Interview on CNN's Late Edition With Wolf Blitzer

SECRETARY POWELL: Thanks Wolf. It's good to be back.

MR. BLITZER: Are you confident there will be elections in Iraq in January?

SECRETARY POWELL: Yes. And our goal is to move right through the fall season, improve security throughout the country and have the elections as scheduled at the end of January of 2005. That's Prime Minister Allawi's goal, and all of our efforts are being directed toward that end.

MR. BLITZER: Even if there are so called "no go" zones, Pentagon words, "no go" zones where U.S., coalition forces, Iraqi troops dare not enter?

SECRETARY POWELL: The major thrust of our political and military and diplomatic efforts over the next several months will be to make sure there are no "no go" zones. Now, we'll have to see how that unfolds, but right now, our goal is to have these elections. We have to keep this process moving forward. Prime Minister Allawi is committed to it and we are standing alongside with him.

We'll have to see as the fall goes on, but General Abizaid and General Casey are putting together a plan that will return these zones to government control and with the increasing growth of the Iraqi security forces and increasing competence of the Iraqi security forces, hopefully we will have all of these zones under control.

MR. BLITZER: So there will be a military offensive between now and January, in which these "no go" zones will be eradicated?

SECRETARY POWELL: There is a military offensive under way now. You can see the aggressive actions we've been taking in Fallujah lately. There is a political and military offensive under way to take back Samara. It's not always just go in and use the military; use consultations with tribal leaders. But what we're going to do over the next several months is to go into these areas and bring them back under government control.

Now, it remains to be seen how successful we will be, but right now we are moving to have elections at the end of January of 2005. We believe it's important to keep that firmly in mind as a goal and to use all of our efforts: military, diplomatic, reconstruction money is now starting to flow at a much higher rate, all for the purpose of keeping on track.

MR. BLITZER: Listen to what the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said this week, causing some major concern. Listen to this.

SECRETARY RUMSFELD: Let's say you tried to have an election and you could have it in three-quarters or four-fifths of the country, but some places you couldn't because the violence was, was too great. Well, that's -- so be it. Nothing's perfect in life. So you have an election that's not quite perfect.

MR. BLITZER: What do you make of that?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, our goal is to have a full, free, fair election where all the people of Iraq are given the opportunity to vote, and that's the goal that we're striving for.

MR. BLITZER: Well, are you ready to have elections that are not perfect?

SECRETARY POWELL: You know, there will be polling stations that are shot at, there will be insurgents who will still be out there who will try to keep people from voting. But I think what we have to keep shooting for and what is achievable is to give everybody the opportunity to vote in the upcoming election, to make the election fully credible and something that will stand the test of the international community's examination.

MR. BLITZER: Now, you're talking about a military offensive between now and the end of January, when the elections --

SECRETARY POWELL: Not just military. It's military and political.

MR. BLITZER: But you're also talking about a political, diplomatic offensive, including an international conference of Iraq and its neighbors and the Europeans, the G-8, if you will. What exactly do you have in mind?

SECRETARY POWELL: This really is an idea that Prime Minister Allawi had and we are helping him with it. What he wants to do is to bring all of Iraq's neighbors together --

MR. BLITZER: Including Iran and Syria?

SECRETARY POWELL: Including Iran and Syria; and to have the G-8 join so the industrialized nations are there, and talk about the situation in Iraq, how their neighbors can be more helpful and should be more helpful. And we're going to help the Prime Minister with this conference. It may be in October, that's what we're shooting for, but it might be in early November. It's important to have a well-organized conference, not by any particular date.

MR. BLITZER: Where would it take place?

SECRETARY POWELL: It'll take place in the region and there are a couple of cities that are being considered: Amman, Cairo. There may be other places that it could be held, but it's an important part of reaching out. And if you recall, when were discussing this earlier in the year in the United Nations, a number of my Security Council colleagues wanted to see this kind of conference take place, and some of them wanted to see an even broader international conference.

We may well have a broader international conference at some point, but this was a way to reach out to Iraq's immediate neighbors and persuade them that this is the time to help Iraq so that the region can become stable.

And with the presence of the industrialized nations, I think it adds a little bit more oomph to the conference and brings in those who can contribute more in the way of resources to stabilizing the situation and helping the Iraqi people.

MR. BLITZER: Is Syria playing a constructive role right now in trying to prevent foreign terrorists from infiltrating across its border into Iraq?

SECRETARY POWELL: We believe Syria can do more and I had conversations earlier this week with the Syrian Foreign Minister, and Syria is prepared to enter into discussions with the Iraqi Interim Government and with coalition forces.

