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Job losses pressure Flaherty to open stimulus taps further

STEVEN CHASE

From Friday's Globe and Mail

Latest comment posted at 6:23 PM EST 05/02/09

Finance Minister 'open to the possibility of doing more' ...Read the full article

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  1. reason passion from Canada writes: Fatten the stimulus? It's already voraciously devouring our tax dollars and taking up at least two seats on any plane without any assurance it's going to tip the scales in anyone's favour. Is this really the time to pile more weight on the shoulders of taxpayers? Governments everywhere are racing to replace the American sub-prime real estate bubble that caused all of this with an infrastructure and renovation bubble – which is as much a false economy as the real estate and high tech bubbles that preceded it. Time to shed the burden of the past and move on to an economy that actually rewards those who create something of value, rather than those who get fat sit around doing nothing.
  2. Winston Smith from Canada writes: More pork?
  3. Mike Sharp from Victoria, Canada writes:

    Way to go, Clinton.
  4. J R from Vancouver, Canada writes: Don't give any money to Nortel.
  5. In Solidarity from Motown a little bit south, Canada writes: How about they dip into the $50 plus billion in the Canadian taxpayer funded E.I. ? After all, it is OUR MONEY! Oh. yeah, the little leprechaun is set for life just like the rest of our useless elected MP's.
  6. J Law from Canada writes: What would the Liberals do in this situation? I guess we will have to ask Danny.
  7. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes:
    ENOUGH with the wasting of our money already!

    The first $40B will be counter-productive as it is, taking money AWAY from job creation in order to fund less efficient, government-funded job creation.

    Government spending requires taxes, and taxes mean taking money AWAY from industry and that means FEWER jobs. Every job created by government stimulus is more than 1 job LOST from private industry. At best the hope is to create 1 job now at the expense of 2 jobs lost in the future, but even that is in doubt.

    Government deficit spending needs to be financed which means more of the available pool of capital is going to finance government rather than financing industry. Basically this means the government running a deficit will tighten credit markets, exactly what is causing so many of the layoffs in the first place.

    We're ruining our economy enough as it is with the misguided $40B stimulus package. Spending more will only ruin things even worse!
  8. jack sprat from Canada writes: Wow. Its unbelievable. He obviously thinks he has a printing machine.

    Norm
  9. Voiceoftheelder lee from Canada writes: So real passion appearsto want us to go back 5 centuries and cobble sshoes and spin yarn. You know, producing things of value. No time for writing or the arts. Forget law and security. Don't teach or learn. Just produce things of value.

    That's how primitive some of these posters are. Next he'll be afraid to go outdoors in case of a dinosaur infestation.
  10. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: In Solidarity from Motown a little bit south, Canada writes: 'How about they dip into the $50 plus billion in the Canadian taxpayer funded E.I.'

    There is no '$50B EI surplus', it's been spent. Both the current Conservative government and the previous Liberal government have used E.I. as a tax and dumped revenue into general revenue. The $50B figure is imaginary, it's a 'what might have been' if the money hadn't been spent all along.
  11. Marcus L from Canada writes: We don't need more spending. We need the existing budget spending commitments to get out the door. Like tomorrow, literally.
  12. Steve I'm Not an Alberta Redneck from Calgary, Canada writes: Every penny should go towards keeping the middle class and poor eating with a roof over their head. Tax breaks and giveaways to the CON's wealthy benefactors will come back to haunt us as they use these funds to buy safe government paper while riding out the storm. Then they'll want to dictate terms in a few years.
  13. Sean Kelly from Milton, Canada writes:

    'Way to go, Clinton.'

    Do you ever tire of being so bitter and blindly partisan, Mikey boy?

    Cheer up. You live in one of the nicest areas in Canada. It's 7C in Victoria. Go out, get some air.
  14. Voiceoftheelder lee from Canada writes: Tony you're another Neanderthal thinker. If you can get your knuckles off the ground for long enough perhaps you might consider that gov't exist to provide a fair arena for capital activity. You want to give all the reward to the heavyweight champions and completely overlook the majority of us that share the struggle. I'd rather work in an atmosphere of law and rules than your survival of the loudest and strongest.
  15. North Star from Canada writes: Flaherty has zero credibility left and is merely a talking head for Harper; any number Flaherty states ends up being meaningless and likely to be much worse.

    Harper cannot be trusted.
  16. C K from Canada writes: Stimulus... does the economy need stimulus? What happened with the stimulus of nearly free credit given to everyone and their dogs? Oh... it created the bubble that has just burst. If you look down south - they had huge prosperity cheques mailed out to American familiies early last year which was supposed to act as a stimulus... followed by bailing out bankrupt banks... soon to be followed by the new Obama stimulus. Just keep stimulating I guess. I remember in science class we would take a probe and poke a worm sitting on an electrical panel to measure its reaction to the stimulus. Eventually the worm would get tired and wouldn't react to us poking it... no matter how much we stimulated. Just a thought... perhaps the economy will no longer function without STIMULUS after all of this.
  17. In Solidarity from Motown a little bit south, Canada writes: Tony...Now I'm really pissed. I thought that $ still belonged to the people who fund it.
  18. reason passion from Canada writes: Voice of the elder lee - writing, the arts, law and security are things of value, though lawyers often have an inflated sense of the value of their labours and get too big a share of our GDP for what they contribute. Small and medium size business gets overlooked in this stimulus package, though they create far more value and wealth in our world than does any financial adviser, investment banker, or speculator. The latter are all about pumping up the perceived value of things that have little or none. They are the people who've robbed the rest of us blind and are being rewarded with ever more taxpayer largess.
  19. Kerry H from Ordinary, Canada writes: Its so nice to have the liberals running the government again..
    One has to wonder just how far Harper is willing to bend over for Iggy.. to stay in power..
  20. Had Enough from Canada writes: I have a message for any Tory who continues to support Harper and Flaherty as they abandon Conservative economic principles.

    IT'S YOUR FAULT.

    You've shown them with your response to the budget that they don't have to worry about your support. That they can spend spend spend to try to cover up their mistakes and they will not lose your vote. You are an enabler, making excuses for men who don't deserve your loyalty.

    Hold them to account if you want this to stop.
  21. Norm Jom from Canada writes: 'Finance Minister Jim Flaherty said he's open to providing more stimulus spending for Canada's faltering economy after the Official Opposition Liberals warned Thursday that the deepening downturn could render the $40-billion rescue package tabled last week insufficient.'

    ---------------------

    In other words it just clicked in with the conservatives that the recession is indeed real an that the stimulus package they came out with wasn't spending in the right areas.

    Gotta love folks that wait until the hurricane has hit before they evacuate. Way to go Harper and congratulations on coming to a reality that most people already saw some time ago.
  22. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: Voiceoftheelder lee from Canada writes: 'No time for writing or the arts.'

    Things like arts are one of the first things most people tend to cut out of their discretionary spending. Governments jacking up spending mean higher taxes (either now or in the future) and that means less money in peoples pockets. Since essentials can't be cut, less money in peoples pocket means less discretionary spending and that means less money for the arts.

    Governments don't have money of their own, they can't GIVE money to any one or any organization, only transfer it (minus overhead) from one group to another.

    In this case they're transfer it from ordinary taxpayers to construction companies... with a LOT of overhead and almost certainly rampant abuse and waste.
  23. Randy McClure from Canada writes: The Harper Conswervatives can't do anything right. You just can't trust them.
  24. Stan L from Canada writes: ...how's about Flaherty taking a pill and seeing what this round of stimulus is doing before he sets off on a spending spree. Is it too much to ask that he researches a little before he acts?
  25. Eric Blair from Canada writes: Rather than spending more why not spend less. The government could start by not attending any Climate Change Conferences because that is the biggest waste of money going. They have no intention of doing anything but they send huge delegations, fly first class, and stay in the absolute best accomodations.

    Travel and other expenses (including staffing) can save billions in they are seriously managed. The federal government just announced that it will not allow bureaucrats and ministers to fly first class if the trip is less than 2 hours (most large businesses use 3.5-4 hours). This tells you how much waste their is if the government is just getting around to such obvious cuts.

    We have to pay all this money back at some point. When you look at Canada's demographics, the willingness to spend like drunken sailor is bad news. We are just loading up young people and children with debt because we can't live within our means. No party will raise taxes once the economy is back to normal because they will not want to lose votes
  26. Kevin Desmoulin from TO, Canada writes: It just stands to reason, if we have one shot, lets make it good.
  27. Randy McClure from Canada writes: Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: Voiceoftheelder lee from Canada writes: 'No time for writing or the arts.' Things like arts are one of the first things most people tend to cut out of their discretionary spending. Governments jacking up spending mean higher taxes (either now or in the future) and that means less money in peoples pockets. ----------------------------------------------- Actually the problems we face in the economy -- and society for that matter -- are mostly collective action problems that can only be solved when everyone acts together, in the same direction. Taxes and government spending are there for that reason. Right now is the time to spend on rebuilding our infrastructure, investing in technologies that will make us more productive in the future, and improving the education and creativity of our workforce. It is not the time to spend money on stupid, inane and often immoral Hollywood movies. Contrarty to conservative popular opinion, the government usually CAN spend your money better than you can. We don't need tax cuts right now, we need focussed government spending on stuff that really needs to get done and that will only happen through taxes. We want Swedish social programs on an Alabama budget. Ain't gonna happen. Flaherty tried it on Ontario and the Harris/Eves Conservatives left office with a $6-Billion stink pile to clean up -- and that was during a relatively healthy economy. I do not trust the conservatives to run things in a bad economy at all. Not for a minute. They have proven that they can't do anything right. Just get rid of them.
  28. Jason Roy from Central Nova - After October 14th AKA STILL Peter MacKay Country, Canada writes: Stan L from Canada writes: ...how's about Flaherty taking a pill and seeing what this round of stimulus is doing before he sets off on a spending spree. Is it too much to ask that he researches a little before he acts?

    --------------------------------------

    Unfortunately the effects (if any) of the current stimulus in the budget probably won't be felt until 2010 - according to Dale Orr anyway...
  29. P Martin from St. John's, Canada writes: Harper is an idiot. When are people going to wake up. Nothing he has done since he has been in power is for the Canadian people - it is all about his power, his control and his tyranny.
  30. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: Voiceoftheelder lee from Canada writes: 'You want to give all the reward to the heavyweight champions and completely overlook the majority of us that share the struggle. I'd rather work in an atmosphere of law and rules than your survival of the loudest and strongest.'

    Voiceoftheelder it is absolutely BECAUSE I want a fair market for capital that I'm against this!

    When government starts giving out money for private projects it is the loudest that ALWAYS wins. It is the companies that have the best lobby groups that get the cash, the people with the most well-versed sales people that get contracts, NOT those with the most useful product or service!

    Government spending takes the power AWAY from the little guy. With the money in your pocket you have 100% say over how it is spent (ok.. maybe 50% say or less if you're married). When a government takes that money and spends it on your behalf you have only a 1 in 18M say every 2-5 years as to how your money is spent even. The rest of the time it's big corporations and lobby groups that beg and plead with the government that determine where your money goes.

    If you don't think that's true, go ask the government to fund your favourite project, whatever it may be. If you don't have the backing of big-shot lawyers and lobby groups behind you they probably won't even let you in the front door.
  31. bill johnson from Quebec, Canada writes: Try funding the research councils. Cutting science, engineering, health research is a really stupid idea, Mr Harper.
  32. Voiceoftheelder lee from Canada writes: I was talking to a financial advisor today, in order to act as an executor in a family estate. She was trying to get me to purchase some GIC's temporarily until all the funds were collected. OK perhaps good advice, but then she tells me, ' I'm one of those Baby Boomers who just wants to get everything and have it all. I just got back from Mexico and we are going to the Dominican next month. Now that the kids are finished college we decided to down size and now we have some money to enjoy. I guess the way the market and pension funds are going I'm going to have to work longer if I want to support my life style in retirement.'

    Needless to say, I didn't want to lose my lunch, so I sped up the meeting to get relief. That is why we are where we are. The business world convinced society that the ponzi scheme of continuous growth was possible. What a crock that is. It will take until these boomers are in the grave, or at least greatly reduced, before we exit this recession. All gov't can do is lower the slide to a manageable level for the next 20 years or declare war on some new enemy.

    The younger generation who has had to pay for their own university with monster debt, and buy homes and cars while delaying marriage and parenthood, are different. They want all the bells and whistles but understand debt and patience.
  33. Harper should go back to his evil lair (ASAP) from Saskatoon, Canada writes: So I guess all G&M; posters are economists or policy makers now. For one, the conservatives don't know what they're doing. Second, stimulus is necessary, it's just arguable what the best way to do it is. I support starting at the bottom and working up, but a lot of people believe in the trickle down effect and would rather start at the top. I think more people should be arguing for increased education funding as the primary mode of stimulus. This way we won't waste any money, people will be more educated, and it will keep some people out of the workforce until times improve. Third, if you all believe so much in what you say, go out and run for government or talk with your MP. If you're qualified and convincing, you'll win, and get your say. Lastly, I look forward to the liberals regaining their majority and finally being able to promote true fiscal conservatism. The minority situations should promote people working together however it always seems to lead to high spending to buy votes for short term gain. I miss Chretien and Martin of the 90's.
  34. James Chief from Victoria, Canada writes: Any estimate when we will see 20% interest rates?
  35. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    Mosquitoes and Conservatives - two things this country could do without
    ----------------

    I'll take the mosquitoes , thank-you. But its time the majority coalition start spraying for CONservatives.
  36. john s from Canada writes: I wonder why Flaherty has not lost his job?. His job performance is surely lacking.
  37. p lailey from vancouver, Canada writes: Just in case a few of the anti-CPC crowd didn't take the time to read the article before posting:

    'John McCallum, Liberal finance critic and a senior member of Michael Ignatieff's policy team, told reporters he's now worried that Ottawa may need to come up with a second stimulus package before Parliament takes a break in June.'
  38. Canadian born liberal-conservative Muslim from Ottawa, Canada writes: What the liberal media failed to address during the budget week was the hundreds of millions of dollars that was given to the Arts. But regardless, COMPLETE WASTE OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS.
  39. on the contrary you need to think my way from Canada writes: Does this guy have a clue or is he just plain stupid?
  40. s like from Canada writes: Every dollar of stimulus must either be taken from savings, borrowed abroad or the money is simply printed thus devaluing the money you do have.

    There's no free lunch as much as Jack Layton and Ignatieff would like us to believe there is. Harper doesn't believe it but he'll spend money if that's what it takes to stay in power and the other two bozos aren't any different.
  41. Maurice Nulens from YvR, Canada writes: Harper and Flathery are in over their heads. Not pleased with the way they are handling things.

    I wish Paul Martin would be our Finance Minister again

    Has anyone seen any statements or reports by the Advisory Cttee chaired by Carole Taylor? What did the blue-ribbon group recommend?
  42. J. Michael from Canada writes: Fundamentally we are living beyond our means and the market is trying to discipline us; all the stimulus package is going to do is delay this discipline that eventually will take place - 'pay now or pay later, but make no mistake, we will pay!'
  43. Ceesco Pike from KTown, Canada writes: Amazing that the flimflam critic of the NDP chimes in and says that the future growth will be 1.9% blah blah.. is a mirage... Isn't the NDP a mirage... He's right really though.. No one has the huevos to tell the lumpin Canukes the truth otherwise there'd be riots in the streets. So like the Bud Lite commercials, all the political parties are only interested in keeping the good times going. It's going to take a long time to work the excesses out of the system and during that time as the gov sees the tax revenue derived from the lumpin Canukes withering away, it will step in and force companies, like banks to do things they wouldn't ordinarily do.. You gotta love the I.O.U.S.A though!! They want to push billions into their system AND make sure that the companies that got the benefits in the first place, but that are now too big to fail, enough money to keep going ... and pay the execs............ man.... does anyone else thinks this whole thing with governments stinks? So why do we listen to them then and put faith in them? Have they ever not screwed it up?

