The Refiner's Fire vs. "Acharya S"

"Acharya S" is a "pantheist" - that is, her gods/goddesses are anything BUT the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and His salvation provided through Messiah Yeshua HaMashiach/Jesus Christ. A self-proclaimed "expert" and "skeptic" (whose real name is "D. Murdock") has written several books that supposedly disprove Christ, Christianity, and other religions. She considers herself to be a "scholar and visionary" whose mission in life is to debunk Yeshua in any way possible. Judging from the many lies and ridiculous allegations about Yeshua that this woman has espoused, believers have nothing to fear! The Bible was "God-breathed" - while Acharya's books are nothing more than personal opinions spawned from just another limited, human mindset.


NOTE FROM THE RABBIS @ THE REFINER'S FIRE: Below is an article written by one of the The Refiner's Fire's teachers, Carmen, who has several times challenged "Acharya S". Judge for yourself what type of person this "Acharya" is....


Chatrooms such as Acharya's The Christ Conspiracy are anti-Yeshua hornet nets - full of angry, buzzing, hissing, spitting, gossiping people who tear others apart with sadistic glee. If you throw them the smallest bone to show that you in any way disagree with them, they will be all over you like white on rice, cussing and snarling and knocking themselves out to silence you!

This is what recently happened after someone made me aware that "Acharya S" had posted the link to an article on my website, The Refiner's Fire, which challenged her anti-Jesus rhetoric written in July of 2004. She preceded my link with the comment in her chatroom, "Hoo boy. Another well-wisher with lovely things to say".

I immediately realized that, despite the fact that I had made her aware of my, by now "old" challenge to her, Acharya, who apparently loves controversy and the focus of the entire world on herself - as can clearly be seen on her website, Truth Be Known - apparently wanted everyone to think that people are constantly thinking about, and attacking her, or trying to "hurt her feelings" in some way. And so I tried to leave a message in her chatroom to that effect - which she refused to post.

Long story short, I registered in the chatroom, and when the hate mail started coming in from some of her supporters, I began responding, which FINALLY got her attention - and, just as I had suspected, spurred her onto a warpath! In her rage, in order to show the world that she thinks I (along with all other believers in Christ!) am a mean, hateful, vindictive, "anti-human" person, she immediately copied my 2004 article and "mirrored" it on her own site under the heading, Challenging "Carmen" and her anti-Human Ravings.

(What makes this self-proclaimed "expert" on myths think I'm "anti-human" is anybody's guess! One of the phrases that consistently popped up in our exchange was that I was attacking a "living, breathing human being". It's excruciatingly clear that Acharya seems to believe it's okay for HER to make fun of believers, and espouse HER views - but, the moment anyone challenges her, they are mean-spirited "anti-humans"....)

Anyway, in short, this challenge to "Acharya S" is about exposing her lies about Yeshua and His followers. The following is only a sampling of the entire exchange. If you are interested in viewing all the posts, please check out Christ Conspiracy.

Acharya's Posts:

From: "Acharya S"
Date: Thu Dec 29, 2005 1:43 pm
Subject: Carmen and her anti-Human Ravings

Please keep in mind that Carmen epitomizes exactly what is wrong with religious fanaticism: To wit, it creates serious dementia that causes people to hate others and spew at them with the greatest amount of vituperation possible. They will not stop, as she has vowed, at destroying others. Having appointed themselves the "avengers" of God, they will resort not only to extreme hatred and ridicule, but as we have seen abundantly, endless violence. Spewing hatred and the desire to watch others roast in hell is not only demented but also evil--and very violent, as well as sadistic.

I really don't know what is the answer to this derangement that causes people to hate humanity, but critiquing the ideology that feeds such dementia is one step.

http://loonies.50megs.com/carmen.html

Much to the relief of the listers, Carmen will henceforth be banned. No doubt, she will find time for her more important endeavors to continue to spew her "loving" Christian trash against me.

