Great post. Very informative. However I still feel very strongly that Hybrids may be doing more damage than good overall. I think of them more as a marketing gimmick than an enviromental solution where treehuggers are being taken for a bit of a ride.

Yes they are generally more fuel efficient but this advantage is lost when when you take into account the energy and resources required to make the additional components (perticularly the batteries).

In my book: Marketing Team 1 Treehuggers 0

Nice overview. I've always wondered, though, why the people concerned about cell phone and Wi-Fi signals never chimed in about sitting a meter away from a high voltage electric motor. Surely spending years of sitting in brutal commuter traffic next to that would total to potentially worse exposure than a Class 2 or 3 bluetooth headset... wonder if anybody is trying out testing the effects (visions of Toyota labs, with mice in tiny-sized hybrid cars ;) !!).

(A quick google search will guide a reader to see most hybrid motors range from 144 volts through to 650 volts).

Myself, I'd go for a Smart car, and try to reduce via real reduction, rather than a techno-fix. Techno-fixes aimed at giving you a workaround with no behaviour modification tend to solve the primary problem, but introduce smaller (hopefully!) secondary problems :) ! That being said, members in my family drive a Prius, and love it (2nd one is being bought this weekend!).

Ugggghh.. I hate these stupid hybrids.

Having two completely seperate drive systems is ABSURD.

A true hybrid should be a 100% electric vehicle that can also be plugged into the wall, and has a very small, efficient (rotary diesel perhaps?) internal-combustion-engine for generating electricity to charge the batteries.

This idea that somehow having a ICE and an electric motor which constantly turn off and on and switch places is inefficient and stupid.

If the ICE runs as a generator ONLY, it can run at a constant RPM, at the most efficient RPM, with very little actual load.

What happens when your prius's engine fails? Super-expensive fix.

With a true hybrid you remove the generator module and get a new one for way less money.

With a true hybrid you have the power of electric drive systems, the energy density and efficiency of actual combustion fuels, and you can go to clean fuels down the line without modifying the actual drive system.

In fact, with a true hybrid your car could GET BETTER over the years of ownership as you repace your batteries with higher capacity batteries and switch to much cleaner fuels for your generator.

With this system you have all of the qualities of a true electric vehicle with none of the range and slow-charging time drawbacks. Imagine, for in-town driving you have an override switch to disable the onboard ICE, and you drive in full-time electric vehicle mode and plug it in when you get to work to top off with even more efficient/cheaper power during the day than the ICE can provide. but when you leave town for that 6-hour road-trip to SF, you simple put a few gallons of biodiesel in the tank, and switch on the ICE for hundreds and hundreds of miles of range!

Oh no! batteries low and the fuel-tank is empty? Just top it off with more fuel and be on your way! no waiting around overnight while you plug the thing in to charge.

THATS a hybrid. The Prius is just a bastard step-child of true hybrid technologies.

"Yes they are generally more fuel efficient but this advantage is lost when when you take into account the energy and resources required to make the additional components (perticularly the batteries)."

That's simply not true.

The ecological footprint of a car is in majority composed of the fuel it burns (different studies have different numbers, but production of the car is usually around 10-20% of the footprint and the fuel is the balance).

If these batteries save lots of fuel over their lives AND are then recycled (as they are -- they even pay you to do it), then they can be a good way to reduce the footprint of the car. I'd rather have an EV, but hybrids are a good intermediate step.

chs, where is this fanciful "true" hyrbid of which you speak?

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

CHS,
Series hybrids (what you're describing) get close to the same mileage as a parallel hybrid in real world driving. They do exist at least in research.

Electric motors are heavy, so keeping the electric motor small in addition to a small battery pack that a parallel hybrid uses keeps the vehicle weight low which helps efficiency in city driving. Bigger electric motor requires a bigger motor controller which ups the cost significantly.

A small ICE engine doesn't necessarily cost less than a larger one, especially if fuel efficiency is high priority.

Bottom line is that the present hybrids are a good compromise for good mileage working with the limitations of electric motors and battery costs. The Pruis battery pack is supposed to be like $3000 to replace (if it actually went bad) Do you want to quadruple the size and cost of it to make a series hybrid?

GM is attempting a series hybrid with the Volt concept, so we'll see if it makes it to market.

I would be happy with a car designed with aerodynamics in mind to get good fuel efficiency on the highway, and reasonably small and light to get good city mileage.

