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DUNE, 7th book

Dune is Frank Herbert's bestselling SF novel, which was followed by another five books. Although some felt that the sequels did not match-up with the first book, others came to the conclusion that his latter books got deeper and deeper, and are much better.

Almost everyone who has read all the books, will agree with me, that of all the books in the series, the sixth book gives the strongest suggestion that the story is not yet finished, because it ends with a real cliffhanger.

Disclaimer: Although much of what follows below is based on facts from the books, I acknowledge that it also contains my interpretations. In order to write an interesting plot, an author takes great care in revealing the facts bits by bits. Only a careful rereading of a book can result in a good overview of the facts.
Spoiler warning: This and related pages contain materials which could spoil your fun in reading the books, and figuring out things by yourself.

Was there going to be a 7th book?

I have always believed that last two books that Frank Herbert wrote before his death were going to be part of a trilogy, and that he already had written down the global outline of the third book of that trilogy. Although not everybody agrees on the issue whether he was going to write more books, almost everybody feels that no one can replace him in doing so. For a long time it was the firm belief of his son, Brian Herbert, that we should allow the completed works speak for themselves. Or to quote Herbert from the books himself:

Some people believe that there was not going to be another book, as they have come to the conclusion that Daniel and Marty at the end of the last book, are Frank and Beverly in disguise, especially from reading the last sentence of the book, where Daniel says:

And although this interpretation is strengthed by the Eulogy for Beverly by Frank in the back of the book, it would not surprise me, that he has put this in, with the thought in mind that he might not be able to finish his last book in the series. The death of Beverly might have been too much for him.

The definite answer on this issue was given in the official Dune books web site, where it says:

Brain Herbert and Kevin Anderson

The latest news is that Brian and Kevin announced that writing DUNE 7 will be their next project, after they finish the "Legends of Dune" trilogy. (For some time they had the idea to write another trilogy some where in the middle.) According to what Brian Herbert wrote about the the story behind "Dune: House Atreides", Frank Herbert had left behind literally thousands of pages of notes, ideas, and sketches. The very latest news says that DUNE 7 will consist of two books with the tentative titles "Hunters of Dune" and "Sandworms of Dune". The first book is to be expected at September 2005. (Note that the title of the second book is rather similar to "Worms of Dune", a title that was already suggested on this page more than seven years ago.)

There are many Dune fans who state that Brian would have done us a greater favour by publishing his father's notes, than writing additional novels together with Kevin J. Anderson. Although Brain and Kevin deny this, their are many Dune fans that are not very happy with the novels that they have produced so far, and consider their working as cheap novels, not literary S.F. works like the books written by Frank Herbert. I am among these people, and I do not consider their additions as canonical.

Omnius

The greatest fear that I have is that Brain and Kevin are going to deviate from the complete outline for DUNE 7 that Frank Herbert wrote, to include elements from their own novel, only for the purpose of making those novels sound more canonicial. Several people already have suggested that GP Omnius might be the Enemy that has driven the Honored Matres back from the Scattering. It is said in the book "Dune: The Butlerian Jihad" at some point that the GP Omnius sends copies of himself into the far reaches of space. He is destroyed soon afterwards and cannot share that information, so no one really knows. Another suggestion is found on page 374 of "Dune: House Corrino," where D'murr Pilru the Navigator, gasps out to Prince Rhombur about "No time... Threat...outside force... evl... drawing closer...beyond the Imperium Ancient enemy...future enemy. The enemy has seen us."

I have to say I find the idea that Frank Herbert had already thought out this character GP Omnius and was going to introduce it in his last book, rather odd, especially, because it conflicts with the idea of the Golden Path. It is clearly that the Scattering was going to surpass all previous scatterings in order to avoid the destruction of mankind. It is suggested in "The God Emperor of Dune" that this destruction is caused by machines. But no where in the original series is there a suggestion that these machines were related to the "thinking machines" of Butlarian Jihad. The use of "seeking machines" might suggest a link to "hunter-seekers" developed by Ixians, as explained on Wikipedia: Golden Path. (I do have to say that I do have problems with Brain and Kevins intepretation of the Butlarian Jihad as being a physical war between man and machines, and not a religious war to ban out the use of powerful computers.) Please remember that both Paul and Leto II could see in the far future, and thus would have seen the copies that GP Omnius has send into the far reaches of space. I also do not see how it could fit in "The bitter medicine of a Sheeana future?" as Murbella sees it. Furthermore, the last book strongly suggests that Daniel and Marty are the Enemy, or at least others of their kind.

