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June 9, 2000

Reducing Weapons in Schools
  RELATED LINKS:
  The School District of Beloit
  National Crime Prevention Council: "12 Things Students Can Do to Stop School Violence"
  National Children's Coalition Substance Abuse and Gun Violence Resource Center

Party Conventions
  RELATED LINKS:
 
Republican Party of Wisconsin
  Democratic Party of Wisconsin Online

Book Review

Moon Gypsies
  RELATED LINKS:
  The Moon Gypsies official site

Microsoft

WeekEnd Panel
  RELATED LINKS:
  Bill Dixon
  Bill Kraus
  Brandon Scholz


THE FOLLOWING IS A PRESENTATION
OF WISCONSIN PUBLIC TELEVISION.

JERRY HUFFMAN:
WELCOME TO "WEEKEND" EVERYONE.  THAT'S TONIGHT'S MUSICAL
GUEST, THE "MOON GYPSIES."  HI.  I'M JERRY HUFFMAN.  

PATTY LOEW:
AND I'M PATTY LOEW.  OH, THESE GUYS ARE GREAT!  WAIT UNTIL
YOU HEAR THEM.  THEY'RE WONDERFUL.  SO, WE'LL BE HEARING
ALL EVENING FROM THE "MOON GYPSIES," WHICH IS APPROPRIATE,
BECAUSE IT'S A PARTY WEEKEND-- THAT GOES FOR REPUBLICANS
IN MILWAUKEE.  

HUFFMAN:
AND FOR THE DEMOCRATS IN GREEN BAY.  WE'LL BE CHECKING IN
WITH THE DELEGATES TO THE STATE PARTY CONVENTIONS IN
BOTH CITIES.  

LOEW:
PUBLIC RADIO'S STEVE PAULSON IS HERE WITH SUMMER BOOKS
PARENTS WILL ENJOY READING WITH THEIR KIDS.  

HUFFMAN:
FIRST UP TONIGHT, AN END OF THE SCHOOL YEAR REPORT ON THE
STATUS OF WEAPONS AND NEW PEACEKEEPING EFFORTS IN
WISCONSIN HIGH SCHOOLS.  

LOEW:
STAY WITH US FOR THAT AND FOR MORE MUSIC FROM THE "MOON
GYPSIES." TAKE IT AWAY! 

ANNOUNCER:
IT'S "WEEKEND" FOR JUNE 9.  ALSO TONIGHT, A GRAND INTERNET
MEETING OF NORTH AND SOUTH.  TONIGHT, FOR THE FIRST TIME,
WE'RE USING INTERNET II TECHNOLOGY TO FEED "WEEKEND" LIVE
TO THE ATTENDEES AT THE PBS ANNUAL MEETING IN NASHVILLE,
TENNESSEE.  THE FEAT IS MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE FACILITIES
OF VANDERBILT UNIVERSITY AND THE UW'S DIVISION OF
INFORMATION TECHNOLOGIES.  WELCOME, NASHVILLE.  DON'T
WORRY.  WE COME IN PEACE.  DO NOT RESIST.  

ALSO, ON THE PROGRAM TONIGHT, LOOKING THROUGH THE
WINDOWS OF THE MICROSOFT DECISION.  A UW BUSINESS LAW
PROFESSOR PROVIDES A LITTLE BILL GATES 101.  

PRODUCTION OF "WEEKEND" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY
LASERTECH, PROVIDING CUSTOMIZED LASER PRINTING AND
MAILING SERVICES TO BUSINESS, HEALTH CARE AND NONPROFIT
ORGANIZATIONS.  AND BY BLUE CROSS AND BLUE SHIELD,
WISCONSIN'S HEALTH CARE PARTNER FOR NEARLY 60 YEARS,
OFFERING CONSUMERS A CHOICE IN HEALTH CARE PLANS.  




HUFFMAN:
GRADUATION CEREMONIES ARE UNDERWAY TONIGHT AT BELOIT
MEMORIAL HIGH SCHOOL.  355 BELOIT MEMORIAL GRADUATES ARE
RECEIVING THEIR DIPLOMAS AT THIS HOUR.  OUR PERCEPTION OF
SAFETY IN SCHOOLS HAS CHANGED IN RECENT TIMES.  THOSE
CHANGES CAN BE SUMMARIZED IN ONE WORD -- COLUMBINE.  WE
BEGIN TONIGHT WITH THE STORY OF THE STUDENTS AT BELOIT
MEMORIAL WHO TOOK AIM AGAINST VIOLENCE THIS PAST YEAR.  

THIS YEAR, EVERY STUDENT AT BELOIT MEMORIAL HIGH SCHOOL
HAS PASSED UNDER THE RIBBONS OF PROMISE.  SOME 2,000
HOMEMADE RIBBONS SIGNED BY NEARLY EVERY CLASSMATE, TO
SHOW THEY'RE TAKING A STAND AGAINST WEAPONS IN THEIR
SCHOOL.  SOPHOMORE DEANNE GAVNEY AND SENIOR BETH
JACOBSEN WERE THE DRIVING FORCE BEHIND THE CAMPAIGN.  

BETH JACOBSEN:
IN THE RIBBONS THERE IS A QUOTE THAT SAYS, "NOT ME, NOT MY
SCHOOL, NOT MY FRIENDS."  A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK IT CAN'T
HAPPEN TO ME.  WE NEED TO ADDRESS IT AND SAY IT CAN HAPPEN
AND THAT WE WANT TO TAKE A STAND AND SAY WE CAN SOLVE
OUR PROBLEMS IN NONVIOLENT WAYS.  

HUFFMAN:
DOUG REYNOLDS IS BELOIT'S SAFE SCHOOLS COORDINATOR.  HE
SAYS THE RIBBONS ARE PART OF A LARGER EFFORT TO TELL KIDS
IT'S OK TO TALK EVEN IF THEY HEAR ONLY RUMORS OF A WEAPON.  

DOUG REYNOLDS:
I KNOW THAT KIDS, WHEN THEY SEE THAT WE TAKE IT SERIOUSLY,
IT LENDS CREDIBILITY TO THE FACT THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO DO IT. 
IF THEY WERE TO COME TO US CONVERSELY AND SAY I'VE HEARD
THIS, AND WE'D SAY IT'S PROBABLY JUST NOTHING DON'T WORRY
ABOUT IT, THAT WOULD START TO ERODE THE PROCESS.  ON THE
OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN, WHAT WE TRY TO DO IS  FOLLOW ANY
RUMOR THROUGH TO CONCLUSION.  

HUFFMAN:
HOW MANY OF YOU GUYS HAVE EVER SEEN A WEAPON OF ANY
KIND IN THE SCHOOL HERE?  RAISE YOUR HAND.  ONE, TWO, THREE,
FOUR.  

THAT CULTURE OF SILENCE IS HARD TO BREAK.  MOST OF THESE
BELOIT FRESHMEN SAY TELLING IS STILL DANGEROUS.  

STUDENT:
THEY WOULD GET REVENGE ON YOU FOR TELLING ON THEM.  

STUDENT:
EVEN IF THEY DIDN'T DO IT RIGHT AWAY AND THEY WENT TO JAIL
OR HAD AN EXPULSION HEARING, THEY'LL COME BACK TO YOUR
HOUSE, THEY'LL FIND OUT WHERE YOU LIVE AND HURT YOU.  

HUFFMAN:
IF YOU COMPARE STATISTICS, BELOIT IS WINNING THE BATTLE TO
GET WEAPONS OUT OF THE SCHOOLS.  LAST YEAR, THERE WERE 22
WEAPONS EXPULSIONS.  THIS YEAR, HALF THAT AMOUNT, ONLY 11.  

THE GOOD NEWS IN ALL OF THIS IS THAT THE NUMBER OF WEAPONS
IN SCHOOLS ARE DOWN, AND IN SOME CASES, DOWN
SIGNIFICANTLY.  THE BAD NEWS IS THAT THE REMAINING THREAT
OF VIOLENCE HAS FORCED SOME SCHOOL DISTRICTS, LIKE BELOIT,
TO TAKE MEASURES SOME OF US WOULD CONSIDER
EXTRAORDINARY.  

[PHONE RINGING] 

ANSWERING MACHINE TAPE:
I JUST HAD A BOMB CALL.  FIVE MINUTES...

HUFFMAN:
LAST FALL, THE BELOIT SCHOOL DISTRICT STARTED TAPING ALL
INCOMING CALLS.  

SCHOOL STAFF MEMBER:
GOOD MORNING.  THIS CALL IS RECORDED FOR SECURITY
PURPOSES.  BELOIT MEMORIAL HIGH SCHOOL.  MAY I HELP YOU?  

HUFFMAN:
SO FAR, THE TAPES HAVE LED TO TWO CONVICTIONS FOR
STUDENTS WHO PHONED IN BOMB THREATS.  

REYNOLDS:
I'M AMAZED AT HOW, FOR A FEW HOURS OF DISRUPTION TO A
SCHOOL, ALTHOUGH A LOT OF OTHER THINGS GO ALONG WITH THE
DISRUPTION, THE FEAR, CONTINUED ANXIETY THAT BUILDS, THAT
THOSE PERSONS WILL FACE A FELONY RECORD FOR THE REST OF
THEIR LIVES AND I CAN'T UNDERSTAND THAT.  

HUFFMAN:
STATEWIDE, MOST OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS WE CHECKED FOR
WEAPONS WERE DOWN.  THE ONLY EXCEPTION WE FOUND WAS IN
GREEN BAY -- SEVEN WEAPONS EXPULSIONS THIS YEAR, AND
THAT'S UP FROM FOUR A YEAR AGO.  MILWAUKEE DOESN'T HAVE
NUMBERS FOR THIS YEAR, BUT TWO YEARS AGO THERE WERE 113
EXPULSIONS.  LAST YEAR, THE NUMBER DROPPED TO 63.  IN LA
CROSSE, ONE EXPULSION LAST YEAR, NONE THIS YEAR.  IN
MADISON, 19 LAST YEAR, 14 THIS YEAR.  

FIGHTING IS STILL THE BIGGEST THREAT TO SAFETY AT ANY
SCHOOL.  AND EVEN WE WERE SURPRISED WHEN THIS FIGHT
STARTED AT ANOTHER WISCONSIN SCHOOL WE VISITED LAST
WEEK.  IN FACT, NEARLY ONE OUT OF THREE STUDENTS
ACCORDING TO A DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC INSTRUCTION SURVEY
SAY THEY'VE BEEN IN A FIGHT IN THE LAST YEAR.  

MADISON SCHOOL SECURITY DIRECTOR SAYS ONE KEY TO KEEPING
WEAPONS OUT OF SCHOOLS IS TO OPEN THE DOORS EVEN WIDER TO
EVERY STUDENT.  

