The New Top 50
A lot has changed since SLAM first did this in ‘97.
Ranking the Top 50 NBA players of all-time is no easy task. Making a list like this is not an exact science and, as you could guess, people are already squabbling—on our website, on other websites and in barbershops across the country—over the list we published in our latest issue. But is it really fair to have the debate before the complete list and reasoning is available for all to see? We don’t think so, and that’s why we decided to post our Top 50 in its entirety online. If you’re a real hoops head, a fan of SLAM or just a collector of basketball history, you should still go cop the issue; the images and the layout of the list in SLAM #130 are dope (not to mention the other usual goodness inside).
In any event, using the overriding standard that we only grade the players on their careers up until now (in other words: imagine if every current player retired tomorrow—which in the case of this list was about May 15—where would they stand?), eight full- and part-time members of the staff were given several days to study their history and prepare their own views. Then when gathered in our company’s conference room and hammered it out. We referenced the lists we did in ‘97 (SLAM #19) and ‘03 (SLAM Presents the 75 Greatest Players of All Time) a bit, but we mostly started from scratch, taking into account changes to current player’s legacies over the past six years as well as new appreciations for players of the past.
There were—and still are—a few disagreements about where guys ended up, but for the most part this list represents the consensus of the SLAM editorial staff. Will it represent yours as well? We know you won’t be shy about letting us know either way.
1. Michael Jordan
In case you were wondering, this was the least debated slot on the entire list. We’re not saying Michael Jordan can never be toppled, but for the time being, based on every consideration we could give, Mike is the one. Pure stats and their place in history? Try 30.1 ppg for his career (first all time). Or 2,514 steals (second all time). Honors? Rookie of the Year, 14 All-Star Games (MVP three times), 10 First Team All-NBA teams (nine First Team All-Defense), five MVP awards (plus six Finals MVPs). Dominant at both ends of the floor? Um, did you read the stats and honors above?! Championships? Six. Went head-to-head with other greats? Shoot, MJ ended one era (Magic-Bird-Isiah) before its time, and basically single-handedly kept a Hall of Fame lineup’s worth of stars (Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, Reggie Miller, John Stockton) from ever winning a ring. Entertaining? The most. Impact on the game? Ditto. Really, Michael Jordan is the perfect basketball player, and the only way he wasn’t finishing No. 1 was if we’d devised a new label for whoever we deemed “the best.”—Ben Osborne
2. Wilt Chamberlain
There was no farewell tour. In fact, he may not have realized he had played his last NBA game until long afterward. But for Wilt Chamberlain, the ’72-73 season was the end. It didn’t seem that way. Sure, the 36-year-old Chamberlain averaged a career-low 13.2 points per game. But he shot over 70 percent from the floor—a record that still stands—and he led the League in rebounding for the 11th time. Wilt entered the League as the Basketball Colossus and stomped the record books flat. In his very first game, he posted 43 points and 28 rebounds. He went on to win both the Rookie of the Year and the MVP. In ’61-62, he scored 100 points in a game, averaged 50.4 points and 25.7 rebounds, and played all but eight minutes of the season. He only won two NBA titles, spurned again and again by Bill Russell’s Celtics. But his personal numbers stood up. They always did. Chamberlain’s last-ever NBA game came against the Knicks, in Game 5 of the 1973 NBA Finals. He scored 23 points and pulled down 21 boards. His team lost.—Russ Bengtson
3. Bill Russell
I can’t prove that Bill Russell is into arithmetic, but I have a hunch he must love numbers. Russell’s gotta appreciate the number 1—that’s where he falls on the all-time list of chips won (11). He likes 2 also, collecting the second-most rebounds of all time (21,620). If he wasn’t into the digit 3, he’d better like it now, because that’s where we have him on this list. Four is special to Russ, too, it being the number of times he led the L in rpg (22.5 for his career). Five is near and dear—it’s the number of times he hauled in the MVP hardware, though he easily could have had a few more. And 6, well, 6 is the number that the Celtics retired along with him, after soaking it with sweat, tears and champagne over a 13-season career, while making the Celts into the storied franchise that they are. By being the greatest winner of all time, Bill Russell made the Celtics into a franchise of winners—long after his playing days ended. If you don’t believe me, just ask Kevin Garnett.—Tzvi Twersky
4. Shaquille O’Neal
A legend in his own time. A juggernaut. A true difference-maker if ever there was one. Made everybody he played with better. Shaquille O’Neal is a star amongst stars and has been one of the focal points of the League for his entire 17-year career. His stats are monstrous. For reference sake, here are a couple: Playoff averages of 25 and 12, 15 All-Star Game appearances, tied with Chamberlain for the most times leading the League in field goal percentage (9), won two scoring titles, ’93 Rookie of the Year, 2000 MVP, three Finals MVPs and four rings. Could have had more if not for the Kobe battles, but still, four rings is nothing to laugh at. At his peak he was a physical marvel, 7-1 and 330-plus yet agile and quick. An underrated shot-blocker. Arguably the best post scorer ever. Even now, he still routinely pushes around other big men with a physicality rivaled by only a few players in the history of the game. He made you laugh. Made Kings fans cry. He calls himself the LCL (Last Center Left). I believe him.—Khalid Salaam
5. Oscar Robertson
Big O was the only player ever to average a triple double for a season: 30.8 ppg, 12.5 rpg and 11.4 apg in ’61-62, his second year in the League. Read it and weep. He averaged 25.7 for his 14-year career, once led his team in boards from the backcourt and dished out the fourth-most assists ever, playing in an era when they were less often credited than today. And he had the undying respect of his peers. “Oscar would beat you anytime he had the ball in his hands at the end of a game,” says Elvin Hayes. “He was a complete player.”—Alan Paul
6. Magic Johnson
He wasn’t a very good shooter, nor was he particularly athletic by NBA standards. And if you’re only old enough to know him as the husky guy on TV who hawks rebate anticipation loans for predatory lending firms, you’ll be excused for not understanding what made him so wonderful to watch in his prime: No player in the history of the game better combined court vision, creativity, competitiveness and sheer joy. This dude now, I don’t even know who he is. Twenty-five years ago, he was everything basketball is supposed to be.—Ryan Jones
7. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Sometimes the numbers tell the story. Just consider the 38,387 points Kareem Abdul-Jabbar scored in 1,560 games over 20 seasons, the most ever in the NBA, by a long shot. Some more numbers to ponder: 11.2 rpg, 3.6 apg, 2 bpg and 6 rings. But Cap also transcended the stats, as one of the most intelligent, enigmatic athletes ever and the creator of the sky hook, which Bill Russell called “one of the greatest innovations in the history of sports.“ Its brilliance, Russell added, was that “it was completely unique to Kareem’s physical abilities, proportions and coordination.” All of that made the shot virtually indefensible.—AP
8. Tim Duncan
Tim Duncan is the best power forward to ever play basketball. Over 12 seasons, he’s accumulated one Rookie of the Year award, two MVPs, three Finals MVPs, four championships, nine First Team All-NBA appearances and 11 All-Star Game invites. And all for the same franchise. His career numbers are dizzying, but Duncan has never been about the stats. With his quick wit, quiet grace, no-nonsense approach to the game and always, always perfect positioning, Tim Duncan playing basketball is poetry personified. At 33 years old, his career is probably winding down. Enjoy him—and appreciate him—while you still can.—Lang Whitaker
9. Larry Bird
Larry Bird collected every accolade the NBA offered. At 6-9, 220, and long-armed, Bird had the body for ball and he was blessed with a natural command for it, if not abundant athleticism. Physical limits didn’t stop “Larry Legend.” You don’t average 24.3 ppg and 10 rpg without athleticism, but Larry did. You don’t average 6.3 apg and 1.7 spg as a forward, but Larry did. You don’t win three rings and last 13 seasons in the L with a bad back, but somehow Larry did. More than anything else he did, he always found ways to overcome, to compete, to win and to repeat.—Matt Caputo
