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Michael Bennett
A Collection of Articles/Debates SovereignGracePreterism.com Preterist Rapture? | The Great White Throne Judgment Has Already Happened | Scripture Demands a Spiritual Rapture | Acts 1:11 - A Brief Response to Dr. Mal Couch | The Daniel 12 Dilemma for the Partial Preterist | 666 Calculator
You Might Be A Partial Preterist….
(A light hearted response to Paul Manata’s
“You Might Be A Hyper-Preterist” blog)
If you call other men “divines” just because they wrote some
creed, you might be a Partial Preterist
If someone asks about Daniel 12 and you say “there are ways
around it”, you might be a Partial Preterist.
If you have said “even if it was true I wouldn’t believe
it”, you might be a Partial Preterist
If you say that you don’t know what you believe anymore
about the 1st 19 chapters of Revelation because a Preterist
showed various contradictions in your theology, but you still
say “I will never believe in Preterism”, you might be a Partial
Preterist.
If you accuse Dispys of putting in large gaps of time in
Daniels 70 weeks, but you insist that there is a large gap
in Matthew 24, you might be a Partial Preterist.
If you believe in three comings of Christ, you might be a
Partial Preterist.
If you think that you hold to the Westminster Confession,
but in the “Last Judgment” section nearly all the verses
listed as “proof texts” you say are past events, you might
be a Partial Preterist.
If you are a modern day “Pharisee”, you might be a
Partial Preterist.
If you can’t answer emails from a Preterist, and
therefore accuse them of sending you floods of email, you
might be a Partial Preterist.
If every argument you make starts with an ad hominem
attack, you might be a partial
preterist.
If you are scared to debate Don Preston, you might be a
Partial Preterist.
If your only explanation to any eschatological question
is “it’s the already and the not yet” you might be a Partial
Preterist.
If you try to say that 2Peter 3 is still future even
though it begins with the “last days” which in other verses
you hold as past, you might be a Partial Preterist.
If you don’t think that soteriology and eschatology are
linked, you might be a Partial Preterist.
If you hold to a “Confession” that says it may error, and
that scripture is to be put first, yet you insist people are
“heretics” for no other reason other than not believing the
confession, you might be a Partial Preterist.
If you think the definition of “church” is a building
that you go into on Sundays, you might be a Partial
Preterist.
If you think that you are smarter than you really are,
you might be a Partial Preterist.
If your stance on the creeds render even the Reformer
Martin Luther a heretic, you might be a Partial Preterist.
If you believe that the dead judged in Revelation 11 is
in the past and is a different group then in Revelation 20,
you might be a Partial Preterist.
If you are a man and you list “French Kiss” and
“Sommersby” as two of your favorite movies on your blog, you
might have homosexual tendencies, Partial Preterist or not.
The Timing Of The Resurrection / 2nd Coming Is 70AD
Daniel 12
1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. <= Partial Preterists say this event is past - see Matt 24:21 But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. <= Resurrection 4 But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."
5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. 6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?" <= The astonishing things mentioned in verses 1 through 3
7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed." <= AD 70
Luke 21
20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, <= AD 70 you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. <= All which was written was fulfilled at the destruction of Jerusalem. This includes the resurrection. The power of the holy people shattered
Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. <= Covenant change and time text. Partial Preterists must hold to the time texts
Hebrews 9
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: <= AD 70 the temple was destroyed. The power of the holy people shattered
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, <= Time text in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation <= Covenant change
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. <= Second coming expected at the covenant change
Hebrews 10
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come <= Covenant change and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. <= Covenant change
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. <= Time text. The Partial Preterist must hold to the time text
To summarize: The Resurrection and the Second Coming were to occur at the COVENANT CHANGE. There are time texts involved. The Partial Preterist is supposed to hold to the time texts.
Bible students know that Daniel 12 is a very important text in Jesus' teaching, especially in the Olivet Discourse. In Matthew 24:21 Jesus foretold the coming of a tribulation "such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be." This is a direct reference to Daniel 12:1. In Matthew 24:15 our Lord once again referred to Daniel 12, [and chapter 9], when he foretold the coming of the Abomination of Desolation. Jesus, in Matthew 24, quotes from Daniel 12 twice in response to his discipe's questions about his coming and the end of the age.
To help understand the parallel between Daniel 12 and Matthew 24 note the following chart.
Keep in mind that all Partial Preterists say that Matt 24:1-34 are fulfilled.
Daniel 12 Matthew 24
time of the end, v. 4 end of the age, v. 3.
Great Tribulation, v. 1 Great Tribulation, v. 21
Abomination of Desolation, v. 11 Abomination of Desolation, v. 15
Resurrection, v. 2, 13 Gathering of elect, v. 31.
[In scripture the gathering of the elect is the salvation of the remnant, Isaiah 65:8f; the remnant are the scattered, Isa. 11:11,16; the scattered are the "dead", Ezekiel 37:11f. Jesus' reference in Matthew 24:31 to gathering the elect at his coming must be seen in light of this Old Covenant background. Thus, Matthew 24:31 (which Partial Preterists say is a past event), is nothing less than the promise of the resurrection.]
Now notice heaven's own time-frame for the fulfillment of "all these things". In Daniel 12:6 one angel asked another "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?" The other angel responded "when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished" vs. 7. When was this? AD 70.
Full-Preterist Affirms: Age Parousia, Resurrection Age to come (does not end)
This is precisely why Luther and the Reformers were victorious. They refused to interpret scripture through the lens of the creeds and confessions. Though, the Reformers would never dare to downplay the importance of the church. The Church is the pillar of truth. The church itself is not the truth. A pillar upholds something else. In the same way we uphold the word of God.
When Luther was summoned to appear before the Diet of Worms, on the evening of April 18, 1521, he made his famous stand:
Unless I am convinced by the testimony of the Scriptures or by clear reason (for I do not trust either in the pope or in councils alone, since it is well known that they have often erred and contradicted themselves), I am bound by the Scriptures I have quoted and my conscience is captive to the word of God. I cannot and I will not retract anything, since it is neither safe nor right to go against conscience. I cannot do otherwise, here I stand, may God help me. Amen.
Would the creedalists also condemn Martin Luther since he did not agree with the WCF? Of course not.
The Westminster Confession:
Chapter 32 - Of the State of Man After Death, and of the Resurrection of the Dead
1. THE bodies of men, after death, return to dust, and see corruption; but their souls (which neither die nor sleep), having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God who gave them. The souls of the righteous, being then made perfect in holiness, are received into the highest heavens, where they behold the face of God in light and glory, waiting for the full redemption of their bodies; and the souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment of the great day. Besides these two places for souls separated from their bodies,
the Scripture acknowledgeth none.
Martin Luther:
As for the popular notion that the souls of the righteous have the full enjoyment of heaven prior to the resurrection, Luther whimsically remarked, "It would take a foolish soul to desire its body when it was already in heaven!" - D. Martin Luthers Werke, ed.
Tischreden (Weimar, 1912-1921), p.5534, cited by Althaus, op. cit, p.417. He said further: Now, if one should say that Abraham's soul lives with God but his body is dead, this distinction is rubbish. I will attack it. One must say, The whole Abraham, the whole man, shall live. The other way you tear off a part of Abraham and say, "It lives." - Table Talk, cited by Althaus, op. cit., p.447.
Which version of the The Westminster Confession / 1689 Confession should we use? It has changed many times. If it has changed then it was not infallible.
If a person says the The Westminster Confession / 1689 Confession is the standard, wouldn't it be unorthodox to use them as the standard of orthodoxy? Please read below. The WCF states within itself not to use the WCF as the standard of orthodoxy.
The Westminster Confession reads: (1689 Confession reads the same) in Chapter I Of the Holy Scripture.
VIII. The Old Testament in Hebrew (which was the native language of the people of God of old), and the New Testament in Greek (which, at the time of the writing of it, was most generally known to the nations), being immediately inspired by God, and, by His singular care and providence, kept pure in all ages, are therefore authentical;so as, in all controversies of religion, the Church is finally to appeal unto them.But, because these original tongues are not known to all the people of God, who have right unto, and interest in the Scriptures, and are commanded, in the fear of God, to read and search them, therefore they are to be translated in to the vulgar language of every nation unto which they come,that, the Word of God dwelling plentifully in all, they may worship Him in an acceptable manner;and, through patience and comfort of the Scriptures, may have hope.
IX. The infallible rule of interpretation of Scripture is the Scripture itself: and therefore, when there is a question about the true and full sense of any Scripture (which is not manifold, but one), it must be searched and known by other places that speak more clearly.
X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.
The Latin slogan, "Ecclesia reformata, semper reformanda" ("The church reformed and always to be reformed") is supposed to be upheld in the reformed churches. Instead, these reformed churches have returned to Rome.