Chris: Your ideal hybrid kind of exists in the form of plug-in Priuses. Most of them have the EV button enabled, which shuts off the gasoline engine. Further, for city traffic, the 34 MPH limit of the electric mode is okay, as you'll likely be sitting more than anything, and the limit is usually around 25 MPH. So, you drive to work in EV mode if you live in the city, and then charge it at work.

If you want a full electric car, you're asking for something costing around $40,000. It's nice, but the economic benefits are far off. The battery technology just isn't good enough to keep the initial investment low. The same goes for fuel cell vehicles, just so you know I'm not in their camp. I would love a true electric car or a good series hybrid to enter the market, but I don't think many people could afford it.

Plus, it's not cheap when a gas-only Camry's engine dies beyond repair, so I think both cars are in the same boat. And the Prius has shown itself to be a very reliable car. The electric components are durable, because they have few moving parts. They share the load with the gas engine, so it does half the work it would normally do, and in a smoother manner at rates that are actually good for it. The Prius splits the power between the wheels, electric motors, and the battery, so the gas engine runs slightly faster than it needs to at a rate the engineers have found to be good for efficiency and the life of the engine, so it does what you want your dream hybrid to do in the ICE department. There are Prius taxi cabs with 250,000 miles on them without any problems with the engine or the battery.

If you want to attack hybrids, go after muscle-hybrids and mild-hybrids. They're the true insult.

While we're at this, some people have made series hybrids out of RAV4-EVs by putting gas generators in very small trailers towed by the car. Luckily, the engineers didn't set up the computer so that the car cannot charge while it's turned on. It's clever, and you don't have to always carry around the heavy gas engine on regular driving days. Plus, there's no under-the-hood work. You could rent a generator from somewhere, roll it over and hitch it up, and not have to worry about dirtying up your hands or clothes or wasting a lot of time. I'd like to see you do that with an engine block.

Hybrids are a good improvement, but they are still over 20 times less efficient than a bicycle.

> Having two completely seperate drive systems is ABSURD.

Couldn't agree more. Which is why The Air Car is so amazing. A single drive system works like a hybrid - powered by both compressed air as well as traditional fuel. It also costs dramatically less than a traditional hybrid.

With the Volts long battery only range I consider it more of a BEV with a range extender genset. Such a vehicle would be electric only for much of it's driving. Perhaps it would be better if you don't take long trips very often to have a good range BEV and rent for the long trip.

CUMMINS DIESEL ALL THE WAY!!! my cummins emits less emissions than the toyota prius...

the idea that somebody would be interested in hybrids, but not know this very basic rudimentary information is disgusting. the only way to to have a true environmentally friendly society is if people possess _at least_ a basic understanding of technology. to not know the basic principles behind hybrids and still consider yourself having an environmentalist opinion is just a travesty. if you don't know how something works, are you buying anything but marketing?

Hi,

This is my first time here. I wonder if anyone might comment on some of the claims that purchasing a hybrid is not such a good idea.
For one, critics say the mileage of a hybrid is only marginally better than other top of the line economy cars. For example, a hybrid that gets 36 miles/gl, sells for 21,000 while another sells for 19,500 at 29 miles to the gallon. So it takes you 21 1/2 years of gas savings to pay back the extra money spent on the hybrid.
Two, critics claim that hybrids depreciate faster than other cars because because hybrids are constantly being improved. New buyers will want the latest versions.
Three, the IRS tax incentive is supposedly being phased out completely as of this year.
Four, (related to the first claim) you can save alot of money by just buying a manual transmission economy car which will have nearly the same mileage per gallon as a hybrid.--think Toyota Echo at 10 grand getting 38 miles to the gallon.

Thanks for your help.

The ONLY source of power in a hybrid is the piston engine. The generator "reformats" power that is normally lost, say while idling, so it can be stored in a battery for later use. From that standpoint, there is some efficiency improvement.

Regenerative braking does NOT create energy (Newton's 1st Law), but recovers some of the kinetic energy in the moving mass of the car. This is not a major savings, but it's something.

Pushing the car through air at more than 50mph requires all the power the piston engine can produce, so there is no left-over energy for the generator to reclaim. At speed on the highway, hybrids have no advantage.

World-class fuel economy of small diesel cars is close to 70mpg; much better than these hybrids. The secrets to fuel economy are not high-tech: light weight vehicle, aerodynamic shape, and small displacement engine.

Hybrids are a good improvement, but they are still over 20 times less efficient than a bicycle.
*****
Stats are great!