    Less government dear readers, less government.
  44. captain canada from Canada writes: I think Flaherty is fat enough, he does not need more fattening.

    Stoopid politicians, they have not stimulated yet with one red cent, but they want to spend more, ?
    they do not even know if this stimulus will work, but what the heck, spend spend spend

    OUR MONEY,

    I think Canada needs a tax revolt, revolution, or sometihng to wake up the sheeple.

    Now they want to sell Canadian banks to foreign owners and governments, our last asset, great, we are screwed.
  45. Phineas freekinstone from Peggys crotch inlet, Canada writes: kewl .. i like it, get all the liberals decrying the new spending then back down on spending more .problem solved,Iggy stared themdown the liberals can cry.the torys meanwhile show fiscal prudence to the grassroots.Jack and Gille retire on their fat pensions
  46. Joseph T from Victoria, Canada writes: Ladies and Gentlemen. This is sheer idiocy! Absolute madness! Bottomline. People are up to their eyeballs in debt. This debt needs to be paid down first! No amount of government spending will change the fact that the average Joe in the street has maxed out his debt to service ratio. How can the average Joe consume more goods and services when he is at his limit for debt service? All these funds are going to do is to enrich the large players. The money will sit in their pockets out of fear for the future. This fear phase has to pass naturally. There is no other way out of this mess.
  47. reason passion from Canada writes: p lailey - It's our money going out the door because of America's profligacy and idiocy. They exported their toxic financial crap to dumb financiers the world over, including here. They should pay. The Liberal finance critic is right.
  48. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: Finance Minister's comments follow parliamentary budget watchdog's warning that Ottawa's projections ..............
    ------------------

    Again, Kevin Page forcing Flaherty and the Harper CONservatives to deal with FACTS ....rather than fuzzy logic. Remember in a budget update not so long ago, in a galaxy not so far away, $100 Million surplus and 5 balanced budgets ???

    CONs deal lies.
  49. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: john s from Canada writes: 'I wonder why Flaherty has not lost his job?. His job performance is surely lacking.'

    The Conservatives need a fall-guy. Running $60B plus in deficits is going to land them in the dog house BIG TIME. They know that an election call can't be too far in the distance while the Liberals are just giving them enough rope to hang themselves with. Harper is through and the next leader of the Conservatives will be handed a crushing defeat. That's Flaherty.

    After he loses Prentice takes over and tries to rebuild the party.
  50. Maurice Nulens from YvR, Canada writes: Massive Tax cuts is not going to happen. Large Scale printing of $Money is also not wise. This will lead to inflation... which is a given in about three to four years out.

    We are in a GLOBAL financial melt-down. We would have been somewhat better off had Harper not overspent tour reserves. He cut the GST for no good reason... and now further tax cuts will not be feasible.

    I hope and pray that by 2010-2011 we will be coming out of this fine mess.
  51. Keating Gun from Canada writes: Full employment is far more sensible than wasting tax dollars. Why not move to Euro-style holidays which would reduce the work year by a month, cut pay by a month, but reduce taxes as we would have full employment, which would bolster the economy and tax coffers, hence net wages would likely increase, even with an extra month of holidays.
  52. captain canada from Canada writes:
    build-up the debt now, so that when interest rates go from 1 to 15% our tax bill triples.

    i love politicians that plan.
    idiots. all of them
  53. Allan Beurk from Ottawax, Canada writes: Finally it is a pleasure to see taxpaeyrs money doled out so generously!
  54. NL_Expatriate www.nlfirst.ca from Canada writes: The Canadian confederation is a sham. It is nothing more than. Tyranny of the majority, Per Capita Colonialism, Democratic Discrimination by all of the national proxy parties of the majority ON/QU against the minority, Reverse robin hood. Steal from the poor minority and give to the vote rich majority. And those are the nice terms. Don't give us your crap about feed us please on a per capita basis NL'ians have contributed four times as much as the next nearest province. NL EP2. Equality or Exit!
  55. Percy from NL from Canada writes: I believe Flaherty is saying in the picture, 'Quickly, get Paul Martin on the phone, I need some advice as to what to do, NOW!'
  56. N N from Canada writes: Great, let's inflate the deficit further to save, what, 2000 jobs? That's it, sell our future for small short term gain.

    If these dim-witted politicians really understood, they would realize that far too many folks were living way, way beyond their means for far too long and it has simply caught up with them...buying too many cars, too many tvs, too much house, all the while piling on personal debt. Ain't nothing the politicians can do about that. Short term pain is inevitable. Learn to live with it now...so that we don't feel it alot more down the road with massive debt.
  57. The Money Ain't For Nothing from Toronto, Canada writes: What a dysfuctional government these reform clowns are. It is less than 48 hours since their budget passed in the HOC and already they are saying they don't have it right...........Williams has been right all along about this bunch.
  58. Jason Roy from Central Nova - After October 14th AKA STILL Peter MacKay Country, Canada writes: J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes: On the previous comments section (being critical of Harpo closed prematurely) thomson gary from Canada writes: It will be interesting to see if the Tories will scream about overtaxation again when some future gov't, probably Liberal, starts paying off some of this debt the Tories are ringing up. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bulls-eye Gary, you definitely get it Tough time to be a Con Supporter as the maggots fall off the gut waggon Perhaps they should start a new Party (I hear the Rhinoceros name is now available) Or perhaps the Antediluvian Party That Survived The Great Flood What a sad reflection, Canada has lost a great opportunity to build forward from the Martin Debt Retirement No Deficits Legacy. Instead we are back 18 years to the Buffoon Muldoon. ---------------------------------------- So tell us J Birch, assuming the coalition or the your hero Iggy were running things and introduced their own stimulus as originally planned, would you be expressing the same indignation over that deficit/debt and the prospect of paying it off - between bouts of bending over and asking for more? As for 'Muldoon' - operating surplus by year three and every year thereafter - turned into a budgetary deficit no thanx to the interest on the public debt racked up by Trudeau - in fact 300B of Mulroney's deficit was exactly that.
  59. Norm Jom from Canada writes: N N from Canada writes:
    If these dim-witted politicians really understood, they would realize that far too many folks were living way, way beyond their means for far too long and it has simply caught up with them...buying too many cars, too many tvs, too much house, all the while piling on personal debt. Ain't nothing the politicians can do about that. Short term pain is inevitable. Learn to live with it now...so that we don't feel it alot more down the road with massive debt.

    -------------------------

    Your understanding of the recession is to use your words dim-witted. If it was caused by people buying too much there would be plenty of employment right now and jobs wouldn't be at risk.
  60. Voiceoftheelder lee from Canada writes: I still read too much Reaganomics here. You know the quote, 'Gov't is the problem.' And of course the trickle down theory that was so successful.
    Dump the theory and appeal to common sense. We need to have a system that guarantees the basic necessities of life without killing all incentive.
    Please dont even go near denying food, shelter and healthcare for all and I don't know how that's done without gov't and taxation.

    For some reason many posters think the wealthy and middle class drive the economy. That's crap. Gov't provides the rules and laws by which the middle and upper class use their wealth to grow an economy based on the KEY ingredient the purchasing strength of the skill trades and labouring masses. If the working class is unemployed and suffering, no amount of stimulus to the wealthy or middle class in any form whatsoever will stimulate an economy. The key is to actually 'trickle up' in time of depression in order to change the reward and hope of the labouring class. Give them something to spend so that their wants can provide the demand for business to develop.

    That's why in poor times its been the socialist who has to clean up the mess of the capitalist, and take the blame for what has to be done. We are a socialist nation at heart and should survive much better than our southern neighbour because of it.

  61. kevin o'connor from Canada writes: Another cave by the gov't. Essentially the Liberals are directing economic policy in this crisis.

    Thank goodness.
  62. W Price from Canada writes: This 'stimulus' is mostly virtual. The Canadians who need and would use credit cannot get any, because there is nothing left on the table. Those who do not need credit (38% who voted Conservative in the election?) get all they want, especially when associated (above a certain level...) with corporations. 'Buying opportunities' will abound for the second group. Increased polarization of the social continuum and costs to society will make these deficits seem puny.
  63. Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes:

    Flaherty open to stimulating flatulence package?

    This country's going to hell in a hand basket.
  64. Rt. Revd. Malachy Egan from Halifax, Canada writes: Norm Jom from Canada writes: N N from Canada writes:
    If these dim-witted politicians really understood, they would realize that far too many folks were living way, way beyond their means for far too long and it has simply caught up with them...buying too many cars, too many tvs, too much house, all the while piling on personal debt. Ain't nothing the politicians can do about that. Short term pain is inevitable. Learn to live with it now...so that we don't feel it alot more down the road with massive debt.

    -------------------------

    Your understanding of the recession is to use your words dim-witted. If it was caused by people buying too much there would be plenty of employment right now and jobs wouldn't be at risk.
    __________________________________________________

    Norm Jom your rebutal is priceless! NN did not include you specifically in the dim-witted genre; however, your grasp of economics puts you somewhat lower on the scale of wits... No, actually witless, if that is still a category.
  65. reason passion from Canada writes: Voice of the elder - Your noble socialists are no different from today's neo-Cons, whether American, Russian, Chinese, European, or Canadian...It's all about bringing the 'masses' down to an egalitarian level, while the few in power reap all the rewards. There's no independent middle ground, where merit actually matters. Just a bunch of fools being duped by a few more quick whit and far more rewarded fools.
  66. scott thomas from Canada writes: Worse than Bob Rae, Flaherty is.
  67. NL_Expatriate www.nlfirst.ca from Canada writes: Where is equality among provinces?

    NL - the highest public debt load in Canada - those greedy devils on the east coast (sarcasm).

    NL - the highest unemployment in Canada - those greedy devils on the east coast (sarcasm).

    NL - the worst provincial infrastructure in the country - those greedy devils on the east coast (sarcasm).

    NL - newly signed Hebron deal alone will add approximately $8 billion to the coffers of the rest of Canada - those greedy devils on the east coast (sarcasm).

    NL - billions more flowing to the coffers of the federal government from off-shore development - those greedy devils on the east coast (sarcasm).

    NS - Harper strikes a backroom deal with NS so that only NL is affected by this most recent unilateral change to the Atlantic Accord - those unprincipled idiots (no sarcasm here).

    The new version of the NEP, created and imposed by a leader from Alberta. How ironic is that?
    EQUALITY OR EXIT!
  68. Rt. Revd. Malachy Egan from Halifax, Canada writes: Richard Roskell from Naramata, Canada writes:

    Flaherty open to stimulating flatulence package?

    This country's going to hell in a hand basket.
    _______________________________________________

    Agreed! O'Flatulence's only talent is hot gusts to the tune of Oh Canada!
  69. just today from Canada writes: Okay, so in NL it starts like this. Stephen Harper comes here for votes. Premier Williams, like a good lawyer, gets a promise in writing. Mr. Harper gets elected andcan't keep the promise. Mr. Williams like any Premier should, takes offence. The Federal reformers, instead of simply saying sorry, we've already broken a string of promises and can't fess up to this one, start to spin the nastiness aimed at NL and Premier Williams. In response, and the only way politically possible, the people of NL vote this party out as our federal representatives. Enough said, let's get on with it. These are troubled times, and in NL we still have the highest per capita debt, and a Health care system in crisis apparently in greater crisis than the rest of the country. But... the reformists in Ottawa haven't had their pound of flesh. In a time of Global, Cdn and NL economic crisis, with no forewarning, they change the rules and all Newfoundland and Labradorians will pay the greater cost - more I suspect than their fair share. This is't an issue about Mr. Williams. He didn't start this latest round. It isn't even a case of what was done, but more importantly how it was done. Very low and extremely divisive, even in the venue of Federal-Provincial politics.
  70. Not the Alliance from In my opinion, The Harper Gov't is totally Incompetent, but excel at whining that it's ALWAYS somebody else's fault. Harper's exceeded even MY lowest expectations., Canada writes: All the money Harper/Flaherty wasted in their first three years would come in pretty handy right now. And after all the spendthrift ways, they didn't even get a majority.

    Pathetic.
  71. reason passion from Canada writes: To all anit-Conservative posters: What's the matter with you? Don't you know that Stephen Harper has a degree in economics? Doesn't that give you confidence in his ability to do the right thing? In his ability to anticipate economic trends and respond accordingly? In his ability to tell Canadians exactly how things are going and to decide what we should be doing? No? No, you say?! Er...okay, I see your point.
  72. The Money Ain't For Nothing from Toronto, Canada writes: This goverment has been completely out of control since the economic statement on November 27 and I'm thinking that Williams' Anybody But Conserative campagin is about to go national
  73. jck from ontario from Canada writes: We all must remember this budget was personally approved by the Probation officer Mr Ignatieff . In fact this is really a Liberal budget thats why they backed it. To those folks in NFLD in the end Ignatieff was the one who sent you down the river. The problem Mr Williams has is he has now been had by both the Liberals and Conservatives
  74. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Flaherty, do not be fooled or pressured by Liberal shenanigans.

    Do not use my tax money for stimulus. The government should cut spending to have a balanced budget and continue to pay down the debt. And im a hard core right wing Conservative.

    .
  75. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Why do I have this image of little jimme on the potty - his mommy leaning over and asking:

    'can you do more jimme' ??
  76. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:
    Flaherty, do not be fooled or pressured by Liberal shenanigans.
    Do not use my tax money for stimulus. The government should cut spending to have a balanced budget and continue to pay down the debt. And im a hard core right wing Conservative..
    Posted 05/02/09 at 8:12 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    ===========================

    Please ....... can you let us know a little in advance when you wanna post ?

    The echo form inside that cave is deafening .........
  77. The Money Ain't For Nothing from Toronto, Canada writes: jck from ontario from Canada writes: We all must remember this budget was personally approved by the Probation officer Mr Ignatieff . In fact this is really a Liberal budget thats why they backed it. To those folks in NFLD in the end Ignatieff was the one who sent you down the river. The problem Mr Williams has is he has now been had by both the Liberals and Conservatives.

    Nothing new in that Nfld continues to get short changed by the national goverment.........Liberal, PC and now reform. But the Reform leader is aboout to get his just reward.
  78. Norm Jom from Canada writes: Rt. Revd. Malachy Egan from Halifax, Canada writes:
    Norm Jom your rebutal is priceless! NN did not include you specifically in the dim-witted genre; however, your grasp of economics puts you somewhat lower on the scale of wits... No, actually witless, if that is still a category.

    -------------------------

    Are you too suggesting that the recession is because people over spend? Amazing.
  79. garlick toast from Canada writes: Flaherty's package is fattening up with stimulation. Must be due to the rush he gets screwing the whole country.
  80. Dave Little from southern Ontario, Canada writes: You know, I might have a bit of respect for the CONservatives, if they would stop playing this shell game with the so-called stimulus money from the budget. Every dollar that goes out must have matching funds from either the province or the municipality. Well Jimmy, since you downloaded everything to the municipalities here in Ontario, they have NO G.D. money.