10. Jerry West
Jerry West honed his skills in solitude, emerging from Cabin Creek, WV, to lead West Virginia University to the NCAA title game in 1960. West was rawboned, long armed and springy. His jump shot, especially off the dribble, was warm pie. West’s reticent aloneness both fueled and haunted him. His Lakers lost in the Finals his first six seasons, and each heartbreak added kindling to his astonishing drive to win. After more than a decade in the League, West’s ’71-72 Lakers won 33 consecutive games—still the record—and the NBA Championship. West chipped in 25.8 points and 9.7 assists on perhaps the greatest team ever. Modest yet self-assured, West was also the best clutch shooter the game has seen. He averaged a remarkable 27 ppg over 14 years, but upped that to 29 in 153 Playoff games—all before the three-point line. West was named an All-Star every year, First Team All-NBA 10 times. Here are two measures of the respect given Jerry West: He is the only Finals MVP not on the championship team. His image is the NBA’s logo.—Rus Bradburd
11. Elgin Baylor
Do you believe in basketball evolution? You should, you know. Because the NBA wasn’t always like this. And I’m not just talking about recent developments like three-pointers and Thundersticks. The fundamentals of the game have changed. They’re still changing. They’ve always been changing. But if you know anything at all about evolution, you know it isn’t just about small steps. Because that’s not how you get from Ralph Kaplowitz set shots to LeBron James dunks in a mere 60 years. Somewhere along the line, someone has to leap. And Elgin Baylor took the biggest leap of them all. Understand this, if you understand nothing else: Without Elgin Baylor, there is no Michael Jordan, no Kobe Bryant, no LeBron James. Elgin took a ground-bound game skyward, transformed the entire sport. True, he never won an NBA championship, despite playing in eight NBA Finals. But his 61-point outburst in 1962 remains an NBA Finals record. His 19.8 rpg average in ’61 is unsurpassed by any other non-center. Everyone since has just built on the foundation he laid.—R. Bengtson
12. Kobe Bryant
Perfectionism is the persistence of will in obtaining the optimal quality of spiritual, mental, physical and material being. Also referred to as Kobeism. When discussing KB24, there are a few things you have to take into account. One, he was constructed in a lab by commissioner David Stern and company. Sixty percent MJ, 20 percent Tiger Woods and 20 percent Jellybean Bryant (for physical attributes). Two, he’s only 30 years old and has 12 healthy seasons under his belt with three rings, 11 All-Star Game appearances and two scoring titles. Last but not least, how many players can give you 25-30 points when their defender is doing a great job stopping them? Kobe is the product of Michael Jordan as MJ was the product of Dr. J. Some may argue that there’s a different best active player, but truth is Kobe Bryant has the only set of keys to the best basketball player car and it’s going to be a few more years until he lets anyone else drive. For now he’s welcoming all students to ride alongside in the passenger seat. Put your seatbelt on and enjoy the ride.—Konate Primus
13. Hakeem Olajuwon
Hakeem the Dream, first thrust onto the basketball consciousness as a star for the great University of Houston teams of the early ’80s, went on to an NBA career that featured a dozen All-Star selections, the all-time record for blocked shots, two Finals MVPs, two Defensive Player of the Year Awards, the most steals in Rockets history and the ’94 League MVP Award under his belt. A rare talent who—due in part to his youth training as a soccer player in his native Nigeria—possessed superb footwork. One of the very few dominant players on both offense and defense, he scored nearly 27,000 points in his career and grabbed nearly 14,000 rebounds. Offensively, all the pump fakes and change of directions were designed to get his opponent off balance (seriously, the Dream Shake could have a write-up all its own) and out of position. Standing 7-0 with an athletic 255-pound body, he used both finesse and muscle, and combined quick hands, upper body strength and nimbleness to shut down opponents.—KS
14. Bob Pettit
At 6-9 and only 215 pounds, Bob Pettit was under-undersized. But after being cut from his high school team as a freshman and as a sophomore, Pettit went on to star at his hometown Louisiana State and then play 11 seasons in the NBA and total over 20,000 points and 12,000 rebounds. Pettit played his entire career for the Hawks, though at the time the team was based in Milwaukee, then St. Louis. As a rookie, BP averaged 20.4 ppg with 13.8 boards and won the Rookie of the Year award. His coach, Red Holzman, noted, “We didn’t ever hope that anybody could be that good.” His second year, Pettit averaged 25.7 and 16.2. In 1958, Pettit lead the Hawks to the NBA Finals against Bill Russell and the Celtics. The Hawks won the chip—the franchise hasn’t won another since—with Pettit going for 50 points in the decisive Game 6. As Bill Russell himself said, “Bob made ‘second effort’ a part of the sport’s vocabulary.”—LW
15. Julius Erving
If it wasn’t for Dr. J, there is no SLAM. I have 180 words with which to justify his placement on this list, but I could have ended after those first 10 and been done with it. Because without the Doctor, I’m not writing this at all. Julius Erving didn’t invent the dunk, it just seems that way. Wilt Chamberlain, then a student at the University of Kansas, was dunking on a 12-foot basket as early as the mid ’50s. Doc wasn’t even the first guy to dunk from the free-throw line—Jim Pollard had done it as early as the late ’40s. In fact, the NCAA had banned dunking by the time Erving started at UMass in 1968. What Erving did was turn the dunk into an offensive weapon, a tool with which to demoralize and destroy. Ask Bill Walton. Ask Michael Cooper. Yes, he won four MVPs (three in the ABA). Yes, he won three championships (two in the ABA). Yes, he was the main reason behind the ABA/NBA merger. But mostly, without him, there is no us.—R. Bengtson
16. Moses Malone
I’m old enough to have seen Moses Malone play basketball, but I mostly remembered the older, balding, bespectled, paunchy Moses who played out his career in a series of stints in peculiar locales (including Milwaukee and San Antonio). The Moses I don’t remember seeing is the man who parted the waters for players to go pro straight out of high school, the 6-10 center who averaged 24.8 points per game and 17.7 rebounds per game as a 23-year-old. Counting the two seasons he played in the ABA right after high school, Moses played 21 years of pro ball and retired with averages of 20.3 and 12.3. He won an NBA title and a Finals MVP, was a three-time regular season MVP, was an 11-time All-Star, led the NBA in rebounds per game six different times, and even led the NBA in minutes per game twice. Why, you may ask, is Moses ranked below Dr. J, when Moses’s stats and legacy are obviously superior? Well, Dr. J had a cool afro and could dunk. Other than that, I’m not sure why. Let my people go.—LW
17. John Havlicek
Tireless, gutsy, smart, scrappy and winner are all adjectives people used to describe Hondo’s game. The 6-5 guard/forward was certainly tireless, averaging more than 35 mpg nine different times. Gutsy also works, too, as Havlicek played through injuries, playing less than 75 games only once in his 16-year career. In that career, he managed to average over 20 ppg, 6 rpg and 4 apg, showing he was smart with the rock. It’s not just the stats, though; it was the way he accumulated them. Whether starting or coming off the pine, whether picking-and-popping or driving to the hoop, whether rebounding or passing, Havlicek did it all to the fullest. And that’s why he was the winner he was, pocketing eight championships. If you add it all together, one word can be used to describe him: complete.—TT
18. Karl Malone
Behind Karl Malone’s ringless fingers are two fists full of honors and records, of which we can only begin to highlight here. Malone was an All-Star every season from 1988 to 2002. He finished among the top eight in MVP voting for 14 straight seasons, and he won the award twice. He was First Team All-NBA for 11 straight years. He finished in the top 10 in total rebounds and top 5 in scoring for 13 consecutive seasons. Malone never missed more than two games in a season with the Jazz and played in the Playoffs every year of his career. He’s second all-time in career points and first in field goals made. Karl Malone was the prototype of being consistently great. And it doesn’t take a title to prove it.—Ryne Nelson
