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new old look
I have always been fascinated by the look of vintage photographs taken with antique view cameras. The mellow, painterly tonal range, the quickly vanishing sharpness if you leave the center of the image, the slight vignetting ... now I've found a way to emulate that without making my own plates and carrying a ton of wood - Noctilux, wide open during daylight with Kodak Imagelink film. Does this look like a picture from the turn of the century? Does anybody besides me like that?
-- Johann Schweigl, April 22, 2003; 05:45 P.M. Eastern
No, it's just you.Kidding of course. Very nice image.
-- Todd Peach
I like that *look* too. I've seen the characteristics that you're talking about in images made with earlier uncoated optics which undoubtedly didn't have all those pesky aberrations under control! I know I'm eccentric, but I think some of the most beautiful images were probably made with the least *perfect* optics.
-- Art Waldschmidt , April 22, 2003; 06:02 P.M. Eastern
Very nice. Out of curiousity (a quick search didn't turn up anything), where do you get the Imagelink film in 135?Thanks.
-- George Kenney
Yeah! Where? Tell us. Pleeeeeze...
-- Al Kaplan, April 22, 2003; 06:17 P.M. Eastern
Imagelink Film Can someone explain????. Never heard of the stuff. Thanks
-- Alex Coleman , April 22, 2003; 06:19 P.M. Eastern
I ordered Imagelink from a german website: www.8x11film.com. They distribute chemicals from SPUR, another small german company, which specialises in high resolution imagery. I've used SPUR Imagespeed Professional developer, which is designed for pictorial photography with Imagelink and comes with two selfloaded 36-shot film canisters. Absolutely painless to use - 5 minutes rotation in my Jobo processor and done. The site's owner is a Minox collector and user and obviously has some need for highres film. I believe they also sell Agfa Copex and Delta 100 in Minox cartridges. SPUR has some background in medical and technical imaging chemistry, so they nicely match ...
-- Johann Schweigl
A picture from the turn of the century?Sure... but which century? ;)
-- Ivar Wind Skovgaard , April 22, 2003; 06:34 P.M. Eastern
johann, very nice image. can you expound on imagelink film. i, like others, have not heard of it. iso?? is it processed like any other b&w film?? would ilford pan50 work as well?? is your image photoshop'd or did you tone it? between you and marc williams i am lusting for the noct.
-- tom chandler
The German site, 8x11, ships only to European countries. Plus which it does not seem to list Kodak Imagelink film (anymore?) on its site, but instead has what I presume is the comparable Agfa product.Any other suggestions??? It's Kodak, for God's sake, it must be available here in the US.
-- George Kenney
It's nice, but couldn't you do almost the same (albeit with less center sharpness, obviously, and with light leaks) with a Holga, or a pinhole camera, at a (seriously) infinitesimal fraction of the price? Not to mention the larger neg:http://www.foundobjectsgallery.com/index1.htm
http://www.sightphoto.com/sightphoto/story/cuba/cuba01.html
I suppose it's a moot point if cost is not a concern for some folks.
-- Andrew Lee , April 22, 2003; 07:04 P.M. Eastern
It seems that 8x11film.com has only translated a subset of the website into English, and the Imagelink film information is only available in German at http://www.8x11film.com/spur/navdeu.htmlThe most disappointing news is that they will only sell to European addresses :( There is mention of distribution negotiations, so maybe we'll see it Stateside in the future.
-- Stuart Dorman
Pan F / Imagelink
Tom, I didn't know about Imagelink too until I found it on 8x11 film. It is a microfilm, ISO 25 and needs a special developer for pictorial photography. According to the datasheets it has higher resolution than Agfa Copex which is a very similar beast. I've tried quite a lot of slow film and Imagelink is my new favourite. TechPan is nice, but sometimes a hassle to develop, Agfa Copex is nice, but Imagelink has the best tonality so far. Attached is a combined 1:1 crop from two 4000 dpi scans, left Pan F, developed in SPUR HRX, right Imagelink in SPUR Imagespeed. I'm not a darkroom wizard, so maybe there is more potential in Pan F, but the difference is quite visible anyhow.The image on top of the thread was, just cropped, no levels or curves adjusted. After the resize to 500 px 12% unsharp masking with a radius of 1,5 px and treshold 0 was applied, that's all. I didn't tone it. I'm scanning all B&W as 48bit colour and this is what the scanner saw.
-- Johann Schweigl
Nice image. I like that vintage feel. But I wonder why you have to spend a couple grand, carry around such a heavy thing, and have your viewfinder partially blocked when blurry, vignetted photos can be made much more cheaply and easily. I don't suppose the extra stop or two of speed really matters for work like this. I guess if you find value in the Noctilux's other attributes, it's just a side bonus that you can also make pictures with that Zorki look?
