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Author Topic:   the Sea People
dhill757
Member

Posts: 526
From: Madison
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 07-04-2004 21:46     Click Here to See the Profile for dhill757     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I thought it might be interesting to start a thread devoted to the Sea People, not just in whatever relationship they might have had to Atlantis, but who they were as a people in themselves. Despite what anyone may have heard, the Sea People still seem to be something of a mystery in the halls of Academia. The title of this thread is "Sea People", but feel free to add any information about the Minoans, the Phoenicians or any of the ancient sea-faring people of the Mediterranean.

I'd like to stress this in no way should be taken as an endorsement as the Sea People, in anyway, as the sole basis for the Atlantis story. In my opinion, they're too recent and on the other side of the Mediterranean. In fact, the more I learn of them, the more, to me anyway, they seem like a separate entity, but they are worth studying.

Here's an interesting article from this website that I thought would be great way to get the ball rolling. The website also has some interesting pictures on it that might be worth a look:
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/seapeople.htm

Who Were the Sea People
by Robert Anderson

The Sea People, who we are told of on reliefs at Medinet Habu and Karnak, as well as from the text of the Great Harris Papyrus (now in the British Museum), are said to be a loose confederation of people originating in the eastern Mediterranean.  From their individual names, we believe that they may specifically have come from the Aegean and Asia Minor. However, regardless of their organization as a "loose confederation", they did manage to invade Egypt's northern coast and apparently mounted campaigns against the Egyptians on more than one occasion. 

The 12th century brought dramatic changes that permanently affected Asia Minor and the civilized world of that time. Between 1200 and 1176 BC, the chaos that occurred in that region was probably a direct outcome of Sea People activity, and may be one reason why we find it difficult to find historical documentation beyond that date in Asia Minor. 

We actually believe that the Sea People became active as early as the reign of Akhenaten. These were probably the Denen, Lukka and Sherden. The Lukka and Sherden are also recorded, along with the Peleset as serving as mercenaries in the army of Ramesses II, especially at the Battle of Qadesh. In fact, Ramesses II had earlier been forced to defend himself against attempts by the Sherden to establish a chain of efforts to the west of Egypt. They had arrived in that area almost a century earlier, and are said to have included the Libu, who would eventually give their name to Libya. An inscription of  Ramesses II relates in the 8th year of his reign (which is dated c. 1176 BC):


"No land could stand before their arms, from Hatti, Qode, Carchemish, Arzawa and Alasiya on, being cut off at one time. A camp was set up in one place in Amurru. They desolated its people, and its land was like that which has never come into being. They were coming toward Egypt, while the flame was prepared before them. Their confederation was the Peleset, Tjeker, Shekelesh, Denyen, and Weshesh, lands united. They laid their hands upon the land as far as the circuit of the earth, their hearts confident and trusting: 'Our plans will succeeded!' 

Medinet Habu Inscription


Various scholars have tried to place these people with recognizable regions. We are told by ancient text that they came from Ahhiyawa. However, we are told that the Sea People included:

* The Peleset, who were non other than the Philistines that gave their name to Palestine. 
* The Lukka who may have come from the Lycian region of Anatolia. 
* The Ekwesh and Denen who seem to be identified with the Homeric Achaean and Danaean Greeks
* The Sherden who may be associated with Sardinia.
* The Teresh (Tursha or Tyrshenoi - possibly the Tyrrhenians), the Greek name for the Etruscans; or from the western Anatolian Taruisa 
* Shekelesh (Shekresh, Sikeloi - Sicilians?) 


It would seem that, rather then bands of plunderers, the Sea People were probably part of a great migration of displaced people. The migration was most likely the result of widespread crop failures and famine. In fact, we learn from an inscription at Karnak that Merenptah had already sent grain to the starving Hittites. However, after causing havoc in Mycenaen Greece and elsewhere, they finally arrived on the Delta coast between Cyrenaica and Mersa Matruh. This area was, during this period, seasonally occupied by foreign seafarers sailing from Cyprus via Crete to the Egyptian Delta, so perhaps the initial settlement was not cause for alarm. Here, however, the Sea People joined with the Libyan tribes creating a strong force of some 16,000 men. 

As they began to enter Egypt, the warriors were usually accompanied by their wives and families, and it appears that they carried their possessions in ox-drawn cards, prepared to settle down though whatever territory they transverse. After organizing themselves with the Libyans, they began to penetrate the western Delta, and were moving southwards towards Memphis and Heliopolis.

This first attack of the Sea people occurred during the 5th regnal year of Merenptah, the 19th Dynasty ruler and son of Ramesses II, and it seems that at first it took that king by surprise. Of course, Merenptah could not allow the Sea People to advance on Egypt's most sacred cities, and it seems that he put an end to this in a six hour battle by killing more than six thousand of them and routing the rest. Those Sea People who were captured appear to have been settled in military colonies located in the Delta, where their descendants would become an increasingly important political factor over time. Moshe Dothan's excavations at the Philistine city of Ashdod between 1962 and 1969, which uncovered a burnt layer dating to the 13th century BC, may correspond to this event, or to the arrival of the Peleset themselves in the area.  Merenptah's victory was recorded on the walls of the temple of Amun at Karnak and on the document we often refer to as the Israel Stele from his funerary temple.

However, the Sea People's alliance appears to have remained strong, for afterwards they destroyed the Hittite empire, ransacking the capital of Hattusas, and were probably responsible for the sacking of the client city of Ugarit on the Syrian coast, as well as cities such as Alalakh in northern Syria. Cyprus had also been overwhelmed and its capital Enkomi ransacked. It was clear that their ultimate goal was Egypt. 

In the 8th regnal year of Ramesses III, they again returned to attack Egypt, by both land and sea.  Ramesses III records that:


"The foreign countries made a plot in their islands. Dislodged and scattered by battle were the lands all at one time, and no land could stand before their arms, beginning with Khatti [1], Kode [2], Carchemish [3], Arzawa [4], and Alasiya [5]... A camp was set up in one place in Amor [6], and they desolated its people and its land as though they had never come into being. They came, the flame prepared before them, onwards to Egypt. Their confederacy consisted of Peleset, Tjekker, Sheklesh, Danu, and Weshesh, united lands, and they laid their hands upon the lands to the entire circuit of the earth, their hearts bent and trustful 'Our plan is accomplished!' But the heart of this god, the lord of the gods, was prepared and ready to ensnare them like birds... I established my boundary in Djahi [7], prepared in front of them, the local princes, garrison-commanders, and Maryannu. I caused to be prepared the rivermouth like a strong wall with warships, galleys, and skiffs. They were completely equipped both fore and aft with brave fighters carrying their weapons and infantry of all the pick of Egypt, being like roaring lions upon the mountains; chariotry with able warriors and all goodly officers whose hands were competent. Their horses quivered in all their limbs, prepared to crush the foreign countries under their hoofs. "


Again, Egypt seems to have been ready for this onslaught, for they have positioned troops at Djahy in southern Palestine and fortified the mouths of the Nile branches in the Delta. The clash, when it came was a complete success for the Egyptians. The Sea Peoples, on land, were defeated and scattered but their navy continued towards the eastern Nile delta. Their aim now, was to defeat the Egyptian navy and force an entry up the river. Although the Egyptians had a reputation as poor seamen they fought with the tenacity of those defending their homes. Ramesses had lined the shores with ranks of archers who kept up continuous volleys of arrows into the enemy ships when they attempted to land. Then the Egyptian navy attacked using grappling hooks to haul in the enemy ships. In the brutal hand to hand fighting which ensued the Sea People are utterly defeated.  Ramesses III recorded his victory in stone on the outer walls of his mortuary temple at Medinet Habu and the author of the Harris papyrus included the accounts of these campaigns as well. He tells us that:


"As for those who reached my boundary, their seed is not. Their hearts and their souls are finished unto all eternity. Those who came forward together upon the sea, the full flame was in front of them at the rivermouths, and a stockade of lances surrounded them on the shore. "

The Sea Battle of Ramesses III's Encounter with the Sea People

While the Sea People forever changed the face of the Mediterranean world, they never succeeded in conquering Egypt, and their presence in Syria-Palestine does not at first seem to have affected Egypt's sway over its northern territories. 

[1] Khatti: The Hittite empire in Anatolia, Hatti 
[2] Kode: Cilicia 
[3] Carchemish: City on the Euphrates in northern Syria 
[4] Arzawa: Country in western Anatolia, allied to Hatti 
[5] Alasiya: Cyprus 
[6] Amor: Amurru in northern Syria 
[7] Djahi: region in Canaan, possibly in the Judean hills

References:
Title Author Date Publisher Reference Number
Atlas of Ancient Egypt Baines, John; Malek, Jaromir 1980 Les Livres De France None Stated
Complete Temples of Ancient Egypt, The Wilkinson, Richard H. 2000 Thames and Hudson, Ltd ISBN 0-500-05100-3
Dictionary of Ancient Egypt, The Shaw, Ian; Nicholson, Paul 1995 Harry N. Abrams, Inc., Publishers ISBN 0-8109-3225-3
History of Ancient Egypt, A Grimal, Nicolas 1988 Blackwell None Stated
Oxford History of Ancient Egypt, The Shaw, Ian 2000 Oxford University Press ISBN 0-19-815034-2

[This message has been edited by dhill757 (edited 07-04-2004).]

[This message has been edited by dhill757 (edited 07-06-2004).]

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dhill757
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Posts: 526
From: Madison
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 07-04-2004 21:59     Click Here to See the Profile for dhill757     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's another interesting article on the origins of the Sea People:
http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/hittites/f/seapeople.htm

Q. Who Were the Sea People?

from KL47

A.
The situation regarding the identification of the Sea Peoples is more complicated than you might realize. The major problem is that we only have sketchy written records of their attacks on the established cultures of Egypt and the Near East, and these give only a vague idea of where they came from. Also, as the name suggests, they were a group of distinct peoples of diverse origins, not a single culture. Archaeologists have put some pieces of the puzzle together, but there are still some big gaps in our knowledge of them which will never be filled.

The Egyptians originally coined the name "Peoples of the Sea" for the foreign contingents that the Libyans brought in to support their attack on Egypt in c. 1220 BC during the reign of Pharaoh Merneptah. In the records of that war, five Sea Peoples are named: the Shardana, Teresh, Lukka, Shekelesh and Ekwesh, and are collectively referred to as "northerners coming from all lands".