19. Isiah Thomas
Some of you under the age of 30 might look at Isiah Thomas’s ranking and shrug your shoulders, only knowing him from his scandal-ridden tenure with the Knicks. But settle down and learn something: Not only does he belong here, but there’s no debate about it. Clutch, quick and tough-minded, Zeke was a hard match-up for backcourt and frontcourt players alike. He routinely broke down his initial defenders and drove to the rack with determination. Additionally, he was an asshole (I mean that in a good way) to match, with a mean streak that only intensified his competitiveness. Thomas was the brains behind those fabled Detroit Pistons Bad Boys teams in the late ’80s and early ’90s. He scored over 18,000 points, dished out over 9,000 assists, was selected for a dozen All-Star games and was named the 1990 Finals MVP.—KS
20. Charles Barkley
Before the fat jokes every Thursday night and before senior citizen challenges at All-Star Weekend, there was a man who stood 6-4, who pumped fear into opponents and laid down the law in the paint. Often we give credit to those oversized with exceptional skill, and just as often we overlook the undersized players who cast just as large of a shadow. But how can anyone overlook someone who gives you 22 ppg with 12 rpg over the course of 16 years in the League? Yeah, Sir Charles didn’t get the one nice piece of jewelry he was aiming for, but he has his spot in the HOF, plus an MVP, a gold medal and countless other achievements. Plain and simple, Barkley was one of the toughest forwards to play this game. And some might even say he’s a great role model for future Hall of Famers.—KP
21. Rick Barry
Rick Barry’s prime was divided between the NBA, the ABA and various courtrooms, as the leagues fought over him. This reflected the tumult of the times but also overshadowed the fact that he was one of the game’s all-time greatest offensive players, scoring over 25,000 points in 14 seasons. “Rick had a tremendous outside shot,” recalls Chet Walker. “If we had had three-pointers during our era, this guy would have been truly unstoppable.” Barry led the NBA in scoring his second season with 35.6 ppg, but the League sued him when he tried to jump to the ABA. He was forced to sit out a year before his 34 ppg led the rival league in ’69. He returned to the NBA after four years. “Rick was as good at working the pick and roll as any forward ever,” recalls Slick Watts, who teamed with Barry on the Rockets, “He could shoot or pass great coming off a screen from a big guy, and he could also put the ball down once or twice, then score on anyone.”—AP
22. John Stockton
First all-time in assists (5,000 more than second place). First all-time in steals (700 more than second place). John Stockton didn’t just exceed what anyone thought a 6-1, 175-pound guard out of Gonzaga could do, he absolutely demolished expectations. Working brilliantly alongside Karl Malone and Jerry Sloan for the only team he’d ever suit up for (a record 19 seasons with one franchise), Stock ran the game at both ends of the floor with supernatural hands and unprecedented guile. The biggest negative to Stock’s career is his lack of a ring, but you can blame MJ for that. It should go without saying, given the outrageous numbers Stock put up, but dude hardly ever missed a game; in 17 of his seasons he didn’t miss a single outing, including closing his career with five straight seasons starting every possible game. And the 10-time All-Star wasn’t out there for charity—in ’02-03, his last campaign, Stock quietly led the NBA in assists per 48 minutes. He’s headed into the Hall this fall…though most people won’t notice cause you know who’s going in, too.—BO
23. Elvin Hayes
The Big E infuriated coaches and drove teammates crazy, but that marvelous turnaround jumper of his helped him become the sixth-leading scorer in NBA history. The top overall pick of the San Diego Rockets in ’68 after playing in one of the most famous college games in history (a 71-69 win for his Houtson Cougars over UCLA), Hayes led the NBA in scoring as a rookie and soon became one of the most productive and durable big men in history. In 1972, the Rockets traded Hayes to the Bullets, where he joined Wes Unseld on one of basketball’s most formidable front lines. Hayes helped the Bullets to the ’75 Finals, but a surprising four-game loss to Golden State earned the Big E criticism from those who considered him a selfish player. Three years later, he lifted Washington to the title, earning vindication against his detractors. Hayes finished his 16-year career in Houston and is remembered as a pioneering power forward and force on offense and the backboards.—Michael Bradley
24. Bob Cousy
When you think of razzle-dazzle and creative handles, you probably think of streetball. But long before the AND 1 Mixtape Tour, Boston Celtics point guard Bob Cousy was known as the “Houdini of the Hardwood.” Cousy helped contribute six titles to the greatest dynasty in any sport of all time. And even though his numbers won’t blow you away (18.4 ppg, 7.5 apg, 5.2 rpg), his crossover would crack any present day below-average NBA defender’s ankles. The New York native pioneered leading the break with behind-the-back dribbles and no-look passes that seemed headed nowhere until you saw a teammate swoop in and finish off the dime. He saw what other people didn’t see, and he knew what to do when he saw the opening. Cousy’s innovation shaped ballhandling on all levels of the game forever.—MC
25. David Robinson
Basketball, like life, is funny. In both cases, one or two moments can come to define your existence. Take David Robinson, a guy who averaged 24 ppg, 12 rpg and 4 bpg as a rookie, and went for 30 and 11 a few years later. Ten-time All-Star. Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, League MVP. Dream Teamer. And yet when I think of David Robinson, what do I think of? The guy Dream embarrassed in the Playoffs. The guy whose greatest contribution to his franchise was missing most of the ’96-97 season. But this is my problem, not his. For the first half of his career, David Robinson was all-world. For the second half, he was “only” a terrific, selfless role player with two rings to show for it. Nothing funny about that.—RJ
26. Kevin McHale
Kevin McHale looked like he was built in some mad scientist’s lab, perfectly constructed for low-post dominance. The man was all arms and legs, 6-10, 225, with limbs that seemed to stretch halfway across the court. He used those long arms to become one of the great low-post defenders in the game as well as an offensive force; he could release a shot over anyone, no matter how tall, athletic or determined. Consistently praised for being tough to guard by Charles Barkley, McHale teamed with Robert Parish and Larry Bird to form one of the game’s all-time great front lines for a dozen years, leading the Celtics to three titles. He often came off the bench as a super sixth man, abusing tired starters or overmatched subs, but he was rarely not on the floor at the end of tight games, and he won many with clutch shots, blocks or free throws.—AP
27. Scottie Pippen
Bring up Scottie Pippen and people like to talk about his negatives—once refusing to come in for the conclusion of a Playoff game, not winning a ring without Jordan, etc. But by doing that they miss the obvious. Dude was a serious player and basically perfected the point-forward position, especially during the second three-peat when he took over much of the ballhandling responsibilities for the Bulls. Additionally he was a lockdown wing defender, a key element in the overlooked fact that those championship Chicago teams of the ’90s were the best defensive teams that many of us have ever seen. At 6-7 and 228, Pip had the requisite strength and the speed to guard several positions on the floor. He did all this while being the team’s second option, scoring nearly 19,000 points over his career, making his complementary contributions to Jordan not just happenstance but crucial to the Bulls success.—KS
28. Jason Kidd
At 6-4 and 210 pounds, Jason Kidd was faster, stronger and bigger than most of the guys he went up against. But instead of running his opponents over, Kidd used a Mensa-level hoops IQ to outfox most of them, using pin-point passing to rack up over 10,000 assists in his first 15 seasons. His 103 triple-doubles are third all-time in NBA history, and they attest to Kidd’s singular ability to play a complete game in the modern era. While his defense these days is often mostly cursory, he was named First Team All-Defense four different times and is the NBA’s active steals leader. Kidd reinvigorated the Nets in the early Y2K, carrying them to the Finals twice, and then reinvigorated his own game with a trade to Dallas in 2008.—LW