PAULS INTERPRETATION OF "UNITY OF THE FAITH" REFUTED Hey Paul if UNITY OF THE FAITH only comes in the NEW HEAVENS AND THE NEW EARTH and FAITH is the SUBSTANCE OF THINGS HOPED FOR - WHAT ARE THEY STILL HOPING FOR IN YOUR VERSION OF THE NEW HEAVENS AND NEW EARTH? WHY WOULD YOU BE HOPING FOR ANYTHING IF THE NEW HEAVENS AND NEW EARTH IS THE ETERNAL STATE? LOL. PAULS INTERPRETATION OF "NO MORE LIARS" REFUTED PARTIAL PRETERISTS SAY THAT THE VERSES BELOW, REVELATION 7, IS A PAST EVENT. THIS HAPPENED AT THE TRIBULATION WHICH THEY SAY IS A PAST EVENT. PAUL - PLEASE NOTE THAT THEY HAVE WASHED THEIR ROBES ALREADY. PAUL - PLEASE NOTE THAT THEY ARE BEFORE THE THRONE OF GOD ALREADY. Revelation 7:14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. PAUL SO THE PEOPLE ABOVE WHO HAVE WASHED THEIR ROBES WHO ARE ALREADY BEFORE THE LORD ARE YOU SAYING THAT THEY ARE BEFORE THE LORD SOMEWHERE ELSE OTHER THAN IN THE CITY? THEY ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO WASHED THEIR ROBES IN CHAPTER 22. PAUL - THE CITY IS A COVENANT. NOT ONLY THAT PAUL BUT REVELATION 22 HAS TIME TEXTS. PARTIAL PRETERISTS ARE SUPPOSED TO HOLD TO THE TIME TEXTS. PAUL - NOT ONLY ARE THERE TIME TEXTS BUT THERE IS A QUOTE OF MATTHEW 16:27-28 "RENDER EACH MAN ACCORDING TO WHAT HE HAS DONE." MATTHEW 16 TELLS US THAT "SOME STANDING THERE WOULD NOT TASTE DEATH" BEFORE THIS HAPPENED. Revelation 22 12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, <= TIME TEXT and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. <= SEE MATT 16:27-28 SOME STANDING THERE WOULD NOT TASTE DEATH BEFORE THIS EVENT 13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." 14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. 18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; <= THE ONLY PLAGUES MENTIONED ARE THE ONES THAT ARE IN CHAPTERS THAT THE PARTIAL PRETERIST SAY ARE PAST EVENTS 20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." <= TIME TEXT. Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
THEREFORE THIS VERSE ABOUT LYING IS IN THE PAST. SO THE CHOICE IS REALLY SIMPLE PAUL. WHATEVER THIS VERSE MEANS - EITHER PAUL MANATA IS RIGHT. OR JESUS WAS RIGHT. IT'S NOT A TOUGH DECISION FOR MOST CHRISTIANS PAUL. WHY IS IT SO HARD FOR YOU? IT MAKES ME WONDER. OH YA - THE REASON WHY I SAY "PAUL" SO MUCH IS APPARENTLY THE LORD HAS GIVEN YOU A BIT OF A.D.D. BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE REFUTED YOUR ARGUMENT OVER AND OVER YOU ACT LIKE YOU DON'T GET IT. OR MAYBE YOU JUST DON'T HAVE THE "EYES TO SEE AND EARS TO HEAR" AFTER ALL "THE LORD MADE BOTH" - MICHAEL BENNETT <><
Revelation 7 Partial Preterists say that this is past.
4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
13 Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes--who are they, and where did they come from?"
14 I answered, "Sir, you know."
15 And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Revelation 14 Partial Preterists say that this is past.
1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
Revelation 22
12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, <= TIME TEXT. and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. <= SEE MATT 16:27-28 SOME STANDING THERE WOULD NOT TASTE DEATH BEFORE THIS EVENT. 13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." 14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying. 18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; <= THE ONLY PLAGUES MENTIONED ARE THE ONES THAT ARE IN CHAPTERS THAT THE PARTIAL PRETERIST SAY ARE PAST EVENTS 20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." <= TIME TEXT. Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
Mike Krall sent me these quotes below from Chilton when he was a Partial Preterist in in the book "Days Of Vengeance", and others:
Finally, St. John says, no lie was found in their mouth, for
they are blameless. It is the Dragon who is the deceiver, the false
accuser, the father of the Lie (John 8:44; Rev. 12:9); God's people
are characterized by truthfulness (Eph. 4:2427). As St. Paul declared
regarding the heathen, the basic Lie is idolatry: ?Professing
themselves to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the
glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible
man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling
creatures. . . . For they exchanged the Truth of God for the
Lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the
Creator, who is blessed forever? (Rom. 1:2225). At root, the
Lie is false prophecy (cf. Jer. 23), the rendering of honor and
glory to the creature in place of the Creator. We have seen that
the conflict between true and false prophecy, between the witnessing
servant prophets and the False Prophet, is central to the
concerns of the Book of Revelation. In opposition to her enemies,
the Church carries and proclaims the Truth.
As the prophets had foretold, God raised up a faithful Remnant during
the time of wrath and tribulation on Jerusalem:
But I will leave among you
A humble and lowly people,
And they will take refuge in the name of the LORD.
The Remnant of Israel will do no wrong
And tell no lies,
Nor will a deceitful tongue
Be found in their mouths. . . . (Zeph. 3:1213)
Commentators have often been vexed over the question of
whether this picture is meant to represent the Church as seen on
earth, or the Church as seen at rest, in heaven. It should be obvious
that both aspects of the Church are in view here ? especially
since, as we have seen, the Church on earth is 'in heaven'
(12:12; 13:6). The famous statement in Hebrews 12:2223 provides
compelling evidence: "You have come to Mount Zion and
to the City of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to
myriads of angels in festal assembly, and to the Church of the
firstborn who are enrolled in heaven. . . ." Milton Terry rightly
remarks: "The heaven of our apocalyptist is the visional sphere
of the glory and triumph of the Church, and no marked distinction
is recognized between the saints on earth and those in heaven.
They are conceived as one great company, and death is of
no account to them. . . . Thus the entire passage serves to illustrate
how saints 'dwelling in heavenly places in Christ Jesus' are
all one in spirit and triumph, no matter what physical locality
they may occupy.' For St. John, Zion ?is neither in Jerusalem
nor above the clouds; it is the whole assembly of the saints, living
and departed."
Scott Vento adds the TAFPV:
Michael,
How's this for the Transcendental Argument for the Preterist view:
Simply put, to argue about any "Christian" doctrine, you must show that Christianity is true. The "precondition" for the truth of Christianity is this: Jesus is correct. The Preterist view is the only view that proves Jesus is correct. So, like Dr Bahnsen says, "by attempting to debate against the preterist view, you must assume it's true, therefore you lose the debate! Game over!!!! All other views are hereby refuted by my new TAFPV.
Isaiah 51 - Context - Destruction of Jerusalem
Isaiah 51
11And the ransomed of the LORD shall return
and come to Zion with singing;
Hebrews 12
22But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect, 24to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
everlasting joy shall be upon their heads;
they shall obtain gladness and joy,
Revelation 14 Partial Pretrerists say this is past
1Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
and sorrow and sighing shall flee away.
Revelation 7 Partial Preterists say this is past
17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes."
Revelation 21 Partial Preterists say this is future
4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."
16And I have put my words in your mouth
and covered you in the shadow of my hand,
establishing the heavens
and laying the foundations of the earth,
and saying to Zion, 'You are my people.'"
Hebrews 8
10This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
Revelation 21 Partial Preterists say this is future
7 "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.
17Wake yourself, wake yourself,
stand up, O Jerusalem,
you who have drunk from the hand of the LORD
the cup of his wrath,
who have drunk to the dregs
the bowl, the cup of staggering.
Luke 21
20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 31Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.
32"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 33Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
In Isaiah 51 we have RANSOMED returning to ZION where SORROW would FLEE AWAY and then God woud say YOU ARE MY PEOPLE.
Context of Isaiah 51 is the DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM.
No Wedding = No Covenant Change: A Partial Preterist / Futurist Dilemma Will the Partial Preterist / Futurist admit that wedding of the Lamb has occurred? If the wedding has not occurred then we are not in the New Covenant. Not only that, but the Partial Preterist is supposed to hold to all scriptural time texts. Jonathan Seraiah (Partial Preterist): “If a text says something is ‘near,’ then we must accept it as true” Kenneth Gentry (Partial Preterist): "Evangelical (and reformed) preterists (e.g., R. C. Sproul) take seriously the time texts of Scripture and apply those prophecies to A.D. 70, a redemptive-historical event of enormous consequence." “Think of it: If these words in these verses do not indicate that John expected the events to occur soon, what words could John have used to express such? How could he have said it more plainly?” Gary Demar (Partial Preterist): The Bible says that Jesus would come in judgment within a generation (Matt. 24:34), before the last apostle died (16:27-28). James, in writing "to the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad" (James 1:1), told them, "the coming of the Lord is at hand . . . [T]he judge is standing right at the door" (5:7, 9). John writes, "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arise; from this we know that it is the last hour" (1 John 2:18). John would later write that the events depicted in Revelation "must shortly take place" (1:1), "for the time is near" (1:3). Spargimino dismisses these clear statements of biblical fact and maintains that the Bible does not mean what it says. The Wedding = The Covenant Change Matthew 22
1Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2"The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.
