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KNIGHTS of the OLD REPUBLIC #5 -- All this over a dream!?
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Starbuck
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:59 pm    Post subject: Re: KNIGHTS of the OLD REPUBLIC #5 -- All this over a dream! Reply with quote

Jeremy Barlow wrote:
Special thanks to guest artist Travel Foreman for coming aboard this issue and helping to keep things on-track and on-time. Brian's back next issue to wrap the story up.


I thought it looked different! While it looked good, I prefer Brian's style, so I'm happy to see he'll be back.

I really liked getting some more information as to the Master's motives. I can't wait to find out the rest of the story though, killing them just over a vision seems too rash. I'm not sold on Gryph's "cut & run" reasoning either. Sure he's a conman, and it may be realistic, but it didn't feel like the Gryph we've been learning about. Seemed like he just kind of gave up when he's done anything but to this point.

Who's the guy in the red environment suit supposed to be? Based solely on the description of this guy who's supposed to cause all this havoc (minus the red) it sounds like Vader to me.
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narcranor
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What a great issue, FINALLY we get some sense into the master's motivations! A few questions that have arisen in my mind as a result though. 1.) why does the force flow strongly in that asteroid field? Did a lightsider pass there? Whats the deal?

2.) Zayne was going to revisit more than one location where he trained just prior. It was supposed to be the start of his path, so what location is next? Kashyyyk? Manaan? Tatooine (shudder), I'm hoping its another game location, or a TOTJ location.

I was also kind of surprised the jedi all reacted so quickly to the vision without meditating on it a bit. It seems lucien is leading the charge toward rash action. Could he have already fallen, and is trying to take as many jedi down the slippery path as possible? Itd be an interesting approach. We usually see the Sith try and turn other jedi via direct confrontation. If lucien were trying to turn his comrades to the dark side, itd be a much more palpatinian (yes, its a word now, I decided) manner to go about it.

In any case, great issue! And a great fill-in artist! Usually the fill-in artsts on comics annoyingly take you out of the story, but he really did a bang-up job! I didn't even notice it was a different artist until about half-way through! Way to keep the stylistic tone similar! Either way, brian has got to be kind of miffed he didn't get to draw the issue with a lot of revelations.

Anyway, great job on all counts! Keep making em, ill keep reading em.
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Darth T-Man
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Starbuck writes:

I'm not sold on Gryph's "cut & run" reasoning either. Sure he's a conman, and it may be realistic, but it didn't feel like the Gryph we've been learning about. Seemed like he just kind of gave up when he's done anything but to this point.

After giving it a bit more thought I have to say you make a good point. He IS a conman after all, and I wouldn't be surprised if he has another trick up his sleeve. Its possible that whatever Gryph may have in mind depends on Zayne thinking he's sold down the river. I'm just spectulating here, but that does seem a bit more likely giving what we have seen of Gryph's character up to now.
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John Jackson Miller
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

narcranor wrote:
Why does the force flow strongly in that asteroid field? Did a lightsider pass there? Whats the deal?


Q'Anilia explained a bit of this in the flashback in #4. Because of the isolated nature of the place where only one kind of event ever happens, the flow of fate there is stark and binary. A simple "either/or" of life and death, with no distracting gradations. That would have some implications for a seer who wants to see things as clearly as possible. A lot different from meditating in a temple...

narcranor wrote:
Either way, brian has got to be kind of miffed he didn't get to draw the issue with a lot of revelations.


Oh, I think when you see what he got to draw in #6, you'll agree he didn't get shorted! (And again, it's great looking stuff. Can't wait for you guys to see it.)
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will44
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like many others on this board, I thought this issue was FAN-tastic. I liked all the revelations, but I can't say I'm surprised the masters are motivated by a fear of the sith returning. Part of me wonders if they are trying to stop the sith from coming back, or their own deaths...
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John Jackson Miller
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darth T-Man wrote:
After giving it a bit more thought I have to say you make a good point. He IS a conman after all, and I wouldn't be surprised if he has another trick up his sleeve. Its possible that whatever Gryph may have in mind depends on Zayne thinking he's sold down the river. I'm just spectulating here, but that does seem a bit more likely giving what we have seen of Gryph's character up to now.


Gryph is a curious specimen of a complicated species. There's a hopeful strain in Snivvian culture -- and it's interesting to ask how easily that can coexist with the realism necessary to operate as a con artist.

But I don't think I'm giving anything away to say "You haven't seen the last of Marn Hierogryph!" (Actually, that sounds like something HE would say...)
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laserbrain
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They aren't just afraid of the Sith returning, they're afraid of their own deaths. "I saw my own death! How can I let pass a warning from the force?" They totally have a knee-jerk reaction to this. Very un-jedi, especially for a group who're supposed to be a bunch of thinkers. Apparently Lucian is the warrior of the bunch, and he's the only one questioning.