She has a serious problem with my looks, it seems, which is indicative of a pathology evidently related to her being hurt over her own appearance. I feel sorry for such people, but I can assure you that I am not the cause of other's cruelty based on people's looks. In fact, when I was a child, I always stood up for the people being picked


Carmen's Comments:

"Much to the relief of the listers, Carmen will henceforth be banned". Hmmm. Funny that I was banned before I ever got to post anything! This act alone shows that Acharya has a phobia about opposition of any kind. As a matter of fact - check out the thread for yourselves - ANYONE who dares to oppose her is immediately slam-dunked by angry, cursing tirades....Case in point, read how she attacked someone named Josip who came to my defense against her "Carmen is mentally ill" allegations.

I don't know whether to feel flattered, or to feel sorry for this poor lost creature who apparently hated her given name so much that she felt she had to change it to something that, in the English language, conjures up visions of spiders, scorpions, mites, and ticks.

Like anyone else who doesn't have a clear understanding of Yeshua, Acharya consistently makes wild, unsubstantiated allegations about Him and anyone who believes in Him. For instance, the fact that I happen to believe in Christ does NOT make me a "religious fanatic". I am merely someone who is intimately familiar with my Savior and am not ashamed to admit it - and, I'm someone who will go up against ANYONE who tries to debunk my belief. I have a RIGHT to defend myself and my God! Acharya S has written books and made herself visible by whatever means possible in order to espouse her UNINFORMED opinions against MY God, and I won't stand for it! Apparently, she can't handle that....

I've read all about Arachya's supposed "credentials" and nowhere does it say that she's in any way qualified to make psychiatric judgments. Therefore, I challenge her to provide scientific proof that believing in Christ "creates serious dementia that causes people to hate others and spew at them with the greatest amount of vituperation possible". I challenge her to read her OWN WRITINGS which serve as proof that one doesn't have to be a believer at all to fit that description!

"Having appointed themselves the "avengers" of God, they will resort not only to extreme hatred and ridicule, but as we have seen abundantly, endless violence. Spewing hatred and the desire to watch others roast in hell is not only demented but also evil--and very violent, as well as sadistic."

I am guessing that Arachya is referring to my warning that those who refuse to believe will end up in hell, even though I never once said I had a "desire to watch" this happen....My entire website is dedicated to leading people to the Lord, not to wish them in hell!

Arachya flatters herself by thinking I have a "serious problem" with her looks. The references I made to her "looks" were in the context of the "sexy" photos she flaunted on her site - which she has since removed (photos in which she even admits were taken at least 15 or 20 years ago, and which included sexual innuendo and self-promoting verbiage: Yes, this really is the vessel occupied by the consciousness that wrote these pages!....These pictures are included because when people read my essays, they think I'm an old male scholar!)

I admit, when I first saw those photos, I was stunned, because it has always upset me to see women using their bodies to get what they want out of life - and that has nothing, whatsoever, to do with my "religious convictions"! There is a word for that kind of behavior....Unfortunately, in today's godless, "anything goes" society, it's considered "cool" to exhibit any and all forms of decadence. The Bible tells us this would be one of the end times signs. (Read the Books of Daniel, and Revelation.)

The word "narcissist" also came to mind as I began to wonder why ANYONE would post OLD photos of themselves on the 'net while carefully omitting any RECENT photos (except for only a "head-shot" of her "recent" on-line video interview - "recent" meaning anytime within the last ten years or so). But, it didn't take long to figure out posting photos of herself in her younger days was nothing but a ruse to entice her drooling male followers into sending money!

The middle of her "photos" page contains these sentences: Okay, these photos are from the '90s, so the vessel's a little more, shall we say, like fine wine. I am trying to keep my youthful appeal so that I can travel and tour in person, giving talks and seminars around the world. (Hint, hint - funding to my non-profit organization, the CRST or Institute for Historical Accuracy, would seriously expedite such endeavors.)

Another example of her narcissistic personality, is the fact that she has the following quote posted all over her site, and on every e-mail and post she sends: "Acharya S is the ranking religious philosopher of our era." - John Kaminski (author and "great modern freedom fighter").

"Ranking religious philosopher"???? That could only come from the mind of someone who spent too much time gawking at Acharya's photos, because her "philosophies" about Yeshua and the Bible are just that - mere philosophies based on her complete LACK of understanding when it comes to the things of God....

