I'm really sorry this is causing you so much stress, Pat. :-( This whole situation illustrates one of the reasons I'm so fervently opposed to fanfic, which is another form of theft.

There is an attitude that anything becomes public property once it's created and published, online or in any medium, and that anyone who publishes something becomes part of "the establishment" who is "ripping people off" by expecting to get paid for their work. Combating this attitude is like wading into the sea and trying to hold back the tide.

I've been chasing down illicit copies of my articles online ever since my first website went up in 1997. I had content that was unique, well-done and popular--everybody wanted to grab it and put it on their own sites. I've even found my plagiarized work on semi-commercial sites like monstrous.com.
Once when I complained and got a piece taken off a Buffy fan site, the site owner replaced it with a rant about "stupid people who think they own things just because they wrote them." Another website owner copied an entire article of mine and reproduced it verbatim, but with a few comments of her own inserted here and there to make it appear like her original work. In another case, someone copied a research article that appears on my site in two parts because it's long, and only put the first part on her own website! (Talk about adding insult to injury. :-p)

I got stonewalled a few years ago when I found that big ISPs made it very hard to complain about copyright violations--you practically had to have your attorney snail-mail notarized proof that you were the copyright holder. The pendulum seems to have swung back toward the creators' side now, but I got so sick of chasing plagiarists with no results, I put a page on my website called "The Hall of Shame" where I listed, but didn't link, the websites that were plagiarizing me.

The dilemma for fiction writers, though, and the issue that makes this a controversial topic even in the professional writing community, is that fiction writers succeed and fail on the power of name recognition. I tend to have this feeling that when my books are popular enough for someone to bother pirating them, and the pirated copies are getting circulation, it will be a sign of success, because who cares about free copies of some unknown hack's book? No, it's the big names that everyone wants who get pirated. So I guess it depends on whether you're looking at the big picture or counting the pennies--and I'm not saying that both aren't important. I recommend your books to everyone, Pat--when I do an interview and get asked what vampire books I read, I mention your series! But as far as I'm concerned, you're not nearly well-known enough, and anything that gets your name in front of readers improves your position, in that sense.

As far as losing money, people who download pirated stuff wouldn't pay for the stuff they pirate--they just wouldn't consume it at all. The fact that it's free is the whole point. And if the pirates aren't making any money, either, we may have to decide whether it's worth the stress and loss of creative time, and chalk it up to promotional costs--because unlike plagiarism, pirating does result in publicity and promotion for the author. That's no excuse for the pirates, but sometimes you just have to make lemonade and get on with it. :-(

I'm so sorry you've had to go through all that crap, too.

It IS disheartening. Until publishers figure out how much they're losing in sales it's going to have to be up to the writers to play cop.

Many of us don't bother. I can't afford to, nor am I wired to just put up with it. I've never been a lemonade-maker. When Life hands me lemons I tend to hunt down the cause of the problem and strangle it with my bare hands. It makes such a satisfying "uggghgk!" sound.

And I have to disagree that the pirates are not making money. That's why my stuff is up on the porn sites. Wankers like Athanatos hope a downloader will click on a link and make him a few pennies. (Athanatos-- get a real job.)

I cannot chalk any of this up to promotional costs. I have a specific budget for that. Pirating is not promotion, it is theft. Each lost sale means my legit publishers think twice about buying more of my books since sales are down. I have to bust my ass as it is just to get those legit sales!

Thieves are going to steal if they're that determined, but I see no advantage making it easy for them.

Whether I'm well-known or not is not the point. I'd be the same if I was an unknown unpublished neo with a single short story up or if my name was Nora Roberts. (Who sued the hell out of a plagiarist, BTW, then donated the money to charity.)

Liking the wall of shame idea. I've been thinking of putting one up. We'll see. ;>)

Somebody on my friends list pointed me at this post. I'm disgusted too. The whole book's a little different than just a teaser paragraph with a link to the author's site. I hope you filet them for lunch.