Anakin caused his vision to come true by trying to stop it. If Luke would have stayed on Dagobah, Leia and Co. would still have gotten off Bespin on their own. Are the masters causing their vision to come true, or is all their effort futile?
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Starbuck
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

laserbrain wrote:
They aren't just afraid of the Sith returning, they're afraid of their own deaths. "I saw my own death! How can I let pass a warning from the force?" They totally have a knee-jerk reaction to this. Very un-jedi, especially for a group who're supposed to be a bunch of thinkers. Apparently Lucian is the warrior of the bunch, and he's the only one questioning.

Anakin caused his vision to come true by trying to stop it. If Luke would have stayed on Dagobah, Leia and Co. would still have gotten off Bespin on their own. Are the masters causing their vision to come true, or is all their effort futile?


The point about Anakin and Luke's visions is interesting. It begs the question, does the Force nullify free will, if only in the cases of future visions, causing the outcome it predicted, or is it that every Jedi who has future visions just sucks at overcoming them? To my knowledge, there is no future vision that has been sidestepped.

And you're right about it being a knee-jerk reaction for Jedi as well. The comment about being the hand and not the mind makes me wonder just where their allegience lies.
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Darth T-Man
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The masters have made a lot of enigmatic statements throiughout this arc there was comment about Q'Anila being a "Seer of the circle" in issue #3 and tis issue he says "We're together at becase you can see what no else can-ad will guard against what no one else wil.." I'm assuming that ihe's referring to the return of the Sith (alhtough you do know what happens when you assume). Then there's Xamar's reference to the Covenant in this issue it's beginning to look like there is a secret cabal that goes beyond the Masters of Taris, I'm basing this on the repeated reference tos to Coruscant and of course Xamar's remark that Lucien is the "hand and not the mind." I'm sure I'm not the only one who has come to the conclusion.
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episodenone
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 3:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh jeezus do i LOVE this book.

i was so depressed to wait 1 whole month for issue 6 -- but i am so happy that a SW comic is having that effect on me!!!

the one question i find keeps nagging me, and maybe our kindly author could shed some light as to any direction he has been leaned towards...

in KotoR 1 - the dantooine council seems to be acting wholly independently from the high council on coruscant, despite revan being told that the council on coruscant is the true council, and the dantooine council is simply a "school board"

we do meet the coruscant council in KotoR 2 - but not in their glory.

in KotoR comics - we are back to seeing the dantooine council perhaps taking matters a bit too much into their own hands without really consulting with team A [if you catch my meaning]

how and why is this continued free wheeling allowed?

it seems that if they dantooine council did this "way back then" re: the padawans, the judgement on coruscant might be a little more stern as to how serious mattters are dealt with in the future -- a la revan in KotoR 1.

thoughts JJM ?
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LitMonkey
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:14 am    Post subject: SW:KotOR #5 Reply with quote

I would like to know if Travel Foreman has done anything else other than this issue of SW.
I would also like to cast my vote that Foreman should do more comics, and if possible more Star Wars comics.
Thanks
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leeto
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

great issue Smile keep up the good work
I was a bit surprised by the drawing thought, and the change in the characters
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John Jackson Miller
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

episodenone wrote:
In KotoR comics - we are back to seeing the dantooine council perhaps taking matters a bit too much into their own hands without really consulting with team A [if you catch my meaning]

how and why is this continued free wheeling allowed?


The satellite council on Dantooine has a degree of local jurisdiction over affairs in the part of the Outer Rim where Taris can be found. This is their backyard, so to speak. Further, it's been established that the Padawans started on Dantooine before being assigned to the Taris satellite academy -- another reason for a particular interest in events.

Remember also that the reason we see the Dantooine council in #4 is because Zayne initiates the contact, and Master Vandar is who he knows. He's looking for help and understanding from someone he trusts. The fact that we've only seen Dantooine therefore shouldn't be taken as sign of Coruscant's degree of involvement one way or another -- it's just what we've seen.
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laserbrain
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think visions of the future nullify free will. There are many different futures. Sometimes a vision is a warning, like when Luke confronted himself as Vader in the Dagobah cave. Extreme behavior, like Anakin's (and the Taris masters?), caused it to become true. When Luke realized how he was behaving in ROTJ, he took a step back and prevented himself from falling.
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Starbuck
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See I never saw Luke's "Cave Experience" as a vision of the future, more as a revelation of the truth that Luke was a part of Darth Vader (in that he was his son). I suppose it could be looked at from that POV, however. Still, that would be the only vision of the future that we've seen that hasn't become reality.
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