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optimistic

12 May 2006

In response to the discussion over the top story on reddit's front-page at the moment, we've made the hot page no longer count down votes. Down-votes still influence your recommendations, which, by the way, are in for a major overhaul soon, but the hotness algorithm is only going to pay attention to the up votes for the time being.

In addition, where the score used to be displayed as "points," it's now displayed as "ups." There are a few glitches still (when you vote it says "points" still, for instance), but this is a potentially temporary change.

One change that we should see immediately is that the stories that are currently controversial, but formerly had a score near 0, are now bubbling up on the hot page.

We're not sure the exact ramifications of this change, but we're going to give it a couple days to see how it works.

Comments

Good idea.

With regards to the merch mentioned a few days ago, you should make stickers we can put on our laptops. Preferably the Color Shock type (which are see through, and you can peel them off if you get tired of them later without leaving a mark).

color shock, eh? Thanks, I'll take a look. We've actually got some reddit stickers (not seethru), a couple are even adorning our powerbooks right now, but I can't tell you how well they peel off. (besides, why would anyone want to peel their reddit sticker off?)

but I'm not loged in??

OK, I'm checking out these decal stickers... but you all have to promise not to stick them to your cat. Or if you do, promise that you'll upload the footage to youtube.

Interesting.

It isn't everywhere you see immediate feature changes as the result of a user conversation. Nice work. :-)

You all use reddit more than we do. Besides, our moms never give us any objective feedback.

want really negative feedback? get a girlfriend :)

One thing that's slightly confusing is that top is sorted by score (ups - downs), but scores shown are ups, not points. At first glance, the scores seem to be out of order. It might be better if top displays scores in points and hot displays them in ups. I'm not sure if I like this, but I'll reserve judgement until I see what the front page looks like for the next couple days.

I can't wait to see the overhauled recommendation engine. That thing[0] you're working on should make it a lot better. Keep up the good work!

[0] I'm not telling.

We've got some friends at the NSA who will make sure of that ;-)

kn0thing -> reddit -> YCombinator -> RTM -> Robert "Bob" Morris -> NSA

ack!

Perhaps now we won't get moded down to -1 immediately by a mere handful of redditers and then have the article be assigned to obscurity without geeting sufficient exposure time.

I think this is a good step forward. Also It would be nice if people could only up 3 things a day. That may drive people to be more choosy about what they recommend.

Nah, if you're gonna go down that road, let people vote for as much as they want, but dilute the power of their votes: like, if you vote for three things a day, your votes have twice as much power as if you vote for six.

I think this is dumb. If i wanted to read Digg, i'd go to Digg. What's the reason for the change?

Ah, but digg's hot page doesn't actually take in to account votes-- things only move down. The reason for the change is that many users (including myself) are [vocally] concerned that otherwise good stories are getting whacked by so many down-votes. This probably isn't a final solution, but it's an experiment that should lead us in the right direction.

Huh, I was just wondering why my submissions seemed to get a large boost; this explains it. Bravo for at least trying this out. Who knows, maybe eventually there will be a compromise: repress down votes until a story reaches the front page. Then, with many eyes viewing the article, if people mod it down off the front page, at least it got a fair chance.

Very good "first fix".......

But please do not leave it at this. We need to have all political and religious submissions delegated to a sub-page to let those who want to 'rage on' about politics (or religion) do so amongst themselves.

Repeat.... very good 'first fix' - I like it - I also like your responsiveness. (Just do not stop here)

"Amen."

Huzzah!

I think it will only make Bush-related posts more prominent.

Yes, we've got plans for him too.

Do those plans rhyme with nothing?

This is an interesting change. Might let articles which are considered to be 'less mainstream' on Reddit to see a bit more light.

Hey guys. I didn't actually intend the ask reddit question as a criticism of the site so much as an attempt to figure out what caused the seemingly sudden drop in interest level for me. I must admit however, today was very interesting :)

But it seems you gave voice to the zeitgeist...

(I've only just got up, I'm allowed to be pretentious ;)

We're not sure the exact ramifications of this change, but we're going to give it a couple days to see how it works.

One ramification is that we now get to enjoy 'funny' videos of people sticking tape on cats on the front page.

I think it's gonna work better. But please let me sort the comments by older first, like they are on this very page.

thanks, guys :)

(Copy of my comment on the Reddit link to this.)

