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NY Phil Players, Fired on Misconduct Grounds, Reinstated



 
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tomdug
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 3:05 pm    Post subject: NY Phil Players, Fired on Misconduct Grounds, Reinstated Reply with quote

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/arts/music/new-york-philharmonic-misconduct.html

EDIT:

Paywalled, but here's an excerpt:

The New York Philharmonic has been forced by an arbitrator to reinstate two players it fired over allegations of unspecified sexual misconduct, the orchestra said on Monday night.

The Philharmonic dismissed the players — its principal oboist, Liang Wang, and associate principal trumpet, Matthew Muckey — in September 2018. Both men denied wrongdoing, and the players’ union filed a grievance challenging their dismissals. The case was heard by an independent arbitrator, who found that the players had been terminated without just cause and should be reinstated.

“We are profoundly disappointed by the arbitrator’s decision,” the Philharmonic said in a statement, adding: “While we obviously disagree with the arbitrator and stand by our original actions and decisions in this matter, we will, as we must, abide by the arbitrator’s ruling and reinstate both players.”
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mhenrikse
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: NY Phil Players, Fired on Misconduct Grounds, Reinstated Reply with quote

tomdug wrote:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/07/arts/music/new-york-philharmonic-misconduct.html

EDIT:

Paywalled, but here's an excerpt:

The New York Philharmonic has been forced by an arbitrator to reinstate two players it fired over allegations of unspecified sexual misconduct, the orchestra said on Monday night.

The Philharmonic dismissed the players — its principal oboist, Liang Wang, and associate principal trumpet, Matthew Muckey — in September 2018. Both men denied wrongdoing, and the players’ union filed a grievance challenging their dismissals. The case was heard by an independent arbitrator, who found that the players had been terminated without just cause and should be reinstated.

“We are profoundly disappointed by the arbitrator’s decision,” the Philharmonic said in a statement, adding: “While we obviously disagree with the arbitrator and stand by our original actions and decisions in this matter, we will, as we must, abide by the arbitrator’s ruling and reinstate both players.”


Good news for Muckey. Is it rare for a musician to win in arbitration?
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JRoyal
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Believe Women.
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trahmput
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="JRoyal"]Believe Women.[/quote]

All women? Like Amber Heard?
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bagmangood
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JRoyal wrote:
Believe Women.


This. You can tell by the messaging of both the union and the orchestra.
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LaTrompeta
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't want to be the guy who knows that your employer hates you and wants you gone, but is only keeping you around for legal reasons.
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mhenrikse
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaTrompeta wrote:
I wouldn't want to be the guy who knows that your employer hates you and wants you gone, but is only keeping you around for legal reasons.


I wouldn't assume that the conductor or principal trumpet have that view. Certainly, their opinion matters most on artistic issues. And I really don't know how much it matters, at this point, if the President of the Phil has the view implied by the official announcement.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bagmangood wrote:
JRoyal wrote:
Believe Women.


This. You can tell by the messaging of both the union and the orchestra.

------------------------------------
NO, I cannot tell - what makes you think the messaging says anything more than what the words say.

e.g.
“We are profoundly disappointed by the arbitrator’s decision,” the Philharmonic said in a statement, adding: “While we obviously disagree with the arbitrator and stand by our original actions and decisions in this matter, we will, as we must, abide by the arbitrator’s ruling and reinstate both players.”

Of course the Phil mgmt SAID they are disappointed - they'd look like Politically-INcorrect dolts if they said they hoped the ruling would go that way.
It would be interesting to know what 'facts', 'evidence', or 'procedure' in the arbitration they disagree with.

(and no, I don't have any knowledge about the details of the situation)

Jay
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MBMinSC
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I subscribe to the NYT. Here is the whole article.

The New York Philharmonic has been forced by an arbitrator to reinstate two players it fired over allegations of unspecified sexual misconduct, the orchestra said on Monday night.

The Philharmonic dismissed the players — its principal oboist, Liang Wang, and associate principal trumpet, Matthew Muckey — in September 2018. Both men denied wrongdoing, and the players’ union filed a grievance challenging their dismissals. The case was heard by an independent arbitrator, who found that the players had been terminated without just cause and should be reinstated.

“We are profoundly disappointed by the arbitrator’s decision,” the Philharmonic said in a statement, adding: “While we obviously disagree with the arbitrator and stand by our original actions and decisions in this matter, we will, as we must, abide by the arbitrator’s ruling and reinstate both players.”

The case was an example of how organized labor can struggle with sometimes conflicting interests as it grapples with a sharp uptick in misconduct cases in recent years. After New York City Ballet fired the star dancer Amar Ramasar in 2018 for sharing vulgar texts and sexually explicit photos of a dancer with a colleague, he won his job back through arbitration with the help of his union, to the dismay of some women in the company.

