Thottbot World of Warcraft: Paladin

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Whats the diff between flash of light and the holy light

Flash of Light has a lower cast time and heals for significantly less than Holy Light

Holy Light is the main Heal spell for paladins. It takes longer and costs more in mana but if you need a substantial heal it is key. Now if you need a quick flash heal to keep someone alive until the HOly light casts then Flash of light is handy.

I see seal of command both as a talent in the retribution tree, and as a skill. Are they the same thing or different or what? I was under the impression that talents either improved existing skills or were altogether different... can someone explain to me how that works? Thanks.

After you spend 1 talent point to learn certain skills, like seal of command or holy shock, then you can visit a trainer to buy rank 2 or better versions of the skill (so long as you are high enough level that is).

what would happen if you learned a talent like that, then bought the higher skill levels from the trainer.. then reset your talents so that you no longer had that talent?

would you still be able to use the higher level versions you purchased from the trainer?

No.

Would it be better to max anticipation or toughness? Not sure how to compare the +10 defense to +10% armor...

From what I'm reading on Blessing of Kings, multiple paladins can stack that on a single character, right? Also, does anyone know of the recast on it?

No it can't be stacked, it's instacast (no cooldown) and it lasts 5 minutes. Multiple paladins can keep more than one seal on a player, but only one paladin can put one type of seal on you at a time... try stacking Blessings of Might. The paladin with the strongest/ highest level of Blessing of Might will have his blessing stick, and the other paladin will get the message "A more powerful spell is already in place." I think that would be the message if more than one paladin tried to cast BoK on a single player.

you will be able to cast BoK on any target regardless of wheather or not it has already been cast on that target. BoK does not level so lvl 1 is as strong as it gets. However, it will not stack...it will just restart the duration timer (5 minutes). in other words, BoK is castable on a target w/ BoK currently active but it does not stack. one blessing at a time per paladin, none of them stack.

you can get them both at a high enough level. even if you spec'd everything you could in retribution, you should have enough points left over to go far enough down the protection line to get 'Toughness' at later levels.

Edit:
Also, the 10% armor bonus will give u a greater % dmg reduction against melee attacks whereas the +10 to defense skill will make it harder for the enemy to hit you. (if you put your pointer over your character's armor value, it will give you the % reduction you do to a hit from someone your lvl.)

what exactly does a 15% increase to the amount of threat mean? the "increase" in the amount of threat seems of be an arbitrary value. it's hard enough for paladins to gain an agro with seals that provide a lot higher DPS than this one. are we actually able to gain agro with this seal/improved seal? is it even worth it?

I have exactly 5 points left to work with in my talent spec, and I'm uncertain as to whether I will get more benefit out of maxing Anticipation or Toughness. Since Anticipation is a tier 3 skill, I'm inclined to believe that +10 defense is better than +10% armor value from items (tier 2). I was told that your ability to hit something is a function of the difference between your skill with the weapon you're using the defense of the enemy. I would rather have my enemies missing more (or me dodging more) than taking less damage from their hits. It also occurs to me that lots of items acquired in game will give you more armor, but precious few will give you more defense, so defense > armor? I'm not exactly sure... I was hoping someone would be able to tell me with certainty that +10 defense is more valuable than +10% armor from items.

I had the same problem, trying to decide which is better between the two. I would say that it probably depends on the monster your fighting. If the monster/player is significantly higher level than you chances are it's going to hit you pretty much always irregardless of your defense, while the armor will help every time it does. I agree though, that critters and players missing us is much preferable to less damage. If your fighting stuff close to your level, I'd say that the defense is probably more worth it. Or if your fighting casters... Since I believe armor damage reduction only affects physical damage, while the defense actually would make you harder to hit with spells as well. So my thoughts are unless it is a boss monster or a player or critter that's 4 or 5 levels higher that primarily does physical damage defense is probably better. Btw, physical does not mean "melee", melee implies only weapons at point blank, but I'm pretty sure ranged weapons (rifles, bows, thrown weapons, but probably not wands) are also reduced in damage by armor.

When you are actively using a seal, the proc rate is per minute, not %chance per hit. Meaning that if you use a slower weapon, you're going to get the same number of procs as you would with a fast one. Now, my question is, how does this work with Judgement of Light. Is that just a straight up % chance to get healed per hit? (meaning a faster weapon would be better) If not, how does it work when there are multiple people attacking the same judged mob? Is the procs per minute for ALL the people, or per individual, or what? Thanks!

apparently if you hit "back" after posting it re-posts :)

The skill increases your attack power, attack speed, but decreases your attack damage every hit. Is the ratio of increased attack power : decreased damage equal all the way through the ranks, or does the increase attack power have a greater increase than the damage reduction at higher ranks??

(im leaving out the attack speed bonus because it has nothing to do with my question) I'm just wondering about the ratio between the first 2 bonuses

The seal is basically saying that the longer you use the seal the less powerful the hits are going to be and therefore you'll start to lose some of your DPS. My question is, if you renew the seal again and again will you get the same results as if it were new or does it have a different timer unto itself?

I'm not sure :P, im just trying to justify using another skill rather than seal of command (since it got nerfed so bad :( )

thanks for the reply though :)

Im still a little confused about this skill, if the skill says "judging a monster with this seal will increase the amount of holy damage taken by up to 58" ---> Does this mean that as long as i do holy damage (ie. 1 holy dmg, or 300 holy dmg) it will add another 58 holy damage??? Or is it some messed up formula that includes your level difference and what not?? Or is there a % chance that it will add 0- 58 holy damage on every holy attack you land?

Otherwise the text does not make SENSE!! lol Either the 58 should be a % added to your holy damage (thus the monster takes an extra 58% dmg from holy), OR There is a limit to the amount of holy damage a monster can recieve, and judging it only heightens that cap.

I would really appreciate some insight on this topic :)

I was thinking it was 1-58 because of the word "up to". Btw, thank you for the person who stated that the proc rate isn't a chance but per minute now. I always thought it was a set chance, but I guess you can bump up the kill rate. Time all of the fights within 30 seconds.

______________________________________

FE:

Begin of 60 Seconds

HoJ - 6 second stun (Level 54, scales 1 per second as you get lower)

Judgement of Crusader - Unleash it on enemy for 30 seconds -----> Same 30 seconds
/
Seal Of Command - Wait until it runs out, for DPS ---------------------/

Seal Of Life - On yourself

Judgement of Wisdom - Enemy

________________

Is this possible, and then right after the fight cast Blessing of Wisdom and rest until full mana and do Blessing of Might again? Even if it's still Chance per minute, the fact is slower weapons (2h) will have less of a chance to hit than 1h in the time window the seal is up unless the skills is capped at 30 p/m - 15 if only 30 seconds (Lowest speed 2h weapon on Thott is 2.0): 12 for 2.5 spd and 16 for 1.8 spd (30 Second Seal), so even if it is x per minute won't the 1h activate the seal more because it can hit more until the seal goes away? I know you can recast the skill, but most fights don't last that long.

I'm thinking it's possible for Pally to have a very fast kill rate because of the Redemption tree.

BTW:

Anyone tried using Conceration as AoE taunt, mixed with unleashed (not even unleashed) Seal of Fury?

You say the seals have "procs" which are per min. Wht is seal of commands proc rate? does this mean that if you dont proc after 10 swings with a 3.00 sec weapon (30sec) that you will have a really high chance to proc for the next 30 sec??

I don't know. My understanding is the forumla is basically X per minute of use, with some random factor involved. I doubt it keeps memory of how long it's been since it proc'ed between multiple casts of the seal, though. Seal of Command has been nerfed severely in the last patch, with some people on the forums saying that they've only had it proc 2-3 times per 20 (!) fights with similar level mobs. Also its damage is apparently not holy - doesn't work with unleashed Crusader's.

Woah, thats a gigantic nerf. If it's not holy that means it can be absorbed by armor, thus lessening the blow even more. I was told what made old pre-talent Palading crit well was the fact if they did Holy Strike and crit at 60 for 1.5k damage it was pure "Holy " damage and can't be mitigated by armor. The situation leads me to beleive that it is chance, and capped at minute like Seal of Justice (Hence the talent to raise it).

There needs to be serious work to make DPS Pally viable. I haven't tried it yet and perhaps I will make another alt once I am comfortable with my current Prot/Heal Pally. The Ret tree seems to give a delusion of DPS, but the paladin really has no skill to make use of them. SoC, SoR (in holy tree) and nerfed Seal Of Command, but there is also a perm BoM which can be used. I guess the important thing for consistent high DPS is to find a really good weapon and get STR/AGI equip with +to crit. Though, it would just be for novelty because a Warrior will always out DPS you over time (with same equip and their nerfed MS) if they keep hitting and Shaman will steam roll you (three times if you 'noob shield' and LoH) in PvP. Then you get those people who argue Pally is no DPS'er. Me, I don't want DPS, I just want even kill rate in PvE with some of the other classes.