P.S. I have about 4 of your books, with "Death and the Maiden" being my favorite, so I hope you don't mind if I put you on my friends list.

Not at all. I'm delighted to meet you!

Hopefully future posts will be more fun, but sometimes I have to vent or explode. The latter is not a pretty sight, ask anyone.

Stick around--I'm working on a story featuring Jonathan Barrett!

I don't get it. I'd never download a book, even legally. I suppose it's a generational thing, but I hate reading good fiction on the PC. I like having a solid book in my hand, so I can curl up with a cat or two and a Pepsi and enjoy the story.

On the other hand, if somebody offers me downloaded videos of the new Doctor Who or Torchwood episodes before they're shown in the U.S. (in sometimes edited format), I'll say yes in a heartbeat. But I fork over my hard-earned bucks the minute these things become available on DVD, so I don't think the BBC is losing money on me.

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this crap.

Not to worry, I've a BIG shovel for dealing with crap.

Of course, I'd much rather use it on the pointy heads of the upload miscreants.

Anybody has a right to vent, especially about illegal downloading and people stealing their work, if I were a published author, I don't think I would be too happy about such things either. I do think it would have a horrible effect on one's muse to see things being thieved like that.

The only time I download things is when they are absolutely not available anywhere else for a reasonable price. Like for example, I wanted a copy of Duel of the Fates by John Williams in instrumental version and I have yet to find a copy, I had to get it via download just because the music stores didn't carry it at all. And I still have no idea how the person who had it available found it even.

Stuff like that, things that are extremely rare, (i.e. out of print,) that are near impossible to get ahold of without paying an arm and a leg are my sole exceptions.

Might I also say, that reading your blog is making me interested to checking out your work? :D I find your insights and posts quite interesting.

As a fanfiction author though, I must stick up for fanfiction at large, I wouldn't have been nearly as into the Star Wars fandom for nearly as long as I have been without fanfiction. George Lucas on the whole, made more money off me instead of less, and it's an unfortunate fact that many of the fanfiction at least in that particular fandom, is better than the published expanded universe. However, the same does not hold true for all fandoms.

Here's hoping the muse strikes for you soon, and don't let these bums get you too down!


Edited at 2008-11-20 08:55 pm (UTC)

Hey, check it out, check it out! You'll find some of my out of print stories in the Reading Room of my website.

As for fanfic, I don't write it--not since I learned about the copyright thing--and when I did write it the most cool computer available was the TRS-80 from Radio Shack.

Now I did make a lengthy post about fanfic elsewhere on my blog. Some people, only half listening to a panel talk I gave, wholly misunderstood me on the topic.

http://p-n-elrod.livejournal.com/14707.html

And thank you for the props, I'll kick these bums to the gutter with steel-toed boots before they get me down.

Oh thanks for the tip on where to find some of your out of print stuff, I've got a copy of Book one of Vampire Files, I just haven't started reading it yet, I wanted to start reading like a mad woman after National Novel Writing Month is over. :p

I think if I were a published author, I would put stipulations down on what to do with my characters, for example slash, does not appeal to me at all. I don't know that I'd be comfortable with letting people twist my characters around to doing things that I don't personally approve of.

That said though, really glad you aren't anti-fanfiction in general. Though I don't blame you for not wanting to be listed at the fanfiction.net place. That place is a mosh pit. :p The things that are there, generally aren't that good of quality and I take anything said there with a very big grain of salt or two or ten. That said, one can occasionally find good gems there. I use the place solely for housing my fanfics in one convenient location. :p Though I haven't updated in a good while, I have a bunch of stuff I need to upload, it just always seems to slide to the back burner.

http://www.fanfiction.net/~jinngerbread


I've been doing National Novel Writing Month this November and this will hopefully be my second win and it is a fanfiction. This is also the first full length fanfiction I've ever written without a collaborator, and I'm pondering next year taking my characters that I've created for fanfiction in doing something fully original with them, something I never would have had the courage to try otherwise.