And two weeks ago, Assistant Secretary of State Bill Burns, with a delegation consisting of Pentagon officials from both the military and civilian side of the Pentagon and White House officials, went to Damascus and laid all of our demands and requirements and expectations out before President Bashar Assad.

And in my conversation with the Syrian Foreign Minister, I think they are beginning to understand that it is in their interest to not see their border as a porous feature that can be used for terrorists to get into Iraq.

MR. BLITZER: Because as you know, in the aftermath of that meeting in Damascus, U.S. officials and Syrian Government officials, including President Assad, there is talk of military-to-military cooperation --

SECRETARY POWELL: Right.

MR. BLITZER: -- Iraqi military, U.S. military, coalition military and Syrian military --

SECRETARY POWELL: Right.

MR. BLITZER: -- strengthening some of the, the border areas. Is that happening already?

SECRETARY POWELL: That is happening, and we're calling them tripartite talks on the border. It's a very porous border. It's not an easy border to control. And it's a border that people have been going back and forth across, smuggling and doing other things for thousands of years. But with additional technical equipment put in place and with cooperation between the sides, we can do a better job.

The conversations I had with the Syrians this week did not clear up all of the outstanding issues that we have with the Syrians, but I found it to be more positive than the earlier conversations I'd had.

MR. BLITZER: Did they indicate that they would be willing to participate in this international conference?

SECRETARY POWELL: There's -- I have not spoken to them directly about that. That's for Prime Minister Allawi to do, but I have seen no resistance and heard of no objection to participation in such a conference.

MR. BLITZER: And that conference would be at the Foreign Ministers' level?

SECRETARY POWELL: We would hope to have it at the Foreign Ministers' level if all schedules permitted.

MR. BLITZER: While we're talking about Syria, there's a report today that a Hamas leader in Damascus was gunned down, was killed, and there are suggestions that the Israelis did it. What can you tell us about this?

SECRETARY POWELL: I just saw that report a few moments ago; Wolf, and I have no other information on it other than the wire service information.

MR. BLITZER: Apparently there was a strike against a car in which he was --

SECRETARY POWELL: I don't know the details of the incident.

MR. BLITZER: If, in fact, the Israelis were responsible for killing a Hamas leader in Damascus, that seems to be a new element, a new escalation in this war that's been going on between the Israelis and the Palestinians.

SECRETARY POWELL: In the absence of more information, I don't think I should go there with this because I don't know anything more than a press report I looked at a few minutes ago.

MR. BLITZER: Let's talk, get back to this whole issue of the "no go" zones because Fallujah's been a sensitive subject, as you well know -- parts of Fallujah right now clearly not under coalition, Iraqi or U.S. control.

I want you to listen to what Marine Corps Lieutenant General James Conway said about the decision to prevent the Marines from finishing the job in Fallujah when they thought they could.

GEN CONWAY: When you order elements of a Marine division to attack a city, that you really need to understand what the consequences of that is going to be. And not, perhaps, vacillate in the middle of something like that. Once you commit, you've got to stay committed.

MR. BLITZER: It sounds like he's upset that they held the Marines back from finishing it off when they could.

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, we did have to consider the consequences of a full-scale assault on the city at that time, back in April. And one of the consequences might have been the total collapse of the political process. The Governing Council, at that time, would have probably fallen apart if there had been a full-scale assault on the city.

We don't like the situation in Fallujah, and when you talk about "no go" zones, Fallujah is the tough one. The other ones, I think, are more manageable: Ramadi and Samara, I think we will get those back under control and then we'll have to deal with Fallujah. But we're not waiting until the last minute.

As you noted, this week we have been taking more and more aggressive action against insurgent locations within Fallujah. We understand the challenge that we are facing and our military commanders are gathering their resources and starting to put in place plans that will deal with these so called "no go" zones. Most of them are in the Sunni Triangle. When you go outside the Sunni Triangle, you go to the southern part of the country or the northern part of the country, although there are incidents that take place there, in general, it's relatively stable: Municipal councils are being formed; people are holding elections; schools are being rebuilt.

As Prime Minister Allawi said, there are many good things that are going on. The reconstruction money is now starting to flow. As of yesterday, roughly $7 billion has been obligated and committed. Hasn't been spent yet --

MR. BLITZER: Only about a billion has been spent --

SECRETARY POWELL: A little over a billion, which is three times more than at the end of June, when we changed responsibility from CPA over to Ambassador Negroponte. So this is ramping up quickly, and this money will really start to flow in considerable quantities.