TED BALISTRERI:
TAKING AWAY THE ANONYMITY OF KIDS, AND HAVING TEACHERS
DEVELOP A RELATIONSHIP WITH EACH OF THEIR STUDENTS.  EVERY
STUDENT KNOWS THAT IF THEY'RE EXPERIENCING A BAD DAY, OR
IF THEY'RE HAVING SOME TROUBLING THOUGHTS, THAT THERE IS
SOMEBODY WITHIN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM THAT THEY CAN GO TO.  

HUFFMAN:
A COMMON LINK IN ALMOST EVERY SCHOOL SHOOTING HAS BEEN A
FEELING OF ISOLATION.  LIKE HIS MADISON COUNTERPART,
BELOIT'S DOUG REYNOLDS SAYS ALL DISTRICTS MUST WORK
HARDER AT BREAKING DOWN BARRIERS.  

REYNOLDS:
BULLYING AND HARASSMENT WAS CITED BY KIDS UNANIMOUSLY
ACROSS THE UNITED STATES IN ALL 50 STATES AS BEING ONE OF
THE TOP TWO CONCERNS IN THEIR MINDS AS THOSE THAT PROVOKE
VIOLENCE IN SCHOOLS.  

HUFFMAN:
AWAY FROM THE RHETORIC SOLVING THE PROBLEMS OF WEAPONS
IN SCHOOLS, A REFRESHINGLY CANNED IT OPINION FROM THE TWO
STUDENTS WHO STARTED THE RIBBONS OF PROMISE.  

JACOBSEN:
WE'RE SICK AND TIRED OF ALL OF THIS HAPPENING.  WE WANT TO
GO TO SCHOOL AND NOT HAVE OUR DAY INTERRUPTED.  

GAVNEY:
ALL THE HYPE FROM THE MEDIA ABOUT SCHOOL SHOOTINGS AND
VIOLENCE,  PEOPLE DON'T WANT IT TO HAPPEN HERE SO THEY'RE
WILLING TO TURN PEOPLE IN.  

HUFFMAN:
JOINING ME NOW TO DISCUSS THE ENVIRONMENT IN SCHOOLS
TODAY, AND HOW KIDS ARE DEALING WITH IT, ARE DR. JAMES
FOGARTY, A LICENSED SCHOOL PSYCHOLOGIST AND DOUG
REYNOLDS, THE SAFE SCHOOLS COORDINATOR AT BELOIT
MEMORIAL, THE SCHOOL WE JUST SAW IN THE REPORT.  DOUG, YOU
ARE WEARING ONE OF THE RIBBONS.  

DOUG REYNOLDS:
ABSOLUTELY.  I'M VERY PROUD TO BE DOING THAT.  

HUFFMAN:
THAT HAS BEEN AN AMAZING CAMPAIGN FOR THE KIDS.  ARE YOU
SURPRISED BY HOW GOOD IT'S WORKED OUT?  

REYNOLDS:
I AM NOT OVERLY SURPRISED BECAUSE I BELIEVE MOST KIDS ARE
STILL GOOD KIDS IN OUR SOCIETY.  STATISTICALLY ONLY FIVE OUT
OF EVERY 1,000 ARE DRIVING THESE KINDS OF SOCIAL ISSUES.  SO,
TO ME, IT'S MORE OF A CONFIRMATION OF WHAT I'VE BELIEVED ALL
ALONG, THAT MOST KIDS ARE STILL GOOD KIDS AND WANT TO BE
RECOGNIZED AS A PERSON IN OUR SOCIETY WHO WOULD CHOOSE
TO TAKE A STAND AGAINST SCHOOL VIOLENCE AND TO HELP US
STOP IT.  

HUFFMAN:
DR. FOGARTY WHEN WE TALKED TO THE NINTH GRADERS THIS
WEEK AND WE TALKED ABOUT, WOULD YOU TURN SOMEONE IN IF
YOU SAW THEM WITH A WEAPON, THEY LOOKED AT ME LIKE I WAS
CRAZY.  

FOGARTY:
YES.  THE CONSPIRACY OF SILENCE.  

HUFFMAN:
HOW DO YOU BREAK DOWN THOSE WALLS AND CONVINCE KIDS IT'S
OK TO TALK?  

FOGARTY:
WELL, IT WILL TAKE A STRUCTURE OR TEMPLATE THAT WE CAN
PUT IN THE SCHOOL STRUCTURE IN LOTS OF WAYS.  THERE IS
SOMETHING CALLED "NATURAL HELPERS," WHICH IS A PROGRAM
THAT YOU CAN PUT ON TOP OF THIS.  IN OTHER WORDS, IT
NETWORKS THE KIDS WHO ARE LIKE YOU'RE SAYING NATURAL
HELPERS IN LOTS OF WAYS.  IT GETS THEM CONNECTED WITH THE
ADULTS AND PUTS A STRUCTURE ON IT, SO THEY HAVE AN
EFFECTIVENESS THAT'S NOT THERE OTHERWISE WITHOUT THAT
TYPE OF PROGRAM.  

HUFFMAN:
DOUG REYNOLDS, WAS THERE A LOT OF COOPERATION IN THE
BEGINNING?  WAS THERE PRESSURE TO TALK?  HOW WOULD YOU
CHARACTERIZE IT, TO GET THE KIDS INTO THE ZONE TO TALK.  

REYNOLDS:
I WOULD SAY THERE WAS A LOT OF COOPERATION.  WHEN I FIRST
APPROACHED THE STUDENT SENATE, WHICH IS ONE OF OUR
GOVERNING BODIES OF THE STUDENTS AT OUR HIGH SCHOOL, I WAS
VERY SURPRISED.  I GUESS I SHOULD SAY AT THEIR OPEN
RESPONSIVENESS TO ME.  I THOUGHT THERE MAY BE SOME
HESITATION, BUT WHEN I PROPOSED THE RIBBON OF PROMISE
CAMPAIGN AND TALKED ABOUT HOW IT BEGAN IN SPRINGFIELD,
OREGON, AFTER THE UNFORTUNATE SHOOTING THERE IN 1998,
DENNIS MURPHY THEIR FIRE CHIEF CREATED THIS SYMBOL OF A
NATION UNITED THROUGH GRIEF TO TURN AROUND PROBLEMS IN
OUR SOCIETY--  TO A PERSON, I ASKED THE STUDENT BODY
COLLECTED AT THAT TIME IF THERE WAS ANYBODY IN THE ROOM
WHO FELT THIS HAD MERIT.  EVERYBODY IN THE ROOM RAISED
THEIR HAND.  SO I WAS VERY COMFORTED BY THAT.  AND
CERTAINLY, THE EXPANSION OF THE PROGRAM AS WE TALKED
WITH OTHER KIDS AND AS WE BUILD ON THIS IN OUR SCHOOL, WE
LOOK FOR GOOD THINGS FROM THIS.  

HUFFMAN:
DR. FOGARTY, WHAT PUTS A CHILD IN THE POSITION TO WANT TO
TAKE A WEAPON TO SCHOOL?  

FOGARTY:
WELL, VULNERABILITY.  IT JUST SO HAPPENS BY PURE
COINCIDENCE I WAS DOING A SEMINAR IN LITTLETON, WISCONSIN,
TWO WEEKS AFTER THE SHOOTING OUT IN COLUMBINE.  AND ONE
OF THE THINGS WE SAW, ESPECIALLY LOOKING AT THE TAPES OF
THE COLUMBINE KIDS AND THE VIOLENCE THAT SEEMS TO BE
COMING, IS WE'VE GOT A NEW GROUP OF KIDS THAT I WOULD CALL
PASSIVE KIDS.  YEARS AGO, WE CALLED THEM GRAY KIDS THAT
DON'T GET NOTICED OR DO ANYTHING ACADEMICALLY
OUTSTANDING, DON'T OFFER ANY BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS.  BUT NOW,
THEY'RE GETTING ORGANIZED AND GETTING TOGETHER AND
SHOWING SOME FRUSTRATION, BECAUSE EVERY PASSIVE CHILD
HAS A LOT OF ANGER INSIDE.  AND SO, WE'RE SEEING SOMEONE
LIKE THAT WITH THE COLUMBINE KIDS, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH THE
TAPES THAT WERE STUDIED, WE'RE FINDING WE'VE GOT SOME
PASSIVE KIDS GETTING ORGANIZED AND THIS ANGER STARTING TO
COME OUT IN DIFFERENT WAYS.  

HUFFMAN:
HOW DO WE BREAK DOWN THESE BARRIERS TO GET THE KIDS TO
START TALKING TO YOU?  IT'S ONE THING TO HAVE SOMEONE SAY
IF THEY SEE A WEAPON, BUT IT'S ANOTHER THING TO HAVE THEM
TALK TO YOU, LIKE TED BALISTRERI MENTIONED IN HIS SHORT
INTERVIEW SEGMENT ABOUT, WE WANT THE KIDS TO HAVE
SOMEONE TO GO TALK TO.  HOW DO YOU DO THAT IN A SCHOOL
SETTING?  

REYNOLDS:
I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO LINK WITH THE
TEACHERS IN YOUR DISTRICT, TO EMPOWER THEM TO
UNDERSTAND THAT BULLYING AND HARASSMENT ISSUES THAT
ARE CERTAINLY NATIONALLY PREVALENT AND RELATED TO
SCHOOL VIOLENCE, AND THOSE WHICH AFFECT KIDS ARE ONES WE
NEED TO DEAL WITH BY NOT EVER DISMISSING A COMMENT ABOUT
FOLLOWING THROUGH ON ANY CONCERNS THAT STUDENTS MAY
HAVE ABOUT SOMEONE ELSE PICKING ON THEM, WAYS WE CAN,
THROUGH NATURAL HELPERS, PEER MEDIATORS, WE HAVE A
WONDERFUL PROGRAM IN OUR ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND MIDDLE
SCHOOLS, WHICH IS A MUTUAL RESPECT BUILDING PROGRAM. 
THROUGH THOSE THINGS AND THROUGH OUR MODELING AND
THROUGH OUR CONSTANT REMINDING TO KIDS THAT WE'RE THERE
FOR THEM, THAT WE HAVE, CERTAINLY, WAYS TO PROTECT THEIR
ANONYMITY, WE DO, DESPITE THE INFORMATION PORTRAYED BY
STUDENTS SAYING THEY DO NOT WISH TO COME FORWARD, MANY
KIDS WILL.  IN FACT, I WAS RECENTLY AT A CONCLUSION OF A
BOMB THREAT WHERE WE WERE -- EVEN BEFORE WE WERE BACK IN
SCHOOL A KID STEPPED FORWARD TO SAY I KNOW WHO DID THIS. 
SO, I THINK THERE ARE POSITIVE THINGS BEING PORTRAYED BY
KIDS IN THEIR WILLINGNESS TO COME FORWARD.  IT'S GOING TO BE
UP TO US TO BREAK DOWN THE DEADLY CODE OF SILENCE, WE
CALL IT, TO SAY, AND TO HAVE KIDS FEEL THAT IT IS NOW OK TO
COME TO US WITH THESE ISSUES.  

