5.25.2009

Random, Pretentious Observations from Europe

Please join me in saying a big thank you to our guest contributors, Robert Frank, Ed Kilgore and Tom Schaller, as well as our regulars, Andrew Gelman, Joshua Grossman, Renard Sexton, who did an outstanding job of maintaining FiveThirtyEight.com in my absence. Although I'll begin writing regularly again as of tomorrow, I also hope to turn one or more of our guests into regular contributors, and generally to increase the volume and diversity of the content you'll see here on a daily basis.

In the meantime, for those who feel like indulging me, a few observations from my trip to London and Paris.

Although I spent a year in London studying at the LSE from 1998-99, this was the first time I've left the country since 2001, and for some reason the differences between the United States and Europe were more striking to me now, as a "mature" adult, then they were when I was a student.

* London has changed quite a bit since I lived there 10 years ago; in particular, there's been a lot of new construction, and the city is notably more diverse. Also, the East End, which until quite recently was parodied as working-class and somewhat derelict, has predictably now become trendy and rather posh.

* London, and the United Kingdom in general, has sort of become ground zero for what is known as libertarian paternalism, with all sorts of subtle nudges to influence behavior. For instance, cigarette packs now contain not only the phrase 'smoking kills' in prominent letters on the front side of the package, but also, a disgusting picture of rotted teeth on the backside (a practice which is somewhat reminiscent of an American PsyOps operation in Afghanistan). There is now a commuter tax to drive into the city.
Tube maps contain firmly-worded admonishments to riders, advising them to avoid changing trains at busy stops like Covent Garden or Bank. Black cabs feature doors that lock and unlock automatically as the car begins to accelerate. The amount of liquor in a cocktail is strictly regulated (although this was true when I was there as well). Overall, one is generally more aware of the presence of government than one is in the United States, even though they have several freedoms over there (broader tolerance for things like gambling and gay marriage for instnace) that we don't have over here.

* The advertising in London, although just as intrusive and abundant as in New York (some Underground stations now feature video display panels on the escalator corridors), is always very interesting, seeming to cater to an extremely savvy, jaded, almost post-consumerist consumer. See some representative examples here, here, and here.



* Credit cards in both the UK and France now almost universally feature a smart chip, which require the consumer to key in a four-digit PIN before a credit card charge is approved. This can occasionally be a problem for Americans, as I encountered one or two merchants in London (although none in Paris) who were reluctant to accept my regular old U-S-of-A Visa. However, in other ways the use of credit cards is a breeze in Europe -- in restaurants, for instance, the waiters walk around with hand-held terminals and can process your charge more or less instantaneously, which at a busy restaurant can easily save you 5-10 minutes of waiting time at the end of your meal.

* Cellphones are fully functional in the Paris Métro -- or at least mine was! In spite of this, I observed only a couple of Parisians actually using them to make phone calls whilst underground, and when they did so they tended to do so very discretely. I'm not sure if this would work in, say, Manhattan, a faster-paced, higher-octane city where cellphone users (yours truly included) seem to have the insatiable urge to talk at higher-than-usual volumes and to draw attention to themselves. Still, it's probably only a matter of time before this practice makes its way over here. Perhaps the MTA will follow the lead of Amtrak, which designates certain trains as 'quiet cars', or perhaps they'll figure out some way to allow you to send e-mails and text messages but not actually talk on your phone.

* The leisurely lifestyle of Paris, lovely as it is for someone on vacation, has a tendency to dictate itself to you whether you like it or not. The Parisians get a late start on their days and a somewhat early finish; although mealtimes are late (9 PM might be the peak time to have dinner), the whole city is seems to have gone to bed by 1:15 AM or so, as once the sidewalk cafes close there is very little nightlife outside of tourist traps and ambisexual Eurotrash clubs. Restaurants and cultural instituitons are at risk of being closed on Sundays, Mondays, Tuesdays, any of a dozen or so Catholic holidays, and the entire month of August. Not surprisingly, the French spend more time eating and sleeping than any other industrialized people. They also drink more than almost all of them, although paradoxically there is very little public drunkenness, perhaps because alcohol is almost always consumed with food.