4"Then he sent some more servants and said, 'Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.'
5"But they paid no attention and went off--one to his field, another to his business. 6The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. <= The Jews killed Jesus: Matthew 23 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation. 37"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 7The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.<= The Jews city of Jerusalem: Luke 21 20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. Galatians 4
24These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, <= Old Covenant = Jerusalem from below. because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem that is above is free <= New Covenant = Jerusalem from above, and she is our mother. 27For it is written:
"Be glad, O barren woman,
who bears no children;
break forth and cry aloud,
you who have no labor pains;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband."<= New Covenant Church has a husband 28Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son.<= Get rid of the Old Covenant (Jerusalem from below) 31Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman. Therefore: If the New Covenant church has a husband when the Old Covenant is removed (Jerusalem from below) then the verses in Revelation 19, 21 and 22 are fulfilled. Revelation 19
7Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come, <= time text
and his bride has made herself ready. <= time text Revelation 21
2I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, <= new Jerusalem = Jerusalem from above = New Covenant (Galatians 4) coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. Revelation 22
1Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 3No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 4They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 5There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever. 6The angel said to me, "These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place." <= time text 17The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" <= time text And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life. The Wedding had to have occurred in order for us to be in the New Covenant. Not only that but the Partial Preterist is supposed to hold to the time texts.
The Resurrection And Second Coming Was To Occur At The Covenant Change
The Partial Preterist is supposed to hold to all scriptural time texts. Also please note below. I will attempt to demonstrate to all futurists that the second coming was expected at the covenant change. Jonathan Seraiah (Partial Preterist): “If a text says something is ‘near,’ then we must accept it as true” Kenneth Gentry (Partial Preterist): "Evangelical (and reformed) preterists (e.g., R. C. Sproul) take seriously the time texts of Scripture and apply those prophecies to A.D. 70, a redemptive-historical event of enormous consequence." “Think of it: If these words in these verses do not indicate that John expected the events to occur soon, what words could John have used to express such? How could he have said it more plainly?” Gary Demar (Partial Preterist): The Bible says that Jesus would come in judgment within a generation (Matt. 24:34), before the last apostle died (16:27-28). James, in writing "to the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad" (James 1:1), told them, "the coming of the Lord is at hand . . . [T]he judge is standing right at the door" (5:7, 9). John writes, "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arise; from this we know that it is the last hour" (1 John 2:18). John would later write that the events depicted in Revelation "must shortly take place" (1:1), "for the time is near" (1:3). Spargimino dismisses these clear statements of biblical fact and maintains that the Bible does not mean what it says. The Timing of The Second Coming and the Resurrection Daniel 12 1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. <= Partial Preterists say this event is past - see Matt 24:21. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. <= Resurrection. 4 But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."
5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. 6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?" <= The astonishing things mentioned in verses 1 through 3.
7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed." <= AD 70. Luke 21 20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, <= AD 70. you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. <= All which was written was fulfilled at the destruction of Jerusalem. This includes the resurrection. The power of the holy people shattered. Hebrews 8 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. <= Covenant change and time text. Partial Preterists must hold to the time texts.
Hebrews 9
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: <= AD 70 the temple was destroyed. The power of the holy people shattered.
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, <= Time text. in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation <= Covenant change.
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. <= Second coming expected at the covenant change. Salvation to occur at the second coming. Hebrews 10
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come <= Covenant change. and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. <= Covenant change.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. <= Time text. The Partial Preterist must hold to the time text. To summarize: The Resurrection and the Second Coming were to occur at the covenant change. There are time texts involved. The Partial Preterist must hold to the time texts.
Justification When? At The Cross? By Faith? Or at 70 AD?
Justification at the cross? If people were "actually justified" at the cross and Abraham died prior to the cross then please tell me where Abraham went prior to the cross when he died. Please keep the verses below (in blue) in mind in Hebrews which were written around 66 - 68 AD and that even after the cross Abraham still did not have what was promised. Please keep in mind that the eternal inheritance was to be given at the great white thrown judgment Also, (though this is an appeal to antiquity which may error because it is not infallible scripture), please keep the understanding of Abraham's bosom in mind before you answer. Justification upon faith? Partial Preterists (for example) understand where Abraham's bosom was. If people were actually justified by faith then why did Abraham go to Abraham's bosom when he died? If he was justified by faith then why didn't he just go straight to heaven? Please keep these verses below (in blue) in mind in Hebrews which were written around 66 - 68 AD. Even after faith and the cross Abraham still did not have what was promised. Please keep in mind that the eternal inheritance was to be given at the great white thrown judgment. Verses that can not be reconciled with the theology of justification at the cross or by faith. Matthew 25
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. Hebrews 9
15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. Hebrews 9
8The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing. Revelation 15
5After this I looked and in heaven the temple, that is, the tabernacle of the Testimony, was opened. 6Out of the temple came the seven angels with the seven plagues. They were dressed in clean, shining linen and wore golden sashes around their chests. 7Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls filled with the wrath of God, who lives for ever and ever. 8And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power, and no one could enter the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed. Hebrews 11
39These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. HIPPOLYTUS: Dicourse on Hades: It is now known that the "Discourse on Hades" was incorrectly attributed to Josephus by the 9th-century Greek theologian Photius. Photius was only speculating about its authorship, but the attribution stuck for a thousand years. Finally it was discovered that this discourse is in fact an excerpt from a work by Hippolytus of Rome (d. 236 CE), But now we must speak of Hades, in which the souls both of the righteous and the unrighteous are detained. Hades is a place in the created system, rude, a locality beneath the earth, in which the light of the world does not shine;... But the righteous shall obtain the incorruptible and un-fading kingdom, who indeed are at present detained in Hades,... For to this locality there is one descent, at the gate whereof we believe an archangel is stationed with a host. And when those who are conducted by the angels appointed unto the souls have passed through this gate, they do not proceed on one and the same way; but the righteous, being conducted in the light toward the right, and being hymned by the angels stationed at the place, are brought to a locality full of light. And there the righteous from the beginning dwell, not ruled by necessity, but enjoying always the contemplation of the blessings which are in their view, and delighting themselves with the expectation of others ever new, and deeming those ever better than these. And that place brings no toils to them. There, there is neither fierce heat, nor cold, nor thorn; but the face of the fathers and the righteous is seen to be always smiling, as they wait for the rest and eternal revival in heaven which succeed this location. And we call it by the name Abraham's bosom. But the unrighteous are dragged toward the left by angels who are ministers of punishment, and they go of their own accord no longer, but are dragged by force as prisoners. Paradise: according to The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon the part of Hades which was thought by the later Jews to be the abode of the souls of pious until the resurrection: The solution to the problems presented above. Abraham was justified by faith. He did not have actual justification prior to 70AD. Faith is the substance of things hoped for. Hebrews 11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, You do not hope for what you have. Romans 8 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently. Saints prior to 70AD had to persevere in the faith in order to receive the goal of their faith, the salvation of their souls. Hebrews 4
1Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. Hebrews 6
12We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised. Hebrews 10
23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10
36You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.
Those that were chosen by God for salvation persevered in faith to the end of the age. Please note that they were in the present evil age. Please note that if the age to come has not come yet then no one has eternal life. Also please note that if this judgment has not come then no one has received the inheritance - the kingdom. Galatians 1
4who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, Luke 18
30will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life." Matthew 13
38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. Matthew 25
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. The salvation of their souls (justification) was actually received at 70AD at the 2nd coming (Revelation of Jesus Christ) when these saints actually entered Jesus' rest. The rest that they entered was the new covenant. The Old Covenant was still waxing old when Hebrews was written: around 66 - 68 AD. Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 9
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. Prior to 70AD they only had grace through faith. They actually received that grace at the 2nd coming. That grace that they received was the New Covenant, where there sins would no longer be held against them. 1 Peter 1
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. 6In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials. 7These have come so that your faith--of greater worth than gold, which perishes even though refined by fire--may be proved genuine and may result in praise, glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. 8Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, 9for you are receiving the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
10Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care,
13Therefore, prepare your minds for action; be self-controlled; set your hope fully on the grace to be given you when Jesus Christ is revealed. The second coming was the destruction of Jerusalem 70AD. Notice that they would not finish going through Israel and that some standing there would not taste death before the Son of Man came. All which was written was fulfilled at the destruction of Jerusalem 70 AD. Matthew 10
23When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. Matthew 16
27For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.