HUFFMAN:
DR. FOGARTY, THE BULLYING AND HARASSMENT, IS IT THAT BIG AN
ISSUE FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE?  

FOGARTY:
YES, IT IS AMAZING, SCHOOL PSYCHOLOGISTS,  IN WORKING WITH
KIDS HOW THEY'RE COMING TO US AND TALKING ABOUT THESE
THINGS.  THEY'RE COMING AND SAYING I DON'T KNOW IF I SHOULD
TELL YOU THIS, BUT I'M HEARING SOMEONE IS SUICIDAL OR
SOMEONE IS BEING THREATENED AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. 
AND SO, IF WE HAVE THE KIDS ORGANIZED WITH DIFFERENT KINDS
OF PROGRAMMING WHERE THEY ARE CONNECTED WITH THE
ADULTS AROUND THEM AND THEY KNOW HOW TO MAKE THAT
KIND OF NETWORK.  THEN THEY'VE GOT A BETTER CHANCE OF
COMING IN.  BECAUSE, OFTENTIMES, WHAT WE'LL SEE IF WE DON'T
HAVE THAT IS A CHILD SITTING BY THEMSELVES TRYING TO GET
SOME HELP AND THEY'RE NOT SURE WHO TO GO TO OR WHAT
CONFIDENTIALITY ISSUES THEY SHOULD BREAK--  SOMEBODY IS
SUICIDAL; SHOULD I TELL OR KEEP IT TO MYSELF BECAUSE IT'S MY
FRIEND?  THEY ARE A LITTLE LEERY OF THAT, BUT THERE IS A LOT
OF NETWORKING THAT COULD BE DONE TO GET THESE KIDS
CONNECTED TO THE ADULTS AROUND THEM.  

HUFFMAN:
WITH THE CHANGING POPULATION IN THE SCHOOLS RIGHT NOW,
DOES IT CONTRIBUTE TO THE PROBLEM OR HAVE IN I EFFECT?  

REYNOLDS:
THE CHANGING POPULATION?  

HUFFMAN:
OF THE STUDENT POPULATION COMING INTO THE SCHOOLS.  

REYNOLDS:
RELATING TO THE INCOMING FRESHMEN?  IT IS AN EDUCATIONAL
PROCESS AND CERTAINLY AS THEY ENTER HIGH SCHOOL THEY
BEGIN TO LEARN MORE OF THE WAYS OF THE HIGH SCHOOL
COMPARED TO WHERE THEY'RE COMING FROM.  HOWEVER, I WILL
SAY THERE IS NETWORKING DONE IN THE MIDDLE SCHOOLS AND IN
THE GRADE SCHOOLS.  I KNOW ONE OF THE SCHOOLS HAD A VERY
STRONG PROGRAM WHERE THEY FOCUSED ON BULLYING AND
HARASSMENT AND HAD A WELL KNOWN SPEAKER COME IN FOR AN
EVENING SESSION WITH PARENTS AND STUDENTS, ET CETERA.  SO
THOSE THINGS WE NEED TO, CERTAINLY NOT WAIT UNTIL THEY GET
TO THE HIGH SCHOOL TO BEGIN TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT THESE
ISSUES.  THEY NEED TO BY THE TIME THEY GET TO US UNDERSTAND
THAT THERE IS A NETWORK THERE.  THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING
TO DO THROUGHOUT THE DISTRICT.  

HUFFMAN:
DOUG REYNOLDS, SAFE SCHOOL COORDINATOR FROM BELOIT, AND
DR. FOGARTY, SCHOOL PSYCHOLOGIST.  THANKS FOR JOINING US,
GENTLEMEN.  

ANNOUNCER:
THAT'S TONIGHT'S HOUSE BAND, THE "MOON GYPSIES." WE'LL HEAR
MORE FROM THEM THROUGHOUT THE SHOW.  

STILL TO COME ON "WEEKEND," A UW LAW PROFESSOR EXPLAINS
HOW THIS WEEK'S MICROSOFT DECISION WILL AFFECT THE VIEW
THROUGH YOUR WINDOWS.  AND LATER, PUBLIC RADIO'S STEVE
PAULSON SHARES SOME SUMMERTIME FAMILY READING, ALL
COMING UP ON TONIGHT'S "WEEKEND." 




LOEW:
THERE'S A PARTY GOING ON, ACTUALLY TWO PARTIES THIS
WEEKEND, IN MILWAUKEE AND IN GREEN BAY.  THEY ARE THE
ANNUAL STATE POLITICAL PARTY CONVENTIONS HOSTED BY
WISCONSIN'S DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS.  THE CONVENTIONS
ARE A GOOD WAY FOR CANDIDATES TO INTRODUCE THEMSELVES
AND THEIR POSITIONS, FOR OLD ACQUAINTANCES TO BE RENEWED. 
AND, YES, AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A COUPLE OF BRATS AND A LITTLE
BEER.  WE'LL CHECK IN ON BOTH CONVENTION CITIES AND WE'LL
START IN MILWAUKEE, WHERE SENATOR ALBERTA DARLING JOINS
US.  HOW ARE THINGS GOING THERE IN MILWAUKEE?  

SEN. ALBERTA DARLING:
JUST GREAT.  IT SEEMS ALL ROADS FOR REPUBLICANS ARE LEADING
TO MILWAUKEE.  WE HAVE HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE AT THE HILTON
HOTEL RIGHT NOW, AS YOU SAID HAVING A GOOD TIME, RENEWING
FRIENDSHIPS, GETTING GEARED UP FOR TOMORROW.  

LOEW:
WITH SOPHISTICATED COMMUNICATIONS AND THE CHANGE IN
POLITICS OVER THE PAST 20 YEARS, THINGS JUST AREN'T WHAT
THEY USED TO BE.  WHY DO YOU NEED CONVENTIONS?  

DARLING:
TO RALLY THE TROOPS, TO CREATE A VISION, AND TO DETERMINE
THE WILL TO GET THE JOB DONE AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING
HERE IN MILWAUKEE.  ACTUALLY, A LOT OF POLITICS IS JUST GOOD
PEOPLE BUSINESS.  HAVING A SENSE OF WHERE DO WE WANT TO
GO?  WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO?  HOW DO WE DEVELOP THE
ENERGY TO GET IT DONE?  THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING TONIGHT
AND TOMORROW.  AND I THINK YOU'LL SEE GREAT RESULTS IN
NOVEMBER.  

LOEW:
WHERE IS THE SPOTLIGHT?  

DARLING:
THE SPOTLIGHT WILL BE, I THINK, A LOT ON TAKING BACK THE
STATE SENATE.  I AM BIASED I MUST ADMIT.  BUT IF YOU LOOK AT
OUR CONGRESSMEN THEY'RE IN GOOD SHAPE.  WE WANT TO TAKE
BACK THE WHITE HOUSE.  THAT WILL BE A BIG CHALLENGE.  OUR
ASSEMBLY IS IN GOOD SHAPE.  I THINK WE'LL CENTER A LOT ON
HOW DO WE GET BACK THE STATE SENATE SO WE CAN BE
PREPARED FOR THE NEXT DECADE.  

LOEW:
WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO DO IN ORDER TO TAKE BACK THE SENATE?  

DARLING:
GENERATE THE EMOTION THAT WE CAN TAKE BACK THE
MAJORITY, TO GENERATE THAT ENTHUSIASM, THE ENERGY TO LET
THEM KNOW WE HAVE GOOD CANDIDATES AND TO RALLY THE
TROOPS.  IT TAKES A LOT OF MONEY, A LOT OF ENERGY, A LOT OF
YARD SIGNS, BUT THE PEOPLE WHO COME TO THE CONVENTIONS
ARE LIKE MY GRANDMOTHER WHO IS A GRASS ROOTS WOMAN WHO
WOULD PULL OUT HER "I LIKE IKE" POSTER AND RALLY THE TROOPS
IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO GET PEOPLE OUT.  IT'S PEOPLE LIKE
THAT WHO COME TO THE CONVENTION AND GO HOME AND THEN
RALLY THE TROOPS TO GET THE JOB DONE.  

LOEW:
WHAT ABOUT THE PLATFORM?  MANY PEOPLE WOULD CONSIDER IT
FAMILIAR -- SCHOOL CHOICE, RIGHT TO LIFE, RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS
LANGUAGE.  ARE WE MISSING KEY ISSUES THAT MAYBE A CLOSER
READ OF THE PLATFORM MIGHT REVEAL?  

DARLING:
I THINK OUR CORE PROGRAM IS THE MOST ON TARGET, AND THAT
IS TO REDUCE THE TAX BURDEN OF OUR CITIZENS, TO ZERO IN ON
EDUCATION IS ONE OF OUR CRITICAL PIECES.  IF YOU LOOK AT THE
FUTURE OF WISCONSIN, WE HAVE TO KEEP UP OUR GOOD WORK IN
K-12 EDUCATION, BUT WE REALLY HAVE TO DO MORE TO PREPARE
OUR WORKFORCE FOR THE FUTURE.  WE HAVE SO MANY JOBS THAT
DON'T HAVE THE WORKERS THAT ARE PREPARED FOR THOSE JOBS. 
THAT'S ONE OF OUR BIGGEST CHALLENGES RIGHT NOW.  AND IF
YOU ALSO LOOK AT HOW WE DO BUSINESS, WE'LL BE TALKING A
LOT ABOUT TRUTH, INTEGRITY, CHARACTER, GOING BACK TO
THOSE VALUES AND PRINCIPALS THAT OUR FOUNDING FATHERS
WERE WILLING TO SACRIFICE THEIR LIVES, FAMILIES AND
LIVELIHOOD TO GET A DEMOCRACY GOING, TO BE FREE AND HAVE
OPPORTUNITIES.  

LOEW:
AS CHAIR OF THE NATIONAL REPUBLICAN PLATFORM COMMITTEE,
OF COURSE GOVERNOR THOMPSON IS SHAPING YOUR PARTY'S
NATIONAL AGENDA.  WILL THERE BE ANY DIFFERENCES BETWEEN
THE TWO DOCUMENTS?  OR COULD YOU JUST PERHAPS WAIT FOR
HIS DRAFT AND LOOK AT THAT AT THE STATE LEVEL?  

DARLING:
I THINK THE PLATFORMS WILL BE VERY SIMILAR, BUT WHAT WE'RE
TRYING TO DO, AND I THINK WHAT CONGRESSMAN RYAN AND
CONGRESSMAN GREEN DID SO WELL DURING THEIR PAST
ELECTIONS WHEN THEY WON VERY BIG AND VERY DICEY
DISTRICTS, THEY UNIFIED PEOPLE.  THEY SAID WHAT THEY WERE
FOR.  THEY BROUGHT PEOPLE ALONG.  THAT'S WHAT WE'RE REALLY
TRYING TO DO.  WE AREN'T TRYING TO GET INTO EACH INDIVIDUAL
ISSUE TO SAY, LET'S DIVIDE OURSELVES.  LET'S SEE HOW MUCH WE
CAN DISAGREE.  WE'RE WORKING TO SEE WHERE WE CAN AGREE
AND WHAT WE CAN AGREE ON, REALLY, WILL BRING THE VICTORY
IN NOVEMBER.  

