Clinton the Baptist - Sex, Sin and Salvation

Topic: White Water

Clinton the Baptist - Sex, Sin and Salvation

Newsweek
Oct 26, 1998 Kenneth L. Woodward

When the Class of 1963 graduated from hot Springs High School, the student chosen to give the benediction was a born-again Baptist named William Jefferson Clinton. "Dear Lord," Clinton began, "... Now we must prepare to live only by the guide of our own faith and character ... Direct us to know and care what is right and wrong so that we will be victorious in this life and rewarded in the next."

Now, 35 years later, Clinton's sense of right and wrong is very much the issue as he tries to atone both spiritually and politically for his sexual sins. In his latest step on the road to repentance, the president recently sent a letter to his Baptist church in Little Rock seeking the congregation's forgiveness. Acknowledging the letter, the Rev. Rex Horn said that Clinton "expressed repentance for his actions, sadness for the consequences of his sin on his family, friends and church family, and asked forgiveness" from the membership. Making such a request is all the Southern Baptist tradition requires of sinners whose transgressions become public. But it is probably not enough to mollify his political opponents--or the conservative leaders of the Southern Baptist Convention, some of whom have urged the president to resign his post. More moderate Southern Baptists, however, see Clinton as both a flawed follower of Christ and an exemplary Baptist president. Either way, Bill Clinton--both the public and the private man--cannot be fully understood without grasping the nuances of his Baptist upbringing.

Clinton's commitment came early. He was "born again" on Oct. 17, 1956, when he marched up the aisle--alone--at Park Place Baptist Church in Hot Springs to accept Jesus Christ as his personal lord and savior. He was 7 years old. In his youth, he walked alone to church and Sunday school, carrying his Bible. He joined the choir and to this day weeps when singing old Baptist favorites. His best speeches are like Baptist sermons--lyrical, seductive appeals for conversion to his message. In his youth, Baptist spokesmen fiercely fought the Roman Catholic Church over aid to parochial schools--and against Catholic efforts to keep abortion illegal. As president, Clinton's most consistent policies have been to protect abortion rights, even the partial-birth variety--and to oppose vouchers for religious schools.

But Clinton's troubled personal life--and his repeated verbal evasions-- also bears a distinctive Baptist stamp. Like most Baptists, Clinton was taught that because he had been born again, his salvation is ensured. Sinning--even repeatedly--would not bar his soul from heaven. "There's no way you can get right with God by doing good," explains the Rev. James Dunn, an FOB and head of the liberal Baptist Joint Committee on Public Affairs. "We do good, not in order to be saved, but because we have been saved."

Doing good because you are saved is the bone of belief that joins Bill the Baptist to Hillary the Methodist at the hip. But Methodists also stress growth in personal holiness as a Christian obligation. Bill attends Hillary's church because Chelsea chose to become a Methodist like her mother. As a born-again Baptist, however, the president believes that what he does in private is nobody's business but the Lord's. "When the president told the nation that his problems were between himself, his family and 'our God,' that was a very Baptist statement," says historian E. Glenn Hinson of Baptist Theological Seminary in Richmond, Va.

Bill was also schooled in the Baptist tradition of freedom of conscience--including matters of sex. Baptists believe in "soul competency," a distinctively Baptist doctrine which emphasizes the right and ability of each believer to interpret the Bible correctly for themselves. Baptists have no creeds. "The only Baptist creed," says Dunn, "is, 'Ain't nobody but Jesus goin' to tell me what to believe'." For full-blooded youths like the adolescent Clinton, these Baptist doctrines offered considerable room for maneuvering through the sexual revolution of the 1960s. "You went to church to meet girls," recalls Texas Baptist David Solomon, now a professor of philosophy at Notre Dame. "And with a girl you listened to Billy Graham on the car radio Sunday nights before getting around to what you really had in mind." What Jesus seemed to be telling imaginative Baptist teenagers was that they could work out their own personal rules, permitting some forms of sexual experience without feeling guilty.

