KARACHI | Green Line BRTS | Infrastructure | U/C

[mraza]

It is quite a time ago I did not hear about this project in the media
Can someone provide the latest status

RAZA

[dost_4u]

http://www.american-maglev.com/prese...eb_Karachi.pdf

[swerveut]

KARACHI: Team to survey mass transit


By Our Staff Reporter

KARACHI, May 3: A two-member team of a joint venture arrived in the city to carry out survey of corridor-I for the magnetic train operation, and is likely to hold a meeting with the city nazim at his office on Wednesday to discuss the project. The team, comprising Japanese consultant Junji Scibata and Mr Fritz, visited the office of the Karachi Mass Transit Project (KMTP) where they were briefed about corridor-I. They later visited the area from Sohrab Goth to the Merewether Tower, the Deputy Director, KMTP Anwar Beg told Dawn.

He said the two consultants were associated with Pacific Consultants International, and were hired by a joint venture of American Maglev and the Infrastructure Development Company (IDC).

Their local partner was the Engineering Associates, who had arranged the survey with the permission of their partners, he added.

Mr Beg said the consultants had told the meeting at the KMTP office that they would count vehicles passing on the route and the number of passengers travelling through public transport.

The team would also carry out a survey to know the opinion of people after preparing the pre-designed questionnaire before forecasting the expected ridership of the Maglev train.


http://www.dawn.com/2005/05/04/local10.htm

[swerveut]

KARACHI: Corridor-I survey completed


By Our Staff Reporter

KARACHI, May 4: The Space and Upper Atmospheric Research Commission (Suparco) on Wednesday handed over the topographic survey of the Karachi rail-based mass transit Corridor-I – between the Sohrab Goth and Mereweather Tower – to the city government. The document was presented to the City Nazim, Niamatullah Khan, by Suparco Chairman Maj-Gen (Retd) Raza Hassan Hussain at the Civic Centre. A briefing was also held.

DCO Fazalur Rehman, DG of the Karachi Mass Transit Cell Malik Zaheerul Islam and divisional head of Suparco Javaid Ali were among those present.

Though Suparco had been assigned the task of undertaking the survey in Sep 2004, it signed an agreement with the city government in this regard only on Wednesday.

The nazim on this occasion formed an eight-member committee to work out modalities and consider Suparco’s offer of developing a digital map of Karachi, GIS (Geographical Information System) of various city government departments, and tracking and monitoring of their vehicles for the Tameer-i-Karachi Programme.

The committee will be headed by DCO Fazalur Rehman, and KMTC’s Director General Malik Zaheer-ul-Islam will act its secretary-cum-member. Other members include city government EDOs of Revenue, Information Technology, Finance and Planning, Master Plan and DOs (Coordination and Human Resource Management).

The KMTC’s Director General, Malik Zaheerul Islam, told the meeting that a detailed topographical survey was required to obtain updated infrastructural information for implementing the rail-based mass transit system for Corridor-I, and Suparco, whose bid was the lowest, was awarded a contract in this regard in Sep 2004.

The Suparco Chairman, Maj-Gen (Retd), Raza Hassan Hussain, assured the city government that any shortcoming, if found, in the topographical survey of the Karachi rail-based Mass Transit (Corridor-I) would be removed.

The Suparco’s divisional head, Javaid Ali, informed the meeting that Suparco conducted lose traverse surveys throughout the corridor merely to ensure the accuracy of the topographic maps and permanent benchmarks.

He said with a view to ensure the accuracy of heights above mean sea-level of all permanent monuments, double level survey was carried out throughout the corridor. Besides, cross-section level data was collected at regular intervals along with measurement of widths.

He said that two depot areas – one railway yard at the Mereweather Tower and the other at Sohrab Goth – were also surveyed although there were not included in terms of reference of the survey.

Elaborating, he said that the total length of the topographical survey corridor was 17 km including one km on either side of the two ends.

The corridor was aligned from Sohrab Goth to Mereweather Tower via Water Pump, Aisha Manzil, Karimabad, Dakkhana, Tin Hatti, Guru Mandir, Old Numaish, Jamia Cloth market and New Memon Masjid.

The extent of survey along both flanks of the roadway was defined as building line to building line in built-up area and 125 metres in the roads from the centre line and 250m on major intersections whereas the width of the cross-section level was kept at 25m for the entire route.


http://www.dawn.com/2005/05/05/local6.htm

[swerveut]

I wish this project well and an early start and completion. IA.

[Toronto4life]

I think its really sad how the Pakistani media and the people on this forum are so ignorant to the fact that American Maglev is a big hoax. This company has never EVER created a maglev system anywhere in the world, except for its test site on a Florida University I believe. The Test failed miserably as this cheaper American Magnetic Technology failed and was not able to glide smoothly at high speeds as does the real Maglev train in Shanghai.