From this interview one can already conclude that they are not going try to follow the outline as closely as possible. During this Brain said:

To me Brain and Kevin will lose their credibility if they do include elements from their own books and do not decide to publish Frank Herberts outline in some form, preferable as an appendix of this "seventh book", such that we can verify that these elements were indeed original invented by Frank Herbert himself.

The Dune Chronicals

Looking at how the Dune series is spread out over time, we see that the first three books play in the same time frame, each separated by only few decennia at most. The fourth book however takes place about 3500 years after the first three books. And the fifth book takes place about 1500 years after that. The sixth book follows shortly after the fifth. In a sense, the last two books are the closest together with respect to the story line. Supposing the seventh book would follow the sixth closely, the series can be seen as two trilogies with one central book to connected them. This results in the following structure:
  1. Dune
  2. Dune Messiah
  3. Children of Dune
  4. God Emperor of Dune
  5. The heretics of Dune
  6. Chapterhouse: Dune
  7. ... Dune ...
Alternatively, the seventh book could have been placed in the far future, maybe another 2000 years later. But there is reason to believe that Herbert had three book closely following each other in mind, when he started writing the fifth book.

Idaho and Sheeana

The two central persons in the last two books, in my opinion, are Duncan Idaho and Sheeana Burgh. All the others, how important they may appear, are not at the core of the story. Both of them are `created' by the Tyrant. Sheeana is the long awaited (and prophesied about) person, who can `speak' with the worms, inwhich there is a pearl of consciousness of the Tyrant. From this we might conclude, that he choose her, a long time ago by creating a prophesy about her, and then picking her. It was also the Tyrant, who by making a ghola of original Duncan Idaho over and over, assigned such an importance to him, that he would be made into a ghola over and over again.

The Bene Gesserit plan was to bring them together (breed them), and through the loyalty of Idaho to the Atreides (now the BG), control Sheeana. But their attempt in controlling history, as they wanted to do before when creating the Kwisatz Haderach, failed again. Finally, at the end of Chapterhouse: Dune, Duncan Idaho and Sheeana are together outside the control of the BG. In my opinion, the seventh book should continue their story, with Sheeana being the main character.

Murbella

At the end of Chapterhouse: Dune, Murbella is left behind on Chapterhouse, as being the joined head of both the Bene Gesserit and the Honoured Matres, who outnumber the BG at least 10000 times. Although it will not be an easy merge, I think they will merge at the end, and there is not much of a story in this. Other things, which might be interesting, are the children of Murbella and Duncan Idaho. Will they share his abilities to see the net? And maybe have his memories? (It still surprises me that the BG did not manage to get at least one cell from Duncan before he disappeared with Sheeana.) Murbella, when thinking about Duncan's escape, remark: `He thinks he's escaped!'. I wonder whether one of their children going to be able to contact Duncan again through the latent net awareness.

It is also likely they will create another ghola (clone) from Teg, as analysis of the last battles might give significant proof that he did have special abilities. The BG are clever enough to figure out that Teg did fool them, although they missed it during the heat of the battle. To breed Teg with one of Duncan's children is also something I would try in the long run.

Another interesting story-line might be on how they find out about Daniel and Marty, and all the other kind of powers from the Scattering. There is reason to believe, in my opinion, that it where Daniel and Marty (or others of their kind) who send the Honoured Matres back to the Old Empire. But for what reason?

But most clearly, Murbella is aware of the bitter medicine of Sheeana, what ever that may be (see the forlast chapter of Chapterhouse: Dune). And, of course, her goals should be to prepare the BG/HM for this medicine, which might proof to be a bigger challenge than merging the two sisterhoods together.

