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but she was indeed one of a tiny number of people who actually were invited to meet the Pope, and she did meet him. And it was secret in that the Vatican did not announce it, when asked about it refused to comment, and then finally relented and admitted that the Pope had met her. This was not something the he himself likely signed off on, so it is not all that significant of a signal from the church. But it was not imaginary, it happened.

was that those who arranged it kept it a secret from the pope until he walked into it.

an Eleventh Commandment for the RWNJ's - Thou shalt not be an Asshat and make up shit.

Really we need to start looking into what is causing these people to live in thier little bubble worlds. If this were the 50's we would be checking out the water supply for Foriegn Agents adding foriegn agents to it.

Seriously, when a country starts having this many of its people refusing to live in reality, the country needs to start checking things out. I am formchecking out the "super farms" where huge amounts of antibiotics, and growth hormones are being used and end up in the bio-sphere and by products that are being produced by the million gallon lots.

but it is becoming clear that there is far too many people who are unable to sort fantasy from the fact, and in this case they have 10 plus folks running for a leadership position that is all about dealing with the facts.

that the pope is the boss of the largest and most visible  advocate for homophobia (not to mention misogyny) in western civilization?

Does this make him (and his institution) OK?  

Whether he knew he was meeting her or not, he's still a homophobic misogynistic figurehead of a homophobic misogynistic institution.  In other words, he's a pig --whether he wanted to meet her or not.

They're both douchebags anyway.

I know for a FACT that it was a private meeting, that lasted well over 2 hours and involved the Pope and Davis discoursing on a number of topics in great depth--I bet that none of you know that Davis has a Masters of Divinity and Air Conditioner Repair from DeVry University--and that on its conclusion they promised to get together often and just dish--it seems that they're both huge fans of TMZ and follow the life and career of Justin Bieber closely.

How do I know this? Because! Stop asking me stupid questions, you Pope cultists! I know because that which I know.

A senior Vatican official has attacked the legalisation of gay marriage in Ireland. The referendum that overwhelmingly backed marriage equality last weekend was a “defeat for humanity�, he claimed.

“I was deeply saddened by the result,� Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s secretary of state, said at a conference in Rome on Tuesday night. “The church must take account of this reality, but in the sense that it must strengthen its commitment to evangelisation. I think that you cannot just talk of a defeat for Christian principles, but of a defeat for humanity.�

The remarks by the Vatican’s top diplomat, who is seen as second only to the pope in the church’s hierarchy, represent the most damning assessment of the Irish vote by a senior church official to date.

http://www.theguardian.com/...

does it make?  Met with the Pope, didn't meet with the Pope... whatever.  The Pope ain't gonna save her ass.  She eventually going back to jail.  Or resigning.

there seem to be an awful lot of them.

Stop trying to spin it as if he is some poor dupe.  No part of Kin Davis story is a lie.  She met with him, it was private, they hugged, he called her a "conscientious objector," the organization he runs has a long history of homophobia including recent statements condemning Ireland for passing marriage for all.  He's not the boogeyman but he isn't a progressive champion either.  He's pretty human after all.  

http://gawker.com/...

But lets talk more about how Kim Davis is misrepresenting the Pope.  

It says the pope's meeting with Davis "should not be considered a form of support of her position in all of its particular and complex aspects." That's a mighty big qualifier there. One can easily interpret this as saying there are some aspects of Davis' position that the pope does support (such as, say, her opposition to same-sex marriage) but others the pope does not support (such as, say, breaking the law).  If the had wanted to make a clearer statement they should have just said "should not be considered a form of support of her position." The Vatican continues its shady PR spin on this deeply unfortunate incident.

to a certain strip of "Entrepreneurial Protestants" ...  Sarah Palin and Pat Robertson might be two of many outstanding examples.

It is probably important to acknowledge that 'confabulating' is not exactly 'lying' any more than 'grifting' is actually stealing.  Both are just ways of Getting Over, and if they are "in a good cause." -- well, only "Others" are going to hold it against the grifter/confabulator .

So ... between Pope Francis and Kim Davis' versions of 'what happened' ... we've got much the same problem as the Columbia University student council in adjudicating "What Happened Behind Closed Doors, Six Weeks Ago" in a sexual abuse allegation.

Today's New York Times' OpEd page  offers some not-so-new information and insight as to why the Pontiff (and/or his staff) might have strong motives to do one thing, and then say another when caught doing it.

On the other hand, while the Pontiff has the most to lose by being seen as 'too close' to a controversial local political character ... Ms. Davis has the most to gain by seeming to have been bless and encouraged by His Holiness.

I'm not entirely sure where Kim Davis' branch of Apostolic Pentecostal Christianity stands on the legitimacy of the Chair of Peter and the Catholic Church.  The sects vary, and the rhetoric changes from decade to decade.  Twenty years ago pretty much all the -out-of-the-mainstream conservative Christian churches ... taught that Mormonism and Catholicism were "cults".  They equated Rome with Satan,  Great Whore of Babylon,  and so on.

Now, with so much political, social and sexual common ground ... "not so much anymore."   (And besides, now there are MOOSE-lums to excoriate for fundraising purposes.)

It's no secret that Pope Francis' world tour WAS calculated to improve the Catholic 'Brand' ... boost contributions, Church attendance, recruit potential priests and nuns ... and generally take back some of what has been lost to Evangelicals and "Spiritual not Religious"  in the "New World."

In large measure, the outreach has been an enormous success.

