Mini-WheatsBootedfromLeakinParkRangers:( 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Because I was a mere member, and not a particularly popular one. Not a mod, no power to add or invite anyone.

I could, like anyone else, nominate someone for membership (though I never did). If the group agreed and the mod approved, users could be added. Any single member in the group could blackball a nominee for any reason (such as "I don't like him").

I didn't inform Rabia because, like fight club, the first rule of bonner was never talk about bonner. That went pretty well until Janecc started talking about bonner on subreddits and in emails to people from Facebook, etc. After Jane outed bonner, I was gone and didn't see that it was my place to tell anyone anything.

Wrt to Rabia, when she expressed an interest in joining NarcoticsUnit (where I do moderate), she was invited and participated. I rarely interacted with Rabia however and found her to be somewhat aloof in dealing with a peon like me. I had no way of knowing if SS had broken the first rule of Bonner and talked about it with Rabia and figured that was none of my business.

Nice try attempting to make me responsible for anything that happened in Bonner! Have an up vote.

[–]ImBlowingBubbles 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I want to thank you again for all this information. Its rather weird but illuminating and helped motivate my post on hiding personal information.

[–]jonsnowmeMagnet Cultist 10 points11 points  (11 children)

Oh my God. When will this drama end? Stop treating sub-reddits as some sort of measurement of popularity or social status. As someone that's been in the bonner party, it is nothing like you've described. As for FMW, I don't know much about her or her decisions but I do know something isn't quite right there... considering the day she closed NU she sent me a weird scathing email telling me that I was the reason she closed NU down because of a comment I made that she took as me bashing her mod decisions or something like that. I distanced myself right away but it's all so fucking weird that this just adds to the pile. Get a grip people. Go outside. I think the air will be good for all of you.

Holy crap, some of you need lives stat. The reddit drama surrounding Serial is starting to become very disturbing.

[–]whitenoise2323 5 points6 points  (6 children)

Founder and moderator-in-chief. That's pretty funny :D

[–]ImBlowingBubbles 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I don't really understand this post and I am not sure I really want to.

All I can say is wow...mind blown! What the heck is going on?

[–]cross_mod 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This is exciting!! And kind of silly...

[–]Barking_Madness 2 points3 points  (5 children)

"The inability of people to communicate with each other, not particularly internationally but especially emotionally, so what you see around you are people unable to love each other."


[–]ADDGemini 5 points6 points  (3 children)

That is one of my all-time favorite songs. Thank you :) My 7th grade English teacher always played Simon and Garfunkel or The Moody Blues while we worked; I am forever grateful to him.

[–]ScoutFinch2 7 points8 points  (2 children)

I watched the Simon and Garfunkel reunion concert in Central Park on Palladium last week, actually cried, that's how much I love them!

[–]ADDGemini 4 points5 points  (1 child)

They are my all time favorite roadtrip-daydreaming soundtrack. =D

I missed that! Damn. Is Palladium an app?

[–]ScoutFinch2 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Cable channel, shows a lot of old concerts.