I love the taste of concrete in the evening.
I would tell you all about getting my face mushed up against a wall for not fully concealing my legally carried firearm in public, but right now, I’m just too sad. I mostly got over the angry, now I’m just sad for the future of the nation as a whole, which is worse. Stream of Conciousness to follow.
Honest, if a man carrying a holstered firearm is such a threat to the safety of the people of Knoxville that I will get body-slammed for it, causing me to lose my cart of groceries and scaring the crap out of my girlfriend, just take the carry permits away. Please, don’t get people’s hopes up that if they just jump through enough bureaucratic hoops, they will be able to exercise a recognized and protected right. Not with Peace Officers - no, Law Enforcement Officers on the job.
If the responding officer can’t be bothered to know the law that an open carried or briefly visible firearm is legal with a TN Handgun Carry Permit, and doesn’t care when he finds out that it is, who would risk being slammed to the brick if anyone in a store saw their carry firearm? Why the facade? If they can’t be kept and/or borne in public, what’s the point of making one poor officer handle that sort of danger? Call out the swat team, evacuate the area, go in hard and fast, and take the threat out. I really liked the part where told me that, if I tried to tell him what the law was, he’d find him some probable cause, and a reason for me to sleep in jail.
It’s a hopeless, losing struggle. TV reaches millions more than we do, and not one person in a hundred wants anything more than circuses and bread, the next beer and football game. The American dream used to mean individual success, now it’s just comfort we all want. Why mess with the status quo? Why think, why struggle, why make a decision? Surrender, take the drug, slip away, work, eat, sleep, do it again, and never question the man.
—-
Previously unannounced writing hiatus due to my life getting twice as busy as before, too much going on at work.
More updates on other things as updates are update-worthy.
ColtCCO
Edited to Clarify:
I would like to clarify, since I got the question via email, that the officer was not responding to a hysterical “Man with a gun” call (thankfully, or I might have a hole in me right now). He saw me, dressed a a human being in Jeans and a t-shirt, pushing a cart of innocuous groceries next to my girlfriend, when he saw the butt of my holstered pistol, or some portion of it, sticking out from under my shirt. He stopped me just outside the door, asked for ID, and when I told him it was in my pocket(front pocket) ‘wristed’ me, and pushed me into the wall just outside the door.
Then he took my wallet, keys, other keys, pocket knife, other pocket knife. I informed him that I had my permit in order, he responded, very loudly, “It’s a concealed permit! Don’t you know what concealed means?”
I’m actually really surprised I stayed so calm, but he wasn’t having any of my “Actually, it’s a handgun carry permit, the law does not specify concealed carry” or my “Actually, yes, I do know what the law is, and yes, it is different for you and I under TN law.” He shouted that “I gotta carry concealed off duty, and so do you! Don’t try and tell me.” He got mad because I had two pocketknives, as well. He wasn’t interested in the fact that I knew the law on carry, or that my weapon was safely and legally carried and told me that he’d ‘get me’ for inciting unrest or making a disturbance. In the end, of course, they didn’t, and I went home.
I’m guessing I’ll call internal affairs a bit later.
ColtCCO
Hire. A. Nasty. Shyster.
I’m not all about picking on the police department, but cops like that and the departments that allow them to continue working only respond to one thing - threatening their jobs in a meaningful way. They don’t WANT to treat you fairly. You have to MAKE them. And once the city shells out a few thou on a settlement, they’ll roll the shit downhill to the officer, i’m betting.
Comment made by Anonymous on June 20, 2007 @ 9:32 pm
I have to agree: there should be a VERY public appology for this. Lacking that, you should have the city funding the purchase of a few new Harleys…
Of course, I’ve also been known to offer a mistaken (and attitudy) officer my wrists, with the statement of “then place me under arrest”. Oddly, none have taken me up on that offer…
Comment made by Strings on June 21, 2007 @ 1:38 am
Damn, that’s absolutely infuriating. I’m not a big fan of lawsuits, but I agree with Anonymous here.
Comment made by TD on June 21, 2007 @ 3:21 am
I’m also not a fan of settling every little dispute with litigation, but in this case the officer and his supervisors need to be put in their place but good.
That kind of behavior can not be allowed to go unchecked.
Joe
Comment made by Raytracer on June 21, 2007 @ 6:22 am
Sorry, I was anonymous, but didn’t notice I had logged in that way. Just owning up to my statements.
You may now return to your previously scheduled outrage against Jackbooted Thuggery.
Comment made by Ambulance Driver on June 21, 2007 @ 7:38 am
I would like to clarify, since I got the question via email, that the officer was not responding to a hysterical “Man with a gun” call (thankfully, or I might have a hole in me right now). He saw me, dressed a a human being in Jeans and a t-shirt, pushing a cart of innocuous groceries next to my girlfriend, when he saw the butt of my holstered pistol, or some portion of it, sticking out from under my shirt. He stopped me just outside the door, asked for ID, and when I told him it was in my pocket(front pocket) ‘wristed’ me, and pushed me into the wall just outside the door.
Then he took my wallet, keys, other keys, pocket knife, other pocket knife. I informed him that I had my permit in order, he responded, very loudly, “It’s a concealed permit! Don’t you know what concealed means?”