    Two years ago the CON's gave 1 billion dollars for the Canada Build's fund, of which one one cheque for 20 million has gone out, that is a grand total of 2 percent of the money pledged. Of the 75 Billion pledged to help the bank move mortgages off their balance sheets, not a penny has exchanged hands, because the Interest to be paid by the banks on this money is so punitive, that the Banks told Jimmy and Stevie, Thank you but no thank you in more straight forward language having something to do with where the sun don't shine.,,,,,,,,,,

    Say Jimmy how about a ................................ tax cut ................... or a ...............................tax cut or maybe even .......a..........tax cut.
  81. Enlightened Consumer from the ROC from Toronto, United States Outlying writes: Through the 80's and 90's Canada had 1 province intent on getting everything it could out of Canada. Their greed and self focus new no bounds and led the Ottawa politicians mainly the 3 Amigo's (Mulrooney, Creten & Martin)to suck increasing amounts, mainly from Ontario, out of wealth production and into Health care, Child care, Duplicate Gov't Services and distractions like Language police. And so the Poulet has come home to roost. Since that province burned through the money and didn't save it, they will at least fry with the rest of us. A small consolation but one never the less.
  82. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: OH MY GOD!

    MORE!?!?

    Somebody has got to stop this guy. He's making the worst budget in history even worse!
  83. Dave Little from The republic of Southern Ontario, Canada writes: Anybody but Harper, and anybody but IGGY.

    IGGY took less time to fold than Dion, and he even makes Harper look good, now that is really sad.
  84. G L from Thunder Bay ON., Canada writes: Mr Obama has a 800 BILLION Dollars stimulus package which is about to be passed, That's in addition to the 700 BILLION bail out package for Wall St announced earlier. for a total of approx 1.5 TRILLION DOLLARS. Some posters who have nothing better to do in their lives other than to sit at their computers 24-7, telling everyone Canada is going to hell in a hand basket. Canada's stimulus package is some 34.6 BILLION which includes a deficit brought forward.for this year and and additional 30 BILLION for 2010 Quite a difference I would say even allowing for the larger population. The only one going to you know were whether in a hand basket or otherwise is some of the posters to this site.who are continually making a general nuisance of themselves with their uneducated, and unsolicited political musings.
  85. Enlightened Consumer from the ROC from United States Outlying writes: Boning the Liberals starts next week. I predict not more than 1/4 of the money will be spent before the Liberals are challenged to a confrontation, only this time it will midlate summer, far enough into the term that the Gov. Gen will have to call an election instead of asking for an alternative and Mr. Harper guns down Iggy.
  86. Burdened Soul from Canada writes: Hate to say it, but Flaherty wouldn't understand Stimulus even if he took a whole bottle of Viagra.
  87. Peter Kells from Bytown, Canada writes: There are some who argue that what really ended the Great Depression of the 1930's was the mobilization for WWII. If they are right, maybe all we really need to do is find a good World War to join and presto-chango no more downturn.
  88. reason passion from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov - Hard right wing conservatives in this country and elsewhere accuse others of being taxers and spenders, then gain power and spend governments deep into deficit. Supporters of our current government can accuse others of pressuring Canada's cowering Conservative minority all they want. Ultimately, it is the government's job to lead, or get out of the way. This government has done neither.
  89. Jim Flatulentface from Ottawa, Canada writes: So, when does Harper, the leader of the CPC (CONSERVATIVE PORKBARRELLERS OF CANADA) appear on attempted bribery charges in the Cadman affair ????
  90. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Tough times require tough measures,

    Roll back at federal wages by 10%.
    Rollback wages for teachers and heath care professionals by the same amount.
    Cut all Federal department budgets by 20%
    Reduce corporate income tax by the same amount as listed above.
    Temporarily stop all foreign aid.
    Ban unions.
    Sell the CBC, disband the CRTC.
    Stop subsidising failing manufacturers.
    No stimulus.

    If Canada did that, we would be ok.

    .
  91. Crazy Canuck from Canada writes: All part of the plan to bring in the Amero. The US dollar will be destroyed. You can't spend your way out of a recession...or should I say depression. I hope all of you are stocking up on food and ammo.

    Cheers.
  92. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Oh, I forgot, add cancel the equalization program to the list.

    .
  93. john near lake ontario from Canada writes:
    THIS ARTICLE IS UNDER THE HEADING ' POLITICS '

    WHAT ELSE NEEDS TO BE SAID!
  94. Chris O'Regan from Canada writes: Can we please get rid of fatty already?
  95. garlick toast from Canada writes: Yup, we need a war. How about a war on pollution or litter or poverty or illiteracy. The war on apathy was canceled because nobody bothered to show up. What we really need is a good old invasion by off-planet aliens. Talley-ho, up the rebels rah, rah, rah
  96. k Hboone from Canada writes: not much of this money is going to see the light of day. the tories are just talking big to shut the opposition up.thank goodness.the opposition are looking like idiots as usual telling the govt that they should spend , no wait spend less, no wait...
    the west will do ok when oil and other commodities go up in a year or two. ontario is in a bad spot because of their dependence on US consumers. Obama has no idea what he is doing and the US is going to tank badly. Obama was on tv saying retrofitting houses in the US will create jobs and help wean the US off of saudi oil- terrible idea when compared to McCains idea to build 21 nuclear power plants to create jobs and reduce oil use.
  97. The Money Ain't For Nothing from Toronto, Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Tough times require tough measures,

    Roll back at federal wages by 10%.
    Rollback wages for teachers and heath care professionals by the same amount.
    Cut all Federal department budgets by 20%
    Reduce corporate income tax by the same amount as listed above.
    Temporarily stop all foreign aid.
    Ban unions.
    Sell the CBC, disband the CRTC.
    Stop subsidising failing manufacturers.
    No stimulus.

    If Canada did that, we would be ok.

    You need to only add protectionist trade barriers and we will be ok if it is a depression that we wish for.
  98. The Centrist from Canada writes: Had the stimulus package been passed last year, we wouldn't be here. Instead, because of the delay caused by the Harper Conservative governments partisanship and pettiness, we are here.

    The power hungry coalition was no better-the point is Harper made a mistake.

    Unfortunately, all Canadians are paying for it.
  99. Fred Johnson from Canada writes: Why stop at 50 or $60 billion? If 40 billion will create 120,000 jobs, lets spend 140 billion and REALLY make a dent in unemployment! Who cares about how it will be paid back? That's a problem for 5 years into the future, and no one is interested in what that looks like when things look so grim now. Minority Parliaments: get used to big spending by everyone, for everyone. Only one thing: The Tax Collector is Coming.
  100. wayne arthur from Canada writes: Japan, early 1990's.

    They lowered interest rates to near zero, had several infrastructure spending programs with bridges to nowhere. They went from having a large govt surplus to having a huge govt debt and they have still had nearly 2 decades of 1 -2 % GDP growth.

    This happened after too much loose credit and the bursting of a real estate bubble.

    Sound familiar?
  101. Percy from NL from Canada writes: Does this mean this jackass is going to come after the teat of the province with the greatest public debt in Canada again?
  102. Joe Citizen from Everytown, Canada writes: .... MORE IMPORTANTLY ....

    ..... IS JIM FLAHERTY OPEN TO RESIGNING ?

    JIMBO, YOU ARE A COMPLETE AND UTTER FAILURE ..... ALWAYS HAVE BEEN .... ALWAYS WILL BE. YOU ARE A LOSER BAGMAN FOR NEO-CON FAILURES LIKE MIKE HARRIS AND NOW STEPHEN HARPER. ARE YOU ARE LOSER-MAGNET ? ..... BECAUSE YOU SURE ARE ATTRACTED TO THEM.

    I WILL TELL WHAT HAS FATTENED. MIKE HARRIS' WASTE-LINE. DID YOU HELP WITH THAT TOO ?
  103. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Fred Johnson wrote: Why stop at 50 or $60 billion? If 40 billion will create 120,000 jobs, lets spend 140 billion and REALLY make a dent in unemployment!

    Fred, you are absolutely right, if this sick economic theory worked, Canada should spend a 5 Trillion stimulus and we could all live in Liberal nirvana land.

    .
  104. S H from Texas, United States writes: Mr. Kells, you speak the truth as everyone here of a mature age knows - the depression was ended by ww2 productivity and nothing more. In the US, it was not make work projects or whatever pie sky proposed now by economic academics without real world business experience. Pass a new stimulus now, try to reinflate the debt credit scene with consumers tapped out. The problem in most of the US, and the world, but not so much where I live, is not liquidity but insolvency. Even the former treasury secretary about a month ago publically stated people had been using credit for necessities, not wants. A pleasant side thought is a day in the past I drove west from Thunder Bay and saw one of the prettiest girls in the world in Kakkabecca Falls (sp?). WW2,3 scenarios are a concern now. They can give people money, inject, stimulate, bs, increasing velocity, the deflate comes again at the end. They want inflation now which we didn't have or need for a century or two until the central bank racket got juiced up. Get rid of the gold back, add debt, fiat money, offshore jobs, service baloney, stagnant wages, cover the six percent nut guaranteed to every Fed member, the common man on a slave ship. I still wonder if it is all really happening, because where we live, all is ok, but the news feeds arrive. Good luck to Canadians, watch out for yourselves, sorry for the trouble caused by those in NY and DC. Be glad we are between you and others south; things are crumbling and could be a flashpoint for potential war economy. A Mexican General was tortured and killed this week, and some think the SPP NAU is a good idea. A good idea is watch out for yourself while you can.
  105. NL_Expatriate www.nlfirst.ca from Canada writes: Don't you get it yet? Efford, Manning, Liberal, or Conservative whatever it doesn't matter what national party you elect MP's to they are all the same when you belong to a minority prov in this phoney federation. All of the national parties have to work within the same tyranny of the majority system where in order to win power you need to be on the good side of the majority and the majority in this confederation live in Ontario and Quebec. 66% to be exact and further to that some 50%of the canadian population live in the urban cities none of which count from our province. You must be delusional if you think any national party will go to bat for 1.5% of the population and that includes the MP's you elect to those same national parties. Sure we don't even comprise the margin of error in the polls which is usually 3%. It isn't the national parties we need to change as we have seen it is the political system of Democratic Discrimination against the minority provinces by all of the national parties in favor of vote buying in the majority provinces. You could be playing this game till the cows come home of electing one or the other national proxy parties for ON/QU and expecting a different result it is time to stop the insanity. These are all symptoms the real root cause of our place in confederation is our lack of equality. If you really want to send a message to the confederation and have your elected MP's stand up for you tell them to cross the floor and stand up as Newfoundland and Labrador First MP's. As for defeating the budget it can only be done with the Liberals or in the Senate that is assuming Iggy doesn't tell the Liberal senators to pass it Like Dion did. So much for sober second thought. The senate is nothing but an extension of the systemically flawed HOC Per Capita Colonialism.

    EQUALITY OR EXIT!
  106. Kevin S from Kelowna, Canada writes: If we wanted to spend money we didn't have we would have voted for a liberal government. Come on Jim - get your head on straight! Let the recession run its course. We need to clear out the excesses induced by years of easy money.
  107. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    The Federal Government should follow Alberta’s lead and reduce spending to have a balanced budget.

    Its no wonder why Canada is in deep debt and struggling in this downturn, too much Liberal intervention. Luckily in Alberta Liberals have no say or influence whatsoever.

    .
  108. Yakatarina Verbosovich from asmalldyingProvincialtowninSWOnt, Canada writes: I agree that we need to 'double-up' on our stimulus efforts here .... and 'fast'!

    The current stimulus package will prove grossly impotent within 6 months. Do more now and be heros!

    Private pension plan investments are going to leave retirees short handed...and up the creek...and will also nullify most's worker's dream of retiring by 65! (freedom 55 evaporated long ago.)

    Wake up MP's!

    A big chunk of the major stock losses we are seeing now internationally are the back bone our private pension funds.... this is only one example of getting hit from left field! Soon they will be cutting back on disbursements.

    The problem is, that our MP's are still trying to paint a 'nice' face on this disaster....look how naieve the Governor of the Bank of Canada has been!...all our parties are too terrified to lay it out in plain language to Canadians..

    ..get it together please!
  109. Barclay Logan from Mike Duffyville, Canada writes: When the website opened, all I could read was, 'Flaherty Open To Fattening.' Might want to re-calculate that deficit, and rent a crane.
  110. Percy from NL from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada

    Poor little Mr. Harper. We had better not blame him because he's being forced to do all this by those bad old Liberals. Their the same bad people who made him spend at record levels ever since 2006.

    Is that your version of tough Albertan accountability and responsibility? And they haven't booted you out of that province yet?
  111. Robert M from Canada writes: This article raises some interesting points: 1) What are effective stimulus measures? The following links provide some discussion of what might be effective: http://www.economy.com/mark-zandi/documents/Small%20Business_7_24_08.pdf http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/spn/2008/spn0801.pdf 2) Which of the budget measures are expected to be effective? Mr. Flaherty should explain the reasoning behind the measures. Mr. McCallum should explain why certain measures concern him. The 'consultation' process that the Harper government held in December and January was not rigorous; they came up with a gift list for the people who were invited to the meeting. This does not promote strong policy decisions. 3) People should question the soundness of projections that the Harper government produces. The November 27th Economic Update was a fiasco. Why should we expect that a hastily prepared budget is any more reliable? 4) Should Parliament and the government really take a full summer break this year? How can they roll out stimulus programs when Ottawa shuts down in July and August? This is one year where it might make sense to change the culture, and be as involved as possible in the circumstances (or they can just take the whole summer off and hope for the best).
  112. jck from ontario from Canada writes: Folks this is the Probation Officer budget. Has his seal of approval. So far not a peep from Mr Ignatieff suspect he is waiting to see how the wind blows problem is Jack and Gilles will hang Mr Ignatieff with glee while Harper sits on the side lines . The chances of the NPP and Bloc supporting the Liberals to bring down the government are 0.
  113. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Percy wrote: Poor little Mr. Harper. We had better not blame him because he's being forced to do all this by those bad old Liberals. Their the same bad people who made him spend at record levels ever since 2006.

    Is that your version of tough Albertan accountability and responsibility? And they haven't booted you out of that province yet?

    Percy, Nope im still here, Western Conservatives are blaming PM Harper for his spending as we know in the west, you cant spend yourself into prosperity.

    Support base for this government is dropping in the West.

    .
  114. Bob Dylan's Voice from Canada writes: The Liberals are lost. Spend more, your spending too much and now spend more again. Do they think no one is watching? McCallum has lost his mind.
  115. Don Quixote from The winterly Mosquito Belt, Ont., Canada writes:
    So assuming Mr. Flaherty would distributed the whittled down 40 billions, being actually only 31.8 billions to the anticipated 325000 expected unemployed people directly, and assuming that a family would need about $25000, a single person about $18000 to survive,
    the 325000 expected unemployed people could live about 4 years on the direct distribution - by that time the recession/depression probably has run it's course.

    However if the moneta is supplied as a 'trickle-down' version to infra structure improvements, and some big boy developers fight over that like a pack of wolves, not to forget all the engineering companies and the approving or disproving public purse string holders, this would take many more billions, a lot of them disappearing in the process and the 325000 expected unemployed people would still be looking desperately through stovepipes to see the dollar mountains.....
  116. Bob Cajun from the glorious nation of coboconk, Canada writes: Right, lets go into a bigger deficit and accomplish nothing. No new infrastructure that will not only maintain but actually improve productivity (e.g. east-west hydro corridor). No cutting of red tape (e.g. cutting intra-provincial trade barriers, standardizing entry crietria for various professions). No fiscal policy to arrest falling home prices (mortgage interest deductibility on the first 80% of home value). No fed-provincial agreement to sort out education/skills training to improve labour mobility
  117. Jimmy K from Toronto, Canada writes: This is BS.

