"non-evasive psychic surgery" [Archive]

bindeweede

22nd August 2007, 05:09 PM

Earlier today, I was browsing round my local "Crystals" shop to see if I could pick up any "vibes". The only thing I was aware of picking up was a brochure listing talks and courses going on in the area, and I found this.

"Gary Mannion is a 19 year old Indigo Child with amazing psychic and healing gifts. Working with his Spirit Surgeon, Abraham, Gary will demonstrate Psychic Surgery on some willing members of the audience. These operations, which are completely safe and painless, are non-evasive, and require no surgical instruments, or removal of clothing. Whilst working, Gary will talk about how he and Abraham ended up working together, and how Psychic Surgery works."

He could save the NHS millions - no expensive surgeons, anaesthetists, expensive equipment, nurses, drugs. I wonder how he hasn't yet caught on.

Other meetings (£6.50 or £26 for 5) cover - Angelic Healing, the Ascension and Angelic Reiki, Working with the Violet Flame invoking Archangel Zadkiel and the Ascended Master, Saint-Germain, Crystals and Crystal Healing. Unfortunately, the "Didgeridoo Evening" was July 16th, so I've missed it.

There were also links to fascinating websites -
www.yourfreespirit.net (http://www.yourfreespirit.net)
www.positive-healing.co.uk (http://www.positive-healing.co.uk)
www.healingangels.co.uk (http://www.healingangels.co.uk)

and the delightful www.awaywiththefairies.com (http://www.awaywiththefairies.com)

It's almost an alternative world out there^-^

Lord Muck oGentry

22nd August 2007, 05:55 PM

Non-evasive?

Loved it! :-)

GaryMannion

31st August 2007, 12:27 AM

John Jackson

31st August 2007, 12:35 AM

Hello Gary.

Would you be so kind as to name at least some of the "leading doctors and medical professionals" that you work with?

Only it's a sort of quirk that skeptics have that we like to check out claims by seeing the evidence. O0

It may sound like an odd question but do you believe in psychokinesis? Only I seem to have heard your name before and this rings a bell.

bindeweede

3rd September 2007, 12:20 AM

A friend asked me to check out this link. However I didn't know it was about me.

I do currently work with many leading doctors and medical professionals. However £35 is a reasonable amount for me I'm not in it for the money just to help people (But I got to live :smiley:)

Was the Crystal shop you went to called ISIS?

Love and Light Always
Gary Mannion

Gary,

Yes, it was the ISIS Crystals shop in St. Albans. I happen to live in the area. I also happen to have a couple of contacts with doctors in the area. Would you be able to tell me the names of some of those you work with? The NHS is always looking for ways to save money and improve services to patients. I'm sure that is what we all want.

If you don't want to post publically, you can always send me a PM.

Julia

3rd September 2007, 07:33 PM

"Many leading doctors and medical professionals"? I won't hold my breath waiting for Gary to produce a list of these individuals...

bindeweede

3rd September 2007, 09:06 PM

Just in case anyone thought I was making it up -

www.isis-crystals.com (http://www.isis-crystals.com)

FarSideOfTheMoon

3rd September 2007, 10:23 PM

Just in case anyone thought I was making it up -

www.isis-crystals.com (http://www.isis-crystals.com)

It is certainly far-fetched, ridiculous and nonsensical, but I never for a second thought you were making it up funnily enough....

bindeweede

3rd September 2007, 10:35 PM

It is certainly far-fetched, ridiculous and nonsensical, but I never for a second thought you were making it up funnily enough....

Thank you, sir.

Julia

14th September 2007, 08:57 PM

I take it that Gary has evaded giving you a list of doctors who support his non-evasive surgery?

bindeweede

14th September 2007, 09:10 PM

I take it that Gary has evaded giving you a list of doctors who support his non-evasive surgery?
Julia,

I can't speak for John, but Gary has not been in touch with me, re leading doctors and medical professionals.

I suppose he might have been trying to get through to me telepathically, or via next-door's Indigo Child, but my receptors appear to be in distinctly non-functional mode:-[.

bindeweede

14th September 2007, 09:23 PM

Quote from Gary's post...

I'm not in it for the money just to help people

Hang on - haven't I read something very similar on another thread here? Now let me see, where..was..it.....
:cheesy:

FarSideOfTheMoon

14th September 2007, 09:55 PM

Quote from Gary's post...

I'm not in it for the money just to help people

Hang on - haven't I read something very similar on another thread here? Now let me see, where..was..it.....
:cheesy:

Why can't one of them be in it for the money AND to help people, just for once. ::)

I mean, it isn't like doctors, surgeons, consultants etc are doing it for fun. They study and work hard to earn a good wage, along with the satisfaction of helping people.

GaryMannion

5th December 2007, 05:43 PM

GaryMannion

5th December 2007, 05:44 PM

<SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Garamond; mso-bidi-font-size: 14.0pt">I am Megan Ford from Wiltshire aged 63.

GaryMannion

5th December 2007, 05:45 PM

Site is not letting me copy and paste testamonial if you would like a copy of it please tell me your email address and I will email it to you.

seren

5th December 2007, 07:05 PM

Dr Gowri Motha is a holistic obstetrician, combining medical training with expertise in a number of complementary therapies. Gowri loves helping others feel energetic, healthy and happy and has been using healing for over 20 years. She has created the Jeyarani gentle birth method, which offers creative healing with other therapies such as reflexology, craniosacral therapy and ayurveda. She also uses creative healing to treat a range of concerns, including fertility.

http://www.viveka.co.uk/specialities/gowri_motha3.html

A Google search for "Manesh Naidoo" brings up nothing, but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

The last is a homeopathic doctor. Say no more.

Matt

5th December 2007, 07:06 PM

Hello everyone sorry for not getting back sooner. I actually forgot about this forum.

Some of the medical professions I work with are

Dr Gowri Motha - Got waterbirth into the Nhs

Manesh Naidoo - Head Physiotherapiist for Northwick park Hospital

Dr Glen Davies - Homeopatic Doctor, with over 30 years experiance.

E.t.c I will have to ask the other medical professions if I can post their Details.

For any of those who don't believe in Psychic Surgery please have a read of this testamonial below and see what you think.

Hi Gary,

On a technical note you could try pasting your testimonial into notepad and then into the forum.

On a note of skepticism here's a video of illusionist Chris Angel performing "psychic surgery."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2120907748220373823

Now we know that Chris Angel is not a psychic. We know he's an illusionist and he'll reveal some of these techniques. Others of his techniques he'll reveal only to other illusionists as they're trade secrets.

Here's the story of Alex Orbito who appears to be pulling the same schtick but claiming he's genuine.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general475.html

Here's the story of that self same man being indicted on charges of fraud.

http://www.filipinoreporter.com/archive/3327/headline03.htm

As we investigate Orbito we find that many testimonials are available, from celebrities and medical professionals alike and yet we still find that he is more likely than not a fraud. In fact we believe all psychic surgery of this nature to be a fraud as does the US Federal Trade Commission.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F20E17F73C5B157493C7AB178BD95F41 8785F9

The exitence of such testimonials in cases known to be fraudulent shows how convincing this fraud can be.

I have no doubt that at least some of the people claiming to be psychic surgeons with testimonials no less impressive than yours, are simply convincing frauds pulling the same stunts a Chris Angel demonstrates.

You claim to be different. The testimonials are not different, perhaps a willingness to submit to propper testing will mark you out as someting special.

I do hope so.

bobdezon

5th December 2007, 07:09 PM

psychic surgery? I wonder how long it will be before you kill someone with your idiocy?

seren

5th December 2007, 07:21 PM

More on Dr Gowri Motha:

Gowri Motha M.D. has bright eyes, a soft voice and an aura of calm that would seem to quell any mother-to-be's jitters. But London's leading natural-birth guru and the obstetrician who helped deliver Gwyneth Paltrow's baby, Apple, has some radical ideas about childbirth, starting with the very idea of labor. All the pain, the panting, the pushing, she believes, could one day be rendered virtually obsolete. "I have this dream that every baby should be breathed out of the mother's body," she says. "The uterus has enough power to push the baby out without all the huffing and [puffing?]

You have to sign in to read the rest of it and I'm not going to. Another one of the "it only hurts because you think it does" brigade.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-131279728.html

Oh, and I've now tried Googling Manesh Naidoo, Manish Naidoo, Manish Naidu, Manesh Naidu, M Naidu and M Naidoo, with and without references to Northwick Park Hospital. I gots nuthin.

Cuddles

5th December 2007, 07:25 PM

Dr Gowri Motha - Got waterbirth into the Nhs

She's a quack who is in to reflexology and various other crap. She may have done decent work in the past, but associating with someone described as "the celebs guru" is hardly a good endorsement for you.

Manesh Naidoo - Head Physiotherapiist for Northwick park Hospital

According to the hospital, the head physiotherapist is Sangita Patel (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&channel=s&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial&q=Sangita+Patel+physiotherapist&btnG=Search&meta=).

Dr Glen Davies - Homeopatic Doctor, with over 30 years experiance.

And you think saying you're friends with someone who gives water and sugar pills to ill people is going to help your case how exactly?

Of course, most real doctors I've met have also heard of the word "professionals". Of course, being unable to write coherently doesn't make you wrong, but it certainly makes one wonder if you actually know what you're talking about.

bindeweede

5th December 2007, 07:43 PM

Just in case anyone thought I was making it up -

www.isis-crystals.com (http://www.isis-crystals.com)

That website seems to be down at the moment, but you still get info about crystal healing from the same chap -

www.thecrystalhealer.co.uk (http://www.thecrystalhealer.co.uk)

But to be honest, I think this is more up my street

http://www.metaphysicalsociety.com/about-MSEC.asp

Mongrel

5th December 2007, 09:25 PM

EDIT - didn't notice page 2 :-[ my bad

DrS

6th December 2007, 08:39 PM

Gary, have you ever operated on anyone publicly or verifiably?

megan

9th December 2007, 04:02 PM

Witten on December 5th 2007
I am Megan Ford from Wiltshire aged 63.