At anything >40 mph and a hybrid uses >fuel and pollutes >global warming gases than modern diesel. Reason? Extra weight: batteries+motors to drag around. Audi A2 1.2TDI can run biofuel but with normal diesel puts out 81g/km CO2 and 66MPG (imperial gals) at average 91MPH on Autobahn! Normal driving A2 gets 100MPG (inperial gals) . Prius weighs 1.3T, A2 0.9 T

Insight has same Cd as the Audi A2 1.2 TDI but carries HALF the people!

Sadly USA drivers ignorant of modern diesel tech. Only ONE % of USA cars run diesel. If 30% diesels then USA would use far less imported oil - in fact equivalent to all imports from Saudi Arabia! Prius is not a real world solution. Only of benefit on short trips/low speed.

Toyota ordered to drop TV commercial for hybrid vehicle
· Watchdog rules that ad exaggerated car's benefits
· CO2 figures were based on American average mileage
A television commercial for the Toyota Prius breached advertising rules by exaggerating the car's environmental benefits, the advertising industry watchdog says today

Alistar nailed it: The secrets to fuel economy are not high-tech: light weight vehicle, aerodynamic shape, and small displacement engine.

That's something that nearly everyone seems to miss. We're not going to survive by taking our current lifestyle as the constant. Our focus should be on eliminating non-respiratory greenhouse gas production and de-contaminating our water and land. That goal should be the constant, with the variables being whatever lifestyle changes we need in order to get there.

Hybrids and cars like the Aptera are answers to the wrong question.

It's interesting to see such a totally extreme view on both sides of most issues. I see a buch of comments here from folks bashing the current hybrids. "Sure it's something, but it's just not good enough!! So let's dump all over it!!".

Look people - this "being green" thing is going to have to come in stages! I hope the auto makers will roll out an all electric vehicle that draws all its power from pure solar - but it's not going to happen next year, or the following year. But if I'm in the market for a car and I'm sick of $4.50 /gas - then a Prius is a step in the right direction. I don't own one, but I rented one on a trip once - drove all over the Cali coast on 3 gallons of gas. I was blown away and vowed to buy one for my next auto purchase.

It made an impression on me - it changed my thinking. It was peppy, had a certain cool factor, and I'd like to see one more sale added to the "fuel aware consumer" column.

It's not anymore fuel efficient at speed on the highway, but for the millions of drivers who just sit at idle in traffic, dumping on the gas to reach 30 mph then transferring all that energy into heat and brake wear to stop again - then a hybrid makes HUGE sense. No gas burned at idle, most of the braking as reclaimed energy - I'm telling you, I tried it, and it works - and I was absoultely blown away at how much in town driving I did on a very small amount of gas.

Please - as people start to make steps in the right direction, let's not hammer them for taking a step. At *least* it's a step.

It appears that the Aptera (as reported in an article on MSN by Jacob Gordon) is an interesting car, and it’s encouraging that people are building very small, light cars for better fuel economy. A few years ago when I lived 45 miles from work, I bought an old, used KZ650 that would cover that distance on one gallon of fuel, and enjoyed not having to feed my Chevy van every day. OTOH, about the same time, I had a Datsun 210 that would get about 39 mpg quite consistently - occasionally 38 or 40 but mostly about 39 - with an ordinary gasoline engine, with room for several good-sized adults and a trunk full of junk. I’m a little surprised that the best they could do with the Aptera was 1500 pounds, with a design similar to the Formula 1 cars. I wonder if anyone told them that the F1's are restricted to a minimum weight - maybe about 1000 pounds, and certainly more than 800, even with only room for one human. At least, that was true the last I knew, many years ago, on the basis that people would build them weighing 800 pounds or less if that were allowed, and I guess with the technology of the day, the people making the rules were concerned about safety. Now we have carbon fiber, and Kevlar, and more or less readily available titanium, (we even use titanium for the frames of eyeglasses, as with those I am wearing now, and they seem to be quite durable), so maybe the rules could be relaxed a little; I don’t know whether they have been.

OTOH, they (and you) should not be claiming 300 MPG on the basis that you described. If you started at the top of a hill, you could coast with the engine turned off and your fuel mileage would approach infinity, being some number divided by zero. Charging the battery before the test is essentially the same as coasting downhill, because in either case the car is running on stored energy, physical or chemical. You can learn a lot about fuel economy be watching the actual fuel economy display, on cars so equipped; when going down a steep hill without shifting into neutral, the indicator will display its maximum value, whatever that happens to be - much higher than we can obtain on level ground with the engine actually propelling the car.