29. George Mikan
There was no father to his style. That George Mikan was the NBA’s first great big man is almost beside the point; he was professional basketball’s first big man, period. A gangly 6-10, Mikan stepped into a game played by average-sized men taking set shots and changed it forever. He was both a freak and a superstar at a time when the game had neither and needed both. Understand this: They changed rules for this man. He dominated the lane so thoroughly that they widened it, and he swatted so many shots from above the rim that they disallowed the practice. Comparing him to the greats who came after, players with more size and talent, is a waste of time, and really beside the point. George Mikan is peerless because he literally had no peer.—RJ
30. Kevin Garnett
Career stat lines like 20 ppg, 11 rpg, a four-time rebounds per game leader, seven-time All-Defense First Team and one MVP pretty much sums up Mr. Garnett. Allow me to elaborate: Kevin is the most giving selfish player ever. Every dunk or fadeaway is done with the intent to make you feel bad about yourself. Every rebound he snatches is another way of telling you he’s better than you. His intense eyes and war cries are his way of letting out the pain for you. KG came into the League in 1995 as a hyped-up skinny high school kid from Illinois via South Carolina who played with passion and intensity. In 2009, 14 years later, you can call KG a man who lived up to the hype and plays with intensity and passion every game.—KP
31. Willis Reed
When Willis Reed emerged from the tunnel in Madison Square Garden to inspire his teammates to beat the Lakers in Game 7 of the 1970 NBA Finals, he created a moment that would last forever in League folklore. That one moment shouldn’t overshadow the many other accomplishments in his successful, if brief, NBA career. In his 10 years with the Knicks, he was Rookie of the Year, a seven-time All-Star, two-time NBA Champ, two-time Finals MVP and also the MVP of the 1970 All-Star Game. Considered the greatest Knick ever by many New York fans, Reed was the captain of the franchise’s only two NBA championship teams. The injuries that created that defining moment also ended his career, and Reed retired after the ’73-74 season. He posted averages of 18.7 points and 12.9 rebounds over 650 games.—MC
32. Wes Unseld
Wes Unseld was an absolutely ferocious rebounder. Using his 6-7, 245-pound body to hold off any and all comers, he averaged 14 rpg for his career, along with 10.8 ppg and 3.9 apg. He was Finals MVP when the Bullets won the ’78 title. “Wes had some big scoring games, but his focus was on being a tough guy and leader and to get extra shots for his team,” recalls Dave Cowens, a regular opponent and fellow HOF member. “He could also throw the outlet pass better than anyone, whipping a two-handed pass all the way downcourt while still in the air.”—AP
33. Nate Thurmond
At a time when great centers roamed the NBA, Thurmond was a major interior force, even if he didn’t receive great attention. A product of Bowling Green University, Thurmond made an immediate impact with the San Francisco Warriors, who drafted him in 1963. During his 11 seasons there, he led the club to a pair of Finals appearances and played in six All-Star games. There was nothing flashy about Thurmond, who excelled at the defensive end and was a ferocious rebounder. Thurmond concluded his 14-year career with averages of 15.0 ppg and 15.0 rpg, not to mention the considerable respect of those who competed against him.—MB
34. Dolph Schayes
A 6-8, 220-pound forward, Schayes was named to a dozen consecutive All-Star games from 1951-62, leading the Syracuse Nationals to three Finals and the ’55 title. He had deep range on his set shot and unusual agility for a big man of his era. He retired in ’64 as the NBA’s all-time leading scorer (19,247 points). “Dolph was completely tenacious and he worked as hard as anyone ever could have,” recalls Bill Russell. Schayes’ opponents were forced to work equally hard or risk being embarrassed because he never quit moving, exhausting defenders with a style he once summed up simply: “Basketball is a game of movement, so move!”—AP
35. Walt Frazier
Those who follow the Knicks now know Frazier as the colorful wordsmith who covers them on the MSG Network. But back in the ’70s, Frazier was one of the best point guards in the League and skillfully weaved his way into seven All-Star appearances, four All-NBA First Team selections, seven All-Defense selections and two Knick championships. An accomplished defender who was known for his quick hands and unflappable personality, Clyde ended his decade-long Knicks career as the franchise’s career leader in assists and points. Selected to the NBA’s 50 Greatest Team, he finished with over 15,000 points and 5,000 assists.—KS
36. Patrick Ewing
Patrick Ewing was called a warrior so much it’s a wonder his No. 33 isn’t hanging in The Arena in Oakland. It does, however, hang in MSG, despite a tumultuous last few years in blue and orange and his ultimate failure to bring a title to New York. But, in his prime, the irascible (and often sweat-soaked) Ewing was perhaps the best jump-shooting center in NBA history, a shot-altering force in the middle, and the last line of a ferocious blue-collar defense. A fierce and proud competitor to the end, Ewing was the League’s first true warrior.—R. Bengtson
37. Jerry Lucas
Jerry Lucas was one of only two players selected out of high school in the NBA’s old territorial draft, picked by the Cincinnati Royals in 1959. When he finally joined the team (and Oscar Robertson) in ’64, the 6-8, 230-pound PF averaged 17.7 ppg and 17.4 rpg and was named ROY. The next season he went for 21.4 ppg and 20 rpg to become just the third “20-20” player in League history. He is also one of only four guys to get 40 rebounds in a game. Lucas finished his 11-year career in New York, and when the Knicks won the ’73 title, it gave Lucas championships in high school, college, the Olympics and the NBA. “Jerry combined skill, hard work, determination, knowledge of the game and raw intelligence as well as anyone,” says Clyde Frazier.—AP
38. Gary Payton
Some guys are handed nicknames, but the only way you get a name like The Glove is by earning it. He played with a feral, confrontational quality unusual for point guards. He intimidated 95 percent of the guards in the League with that style and dominated best point guard in the League discussions for the entire ’90s. His nine All-Star Game selections are bolstered by nine All-Defense First Team selections and highlighted by his Defensive Player of the Year Award in ’96 (the only PG to ever win that honor), the season he led the Seattle SuperSonics to the NBA Finals. After stints with the Celtics and Lakers, he reemerged with the Heat and hit the key shot in Game 3 of the ’06 Finals, capping a Hall of Fame career with a deserved Championship ring.—KS
39. Allen Iverson
“We talking about practice?” One of the most memorable quotes in basketball history, and oddly enough it came from a man who led the League in scoring four times, averaged 27 ppg for his career and made 10 All-Star games all while being constantly injured and extremely undersized. Generously listed at 6-0, Allen Iverson banged with the best and played through every injury short of a broken leg. But still, “We are talking about practice, not a game.” Not the game? He was League MVP, All-Star MVP twice and ROY. “We are talking about practice.” There is no question about his dedication, heart, love, nor individual talent. But while you may question how AI will solidify his place among the greats, only he knows. Because Allen Iverson is still The Answer.—KP
40. Billy Cunningham
They didn’t call him the Kangaroo Kid for nothing. A 6-6, 220-pound small forward, Billy Cunningham used his outstanding hops to dominate from the wing. From 1968-72, he grabbed between 11.7 and 13.6 rpg, along with 24.3 ppg and 4.6 apg. That was after he served as an electrifying sixth man on the 68-13 1967 Sixers and before he went to the ABA and was MVP of the League. A blown knee prematurely ended his career in ’75, but Cunningham earned another ring as coach of the ’83 Sixers. “I’d like to take credit for the jumping but it was a God-given talent,” says Cunningham, a Brooklyn native who spent countless hours on the playground. “It was easy to develop a game because we just played so much against so many great players.”—AP
41. Clyde Drexler
Clyde Drexler wasn’t your typical superstar. A sublimely brilliant all-around guard, the high-flying Drexler simply kept his head down—on and off the court—and never stopped moving. Drafted out of Houston in ‘83, he led the Blazers to two Finals appearances, in ‘90 and ‘92, finally winning a championship with Houston in ’95. But he wasn’t just hanging on to get a ring—that year he led the Rockets in points, assists and steals. Yet, polite to the end, he chose to walk away. “I think it’s better to go before you’re asked,” Drexler once told me. “I worked too hard to develop those skills to see them atrophy.”—RB