    Someone relaunch Reform the Second, please.

    But this time, try to keep the cowboys, misogynists, and racists out.

    Thanks. I look forward to voting for you.
  118. Steadfast N.L. from Canada writes: And you people here think Danny Williams has been reading Harper and the Harperites wrong.Oh how you all have been fool by Hitler Harper and his cronies .that fat senator from PEI Mike Beached Whale Duffy and the fellow with the funny smirk on his face from here Fabian yes my nose is brown Manning are both running their mouths about Premier Ghiz and Premier Williams but people look at where it comes from again.The Hitler Harperites.as someone said on another site ABC may fly right across Canada at this rate Good night all
  119. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    The core problem is that the Federal Government has way to much power over Canadians, we pay outrageous income tax so that the Feds can spend our money as they see fit. It spends your money in areas of jurisdiction it does not control.

    This has got to stop if Canada has any chance of staying together. Federal jurisdiction is National Defence and Foreign Affairs. That’s all our Federal income tax should be spent on, all other monies should be returned to the provinces or not charged at all.

    If you in the East cant understand that, that’s why you are called dippers.

    .
  120. Percy from NL from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    'Support base for this government is dropping in the West.'

    ***********

    I am glad to hear it. Here in NL there is a tremendous amount of frustration with the very thought that Albertans may be aiding Ottawa in preventing our prosperity in Canada. Just as we dropped off equalization the Harper government (not the Liberals) has likely thrown us back on. It appears that central Canadians just have to get their fix from whining about the welfare bums they support.

    To be honest, I don't think central Canada can handle the idea of rich provinces to the east and west of Ontario and Quebec. And an Albertan by the name of Stephen Harper has assisted them in that by creating a whole new version we call NEP 2 to make sure it doesn't happen in NL.
  121. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Percy, The equalization program should be cancelled.

    .
  122. earl pearl from Canada writes: 'the liberals served notice...'

    is that a funny line or just a dumb G&M; line?
  123. Misty Morning from Canada writes: Some good comments at the start but then, as usual, everyone starts picking on each other. Just pick on the government please, or like the person who said 'instead of spending, why not try saving', come up with some ideas of how to stop this out of control spending. Yes, even a few small changes could save money. Like how much do these obvious photo-ops cost? And why do we have Question Period, talk about a waste of money. Does anyone on the government side actually answer questions? And some of the questions are really not worth a $ either. And yes, I agree that sending large delegations to climate change conferences is a waste of time when our government doesn't care a damn about our planet unless they are in charge of it, or if it becomes a confidence vote! And you think Senators are useless? They at least give us a chance to hear about what the government is trying to push through under the radar. If the cons have their way there would be no oversight, in other words we would have a dictatorship. Let's free the Scientists of Environment Canada, give more money to students and let banks and giant corporations fend for themselves. Maybe they could do something on their own if they don't have a bailout to rely on.
  124. Dan Laurin from Windsor, Canada writes: I mentioned a time or two that what should be done to pay for Infrastructure and Stimulus is raise the G.S.T. to 10% for the next 3 years that will increase government revenues by about 30 billion dollars. In 3 years lower it back to 7% until the governments debt is repaid. The G.S.T. is the governments best revenue generator after sin taxes on tobacco, Booze, and Gasoline.
  125. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Percy wrote: I am glad to hear it. Here in NL there is a tremendous amount of frustration with the very thought that Albertans may be aiding Ottawa in preventing our prosperity in Canada.

    Percy, absolutely not true, Albertans want all provinces to be successful so we don’t have to pay their bills anymore. Equalization is just incentive for provincial governments not to balance their budgets and control spending.

    .
  126. Dan Laurin from Windsor, Canada writes: P Martin from St. John's, Canada writes: Harper is an idiot. When are people going to wake up. Nothing he has done since he has been in power is for the Canadian people - it is all about his power, his control and his tyranny.

    _________________________________________________________

    100% Correct and when more Canadians wake up to this fact we will get a Liberal majority which canada needs badly.
  127. The Bubble from Canada writes: Raise the GST
    Nationalize oil and all natural resources
    Overhaul the Ontario education system to reduce the number of boards and offer retirement packages to the old farts who won't leave so younger teachers can work.
    Idiots.
  128. The Bubble from Canada writes: Albertans have proven themselves too irresponsible to control the oil wealth that Ontario nourished and funded.
  129. Percy from NL from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada

    It's not about equalization it is about the Atlantic Accord; a compromise agreement aimed at ensuring NL get enough benefits from the off-shore to become prosperous within Canada. If these resources were on land as in Alberta, there would be no issue.

    'the hope is if you leave the resource royalties there, they will generate over time much larger permanent revenue flows in other areas which is what the experience in Alberta has been.' - Stephen Harper
  130. L P from Canada writes:
    I think just focus on creating jobs, and continue with more research.
  131. Fiscal Realist from Toronto, Canada writes: Useless. Is there not anyone willing to accept that the market is simply behaving the way it should, i.e. the way it wants to, the way it MUST?!?!?! You can't spend indefinitely using other people's money if it goes only towards consumption, not productive, wealth-generating elements of society. Nor will a society prosper by propping up inefficient sectors or individuals. Who will pay this back?!?!?!

    All you do is delay the inevitable and force the costs of such mindless, politically-expedient distractions on your kids. How responsible of us!

    I'd expect this of the NDP, not the two real parties.
  132. Dwight Winger from Canada writes: Rick Mercer said it well the other night. 80 Billion dollars is a lot of money. 1 billion seconds ago Joe Clark was Prime Minister and the Bee Gees were still going strong. 80 Billion seconds ago Jesus wasn't even born yet. Crap, that's a ship load of money to be betting with. And it is just a bet, because there are no guarantees any of this will work. I say we just ride it out. Or legalize and tax pot! People are still buying that. Dealers know that the green economy works. How many people could be employed in government grow-ops?
  133. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Bubble head, Nationalization of natural resources will not happen, so you can scratch that off your list. The West wont be fooled twice. Never again.

    .
  134. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: PM Harper and Mr. Flaherty's stimulus package and tax cuts were far too 'conservative' and much too 'conventional'.

    Last week a prominent CIBC analyst estimated that the stimulus package was about half the needed size, and far too focused traditional 'shovel projects' rather than newer, high-tech intensive, infrastructure.

    Wrong and Wrong... That is what you get when you have two right-wing economic wonks running the country. Do either of them even know about the recent report by Richard Florida and colleagues about the importance of creativity:

    'Don't scrimp on creativity' (On-line 05/02/09 09:54 AM)

    The long-term health of the economy rests upon its ability to deploy its intellectual capital...

    Q - Can the Harper team get out the 20th Century???
  135. Percy from NL from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Percy wrote: I am glad to hear it. Here in NL there is a tremendous amount of frustration with the very thought that Albertans may be aiding Ottawa in preventing our prosperity in Canada.

    Percy, absolutely not true, Albertans want all provinces to be successful so we don’t have to pay their bills anymore. Equalization is just incentive for provincial governments not to balance their budgets and control spending.

    ***************

    So why cut revenue to us from off-shore resources just as we are coming off equalization. Clearly we still have the highest public debt in the country. It makes no sense fiscally to try to throw us back on equalization before we at least pay down our debt to the national average and can set up a personal and corporate tax regime which is competitive.

    You want us off equalization, but then you don't. I'm a little confused. Care to explain?
  136. Hogtown Joe from Toronto, Canada writes: Nothing Harper, Obama, Iggy or any leader can do about this looming disaster. Nature is going to have it's way us. It's all about balance and correction.
  137. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Percy,

    Im fully aware of NL equalization and Atlantic accord issues. NL should have more rights over its own Jurisdiction. Coastal Provinces should have all natural resource control on land and off its coasts. British Columbia included.

    .
  138. Percy from NL from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Bubble head, Nationalization of natural resources will not happen, so you can scratch that off your list. The West wont be fooled twice. Never again.

    ************

    With all due respect, do you mean never again for Alberta? Or do you stand on that principle for all other provinces having resource revenues being sucked away by Ottawa?
  139. Pierre-Yves P from Canada writes:
    Really bizarre watching the conservatives weaving the rope which will hang them at the next election. And they will hang hard: this budget is a shame.
  140. Mach Machiavelli from Lethbridge, Canada writes: Throw the PC/Reformo bums out now. Now or never. Then the recent senators appointed-not elected-Mike Duffy- the crude one -first, than Pamela Turncoat Wallin. Firewall Harper is a major kluzt-putz, Obama snubbing him with a five hour visit to US's biggest trading partner-Canada.

    Harper scews everything up no matter what, You neo-cons ain't seen nothing yet.
  141. Percy from NL from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Percy,

    Im fully aware of NL equalization and Atlantic accord issues. NL should have more rights over its own Jurisdiction. Coastal Provinces should have all natural resource control on land and off its coasts. British Columbia included.

    *************

    I agree 100%. The trouble is Stephen Harper and central Canada does not appear to agree with that.
  142. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: Mr Page's prediction that this government or any government will not return to balanced budgets by 2013-2014is pure speculation, nothing more than an opinion unfounded in fact. Wild guesses by the PBO serve no good purpose. The PM seems to have made a poor choice in the appointment of Mr Page as the PBO. The PBO should not be a government cheer leader, but the extreme negativism in his unbalanced forecasts could bedetrimental to the Canadian economy. At times the PBO comments border on sensationalism, almost publicity seeking, very unusual in an officer of Parliament.
  143. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Percy, note that 'Natasha' is simply a one-note thread 'troll'; everything s/he says emerges from nonsense about Alberta separation...
  144. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Percy, that goes for the Territories as well, they should get all their mineral and natural resource revenues, not the federal Government.

    .
  145. L P from Canada writes:
    BC is going to be fine with their economy. They have trade and other resources with their development.
  146. Chris O'Regan from Canada writes: A lot of taxpayer money -- current and future -- is being thrown around too cure a problem at the same people who caused the problem. Our country is led by people who caused the problem, or who listen to people who caused the problem. There is a reasoning that we have to cure this problem on the backs of the people who have no real say (but work hard to make the money), and they fill the coffers of this country as a side effect of making a modest living for themselves, but we are not permitted to ask the question: what's really being done with OUR money? The response, just give them the money, oh, and a little more...and I think we..er, they....need more. Does anyone else see the problem with this?

    Am I going crazy? I am sure I saw an article this morning about GM taking bailout money to keep their Mexican plant afloat while they are laying off people in the U.S., Can't find the articles anymore. Where did it go?
  147. Percy from NL from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada

    I am not surprised that someone from Alberta and someone from NL believe in a many of the same things. My next questions to you (being from Alberta) is ... What the hell is Stephen Harper thinking? And are Albertans sending him a strong message about needing to change his course?
  148. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Percy,

    Natasha wrote: Im fully aware of NL equalization and Atlantic accord issues. NL should have more rights over its own Jurisdiction. Coastal Provinces should have all natural resource control on land and off its coasts. British Columbia included.

    Percy wrote: I agree 100%. The trouble is Stephen Harper and central Canada does not appear to agree with that.

    Percy, some dopehead above talked about firewall Harper. I will use that comment to explain. Provincial Firewalls are a good thing, What firewall means is a province choosing to take control of its constitutional jurisdiction rights. That means natural resources, health, education, immigration and taxation.

    Stephen Harper is in support of Firewalls as he is correct to do so. That’s means he is on NL side, unfortunately Canadians did not give him a majority to take on the Liberals and therefore we all suffer.

    .
  149. L P from Canada writes:
    So if we are running a deficit in Alberta, there won't be any equalization payment to Ottawa.
  150. Rick Brontus from Edmonton, Canada writes: I got a call from a conservative canvasser today regarding the budget.
  151. Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: Percy, you and a number of comments from N&L; seem almost paranoid, suggesting that there is a conspiracy by PM Harper to prevent N&L; from becoming a rich province in Canada. The PM has become very unpopular with Premier Williams and by extension 80% of N&L;, because he hasn't caved in to the Premier's demands, unlike Paul Martin and more recently Mr Ignateiff. Premier Williams prefer federal leaders who give in to his demands otherwise the Premier becomes vey vindictive.

    Premier Williams is heading down a very slippery slope with his intrusion into partisan federal politics and assuming control of the federal MPs from N&L.; If other provinces follow suit, Canada will be divided into provincial regions politically, with two provinces from central Canada having control of federal politics. Do you think the western provinces would stand for that? The logical step would be, Canada becomes two separate nations, the East and the West. In either scenario, N&L; and the Maritimes would have little or no influence, worsened by the West leaving. N&L; needs the West more than the West needs them.
  152. Paul Byer from Canada writes: Gosh! Iggy has put Harper on probation and then put 6 of his own Mps on probation. Now McCallum has put Iggy on probation saying he hasn't insisted on enough 3 days ago when he put HARPER on probation????? Too many Probation Officers and not enough intelligence me thinks. Maybe too many chefs and not enough cooks in the Liberal Cabinet Kitchen? What does Iggy really think? Who is Iggy's puppeteers? A steady hand on Canada's tiller (as professed by the Liberals) and no Liberal (or Separatist or the other Party's) hand in her till. A good thing.
  153. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Percy wrote, What the hell is Stephen Harper thinking? And are Albertans sending him a strong message about needing to change his course?

    Percy, Westerners are unfortunately not sending a clear message to Harper that we are very displeased with this course of action. We realise that without a majority, crucial changes that need to be made to fix Canada are not going to happen.

    .
  154. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: L P from Canada writes:
    So if we are running a deficit in Alberta, there won't be any equalization payment to Ottawa.

    >>> During difficult times individuals and groups typically turn inward, focusing soling on preserving their own self-interests.

    Are Albertans too small to get beyond that mentality?
    It is not about who gets the biggest piece of the pie, or retains their piece.

    Either Canadians work together to get through this recession/depression, or we divide and crumble into pieces.

    Good Night.
  155. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    L P from Canada writes:
    So if we are running a deficit in Alberta, there won't be any equalization payment to Ottawa.

    L P, No we are still going to pay, a province not balancing its budget does not directly relate to equalization payments.

    .
  156. Paul Byer from Canada writes: Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Either Canadians work together to get through this recession/depression, or we divide and crumble into pieces. Good Night. ...................................................................................... But Harper rules in the West and gains in every election in Ontario. What part of this equation are you missing? Good night.
  157. Fecal Matter Happens from Allover, Canada writes: Why can't everybody just go on pokey for a year, work on the side for a bit of cash and chillax for 9-12 months, maybe even go back to school? Sure there is some infrastructure that needs to get done but outside of that?What a waste of money that me and my chillren will have to pay back for all these special interest groups both left and right. What a scam. Think I'll start looking for a govt job, that's where he security is going to be.
  158. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Alberta collectively decided to focus on milking the oil and gas cow to the max... It worked, very very well for a while, and will temporarily work again.

    But you are now paying the price for that over-specialization and non-sustainable economy...

    Innovation and creativity are the future, not fossil fuels...
  159. Paul Byer from Canada writes: Fecal Matter Happens from Allover, Canada writes: Why can't everybody just go on pokey for a year, work on the side for a bit of cash and chillax for 9-12 months, maybe even go back to school? Sure there is some infrastructure that needs to get done but outside of that?What a waste of money that me and my chillren will have to pay back for all these special interest groups both left and right. What a scam. Think I'll start looking for a govt job, that's where he security is going to be.

    ......................................................................................