And there are reasons that the Davis Affair might allow different secretariats of the Vatican to tell different stories appealing to different constituencies -- each, in different ways, advancing Rome's (small E) evangelical enterprise.

As for Francis himself ... well whatever one thinks of senior Jesuits ... no one can pretend that they're either stupid or superficial -- much less impulsive.

To them every lie to defend and advance their religion is equivalent to lying to the Nazis about the location of Jews. Their small act of evil is overwhelmed by the subsequent good that the lie allowed.

That's how they think, and act.

Amen

watch it.  The NYT has speculated that we'll finally know the truth of the matter in January, when Archbishop Viganò is required to submit a letter of resignation to the Vatican when he turns 75; they have theorized that, if the Pope is dissatisfied with this tempest in a teapot (chaos in a communion chalice?) that, unlike most of those pro forma letters, Viganò's will be accepted.

It's possible that it'll be accepted, it's possible that Archbishop Viganò will be transferred to the Papal Nuncio in, say, Bangladesh, but it's also a bit risky to read too much Kremlinology into it - if the Pope feels that the problem has been dealt with adequately through internal measures, or believes that Viganò is among the victims rather than the perpetrators, no perceptible action may be taken.

All along I was saying that it was risky to read too much into that "meeting."  Lol.

the extent that they have any meaning at all, they were written for and imposed upon the Jews. Goyim need pay them no mind. They are irrelevant to and for all parties to the assumed mistruth.

If they did have any meaning for Goyim, then it is anybody's guess whose story is closer to the truth anyway, hers or the Vatican's. We have no reason to trust either party.

They're tricky, Francis.

launch attacks on the pope based on a lie. When will they learn to confirm before reacting?

which was reported. whew! Shine on, your pontificalness!

because, yea. His lips are moving. From the "huge rally" for the Troll in Peru, to the Troll's "secret meeting" with the Pope. Next thing you know, the Troll will become Donald Trump's running mate. If only to burnish the Trump's cred with Leviticus freaks.

under the bus for this lie.

I have been all into this debate earlier in the week, and honestly Im not interested into getting into it again today.
That being sad, I remember a few years ago when if you said anything remotely favorable towards the Catholic church you would get attacked viciously, your motives questioned, and legions of comments would bring up priestly sex abuse and the church's cover ups of them.

But that was under Pope Benedict.  Now we have this guy Francis in there, and the Vatican hired this public relations expert to improve the church's horrible image. Its getting so bad that Catholic dioceses throughout the country are having to sell off church buildings, beautiful luxurious bishops mansions, retreat houses on prime real estate, in order to pay off the multitude of lawsuits against abusing priests.

So along comes Francis saying some nice things.  He will meet with a former student of his from years ago, and be polite to his gay lover of many years.  This is a real change from Benedict, who would never do such a thing but in his own private life spend his day under the constant guidance and presence of a young handsome German priests the Germans called - "gorgeous George."

Google him.  So Francis's pr offensive has worked a miracle.  I never in a million years would have believed we have so many Catholics and/or Papal apologists and sympathizers on this site.

Which is all well and good, Im just surprised.  But the doctrine of the church has not changed.  Francis himself when gay marriage was being debated in Argentina called gay marriage as coming from "the Father of lies."
Francis has not taken any moves whatsoever against cardinals and bishops in Africa who have supported "kill the gays" laws.

I now feel the evidence seems to be pointed to the fact that an anti-gay papal nuncio with ties to Kim Davis's lawyers set up this meeting.  There is debate whether is was a brief private meeting or if Ms Davis was part of a group of people in a "rope line."  The Vatican is not helping by issuing cryptic statements which sort of give comfort to either side.

The Pope was not totally supportive of Ms Davis's positions and now im sure Ms Davis and her lawyers exaggerated and/or distorted the words of Francis.

But Francis did meet with the woman, I believe it would be naive to think he had no idea whatsoever who she was or what she stood for.  The whole thing about keeping it secret and then once a major backlash was occuring finally make a statement on Friday which gave some detail, other than the initial cryptic Vatican statement on Tuesday of " we do not deny the meeting happened, but we will be no commenting on it any further", some thing like that.

So go at it, papal apologists.  In this particular shitstorm, it does appear Francis was manipulated or his position distorted by the Kim Davis backers.

But an objective investigation of Francis's past statements and actions on the issues of gay marriage and gay equality , as well as transgender rights, shows he is resolutely opposed.  Gay marriage is "from the Father of lies" is not exactly gay friendly.

I also think that the vast number of positive rec's given to papal apolgists in the last few days should be taken into account by gay people on this site and remembered.
Gay equality will be thrown under the bus, the record of a political church spending millions of dollars on Proposition 8 and in other campaigns on the anti-gay side is not relevant to the papal apologists.

Like I have said earlier, I can understand the inclination and desire of Catholics (I am one, or was one) , to come to the church's defense after a decade of trashing in the media and society in general.  But on gay rights the church is not only wrong but actively working in the political realm of many nations to either roll back or prevent advances in gay rights.

Realistic assessments of what has happened on this site are give if lucky maybe 6-7 recs, papal apologetic comments which at first even denied the meeting took place and now seem to be implying Francis had no idea who Ms Davis was or what she stood for, are getting close to 100 recs.

The gay community on Daily Kos has to realize we have been thrown under the bus.  If we were wise, I think we should be now looking to other real progressive sites than Daily Kos, the last few days have been very instructive.