LOEW:
SENATOR DARLING, IF YOU COULD JUST HANG WITH US FOR A
LITTLE WHILE, WE'LL TALK TO DEMOCRATIC DELEGATES AND THEN
BRING YOU BACK INTO THE CONVERSATION.  

WE'LL MOVE NOW TO GREEN BAY THE HOST CITY FOR STATE
DEMOCRATS THIS WEEKEND.  AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE SEEING
DEMOCRAT JERRY GREENFIELD IS TONIGHT.  WELCOME MR.
GREENFIELD.  HOW ARE THINGS GOING IN GREEN BAY?  

JERRY GREENFIELD:
I THINK THINGS ARE GOING REALLY WELL.  THE CONVENTION IS
GREAT FUN.  POLITICS IS A PARTICIPATION SPORT AND WE'VE GOT
LOTS OF PARTICIPANTS AND A LOT OF ENTHUSIASM.  

LOEW:
IN JUST A FEW HOURS, ATTORNEY GENERAL JIM DOYLE IS GOING TO
ANNOUNCE HIS INTENTIONS TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR.  WE'VE GOT A
COPY OF HIS SPEECH.  HE SAYS, "I'M NOT SAYING MAYBE OR THAT I
MIGHT RUN, MAKE NO MISTAKE.  I WILL BE A CANDIDATE FOR
GOVERNOR IN 2002." HOW DO YOU REACT TO THAT?  

GREENFIELD:
VERY HAPPILY, POSITIVELY AND ENTHUSIASTICALLY.  I THINK
THAT ATTORNEY GENERAL DOYLE HAS REALLY DONE A FABULOUS
JOB IN HIS PRESENT OFFICE.  BUT, MORE, HE ARTICULATES A LOT OF
THE SIGNIFICANT ISSUES THAT I THINK HAVE GOTTEN LOST IN THE
ENDLESS YEARS OF THE THOMPSON ADMINISTRATION AND
PARTICULARLY, THINGS RELATED TO THE ENVIRONMENT AND
QUESTIONS RELATED TO HEALTH CARE, AND ESPECIALLY TO
EDUCATION, WHERE WE'VE SEEN A CONTINUOUS DE-FUNDING OF
THE STATE UNIVERSITY SYSTEM.  AND ATTORNEY GENERAL DOYLE
MENTIONED TO US THAT IF HE WERE GOVERNOR, AND I SHOULD
SAY WHEN HE'S GOVERNOR, THE WAR ON TEACHERS WILL END AND
THE WAR ON PUBLIC EDUCATION WILL END.  I THINK WE ALL WANT
TO LOOK FORWARD TO THAT AND HELP MAKE IT HAPPEN.  

LOEW:
WELL, THIS IS A FAIRLY EARLY ANNOUNCEMENT, THOUGH.  WILL
THIS DISCOURAGE OTHER CANDIDATES?  OF COURSE,
CONGRESSMAN TOM BARRETT HAS BEEN MENTIONED, MILWAUKEE
MAYOR NORQUIST HAS BEEN MENTIONED.  WILL THIS DISCOURAGE
OTHER CANDIDATES FROM GETTING INTO A GUBERNATORIAL
RACE?  

GREENFIELD:
WELL, I THINK YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO FIGURE A CALCULATION ON
THE PART OF ANY CANDIDATE, THEY'LL CERTAINLY ASSESS HOW
STRONG THEY THINK JIM DOYLE IS AND HOW STRONG THEY MIGHT
BE.  

LOEW:
BUT IS THAT WHERE THE SPOTLIGHT WILL BE, ON THE
GUBERNATORIAL CONTEST AT THIS CONVENTION?  

GREENFIELD:
I THINK NOT.  OUR MAJOR CONCERN, CERTAINLY, IS AT THE TOP OF
THE TICKET, WHERE WE WANT TO GET AL GORE ELECTED AS
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.  AND WE GO DOWN FROM THAT,
NOT THAT THEY'RE LESS IMPORTANT, BUT CLEARLY, IN DEFERENCE
TO WHAT SENATOR DARLING SAID, WE EXPECT TO KEEP AND
POSSIBLY EXPAND THE MAJORITY IN THE STATE SENATE.  

LOEW:
WHAT ABOUT THE STATE ASSEMBLY?  WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO DO
IN ORDER TO REGAIN A MAJORITY IN THE STATE ASSEMBLY?  

GREENFIELD:
YOU HAVE TO WIN THE RACES THAT YOU CAN WIN, CLEARLY.  IT IS
GOING TO BE DIFFICULT, BUT WE BELIEVE THAT IT CERTAINLY IS
POSSIBLE, ESPECIALLY IN A PRESIDENTIAL YEAR, AND ESPECIALLY
BECAUSE WE BELIEVE WE HAVE THE ISSUES RIGHT, AS FAR AS THE
AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED AND AS FAR AS THE PEOPLE IN
WISCONSIN ARE CONCERNED.  

LOEW:
WOULD -- WHAT DO YOU, AS A DELEGATE, TAKE AWAY FROM THIS
CONVENTION?  

GREENFIELD:
WELL, I AM A PARTY CHAIR AND ONE OF THE NICE THINGS FOR ME
COMING TO A CONVENTION IS TO MEET WITH OTHER PARTY CHAIRS
FROM ACROSS THE STATE AND TALK ABOUT HOW THINGS ARE
GOING AND GET NEW IDEAS.  AND THEN IT'S SEEING THE
CANDIDATES, BECAUSE I TEND TO SEE A LOT MORE OF THE PEOPLE
WHO ARE IN THE FIRST CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT OR RUNNING IN
RACINE OR KENOSHA, ROCK COUNTY, AND I TEND NOT TO MEET
TOO MANY OF THE PEOPLE FROM OTHER AREAS OF THE STATE
UNLESS IT'S AN OCCASION LIKE THIS AT A CONVENTION.  AND THEN
I THINK THE MOST YOU TAKE AWAY IS THIS TREMENDOUS RESPECT
FOR ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO WORK IN POLITICS.  AS YOU KNOW,
WE HAVE A PROBLEM-- NOT DEMOCRATS, NOT REPUBLICANS-- BUT
AMERICANS, WITH NOT PARTICIPATING AS FULLY AS WE SHOULD,
TURNING OUT THE VOTE AND THE LIKE.  AND THERE'S JUST
SOMETHING VERY GOOD ABOUT SEEING SO MANY PEOPLE WHO DO
UNDERSTAND THAT POLITICS REALLY COUNTS AND THAT IT'S A
POSITIVE THING, NOT A NEGATIVE THING AS SOME PEOPLE WOULD
HAVE IT.  

LOEW:
OK.  WELL, AT THIS POINT, LET'S BRING SENATOR DARLING BACK
INTO THE CONVERSATION.  SENATOR DARLING, AGAIN IS JOINING
US FROM MILWAUKEE.  
MR.  GREENFIELD TALKED ABOUT THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY
BEING GETTING AL GORE ELECTED.  WHAT ROLE DOES A
REPUBLICAN STATE CONVENTION PLAY IN THE NATIONAL
POLITICAL PICTURE?  

DARLING:
WISCONSIN IS GOING TO BE A BIG PLAYER FOR GEORGE W. BUSH
FOR PRESIDENT.  YOU'LL SEE A LOT MORE ACTION HERE.  YOU'LL
SEE MORE MONEY.  YOU'LL SEE MORE EMPHASIS.  BUT YOU'LL SEE A
LOT OF EXCITEMENT ABOUT THE MESSAGE THAT GEORGE W. BUSH
BRINGS TO THE PLATFORM AS A COMPASSIONATE CONSERVATIVE. 
HE HAS BEEN SUCH A GREAT ROLE MODEL IN TEXAS, WE'RE HOPING
THAT HE'LL SPEND A LOT OF TIME IN WISCONSIN TO SHARE WITH US
HOW HE HAS DONE SO MANY POSITIVE THINGS THAT WE WANT TO
DO ALL OVER THE COUNTRY.  AND WE'RE GOING TO GENERATE
THAT KIND OF ENERGY THAT I MENTIONED AGAIN, TO GET BEHIND,
IN THE GRASS ROOTS, REV UP NEIGHBORHOODS, REV UP THOSE
INDIVIDUAL VOTERS AND GET THEM OUT TO VOTE FOR GEORGE W.
BUSH IN THE FALL.  

LOEW:
WHAT DOES AL GORE HAVE TO DO HERE, MR. GREENFIELD, TO WIN
WISCONSIN?  

GREENFIELD:
WELL, I THINK HE SIMPLY HAS TO ARTICULATE HIS MESSAGE AND
POINT TO THE REAL DIFFERENCES SEPARATING HIM AND
GOVERNOR BUSH AND I THINK THESE ARE ISSUES THAT ARE
REALLY IMPORTANT HERE IN WISCONSIN, ENVIRONMENTAL
CONCERNS CERTAINLY BEING ONE, QUESTIONS RELATED TO
EDUCATION, ESPECIALLY IN TERMS OF THE NEED TO REDUCE CLASS
SIZE.  I THINK THAT THESE ARE ISSUES THAT ARE REALLY CLOSE TO
THE HEART OF A LOT OF PEOPLE HERE.  AND THEN, OF COURSE, WE
KNOW ARTICULATING SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE ISSUES
AND GETTING BEYOND THIS SURFACE RHETORIC DEALING WITH
LOCK BOXES OR OTHER THINGS, CHANCY PRIVATIZATION SCHEMES,
AND COMING TO THE HEART OF ASSURING THE FUTURE OF
AMERICAN CITIZENS.  

LOEW:
SENATOR DARLING, MR. GREENFIELD MENTIONED ENVIRONMENT,
EDUCATION, SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE AS SOME OF THE
ISSUES THAT ARE MOST SALIENT TO WISCONSIN VOTERS.  WOULD
YOU AGREE?  

DARLING:
ABSOLUTELY.  AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE SOME REALLY CLEAR
DECISIONS THIS FALL ABOUT WHO WE WANT TO REPRESENT US.  AS
MENTIONED, THE ISSUES ARE ON TOP OF THE AGENDA, ARE ON
YOUR AGENDA AND OURS.  THE REAL KEY IS HOW ARE YOU GOING
TO GET TO THE GOAL?  I THINK WHAT YOU'LL SEE THE
REPUBLICANS TALKING ABOUT IS HAVING THE GOAL THERE FOR
EVERYBODY AND HAVING INTEGRITY TO GET THERE.  WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT EDUCATION.  WE'RE ALL CHILDREN -- WHERE ALL
CHILDREN GET THE BEST EDUCATION, NOT JUST A FEW.  WE TALK
ABOUT BREAKING DOWN THE RULES AND REGS--  BUREAUCRACY,
BUILDING UP THE POWER OF INDIVIDUALS TO CREATE THEIR OWN
DESTINY, INSTEAD OF HAVING GOVERNMENT TELL THEM SO MUCH
OF WHAT THEY NEED TO DO.  THERE WILL BE VERY CLEAR
DIFFERENCES.  I THINK THE MAIN DIFFERENCES WILL BE WHO ARE
YOU GOING TO TRUST?  WHO IS MOST LIKE YOU?  WHO REPRESENTS
YOUR FAMILY?  AND I THINK PEOPLE WILL HAVE VERY CLEAR
DECISIONS IF THEY WANT TO STICK WITH THE CLINTON-GORE
YEARS, OR DO YOU WANT TO MOVE ON TO A NEW ERA OF HONESTY,
INTEGRITY AND COMMITMENT?  