And, one of my sons has owned a number of VW diesels that get 50 MPG or better in normal driving, without electric motors and storage. If people were serious about fuel economy, the engines in hybrid cars would be diesels; I’m not a great expert on engines, but I think the difference is mostly the compression ratio; and unless we can find a way to run a gasoline engine at the very high compression ratio which is necessarily used with diesels (which may indeed be possible with fuel injection, but has not, to my knowledge, been done so far) the difference is inherent in the design and not subject to improvement by the usual tinkering with the geometry of the engine parts, spark voltage, etc. OTOH, probably turbine engines would be even better, and the hybrid design would more or less eliminate one of the major problems with turbine engines for cars - how to transmit the energy from a turbine running many thousand RPM to the wheels that run much slower. As with any serial hybrid, the prime mover could run at a constant speed, for its best efficiency, since it is not mechanically connected to the wheels - and even if the generator could not run at the full speed of the turbine (which it probably could), it certainly would not require as much gear reduction as in cars that do have the turbine driving the wheels.

I hope that helps. As you have probably noticed, there is an enormous quantity of BS in the news, especially when the subject is something with a lot of technical difficulty that the editors don’t understand. It is a cultural truism that all the politicians lie to us, and I have certainly caught some of them doing that; if we could at least depend on our news media to present the facts to us, then we would have a chance. I sympathize with the difficulty of finding out what the facts are, and I’m sure that accounts for some - but not all - of the discrepancy between the truth and what we see in the news.

Dick Hatzenbuhler
Deering, NH

As I look at the comments I have a hard time understanding the bitterness and animosity that is felt towards Hybrids. Yes, in an ideal world you all have somewhat valid points in regard to the progress made with hybrids. Given our political structure and capitalistic business nature I think the progress that has been made is great. The major car manufacturers are not going to do something on a large scale that would risk throwing away millions just to make us treehuggers happy. We have to beat them at their own game- make it financially worth it, which I think we are doing. Just look at how many different hybrid cars are being sold for the 2008 car year.

A bigger question that has to be asked (which nothing can be done about it now) is why did it take so long to get the ball rolling with hybrid development. The first hybrid car was built in 1901 by Ferdinand Porsche.

As I look at the comments I have a hard time understanding the bitterness and animosity that is felt towards Hybrids. Yes, in an ideal world you all have somewhat valid points in regard to the progress made with hybrids. Given our political structure and capitalistic business nature I think the progress that has been made is great. The major car manufacturers are not going to do something on a large scale that would risk throwing away millions just to make us treehuggers happy. We have to beat them at their own game- make it financially worth it, which I think we are doing. Just look at how many different hybrid cars are being sold for the 2008 car year.

A bigger question that has to be asked (which nothing can be done about it now) is why did it take so long to get the ball rolling with hybrid development. The first hybrid car was built in 1901 by Ferdinand Porsche.

I just wanted to add that, hybrids REDUCE the dependency on foreign oil, not ELIMINATE. Doesn't this mean that at some point in time something other than hybrids will need to be in full swing? (Rhetorical Question).

I was just wondering what happens if the car has mechanical problems? Are there enough people who know how to fix them? Or will it be expensive?

I think hybrids are a great idea, but how about they make one that is actually realistic for a family. A family that has kids in car seats. Not a Toyota Prius that can only fit 2 adults in the front and 2 middle-aged kids in the back.
Or what about the Toyota IQ? If that got into a wreck, I would hate to see the end result. The only way that car would come out ok in a wreck and the driver/passengers didn't die is if it crashed into a bike.
Japan has made a Toyota minivan that seats seven. That is the definition of a practical hybrid. Enough room for all the kids, and room for groceries, soccer gear, bookbags etc.
Like I have said in the past, people won't make the change to go green if it is such a hassle. A great example of this: I just spent 90 dollars on replacing all my bulbs with CFL's. No one ever mentioned that the only place I can dispose of them is over a 45 minute drive away! Being green is a grea idea, but organizations need to actually think things completely through. Otherwise peolpe will just throw CFL's in the trash instead of doing what's right.

As an Insight-owner, I can say with certainty it is 100% a positive thing. The nimh batteries are hardly a problem. If they were, why isn't everyone up in arms about the digital camera revolution? Humankind has never used more batteries than right now.