I had BPPV - Benign, Paroxysmal, Positional, Vertigo, caused by a head injury, sustained in a road accident in 1962, when I was 18 years old. The impact displaced the otoconia, which are crystals of calcium carbonate, sometimes called ear rocks, in my left ear, thus allowing them to move around in the semi-circular canal in the ear.

The effects of BPPV started in the 1970's, in my mid thirties. The symptoms are, dizziness, disorientation and nausea.and it feels like being drunk or seasick. I was having 10 to 12 dizzy episodes a day, most lasting only seconds, but often the symptoms lasted for several days and twice, in 1980 and 1990 they lasted for months. All I could do when I had an "attack" was to lie in bed, propped up and keep still.

For 30 years I haven't been able to lie down flat, turn over in bed, always sleeping on my right side, tilt my head up or down or turn my head to the left. It is a very debilitating condition. During the last 30 years I've been given, through my doctors: pills, X-rays, a brain scan, traction and physiotherapy. I have been sent to see an orthopaedic surgeon and an ENT specialist. I have also paid for dozens of sessions with acupuncturists, chiropractors, reflexologists and physiotherapists. I was always told that it was due to damage to my upper spine, admittedly when I was dizzy I did have pain in my neck, but I now believe that was because of the rigid way I held my head during an attack. I was given a neck collar to wear, which did help, but only because it prevented me from moving my head!

In 2003 it was a private physiotherapist (Chris Smith) who diagnosed BPPV and he performed the Epley Manoeuvre (a positioning technique to move the otoconia to a less sensitive area of the ear). This series of movements made me feel very sick, but did work for a few weeks.

In July 2007 I saw Gary Mannion, a 19 year old, with no medical knowledge or experience, demonstrating psychic surgery in a tent in Somerset. I made an appointment with him on August 12th 2007. I was with Gary for 20 minutes. He just put his hands over my ears. I felt nothing. He told me the crystals in my ear would dissolve during the next few days. (It was interesting that he also said, as the crystals dissolved I may lose some hearing, which I had read could happen if they were removed surgically. I'm glad to say this didn't happen, but as I said at the time, I'd sooner be deaf in one ear than live as I was)
I was very careful at first, dreading the "seasickness", but gradually realised I was not having any episodes.
I can now lie down, turn over, de-cobweb my ceilings! Zip up my boots, get things out of the kitchen cupboards, have a bath instead of a shower and do everyday things too numerous to mention, things I have been unable to do for 30 years. Now 4 months after seeing Gary I haven't had even a fleeting bout of dizziness.

20 minutes with Gary and I've got my life back after 30 years at the age of 63. Eternal gratitude to Gary & Abraham.

---------------------------------------------

2nd visit
I returned to Gary on October 5th 07, 8 weeks later to reassure me that there were no crystals - this he did. I could now lie down on his couch! I had a spine injury from the same accident in 1962, but I also had high blood pressure. Gary said the blood pressure was a priority and again he treated me for 20 minutes, the treatment appearing to me to me much the same. I was taking 3 different pills a day and my BP was around 155-160/90-95. After 8 weeks and gradually reducing my pills as my BP dropped, I was taking 1 pill a day and my BP reading was 120-125/70-75.
(I do check my BP most days as I know it is dangerous to come of pills too quickly) Gary did not advise me.

-----------------------------------------------

3rd visit
My next appointment was December 3rd07 for my spine. Gary diagnosed a twist and compacted vertebrae in the middle of my spine (around my bra line). I knew this to be true as I've had several x-rays. I lay on my front, which would have been impossible 4 months previously, and he worked on my spine, this was painless, but I could hear the vertebrae moving or grating - very weird sensation. He said I would have some pain for a few days and would need to see him once more for my neck. I did experience pain for 2 days and my back was generating a lot of heat.

megan

9th December 2007, 04:21 PM

Site is not letting me copy and paste testamonial if you would like a copy of it please tell me your email address and I will email it to you.
I.ve pasted it in my post but here it is for everyone to read.
December 5th 2007
I am Megan Ford from Wiltshire aged 63.

I had BPPV - Benign, Paroxysmal, Positional, Vertigo, caused by a head injury, sustained in a road accident in 1962, when I was 18 years old. The impact displaced the otoconia, which are crystals of calcium carbonate, sometimes called ear rocks, in my left ear, thus allowing them to move around in the semi-circular canal in the ear.

The effects of BPPV started in the 1970's, in my mid thirties. The symptoms are, dizziness, disorientation and nausea and it feels like being drunk or seasick. I was having 10 to 12 dizzy episodes a day, most lasting only seconds, but often the symptoms lasted for several days and twice, in 1980 and 1990 they lasted for months. All I could do when I had an "attack" was to lie in bed, propped up and keep still.

For 30 years I haven't been able to lie down flat, turn over in bed, always sleeping on my right side, tilt my head up or down or turn my head to the left. It is a very debilitating condition. During the last 30 years I've been given, through my doctors: pills, X-rays, a brain scan, traction and physiotherapy. I have been sent to see an orthopaedic surgeon and an ENT specialist. I have also paid for dozens of sessions with acupuncturists, chiropractors, reflexologists and physiotherapists. I was always told that it was due to damage to my upper spine, admittedly when I was dizzy I did have pain in my neck, but I now believe that was because of the rigid way I held my head during an attack. I was given a neck collar to wear, which did help, but only because it prevented me from moving my head!

In 2003 it was a private physiotherapist (Chris Smith) who diagnosed BPPV and he performed the Epley Manoeuvre (a positioning technique to move the otoconia to a less sensitive area of the ear). This series of movements made me feel very sick, but did work for a few weeks.

In July 2007 I saw Gary Mannion, a 19 year old, with no medical knowledge or experience, demonstrating psychic surgery in a tent in Somerset. I made an appointment with him on August 12th 2007. I was with Gary for 20 minutes. He just put his hands over my ears. I felt nothing. He told me the crystals in my ear would dissolve during the next few days. (It was interesting that he also said, as the crystals dissolved I may lose some hearing, which I had read could happen if they were removed surgically. I'm glad to say this didn't happen, but as I said at the time, I'd sooner be deaf in one ear than live as I was)
I was very careful at first, dreading the "seasickness", but gradually realised I was not having any episodes.
I can now lie down, turn over, de-cobweb my ceilings! Zip up my boots, get things out of the kitchen cupboards, have a bath instead of a shower and do everyday things too numerous to mention, things I have been unable to do for 30 years. Now 4 months after seeing Gary I haven't had even a fleeting bout of dizziness.

20 minutes with Gary and I've got my life back after 30 years at the age of 63. Eternal gratitude to Gary & Abraham.

---------------------------------------------

2nd visit
I returned to Gary on October 5th 07, 8 weeks later to reassure me that there were no crystals - this he did. I could now lie down on his couch! I had a spine injury from the same accident in 1962, but I also had high blood pressure. Gary said the blood pressure was a priority and again he treated me for 20 minutes, the treatment appearing to me to me much the same. I was taking 3 different pills a day and my BP was around 155-160/90-95. After 8 weeks and gradually reducing my pills as my BP dropped, I was taking 1 pill a day and my BP reading was 120-125/70-75.
(I do check my BP most days as I know it is dangerous to come of pills too quickly) Gary did not advise me.

-----------------------------------------------

3rd visit
My next appointment was December 3rd07 for my spine. Gary diagnosed a twist and compacted vertebrae in the middle of my spine (around my bra line). I knew this to be true as I've had several x-rays. I lay on my front, which would have been impossible 4 months previously, and he worked on my spine, this was painless, but I could hear the vertebrae moving or grating - very weird sensation. He said I would have some pain for a few days and would need to see him once more for my neck. I did experience pain for 2 days and my back was generating a lot of heat.

bobdezon

9th December 2007, 04:54 PM

I dont believe a word of that , you randomly come to defend your "surgeon" and offer no proof of your claims, and expect everyone to just say "ok well thats that sorted then". Seriously if you really want to assist gary then you should provide medical evidence to show your previously existing condition is no more, and make sure your doctor states there was no surgical intervention and this is a miracle cure.
Sceptics cannot accept anecdotal information. You could be delusional,lying or severely mistaken for all we know, and the fact that psychic surgery is not possible would indicate one or more of those options would apply directly to you.

megan

9th December 2007, 05:08 PM

I suggest too much Pot noodle has addled your brain. I have informed my doctor, but as yet have not had an appoinment with him. My condition is very easy to diagnose & therefore very easy to prove it has been cured.

bobdezon

9th December 2007, 05:26 PM

FarSideOfTheMoon

10th December 2007, 12:32 PM

Hmmm, This is of particular interest to me.

For several years I have suffered from Vertigo style attacks lasting up to 20 minutes. This is not BPPV, and I've had MRIs etc and medical advice is that it is currently unexplained. Which isn't ideal, but it's better than being told it is due to an underlying serious medical condition.

I have recently also started experiencing the classic symptoms of BPPV - short bouts of dizziness in line with the causes of BPPV.

As I've been to see leading ENT people as well, they have said that a neck injury could cause vertigo, however they made that comment after BPPV had been discounted.

So, I do concur that much of your back story does make sense, other than the part about spine/neck issues causing BPPV - I simply don't know if that is the case.