Lets say you have rank 3 holy shock (which means you spent the 1st point in the talent and spent boat loads for the next 2 ranks). Then you relearn all your talents wiping them clean, if you were to learn holy shock again, would you have to re-buy ranks 2 and 3, or is it passivley saved, knowing that you have previously bought it?

buy again:)

I tend not to use this one as much, but from reading the text of what its supposed to do, i had gathered that in 'releasing' the seal of the crusader on an enemy, it would do holy dmg to the enemy on top of what you hit it for-somewhat in the same fashion as seal of righteousness works. i could be wrong. i don't believe that it matters whether you were causing holy dmg or just hitting them with a sword/mace, etc when releasing the seal.

as a side note, i have used this skill several times, and i find that i favor the seal of righteousness over the crusader. anyone else played a paladin that can shed some more light on this subject?

Its pretty much basic math the formula for proc percentage is:

D = 1.67pa

where:
D = proc %
p = proc rate (proc/min)
a = attack speed of weapon ( sec/swing)

Example; Im not sure wht seal of commands proc rate is... but lets say its 5 proc/min. and i am using a weapon with attack speed of 3.00

therefore D = 1.67*5*3 = 25% chance to proc per swing.

If i was using a weapon with 1.5 attack speed:

D = 1.67*5*1.5 = 12.5% chance to proc per swing.

As you can see proc chance with any seal will decrease with faster weapons!

Again the 5 in the equation was an estimate. I dont know the proc rate of seal of command, but this just gives you an idea of how it is calculated.

does Blessing of Kings have more than one rank? i can't see its higher ranks in the spell/skill list - but then again, i can't see higher ranks of the sanctity aura there either (and that's an aura that should have more than one rank).

EDIT: nevermind this question :)

will judging an enemy with seal of the crusader (making him/her/it take additional holy damage when hit, for 30s) make your consecration spell do additional damage to him/her/it, since it's holy damage? i'm thinking, maybe this is a great combo. no?

Yes, Judgment of the Crusader does indeed stack with Consecration. The only downside that you can usually only get JoC on one or two enemies at a time, while Consecration is an AoE ability potentially affecting several mobs at once.

Sorry to change the subject on you guys =o

But I was wondering what quests/gold are involved in getting the Summon: Warhorse spell? From what I heard before its basically free, you just have to do a quest. But some other people in my guild say that it still costs 100g and they will take this statement with them to the grave. Could anyone clarify this for me?

Thanks.

But I was wondering what quests/gold are involved in getting the Summon: Warhorse spell? From what I heard before its basically free, you just have to do a quest. But some other people in my guild say that it still costs 100g and they will take this statement with them to the grave. Could anyone clarify this for me?

well, looks like the people in your guild are going to be dying shamefully. It is "free" not need to pay 100g, just do the quest.

does anyone know if the Sanctity Aura (10% increased holy damage done by nearby friendly targets) has more than one rank? if it's trainable to higher ranks at your trainer once you've gained it through the holy talent tree, that is. i would really like to know this, so if you know, please post it here! :)

Thank you for the exact equation. However, it is balanced at the point where the 1h will simply hit more in tha time frame than the 2h. Then it comes to play style, and necessities. Well, with this information it seems a Burst DPS pally becomes sort of viable with wolf modifiers on his equipment and maybe a few +agi and +stam rings and necklaces. All mana will have to be saved for heals though, so making a Ret/Hol build viable. Really exciting stuff.

Is consecration a channel ability? or is it insta-cast and lasts in that area for 8secs while the Pally gets to be medieval on enemies with their weapon of choice?

As stated before proc % is based on weapon speed. Some people might find this part really amusing :)

I know a lot of people use divine shield as a time to heal while the duration is lasting. BUT what if you did this......

Get the slowest weapon you can find with the most damage (this weapon would have the MOST damage per hit) and use divine shield (slows attacks by 50%!!) and you basically double your chance for procing. in my previous post with a 5 proc/min chance (which seems valid with testing), if you had a weapon with speed of 4 and used divine shield (changes speed to 6) the proc per swing would be boosted to 50%!! This could be another way to END pvp challenges really quickly. You could get 2 swings off with this weapon (now we are talking about HUGE damage here!!! with SoC) let say both swings proc.... lets say they will be calling you a hacker until warcraft 4 comes out!!

test

It's instacast

i heard some people talking about spirit playing a role in proc equations, in all attacks that have "chance on hit" without any numerical values. does anyone know how big the role of spirit is in this, or if it�s even true, if it is, how much spirit do you need to be effective?

can some1 help me with the skillpoints+ professions for a paladin?

i wanna know the pro's and con's for diffrent profesion combinations... i heared minin/blacksmith is best?? any input from high paladins?

and as i said plz some input where to spend skillpoints and yuur motivation

thx :)

btw.... dwarf or human paladin better? and why

testing

which race do you all suggest? dwarf or human? and can some1 explain why?

btw can some1 put a decent plan for skillpoints? and if possible how and why you picked those skills....

id also like to know what proffesions suit paladins the best

thx

hi i was wondering if some1 could explain to me the pro's and con's of dwarf/human paladin.

and also:

and explained version of what skill's to put in you points.
also if some1 could explain what professions are best for the pali :)

thx

Does anyone have a nice markup of there talent tree that best for PVP, PVE? im starting a new pally but have no idea where to spend my points.

Best to worst

1. Crusader - DPS compared to the proccing of Righteousness exceeds far better. The reason we even have Righteousness is because the judgement is better. Crusader rank 2 adds about 10 DPS, rank 3 14 DPS. Beat that, Righteousness. Yes, righteousness does reduce damage, but that's just a little nerf. It takes your damage down about 10 damage (rank 3) and makes you attack 1.4 times (almost 50% more) as fast, AS WELL AS giving a might bonus almost equal to your blessing of might with 0/5 improvement talents.
2. Righteousness - See above.
3. Command - From what I've heard, does not proc enough to be of any use in the average battle, therefore almost useless. I'd prefer it to be a super-cruader or righteousness and proc a lot more. However, dunno if these people realize they need to train it at the trainer after they get it!

first, i belive it's 80 for a level 40 horse and 1k for a level 60 horse.
second, paladins horses are FREE, as well as warlock horses. Ur guild's full of a buncha dorks. :-)

Not really cons, here are pros:
Human
+5 to maces and swords, which is a + to min AND MAX, making you hit better and do more damage.
Yes, do more damage. Try using a 20 DPS weapon with 1 training. You do like 3 damage each time you hit.
Perception = Treasure Finding, IMO perception better though cause you already get ONE tracking (undead) with pally, two prolly (veins) from smithing, and i wouldn't really want a 3rd.
Reputation always useful. Not that great, but better in the long run. Gettin better rep a couple quests early can save a little cash.
Spirit +5% Good. +5 sux, but % is good. Not GREAT, but decent - 100+5 would be it. lol. you need 20 to get even 1. lol. But hey, IMO better than dwarfy skills.

Dwarf
Smaller. Can fit through smaller spaces. Really, you can. Not joking. Like the towers in loch modan, a dwarf can go through the big slits in the top but a human can't.
Guns useless. Can't use em.
Treasure finding see above.
Frost resistance - was never in favor of anything but nature. Nature is poisons. How often u come across frost damage?
Stoneform - Semi-good, but the only good thing IMO, so unless u want this over all above, be human.

sorry for the ultra multiple posts =/

i gathered that dwarf was the one to pick....but ppl just said: 'they got find treasure, and look cool' :p

but still like an cuple of build suggestions.... i heared something about holyshock?

im planning on making a pala once fullgme comes out....but need the info before i do...dont wanna screw itup. i have a hunter now and the skillpoint suggestion found on the hunter thread helped me ALOT! thats why i was hopeing an expert pala would help me here :)

P.S.: what is proc?

Doesn't the Paladin get Resurrection? If so, what level, and what quest?

Is Holy Shock worth it? I'm doing Ret and Holy for my Talen trees, but the more I look at Holy Shock the less excited I am by it. I could still pretty easily switch to Ret as my main tree (currently Holy is). Any thoughts from High Level Pallys out there?

To answer the horse questions:

Race Specific Mount
Total Cost is 100g
Total Cost with Honored Reputation to the same faction you're getting the mount from is 90g (It's a 10% discount)

W/out the Discount- 80g for the mount and 20g to train the skill.
With the Discount - 72g for the mount and 18g to train the skill.

Class Specific Mount (Warlock and Paly)
The cost to obtain one is free.
However the rider must quest for it
And the quest isn't hard, just gotta talk to a few people, but this won't be forever, it was said before that the quest they are going to put in for future Paly will be hard. As for warlocks I have no idea if their quest is in or not.

My Question
I know there's already an epic mount for all race specific mounts. But Iim wondering if theres an epic mount for all class specific mounts (ie Epic Warhorse for Paly and Epic Felstead for Warlocks.)

I've been playing w/ my skills and can't decide what to get exactly.

I plan on being a tank paly more - one handed w/ a shield.

