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We will never know what was wrong with the game, some people say 13-2 is better, others say it's 13. Some prefer 13s story others 13-2s story. Then the maps, battle, voices, are also in the hate them or love them department. In reality, the game is perfectly done in an objective point of view. But then comes the butt hurt from the past and fanaticism.

The game is far from "well made, in an objective point of view". From the very moment you take your hard-earned (or not) money from your wallet and pay the cashier to buy a game, whatever opinion you have of it is everything BUT objective. You CHOSE to purchase it. Nobody put it in front of you. There were external, internal and emotional stimuli that made you gravitate toward that particular title, pay for it, and take it home. Period.

Secondly, I don't think "being butthurt from past games" is that bad. It's called "having stardands". Do these standards go up a little too high at times? Of course they do. How can they not, with such a brilliant series? But then again, don't take my word on that choice of adjective. I'm "not being objective" on it, as you would put. And very correctly, to be honest.

The point is, past games were better, the company grew, became richer, got more experience in the business, all-in-all should have become better. It's not like "Square-Enix" is a living, breathing entity. The people working there have come and gone, but overall, the growth of a company to such lengths implies a much tighter quality control. The torch has been passed, but by this point, only the very best get to hold it. Thinking otherwise is foolishness. It's like those morons blaming a single script writer at BioWare for the entire downfall of RPG quality when in reality, that fault is, has always been, and will continue to be attributed to the idiots who keep buying the games to assure BioWare that they don't have to try that hard.

This brings me to another point. If people complain that the games are getting worse, DON'T BUY THEM. I'm not saying this in a youtubian sense, supported by some sort of hilariously forced internet pride. I'm being genuine. All your opinions are very genuine and overall should be accepted. You can't argue an opinion. Only a fucknugget would walk into a wall to figure out it hurts them, only to repeat the mistake to make sure.
But if you DON'T like it, DON'T buy it. It sure as hell will contribute to making a point more than going on RPGSite and complaining of how "finalfantasy 6 wuz bettar lolololz nub", like the kid that drops up in every single Final Fantasy thread on here.

The game in and of itself is far from being "perfect". Nothing that exists can be "perfect" -- it's an abstract adjective that can only be used in theist contexts, and mostly, is used incorrectly or incoherently.
It lacks a lot of things that pulled on the fans' heartstrings when they were younger, and that might just be the case. People are often too stupid to realize that the series might not have "gotten worse", but in fact, it's only they that have gotten older and have made those games out to be much more than they already have on account of nostalgia.

In conclusion, I don't think it's all that "perfectly done", and I sure as hell don't hate it. I'm close to 100%ing it (at least, until the next barrage of pre-finished DLCs come up to take some Euros off my wallet), and I'm quite satisfied. But when the vast majority of the long-time fans of a certain series state the same exact thing, it can't be just mass-hysteria.

Well for starters, I buy games of all kinds. True a certain look always attracts me, but I don't stay true to only one genre.

Call it what you may. Those standards cause clouded judgement. I'm sure you've seen enough "ps3 vs 360" arguments.

And how have they gotten "worse"? The best answer I've heard, and the worst, is that they strayed from the main elements of the past. As you say, standards. The game is not badly made, people have standards, and butt hurt. Something similar to the reception of devil may cry 5.

This makes no sense. How can you know if you'll like a game by not buying it? A better answer would have been, don't buy them, rent them.

Well, games already have a standard set of questions to answer, which define if a game is well made. the gameplay is solid, but people complain it's too easy. The story won't drop you from your chair, but it is not out of place or badly written. I'm sure if I can understand it, everyone can. The voices are in no way bad, and I've played countless jrpgs with english voice overs to see bad acting from a good one. The graphics, textures and such, I'm sure at least everyone can accept this. Can you believe someone told me they were too detailed and that you could see the developers were trying too hard? god forbid they do hahaha. And the one things people rarely bother to find out, is how the creators view the game. I have not seen what the creators intended for this one other that to fix what fans complained about in the first game. But many times games that I would have let go, I enjoyed a lot more once I knew what the developers intended to convey.

Or can it? All I see in comments since 13 came out is a cult revolting.

Loved you answer. I want to keep that discussion up, if you don't mind, though.

Standards cause clouded judgement, indeed. Hence why there are such things as professional reviews. But reviews do not and cannot reflect an entire demographic target. Hence why there are such a thing as rentals.