42. LeBron James
There is no number that better describes the difficulty of doing an all-time player list than this one. Forty-two for LeBron James? I’m writing this in mid-May. Will he vault to 37 if the Cavs win the title this year? Who knows? And who cares? He’s here, in the conversation, in his sixth season and still shy of his 25th birthday. Ignore the marketing and the talc showers. The stats, not to mention the opinions of his rivals and peers, do not lie; being ranked No. 42 right now is irrelevant. King James’ destiny is single-digit.—RJ
43. Dominique Wilkins
Dominique Wilkins was called the Human Highlight Film, but it wasn’t only because of his dunking. Nique had a deadly mid-range game, an array of off-the-glass jumpers, and he developed into a reliable three-point shooter. Still, it was the dunks that made Nique greater than so many of his peers. In fact, if he’d played during the YouTube era, he’d probably be five or six slots higher on our list. Playing the majority of his career in the same conference as Larry Bird and Michael Jordan kept Nique from ever making it to the NBA Finals. But for fans of basketball played above the rim, nobody did it better than Dominique Wilkins. Ever.—LW
44. Dave Cowens
While Cowens is the last of the eight Celtics in our 50, he is also the most unique of them. Cowens accumulated a solid resume: 17.6 ppg, 13.6 rpg, two NBA Titles and an MVP award. But this doesn’t tell the whole story of the 6-9 center’s 11-year run. Always hyperactive and tenacious on the court, Cowens was just as eccentric off of it—retiring once mid-season, driving a taxi cab during another. The fact that he was able to do so much on the court while doing so much off it is a testament to his greatness.—TT
45. George Gervin
The “Iceman” ruled over his 13 pro seasons with some of the coldest scoring skills in the history of the game. A 12-time NBA or ABA All-Star, Gervin was regularly among the top NBA scorers, including four finishes as the League’s leader. Famous for his Afro, skin-and-bones body type and for pioneering the finger roll, Gervin’s 26,595 career points, two 30-plus ppg seasons and All-Star Game MVP trophy keep his legacy frozen in time. As if that wasn’t enough, he’s also the only guy to be teammates of both Julius Erving and Michael Jordan. Although he never won a title or League MVP, Gervin was one of the most dangerous offensive threats of any era.—MC
46. Bob McAdoo
If it weren’t for McAdoo’s second act as a standout reserve on four Laker Finals teams, few would remember the sweet-shooting forward for anything other than controversy. A star at UNC, he joined the Buffalo Braves in 1972 and became an immediate sensation, winning three scoring titles. But McAdoo clashed with ownership midway through the ’75-76 season and began a five-team odyssey that eventually brought him to the Lakers. Though a former MVP, McAdoo thrived in a reserve role and played big parts on L.A.’s ’82 and ’85 title teams. He finished his career as a star in the Italian League.—MB
47. Earl Monroe
At 6-3, Earl Monroe couldn’t get over you. At 190 pounds, he couldn’t go through you. So he had to figure out how to go around you. And go around you Monroe did, with a dizzying arsenal of spins and dribbles that left opponents clutching at air. A four-time All-Star with the Knicks and Bullets, Earl the Pearl’s blacktop-bred game occasionally even left him wondering. “The thing is, I don’t know what I’m going to do with the ball,” Monroe once said. “And if I don’t know, I’m quite sure the guy guarding me doesn’t know either.”—R. Bengtson
48. Dennis Rodman
How did Dennis Rodman become the best rebounder ever? Divine intervention. Over (growing nine inches between his 19th and 20th birthdays) and over (drafted a Bad Boy) and over. At 19, Dennis Rodman was a 5-9 twerp, hanging out in malls, stealing cheap watches. By 30, he was gathering over 25 percent of the rebounds on the court. Plainly, Dennis knew before everyone else where the rebound would be. You know what was craziest about the Worm? His “court sense.” How else, in basketball’s modern age, could a 36-year-old possibly average 15 rebounds for an entire season?—RN
49. Walt Bellamy
Walt Bellamy had one of the greatest rookie seasons in NBA history, averaging 31.6 ppg and 19 rpg season for the Chicago Packers after being the top pick in the ’61 Draft. “Bells” played in 1,043 of 1,055 games during his 14-year career and retired in ’74 as the sixth-leading scorer (20,941 points, 20.1 ppg) and third all-time rebounder (14,241 rebounds, 13.1 rpg). He is in great company as one of only seven players to score 20,000 points and grab 14,000 boards, along with Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Elvin Hayes, Robert Parish, Moses Malone and Karl Malone.—AP
50. Steve Nash
At 6-2, maybe 190 pounds, Nash has scored over 13,000 points and dished over 7,500 assists in his 13 NBA seasons. But more relevantly, he won two MVP awards with a couple of eye-popping seasons in Phoenix. Were his numbers inflated from playing in Mike D’Antoni’s system? Maybe. But as Nash himself told me a few years ago, “It was from team play and it was how well our team did that made me the MVP. I owe it all to my teammates, and I realize it’s unique. It’s good for kids and good for the game that the MVP was awarded to someone who won it in a team setting.”—LW
- Jerry Buss: Gambler, Not a Big Fan of Title Parades
- Yao Ming Knows Nothing of These Cleveland Rumors
- T-Wolves Prez on the Mark Jackson Situation
- Lamar Odom: Socialite
- Knicks and Blazers Want the Charles Oakley Experience
- Monta Ellis Wants to Retire in Oakland
- Obama and Wade May Play One-on-One
- Andre Iguodala: Sued for Child Support
- Dirk Requests Sole Custody of Child
- More News and Rumors »
- Protege Stackjack
- Kobe: I’m Coming Back
- SLAMonline Mock Draft: Slava Kravtsov, No. 28
- Links: Looking Back at the 2009 Playoffs
- Jerry Buss: Gambler, Not a Big Fan of Title Parades
- Yao Ming Knows Nothing of These Cleveland Rumors
- T-Wolves Prez on the Mark Jackson Situation
- Two Feet
- Video: Pangos All American Camp 2009
Rookie of the Year (1970)
Six-time NBA champion (1971, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988)
Most Valuable Player (1971, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1977, 1980) Holds NBA career record for:
Most points - 38,387
Most minutes played (57,446)
Most field goals made (15,837)
Most field goals attempted (28,307)
Most All-Star selections (19)
Most All-Star games played (18)
The Kareem part and the Shaq part are the only real crazy things on the list.
And it’s not like his team “magically” drafted Kareem and got better. Robertson was TRADED to the team that drafted Kareem, and TOGETHER they won an NBA championship. You can easily say Kareem only won that championship because ROBERTSON got traded to that team. Ya dig?
Coincidence?
MJ
Wilt
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Oscar
Shaq
Bird
Hakeem
Duncan Top ten without MJ gracing the earth
Wilt
Russell
Kareem
Hakeem - add a title maybe, one more MVP
Magic
Larry
Thomas - add 1/2 titles, maybe an MVP or two
Malone (Karl) - add 1/2 titles
Shaq
Duncan
MJ
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Kobe- had 5 to 7 years to add one more Chip
Duncan- Malone is better to me-just no Chips
Shaq- One MVP, career is over
Oscar- has one Chip
THE REAL TOP 10,
MJ
Russell
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Kobe- has 5 to 7 years to add one more Chip
Duncan- Malone is better to me-just no Chips
Shaq- One MVP, career is over
Oscar- has one Chip
Dwayne Wade really deserves top-50 credit, I’m not sure why people are so willing to put Lebron on a top 50 but not Dwayne.
The Seed, by your logic, should Robert Horry be ranked like, 2nd on your list? I dont’ get this championship nonsense. Winning a ring isn’t everything in basketball.
I know he isn’t liked here, but why Lebron and not Dirk, who has accomplished more than him?
He, to me, changed the NBA as being the first european to ever win an MVP is something special. He brought european based basketball players into ranks they havent been in before (maybe peja that one year). Furthermore, which 7-footer ever shot the ball as well as him…
I think that wouldve deserved a spot in the top 50 and nash definently doesn’t have the impact on the game that dirk has
a career shouldn’t be measured by rings
And I’ll pretext all that by saying it’s not unthinkable to have Nash in the top 50, it really isn’t, there are just probably some better choices. Shaq at 4 is still bizarre though.