I've been focusing on Protection talents so far, but I noticed that retribution has some nice things, such as deflection and anticipation (+parry, + defense)

Do you guys think those skills are more worthwhile, or should I bump up other protection/holy instead?

(anyone post their build for tanking paly?)

Someone earlier posted that Crusader > Righteousness > Command.

Does this still hold of I'm a one-handed weapon using Paly and I unleash Crusader first, then use Righteousness. That way, the holy dmg would be increased.

I thought that it would do more dmg since one-handed also attack faster than 2-handed, so i can get in more holy shots.

Procs are on timers there not on % chance, so no crusader is better.

For a tanking pally I would use 1hand+shield with protection/holy talents. Because shield sucks w/o protection talents.
PROTECTION
5 Redoubt
5 Toughness
1 Blessing of San.
5 Shield Spec.
5 Seal of Justice
5 Reckoning
1 Holy Shield
5 One hand Spec.
1 Repentance (another way to heal urself while enemy is disabled)

HOLY
3 Holy Light
5 Spritiual Focus
4 Illumination
1 Divine Favor

RETRIBUTION
5 Blessing of Might
Now the you should use seal of fury, blessing of might, and retribution aura for extra damage. This way you can have massive armor and blocking power but still have some damage and stun for anti caster.

Ok this is the beginning of an all out war between the ret, pro, and holy pallys on this site. Im talking about heart spooning grand guignol violence only characterized by the torrid sound and sight of msg board spamming. The purpose of this post is to get out stuff between the three talent builds and why they are superior, ill start...
My pic would definitely be the protection paladin. Sure our dps isnt very high, but our obscene armor more than compensates and i think they generally own PvP compared to the ret and holy builds i have seen so far. this for the following reasons, pro pallys use a one handed sword, its IAS over the pallys 2h weapons is essential for most of all the seals to run at their best, seal of wisdom, seal of light, and of course the truly nasty seal of justice, which does proc, but upon specialization in the pro tree, this procs alot more and i have shutdown hunters easily with this seal in addition to the nets i get from being an engineer. Given the IAS, pro pallys have a more effective reperatoire of seals, wisdom seal means more mana, more mana means more healing. not only this but pro pallys have another opporotunity to heal with repetance the lv 40 talent in the pro tree. pro pallys have one more life than the other pallys.
-HoJ then heal, but also key for getting in that much needed damage
-Divine shield then heal
-Blessing of protection then heal
-Lay of Hands
-And repetance into heal
Also pro pallys get reckoning so they ear apart warriors using their beserk skill and i have won against most ret pallys simply because their conviction makes them crit at awful rates.

well theres my thought, tear it to shreads and insult it but post ur opinion as well if ur going to do so.

I haven't seen any builds posted so I have come up with my own. I want to know what anyone has to say about it. The idea behind it is keeping the skills rounded out which I feel will help make a good palidan and since in my opinion none of the highest tier abilities for paladins are that great it is easy to spread the points between the trees.

This build would be for a 1H weapon paladin it combines alot of skills that will help take damage and cause misses, along with what I feel are the must have abilities from holy.

Protection :

Rebout - Rank 5
Toughness - Rank 5
Blessing of Sanctuary
Shield Specialization - Rank 5

Total - 16

Retribution :

Improved Blessing of Might - Rank 5
Improved Seal of the Crusader - Rank 5
Deflection - Rank 5
Anticipation - Rank 5
Precision - Rank 3
Consentration - Rank 1

Total - 24

Holy

Spiritual Focus - Rank 5
Illumination - Rank 5
Divine Favor - Rank 1

Total - 11

The two things I somewhat question are blessing of sanc and Concentration. These both sound like good abilities but have never used either and am not sure. Any feedback would be appreciated. thanks :)

My opinoin on protection pally is they are not bad, but they take awful long time to take down people and they suck vs casters, which you must kill them before their dps got you. Of course, protection pally have improved stun and seal of freedom...but the only way to kill casters is to make them die quick.

Now retribution pallys on the other hand, has maasive damage with seal of crusader. Becuase it is a 40% increase, means the slower the weapon, more of the speed increase. For expample, if the weapon is 2.00 speed, it increases by .8. If its a 3.00 speed, it increases by 1.2, etc. Also retri pallys has blessing of kings, which is very good. Also retri pallys' defense is argumented by improved parry, improved defense, and can also hae improved devotion aura(also thoughness if you put some pts in protection far enough).

Repentance just doesnt seem to be a worthwhile final ability in the Protection tree. Am I missing something? Does it perhaps reduce the aggro against you? Maybe it doesnt draw aggro when you use it on a mob that hasn't already aggroed? (allowing you to slip by unmolested). Does it do any other effect than is listed? It seems pretty useless to me if not, as your stun can take an enemy out of battle for 6 seconds and you can still attack the enemy during that time. Having crowd control is nice, but it's pretty sad crowd control compared to root or banish or polymorph.

Blessing of Sanctuary is not useful at all. The listed damage reduction isn't great, but it would still help, if it gave the full benefit. Sanctuary isn't nearly as effective as listed, however. I have tested it thoroughly, letting many monsters beat me nearly to death, both with and without Sanctuary on. I then averaged out the results (criticals hits excluded), and the results showed that Sanctuary barely did half the listed damage reduction. I immediately respecced myself so I could use this point elsewhere.

abuse, first of all it's Consecration not Concentration, and it is a decent ability. The damage isnt spectacular but it works excellently for pulling the aggro of multiple monsters, which you want if you are taking on the role of the tank (which IMO Paladins are well suited for).

Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Toughness Rank 5
Protection Total: 10
Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5
Benediction Rank 5
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization Rank 5
Deflection Rank 5
Vengeance Rank 5
Seal of Command Rank 1
Anticipation Rank 5
Precision Rank 3
Consecration Rank 1
Conviction Rank 5
Blessing of Kings Rank 1
Retribution Total: 41
Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60

Solo:
Blessing of Might/Seal of the Crusader/judgement of the Crusader/Seal of Command/Consecration to start the battle and cycle every 30 seconds. For groups, I'd bless everyone with blessing of kings and get another pally to take over blessing of might.

I have put a lot of study into the paladin, builds, and opponents with regards to pvp. I will list the build i chose and will explain the reasons for my choices below.

holy :

3 improved holy light
2 spiritual focus
5 illumination
1 divine favor

prot :

5 redoubt
5 toughness
2 improved blessing of protection
5 shield spec
1 blessing of sanctuary
2 improved seal of fury
1 holy shield
5 reckoning

ret :

5 improved blessing of might
5 2h specialization/improved SotC (your choice)
1 seal of command
3 vengence (last 3 skill points) your choice may vary here

Ok lets start with holy, IMO these skills give you a free LOH every 2 min. the reason i chose the 3 points into improved holy light instead of maxing spiritual focus is the fact that pallies 90% of the time heal while they are shielded, or the target is stunned. But there are those times in mob battle where you just dont care.
Also, Everyone knows that divine favor combined with max illumination is just amazing. = LOH for FREE MANA. :)

my choices with protection are obviously suited for a shield pally. As you can see this talent build will provide you with a pretty good tanker. ** *Note* mana is the be all and end all of all pallies, we need mana to heal. by casting/judging an opponent with SotC then casting your normal seal again, then casting rank 4 holy shield every 10 MIN, IS NOT WORTH IT!!!. What i do is just use rank 1 holy shield (less mana cost) because all i want is the extra block rate. You will find by doing this you have a lot of extra mana, and are able to heal more intensly.**

Reckoning IMO is the best talent that the pallies have at their disposal. Think about it, by maxing this talent pallies basically equal their crit chance with their opponents. Most rouges have 20+% to crit, which means that the pally will have a 20+% to crit + their own crit chance. I say crit chance cause every time they crit you, you gain an extra attack in between your normal attack intervals. (essentially equivilent to a crit) the beautiful thing about this is... if you were to use SOC with a 2h slow mace.. fighting a rouge is rediculous. a rouge can get about 4-5 shots in for every attack you get. if all of those 5 shots were crit shots. then you would have attacked the rouge 5+1= 6 times with the 2H Mace. **As well along with the extra attack, the proc chance is also stacked** meaning that the extra attack you gain with reckoning has a chance to proc AND crit as well.

My ret choices are as follows because i stongly feel with this build that SOC would work the best, because of the fact previously stated on how SOC can still work with your extra attacks gained with reckoning.

I hope this give some insight to other pallies starting out, also if any experienced players would like to critique my build please do, i am open to suggestions:)

does healing aura even exist anymore??

Hi, i just started a dwarf pally (one handed sword) and i was wondering what set of talents are the best for pure solo paladin (i just got to lvl 10) thanks for any help.

This build's goal was to create a really good tank, that could hold aggro (seal of fury judgement + consecration), and still do pretty good damage.