Clinton's adult sexual behavior fits this adolescent pattern. Many of his coreligionists believe the president spoke Baptist truth when he testified that he did not have "sex" with Monica Lewinsky. "Our basic rule growing up Baptist was that anything short of penetration didn't count," says Steve Marini, a Wellesley College religion professor who is Clinton's age. "Some of us also drew a line at ejaculation, which is what the president tried to do with Monica. She couldn't understand that because she didn't know the Baptist rules." No sex, in short, means no adultery--a word Clinton has yet to use regarding his "inappropriate" behavior. "What he did is disgusting, but not what I would consider adultery," says Foy Valentine, who was head of the Southern Baptists' Christian Life Commission for 27 years-- the years of Clinton's youth. "And I think that most Baptists would agree." The nation's First Baptist certainly seems to--and he formed his world view not in the dark of a Saturday night but in the light of a Sunday morning.

Puke!

To: The_Republican
man made religion ----------- need to read their BIBLES and this time really read it
From: unda (emailname) *
10/26/98 10:29:40 PST

To: The_Republican
italics? ahhhh
From: dragon6 (hereIam!) *
10/26/98 10:37:44 PST

To: ghost of nixon
Hey...isn't it time to dispense with these false religions. There is only one true Church and that is the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Founded by Jesus Christ on his apostles Peter and Paul. As Clinton is some kind of baptist, does it really surprise anyone that he is so morally corrupt. Of course Hillary is a methodist. 'Nuff said there!
From: lexparkmd () *
10/26/98 10:39:26 PST

To: lexparkmd
What I would really like to see is another Inquisition. Let's burn a few baptists. It's the only way to purify their souls. Well, those that haven't sold their soul to the Devil (i.e., Bill Clinton and his mother/wife Hillary).
From: lexparkmd () *
10/26/98 10:42:18 PST

To: mr. bob
I may be wrong here--do you have to turn off these annoying italics or can I??? I can't hardly read in italic--I barely know english....LOLOLOL
From: dragon6 (hereIam!) *
10/26/98 10:46:01 PST

To: dragon6
Dear Dragon6, I didn't mean to confuse you. I don't write italics, it's the other guy!!!
From: mr. bob (emailname) *
10/26/98 10:54:40 PST

To: dragon6
Dear Dragon6, I didn't mean to confuse you. I don't write italics, it's the other guy!!!
From: mr. bob (emailname) *
10/26/98 10:54:52 PST

To: lexparkmd
As a member of the same denomenation as WJBC (MUCH to my chagrin), I cannot let this stand without comment. As a point of clarification before my rant, WJBC is a member of a Southern Baptist church. Several demoninations of Baptists exist - each with a few theological differences.

[indignation]

First of all, it is neither my place nor my right to question the salvation of WJBC. It is conceivable that he has been genuinely saved. The words of James, brother of Jesus, however, lay a heavy indictment at WJBC's feet:

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead,
being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith,
and I have works: show me thy faith without thy
works and I will show you my faith by my works...
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so
faith without works is dead also.
- James 2: 17-18,26

Not to overstate the role of works - it clearly cannot save according to The Bible. WJBC's positions on any of a number of issues departs from the Bible - the partial birth abortion being a prominent issue (I do not bring up PBA to stir a contentious controversy - rather to point out that WJBC takes a position on this issue that is diametrically opposed to the vast majority of those who call themselves Southern Baptist).

Which brings up another point. The author of this article is so clearly ignorant of the Southern Baptist faith that the narrative is ridiculous, absurd, and outrageous. The Southern Baptist faith does indeed have a creed - it is called the "Baptist Faith and Message". It does not in any way, shape, fashion, or form condone an "anything goes" attitude. While the SB faith believes that God stands ready to forgive any transgression at any time, that is far different than implying that SB members believe you can do anything Saturday night because you will be forgiven Sunday morning.

Rather, the SB faith endores repentance. Repentance is the turning away from sin coupled with the asking of forgiveness. You cannot have one part without the other, and the author of this Newsweek article displays his ignorance in bypassing this important distinction.

WJBC's conduct has absolutely nothing to do with the priciples endorsed and adopted by Southern Baptists. And SB's everywhere stand amazed that someone with such a background could turn out the way he has. Amazed and ashamed. Not ashamed of the faith or in the apparent failure to teach God's principles to a now-prominent individual. Rather, ashamed that everytime WJBC opens his mouth or takes an action, he soils the reputation and witness of an entire generation of Christians. You will never hear that stated publicly, however, because SB's believe that forgiveness is part of a personal relationship with God. And being personal, it is not the business of another individual to question that relationship - except where conduct violates clear Biblical principles.