2 Timothy 3: 1-2 - But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy....

As far as my being "hurt over my own appearance" - well, that's pure conjecture on her part, especially since she has never seen a photo of me, and can't positively back up her far-reaching conclusion. It's just another one of her "philosophies"....


Acharya's Posts:

From: "Acharya S"
Date: Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:15 pm
Subject: Carmen and her anti-Human Ravings

Apparently Carmen is a "Messianic Jew" who goes about attackig people all over the net with her venomous bile....It is amazing to me that a Jewish person--a member of a despised and persecuted minority--would behave in this manner. I had mistakenly believed that she was just a typical fundie. Someone needs to set up a "refiner's fire watch," as has been done with so many other groups.


Carmen's Comments:

Yes, I am a "Messianic Jew" and proud of it! And if someone attacks me in any way, I don't roll over and play dead. I also don't "go about attacking people all over the 'net". I take on anyone who is against Yeshua or is Biblically off the mark. No "venomous bile" on my website, whatsoever. Just plain Truth.

"...Member of a despised and persecuted minority". Gee, Arachya - who's using "venomous bile" now? I think the problem she has with my being Jewish (a people she has openly spoken against) is that I am actually daring to take her on - something she is apparently quite unaccustomed to as most "believers" will "turn the other cheek".

These are the Bible-prophesied "end times". Believers MUST get the Word out so that people like Arachya won't be able to feign ignorance when they stand before our Maker on Judgment Day.


Acharya's Posts:

From: "Acharya S"
Date: Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:22 pm
Subject: Carmen and her anti-Human Ravings: Carmen Zone II

Here's the second page at that now defunct Rev. Jeremiah website. The problem with self-anointed representatives of God is that they not only believe they are the only people with the truth but that they usually hate everyone who doesn't agree with them. It is beyond evil to wish see others roast in hell.

"I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the merciful Lord holds you by the heel and dips your face into the vat of refining hellfire!!!!!! I can't wait to see the skin peeling off your body and hear your tortured shrieks!!!!!"

No good God would be pleased with such "representatives." It is quite appalling that others will agree with them and thus encourage them in their sadistic pathology.


Carmen's Comments:

The above absolutely had me in stitches! I couldn't believe that someone would go so far as to comb the web in order to find "dirt" on me - How hilarious that she managed to find my e-mail conversations with "Reverend Jeremiah", a dyed-in-the-wool, Jew-and-Jesus-hating atheist! But then, birds of a feather flock together.....

Even funnier was that she concocted the supposed quote I made! I challenge Arachya or anyone else to find this quote for me that was actually ATTRIBUTED to me (and if it was, it was a lie and I will sue that person!), because it certainly isn't in the cached conversations with "Reverend Jeremiah"....


Acharya's Posts:

Date: Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:06 pm Subject: Carmen's real problem

I don't want to be cruel, but if you examine that page with Carmen's rantings against "Rev. Jeremiah," there's a very awful story that explains her sad and angry fixation on my appearance. She's a badly abused child, which as our resident psychologist Zoe can explain, is the cause of much religious fanaticism. It is surprising, however, that such horrible experiences do not make people question the existence of a "good" God in the first place. I have a few neighbors who have endured one nightmare after another for decades. After their initial anger with God, they became Christian fundies, believing that their lack of ardent faith (they were raised Christian) caused Jesus to become vindictive and to punish them. (So much for the "loving" and "compassionate" Lord of lords.) They are in effect TERRIFIED of not believing in Jesus, because they are afraid he will bring back the brutality they endured for so long. Nice guy, eh?

I'm very sorry Carmen had to suffer in this way. My wish would be that she not cause pain to other children by viciously attacking their parents, as well as insisting on spreading an ideology that to me very much constitutes child abuse.


Carmen's Comments:

Well, isn't nice to know Arachya has a heart? She's sorry I had to suffer!

It's amazing that Arachya would jump to conclusions and decide that abusive pasts cause people to become "Christian fundies", simply because she had a "few neighbors" who had endured "nightmares". If her "resident psychologist Zoe" could explain and back up these silly claims, then I would strongly question that person's credentials!

How about some real scientific statistics, Acharya? Just because you THINK something, doesn't make it so!