Protection Mastery
Redoubt Rank 5
Toughness Rank 5
Improved Seal of Fury Rank 5 (sub this out for improved devotion aura, OR improved blessing of prot + improved devotion aura)
Shield Specialization Rank 5
Reckoning Rank 4 (sub out 3 ranks of this into "Precision" if you'd rather hit more often (thinking of doing this myself, unsure till level 60 - will probably get reckoning 3/precision 1 or recokining2/precision2))
Holy Shield Rank 1

Protection Total: 25

Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5
Improved Seal of the Crusader Rank 5 (judge this if you are solo, to increase cons damage)
Deflection Rank 5
Anticipation Rank 5 (sub this out for Vengeance if you'd rather do more damage than tank well - not reccomended)
Consecration Rank 1

Retribution Total: 21

Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus Rank 5
Holy Total: 5

Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60

Yeah, yeah, I don't get the divine favor/illumination BS. But you know what? It doesn't matter as much as people say - sure, it's a great combo, but this build's job is about endurance, and the ability to put out more damage. Divine Favor + Illum isn't worth the 6 extra talent points for this specific build.

???
you confuse me
a guarenteed critical heal for free? every 2 minutes isnt all its cracked up to be?

this skill has saved my life countless times and prevented a party wipe more than once.
No matter what i respec(im currently a prot pally)
i ALWAYS have Divine favour.. best talent we get IMO and im loving the prot tree
(specificaly to kill melee pc's in pvp) (at lvl 48 i could almost beat my 58 rogue assassin spec'd buddy with lifeforce+thrash )

didn't say it wasn't good, just that it isn't the "omg you must have this or you suck" that people make it out to be. I do just fine without it - in pvp and pve.

In fact, I can only think of *two* situations in my entire career (level 43 pally atm) that it would have made a difference.

two situations worth 6 talent points? I think not.

Protection Mastery
Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Redoubt Rank 5
Toughness Rank 4
Blessing of Sanctuary Rank 1
Shield Specialization Rank 5
Improved Seal of Justice Rank 5
Reckoning Rank 5
Holy Shield Rank 1
One-Handed Weapon Specialization Rank 5
Repentance Rank 1
Protection Total: 37
Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus Rank 5
Improved Holy Light Rank 3
Illumination Rank 5
Divine Favor Rank 1
Holy Total: 14
Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60

because of the defense buffs, you should be able to wait close to teh 2 minutes to use holy light. When you can, use divine favor, and get your mana back and a big heal. Basically you tank them until they cannot take you anymore.

Protection Mastery
Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Redoubt Rank 5
Toughness Rank 5
Shield Specialization Rank 5
Reckoning Rank 2
Holy Shield Rank 1
Protection Total: 23
Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus Rank 5
Improved Holy Light Rank 3
Illumination Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Wisdom Rank 5
Divine Favor Rank 1
Divine Wisdom Rank 4
Improved Seal of Light Rank 5
Holy Total: 28
Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60

Basically the same idea as the other. Feedback please on which is better =)

so overpowerd class - its not even funny...

But it doesnt work. 1 v 1, the AC isnt going to make that much of a difference, and casters ignore armor anyway. You want to be able to do as much damage as possible. That means crits. Also blessing of kings is the best buff in the game.

The only protection talent worth it, is reckoning, but requires 25 points to get to 100%.

I can still tank fine, with a 1h and shield, and I have 0 points into protection talents. I've tried both builds, and I find retribution to be superior, by far.

Holy shields damage cannot compete with crit damage, or a seal of command proc.

Stun, Damage shield, Heal, Rez, this class needs a nerf badly. They remind me of the Bowazons when they were so dominant in Diablo 2.

What is the difference between the rank1 to rank4 of seal of command? Other than the obvious more damage of the jugdement.

This is my fav build after 4 specs

=Holy Tree=
Spiritual Focus-5
This with the concentration aura makes 100% uninterruptable heals extremely helpful vs warriors and rogues
Imp Holy Light-3
This goes without saying
Illumination-5
This with the Divine Favor is a truly amazing combo, its a free heal at the rate of a critical every two minutes, one extra heal makes all that much of a difference if its a guaranteed crit
Divine Favour-1
Revelation-2
Controversially chosen but getting your second life 20 minutes faster helps more than some of the other talents in the Holy Tree
Imp Seal Of Righteousness-5
Imp Concetration Aura-3
No easy way to say this but, uninterrupted heals at 100% going rate is alot better than many of u will think.
Sanctity Aura-1
Imp Seal Of Light-5
The judgment becomes so much better when u max this lasting for a whopping 60 seconds, twice as much as normal and i usually get healed 500-600 with one judgement all together
Holy Shock-1
Outstanding talent, i have played ret and prot and this helps much more than BoK and Repetance, it burns players who use last minute heals and its a nice nuke btw

=Retribution Tree=
Benediction-5
Less mana cost for Ret spells really made my mana more available
Imp Seal Of Crusader-5
Even after the nerf the extra damage from the judgment really helps and I sometimes actually use this seal when i use judgement of light to get that extra life out
Seal Of Command-1
Despite its unpredictability if u can heal uninterrupted and u get a free one every 2 mins it worth watching at least one or two procs, i have hit horde for over 1k dmg with this on, yeah it very unpredictable for a horde to suddenly see their life total halved.
Deflection-4
At higher levels, i prefer it over imp devo aura, the imp devo aura is only a little bit stacked on a huge huge lot in the later levels.
Vengeance-5
If I can manage a single critical, Command, Holy Shock, and Seal of Righteousness are gonna do a considerably higher amount of damage.

For the above poster... why Vengeance instead of Improved Retribution Aura?

Edit: Nevermind... I see that Vengeance will give you the possibility of improved burst damage over the more consistent but lower damage from iRetribution Aura.

I have been reading the posting before but basically I will go 2h pala as it seems right now.. not completely sure though.. cant decide really :)

Summary Details Reset
Protection Mastery
Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5 Seems logically for a non shield pala
Toughness Rank 5 just as well

Protection Total: 10

Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5 more att power => more dmg
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization Rank 5 more dmg
Improved Seal of the Crusader Rank 5 more dmg over time and judgement dmg on holy
Vengeance Rank 5 pretty nifty after getting a critical and using seal of command or righteousness
Seal of Command Rank 1 nice dmg if you get some in a row...
Consecration Rank 1 Just for the fun of it :) seems to do some nice extra dmg when teaming and having some adds on the team

Retribution Total: 22

Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus Rank 5 Goes nice with switching to conc aura as it provides a heal without getting interupted
Improved Holy Light Rank 3 more heaaal :)
Illumination Rank 5 nice combo with divine favor
Divine Favor Rank 1 see above.. really helps getting a free crit heal for no mana
Improved Seal of Righteousness Rank 5 to change from command to that

Holy Total: 19

Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60

Not sure how you think about it.. It actually seems to me that being a 2h pala eats up less talentpoints than for a 1h... not so much viable stuff to use... couldnt decide in the end where to put the left over points into... as for 1h you have a little more possibilities.. like holy shield and so on

I am lvl 40 ANd i am goin to reset my talents and i dont know where i should but them!!!!!!!!!!
IF u can give me some suggestions that would be great.

Everyone has been very focussed on dealing damage, or defending well against physical attacks. I've noticed a lot of concern involved with PvP vs. a mage. I think you're all forgetting some very important factors that a paladin has which no other class can take advantage of -- resistance and purify. We can resist fire, shadow and cold damage from mages and warlocks. At level 60 a Paladin gets a +60 to his resistance in the form of an instant cast, no mana charge, aura that can be changed at any time. I see a mage casting a fire spell which takes forever for them to prepare, I switch to fire resistance, and if the caster is my level or lower, I have a really good chance of resisting that spell.
And for all those slow burn spells, just use your purify to remove the effects (especially poisons and slow effect spells).

For PvP purposes, if you really want to avoid spell damage, buy a set of thorium armor. It gives a grand total of +46 to all resistances, and then you can just use whichever aura you need (usually fire) to avoid most spell damage.

Granted, resitance isn't a sure thing, but I have gone through a number of instances where the level of what I was fighting was just 3 below mine casting shadow spells, and using rank 2 of shadow resistance aura I resisted about 80% of their spells. So imagine what will happen if your resistance is 60 (rank 3) againts like-level foes. The bonus to armor is nice, but not better than ignoring spell damage in a pinch.

The great thing about a paladin is their versatilty. We can be healers, or tanks -- but neither to the point of greatness. However, I switch my style based on the needs at the moment. I keep a 1-handed weapon/shield handy, and a 2-hander ready. When I go after mages, I pull out the two-hander and resistance, for fighters I sword and board it with my devotion aura ready. Pretty simple if you ask me. And since my spell interuption for healing is so low, I don't have any trouble healing myself with multiple aggros in the heat of combat even without going invulnerable (in PvP this has proven easier than I thought it would be).

So basically, a paladin is probably the most adaptable class I've found. We may not excell at anything particularly, but I've been able to adjust to any scenario. The unfortunate thing is that no matter how your "build" looks, I have found that you cannot min/max a paladin.

is this good?