The difference between Final Fantasy and Devil May Cry is that people come to terms with it. Very few people came to terms with Final Fantasy XIII and I doubt anyone will be forgiving Square Enix for it. However, whereas DMC fans were raging and acting like apes on steroids over Nero, now they love him and he's a "classic character of the series". The new problem now is Dante's new appearence. And after two years past its release, people are going to love it too. It's an endless cycle of rage coming from people with very little (or nothing) to do with their time.

Know what to count on. I'm not necessarily saying that you'll know right off the bat that you won't like a game. But if people keep saying "oh it's all going downhill!", "there'll never be another good Final Fantasy!", or if they're absolutely sure the quality is becoming tainted, then stop buying. It's as simple as that. Few buys garantee a change in the quality because it'll assure the company that they're doing it wrong. A lot of people don't know this, apparently. Or purposefully ignore it and give into the masses. It's like voters. People complain about the government day in and day out (even on their 500+ dollar laptop that their somewhat sheltered life has enabled them, fucking hypocrits), but yet they keep voting when history is full of proof that nothing will ever change. Ignorant or perhaps outright denying the fact that if the vast majority of a country's populace relegates their right to vote, the people in line to become part of leading the country have to be changed. All of them. That sure would fix a lot of issues. Problem is, nobody wants to take the first step.

Whether or not people are right about their complaints is unnecessary. People WILL complain. That's just how it goes. Even back in the day, in the "oh-so golden age of Final Fantasy", there were people complaining. It's just how it is. It is inevitable. Some prick will find something to vomit about, and everybody else hops on the "I want to be different" bandwagon (see the irony in that?).
The game effectively IS too easy. The graphics are too pretty, I perfectly agree. However, if they took half the effort they put into that engine and pushed it toward making a much more solid game (a little tidbit of "advice" that a lot of fans throw out there on YouTube and other alienating sources), people would still not be satisfied. Instead, they would gripe about the graphics.

The fanbase is revolting, but for all the wrong reasons. We are getting older. We cannot experience Gaming like we did when we were younger, and a lot of people are either too stupid or too blinded by the lights to realise this. There's nothing like picking up a game that we knew next to nothing about, and discovering all the beautiful details that go into it. There's nothing like the feeling that the community behind your favorite series is so small that you will feel as though the copy you own is that much more personal and special to you. Because "You Saw It First". Games are overrated. Games are overexposed. They're everywhere, and you cannot get away from them unless you completely shut yourself out of the Internet. Heck, even this website is to blame for it. We'd have to save for months (not to mention wait patiently) for that one magazine to get the news we get here on a daily basis. Games have lost their charm because they are no longer "away" from common teenager society. RPGs much less, when every single pseudo-game out there wants to be an RPG *coughSkyrimcoughMassEffectcoughAny thingReallycough*. Even Call of Duty has a Level-Up system nowadays.

In conclusion, I wouldn't call it butthurt so much as I'd call it taken completely out of temporal and social context. These games aren't being made for that niche group. They're being made for everybody. And when you try to please everybody, a lot of people end up being unsatisfied or feeling they could have gotten something much better. The same happens today with Anime and Manga. Back in my day and age, with Neon Genesis Evangelion, Rurouni Kenshin, Trigun, Cowboy Bebop and all other beautiful pieces of art, being an Otaku would put you aside from the common teen clique. You'd be effectively different and shunned. And as a backup plan, you'd have the small conventions or group of kids in the yard, who experienced the same ostracisation you did, and would accept you for everything you were and were not. But today, it's so commonplace that, even amongst Anime fans, people have no experience of being forced to become a better person, so they shun people even amongst themselves. My wife works at conventions as a female placemodel/cashier at stores, and she sees it all the time. People humiliating others for less-than-perfect cosplays, amongst other things.

Well... Guess that's it. Sorry for the long post.

Hahaha I really have nothing else to add on this matter, I agree with everything, I don't think we even disagreed to begin with.

Have you played Shadows of the dammed or Bastion by any chance? Your talk of finding amazing games you knew nothing about got me thinking about them, you should play them if you haven't.

I've definitely want to give Bastion a try. I only ever played the Demo, but it looked really interesting.

And I haven't played Shadow of the Damned yet. I bought a pretty-much-new Lost Odyssey from a friend and for 5 Euros more he threw in that game (go figure! Of course I took the offer!). But I let my friend borrow it the same day and he isn't done with it yet, so I haven't even seen it. I have high hopes for it though.