How do you think Gary managed to dissolve your crystals? Why would only the displaced crystals dissolve, and not the crystals in the utricle? (which is were they are supposed to be).

megan

10th December 2007, 02:01 PM

FarSideOfTheMoon

10th December 2007, 02:26 PM

I didn't say that the vertigo was caused by the back injury. I said it was due to the same accident. Bppv is often caused by a bang to the head. The diagnosis is to lie down, turn your head to the bad side and tip it backwards, if you have Bppv your eyes spin. You need someone else to watch the movement of your eyes.The diagnosis makes you feel very nausious.

Yes, I know. I've had the tests.

I didn't say your vertigo was caused by the back injury, I just stated I hadn't heard that was a possible explanation for BPPV, that's all.

So, do you have any ideas how the displaced crystals can be dissolved, but the crystals which remain in the correct place are untouched?

How does "he" target the healing with such precision?

Julia

10th December 2007, 04:08 PM

This is exactly the sort of reply I was expecting - a string of anecdotes which we are supposed to take at face value. ::)

Mojo

10th December 2007, 04:19 PM

Dr Glen Davies - Homeopatic Doctor, with over 30 years experiance.
Where does Dr. Davies practise? There doesn't appear to be a Glen Davies on the GMC's List of Registered Medical Practitioners (http://www.gmc-uk.org/register/search/index.asp).

GaryMannion

11th December 2007, 08:31 PM

Everyone seems to be getting a little worked up for no reason. I know Psychic Surgery works. Clients who have seen me know that it works. If you don't believe it that's fine don't come to me for treatment.

For those on this forum who think I can help them I will be happy to help in anyway I can.

For anyone who has found offence to the fact that Psychic Surgery exists I am sorry for the way you feel. However I don't think a lot of you will be open for me to change your opinions.

For those who are sceptics I would say that I am happy to be put to the test by any medical profession as long as they are willing to actually tackle it from a serious angle and not out right to try and prove me wrong.

seren

11th December 2007, 08:50 PM

For anyone who has found offence to the fact that Psychic Surgery exists I am sorry for the way you feel. However I don't think a lot of you will be open for me to change your opinions.

Are you open to changing your opinions? Because we are just as sure that it doesn't work.

For those who are sceptics I would say that I am happy to be put to the test by any medical profession

Good, that's a good start. O0

as long as they are willing to actually tackle it from a serious angle and not out right to try and prove me wrong.

If they did that their results would not be taken seriously, the test would not be valid. By the same token, you shouldn't accept a fair test and then, if it shows you in a bad light, just claim that they wanted you to look bad because you can't accept the results. Sound fair?

GaryMannion

11th December 2007, 09:39 PM

What I mean by open to it is that it is a fair test and that they don't intentionally try and prove it wrong if the results are there.

bobdezon

11th December 2007, 09:44 PM

Gary, all you would have to do to prove your ability is to produce a tumour for DNA testing from a patient while under observation. If you can and it is human DNA and a tumour and there is medical evidence to suggest the tumour is now gone then I would fully admit that psychic surgery was real. Can you do that?

mahakala

12th December 2007, 02:15 AM

What kind of conditions is "psychic surgery" being used for?

mahakala

12th December 2007, 02:58 AM

I understand that on October 13th there was a demonstration of psychic surgery. Any reported comments?

FarSideOfTheMoon

12th December 2007, 05:47 AM

What kind of conditions is "psychic surgery" being used for?

Anything that heals itself, or responds to conventional treatment. Bit like homeopathy really.

Cuddles

12th December 2007, 11:19 AM

If you don't believe it that's fine don't come to me for treatment.

Gary, you appear to have a slight misunderstanding of how these things work. When it comes to medical treatment, it's not a question of not going to see you if we don't believe you, it's a question of you either proving that you can do what you claim, or you being a criminal and ending up in jail. Claiming to cure people, especially cancer, is illegal. You have far more to worry about than what a few skeptics think.

Julia

12th December 2007, 02:52 PM

I understand that on October 13th there was a demonstration of psychic surgery. Any reported comments?

If such a demonstration did indeed take place, was attended by people well-versed in "psychic surgery" and found to be genuine, I somehow think that we'd know about it by now. It would have made front-page news all over the world, torn to shreds everything we thought we knew about biology and physics and made the surgeon a dead cert for a Nobel Prize. ::)

Jocky

12th December 2007, 03:59 PM

What I mean by open to it is that it is a fair test and that they don't intentionally try and prove it wrong if the results are there.

Hi Gary, and welcome to UKS.

Absolutely - any trial of a proposed treatment must be based on an objective protocol ("it is a fair test"), and the implementation must be unbiased ("they don't intentionally try and prove it wrong"). Nobody will disagree with that.

The usual way of conducting a fair trial, which measures results in an objective and reproducible manner, is to use placebo controls.

The usual way to ensure that the personal prejudices of those involved do not effect the outcome is to ensure that the trial is double blinded.

Are you familiar with these ideas?

mahakala

13th December 2007, 06:30 PM

Here's the thing about scepticism. If it's a person's belief that is making them well, and then a sceptic takes that away from them, who has done more harm?

Cuddles

13th December 2007, 06:46 PM

Here's the thing about scepticism. If it's a person's belief that is making them well, and then a sceptic takes that away from them, who has done more harm?

That's not really a problem, since people's beliefs don't make them well.

bobdezon

13th December 2007, 08:13 PM

Touché O0

Mongrel

14th December 2007, 02:22 AM

Here's the thing about scepticism. If it's a person's belief that is making them well, and then a sceptic takes that away from them, who has done more harm?

Amoxicillin works whether you believe it or not...

ZERO

14th December 2007, 09:10 AM

Here's the thing about scepticism. If it's a person's belief that is making them well, and then a sceptic takes that away from them, who has done more harm?
Planes into skyscrapers, the inquisition, Waco, the odd person killed by an exorcisim gone wrong and the odd person who dies from cancer because some woo medical practice does not work. just to name a few. Belief does plenty of harm.

When was the last war fought over Scepticism or Athieism?

The world would be a better place without baseless belief in all its guises.

The Great Bymble

14th December 2007, 11:49 AM

Planes into skyscrapers, the inquisition, Waco, the odd person killed by an exorcisim gone wrong and the odd person who dies from cancer because some woo medical practice does not work. just to name a few. Belief does plenty of harm.

Here's the latest example of beliefs leading to tragedy -
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1296741,00.html

In this case I don't know what disturbs me the most - that 40 family members watched and apparently did nothing to prevent a death,or that such practices continued after the fatality.

bobdezon

14th December 2007, 03:05 PM

Ancient knowledge in action O0

mahakala

15th December 2007, 01:02 AM

mahakala

15th December 2007, 01:05 AM

Oh I forgot. Millions are deluded. A few know the truth and they call themselves sceptics.

Yup. Church of Scepticism.

ZERO

15th December 2007, 01:26 AM

Yes of course it is easy to find examples where people did what they did unwisely.

It still doesn't change anything.

If accupuncture or herbology or homeopathy is bunk, why do some people get well?

Or do you wish to deny that anyone is ever helped in any way by any of these modalities.
Placebo effect.
Its well documented, why don't you read up on it?

Oh I forgot. Millions are deluded. A few know the truth and they call themselves sceptics.

Yup. Church of Scepticism.
Church implies faith based belief.
Skepticism is about evidence.
If you haven't learned that on this site yet you must have a learning disability.

But, you're right. Millions are deluded.

bobdezon

15th December 2007, 01:35 AM

I should also be added that sceptics can prove their claims, accupuncturists, herbologists and homeopaths cannot. So yes we know the truth, because we have taken the time to learn it.

mahakala

15th December 2007, 02:15 AM

Is placebo effect not belief?

DrS

15th December 2007, 02:47 AM

Not if it's demonstrated by evidence, no, I wouldn't say so.

bobdezon

15th December 2007, 11:15 AM

placebo is a preparation which is pharmacologically inert but which may have a therapeutical effect based solely on the power of suggestion.

Mojo

15th December 2007, 04:42 PM

If accupuncture or herbology or homeopathy is bunk, why do some people get well?

Or do you wish to deny that anyone is ever helped in any way by any of these modalities.

Oh look, the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy and a strawman argument.

Janot

15th December 2007, 06:15 PM

If accupuncture or herbology or homeopathy is bunk, why do some people get well?Put as simply as possible, a lot of illnesses cure themselves when you do nothing. The fact that a patient tried some cure and recovered does not necessarily mean the cure had any effect.

mahakala

15th December 2007, 07:34 PM

Ah yes.

The fact that millions of times each year people rub the lotion traumeel into their strained muscles and get relief, is based on a delusion.

The fact that the head coach of the French football team prefers homeopathy for quick and immediate relief of strains, is based on a delusion.

The relief many individuals, especially women, get from sarsparilla for urinary tract infections, is based on a delusion.

The relief many children get for chicken pox from taking rhus tox, is based on a delusion.

etc. etc. etc.

Funny how people will deny the evidence when it is staring them right in the face.

I suggest a trial. One hundred and fifty skeptics. Each will be hit with a hammer until bruised. 50 will be immediately be treated with Arnica, 50 with sugar water, 50 with nothing at all.

mahakala

15th December 2007, 07:35 PM

Amoxicillin works whether you believe it or not...

Nobody says it doesn't.

That's not the point.

mahakala

15th December 2007, 07:36 PM

That's not really a problem, since people's beliefs don't make them well.

Think carefully about what you just said.

And whether that is really what you believe.

mahakala

15th December 2007, 07:40 PM

Planes into skyscrapers, the inquisition, Waco, the odd person killed by an exorcisim gone wrong and the odd person who dies from cancer because some woo medical practice does not work. just to name a few. Belief does plenty of harm.

When was the last war fought over Scepticism or Athieism?

The world would be a better place without baseless belief in all its guises.

Homeopathy is not a baseless belief. It is based on evidence.

Sorry you don't trust yourself enough to believe in what you can test for yourself, but rather need other people to "prove it for you."