The evidence for their exact origins is extremely sparse, but archaeologists specializing in this period have proposed the following:

The Shardana may have originated in northern Syria, but later moved to Cyprus and probably eventually ended up as the Sardinians.

The Teresh and Lukka were probably from western Anatolia, and may correspond to the ancestors of the later Lydians and Lycians, respectively. However, the Teresh may also have been the people later known to the Greeks as the Tyrsenoi, i.e., the Etruscans, and already familiar to the Hittites as the Taruisa, which latter is suspiciously similar to the Greek Troia. I won't speculate on how this fits in with the Aeneas legend.

The Shekelesh may correspond to the Sikels of Sicily. The Ekwesh have been identified with the Ahhiyawa of Hittite records, who were almost certainly Achaean Greeks colonizing the western coast of Anatolia, as well as the Aegean Islands, etc.

In Egyptian records of the second wave of Sea Peoples attacks in c. 1186 BC, during the reign of Pharaoh Rameses III, the Shardana, Teresh, and Shekelesh are still considered to be a menace, but new names also appear: the Denyen, Tjeker, Weshesh and Peleset. An inscription mentions that they "made a conspiracy in their islands", but these may have only been temporary bases, not their actual homelands.

The Denyen probably originally came from northern Syria (perhaps where the Shardana had once lived), and the Tjeker from the Troad (i.e., the area around Troy) (possibly via Cyprus). Alternatively, some have associated the Denyen with the Danaoi of the Iliad, and even the tribe of Dan in Israel.

Little is known about the Weshesh, though even here there is a tenuous link to Troy. As you may know, the Greeks sometimes referred to the city of Troy as Ilios, but this may have evolved from the Hittite name for the region, Wilusa, via the intermediate form Wilios. If the people called Weshesh by the Egyptians were indeed the Wilusans, as has been speculated, then they may have included some genuine Trojans, though this is an extremely tenuous association.

Finally, of course, the Peleset eventually became the Philistines and gave their name to Palestine, but they too probably originated somewhere in Anatolia.

In summary then, five of the nine named "Sea Peoples" - the Teresh, Lukka, Tjeker, Weshesh and Peleset - can plausibly be linked to Anatolia (albeit somewhat inconclusively), with the Tjeker, Teresh and Weshesh being possibly linked to the vicinity of Troy itself, though nothing can be proven and there's still much controversy about the exact locations of ancient states in that region, let alone the ethnic identity of the inhabitants.

Of the other four Sea Peoples, the Ekwesh are probably the Achaean Greeks, and the Denyen may be the Danaoi (though probably aren't), while the Shekelesh are the Sicilians and the Shardana were probably living in Cyprus at the time, but later became the Sardinians.

Thus, both sides in the Trojan War may be represented among the Sea Peoples, but the impossibility of obtaining precise dates for the fall of Troy and the raids of the Sea Peoples makes it difficult to work out exactly how they are connected.

[This message has been edited by dhill757 (edited 07-06-2004).]

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dhill757
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Posts: 526
From: Madison
Registered: Mar 2004

posted 07-04-2004 22:18     Click Here to See the Profile for dhill757     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here's a hypothesis connecting Atlantis with the Sea People:
http://www.tolos.de/sea-people.e.htm

The Migration of the Sea-People and the Indo-Iranean Migration

Caused by the cosmic catastrophe of 1250 B.C. , by the demolition of towns and houses, the destruction of fertile farmland, the worsening of climate and by that caused food shortage and certainly not at last by the psychological shock of the catastrophe it came to an emigration of masses of survived men. Concerned were at first the most directly struck countries Iberia, France, South-West Germany, England and Ireland. Later on, caused by the worsening of climate and with that connected crop failures and famines, parts of the northern living people of North-Germany, Danmark and with lower rate of the Baltic-countries followed them. When the paths were paved, the routes were found and the first reports of the successful conquest of countries reached through the Mediterranean the here living people of the former Atlantian Empire, fell prey to the suction of emigration inhabitants of Tyrrhenia, Sardinia and Corse.

The number of men, who moved in a nearly 100 years lasting gigantic move to the East could be been much more than one million. This supposition is justified by the statement of the Egyptian Pharaoh Ramses III who reckoned in the battle of Djahi (dated for 1180 B.C.) the against him lined up combat units for hundreds of thousands of men and the fact that at least no country and no state could resist to the approaching flood of men.

After the complete destruction of the Atlantian capital Tharsis and the with that connected sudden disappearance of the political, economical, mental and cultural center and the far reaching destruction of the whole country, the surviving people left it and went to East. Their aim was Egypt. The country which they knew by their commercial relations with it, in which happened no earthquakes and sudden floodings and anybody found his meal. Besides this, Egypt was founded like their lost paradise by gods and was regarded to a certain degree as a sister-nation.
In a gigantic migration they roamed through Europe on land, carrying their belongings and gained haul on carts drawn by cows. The way of the main contingent began probably at the old resembling and ritual worship places(D) in the South of Britanny, lead upwards the Loire, through the Elsace into South-West Germany. Than downhill the Danube, rounding the Black Sea, along the Caucasus and the Caspian Sea, through Armenia to Asia Minor.

Here they overrun the only half-hearted resisting empire of the Hittites (D) and turned than, united with them , against Egypt. Egypt (D) itself, which was following its own statements victorious, was forced to take in parts of their army and fall prey ten years later to their seeping in crowds of men and by them caused political unrest.

Some groups of people separated from the main-stream and found their own way. So the Dorers went to Greece. Also in Macedonia rested one part. The same happened in the mountains of North-Iran.(D) Another part moved northern of the iranean mountains to the East, turned than through the todays Afghanistan to the South-East to India. But nearly everywhere on the way settled down some groups which were pleased, at least for some time. So it is explained, that all areas which were concerned by the migration were afterwards more or less settled by Atlantians and carried the stamp of the culture of Atlantis.(D)

The roaming people were supported, as far as possible, by the strong fleet of the Atlantians, which had , thanks of its stationing in the Mediterranean, far reaching escaped from the catastrophe.

In the hieroglyph- and cuneiform texts of Egypt and Mesopotamia appear the "Sea-People", how they are here generally named, under strange names. Some of them , Philists, Dardanes are easy to identify. Others, like the Scherdes and Schekelesch have probably later on settled in Sardinia and Silicia. Again others, like the Keschkesch and Irwes came probably from northern countries.

1190 B.C. Ramses III defended the north-eastern border against an invasion of the Philists, Teukres, Sikules, Danunes and others. So different the combination of names of nations, so unambiguous is, as expression of a big migration wave - the again and again approach of new waves of the Sea-People. They were not the only ones who helped to destroy the proud position of Egypt in the eastern Mediterranean but there, among others, a factor of big importance.

In the year 1180 B.C. a new wave of Sea-People rolled on through land and sea and clashed with the Egyptians in the 8th year of rule of Ranses III. This time they were Philists, Teukres, Siciles, Dananes and Weschesch. they overran Anatolia, Kilikia, Cyprus and North Syria, liquidated the empire of the Hittites (D) and put up their camp somewhere in the plain of North-Syria to collect forces for the invasion of Egypt.

The seafarers had boats with steep to the top turned bow and sharp spur for ramming. The roaming on land men had ox-carts loaded with their belongings and were accompanied by their wives and children. Ramses met the offensive on land at Djahi and the offensive on sea in the river mouths of the delta.

He was successful in some respect, because the Sea-People reached not the immediate penetration into Egypt in possession of power. Probably he persuaded the roaming people after the battle, to turn back. That Egypt in its heartland rested undamaged is certainly due to the diplomatic negotiations of the Pharaoh with the people , who were not unfriendly minded to Egypt, and the in negotiations proved willingness to compromise. At last he offered to the intruders the egyptian part of Syria and the whole of Palestine included the towns of Tyrus and Sidon. He received into Egypt a part of them, probably these, who wanted absolutely to get into Egypt, and let them settle in the delta as peace-keeping force with government support.

So you can read in the egyptian report about the battle among other: " A big number of captives was brought to Egypt"..."I settled them at fortified places, enslaved in my name"..."Their combat units were counted as hundreds of thousands"...."I assigned to them shares of clothes and supplies of the treasure and granary."

You can assume, that Ramses only accepted that part of men, longing for entrance, and put it into his troops, which was well equipped and trained. It could have been a part of the atlantian main troop. These troop had the asset, that it was grown up and educated in a culture which was similar to the egyptian. For that, there were to expect no problems of integration .

Some groups of the Sea-People were bounded for the siege of achaeen towns and the following battles for power in the Mykenean and achaeen area. Others returned with help of the fleet to their old areas of settling in the West. Again others settled in the North of Iran, where they found a country which was similar to their native land in Iberia. When they had established themselves, they gave additional force to the empires of Urartu and Man in their atlantian ethnic part, founded later on the empire of the Medes and Parsas (D) and provided at least the great kings of the Perses, who changed completely the world of the East to atlantian points of view, which will be shown in a separate chapter.

Also the Assyrians (D) profited at first from the wave of immigrants. Thanks of big parts of atlantian troops they modernized their forces and made them for some time the most powerful and most successful of the region. But than they had big problems with the more and more increasing wave of immigrants. Again and again their kings had to fight with the immigrating "Aramaeens", spent much energy for that and felt at last victim to the also by immigrants grown neighbours Babylon and Persia.(D)

The Philists and Teukres, which were some part of the Sea-People settled in the lowlands at the coast of Palestine and brought a new culture to the struck country. They lived in small city-states, each of them ruled by an atlantian "Sarens" or tyrant. They had theaters and buildings resembling the greek megaron. They were superior to the israelian people in at least two things, they possessed combat vehicles and iron. They tried to impose an iron monopoly and looked, that the Israelians could not learn to forge the new metal.

Their pecuniary and cultural lead was considerable in the time of judges and at least in the days of Saul and David (D)began the balance to be better for the Israelians, because the culture of the immigrants without mental midpoint decayed , while that of the Israelians, as a new nation with anger of learning, increased continually.

The atlantian Aramaeens founded in the today Syria in the area of Damascus, which was later on the capital of the biggest aramaeen kingdom, a couple of smaller kingdoms reaching to the South as far as Galilae until the time of the Romans.