Daniel and Marty, the Master Face Dancers

The phrase `Master Face Dancers' comes from Paul Wouters, and gives a good description of what they are: some kind of advanced face dancers, which have become free individuals (masters of their own). They share the ability of the New Face Dancers, made by the original Tleilaxu, to make memory prints of other individuals, or in other words to take other personas (as Daniel says it). The books do not indicate where they are coming from. It is my opinion that they were created by some Bene Tleilax in the Scattering, as it idea that they escaped the original Beme Tleilax, without them knowing, seems unlikely to me. Note that also the New Face Dancer that replaced Tuek in Heretics of Dune starts to act on his own, and was slipping out of control of the BT. After all, the might not be so different from the New Face Dancers created in the Old Empire, except that they got the possibility to complete break free from their masters.

But Daniel and Marty also have the additional ability to manipulate Techys, the particles by which space can be folded in a new way. By this they are able to see from a far distance, and to manipulate non-ships in folded space. One could conclude that Marty does not have this ability to control no-ships in folded space. These additional abilities allow them to effectively control big groups of people. They also seem to have an extended knowledge of all kinds of technology ranging from miniature Holtzmann generators to Futars.

It is not clear, how many of these Master Face Dancers there are, and how much of the people in the Scattering they control. Also, it is not clear what their goals are. Do they want to control the Old Empire? Did they send the Honoured Matres back into the Old Empire, and if so, why? They seemed to know the BG as well as they knew the HM, and dislike the BG too. Did they create the Futars? What is their relationship to the handlers of the Futars, which also seem to be some kind of Face Dancers.

Sheeana Burgh

Based on the thoughts of Murbella (originating from Odrade) as given at the end of the forlast chapter of the book, Sheeana will be a bitter medicine to the whole universe, in the same way as Maud'Dib, the Tyrant and the Honoured Matres. It is not clear to me, how she will be this bitter medicine? Will she become a worm, just like the Tyrant? She did consider this option in Chapterhouse: Dune. But she did not have to flee to do this, or would she, as the worms had been destroyed before? What would be consequences of this? She also took the Van Gogh painting Thatched Cottage in Cordeville with her.

(Online diary entry)

Sheeana is definitely a very interesting person. She has some of the originality of an artist, which has been suppressed a long time by the BG. Although she became a reverent mother very early in her life, she is not very loyal to the BG. She could also gain much power without becoming a worm.

She and Duncan Idaho are the potential main characters of the seventh book. From what we have seen so far from Duncan, it would surprise me if he would play a major leading role. Sheeana seems to be a natural leader, although this is not very clear in Chapterhouse: Dune it is strongly suggested in Heretics of Dune. It would at least explain her desire to escape from the influence of the Bene Gesserit.

As Andi Coons pointed out to me, it appears that the main reason why Sheeana wants to escape is to save her Sisterhood from the road that Murbella has taken. She wants to create her own universe, as it is reflected in the following quote from the 43th chapter of Chapterhouse: Dune:

Duncan Idaho

It is hinted (in a chapter in Dune Heretics, where Waff meets with the Honoured Matres), that they used some revelations from the Bene Tleilaxu from the Scattering, in the making of the last Duncan Idaho ghola. (It is clear that they did not trust their brothers from the Scattering much.) Is this the reason why the Duncan Idaho ghola has similar abilities with respect to seeing the net? Duncan was made from cells of the original Duncan Idaho and other Duncan Idaho gholas. He says that he does not have cells from all previous gholas, but he claims to have memories of almost all of them after he became sexual bonded with Murbella. There is something strange in his cells, which the BG cannot explain: not all of his cells have the mark of Siona. (Could it be that the added some Face Dancers cells?) It is clear that the Tleilaxu did imprint him with their whistling language, so that they could control him. They also gave him a sexual imprint, with a command to kill the first BG who would try to imprint him. They also improved his prana-bindu reflexes, and made them even better than most of the other people.