LOEW:
EARLIER, SENATOR DARLING TALKED ABOUT THE MOMENTUM
THAT A STATE CONVENTION GIVES PARTY MEMBERS.  MR.
GREENFIELD, HOW DOES MOMENTUM -- HOW DOES THIS
CONVENTION BUILD MOMENTUM FOR THE DEMOCRATS?  

GREENFIELD:
WELL, WE SEE ONE ANOTHER AND WE HEAR OUR VARIOUS
CANDIDATES AND WE HEAR AND HAVE WONDERFUL SPEAKERS
WHO ARE GOING TO BE WITH US TODAY AND TOMORROW.  IN FACT,
I'M SORRY I'M MISSING AT LEAST A FEW OF THEM BEING HERE.  AND


LOEW:
SORRY ABOUT THAT.  

GREENFIELD:
WELL, IT'S WORTH IT.  BUT I THINK THAT SORT OF THING REALLY
DOES SEND YOU OUT ALL CHARGED UP AND ENTHUSIASTIC.  THE
OTHER THING IS THAT YOU GET A CLEARER SENSE OF WHAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF DIFFERENCES.  AND I AM STRUCK BY
SAYING IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT RECORDS, I'D ADVISE EVERYONE
TO LOOK AT THE RECORDS IN TEXAS.  

LOEW:
WE'LL HAVE TO CONTINUE THIS CONVERSATION AT A LATER DATE. 
WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF SATELLITE TIME, ACTUALLY.  SENATOR
DARLING, JERRY GREENFIELD, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.  

BOTH:
THANK YOU.  

ANNOUNCER:
ONCE AGAIN, THE "MOON GYPSIES" ARE HERE FOR OUR LISTENING
PLEASURE TONIGHT.  DON'T FORGET, YOU CAN ALWAYS GET MORE
INFORMATION ON THE TOPICS YOU SEE ON "WEEKEND" BY LOGGING
ONTO THE "WEEKEND" WEB SITE.  YOU'LL FIND US AT
WWW.WPT.ORG/WEEKEND 

COMING UP NEXT, ON "WEEKEND," SUMMER'S HERE AND WE'VE GOT
SOME BOOK PICKS THAT CHILDREN AND THEIR PARENTS CAN
ENJOY.  THE BEST PART IS, THERE WILL BE NO BOOK REPORT
REQUIRED.  ALSO, AFTER TANTALIZING YOU WITH MERE MUSICAL
SNIPPETS LIKE THIS OF THE "MOON GYPSIES" SOUND, WE'LL BRING
YOU A FULL PERFORMANCE FROM THIS MADISON-BASED BAND.  IT'S
ALL COMING UP ON "WEEKEND." 





HUFFMAN:
THE "MOON GYPSIES."  SUMMER IS HERE AND THAT MEANS THE
KIDS ARE OUT OF SCHOOL.  ON THOSE GLOOMY DAYS WHEN THE
YOUNG ONES ARE COOPED UP INDOORS AND GETTING BORED, WHY
NOT SUGGEST SOME SUMMER READING?  HERE WITH SOME FUN
BOOK PICKS THAT BOTH CHILDREN AND THEIR PARENTS CAN
ENJOY, IS  THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF WISCONSIN PUBLIC RADIO
TO THE BEST OF OUR KNOWLEDGE AND "WEEKEND'S" OWN BOOK
WORM STEVE PAULSON.  WELCOME TO THE SHOW TONIGHT.  

STEVE PAULSON:
MY PLEASURE.  

HUFFMAN:
LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR FIRST PICK, "BUD, NOT BUDDY" BY
CHRISTOPHER PAUL CURTIS.  AN UNUSUAL BOOK.  

PAULSON:
AN UNUSUAL BOOK, IT ACTUALLY WON TWO OF THE TOP
CHILDREN'S BOOK AWARDS THIS YEAR, THE NEWBERRY MEDAL
AND THE CORETTA SCOTT KING AWARD.  IT'S SET IN THE
DEPRESSION AND IS ABOUT A YOUNG BLACK 10-YEAR-OLD WHO
WAS ORPHANED AND HAD A SERIES OF BAD FOSTER HOMES AND
ENDS UP RUNNING AWAY.  HE REALLY SURVIVES ON HIS WITS.  AND
IT SOUNDS KIND OF GRIM BUT IT REALLY ISN'T.  IT'S FUN AND IT'S A
VERY ENGAGING  CHARACTER.  IT ALSO GIVES A PORTRAIT OF
AMERICA AT THAT TIME IN THE 1930'S.  

HUFFMAN:
THE MAIN CHARACTER IS A VERY WISE YOUNG BOY.  HE'S GOT HIS
OWN LITTLE SPECIAL RULES.  ONE OF MY FAVORITES IS, IF YOU
TELL A LIE, MAKE IT SIMPLE SO YOU DON'T FORGET IT.  I MEAN,
THAT SPEAKS BOTH TO ADULTS AND KIDS.  

PAULSON:
RIGHT.  AND IT'S REALLY TRUE IT WITH ALL OF THE BOOKS I'VE
PICKED.  THEY NOT ONLY APPEAL TO KIDS BUT ALSO ADULTS. 
THERE IS AN AMAZING STORY ABOUT THE PERSON WHO WROTE
THIS, CHRISTOPHER PAUL CURTIS.  HE WORKED ON AN ASSEMBLY
LINE FOR 13 YEARS HANGING DOORS.  AND HE WORKED ON A DEAL
WITH HIS BUDDY, WHO HE WAS HANGING DOORS WITH AND THEY
DECIDED THAT INSTEAD OF HANGING EACH ONE'S THE OTHER
DOOR THEY WOULD TRADE-OFF AND ONE WOULD HANG DOORS
FOR A HALF HOUR AND THE OTHER FOR A HALF HOUR.  AND WHEN
HE WAS ON THE DOWN PERIODS HE STARTED TO WRITE.  HE DID
THIS FOR YEARS.  HE DIDN'T WRITE NOVELS AT THAT TIME, BUT
THAT'S HOW HE LEARNED TO WRITE.  AND EVENTUALLY HE QUIT
HIS JOB AND STARTED TO WRITE CHILDREN'S BOOKS.  

HUFFMAN:
DO AUTHORS LIKE HIM STILL HAVE A BIT OF THE CHILD IN
THEMSELVES?  

PAULSON:
I THINK ALL OF THESE PEOPLE DO.  IF YOU TALK WITH CHILDREN'S
AUTHORS, THEY'LL SAY THAT WHAT THEY REALLY ARE DOING IS
REMEMBERING WHAT IT WAS LIKE FOR THEM AS KIDS AND THAT
THOSE ARE THE EXPERIENCES THEY COME UP WITH.  

HUFFMAN:
WE CAN TALK GENERALLY ABOUT THE AGE RANGES.  IT'S MAYBE 10
YEARS OLD?  

PAULSON:
MAYBE SLIGHTLY OLDER.  I REALLY DO THINK THAT ADULTS
WOULD ENJOY THIS BOOK AND THE OTHER BOOKS THAT I'LL TALK
ABOUT.  ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT CHILDREN'S BOOKS THESE
DAYS, IS IT'S REALLY KIND OF A GOLDEN AGE IN CHILDREN'S
LITERATURE.  THERE ARE SO MANY INTERESTING BOOKS OUT
RIGHT NOW, AND THEY'RE NOT SIMPLE.  I MEAN, THESE ARE
STORIES THAT REALLY GET INTO THE COMPLEXITY OF HUMAN
EMOTIONS, BUT ARE ALSO DONE IN SUCH A WAY THAT KIDS CAN
REALLY RESPOND TO THEM.  

HUFFMAN:
WHICH LEADS US WELL INTO YOUR NEXT BOOK, "SKELLIG" BY
DAVID ALMOND.  A LITTLE BIT DARKER.  

PAULSON:
YES.  

HUFFMAN:
BUT STILL A GOOD BOOK FOR KIDS.  

PAULSON:
I THINK A GREAT BOOK FOR KIDS.  DAVID ALMOND IS AN ENGLISH
WRITER.  AND IT'S GOT THIS MAGICAL STORY.  IT'S VERY LYRICAL
STORY ABOUT THIS FAMILY THAT MOVES INTO A NEW HOUSE, AND
THERE IS A BOY THERE WHO IS TRYING TO FIND HIS WAY, AND HE
SEES THIS GARAGE KIND OF CRUMBLING.  OF COURSE HE HAS TO GO
INTO IT AND SEE WHAT'S IN THERE.  AND HIS FATHER IS SAYING,
DON'T GO IN THERE.  IT COULD FALL DOWN ON YOU.  SO HE GOES IN
AND HE SEES THIS WEIRD CREATURE IN THE CORNER.  HE'S NOT
SURE WHAT IT IS-- A GIANT BIRD COVERED WITH FILTH.  AND HE
GETS A LITTLE CLOSER AND HE REALIZES, NO, IT KIND OF LOOKS
LIKE A PERSON.  AND IT'S VERY CANTANKEROUS, BUT HE
BEFRIENDS THIS CREATURE AND ENDS UP FEEDING IT AND IT TURNS
OUT THE CREATURE HAS WINGS ON ITS BACK AND IS KIND OF AN
ANGEL.  AND THERE ARE WONDERFUL THINGS THAT HAPPEN, THEN,
AS THIS BOY GETS TO KNOW THIS ANGEL NAMED "SKELLIG".  

HUFFMAN:
AGAIN, AN AGE RANGE OF A 9-YEAR-OLD OR 10-YEAR-OLD?  

PAULSON:
MAYBE SLIGHTLY OLDER.  I WOULD SAY KIND OF THE THEME OF
THE STORY IS IN A WAY YOU HAVE TO GO INTO THE DARKNESS TO
FIND STRENGTH.  I MEAN, IF YOU REALLY WANT TO GROW YOU
HAVE TO GO INTO SOME STUFF THAT'S MAYBE A LITTLE
UNCOMFORTABLE AT FIRST.  

HUFFMAN:
THE LAST BOOK WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT RIGHT NOW IS "TIBET:
THROUGH THE RED BOX" BY PETER SIS.  AND PART OF WHAT'S VERY
STRONG ABOUT THIS BOOK IS THE ARTWORK.  THERE IS STUNNING
ARTWORK HERE.  