28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom." Luke 21
20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. With the second coming came the consummation of the New Covenant. Now - since the New Covenant is in place - saints after 70AD receive immediate justification upon belief. They immediately receive the salvation of their souls upon belief. By doing so they enter the New Covenant. Therefore: Actual justification came at 70 AD at the great white throne judgment. Not by faith and not at the cross. Faith was the substance of things hoped for. No great white throne judgment = no eternal inheritance. The Daniel 12 Dilemma for the Partial Preterist / Futurist Is Daniel 12 a past or future event? Please notice that Daniel 12 mixes verses that Partial Preterists say are past, with verses that they say are future. If it is a past event, when in the past did it happen, and when did Daniel rise to his inheritance? When was the power of the holy people destroyed (v7). If that already happened then weren't verses 1-3 ie the "astonishing things" (v5) ie "all these things" (v7) completed? Partial Preterists agree that the power of the holy people was broken at 70 AD, does that mean that the "astonishing things" were fulfilled (verses 1-3)? Yes or no? If it is a future event, then has anyone risen to their inheritance: which includes the "reward", "what has been promised", "the kingdom", "salvation", "eternal life", and being "God's son"? John 5
28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. Matthew 24 (Partial Preterists say is a past event)
21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again. Matthew 13
36Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."
37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear. Revelation 22
10Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. 11Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy." Daniel 12
1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. (Partial Preterist says this is a past event) But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. 4 But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."
5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. 6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?"
7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed." (Partial Preterist says is a past event)
8 I heard, but I did not understand. So I asked, "My lord, what will the outcome of all this be?"
9 He replied, "Go your way, Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.
11 "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation (Partial Preterist says is a past event) is set up, there will be 1,290 days. 12 Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.
13 "As for you, go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of the days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance." Colossians 3
24since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. Hebrews 6
12We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised. Matthew 25
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. Hebrews 1
14Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation? Matthew 19
29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. Revelation 21
7He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son. The Timing of the Resurrection and Second Coming at the Covenant Change Daniel 12
1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. <= Partial Preterists say this event is past - see Matt 24:21. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. <= Resurrection. 4 But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."
5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. 6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?" <= The astonishing things mentioned in verses 1 through 3.
7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed." <= AD 70. Luke 21
20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, <= AD 70. you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. <= All which was written was fulfilled at the destruction of Jerusalem. This includes the resurrection. The power of the holy people shattered. Hebrews 8 13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. <= Covenant change and time text. Partial Preterists must hold to the time texts.
Hebrews 9
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: <= AD 70 the temple was destroyed. The power of the holy people shattered.
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, <= Time text. in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation <= Covenant change.
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. <= Second coming expected at the covenant change. Hebrews 10
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come <= Covenant change. and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. <= Covenant change.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. <= Time text. The Partial Preterist must hold to the time text. To summarize: The Resurrection and the Second Coming were to occur at the covenant change. There are time texts involved. The Partial Preterist must hold to the time texts. Bible students know that Daniel 12 is a very important text in Jesus' teaching, especially in the Olivet Discourse. In Matthew 24:21 Jesus foretold the coming of a tribulation "such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be." This is a direct reference to Daniel 12:1. In Matthew 24:15 our Lord once again referred to Daniel 12, [and chapter 9], when he foretold the coming of the Abomination of Desolation. Jesus, in Matthew 24, quotes from Daniel 12 twice in response to his discipe's questions about his coming and the end of the age. To help understand the parallel between Daniel 12 and Matthew 24 note the following chart. Keep in mind that all Partial Preterists say that Matt 24:1-34 are fulfilled. Daniel 12 | Matthew 24 | time of the end, v. 4 | end of the age, v. 3. | Great Tribulation, v. 1 | Great Tribulation, v. 21 | Abomination of Desolation, v. 11 | Abomination of Desolation, v. 15 | Resurrection, v. 2, 13 | Gathering of elect, v. 31. |
[In scripture the gathering of the elect is the salvation of the remnant, Isaiah 65:8f; the remnant are the scattered, Isa. 11:11,16; the scattered are the "dead", Ezekiel 37:11f. Jesus' reference in Matthew 24:31 to gathering the elect at his coming must be seen in light of this Old Covenant background. Thus, Matthew 24:31 (which Partial Preterists say is a past event), is nothing less than the promise of the resurrection.] Now notice heaven's own time-frame for the fulfillment of "all these things". In Daniel 12:6 one angel asked another "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?" The other angel responded "when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished" vs. 7. When was this? AD 70. A comparison between 1 Thessalonians 4-5 and Matthew 24 is fascinating. As we keep in mind that Jesus uses apocalyptic language in Matthew 24: 29-35 which all Partial Preterists say is past, we can't expect the same language to be literal in 1 Thessalonians 4-5. Those who believe the coming in Matthew refers to the spiritual events surrounding Jerusalem's fall would insist that we not literalize the clouds, the angels or the trumpet blast. If they are not literal in Matthew why would they be in Thessalonians?
1. Christ Himself Returns | Matt. 24:30 | I Thess. 4:16 | 2. From Heaven | Matt. 24:30 | I Thess. 4:16 | 3. With a Shout | Matt. 24:30 (in power) | I Thess. 4:16 | 4. Accompanied by Angels | Matt. 24:31 | I Thess. 4:16 | 5. With Trumpet of God | Matt. 24:31 | I Thess. 4:16 | 6. Believers Gathered | Matt. 24:31 | I Thess. 4:17 | 7. In Clouds | Matt. 24:30 | I Thess. 4:17 | 8. Time Unknown | Matt. 24:36 | I Thess. 5:1-2 | 9. Will Come as a Thief | Matt. 24:43 | I Thess. 5:2,4 | 10. Unbelievers Unaware of Impending Judgment | Matt. 24:37-39 | I Thess. 5:3 | 11. Judgment Comes as Travail upon Expectant Mother | Matt. 24:8 | I Thess. 5:3 | 12. Believers to Watch | Matt. 24:42 | I Thess. 5:4 | 13. Warning Against Drunkenness | Matt. 24:49 | I Thess. 5:7 |
Mathew 24 Can Not Be Divided PARTIAL PRETERISTS: MATTHEW 24 CAN NOT BE DIVIDED: SINCE MATTHEW 24 CAN NOT BE DIVIDED: HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSED AWAY: AND THEREFORE: REVELATION 20 (THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT) AND 21 ARE FULFILLED Matthew 24 (Partial Preterists say that this is past)
16"then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. - Many Partial Preterists try to divide Matthew 24 into different subject matter. They try to say that there is a transition verse at verse 35 or 36 where the subject matter changes from a local judgment on Jerusalm to another future coming.
Matthew 24 (Partial Preterists say that this is future)
37But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. - Matthew 24 (above) can not be divided into two different comings of Christ. Please note that Luke 17 (below) mixes the order of events so that it is impossible that Matthew 24 is dealing with two different comings of Christ.
Luke 17 (mixes the events of Matthew 24)
26And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.
31"In that day, he who is on the housetop, and his goods are in the house, let him not come down to take them away. And likewise the one who is in the field, let him not turn back. 32Remember Lot's wife. 33Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it. 34I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. 35Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. 36Two men will be in the field: the one will be taken and the other left." Coming Like A Thief Many Partial Preterists who divide Matthew 24 will try to say that there are different comings because Jesus gives signs of his coming in the early part of Matthew 24 but then he says he will come like a thief in the latter part of Matthew 24. But take a look at the verses in Revelation. All Partial Preterists say that these verses are past (Ch 1-19 are said to be past). In these verses we see that Jesus came like a thief. Matthew 24 (future?)
42"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. Revelation 3 (past)
3Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Revelation 16 (past)
15"Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed." So we see that Matthew 24 can not be divided. 34I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Therefore: Heaven and earth passed away I would need this to be answered SCRIPTURALLY and LOGICALLY where I error regarding Matthew 24 and heaven and earth. Again: Matthew 24 can not be divided and and therefore / logically: HEAVEN AND EARTH MUST HAVE PASSED AWAY. 