The question is how Duncan will evolve. Will he learn to master his new skills, which he has just started to develop? Does he have the same abilities as the Master Face Dancers to control the net? Will he work together with Sheeana, or go his own way? Did he only join forces with Sheeana, so that he could escape, or is he really attracted to her?

Scytale

There are several sub-plots in the last two books that are kind of left open at the end of Chapterhouse: Dune. This Jewish family with the wild Reverend Mother is one, but an even clearer one is Scytale. Somehow I get the feeling that the story would not have been much different without him. But I have to admit that there would be a lot less (in a literary sense) without them. Herbert does create some additional suspense through this character, but it is more of a decoy (with nothing behind) then anything substantial. Also, his most important card, the cells of Paul, Stilgar, and all the others, which he carried inside his chest, has not been played yet.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if some of the old characters would be recreated. They will be reawakened in a very different world. I think the cells were of great interest for the B.G. to recover some of the `blood lines' they had lost. I doubt whether any of the recreated characters would be able to play an important role again, except maybe for Leto II if his cells would be modified like Duncan's. They idea of all the worms becoming a collective consciousness controlling the `net' would be a really stunning thing....

(Credits: `the sherlock' for reminding me of the cells.)

The Golden Path

The Golden Path is one of the central themes of the 4th book of the series, but plays an important role in most of the books. The Golden Path is the path (in history) that will ensure the ongoing existence of the human race. It is that path which prevents stagnation of the human race. When Leto II died at the end of the 4th book he considered it to be established. It was established through the Scattering, and the fact that the off-spring of Siona were invisible for prescience. The goal of Leto II was that never in history again one person would be able to control all humankind. Or that the "seeking machines", as mentioned in "The God Emperor of Dune", would be able to find all of humankind to destroy them.

However, in the last two books it turns out that there are some people who can see no-ships, and who do control large amount people. First of all there is Miles Teg who can see the no-ships. Then there is Duncan Idaho with his strange abilities. And last but not least, Daniel and Marty, who could control large amounts of people through there control over the `net'. (large indeed, if it where them who send the Honoured Matres back into the Old Empire, and you realize that they outnumber the Bene Gesserit by a factor 10000.)

Although, Sheeana, Duncan, Teg, and the others escape the grip of Daniel and Marty, some doubt has been raised whether the Golden Path is still save.

(Credits: Greg for bringing up the discussion of the Golden Path.)

Possible titles

Here are some possible titles for the seventh book: (This list should not be taken very seriously, but any additional suggestions are welcome.)

Comments by others

Once so often, people email me with their comments. Instead of adding their comments and insight into the above story, I just present them below for everyone to read them. (Putting these comments here, does not mean I agree with everything being said.)

Comments by unidentified individual

The seventh Dune book was "The God Makers", set in the far future of the Dune universe. (Note the funeral orchards as in the later Dune novels, and the head female clearly has BG attitudes.)

Comments by Trevor Davel

It occurred to me while reading the section on the 'Master Face Dancers' that Chapterhouse: Dune does offer an explanation for both the origin of the Master Face Dancers, and some of Duncan's abilities.

Now I can't remember exactly where in the book this is noted (I will settle down on some cozy night with it and try to find the reference), but if I remember correctly it is one of the Master Face Dancers themselves that strongly imply that they have accumulated the knowledge of all the personas they have even become, and in this way achieved an understanding greater than the sum of the individuals they have impersonated.

This is a recurring theme - the BG is based entirely on Reverend Mothers being able to access the cumulative personalities and memories of their ancestors - the the last book the explanation given for Murbella's understanding of the BG Way is that she could witness the horror of the past through the Voices Inside, which is the common understanding that binds all BG and allows them to trust one another. Both Paul and Leto II had access to this ability, in addition to prescience; hence their devestating effect on the Universe. The final books also note that the Tleilaxu achieved their own immortality and ability to gather memories of many lives by using their own cells to recreate themselves in their Tanks.