And you'd have to be completely ignorant not to realize they are recyclable. Recycling facilites exist everywhere. It's the end user who causes problems by ignoring the law and throwing the batteries away.

Battery weight isn't a problem either. The Insight only weighs 1800 lbs due to abundant useage of aluminum, magnesium and plastic.

Yes, diesels get fabulous mileage, but they pollute more than gasoline. Not only does the Insight get better mileage than a Smartcar, it is the cleanest burning as well - only 80 grams of CO2/km versus 90 for the Smartcar. Not to mention the proven harmful carcinogenic nature of diesel. Yes, I realize gasoline is no angel either, but until we can strap a Mr. Fusion to the back of our DeLorean, options are limited.

VW announced it's releasing a hybrid diesel Golf this year in Europe, but even still, its 69.9 mpg and 89 grams of C02 cannot reach the same numbers as the Insight. (Then again it has other benefits - like being able to carry 4 people.)

I am not saying hybrids are the answer. But hybrids are the best-available option right now. If people really care that much about the environment, why are they driving around in their pure gasoline car, creating more pollution, using more foreign oil, just waiting for something better to come along? Hybrids are the best transition to the next phase - but who knows how long it'll be before then?

It is not a perfect world, so I'm confused as to why so many angry people here think the perfect transportation option should exist right now.

Good afternoon,

I'm just writing to ask the manufacturers of all brands of cars why do they all associate hybrid, almost fre polluting cars with unbelievably bad design?? Do hybrid cars really have to be ugly?
Please allow all people with some taste and aesthetic knowledge buy a hybrid - this goes directly to Toyota and Honda.
Lexus - congratulations! If only your cars were cheaper.... (oh... yeah.... Lexus is the same as toyota so i'm thinking... why don´t you lend some designers??)

But still hybrid is always a good idea - even when it's an ugly one! Keep it up!

I think electric cars are great for us. But there are some negatives though. For instance, they should be alot cheaper than they already are, in most cases. And half the cars they have out now are so ugly (just kidding) that most people who have a good taste in cars and their mileage might not want to buy them. Consumers are the devil, but they are pretty smart on what they are doing.

CHS

"true hybrid cars are 100% electric"

This is off topic and redundant, but it's bugging me.

Definition of the word hybrid:

A. Something of mixed origin or composition

If the vehicle was 100% electric, it wouldnt be a hybrid. It's an electric car.

And my response (to this and other comments):

Though the science may seem odd to you, the fact is that they are efficient. As time goes on, they are becoming more and more efficient. Battery life is roughly averaged at 150k miles. They are between 4-5000 dollars to replace, which is expensive, however, it does NOT NEARLY come close to the money you save in gas prices and maintenance fees on the gasoline engine component, as the wear and tear on the engine is drastically reduced. Look at it this way, if the vehicle you buy costs 18k, add 5k to it. now you own a vehicle that will last 300,000 miles for $23,000. im sorry but i just dont see much of a problem there.

Perhaps they are more expensive to dispose of, but environmentally they are not hazardous if done so properly. Economically, well, if it isnt the cost of disposing batteries that hurts i guarantee you it will be any number of other things. Unfortunately our economy is at the mercy of politicians, not hybrid vehicles.

I agree that there are many "look, me too!" hybrids that arent really much more fuel efficient than gasoline engines, and only marginally safer for the atmosphere, but do your research before you spend a chunk of your hard earned money on a vehicle. if you are uneducated in your decision you have no one to blame but yourself.

if you take the fuel motor out of a hybrid and replace it with an electric motor , add electronic upgrades, it becomes regenerative. Add solar panels and wheel hub generators then you have a guaranteed continuous power source. This applies to electric vehicles.Add generator sources along with solar for complete electricity replenishment. This information is free to all.

I decided to get a hybrid car after all the gas shortages from Hurricane Rita. I've had my Toyota Prius for over two years, and I'm loving it.

I decided to get a hybrid after the gas shortages from Hurricane Rita. I've had my Toyota Prius for two years now, and I'm loving it.

I think a car fuiled by fulled by soler power would be smarter.just 100% SOLER POWER!!!! Gathering soler energy does not harm nature, and at the same time is still power. cool hu?

Try it out,
A Nature Lover :)

How about Soler power. Use 100% Soler power to power cars.(it's power that doesn't hirt nature)
Cool hu?

Try it out,
a nature lover

PS: Your welcome!