THEREFORE: SINCE HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSED AWAY: REVELATION 20 AND 21 ARE FULFILLED: Revelation 20
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Revelation 21
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 4And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away." The Harvest: A Past Event / Time Texts
(Does the Partial Preterist really hold to the time texts?) Partial Preterist Quotes: Jonathan Seraiah (Partial Preterist): “If a text says something is ‘near,’ then we must accept it as true” Kenneth Gentry (Partial Preterist): "Evangelical (and reformed) preterists (e.g., R. C. Sproul) take seriously the time texts of Scripture and apply those prophecies to A.D. 70, a redemptive-historical event of enormous consequence." “Think of it: If these words in these verses do not indicate that John expected the events to occur soon, what words could John have used to express such? How could he have said it more plainly?” Gary Demar (Partial Preterist): The Bible says that Jesus would come in judgment within a generation (Matt. 24:34), before the last apostle died (16:27-28). James, in writing "to the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad" (James 1:1), told them, "the coming of the Lord is at hand . . . [T]he judge is standing right at the door" (5:7, 9). John writes, "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arise; from this we know that it is the last hour" (1 John 2:18). John would later write that the events depicted in Revelation "must shortly take place" (1:1), "for the time is near" (1:3). Spargimino dismisses these clear statements of biblical fact and maintains that the Bible does not mean what it says. Gene Cook Jr. (Partial Preterist): "I hold to all of the time texts" Matthew 9
37Then he said to his disciples, "The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. 38Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field." Workers were sent out to do the harvesting. He said this to the disciples. Matthew 24
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come. The end will come when the gospel was preached in the whole world. 1 Peter 5
9Resist him, standing firm in the faith, because you know that your brothers throughout the world are undergoing the same kind of sufferings.
Colossians 1
5the faith and love that spring from the hope that is stored up for you in heaven and that you have already heard about in the word of truth, the gospel 6that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood God's grace in all its truth. Romans 10
16But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?"17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. 18But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
"Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world." As seen in the above three verses the gospel had already reached the whole world. We were told that the end would come once this happened. The end that was to come was the harvest (as seen above). Matthew 13
30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' The weeds are burned at the same time that the wheat is brought into the barn. If the wheat has not been brought into the barn yet then no one is in the kingdom (the barn). Matthew 21
33"Listen to another parable: There was a landowner who planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a winepress in it and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey. 34When the harvest time approached, he sent his servants to the tenants to collect his fruit.
35"The tenants seized his servants; they beat one, killed another, and stoned a third. 36Then he sent other servants to them, more than the first time, and the tenants treated them the same way. 37Last of all, he sent his son to them. 'They will respect my son,' he said.
38"But when the tenants saw the son, they said to each other, 'This is the heir. Come, let's kill him and take his inheritance.' 39So they took him and threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.
40"Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?"
41"He will bring those wretches to a wretched end," they replied, "and he will rent the vineyard to other tenants, who will give him his share of the crop at harvest time."
42Jesus said to them, "Have you never read in the Scriptures:
" 'The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone;
the Lord has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes'?
43"Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit. 44He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed." Note the winepress language. The harvest time is said to be approaching. This is a time text. Partial Preterists must hold to the time context. Partial Preterists agree that this parable is regarding events that happened in 70 AD, when the promise of the kingdom was taken away from the pharisees and scribes that Jesus pronounced "woes" on. Therefore, they must hold to the time text regarding the harvest aproaching. Mark 4
29As soon as the grain is ripe, he puts the sickle to it, because the harvest has come. John 4
34"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. 35Do you not say, 'Four months more and then the harvest'? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. 36Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. We are told that as soon as the grain is ripe he will put the sickle to it. In another verse we are told the fields are ripe for harvest. The Partial Preterist must hold to the time text. We are told that the harvest is ripe, and therefore, the harvest must happen soon. Note the time texts "even now" showing that the reaper was just about ready to reap the harvest. Also, the harvest was for eternal life. The fulfillment of the promise of eternal life would not occur until the harvest occured. In other words, nobody actually had eternal life until the harvest. They only had the promise of eternal life by faith. Eternal life was not a reality yet. Matthew 3
12His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire." James 5
1Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you. 2Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4Look! The wages you failed to pay the workmen who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.6You have condemned and murdered innocent men, who were not opposing you. 7Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord's coming. See how the farmer waits for the land to yield its valuable crop and how patient he is for the autumn and spring rains. 8You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near. 9Don't grumble against each other, brothers, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door! Another time text that the Partial Preterist ignores is the fact that the winnowing fork is in his hand. This means that the harvest was near. Again, he would gather his wheat into the barn at the same time he would burn the chaff with unquenchable fire. Partial Preterists say that the James verses above have time texts such as standing near the door. This is very similar language as winnowing fork in his hand. Partial Preterists say that the James verses that speak of the Lord's coming were only "a" coming in judgment on Jerusalem not the "2nd" coming. However, notice above that it is tied in with the harvest (verse 4). Therefore the harvest either already happened or no one is in the barn (kingdom). This means that Lord's coming in the verses above has to be about the 2nd coming. Revelation 14
14I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one "like a son of man"with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." 16So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
17Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, "Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth's vine, because its grapes are ripe." 19The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath. Partial Preterists agree that Revelation 14 was a past (70 AD) event. Please note that there is no harvest language in the later chapters of Revelation that Partial Preterists say are still future. You would think that it would at least be spoken of in the later chapters if the harvest was to happen in the chapters that Partial Preterists say are still future events. There is no mention of it anywhere. (side note) There is also no mention of the last trump in the chapters that Partial Preterists say are future. We find the seventh (last trump) in Revelation 11 where we are told "The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great--" The Partial Preterist, no matter how they try to interpret these verses, must agree that they are past events. The question is, will they be honest with the scriptures? So far they haven't been. Let us hope that they have a change of heart so that God receives more of the glory for the wonderful things that have been accomplished. Matthew 13
36Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."
37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Galatians 1
4who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, As I have shown, the harvest must have already occured or no one is in heaven. Notice above that the field is the world. At the beginning of this article I demonstrated that the gospel went out to the whole world already. We were told that the end would come once this happened. Above we are told that the harvest is the end of the age. The age that was going to end was the present evil age that they lived in. This means that the harvest is a past event. Revelation 20
11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
I have clearly demonstrated that the Partial Preterist does not hold to the time texts when it comes to the harvest. If he did then he would have to move into the Preterist view. Since the Partial Preterist does not want to do that, I have demonstrated that his view would not allow for anyone to be in the kingdom. As I have shown, the harvest was a past event. We are told that at the harvest, people are thrown into the lake of fire. Since the harvest is a past event, Revelation 20:11-15 must also be a past event. <><
MORE PARTIAL PRETERIST SILLINESS
Romans 14 (Partial Preterists say this is future) 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' " 12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. Philippians 2 (Partial Preterists say this is future) 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,Revelation 5 (Partial Preterists say this is PAST) 12In a loud voice they sang:
"Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!"
13Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing:
"To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!" 1 Peter 4 (Partial Pretrists say this is future. Don't know how, there is a time text?) 5 but they will give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
2 Timothy 4 (Partial Pretrists say this is future) 1 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: Revelation 11 (Partial Preterists say this is PAST) 14 The second woe is past; behold, the third woe is coming quickly.
18 "And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth." Revelation 20 (Partial Pretrists say this is future) 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. Romans 2 (Partial Pretrists say this is future) 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: Matthew 16 (Partial Preterists say this is PAST) 27 "For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and WILL THEN REPAY EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS.
28 "Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."> Revelation 21 (Partial Preterists say this is future) 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." Revelation 22 (Partial Preterists say this is future) 3 There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him;
4 they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. Revelation 7 (Partial Preterists say this is PAST) 3 saying, "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees until we have sealed the bond-servants of our God on their foreheads."
14 I said to him, "My lord, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 "For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.
16 "They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat;
17 for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes." THE DEVIL IS IN THE LAKE OF FIRE THE WORD KOSMOS (WORLD) AND AION (AGE) - AND THE MIS-TRANSLATION IN SOME BIBLES The World in Matthew 13:38-40 | | Verse | KJV | NKJV | Greek | 38 | The field is the world, the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; | The field is the world, the good seed are the sons of the kingdom; but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. | kosmos | 39 | the enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. | The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are the angels. | aión | 40 | As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. | Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so will it be at the end of this world. | aión |
Above we see the mis-translation of the the word AION. AION means AGE, but in some areas it was translated as world. Probably because translators brought their own presuppositions and paradigms to the text. Kosmos is the word for world. AION means AGE. AION - Definition:1) an unbroken age, perpetuity of time 2) period of time, age 3) spec. (Jewish) a Messianic period.
WHAT DIED IN THE GARDEN?
What died that DAY in the garden? Genesis 2
17but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
Adam and Eve didn't die physically that day, they died SPIRITUALLY. To a Jewish person, SEPARATION FROM GOD was what they considered DEATH. SHEOL, HADES, AND ABRAHAM'S BOSOM - A WAITING PLACE I would like to explain that Sheol (OT) Hades (NT) and Abraham's Bosom all refer to the same type of place (a holding place). Abraham's Bosom was where believers went. All three of these places (which is really one place) were where the physically dead went. They were place(s) of separation from God. They could not leave these places until Jesus died on the cross and the temple was destroyed. They were still in the OLD COVENANT time period before 70 AD but the OLD COVENANT was getting ready to pass away. Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. Hebrews 9
8The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing
Revelation 15
8And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from his power, and no one could enter the temple until the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed Psalm 89
48What man can live and not see death?
Can he deliver his life from the power of the grave (sheol)? Selah
Hosea 13
14"I will ransom them from the power of the grave (sheol);
I will redeem them from death.
