BY DAVID SERVER | CountingDown
had the privilege of sitting down today with director Guillermo del Toro
("Blade 2") to discuss his eagerly anticipated pet project "Hellboy",
which was finally greenlit last week by Revolution Studios.
CountingDown: So first of all, you obviously have been fighting
like crazy to get this movie made. What is it about the story of Hellboy
that makes you so passionate?
Guillermo del Toro: This is the only comic book in my adult life
that when I read it, I became as enthusiastic about the next issue, and
as eager to see how it continued, as I was when I was a child with comic
books. So I think that this will be the first time in my adult life that
I actually have a childlike admiration of a super-hero. But I dont
think of Hellboy in those terms, I dont think he is a super-hero, but
for all intents and purposes, my admiration for him is as big as I had
as a child for Spider-Man. Hes my role model! The great thing about Hellboy
that escapes most people is that he is the Beast of the Apocalypse, but
he is just a regular guy. And thats the main thing to keep in mind, is
when doing this entire movie and this character, you have to have Hellboy
played like he almost would prefer to be watching TV, and drinking a beer
than fighting monsters, like, Oh boy, here we go again, or in his own
language, Aw crap! (laughs).
CD: You seem to really enjoy working the concept of family ties
and belonging into your work, it was definitely prevalent in Blade
2, and in the draft that I read of Hellboy, it certainly seemed a strong
theme thereis that something that you feel is a very important part of
the Hellboy mythology?
GdT: Well, I think that the relationship between Professor Broom
and Hellboy is very much in that same mold, because eventually Broom is
the father of the freaksBroom is the father figure that has collected
freaks over the years, but treats them like wonderful children from other
worlds. And he doesnt treat them as monsters, he treats them as his own
children, his own brood. And I would say that his favorite son, and the
one hes more worried about, is Hellboy. And as a father, Im a father
of two, I know that one of the main tasks you get as a father, is to worry
about your children. And, yknow, you always worry how they will turn
out, how they will grow up, will they find happiness in life, and its
very touching for me that this is the concern for Broom of this 65 red
demon with a stone hand. Yknow, its just beautiful to juxtapose such
a sweet human concern with such an inhuman environment, in such a way.
And Hellboy is proverbially like Oliver Reed in Curse of the Werewolf,
a creature that he tries to keep locked in for his own good. Because,
yknow, with the appearance Hellboy has, he cannot go walking down a shopping
mall with his girlfriend.
CD: B.P.R.D. Member and Hellboys new aide Agent Myers is a new
character not from the comics that you seemed to have added for your personal
reasonswas he added for a storytelling standpoint?
GdT: Well, he was added because, number one, in this entire saga
in the comic books, there was no point of view for the audience. In Batman,
one of the many ways you can go into the story is Vicky Vale, or in the
case of Batman: Year One, you can go through Batman and through Gordon.
But, yknow, you needed a laymans point of view of this whole story.
In a way, Peter Parker is a great character in Spider-Man, because you
get the layman turning into the super-hero! But Hellboys not like that,
Hellboys origin is so outlandish, and Hellboys very persona is so outlandish,
and the notion of a B.P.R.D. is so implausible, that you need someone
that is the audiences eyes and ears. And Myers was perfect because I
knew that if I didnt do it as a gratuitous character in the screenplay,
meaning thats all he does, be the audience, then its a piece of crap.
What I wanted to do was ,what if this guy, in being the audience, becomes
the third character in a love triangle? And therefore I do a triangulated
love story between Hellboy, Liz, and Myers. And I was very interested
in the love story, cause I think you need to see Hellboy as a character
evolve in the movie, unlike in the comic books where it took him
like three or four mini-series to finally leave the B.P.R.D. [Ed. Note:
Hellboy left the Bureau at the end of the series The Conqueror Worm].
Yknow, in the movie, you dont have the luxury of a readership that will
stick with you even if the character doesnt go through an emotional triumph.
And I wanted very much for Hellboy to be dealing with what the fuss is
about his nature; everybody is so worried about Hellboy being the Beast
of the Apocalypse, except Hellboy. He knows deep inside that hes just
a regular guy. And thats his final affirmation in the movie yes, I
was born the anti-Christ (laughs), but I can choose to be a guy!, which
is literally the biggest quest a hero can have in a literary form, is
to discover that he can vanquish destiny; he can vanquish the Gods. That
whatever the outer-spheres, meaning God or the Devil, have planned
for that character, this character thwarts and conquers. That goes beyond
a fist-fight, or beyond an action scene that is truly a beautiful thing,
and its not very often that you see it in movies nowadays.