I’m actually really surprised I stayed so calm, but he wasn’t having any of my “Actually, it’s a handgun carry permit, the law does not specify concealed carry” or my “Actually, yes, I do know what the law is, and yes, it is different for you and I under TN law.” He shouted that “I gotta carry concealed off duty, and so do you! Don’t try and tell me.” He got mad because I had two pocketknives, as well. He wasn’t interested in the fact that I knew the law on carry, or that my weapon was safely and legally carried and told me that he’d ‘get me’ for inciting unrest or making a disturbance. In the end, of course, they didn’t, and I went home.
I’m guessing I’ll call internal affairs a bit later.
ColtCCO
Comment made by ColtCCO on June 21, 2007 @ 8:01 am
Sue him personally as well as the department. Get a bloodthirsty lawyer and make the bastard admit in open court that he does not know the law. He didn’t do it to protect the public and preserve the peace. He did it just to exercise his power.
Comment made by Rob on June 21, 2007 @ 9:11 am
1) You need to contact that department and file a complaint.
2) You get yourself a lawyer with a great big dorsal fin, and you have your paid cacharodon legalii contact that department in five wroking days and ask for an update on the progress of the investigation into the complaint you filed.
3) Ask your lawyers advice and follow through from there.
Consider contacting the Media about your mistreatment — both print and broadcast.
Comment made by LawDog on June 21, 2007 @ 9:16 am
Wrong personality for the job, and his department should know that.
Of course, that isn’t what departments want these days. What they are more concerned with are the, “Yes, sir!” type respondents, as what they are after is someone who will just follow orders.
The job is hard and it requires a patient mind and a steady hand, and one who is not too quick to react, at all, when it comes to responding to unknown situations.
Too often, the typical “No think, just follow protocal,” mindset is what is being actively sought after when it comes to recruits. Sad but true.
I’m wondering if this cop who accosted you could have maybe just stopped you asked a few questions, first? Again, this is probably a procedural thing, and one that cheifs need to put a stop to, period, for obvious reasons.
Well, I certainly hope that your piece was “confiscated” or if it was, that you get it back, and quickly.
Most importantly, I can commiserate with your feelings regarding the general apathy of the proles, but man, you can’t let the bastards grind you down. Keep doing what’s right, even when everyone esle is doing it wrong. Keep to the high road, and head up, sir!
Comment made by theirritablearchitect on June 21, 2007 @ 10:01 am
Sue him. Sue the department.
Battery. False imprisonment. Assault (civil assault, he put you in fear of grave bodily harm).
Demand criminal charges.
Comment made by Countertop on June 21, 2007 @ 10:26 am
I agree that you should file a complaint/suit. It may be that the officer is a jerk and his bosses know it and are looking for a reason to step on him. Be the reason. He was wrong. If he cannot be bothered to know the law, then he shouldn’t be out in public to uphold it.
Stand up to them. To few do already. If we all quit standing up, where will we be? (on our knees)
Mr Fixit
Comment made by Mr Fixit on June 21, 2007 @ 11:07 am
Go to IAD or whatever they call it in their department and file the complaint. Not “I wanted you to know about this” but file the complaint officially and follow through.
If that doesn’t get satisfaction, then consider the lawyer.
Comment made by Firehand on June 21, 2007 @ 11:29 am
DO NOT LET THIS ONE SLIDE!!!!!
Check opencarry.org, packing.org and the vcdl.org websites about incidences of LEO’s unfamiliar with open carry. Send e-mails of what happened to these folks and ask for advice and help.
Look at incidences in Virginia :Fairfax county, Manassas city, etc.
File an official report with the Police department internal affairs. You may have to go to the police station to file officially. Do not let anyone stop you from filing a formal complaint. Get some friendly cops you know help you word your complaint. Any official action will only address exactly what it is you report was a violation. See the VCDL site for an example.
At a rock bottom MINIMUM you should get a personal apology from the LEO who rousted you, and from the Chief of Police, in writing. Not to mention a guarentee that at the next several roll calls that the riot act is read to all cops in the jurisdiction, THAT THIS NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.
Talk to the folks at opencarry.org, see if they can recommend a good GUN FRIENDLY lawyer.
Lastly, some of the folks I know don’t agree with me when I say it is not always necessary that the LEO in question has to loose his job. Cops have a difficult job, and sometimes make mistakes. After an appropriate trip to the wood shed, these folks can go on to magnificent careers in law enforcement, and be the kind of cop who looks out for a citizen’s rights.
Comment made by James Griffin on June 21, 2007 @ 11:56 am
I’m in agreement with Firehand. File the official complaint, and if you don’t get results quickly, then consider a lawsuit. I’m not a fan of the current “sue everybody” culture, but I agree with AD - that fellow will likely ignore anything that doesn’t pose a threat to his continued employment. He’s definitely in need of some statutory education and an attitude adjustment, and if a complaint won’t accomplish that, a lawsuit and some bad press likely will.
Comment made by Brandon on June 21, 2007 @ 11:56 am
The local paper has noticed.
Comment made by Tam on June 21, 2007 @ 12:14 pm
Good luck.
I’d love to tell you to sue, but I’m afraid it might be bad money tossed after bad - but if you can find some legal sort of toothy cartilage-only fish who can help - bloody well “get some”.
I’ve been “noticed” by one police officer - in a mall Jewelry store that had been held up less than a week prior - I saw he was looking at the belt, noticed the G30, looked at me, I looked at him, we nodded, and went about our business.
But sadly, I’m afraid that this is the “new breed” of “professional law enforcement” (Using Scalia’s terminology). I’d like to hope that the people who I believe don’t fit this mold (Lawdog, Kit, etc.)would be able to make a difference……. But it’s not bearing evidence.