You kind of remind me of the guy on another discussion group who says homeopathy is bunk, but takes a homeopathic sea sickness preparation whenever he goes boating, "because it works everytime."

Such independent thinkers you sceptics.

chillzero

15th December 2007, 08:04 PM

Ah yes.

The fact that millions of times each year people rub the lotion traumeel into their strained muscles and get relief, is based on a delusion.

No, it's based on the fact that rubbing strained muscles - with any lubricant - is beneficial by increasing circulation and often raising the temperature.

The fact that the head coach of the French football team prefers homeopathy for quick and immediate relief of strains, is based on a delusion.

Yes. Yes it is, because there is no scientific evidence that hompeopathy does anything at all above the placebo effect.

The relief many individuals, especially women, get from sarsparilla for urinary tract infections, is based on a delusion.

No, it's based on the fact that many fluids will assist with UTIs, particularly sharper ones such as sarsaparilla, and cranberry.

The relief many children get for chicken pox from taking rhus tox, is based on a delusion.

I can't comment on this one as it is new to me. I am sure one of the other members will enlighten us shortly.

etc. etc. etc.

Funny how people will deny the evidence when it is staring them right in the face.

Yes. I am regularly amazed by the amount of people still bought into homeopathy when it has clearly been scientifically shown to be ineffective.

Nobody says it doesn't.

That's not the point.

That was entirely the point. Medicines work whether people believe they will or not. They hold up under scientific trials and testing. Homeopathic remedies do not.

chillzero

15th December 2007, 08:06 PM

Homeopathy is not a baseless belief. It is based on evidence.

What evidence? Please show it.

mahakala

15th December 2007, 08:17 PM

No, go out and find the evidence for yourself.

Because it is there.

The internet cowboys on this site have not done that.

Often they are like the guy in the weather channel joke.

On their TV it says it is a nice sunny day.

They walk outside and it is pouring rain.

Who do you believe?

The authority on TV?

Or your own wet head?

Mongrel

15th December 2007, 08:22 PM

Ah yes.

The fact that millions of times each year people rub the lotion traumeel into their strained muscles and get relief, is based on a delusion.
The mere act of rubbing can help a strained muscle

The fact that the head coach of the French football team prefers homeopathy for quick and immediate relief of strains, is based on a delusion. Yep - I'd rather get my advice from medically trained professionals.

The relief many individuals, especially women, get from sarsparilla for urinary tract infections, is based on a delusion.
Drinking lots of fluid will always help with a UTI anyway and given that it's mildly diuretic in nature. But checking the literature "Practical Guide to Natural Medicines (http://www.amazon.com/American-Pharmaceutical-Association-Practical-Medicines/dp/0688161510/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197745811&sr=8-1)" by the American Pharmacists Association gives it a score of 4 - Research indicates that this substance will not fulfill claims made for it, but it is also unlikely to cause harm. Easier to stick to cranberry juice (which is backed by evidence) or pop to the chemists for a couple of sachets of potassium citrate.

The relief many children get for chicken pox from taking rhus tox, is based on a delusion.
Yep - probably due to observer bias and "getting Moms' attention"

Funny how people will deny the evidence when it is staring them right in the face.
Funny how some people insist anecdotes are Evidence

I suggest a trial. One hundred and fifty skeptics. Each will be hit with a hammer until bruised. 50 will be immediately be treated with Arnica, 50 with sugar water, 50 with nothing at all.

So no individualisation? Or was that going to be Standby excuse #1?

Trials have been done. Homeopathy has yet to show any significant clinical effect.

chillzero

15th December 2007, 08:26 PM

No, go out and find the evidence for yourself.

Because it is there.

The internet cowboys on this site have not done that.

I don't have the scientific knowledge or the respources to undertake testing that has been done already by experts. Even if I do undertake to prove something myself, I will still be open to evidence that I have been mistaken, or fooled from someone who does have that expertise.

I would never be so foolish as to believe it is sunny when clearly the water is pouring down my face, yet it seems to me that this is what proponents of homeopathy continue to do. The scientific evidence is there to show it is ineffective,and yet they ignore it and continue to push it.

I take it that you mean you have no evidence to provide, then?

mahakala

15th December 2007, 08:30 PM

bobdezon

15th December 2007, 08:30 PM

mahakala

15th December 2007, 08:34 PM

I don't have the scientific knowledge or the respources to undertake testing that has been done already by experts. Even if I do undertake to prove something myself, I will still be open to evidence that I have been mistaken, or fooled from someone who does have that expertise.

I would never be so foolish as to believe it is sunny when clearly the water is pouring down my face, yet it seems to me that this is what proponents of homeopathy continue to do. The scientific evidence is there to show it is ineffective,and yet they ignore it and continue to push it.

I take it that you mean you have no evidence to provide, then?

I have lots of evidence. It is called experience. And you can contact millions of people world wide who accept that as evidence. Because in the end it makes not one whit of difference in medicine why something work, only if it does. In the end that is all most patients care about. And so that is where patient will look for their evidence.

Did you know that the former editor of Lancet recently was interviewd by the CBC national anchorman and stated that medical journals and the testing of pharmaceutical products are always manipulated to prove the desired outcome. Do you think mayne that has some bearing on the arguement?

mahakala

15th December 2007, 08:38 PM

Instead of telling everyone how wonderful homeopathy is, why dont you spend you time proving it with facts that you supply instead of your opinion based on your belief? I mean you are really making yourself look foolish.

No you are a fool. Because a fool denies their own experience.

And I see from above that most of you don't even know anything about homeopathy. When I mentioned sarsparilla, you argued the material dilution. Nobody uses material dilutions in homeopathy.

mahakala

15th December 2007, 08:39 PM

But never mind.

Argueing with people without knowledge is indeed a fool's game.

chillzero

15th December 2007, 08:40 PM

It is sad, in a world where chronic ailments are on the increase, despite the increasing sophistication of medicine.

It is sad, in a world where side effects from medications are rampant.

It is sad, in a world where pharmaceutical conglomerates are busy trying to force feed their expensive products to the populace.

It is sad, in a world resistance to antibiotics is increasing because of overuse.

It is sad, in a world where a million anti-depressents are prescribed each day.

It is sad, in a world where ecological and economic considerations in healthcare are at crisis level.

It is sad, in a world where "authorities" in religion and politics and business have been proven so corrupt and destructive.

'It' is sad? What exactly is sad?
In my opinion, it is sad that anti-depressants and antibiotics have indeed been so overused as to contribute to the rise of diseases and the inability to treat them effectively.

It is sad, that a few internet groupies have got nothing better to do than attack those individuals attempting to right some of the aforementioned wrongs, by offering alternatives.

There is nothing wrong with offering alternatives - if they actually work. What we would attack is anyone profiting from the use of inneffective 'remedies', and the targetting of people who have nowhere else to turn.

It is sad, that the same few have such a little regard for other humans that they can declare that millions of experiences of having been helped by homeopathy, are delusionary.

In this aspect of your argument it is beyond sad, it is reprehensible that people have such little regard for other humans that they peddle sugar pills and water, for their own profit.

Who is rational? Who is irrational?

It is irrational to continue to promote inneffective sugar pills and water.

Who is hiding their mean-spirited, narrow-mindedness behind a mask of rationality, of scepticism?

You are.

Who is really thinking for themselves?

Hopefully, many people who can review the information and evidence provided by qualified people, and weigh it against the lack of evidence brought forward by someone like yourself. Still no evidence to supply?

mahakala

15th December 2007, 08:48 PM

Like I said.

Evidence of human beings.

Why don't you go look for it.

And find out for yourself.

But then that's a lot more work isn't.

So much easier to sit behind a computer and throw stones.

Still, the hubris of you all denying the experience of millions of people, many of which are highly educated, is astonishing.

And further, the incredible black and white thinking you all portray, is also astonishing.

I guess that goes with being an internet cowboy. Dit dot, dit dot, dit dot.

bobdezon

15th December 2007, 08:49 PM

No you are a fool. Because a fool denies their own experience.

You have completely avoided my question, because you cannot defend your position. It would appear you are a fool. Dont think anyone didnt notice either. Conversing with you Is like speaking to a toddler. Except the toddler would have a small chance of understanding me.

And I see from above that most of you don't even know anything about homeopathy. When I mentioned sarsparilla, you argued the material dilution. Nobody uses material dilutions in homeopathy.

That wasnt me, so why are you lying? Like I said earlier you would appear to be nothing but a troll with the IQ of a potato. Good luck with your damaged genes, Ill be sorry to see your extinction.

chillzero

15th December 2007, 08:54 PM

I think I'll just sit back and wait for our resident skeptic honeopath to come and take him to town.

ETA: We need a popcorn smiley

Mojo

15th December 2007, 09:02 PM

Like I said.

Evidence of human beings.

Why don't you go look for it.

You can't provide any evidence, can you?

ZERO

15th December 2007, 11:06 PM

Homeopathy is not a baseless belief. It is based on evidence.Show me the evidence and not anecdotes, real evidence. Members, at the very least, supply a link to support their claims here.

You kind of remind me of the guy on another discussion group who says homeopathy is bunk, but takes a homeopathic sea sickness preparation whenever he goes boating, "because it works everytime."
I remind you of an anecdote?

Such independent thinkers you sceptics.
Thank you. You know, it is very liberating.

John Jackson

15th December 2007, 11:17 PM

Why don't you go look for it.

And find out for yourself.

Is this the "you've got to find out for yourself" argument?

It really doesn't wash I'm afraid.

It assumes that we can't be fooled; and we certainly can be fooled by others and by ourselves.

It's also a fallacious Appeal to Vanity. All you're saying is that despite science and all of its rigorous methodology etc. saying that something doesn't work, you can know better.

It's a ridiculous claim and is also a hallmark of a credophile trying to defend their belief system against all the evidence.