* Paris is also extremely unusual for its lack of a central business district; as most large businesses are instead confined to the outer reaches of the city. At 3 PM on a weekday in Central Paris, I'd guess that only about 1 in 20 Parisian men you might pass on the sidewalk is wearing a suit; the comparable number in Lower Manhattan or the West End of London must be something like 1 in 4.

* The food in Paris was, per its reputation, consistently very good, but I don't think I'd trade it for the cuisine in New York, as there tend to be few appealing options outside of traditional French fare. Although we had one very good Vietnamese meal and a ridiculously delicious kebab from a Lebanese street vendor, the French on the whole don't really seem to have developed an affinity for 'ethnic' food, which is what makes eating so terrific in New York, Chicago, Los Angeles or San Francisco so terrific.

* I did not find Paris particularly snobbish or anti-American, although I was probably helped by the fact that my expectations have been lowered by living in New York, and that one of my traveling companions grew up in Montreal and speaks fluent French (although with a Québécois accent). There was one notable exception: a restaurant we went to early in the week sat is in a small, somewhat spartan room in the corner of the restaurant, along with three other couples who just so happened to speak English. Perhaps they thought they were doing us a favor, but it was extremely unusual and off-putting, as a white American, to have the experience of feeling 'ghettoized'.

* Although there were generally not many outward signs of international politics, there is a certain amount of Obama bling to be found in Paris, as well as various iterations of phrases like Yes Oui Can!

60 comments

Gus said...

The smart chip thing for credit cards is such a good idea. Wonder when it will be adopted in the U.S? if you go to any popular travel sites, whether or not American cards will be accepted in Europe is a perennial topic.

Rasmus said...

Speaking of food... what about a NYC version of the Burrito Bracket? Or, if you visit Chicago, you should definitely finish the first one.

Neil said...

The best Thai food I've ever had was in Paris. It's a matter of being shown around by someone who lives there - you can't find the good restaurants as a tourist. My cousin lives in an immigrant-heavy part of town (I believe 22e arrondisement), and there's no shortage of excellent food in the area. Plus Arabs that keep their shops open outside of French working hours.

Auros said...

Limiting cellphone use in a train to data, rather than voice, would actually be easy -- put intermittent breaks in the signal. Completely shut down the connection for the last three seconds out of every minute. Would make trying to have a conversation extremely painful, while still allowing the use of data applications, which can always retry a packet if it doesn't go through the first time.

Auros said...

Oh, and also -- cell phones work in the downtown section of the San Francisco BART system, and the CalTrain commuter line down the peninsula actually has public WiFi, so you can login and check your email on the way to work, rather than waiting to get started on that til you get there.

Dr Plokta said...

The London congestion charge isn't a "commuter tax" because London is a public transport city, and almost no one who commutes to central London does so by car (which was also the case before the congestion charge was introduced). I work in Soho, and the idea that I might drive to work would be laughable.

When you say that the amount of liquor in a cocktail is regulated, it gives the impression that the purpose is to reduce alcohol consumption. In fact, it's simply to ensure that people get what they're paying for, and there's nothing to stop bars from putting double or triple measures into cocktails.

You're not going to find any recommendations against changing trains at Covent Garden, since it's only on one line and you can't change there at all. They recommend that you avoid using the station altogether at busy times. The advice against changing at Bank isn't because it's busy, but because it's halfway through a major overhaul and a lot of the internal walkways are currently closed.

capt said...

Good stuff and great to have you back!

juvanya said...

Although completely irrelevant, I love reading travel stuff. Maybe it being on this blog makes it more interesting than on a travel blog where EVERYTHING is about travel.

Well done, Nate, you make me want to travel!

fred said...

As for a travel blog, well, not...

As for the contributors, I liked the variety although I disagreed with some rather vehemently on taxes and warming.

Lior.K said...

10th?

Congrats on your vacation, Nate, you very well deserve it.

Some pictures would have been nice, though :)

Michael said...

Paris has a central business district...it's just not in the city of Paris

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Defense

That's where the skyscrapers and business types are all located.

Mike in Maryland said...

The main reason the business district of Paris is outside the city center?