File the report, you surely need to do that, and hope that his superiors are more professional than he.
Comment made by Unix-Jedi on June 21, 2007 @ 12:37 pm
Oh, for the love of-
Are you two alright?
That’s a bit fucked up.
Comment made by Seamus on June 21, 2007 @ 5:20 pm
If I remember correctly, federal statutes give the F.B.I. the jurisdiction and authority to investigate civil rights violations if local authorities fail to do so according to the full letter and spirit of the law.
Document everything. If you’re not fully satisfied they’re taking you seriously, dress up in your Sunday best and report (sans firearm) to your nearest F.B.I. field office.
Comment made by workinwifdakids on June 21, 2007 @ 5:43 pm
A letter I mailed:
June 21, 2007
Thomas Strickland, Jr.
Director, Community Relations
Special Assistant to the Mayor
Room 645D, City County Building
Knoxville, Tennessee 37901
Sir:
I am a frequent visitor to your community, and one who speaks well of Knoxville to friends, colleagues, and family members in several countries. That may change.
After reading the attached story about abuse of authority by police officers in your city, where blogger ColtCCO was unlawfully assaulted, I have to wonder if I should be patronizing your shops and restaurants; if I should take my money elsewhere. Before making that change, I wanted to ask you a question or two.
On my next trip to Knoxville, will I be subject to assault simply because I too carry a weapon?
I have a Carry Permit issued by the state of Tennessee, and others. It has been my practice for the past 30+ years to always go armed, with intent to deter crime and defend life, because I am accustomed to the responsibility inherent in protecting oneself, and because the Law of the Land specifically recognizes the pre-existing right of all free citizens to do so, and because no less than the Supreme Court of the United States has, repeatedly, stated unequivocally that no individual citizen is entitled to nor guaranteed police protection. It behooves one, therefore, to “be prepared”.
It has been my experience in other countries that those most inimical to the liberty and safety of the people are, more often than not, the government police forces. I never thought I’d think the same of any part of the United States.
I disagree with the proposition that I need a permit. I disagree with the viewpoint that carrying a firearm is a crime. All legal jargon aside, the “inalienable” portion of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights clearly spells out that the right to own, carry, and use firearms is not subject to political or judicial review. However, I am a law-abiding citizen, thus I put up with infringement while working to change for the better. Let us hope that the rule of law is upheld, otherwise no one of us will retain respect for law.
Should we treat practitioners of the First Amendment the same way we treat guardians of the Second? Recall if you will that the Constitution does not grant rights via those amendments; rather, it acknowledges pre-existing rights, and it lays out a specific method of Amending the Constitution, which does not provide for abrogating any of those rights. Nor does it grant any power to Congress or anyone else to pass a law violating or changing the Constitution. “It is elementary law that every statute is to be read in the light of the constitution. However broad and general its language, it cannot be interpreted as extending beyond those matters which it was within the constitutional power of the legislature to reach.” [McCullough v. Virginia, 172 U.S. 102 (1898)] What this means is that any attempt to deprive a citizen of rights is itself a crime. Therefore, anyone who supports such an effort is, in the eyes of the law, an accessory to the crime. At least, that’s how Webster and I read the pertinent docs.
Let me offer some items for your perusal:
“I had a girlfriend once who was amazed that it was legal to carry concealed in a bank when she knew I carried into my bank. She felt it should be illegal. I asked her why, and she replied that being able to bring a gun in a bank would facilitate robberies. When I asked her if she thought a murderous bank robber would be deterred by such a law, she saw the folly of the position.” ( from news report about a bank robbery in Bessemer, Alabama 2007-05-14 where a licensed holder detained the robber until police arrived)
“A state may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the federal constitution. The power to impose a license tax on the exercise of these freedoms is indeed as potent as the power of censorship which this Court has repeatedly struck down. A person cannot be compelled ‘to purchase, through a license fee or a license tax, the privilege freely granted by the Constitution.’ ” ~~ Murdock v. Pennsylvania 319 US 105 (1942)
“The claim and exercise of a Constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime.”
Miller v. U.S., F.2d 486, 489.
the Sixteenth American Jurisprudence, Second Edition, Section 177:
“The general rule is that an unconstitutional statute, though having formed in nature of law, is in reality no law, but is wholly void and ineffective for any purpose, since unconstitutionality dates from the time of its enactment and not merely from the date of decision so branding it. An unconstitutional law in legal contemplation is as inoperative as if it had never been passed. Such a statute leaves the question that it purports to settle just as it would be had the statute not been enacted.” “Since an unconstitutional law is void, the general principles follow that it imposes no duties, confers no rights, creates no office, bestows no power or authority on anyone, affords no protection and justifies no acts performed under it.” “No one is bound to obey an unconstitutional law and no courts are bound to enforce it.”
Back to my concerns – No where in TCA 39-17-1351 is it required that a firearm be carried “concealed”. Therefore, it is my opinion that the officers who assaulted, restrained, and removed ColtCCO from the store did so unlawfully. The charges would be, I believe, aggravated assault ( with a weapon ), unlawful arrest ( as he had been apprehended and was not free to leave ), and kidnapping ( since they forcibly removed him to another location ). What I want to know is this: Should I inadvertently or otherwise expose my lawfully carried firearm to the view of a hoplophobe, and should the aforementioned law enforcement practices continue, how much coverage does the city have for payment of damages? How much bad publicity can Knoxville afford? How many tourist dollars can the city do without?