I also would like some statistics and/or scientific proof that shows I'm "causing pain" to anyone by "viciously attacking their parents" with my "ideology" concerning the existence of Christ. That statement certainly ranks among the most assinine I've ever seen. Very juvenile....

At the risk of bursting Acharya's preconceived bubble-notion about my poor mental state, perhaps this would be a good time to let her and her cling-ons know that God has completely healed me from my past hurts. He has even used my past experiences to help others heal: Ever since I first "met" Yeshua back in January 1995, I have been on a mission to help other victims of sexual abuse. For five years I belonged to a prison ministry which allowed me to minister to female inmates who had been sexually abused; I have also been a camp counselor for abused and neglected children between the ages of 7 and 11; and I have helped facilitate several church seminars designed to heal past hurts. Sorry, Acharya - I guess I'm not quite as mentally disabled as you're trying to make me out to be! And, although I do not have actual psychiatric credentials, my Bachelor's Degree includes two years of college credits in psychology, while my Business College diploma is in the medical field. Plus, as a graduate of the United States Army Sergeants Major Academy and former Army sergeant major, I have plenty of counseling experience under my belt! Oh yes - not that it matters - but like the great and glorious self-proclaimed expert-in-everything Acharya, I too, speak several languages, have visited plenty of foreign countries, and I've written five novels and published a couple of children's books....


Acharya's Posts:

From: "Acharya S"
Date: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:04 pm
Subject: Re: Carmen and "Refiners Fire"

Well, this ill woman has indeed spent her day spewing forth more hatred towards me. As we've been discussing, she is incapable of separating a person from an ideology. She exemplies exactly what is wrong with religious belief, which bears repeating: Religious fanaticism teaches that humans are "bad" and "evil" and that we should all be punished, beaten, flogged, etc. Only God is good--despite the fact that he created us "evil."

The belief in God and Satan, as two separate but equally powerful (Satan actually seems MORE powerful, according to this psychosis), creates schizophrenia, and I'm willing to bet that's what we're dealing with here. There is a reek of bipolar--I'm unfortunately familiar with the condition. High functioning, accomplished, but singularly fixated on brutality. Carmen's love of the story of the Lord being beaten to a pulp is a sign. Her desire to spew venom towards me and others who don't subscribe to this sadistic view of the cosmos is another sign. With her past experiences, she evidently relates to Christ's torture and "passion." She probably survived the experience by thinking God had put her through it for a similar reason--to "save the world" through her "Refiner's Fire." It's a sadly delusional state. I'm sorry she's had to suffer this way and continues to wallow in it. As I say, my wish is that she gets some help and stops persecuting real, living, breathing and feeling human beings who had nothing to do with her torment.

I really don't know what else to do. She's clearly deranged and possibly dangerous. (She apparently has an extensive military background.)


Carmen's Comments:

I'm just stunned at the lengths to which Acharya will go in order to make me look as though I have mental problems! Does she have actual proof that I am "ill"? No. She knows absolutely NOTHING about me, except that I have a website for God and that I've dared to challenge her rantings against MY belief in Yeshua. What makes her think I "spent my day spewing forth more hatred" towards her? First of all, she has no clue HOW I spend my days; and secondly, I'm not "spewing forth hatred" - I'm merely responding to her "stuff"! If she, as a public personality, can't handle criticism, then perhaps she should stop writing lies about God and the Bible!

And as for being "incapable of separating a person from an ideology", perhaps someone needs to remind her that she's written several books against Yeshua and the Bible, and her chatroom is full of anti-"Jesus" rantings. If I cannot respond to Arachya who is spouting off these things, then WHO should I address? She doesn't make any sense....She thinks this is all about her when, in fact, it's about the things she publicly espouses about God, the Bible, and Christianity in general.

She exemplies [sic] exactly what is wrong with religious belief, which bears repeating: Religious fanaticism teaches that humans are "bad" and "evil" and that we should all be punished, beaten, flogged, etc. Only God is good--despite the fact that he created us "evil."

That comment shows that Acharya has no clue about God!