Protection Mastery
Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Redoubt Rank 4
Toughness Rank 5
Blessing of Sanctuary Rank 1
Improved Seal of Fury Rank 4
Shield Specialization Rank 5
Holy Shield Rank 1
Protection Total: 25
Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5
Improved Seal of the Crusader Rank 5
Deflection Rank 5
Anticipation Rank 5
Consecration Rank 1
Retribution Total: 21
Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus Rank 5
Holy Total: 5
Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60

Protection Mastery
Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Toughness Rank 5
Protection Total: 10

Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5
Improved Seal of the Crusader Rank 5
Deflection Rank 5
Vengeance Rank 5
Seal of Command Rank 1
Anticipation Rank 5
Improved Retribution Aura Rank 5
Precision Rank 3
Consecration Rank 1
Conviction Rank 5
Blessing of Kings Rank 1
Retribution Total: 41

Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60

i like this setup for both PVP and PVE i use Thrash Bladeand Crest of Supremacy

Protection Mastery
Improved Devotion Aura 5/5 � if the party is heavily tankers
Toughness 5/5 � increase your tanking abilities
Improved Seal of Fury 5/5 � if you are the primary tank
Shield Specialization 5/5 � used for tanking
Improved Blessing of Freedom 2/5 � needed points for more talents (also nice skill)
Holy Shield 1/1 � better block if tanking for party
Improved Blessing of Salvation 2/2 � good spell to use on DPS classes
Total: 25

Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might 5/5 � cast on primary tank and/or DPS class (rogue)
Total: 5

Holy Mastery
Spiritual Mastery 5/5 � used for healing emergencies or if acting as primary healer
Improved Holy Light 3/3 � used when acting as backup or primary healer
Improved Blessing of Wisdom 5/5 � great for casters of the party
Divine Favor 1/1 � great for emergency heal
Improved Flash of Light 2/3 � needed points for later talents (good for mana saving)
Improved Concentration Aura 3/3 � good for use in caster heavy pary
Divine Wisdom 2/5 � more mana = good
Total: 21

This build is build for the use in any type of party... be it caster heavy or tank heavy or even if you must be the primary tnak or healer... i'm not sure how well this build would do in PvP... but then again, i'm not not big into PvP... i prefer the grouping and socialization of the game... constructive crits are definately welcome...

Never thought I would post a talent build, but..

Protection Mastery
Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Redoubt Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Protection Rank 2
Toughness Rank 5
Improved Seal of Fury Rank 5 - Does this seal actually give a noticable boost to threat? Or do tanks even use this? If not, these 5 points could always go elsewhere.
Shield Specialization Rank 5
Holy Shield Rank 1
Protection Total: 28

Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5
Benediction Rank 5
Deflection Rank 5
Anticipation Rank 5
Consecration Rank 1 - I would think its a must have in order to tank in instances where there are many non-elite adds.
Retribution Total: 21

Holy Mastery
Improved Lay on Hands Rank 2 - Armor buff is nice, since it's main use before was just a full heal. Why not get more AC as well?
Holy Total: 2

For tanking, it would seem. I have a rogue for DPS ;)

Hey

In beta i played a rouge, so im quite used to have frequent swings with my sword. In retail i will play three different characters: A hunter, a druid and a paladin.

Most people see paladins as slow but hardhitting tanks who heals you. But what if you focus on agility (from equipment) instead of strength and armor? Would it be possible to create a fasthitting paladin? Getting 190+ in agility as a paladin will probably not gonna hapen anytime soon. Thats what i had as a rouge at lvl 37. I suppose that i would want to have some mail armor.
I guess i would have to focus on protection aura and a lot of defence in talents.

The result i want is a rouge that doesnt sneak but who can hit pretty hard and being able to take some smack using shield and some mail armor + aura and buffs. And not to forgett, the ability to heal and resurect.

What do you think about this? Silly or just totally stupid? =D
You who have played pala lots, what would you recommend me to focus on in talents?

I must be a freak then because I don't concentrate on "builds" so much as particular talents I want. I've got talent points in all 3 talent branches. I'm probably going to work on Retribution the most just for Blessing of Kings. I go after the things that seem most useful, so I can put more points into the things that give me the most benefit, regardless what branch they're in.

To each his own I suppose.

Is it better to go with one path or mix the best of all 3. Here's the template I was going for. let me know if you do or don't think it is a good idea and why.

Protection Mastery

Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Redoubt Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Protection Rank 2
Toughness Rank 4
Shield Specialization Rank 5
Protection Total: 21

Retribution Mastery

Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization Rank 5
Improved Seal of the Crusader Rank 5
Vengeance Rank 5
Seal of Command Rank 1
Improved Retribution Aura Rank 5
Consecration Rank 1
Retribution Total: 27

Holy Mastery

Improved Holy Light Rank 3
Holy Total: 3

Ive heard in a few places that you can redo all your talents. How?????
Anyone know? Thanks cya.

blah

You can unlearn your talents through any Paladin trainer. It will cost you, however, an increasing amount each time your choose to 'unlearn.'

I have a question for anyone using the Conviction talent pool; how practical has it proven? I know critical hits are affected by your agility, however I can't imagine there are many Paladin builds out there that stress agility over stamina or strength. Thanks in advance for any input.

The idea of a fast hitting high Agility pally is very interesting and could be fun (which is what's important). However, I'm not sure if it would work. Pally's really don't have high DPS which really becomes evident at higher lvls. The added crits would help, but I think a high agi pally would end up being so-so tank with so-so dps, which plays away from out strength (being able to stay alive and keep others alive).

However, it would be interesting to see how it works.

IMO, to be good at your class in this game (no matter what it is) you have to play to and capitalized on your classes strengths. We, as a hybrid class (warrior/priest) don't have an easily laid out strength. However, especially at higher lvls, it becomes farily obvious that our strength lies on our ability to stay alive and keep others alive. Going totally retribution goes against that IMO. That is why my main tree is protection. Otherwise all we are doing is a warrior with crappy dps who uses most of their mana to keep themselves alive while clothies try to run around shielding themselves trying not to die. If you want to remain a contributing factor to a party, I say go protection. However, my experience is comming from a guild with a lot of high lvl, talented (as much as a warrior can be) warriors.

Funny you mention the high agility possibilites. I'm actually choosing to wear Valor over Lightforge for the agility, with a decent amount of crit gear thrown in. I'm retribution based, since my guild needed Blessing of Kings, with the rest spread through what I feel are the essentials of Holy and Protection. My crit% is up to 19% with a lot of agi/crit gear to go. I'm seeing that I'll easily hit 24-25% crit by the time I'm done. This basically keeps me in Vengeance mode all the time, and I'm generally doing right around 200 dps as according to the Cosmos dps counter. Paladins are almost always among the last of the classes to be attacked in group pvp. With these decent dps and the cover of the paladin class, I imagine it'll be a great pvp build as well as more dps in a raid. Also, if you wait till you crit for vengeance to activate, stun a player in place, then pop consecration while you continue attacking, it can be devastating damage coming from a class that's not known for their fast dps capabilities.

Mazeryn
60 Paladin <Dawn Eternal> Cenarius

I am getting close to lvl 60 (currently lvl 59) and want to rebuild my talents. Once I cleanup the talents do I need to repurchase all upgrades from the trainer again?

Thanks

Added Comment:
If you reset your talent tree you will need to repurchase all upgrades from the pally trainer that start on the skill tree like Seal of Command.
I found a good website that allows you to play with different talent setting. Here is the link: http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Talents.View&category;_select_id=12

i hate a troll shaman and i can own any palli my lvl unless they use that thing were they gain full health. people think aplli are overpowered and they kinda r i think that shaman should be able to use swords and polearms and that is only unbalanced thing

Ok i have been thinking of this build for a while now. I currently have a ret pally with BOK but i am not sure if blessing of kings is worth the 31 ret skills needed for it. I have a two handed sword and i also have a sword/shiled combo i use for tanking. The other ret skills are great but i think the point could be better spent somewhere else maybe. Here is what i got.