But since the beginning a big part of the migrating people went further to the East to the as well interesting Mesopotamia. Here they overthrew the rule of the Kassites, a nation coming from the iranean mountains with atlantian chiefs, which ruled since 1760 B.C. in Babylon.(D) Also Assyria (D) became immigration country of a large part of people. The effect of these settlements in the babylonian and persian area will be mentioned in separat chapters.
Another part went further East, crossed the South of Persia under partly big loss in the deserts and dry valleys of eastern Iran and reached at least the valley of the Indus. The here still settling rests of the Indus-culture with their towns Harappa and Mohenjo-Daro, nearly 3000 years old, were overrun. The inhabitants were killed or driven away and the landsettled by the conquerors.

The bigger part went further and joined the crowd of roaming people which had chosen the longer but better way through the russian plains and Afghanistan. At least in the valley of the Ganges, which has a character equally to their lost paradise in the South of Iberia the migration ended. Here a big part of the former Atlantians settled again. In the history of India (D) they are called Arians. Here they settled again and formed a high culture which is characterized by much items of atlantian tradition.

Here will be given only some examples:
The cow or the bull played a big roll in Atlantis. It was worshiped as a god. In India, as the only country on earth, the cow is holy. It is forbidden to slaughter it and it has unlimited privileges. Possibly this is the sign of gratitude of the old Atlantians to their true companion at the long way from Europe to India. Without the cows, which were base of feeding and means of transport at the decades lasting way, they had never reached it. Nowadays India is therefore the country with the biggest number of cows on earth.

The caste system in India is an image of the old horizontal structure of the atlantian state.(D) It goes from the upper class (in Atlantis descendants of gods, in India Bramahnes ) over several layers, which were in Atlantis priests, officials, warriors, tradesman, farmer, dealer to the underneath men, which wer created as servants of the other (see Platon Kritias). In India, where the traditional caste system was forbidden by the english government, this structure was new formed and fitted for the conditions of democracy, but the principle is preserved.

The population of India is predominantly friendly and not warring. Atlantis and the identical country of the Phaeaks in the Odyssee of Homer was known in the whole Mediterranean for its hospitality and helpfulness. The Atlantian Empire was a country of peace, joy of life and prosperity. This is generously documented in the cultural inheritance of Crete and Etruria.(D) The blossoming of the Atlantian Empire from 2000 til 1250 B.C. is not without reason known as "the Golden Age" in history of mankind.
Also in India the unrestricted pleasure of life plays a big roll. In spite of their poverty men are satisfied, friendly and helpful. Sexuality and joy of sex are natural and without any scruple depicted and practised. Also Tharsis and its successor in the times of Rome, Gades, were known as towns full of joy of life. The "puellae gaditaniae" ,the girls of Gades, were famous as far as Rome. Cults of fertility and the wish of reproduction had a big meaning in the cultural life of all nations with atlantic tradition.

The Situation after the Emigration of the Atlantian People in Europe
The consequence of the emigration of the biggest culture supporting part of people out of the center regions of the atlantian settling area was a nearly complete decay of culture in these areas. Into the nearly depopulated areas of Austria, West-Germany, France,(D) Iberia and the British Islands immigrated, coming from the East, since 600 B.C. groups of people which are usually today called "Celts".(D)

In the beginning they were probably fringe groups of the iranean indigenous population, which were driven out of their country by the Atlantians. Probably there were in it also rests of the Indus-culture. They spread over the only thin settled regions, abandoned by the Atlantians, took possession of the megalithic monuments and integrated them into their religion, which was originally a religion of nature. With them returned parts of the atlantian people, which had settled at the long way at suitable appearing places or did not like or were not been able to go further.

After the about 600 B.C. quickly beginning bettering of climate, which caused periods of drought in many regions of the East a big part of the atlantian people remembered their old, humid native country at the sea, where these problems were unknown and returned to it.

It is very possible, that the caste of druids,(D) which gained a special roll at the Celts, were in their origin groups of in the country resting or soon returning atlantian priests. Of priests, who did not like to abandon their sanctuary or returned to it and saved some knowledge of the Atlantians to the time of Celts.

For reason of their knowledge they were entrusted with the education of the young people of the upper class. The fact, that it was forbidden to note the knowledge of the druids, as usual in the Atlantian Empire and that this knowledge was only oral reported in druid schools to especially selected pupils points out to the meaning, that the druids did not dare to give the knowledge to the folk, probably because they thought that it was not sufficiently mature for it.

This and with the run of time increasing lack of pupils of atlantian roots lead to the decline of druid knowledge, so that no equal cultural and religious base was given against the new ideas, imported by the Romans. The holy meaning, which was given to the mistletoe on the oaks could be a sign , that the caste of the druids felt in the nation of the Celts like the mistletoe on the oaks.

The northern fringe groups of the Atlantians, in first line these of the baltic region gave only a small share to the emigration. Their base of feeding was wide reaching fishing and hunting so that they were not affected as their farming southern neighbours by the worsening of climate.(D) The catastrophe itself had not reached them directly. They formed later the core of the again over Europe spreading groups of people of atlantian origin. They were strengthened in that by from the East returning groups of "Skyths".

Because they were only fringe groups they were insufficiently at home in the atlantian culture. Therefore they were not able to oppose to the by the Romans imported culture and the religion of Christianity. Interesting is in this context, that some parts of the not by Romans occupied Germany was won for Christianity by irish monks.

These "Christians" of irish origin were mostly to Christianity converted druids or at least men who were very near to atlantian religion and discerned that the theory of peace of Christ and his qualities as man of salvation and son of god was not far away from their "culture-bringers".

Basing on this own insight and the knowledge of the atlantian religion it was easy to convince the Germans also of the compatibility of both religions, which lead in praxis to the assumption of many "heathen customs", that means ,atlantian traditions, into Christianity. So is, for example, the festival of spring "Eastern" attributed to the atlantian goddess of fertility "Ostara", who is no other than the "Astarte" or "Aschera" of the Kanaanites or the "Ishtar" of the Babylonians. At the other side the steeple of the churches in the northern countries is reflecting the menhir of the Atlantians.

_______________________________________

Read to this, (for the moment only available in German language) :

DIE GESCHICHTE VON ATLANTIS, der vergessene Ursprung unserer Kultur
from Karl Juergen Hepke
Publication at the beginning 2004, TRIGA-VERLAG, D 63571 Gelnhausen, Germany, Hardcover, 270 Seiten, Eur 19,80

[This message has been edited by dhill757 (edited 07-06-2004).]

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Arx
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Posts: 5
From: Chipiona
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 07-05-2004 01:06     Click Here to See the Profile for Arx     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very interesting but the title should read :

Here's a hypothesis connecting Tartessus with the Sea People:

and if we replace all mentions of Atlantians with Tartessians then it makes much more sense. I do find interesting the theory that the Celts where originaly Tartessians that migrated away and came back home after ? years. Anyone has more information and references about this?

dhill757 the links you posted dont work, here i resposted them:

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/seapeople.htm

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/hittites/f/seapeople.htm

http://www.tolos.de/sea-people.e.htm

[This message has been edited by Arx (edited 07-05-2004).]

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atalante
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posted 07-05-2004 01:29     Click Here to See the Profile for atalante     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Here is a comprehensive 25-page study of the Sea People phenomenon, by R. Tykot.
http://luna.cas.usf.edu/~rtykot/PR5%20-%20Etruscan%20Studies%201994.pdf

[This message has been edited by atalante (edited 07-05-2004).]

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Riven
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posted 07-05-2004 04:43     Click Here to See the Profile for Riven     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My view of the Sea Peoples is that they have been around for a long time since Ships were first built in Egypt around 2500 bC. We can even consider the Egytians as Sea Peoples to other countries.

The Sea Peoples of 1200 bC were a group of(possibly left over Troy Illiad nomads who wondered for 10 years) Pirates who formed in the Eastern Mediterranean invading from the North on Egypt.

The Sea Peoples also relate to the Nine Bows which also relates to older Nubian Bows and the ongoing battle with Libyans.

I would like to propose that the Teresh, or Tarshish cultures were none other than the Tarxien (Tarshin) cultures of Malta which would make more sense than the Tartessos area because of the distance involved and lack of evidence.(Gades 800 bC) The Pirates mergered in the eastern mediterranean. The Sardinians probably was the extent of the Sea Peoples on the European side at that time.

The Lukka also could have been from Lipari)

Something I have seen no mention from other Scholars.

[This message has been edited by Riven (edited 07-05-2004).]

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docyabut
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posted 07-05-2004 11:55     Click Here to See the Profile for docyabut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think there was a mixture of sea people, that fled from the Bible flood around the Black Sea, and major earthquakes soon after that hit the coast of the atlantic, most likey from the eruption of Thera.

http://www.brunel.ac.uk/depts/geo/iainsub/studwebpage/davies/index2.htm

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docyabut
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posted 07-05-2004 14:44     Click Here to See the Profile for docyabut     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The mediterranean is the most well documented region, when considering earthquakes as the catastrophic cause of this demise.

Earthquake storms along the mediterranean, could have made many mixtures of sea people

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rockessence
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posted 07-05-2004 19:25     Click Here to See the Profile for rockessence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Riven,
Sea-going ships were being used at least as far back as 9,500 years ago in the Baltic Sea.

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cleasterwood
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posted 07-06-2004 05:08     Click Here to See the Profile for cleasterwood     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Riven,
You're wrong about the ships. Scientists have concluded that Khufu's ship was a sea-going vessel and a very sturdy one I might add. That dates it back to 3500 bc. They have to be much older than your given date and mine for that matter as building ships was a practice that took time to develop and was in full swing by the reign of Khufu.

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atalante
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posted 07-06-2004 05:48     Click Here to See the Profile for atalante     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If we assume that the Sea Peoples originated in the east, but migrated eventually to adjacent regions of Sardinia, Sicily. Etruria, etc.:

then the Sea Peoples seem to have seized and settled land which Plato described as THE EASTERN BORDER OF ATLANTEAN territory, on the northern side of the Med.


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rockessence
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posted 07-06-2004 10:36     Click Here to See the Profile for rockessence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I repeat!!!

"Sea-going ships were being used AT LEAST as far back as 9,500 years ago in and out of the Baltic Sea."

They went to the Mediterranean, established migrations to new homelands (Crete, etc.), and then established trade back to the Baltic for AMBER.

These ships were of the tall-front-and-back style, which were easily reversed in the water or from a beach for a fast getaway.

They are still being made in Scandinavia, and are still in evidence in the design of the boats of Venice. They were large, fast and deep-sea worthy, and the sails were made of the wool of a particular northern sheep whose oily hair rendered it almost impervious to water. This woven fabric has been discovered recently in archeological digs.