Number One: God did not "create evil". God responds to our deliberate sinning; disciplining and judging His creation whenever needed. If your parents tell you, you are to stay out of the street, then STAY out of the street, or you'll get killed! God gave us GOOD rules for living; we have NO RIGHT to disobey. Disobeying has put the world in the predicament it is in, with everyone doing "their own thing". These days, what used to be called "good" is now considered "bad" because a bunch of thugs pushed us into believing THEIR way was "cool" and "the old way" was no longer valid. (Please see Did God Create Evil? and Reader Question about Evil.)

Number Two: Her comment about religious fanticism teaching that humans are "bad" and "evil", blah, blah...is totally taken out of context. Acharya needs to read the Book of Genesis to find out exactly WHY humans are born into sin. The bottom line is, Adam and Eve disobeyed God which resulted in the very first sin - and, as a result, they were kicked out of God's Presence. The fact that God, throughout the millenia, gave man reprieve after reprieve, shows His awesome love for us. He showed us how to repent and atone for our sins, but we kept screwing it up. And today, His ultimate Sin Sacrifice, Yeshua/Jesus - who offers us the easiest possible way out from under this burden of sin - is being rejected by most people because they are totally ignorant about Him. They make fun of Him and His followers. Instead, we have people like Acharya who have made themselves into a god of sorts, and amazingly, nobody questions HER philosphies! They just blindly follow along because she has some "ear-tickling" ideas that sound really "cool" to those who don't like discipline.

As for "a reek of bipolar" I challenge Acharya to present me with her psychiatric credentials. She has YET to provide proof about the fact that I am supposedly "fixated on brutality"! If I were fixated on brutality, I'd become of her followers in order to ensure that I could spend eternity burning in hell!

Carmen's love of the story of the Lord being beaten to a pulp is a sign. That entire paragraph above is pure speculation and outright stupidity. Where is this "resident psychiatrist Zoe", when you need her? I'd like to ask Zoe what she thinks of someone like Acharya who can sit there on her laurels and make up stories about people she's never met and doesn't know - all because they wish to challenge her published beliefs!

(She apparently has an extensive military background.) Ooohhhh - that DOES add to my psychosis, doesn't it? My career as an Army journalist clearly made me a danger to society....


Latest update:

Acharya's latest attempt to discredit me was posted on Jan. 21, 2006, where she explained to her readers (in reference to this particular article/my challenge to her):

Here we go again! As I was reading this slop, an 8-year-old child came up behind me and started reading this site. Without any prompting, he said, "When I grow up, I'm going to be the exact opposite of this person."

Some minutes later, he said, "She's possessed."

I had to laugh, even though it's very sad.

I sent Acharya the following reply - which, of course, was ignored, as she never bothered to post it, or respond to my e-mail:

Acharya:

This is in response to your comments (which, I'm sure won't be posted on your precious site):

What's sad is that you want the world to believe that an 8-year-old child's attention span would actually allow him to read my site and then make a comment like that.

What's sad is that you would put an 8 year old child in the crossfire between yourself and the rest of the world.

What's sad is that YOU are allowing your hatred against the people of God to rub off on an innocent child. Your books and your writings are no better than Hitler's "Mein Kampf". Same trash, same hate speech, same ignorant personal opinions.

Did you also allow that poor child to read the crap you wrote, called "Christ Conspiracy" so that he could have a chance to decide which one of us he REALLY wants to side with?

All you've done by making that ridiculous comment about an 8 year old's supposed perceptions is show the world how much influence YOU have on the children you meet. If he truly DID make that comment, then it's ONLY because the "great and wonderful" Acharya S is instilling false teachings and hatred in him. Shame on you! You are a living example of the Bible's comments that the sins of the father would be passed down to the next generation! Hatred only instills hatred. The KKK and the "White Supremacists" and their ilk do it all the time....

I wouldn't have been forced to write any articles challenging the likes of you, if you didn't constantly speak out against Yeshua (Jesus) and those of us who believe in Him. And when we try to defend ourselves, you sit there and whine and complain about how mean we are and how we've hurt you, "a living, breathing human being". Well, you reap what you sow, lady. As long as you continue to trash MY belief, I will continue to speak out against YOU. Deal with it!

And, by the way, you have indeed called me "mentally ill" and have made various other comments about my supposed mental health - which you are ABSOLUTELY NOT qualified to do. Examples:

It's a sadly delusional state.