Seppo: Back in the day, the talent wasn’t there, true, although I do think Chamberlain and Russel were athletic enough to be dominant in today’s league. Havlicek is different though, Havlicek balled throughout the 70s and was QUITE effective. The 70s was real physical ball, fast paced too, quite comparable to today’s league (I think, anyway…)
Bryan: New crew, new opinions. It’s not like the list is constantly changing because of new evidence or anything like that.
Kareem should be above Shaq. Magic should be above the Big O. You seem to put too much emphasis on stats. So what if Robertson averaged a triple double? So what if Wilt averaged 50ppg in a season? Those are amazing numbers, sure, but you at SLAM are sometimes blinded by impressive stats. Not only did Oscar only one one ring, the rest of his career was full of underachieving teams. Magic played in 9 NBA finals. Not so with Wilt, who played in a LOT of conference finals and NBA finals, but Russell was the greatest champion.
PF: Duncan, Pettit, Malone, Barkley
SF: Bird, Baylor, Dr. J, Hondo
SG: MJ, West, Kobe, Drexler
PG: Oscar, Magic, Isiah, Stockton, Cousy For the most part, I agree with these rankings. The two that jump out are Shaq over Kareem and Oscar over Magic. Kareem wins out over Shaq 6 to 1 in MVPs and 6 to 1 in titles. I also give him points for having a much better movie career. Oscar was great, but Magic won 3 MVPs and 5 titles in a shorter career. The ranking doesn’t make sense unless you’re penalizing Magic for his atrocious grasp of the English language or “The Magic Hour”.
One on one, yeah, I’ll give it to you, DJ probably could have taken out Nash. Congratulations.
And incase you were wondering, NO ONE thought the Heat could beat the Pistons that year. And everyone was right.
Eboy: Why couldn’t Bruce Bowen guard a point guard? It’s not like he’s taking Aaron Brooks, Steve Nash isn’t that explosive. Are you saying the Spurs didn’t have anyone who could properly cover Steve Nash?
Also, I agree, Gary Payton and Stockton were better than Nash. I’m glad we can agree on that. Thumbs up for you too many!
“When challenged, Wilt could do almost anything he wanted. In 1961 a new star named Walt Bellamy came into the league. Bellamy was 6-foot-10, and was scoring 30 points a game. First time they played against each other, they met at half court. Bellamy said, ‘Hello, Mr. Chamberlain. I’m Walter Bellamy.’ Chamberlain reached for Bellamy’s hand and said, ‘Hello, Walter. You won’t get a shot off in the first half.’ Wilt then blocked Bellamy’s first nine shots. At the start of the second half Wilt said to Bellamy, ‘Okay, Walter. Now you can play.’”
Well, guess Pop-a-zit REALLY made a mistake on that one, huh!!!
Joel O: Well, I’d say that if it wasn’t for the Spurs, the mob, David Stern and Robert Horry’s hip…. but that’s just digressing.
Nash in his Dallas days would still kill Dennis Johnson.
Kevin Johnson is another dude who is rated way too high for his own good. I have argued this wit5h both Walsh AND Allen. People look at his stats and say “WOW! THIS GUY WAS GREAT!” But he couldn’t hit anything out of 15 feet, making him a terribly unclutch player… and his stats dropped pretty considerably when Barkley joined the team, meaning Johnson had to be “the man” to get his points and assists, like a poor man’s Iverson. He never impressed me, and I DID watch him during his prime (unlike other cats I like to speak with authority on).
That has nothing to do with Nash being better than all these other point guard cats you named! I’m not arguing Nash’s inclusion in the top 50 list, he doesn’t belong there!
Your last part about Nash and Shaq made me laugh though.
still asking myself, why the chief missed the cut? and the pistol?
I’m actually a little surprised… everyone’s so angry that Hakeem is below Shaq, but I don’t see a lot of Jabbar support.
I mean, you do know Jabbar was the -BEST- center ever, purely offensively, right? (That should generate plenty of discussion)
jumpman3224: I said Wade was a top-10 shooting guard, not Eboy. Eboy actually laughed at me a year ago when I said that.
And, according to this list, Iverson is probably the fourth greatest shooting guard of all time, and top ten guards period. I can live with that.
Bryan: Lightyears is a little harsh but…
Eboy: I’d choose Bird on my team over Shaq every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Cause, you know, Sunday you pick players twice or something.
You still riding that “Nash is better than KJ” train?
Based on what? The MVPS? Check the stats homie, and watch the film. KJ eats Nash up all day and all night.
And about David Robinson he was not shabby himself I will show stats, thats why you can argue with him being around Shaq
NBA Champion (1999, 2003)
NBA MVP (1995)
NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1992)
NBA Rookie of the Year (1990)
All-NBA First Team (1991, ‘92, ‘95, ‘96)
All-NBA Second Team (1994, ‘98)
All-NBA Third Team (1990, ‘93, 2000, ‘01)
All-Defensive First Team (1991, ‘92, ‘95, ‘96)
All-Defensive Second Team (1990, ‘93, ‘94, ‘98)
10-time NBA All-Star
Only player in NBA history to win the Rebounding, Blocked Shots, and Scoring Titles and Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year and MVP
One of only four players to have recorded a quadruple-double
NBA Sportsmanship Award (2001)
Third player in NBA history to rank among the league’s top 10 in five categories in one season (7th in scoring (23.2 ppg), 4th in rebounding (12.2 rpg), 1st in blocks (4.49 per game), 5th in steals (2.32 per game) and 7th in field-goal percentage (.551))
First player in NBA history to rank among the top five in rebounding, blocks and steals (per game) in a single season[6]
Fourth player ever to score 70+ in an NBA game
3-time Olympian (1988, ‘92, ‘96)
One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996)
Led NBA in Scoring (1993–94 season) - 29.8 ppg
Led NBA in Rebounding (1990–91 season) - 13.0 rpg
Led NBA in Blocked Shots (1991–92 season) - 4.49 bpg
Holds record for most IBM Awards (1990, ‘91, ‘94, ‘95, ‘96)
Gold Medal in 1986 FIBA World Championship.[12]
Member of Dream Team #1 during Olympic Games at Barcelona.
Elected into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame.
Elected to the U.S. Olympic Hall of Fame Class of 2008
We can start the debate all over again, both make good points and then get angry at each other, or I can just sigh and accuse you of hating Steve Nash because he’s white. I’ll choose the latter.
And, I would pick Shaq over Russell to start a team if I needed an alpha scorer. If I needed a defender and team player, I would probably pick Russell. But, I agree with Myles on Hakeem, Wilt and Kareem being better than Shaq. I choose all three of them first because they are better alpha scorers and complete players. I don’t think Russell is a more complete player than Shaq, but he has crazy intangibles.
It ain’t ’cause he’s white. But, you’re right, it makes no sense to go back down that road. However, ever time you say “Nash > KJ” I will bust your chops.
Myles: I want to shake your hand and then pat you on the back. Your logic is unreasonably correct today.
quick reminder: shaq may have been swept out of that houston series, but he was not totally OWNED like a certain season mvp was…
since it’s legitimate to include people on this list based on “what ifs” (number 42, i’m looking at you):
IF shaq had the work ethic of one kobe bryant, we would be discussing whether he is worthy of number 1 or not.
sadly, he’s a lazy f*ck and has to live with no4
Scare a whole decade of 7-footers, including all-time greats like TD, into playing PF
Gotta disagree. When I look at most of the cats on the list I can pick out flaws in their games, and with some of the stalwarts (Magic, Bird, Russell) the flaws are not small.
I think Shaq had flaws, but his dominance approached Wilt’s dominance. Plus, people underestimate the way Shaq made the game so much easier for role players. All great players make the game easier, but Shaq was on another level.
So, I think he’s third or fourth best center of all-time. And I think if I was picking a team, I’m picking the big fellow over Magic and Bird. Cause big men are the answer.
Shaq had a lot of flaws, but cats acting like David Robinson didn’t. Come on now.
How about KJ, Kidd, Marion, Dirk, Amare, Joe Johnson and Shaq?
Hmmmm…
Throwing out names is wack. Yeah, Iverson had good teammates at times, but the point was that in his absolute prime, his teammates weren’t up to snuff.