    But if we all go socialist (NDP), who will pay for the welfare?
  160. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    L P, If you live in Alberta and are employed and paying taxes, your portion that you will pay is $6,000 dollars this year that goes to equalization receiving provinces.

    And have you ever received a thank you?

    .
  161. Steven Ferguson from Canada writes: Spending more federal money is not going to do much good for the economy in the short run, and will definately do harm in the long run. If the Liberals push the Conservatives into even more spending, then we have a switch from last parliament whenthe Conservatives intimidated the Liberals. Instead we will have the Liberals intimidating the larger Conservative party. In some ways it is poetic irony, except that what the Liberals seem to want is a long term deficit which will drag the country down for a generation.

    This would be tragic indeed.
  162. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes: Stephen Harper is in support of Firewalls as he is correct to do so. That’s means he is on NL side, unfortunately Canadians did not give him a majority to take on the Liberals and therefore we all suffer

    Natasha, therein lies the whole folly of your thinking. We've seen what Harper tries with a minority. No one in their right mind would trust te guy with an outright majority. What he's done to NL would be magnified a hundredfold in no time. Face it the guy is just in it for the power, nothing else.
  163. Free The West Free The West from A Vote For The Liberals Is a Vote For The Bloc., Canada writes: Hey, Westerners are definitely not happy with all this B.S. The problem is that if Harper didn't give in to what Ontario/Quebec wants then the coalition would be running this program. Can anybody imagine the nightmare that would be?

    That is the whole problem with Canada. Only Ontario/Quebec matter, and they always want to steal all the money!
  164. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Paul Byer from Canada writes: Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Either Canadians work together to get through this recession/depression, or we divide and crumble into pieces. Good Night. ...................................................................................... But Harper rules in the West and gains in every election in Ontario. What part of this equation are you missing? Good night.

    >>>> Paul, how does your comment relate to mine?

    In either case, the CPC is in free-fall in most of progressive Ontario. PM Harper's acting skills are wearing thin. Sadly, he is simply not BIG enough to be PM for all of Canada. Perhaps things can be salvaged for the Tories, but they need to replace their passive-aggressive adolescent leader... It is no wonder that he fit in well in the bunker-mentality heavy 'fortress Aberta'.
    I once had some hope that he was as least competent...
    Perhaps Flaherty or McKay would be better alternatives...

    Cheers.

  165. Melchior Gaspar Balthazar from Canada writes: If there is anyone who can reTOOL the budget, it's Flapper.
  166. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:

    Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:
    L P, If you live in Alberta and are employed and paying taxes, your portion that you will pay is $6,000 dollars this year that goes to equalization receiving provinces.
    And have you ever received a thank you?
    Posted 05/02/09 at 10:46 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    ==============================

    If you live in NFLDLAB or Ontario or PEI or wherever in Canada and make the same income you contribute precisely the same amount $6,000.00 ...... dummy .......
  167. Percy from NL from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes: Stephen Harper is in support of Firewalls as he is correct to do so. That’s means he is on NL side, unfortunately Canadians did not give him a majority to take on the Liberals and therefore we all suffer. ***************** Harper has been trying to misinform other Canadians that the people of NL are greedy. Apparently we have the highest debt load and the highest unemployment, while being one of the richest provinces in regards to resources. So go figure, Harper has us labelled as greedy because our resource wealth has clearly gone elsewhere. That logic is warped. Harper is not on our side. He never has been. He was elected in 2006 on a mandate which included the principles of the Atlantic Accord remaining unchanged. Yet, without any political pressure from other parts of Canada he did a 180 degree turn on NL, all the while he funnelled billions of new dollars into Quebec. It was a 'look tough on NL while we slip big money to Quebec' strategy. I am amazed that you seems to have fallen for that game. Harper is nothing more than a vote-buyer. In fact he is the biggest vote-buyer in Canadian political history. It failed him in Quebec and now he's turning to Ontario; all the while it seems our Albertan friends say nothing. It seems the thought of power in Ottawa has corrupted many in Alberta. As I said before, the principles of: the right of a province to prosper from resource wealth, the idea that MPs should represent their constituents, and fiscal prudence, seem to have shifted under Harper from Alberta to NL.
  168. Yogie Bear from The Forest, Canada writes: Wow, this Conservative government is leaning left of the NDP now.
  169. Fecal Matter Happens from Allover, Canada writes: Percy, could you please provide a link where Harper labelled NL as greedy? Thx.
  170. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: The Bubble from Canada writes: 'Raise the GST Nationalize oil and all natural resources Overhaul the Ontario education system'

    Raising the GST is a non-starter politically, even though it would be a smart idea (especially if combined with raising the personal exemption, lowering corporate and personal income taxes and cutting government spending).

    Nationalizing oil and natural resources will NEVER work, you'd have a HUGE public outcry from B.C., Alberta, Sask., Ontario (we have the largest mining and second-largest forestry industry in Canada) and Newfoundland at the very least.

    Even if you ONLY tried to nationalize oil and gas that would only work for all of about 2 nanoseconds before B.C., Alberta and Saskatchewan collectively (and quite rightfully) tell us to go take a flying leap and then head off to form their own country. We can't exactly nationalize foreign interests and that's what our oil and gas industry would become if we tried to nationalize them.

    As for Ontario's education system, I agree that it needs a bit of an overhaul, but that's entirely Provincial jurisdiction. As disappointed as I am in the current Conservative government there is no way I can fault them for this one.
  171. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Okay, so it is late in the East, so most of the posters are bitter Albertans...

    Sorry, but you are paying the price for relying on the Oil and Gas winfall too long. Time to grow up folks - the future is in innovation and creativity -- not in extracting old dinosaurs...

    I wonder why easterners who (used to) go out West for work, leave as soon as their work is done... A lot of nice people, but too narrow, to regional...

    Good night from the Center of Canada
  172. The Centrist from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    'Bubble head...'

    Who Ms Oilsov is 'Bubble Head?' I'm not sure if your nomenclature is really necessary.
  173. Percy from NL from Canada writes: Free The West Free The West from A Vote For The Liberals Is a Vote For The Bloc., Canada

    'The problem is that if Harper didn't give in to what Ontario/Quebec wants then the coalition would be running this program.'

    **********

    That is weak, very weak. Again, zero accountability. It's the other people's fault our guy is screwing up. Oh my, what is happening to the people in western Canada?
  174. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Percy, PM Harper is fully supportive of transferring constitutional rights back to the provinces. And since NL is a province that means he supports you.

    As for your comments about Westerners and PM Harper wanting to punish NL for something is untrue unless you listen to Eastern media. He may have a bone to pick with Williams, yes, but not with NLders or the provinces.

    .
  175. The Centrist from Canada writes: Its really amazing to hear conservative partisans bragging about Alberta balancing its budget. Alberta has frittered away its heritage trust fund, and in fact just got out of debt several years ago-because it was lucky enough to have oil.

    Cutting budgets in a time of recession is the wrong thing to do. Cutting government employee salaries is the wrong thing to do. Government employees are just as hard working as people in the private sector.

    Its strange how people keep bringing up the depression and state that Keynesian economics doesn't work. It did work in the 1930's, the 1940's, the 1950's and the 1960's. It stopped working the 1970's because of inflation. We don't have inflation now, we have a great possibility of deflation.

    This is not a partisan issue, this is a human issue-people who are unemployed should be getting paid more so that they can feed their families. Middle class tax cuts are unnecessary. If you have a job, you aren't going to spend a tax cut you will save it.
  176. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Vern McPherson from Canada writes:

    Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:
    L P, If you live in Alberta and are employed and paying taxes, your portion that you will pay is $6,000 dollars this year that goes to equalization receiving provinces.
    And have you ever received a thank you?
    Posted 05/02/09 at 10:46 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    ==============================

    If you live in NFLDLAB or Ontario or PEI or wherever in Canada and make the same income you contribute precisely the same amount $6,000.00 ...... dummy .......

    >>>> Exactly Vern! And one wonders how much of that Alberta portion is falsely build on poisening and destroying their land, air, and water, as a result of unbridled oil and gas extraction... IT IS TOO BAD THAT THE REAL COST of this POLLUTION is NOT INCLUDED in Alberta's earnings.

    You are fortunate, as Albertans might end up OWING MOTHER NATURE 10X $6000 per person.

    Cheers.
  177. Neo/TheoCon Lies - Harper Dysfunctional from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Tough times require tough measures,

    Roll back at federal wages by 10%.
    Rollback wages for teachers and heath care professionals by the same amount.
    Cut all Federal department budgets by 20%
    Reduce corporate income tax by the same amount as listed above.
    Temporarily stop all foreign aid.
    Ban unions.
    Sell the CBC, disband the CRTC.
    Stop subsidising failing manufacturers.
    No stimulus.

    If Canada did that, we would be ok.

    --------------------------------------------------------

    Thanks, you have confirmed that you are an absolute crackpot wingnut rightwing extremist yahoo. So when are you taking your cut ?
  178. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Percy, PM Harper is fully supportive of transferring constitutional rights back to the provinces. And since NL is a province that means he supports you.

    ===================================

    The federal govt does not grant or transfer 'rights' to provinces in this country. Perhaps in your cave ......... but nowhere else.

    Percy pardon me for the interruption.
  179. J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Flaherty, do not be fooled or pressured by Liberal shenanigans.

    Do not use my tax money for stimulus. The government should cut spending to have a balanced budget and continue to pay down the debt. And im a hard core right wing Conservative.

    .
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Natasha, sounds more like you are a Paul Martin Liberal fiscally

    So is Ignatieff

    So am I

    .
  180. Melchior Gaspar Balthazar from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Percy, PM Harper is fully supportive of transferring constitutional rights back to the provinces.

    ============================

    What on Earth is that supposed to mean?

    The provinces have constitutional authority in some areas and the feds have them in other areas. No transfer is allowed between them.
  181. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Mel wrote: What if my taxes payable was only $3000?

    Its an average, equalization payments divided by the amount of taxpayers, if you want to use real numbers based on personal income tax payed, my contribution/portion was $21,000 for this year, so you can kinda see why im pissed with the whole equalization thingy.

    And to add to that, per capita I have less representation in the federal government. So, less representation and pay more does not work for me.

    .
  182. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes: 'L P, If you live in Alberta and are employed and paying taxes, your portion that you will pay is $6,000 dollars this year that goes to equalization receiving provinces.'

    Equalization for this year is $14.2B plus another $2.5B for the similar Territorial Formula Financing program. Total is $16.7B

    Albert citizens and businesses pay approximately 13% of that (Alberta's percentage of total GDP of Canada), or or $2.2B. There are approximately 2.6 million taxpayers in Alberta.

    The cost of the Equalization Program and TFF combined works out to a mean of around $850 per year.

    The $6000 number you mention is the amount, per capita, that Alberta pays in total Federal taxes less the amount of total Federal spending that occurs in Alberta. This is the same as the $21B (or is it $23B now?), or a bit less than $2000 per capita, that Dalton McGuinty keeps whining about Ontario being short-changed by. Equalization is one small part of that.

    Remember, EVERYONE pays into equalization through their Federal taxes, but only SOME Provincial governments get money out. Here in Ontario individuals and corporations will pay approximately $6.7B into equalization and TFF (same calculations as above, Ontario generates about 40% of Canadian GDP) while McGuinty will get about $350M out to waste as he sees fit.
  183. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes: He may have a bone to pick with Williams, yes, but not with NLders or the provinces.

    So , what you're saying is he's punishing NLers for voting for Williams? Either way it's the populace that's getting srewed. So by extension he's got a bone to pick with them. And he's extremely viscious when someone doesn't play the game the way he thinks it should be played. Harper that is.

  184. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: I may have been unfairly picking on Alberta a bit, but if you are fair-minded you must recognize that an economy so highly dependent on ONE sector, ONE resource, is a sitting duck, economic-wise.

    Why not move faster to start to withdraw from your addicton on oil/gas, and move to ADDING VALUE.
    Begin the healing -- and Mother Earth will also thank you.

    Cheers and Good Nite
  185. R. M. from Regina, Canada writes: Anybody who thinks this process is easy (and obviously from the comments many do) has been sharing too many bong pipes with Michael Phelps!
  186. L P from Canada writes:
    Anyway $6000 is a lot of money for each person.
  187. Mark S Noel from Canada writes: The people from Toronto are 'entitled to their entitlements' and therefore worthly of more government money from the trough.
  188. Martyn Whitt from Canada writes: J. Michael from Canada writes: Fundamentally we are living beyond our means and the market is trying to discipline us; all the stimulus package is going to do is delay this discipline that eventually will take place - 'pay now or pay later, but make no mistake, we will pay!'

    ==============

    That post was was short and to the point, well said!

    Our general reaction to the economic crisis shows how short sighted and sellfish we are as a society.
  189. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Tony, your number of Alberta Taxpayers number is off, so your total is not even close.

    .
  190. Melchior Gaspar Balthazar from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Mel wrote: What if my taxes payable was only $3000?

    Its an average, equalization payments divided by the amount of taxpayers...

    =======================

    Funny you didn't see fit to mention the concept of 'average' when you said:

    'If you live in Alberta and are employed and paying taxes, your portion that you will pay is $6,000 dollars this year that goes to equalization receiving provinces.'

    Could you please provide citations for your figures respecting number of taxpayers and amount of equalization.

    Thanks.
  191. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Neo/TheoCon Lies - Harper Dysfunctional from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada...Thanks, you have confirmed that you are an absolute crackpot wingnut rightwing extremist yahoo. So when are you taking your cut ?

    >>>> Neo, thank you for the good belly laugh!! (No worries Natasha, it was not AT you, but rather the good lines.)

    We do all (yeah, me too) need to lighten up a bit... Yeah the economy sucks, but most other nations/peoples have it much much worse. I guess I am reminding myself of Canadian Gratitude - yeah, even for our dirty oil and gas industry that fuels the cars we make here.
    (Perhaps the new Magna eletric car will change that...)

    Good night from Ontario
  192. Dan Laurin from Canada writes: Fuzzy Bare from Canada writes: Mr Page's prediction that this government or any government will not return to balanced budgets by 2013-2014is pure speculation, nothing more than an opinion unfounded in fact. Wild guesses by the PBO serve no good purpose. The PM seems to have made a poor choice in the appointment of Mr Page as the PBO. The PBO should not be a government cheer leader, but the extreme negativism in his unbalanced forecasts could bedetrimental to the Canadian economy. At times the PBO comments border on sensationalism, almost publicity seeking, very unusual in an officer of Parliament.
    ______________________________________________________

    But Fuzzy the P.B.O. is just doing what his mandate is to examine the books and forecast revenues. With Harper and Flaherty's unwise tax cuts and his spendthrift ways it is no surprise that we are in worse shape financially than Mr Rose colored glasses Flaherty predicts.
  193. aging oldtool from Canada writes: Flaherty is sounding like the gas from a ripe bag of doggy doo.

    Two months ago he would have laughed in your face if you asked him what we'd need to get through the economic crisis.

    What crisis, he'd say, until his boss stuck his foot in his own mouth and announced that funding for all opposition parties would cease almost immediately, prompting the misunderstood Coalition to effectiveluy scare him out the back door rather than face its anger.

    Then the finance minister shows up late last month claiming he knows it's a crisis and claiming to be offering $40 million in stimilus.

    Now we learn from an honest bureaucrat that the $40 million is actually maybe $31 million.

    Can anyone explain one good reason I ought to believe a word that comes outof this politician's mouth?