She's clearly deranged and possibly dangerous. (She apparently has an extensive military background.)

There is a reek of bipolar--I'm unfortunately familiar with the condition. High functioning, accomplished, but singularly fixated on brutality. Carmen's love of the story of the Lord being beaten to a pulp is a sign. Her desire to spew venom towards me and others who don't subscribe to this sadistic view of the cosmos is another sign.

Just because I am daring to challenge your crappy opinions does not make me "mentally ill". You need to look in the mirror, sweetheart. I think it's there that you will find the TRUE definition of that term.

Here are just a few of the links where you wrote about my supposed "mental illness" along with various "diagnoses" according to Acharya:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christ_Conspiracy/message/6165, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christ_Conspiracy/message/6162 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christ_Conspiracy/message/6143 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christ_Conspiracy/message/6141 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Christ_Conspiracy/message/6138


As you can clearly see from the comments above, the Bible was right about our human natures being like "filthy rags" (Isaiah 64:6). Acharya is the perfect example of anyone who lives a self-centered, God-less life. In her mind, it's okay for HER to slander and libel believers and to write books against our Savior; but woe unto those who dare to fight back! Anyone who dares to take on the "great" Acharya is marked as being "anti-Human"....(As a matter of fact, in perusing the 'net, one can find all kinds of interesting tidbits about how Acharya feels "attacked" - to the point of paranoia - by all sorts of people who try to defend THEIR beliefs from HER published comments. For instance, she has even had a major altercation with Wikipedia, where one of the administrators supposedly "had it in" for her!)

We are told in Romans 1 that anyone with a seared or evil conscience who refuses God, after a certain period of time, would be "turned over to a reprobate mind". That means the mind cannot be renewed, because the person has for so long chosen self-ways (which really are Satan's ways) over God's that it is not possible for them to change. This should be a warning for all who persist on sinning against God - including Acharya S.

The bottom line is, she and her goo-goo eyed followers will be among those that will not be taking "the narrow gate that leads to life" (Matthew 7:13). The Bible tells us that MOST people are headed for hell because they ignored God's Word while on earth.

The Refiner's Fire challenges Acharya to explain this, since she's such an "expert" on the Bible: More than 300 Bible prophecies have already come true, and are unfolding before our very eyes right now (especially in the Middle East). If the Bible is a myth, explain away the FACT that these prophecies all happened! And guess what, when Yeshua returns, He will make the LAST FEW come true, as well.

Stay tuned to GOD'S TRUTH, Acharya. Yeshua's return is on the horizon. Whether you "believe" or not....

Jeremiah 5:3, 12, 30-31: "But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the Lord arose against his people, till there was no remedy."

II Chronicles 36: 16 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

The Refiner's Fire invites our readers to read J.P. Holding's analysis of Acharya's latest book, The Christ Conspiracy. Also please see Mike Licona's A Refutation of Acharya S's book, The Christ Conspiracy, and "An answer to your rebuttal titled, "A Rebuttal to Mike Licona's ‘Refutation of The Christ Conspiracy’".



NOTE: The Bible tells us in various ways not to waste our time arguing with unbelievers. The only reason I bothered posting this particular article was to make the world aware of the "loonies" who are spreading hatred against God's people.

Matthew 7: 6 "Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.

2 Tim 2: 14 Keep reminding people of this, and charge them solemnly before the Lord not to engage in word-battles. They accomplish nothing useful and are a catastrophe for the hearers!

2 Tim 2: 16 But keep away from godless babbling, for those who engage in it will only become more ungodly, 17 and their teaching will eat away at people like gangrene.....

Titus 3: 9 But avoid stupid controversies, genealogies, quarrels and fights about the Torah; because they are worthless and futile. 10 Warn a divisive person once, then a second time; and after that, have nothing more to do with him. 11 You may be sure that such a person has been perverted and is sinning: he stands self-condemmed.

2 Timothy 2: 23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels.

Romans 16: 17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put snares alongside the teaching in which you have been trained - keep away from them. 18 For men like these are not serving our Lord the Messiah but their own belly; by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the innocent.

I Cor 2: 14 ...The natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them.