PAULSON:
THE ILLUSTRATIONS ARE INCREDIBLE.  HE IS ONE OF THE TOP
ILLUSTRATORS OF CHILDREN'S BOOKS THESE DAYS.  AND IT'S
PARTLY AN AUTO BIOGRAPHY.  HE GREW UP IN A COMMUNIST
COUNTRY.  AND HIS FATHER WAS A FILM MAKER SENT TO CHINA AT
ONE POINT.  THIS IS IN THE MID 1950'S.  HE WENT TO TEACH THE
CHINESE THE ART OF FILM MAKING.  HE ENDED UP HAVING ALL OF
THESE INCREDIBLE INCOMPLETE ADVENTURES.  WENT TO TIBET
AND WAS FILMING A HIGHWAY HIGH IN THE HIMALAYAS THAT
COLLAPSED.  LOTS OF PEOPLE WERE KILLED.  HE ENDED UP
WANDERING ACROSS TIBET AND HAD THESE AMAZING STORIES
THAT HE BROUGHT BACK TO TELL HIS YOUNG SON PETER, ABOUT
FISH WITH HUMAN FACES, YETI WANDERING THROUGH THE
MOUNTAINS, A VALLEY OF GIANTS.   AND IT'S REALLY TOLD FROM
THE PERSPECTIVE OF WHAT'S A 5-YEAR-OLD SUPPOSED TO MAKE OF
THESE INCREDIBLE STORIES?  

HUFFMAN:
STEVE, LET'S GO THROUGH THE LIST ONE MORE TIME.  
     1."BUD, NOT BUDDY" BY CHRISTOPHER PAUL CURTIS 
     2. "SKELLIG" BY DAVID ALMOND
     3. "TIBET: THROUGH THE RED BOX" BY PETER SIS
ALL VERY GOOD BOOKS FOR KIDS.  SORT OF THE 10-YEAR-OLD
RANGE.  STEVE, APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.  THANKS VERY MUCH.  

PAULSON:
THANK YOU.  

HUFFMAN:
PATTY?  




LOEW:
THANKS.  BUT BEFORE YOU SIT DOWN WITH THOSE BOOKS YOU
MIGHT WANT TO POP IN A CD FROM OUR NEXT GUESTS THE "MOON
GYPSIES."  WE'VE BEEN HEARING BITS AND PIECES FROM THE
GROUP DURING THE HOUR, BUT WE WANT TO TURN THEM LOOSE
NOW FOR THE WHOLE TUNE.  HERE THEY ARE PLAYING A SONG
FROM THEIR NEW C.D.  AND THE SONG IS CALLED "OTHER PEOPLE
SAY." HERE ARE THE "MOON GYPSIES." 

I CAN'T QUITE SAY
I DON'T QUITE KNOW
THAT'S ALWAYS HOW THE STORY GOES
OTHER PEOPLE SAY
THAT THEY SEE THE LIGHT
THEY SAY I'M WRONG, MAYBE THEY'RE RIGHT

WHY MUST WE FEEL
THE NEED TO BE COMPETITIVE
IT'S YOU OR ME
LET'S JUST LET IT SLIDE
AND BE ON OUR WAY
WE'VE MORE IMPORTANT GAMES TO PLAY

HOLY WARS AND FOOTBALL SCORES
SEEM DISTANT TO ME
I SEE THEM ON THE EVENING NEWS
WHAT GIVES US THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE
JAMMIN' ON THIS PIECE OF WOOD NIGHT AFTER NIGHT
A THOUSAND NOTES FALL AT MY FEET
SOME OF THEM SAD
SOME OF THEM SWEET
THEY SAY MAYBE I'LL KNOW
WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT SOME DAY

WHEN THE TIME HAS COME
I WILL BE THE ONE
WHEN THE TIME HAS COME
I WILL BE THE ONE
TO FIGURE IT OUT FOR MYSELF

BUT I CAN'T QUITE SAY
I DON'T QUITE KNOW
THAT'S ALWAYS HOW THE STORY GOES
OTHER PEOPLE SAY
THAT THEY SEE THE LIGHT
SAY I'M WRONG, MAYBE I'M RIGHT
SAY I'M WRONG, MAYBE I'M RIGHT
SAY THAT I'M WRONG, MAYBE I'M RIGHT
SAY THAT I'M WRONG, MAYBE I'M RIGHT

OTHER PEOPLE SAY
OTHER PEOPLE SAY
MAYBE I'M WRONG MAYBE I'M RIGHT
MAYBE I'M WRONG MAYBE I'M RIGHT
SAY THAT I'M WRONG MAYBE I'M RIGHT...

ANNOUNCER:
YOU CAN FIND OUT MORE ABOUT THE "MOON GYPSIES" AND THE
"WEEKEND" BOOK PICKS BY LOGGING ONTO THE "WEEKEND" WEB
SITE.  ONCE AGAIN, IT'S WWW.WPT.ORG/WEEKEND.  

NEXT UP TONIGHT ON "WEEKEND," WE'LL TALK WITH AN ANTI-
TRUST EXPERT ABOUT THIS WEEK'S MICROSOFT BREAKUP.  WHAT
WILL IT MEAN TO CONSUMERS AND COMPETING SOFTWARE
COMPANIES?  FIND OUT NEXT ON "WEEKEND." 




HUFFMAN:
BREAKING UP IS SO HARD TO DO.  ON WEDNESDAY, A FEDERAL
JUDGE ORDERED MICROSOFT CORPORATION TO SPLIT INTO TWO
SEPARATE COMPANIES.  THE WINDOWS SYSTEM WILL SPIN-OFF INTO
ONE COMPANY, WHILE MICROSOFT'S OTHER SOFTWARE SYSTEMS,
INCLUDING THE INTERNET BROWSER, WILL BE MANAGED BY A
SECOND COMPANY.  THIS IS THE END RESULT OF A TWO-YEAR
COURT BATTLE STEMMING FROM THE U.S. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S
ALLEGATIONS THAT MICROSOFT IS A MONOPOLY.  

MICROSOFT FOUNDER BILL GATES PLANS TO APPEAL THIS
DECISION, BUT IF THE BREAKUP HAPPENS WHAT WILL IT MEAN FOR
CONSUMERS AND WHAT COULD THIS MEAN TO WISCONSIN'S OTHER
SOFTWARE COMPANIES?  HERE TO BREAK IT ALL DOWN FOR US IS
UW MADISON LAW PROFESSOR AND ANTITRUST EXPERT PETER
CARSTENSEN.  PETER, THE CONSUMER ISSUE.  DOES IT MATTER TO
THE AVERAGE PERSON THAT IT LOOKS LIKE THIS MAY HAPPEN?  

PETER CARSTENSEN:
I THINK IT'S HOPEFUL FOR THE CONSUMER.  

HUFFMAN:
WHY?  

CARSTENSEN:
THE JUDGE ESTIMATED THAT MICROSOFT WAS OVER CHARGING
EVERYONE ABOUT $20 OR MORE FOR EACH OF THEIR WINDOWS
APPLICATIONS THAT THEY BOUGHT.  MORE IMPORTANTLY, MUCH
MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT WILL OPEN THE DOOR TO MUCH MORE
COMPETITIVE, ALTERNATIVES IN THE SOFTWARE DEPARTMENT SO
THAT YOU CAN HAVE AN OPERATING SYSTEM OF YOUR CHOICE,
YOUR CHOICE OF BROWSER, YOUR CHOICE OF WORD PROCESSOR
AND YOUR COMPUTER WON'T CRASH DOWN ABOUT YOUR EARS IF
YOU DON'T CHOOSE WHATEVER BILL GATES CHOSE FOR YOU.  

HUFFMAN:
EARLIER THIS WEEK, YOU WERE QUOTED AS SAYING YOU FAVORED
A DISMEMBERMENT OF MICROSOFT AS OPPOSED TO A BREAK
APART.  DO YOU STILL FEEL THAT WAY?  

CARSTENSEN:
I WOULD HAVE PREFERRED TO SEE A MORE DRAMATIC BREAKUP OF
THE COMPANY, BREAKING IT IN TWO IS A BET THAT THERE IS
ENOUGH DYNAMICS IN SOFTWARE DESIGN THAT EACH OF THESE
COMPANIES WILL HAVE AN ENORMOUS INCENTIVE TO LOOK TO
EITHER SUPPORT ALTERNATIVE OPERATING SYSTEMS OR
ALTERNATIVE APPLICATIONS.  

IF YOU HAD THREE OR FOUR COMPANIES OPERATING IN THIS FIELD,
THE CHANCES THAT WE WOULD GET THAT KIND OF OPEN ACCESS
SYSTEM WHERE EVERYBODY COULD DESIGN APPROPRIATE
SOFTWARE AND HAVE IT ACCESSIBLE TO CONSUMERS WOULD BE
MUCH GREATER.  

HUFFMAN:
THERE'S BEEN A LOT WRITTEN ABOUT THE ARROGANCE OF
MICROSOFT, THE ARROGANCE OF THE ATTORNEYS, THE
ARROGANCE OF THEIR CASE.  IN RETROSPECT, DID THEY MAKE A
MISTAKE GOING INTO COURT WITH THAT ATTITUDE?  

CARSTENSEN:
WELL, THE LAWYERS ARE PRETTY MUCH STUCK WITH THEIR
CLIENT.  LET'S NOT BLAME THE LAWYERS ON THIS ONE.  THEY HAD
AN IMMENSELY SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMAN IN BILL GATES AND IN
MICROSOFT.  AND THE KIND OF HUBRIS THAT COMES WITH THAT
MADE IT VERY HARD FOR HIM TO LISTEN TO WHAT THE LAWYERS
WERE TELLING HIM, TO BE PREPARED TO MAKE THE KINDS OF
CONCESSIONS.  IN FACT, THEY HAVEN'T ADMITTED EVEN TODAY
THAT THEY'VE DONE ANYTHING WRONG.  BUT THAT'S MUCH MORE
A MICROSOFT PSYCHOLOGY.  IT GOES BACK TO AMERICAN
TOBACCO, STANDARD OIL.  THIS IS THE WAY THESE KINDS OF
MONOPOLY COMPANIES TALK.  

HUFFMAN:
IS IT TOO LATE FOR MICROSOFT TO SEND UP ANY SORT OF AN
APOLOGY, A TRIAL BALLOON OR WHATEVER?  

CARSTENSEN:
I DON'T THINK THEY COULD DO THAT AT THIS POINT.  THEY'VE DUG
THEIR GRAVE AT THE TRIAL COURT LEVEL.  THEIR ONE HOPE IS
THAT ON APPEAL THEY WILL FIND SOME FLAWS IN WHAT JUDGE
JACKSON DID THAT WILL CAUSE THE CASE TO BE SENT BACK.  AND
IF THERE IS A CHANGE OF ADMINISTRATION IN THAT CONTEXT, IT IS
POSSIBLE THEY COULD NEGOTIATE.  