Julia

16th December 2007, 12:55 AM

The best way to deal with Mahakala is simply to treat his nonsense with the homeopathically diluted amount of attention it deserves.

Like so. :cheesy:

Janot

16th December 2007, 12:38 PM

Homeopathy is not a baseless belief. It is based on evidence.

No, go out and find the evidence for yourself.
mahakala has not even begun to grasp the concept of dialogue about this.

The moon is made of green cheese. This is based on evidence.
Go out and find the evidence for yourself.

Very convincing.:sad:

Mongrel

16th December 2007, 01:24 PM

Very convincing.:sad:

Very typical.

Cuddles

16th December 2007, 04:05 PM

placebo is a preparation which is pharmacologically inert but which may have a therapeutical effect based solely on the power of suggestion.

Actually no. Placebo has no therapeutic effect whatsoever. Studies show that there is actually no difference at all, not even in subjective reporting, between placebo and nothing at all, even though it might be expected that people would report feeling better.

Placebos are important in trials because blinding is impossible without them, but they have no medical use at all.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3230904&postcount=16
It's worth reading the rest of that thread as well, especially Linda's posts.

bobdezon

16th December 2007, 05:21 PM

It was a direct quote cuddles, not my words.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_effect

Feel free to edit the page. O0

seren

16th December 2007, 10:59 PM

What amazes me is how pompous mahakala's posts sound. I suppose I should expect it from someone who names themselves after a minor deity/bodhisattva. Ego much?

There's no humour, no banter. Apart from a couple of questions to Gary, his/her posts seem entirely made up of variations on the theme of "homeopathy works cuz people what have had it says it do" delivered in a condescending manner. Very enlightened.

I call Poe's Law.

bindeweede

16th December 2007, 11:41 PM

seren

17th December 2007, 01:13 AM

Yes. Part 1. It can apply to any believer types....

FarSideOfTheMoon

17th December 2007, 09:31 PM

Yes. Part 1. It can apply to any believer types....

I don't know if it relevant but a work colleague of mine who is on Facebook just changed his status to :

xxx hates secular Christmas things. Who cares about Rudolph? Jesus is who you need.

He is serious though, does that mean Poe's law doesn't apply?

Mongrel

18th December 2007, 01:26 AM

I don't know if it relevant but a work colleague of mine who is on Facebook just changed his status to :

xxx hates secular Christmas things. Who cares about Rudolph? Jesus is who you need.

He is serious though, does that mean Poe's law doesn't apply?

More of a proving - If you didn't know the guy you'd be hard pressed to tell if it was a parody or it the real thing?

Julia

18th December 2007, 06:22 PM

Jesus with your nose so bright,
Won't you guide my sleigh tonight?

It just doesn't have the same ring, does it? ;)

DrS

18th December 2007, 07:36 PM

Oh I don't know ^-^

Matt

19th December 2007, 11:58 AM

Ah yes.

The fact that millions of times each year people rub the lotion traumeel into their strained muscles and get relief, is based on a delusion.

I looked up the ingredients of Traumeel (http://www.naturalhealthconsult.com/Monographs/traumeel.html)ointment. Is this what you're talking about?

Traumeel™ Ointment contains in each 100 grams:
Belladonna 3X1.0 gmArnica montana radix 3X1.5 gmAconitum napellus 3X1.0 gmChamomilla 1X0.5 gmSymphytum officinale 4X0.1 gmCalendula officinalis 1X1.5 gmHamamelis virginina 1X1.5 gmMillefolium 1X0.3 gmHepar sulphuris calcareum 8X0.25 gmMercurius solubilis 8X 0.12 gmHypericum perforatum 6X0.09 gmBellis perennis 1X0.5 gmEchinacea augustifolia 1X0.5 gmEchinacea purpurea 1X0.5 gm
Inactive ingredients include purified water, paraffin, white petrolatum, ethanol and cetylstearyl alcohol

Some of the dilutions here are not what I'd call homepathic in nature. We're not running up against the molar limit of dilution. I'm quite prepared to believe for example that the quantities of Chamomilla (aka Chamomile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Chamomile)) present in this preparation are active. I'd like to see a study that compares the preparation with and without the Chamomile to quantifiy just how effective it is. As has been mentioned the "Inactive ingedients" alone compined with the effects of rubbing would be expected to have some effect. The question at hand is whether the addition of these additional ingredients adds to that beneficial effect. The way to find this out is through double blind studies. If double blind studies prove that these extra ingredients do have a further beneficial effect then I'm happy to accept that.

The fact that the head coach of the French football team prefers homeopathy for quick and immediate relief of strains, is based on a delusion.

This I take it is Raymond Domenech (http://www.randi.org/jr/040805how.html#3)? Yes he suffers from certain delusions. Using astrology to pick his team is one, I wouldn't be suprised that supporting homeopathy might be another. However what is this appeal to authority (http://www.fallacyfiles.org/authorit.html) supposed to prove? If yopu'd told me why Monsieur Domenech supports homeopathy then perhaps I could take something from his reasons. Perhaps he's performed a double blind study treating a ready supply of strains with both homeopathic and conventional treatments. Given those sort of details I might be able to make a judgement.

The relief many individuals, especially women, get from sarsparilla for urinary tract infections, is based on a delusion.

Quite possibly. However when tests can identify the bacterium present so that targetted antibiotics can clear the infection completely as confirmed by later tests then "relief" might be a way of postponing effective treatment.

The relief many children get for chicken pox from taking rhus tox, is based on a delusion.

chicken pox clears on its own. How do you know the relif you mention comes from the substance you mention? Without proper trials this is just post hoc (http://www.fallacyfiles.org/posthocf.html) rationalisation.

etc. etc. etc.

Funny how people will deny the evidence when it is staring them right in the face.

I'm not denying that what you say is true. It's just that I know of alternative explanations that mean I can't reach the same conclusions as you do.

I suggest a trial. One hundred and fifty skeptics. Each will be hit with a hammer until bruised. 50 will be immediately be treated with Arnica, 50 with sugar water, 50 with nothing at all.

That's the ticket. Don't forget to double blind the trial. There's a minor ethical problem, you may have to make do with accidentally occuring bruises.

And you know what. I've no problem with beliveing that the herbal remedy of arnica is effective against bruising.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3104730.stm

Just the sort of tests you have suggested demonstrate its effectiveneess allowing us to isolate and improve upon the active ingredients.

It is sad, in a world where chronic ailments are on the increase, despite the increasing sophistication of medicine.

Ahem... I suppose you'll be telling us that seatbelts increase injuries next. An increase in people suffering such chronic ailments if true may simply be the result in a decrease in people dying from them...

It is sad, in a world where side effects from medications are rampant.

Not if the alternitives are worse.

It is sad, in a world where pharmaceutical conglomerates are busy trying to force feed their expensive products to the populace.

Yes it is. It's also a sad world where the billion dollar alternative health industry is busy trying to force feed their expensive ineffective products to the populace.

It is sad, in a world resistance to antibiotics is increasing because of overuse.

Yes it is, also bacuse of failure to complete the course due to poor education as to why this is important in preventing the rise of antibiotic resistance.

It is sad, in a world where a million anti-depressents are prescribed each day.

Yes it is, as it is sad that so many people feel they need them.

It is sad, in a world where ecological and economic considerations in healthcare are at crisis level.

I'm not sure what you're refering to.

It is sad, in a world where "authorities" in religion and politics and business have been proven so corrupt and destructive.

Corruption is sad, yes. I happen to think that proving and exposing it is a good thing though. It means that we have less corruption today than when such things were hushed and covered up.

It is sad, that a few internet groupies have got nothing better to do than attack those individuals attempting to right some of the aforementioned wrongs, by offering alternatives.

Do you realy think you're doing that? I'm not so sure you are. I suspect that you're unwittingly propagatng anti scientific thinking pushing us further into an "endarkenment"

It is sad, that the same few have such a little regard for other humans that they can declare that millions of experiences of having been helped by homeopathy, are delusionary.

I mean no offense when I say they're delusional. The fact is that Millions of people CAN be wrong. Have you heard of Korean Fan Death (http://www.fandeath.net/)?

Who is rational? Who is irrational?

We're both using reason. However your reason is not based on empirical evidence. Mine is. Reason is no guarentee of truth. Garbage in, garbage out.

Who is hiding their mean-spirited, narrow-mindedness behind a mask of rationality, of scepticism?

Are you calling me mean spirited, that would be rather mean spirited of you don't you think?

Who is really thinking for themselves?

I am, are you?

Mojo

19th December 2007, 05:28 PM

I suggest a trial. One hundred and fifty skeptics. Each will be hit with a hammer until bruised. 50 will be immediately be treated with Arnica, 50 with sugar water, 50 with nothing at all.
That's the ticket. Don't forget to double blind the trial. There's a minor ethical problem, you may have to make do with accidentally occuring bruises.

To avoid both the ethical problem and the necessity to wait for people to bruise themselves accidentally, you could try treating bruising resulting from surgery.

Oh, hang on, somebody's beaten you to it:

http://www.jrsm.org/cgi/content/abstract/96/2/60

bindeweede

19th December 2007, 06:14 PM

As a Seasonal treat, I popped into my crystals shop today and picked up the latest leaflet with info on courses, talks and workshops.. Again, there is an appealing variety on offer - Moon Magic, Learn Intuitive Angel Card Readings, Advanced Earth Magic Wisdom,. The 2-day Laughter Yoga sound fun, but not the £200 fee.

And this from Gary Mannion, who does seem to have been busy over the months.....