Duncan's abilities go one step further - and he muses on this point more than once. He is aware that cells could not have been retrieved from all of his lives, yet he has unbroken memory from his original birth onwards. It seems that he has gained abilities not only from the knowledge accumulated in many lives, but also has some ability to "fill in the gaps". Whether this ability is prescience or not is a good question: it would allow him to "fill in the gaps" and also explain his foresight that Marty would be waiting to ensnare them on their escape from Chapterhouse (although this could have been foreseen without prescience). On the other hand, Duncan is not of the Atreides bloodline, the only line known by the BG to display prescient ability. What we do know is that with each incarnation the Tleilaxu subtly altered Duncan's genetics ... it is possible that they introduced the Atreides prescience without the BG noticing.

I would disagree that the Master Face Dancers were created by Tleilaxu in the Scattering, as the Tleilaxu are consistently shown to be masters of control, and paranoid about control. They are also extremely loyal to other Tleilaxu (shown by the number of secrets they hid as an entire race for millennia). The Master Face Dancers seem to have overcome all conditioned controls, even the whistling language. This would mean that they are either free of the Tleilaxu, or there are Tleilaxu in the Scattering intending to destroy the Tleilaxu in the Old Empire. Given the loyalty of the Tleilazi and the disdain the Master Face Dancers apparently show for them, I would prefer the former option.

I believe the book suggests that by the accumulation of far more knowledge than a single person should have, the Master Face Dancers were able to overcome the restrictions placed upon them by the Tleilaxu, and take technology bounds into the future. Remember that while all other races/groups at the time have only historical knowledge, the Face Dancers could accumulate current knowledge from a vast number of people - arguably a powerful base from which to advance technologically. As an alternative, Face Dancers in the Scattering may themselves have created the Master Face Dancers, using their accumulated knowledge, in an attempt to free their "kind".

Comments by Gyerman Nandor

I stumbled upon your homepage and I saw you write: "What is the meaning of this quote, I wonder." with respect to the The Zensunni Whip. I can give you my explanation, maybe you find some truth in it for you too.

"Paired opposites define your longings"
This world is based on relativity, things exist only in relation to each other. So do you.
There is you, and there is not you.
In this case I would define longing as non-physical need. To long is to try to get and own something that is not you.

"Those longings imprison you"
Owning other things is an illusion. You cannot have what you long for. While there is need, the need cannot be fulfilled. You don`t get things by wanting and needing, because the very act of longing for them places them beyond your reach (you let the universe outgrow you!). If you say you want this, it means that you don`t have it, and that's the reason for wanting it. The more you want it, the more you don't have it. In other words: Needs imprison you. They say: "You must have this, you must do this. You can't have this and you can't do that". It limits you choices, it limits your freedom, it makes you "less" than you are.

It seems like a paradox, but it is not. The answer is:
"Stop trying to hit me and hit me!" - Morpheus
"Just do it!" - ..

Needs are fears of things that may happen if we don't fulfill our needs. Release your fears. Be afraid of nothing. Don't accept what I said earlier about "There is you and there is not you". It limits you, there is no such thing as not you! That's why it is a whip. It whips you out of this universe into a magic one where anything can happen. It goes beyond words, beyond normal thinking, beyond what you define as yourself. Do not act because of need, but because you choose so!

My personal favorite is the Amtal Rule: "To know a thing well, know it's limits. Only when pushed beyond it's tolerances will true nature be seen."

And the next step is? ...

Comments by Vaibhav Joshi

Firstly I have only read Dune 1-6 and nothing else, no encyclopaedias. I haven't re-read them nor have them to hand for reference so do forgive any inaccuracies.

Some things I feel are missing from your discussion.

  1. NFD or not, the fact remains that Face Dancers are mules & therefore have lost the option of immortality thru offspring. Important: FD are not human as many times stated.

    Which brings me nicely onto point 2.

  2. They have absorbed BG 'therefore are more BG than the BG' because the BG have the ability to 'Abomination': live forever by altering there metabolising (remember the universe fearing an immortal line of old bag ladies?). The side effect is the risk of being overwhelmed by Other Memories.