Credit or blame can go to the medieval stone masons and stone quarriers who tunneled under the city, especially the Left Bank, to quarry the limestone to build the various stone buildings of the day, leaving the city center unable to support massive buildings such as sky scrapers, and basically anything over six or seven stories in height.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mines_of_Paris - especially the "Paris' growth over abandoned mines - a city over an abyss" and the section that immediately follows.

And if you're wondering, the Eiffel Tower is on the Left Bank, but in an area where less stone quarrying by tunneling took place, thus it has a more more solid foundation.

Mike in Maryland

My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965

Iman said...

Nate,

I have been following your posts for a long time. As an engineer/risk analyst and political junkie I can't describe how I much I enjoyed your analytical insights.

I am living in London, so if you still around drop an email (iman@gmx.org) and maybe we can have a beer and chat if you have nothing better to do.

Ben said...

Hope you enjoyed your time in London! As a London resident, I find your observations very interesting. It is certainly true that the Government is much more obvious than it used to be - every programme on TV contains a advert paid for by the Govt - road safety, health care etc...

Also, didn't realise the US didn't have chip and pin, it is an excellent system. Ben, London.

genghis said...

The 'robo-locks' on black taxi rear doors have been there since the 1980s.

Timothy said...

I don't think you ate aware that British ideology for ever has been about appearing blasé--hence the ads. Americans love to believe they ate more sophisticated, and so do Brita. They're not. Why trust me? Because I'm a Brit who became a US citizen.

Timothy said...

Sp. "are" and "Brits" sorry

John said...

Erg, you're one of those people who talk louder to draw attention to themselves? I've suddenly lost all respect for you.

Davy said...

Sounds like Paris hasn't changed much since my undergrad days in the early nineties. How I wish I could return sometime soon.

Shane said...

Glad you're enjoying yourself. However, don't fall too in love w/ all those "freedoms" in London. England is essentially a surveillance society. There are CCTV cameras everywhere and people are routinely arrested for taking innocent photographs.

Plus is it truly "libertarian paternalism" if you end up getting fined, arrested, etc... ? I don't think so.

Abby said...

About the cellphones in the subway point--one reason there may have been comparatively little chatter phones is if the phones in France are priced like those here in Australia (and I'm pretty sure they are), all of the cost is in marginal pricing, so the per minute cost of conversation is dramatically higher. There are little or no fixed costs, so it isn't clear that telephony is actually more expensive, but it creates dramatically different demand curves! And results in a more polite appearance....

charles said...

I think French drink more on average, but it's also probably more often, which means less "drinks per hour", and less drunk. That's my experience :-)

Davy said...

And if I remember correctly from my French prof. The French tend to dry out (from wine) in the month of August during vacation.

Jason K. said...

Nate- I'd like to see some math on the odds of the MTA ever doing something rider-friendly.

Max said...

Nate: Please get an editor. The typos are beginning to get distracting.

Daniel said...

"Whilst?", "posh"? This bloke needs to come back home fast.

madodel said...

Oh well, we are going to Paris and Rome in August. Hopefully not everything is closed.

And my daughter keeps insisting that there are Pizza places and other options besides French food in Paris. Nothing against French food, but we don't eat red meat.

Vince said...

Nice observations, and you really ought to try to get across the pond a bit more! ;)

On London advertising - I agree with you from an American perspective, they seem very "post-consumerist consumer" as you say. It's a cultural difference that stems from the value the British place on wit (sweeping generalization) & their love/hate (mostly hate) relationship with American-style consumerism.

On public drunkenness - conspicuously absent from Paris, but did you notice the elevated levels in London? Even on the poshest streets around Hyde Park Corner you can find more puke per square foot of concrete than anywhere in Manhattan.

On Ethnic food in Paris: you get what your immigrants bring to you. They don't have the historic migrations of Chinese, the Mexicans, the Ashkanizic Jews, the Japanese, the Thai, etc that the US does. Instead, you get amazing Lebanese, Moroccan, Algerian, and Vietnamese/Cambodian food... and that's about it.

oh... and Nate... WELCOME BACK, WE MISSED YOU!!! :)

Andrew said...