If we’re comparing numbers alone, through their first six seasons, Lebron tops Kobe.
Wilt and Kareem top everybody.
They were what, average man-to-man defenders, even though they were great at disrupting passing lanes and fantastic team defenders?
Magic only had a good three-point shot at the end of his career (like Jordan?). Bird was not as fast as most of his legendary peers (even though his speed is greatly downplayed, he was faster than your average player).
I mean, in my opinion, Magic and Bird were COMPLETE players. Period. What flaws do you see in them?
And just so you know, I was responding to Don saying “IF IVERSON HAD SOMEONE BETTER THAN…” you think if Iverson had Carmello, or Webber, or Rasheed, with the way that team was built, he could have beat the Lakers with prime Shaq and near prime Kobe?
I’d say it would still be five games.
Can’t argue with that. Shaq benefited from having Kobe, Penny and Wade. Anybody who disagrees with that is a fool.
But, it’s not like Robinson had NOBODY. And, the truth is, he won two rings with Duncan, but they were also routinely dominated by Shaq and the Lakers.
So, Shaq is flawed, every player is flawed. I don’t think Shaq is the fourth best of all time, because I think Hakeem, Kareem and Wilt were better than him, along with Jordan and potentially Magic and Oscar.
I think a valid argument can be made for Shaq being better than anybody else after those cats.
im sick of all this jordan’s the best ever crap….wilts got better stats, russells got more rings, kobes got better D, dr.j’s a better dunker….man…
Shaq to Phoenix? I think that didn’t work out for a number of reasons. He *did* revive his career over the last season or two, to his credit. But the Suns movement away from their competitive edge, loss of D’Antoni, and then haphazard move to restore the run-and-gun game with Gentry has set them back years. Also, Marion. I can’t really blame Shaq for all that.
That being said, your statement was incorrect!
Comparing people based on numbers without giving consideration to what you saw on the floor is a problem.
Jukai: Who else has led the L in scoring rebounding and blocks and won ROY, DPOY and MVP?
When Kobe was just shy of his 25th birthday, he was a three time NBA champion.
Not hatin on the player, just sick of the James-Jones lovefest
Penny Hardaway as the point, Tracy McGrady as guard, Grant Hill as my small forward, Alanzo Mourning at the four spot, and Big Bill Walton at my five.
Chris Webber would be sixth man of my team.
Rack up the second unit with Shaun Livingston, Doug Collins, Darius Miles, and Ralph Sampson.
Drazen Petrovic and Len Bias ’round up that motley crew.
I’m sure Sugar Ray Richardson and David Thompson want in, but getting arrested or falling down stairs because of coke doesn’t count.
Yao Ming and Greg Oden could become a vital part of this team very soon.
I want to put Bernard King in, but I think we SAW Bernard King’s ceiling… and then he got injured. Same with Connie. I don’t think anyone on my list, you can really say you saw the TOP of their game (even Bill Walton was constantly hurt throughout college and never played 75 games in the NBA. That was sure to hurt his mobility: imagine what he’d have been if he wasn’t always hurt!)
There are two things that hold me back with Shaq:
1- I think you’re underrating how dominante Kareem and Chamberlain were. Neither of them could be touched by anyone. Chamberlain certainly far more than Shaq (if you read what Elvin Hayes, Artis Gilmore, Nate Thurmond had to say… they were SCARED to go against this guy, scared of getting hurt!) but I guess you could argue that Chamberlain was just so much stronger than anyone back in that time, it was logical to be fearful… I just think Chamberlain, from all accounts, is as strong (maybe slightly weaker, not in physical strength but just the lack of gurth), and faster and jumps higher than Shaq… so why wouldn’t people fear him more?
Kareem didn’t strike fear into people the same way Shaq did… but I think he was MORE dominant. It was pretty much, if Kareem’s skyhook was hitting, you lost the game. There was no way to defend it. The dude was 7′2, and he had the wingspan as big as my body, and he was arching his body as high as it would go to get the ball off. I know of three people who blocked it, EVER, in all the time that Kareem has used it. Kareem would run and finish the fast break (even at 35!) he’d catch alley-oop dunks, he’d fade for points over smaller defenders, he wasn’t your typical “GRIND IT OUT AND DOMINATE” center but I think he was just as dominating in terms of his ability to score and change the game. And he was a better defender. So there.
Hakeem and Shaq are a little bit more preferecial to me. Shaq was more dominating, but Hakeem, I don’t know, he just seemed that much more skilled. That could push someone around and drag three defenders all game, but that’s a slow, grind them out game. Sure, Shaq had the twirl, he had ups to get alleyoops, he had a somewhat reliable chamberlain-like fingerroll/flick… but it was a limited arsenal. Hakeem could score faster with post moves that would make McHale cry. That to me is just superior offense. Domination isn’t necessarily as useful as downright effectiveness.
David Robinson isn’t even close to Shaq.
Anyways, this is awesome.
Should Shaq automatically get more credit for his 4 rings than Hakeem with his two rings, even though Shaq had so much more help on his team. Should Julias Erving get docked for only having one NBA ring when he spent most of his prime in the ABA winning rings over there?
Should Robert Horry be in the top ten with his seven rings?
Here are some neato facts about Chamberlain!!!
-He was a high jumper in college, jumping over six feet in the high jump
-In pregame and halftime shows, he would dunk on 12-foot baskets to entertain people
-He once dunked a ball so hard, it rocketed through the hoop and hit Red Kerr in the foot, shattering his toe.
-He once caught someone’s dunk attempt in mid air and the sudden force caused the opposing player’s (I forget the dude’s name, saw it on NBA TV) back to be thrown
-Chamberlain had a consistant hook shot, finger roll, and turnaround jumper. Many people think Chamberlain could have even broken 50 points a game if he had constantly taken the ball to the hole, instead of screwing around with trick shots.
-Chamberlain led the league in assists (7.3 a game!!!!). Please note, it was much hard to get assists back in those days. It’s entirely possible that 7.3 could have been ten assists a game in today’s game. That’s approaching triple double territory.
-On the same note, Chamberlain once had a 20-20-20 game. Only person in history to do so.
-He also was able to play an entire 48 minute season, proving he has immense stamina.
-TIME magazine reported that Chamberlain was outsprinting Jabbar on the break in the 1972 NBA WCF. This was when Jabbar was 24 and Chamberlain was 34.
So, tell me, with his immense strength, speed, stamina and agility, how the HELL could the dude not dominate in today’s league? This is not George Mikan we’re talking about. Chamberlain was the most effective scorer ever, and I have no doubt that if Chamberlain played today, he’d go for something like 35-15-6 with four blocks a game. While playing 44 minutes a game. Easy.
WHAT?! THERE’S NO REGGIE MILLER? ARE YOU SERIOUS???????
West would be going to the line every twenty seconds in today’s league.
Khalid: Jabbar PROBABLY would have trouble guarding Shaq, he has height but that’s it. Chamberlain would get pushed into the post but he’d block a helluva lot of Shaq’s shots simply because he could jump twice as high as Shaq could. Hell, a 35 year old Chamberlain can probably jump higher than Shaq in his prime, I mean that, for real.
But the spirit was there.
NBA.com says Wilt came in the league a 275 or so, but was up over 300 most of his career to deal with all the abuse he was taking.
I think Wilt and Shaq had similar body types until Shaq just went off the deep end into fatness.
Myles is making a good point. If you are UNSTOPPABLE your team cannot keep getting swept. You can lose, but youc an’t keep getting swept in your prime. And it’s not like Shaq was out their alone. He was getting SWEPT with Penny, Nick Van Exel, Kobe and Eddie Jones on his team.
Those old Lakers teams had Eddie Jones, Nick, George Lynch, Elden Campbell, Derek Fisher and I think Rick Fox. And they were getting SWEPT by Utah and San Antonio.
That’s wack to me.
I sort of agree with Khalid on the issue on the relevance of Shaq getting sweeped. Michael Jordan got swept, multiple times.