[This message has been edited by rockessence (edited 07-06-2004).]

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Riven
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posted 07-06-2004 11:19     Click Here to See the Profile for Riven     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry guys, I meant since Ships in Egypt were first built roughly around 2500 bC.

Not that is when ships were first built in general.

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Absonite
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posted 07-06-2004 17:07     Click Here to See the Profile for Absonite     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Rockessence,
I think you might find this interesting about the Danubians and the amber trade as well as the "mariners" of 12,000 B.C..
Let me know how it fits into your theory.

ANDITES OF THE MEDITERRANEAN ISLES


During the decline of culture in Mesopotamia there persisted for some time a superior civilization on the islands of the eastern Mediterranean.

About 12,000 B.C. a brilliant tribe of Andites migrated to Crete. This was the only island settled so early by such a superior group, and it was almost two thousand years before the descendants of these mariners spread to the neighboring isles. This group were the narrow-headed, smaller-statured Andites who had intermarried with the Vanite division of the northern Nodites. They were all under six feet in height and had been literally driven off the mainland by their larger and inferior fellows. These emigrants to Crete were highly skilled in textiles, metals, pottery, plumbing, and the use of stone for building material. They engaged in writing and carried on as herders and agriculturists.

Almost two thousand years after the settlement of Crete a group of the tall descendants of Adamson made their way over the northern islands to Greece, coming almost directly from their highland home north of Mesopotamia. These progenitors of the Greeks were led westward by Sato, a direct descendant of Adamson and Ratta.

The group which finally settled in Greece consisted of three hundred and seventy-five of the selected and superior people comprising the end of the second civilization of the Adamsonites. These later sons of Adamson carried the then most valuable strains of the emerging white races. They were of a high intellectual order and, physically regarded, the most beautiful of men since the days of the first Eden.

Presently Greece and the Aegean Islands region succeeded Mesopotamia and Egypt as the Occidental center of trade, art, and culture. But as it was in Egypt, so again practically all of the art and science of the Aegean world was derived from Mesopotamia except for the culture of the Adamsonite forerunners of the Greeks. All the art and genius of these latter people is a direct legacy of the posterity of Adamson, the first son of Adam and Eve, and his extraordinary second wife, a daughter descended in an unbroken line from the pure Nodite staff of Prince Caligastia. No wonder the Greeks had mythological traditions that they were directly descended from gods and superhuman beings.

The Aegean region passed through five distinct cultural stages, each less spiritual than the preceding, and erelong the last glorious era of art perished beneath the weight of the rapidly multiplying mediocre descendants of the Danubian slaves who had been imported by the later generations of Greeks.

It was during this age in Crete that the mother cult of the descendants of Cain attained its greatest vogue. This cult glorified Eve in the worship of the "great mother." Images of Eve were everywhere. Thousands of public shrines were erected throughout Crete and Asia Minor. And this mother cult persisted on down to the times of Christ, becoming later incorporated in the early Christian religion under the guise of the glorification and worship of Mary the earth mother of Jesus.

By about 6500 B.C. there had occurred a great decline in the spiritual heritage of the Andites. The descendants of Adam were widespreadly dispersed and had been virtually swallowed up in the older and more numerous human races. And this decadence of Andite civilization, together with the disappearance of
their religious standards, left the spiritually impoverished races of the world in a deplorable condition.

By 5000 B.C. the three purest strains of Adam's descendants were in Sumeria, northern Europe, and Greece. The whole of Mesopotamia was being slowly deteriorated by the stream of mixed and darker races which filtered in from Arabia. And the coming of these inferior peoples contributed further to the scattering abroad of the biologic and cultural residue of the Andites. From all over the fertile crescent the more adventurous peoples poured westward to the islands. These migrants cultivated both grain and vegetables, and they brought domesticated animals with them.

About 5000 B.C. a mighty host of progressive Mesopotamians moved out of the Euphrates valley and settled upon the island of Cyprus; this civilization was wiped out about two thousand years subsequently by the barbarian hordes from the north.

Another great colony settled on the Mediterranean near the later site of Carthage. And from north Africa large numbers of Andites entered Spain and later mingled in Switzerland with their brethren who had earlier come to Italy from the Aegean Islands.

When Egypt followed Mesopotamia in cultural decline, many of the more able and advanced families fled to Crete, thus greatly augmenting this already advanced civilization. And when the arrival of inferior groups from Egypt later threatened the civilization of Crete, the more cultured families moved on west to Greece.

The Greeks were not only great teachers and artists, they were also the world's greatest traders and colonizers. Before succumbing to the flood of inferiority which eventually engulfed their art and commerce, they succeeded in planting so many outposts of culture to the west that a great many of the advances in early Greek civilization persisted in the later peoples of southern Europe, and many of the mixed descendants of these Adamsonites became incorporated in the tribes of the adjacent mainlands.

8. THE DANUBIAN ANDONITES


The Andite peoples of the Euphrates valley migrated north to Europe to mingle with the blue men and west into the Mediterranean regions to mix with the remnants of the commingled Saharans and the southern blue men. And these two branches of the white race were, and now are, widely separated by the broad-headed mountain survivors of the earlier Andonite tribes which had long inhabited these central regions.

These descendants of Andon were dispersed through most of the mountainous regions of central and southeastern Europe. They were often reinforced by arrivals from Asia Minor, which region they occupied in considerable strength. The ancient Hittites stemmed directly from the Andonite stock; their pale skins and broad heads were typical of that race. This strain was carried in Abraham's ancestry and contributed much to the characteristic facial appearance of his later Jewish descendants who, while having a culture and religion derived from the Andites, spoke a very different language. Their tongue was distinctly Andonite.

The tribes that dwelt in houses erected on piles or log piers over the lakes of Italy, Switzerland, and southern Europe were the expanding fringes of the African, Aegean, and, more especially, the Danubian migrations.


The Danubians were Andonites, farmers and herders who had entered Europe through the Balkan peninsula and were moving slowly northward by way of the Danube valley. They made pottery and tilled the land, preferring to live in the valleys. The most northerly settlement of the Danubians was at Liege in Belgium. These tribes deteriorated rapidly as they moved away from the center and source of their culture. The best pottery is the product of the earlier settlements.

The Danubians became mother worshipers as the result of the work of the missionaries from Crete. These tribes later amalgamated with groups of Andonite sailors who came by boats from the coast of Asia Minor, and who were also mother worshipers. Much of central Europe was thus early settled by these mixed types of the broad-headed white races which practiced mother worship and the religious rite of cremating the dead, for it was the custom of the mother cultists to burn their dead in stone huts.

9. THE THREE WHITE RACES


The racial blends in Europe toward the close of the Andite migrations became generalized into the three white races as follows:

1. The northern white race. This so-called Nordic race consisted primarily of the blue man plus the Andite but also contained a considerable amount of Andonite blood, together with smaller amounts of the red and yellow Sangik. The northern white race thus encompassed these four most desirable human stocks. But the largest inheritance was from the blue man. The typical early Nordic was long-headed, tall, and blond. But long ago this race became thoroughly mixed with all of the branches of the white peoples.

The primitive culture of Europe, which was encountered by the invading Nordics, was that of the retrograding Danubians blended with the blue man. The Nordic-Danish and the Danubian-Andonite cultures met and mingled on the Rhine as is witnessed by the existence of two racial groups in Germany today.

The Nordics continued the trade in amber from the Baltic coast, building up a great commerce with the broadheads of the Danube valley via the Brenner Pass. This extended contact with the Danubians led these northerners into mother worship, and for several thousands of years cremation of the dead was almost universal throughout Scandinavia. This explains why remains of the earlier white races, although buried all over Europe, are not to be found--only their ashes in stone and clay urns. These white men also built dwellings; they never lived in caves. And again this explains why there are so few evidences of the white man's early culture, although the preceding Cro-Magnon type is well preserved where it has been securely sealed up in caves and grottoes. As it were, one day in northern Europe there is a primitive culture of the retrogressing Danubians and the blue man and the next that of a suddenly appearing and vastly superior white man.

2. The central white race. While this group includes strains of blue, yellow, and Andite, it is predominantly Andonite. These people are broad-headed, swarthy, and stocky. They are driven like a wedge between the Nordic and
Mediterranean races, with the broad base resting in Asia and the apex penetrating eastern France.


For almost twenty thousand years the Andonites had been pushed farther and farther to the north of central Asia by the Andites. By 3000 B.C. increasing aridity was driving these Andonites back into Turkestan. This Andonite push southward continued for over a thousand years and, splitting around the Caspian and Black seas, penetrated Europe by way of both the Balkans and the Ukraine. This invasion included the remaining groups of Adamson's descendants and, during the latter half of the invasion period, carried with it considerable numbers of the Iranian Andites as well as many of the descendants of the Sethite priests.

By 2500 B.C. the westward thrust of the Andonites reached Europe. And this overrunning of all Mesopotamia, Asia Minor, and the Danube basin by the barbarians of the hills of Turkestan constituted the most serious and lasting of all cultural setbacks up to that time. These invaders definitely Andonized the character of the central European races, which have ever since remained characteristically Alpine.

3. The southern white race. This brunet Mediterranean race consisted of a blend of the Andite and the blue man, with a smaller Andonite strain than in the north. This group also absorbed a considerable amount of secondary Sangik blood through the Saharans. In later times this southern division of the white race was infused by strong Andite elements from the eastern Mediterranean.

The Mediterranean coastlands did not, however, become permeated by the Andites until the times of the great nomadic invasions of 2500 B.C. Land traffic and trade were nearly suspended during these centuries when the nomads invaded the eastern Mediterranean districts. This interference with land travel brought about the great expansion of sea traffic and trade; Mediterranean sea-borne commerce was in full swing about forty-five hundred years ago. And this development of marine traffic resulted in the sudden expansion of the descendants of the Andites throughout the entire coastal territory of the Mediterranean basin.

These racial mixtures laid the foundations for the southern European race, the most highly mixed of all. And since these days this race has undergone still further admixture, notably with the blue-yellow-Andite peoples of Arabia. This Mediterranean race is, in fact, so freely admixed with the surrounding peoples as to be virtually indiscernible as a separate type, but in general its members are short, long-headed, and brunet.

In the north the Andites, through warfare and marriage, obliterated the blue men, but in the south they survived in greater numbers. The Basques and the Berbers represent the survival of two branches of this race, but even these peoples have been thoroughly admixed with the Saharans.