Proect:
Devo Aura 5 ranks
Redoubt 5 ranks
Toughness 5 ranks
Shield Spec. 5 ranks
Holy Shield 1 rank

Ret:
Blessing of Might 5 ranks
Seal of Crusader 5 ranks
Vengence 5 ranks
Seal of Command 1 ranks
Deflection 5 ranks
Precision 3 ranks
Concecration 1 rank
Conviction 5 ranks

The questions i have are about skills i have not used before.
Is holy shield worth getting? If it isnt i would drop holy shield and probably shield spec. and pick up BOK and spiritual focus.
I started some skills in the holy talent tree recently and know the usual combo of improved holy light/spirtuil focus, illumination, and divine favor. How useful is this combo?
My other build combo would look like this incase of holy

Holy:
Improved Holy Light 3 ranks
Spirtuil focus 2 ranks
Illumination 5 ranks
Divine Favor 1 rank

Protec:
Devo Aura 5 ranks
Redoubt 5 ranks
Toughness 5 ranks

Ret:
Blessing of Might 5 ranks
Seal of Crusader 5 ranks
Seal of Command 1 rank
Vengence 5 ranks
Deflection 5 ranks
Precision 3 ranks
Concecration 1 rank

What do you fellow pallys think?

why would some one go half and half in pal's talent tree? Its either all or nothing in our build guys. Either u go all the way Defense + devine favor. Or go all retri+ devine favor. I been lvl 60 for over a month now, personally I like holy build. If u want damamge +5 critical is a must!!!. If u go protection, reputance is a must!!!. I pick holy build cuz I like the burst damage vs retri's 5% critical. I have everything retri build has except 5% critical and the king. But bless of might is better than king in PVP duel. Since it gives extra 8 dps persec over king. Holy shock gives u extra 400 damage instant, thats like extra seal of command if it proc. Just think of this way, in the end u will have ur doomsaw which proc 400 damage. ur normal attack with doomsaw gives u 300 + damage. If ur command proc gives u 400 to 800 damage depend on critical. Holy shock gives u 400 damage + with 12% vengence. + 6 sec stun that gives u extra hit at least. Do the math, (400 + 300 + 400 + 400) + 6 sec stun + devine sheild (12 secs) that gives u over 2000 damage!!!. Any one has HP less than half, they better watch out:)

OMG this new patch practicaly KILLED pallies its stupid dmg reduce with seal of crusader!!! i know it said it before but now they made it happen cmon this is BS now whats the point of the skill even it is faster why use?? when dmg reduce.....

rightousness, here i come

Is anyone else having trouble with the Blessing of Might talent? I have rank three, so it should give 64 extra points, but when I look at the spell to the left of the minimap, it says I only get 55.

If you reset your talents you will need to repurchase all upgrades to the skills that start on the talent tree like Seal of Command.
I found a good website that allows you to play with different talent setting. Here is the link: http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Talents.View&category;_select_id=12

If you reset your talent tree you will need to repurchase all upgrades from the pally trainer that start on the skill tree like Seal of Command.
I found a good website that allows you to play with different talent setting. Here is the link: http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Talents.View&category;_select_id=12

If you rebuilt the talent tree you will need to repurchase upgrades to skills that start on the talent tree (like Seal of Command).
Here is the website I found useful to play with different talent tree settings http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Talents.View&category;_select_id=12

as for change of seal of crusader, well, it was OBVIOUSLY a BUG and EVERY paladin KNEW that if they can read.

First, this is what I am going for in my talent build.

Retribution Mastery:

Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5
Benediction Rank 5
Improved Seal of the Crusader Rank 5
Vengeance Rank 5
Seal of Command Rank 1
Improved Retribution Aura Rank 5
Consecration Rank 1
Conviction Rank 5
Blessing of Kings Rank 1
Retribution Total: 33

Holy Mastery:

Improved Lay on Hands Rank 2
Spiritual Focus Rank 5
Improved Holy Light Rank 3
Revelation Rank 2
Illumination Rank 5
Divine Favor Rank 1
Holy Total: 18

Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60

I think the pts in Holy are needed to survive....IMO

Yes with the bug begin fixed the pally has to think of their spell casting. We all took advantage of it but now we have to play the way it was meant to be.......

Now I personally use this for a combo: I cast Crusade (get a couple of fast hits) use judgement (to cause extra holy damage) then cast Command and depending on there lvl or how many are on me I cast Consecration while using my Ret aura.....

So far am lvl 42 and holding my own pretty good.....I have mainly used 1h wpn and shield but I switch to 2h wpn for damage in certain situations and when I switch to 2h wpn I usually switch to Dev aura.....

Feedback appreciated

Protection Mastery
Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Redoubt Rank 5
Blessing of Sanctuary Rank 1 Must get.. For all those warlocks that like to use Curse of Weakness
Shield Specialization Rank 4
Protection Total: 15

Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5
Benediction Rank 5
Vengeance Rank 5
Seal of Command Rank 1
Anticipation Rank 3
Improved Retribution Aura Rank 5
Consecration Rank 1
Conviction Rank 5
Blessing of Kings Rank 1 I think BoK is the best blessing. At lvl 60 you can have up to 20 extra of each stat.
Retribution Total: 31
Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus Rank 5 This is also a must have... If you are fighting a shaman and you used your immunities to heal, this will help you heal with out them giving you 70% not to be interupted. Lay on hands is your LAST resort when you are close to running out of mana.
Holy Total: 5
Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60

Shamans are way more overpowered... They have stupid shocks that INSTANTLY do 500 dmg and they cool down in 6 secs.. If they are talented the shocks do more DMG and cool down faster... Shamans don't need polearms you idiot, they have daggers... Any smart shaman would use a dagger, but from what I saw on my server they are stupid newbs. If a Pally could use a dagger then I would say they are overpowered, but they can't. A lvl 60 Pally has a slim chance of living against a lvl 60 Shaman, and if the Shaman is about to die, he turns into his little bitch form and runs away. So if you can't kill a pally and you are a Shaman.. Put a shotgun in your mouth and pull the trigger with you toe.

Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Redoubt Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Protection Rank 2
Toughness Rank 5
Blessing of Sanctuary Rank 1
Improved Seal of Fury Rank 2
Shield Specialization Rank 5
Improved Seal of Justice Rank 5
Reckoning Rank 5
Holy Shield Rank 1
One-Handed Weapon Specialization Rank 5
Repentance Rank 1
Protection Total: 42
Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might Rank 4
Retribution Total: 4
Holy Mastery
Improved Lay on Hands Rank 2
Improved Holy Light Rank 3
Holy Total: 5
Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60

Could someone show me the best PVP pally? And I was wondering if pallies should use a 1h with shield for dueling or 2h, someone told me that the point of pallies in duels are to outlast the enemy, thus shields are better...I also saw that Hand of Edward the Odd gives a 4 second or less spell IC, this would be crazy for holy light, Any suggestions for talent builds?

Is it worth it just to be able to take mages?

There is no point in Protection pally now. There is no way u can out last any one in duel if they play smart. That means u will never be able to kill any one with protection pally. Vs mage, they can sheep u can bandage/drink/eat. Vs Warlock, they can fear/charm u and bandage/drink/eat. Vs rogue, they can just chain lockdown u and gouge run and get their health back. Vs Druid, lol their regeneration in bear form is faster than u can kill them:) If you are planning to go Proc, the only good thing is go group pvp and be the plate healer:)(dont do this unless u are lvl 60 and have the best gear in game) Proc pal is very very good in group PVP when u try to clean/heal/buff ur teammate. The only way to kill other is either go retri or holydin. Retri is good vs rogue, and group PVE. Holydin will lose to rogue if they play right, but vs all other class, holyshock is better in most cases. This is from a LVL 60 pal that duel and raid almost every night.:) I was a proctection pally until they nurfed our crusade. 2H with command is a much if u planning to Duel:) ok have fun playing Seal of command is a must now :) and plz dont use ur 1h with it.

Repentence is useless vs Mage, A good mage can use iceshield and deactive it to get out of repentance. U wont even have time to do a divine heal, and they can counter spell u right after they get out of ice block. With Iceshield it makes repentence useless. Vs all other class it is still good to use it either to heal or catch up.

Protection Mastery
Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Redoubt Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Protection Rank 2
Toughness Rank 5
Blessing of Sanctuary Rank 1
Shield Specialization Rank 5
Reckoning Rank 5
Holy Shield Rank 1
Protection Total: 29
Retribution Mastery
Benediction Rank 5
Improved Seal of the Crusader Rank 5
Deflection Rank 5
Seal of Command Rank 1
Anticipation Rank 5
Consecration Rank 1
Retribution Total: 22
Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60

5 - Blessing of Might
5 - 2H Weapon
5 - Vengence
5 - Deflection
5 - Anticipation
1 - Seal of Command
3 - Precision
1 - Consecration
5 - Conviction
= 35 Retribution Points

5 - Devotion Aura
5 - Toughness
= 10 Protection Points

5 - Spiritual Focus
= 5 Holy Points

I sacrificed Mana and Defense on High Damage. With Crusader Judgement, Seal of Command, and a 50+ DPS 2H Axe I can easily do High Damage... Wtih a Vengence, Seal of Command Hit, and a Critical I can get 1500+Dmg... One Time i get 2 1500+Dmg, Hammer of Justice, and Consecration with a Duel on a Mage (Level 60) and lasted less then 5 seconds... It's all by chance tho... it is rare to get 1500+Dmg but it usually comes when u really need it. My Regular hits do 250 - 300 dmg and my Command hits do about 300 - 1100 holy dmg. I am only a level 56 Paladin. Although if i dont get any critcals and no command hits I get into a little trouble but its rare.

Combatmedic -Lightbourne server-

My Armor is all Stamina and Strength... I am practicly an Offensive Warrior who can heal himself and have Holy Sheilds.

Whats the point of having Devotion Aura and toughness? Isnt divine favor 10x better? u get a free full heal boss.

I have Devotion Aura to help out my Guild members in Raids.... and the Divine Favor I dont really need cuz our guild has healers. I set my talent points according to what they my Party needs.

Just an okay DPS build, more focused on doing damage and keeping people alive than helping with their defense and all that other protection stuff.