Hrm, I rambled about that topic much more than I meant to. :p

On steel-toed boots, if you need a pair, my hubby has some. :p They might be a few sizes too big for you though, depending on your shoe size. ;)


Edited at 2008-11-20 09:38 pm (UTC)

Loads of *hugs* and curses upon the heads of the freeloaders. Bastards.

Right--you're next to me in the bar fight!

I honestly don't understand that mindset -- "Oh, if it's on the internet it MUST be free!" I actually had someone give me a CD of a series of e-books, obviously pirated, as a BIRTHDAY present. He was astounded when I told him it had been thrown into the trash, and mortified after I explained why. It simply never dawned on him that he was stealing until I said, "How would you feel if someone had taken a bunch of MY stories without paying me for them?"

Right on, sistah!

You could also point out to him how he would feel if someone took his car and gave it to high school kids for a little harmless joyriding. Donno why, but guys tend to relate to automotive stuff better. :snerk:

Man this sucks. I'm sorry you are having such a poopy week. Is there any way that I can help? I'm a stay-at-home mom, so I have lots of free time, I just don't know what to search for.

That makes both of us. I'm a technotwit. I didn't even know to put up a Google alert until a friend told me about them.

They're in place and I get daily notice for certain downloads and can write the host. They'll take them down, but you have to jump hoops.

I don't know how to track down the perps as from what I understand about the sites is they protect their IDs. They can have an anonymous gmail account, but *I* have to provide everything but my S.S. number to prove I'm the copyright holder.

"Poopy" week? LOL! I love that word. Gonna start using it more often.

When you have a two-year-old that you are sort of, kind of, trying to potty train a lot of things are poop. Although she says it "boop." But saying that you are having a boopy week just makes it sound too cute and doesn't give into a certain kind of frustration that should be acknowledge by a cuss word that you shouldn't say in front of the two-year-old, instead you stress the first "p." A lot.

Eh, you just need a hacker fan that can track down the real technotwit that is giving away your work. Unfortunately that fan is not me. I don't even know how to get my IP address. >.

Pat, it wouldn't surprise me if the stuff that ends up on the porn sites is scraped by a bot.

Back up, cut the technobabble. I know. ;-)

There are programs out there that go look at what comes up on the searches at Google, and then they go scrape content from those sites and put them on spam blogs ("splogs") or put the text on the same pages as p0rn videos. I know this because I've had content scraped and used in this fashion, and I go after the p0rn folks with a BIG stick.

If you end up on one of those p0rn sites and they ask you to download a codec, DON'T DO IT. It's a bunch of malware - adware, keystroke loggers, and other nasty stuff. If you're offered a "free" download when you visit those sites, mention it in your complaint to the hosting service. Oddly enough, they seem more mortified to be hosting that kind of crap than p0rn. And they come down REAL fast. ;-)

Heee-- like I'm going to download anything from a porn site.

Not while I can get a "free" Tarot card reading instead!

:ducks and runs for cover:

Forgive me for jumping in; but I enjoy your novels and I've been fascinated by the comments on this topic. Copyright is an interest of mine.

Let me ask a question, though. I have an ebook reader (a Sony, not a Kindle) and prefer to read e-text on it rather than on my computer screen. My downloads have been perfectly legal to the best of my knowledge; I get my books either from Baen Books (some free, some bought), from Project Gutenberg, or from foreign-language sites that are just like Project Gutenberg but have better coverage of foreign-language, out-of-copyright books.

I see you have four short stories up on your webpage for people to read there, and I see that you retain copyright and don't want them reproduced. By "not reproduced" I understand you mean that you don't want me to download them surreptitiously and put them on my ebook reader, even for my own personal use. That's fine: your copyright, your decision.

But is there a way to download them legally? Can I purchase a download from you? I would be perfectly glad to pay to have a copy of your stories that I could put on my ebook reader, and it occurs to me that other readers may feel the same way.