Luke 16
22So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
SATAN AND THE FALLEN ANGELS - IN THE LAKE OF FIRE
Matthew 13
37He answered and said to them: "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Please note: the HARVEST is THE END OF THE AGE. This is when JUDGMENT happened. So is the END OF THE AGE a past or a future event? Let's take a look. Matthew 25
41"Then He will also say to those on the left hand, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Above we see that those who are judged are destined for the lake of fire. This is the same lake that the devil and his angels go. Keep in mind that the Matthew 13 verse says that the JUDGMENT is at the END OF THE AGE. Romans 16
20And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. Satan was to be crushed SHORTLY. If I told you that something was going to happen SHORTLY don't you think that I would have meant it would happen at least in your lifetime? The same goes for those that received the letter to the Romans from Paul the Apostle. Think about it - If God used the word SHORTLY to convey 2000 + years, what words could God have used if He wanted to convey to them that something was going to happen soon? It is ridiculous to try to make SHORTLY mean 2000 + years and have absolutely nothing to do with those people that Paul was writing. Galatians 1
4who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father Did God fail to DELIVER these Galatian believers from the PRESENT evil age? No! Remember above - what happened in Matt 13 at the END OF THE AGE? HARVEST (JUDGMENT).
Titus 2
11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, In the above verse it is clear that they felt that THEY were going to be DELIVERED from the PRESENT AGE. Look what else THEY (those to whom the letter was written) were expecting. THE GLORIOUS APPEARING OF JESUS CHRIST
Mark 10
30who shall not receive a hundredfold now in this time--houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and lands, with persecutions--and in the age to come, eternal life. If the AGE TO COME is not here yet, then no one has ETERNAL LIFE. But the AGE TO COME has come already. The AGE TO COME was the NEW COVENANT age. The OLD COVENANT ended at 70AD as seen in the above Hebrews 8 and Hebrews 9 verses.
2 Peter 2
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment .Jude 1
6And the angels who did not keep their proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day We know that JUDGMENT came at the END OF THE AGE. Above we see that the angels were reserved for JUDGMENT Revelation 20
10The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Look at this - Above it says that the devil was thrown into the lake first before the people. Keep in mind that the HARVEST (JUDGMENT) was at the END OF THE AGE (see Matt 13 above). The END OF THE AGE was when the OLD COVENANT ended and the NEW COVENANT began.
The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, [2] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[3] 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.The dead were JUDGED in Revelation 20. When does the HARVEST (JUDGMENT) take place? At the end of the AGE (see Matt 13). What was the END OF THE AGE? It was when the OLD COVENANT passed away and the NEW COVENANT was established. When was this? When Jesus came back and destroyed the temple (70AD) (see Hebrews 9 and Revelation 15 above). Please note that DEATH and HADES (remember what we said about Hades - it is the same thing as Sheol and Abraham's Bosom) are CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. If this has not happened yet, THEN NO ONE IS IN HEAVEN YET. They are still waiting in Hades. Our spiritual death (seperation from God) has not been conquered yet. But it did happen! Jesus came back and destroyed the temple and ushered in the NEW COVENANT and FULFILLED all the PROMISES that came with it. PROMISES such as ETERNAL LIFE, SALVATION - NO MORE SEPERATION FROM GOD !!! Hebrews 9
28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him. THE TRANSFIGURATION I heard this point by Don Preston in his latest debate with Tommy Ice. I thought it was wonderful. I had to share. So much for the futurist argument that Matthew 16 is speaking of the transfiguration. Besides the points that Matthew 16 has angels and rewards etc.. Check this out, if the transfiguration is a picture of the second coming, the transfiguration tells us when to expect the second coming.
Matthew 17 - the transfiguration - a picture of the second coming.
Matthew 17
1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Moses and Elias (Elijah) represent the law.
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
Peter wanted to make tabernacles for all three.
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
Jesus would not share his glory.
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
Therefore: If the transfiguration was a picture of the second coming, then it seems that it would happen when the law disappeared (Moses overshadowed). If this be true then at the same time the prophets (Elias) were fulfilled.
This fits perfectly with the Preterist view of the second coming. Remembering that just prior in Matthew 16 (a few days before the transfiguration) we are told that the second coming would happen while some of them standing there were still alive.
Matthew 16
27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
Isaiah 2
1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
Compare the above scripture with:
Isaiah 51
3 For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.
4 Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people (nations in other translations).
5 My righteousness is near; my salvation is gone forth, and mine arms shall judge the people; the isles shall wait upon me, and on mine arm shall they trust.
6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
11 Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.
16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
17 Awake, awake, stand up, O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the LORD the cup of his fury; thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling, and wrung them out.
Isaiah 51 was about the gospel going out and then the righteousness would be near.
Isaiah 2 is speaking of the same event as Isaiah 51. Guess when the Isaiah 2 passage said this would happen?
In THE LAST DAYS. Therefore we must conclude that the Isaiah passage above was a "projected imminence." Below we see that the last days were the last days of the Old Covenant that was "ready" to pass away. This matches up perfectly with the "projected imminence" that I spoke of in Isaiah 51.
Hebrews 1
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 9
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
How in the LAST DAYS (which Partial Preterists say already happened) Zion was made to be made like EDEN and SORROW and MOURNING FLED AWAY.
Paul writes: It says "My righteousness draws NEAR (time text), my salvation HAS (past
tense to the audience) gone out." That's what it says. I want you to be consistent with your presuppositions... that's all. (Paul - Partial Preterists are supposed to hold to the time texts)
Paul would it be your position to say that past tense always means a PAST event. If this be the case you are a Preterist! LOL!
Romans 8
30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. <= Past tense.
Paul - past tense does not necessarily mean a past event. It can mean the CERTAINTY of an event to happen.
Paul - how can you claim that Isaiah's PROPHESY is in PAST TENSE. Are you saying that Isaiah is prophesying about PAST events - UH - I could do that too and be pretty accurate dont ya think - LOL
Paul writes: Prove that the passage says that AFTER the gospel is preached to the nations then My righteousness will be near.
2 Peter 3
13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness.
Well Paul - isn't the home of righteousness in the NEW HEAVENS AND NEW EARTH? So I guess we are in the NEW HEAVENS and NEW EARTH right? Or are you going to deny this. Gene tried to say that 2 Peter 3 is still future. But Paul doesn't 2nd Peter 3 mention something about the "last days" which ALL Partial Preterists know is a past event?
2 Peter 3
1Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. 2I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles.
3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
Hey Paul - when did the gospel reach "the Islands?" Could that be when the gospel went out to the whole world (AD 70)? And once it did his salvation would be near? You know, the SALVATION that comes at the 2ND COMING
Isaiah 51
4 "Listen to me, my people;
hear me, my nation:
The law will go out from me;
my justice will become a light to the nations.
5 My righteousness draws near speedily,
my salvation is on the way,
and my arm will bring justice to the nations.
The islands will look to me
and wait in hope for my arm.
Isaiah 66
18 "And I, because of their actions and their imaginations, am about to come and gather all nations and tongues, and they will come and see my glory.
19 "I will set a sign among them, and I will send some of those who survive to the nations-to Tarshish, to the Libyans and Lydians (famous as archers), to Tubal and Greece, and to the distant islands that have not heard of my fame or seen my glory. They will proclaim my glory among the nations. 20 And they will bring all your brothers, from all the nations, to my holy mountain in Jerusalem as an offering to the LORD -on horses, in chariots and wagons, and on mules and camels," says the LORD . "They will bring them, as the Israelites bring their grain offerings, to the temple of the LORD in ceremonially clean vessels.
Matthew 12 21In his name the nations will put their hope."
Matthew 28
19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Matthew 24
14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Hebrews 9
28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Conclusion:
Isaiah 51 reads that the Islands / nations would look upon him and then his righteousness would be near. This is a 70 AD event. (See Matt 12, 24, 28 above).
The righteousness that was near in Isaiah 51 would come after the nations looked upon him (projected Imminence). The home of righteousness is the New Heavens and New Earth. (see 2 Peter 3 above).
The salvation that was on the way in Isaiah 51 would come at the second coming / covenant change (see Heb 9:28 above).
The Timing of the Resurrection and Second Coming Daniel 12
1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. <= Partial Preterists say this event is past - see Matt 24:21. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. <= Resurrection. 4 But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."
5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. 6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, "How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?" <= The astonishing things mentioned in verses 1 through 3.
7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed." <= AD 70.
Luke 21
20"When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, <= AD 70. you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. <= All which was written was fulfilled at the destruction of Jerusalem. This includes the resurrection. The power of the holy people shattered.
Hebrews 8
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. <= Covenant change and time text. Partial Preterists must hold to the time texts.
Hebrews 9
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: <= AD 70 the temple was destroyed. The power of the holy people shattered.
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, <= Time text. in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation <= Covenant change.