Protection Mastery
Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Protection Rank 1
Protection Total: 6
Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5
Benediction Rank 1
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization Rank 4
Improved Seal of the Crusader Rank 5
Deflection Rank 1
Vengeance Rank 5
Seal of Command Rank 1
Anticipation Rank 1
Improved Retribution Aura Rank 1
Consecration Rank 1
Conviction Rank 5
Blessing of Kings Rank 1
Retribution Total: 31
Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus Rank 2
Improved Holy Light Rank 3
Revelation Rank 2
Illumination Rank 5
Improved Blessing of Wisdom Rank 1
Divine Favor Rank 1
Holy Total: 14
Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60

Ah, by the way, that build is for primarily soloing, but I may team up with a friend of mine who plans on running a shadow priest.

I was looking at the talents and couldnt really decided on which tree to focus on since they all have some strong and weak talents. Planned out this approach, but Im wondering if its too spread out. I primarily was aiming for the most protection while still keeping the "one free cast" holy talent effect:

Protection Mastery

5 Improved Devotion (25% to devo aura)
5 Redoubt (30% chance to block when critical hit)
5 Toughness (10% to armor value)
5 Shield Specialization (25% to shield absorb)

20 points total

Retribution Mastery

5 Improved Blessing of Might (20% atk power to Blessing of Might)
5 Improved Seal of Crusader (15% dmg to Seal or Crusader)
5 Deflection (5% to chance to parry)
5 Anticipation (10 to defense rating)

20 points total

Holy Mastery

5 Spiritual Focus (70% chance not to lose casting time)
5 Illumnation (100% chance for free heal on critical heal for holy light/flash of light)
1 Divine Favor (next holy light/flast of light will be be critical heal)

I dont know, with the lack of any real "great" great end talent, I thought this build would go more with the idea of paladins not really excelling in anything. Any comments?

5 = Blessing of Might
5 = 2H Weapon
5 = Vengence
5 = Deflection
5 = Conviction
3 = Precision
1 = Seal of Command
1 = Consecretion
Total = 30 Retri

I took out Crusader since they nerfed it but I kept all the Damage that Retri Gives you. Any extra damage depends all on gear and of course skill. I took out Aticipation cuz I can always heal myself and use Divine Sheild. Can still get a 1500+ dmg with a critical and Command with 1 hit if you have a 51+ DPS 2 hand weapon. HINT: Command Rank 1 Does the same Damage as Command Rank 5 unless you gonna cast Judgement.

5 = Devo Aura
2 = Blessing of Protection
3 = Toughness
Total = 10 Protection

I put 2 talent points on Blessing of Protection cuz it reduces cooldown by 120 seconds (2 minutes) and the left over on Toughness. HINT: YOU CAN CAST BLESSING OF PROTECTION WHILE STUNNED!

3 = Holy Light
2 = Lay of Hands
5 = Illumination
1 = Divine Favor
Total = 11 Holy

Level 60 Paladin...

I took out focus because a smart player that you are dueling usually stuns you when they start to see you heal and you usually heal yourself when u cast Divine Sheild or Blessing of Protection on yourself anyways. My Goal in the Holy Tree was to get Divine Favor which gives your next Heal a 100% critical affect when activited

It's not an all around Paladin and it's not the best but I wanted a Paladin who can do High Dmg but can heal himself a little. This build is great for soloing tho but any decent paladin can solo.

I got this from my Guild Mumber (Stunrm) who owns me in Duels.

Any more Hints or comments you guys give me real be greatly appreciated.

-Combatmedic- White Rabbit Guild

Protection Mastery
Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Redoubt Rank 5
Toughness Rank 5
Shield Specialization Rank 5
Reckoning Rank 5
Holy Shield Rank 1
Protection Total: 26

Protection Summary:
This build is obviously for a defensive one-handed with shield paladin. Holy Shield is an amazing spell. The recast is a bit annoying, but a free load of damage with 4 extra blocks every 10 seconds is just too good. The improved devotion and toughness are obvious choices, and I'm a fan of redoubt for getting the required points to Shield Spec, another obvious choice. Reckoning seemed like a good idea also: a free attack after every critical strike seems like a big plus for the extra 5 points, since you have enough points in Protection anyways.

Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5
Improved Seal of the Crusader Rank 5
Deflection Rank 4
Retribution Total: 14

Retribution Summary:
This is just a dump of leftover points. I always use Blessing of Might and most often use SoC, so those are good choices. The deflection points are a good 4% extra block, just 4 points because they were my last choice with my leftover points.

Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus Rank 5
Illumination Rank 5
Divine Favor Rank 1
Holy Total: 11

Holy Summary:
Spiritual Focus is a fantastic spell and a must have for anyone. The improved heal is pretty good too, but I just didn't think it was worth the points. The illumination/divine favor combination is a hell of a combo also. So there, every 2 minutes u have a critical heal that costs heals your mana back and is mostly uninterupted. Pretty powerful.

Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60

This is the build of a one-handed tank. I think it's pretty good. Please leave me some insight, thanks.

rank 5 redoubt 30% to block after crit strike + holy shield 30% to block = 60% block and extra dmg

Is this true? :)

and how can you tell how much your strength adds to your block?

I think. Anyway, I re-worked my build a bit, because more armor is always good.

Protection Mastery
Improved Devotion Aura Rank 3
Protection Total: 3
Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5
Benediction Rank 5
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization Rank 5
Improved Seal of the Crusader Rank 5
Deflection Rank 1
Vengeance Rank 5
Seal of Command Rank 1
Improved Retribution Aura Rank 1
Consecration Rank 1
Conviction Rank 1
Blessing of Kings Rank 1
Retribution Total: 31
Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus Rank 5
Improved Holy Light Rank 3
Revelation Rank 2
Illumination Rank 5
Divine Favor Rank 1
Improved Flash of Light Rank 1
Holy Total: 17
Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60

2H weap with high max DMG + SoC + crit chance talents + Agi Items = Rogue wearing Plate

No, really, the possible damage output with a slow 2H weap, Seal of Command and a little luck (crit+holy crit) can instakill same lvl cloth, i love it

Seal of Command or Seal of the Crusader?

Since the nerf I've debated whether I should use it(seal of the Crusader) anymore.

lvl 44 here and mostly protection atm....thinking of going retribution.

Holy Talents (8 points)

Spiritual Focus - 5/5 points
Gives your Flash of Light and Holy Light spells a 70% chance to not lose casting time when you take damage.

Improved Holy Light - 3/3 points
Increases the amount healed by your Holy Light spell by 12%.

Protection Talents (5 points)

Improved Devotion Aura - 5/5 points
Increases the armor bonus of your Devotion Aura by 25%.

Retribution Talents (22 points)

Benediction - 5/5 points
Reduces the Mana cost of your Retribution spells by 15%.

Two-Handed Weapon Specialization - 5/5 points
Increases the damage you deal with two-handed melee weapons by 5%.

Deflection - 5/5 points
Increases your Parry chance by 5%.

Seal of Command - 1/1 point
Fills the Paladin with the spirit of command for 30 seconds, giving the Paladin a chance to deal additional Holy damage equal to the damage of the Paladin's weapon. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time.

Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy for 30 seconds, causing 24 Holy damage any time the enemy becomes stunned. Only one Judgement per Paladin can be active at any one time.

Vengeance - 5/5 points
Gives you a 15% bonus to Physical and Holy damage you deal for 8 seconds after dealing a critical strike.

Consecration - 1/1 point
Consecrates the land beneath the Paladin, doing 120 Holy damage over 8 seconds to enemies who enter the area.

im a 22 pally do you think that 1946 ac is good for my lvl

Im new to being a palaidn, so what do you think of this talent line

Improved Devotion Aura Rank 5
Toughness Rank 5
Protection Total: 10
Retribution Mastery
Benediction Rank 5
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization Rank 5
Deflection Rank 5
Vengeance Rank 5
Seal of Command Rank 1
Precision Rank 3
Consecration Rank 1
Conviction Rank 5
Blessing of Kings Rank 1
Retribution Total: 31
Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus Rank 5
Improved Holy Light Rank 3
Revelation Rank 2
Holy Total: 10
Total
Total Points Spent: 51
Level Required: 60
?

There's a caveat to this: 99% of my leveling on my Paladin is duo with another Paladin who uses 2-handers and is doing a total Retribution build. As a result, my build is going to provide tanking while still being able to put out a decent chunk of damage. I use 1h/shield exclusively... which in itself will nerf my damage quite a bit but armor from shields is just too attractive for me to give it up for only 7-8 more dps from a 2-hander...