Mr. Strickland, I would appreciate hearing from you as to what is being done to educate your police force about Tennessee Code. I learned a long time back to minimize risks where possible, and if the lawful exercise of my rights has been converted into a crime, endangering my safety while in Knoxville, then perhaps I’ll take my money elsewhere.
Respectfully,
CarlS
Comment made by CarlS on June 21, 2007 @ 9:42 pm
well this is another nail in the coffin of my plans to move to k-ville , seems like the human s***stains are everywhere anymore…
my friends have been telling me what a bunch of idiots are running the town , this just convinces me to look elsewhere …
i guess the damm’d freaks and headcases are everywhere …
hope you ckean their budget for the next 5 years when your lawyer gets done…
Comment made by redeux on June 21, 2007 @ 10:31 pm
See if you can sue. Make the biggest stink that you can to get attention from the media, but don’t hold your breath on the outcome, that thin blue line will get you all tied up. Sad really, I believe all Law Enforcement is tainted like this.
Comment made by KBR on June 22, 2007 @ 2:57 am
On behalf of law enforcement officers who support human rights, I’d like to apologize for his behavior. He did not represent us.
He did not represent even a majority of us.
He represented a minority, that we’d like to see exit the profession.
Comment made by Matt G on June 22, 2007 @ 11:50 am
Some of the readers of this may find it interesting to know that there are still quite a few patriotic peace officers who are as repulsed as the average citizen about strongarm LEO attitudes. Take a look at the following site which is operated by Officer Jack McLamb, “the most highly decorated police officer in the history of Phoenix, Arizona - the eighth largest city in the United States, with a Police Department of over 2000 sworn officers.” Their motto is: “If police officers and soldiers will not enforce tyranny, it will never be enforced!”
http://www.patriotamerica.com/JackMcLamb/index.htm
Comment made by JS on June 22, 2007 @ 12:08 pm
Sir, are you a member of TFA? http://www.tennesseefirearms.com/
Comment made by Malum Prohibitum on June 22, 2007 @ 2:14 pm
Hey… if it happened right outside the door of the store… then it most likely is on tape. All major stores now video tape at least the doors. Get a lawyer………. and get that tape!!!
Comment made by Niner on June 22, 2007 @ 6:05 pm
I would very much like to believe that. However with the lack of “good officers” seeking out and putting a stop to the “bad ones”, things will only get worse.
Comment made by KBR on June 23, 2007 @ 2:27 am
#7 - He did it just to exercise his power.
That wasn’t ‘exercising power’. It was exhibiting cowardice. He probly decided to become a cop to prove something to his ol’ man, or high school friends.
Comment made by libertexian on June 23, 2007 @ 6:44 am
I hope something positive comes from this. At least a dressing down for the officer in question.
By the way, this has been linked on Instapundit. Prepare for lotsa hits.
Comment made by Mumblix Grumph on June 23, 2007 @ 6:44 am
I hope you follow through with this. I am a Knoxville CCW holder (for years with no problems), and I hope a visible example is made of this officer so that the rest of us don’t have a similar experience.
Comment made by Andy on June 23, 2007 @ 6:45 am
That cop — and his supervisors — need to be broke, publicly disgraced, and unemployed, if not jailed. Get a lawyer and burn him.
Comment made by jac on June 23, 2007 @ 6:52 am
Assault, battery, under color of authority. As long as thugs with badges are protected under sovereign immunity they will continue to do this.
Get a lawyer, sue the department, the cop (individually) the Chief of Police, the morons supervisor (individually, he let a dangerous criminal out on duty with a badge and gun), the morons training officers (they passed the thug), the instructors at the ‘police academy’ that were supposed to train him in the law and dealing with his employers, the citizenry, the mayor, the police commission, etc.
And if you can, don’t settle without an agreement that the police department/city will NOT protect thugs like that ever again under sovereign immunity. Let the people who want to be police officers understand that a badge isn’t a hunting license with no bag limit for citizens. I’d also try and have his certification as a police officer (POST, whatever) revoked, so he can’t get a job as a ‘law enforcement official’ in another jurisdiction.
Oh, and a public apology to you and your girlfriend. The Harleys are a nice touch, too.
Comment made by Flighterdoc on June 23, 2007 @ 7:05 am
Instalanche!
Comment made by Tam on June 23, 2007 @ 7:07 am
contrary to the top of the page this post was more :smith: than :awesome:
Comment made by brian on June 23, 2007 @ 7:27 am
I would like to comment on this, but I could not read it. The white on black print on this site is one of the most unreadable that I have ever seen. Please go with something more legible
Comment made by tom fife on June 23, 2007 @ 7:43 am
Par for the course as we move from a “high trust” to “low trust” society.
Comment made by CK on June 23, 2007 @ 7:44 am
Wow. Where in Knoxville did this happen and what brought the officer’s attention to you? Was he just in the area, or responding to a call from a concerned customer?
There are many fine law enforcement folk in Knoxville, so you people who aren’t from around here need to be careful about making a quick judgment. But somebody needs to give the officer that made this mistake another round of training. And then make him ride a bicycle for the rest of the summer.
Comment made by Rapid Roy on June 23, 2007 @ 7:46 am
I have to also suggest you get a lawyer. Police have been trained (to within an inch of their lives) on Civil Rights abuses when the target of their ire is a protected minority. The only reason that happened is because municipalities got tired of getting their pants sued off every time some huckster redneck cop on a power trip decided his badge gave him the right to act loutish (and practice law apparently).
Sue their ass off. This sh*t really pisses me off.