28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. <= Second coming expected at the covenant change.
Hebrews 10
1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come <= Covenant change. and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. <= Covenant change.
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. <= Time text. The Partial Preterist must hold to the time text.
To summarize: The Resurrection and the Second Coming were to occur at the covenant change. There are time texts involved. The Partial Preterist must hold to the time texts.
Bible students know that Daniel 12 is a very important text in Jesus' teaching, especially in the Olivet Discourse. In Matthew 24:21 Jesus foretold the coming of a tribulation "such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be." This is a direct reference to Daniel 12:1. In Matthew 24:15 our Lord once again referred to Daniel 12, [and chapter 9], when he foretold the coming of the Abomination of Desolation. Jesus, in Matthew 24, quotes from Daniel 12 twice in response to his discipe's questions about his coming and the end of the age.
To help understand the parallel between Daniel 12 and Matthew 24 note the following chart.
Keep in mind that all Partial Preterists say that Matt 24:1-34 are fulfilled.
Daniel 12 Matthew 24
time of the end, v. 4 end of the age, v. 3.
Great Tribulation, v. 1 Great Tribulation, v. 21
Abomination of Desolation, v. 11 Abomination of Desolation, v. 15
Resurrection, v. 2, 13 Gathering of elect, v. 31.
[In scripture the gathering of the elect is the salvation of the remnant, Isaiah 65:8f; the remnant are the scattered, Isa. 11:11,16; the scattered are the "dead", Ezekiel 37:11f. Jesus' reference in Matthew 24:31 to gathering the elect at his coming must be seen in light of this Old Covenant background. Thus, Matthew 24:31 (which Partial Preterists say is a past event), is nothing less than the promise of the resurrection.]
Now notice heaven's own time-frame for the fulfillment of "all these things". In Daniel 12:6 one angel asked another "How long shall the fulfillment of these wonders be?" The other angel responded "when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished" vs. 7. When was this? AD 70. In the scriptures below we see Paul speaking of the importance of not altering the gospel. Paul actually condemns men for altering it. While it is not my point to condemn anyone. I try my best to love everyone who names the name of Christ. Also, it is wise to point out that Paul corrected Peter's doctrine to "his face" and no one would ever question Peters salvation would we? Of course not. But the point I want to make is about us. Yes, us. This is a continuation of my point that I was making in my short article about "Why I Will Never Deny Preterism".
Galatians 1
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
10Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
Notice in the scriptures above that by altering the Gospel of Christ is because of the need of men to be accepted by men. Is this a good reason? No! Because by doing so we are actually told that we would "not be a servant of Christ". I know that we all fall into sin and that we make mistakes (I may be the chief of this) but this is no doubt a serious issue when it comes to the Gospel, according to Paul. It's not to be taken lightly. Should approval of men, getting what we want from men / women be our goal? We all want to be accepted by the masses. This is understandable. But the honor that we have been blessed with by being Preterists is the truth of God. God has blessed us with the truth of God in a much richer understanding than most. I do not mean this boastfully. I mean this in a way that I hope inspires us to share Preterism with whom ever we come across in order to further the understanding that WE HAVE A KING! We are no longer waiting for one.
So now to demonstrate straight from scripture that the timing of the judgment is part of the Gospel. Please Remember, the scriptures above, and below, these are not my words. I am simply quoting the scriptures.
Matthew 16
27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."
Romans 2
6God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Above we see that Paul the Apostle in Romans 2 quotes Matthew 16. In Matthew 16 we are told that the 2nd Coming of Christ would happen while some of the people that were standing there were still alive. In Romans 2 Paul quotes Matthew 16 and actually tells us that the judgment is part of the Gospel. Since it is tied to Matthew 16 the timing of the judgment (while some standing there were still alive) is part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
So what am I saying? Here is what I am trying to get across. I do not feel it necessary to break fellowship with those who do not understand certain things about Christ and the 2nd coming and the judgment. What I am saying is that we need to share it with people. It is an honor that has been given to us. It's not a curse to be a Preterist. In fact it is about as Christian as it gets. After all, how many of our forefathers were booted out of the synagogues for simply speaking the truth. If this happens / has happened to you at our modern "churches", so be it. You are in good company with the likes of Paul the apostle and many many others. Consider it an honor.
Allow me once again to remind you of what we are told in the scriptures regarding speaking the truth and worshiping God and not men found in my last short article.
Acts 24
1Five days later the high priest Ananias went down to Caesarea with some of the elders and a lawyer named Tertullus, and they brought their charges against Paul before the governor. 2When Paul was called in, Tertullus presented his case before Felix: "We have enjoyed a long period of peace under you, and your foresight has brought about reforms <= Notice there had been reforms in the past. in this nation. 3Everywhere and in every way, most excellent Felix, we acknowledge this with profound gratitude. 4But in order not to weary you further, I would request that you be kind enough to hear us briefly.
5"We have found this man to be a troublemaker, stirring up riots among the Jews all over the world. He is a ringleader of the Nazarene sect <= sect is the same word as cult. 6and even tried to desecrate the temple; so we seized him. 8By examining him yourself you will be able to learn the truth about all these charges we are bringing against him."
9The Jews joined in the accusation, asserting that these things were true.
10When the governor motioned for him to speak, Paul replied: "I know that for a number of years you have been a judge over this nation; so I gladly make my defense. 11You can easily verify that no more than twelve days ago I went up to Jerusalem to worship. <= Paul states basically that he is just trying to worship the Lord. 12My accusers did not find me arguing with anyone at the temple, or stirring up a crowd in the synagogues or anywhere else in the city. <= By stirring up he means saying things contrary to scripture. You will see what I mean in a few verses later. 13And they cannot prove to you the charges they are now making against me. <= They can not prove what he is saying is unbiblical. 14However, I admit that I worship the God of our fathers as a follower of the Way, which they call a sect. <= Paul admits that he is worshiping God the way that they say that he is. I believe everything that agrees with the Law and that is written in the Prophets, <= Paul states that the way he is worshiping agrees with the Law and the Prophets (scripture).15and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be <= Greek "mello" (about to). a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. <= Paul is being accused of saying the resurrection was "about to" happen back then. We are accused of saying that it already happened back then. 16So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man. <= Keeping his conscience clear is by worshiping with what agrees with the scriptures. Same should go for us.
What is more important - praise of men or praise of God?
John 12
42Yet at the same time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved praise from men more than praise from God.
Galatians 1
10Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.
11I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up.
1 Thessalonians 2
3For our appeal does not spring from error or impurity or any attempt to deceive, 4but just as we have been approved by God to be entrusted with the gospel, so we speak, not to please man, but to please God who tests our hearts. 5For we never came with words of flattery, as you know, nor with a pretext for greed--God is witness
Notice the pattern:
Pharisees accused Christians.
Catholics accused Reformers.
Creedalist Reformed accused Preterists.
May God bless you all <>< Michael
Rom 11 = Heb 9 &10 = 1Cor 15 = Rev 7 &11 - time texts and markers EVERYWHERE
Please keep in mind that PARTIAL PRETERISTS are to hold to the TIME TEXTS. This short article will also deal with the SECOND COMING to occur at the COVENANT CHANGE too. So it is relevant to ANY futurist view.
Gene Cook Jr. PARTIAL PRETERIST:
"I hold to all of the time texts"
Jonathan Seraiah PARTIAL PRETERIST:
?If a text says something is ?near,? then we must accept it as true?
Ken Gentry PARTIAL PRETERIST:
"Evangelical (and reformed) preterists (e.g., R. C. Sproul) take seriously the time texts of Scripture and apply those prophecies to A.D. 70, a redemptive-historical event of enormous consequence."
?Think of it: If these words in these verses do not indicate that John expected the events to occur soon, what words could John have used to express such? How could he have said it more plainly??
Gary Demar PARTIAL PRETERIST:
John would later write that the events depicted in Revelation "must shortly take place" (1:1), "for the time is near" (1:3). Spargimino dismisses these clear statements of biblical fact and maintains that the Bible does not mean what it says.
Compare Hebrews 9 and 10 to Romans 11. Hebrews is in regards to the COVENANT CHANGE.
Hebrews 9
8The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still standing. <= Destruction of Jerusalem AD 70.
28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, <= Second coming is the destruction of Jerusalem AD 70. not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Hebrews 10
1The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming--not the realities themselves. <= Covenant change. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 13Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, <= Same event as 1Corinthians 15.
1 Corinthians 15
27For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.
14because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
15The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16"This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds." 17Then he adds:
"Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more." <= Covenant change.
37For in just a very little while,
"He who is coming will come and will not delay. <= Time text. Covenant change to occur when Christ comes back.
Romans 11
5So too, at the present time <= Time text there is a remnant chosen by grace. <= Please note: Romans 11 is in regards to a REMNANT at the PRESENT TIME.
25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. <= The GOSPEL went out to the WHOLE WORLD already.