Lest it not be said, WJBC is responsible for his own actions. He is a grown man. He (theoretically) knows the difference between right and wrong. He can make his own decisions. To excuse his conduct on the basis of any aspect of his upbringing is to say that men and women are mere automatons whose actions and reactions are a pure function of their prior experiences - that they have no individuality or true choice. Any thinking person refuses to accept such an argument (except apparently when discussing WJBC's conduct). I choose every day not to pick up a weapon, drive to DC, and take out my political frustrations on the occupants of this land's high offices. And if I one day decide to not make that choice, I will find my self being judged and punished. WJBC is no different. He chooses every day - I do not fault him for that. But he has such an utter lack of backbone that he stands for nothing.

Kenneth L. Woodward displays his stupidity (as opposed to ignorance) when he failed to do the research that a piece like this demands. He obviously talked with a very few people - and likely WJBC's own church - a church that is regarded by the main of the Southern Baptist Convention (the SB organization) as a fringe group with inappropriate points of view on the scriptures and their application to life. So I accuse Mr. Woodward of not doing his job - and further soiling the reputations of SB members everywhere.

And I accuse myself of stupidity of expecting anything better of the 20th century American media. Call me the optimist, but I am truly appalled and disgusted by the blatant furthering of excuses for WJBC. The signature for this generation will be the "it's not my fault" generation. WJBC epitomizes it, and the media is the mouthpiece of it.

BARF!

[/indignation]

From: Kosh () *
10/26/98 11:24:13 PST

To: lexparkmd & Kosh

Hey - if it helps clear Bill Clinton's name, I'm for it.

Seriously, though - I am disgusted by Woodward's trashing of the Baptists - which really was a swipe at all Evangelicals. I appreciate Kosh's reasoned defense of the faith. As far as Bill's eternal fate is concerned, I recall that after he was defeated at the polls the one and only time in 1980, he started going to church again at Immanuel Baptist church, and even joined the choir - positioning himself just behind the pastor where he would be seen by all those watching the televised services at home.
From: ghost of nixon (emailname) *
10/26/98 12:06:57 PST

To: Slyfox
Baptist denominations are as varied as protestantism, and Southern Baptists are as varied as baptists. Clintong obviously comes from the branch that uses the Swiss Cheese for Modern Man Abridged Paraphrase of the Bible. You know, the one that omits,

"Thalt shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife...,"
"if you so much as look at a woman to lust after her, you have already committed adultery with her in your heart," and
"it is good that a man should not touch a woman."

The fact that Clintong has not been baptized is irrelevant to his salvation, except that, like the rest of his behavior, it is an indicator. As Jesus said, "by their fruits ye shall know them." This is also the import of the "faith without works is dead" passage. By faith, we are justified by God; but we are justified before our neighbors by our works. "Works" is an affect of faith. The lack of good works and the presence of bad works are indicators that the faith was false.

As for that faux-Methodist church they attend in D.C., it's so socialist and politically correct, it would make John Wesley turn over in his grave. I was raised Methodist and remember the time they took up an offering for Angela Davis, a commie professor, when UCLA was trying to fire her.

We ARE to judge. Paul upbraided the Corinthian church for failing to judge a man cohabiting with his stepmother. When choosing deacons in Acts, they judged the nominees. Paul even listed qualifications for deacons and pastors (e.g., must be the husband of one wife and able to rule their children well). Judge righteously and without hypocrisy, but DO JUDGE! "Beware wolves in sheep's clothing."

BTW, some Catholic scholars have been honest enough to admit that churches with Baptist-like teachings PRE-DATE the Catholic church -- which started, by the way, with the heretic Constantine (~300 AD), not with Peter. (This is why Baptists are not Protestants. Baptists were, in fact, persecuted by Luther's 'reformed' church in just as bloody a manner as by the Catholic.)

(Speaking of the RCC and commies, which church is responsible for the spread of Liberation [communist] Theology? Hmmmmmmmmmm?)

(Contrary to the tone of my post, I don't harbor any hostility toward Catholics; but we won't be able to come to honest agreements if we don't have honest views of history and of what the Bible says.)
From: WillieWipes (who.me@innocent.com) *
10/26/98 13:31:03 PST

To: Kosh
You said it much more clearly than your namesake on Babylon 5 would have, my friend. I recall that a coalition of pastors implored Clinton not to take the oath of office on the Bible. He, of course, having no shame, did not see any need to grant their request.