Paris can easily support many buildings of well over seven stories in height; most government buildings, the train stations, the Mitterand library, the Bercy arena, etc.

The city's building stock is strictly regulated intra muros because of aesthetics and space. The city's building have long been regulated for height, but most of the major areas of Paris date from the urban renewal in the late 1800's, which set the height limit of construction at 30 meters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haussmann's_renovation_of_Paris). This process also added very strict requirements; for example, your windows have to be at or about the same height as your neighbor's windows, and the stone you use can't be too different a shade. This is where the typical Parisian look comes from, and modern buildings would obviously destroy it.

Special projects get exceptions, like the Eiffel Tower or the Montparnasse Tower, Paris's first real skyscraper (built right over the catacombs). When that tower went up (about the same time as the Pompidou Center) , the outcry was strong enough that the government forced all new modern skyscrapers out of the city. Nothing to do with underground tunnels.

Victor Trac said...

The smartcard isn't actually a credit card.. it's an EC (EuroCheque) card that is essentially the same as a US debit card, but substantially more secure.

Europeans generally don't use credit cards, perhaps because 1) they don't have the mindset of buying on credit and 2) credit card fraud isn't protected by federal law, like it is in the US. You're responsible for any credit card fraud up until the point that you call and cancel your card.

Richard said...

Welcome back, Nate:
I was just in Brazil for a month and found waiters there could also often settle a bill quickly with hand-held credit/debit card readers. And not just in big cities like Sao Paolo.
Richard

Mike in Maryland said...

Andrew,

http://www.nce.co.uk/paris-underground/304369.article

Besides, I didn't state that EVERY building over a certain height would fall into a tunnel - I stated most of the tunnels were on the Left Bank, and that's where most of the danger of building (and street) collapse because of a tunnel cave-in lies.

Most of the height limits were put in place before it was easily possible to determine exactly where one of the tunnels was located. With current technology, such as ground penetrating radar, it's relatively easy and cheap to find what's under the ground at any location. Not so 75 years ago and before.

As to current height limits in Paris, those are like the ones in DC - all it takes is pressure to lift them, and they will be lifted. In fact, there is, right now, discussion in both cities about raising the height limits.

Mike in Maryland

My Blogger ID is http://www.blogger.com/profile/02848893412251095965

Occasional Analysis said...

Just one point: Britain doesn't have gay marriage only civil unions. They have just become gay marriage in popular speech and since they have all the same legal protections there is no de facto difference (take note of this America). The traditionalists were satisfied with not giving full marriage and liberals (or the left wing in Britain) were happy because in practice it amounted to the same thing.

TomAlso said...

I lived in both Paris and LA and I have to say food in France is definitely better. Although I agree on the fact that US have more variety, it is the quality that matters to me :)

Paul said...

Nate, as a Londoner, married to an American, and resident in the US for some time, I really enjoyed your piece, and this whole site is fantastic.

What it underlines is just how many little differences there are between US, UK and France which you can only get by living or visiting each place.

Come to that, my biggest surprise was just how varied the US is culturally. I lived in New York and then Louisiana. Two different countries, really.

Richard and Karin said...

"It was extremely unusual and off-putting, as a white American, to have the experience of feeling 'ghettoized'."

So it's completely normal for black Americans to have the experience of feeling ghettoized, is that what you're saying? "Hey, you can't treat me that way! I'm WHITE!"

Also, I second the call for a copy editor. You're a good writer, but too often your sentences have typos or missing/extra words, and on occasion they are completely unintelligible.

bmagilavy said...

I am an American living in Paris, and believe the reason foreigners are often seated in out-of-the-way corners of restaurants is because they are expected to talk too loudly. The French restrict the volume of restaurant conversation to a level that can't be heard beyond their own table, and an English-speaking table often spoils the ambience for local diners.

Petteri Sulonen said...

No variety in eating in Paris? You've been hanging out in the wrong part of town. Try the area around the Rue Mouffetard, for example -- you'll find everything there from Caribbean to Vietnamese, African to Japanese, and all at very high quality indeed.

Duncan said...