"Trance Mediumship" March 10th

Gary Mannion is a 20 year old established Psychic Surgeon, Clairvoyant Medium, Hypnotherapist, Indigo Child Specialist, Physical Medium, and Fonder (sic) of the A.b.e Healing. Tonight Gary will allow his Spirit Surgeon to talk to the audience through Trance. Gary will allow Abraham to use his voice and Abraham, through Gary will answer any questions the audience have on spiritual subjects.

Gary does seem very experienced and qualified for such a young chap. I haven't yet found out what A.b.e Healing is, but he might return here and explain.

www.isis-crystals.com (http://www.isis-crystals.com) still seems to be down, so this can't be verified, but I hope readers will accept what I have posted is genuine.

Oh, and the shop is up for sale, apparently.

Ah, here's the link..

http://www.abehealing.org/16.html

GaryMannion

19th December 2007, 09:47 PM

Hi all

Firstly the person who asked me to produce tumors. I don't cut the skin and I make that very clear, hence I can't produce a tumour from the body. This is not the way I work on cancer (also I do not claim to have cured cancer which I also make very clear in my talks) I have had clients whose cancers have dissapeared since seeing me (even terminal cancers) however becauser it was not done under lab conditions I do not claim that the Psychic Surgery has cured it. You are free to draw what conclusions you want from that

Secondly the person who mentioned about blind test please give me more details.

Would also like to emphasize I never tell people to stop taking medication or seeking medical advice.

For the person who said they would rather get there advice from a medically trained profession Many homeopaths are medically trained and have doctor degrees so in most cases you are getting an opinion from a medical profession.

The person who mentioned they would attack someone who was making money from use of ineffective remedies. What you have not taken into account is that many people who turn to things like Homeopathy have suffered for ages, sometimes years with their problems and when they tried Homeopathy it either helped or completely cured their problem. That is why they stand by it and are commenting on this site for Homeopathy. I would fully recommend to anyone seeking medical or alternative help to look into it and get as much information as possible. Many people are made worse from medical science. So if you want to start saying about the mishaps that have happened in the alternative world by those not knowing what they are doing I can say much much more about mistakes and misdiagnosed problems resulting from the medical world. Also a lot of medical pills have terrible side effects which then lead to the client needing other medicines with their own side effects. How is that making people better.

The person who mentioned Isis up for sale
The shop is up for sale not because it is doing bad but because Phil the owner who works very much with crystals would like to do more with his work then being confined to the shop. However the shop aims to make sure that new owners will be keeping with the set trends.

For those who choose to insult the A.B.E Healing method please let me state this is a non profit form of healing. People can make donations if they choose to. Also training is taught again on a completely donation basis.

this is an argument that is just going to go on and on. For those who are slandering alternative therapies I would strongly hope you have tried alternative thearpies and are talking from first hand experiance because I have had the medical treatment so have many of my clients so I can comment there from that point of view. If you have not experianced then you really don't have an understanding of what you are arguing against.

Lastly what is this forum meant to accomplish those that came here believers are still believers. Those who came here sceptic are still sceptic. All that's happened is people are now insulting each other and what they believe. and we have got no more closer to a decision on either side when we did when we started.

Lastly for the person who made the cheeky comment about me being busy over the last couple of months. I have been thank you for noticing. Obviously something is going right if clients are still coming to me ;D

Love and Light Always
Gary Mannion

John Jackson

19th December 2007, 10:09 PM

John Jackson

19th December 2007, 10:29 PM

Here's Gary Mannion performing psychic surgery: (source (http://www.divinemessengers.com/gm%20about%20gary%20mannion.htm))

http://www.ukskeptics.com/graphics/Gary_Mannion1.jpg

Looks rather like the way that magicians perform 'psychic surgery'. ;)

The technique is to press the right hand down but fold the fingers back on themselves (like making a fist) whilst covering the view of others by placing the left hand over the right.

Gary, can you do 'psychic surgery' without covering your right hand with your left and would you be prepared to let us film you doing so?

bindeweede

19th December 2007, 11:00 PM

The person who mentioned Isis up for sale
The shop is up for sale not because it is doing bad but because Phil the owner who works very much with crystals would like to do more with his work then being confined to the shop. However the shop aims to make sure that new owners will be keeping with the set trends.

For those who choose to insult the A.B.E Healing method please let me state this is a non profit form of healing. People can make donations if they choose to. Also training is taught again on a completely donation basis.

Gary, did anyone suggest the shop was doing badly?

Who has chosen to insult the A.B.E Healing method? I certainly haven't.

You say you are a hypnotherapist. Will you tell me which organisation you trained with, and how long the training lasted. This quote can be found on the front page of the British Society of Hypnotherapists...

Various hypnosis training courses are regularly advertised by individuals with entrepreneurial skills but with little or no personal history of successful hypnotherapy practice or any proven attainments in the field. “Accreditation” or “Certification” programmes are sometimes advertised promising therapeutic competence after as little as 50 or 60 hours training.

Hypnotherapy is currently an unregulated profession and terms such as “accredited” or “recognised” may be used misleadingly to suggest a meaningful external recognition or credibility has been granted to a particular course which may not be the case. There is no legislation from the UK government that regulates the standard of hypnotherapy training courses. Courses may be offered by graduates of brief training programmes who begin teaching otheres within a very short time after completing their own training, thereby omitting the extensive period of successful clinical practice necessary for the development of a skilled hypnotherapy trainer.

Graduates of brief and superficial training courses often report feeling inadequately trained once engaged in clinical practice followed by a severe failure to establish a successful therapy practice. Sometimes trainees will undertake several short courses providing them with a series of letters after their names but no solid foundation for therapeutic practice. Questionable academic "qualifications" and non-demonstrable claims about therapeutic experience or other attainments may also be used to persuade prospective students to commit themselves financially to a course.

http://www.britishhypnotherapists.org.uk/training1.asp

bindeweede

19th December 2007, 11:13 PM

Oh, and Gary, my comment about you being busy for the last 4 months was not meant to be cheeky. In my original post on August 22nd, you said you were a Psychic Surgeon with amazing psychic and healing gifts.

You didn't specify being a Clairvoyant Medium, Hypnotherapist, Physical Medium, or founder of A.B.E Healing. I have no idea how you become qualified as a Physical Medium or Clairvoyant Medium, but you have done a lot in 4 months. Would you not agree?

Mongrel

19th December 2007, 11:14 PM

For the person who said they would rather get there advice from a medically trained profession Many homeopaths are medically trained and have doctor degrees so in most cases you are getting an opinion from a medical profession.

And many more are not....

We could ask VBloke how much medical training he got.

Julia

19th December 2007, 11:49 PM

[quote=GaryMannion;27710]
For those who choose to insult the A.B.E Healing method please let me state this is a non profit form of healing. People can make donations if they choose to. Also training is taught again on a completely donation basis.

Gary, you are missing the point. The fact that the A.B.E. Healing method is 'a non profit form of healing' is neither here nor there. Only a complete scientific ignoramus could read this: http://www.abehealing.org/2.html
...and not see if for what it is - an utterly nonsensical compendium of every New Age nuttiness going. If you are indeed the founder of A.B.E. healing (who was Abraham, by the way?) it is obvious that you do not understand the meaning of the word 'energy'. Fortunately for you, a large segment of the population ARE scientific ignoramuses.

As for your psychic surgery, I have to agree with other posters that your technique looks indistinguishable from that of the thoroughly debunked psychic surgeons of the Phillipines and the magicians who have duplicated their 'removal' of chicken gizzards, surgical waste and rubber 'tumours'. If nothing is removed why do you go through the operating routine in the first place?

filippo lippi

20th December 2007, 06:23 AM

vbloke

20th December 2007, 08:59 AM

And many more are not....

We could ask VBloke how much medical training he got.
Aha.

I can tell you without opening my textbooks.

None. I am a qualified homeopath and have no medical training at all. There was none required for the course and none taught during the course.

Fortunately, I have a cousin who is a doctor who was able to give me all the medical knowledge I needed when I asked him about certain homeopathic remedies. Most of the time, his answer was raucous laughter.

chillzero

20th December 2007, 09:28 AM

Hi all

Hi. Quick note for you. Down there in this post, at the bottom right.... 'Quote' and the 'Multiquote' function. Makes everyone's job easier.

For those who are slandering alternative therapies I would strongly hope you have tried alternative thearpies and are talking from first hand experiance because I have had the medical treatment so have many of my clients so I can comment there from that point of view. If you have not experianced then you really don't have an understanding of what you are arguing against.

You shouldn't make such assumptions. You are incorrect. I, as an example, used to be a healer, working with massage, reflexology, aromatherapy... all the way through to reiki, energy healing, and working with spirit guides and visualisation.

Lastly what is this forum meant to accomplish those that came here believers are still believers. Those who came here sceptic are still sceptic. All that's happened is people are now insulting each other and what they believe. and we have got no more closer to a decision on either side when we did when we started.

Again - an incorrect assumption. Some people actually manage to come with open minds, or take on board information provided to them, and weigh the evidences up to draw their own conclusions. Yes, some people will act as if they already know what is right, and when they do not find converts, or have their opinion questioned resort to insults and attacks - that's human nature. However, life, you may find at some point, is not simply clear cut black and white. We will only come closer to a 'decision' when both sides can stay calm and respond to points that are raised, instead of becoming defensive and petulant. It is only recently that we have found a few members willing to stay and discuss their beliefs - e.g. lara123 - instead of having a hissy fit at perceived insults when questioned about something and running off into the sunset yelling personal attacks as they go.

Lastly for the person who made the cheeky comment about me being busy over the last couple of months. I have been thank you for noticing. Obviously something is going right if clients are still coming to me ;D

Love and Light Always
Gary Mannion

I'm glad you find it amusing that your business is doing well despite the fact that what you are doing does not hold up to scientific scrutiny. I'm glad you can laugh that people still come to see you - which does not equate evidence, by the way. I wonder if you can keep a smile on your face should someone not seek medical attention for a tumour they believe you have treated (you admit yourself that you do not undertake this in conjunction with medical monitoring, testing or approval).