As I have often said in preaching, the Bible clearly teaches that believers in Jesus Christ are saved by grace alone through faith alone (cf. Ephesians 2:8, 9) — not through claiming to have faith. And "faith" without works is dead, as you well remind us. It is a fact I personally find deeply searching.

Clinton's behavior is in spite of his brushes with Southern Baptists, not because of them. The Baptist position is the same as the Reformers: sola Scriptura (Scripture alone), and there is no ambiguity in what Scripture says about abortion, homosexuality, theft, covetousness, lying, adultery, immorality, truthfulness, promise-keeping, faithfulness, and a host of other topics on which the POTUS would probably prefer not to hear a passionate sermon.

Jesus says it isn't those who call Him "Lord, Lord" who enter the Kingdom of Heaven (Matthew 7:21a). Rather, it is those who call Him "Lord" with their lips (Romans 10:9), and with lives that show the impact of Jesus' Lordship through obedience (Matthew 7:21b; Luke 6:46; John 14:21; 15:14). —Dan

**Join the discussion in my Biblical Christianity message board!**
From: BibChr (bibchr@jps.net) *
10/26/98 15:19:14 PST

To: SabreWingFireball
Divide and conquer! The leftists just love a Protestant-Catholic fight. I'm a conservative Presbyterian; thus, my positions are the classic Reformation positions of Sola Scriptura, Sola Gratia, Sola Fide. The Roman Catholic Church believes in Bible plus tradition, free grace plus personal cooperation, faith plus works. I don't kid myself in believing that I am articulate enough to convince Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, or Anglicans of the correctness of the Reformation positions. I doubt the writings of Chesterton, Belloc, Newman, etc., would convince most evangelical Christians to abandon the crucial differences which we believe are derived from the Bible.

The Thirty Years War is over, as is the Spanish Inquisition, and the Protestant Ascendancy in most of Ireland. The Jesuit Order is more interested in promoting socialism than reversing the Reformation. The Know-Nothings are but a forgotten memory in pre-War between the States history. The enemy is the liberal secular humanist culture, which, rather than Southern Baptist religion, is the true genesis of Bill Clinton. What he may have learned in Sunday School was overridden by his years in Georgetown, Oxford, and Yale. Splitting the enemy into evangelical Christian and Roman Catholic camps, with further splinters of orthodox Jews, Eastern Orthodox, Mormons, secular conservatives, is just what the liberals want.

I would vote for Pat Buchanan or Alan Keyes ANY DAY even if they do not subscribe to Sola Scriptura, Sola Gratia, Sola Fide. I hope that Roman Catholics would hold similar regard for Gary Bauer or John Ashcroft.
From: Wallace T. () *
10/26/98 19:49:36 PST

To: SLR
SLR,

"To: ghost of nixon Hey...isn't it time to dispense with these false religions. There is only one true Church and that is the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Founded by Jesus Christ on his apostles Peter and Paul. As Clinton is some kind of baptist, does it really surprise anyone that he is so morally corrupt. Of course Hillary is a methodist. 'Nuff said there! From: lexparkmd () *"

AND:

"To: lexparkmd What I would really like to see is another Inquisition. Let's burn a few baptists. It's the only way to purify their souls. Well, those that haven't sold their soul to the Devil (i.e., Bill Clinton and his mother/wife Hillary). From: lexparkmd () *

Sorry, but let's get our facts straight. Willie Wipes did not start this, as you stated.

I don't agree with Willie Wipes assertion that Liberation Theology is caused or supported by the Catholic Church. The actions of a few members should not be confused with an entire denomination. I know, as a Southern Baptist, I don't want anyone thinking we are all like Bill Clinton. The liberal author of this piece does make that assertion.

I have a great respect for the Catholic Church and its traditions. I also, more obviously, have a great respect for my own denomination (Which, by the way, is theologically descended from Calvinists).

I think it should be enough that we are fellow Christians, Brothers and Sisters in Christ. Those things we have in common are what is important. In the grand scheme of things, our differences are incredibly small.

John 3:16 does not specify denomination,

"For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

I see neither the word "Catholic" nor the word "Baptist" in that, the most basic of Christian tenets. Finally, let's remember another admonition: "Love one another."

Regards,
Ken
From: Ken in Eastman (kencarroll@bigfoot.com) *
10/26/98 21:09:20 PST