Comment made by Darcyman on June 23, 2007 @ 7:51 am
You ought to file a complaint, if not for your own benefit, then for that of future citizens. We just had an incident up here in L’ville where a recently retired cop just had a major “incident” (firing eight times at a fellow road rager in a store parking lot over a stop sign right of way). Turns out the guy had multiple prior incidents while on the job that were “swept” by his supervisors. My family is replete with military and peace officers. None of them want sociopaths like these on the job. Just not good for bidness.
Comment made by Jake on June 23, 2007 @ 8:20 am
My Friends, having been a LEO, I can tel you with absolute certainty, knowing the law is not a requirement. During a contact call, an Officer is required to make a judgment call as to whether the actions or behaviors of the alleged perpetrator may have broken a law. It is then up to the District Attorney to decide whether a crime has been committed.
There are over 4 million laws on the books as of today, do you think that LEO’s know 1% of them?
The LEO in question saw a gun, responded inappropriately, non-hilarity ensued. Happens 100’s of times every day.
Comment made by Bill Marcy on June 23, 2007 @ 8:25 am
hello..
just thought i wouldinform you that ypur type is too small for me to resd.
other people may have the same problem.
it makes your site un readable to many of us.
regards
r w
Comment made by r wagner on June 23, 2007 @ 8:32 am
I’ve had my gun taken off of me a few times… but never had a police officer treat me like you were treated.
What a jerk.
Contact his department, and file a formal complaint. Follow it up with phone calls, or a certified letter from a friendly attorney.
If the guy is man enough to step up and personally apologize to you (he may simply have been having a bad day), then consider letting the matter drop, as everyone in his command chain will have been educated about it by that point. If he’s a repeat offender, they may need to let him go, and your complaint will add to the paper trail required to make that happen.
Good luck.
Comment made by TheNewGuy on June 23, 2007 @ 8:43 am
Officers like this one besmirch the name of the 40 percent who are good. You seem to have the same badged yahoos in Tennessee that we have in Nevada.
Comment made by mojavewolf on June 23, 2007 @ 8:47 am
Agree that you need to check with the supermarket to see if their surveillance system caught the interaction. I’m also wondering if any passers-by might have taken pictures with their cell phones.
If you’re gonna sue, you need something more on your side than “he said / he said”, and I’m not sure that the girlfriend’s testimony would cut it.
Of course, if the cop has a long history of these sorts of complaints in his file that would also say something.
Comment made by NahnCee on June 23, 2007 @ 8:50 am
Please raise Cain about this. Like the Duke Lacrosse players now going after Nifong, this isn’t just about you and the wrong you suffered; this is about all of us and about holding public officials accountable.
Comment made by TRA on June 23, 2007 @ 8:56 am
I live in Indiana which has had very liberal carry laws for years. I was in a resteraunt some years ago and my jacket slipped partially exposing my holstered handgun. A police officer came to my table, asked if he could join me and after being seated politely asked if I had a carry permit and if so could he see it. I showed the permit we chatted breifly and he left. A much more professional reaction than the one you encountered.
Comment made by Joe on June 23, 2007 @ 8:58 am
In addition to the above — get a restraining order against the assulting officer and don’t go into any dark alleys
Comment made by M-Zelie on June 23, 2007 @ 8:58 am
You need to make an example out of this type of thuggery. It was uncalled for. File a complaint immediately and if that doesn’t work, think “civil rights action.” A permit check is one thing, but this is over the top. The probable cause comment is probably worse than the rough handling. I would have ended up in jail for rightfully calling him a dumbass mother fucker.
Comment made by Mike on June 23, 2007 @ 10:33 am
This is the same town where the Channon Christian & Christopher Newsome were carjacked, raped, mutiliated and murdered back in January by a 4 “African Americans”.
Comment made by Manco on June 23, 2007 @ 10:42 am
Concealed Carry Cops Cop Rage…
Lovely. But now he is discouraged. But that is probably because he thought of cops as familiar with the law. They’re not, but they do know police procedure. I’d certainly contact the IA department and make sure that as a settlement for my lawsuit the…
Trackback made by Find The Boots on June 23, 2007 @ 11:42 am
It would be nice if indeed this copy was in the minority, but sadly most of the major police organizations are pro gun control. The Brady’s claim them as:
* Hispanic American Police Command Officers Association
* International Association of Chiefs of Police
* Major Cities Chiefs Association
* National Association of Police Organizations
* National Black Police Association
* National Fraternal Order of Police
* National Sheriff’s Association
* Police Executive Research Forum.
I used to give to the FOP — I recently found out their status on gun control. Now when they call for donations I tell them I’ll be glad to give them money when they start to respect my second amendment rights and hang up.
Comment made by Boondoggie on June 23, 2007 @ 11:53 am
As an attorney, I usually discourage litigation.
Not in this case.
Sue the pants off the bastard. Take his money. Take the city’s money. Make sure they know why.
Comment made by David Rogers on June 23, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
I have spent some time working at a firing range as well as giving private shooting lessons to police officers. Yes, there are some knuckleheads out there. Name one profession that doesn’t have them.
One time I was checking in a couple of officers, one in uniform, and the other clerk was showing handguns to a lady. She mentioned that she was nervous because of the serial rapist in the city and how long it would take to get her concealed carry permit. The plainclothes cop told her to go ahead and carry the pistol. If she was forced to use it to protect herself the consequences would be minimal or even overlooked.
Most of these guys are normal joes and ex-military.