It is really sad how politicians in Karachi or Pakistan as a whole are just taking citizens for a ride to nowhere by claiming a MAGLEV system. This company is pathetic, it had to lay off all of its workers and only the owner sits in his home office in Florida and runs the company himself. This is because the government cut his funding when the tests failed, and even the U.S. government did not bother to use American Maglev technology for its own high-speed rail projects.


I dunno whats going on here. But I do know that I would not hold your breath for a ground breaking of Karachi Maglev system any time soon. It is mere imagery. It seems like Lahore has a better chance with its monorail project with support from REAL EXISTING and operating Malayasian corporations.

[swerveut]

Yeah I dont understand why the government had to go and sign up for such a sham company myself! Even their website isnt professional. And a maglev would no doubt be out of the reach of the common Pakistani to be able to afford! Not to mention, that any magnetic levitation train travels at high speeds and is not suitable for frequent stops that should be needed for within-city transit. I think the city nazim should better clarify this matter soon, I am going to write to Dawn and to Mr. Cowasjee about it. Anybody else concerned, also please do so.

[Sridhar]

There was an older thread on this with a lot of discussion, in which I also participated.

1. This proposal should not be fully dismissed out of hand, though there are issues with it. While American Maglev itself is an unknown company without any established credibility, it claims Siemens, Lockheed Martin etc. as partners for the project. These are large, multi-billion dollar companies. Siemens has experience in this too - the Shanghai project was built by a subsidiary of Siemens.

2. While it is true that high-speed Maglevs are unsuitable for intra-city transport, it does not need to be a 'high-speed' Maglev for the intra-city system. The claimed advantage of Maglev include not just speed but also energy-efficiency. There is thus, some logic for using a Maglev even in a city transit system, though such advantages have not enticed cities to invest in such a system till now. The only operational commercial Maglev today is the Shanghai one and that operates as a high-speed airport-city link. However, the fact that the Chinese Govt. has cancelled the longer Shanghai-Beijing maglev that was being planned (and replaced it with a conventional high-speed rail link instead) suggests that perhaps all is not well with the technology. The Shanghai maglev itself has had problems with the technology as well as the ridership.

3. The economics of mass transit militate against any privately operated system. Most metros worldwide are subsidized by Governments - they are not really viable for operation as a private operation. The exception of a profitable, privately operated metroo is the Hong Kong MTR. But even that has implicit subsidies since it derives its profits from its real estate operations - the Govt. gave it prime land to develop and that is a form of subsidy too. In Bangkok, for instance, they built a system privately, but ridership has been pathetically low till now, primarily because the prices required to recover costs deterred most passengers. I don't think there would be more than a handful of passengers in Karachi who would be willing to shell out the equivalent of two dollars for a trip (which would anyway involve other modes and additional expense unless both their homes and offices are adjacent to metro stations).

4. This proposal still does not address the concern of many that any elevated structure on the M.A.Jinnah Road would destroy the urban cityscape. The downtown portion of this road has important buildings and monuments including the Jinnah Mausoleum, Frere Hall, Mereweather Tower etc.. A concrete guideway there would destroy the vista that one has. It can be argued that an aesthetically pleasing guideway can actually enhance the vista, but there are opponents (and influential ones) to any elevated project along the way - to them an underground section is necessary at least from Tower to the Jinnah tomb. The Maglev can also be potentially built underground for part of Line 1, but will add hugely to costs. Further, an underground Maglev has not been tried out before - there are technical issues to deal with.

[UnitedPakistan]

You guys its a fact that a maglev will be built a canadian company was supposed to build it but they couldnt come up with a viable design.

[Sultan]

Grrrrrr. Why can't Karachi follow the Lahore example ? Use something 'reliable'. Don't go after 'bankrupt' companies. Lahore is going to invest in a monorail, and construciton on the project would hopefully begin this year. The technology is Malaysian, and has been deployed in Kuala Lumpur. It also works perfect. I don't think there is a need of 'Maglev', as swerveut said, the common man won't be able to afford it.

Karachi needs to go for a monorail system. They should go for the same deal as the Lahoris. A reliable monorail network. Karachi needs a corruption watch. I'm not willing to ride that failed monorail system whenever its done.

I hope this company looses the contract, and a new company with a 'reliable' system is appointed.

Write to the president - presidentofpakistan.gov.pk

[swerveut]

http://www.utu.org/worksite/detail_n...rticleID=10670
http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories...566&ran=244251
http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories...025&ran=183839

I dont think we really need this technology right now. This seems more like a second or third generation transit project that should have been followed later on. But right now, it is just a white elephant and I think Karachi just needs something that actually WORKS right now.

As Sridhar said, this technology might work and should not be completely dismissed, but it is still under development and would need a lot of money pumped into it so it can go into even an experimental stage. The company ran out of its US federal grants of millions of dollars even before it could make its Old Dominion University project functional. I dont think Karachiites have that much money to be able to afford its development costs and then pay high fares on its travel at the moment.

Forumers, I would again request you to write to newspapers like Dawn or Jang or write to Mr. Cowasjee or other columnists. You can write through emails as well. But we need to raise more awareness of this ligitimate issue.