Protection Mastery
Redoubt Rank 5
Toughness Rank 5
Shield Specialization Rank 5
Improved Seal of Justice Rank 5
Reckoning Rank 3
Holy Shield Rank 1
Protection Total: 24

Retribution Mastery
Benediction Rank 5
Improved Seal of the Crusader Rank 5
Vengeance Rank 5
Seal of Command Rank 1
Anticipation Rank 5
Consecration Rank 1
Retribution Total: 22

Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus Rank 5
Holy Total: 5

I'd call it perfect for what I'm trying to accomplish except there's just no way for me to get the last 2 points into Reckoning, without giving up Consecration, Seal of Command, or Spiritual Focus. Oh well, eventually the level caps will go up and we'll all get to spend more than just 51 talent points. (*croses fingers*)

Dunno if somenone has asked before, but coudnt see it in the threats above. So woudnt that be a cool combo? With the imoproved SoJ the proc should be higher to get the effect than with any other seal & everytime u hit (u get the 2 secs stun &) JoCommand deals extra dmg. Otherwise if u use judgemnet of the crusader with seal of righteousness it hits less often but deals more dmg if it hits (though it never seems that JoCrusader uses its full up to X dmg effect) - so does it deal overall more or less dmg? And even it deals more dmg it doesnt have free stun, which i think is totally annoying in PvP especially vs Mages etc.

So what u think?

edit: Whats up with this limit of 3 Stuns - is it a bug? That would of course screw ISoJ + JoCommand

I am a dwarf paladin, and i really dont know what i should use?! a two-handed weapon or a one handed weapon with a shield????
I know if choose shield, then i would be more a tank, but i have really seen many tanks with a two handed weapon.
And do i learn good talents with two handed weapons like shield?
It would be really nice if someone could help me out here ^_^

Hey fellow pallys. The way i've been raising my talents is all at once. Soemtimes i raise holly, sometimes protection, and so on. I tried to keep it all fairly equal so i dont leave anything out. Is it worse this way?
Should i specialise in say..... retribution.... and when i have it prety high then i start adding talents in some other path?

Gimme a hint here, i havent played any beta :)

Originally I went with 5 pts in Crusade but that seems totaly useless now and I have taken those 5 and put 3 in 2h Wpn Specialization and the other 2 over to Holly. I haven't done anything for protection what so ever and I can hold my own in about any situation. Only time I have found myself totally done for is when I hit 10+ lvls higher then me.

I switch between a 2H wpn when I need to be doing damage to a 1H wpn and shield when I need to be the tank. I think that ppl totally underestimate holy.

[b]Retribution Mastery[b/]
Improved Blessing of Might Rank 5
Benediction Rank 5
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization Rank 3
Vengeance Rank 5
Seal of Command Rank 1
Improved Retribution Aura Rank 5
Consecration Rank 1
Conviction Rank 5
Blessing of Kings Rank 1
Retribution Total: 31

[b]Holy Mastery [b/]
Improved Lay on Hands Rank 2
Spiritual Focus Rank 5
Improved Holy Light Rank 3
Revelation Rank 2
Illumination Rank 5
Divine Favor Rank 1
Holy Total: 18

Total Points Spent: 49
Level Required: 58

Just my 2 cents

Retribution Mastery

Benediction
Rank 5/5
Reduces the Mana cost of your Retribution spells by 15%.

Cheaper spells will be useful for seals and judgements, as the mana saved can be used for healing in a pinch, or stunning, if really needed.

Improved Seal of the Crusader
Rank 5/5
Increases the Attack Power bonus of your Seal of the Crusader and the Holy damage increase of your Judgement of the Crusader by 15%.

Useful for getting more swings in for those much-needed criticals with a two-hander. Somewhat useful for the holy damage, if there are any holy-specced priests around.

Deflection
Rank 5/5
Increases your Parry chance by 5%.

When I had my level 14 Paladin (which was deleted when I changed servers, but oh well. It's only like 4 hours of work), I was parrying maybe 1/10 attacks. Another 5% is 3/20, which isn't much, but it's going to be better at higher levels.

Vengeance
Rank 5/5
Gives you a 15% bonus to Physical and Holy damage you deal for 8 sec after dealing a critical strike.

This one is pretty much a given in all the paladin builds I've seen that are geared towards getting criticals.

Seal of Command
Rank 1/1
55 Mana
Instant cast
Fills the Paladin with the spirit of command for 30 sec, giving the Paladin a chance to deal additional Holy damage equal to the damage of the Paladin's weapon. Only one Seal can be active on the Paladin at any one time. Unleashing this Seal's energy will judge an enemy for 30 sec, causing 24 Holy damage anytime the enemy becomes stunned. Only one Judgement per Paladin can be active at any one time.

Unless it's Crusader, which I don't always use, I'll be using this shield. Combined with Hammer of Justice, that's 24 free, unabsorbable damage, plus whatever else stuns the target (hello, rogues :D).

Precision
Rank 3/3
Increases your chance to hit with melee weapons by 3%.

More to-hit%. Obvious.

Consecration
Rank 1/1
200 Mana
Instant cast 8 sec cooldown
Consecrates the land beneath Paladin, doing 120 Holy damage over 8 sec to enemies who enter the area.

This is for casting at the start of a fight, and casting whenever I need to cast it again later on during the fight. Yeah, it's not much, but it's like a free swing.

Conviction
Rank 5/5
Increases your chance to get a critical strike with melee weapons by 5%.

Criticals are really needed for a decent dps paladin build. I guess it's viable, if not extremely hard to rely on.

Blessing of Kings
Rank 1/1
64 Mana 30 yd range
Instant cast
Places a Blessing on the friendly target, increasing total stats by 10% for 5 min. Players may only have one Blessing on them per Paladin at any one time.

Since I don't really put any other blessings on myself, I might as well use this one. 10% is a bit. Is that base stats, or stats with gear and all that?

Retribution Total: 31

Holy Mastery

Improved Lay on Hands
Rank 2/2
Gives the target of your Lay on Hands spell a 30% bonus to their armor value from items for 1 min.

Bringing a target from the brink of death is good, especially since that target is either myself or a caster, which means they're at max life (I've never seen casters with more life than paladins). The 30% boost to armor for 1 minute is damned good, because that means they take less damage for that 1 minute, in which hopefully everything will be dead.

Spiritual Focus
Rank 5/5
Gives your Flash of Light and Holy Light spells a 70% chance to not lose casting time when you take damage.

I can't think of any reason why anyone sane wouldn't want to take this spell. This pretty much eliminates the need to shield before healing (which I have to do at lower levels :( ). You can heal yourself to full (at 60) in max 4 castings, so that's max 13 seconds (allowing a second dur to lag and what not) you're out of the fight, not 6 and only at half life. Plus, with the next talent, it's an even more effective heal.

Improved Holy Light
Rank 3/3
Increases the amount healed by your Holy Light spell by 12%.

Our main healing spell, just more effective. Neato.

Revelation
Rank 2/2
Reduces the cooldown of your Lay on Hands and Divine Intervention spells by 20 min.

This means I can use it three times when you can only use it two. Since a lot of instances and raids are longer than one hour, that's one more person I can keep alive for that much longer :D

Illumination
Rank 5/5
After getting a critical effect from your Flash of Light or Holy Light spell, gives you a 100% chance to gain Mana equal to the base cost of the spell.

Sweet, a free spell every two minutes.

Divine Favor
Rank 1/1
60 Mana
Instant cast 2 min cooldown
When activated, gives your next Flash of Light or Holy Light spell a 100% critical effect chance.

Sweet, a free critical heal every two minutes.

Holy Total: 18

Total Points Spent: 49
Level Required: 58

Hey look, two points for... whatever!

Hi iam gonna play with a two-hand mace and iam thinking of spending my talent points like this.
please tell me if i should do something different

Protection
Improved Devotion Aura 5 Points
Toughness 5 points
Blessing of Sanctuary 1 poit
Total: 11

Retribution Mastery
Improved Blessing of Might 5 points
Two-Handed Weapon Specialization 5 points
Improved Seal of the Crusader 5 points
Deflection 5 points
Seal of Command 1 point
Anticipation 5 points
Precision 3 points
Consecration 1 point
Blessing of Kings 1 point
Total: 31

Holy Mastery
Spiritual Focus 4 Points
Improved Holy Light 3 points
Revelation 2 points
Total: 9

All tankers your weapon:

Hand of Edward the Odd

Make sure that you get the free crit-heal on an earlier level !

It says it would increase holy dmg taken by up to XX. So it should work with Seal of Rightousness, Seal of Command, Holy Shield, Consecration, Exorcism, Holy Shock, Holy Wrath, Retribution Aura.

As far as i know it doesnt work with Seal of Command, Holy Shield (not 100% sure) & Retribution Aura.

It works with Seal of Rightousness, but never adds it full up to XX dmg, only a small amount. Does it add % of the original dmg?

The rest i dont know.

Is it a bug that it works so weird? Or is it intended & the tooltip just suxx bad?

And does someone know the overall dmg increase of Seal of the Crusader? Is it worth to invest the 5 points in Improved Seal of the Crusader?

Hope someone can help...

When I unleashed Seal of Righteousness after I judged it (and at level 8, it took a long time to find a mob that lasted 15 seconds), it did like 14 damage instead of 12. I guess it worked..

jeah i know it works with SoR, but that wasnt the question :D