Victor,

I can assure you that most of the 'smartcards' are actually credit cards, especially in the UK (although debit cards also use chip and pin).

In the UK you are also very wrong on credit card fraud - the reason that chip and pin was introduced was explicitly because it is the bank that is responsible for fraud. This gave them a very strong incentive for sorting out fraud (or at least making it easier to blame the consumer if fraud occurs). The UK Consumer Credit Act is a wonderful piece of legisaltion that means that banks are responsible for both the transaction and the delivery and quality of goods purchased with credit cards (as long as you spend more than £100 on the thing you're buying). For example, I buy a Chrysler PT (see it protects dumb consumers too!) and put £50 on a credit card. Chrysler go bust and don't deliver my car. Now my bank has to sort it out (the whole thing, not just the £50)! Fantastic!

Boing said...

You don't have Chip and Pin? In America? What's wrong with you guys, you're meant to be at the frontier.

Interesting that Nate was impressed by our ads. I think they're far, far less interesting and funny and well-produced than they used to be. Especially back in the eighties, before clients realised that what they paid agencies should actually be vaguely linked to sales revenue.

US radio advertising, on the other hand, has always been miles better than British. Mainly I think because countless millions of Americans listen to the radio so there's serious money in it.

markymark said...

The only drawback with chip and pin is that it doesn't really end card fraud. If you know the pin then there is nothing to stop you using the card, and often the shop assistant/waiter etc won't ever handle the card to even check the gender of the card holder say. It also seems to me much easier to have a 4 digit pin than to forge someones signature.

One of the reasons the banks over here introduced it though is that it changes who is responsible for card fraud. If a pin number has been used to use the card (in an ATM or now with the chip and pin system) the bank will often not refund any fraud (The onus is on you to prove its fraud in that case). Previously with a signature, the onus was on the banks to prove it was not a fraud. (its a point that is in the small print of most bank accounts over here!)

Boing said...

Not sure about that. I think it's much easier to forge a signature - for the very reason that you point out, ie that the seller usually doesn't bother to check the card. To find out someone's pin you have to watch or film them typing it without their noticing, and then steal the card - much harder than just nicking the card.

Brady Wahl said...

"Manhattan, ... higher-octane city"

Manhattan has a higher resistance to detonation?

markymark said...

I guess its a bit six of one half a dozen of the other. I guess with a pin, its either right or wrong, there is no level of interpretation. But once you have the pin, and you have cloned the card (not unheard of) its tough to stop you doing whatever you want until the back picks up the level of unusual transactions. It is very convenient, and Nate is right that it can save a lot of time in a restaurant, and probably even saves time queueing in stores. And I guess its true that just stealing the card isn't enough to use it in store nowadays, (though you could probably do a lot of online shopping with just the card!)

Maybe I am just being too cynical and assuming that chip and pin was brought in essentially for the banks!

Boing said...

That's a good point about there being no room for interpretation. And I've no doubt it was for the benefit of the banks - banks simply do not spend hundreds of millions changing a system simply for the customer's benefit!

The system of using the card over the phone is crazily open to fraud - there must be a better system. For instance, Barclays give you a little electronic handset, for online banking. You put your card in and it gives you a succession of one-time-only codes, for each transaction you want to do. You can't use it unless you know the four-digit code. I'd think some variety of this system will come in eventually for telephone transactions, using your cellphone as the handset.

markymark said...

Its not uncommon I believe in new cars at least in the UK, for having a door locking system that comes on once the car starts moving. Ive never really thought of those sorts of things as 'government influence'.

I think its probably most noticeable in London, which has just had 8 years of very activist mayoralty under Ken Livingstone. The Congestion charge, at least through central London, is still highly thought of amongst those who do need to drive through the area as it has taken a lot of unnecesary traffic out of the centre, and certainly the roads are far quieter than they were. (Though it is expensive!)

I would suggest that the 'firmly worded admonishments' are actually friendly advice not to change at busy stations unless you need to, except written in English rather than American!

Victor Trac said...