MR. BLITZER: There is a story in the new issue of Time Magazine suggesting that there was an intelligence finding, a recommendation that the U.S. take overt or covert measures to help certain politicians in Iraq get elected in these upcoming elections. It came under some resistance from some members of the intelligence committees up on the Hill. What can you tell us about this?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, obviously, we never discuss covert programs, but in this instance I will say that we have a record of overtly supporting candidates for government, candidates for office in governments that are going through the process of transitioning to democracy. And so we will be providing assistance for capacity building in parties so that we can see a political system come alive in both Iraq and Afghanistan, and we'll be doing it overtly.

MR. BLITZER: Overtly. So there's not going to be a covert program?

SECRETARY POWELL: I don't discuss covert programs, but I will say that we do have overt programs, and everybody knows about them.

MR. BLITZER: So you'll, somebody like Prime Minister Allawi you would presumably support?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, we do -- we don't go after specific candidates. What we try to do is create capacities so that all those who want to participate in the electoral process and want to create political parties and need help in creating those parties and getting their message across, we will be providing assistance overtly as we have done in many places around the world.

MR. BLITZER: At that news conference in the Rose Garden, when the President was with Prime Minister Allawi this week, the President said something rather provocative. I want you to listen to what he said and get your interpretation of what he meant.

PRESIDENT BUSH: If we stop fighting the terrorists in Iraq, they would be free to plot and plan attacks elsewhere in America and other free nations.

MR. BLITZER: Is he -- what is he suggesting there?

SECRETARY POWELL: What he's suggesting is that terrorism is not just restricted to targets in the United States and not just in Iraq. We are facing a worldwide problem with terrorism. And a number of terrorists have now seen fit to go to Iraq to start trouble and to join the insurgency. And they might as well be dealt with there, because these are the sort of terrorists that will go to other places in the world and start trouble.

MR. BLITZER: So the terrorists in Iraq who are fighting, whether the insurgents, the Fedayeen, the Saddam loyalists, or whoever, if the U.S. doesn't get the job done in Iraq there, they might come and attack the United States?

SECRETARY POWELL: These individuals might go somewhere else and attack. They did not start in Iraq. They came to Iraq from elsewhere and the nature of these organizations, especially al-Qaida, is that they will seek trouble somewhere. They will conduct their terrible crimes somewhere else in the world if it is not here.

Now, I would just as soon they not be in Iraq or anywhere else, but if they are in Iraq causing trouble, let's destroy them in Iraq so they can't go anywhere else.

MR. BLITZER: The -- UN Secretary General Kofi Annan this past week suggested that the whole U.S.-led war in Iraq was illegal. I want you to listen to what he said.

SECRETARY GENERAL ANNAN: Those who seek to bestow legitimacy must themselves embody it. And those who invoke international law must themselves submit to it.

MR. BLITZER: Tough words.

SECRETARY POWELL: Yeah, he didn't specifically identify Iraq in his speech. He did a week earlier though, to be precise.

MR. BLITZER: In that BBC interview.

SECRETARY POWELL: In a BBC interview he used the language that it was illegal. We disagree with that. We believe it is legal and we have a strong case to make. And we've made that case.

In his comments earlier this week at the UN in his speech, he was talking about legitimacy both within everyone's nation and then as we conduct international affairs. And we certainly subscribe to the notion of legitimacy in what we do. And what we did in Iraq, we think, rested on a solid legal base. A legal base that reflected twelve years worth of UN resolutions directed against the Saddam Hussein regime, with which they did not comply. That's the reason President Clinton went after them in 1998 in Operation Desert Fox when he bombed for four years.

UN Resolution 1441, in our judgment, the resolution before the war, in our judgment, provided a sufficient legal base on top of all of the other previous resolutions.

MR. BLITZER: A couple of points before I let you go. Several Republicans, including your Deputy, Richard Armitage, made some provocative statements, as well. Senator Hatch: "Terrorists are going to throw everything they can between now and the election to try and elect Kerry." Armitage: "Terrorists are trying to influence the election against President Bush." Dennis Hastert, the Speaker of the House: "I think you'll see al-Qaida trying to influence this election."

MR. BLITZER: What's your best reading on al-Qaida? Are they trying to get President Bush defeated?

SECRETARY POWELL: I can't speak for Usama bin Laden. What I do know is that they will seek to conduct terrorist attacks around the world in any nation that they judge is against their desires. And what they're trying to do right now in Iraq is to keep the Iraqi people from having a successful election at the end of January of 2005.

The terrorists and the insurgents in Iraq are determined to affect the Iraqi election. Now our election happens to come between then and now. But I think their principal goal is not to allow the Iraqi people to have a free and fair election. And I don't want to get into speculation about who's doing what to whom concerning the election.

MR. BLITZER: We have to leave it right there, Mr. Secretary. Thanks very much.

QUESTION: Thank you.