THIS cop, however, should be relieved of his job if he threatened you for knowing your rights. That shows his true side as a bully and ethical nutjob.
Comment made by jr72023 on June 23, 2007 @ 12:08 pm
You can’t allow this to go unanswered. What this police officer did was criminal. He doesn’t know the law; he isn’t trained properly.
At the very least you should get a written apology from the Police Chief and this officer and a promise from the department to train their officers in the law.
Comment made by John G on June 23, 2007 @ 12:21 pm
As at least one other has said, go to OpenCarry.org and talk about this.
They will help you figure out how to properly file a complaint. They are very nice people but they do stand up for their rights AND they do get apologies and other desirable results.
OpenCarry.org
I live in Texas where concealed carry is required but those folks at OpenCarry.Org are doing the RIGHT THING.
Comment made by Herb Martin on June 23, 2007 @ 12:30 pm
Was this incident captured on any video camera?
Perhaps you should find out before any tapes are erased.
Were you able to obtain the names of any witnesses? Did you photograph any bruises? Torn clothing? Did you get examined by a doctor?
These actions would really help your lawyer.
Comment made by V65Magnafan on June 23, 2007 @ 12:33 pm
Sue the jerk… not the police… the guy that did it… in addition to a civil suit, for damages, ask for criminal charges too… he attacked you. He need a few days in jail and some anger management courses… just like anyone else attacking people on the street.
Comment made by thomas on June 23, 2007 @ 12:44 pm
Thomas, not a chance of that. Officer safety trumps all in terry stops. Controlling the interviewee is perfectly allowable, and when a weapon is found in their possession you can step up the force continum.
I am not making excuses, but letting you know what is going through 99.99% of the LEO’s heads out there. They stop 999 people, all carrying weapons, all of them will have want’s or warrants on them, what would you, as a reasonable person think on the 1000′th time?
Comment made by Bill Marcy on June 23, 2007 @ 1:56 pm
Please don’t let this go! You definitely need to call and report this prick and file a formal complaint. Don’t let him intimidate you, especially if the law is on your side. The vast majority of our police officers are fine and upstanding people. This one just sounds like a power hungry jackass who needs to be taken down a few notches by his superiors before someone gets hurt, and this might be just the situation to use to force their hand and make it happen.
Good luck, and God speed!
Comment made by Del Simmons on June 23, 2007 @ 2:11 pm
The same thing happened to me after a 1/4 inch piece of my .38 Special was exposed out of an unknown hole in my pocket; however, I spent the night in jail. I was charged with carrying a concealed weapon with a permit (believe it or not). Charges were obviously dropped and I am sueing the police department of New Smyrna Beach, Florida. Sad for me, they applied handcuffs so tightly that they severed nerves in my wrists and I suffered permanend physical damage.
Comment made by Frank Darden on June 23, 2007 @ 2:28 pm
Sir, no matter waht you do… please keep us up to date on this issue.
Comment made by DaveP. on June 23, 2007 @ 4:49 pm
Bill Marcy said:”Thomas, not a chance of that. Officer safety trumps all in terry stops. Controlling the interviewee is perfectly allowable, and when a weapon is found in their possession you can step up the force continum.
I am not making excuses, but letting you know what is going through 99.99% of the LEO’s heads out there. They stop 999 people, all carrying weapons, all of them will have want’s or warrants on them, what would you, as a reasonable person think on the 1000′th time?”
So if I stop someone while on my property, I can do a stop just like this?
If I can’t, neither should cops.
Comment made by libertarian on June 23, 2007 @ 5:47 pm
Maybe instead of moaning over the possibly imminent downfall of Western Civilization, you could have posted with some perspective, recognizing that it’s equally possibly that the officer in question was just a knucklehead that may not be indicative of the entire department, nor by extension, EveryCopInAmerica.
Did he overreact? Yep. Did he then act like an ass about it? Yep. Does that mean they are all automatically like that? Nope.
Comment made by Teri on June 23, 2007 @ 6:28 pm
You know we could cut the gun craziness in this country by at least half if we repealed drug prohibition.
Think back - when were machine guns outlawed?
And guess what - drugs don’t cause addiction. Your government has been lying to you. Noooooooo.
Addiction Is A Genetic Disease
With quotes from government research yet.
It appears that certain parts of the government and the population haven’t gotten the word.
Comment made by M. Simon on June 23, 2007 @ 6:42 pm
Cops like that just make you remember why we need tight civilian control of them. And why cops can’t be trusted with decisions best left to non-cops. (and i guess why despite my political leaning toward favoring cops in most instances, I am constantly being repelled by many of them)
Please make the complaint: that way the promotions board can consider it when pondering that moose for any position where he might supervise others. Andy Taylor he’s not.
Comment made by FrankDrebbin on June 23, 2007 @ 7:29 pm
I know it’s been said, but it bears repeating:
Flesh. Eating. Lawyers. They’ll help politely remind the city and the department that such unconstitutional and illegal tomfoolery won’t be tolerated.
It’s sad that nowadays in the “Land of the Free”, those who protect our rights must remain ever-vigilant against a constant assault, while those who work to undermine said rights (I’m looking at [i]you[/i], Brady-ites) pour money into the political arena and bide their time.
Comment made by AM Edition on June 23, 2007 @ 9:30 pm
I hate hearing stories like this. These asshats give the other 99% of cops a bad name. Nonetheless, if someone tasked with enforcing the law is ignorant of the law, I would ask (just short of implying it’s your responsibility
that you do everything within your power to remove said idiot from the law enforcement profession. For everyone else’s sake.