That delicate balance was reflected in a statement about the Philharmonic reinstatements from the players’ union, Local 802 of the American Federation of Musicians, which said, “Our union exists to ensure the rights of all members are protected. That includes those who report harassment in the workplace as well as those who have been subject to potentially unjust termination.”

No details of the allegations against Mr. Wang and Mr. Muckey have been provided. The Philharmonic has said only that the two players “engaged in misconduct,” and in 2018 the orchestra retained Barbara S. Jones, an attorney at Bracewell and a former federal judge, to investigate. Following the investigation, the orchestra terminated the players.

In its statement on Monday, the Philharmonic quoted from the ruling by the arbitrator, Richard Bloch, that “nothing in this opinion should be read as concluding that all doubt has been removed concerning the actions” of Mr. Wang and Mr. Muckey.

Alan S. Lewis, an attorney representing Mr. Wang, said in an email that “the 20-day arbitration hearing (which took place over the course of eight months), at which Liang testified, finally allowed all of the facts to be fully examined, and after that hearing, Arbitrator Bloch concluded that the Philharmonic had simply failed to prove any misconduct by Liang.”

Steven J. Hyman, a lawyer for Mr. Muckey, said that Mr. Muckey “is eager to return to his position at the Philharmonic.”



Mr. Wang joined the Philharmonic in 2006 as its principal oboist, a key position from which he provides the A pitch the orchestra tunes to, serves as de facto leader of the woodwinds and has frequent solos. Mr. Muckey also joined the orchestra in 2006.

It is unclear when the reinstated musicians will get to play with the Philharmonic again. The orchestra has canceled the remainder of its season because of the coronavirus pandemic. And while not yet canceled, its summer events — including outdoor concerts in city parks, scheduled for June; a planned tour of China in early July; and performances at the Bravo! Vail Music Festival in Colorado, scheduled for late July — may well not go forward, either.

Zachary Woolfe has been the classical music editor since 2015. He was previously the opera critic of the New York Observer.

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astadler
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In its statement on Monday, the Philharmonic quoted from the ruling by the arbitrator, Richard Bloch, that “nothing in this opinion should be read as concluding that all doubt has been removed concerning the actions” of Mr. Wang and Mr. Muckey.


Quote:
That delicate balance was reflected in a statement about the Philharmonic reinstatements from the players’ union, Local 802 of the American Federation of Musicians, which said, “Our union exists to ensure the rights of all members are protected. That includes those who report harassment in the workplace as well as those who have been subject to potentially unjust termination.”


It’s pretty clear that orchestra management believes the harassment claims. And it seems like the union was just doing its job, ensuring that the claims were vetted. Since there wasn’t enough evidence they had to be reinstated, but it sure doesn’t sound like the union is 100% behind them either.
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dfcoleman
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:28 pm    Post subject: Back pay? Reply with quote

So....do these 2 get back pay from Sept 2018 to now?
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bagmangood
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

astadler wrote:


It’s pretty clear that orchestra management believes the harassment claims. And it seems like the union was just doing its job, ensuring that the claims were vetted. Since there wasn’t enough evidence they had to be reinstated, but it sure doesn’t sound like the union is 100% behind them either.


Plus the independent investigator.

I'd guess that it didn't meet the burden of proof for the arbtitrator, but the orchestra and union have concerns about the potential consequences BUT the claims aren't enough due to the implementation of the contract.
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Steve A
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not to diminish the seriousness of the issues at hand, but I don't think this is a great forum for discussing this case, especially in the absence of any concrete evidence in the public domain.
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JayKosta
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve A wrote:
Not to diminish the seriousness of the issues at hand, but I don't think this is a great forum for discussing this case, especially in the absence of any concrete evidence in the public domain.

-----------------------------------
Yes, it probably belongs in the LOUNGE forum.
I am not concerned about the specific people involved, but it is interesting how the Public Relations and Political Correctness of the situation come into play in a situation such as this one.

It's instructive that the investigator hired by the Phil to investigate the matter counseled/ led/convinced the Phil to terminate the men, but then the arbitrator disagreed.
For the Phil mgmt, either way there's no egg on their face about their concern of reported sexual harassment.
The mgmt didn't have to make the decision to NOT terminate, and they aren't responsible for the overturn.

Jay
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trumpetherald
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm locking this now and will likely remove in a few days.

We need to avoid speculation about matters about which we lack concrete information. The above replies are generally in line, so we'll leave as-is for now.

-td
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