[FK]

I really have to agree, I seriously have doubts about American Maglev Co.

Just a small notice, they dont even have proper pictures of their "Magnetic" train. Its just that one picture that their using on their site and their ads.

The other pictures are just of a common Mono-rail, nothing Magnetic about that.

I actually wouldnt mind if they use the new KCR trains, which are pretty good as I heard. Their much similar to the Subway trains used in most Modern Cities. So I wouldnt mind riding in that.

[UnitedPakistan]

why not go back to the canadian firm who is building the wind farms in punjab to make the Maglev?

Ok so they fell 1 month behind of the project so what!

[swerveut]

Actually those pictures are in fact of the magnetic train that they built for Old Dominion University, and it is an authentic project. But it is still in the research stages and was not really successful in all their trials. They ran out of funds before they could get it to work and then afterwards, a lot of the companies sued them which put them further into debt.
What my concern is that the Karachi Government has assigned a contract to an as yet undeveloped technology so the system that American Maglev sets up in Karachi would be an experimental system which we cannot afford. Also, there are big chances that it might not work as well and the company would be forced to take its project down or leave it undeveloped due to funds running out before they can get it to work. That way it will be a huge loss for the government and for the city.

[Aryan]

Maglev technology is something I really dont understand. How much energy is really lost in friction between the rail and the train wheels? I'm pretty sure most energy in high speed travel is lost through air resistance, and not through contact with the ground.

[SuperMan44]

I don't really see the point of using Maglev trains that move at the speed of like 400km/h for a track that will be only 18km long. A 100km track would be more suffcient for Maglev trains.

[swerveut]

Thats why Maglev technology is more suitable for intercity transit rather than intra city transit.
Answering Aryan's post, a lot of the energy is wasted in countering air resistance but most of the enegrgy is probably lost in the friction between mechanical components, tracks, wheels and etc. Also, air resistance can be minimized through good aerodynamic designing.

[Toronto4life]

I think everyone is getting ahead of themselves....the BASIC point to remember is that the Karachi City Government signed a contract with a company that is:

1. Bankrupt
2. Lost funding from the United States Federal Government
3. Has failed to create a working model on 1 km track at an American University....in fact the model failed miserably
4. Investors like LOCK-HEAD Martin have diassociated themselves with American Maglev after the claims of FRAUD
5. Most transportation experts have HEAVILY critized the owner for trying to sell a product that does not exist or has no working model to developing countries.... (SO FAR KARACHI is the ONLY city in the world that has agreed to it)
6. THIS IS NOT THE REAL MAGLEV that is in SHANGHAI that travels like 400 km/hour.....it reaches only top speeds of 150 - 200 at most....and so far it has not been able to be operational has the train does not glide smoothly on the track. (Hence the reason for the failed test in Florida)
7. The University supporting the test project has requested the company to remove the track from the Campus (MOST ARE COMPLAINING THE TRACKS are UGLY and besides it doesn't work>>))
8. The AMERICAN Gov't is not using American Maglev technology at ALL....its has opeted with a Canadian company's high speed rail project and even that at best is an INTER CITY SYSTEM (hence its make NO SENSE for an 18km tracks with several stations travelling at a highspeed)
9. The COMPANY is a ONE MAN SHOW as the dude who runs it has had to lay-off everyone and there is some indication that he has folded the company, as a journalist from the UNIVERSITY with the test site, visited his office in Florida only to find a ONE MAN SHOW operating a completly unrelated business with no SIGNS or any indication of the existence of AMERICN MAGLEV.

I think KARACHI citizens are being taken for a ride....SAD thing is there are still some people especially on URBANPAKISTAN.com that believe that Karachi will be getting there maglev/monorail system through this SHAM of a company......as well as the recent articiles in the Pakistani media support this claim....

I DUNNO what this means....that WE as CITIZENS stink at questioning the government, or are KARACHI politicians REALLY DUMB and oblivious, or is our MEDIA completly shitty that it will take the word of uneducated politicians in believing and propgating this KARACHI MASS TRANSIT lie.

[FK]

I seriously think we dont even need a Magnetic train. I mean how long does it take to go from Defence/Clifton to say .. Tariq Road?

It takes hardly 30mins (If you take Sharea Faisal)

And its not like Karachi is spread far and wide, we can easily do with a Monorail or even with the current local trains.

As I mentioned in the other thread, create Mono-rail tracks on Sharea Faisal, let it go from Airport - Metropole with stations in between, im pretty sure that would be a better idea.

[swerveut]

Urbanpakistan is infact doing a disservice to Pakistan for not letting anybody question governmental policies.

As far as other discerning forum members go, PLEASE WRITE! I have already mailed Mr. Cowasjee and Dawn editorial about it, but it will take more requests before we can bring this out to light. PLEASE PLAY A PART. CONTRIBUTE towards being a good Pakistani National. IT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT that people know what is going on and what direction they are headed. Especially when it comes to a major project such as Karachi Mass Transit.