P.S. Just reiterating everyone else at this point: L.I.T.I.G.A.T.I.O.N.
Comment made by dave on June 24, 2007 @ 4:41 am
One of the worst problems with some of the Southern States Departments is that they are non union, poorly paid, and have very low standards as compared to states in the west and up north. I’m not making excuses for the guy, but his age may have been a factor if he was young. If he was tactically positioned correctly, he would not have needed to escalate things they way he did. Newbies are that way sometimes. I’m not familiar with the CCW laws in Kentucky, but in Michigan they are fairly clear. I’ve stopped numerous people who stated that they were armed and had a permit, and I never screwed my gun into their ear until I saw said permit. Then again, I’ve been doing this for 15 years. I hope everything works out for you with the IA unit at his department. Suing him, and them may not be the best thing to do, but thats your choice. Making a complaint and following up on it could be. I’m willing to bet that age, and a lack of training probably had a lot to do with his attitude. Hopefully he has a Sgt/Lt who can straighten him out. BTW I’m sitting in a patrol car as we speak typing this between calls heh heh. Love the blog, keep up the good work.
Comment made by Brad Morgan on June 24, 2007 @ 7:26 am
I volunteer $1,500 toward your legal costs ($500 on demand then two installments of $500 per month). Wish I could pay the whole thing. Saw your post via Instapundit link; never visited your website before. What you described was a criminal act, in my layman’s view, with attributes of rape (violent assertion of power over another with threat of greater harm for resistance). Consider emotional counseling. From the tone of your post it is clear the assault did not end in the parking lot. Start spending the money; it’s yours. Send wire instructions or a mailing address. The first question in depositions will be, “Why did you wait so long to make a response?”
Comment made by John Piper on June 24, 2007 @ 9:11 am
Mr. Ferguson, please. Non-union and poorly paid and it’s the South. Are you by chance a shop steward for your local?
Let me tell you something about unionized, professional police: I grew up in a city with one of the, allegedly, most professional and, allegedly, incorriptible forces in the nation. The Los Angeles Police Department. Well paid, union up the ying-yang and at that time, the support of everyone on the city council and the two major papers.
What did we get? More brutality than you can shake a stick at, and that included those NOT poor or brown.
It got us cops screaming faux-German “orders” at passing school kids in a neighborhood where a significant number of us had parents with tattoos courtesy of the German government’s little experiment with the New World Order. I assure you this instilled a lot of faith in us kids regarding Officer Friendly. It also lent a lot of credance to what more than one of these survivors told us: when the time comes to round you up it won’t be the army. It will be the police and they will do it gladly. It’s the law, you know.
So, cut the crap about what makes the cops here in the South bad. From my viewpoint, the union is just another layer of the wall of silence; they can fund some darn good defense attornies if the cop in question is turned out by his department.
Comment made by the friendly grizzly on June 24, 2007 @ 7:30 pm
You were denied at least two civil rights, 1st and 2nd amendment, and assaulted by this person. I’ll contribute to a legal fund. Please let us know what you decide to do and the results of it.
GBW
Comment made by GreatBlueWhale on June 25, 2007 @ 6:16 am
Sue. Unfortunately, most corporate entities only feel getting hit in the wallet.
Comment made by JRShirley on June 25, 2007 @ 7:39 am
I haven’t read all the comments, but the NRA and/or GOA might help you out financially and/or professionally.
Man I hate bigots. And elitist gun bigots are the worst.
Comment made by jimmyb on June 25, 2007 @ 8:47 am
saw this linked on sight1911, I will forward to KC3.org here in KY.
The more people that know, the better. Write a letter to editor, go to local radio station. Play down the gun, play up the show of un-called for force. Here is my response to someone who sees my weapon and lets out a gasp or makes a remark about fear of violence from me..”if your dress blows up and I see your panties, should I automatically assume that you are going to screw me?, my gun is personal, private and not intended for you to see”.
Comment made by windage on June 25, 2007 @ 1:28 pm
All departments have a few assholes. The good cops don’t like them, but they can’t do anything about it unless people like you speak up. You don’t have to sue, but at least get a letter in his file saying he caused a disturbance then threatened you with lies. That’s probably more effective anyhow than a big lawsuit and people saying you’re just a greedy asshole.
Comment made by Tom Line on June 25, 2007 @ 1:34 pm
I suspect it’s just an oversight on your part, but you didn’t mention that he disarmed you? I don’t suppose that he forgot about the gun in the excitement of finding two pocketknives, did he?
The cop must have been a throwback to WWII - the Nazi side. “Your papers, please! Now, up against the wall, you low-life, law-abiding citizen!”
Comment made by ProfTom on June 25, 2007 @ 3:16 pm
I smell a lawsuit.
Throw the book at this jagoff. This is definitely conduct unbecoming of a law enforcement officer.
Comment made by Reinhart on June 25, 2007 @ 6:44 pm
As a retired officer a call to internal affairs would be a very good thing. It will accomplish two thing. One and most importantly it will put the department on notice to at least have a law update or refresher during intervice training. When officers do stupid things as this where the dept. can be sued it will wake them up. Two if the officer has a record of doing off the wall or use of poor judgement it will bring down some heat on him. Good luck clyde621
Comment made by ac brannan on June 25, 2007 @ 6:45 pm
Just be glad you don’t live here in New Orleans where filing a complaint against an officer has been long known as a very effective method of suicide.