Diesel may sound like part of the answer, but you have to remember that it takes about 25-30% more oil to make a gallon of diesel as it does a gallon of gasoline. Read this if you want more of an explanation.
http://www.grinningplanet.com/2005/04-12/diesel-vs-gasoline-article.htm

Hybrids are really excellent, even though many improvements are just beginning to appear, like plug-ins, clean diesel hybrids, series hybrids, and total EVs. Since having mine (I have a first model year Prius) I figure that I've used roughly 8,000 gallons less fuel than my old, 22 MPG car would have used. At today's price of almost $3.80/gal, that pretty much paid for the entire car - including car loan interest - not just the "hybrid premium".

As for maintenance, it's been a dream. I shake my head when folks who don't own one tell me how much they'll cost to maintain. My non-warranty out-of-pocket expenses for 7 years and 216,000 miles consist mostly of a set of rear brake pads, several sets of tires, brake lights, and windshield wipers. The engine, drivetrain, suspension, exhaust, paint (except for a fender-bender) are all original.

As for practical, for trips of 4 or 5 hours (enough for me to get to the coast) it carries enough luggage for 4 or 5 people for a week, 3 kayaks, and 4 bikes. And the cat. After owning one, most folks I've spoken with would not consider going back to a "conventional" vehicle. I'm looking forward to another 100K miles on this car, and if nothing more advanced shows up by then, I'll be getting a "next generation" Prius. It's a no-brainer.

Prius follows the1930's groupthink designs from Detroit. It has a wide steel body and frame with a fuel burning heavy multi-cylinder poured, cast, block and pistons going up and down wasting huge power! We need desert solar electric plants feeding electricity to the existing grid. Add battery cars built with short, half lane wide, ultra light, aerodynamic, carbon fiber bodies with passengers seated behind drivers. Put batteries in a universally interchangeable standard sized box below the passengers. We need battery charging stations where we can exchange charged batteries for spent ones at will. We need tow trucks that on a cell phone call will come by GPS and rescue us with a charged battery if we miscalculate distances. Short, narrow width body eliminates grid lock, traffic jams and parking problems by doubling existing road and parking space. Batteries eliminate expensive carcinogenic fuels. Light small body extends range and two passenger is statistically more correct for commuters. The oncoming depression, driven by increasingly high oil prices will drive this lifestyle change to fruition or America will sink into despair driving fewer and fewer huge gas engined behemoths into the ruin of the greatest country ever.

If you have to buy a car TODAY, and you drive your cars into the ground, a PRIUS is the only thing out there.

I have a 2004 Prius - love it. LOVE IT. Now my husband LOVES IT because he consistently gets 54 to 55 MPGs on EACH tank of gas. When I drove it I only got 53 MPG max - oh well.

When we replace our 14 year old minivan, we will most definitely get a Prius unless something else comes along that is better.

Those of you who put down Priuses and their drivers out of hand are either tinkerers who can rig their own cars to get even better mileage and less emissions than a Prius (kudos to you!) or they are talking out of their @$$&$ and we simply smile knowingly and get a good laugh.

My boyfriend is a firefighter and he says he would never get a hybrid because if you get in a bad accident, you could not be cut out of your car. Apparently there is not any consistency between models and manufacturers for where in the frame the electrical wires run. Since rescue workers don't know in an emergency situation without a design for the car, they cannot risk electrocution by cutting anywhere in the frame. Has anyone heard anything about this, and if not, why is this not an issue for concern in hybrid cars?

Hybrid's are a good improvement, but they are still over 20times less efficient than a bicycle.

i never think the hybrid is a step forward but there are so many other better alternatives and it's time to put those on the market. we should look for a care that puts out no pollution instead of one that puts out less.

i love the idea of charging the car's batteries by plugging it into the wall. do people understand how the power in there house is generated? coal,oil, ext....

as for hydrogen,
economically the most important processes involve removal of hydrogen from hydrocarbons. so after they remove it they are left with hydrogen and carbon (the green house guy) it does not disappear to La-La land. they just release it into the atmosphere. get it? instead of the car putting out carbon they just did it somewhere else. u can do it with water but it takes more energy to make hydrogen then it can produce, refer to physics for that.

and yes i understand u could do all this with wind and solar..... in 50+ years. wight as well think the cars are running on hope.

if we all drive cars that get 100mpg yes demand will go down. the price of fuel wont. in fact it will go up IMO. the oil companies will raise prices to keep and increase profit.

striker
consultant for Halliburton