  3. the NFD are forced to become immortal this way because they are 'mules' (sterile) & they don't have to worry about 'Other Memories'

  4. They are also aware (& therefore able to duplicate AND change) of the 'schematics' of their construction from the 'Masters' they have already taken -> thinking of no longer being sterile.

  5. They are aware of how they are given away by pheramones because of the BGs they have absorbed (?and have corrected this)

  6. They will also know of the BT's old KH and this is how (as KHs) they tried to manipulate events to bring Duncan to them and 'expected' him

    Or Using KH powers as Leto II had, they had predicted that this would be the no-ship that Duncan would escape from Gammu in & had fitted the 'net' in it and adjusted it to deliver Duncan to them.

  7. In conclusion: imagine immortal KH shape-shifters. See how this would threaten humanity & why Siona Genes were brought into existence to protect humanity from these KH-NFDs

    (Remember that LetoII wanted Duncan to mate with Siona, IMHO, the sandworm not eating Sheeana was his way of recognising the second chance & bringing to the BG's attention, who rightly tried to mate Duncan with her 'again')

    Duncan escaping with Sheeana/Siona means Humanity has a chance.

[I have ignored the Master, Jews, Sandworm (NB Sandworm, not Trout-> no second metamorphesis &? spice withdrawal for Sheeana) & Futars because I agree with your summation that these are side-plots, P.S. I never understood the need to feint the attack at Gammu, except to rescue people who they didn't know were there!]

Comments by Dustin T.

I am not sure how old your website is, but I enjoyed your analysis of Chapterhouse: Dune. You make mention of Sheeana possibly becoming a worm like Leto II, I just thought I would mention that she would not really need to do that since in "Children of Dune" they express fears of alia living 3500 years as "any" BG can do.

Comments by Sean Lacy

I have read all six of the originals numerous times and love the characters and the language - I like just about anything Frank does.

I think that the last three books are very much like the first three books - they are almost the same story, told over again with new names and details. The first three are about the Atreides' attempt to (in Leto II's words) "wrest an Empire from a ruling monarch", and then to defend that Empire against other factions who would fight for ascendancy. The last three books are about the same thing - a fight for ascendancy, featuring the modern Atreides, the Tleilaxu, Ix, Guild, etc. All the old players + their evolved offshoots from the Scattering.

What is familiar is that all of the old guard have once again failed to recognize the evolution of society as a factor in their designs - like the Sisterhood did when they produced Paul a generation too early and lost control of him. Modern BG, BT, Guild, and Ix has been grappling for control of the old Empire, while the people of the Scattering have evolved their own ascendancy plans and are fleeing a new threat (Wouter's 'Master Face Dancers' and their handlers, futars, and disease vectors). The people of the Scattering play the Jessica role - the unexpected thing.

Given this set - up, I think that Frank had two general choices with book 7.

One, to create a new Kwisatz Haderach, most likely the child of Murbella and Duncan, or Sheena and Duncan, but also possibly young Miles and someone new. The only thing I'm sure that Frank wouldn't do with the new KH is allow him or her to be the product of any faction's design - the essential theme of all the books is that the evolution of society invariably toys with any human pretensions to long-term planning (remember the Tyrant called himself the only truly long range human planner - and he was talking about more than just his 3500 year life-span).

Two, uphold Leto II's prescience and planning by denying ANY group ascendancy. Remember, It's not just the Master Face Dancers who have an unexpected ability, Duncan can also see them and their net and avoid it - their abilities are self cancelling. A book along these lines would be necessarily difficult to resolve, as there could be no really final resolution. While I'm sure that Frank had the ability to write an intelligent and engaging story along these lines, giving us some real surprises as new plans are cancelled by unexpected talents and dependencies, I don't think that Brian can pull it off (although I love the Dune universe so much that I'd read his attempt).

If Frank wanted another Kwisatz Haderach, maybe there should be a seventh book. If, however, he wanted to continue the Golden Path, I think the sixth book is a fine way to end it. It ends with a beginning, just as the Tyrant wanted, and the future will be just like the past, only different.

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