This was the picture of race mixture presented in central Europe about 3000 B.C. In spite of the partial Adamic default, the higher types did blend.

These were the times of the New Stone Age overlapping the oncoming Bronze Age. In Scandinavia it was the Bronze Age associated with mother worship. In southern France and Spain it was the New Stone Age associated with sun worship. This was the time of the building of the circular and roofless sun temples. The European white races were energetic builders, delighting to set up great stones as tokens to the sun, much as did their later-day descendants at Stonehenge. The vogue of sun worship indicates that this was a great period of agriculture in southern Europe.

The superstitions of this comparatively recent sun-worshiping era even now persist in the folkways of Brittany. Although Christianized for over fifteen hundred years, these Bretons still retain charms of the New Stone Age for warding off the evil eye. They still keep thunderstones in the chimney as protection against lightning. The Bretons never mingled with the Scandinavian Nordics. They are survivors of the original Andonite inhabitants of western Europe, mixed with the Mediterranean stock.

But it is a fallacy to presume to classify the white peoples as Nordic, Alpine, and Mediterranean. There has been altogether too much blending to permit such a grouping. At one time there was a fairly well-defined division of the white race into such classes, but widespread intermingling has since occurred, and it is no longer possible to identify these distinctions with any clarity. Even in 3000 B.C. the ancient social groups were no more of one race than are the present inhabitants of North America.

This European culture for five thousand years continued to grow and to some extent intermingle. But the barrier of language prevented the full reciprocation of the various Occidental nations. During the past century this culture has been experiencing its best opportunity for blending in the cosmopolitan population of North America; and the future of that continent will be determined by the quality of the racial factors which are permitted to enter into its present and future populations, as well as by the level of the social culture which is maintained.
http://www.urantia.com/cgi-bin/webglimpse/mfs/usr/local/www/data/papers?link=http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper80.html&file;=/usr/local/www/data/papers/paper80.html&line;=151#mfs

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rockessence
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posted 07-06-2004 19:37     Click Here to See the Profile for rockessence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Absonite,
Thanks for the facinating read!!
Those Urantia folks really had something going on there, didn't they?

I was tempted many times to ask Boreas for input...Perhaps that will happen if he has time.

Did you notice what was said about the Nordic races burning the dead and finding pots with ashes...

In the Bock saga it tells of how when elders choose to die. They would pick a sunny day and then would have concluded all the dealings with family and aquaintances, given away what they chose to, then walk, or be carried toi a "high place" from which to jump. This place would be the traditional place for that family..a high rock or outcropping perhaps. As the elder would stand up there alone, below them all the friends and family would walk forward single-file to make eye contact with them, one at a time. At a signal, all below would stare at the sun to blind themselves, so as the elder fell to their death, it would be private. Then the body would be carried to the place of the pyre, to be burned, the ashes then taken to the Family tree to be buried at the roots. Each family had it's own tree. When the hoards of the Holy Roman Empire armies swarmed over Finland to destroy the last pagan culture, they cut down and burned all the ancient "family trees" as well as massacred all who refused to be "Christian". All the holy places of wood were burned and the stone places were taken, stone by stone, out onto the ice of the Bay of Finland, tofall to the bottom in the spring thaw.
I myself wonder if the saving of ashes in other locations were in order to carry them back eventually to some "family tree"... Also have wondered if the saving of bodies after death was also somehow related to that idea as well.

There is an old man in England, a healer, who makes healing combinations of bits of this and that plant material, frequently having to go to ancient places by dowsing for the correct plant or tree. He made something for Princess Diana many years ago, by going to a particular tree in Wales which he said was related to her family line.
It's all amazing, isn't it?

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rockessence
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posted 07-07-2004 02:33     Click Here to See the Profile for rockessence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Some more material:

Heracles was the superman of his time, his adventures were famous, they were known by all greek people, far and wide.

In time he got married with Deianeira and got his own children but in a spout of madness, which Hera had conjured, he killed them all.
One of those children had been named Hyllus.
Later on he got more children with Melite, the doughter of river-god Aeleus.
Again one son was named Hyllus.
This Hyllus became the king of the Phaesians, in the island of Corcyra, present-day Corfu.
Later on he emigrated with some of his people to the Cronian sea, as is told by Apollonius Rhodius.

This Cronian sea is none other than the Gulf of Finland, according to the British historian Robert Graves.

The reason for the immigration was to trade with amber.

The Phaesians knew the route to the Gulf of Finland from earlier expeditions they had made.
It started from the head of Adriatic sea.
Amber is still being found at the southern shore of the Gulf of Finland and at the Baltic Sea shores.
It is said to be the tears of the daughters of the sungod, Uden, or the gold of Boreas, north wind.
The amber has been tested to be from 40 to 120 million years of age, it being most probably resin from tropical conifers.
It is being found and mined mostly at 12 meters deep, where there is a layer of it, in Poland.
But why just 12 meters deep?
At that time there must have existed forests of such trees.
Here is a direct link to the Bock Saga, from 40 to 120 million years ago tropical weather had existed here.

When could the Phaesians have made this expedition? Good guess is presumably 13th century BZ. or earlier.
But history does not mention anything more about the Phaesians, or of their king Hyllus, so the track is lost here.

The areas around Baltic Sea and the Gulf of Finland were called Hyperborea.
Hyper meaning extreme and borea north.

But also areas as far east as Altai-mountains, and England to the west, have been thought to be the Hyperborea, but that sounds unlikely.
They are too far east and west
.
Finland is due north, looking from Greece and Greek people are the ones who used that expression.

HYPERBOREAN VIRGINS AND THE MESSAGE

A strange thing is to be seen, even today, in the holy island of Delos, which is in the middle of Cyclades and of greek archipelago, in the Aegean Sea.

There are two graves of hyperborean virgins in that island.

Even their names are known, Opis and Arge, in one grave.
Two others are Laodice and Hyperokhe, in another grave.
And their’s are the only graves left in that island, after it was purified by removing all other bodies out of by 400 BZ.

But let’s begin anew.
According to Herodotus, two virgins were sent from Hyperborea to bring gifts to the goddess and protector of childbirth, Eileithyia.
Their names were Laodice and Hyperokhe.
Five men, called ”perferies”, were sent with them as guardians for a long and arduous trip.
They came via the land of Scyths, which was northwest of Black Sea, where Ukraine is today.
From there to the head of Adriatic sea and thence to the mainland of Greece, through the island of Euboia and finally to Delos.
Those four hyperborean maidens remained in Delos the rest of their lives, as priestesses, in the temple of Artemis, and there they also died.
They were highly respected for many centuries.
When Delian youngsters got married, both girls and boys cut a lock of hair and placed it on the grave of Laodice and Hyperokhe.
To ask for easy deliveries and healthy babies.
An olive tree grew on the grave when Herodotus saw it, at 450 BZ.

But Delians told him that two maidens, named Arge and Opis, had come there first, from Hyperborea, at the same time with the two gods, Artemis and Apollo.
Arge and Opis had come to help and assist Leto with the delivery of the two gods.
They were respected by a choir that sung a song a Lycian man, named Olen, also said to be hyperborean, had composed for them, during the festivals that were held every fourth or later every fifth year.
Their names were repeatedly mentioned in that song.
When an animal was sacrificed, it was eaten mostly but the hind leg was burnt on the altar and the ashes were spread to the grave of Arge and Opis.

But this is important, Arge and Opis brought with them a message, bronze plates in which were written the joys and grievings of Paradise and Hades.
This story is to be found in the writings of Plato.
In his book number seven, he writes what Socrates had told to his friend Aksiokhos.
Socrates mentions the story he had heard from a man named Gobryes.
The grandfather of this Gobryes had been sent to the island of Delos to save the valuables from the marauding Persians, in the year when they were invading Greece, 480 BZ.
This here is the text of the bronze plates;
”Soul goes to the land of shady light after parting from the body, deep underground, where Pluto rules as a King, areas which are as large as the halls of Zeus.
When the Earth is in the center of universe, and universe is like a ball, gods of the Sky rule one half and the gods of Hades rule the other half.
Other gods are brothers, and others are the children of brothers.
On the road to the outer court of Pluto there are iron gates which are closed with iron keys.
When gates are opened, first Acheron and then Cocytos rivers must be crossed to get to the fields of truth where Rhadamanthys and Minos wait for you.
There the judges ask what kind of life you have lived when the soul was still within you.
(Rhadamanthys judged the asian people, Minos the european.)
There you cannot lie.
Those who have obeyed the voice of good consience, go to the fields of blessed.
There fruits grow in a mild climate, clean rivers flow and fields are full of springtime flowers.
Philsophers talk, plays are being acted, choirs dance and music is being played.
There are no pains, life is full of enjoyments, the weather being not too cold, nor extremely hot, but the sunshine warms pleasantly.
Festivals are being held any time, no reason is needed for them.
Front seats are reserved for those who are engaged to the Mysteries, there they perform the holy rites.
The story tells that right here Herakles and Dionysos were initiated in to the holy Mysteries before they stepped down to the land of Hades, and that it was the Queen of the Eleusian Fields who encouraged them to do so.

But those who have led a criminal life go to the dark caves of Tartaros where the spirits of revenge take hold of them.
There the daughters of Danae endlessly scoop water and Tantalos suffers from unending thirst, Tityos, who’s mutilated organs just keep growing forever and Sisyfos, who pushes a big boulder uphill to start it anew time after time.
There the tongues of beasts lick them and the flames of the torches burn them.

Just figure it yourself, Aksiokhos, what Gobryes told me.
My own thinking is in doubt, but I do know that when souls part from us they are out of reach of pains.”

This is the text of the bronzeplates that Arge and Opis had brought with them from the land of Hyperborea, as told to Socrates by Gobryes.
These plates are no more to be seen because barbarians stole all metals later on, but we are lucky to see the texts from the writings of Plato.

Were these maidens, Arge, Opis, Laodice and Hyperokhe Finns or the descendants of the Hyllean people who had emigrated from the island of Corfu to the Cronian Sea, we will never get to know, perhaps.
But the writing of those bronze-plates describing the conditions of Paradise and Hades were most probably from Hel.
Herodotus wonders that even in his time, 450 BZ, those graves were to be seen in Delos.
But they are still there today, well kept and marked, in the maps too.

But when were those virgins buried there?
Three vases have been found in their graves beside the bones during the excavations.
They have been dated to be made at the Mycenaean time, 1600–1200 BZ.
Herodotus says that Herakles lived 900 years before him.
That would be about 1350 BZ.
It could be assumed that Hyllean people emigrated to the Cronian Sea at about 13th century BZ, or earlier, and that hyperboreans sent those virgins to Delos soon after.