Thanks to the media, and books like "The Cures They Don't Want You to Know About" distrust of the medical profession, and particularly of drastic and uncomfortable treatments like chemotherapy is rife in the public mind. As a healer, I know many people who preferred to take the word of an unqualified, but friendly and patient 'healer' over anyone in the medical profession. The victims of illness are generally not qualified to know better, and may be desperate to find someone that treats them as an individual with pain and feelings, rather than one case in many in a ward or GP surgery. That doesn't mean that the treatments they go for are valid.

FarSideOfTheMoon

20th December 2007, 11:34 AM

Firstly the person who asked me to produce tumors. I don't cut the skin and I make that very clear, hence I can't produce a tumour from the body. This is not the way I work on cancer (also I do not claim to have cured cancer which I also make very clear in my talks) I have had clients whose cancers have dissapeared since seeing me (even terminal cancers) however becauser it was not done under lab conditions I do not claim that the Psychic Surgery has cured it. You are free to draw what conclusions you want from that

I conclude you had nothing to do with the cancer disappearing, and are also aware it is illegal to make claims around curing cancer.

JonDonnis

20th December 2007, 12:21 PM

Since we now have a photo of Gary Mannion performing, I have added a short piece written by Julia to my site
http://badpsychics.com/thefraudfiles/modules/news/article.php?storyid=626
I have included plenty of links at the bottom to videos showing how psychic surgery is performed, as well as a look at other fraudulent practitioners.

Gary you have made a big mistake, you are a young man, and instead of using your interest in magic to give yourself an honest career, you have decided to go down a very very dangerous route.

You have workshops
http://www.divinemessengers.com/discovering_your_psychic_gifts.htm
You are making money from fraudulent activities.

Your dream of being famous is gonna come true, and just like Craig Shell.......

You WILL be stopped
You WILL end up in prison.

bindeweede

20th December 2007, 05:46 PM

From "Winter Happenings"

Indigo Children Feb 11th Gary Mannion

Back by popular demand! Gary's last 4 talks all sold out well in advance so book early.
Everything you need to know about Indigo Children What Indigos are. When they first started to enter the earth plane. How they are different from everyone else. How to tell if someone is an Indigo. why so many are being classed as ADHD or ADD. Why drugs like Ritalin are bad for them. How they are linked with the ascension in 2012. Techniques that can be used instead of drugs. This and much more - a fascinating evening.

I don't think I will be going, but here's another useful tip from the same booklet.

"If you feel you need an energy boost, hold garnet for half an hour or carry it with you. It cleanses the blood so it will help you get rid of all those festive toxins roo!"

My bold. I wonder how that works, then........?

Julia

20th December 2007, 09:27 PM

Well, that little nugget of information could save the NHS a fortune. Forget about those expensive medicines for blood disorders, just issue patients with a cheap semi-precious stone!

Seriously though, it's enough to make you weep. The fact that people are making fortunes out of the 'healing crystals' baloney speaks volumes about the need for better science education and classes in logical thinking. >:-)

GaryMannion

20th December 2007, 10:45 PM

The things I have listed I have done for more then 4 months some of these had already been listed for more then four months the others I have done just not come out publicly till recently!

I would like to make it clear to everyone again that I do not cut skin I am sorry if that is how the picture looks it is the one the magazine chose to go with. However if you read the article it clearly state the surgery is non invasive. I do not cut skin.

Again I have made it clear that I have nothing to hide from science and am open to tests.

I always suggest clients to go back to doctors and to have medical tests which is how we know the cancers e.t.c have gone in the first place and I again do not state I have cured cancer (I am aware it is a crime to state so) so I do not state so.

For the person at Bad Psychics I am actually quite empressed by the page on your site. As I know some of the people on your site and where as I do agree there are 1 or 2 on there that I persoanlly think are fake I personally think a lot are not. However please rephrase it as I don't pull things out from the body (not even chicken guts) and I am usless at magic tricks.

Also if your going to put some bad quotes about me why not include some of the testamonials that can be found on my site.

JonDonnis

20th December 2007, 11:32 PM

For the person at Bad Psychics I am actually quite empressed by the page on your site. As I know some of the people on your site and where as I do agree there are 1 or 2 on there that I persoanlly think are fake I personally think a lot are not. However please rephrase it as I don't pull things out from the body (not even chicken guts) and I am usless at magic tricks.

Also if your going to put some bad quotes about me why not include some of the testamonials that can be found on my site.

Gary, you really need to be worrying right now.
Seriously mate, you are 19 years old, you can go out there get a real job, and lead an honourable life.

Do not go down this route, for you will fail, and you will end up in prison.
You are bang top of the list now mate, no joke.

We will be all over you like a rash, from now on every show you do, we will be there.
Every turn you make, we will be there.
If you take a single penny without telling the taxman, we will know.
And the SECOND that April 2008 comes, and the new laws are in, we will come after you first.
We will be going to trading standards with any evidence we get.

You are a FRAUD, a conmen, a snakeoil salesman, you are a disgraceful human being preying on the vunerable for your own greed.

If you do not stop what you are doing right now, you will end up in prison, i promise you.

This is not a game we are playing here, you are doing bad things to vunerable people, and you will be exposed and you will be stopped.

I am giving you the chance here to stop, make a change in your life, get a real job, be a decent person, but if you carry on you will only have yourself to blame when you are faced with prison food.

FarSideOfTheMoon

20th December 2007, 11:44 PM

Julia

20th December 2007, 11:53 PM

The most disturbing thing that will happen in 2012 is that I'll celebrate my 52nd birthday. :undecided:

And the reason why we don't quote testimonials, Gary, is that they are completely worthless.

FarSideOfTheMoon

21st December 2007, 12:03 AM

2012 ... I'll be 40, fancy a joint birthday party?

We might as well, cos we are all going to die anyway.

bindeweede

21st December 2007, 12:05 AM

A few more useful seasonal tips from Phillip Permutt, the crystal man.

"Well, amethyst clears the air. An Amethyst geode (also known as a cathedral or cave) placed in a living room or dining room will help to clear and energise the air."

"Calcite is calming................Blue calcite works on the mind to ease any worries. Whilst the green variety will help calm your emotions and feelings, stellar beam calcite (or golden, yellow and orange calcite) produces that blissful feeling that gives a spiritual tranquility to both you and those around you."

"Apache tears help to release deep seated emotions..."

"Titanium quartz balances your energy. It adds colour, lifts you up and lets you down slowly."

"Now if your neighbours keep having noisy parties and not inviting you try a piece of pyrite on each window ledge. It's magical and in no time you won't even notice them."

"And after it's all over malachite will help you have a peaceful nights sleep."

I suppose it's all harmless stuff, if not to your wallet. But then he does sell these crystals as well. Of course.

http://www.isis-crystals.com/crystalhealer/

GaryMannion

21st December 2007, 12:09 AM

The Great Bymble

21st December 2007, 12:37 AM

"If you feel you need an energy boost, hold garnet for half an hour or carry it with you. It cleanses the blood so it will help you get rid of all those festive toxins roo!"

My bold. I wonder how that works, then........?
Maybe it's 'Quantum Physick'?
Isn't that a fraudulent claim,or is there supporting evidence available ?
Well, that little nugget of information could save the NHS a fortune. Forget about those expensive medicines for blood disorders, just issue patients with a cheap semi-precious stone!
It cost a considerable amount of money to clear my blood-borne virus(HCV),as I had to undergo what was essentially a form of chemotherapy(with all the associated side effects).
A couple of rocks and a bag of dried chicken bones would have kept down the budget considerably,plus I could have knocked up a nourishing gruel when peckish...
I just hope that no-one takes such drivel seriously; therapy isn't offered to everyone,and some choose to opt out of what can be a painful and sometimes futile process,It saddens me to think that someone out there may make a decision about treatment after being influenced by such spurious claims.

JonDonnis

21st December 2007, 12:57 AM

Here is a challenge.
If you can show Julia you are the real deal, if you can convince her you are genuine, I willgive you my website!
Yep the lot.
You can have BadPsychics.com to do with as you please.
You can forward it to your own sites, forward it to a charity site.
Or delete it all.

What do you say?

You claim you have helped people and you are the real deal, well how about you prove it.

Oh and if you fail, you promise to never practise any kind of psychic act for money again?

Sounds fair IF you are the real deal dont you think

MischiefMonkey

21st December 2007, 01:04 AM

Yet you constantly have testamonials from people who have something bad to say about people.

If I found people were not benifitiing from the Psychic Surgery I would not do it, As for charging. If you want to provide me with a regular salary I would happily do it for free as I want to do a job that helps people.

Julia is there an email address I can contact you on. I completely understand why you may not believe this and I would like to take the chance to change your opinion.

It isn't about charging. I don't mind my vet charging me money.

It's about providing the product or service someone has paid you to. If you claim to be able to alleviate a condition you have to have real evidence to back this up, not just 'testimonials'. Otherwise the first time you fail and a customer reports you, you will fall foul of the law.

My vet hasn't cured my cat's problem. She explained the risks and she can prove that in over 80% of similar cases the treatment she provided for a cat in mine's condition will improve. She has her own statistics and those of thousands of other vets to back up her claims. The use of IV fluids for a 12 hour period before anesthesia has been proved to improve the chances of a good outcome in cats with advanced CRF. The extraction of teeth and administration of antibiotics have been proved to cure dental abscesses in the vast majority of cases. Felimazole has been proved to treat an overactive thyroid in cats. Hill's k/d food has been proved to prolong life in cats with CRF. Vitamin injections and steroids have been proved to improve appetite and quality of life in cats with CRF.