HUFFMAN:
WITH THIS NEWS, WHY IS THEIR STOCK STAYING RELATIVELY
STABLE?  

CARSTENSEN:
THE EXPERIENCE WITH MOST MONOPOLIES IS THAT THEY'RE
ACTUALLY WORTH MORE IN COMPETITIVE MARKETS.  IT WAS THE
EXPERIENCE WITH AT&T; AND STANDARD OIL, AND WITH MANY,
BECAUSE THE GREATEST PROFIT A MONOPOLIST RECEIVES IS THE
QUIET LIFE.  IN A COMPETITIVE MARKET, PEOPLE ARE OUT THERE
COMPETING AND THAT TURNS OUT TO BE MORE VALUABLE FOR
INVESTORS AND CONSUMERS.  

HUFFMAN:
HAS MICROSOFT GOTTEN IT YET?  

CARSTENSEN:
I DON'T THINK THEY'VE GOTTEN IT YET.  I THINK THEY'LL HAVE TO
BE HIT OVER THE HEAD A FEW MORE TIMES IN THE COURT OF
APPEALS OR THE SUPREME COURT BEFORE THEY REALLY
UNDERSTAND THAT THEY'VE DONE SOMETHING WRONG.  

HUFFMAN:
WHO IS THIS BETTER NEWS FOR -- THE CONSUMER OR OTHER
SOFTWARE COMPANIES?  

CARSTENSEN:
I THINK IT IS A WIN-WIN FOR BOTH.  THAT IS, TO BE A SUCCESSFUL
SOFTWARE COMPANY YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SERVE
CONSUMERS.  FOR CONSUMERS YOU'LL HAVE MANY MORE CHOICES
IF THIS DECREE IS IMPLEMENTED.  SO YOU'LL GET TO PICK AND
CHOOSE THE BEST SOFTWARE FOR YOUR COMPUTER EACH TIME
RATHER THAN BEING FORCED TO TAKE THE PACKAGE THAT
MICROSOFT HAS DESIGNED FOR YOU.  

HUFFMAN:
IN LAYMAN'S TERMS WHAT HAPPENS NEXT?  

CARSTENSEN:
NEXT, WE GO THROUGH A SERIES OF APPEALS.  IF THE DECREE IS
UPHELD, THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL IT BE IMPLEMENTED IN ITS
ENTIRETY.  THE JUDGE HAS TRIED TO ENFORCE CERTAIN
REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE IN EFFECT TODAY THAT WILL -- AS TO
HOW MICROSOFT IS TO CONDUCT ITS BUSINESS UNTIL THE
DISSOLUTION TAKES PLACE.  THAT MICROSOFT IS ALREADY
CHALLENGING.  THE COURT OF APPEALS HAS TO DECIDE WHETHER
TO STAY, THAT IS, TO HOLD BACK ON EVEN THAT ORDER, UNTIL
THE DECISIONS ARE FINAL.  IT'S GOING TO TAKE A WHILE.  

HUFFMAN:
PETER CARSTENSEN UW LAW SCHOOL, THANKS FOR YOUR TIME.  

CARSTENSEN:
THANK YOU.  

ANNOUNCER:
COMING UP STRAIGHT AWAY ON "WEEKEND," WHAT CAN BE DONE
AT THIS WEEKEND'S STATE POLITICAL CONVENTION TO MAKE
THEM NEWS WORTHY?  POLITICAL PANELISTS BILL DIXON, BILL
KRAUS AND BRANDON SCHOLZ CONVENE NEXT ON "WEEKEND." 




LOEW:
ANYONE WHO THINKS STATE POLITICAL PARTY CONVENTIONS ARE
NOTHING MORE THAN AN EXCUSE TO GOSSIP AND DRINK IS
MISTAKEN.  THERE IS EATING, TOO.  

BUT SERIOUSLY, FOLKS, THE ROLE OF THE STATE PARTY
ORGANIZATIONS HAS EVOLVED OVER THE PAST DECADE OR SO. 
STILL, SOME WOULD SAY THAT THE PARTIES HAVE BECOME LESS
RELEVANT.  WHAT WILL THE STATE PARTIES NEED TO ACCOMPLISH
THIS WEEKEND TO BUCK THAT STEREOTYPE?  AND WHAT ARE THE
ISSUES THAT SHOULD BE RAISED AT THIS YEAR'S CONVENTION, BUT
WON'T BE?  

LET'S TALK TO DELEGATES AT OUR "WEEKEND" POLITICAL
CONVENTION TONIGHT, CHAIRMAN KRAUS, CHAIRMAN DIXON AND
IN MADISON, TONIGHT, ACTUALLY IN MILWAUKEE TONIGHT,
CHAIRMAN BRANDON SCHOLZ.  YOU MAY HAVE BETTER
APPETIZERS, BUT WE HAVE MUCH BETTER MUSIC TONIGHT.  THE
"MOON GYPSIES" ARE WITH US AND WE'VE BEEN ENJOYING IT.  

WELL, MR. DIXON, YOU SAID IN THE PAST THAT POLITICAL PARTIES
ARE SOMEWHAT LESS RELEVANT THAN THEY ONCE WERE.  DO YOU
STILL FEEL THAT WAY?  

BILL DIXON:
WELL, BECAUSE OF THE PREVALENCE OF MONEY IN IT, PATTY.  BUT
WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT THESE CONVENTIONS--  AND I
REMEMBER HAVING GONE TO DOZENS OF THEM--  IS THEIR
POTENTIAL FOR RELEVANCE.  IF YOU'VE GOT A THOUSAND
DELEGATES AND ONLY LESS THAN A HUNDRED ARE ELECTED
MEMBERS OF THE LEGISLATURE AND OTHERS, THE DELEGATES
COULD START TO DEMAND SOME ANSWERS.  THEY COULD START
TO DEMAND SOME SOLUTIONS.  THEY COULD START GIVING SOME
DIRECTION TO THE LEGISLATURE OR THE LEGISLATORS.  

THE LAST TIME I SAW THAT WAS THE VIETNAM WAR WHEN THE
DELEGATES STOOD UP TO THEIR LEADERS AND BOOED 'EM OFF THE
STAGE AND SAID WE DON'T WANT YOUR WAR AND WE DON'T WANT
YOUR LYNDON JOHNSON.  IT HASN'T HAPPENED IN 20 YEARS, BUT IT
IS A POTENTIAL FOR RELEVANCE.  I DON'T THINK IT WILL HAPPEN
THIS TIME AROUND.  BUT IT MAY IN THE FUTURE IF THINGS KEEP UP
THIS WAY.  

LOEW:
BRANDON SCHOLZ, ARE THE PARTIES RELEVANT?  ARE THE
CONVENTIONS RELEVANT?  

BRANDON SCHOLZ:
SURE THEY ARE.  CONVENTIONS ARE RELEVANT BECAUSE YOU
BRING A THOUSAND PEOPLE INTO YOUR CONVENTION.  THESE ARE
THE FOOT SOLDIERS AND PEOPLE THAT MAKE CAMPAIGNS WORK. 
AND YOU KNOW, I KNOW BILL THINKS THAT CONVENTIONS CAN
TURN THINGS AROUND, BUT IF THE PEOPLE THAT COME TO
CONVENTIONS ARE HAPPY, WITH THEIR LEGISLATURE AND THEIR
CONGRESSMAN AND THEIR PARTY, THEY WON'T FIGHT AT THE
CONVENTION.  THEY'LL WORK TOGETHER AND PLAN TO WIN
ELECTIONS IN THE FALL.  

SO IN ONE SENSE, THE CONVENTIONS ARE RELEVANT BECAUSE
THEY'RE RELEVANT FOR THOSE PEOPLE WHO WORK IN THE
TRENCHES WHO GET INVOLVED.  I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY'RE
RELEVANT IN THE SENSE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO CONVINCE THE
WORLD, YOU KNOW, OF WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE FALL
ELECTIONS.  

LOEW:
BUT FOOT SOLDIERS TO DO WHAT?  THESE DAYS, THE CANDIDATES
CAN TAPE A VOICE AND AUTOMATICALLY DIAL 12,000
HOUSEHOLDS, AND YOU'VE GOT PAID POLITICAL COMMERCIALS. 
YOU DON'T NEED PEOPLE GOING DOOR TO DOOR.  THEY'RE NOT
RAISING FUNDS.  WHAT DO YOU NEED BODIES FOR?  

BILL KRAUS:
TO GET BACK TO THE QUESTION ABOUT THE CONVENTIONS AND
THEIR IMPORTANCE AND RELEVANCE, THEY GIVE THEMSELVES
AWAY BY HAVING THEM ON THE SAME WEEKEND.  YOU WOULDN'T
CONSIDER DOING THAT 20 OR 30 YEARS AGO.  EVERYBODY WAS
GOING TO GET THREE FRONT PAGE STORIES IN EVERY PAPER IN THE
STATE AND TELEVISION COVERAGE.  AND IT WAS AN EVENT, A
MEDIA EVENT.  THEY WON'T GET ANY AND THEY KNOW IT.  

LOEW:
WHEN YOU SAY GIVE THEMSELVES AWAY WHAT DO YOU MEAN?  

KRAUS:
BY SCHEDULING IT THE SAME WEEKEND.  

DIXON:
THE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS AT THE SAME TIME.  THEY
GAVE IT UP.  

LOEW:
THEY'RE NOT EXPECTING MEDIA COVERAGE?  

KRAUS:
THEY KNOW THEY'RE NOT IMPORTANT.  IF YOU GET A FRONT PAGE
STORY OUT OF THIS CONVENTION, IT'LL BE BECAUSE SOMEBODY
KILLED THEMSELVES OR SET THEMSELVES ON FIRE.  

LOEW:
COME ON, BRANDON SCHOLZ.  WHAT NEWS IS COMING OUT OF
YOUR CONVENTION?  

SCHOLZ:
I JUST WANT TO TELL BILL THAT IF HE LOOKED AT THIS MORNING'S
"WISCONSIN STATE JOURNAL," THERE WERE FRONT PAGE STORIES
ABOUT THE CONVENTIONS.  AND IN THE PAST, THEY HAVEN'T
SCHEDULED THEM ON THE SAME WEEKEND SO THEY WOULD GET
BETTER EXPOSURE.  THIS HAS HAPPENED BUT I STILL THINK IT
GIVES BOTH PARTIES THE OPPORTUNITIES TO STAND UP AND TRY
SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT, TRY OUT SOME MESSAGES FROM
SOME OF THEIR SPEAKERS.  BOTH CONVENTIONS ARE GOING TO
BRING PEOPLE IN.  THE REPUBLICANS HAVE GOT GOVERNOR
THOMPSON.  THEY'LL HAVE LOTS OF FOLKS AND THE SAME WITH
THE DEMOCRATS IN GREEN BAY.  BUT FOR MESSAGES, I THINK
YOU'VE HEARD IT FROM EVERYBODY.  YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WILL
TALK ABOUT WINNING ELECTIONS IN THE FALL, WHAT ISSUES ARE
IMPORTANT TO THE PEOPLE THAT THEY'RE TRYING TO REACH.  IT'S
GOING TO BE EDUCATION, SOCIAL SECURITY.  ON THE NATIONAL
SCENE, REPUBLICANS ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY'VE
DONE IN THE LEGISLATURE.  CLEARLY TOMMY THOMPSON HAS GOT
OODLES OF STUFF TO TALK ABOUT IN THIS CONVENTION.  I THINK,
AGAIN, BACK TO THE POINT, YOU WON'T CHANGE A LOT OF
PEOPLES' MINDS WITH THE NEWS COMING OUT OF THIS
CONVENTION.  YOU'RE TALKING A PARTY LINE.  THIS IS INSIDER
STUFF.  PEOPLE ARE HERE TO HAVE FUN AND SEE THEIR OLD
FRIENDS.  THEY'RE HERE TO GET THE CAMPAIGN STARTED FOR THE
FALL.  