The question is; how did they know anything at all about Delos?
They must have known the importance of that island and the way to get there much before.
Messengers had been sent from Hel to Hellas by the 0 meridian, which is the direct route, in time immemorial, as is told in the Bock Saga.
Herodotus tells also that a hyperborean man named Abaris had traveled widely without eating anything at all carrying an arrow with him??
What story is hidden here, we don’t know, and Herodotus is too shy to tell.
But here we can use the ”Rot” language, trying to find out.
A-BAR would mean a naked, under his tunic, Aser man, (IS probably added later) carrying the arrow, which would mean that he was the ”breeder”.

But when hyperboreans realised that the virgins they sent never came back they ceased sending any people to bring offerings, instead they gave the gifts to a neighbouring nation which sent them to a next one until they reached Delos at the end.
The gifts were always wrapped in wheat straws.
Herodotos tell’s that still in his time women from neighbouring islands brought gifts that were wrapped in wheat straws, to the temple of Artemis.
Hyperborea is by Greek mythology an area north of northwind, where there is eternal springtime and constant sunshine, that is; the land of Uden, in Finland.

Another question is, why Delos?
Was it because Knossos in Crete and the Minoan culture had been devastated by the huge tsunami or wave at about 1500 BZ which was caused perhaps by the explosion of the volcano at Santorini, or Thera?
This seems possible.

LETO, APOLLO AND ARTEMIS,
THE BIRTH OF GODS

Leto gave birth to Apollo and Artemis, the immortals, after Arge and Opis were sent there to help her with the delivery, which took place along the shores of the sacred lake, under a palm tree.
(The lake has been dried out but a palmtree still grows there.)

Apollo, the sungod with a golden hair, was born and he became protector, and god of music and other arts, as well as prophecy. He is also said to be the son of Hephaestus, the smith-god, and that he brought the laws to Arcadia.
He was also connected to the development of intellectuality, philosophy, astronomy and medicine.
There he practised with his bow and arrows and played with his seven-string lyre.
The music he played was said to have therapeutic effects.
(Check the Kalevala, poem 41, same story)

Artemis, Apollo’s sister, became a virgin goddess, a protector of hunters as well as wild animals.
She was also the patroness of motherhood and deliveries.
(Again a connection to Bock Saga)

Later on temples were erected for both of them and lavish celebrations were held every fourth, or later every fifth year.
Delos became famous just as the birth-place of Apollo and Artemis.
The fame lasted there nearly 1500 years.

These symbolic stories were the way to tell to the people about the beginning of the world and life.

Notice the syllable ”RA” in the names of Herakles and Hera.

THE (HI)STORY OF DELOS


Delos is a small island, just about five kilometers long and one and half wide.
It is relatively flat, only 112 meters high Mount Kynthos rises in the middle of it.
It was the center of religious, political and commercial activities for nearly 1500 years.
It’s size was not proportional to it’s importance at all.
It is situated right in the middle of Cyclades and also of Aegean Sea, between mainland Greece and Asia Minor.
And from Crete to Lemnos.

* * *

The excavations made by the French Archaeological School of Athen’s have revealed the ruins of the first settler’s houses on the slopes of Mount Kynthos to be from the early cycladic, the Carian period, at the 3rd millenium BZ.
Next populations there were the Mycenaeans, 1600–1200 BZ, on the more level ground on the north-west corner of the island.
It was during the Mycenaean time when the Hyperborean virgins came there to bring the bronze-plates in which were written the details of Paradise and Hades.

Ionians had invaded the eastern side of the Aegean Sea and the archipelago at about 1200 BZ.
They were the ones which started the holy quadrennial festivals, the Delia, to honor Apollo, Artemis and Leto, their mother, no later than on the 7th century BZ, at least.
Some scholars believe that Ionians may have perpetuated even more ancient tradition that they acquired from the Carians who inhabited these islands before the great Ionian migration.

* * *

According to Greek mythology, Apollo had a son, Anios, who became the king of Delos, and the first high-priest of the sanctuary of his divine father.
Anios had three doughters, Elais (Olive girl), Spermo (Seed Girl) and Oeno (Wine Girl), who received from Dionysos, one of their divine ancestors, the gift of producing olive oil, grain and wine at will.

Aside from being the birthplace of Apollo and Artemis, Delos was also the centre of the very ancient cult of the fertility goddess known as Great Mother Earth, marble idols of whom are found in virtually every Bronze-Age grave in Cyclades.
Artemis was the successor of this goddess, as well as the protector of wild animals.
She was also considered to be the protectress of childbirth and motherhood, which role she had inherited from Eileithyia, a goddess of Mycenaean era.

Delos was also held sacred because of Theseus, who had stopped there on his return from Crete where he had slain the monster Minotauros.
A crane dance was performed during the great Delian festivals in memory of his escape from the labyrinth with the aid of bundle of string which Ariadne, the daughter of King Minos, had given him because she had fell in love with Theseus.

Geranos was the name Delians had given to that dance, which twisted to and fro and sideways as is the form of labyrinth.
Dancers had a white piece of cloth in their hands to mark the string which enabled Theseus to find his way out.
It is still being danced in Greece.
Another theory for the dance is that the dancers copied the zigzag flying of Leto when she tried to find a place to land for the childbirth.
Hera had employed the snake Python to chase her, so she had to twist here and there in order to avoid being caught.


Great festivities were held in Delos every fourth year, to honor Apollo and Artemis.
Later on, during the Athenian domination, every fifth year.
They were sumptuous.
During the Theoria, as it was called, delegations from all Greek nations participated by sending envoys, called theoroi, to march in front of cavalcade of pilgrims and choirs that sung a song called Prosodion, to honor the immortals, Apollo and Artemis, and their mother Leto.
Treasurers followed, bringing gifts to the sanctuary and a golden crown to Apollo.
During the festivals choirs competed, actors played and poets recited.
Athletes run in the stadium and even horseraces were being held for the first time.
Because it was forbidden to execute anybody during the festivals, Socrates had to wait one month for his turn in an Athenian jail, at 399 BZ.
(That jail is still to be seen in Athens, by the way.)

Ceremonial oxen had been slaughtered at the beginning of the festivities, at the end they were eaten in a huge banquet.
The Geranos-dance was the highlight of the festival, it was danced in front of the Apollonian altar.
Athenians would come with the same black-sailed ship that Theseus had used on his Cretan trip.

Athenian tyrant Peisistratus ruled from 546 to 528 BZ and he ordered Delos to be ”cleansed” by removing all bodies out of their graves within the sight of the temple.
In 426 BZ the Athenians under Nikias carried out a more thorough purification on Delos by ordering the rest of all graves to be dug open and the remains to be transferred to a neighbouring, Rheneian island, into a so-called purification pit.
It was forbidden even to give birth or die in the holy island of Delos.

But the graves of the hyperborean virgins were left intact.

After this last purification the games and festivities were ruled to be held every five years and they were more lavish than ever.

During the Classical and Hellenistic periods Delos was involved in some of the most important political events in history of ancient Greece.
During the invasion of Greece by Darius in 490 BZ the Persian fleet, commanded by Datis, first reduced Naxos and then attacked other islands but he spared Delos, leaving the island and its inhabitants unharmed.
Datis went ashore just to worship at the shrine of Apollo and Artemis, piling 300 talents worth of frankincense upon their altars and burning it as offering.

Ten years later Xerxes, the heir and son of Darius, attacked Greece again, crossing the Hellespontos with a huge army and navy, causing heavy losses to the Greeks.

(This is just the case and time Plato is referring to in his text where he tells how the grandfather of Gobryes, also by the same name, being sent to Delos to save the valuables and then reading the texts on the bronze-plates Arge and Opis had brought from Hyperborea, beyond ”north wind”)

A very strange episode happened in 421 BZ when Athenians expelled all Delians from the island.
As Thukydides writes; ”Next summer the year’s truce, lasting up to the Pythian games, came to an end.
During the armistice the Athenians expelled all Delians from the island, because some crime committed during the purification of the island”.
Later on they were allowed to return after all.
In 404 BZ. Delos was liberated from Athens for a short period, but 392 BZ. they took control of the island again.
In 343 Delians petitioned for a independence of Athenian control, to no avail.
The Greek armies were defeated by Macedonians at the battle of Chaeronea in 338 BZ. but they let the Athenians to govern Delos as long as they remained Macedonian’s allies.

The situation in Delos changed greatly after the death of Alexander the Great, when Delos and other Aegean islands revolted against Athenian rule and won their freedom, under the protection of Ptolemy I Soter, the king of Egypt.
Delos became the capital of Ptolemaic League of the islands and that increased it’s importance as a financial centre.
The Ptolemies were the greatest graindealers of the time, annually they exported millions of bushels of grain.

But another era opened for Delos in the year 167 BZ when it was decreed a free port after Romans had taken control of the Greek world.
People came from Italy and from all points of compass, bringing their own gods and manners.
The population reached up to 25 000.
All kinds of goods passed through the hands of Delian merchants.
Most bizarre were perhaps the slaves that were sent from the port of Side.
As many as 10.000 slaves were passed and sold at the marketplaces, a day.
It was a wholesale market of slaves that were sold to the farms in Italy and other places.

But this spree didn’t last long.
At 88 BZ. The King of Pontos, Mithridates, attacked Delos and killed most of it’s inhabitants, taking the rest of them into slavery.
At 69 BZ. his ally, Athenodorus came to complete the destruction.
The importance of Delos was reduced to nil, it never again flourished.
Only some pirates kept it as their hideaway-place.
Athenians tried to sell it but there were no buyers.
At 5th century it was again called A-Delos, badly seen, because it was laid waste and was uninhabited.

At that state it remained until 1873 when the French Archaeological School in Athens began the excavations.
Scientific studies have continued up to this day and the history of Delos has been recorded quite well.
From 1950 on there has been organized travel from the nearby island of Mykonos, which is only about 10 km off.


The ”Rot” language, revealed by Bock Saga, will give some new and concrete translations of the names of the gods, or the energies, employed here, and of the whole story of Delos.
Dionysos, for example.
Dion being the stem, -ysos probably added later to help the pronounciation.
DI meaning to ”drink” the sperm, also from man to man, when sacrificing it, as is explained in the Bock Saga.
”O” meaning ”Uden”, and ”N” is the North Pole.
The Dionysian mysteries must have been the fertility rites mentioned in the Mythology of Väinämöinen, where sperm was sacrificed from lower ”castes” men, to an upper caste man, in order to energize him, so that the breeder had enough energy to beget children, as is explained in the next part.