-- Beau Brashares
Andrew, Beau: good point. But there is some difference between Holga and this setup - even if have to agree that the attempt is somewhat decadent. The Holga doesn't get anything sharp enough. I have and use one and sure like it, but I didn't get even near what I wanted to see although it has some of the look I was searching for. Well, that's a quite individual thing. I have a few Holga images in my portfolio too. Yes, it's a side bonus of the Noct that I was not aware of. Beau mentions the Zorki look - I also tried a Helios 40 1.5/85 and like it too, but it didn't ring my bell that much. Maybe it's because the Noct is, after all, an excellent, modern lens with some strange characteristics when used with an amount of light that it isn't made for, and the hires film compensates for the small neg. But i just started and will put that film behind that Helios too. We'll see ;-)
-- Johann Schweigl
Johan Thanks for the info. The film isn't actually mentioned on the web site. But I'm sure a email would sort this out with them. I am in Europe so I can easily order the stuff. Sorry Forgot to say Nice picture earlier. Do you know if this Kodak Imagelink Film is available in 120 roll ????.
-- Alex Coleman , April 22, 2003; 07:40 P.M. Eastern
Alex, I just had a look - the imagelink pages aren't translated yet. As far as I see on the Kodak site, this film doesn't seem to be available in any useful format or packaging unless someone does the customization. That's what I found: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/business/docimaging/globalPages/tabbedContent.jhtml?id=3100043&show;=3100208
-- Johann Schweigl
Hi everybody! Johann Schweigl told me about his nice Imagelink results and to have a look at them here - reading your postings I got remembered that I am completely behind actualizing the english section of my website - sorry for that! I will put in some missing parts within the next days. The Kodak Imagelink HQ film is not available at regular shops. It comes on 30,5 metre rolls with perforated 35mm material directly from Kodak (normally dedicated for regular mikrofilming applications). The Fotoengineer Heribert Schain (SPUR = Speed Photography & Ultrahigh Resolution) designed a special developer for the pictorial use of this material. Creating such developers is one of his specialities and his products are results of more than 11 years of research. His first microfilm developer was the Dokuspeed for Technical Pan, then he designed the Nanospeed for Agfa Copex Rapid Mikrofilm. The Imagespeed process is a brandnew product which is on the market since two months. The film gives a resolution of 800 Lines (Copex = 600 lines). We sell it as ready loaded 35mm Film (2 Rolls 36 exp.) with 50 ml developer and as bulk roll (developer available as extra package).Our aim is to support the market outside Europe, too - but we decided to search and find distribution partners (for example in te U.S. and Canada) first.
Best regards, Marcus Dunkmann
-- Marcus Dunkmann , April 23, 2003; 04:29 A.M. Eastern
Hi Johann!Sightly OT, but yup -- the mellow, painterly tonal range, the look of a picture from the turn of the century (prior to 1901) -- besides you, I like that too. As a matter of fact, that is the main reason, maybe the only reason that I someday might buy a Nocti (alongside my 2/50, 2/40 and 2/35). It isn't the speed I need, it's the vintage look here!
-- Michael Kastner
Johann,really a nice look. But I could think of more interesting subjects, though. A cheaper way then the summilux would be an old scratched Summar, this one would even generate the same amount of flare as cameras of about 80 years of age ;-). But the imagespur look combined with the almost flare-free Noctilux opens up new possibilities. And of course provides you with a reason to buy that vampire glass.
But I would like to see an old low-contrast lens like the summar on imagespur - too bad I cannot develop film myself due to the lack of a darkroom.
-- Kai Blanke , April 23, 2003; 10:58 A.M. Eastern
Kai, I haven't got a summar, but will give my summarit a try.
-- Johann Schweigl
You guys are missing the point. At least the center of the image has to be very, very sharp. It's the combination of the sharp (in the center) noctilux, shallow depth of field, vignetting, and high resolution technical film that produces a remarkably good imitation of an old large format image. Very cool!A Holga would not quite do it -- not sharp enough, despite the larger format. A crappy scratched lens would not do it at all.
-- Cameron Sawyer
Johann,when using the Summarit, don't forget to remove the coating (if it is coated) with 'Schmirgelpapier' (does someone know the translation into english ?) ! I found the scratches on my Summar necessary for the old look. If you should happen to be in Munich I would happily lend you my lens for testing, but you can easily get one in similar condition for about 50 EUR I guess.
-- Kai Blanke , April 24, 2003; 02:50 A.M. Eastern
Collodion plate is sensitive to blue light.
Most modern technical films are sensitive to red light, so, the emulsions are on totally different sides of the scale.
Tech Pan is generally unsuitable for portaits, for example, because the film "over-reads" the delicate red tones, giving faces a pasty appearance.
Here, the areas hit by direct sunlight (and infra-red) appear much brighter than the "bluer" shadows.
-- Charles Klopman , April 24, 2003; 11:43 A.M. Eastern
Hello Kai, you wrote "when using the Summarit, don't forget to remove the coating (if it is coated) with 'Schmirgelpapier' (does someone know the translation into english ?)!""Emery paper" will hit it best, I guess, "sandpaper" or "abrasive paper" are good also. Or just take emery cloth (Schmirgelleinen), this lasts longer.
Best regards, Karl-Heinz
-- karl-heinz strohmeier , April 25, 2003; 03:47 A.M. Eastern