It isn't turning out well for the features subreddit. Lost of upvoted feature requests a couple of weeks old have disappeared from the hot page; now for some reason only posts within a week ago or more than two months old are showing up.

Not to mention this submission at -5 is still on the hot features page! (You may not see it since the default prefs are to hide posts below -4.)

That makes sense, we didn't recalculate the score for all the old links. We'll do that today, it just takes some time.

cool this is something I've thought might solve the problem for a while, thanks!

I've changed my mind. The old system was broken, but now it is just as broken.

I don't think this will work the way you think it will. What you need is more information about what a vote means not less. What this will do is force the lowest common denominator stuff float to the top. I expect the Reddit hot page to have a lot of the equivalent of "puppy and kitten" videos that everyone will be able to agree on with an up vote.

The strength of Reddit is the diversity of opinion which generates interesting stories. A quick solution was not the one you wanted. Watch as the the front page begins to look more like bubble gum.

Saying No is just one of the key indicators that makes user selected editorial useful. If nobody can say NO you lose the value of this idea.Roll it back to at least a two value vote and then spend some real time thinking about how best to easily collect more information in the vote.

User create categories or more vote criteria needed- Please discuss is a good place to solicit user feedback on ideas of how on to improve the meaning of a vote

I thought about suggesting such an change a while ago -- and probably many actually suggested this. But what about that: have a "hot" section, which works as usual (something near (ups - downs)/time), and a "controversial" section which does (ups + down)/time. Or, perhaps, only count ups, for that matter.

You would lose something, though, and that is the single clear voice of reddit, the final reddit judgement. So I'm undecided which I find best. Being undecided, of course, does not belong to the privileges of an entrepreneur.

Still one other feature wish, while I'm at it: a reddit archive. That would be nice. Enter some date and time and see the historical entries. Frozen, then, of course. That would help me catch up when I lose 2 or 3 days, which is annoying now. (Those 4-day periods of boring stories are rather rare.) And also, you could harvest a certain Zeitgeist later on. When reddit is old enough to let you go back a whole year, for instance. Anyone else thought about that as well? (The anwere is usually "yes," unfortunately ;-)

I've recently started using (Slogger)[http://www.kenschutte.com/firefoxext/] an extension for Firefox that saves each and every webpage I visit. Pretty soon I should have a large reddit archive. :)

And already we see a decline in the comment quality:

http://reddit.com/info/5vgp/comments#c5vuk

http://reddit.com/info/5ugq/comments#c5uqe

"yy points with xx ups" would be more useful. Up votes is part of the story, Ups + Downs is part of the story, swapping one for the other just swaps one limited view for a different one.

I don't care so much what sorting mechanism you use (as long as I know whaqt it is).

Great, now Reddit = Digg.

Sweet.

cough DIGG cough cough

Seriously though, one of the best things about reddit was that votes counted both ways, I say change it back!

I say, thanks for being caring about what your users think.

Dudes, why didn't you just bury that submission??

What happened to rating comments?!? Now if someone says something I agree with, I can't up-mod, I have to write, "me too" Which I think is an increase of noise, without a boost to signal.

Kudos for responding to the (us?) masses, but I don't think only counting up votes is the way to go. I think you lose useful information. I think there must still be a better way to avoid clobbering stories early. I did like the idea of diluting votes as you vote more. Or having one rocked/sucked (that counts as +5/-5 votes or something) per day. Or something.

Obviously not being able to downmod links is.. less power for users. And less abuse from the.. abusers.

So, I have two proposals. First, introduce a time limit. No more than 4 downmods per hour and let them have at least 10 minutes interval between them.

Second. What about a third option. I'm not interested, so do not put such stuff in "Recommended".

I am so confused!!! What is this freakin thing???

I say go all the way and display ups, downs and points. It tells the whole story and saves readers some mental math. Throw in browse functions for sorting by ups, downs and points and maybe a sticky setting in the prefs for the default setting and you've provided a solution that should please most everyone.

god dammit, this site sucks now. i'm sick of hearing about george bush sucks. i already know that. I DON'T FUCKING CARE.

Holy mother of god, the front-page is unbearable; please change it back!!! The crap is waist-deep.

It doesn't work! CHANGE IT BACK!

Spez, Can you bring back the cute little icons, I miss your smiling face. (How is that for an objective comment?)

http://www.google.com