    Didn't he play that same trick when he was finance minister in Mike Harris' Ontario Conservative government, telling voters the budget was balanced, only to leave incredible debt and deficit for the incoming Liberals?
  194. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Harold, only one third of Alberta’s revenues are from oil and gas, so its not dependant on it. Its nice to have to run up surpluses but not dependant.

    .
  195. Ed Long from Canada writes: This is a recession.

    It's an 8 - 9 year recovery.

    Buying your way out of it is folly.
  196. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:
    Mel wrote: What if my taxes payable was only $3000?
    Its an average, equalization payments divided by the amount of taxpayers, if you want to use real numbers based on personal income tax payed, my contribution/portion was $21,000 for this year, so you can kinda see why im pissed with the whole equalization thingy.
    And to add to that, per capita I have less representation in the federal government. So, less representation and pay more does not work for me.
    Posted 05/02/09 at 11:11 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    ===============================

    Federal tax payable is the same all over dumdum. PEI'ers pay the same fed tax as alta. As for representation I think you mean you want to run the show and that ain't happenin so get over it.

    BTW if you paid 21 grand in fed taxes last year I'll eat my pool que. Unless you are one of those lazy unionized welders pipefittin and beer drinkin LOL !!!

    You sure don't sound like the intellectual type Ontario is looking for

    LMAO !!!
  197. Percy from NL from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada

    'And since NL is a province that means he supports you.'

    **************

    Ok, you made me laugh. As a matter of fact I roared so loud the neighbours are all awake now. I could type for quite some time.

    It seems you have an uncanny ability to ignore what is happening right in front of your face. I guess even the new Atlantic Accord side deal with Nova Scotia is intended to help the people of NL. Now I'm not saying you caught it from him but ... there wouldn't be a 'deny-reality' Harper bug spreading in Alberta would there?

    I'm sorry but on principles we here in NL are now 'walking the walk'. In Alberta Harper has many reduced down to just 'talking the talk'. That's really too bad, but it seems Harper has many doing only one walk ... down a path of no return on many of their conservative principles. And you shall be reminded of this for many years to come I am sure.

    Goodnight from 'The Rock'.
  198. The Centrist from Canada writes: Albertans don't pay $6,000.00 each. The money comes from general revenues from Albertan (mostly American corporations) companies as well so the oil companies are paying as well.

    The $6,000.00 per capita is an average and is not indicative of how much each individual Albertan is paying.
  199. J. Michael from Canada writes: The ship's captain says: 'Full steam ahead, we can't let this storm slow us down'.

    The first mate says; “No captain, we need to cut back the engines, change directions, we are heading for a massive iceberg'.

    'Hell no'; says the captain; 'We need to keep to the schedule, the plan, the status quo.'
  200. The Bubble from Canada writes: I hope no one here believes Natasha to be a female.
    Regardless of your devout clinging to your dirty oil money 'Natasha' sooner or later oil will be nationalized and the people who are raping the landscape out there for the last few pieces of gold they can before Canadians finally get sick of it will have to flee.
    Albertans are not real Canadians anyway.
  201. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: You know, all of us here tonight are living where we do because of a choice made by our ancestors or we had to find work because one recession or another affected the local economy. To now go and try to loard it over one another due to geography is a little juvenile. Albertas are no different than Ontarions who are no different than Nlers. Quebecers, though... Just kidding! What I'm trying to say is, let's start pulling togetherv for all our sakes. What we are doing here is spitting into the wind - it does no good and we just end up covering ourselves in phlegm.

    My final thought for tonight... good night
  202. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Mark S Noel from Canada writes: The people from Toronto are 'entitled to their entitlements' and therefore worthly of more government money from the trough.
    Posted 05/02/09 at 11:16 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    ============================

    Facts are Ontario spends substantially less per capita on programs than alta and has for years. Altans are the fat ones pal.

    But don't let facts get in the way of your fav myths. .. go right ahead ......
  203. The Bubble from Canada writes: I think given the price of oil, Alberta's dependence on it is somewhat less than a third these days, but y'all are still polluting at last year's prices.
    And someone take that dumb show Heartland off the air, it's even more stinky than a tailings pond.
  204. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Mel,

    Alberta Population 3,610,782
    Alberta unemployment rate 3.6%
    Alberta participation rate74.7%
    Alberta taxpayers 1.9 million

    .
  205. Dan Laurin from Windsor, Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    L P, If you live in Alberta and are employed and paying taxes, your portion that you will pay is $6,000 dollars this year that goes to equalization receiving provinces.

    And have you ever received a thank you?

    _________________________________________________________

    No but being from Ontario we have never received a thank you for all the EQ payments we sent out west.
  206. The Bubble from Canada writes: Guys like Natasha take on female names to get people to take it easy on them.
  207. Melchior Gaspar Balthazar from Canada writes: By the way, Flarper's budget was a complete debacle.

    -It spent wildly without actually investing.

    -It contained no plan to recoup the spending when the recovery comes.

    -The stimulus will come too late (due to co-payments and other hoops).

    -The stimulus will last too long, continuing into 2013-14, which is a whole business cycle away. This means Flarper's stupid plan is to continue spending right through the recovery, guaranteeing inflation problems.

    Flarper will bankrupt us if we let them.
  208. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Ed Long from Canada writes: This is a recession.
    It's an 8 - 9 year recovery.
    Buying your way out of it is folly.
    Posted 05/02/09 at 11:22 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    =============================

    So Ed, why did harper do it ??
  209. The Centrist from Canada writes: I fear for the human race-and my children and grandchildren when people are so selfish and worried about how much of a tax cut they can receive or how much their Province can receive or is paying into general revenue.

    We must work together, we are a country; and Ontario has been contributing billions for years to equalization. Alberta was a recipient of equalization for many years prior to the 1960's.

    Newfoundland was lied to by the Harper government and now is being punished because Harper/WIlliams have a personality issue.

    The human race is doomed when narcissists are just into this me me me. And to think these people actually reproduce. Can't they think about their children?
  210. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Vern,

    The federal taxpayer rate is not the same for all provinces, look it up.

    Ah forget it, im not going to waste my time on you.

    .
  211. Martyn Whitt from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes: The core problem is that the Federal Government has way to much power over Canadians, we pay outrageous income tax so that the Feds can spend our money as they see fit. It spends your money in areas of jurisdiction it does not control. This has got to stop if Canada has any chance of staying together. Federal jurisdiction is National Defence and Foreign Affairs. That’s all our Federal income tax should be spent on, all other monies should be returned to the provinces or not charged at all. If you in the East cant understand that, that’s why you are called dippers. ================= You are absolutely correct, I'm afraid that the average Canadian from Toronto to Montreal hasn't even contemplated the confederation of provinces breaking up. If the economic crisis continues for another 5 or 6 years and we in Toronto continue to live off and spend capital created in the West (which we will do I can assure you), an independent west is a distinct possibility. I can't blame the West one bit, a healthy society simply cannot continue on like this. The unsustainable aspect of our economy is the relationship we have in Toronto (to Montreal) with the West-the West that actually produces something. That relationship will break down way before the West runs out of resources.
  212. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Vern, no that portion I quoted was only a portion of the Federal Taxes I pay.

    .
  213. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: Tony ., from Waterloo, Canada write: 'The cost of the Equalization Program and TFF combined works out to a mean of around $850 per year.'

    Err, let me rephrase that to make it slightly more clear:

    Albertan's cost of the Equalization and TFF combined for out to a mean of around $850 per capita for this year.

    This is highest in the country (possibly second-highest N.W.T.) and certainly the largest NET contribution to Equalization and TFF, but keep in mind that even little P.E.I. (lowest GDP per capita) still pays about $480 per taxpayer (maybe somewhat more since they have a very low percentage of taxpayers). Mind you, their Provincial government gets a LOT more than that out of the program.
  214. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:

    Old tool says:

    'Now we learn from an honest bureaucrat that the $40 million is actually maybe $31 million.'

    ===========================

    And it might never get spent unless provinces and cities and municiplaities toss in more billions to make up their share. stevie has made it that way. Use it or lose it. Phantom stimulus !!!

    Where they will get 'their share' is anyone's guess. Property tax increases ?? Provincial tax increases ? Immigrants ?? LOL !! Printing press ?
  215. Percy from NL from Canada writes: Fecal Matter Happens from Allover, Canada

    I just caught your post on the O'Brien report.

    Isn't it funny that Mr. Harper, in the absence of any political pressure, is now ignoring so much of that report's recommendations such as 'making no further unilateral changes without extensive consultation first'. And I do believe there's been quite a bit of talk about there being no more new 'side deals' with provinces (oops).

    I'm sick of the weak arguments being presented here for Harper's warped positions on key principles. I guess it's proof that you can argue black is white. You wouldn't be respected much for your position, but you could argue it anyway.

    Goodnight all.
  216. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:
    Vern,
    The federal taxpayer rate is not the same for all provinces, look it up.
    Ah forget it, im not going to waste my time on you..
    Posted 05/02/09 at 11:30 PM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    =============================

    AHAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHH !!!!

    WOW !!!
  217. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Centrist, Alberta only received equalization for 6 years

    ,
  218. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes: 'Tony, your number of Alberta Taxpayers number is off, so your total is not even close.'

    It's a rough estimate, but should be pretty close. There are 3.6M people in Alberta of whom just over 2.0M are working. Figure 1/3rd of the remainder are retirees that also pay tax, even though they are not directly earning income and round up and you get 2.6M.

    If you prefer you can ONLY count the share of the 2M working Albertans, in which case the amount they pay into equalization works out to around $1100, however I'm not sure the retirees living in your neighbourhood would appreciate being ignored like that! :)
  219. L P from Canada writes:
    I think the federal rate is different for all provinces.
  220. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Tony wrote: Albertan's cost of the Equalization and TFF combined for out to a mean of around $850 per capita for this year.

    No, If jurisdictional rights were not stolen and perverted by French liberal governments and the corporate taxes were paid to the province to pay for those services, the portion is $6,000 to $8,000 average per year per Albertan.

    .
  221. The Bubble from Canada writes: Why wait, let's join the USA now because Canada isn't really a country anymore and we despise each other, joining Obama makes all the sense in the world, there are no reasons to keep Canada together as a country.
  222. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: A little history on equalization for everyone.

    A formal system of equalization payments was first introduced in 1957. The idea was based on the proposals of American economist James M. Buchanan and they were introduced mainly to help the struggling Atlantic provinces who were seeing low rates of growth and high rate of emigration to central Canada.

    The original program had the goal of giving each province the same per capita revenue as wealthy Ontario. Five years later this goal was reduced to ensuring each province had revenue that equaled the national per capita average. In 1967 the system was redesigned to work with every government revenue scheme with the exception of energy, this gave Canada by far the world's most generous system of equalization payments.
  223. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    L P, The federal income tax rate is the same for all provinces except one. Can you guess which one?

    .
  224. The Bubble from Canada writes: Alberta should pay more, they have more money so why shouldn't they pay more?
  225. Ed Long from Canada writes: Vern ... What Harper does, Iggy hints at doing, Layton declares he would do and Duceppe simply doesn't care .... is irrelevant.

    The wave is upon us.

    Only religious fanatics, fools and politicians will claim to control it, and use whatever funds they can find for the show. Admitting impotence is defeat. The facade of control calms the masses.

    Early 80's and 90's, great huff and puff but it still took 8 - 9 years. We're overdue. The global financial systems and national economies need to be washed over and start a new phase.

    Huffing and puffing just delays the obvious.
  226. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Bubble,

    Western Canada will not join the USA. It will stand all on its own.

    .
  227. D JL from Canada writes: I'm not sure we are heading in the correct direction. We seem to be spending on all the infrastructure stuff instead of the foundation stuff. The NY Times has a story on the recovery in Japan (which was the one before this mess). They have an interesting statement:

    'Moreover, it matters what gets built: Japan spent too much on increasingly wasteful roads and bridges, and not enough in areas like education and social services, which studies show deliver more bang for the buck than infrastructure spending.' --NY Times, 20090105ish

    Canada is spending $$ on infrastructure. This may not be the best. Of course, does any one know if a different spending profile will work any better. But the Japanese have been in a recession for a very long time. They must have learnt something. Hope the current Economist have...

    And having the USofA and the rest of the world go protectionist will not help. It will just shutdown the worlds trade mechanism. Love or hate glottalization, it is here now. We all have to live with it.
  228. L P from Canada writes:
    Sorry, the Federal rates are the same for all provinces.
  229. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: The Centrist from Canada writes: I fear for the human race-and my children and grandchildren when people are so selfish and worried about how much of a tax cut they can receive or how much their Province can receive or is paying into general revenue. We must work together, we are a country; and Ontario has been contributing billions for years to equalization. Alberta was a recipient of equalization for many years prior to the 1960's. Newfoundland was lied to by the Harper government and now is being punished because Harper/WIlliams have a personality issue. The human race is doomed when narcissists are just into this me me me. And to think these people actually reproduce. Can't they think about their children? >>>> Well said, brother!! (Sadly we have a very small PM leading us during this difficult time... I had hoped he could be bigger - i.e., put all of Canada's interests ahead of the divide and conquer strategies... We need our own version of Mr. Obama - and I do not idealize him, but I am speaking about his integrity, his biggness, his appealing to our better selves. We need that, and Canadians, the great people we are, deserve it. Good nite from Motown south. ps. Peter Mansbridge for PM! (just joking, mostly)
  230. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: The Bubble from Canada writes: 'I hope no one here believes Natasha to be a female.'

    Why shouldn't we? Two of the best known female philosophers of economics are Margaret Thatcher and Ayn Rand, both of whom carried views rather similar to what Natasha has been saying here.

    Or are you simply saying we shouldn't believe that she's female because there are no wimmins on the interwebz?
  231. L P from Canada writes: 'Can you guess which one?'

    QB
  232. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: part 2:

    The current formula considers five major revenue sources (see below). The objective of the program is to ensure that all provinces have access to per capita revenues equal to the potential average of all ten provinces. The formula is based solely on revenues and does not consider the cost of providing services or the expenditure need of the provinces.

    NOTE THIS SECTION!!
    Equalization payments do not involve wealthy provinces making payments to poor provinces; rather, the funds for equalization payments come from the federal treasury. Thus a wealthy citizen in New Brunswick, a 'have not' province, pays more into equalization than a poorer citizen in Ontario, a 'have' province. Because of Ontario's greater population and wealth, however, the citizens of Ontario as a whole do pay more federal taxes and thus their total contribution to equalization is greater than that of New Brunswick
  233. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Federal income tax

    Quebec 24.5% abatement
    ROC 29%

    .
  234. L P from Canada writes:
    Right, correct rates!
  235. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: The Bubble from Canada writes: Albertans are not real Canadians anyway.

    >>> In spite of my criticisms of the oil and gas dinosaur, that goes much too far. As others have said, Alberta is as much part of Canada as... Quebec, or Newfoundland.

    Having been born in northern BC, I realize the Ontario/Toronto tendency to think they are Canada, but this is not as strong as it once was... nor is Quebec's regionalism or Nfld's isolationalism...

    We are one country - diverse, yet wonderfully united by principles, history, and this great big beautiful country.
    It is NOT all about dollars and cents; it is mostly about the people what we can achieve together.

    Nite all (insomnia su cks).

  236. L P from Canada writes:
    These rates are too high, 20 something %.
  237. First Name: Last Name: from Ellesmere Island, Canada writes: Intuitive that Flaherty left Ontario in a mess, he is doing the same thing for all of Canada.
    .
    No imagination or focus in spending our money.
    .
  238. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    When you take into account equalization payments, these are payments if not received would increase your provincial income tax to pay for those same services.