I'm just trying to explore the options here. I'll reiterate that it's absolutely your decision whether to allow downloads or not, and I can understand that there are reasons why you might not want downloads under any circumstances.

Hey, if you want to copy and paste the stories on to your own personal reader, that's okay with me--it's the ones who put the stories up on other sites for download that get up my spout.

The stories are up for everyone to enjoy, but then someone has to come along and spoil the fun.

Some years back I got a huge bag of Halloween candy, put it in a bowl on the porch along with a sign: "One piece only, please."

The first kid who came along took the whole damned bowl. I shouted at him through a window to just take one.

"Sure, just one, haw-haw-haw!" The little bastard ran off, still laughing at the mug who'd misplaced her trust that most people are basically polite. I was amazed he left the bowl itself, but he probably couldn't fit it into his bag.

I hardly need add that the next batch of kids got nothing, and I've not put out candy since.

Kid stuff, sure, but it taught me that all it takes is one greedy, selfish moron to screw things up for everyone else.

I had proof of it yet again watching the CNN report with those CEOs who had all flown to DC on their private jets. What they spend on shoes, socks, and ties (never mind their suits) would pay off my mortgage with change left over for a hybrid car.

:head-desk:

Thank you!

I've gone ahead and downloaded the stories--for personal use only in my e-reader, of course.

But as a more concrete thank-you, I've also bought a second copy of one of your books on Amazon. My previous copies of these Vampire Files books were bought around 1990 and are getting yellowish around the edges, so it was probably about time to replace them anyway.

I also checked your past posts and found that you favored the charity Kiva. So I invested in Anta Mbaye Fall, a woman in Senegal who does great embroidery. Her Kiva webpage is at http://www.kiva.org/app.php?page=businesses&action;=about&id;=75549.

Considering that you'll probably end up with only a few pennies in royalties, and Ms. Anta Mbaye Fall will probably pay back what I loaned her, this isn't very much. But I hate to just download your stories and walk off with them, even if you've given permission for me to do so.

Color me OFFICIALLY GOBSMACKED!

Thank you so much for doing such a generous thing on Kiva! You're an example to all of us on paying it forward. Kiva is such a great bootstrap thing for folks in other parts of the world just trying to have a better life.

Okay, feeling warm and glowy towards people again. It's been some while. :cyber hugs:

Thanks also for buying the book--I DO appreciate it! You can call it an early self-Christmas prezzy.

I just got a mail from one of my editors, and the publishing world is doing a push to encourage people to buy books as prezzies this year. I'll be blogging on that soon!

Getting back to being gobsmacked again....

I hope you don't mind me posting this. By profession I'm not a writer, although I do love to write. I'm just a fan of your books, especially the Vampire Files. I just love Jack Fleming. ;o)

I'm sorry this happened to you and I hope that you catch the persons responsible and give them several wacks.

I have a webpage over on the Harold Lloyd community at yuku dot com, and highly recommended your books and told other users where to find your books on line at places like Amazon and eBay (where I purchased mine). I also wanted to ask if I could add you as a friend to my Living Journal on here? I'm new on here. Thanks in advance. - miss ada jones

Welcome, welcome! The more the merrier!

Thank you so much for spreading the word around, I do appreciate it.

I'll have to check the Harold Lloyd site out, always loved his work, there's just not enough of it!

You're welcome.

Since I couldn't find an off topic on the HL forum to recommend your books, most fans wanted to know what best book had Harold Lloyd in it, I made my own site and the link can be found here with the recommendation found here:

http://missadajones.theharoldlloydcommunity.yuku.com/

I should have it linked to my L J page somewhere. I found some of Harold Lloyd's silents on a dvd box set and enjoyed watching them. He is quite the amazing daredevil. If you need any help tracking down the e-pirates sign me up too to raid their cyber ship. I work at my computer 7 hrs. a day. I help my mother with her new on line magazine. She is accepting submissions of short stories (only at this time), poems, fiction, non fiction in every genre, so it keeps me busy when I'm not working on my stories, or on my own webpages. Take care.