Despite the most recent treatment my cat is still anorexic. He is still going to die. But I can not complain to Trading Standards because the weight of evidence is with the vet. She did not make a single claim that she could not back up with inarguable evidence. Not that I would complain, Sue and Charles have given my cat two good quality extra years using proven treatments.

Can you say the same about your practice? Can you prove your claims? Is your treatment backed up by clinical trials? Are you basing your treatments on peer reviewed best practices for that illness? If not you should be very worried by the coming changes in the law as you will be covered by the same trading standards that covers everyone else providing goods and services.

The other point raised was tax. If you are charging anything for your service you need to complete your self assessment. It is a complete chore but all of us who step outside PAYE have to do it. If you aren't paying your tax you could be in for a whole world of trouble.

I have known a few psychics who claim benefit while charging for their 'services' and not declaring it. I certainly hope you don't.

bindeweede

21st December 2007, 01:07 AM

...
I just hope that no-one takes such drivel seriously; therapy isn't offered to everyone,and some choose to opt out of what can be a painful and sometimes futile process,It saddens me to think that someone out there may make a decision about treatment after being influenced by such spurious claims.

Bymble

On p.9 of the leaflet I picked up yesterday, Permutt's book "The Crystal Healer" is reviewed by "Prediction" magazine.

"This is an excellent all round guide for anyone interested in crystal healing. It gives you an easy to follow introduction to healing including preparation, meditation, crystal energy and making elixirs. There's a huge directory of 250 crystals detailing where each individual stone comes from, what physical and emotional/spiritual healing properties it has plus it's (sic) astrological and chakra associations. The directory is organised by colour and there is also a handy index at the back to look up specific stones.

On top of that you get crystal remedies for 250 common ailments and afflictions from sea sickness and insomnia to back pain and asthma. Terrific."

I imagine there will be some people who take it seriously.

The Great Bymble

21st December 2007, 02:44 AM

bindeweede
At the time that I was diagnosed I was very much 'into' such things as crystals(I still have a large collection gathering dust),but I didn't ever consider that there was any viable alternative to mainstream medicine,simply the option of 'take it or leave it' as regarding therapy.
Perhaps a more apposite statement would be that I hope that no-one with HCV factors in the purported benefits of crystals when making a decision about therapy,although the odds are such that somebody probably will.

GaryMannion

21st December 2007, 02:56 AM

MischiefMonkey

21st December 2007, 03:04 AM

A lot of these remedies especially with crystals is not to replace medical treatment but to work along side it.

I would happily see Julia and see what I can do to help. However if she felt no benifit I would not stop as another thing I make perfectly clear is I can't heal everyone. I have aroundan 85% success rate with people wither finding improvment or completely better (the reasons why you can draw your own conclusions). There can be 101 reasons why that 15% did not benefit just let not everyone gets the results they would like from medical science.

Can you explicitly define 'success'?

With a tumour, it would be a reduction in tumor size.
CRF (human or cat) would be an improvement in kidney function.
Heart Disease would be a reduction of arterial furring and improved cardio-vascular function.

Etc, etc, I could go on.

What evidence do you have that patients receiving your treatment along side conventional treatment do better than conventional treatment alone?

bindeweede

21st December 2007, 03:06 AM

Gary,
Can you explain how crystals work along side real medicine?

Can you also answer my question about where and for how long you studied hypnotherapy?

ZERO

21st December 2007, 09:32 AM

crystals(I still have a large collection gathering dust)
Enjoy them for what they are. Geological marvels formed by slowly cooling magma. No more, no less.O0

Cuddles

21st December 2007, 11:26 AM

I would like to make it clear to everyone again that I do not cut skin I am sorry if that is how the picture looks it is the one the magazine chose to go with. However if you read the article it clearly state the surgery is non invasive. I do not cut skin.

Yes, we know. In fact, you don't do anything at all. That's the whole problem. Which means that not only are you a fraud, you're not even a very good one. At least the competent frauds actually fake doing surgery, but you don't even bother with that.

Ryansson

21st December 2007, 12:22 PM

Hi Gary,
If as you say you do not cut the skin, why then is it necessary for you to cover one hand with the other? Am sure you can see yourself that you adopt the classic posture omitting vew with one hand from what is going on with the other, one that has been used by many debunked psychic healers/surgeons.

Btw thanks for coming along to explain what you do, that on it's own takes guts, I just sincerely hope you are not getting in above your head here Gary.

Also hi to everyone, it's my first post and great to be part of the forum:smiley:

Julia

21st December 2007, 01:51 PM

Gary,

I'm not sure what you mean about the possibility of me 'feeling no benefit' from the type of treatment you offer as I haven't mentioned any health problems. My main concern is your use of psychic surgery, and if you read the BadPsychics article carefully you'll see that I make it clear that you DON'T follow the example of the Filipino psychic surgeons by claiming to physically remove tumours. The photo of you in action also clearly shows that the patient is fully clothed, there is no incision and no 'blood'. I also find it rather disturbing that your workshops include information about how psychic surgery works when there is absolutely no empirical evidence that it does.

I'd also like to point out that since testimonials unsupported by medical/scientific evidence are of absolutely no value, sceptics do not use them to disprove claims of psychic abilities. What we require is solid evidence. Even the most outrageously bogus psychic surgeons, faith healers and alternative medical practitioners have had no difficulty in producing stacks of testimonials from people desperate enough to believe in them.

If it's at all possible I'd be interested in setting up a meeting between yourself and an equally sceptical person living closer to St Albans - more about this later.

Jocky

21st December 2007, 03:49 PM

Secondly the person who mentioned about blind test please give me more details

Gary,

I think you may be referring to me. I wrote:

any trial of a proposed treatment must be based on an objective protocol ("it is a fair test"), and the implementation must be unbiased ("they don't intentionally try and prove it wrong"). Nobody will disagree with that.

The usual way of conducting a fair trial, which measures results in an objective and reproducible manner, is to use placebo controls.

The usual way to ensure that the personal prejudices of those involved do not effect the outcome is to ensure that the trial is double blinded.

Are you familiar with these ideas?

I deduce from your response that you do not know what I mean by "placebo controlled" and "double blind".

Here (http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/info/glossary) is a quick reference source which will explain those terms.

Would you consider a trial based on these principles?

GaryMannion

21st December 2007, 05:30 PM

for the person who enquired about crystals, I'm afraid my knowledge on crystals is quite limited. You would bve best suited to speak to a place like Isis Crystals as I would not like to give you any wrong information

I would like to makee it clear that I know Psychic Surgery works and so do my clients who have had success because of it. (Please be aware some of my clients have been under the medical profession for years and seen no benefit, yet after seeing me they become well. sounds like a bit more then just sheer luck of placebo effect). However because of the way the law is I cannot come out and say I have cured anyone it is illegal for anyone to do that unless it has been done through scientific testing e.t.c. Which I havn't done because me and my clients havn't needed to as they are just happy to be well. However I am willing to undergo tests even for my benfit to gain a deeper understanding of how it is working physically. I also fully believe in Homeopathy however I think it would be best to allow someone who is a homeopath to talk about that subject as I again don't want to give wrong information (which I feel has happened a lot on this forum from both sides of the argument).

Julia I would be happy to see your friend in St Albans and see how I can help. If you private message me we will make arrangments.

Jocky the idea of the tests seem fair enough.

For the person who asked about hypnosis. I have done various courses over the years to do with Hypnosis (I don't think any of them have any big affilialion) and as you have stated Hypnosis is not regulated by any govermental body. However I only use hypnosis for past life regression. Other problems I would use Psychic Surgery. However am considering doing another course with the college of Hypnotheapy in London in the new year yet don't think I will be working to much with hypnosis.

Lastly thank you to everyone who has been private messaging me with your kind words and comments. Especially those who I have treated in the past and have has success. I also completely understand why some of you chose not to post on here and am not offended in the slightest

If someone has made a comment I have not replied to I am very sorry I am not avoiding your question. Please post it again and I will answer it as best I can

SorryImPsychic

21st December 2007, 07:13 PM

These operations, which are completely safe and painless, are non-evasive, and require no surgical instruments, or removal of clothing.

I don't know if this has already been pointed out to you but the correct expression for this for this type of "surgery" is NON-INVASIVE as in the body is not 'invaded' by surgical instruments etc.

Muttley

21st December 2007, 08:10 PM

......the correct expression for this for this type of "surgery" is NON-INVASIVE as in the body is not 'invaded' by surgical instruments etc.

You haven't read the beginning of this thread, have you? ???

bobdezon

21st December 2007, 08:12 PM

lol O0

bindeweede

21st December 2007, 08:22 PM

However am considering doing another course with the college of Hypnotheapy in London in the new year yet don't think I will be working to much with hypnosis.

Gary

You have me confused here. This is the Wikipedia definition of hypnotherapy..

Hypnotherapy is therapy that is undertaken with a subject in hypnosis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnosis).
The word "hypnosis" is an abbreviation of James Braid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Braid)'s (1843) term "neuro-hypnotism", meaning "sleep of the nervous system".
A person who is hypnotized displays certain unusual characteristics and propensities, compared with a non-hypnotized subject, most notably hyper-suggestibility, which some authorities have considered a sine qua non (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sine_qua_non) of hypnosis. For example, Clark L. Hull (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_L._Hull), probably the first major empirical researcher in the field, wrote,
If a subject after submitting to the hypnotic procedure shows no genuine increase in susceptibility to any suggestions whatever, there seems no point in calling him hypnotised [...] (Hull, Hypnosis & Suggestion, 1933: 392) Hypnotherapy is often applied in order to modify a subject's behavior, emotional content, and attitudes, as well as a wide range of conditions including dysfunctional habits, anxiety, stress-related illness, pain management, and personal development.

I don't understand how a hypnotherapy course can not involve hypnosis. Could you clarify for me please?