CD: Youve mentioned that you would prefer to make the fish-like
character of Abe Sapien using CG and puppetry, but youve always been
really adamant about having an actor play Hellboy. What is it that you
makes an actor necessary for the part of Hellboy, when Abe can be done
with effects?
GdT: Well, I think that by the very nature of the way that [Hellboy
artist Mike] Mignola has designed him, Abe is a less expressive character.
Abe is sort of quirky and funny but in a very dry way, and hes more like
the Mr. Spock of the B.P.R.D., so hes the guy that keeps perspective
on things. And hes very beautiful to look at! The way I say it, hes
the Michelangelos David of Fish-Men. Hes almost like a perfect beautiful
representation of the link between humanity and fish. Hes not the creature
from the Black Lagoon, whos supposed to inspire horror. This guy
is magnetic; he reminds me in his design a little bit of [the Marvel Comics
character] the Silver Surfer, because from the angular lines and the sleeknessand
I feel that Silver Surfer is one of the few super-heroes that could easily
be fully CG. And the same is true for Abehis texture, his movementwe
will have an actorand we will have a puppet, and we will have CG, but
the dominant aspect of the character will be CG. Because I want
to represent Mignolas drawings perfectly, for one, and that encompasses,
for example, separating the eyes just a little too much, and making the
waist a little too thin, and yknow, doing the things that you couldnt
achieve with a suit. And on the other hand, Hellboy is *all* about
emotion. Hellboy is a guy that gets REALLY fucking angry. And he
screams (quoting the comics), Lady, I cut you some slack cause youre
a mythological figure, but Im gonna beat the crap outta you! Yknow,
and on the other hand, Hellboy needs to emote, and needs to be able to
get a close upand I dont think emotion is achievable with human-like
hyper-real characters yetyou can do it on Shrek, because basically the
architecture of the faces is totally outlandish. But Hellboy is human
enough that youve got to do it with an actor, and I think Ron Perlman
is perfect for it. Now, that said, we have some shit in store for the
fans, that will once again, I will try to push the boundaries of CG a
little further, and I think that we did that with Blade 2 with the Reaper
mouths. Yknow, that or some of the well-done CG fights in Blade; not
the ones you noticed! (laughs) But the ones where you did not noticeweve
been experimenting. We have about 6 months of R&D; on Hellboy,
and what were gonna do is were gonna have Hellboywhen he is shirtless
and walking around, it will not be human. I mean, people will leave a
wet-stain in their fuckin seats. Theyre just gonna crap in their pants,
I tell you that. And the way were going at it, the way were planning
to work on it, how were gonna blend puppetry, CG, make-up, and everything
to make little FXthings that seem to be throwaway, but that will convince
you that Hellboy is real. Because what I dont want is I dont want Ron
Perlman in make-up and thats ityou need to have at least two or three
moments of reality where you realize, that this guyhes not human!
CD: On that note, youve said in interviews that you want
Hellboy to be approximately 650 lbslike a gorilla. How are you going
to achieve that?
GdT: This is one of the things that unfortunately, we couldnt
do on the movie if we wanted to make it for $60 millionif we had had
the budget that I originally proposed, which was $75 Million, that was
one of the things we wanted to do. I wanted to have, basically, a smaller
Mighty Joe Young. But the way we have it, hes gonna have to be 65 or
so. And as for his weight, well, that stone hand is very heavy (laughs).
CD: For casting, we know that Ron Perlman (Blade 2) is in as
Hellboy, and all the fans are really excited about that, and earlier you
had mentioned that you were sort of interested in maybe Steve Buscemi
or Kevin Spacey types for Abe.
GdT: Well, it depends on the final personality that we come up
with in the animationif its a more quirky, more edgy Abe, then it will
be Steve Buscemibut the ideal voice for the Abe of the comics is, without
a doubt, Kevin Spacey. But, yknow, lets say that in the worst case scenario,
Abe is very easy to find a really good voice on an unknown actorhes
not a casting coup that merits such a huge expenditure. If we find out
that Kevin Spacey is a big fan of the comic and he wants to do it for
the money, then well do it. But, yknow, Im not gonna spend $2 million
in hiring Kevin Spacey that Id rather spend on more special effects.
But the rest of the cast, Ive been thinking possibly Jean Reno or Gary
Oldman for Rasputin. I was thinking that a good idea for Ilsawell, Ilsa
is easy to cast. But for Professor Broom Ive been thinking Ian Holm,
or John Hurtthat kind of actor. Just a second(answers the phone)
GdT: That was Ron Perlman.