Comment made by Cybrludite on June 26, 2007 @ 3:55 am
It is easy to hide on a blog and keep everything anonymous. If this really happened then call the agency and report it. I have found that most bloggers make up these stories to trash the police and when called to action, they end up being completely false. Just to further their cop hating agenda. So, put up or shut up.
Comment made by OfficerFriendly on June 26, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
It’s now Tuesday. How ’bout an update? You’ve had two days to do something. What have you done?
Comment made by Fred P on June 26, 2007 @ 7:24 pm
Comment made by OfficerFriendly on June 26, 2007 @ 3:09 pm
Easy now. You know that if you get counsel involved things go into slow motion quiet.
Assuming he’s truthful, unlike you, I’ll wait a bit. I’ve beeen harrassed by deputy dan on occasion for being aware of my rights and carrying a gun just like his.
Intimidation is a hallmark of his kind. You’d agree wouldn’t you OFFICER friendly? nudge nudge hintihint saynomore? wink
Comment made by libertarian on June 27, 2007 @ 8:14 am
I’m not anonymous - anyone who calls my place of business can ask for and speak to me. I’ve droppedthe name of the company, as well as my own (Trevor) several times. The only reason I don’t post my full name here is to avoid insta-harassment via Google search. Far from anonymous, many of my customers follow my blog.
Second, I called the department and reported it to IAD the day after it happened. Including legal counsel in the loop doesn’t make things go faster, but my written complaint followed shortly after. I’ve been working 12 hour days, and it leaves little time for much else except keeping fed.
Third, if I had a ‘cop-hating agenda’, it might have been at least a little apparent before now. I’ve been blogging on and off for months, and other than this incident, I don’t think I’ve had a negative word to say about the police as an institution or as a whole, only the one officer in particular. I count several law enforcement officers as personal friends, in 4 different local departments, and many more as satisfied customers in this state and others.
Please don’t paint me with the same broad brush that you claim I’m using for my cop hating agenda, because the evidence that I feel that way just isn’t there. Not once, even at my most despondent, did I rail against some ‘facist police state’ or any other nonsense, when I stated the facts of the incident. Nor did I blame all police, or make anything up. Other officers posting here have advised me well, and backed me. Will you join them in supporting my rights, or simply claim, out of nowhere, that I’m probably a cop-hating liar because “most other” bloggers are?
That’s a broad brush, Officer R.
ColtCCO
Comment made by ColtCCO on June 27, 2007 @ 9:40 pm
I am not familiar with police procedures, so feel free to correct me if I feel the officers initial reaction to secure a possible suspect may have been within reason ( granted he went to the extreme ). My issue is with his threat of “trumped up” charges. I have had the unfortunate experience of having freinds or neighbors asking me for references when they applied to law enforcement agencies (thankfully one got a DUI that took him out of the running, and I have never been contacted regarding the others). The officer going to the “other” charges threat indicates that he knew he was in the wrong (or wasn’t sure) and was trying to bully his way through the situation. At the very least he (and his fellow officers) should receive counseling from his supervisors and the department on handling this situation. As with any job EXPERIENCE will shape him, and he will learn. Unfortunately the pool for officers is not that great, hopefully this officer is one who could learn from his mistakes. The complaint should be enough to indicate to his superiors that he needs more training, or if he had others it was time to let him go. We really don’t know if his actions were due to inexperience, youthful exuberance, or just plain being a “prick”. A record of such “oversights” would hopefully lead to his superiors being able to determine which of the conditions he suffers from. I say file the report with the department and see what response you get, and then go from there. Ultimately, the decision is left up to you and what you are comfortable with. For reference, I live just south of Knoxville, and will be applying for my conceal/carry within the next month.
Comment made by Corwin on June 30, 2007 @ 2:50 pm
That completely blows, dude. Some cop. I dearly hope that you can look at worthy officers in the future without that silent disdain for the last one you “encountered.”
BTW, check your link for Coal Creek Armory. My browser didn’t like the “,com” instead of “.com” there.
Good luck in the future!
tweaker
Comment made by Speakertweaker on June 30, 2007 @ 7:15 pm
ZUG, Switzerland — Evening rush hour at the train station: men in suits, a woman carrying a cello, kids lugging snowboards. Markus Marschall, a university engineering student, walked through the bustle wearing an orange T-shirt, leather jacket and aviator sunglasses — and a Sturmgewehr 90 automatic assault rifle slung over his shoulder.
“It’s perfectly normal,” said Marschall, 25
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/29/AR2007042900133.html?hpid=topnews
Comment made by me on July 3, 2007 @ 10:17 am
Absolutely nothing worse than a over zealous ,smart a$$ cop. Hope you sue him out of the STATE ! Nothing better than a good, smart and friendly cop. Yes ,3 member of my family work in LAW ENFORCEMENT. Thank God for the good cops!: My trucks alt. decided to go bad in the middle of Town (Pigeon Forge) one day, the cop came and stood with me till the tow truck came. Of course he ran my tag, knew I was a CCW carier, he was very nice. We talked about guns, target shooting etc. Not a bad experience, and he KNEW I was armed, but on his side as 99% of CCW carriers are. He said ” It’s not the Legal CCW’s that I worry about ,I’ve never had any problem with them. Its the people that carry illegally that really worry me.”
Comment made by Big Dale on July 14, 2007 @ 5:22 pm
[…] recall a bit back that Colt CCO was bodyslammed by a police officer for lawfully carrying a concealed weapon. Well, there’s an update: Their determination was that the officer in question violated the […]
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