Romans 10
16But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?" 17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. 18But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
"Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
their words to the ends of the world." 19Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says,
"I will make you envious by those who are not a nation;
I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding."
26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion; <= The Second Coming.
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins." <= The Covenant change was going to occur when the Second Coming occurred.
Also - isn't Romans 11 the EXACT SAME EVENT as Revelation 7 and 11 which ALL PARTIAL PRETERISTS say is a past event. Isn't it the GATHERING OF THE REMNANT OF ISRAEL?
Revelation 7 (Partial Preterists say that this is PAST)
4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. <= Remnant of Israel both Jew and Gentile grafted together.
13Then one of the elders asked me, "These in white robes--who are they, and where did they come from?"
14I answered, "Sir, you know."
15And he said, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. <= All Partial Preterists say that the tribulation occurred in 70 AD. Therefore,
"they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them.
16Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst. <= Same promises as in Revelation 21 and 22.
The sun will not beat upon them,
nor any scorching heat.
17For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd;
he will lead them to springs of living water.
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes." <= Same promises as in Revelation 21 and 22.
Revelation 11 (Partial Preterists say that this is PAST)
1I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there. <= Temple was still standing. 2But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months. <= Jewish war lasted for 42 months.
18The nations were angry; and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead, <= Time text.
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your saints and those who reverence your name,
both small and great-- <= The RESURRECTION and JUDGMENT was to occur when the temple was destroyed. This is the same event as the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20.
The Partial Preterist often tries to say that Romans 11 is about a future Coming of Christ and about ALL ISRAEL, meaning the entire church throughout history. However, Romans 11 is clearly about a REMNANT that was to be saved and the ALL in context must be in regards to that group. We also see reference to the COVENANT CHANGE which is a marker for us to recognize when the event in Romans 11 was to occur AT THE COVENANT CHANGE.
These events in Romans 11 match up perfectly with the COVENANT CHANGE and the SECOND COMING spoken of in Hebrews 9 and 10 which have TIME TEXTS attached to them. Which also matches up with 1Corinthians 15 (THE RESURRECTION).
We see that Revelation 7 and 11 WHICH ALL PARTIAL PRETERISTS SAY IS A PAST EVENT matches up perfectly with this event that occurs in Romans 11. In Revelation 7 we see Israel (THE REMNANT) being gathered. In Revelation 11 we see the TEMPLE and the JEWISH WAR, and at that time the DEAD WERE JUDGED.
Conclusion: Romans 11 and the SECOND COMING is a PAST EVENT. The Partial Preterist is supposed to hold to the TIME TEXTS and the MARKERS. Any FUTURIST type of view must also acknowledge that the SECOND COMING was to occur at the COVENANT CHANGE.
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- Date:
- 15 Oct 2003
- Time:
- 11:17:47
CommentsAmazing how preterists' stubborn rejection of complete and consistent typology can lead them into error. The wedding of Christ to his people AND TO THEIR LAND (as prophesied in Is. 62:4) occurred in the first century (though not in AD 70) but the fulfillment of Rev. 20:7-15 is yet in the future. Would-be students of the Bible are wasting their time unless they have sufficient spiritual discernment to recognize that the man Israel and his natural offspring were merely TYPES of Christ and his spiritual offspring. Christ and the church were, are and eternally will be the true Israel. The typifying wedding of OT, natural Israel AND its natural promised land to God occurred AFTER the typifying 40 years in the wilderness and AFTER the typifying natural triumph over the typifying natural usurpers in its natural promised land. Therefore, in the first-century spiritual fulfillment, the wedding of the first-century Christians AND their spiritual promised land to Christ occurred AFTER the 40 fulfillment years AD 30-70 and AFTER the young church's spiritual triumph over the spiritual usurpers in its spiritual promised land. Instead of offering countless diverse opinions about NT proof texts, preterists should devote their efforts to determining what usurping spiritual dominion in the first century was typified by the usurping natural dominion of the seven pagan nations in Canaan (Jos. 3:10). But they won't. Who needs the God-given types when personal opinions are so plentiful?
- Date:
- 15 Oct 2003
- Time:
- 19:50:51
CommentsI challenge the person who wrote the comments above to a written debate - Let me know if you are interested. Michael Bennett steel_saint@yahoo.com
- Date:
- 16 Oct 2003
- Time:
- 07:28:42
CommentsGod gave believers the OT types so they don't have to engage in endless and useless debates. Do you believe that the Ex. 12 slaying of the natural lambs (first feast of Lev. 23) was a type fulfilled by the slaying of Christ? If so, do you believe that natural Israel's hasty departure from natural Egypt (second feast) was a type fulfilled by the hasty burial of Christ? If so, do you believe that natural Israel's safe emergence from the Red Sea (third feast) was a type fulfilled by the safe emergence of Christ from the tomb? If so, do you believe that the gift of the law at Sinai (fourth feast) was a type fulfilled by the gift of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost? If so, isn't it obvious that the rest of the natural events in the ENTIRE history of OT, natural Israel were also merely types -- INCLUDING the final destruction of the nation in AD 70? Debating that fact won't help. Either the Bible student recognizes that fact as the God-given key to understanding the NT, or he/she rejects it and relies instead on personal opinions.
- Date:
- 31 Oct 2003
- Time:
- 16:33:22
CommentsAll you preterists and non-preterist who have read the above material should understand that Michael bennett takes the time texts seriously. Well, you guys need to read Isa. 51.1-8. Notice that it talks about the heavens and earth passing away (which he above said is new covenant). Notice that Isa says that the law will be written upon the hearts of these people (all preterists say that this is new covenant as well). Notice that it says that "salvation will be forever" (above we read that salvation happend at 70 a.d.). Notice all the similar topics that this passage has in common with what Mr. B says will happen in the new covenant era. Now, notice that Isa. says these things are NEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Date:
- 07 Nov 2003
- Time:
- 22:23:56
CommentsPaul Manata - give it up. You know Isaiah in Chapter 2 speaks of these things that were going to happen in the "last days". We know that Isaiah 51 is saying that when the salvation reaches the "nations" then it would be near (you know - Col 1 salvation has gone out to the "whole world" etc etc. "Projected imminence." It is obvious that Isaiah 51 is in regards to the change in the COVENANT. So please - tell us Paul - when this COEVENANT changed how did Zion (the new covenant) become LIKE EDEN? How was there was NO MORE SORROW? Curious minds want to know. We also want to know what elect were gathered in Matt 24:31 which Partial Prets say is past? When was the power of the holy people shattered in Daniel 12:7? What dead judged in Revelation 11 (which partial preterists say is past)? =)
- Date:
- 09 Feb 2004
- Time:
- 14:27:11
CommentsPrivate email messages from me to Michael Bennett have been posted on this website without my permission. These were not public debates nor were they intended to open a door for the discussion of relevant texts - they were a private matter regarding the fact that Michael was spamming our reformed theology discussion forum and its users (myself included). After he sent us dozens of messages we had to find a way to make him stop flooding us with several lengthy unsolicited messages a day. Please remove this private material from your website. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter. Phillip M. Way, Pastor Maranatha Community Church [Sent email: "Pastor Way: I am not attempting to be difficult, and would have no problem removing private messages; however, there does not appear to be any "private material." Your posted letters are signed in an official way, as a representative: "For the Puritan Board." What gives? Was it an official email or not? Please respond ASAP. Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter. Your Servant, Todd Dennis, curator of the Preterist Archive"]
- Date:
- 21 Mar 2004
- Time:
- 19:14:56
CommentsThe Reverend Dr. Michael Lee Bennett is a cheating womanizer who has been led into error. I know this to be a fact. All this intellectual stuff about Preterism is drivel intended to distract people from the Truth. He is straining at gnats, hoping you'll swallow camels. At this time, he is in league with other so-called pastors (Kris Baudler for one) in a movement to divide the Lutheran church further, and start a new denomination! I found this out doing an internet research on him when, after three years, his fiance called me (she also had an affair with him while he was married to his first wife) to confirm whether or not he had an affair with me. I can send you some personal emails testifying to what I'm saying. There are many others like me, and many churches he's 'pastored' and 'duped'. But because we are Christian women, we blame only ourselves for our sin and don't come forward. My 31-and-a-half-year marriage is over, my family destroyed, my faith shaken to its foundation, my reputation in the Christian community destroyed, and I have nothing to lose at this point which frees me to expose this fraud to anyone with ears to hear. He and his cronies have threatened me, but I also have an attorney who advises me that a statement that is proven true is not libelous. And Praise God, I still have Him and His grace and forgiveness! http://www.concordtx.org/wrldnews/elcadef.htm You may email me at weesieann@yahoo.com with Re: Rev Doc in the subject line.
- Date:
- 02 Apr 2004
- Time:
- 18:44:12
CommentsThis isnt the guy you are commenting about above. It is a different Michael Bennett.
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