LOEW:
AND BUILD MOMENTUM.  AND BOTH JERRY GREENFIELD AND
SENATOR DARLING AGREED THAT THE ENVIRONMENT, EDUCATION,
SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICARE ISSUES, BOTH ARE SALIENT TO
WISCONSIN RESIDENTS.  DO YOU GUYS AGREE?  

DIXON:
I HAVE TO AGREE WITH BRANDON AND BILL AS WELL.  THESE
THINGS -- THERE'S BEEN A CHANGE.  I WAS VERY ACTIVE IN
POLITICAL PARTIES FOR DECADES.  YOU COULDN'T KEEP ME AWAY
FROM THE CONVENTION.  IT WAS NOT ONLY IMPORTANT FOR
REASONS OF ISSUES, BUT IT WAS SOCIALIZING WITH PEOPLE.  I
MEAN, EVERYBODY HAS SAID THAT, AND THEY'VE SAID IT FOR A
REASON.  IT'S TRUE.  

KRAUS:
THAT'S THE WAY YOU DID YOUR RECRUITING.  YOU LINED UP
EVERYBODY ALL OVER THE STATE.  

DIXON:
THE DEMOCRATS HAVE THREE PEOPLE AT LEAST GOING FOR
GOVERNOR.  AND IT'S VERY IMPORTANT AS TO WHO JIM DOYLE
SEES, WHO CONGRESSMAN BARRETT SEES, WHO KATHLEEN FALK
SEES, WHO JOHN NORQUIST SEES.  THEY CAN BE A LOT OF FUN.  

LOEW:
NOW THAT WE'VE DETERMINED WHAT ISSUES ARE MOST SALIENT,
WHAT ISSUES SHOULD COME UP AT THE CONVENTION AND WON'T? 
BILL KRAUS?  

KRAUS:
OK.  I GET IT FIRST?  SAME ISSUE BOTH CONVENTIONS.  NOBODY
WILL TALK ABOUT MILWAUKEE, WHICH IS BOTH A PROBLEM AND
AN OPPORTUNITY.  IT'S OUR MAJOR CITY.  IT'S SHRINKING.  IT HAS A
SHAKY ECONOMIC BASE.  IT HAS AN UNEVEN SCHOOL SYSTEM AT
BEST.  

LOEW:
IT'S ABOUT TO LOSE ONE OF ITS CONGRESSIONAL SEATS.  

KRAUS:
IT'S SEGREGATED, AND IT IS A PROBLEM.  ON THE OTHER HAND, IT'S
GOT THE NEW ARTS MUSEUM, MILLER PARK, IT'S GOT UWM
RE-ENERGIZED.  IT HAS THE MEDICAL COLLEGE OF WISCONSIN.  

LOEW:
WHY WON'T THEY TALK ABOUT IT?  

KRAUS:
THE REPUBLICANS WON'T TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE THEY'LL SCARE
THE SUBURBS THAT THEY'LL DO SOMETHING RADICAL.  THE
DEMOCRATS WON'T TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE THEY WOULD SEEM
TO BE CRITICIZING NORQUIST  AND THE DEMOCRATS THAT ARE
RUNNING, YOU SEE.  BUT IT IS A MAJOR ISSUE ON SEVERAL ANGLES
IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN.  AND IT WILL NOT COME UP.  

LOEW:
OK, MILWAUKEE.  BRANDON SCHOLZ, WHAT ISSUE SHOULD YOUR
FOLKS BE TALKING ABOUT THIS WEEKEND, BUT PROBABLY WON'T?  

SCHOLZ:
YOU KNOW, PATTY, BEFORE I CAME OVER I WENT TO A BIG
RECEPTION AND I TALKED TO WELL OVER TWO DOZEN PEOPLE, AND
I ASKED THEM THAT QUESTION.  WHAT SHOULDN'T COME UP? 
WHAT DO YOU HOPE DOESN'T COME UP?  I COULDN'T GET A SINGLE
ANSWER FROM ANYBODY THAT SAID, OH, BOY I DON'T WANT THIS
TO HAPPEN.  WE KNOW THAT ISSUES ARE GOING TO COME UP AND
THE RESOLUTIONS AND THE PLATFORM DEBATES WILL SEE THEM
COME UP.  THEY COME UP EVERY YEAR.  EVERY TWO YEARS, WE
SAY, OH, THEY'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT ABORTION.  WHAT'S
GOING TO HAPPEN?  YOU KNOW WHAT?  EVERYTHING IS ON THE
TABLE AT THESE CONVENTIONS THROUGH THE DEBATE PROCESS,
EVERY CANDIDATE COMES AND KIND OF SHOWS THEMSELVES. 
THERE IS NOT TOO MUCH THAT YOU CAN RUN AWAY FROM.  THE
PRESS IS GOING TO BE HERE TO COVER IT.  THE DELEGATES ARE
HERE TO COVER IT.  THEY'RE SINGLE ISSUE PEOPLE THAT RUN
AROUND THESE CAMPAIGNS AND WANT THEIR ISSUES BROUGHT UP. 
AND THEY'LL BE BROUGHT UP ON THE FLOOR THROUGH THE
DEBATE PROCESS.  I THINK THE THING THAT WILL COME UP THAT
WILL BE NEW FOR THE REPUBLICANS THAT HASN'T COME UP IN THE
PAST THAT THEY DIDN'T WANT TO BRING UP-- AND THAT IS AN
ENDORSEMENT PROCESS.  THEY WILL, ON SUNDAY, ENDORSE A
CANDIDATE FOR THE U.S.  SENATE, WHICH IS NOT SOMETHING THAT
I CAN REMEMBER THAT HAS HAPPENED SINCE 1978 WITH BOB
KASTEN.  

LOEW:
AND THAT TURNED OUT DISASTROUS FOR THEM.  

SCHOLZ:
IT SURE DID.  

KRAUS:
OH, ACTUALLY I THOUGHT IT TURNED OUT WELL.  

LOEW:
WELL, YES.  THAT WASN'T A COMMENT ON THE QUALITY OF YOUR
CANDIDATE, BUT IT CERTAINLY FRACTURED THE PARTY AND
TURNED THE PARTY ON ITS EAR.  BECAUSE OF COURSE THE
CANDIDATE THAT GOT THE ENDORSEMENT WASN'T THE ONE WHO
WON THE PRIMARY.  

KRAUS:
IT GOES BACK TO THE ORIGINAL QUESTION.  WHEN WE DIDN'T GET
THE ENDORSEMENT, WE FOUND OUT LATER THAT IF WE HAD, WE'D
HAVE GOTTEN $5,000.  

DIXON:
THIS WAS LEE DREYFUS AGAINST BOB KASTEN.  

KRAUS:
IN 1978, THE PARTY WAS ALREADY BROKE, SO YOU WERE
BEGINNING TO SEE THE MONETARY EFFECTS OF THE POST
WATERGATE REFORMS.  

LOEW:
WE'LL GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD.  WHAT ISSUE OUGHT TO COME UP
AT THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION AND WON'T?  

DIXON:
I WANT TO GIVE HALF OF MY VOTE TO WHAT BILL KRAUS SAID.  I
NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT, BUT HE'S ENTIRELY RIGHT ABOUT THE
MILWAUKEE PROBLEM.  THE ANSWER I CAME PREPARED TO SAY
WAS, LIKE BILL'S, IT'S THE SAME FOR BOTH PARTY CONVENTIONS. 
AND THAT'S A GIANT MIRROR IN WHICH THEY LOOK INTO IT AND
SAY, HOW IS IT THAT WISCONSIN HAS LOST ITS REPUTATION FOR
PROGRESSIVE GOVERNMENT UNDER BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES, AND
ITS REPUTATION FOR HONEST GOVERNMENT UNDER BOTH
POLITICAL PARTIES?  BECAUSE ANYONE COULD SAY BOTH OF
THOSE HAVE BEEN ERODED.  I THINK BOTH PARTIES HAVE TO
START LOOKING AT THAT OR WE'LL BE HERE IN NOVEMBER OF 2002
BEMOANING THE FACT THAT 28% OF THE PEOPLE VOTED FOR
PRESIDENT.  AND IT'S DOWN AGAIN TO HISTORIC LOWS HERE,
BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT LOOKING AT WHY IS IT THAT WE'VE LOST
THESE GREAT TRADITIONS WHICH BOTH PARTIES HAD OF BEING
PROGRESSIVE AND HONEST.  THEY SHOULD ANSWER THAT.  

LOEW:
BILL DIXON, BILL KRAUS, BRANDON SCHOLZ, THERE AT YOUR
CONVENTION, HAVE A GREAT TIME AND A BRAT AND A BEER FOR
US.  

SCHOLZ:
WILL DO.  

LOEW:
LET'S GO OVER TO JERRY.  

HUFFMAN:
THANKS, PATTY.  COMING UP NEXT WEEK, WE'LL VISIT WITH A
VETERAN NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO SCIENCE CORRESPONDENT
WHO WILL BE HERE IN WISCONSIN TO ATTEND AN ENERGY
CONFERENCE.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MOON GYPSIES, FOR YOUR
MUSIC TONIGHT.  IT'S MY TURN TO GET OUT OF THE WAY AND LET
THEM PLAY.  EVERYONE HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.  

I TRY TO TALK TO YOU
YOU DON'T LISTEN
YOU'RE SOMEWHERE ELSE
ON SOME KIND OF MISSION
I TRY TO TALK TO YOU
YOU'RE A MILLION MILES AWAY

WHEN YOU LOOK AT ME
YOU LOOK RIGHT THROUGH
YOU DON'T SEE ME FOR ME
YOU JUST SEE YOU FOR YOU
YEAH, WHEN YOU LOOK AT ME
YOU'RE A MILLION MILES AWAY
YOU MIGHT AS WELL BE AN ASTRONAUT
THE MAN ON THE MOON
OR A COSMONAUT...

CAPTIONING BY -- WISCONSIN CAPTIONING COMPANY
PHONE: 920-451-7822
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