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Helios
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posted 07-07-2004 13:05     Click Here to See the Profile for Helios     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting thread, with much worthy material on it. I would like to add this material on the Minoans and draw your attention to this quote from it:

"Crete appears to have been first inhabited during the Neolithic period (new stone age), from the 6th millennium BC. The earliest people may have come from Asia Minor and they were early agriculturalists with domesticated animals..."

They may have come from Asia Minor, The Asia Minor reference may or may not be accurate. I hope it is apparent, though, that scientists are speculating when they say this and that it does not disqualify other locations. The important thing is that Crete, an island, may have well been inhabited by the sixth century b.c., which means also that those who settled there could have indeed had ships, made from wood, and so, long rotted away.

Here is the full material:
http://www.dragonridge.com/greece/minoan1.htm


Mysteries of the Minoans
The Minoan civilization, based on the island of Crete, achieved political and economic dominance of the Eastern Mediterranean at their height of power. They were a sophisticated culture that was generally peaceful and enjoyed the profits of a healthy trade economy. Trading ties existed to Egypt and the Turkish coast, as indicated in the writings on Egyptian temples and by artifacts found. They have also been linked to the Atlantis legend (see Akrotiri) described by Plato. After the Minoan civilization collapsed, the Mycaneans from the mainland filled the power vacuum.

Greece is seismically active, and a series of quakes may have helped to spell the doom of Minoan civilization. All of the palace sites, which were unfortified, have repeatedly burned down. The palaces were not fortified either. Earthquakes can cause fires to start from cooking fire, oil lamps (may have used beeswax lamps though, not olive oil as suspected earlier), etc., although the Minoan usually rebuilt. Finally, some series of events overtook the Minoans, and they never did fully rebuild from that calamity.

Go to the ruins of Akrotiri on Thera.
Pulse Ventures Ltd. Greece Screensaver

The Minoans left no written histories, although they had two types of writing known as Linear A, and a Linear B. Clay accounting tablets have survived (baked accidently in the fires that periodically destroyed palaces), and tell of their economic wealth. Linear B has been deciphered, but Linear A has not. While the writing looks like scratches on clay, hand writing styles can be discerned from studying enough tablets to say that it was either the same person at one or more sites writing or that students from a certain school learned to write with a particular hand. If it is the same writer, then it poses interesting questions about travelling scribes or accountants moving from one palace to another.

Crete appears to have been first inhabited during the Neolithic period (new stone age), from the 6th millennium BC. The earliest people may have come from Asia Minor and they were early agriculturalists with domesticated animals. These people had good craft making skills and made burnished pottery that was often decorated with incised geometric motifs. Metal working was unknown and tools and weapons were made of stone, including obsidian from the Cycladic Island of Milos . Simple figurines have been found that suggest they worshipped a female fertility goddess.

The Bronze Age arrives in Crete via new immigrants, and they use bronze for creating jewellry, tools, and weapons. The use of bronze rapidly spreads on the island and the new mix of peoples becomes the Minoans. Not much is known about the Pre-Palace settlements, but there were strongly built houses of stone and brick A few settlements are at Vassiliki and Myrtos. These Pre-Palace period people left many tombs behind that have provides many artifacts from the period. There was a variety of tombs, including large vaulted tombs on the plain of the Messara, cist tombs cut into the rock at Mochlos, chamber tombs at Agia Photia, Sitia, and grave compounds at Archanes, Malia, Palaikastro and Zakros. The arts and crafts continued to develop and the pottery styles include the famous Vassiliki wares. The Vassiliki style pots have striking mottled decoration, produced by the firing, and sophisticated shapes, like the "teapot" and the tall, beaked pitchers. The first polychrome pottery makes its appearance towards the end of the period. Jewellry making, particularly gold smithing is outstanding, and early examples of seals tones made of ivory and steatite appear. The Mother Goddess is still being worshipped.

Sir Arthur Evans who excavated the palace at Knossos named them the "Minoans" after Minos, the legendary king of Crete. Very little was known about Minoan Crete prior to the late 19th century AD, and a great deal of the work was done by Sir Arthur Evans. The Minoan civilization lasted about 1200 years from 2200 BC to about 1000 BC (with the last two hundred years or so in a period of great decline). They reached the height of their prosperity around the 18th - 16th centuries during the Second Palace Period. The palace at Knossos appears to have been the center of Minoan government.

The memory of the Minoans survives only vaguely in Greek myth. Ancient authors speak mainly of Minos, the king who had his capital at Knossos. Minos was a wise lawgiver, a fair judge, and a great dominator of the sea. Homer calls him "..companion of mighty Zeus." Thucydides mentions he was the first man to hold sway over the Aegean with his fleet, and Plato mentions that Attica peninsula (Athens, etc.) paid a heavy tribute to Minos. The legend of Theseus and the Minotaur, Daedalus, etc., are all concerning Minos, a son of Zeus.

Th Minoan domination of the sea was due to their fortune in having the island home of Crete, which was the crossroads that linked the continents of Africa, Asia, and Europe. Trade in goods and ideas allowed for the growth and development of their advanced civilization. Their arts and crafts were without comparison against many of their contemporaries and had unique charms and variety.

Minoan Time Line
Neolithic 6000- 3500 BC, Bronze Age 3500 - 1100 BC. EM = Early Minoan, MM = Middle Minoan, LM = Late Minoan.

3500 or 3300 BC Pre-palace period 3300 - 2200 BC EM I Hand made pottery, but more skillfully fired. Patterned, burnished Beak Spouted Jug
2900 BC EM II Mottled red, orange and black Vasilikiware. Myrtos is from this period. Vasiliki is a communal type ruin - forerunner of the later palaces?
2300 BC First palace period 2200 - 1700 BC EM III Pottery of white spirals on a dark background develops into thin, polychrome Kamaresware.Use of potter's wheel to do this. Production of fine bronze daggers and weapons. Beginning of foreign contact.
1900 BC MM IB/IIA
Old_Palace Period.
Great strides in bronzework and other metal work. Superb goldwork being done. Harder seal stones being used. Extensive foreign contacts. Egyptian scarabs found on Crete.
1750 BC MM IIB Seal cutters workshop found at Mallia. 7000 seals found in a deposist at Phaestos. Hieroglypic deposit at Knossos.
1700 BC Second palace period 1700 - 1500 BC MM IIIA
New Palace Period.
Great palatial destruction via earthquake. Huge blocks at Knossos hurled from south facade into 'House of Fallen Blocks'. All palaces rebuilt. Most ruins seen today are from this period. Efficient plumbing and drainage systems.Marine style pottery and other excellent pottery (later pottery with more repetitive patterns). Prosperous, with many large pithoi magazines. Linear A in use.
1600 BC 1628 Thera Blows! MM IIIB
1550 BC LM IA Increasing influence on mainland Greece.
1500 BC Third palace period 1500 - 1200 BC LM IB Knossos less affected by destruction and repaired. Mycanaean influence increases. Knossos flourishes for several more generations.
1450 BC LM II
Post Palatial Period.
Widespread destruction at the end of LMI period. Most sites never reoccupied. Shrines have snake tubes and clay femal figures with upraised arms and cylindrical skirts (see Knossos). Larnake burials in chest introduced. Linear B used. Heavy Mycanaean Influence.
1400 BC LM IIIA Some evidence for a further destruction at Knossos but parts of the palace are still used.
1300 BC LM IIIB
1220 BC Post-palace period 1200 - 1050 BC LM IIIC
1050 Sub-Minoan period 1100-1000 BC Early Iron Age Geometric. Mycanaeans and Minoans lose dominance. Dorians enter the picture. The 'Polis' or city-state appears.

Go to the Archeological Museum in Heraklion which specializes in Minoan Antiquites to see a sample of the more famous works.

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First Palace period 2200 - 1700 BC
Power began to be centered around kings. The first large palace centers came into being. Excavation has revealed four large palaces at Knossos, Phaestos, Malia, and Zakros so far.

The skimpy remains of these palaces are typically discovered beneath the later palaces as the Minoans rebuilt upon the same sites. All the features of Minoan architecture are already present. The buildings are arranged around a central court and have fine facades of closely fitted stone blocks with monumental entrances. Inside, they are multi-storied and have workshops, storage magazines and sacred rooms. The finest example was uncovered in the west palace section at Phaestos. The palaces workshops are also producing fine wares already.

The gorgeous Kamaresware pottery dates to this period and the style is named after the cave of Kamares where it was first discovered. Kamaresware is exquisitely made pottery with polychrome motifs of rosettes, spirals and hatching vibrantly painted on a shiny black background, and was produced in a variety of vase shapes (see picture at left). The workshops also produced fine vases and vessels of stone and faience; seal stones of precious or semi-precious stones, with hieroglyphics and dynamic natural scenes; elegant weapons and tools; vessels of bronze or silver; jewellery of marvellous technique ("the Bee Pendant" from Malia); and charming miniature sculpture.

The Minoan religion is centered around the Mother Goddess, and the use of sacred symbols such as the sacred horns and the double axe becomes prevalent. Hieroglyphic script, which quickly developed into a linear A, was used in the palace archives.

The first palace centers and the settlements of Crete were reduced to ruins possibly by earthquakes .

Second Palace period 1700 - 1500 BC
Minoan Civilization reached its zenith in the Second Palace Period. Magnificent new palaces were built upon the ruins of the old ones. The cities around them expanded. Many lords in rural villas controlled areas in the same way as the feudal lords of the Middle Ages. Their ships carried both the products of Minoan and other societies throughout the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean to trade. The new palaces were multi-storeyed and complex. They had great courtyards with grand porticoes, broad staircases, processional paths and monumental entrances. Many rooms could be opened for air circulation and sunlight to enter via pier and door partitions making the rooms quite bright and pleasant in the summer. Benches and thrones were found in royal rooms. There were many interior light wells to allow light in through all levels of the palace via the roof. Bathrooms and water supply and drainage systems allowed for a easier style of life. Sections of the palaces were royal quarters, sacred areas (pillar crypts, tripartite shrines), audience and banquet halls. Large areas of these palaces were set aside as storage areas (magazines), and workshops also existed within the palaces. Wonderful fresco painting decorating the walls with fresh, lively scenes in an array of colors. Gypsum was a common building material used for wall siding and floors.