Ah Lost Odyssey, I reached the final disk and for some reason stopped to continue later and never finished it. The small stories inside the game were so awesome, some of them made me teary lmao.

Bastion you can pass it pretty fast, it starts strong and finishes strong.

As for Shadows of the dammed, I can't get enough of that game, the combination of a British skull and Spanish (or Mexican, I could never tell) badass was genius and the romance between his girlfriend is the best I've seen since...any game were romance was included. Or maybe it's just because it was made so impractical that I find it perfect, you be the judge when you play it.

Since we last spoke and went ahead and asked for it back. Turns out my friend had it collecting dust over a pile of new imports, so I just brought it home and started it.

Gotta say the whole mix is somethin' else. Really loving the almost Dante's Inferno/Slaughterhouse romance in this, and the skull is just goddamn hilarious. Pretty awesome gameplay to boot. Loving it so far, but have been juggling it with God of War III (I started playing I and II a long while ago, so I figured I should at least finish the trilogy).

Also looking forward to Tales of Graces F which I got pre-ordered.

Cool, from the god of war series the only one I never finished was the second one and the last one that came out for psp...I should probably finish the psp one now that I think about it.

And speaking of the tales series just a few days back I got Tales of the abyss. My ps3 isn't working thanks to the lights going out while the ps3 was on, so I won't be getting tales of graces yet, I just hope they have new array of attacks and items and monsters, most are repetitions in the abyss but with different story and maps.

Ugh I was really looking forward to getting street fighter vs tekken too, now I have to see if I can fix my ps3 or if I'll have to buy a new one.

FFXIII-2 is on PS3/360 which combined more than make up for the PS2's install base. Kingdoms of Amalur is a new IP, no one was expecting amazing sales. FF has historically sold very well... but it's fallen off quite a bit.

Ok so... where to begin?

1) You're right. But 13-2 was also on 360. The combined install base...
2) Type-0 was a spin-off, and its sales should be compared to others - Crisis Core, FF:CC, things like that. Its performance was comparable and had a comparable drop.
3) KOA: Reckoning was the first entry in a new franchise. 13-2 is a new entry in a storied franchise which has sound tens of millions of units.

It's not like this site hates FF - they come from an FF background and they've always reviewed the games fairly, but they ARE selling less with EVERY subsequent main series entry. That's a bad trend, surely? right?

Sigh......no wonder rpgfan and rpgamer are better and more respected rpg sites.

The ps2's install base was over 100 million at that point which is a much higher install base, number 1 in every region, less than 200 hundred dollars, selling games at 50 dollars.


The ps3/360 on the other hand for the majority of the region have been at best number 3 in every region, over a 200 dollar system and games at 60

yeah the same

13 sold 3-1 on the ps3, so including the 360 in that really doesnt help matters

1) The combined install base...kis lower than the ps2 with other factors
2) Type-0 was a spin-off, so was 13-2 and its sales should be compared to others as well.
3) This last COD sold less, than the others, is that a bad trend?

Assuming sales will increase forever is foolish

PS2 didn't reach 100 million until 2005: http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/30/p laystation-2-reaches-100-million-mi lestone/

FFX-2 came out in 2003.

The slim PS2 wasn't released until October 2004.

Then surely the question then is like... why they weren't able to better leverage the 360 fan base, surely? Lost Odyssey almost made a million on that machine, after all... One of the things I like about this site is they don't bs and they don't act like fanboys; they ask hard questions about the games even if it hurts and this is a hard question about FF13-2 -- and FF in general. FF13-2 is a really good game, the reviews here both agree with that if you read them. Even in spite of the install base and the market collapsing as it has, it should've done better, surely? Like, look at Mass Effect this week - even though it is a different thing.

I respect what you're saying, and I think some people are too quick to jump to doom and gloom, 350k is still something most games dream of.... but a drop's a drop, right?

you guys should just stop arguing. XIII-2 is better. SE is getting better after years of seeming to lack direction... that is all that matters, right? Your review says that much

square has never been better this gen

Between the best versions of classic games ( most of which werent localized until this gen)

And new awesome games like TWEWY, dq ix, kh bbs, valkyrie covenant, 13-2, tactics advance 2, front mission 2089


I cant complain

That's cause you're a fanboy.