    So yes, taxpayers are not equal in this country, take from one, give to another. The Canadian way.

    .
  239. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: pps. Dan xxxxxx from Canada, thanks for the information - very informative.
  240. J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Flaherty, do not be fooled or pressured by Liberal shenanigans.

    Do not use my tax money for stimulus. The government should cut spending to have a balanced budget and continue to pay down the debt. And im a hard core right wing Conservative.

    .
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Natasha, sounds more like you are a Paul Martin Liberal fiscally

    So is Ignatieff

    So am I

    .
  241. Free The West Free The West from A Vote For The Liberals Is a Vote For The Bloc., Canada writes: Quotes from THE BUBBLE [typical Ontarian]
    'sooner or later oil will be nationalized and the people who are raping the landscape out there for the last few pieces of gold they can before Canadians finally get sick of it will have to flee.
    Albertans are not real Canadians anyway. '

    'Alberta should pay more, they have more money so why shouldn't they pay more? '

    Yup, the East is addicted to welfare from the West, and like typical welfare bums they haven't the self-respect to pull themselves into respectability. Where is your shame???
    You Easterners have no idea how close you are to losing your benefactors.
  242. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    L P wrote: These rates are too high, 20 something %

    L P, depends on your income and personal tax exceptions. The numbers I quoted are correct.

    .
  243. First Name: Last Name: from Ellesmere Island, Canada writes: Bob Dylan's Voice from Canada writes: The Liberals are lost. Spend more, your spending too much and now spend more again. Do they think no one is watching? McCallum has lost his mind. '
    .
    Bob, it's Flaherty writing the cheques on Harper's command.
    .
  244. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Part 3: Regional fiscal disparities in Canada
    There are significant differences in the provinces in terms of size, geography, population, and economic activity. While there has been considerable convergence in provincial Gross Domestic Product per person and personal incomes among the regions over the last fifty years, the gap between the most and the least well-off provinces continues to be a primary economic concEqualization payments in Canada – 2007-08
    ($ millions)

    NL PE NS NB QC MB SK BC
    Equalization 477 294 1,465 1,477 7,160 1,826 226 - 12,925
    Per capita $938 $2,118 $1,564 $1,968 $931 1,543 230 $0 -

    Notes:

    Totals may not add due to rounding.

    I hope this formats correctly.
  245. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Part 4: Natasha et al, please note

    money is collected for equalization payments by federal taxation and is collected regardless of whether or not the province is a 'have' or 'have not' province. The difference is whether the provincial government receives money from the federal treasury. Thus, citizens in Alberta and Ontario are not necessarily taxed more, though their provincial governments do receive less. (However, 'the provincial governments receiving less' often results in the raising of provincial taxes. For example the Ontario Health Insurance Premium introduced during 2004 on account of the province 'receiving less' in federal transfers
  246. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Harold and Dan, the information was not very informative

    Dan xxxxxx, wrote Equalization payments do not involve wealthy provinces making payments to poor provinces; rather, the funds for equalization payments come from the federal treasury.

    No, If the federal Government takes money from you and gives to another, it is not money from the treasury, its from you.

    Another myth buster. A poor person in a have province pays more than a rich person in a have not province. This is proven.

    .
  247. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Federal tax rates for 2009 are:
    15% on the first $38,832 of taxable income,
    22% on the next $38,832 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $38,832 and $77,664),
    26% on the next $48,600 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $77,664 and $126,264),
    29% of taxable income over $126,264.

    http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/ndvdls/fq/txrts-eng.html

    You COns don't know shite ........
  248. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: L P from Canada writes: 'These rates are too high, 20 something %.'

    Federal tax rates in all Provinces are 15%, 22%, 26% and 29% for the 4 tax brackets. However Quebec citizens receive a 16.5% 'abatement' to their Federal taxes due to the fact that Quebec has opted out of certain Federal programs. As such even though the posted rate is the same in Quebec, the ACTUAL rates there are 12.53%, 18.37%, 21.71% and 24.22%.

    Quebec make up for this by having higher provincial taxes to fund these programs for which they have opted out of. Quebec citizens actually pay the second highest total tax in the country (after Nova Scotia).

    Theoretically other Provinces could opt out of the same programs that Quebec has opted out of and receive a similar abatement to their federal taxes. However in practise this would probably be a lot more difficult then the theory holds... not to mention it would probably be pointless and stupid just like it is in Quebec.
  249. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: ppps. From the Dept. of Finance of the Gov. of Canada website:
    ______

    *Federal Support to Alberta
    In 2008-09, the Government of Alberta will receive $3.3 billion through major transfers (Canada Health Transfer and Canada Social Transfer), direct targeted support and trust funds – an increase of $270 million from the previous year.

    Major Transfers

    In 2008-09, the Government of Alberta will receive almost $3 billion in major transfers – an increase of $129 million from the previous year and $716 million since 2005-06. These transfers were estimated to account for about 6 % of its revenues in 2008-09.

    Direct Targeted Support

    Alberta also benefits from significant investments in targeted areas such as labour market training, infrastructure and short-term policy priorities.

    The Government of Canada also provided support to Alberta through trust funds and direct targeted support prior to Budget 2007, which is not reported below.
  250. Douglas Freestone from Canada writes: Here is a novel idea, make EI (Employment Insurance) a true insurance facility. Companies that lay people off pay a higher overall premium, which doesn't decline until they start hiring again. And for companies like the Bay that are laying off full time workers in favour of hiring part time workers... guess what, you get to pay higher premiums for part timers.
  251. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Again, from the Gov't Canada Finance website:

    *Federal Support to Provinces and Territories
    In 2008-09, provinces and territories will receive $53.6 billion through major transfers (Canada Health Transfer, Canada Social Transfer, Equalization and Territorial Formula Financing), direct targeted support and trust funds – an increase of $4.2 billion from the previous year.

    Major Transfers

    In 2008-09, provinces and territories will receive almost $50 billion in major transfers – an increase of $2.7 billion from the previous year and $8.1 billion since 2005-06. These transfers were estimated to account for about 17 % of provincial and territorial revenues in 2008-09.

    Direct Targeted Support

    Provinces and territories also benefit from significant investments in targeted areas such as labour market training, infrastructure and short-term policy priorities.

    The Government of Canada also provided support to provinces and territories through trust funds and direct targeted support prior to Budget 2007, which is not reported below.
  252. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Natasha; But that's what being Canadian is all about... helping each other when we need to. We are indeed like a family.
    The older siblings moaning to the parents 'But why do 'I' have to look after the younger kids?'.
    Inevitably the parents reply,'because we are a family. We take care of each other.'
  253. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Continued... 2005-06 2006-07 2007-08 2008-09 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (millions of dollars) Major Transfers Canada Health Transfer1 20,310 20,140 21,604 22,629 Canada Social Transfer1 8,415 8,500 9,857 10,559 Children 0 850 1,100 Post-Secondary Education 2,435 3,235 Social Programs 6,202 6,202 Equalization2 10,907 11,535 12,925 13,620 Offshore Accords3 219 386 563 848 Territorial Formula Financing4 2,058 2,118 2,279 2,313 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subtotal 41,909 42,680 47,227 49,969 Direct Targeted Support Labour Market Training Funding 500 Infrastructure5 1,000 900 1,425 1,625 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subtotal 1,000 900 1,425 2,125 Trust Funds $1.5 billion Clean Air and Climate Change Trust 506 506 $612 million Patient Wait Times Guarantee Trust 204 204 $300 million HPV Immunization Trust 100 100 $1 billion Community Development Trust 333 $500 million Public Transit Capital Trust 2008 250 $400 million Police Officers Recruitment Fund 80 Carbon Capture and Storage6 5 60 Transition payments7 614 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subtotal 614 815 1,534 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Total Transfers 42,909 44,194 49,468 53,627 Change from 2005-06 1,285 6,559 10,719 Per Capita Allocation (dollars) 1,332 1,358 1,504 1,612 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- See explanatory notes.
  254. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: The final part: The Explanatory Notes.
    ______
    1. CHT/CST include transition protection payments as of 2007-08.

    2. Includes payments and additional amounts. For 2007-08 and 2008-09, reflects Nova Scotia opting for the 2007 formula and Newfoundland and Labrador remaining under the previous Equalization formula.

    3. Includes cash amounts from the 1985 and 1986 Accords and notional amounts from the 2005 Accords.

    4. Includes payments, additional amounts and data revisions.

    5. The total for Canada includes amounts for First Nations under the Gas Tax Fund ($7.5 million in 2005-06, $7.5 million in 2006-07, $10 million in 2007-08 and $12.5 million in 2008-09).

    6. Includes one-time payment ($5 million) to Nova Scotia in 2007-08 to support carbon capture and storage. $240 million notionally allocated over four years beginning in 2008-09 for the Saskatchewan Carbon Capture and Storage Demonstration Trust.

    7. Includes one-time payment to Ontario in 2006-07 for outstanding commitments under the Canada-Ontario Agreement, and one-time payments to Manitoba and Saskatchewan in 2006-07 for outstanding commitments regarding labour market training.
  255. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Sorry Natasha I didn't make that article up on the fly. Just because you don't happen to agree doesn't make you right. The people that wrote the article MAY just be a little more educated in the overall tax structure of the country than you. I know it hurts, but it might just be reality. REALITY SUCKS, doesn't it?
  256. J Kay from Canada writes: Natasha, Tony: As of 2006 there were 2.386 million tax filers in Alberta. As Tony notes Natasha, you ignore those who aren't employed but received income from investments, capital gains, and government benefits, all of whom pay taxes.
  257. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:
    Harold and Dan, the information was not very informative
    Dan xxxxxx, wrote Equalization payments do not involve wealthy provinces making payments to poor provinces; rather, the funds for equalization payments come from the federal treasury.
    No, If the federal Government takes money from you and gives to another, it is not money from the treasury, its from you.
    Another myth buster. A poor person in a have province pays more than a rich person in a have not province. This is proven..
    Posted 06/02/09 at 12:14 AM EST | Alert an Editor | Link to Comment

    ==============================

    Does that mean you shouldn't have to pay for repair to streets in your city/town you don't drive on ?? Or for transit you don't use ? Or politicians if you refuse to vote ??

    What a stupid MYTH you believe in. It's the essence of stupid COns ideology. M Y T H !!!!

    I guess there are advantages to living in caves ............
  258. Brian G from Vancouver, Canada writes: People around the world have stopped spending money. Why? - because they're scared that if they lose their jobs they will become destitute. Why are they scared? - because if they lose their jobs they WILL in fact become destitute. Telling people to spend or bribing them to spend with tax cuts will not work. Improve the social safety nets such as employment insurance, and welfare so that people are not so scared.

    It is probably not within the power of our governments to control the economy. The best they can do is protect the poor of our society - and the upper class who benefited from the economic boom must pay for that social safety net. Sounds too much like socialism? does revolution sound better to you?
  259. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Wow guys, lots of transfer numbers being posted. Lets keep it simple. The issue here is that there should be no transfer payments as the money should be paid directly to the province providing those services.

    That’s the point.

    Having the money go to the federal government to be washed and divided and back to the provinces is what’s wrong with our confederation.

    .
  260. Brian Dell from Hong Kong writes: This recession is a godsend to the political left.

    Yes, a little bit of economic trouble right now, but look to the future. Political resistance to enlarging the role of government is not just being eroded, it's being smashed everywhere.

    Fiscal conservatives and free traders are in retreat on all fronts. High finance hasn't been this reviled in the past 60 years.

    As a free marketeer I concede a full political rout. I'm reduced to running up the white flag and hoping for mercy. Perhaps Flaherty is already doing this?
  261. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Sorry Natasha I didn't make that article up on the fly. Just because you don't happen to agree doesn't make you right.

    Dan, if you want to read a credible article on the topic search Preston Manning’s Fraser Institute report on the issue.

    .
  262. Vern McPherson from Canada writes:
    Too foolish for me.

    It's like debating with a stone. In a cave .

    Nite ............
  263. L P from Canada writes:

    Then, how about unite Canada as one?
  264. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Natasha, I think a lot of others disagree with your point. I know you don't agree with helping others, it's quite obvious in your posts. However, most others would be happy to know their tax dollars aren't just going into the pockets of the politicians and their cronies. Unfortunately we can't guarantee that, and I think that more than anything else frustrates Canadians.
  265. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Vern, you don’t debate, you just post things to run your flag up. Since you are calling it a night, watch out for that pup tent.

    .
  266. Peter M from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes: 'if you want to read a credible article on the topic search Preston Manning’s Fraser Institute report on the issue.'

    OK, that's the funniest thing I've heard in 2009 by a country mile. Who writes your stuff?
  267. Alistair McLaughlin from Canada writes: The ironic thing is, politicians (and economists) are bending themselves into pretzels trying to 'help' us out of recession, when a recession is exactly what we need right now. WAY too much credit was handed out for WAY too long. We need to lower our consumption and get back to savings - a recession by definition.
  268. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Oh, so this is my dad can beat up you dad, is it? What makes your dada stronger? Is it just because he supports your theory? Look at the bright side of life... you get to help those less fortunate than yourself. As I said to my ex (who coincidentally shares your name!), this isn't just about you!
  269. The Bubble from Canada writes: Natasha it's difficult when you're the only person who takes yourself seriously but few people care. Keep paying those taxes, Ontario needs that money and Alberta's got plenty to spare.
    Equalization is better than Nationalization or the same? Either way, Albertans get to whine which is their provincial sport so we all win.
  270. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    L P from Canada writes: Then, how about unite Canada as one?

    L P, most informed Westerners would agree with your comment provided the following conditions are met:

    Provinces taking back their constitutional jurisdiction rights
    All Canadians pay the same amount of tax
    Receive the same representation in the government

    If all those things were made equal, we could probably get along without alienation, but without, no way Jose.

    .
  271. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: From the recent article, **Canada Needs to Rethink Equalization: MacKinnon*, by Bruce Johnstone, Regina Leader-Post, January 27, 2009. -- PART I (of II) Canada’s 52-year-old equalization system is producing chronically dependent ‘have-not’ provinces and financially crippled ‘have’ provinces and should be scrapped, says a former policy adviser to the Nova Scotia and Ontario governments. David MacKinnon, a senior fellow with the Frontier Centre for Publlic Policy, said debating proposals to reform equalization is like arguing about “how many angels are dancing on the head of pin.” “The real issue is: Is the fundamental purpose of this program fair? And I hope that my data has shown you that it is not,’’ MacKinnon told a luncheon audience here Tuesday. “The second (issue) is: Is it affordable by the people who pay for it? Certainly, for the people of Ontario… it’s not affordable.” And his conclusion after years of study is that equalization — the $14-billion-a-year program that attempts to balance social spending between provinces with differing fiscal capacities — is broke and can’t be fixed. MacKinnon said the equalization system — a federal program begun in 1957 — is supported almost entirely by taxpayers in the provinces of Ontario and Alberta. In fact, the net fiscal deficit — the difference between what Ontario receives in federal transfers and what it pays Ottawa — is now between $20 billion and $25 billion a year, even after Ontario becomes a have-not province and receives $300 million in equalization payments. In Alberta, the net fiscal deficit is about $15 billion. “It translates into $4,000 for every Albertan.” B.C. and Saskatchewan are net contributors to equalization, while the rest of the provinces, notably Quebec, Manitoba and the Maritime provinces, are beneficiaries.
  272. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Dan xxxxxx wrote: Natasha, I think a lot of others disagree with your point.

    Dan, I know that, it doesn’t make me wrong.