The marine style of pottery developed with flowing elements including stylized octopuses and seaweed.




This is a jar about 3
feet high in the marine
style with stylized seaweed. Another similar sized
jar with the stylized
octopus.
Octopus flask.

The floral style also developed inventive plants and open flowers. Frescos depicted landscapes with animals along with scenes from religious and social life. Bull jumping and other festivities were shown on the frescos. Faience work, decorative plaques, figurines such as the snake goddesses, royal gaming boards, detailed gold and silver jewellery and vessels were produced in the workshops of the day. Some very fine bronze work was achieved during this period.

The main deity is still the Mother Goddess, who is portrayed in different forms such as the "goddess with the snakes." The Bull was also worshipped as a powerful symbol of fertility beside her. Deities were worshipped in sanctuaries of the palaces, various dwellings, the peak sanctuaries, and in sacred caves. Many of the features of Minoan religion passed into the cycle of the Greek mystery religions. Most of the tombs were cut into the soft rock and had a square burial chamber and a sloping dromos. Some were still vaulted tombs with a circular or rectangular chamber.

The still undeciphered Linear A is now in use. There are about 200 surviving texts on clay tablets apparently deal with accounting and inventory information. The tablets come from the archives of palaces such as Knossos or villas and were preserved by firing in the fires that destroyed the palaces. The Phaestos Disk, with its unique hieroglyphic text, belongs to the first phase of the second palace period.

All of the centers of the second palace period were destroyed around 1450. The terrible volcanic eruption of Santorini had large impacts on Crete depending on how the ash fell, but did not have enough effects to destroy the palaces or the Minoan way of life. The eruption of Santorini may have destroyed some coastal towns and shipping, and would have depressed the economies of the eastern Mediterranean though. Terrible palace destructions did happen though (probably through earthquake again). Life resumed only at the palace at Knossos, which was reconstructed and served as the residence of a new Mycanaean (Achaean) rulers from the mainland. Their presence is inferred by the appearance of the very archaic written Greek language of Linear B and by the appearance of Palace Style pottery. Changes were made in the arrangement of the palaces, and the Knossos Throne Room and many surviving frescoes (such as the Corridor of the Procession also at Knossos) date from this period.




Bulls head found at Knossos.
Snake goddess figurine found at Knossos.

Third Palace period 1500 - 1200 BC
After the final destruction of about 1380, none of the Minoan palaces were rebuilt. Even the palace at Knossos was not rebuilt, although the city around it stayed alive. The Mycenaeans built their megara on other sites, some of which survived on the ruins of earlier royal villas (Agia Triada) and houses (Tylissos). Mycenaean centers were spread throughout all of Crete and many existed down into Greek times. The new civilization was Minoan, but its character was archaic Greek. The palaces were replaced by the austere Mycenaean megaron. Pottery styles were simpler and more uniform by repeating the same shapes with simpler decoration and patterns. Even the frescoes became more rigid in appearance. There was no substantial change in religion though.

Post-palace period 1200 - 1050
The last phase of this period was a time of decline and disorder caused by the movement of many peoples in the East Mediterranean. The forerunners of the Dorians may have begun to arrive in Crete.

Sub-Minoan Period 1100-1000 BC
Crete entered upon the purely Greek period of its history with the arrival of massive waves of Dorians at about 1100 BC. The Protogeometric period that followed (1100-900 BC) unfolded alongside the Sub-Minoan, as the earlier Minoan cultural traditions continued on especially in the mountain areas of central and eastern Crete. Many mountain top settlements existed due to their defensive locations. The use of iron, and cremation of the dead became general.

Are The Minoan Palaces Really Palaces?
There is some controversy around the actual purpose of the Minoan Palaces. Sir Arthur Evans, who first extensively excavated the site of Knossos, was the first to call the large structural ruins a "palace" at the beginning of the 20th century. Some archeologists suspect that the palaces were really temples, so they were not palaces at all. However, we know very little about the exact political and governmental structure of the Minoans as there are no written records that survived. Still, archeology has given us many clues or well founded educated guesses.

Study of the archaeological remains of the palaces revealed they served as religious and economic centers. Religion is evident as large amounts of cult equipment and areas are found in the palaces. In addition, frescoes with religious representations abound in the palace of Knossos (few frescos have survived in the other palaces). The economic aspect comes from the large storage magazines found at the palaces so they were obvious centers for regulating the flow of goods and storing them. However, there is a connection between religion and economy too, as the magazines and workshops are close to the palace shrines. The large concentrations of magazines in the west wings of all the palaces, which was also the major cult area of the palaces, also supports this idea.

The connection between religion and economy suggests the system was theocratic where the economy and government was controlled by the priesthood. Such systems were well known in Egypt with the Pharoahs as god-kings, and Mesopotamia with its temple states. There may have been king, or a priest-king or priestess-queen, or a board of priests running Minoan society. A king may have ruled in the palace with his administration carried out by a priesthood. A king may also have shared power with a priesthood too, but all these governing relationships are just suggestions. The palaces may have been palaces for royalty and a temple, but we only know for sure that there are luxurious quarters, large halls, workshops, storage areas, and religious shrines in these structures.

Mesopotamian Temples and Minoan Palace Comparison
The land of Sumer of the third millenium BC was divided into city states. Each city had the temple of the deity to whom the city belonged at its center. The temple was primarily the dwelling of the god, but also a ceremonial center, a treasury, a town hall, a store house and a commercial center. In addition it housed the priesthood and the temple workers.

Both Minoan palaces and Mesopotamian temples had:

A general resemblance between the Mesopotamian temple and the Minoan Palace in layout and design.
A substantial section was occupied by the workshops and magazines. In the Sumerian economy,controlled by the priesthood to a large extent, the temple acted as a redistribution center. It amassed wealth from the land it possesed and from tribute. This wealth was then redistributed to the population as wages for their services. Rations of flour, beer and even clothing were given as wages, as we can tell from the written records of the temples. Regarding the rituals and ceremonies that took place in the precinict of the temple, sacrifices and cult meals were among the most frequent ones.
Banquet areas and cult eating areas (possibly bench sanctuaries in Minoan Palaces exist in both types of buildings for ceremonial communal meals.
Kings emerged in 3rd millenium Sumeria because of the increasing military threat that these people faced from the invading tribes of the desert and the mountains, so kingship with the Minoans is not out of the question either.

Minoan Sources
There are many sources, but more detailed overall works on the Minoans tend to be scarce, and often very opinionated. Recent stuff is usually found in archeological journals in university libraries.

Blue Guide to Crete by Pat Cameron. Best general overall source to archeological sites and info.
The original source. Arthur Evan's massive 3 volume dig report on Knossos, which laid a great deal of groundwork. It is detailed but made prior to the field developing real excavation reports, and there have been new interpretations since on some of the material. Researchers really digging here usually end up having to look at the original field notes in pen and pencil.
Art and religion in Thera : reconstructing a Bronze Age society / Nanno Marinatos, Athens : D. & I. Mathioulakis, 1984.
Excavations at Thera / Marinatos, Spyridon Nikolaou, 1901-, Athens : s.n., 1968-.
Thera and the Aegean world III : proceedings of the third international congress, Santorini, Greece, 3-9 September 1989 / editors: D.A. Hardy, with C.G. Doumas, J.A. Sakellarakis, P.M. Warren London : Thera Foundation, 1990. Massive 3 volume set.
Knossos A Labyrinth of History. The British School at Athens, 1994.
A New Guide to the Palace of Knossos by Leonard R. Palmer.
Minoan and Mycenaean Art by Reynold Higgins.
Minoan Civilization by Stylianos Alexiou.
Minoans: Life in Bronze Age Crete by Rodney Castleden. Has annoying habit of calling all the periods New Temple. Seems technically correct overall, even if you don't agree with his theories.
Guide ot Cretan Antiquities by Costis Davaras.

Sources on Minoan Religion
It was Evans, of course, who also laid the foundations for the study of Minoan religion. In 1902 Sir Arthur Evans published the important article "The Mycenaean Tree and Pillar Cult." prior to the rich finds he would later make.

M. P. Nilsson's The Minoan-Mycenaean Religion and its Survival in Greek Religion (1927,1950).
Axel W. Persson's The Religion of Greece in Prehistoric Times (1942).
B. Rutkowski's Cult Places in the Aegean (1971, 1986).
G. Gesell's Town, Palace, and House Cult in Minoan Crete (1985).
Articles by K. Branigan and P. Warren discussing new material, Warren's most recent piece is a summary of current trends for, ""Minoan Religion as Ritual Action" (1988).
C. Renfrews shrine of Phylakopi on the island of Melos in the Aegean
K. Kilian, have introduced new methodological approaches to the study of prehistoric religions. Minoan and Mycenaean religions are coherent autonomous and distinct systems, not primitive versions of later Greek religions.

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Helios
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From: Rhodes (an island near Cyprus)
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posted 07-07-2004 13:44     Click Here to See the Profile for Helios     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This material serves nicely as a brief overview of Carthage:
http://www.bartleby.com/65/ca/CarthageAf.html

Carthage, ancient city, N Africa

(kär´thj) (KEY) , ancient city, on the northern shore of Africa, on a peninsula in the Bay of Tunis and near modern Tunis. The Latin name, Carthago or Cartago, was derived from the Phoenician name, which meant “new city.” 1

The Rise of Carthage
Carthage was founded (traditionally by Dido) from Tyre in the 9th cent. B.C. The city-state built up trade and in the 6th and 5th cent. B.C. began to acquire dominance in the W Mediterranean. Merchants and explorers established a wide net of trade that brought great wealth to Carthage. The state was tightly controlled by an aristocracy of nobles and wealthy merchants. Although a council and a popular assembly existed, these soon lost power to oligarchical institutions, and actual power was in the hands of the judges and two elected magistrates (suffetes). There was also a small but powerful senate. 2
The greatest weakness of Carthage was the rivalry between landholding and maritime families. The maritime faction was generally in control, and about the end of the 6th cent. B.C. the Carthaginians established themselves on Sardinia, Malta, and the Balearic Islands. The navigator Hanno is supposed to have sailed down the African coast as far as Sierra Leone in the early 5th cent. The statesman Mago arrived at treaties with the Etruscans, the Romans, and some of the Greeks. 3
Sicily, which lay almost at the front door of Carthage, was never brought completely under Carthaginian control. The move against the is