CD: Haha!
GdT: Anyways, as for casting Kroenen, which is mostly silent,
Im gonna cast a really good dancer and a really good martial artist to
do that. But you know, the rest of the cast is pretty open.
CD: Like Liz?
GdT: Well, Liz is very hard to castLiz can go so many ways, but
it would be too crazy to anticipate which way Im gonna go. SoIll go
with an actress who can deliver, cause its a very complex character.
But who knows, yknow. Its a much more open issue, the rest of the
cast.
CD: How large of a role will Hellboy artist and creator Mike Mignola
play in the overall production and design of the movie?
GdT: Well, number one, Mike is gonna be an Associate Producer.
And I offered him that position for a good fee and all that, to have him
be involved as much as he wants. Yknow, as little as he wants, hes gonna
be involved in pre-production, design, and then a little bit on the shoot,
and a little bit on the post. But my offer to him, and he is seriously
considering it, is that he stays involved through the entire movie. That
he basically is by my side in pre-production, by my side in the scouting,
by my side in the designing. This is a universe that was created
by Mike Mignola. Whatever we do to alter that universe has to be, number
one, to make it really better, and number two, has to be sanctioned by
him. Because I, unlike other directors of comic books, that come into
the properties and say, oh ok, well, thats the kids stuff, let me
fix it and make it adult, and they end up making all the suits black
and put nipples on them or whatever the hell they do. I feel that the
world that Mike Mignola has created is a perfect ecosystem. And to fuck
with a perfect ecosystem, youre gonna have God next to you (laughs).
And, yknow, I want God next to me! And the alterations of the Hellboy
suit, or the coat and all that, will be minimal. But whatever were doing
with that, I assure you will be cooler. And the design of other characters
like Abe and Hellboy will remain absolutely faithful to the comic books.
Same with Rasputin or KroenenKroenen will be a little more outlandish
in this, but essentially, you are going to not get a comic book movie
that you dont recognize as a comic book. You will get Mike Mignolas
Hellboy.
CD: Are there any other comic book artists hat you want specifically
for the art design team for Hellboy?
GdT: Well, my hope is that the team will consist of Mike Mignola,
TyRuben Ellingson who designed some of the stuff on Blade, Wayne Barlowe
who designed some of the stuff on Blade and will design some of the creatures;
and then Richard Corbin would be my ideal addition to this team, to bring
some of his Cthulu monster sensibility for the flashy tentacled monsters
that inhabit the other side, yknow? And I think that all in all, what
were gonna get is a really close to the comic book feeling. The lighting
and the color pattern and everything will be very faithful to the comic.
Already on Blade, some of the scenes were very Mignola-esque, because
I wanted to use it as a dress rehearsal for Hellboy. This will be ten
times more, and we are not the Hollywood standard of a huge budget movie.
We are a mid-budget movie, 60 million bucks and thats it, whereas compared
with Spider-Man or the Batman franchise, youre talking about near the
hundreds.
CD: I noticed that you had references to the Hellboy stories Pancakes
and The Corpse in the script will there be any new comic book references
made in the upcoming third draft of the script?
GdT: Well, if I can, theres gonna be a lot of new stuff here
and there, but its hard to anticipate right nowI read the advance copy
of [the upcoming Hellboy comic book mini-series] The Third Wish
CD: Oh! How is it?
GdT: Oh, its a masterpiece. Truly truly truly beautiful.
And I just feel that its a shame to me that I cannot incorporate, for
example, Roger the Homunculus. Because its a great character, but
its too expensive to put that many monsters in the first feature. I mean,
60 millionyou get to shoot the Mexican with Brad Pitt and Julie Roberts
(laughs). And were trying to do this huge movie. And just bear in mind,
Blade was a $54 million movie, and at the end it looked like a $75 or
$80 million movie. And we are trying to do a $95 million dollar movie
for 60. Hellboyif Hellboy was selling as much copies as Spider-Man, or
Daredevil, itd be a $90 million movie. But since its a very acquired
taste, and its kind of a cult comic book, we are given $60 million, but
were given $60 million with the right actor. Which is much better than
telling the fans were gonna get $90 million and Tom Cruise is gonna play
Hellboy.
CD: So lets say that Hellboys a huge hit, as Im sure it will
be are you game for going back and making Hellboy 2?
GdT: Oh yeah! That is not out of the question. What I think would
be ideal is for Hellboy to actually spin off into an animated series for
cable, cause I think that the best way to translate Mignola is still animation.