    .
  273. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: --PART II --

    ...(cont'd)...
    And equalization payments for have-nots have grown far faster than those of the have provinces. For example, Quebec has seen its payments increase by 68 per cent over the past four years, while Ontario’s payments have risen six per cent during the same period.

    MacKinnon said equalization was supposed to provide similar access to “key public services’’ for residents of have and have-not provinces alike. But, perversely, equalization has tilted the balance in favour of residents of have-not provinces at the expense of residents of have provinces.

    MacKinnon cited figures showing Ontario having 176 physicians per 100,000 population and Alberta 197, compared with Newfoundland at 206, Nova Scotia at 228 and Quebec at 217.

    MacKinnon said the global economic crisis will only exacerbate the inequities of the equalization program. For example, if Canada’s deficit were to rise to $100 billion annually, Alberta and Ontario taxpayers would be on the hook for $60 billion of that.

    This at a time when Ontario is facing a major crisis in the auto industry and financial sectors, while Alberta is facing a severe downturn in the energy industry due to low oil and gas prices.
  274. L P from Canada writes:
    Ok.
  275. The Bubble from Canada writes: No way Natman, Albertans pay more taxes or no deal.
  276. Right Winger from Canada writes: Alistair McLaughlin

    Does consumption not create jobs? So if we were to stop buying things, do you really think that would help the economy?
    We don't need to eat out, do we? All those cooks and waiters don't need a job. And even though my Ipod was made in Japan, I don't need it. And those people that ship it, stock it and sell it don't need their jobs either. Hell, even all those office buildings with all those people in them, they don't need jobs.
    Let's just buy used cars, food and clothes, because we really don't need anything else. And to hell with all those people that their jobs rely on them.
    I know, they can work at 'green' jobs!
    Good plan, I can see you really thought it out.
  277. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Natasha, get out of that 'ME' mentality. It makes you come across as a mean and bitter person. Embrace giving to others, who knows, you may actually break into a smile. Goodness knows we can all use a smile about now.

    Have to go. Got to get my daughter off to school in the morning then head out into the work world.

    Have a good night all. See you at the next revival meeting!
  278. Dick Smith from Edmonton, Canada writes: It shocks me that a conservative government (supposedly fiscally responsible) can throw this kind of money away. The stimulus package is inherently wasteful, as all government spending is, but this hastily concocted mess especially so. The taxpayer will end up paying for this one way or another. Either through higher taxes in the future or through inflation - making anyone with savings poorer. The problem is who to vote for, the other parties have demonstrated they are just as bad.
  279. The Bubble from Canada writes: Natman puts the me in mentality.
  280. The Bubble from Canada writes: The problem is all you idiots believe the sad things you voted for. The electorate is the problem, they wouldn't know an honest man if he came up and kicked them square in the yarbles, the jig is up, I just can't wait to see the population start stringing up a few of these whores that call themselves politicians, it's going to come.
  281. Brian Dell from Hong Kong writes: In my dreamworld there would be an Economist party. This theoretical party would only adopt policies endorsed by that magazine.

    Doesn't look like we are getting closer to that, though (not that we were ever even remotely close)...
    global capital markets, for all their problems, allocate money more efficiently than local ones; economic co-operation encourages confidence and enhances security. Yet despite its obvious benefits, the globalised economy is under threat
    - The Economist, 5 Feb 2009
  282. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: I disagree with MacKinnon's conclusion -- that Canada should get rid of Equalization (even though it would benefit this province and Alberta).

    Equalization is a good principle, if it is done right, and in moderation -- as Danxxxxxx said, WE ARE A FAMILY!

    That said, once the economy stablizes, we should ammend and (gradually) reduce equalization to some extent.

    Ammendments should make the system a fairer and more transparent program, relatively free from future adjustments based on political favoritism. Otherwise, the program just rubs salt in the wounds of regional/provincial differences.

    The PM's recent changes to revenues for Nfld are exactly the way this should NOT be done -- even if they felt it was justified it was tainted politically, and for good reason.

    We need a stable and fair program, not one that bends to each federal and provincial leader at any given time.

    Goodnight for real!
  283. Dan xxxxxx from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Dan xxxxxx wrote: Natasha, I think a lot of others disagree with your point.

    Dan, I know that, it doesn’t make me wrong.

    Sorry, just read Natasha's post. Must respond! Can't help myself!

    Yes, but if you find yourself outnumbered, it's time to honestly look at why you are saying what you do. If you can honestly say, I am happy with my outlook, then good for you. Just don't bring the rest of the country down.

    We, (most of us) are just trying to get through each day, and if we can lighten someone's load while we do it, then at the end of the day we can honestly say we are a better person for doing that.
  284. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: ps. For all you Ontario-bashers out there (hey I was born in BC), this is a reminder from the MacKinnon article:

    'MacKinnon said the equalization system — a federal program begun in 1957 — is supported almost entirely by taxpayers in the provinces of Ontario and Alberta. In fact, the net fiscal deficit — the difference between what Ontario receives in federal transfers and what it pays Ottawa — is now between $20 billion and $25 billion a year, even after Ontario becomes a have-not province and receives $300 million in equalization payments.'
  285. cherry picker from Canada writes: Have you ever done coke,...do you know what 'chasing the dragon' means?.

    For those that hav'nt let me share what someone I know explained to me once,...

    You end up taking more and more stimulants chasing the original euphoric high,...each successive application giving a less rewarding 'high',...untill your left taking 'hits' with no effect.

    Reading the comments here today brought up that memory for me,...

    Is it that we are that state financially?.
  286. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: Well said DanXXXX

    I am going too...finally.
  287. Tony . from Waterloo, Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes: 'The issue here is that there should be no transfer payments as the money should be paid directly to the province providing those services.'

    Natasha there are ALWAYS transfers. Whether you're talking internationally where rich countries like Canada sends foreign aid to poor countries in Africa, or nationally where BC, AB and ON send money to QC, NS, PEI, etc. Or for that matter provincially where 'rich' Calgary sends money to 'poor' Medicine Hat (or whatever city happens to be 'poor'). Heck it even happens municipally where rich neighbourhoods pay for the services of poorer ones. You can break it right down to the household level where the rich income earner supports his or her lower income earning spouse.

    The question is not whether or not transfer will exist because they're inevitable at some point. It is simply a question of where it makes the most sense to pay for services. Some things make sense at a neighbourhood level, some at a national (or occasionally evening international) level.

    Personally I feel that there are some Federal services that really should be handled by the Provinces. On the flip side I think we should at least look into moving Health Care (by far the biggest provincial expense) to Federal jurisdiction. Why should little PEI have to have their entire own health care system, funded predominantly by other provinces anyway?
  288. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Harold, There should be some conditions put on provinces that qualify for equalization.

    That they run a balanced budget to qualify.
    And that they use half of the money to be paid directly towards their debt.

    That way it wouldn’t be such a hard pill to swallow for the rest of us.

    .
  289. West Coast Not West from Canada writes: Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:
    Bubble,
    Western Canada will not join the USA. It will stand all on its own.

    I think the matter of fact way that Natasha claims to speak for everyone west of the ON/MAN border is why most of us want less and less to do with folks in the oil kingdom. The nouveaux riche have lost it.
  290. L P from Canada writes:

    Just don't follow like what Bush did.
  291. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: why

    /
  292. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: why

    ~
  293. L P from Canada writes:
    We will go into more debts.
  294. Andrew B. from Canada writes:
    Ignatieff will wear this Conservative-Liberal coalition budget just as Harper will.

    One question remains:
    What will happen when the electorate sees that the Emperor has no clothes?
  295. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Tony,

    Health Care is a provincial responsibility. Canada Transfer payments are paid to the provinces to pay for heath care. The Federal government gets the money to transfer from the provincial taxpayers.

    All this administration costs billions, money going from the province to the Feds and back to the province is just wasted money. Besides the Feds don’t give the right amount back, just ask Paul Martin.

    As a taxpayer, im being ripped off and my services cost to much as a result.

    .
  296. Harold K. from Windsor, ON, Canada writes: P O S T O F T H E T H R E A D ...

    Steve I'm Not an Alberta Redneck from Calgary, Canada writes: Every penny should go towards keeping the middle class and poor eating with a roof over their head...
  297. L P from Canada writes:
    Tell me about it.
  298. Voiceoftheelder lee from Canada writes: Natasha: Your idea of confederation is like the dysfunctional family where the main bread winner says ' screw you kids, I earn the money i'll do what I want with it. It's mine, all mine. You state that oil is a third of your wealth. That is the most dangerous economic profile in the nation. As oil collapses in Alberta, as it will do because of inflated production costs and environmental problems, you folks are going to suffer big time. I remember the disgrace of your provincial gov't sending Canadian citizens back to their home provinces during the '80's. Just how long do you have to work there to be accepted. I mean what's the term to become a FULL ALBERTAN. I know you dont speak for all, but you speak for too many to make me feel anything but disgust for your views.

    Just to let you know how I really feel, I'd rather suck a boil than ever wipe a tear from your child's eye. ( an old Arab saying)
  299. Geoffrey May from Canada writes: Harper's so called stimulus is a sham . It has no focus, and the mony spent does not represent any investment in the future.The only stimulus that makes sense is one built on energy efficiency and renewable energy .That stimulus costs now, but provides divedends in the future to pay for itself.Shorttrem, expand EI coverage to cover all workers , increase benefits from 55% to 70% of wages earned .Those two moves will keeep the worste of the recession away, and put money into the hands of people who need it.
    Harper won't do that though , he's opposed to green tecnology and EI, and Ignatieff lacks the guts to replace Harper with a coalition of opposition parties, Ignatieff would rather watch the economy fail, and try to capitalize on the governments failure
  300. Natasha Oilsov from Edmonton, Canada writes:

    Ok all you socialists, im outta here, sweat dreams, may you dream of large stimulus and many social payoffs.

    .
  301. J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    Robert perigrinations from Calgary, Canada writes: Who is running this government ?
    Ignatieff or Harper ?
    Lets call an election and solve this once and for all.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Parliament

    It's a minority. The Govt has to work with the other MPs to retain confidence or else the MPs are free to form another Govt

    Parties are not officially recognized, only MPs

    That's the law

    That's how it works

    That's why a dictator can't come to power - because a dictator would need the confidence of the House, which would not be forthcoming.

    .
  302. Robert perigrinations from Calgary, Canada writes: Who is running this government ?
    Ignatieff or Harper ?
    Lets call an election and solve this once and for all.
  303. L P from Canada writes:
    Election or not, deal with the crisis first.
  304. L P from Canada writes:
    Good night.
  305. J. Michael from Canada writes: We Canadians need to get our act together. We need to demand accountability from our politicians - stop voting for fluff.

    I think we should get to another election ASAP - force parties to put their cards on the table and for Canadians to elect a party with a mandate to govern. And provided the government sticks to the mandate given; support them 100 percent.

    My advice to Mr. Harper - start presenting what you believe is best for Canada - tell us why - do not be afraid to be tough - do not simply focus on trying to read the majority through poles in an attempt to appease. Stop playing games with Quebec or any other Province in Canada.
  306. J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    My advice to Mr. Harper

    Resign

    .
  307. Troubled Youth from Everywhere, Canada writes: Go Iggy Go. Demand they spend more. Ahhhahahahahahahahahaha.

    Oh, wait. IT'S ALL HARPER'S FAULT. Ahhhahahahahahahahah.
  308. Harper can't be trusted from Canada writes: It is absolutely amazing to see that so many of you chumps and boneheads believed Harpo when he blathered on about a 'small surplus' being planned or the budget.

    It was painfully obvious that he was lying through his teeth during the election. Just like his 'transparent and accountable' lie, his income trust lie, his fixed election date law lie, and all the other lies he put forth in his sociopathic quest for power.

    It's amazing that so many people were stupid enough to vote for him.

    If you voted for Harpo, you are an idiot and a incredible sucker.

    A Harper promise is STILL as good as a lie
  309. J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes:

    Don't blame me, I didn't vote for Fat-Boy

    Can't believe anybody could, just look in those dead flounder eyes of his. There's nothing there, just an automaton.

    A Fat dead fish out of water and now the beach is really starting to reek.

    .
  310. Robert M from Canada writes: If you are interested in listening to (and seeing) Mr. Page's appearance before the HoC Finance Committee on February 5th, go to the following webcast:

    http://www2.parl.gc.ca/CommitteeBusiness/CommitteeHome.aspx?Mode=1&Cmte;=FINA&SelectedDate;=2009-02-05T09:00:00&eventType;=Past&ControlCallback;=pvuWebcast&Parl;=40&Ses;=2&Organization;=FINA&MeetingNumber;=2&Language;=E&NoJavaScript;=true

    Like any other meeting, this is not entertainment. It does provide an opportunity to become more familiar with the points which Mr. Page and staff made on Thursday.
  311. Auroran Bear from Montreal, Canada writes: Cad jobs down 129k rate to 7.2% = ouch!
  312. P Martin from St . John's, Canada writes: - Gone are the $12 billion dollar surplus.
    - Burned through the $3 billion contingency fund.
    - Increased government spending to record levels.
    - Increased government spending at well above the rate of inflation.
    - Announced $19 billion in pre-election spending.
    - Lost $2 Billion a year and rising with a bungled income trust policy.
    - Increased the size of the government to the largest ever.
    - Huge tax cuts and grants to big business.

    And my personal favourite, from April 2008 to November 2008, there was a NON-BUDGETARY deficit of nearly $50 billion.

    I would not trust Harper to balance the books for my child's kindergarten project. To say he is incompetent is being kind.
  313. don ross from Toronto, Canada writes: Notice that Harper's, Harris's, Mulroney's MINI - ME
    Flaherty is not his same grinning self anymore.
    He has reached his level of incompetence as, has his boss
    Harper, Baird, Clement, etc. They need a rest from public
    life, the sooner the better for us all.
  314. mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: Finance Minister's comments follow parliamentary budget watchdog's warning that Ottawa's projections ..............
    ------------------

    Again, Kevin Page forcing Flaherty and the Harper CONservatives to deal with FACTS ....rather than fuzzy logic. Remember in a budget update not so long ago, in a galaxy not so far away, $100 Million surplus and 5 balanced budgets ???

    CONs deal lies.
  315. William J. (Willy) Godfrey from Whitby, Canada writes: Flaherty -- Failed as Ontario's Finance Minister!!!

    Flaherty -- Failed as Canada's Finance Minister!!!
  316. No Coalition from Canada writes: Can we maybe just start by spending what was approved? Would that be quite alright, Iggy you Piggy?
  317. Joe Dick from Kingston, Canada writes: Harper can't be trusted from Canada writes: It is absolutely amazing to see that so many of you chumps and boneheads believed Harpo when he blathered on about a 'small surplus' being planned or the budget.

    It was painfully obvious that he was lying through his teeth during the election. Just like his 'transparent and accountable' lie, his income trust lie, his fixed election date law lie, and all the other lies he put forth in his sociopathic quest for power.

    It's amazing that so many people were stupid enough to vote for him.

    If you voted for Harpo, you are an idiot and a incredible sucker.

    A Harper promise is STILL as good as a lie

    ===========================================

    Do I ever love knowing just how angry and hate filled the opposition is. Puts a smile on my face all day.

    Thank you PM Harper.
  318. bob london from Canada writes: G&M; needs journalistic help from grade school teachers.
  319. Art Vandelai from Burlington, Canada writes: The only way all this government stimulus is going to offset all of the asset-based deflation in the economy is in the event that governments start buying people's houses. Until then, it's a drop in the bucket.

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