Duncan,
Sorry, you're right. I made the mistake of lumping the UK in with "Europeans". There is a difference between credit spending habits of Brits vs those on the continent; at least, that has been my experience having lived in both France and Germany.

markymark said...

occasional analysis said
Just one point: Britain doesn't have gay marriage only civil unions. They have just become gay marriage in popular speech and since they have all the same legal protections there is no de facto difference (take note of this America). The traditionalists were satisfied with not giving full marriage and liberals (or the left wing in Britain) were happy because in practice it amounted to the same thing.
----------------------------

One thing worth pointing out is that increasingly in the UK marriage is a secular thing. Increasingly weddings are happening without any recourse to religion at all. A few years ago the law was changed so that weddings could happen practically anywhere if the venue had a licence. One of the results of this has meant that those who didn't want to get married in a registry office had an option other than a church.

Ben said...

Two things, at the University of Central Florida they have been using the smart chip in their student ids so students can put money on it for on campus spending. I love the security of it.

Second Canada has been putting the pictures on their cigarette boxes for many years. It really makes you think twice about smoking.

athenemiranda said...

In case no one else has asked this yet - why are all the guest writers you've asked to contribute to this blog male? Especially with all the dwelling on Roe vs Wade polling lately, it's starting to look like something a little less than diverse content.

I'm glad you had a good trip. I hadn't thought about London's 'admonishments' before - to me America has always seemed like the more paternalistic society, probably because of the effect of the War on Drugs on people's everyday lives. In the UK employers aren't allowed to take urine samples, for example, and people are generally less afraid of the police.

Knockout Ed said...

@ Occasional Analysis

but we have a different history with separate but equal institutions here in America

Vadranor said...

Nate,

Covent Gardens is not a transfer point on the Tube. Only Piccadilly Line trains service the station.

Stephen said...

For obvious reasons, there are Vietnamese restaurants in the City of Light.

Per capita wine consumption in France supposedly is only half of what it was a quarter of a century ago, according to AU REVOIR TO ALL THAT.

thesmothete said...

Even though I am not from NYC, but rather from a distant provincial area known as Washington, D.C., I have used my cell phone on the subway system here for many years now. We hope to export that technology to you folks in "the City" as soon as we pave our roads.

David said...

What was the very good Vietnamese restaurant? My wife and I will be in Paris in July -- she is a vegetarian and we tire of French food quickly.

Bold & Courageous said...

There's no cel phone service in NYC subways because the MTA decided--rightly, in my opinion--that many riders would be annoyed by being forced to listen to others' conversations in an enclosed space. The MTA is wiring the stations, but the tunnels themselves will be blessedly conversation-free.

jeanbat said...

Neil, there are only 20 arrondissements in Paris, so you must be thinking of the 13th where the chinese quarter is.

jeanbat said...

Regarding smart cards in France, you may notice that most of the terminals are made by Ingenico, and those same terminals are in service in the US (for instance at Walmart and many other chain stores).
Being a French living in the US, i understand why in Paris americans would be ghettoized in restaurants... (don't be offended but) they typically are louder than most French people.. compare the ambient noise in any US restaurant to that in any Paris restaurant!

Gyrate said...

"Maybe I am just being too cynical and assuming that chip and pin was brought in essentially for the banks!"

Chip-and-pin was brought in for the retailers. With signature-based verification, the onus is on the retailer to verify that the signature is correct, and they are culpable for any card misuse.

With chip-and-pin, the retailer never touches the card and it is the cardowner's responsibility to ensure that his/her PIN is kept secure. If someone misuses the card the presumption is that it is the cardowner's fault and not the store's.

As for food in Paris, I've never spent more than a weekend there but frankly a weekend eating good French food is no hardship at all (not that London, where I live, has any shortage of fine food either...)

Joe M. M. said...

Hiya Nate,

I'm an American who has lived in Paris for 4 years. I work in commercial real estate. Believe it or not, there is about twice as much high-quality commercial office space in Paris' true central business between in the 8th arrondissement as there is in La Defense, the skyscraper district outside of town. All that square metrage is just very well hidden behind beautiful Haussmannian facades. If you hang around the Opera, Les Grands Boulevards or the areas north and south on the Champs-Elysees on a weekday, you'll see nothing but grey suits! (...and better cut than on Wall Street to boot :0)