But animation for a feature that has no singing mules and musical numbers
and crap is hardly affordable. At one point, we pushed really hard to
make this feature CG. But there are certain things that you cannot do
still with CG, and thats human emotion. And we dropped that argument,
and I think that right now the best incarnation for Hellboy that is feasible
is this: a really great, kick-ass comic book movie. But eventually, to
get the true craziness of the action that Mignola does, the ideal thing
would be to spin off into a cable series.
CD: Do you know when and where youre planning to start the Hellboy
shoot?
GdT: We are going to shoot in Prague in the Czech Republic, once
again. And well start in the first quarter of 2003.
CD: So based on that, what do you think we can expect for the
release date?
GdT: The ideal thing would be Christmas, cause I would love the
poster to say, THIS CHRISTMASHELL IS COMING TO TOWN (laughs), or THIS
CHRISTMAS, LOOK FOR ANOTHER RED GUYwhatever. It would be a great Christmas
movieChristmas the Anti-Christ is born. Its more probable we will
see it like March 2004, something like that.
CD: Youve called Hellboy your thematic autobiography could
you expand on that statement?
GdT: Well, the number one is the fact that you are born, or your
nature is one thing, and you, by your own will, make something different
out of itits something that happened to me as a child and as a teenager.
Yknoweverything that everyone told me was impossible to do, and what
my place in the world was, I rebelled against. And whatever I am
today, I am by my own design. The place where I was born, which is the
provinces of Mexico, is a completely [unintelligible] to do film. The
type of film I wanted to do, which is horror movies and strange complex
FX movies, was the exact wrong type of movies to do in Mexico. And even
in more personal aspects of my life, I was born to not achieve, or not
to do things that I wanted. And I rebelled against geography and birth,
and all that stuff, and I became whatever I have become. People may like
it or not, but its of my own design and Im super happy with it! Its
like, some people tell me are you not worried to be pigeon-holed into
being a horror director, and I say, Why?! Thats exactly what it took
me all these years to be! Yknow, and I feel that Hellboy, being born
an infernal weapon, an infernal device, he decides to be something different.
And I think that the will to be something different, and to be something
good and to be himself, is a great story. And also, the love story with
Liz, is in many ways the way I view my own personal love story with the
woman that is now my wife. I mean, I think that its great for two human
beings to recognize that in a tale, theres more often not a beauty and
a beast but a beast and a beast! (Laughs) And, yknow, to embrace the
nature of each other is great. So all these deep meanings for me will
be wrapped in what I hope will be just a kick-ass movie. Be not worried,
it will not be a philosophical treatise, and it will not be Sex and the
City with monsters, it will be something very very entertaining.
CD: What other projects are you working on other than Hellboy?
GdT: The status of Mephistos Bridge is that I am acquiring the
rights in order to be able to put it off for the shoot of Hellboy, but
hopefully be able to shoot it next. Then Im writing a feature film in
Spanish to go back and do something in Spanish after Hellboy or after
[Mephistos Bridge]. Then, Montecristo, which is a very cherished project,
is put in the back burner for a few years because of the Jim Caviezel
Monte Cristo movie, which came out before we did and therefore destroys
possibilities of Montecristo right now. Then, At the Mountains of Madness,
which is gonna be the movie of my life, I start writing this summer while
Im prepping Hellboy, and it will be probably a screenplay by the time
Hellboy is in theaters. From that moment on, expect a year or two
(laughs) to go back and forth on budget and visibilities, its a very
very complex movie. And the idea we have is to, for the first time in
the history of movies, is do a high-budget adaptation of Lovecraft. On
that movie, my plan is to involve Corbin, Mignola, Wayne Barlowe, and
Mobius as conceptual designers for the movie, and it will be completely
faithful to Lovecraft. Then, theres an adaptation of a comic book called
Coffin, its actually very goodits right now on the screenplay stage,
were starting the screenplay. Its being written by Tim McCanlies, the
guy who wrote Iron Giant, and he has a very good grasp on it. And soon
enough, well have a screenplay and its off to the races. Then
we have an adaptation of Katsushiro Otomo's Domu, which is still in negotiations
after 4 years, that goes to prove that if theres anything weirder than
American lawyers its Japanese lawyers (laughs).
CD: What about Blade 3?
GdT: Sadly we were discussing this just yesterdaythey wanna go
with Blade 3 right when Im gonna go with Hellboy, and I very much wanted
to return for a third one, but it doesnt look like the calendars are
gonna match.
CD: That pretty much wraps it up for me. Thanks again so much
for everything!
GdT: Alright man - Stay in touch!
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