ALSO something very entertaining, from the wiki entry on Jordan:
Jordan was born in Brooklyn, New York, the son of Deloris (née Peoples), who worked in banking, and James R. Jordan, Sr., an equipment supervisor.[5] His family moved to Wilmington, North Carolina, when he was a toddler.[6][7] Jordan attended Emsley A. Laney High School in Wilmington, where he anchored his athletic career by playing baseball, football, and basketball. He tried out for the varsity basketball team during his sophomore year, but at 5′11″ (1.80 m), he was deemed too short to play at that level and was cut from the team. His taller friend, Harvest Leroy Smith, was the only sophomore to make the team.[8]
Read the last part! I love Wikipedia.
I remember Mike getting swept by the Celtics and the Bad Boy Pistons, one time each.
Who else swept him?
Getting swept by those two teams with the talent Mike had around him and given the point he was at in his career is not the same as what happened to Shaq.
You missed it with that one.
Jukai, I only remember Mike getting swept twice. By the Bird Celtics and Bad Boy Pistons, and that was early in his career when he basically had nothing around him.
Shaq was getting swept when he had All-Stars riding with him.
Also, I understand that Lakers swept the Spurs, but if I remember correctly, that was the year when Kobe averaged damn near 40 for the series.
I’m not a known Shaq hater. Myles is making great points and you are casting asperions cause you disagree with him.
Shaq was stupid dominant, but he did not have a better career, nor was he a better player than Kareem or Wilt.
Both players were EASILY as dominant as Shaq.
I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think being swept really should count against Shaq THAT much.
I mean, this is creepy. Me and Myles are being generally agreeable. This never happens.
@Bryan: Agreed on Jason Kidd. He gives you no scoring, at all.
Other issues:
- Shaq is obviously way too high
- Hakeen is definitely underrated
- Steve Nash………come on, SLAM.
- Cousy: Not going to lie, never saw him play with the exception of a few tapes. And yes, numbers do not mean everything. But you can’t be 24th greatest with those numbers. No you cannot.
- LeBron, his spot at 42 is not as egregious as Nash’s inclusion, but if the annointed one makes it — why not Wade?
WTH? Did you just call Mutombo one of the greatest ever at center?
Nah homie, you need more people.
Myle
Nique might be better than AI. Maybe. But, you need to explain this Drexler fascination. Seriously, I watched Clyde, he was a beast. But, what he did well, Iverson did better. Period.
And Cousy is living off hype. SUB 40 PERCENT SHOOTING FOR HIS CAREER!
Dude regularly shot like 38 percent from the floor. Do y’all realize how many shots you have to take to average 18 points for your career with no three point line if you shoot that low of a percentage? Do you really?
You seen tape of West?
He was a killer shooter and had a knack for scoring.
Are we arguing “Let’s transplant these old players to the present day with no changes” or are we saying “Would this same player have prospered if they came up during this era?”
I firmly believe that with his athletic talent, West would have incorporated the advances in the modern game into his arsenal and been a killer.
Why don’t you?
Oscar, West, Chamberlain, Barry, Thurmond, Gilmore, Baylor, these cats could come into the league and wreck 95% of everyone there.
They weren’t unathletic, they had amazing fundamentals, and they played in a day where basketball was a lot rougher than the ‘tap-to-the-foul-line’ play of today’s league.
Yes, they played in an age where the movements were slower and the shots were fired off quicker. So? They’d just speed up their pace and take more time to get a shot off. Would they all have the same stats? No, probably not. Rebounding numbers specifically would drop. Points? Maybe a bit, but I’d argue for some, they’d rise. Assists would skyrocket. They’d be getting to the line every five seconds with the punishment they’re used to taking. These guys would be all-first team and all-stars every year.
Stop doubting them. It doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Clyde was first and foremost a scorer. Iverson was a better scorer. Clyde was better at rebounding, Iverson was better at passing.
As far as co-existing, I would argue that Iverson was fine in Detroit until Curry started screwing up people’s minutes and people accused him of faking an injury.
But, I understand the argument cats make for Drexler, I just disagree, but it’s all opinion.
So, was Elgin Baylor a better scorer than Drexler? His shooting percentage was about 42 percent.
If I remember correctly, you were on the Gilbert Arenas bandwagon, isn’t he around 43 percent?
I contend that Iverson was a better scorer than Drexler based on the creativity with which Iverson got his points and the pressure he put on defenses.
Do you disagree?
Besides, from what I can tell from the career stats, Drexler started off hot from the field, but his percentage plummeted during the last eight years of his career.
Allen, you gotta go back and look at Glyde if you think he was just a scorer. He was just a scorer in the same way Jordan was just a scorer.
Kobe
DWade
Brandon Roy
Ginobili
Joe Johnson Largely beacuse he’s too small/slow to guard any of them And that doesn’t include the combo guards like Monta and AI, or the chronically injured TMac.
I would argue that Drexler’s superior team success was a byproduct of the teams he had. He wasn’t carrying bums.
Oh, and Jukai, he demanded a trade too.
1. Magic
2. Jordan
3. Jabbar
4. Wilt
5. Russel
6. Bird
7. Kobe
8. Shaq
9. Oscar
10.Olajuwon
11. West
12. Duncan
13. Baylor
14. M.Malone
15. Pettit
16. K.Malone
17. J.Stockton
18. C.Barkley
19. Dr.J
20. Bob Cousy
WHERE WAS BERNARD?
lol alright I’ll stop complaining… maybe.
Not saying it was AI’s fault, Carmello and Iverson just never got the hang of playing together. Neither one of them could not be ‘the man.’
I think Iverson pretty much won ‘the man’ status in Denver over Carmello (for the sole fact that he’s better) and that’s why Carmello looked lost, and many times simply outplayed. Suddenly Iverson is going and we’re looking at Carmello saying “holy cow, was he this good all along?” No, but now that Iverson’s gone, he can be the man and be that good again.
Mutombo was a better scorer, but not really astronomically better. Neither were good passers at all.
You can’t argue with this though, Jukai: Pistol Pete should be on that darn list.
I’m a little upset Bill Walton didn’t make it, but oh well
and Shaq over Kareem is bs
BUT……………
Walton over Nate Thurmon, hands down.
Maravich over Iverson (and most anyone else who ever tried to guard him..)
Kareem and Chamberlain were both better offensively than Shaq. If they ever called a proper offensive foul, Shaq would not score at all. He just bulldozes a guy. He could never do that to Kareem or Wilt. Both were better by a country mile. Both were far superior athletes who could really move and jump. Shaq was floor bound by comparison.
I think Rick Barry was way ahead of Barkley, cause he was such a great passer and made everyone around him better. Having played pro myself, and seen these guys up close, I feel confident on these things.
jason kidd 28? not in a million years. I doubt he would make my top 50 at all. Shaq can not be that high. His seeding is bad. For both things I would really like to know how that went down in the slam rooms. I just dont see it happening and would sure as hell like to know how….
The Shaq thing is iffy. It seems the majority of writers and interns thought Shaq should be 7-12, but the editors (guys who make final decisions) thought Shaq was GOAT v2. So, there ya go.
Magic > Oscar.
1.Jabbar
2. Wilt
3. Russel
4. Shaq
5. Olajuwon I know Russel won 11 Rings but he did most of it with 3-5 HOF and just 8 teams in the NBA.
So mabye Shaq should be over Russel but not over Wilt and Jabbar.
Russell
Wilt
Oscar
Shaq
Bird
Kareem
Magic
Kobe
Duncan TOP 10 in 10 years: MJ
Kobe (bring on the haters)
Russell
Wilt
Oscar
Shaq
Lebron
Bird
Kareem
Magic
KG is listed WAYYYY TO LOW…what the hell…
AI should be no higher than 50
2. MJ
3.Kobe
4.magic
5.russel
6.bird
7.russel
8. wilt the stilt
9.the logo
10.duncan
2. MJ took elgin baylors and dr J’s moves and perfected them to win 6 rings number 3 all time scorer
3.Kobe has 4 rings with at least 6 good year sin him left he also only needs to average 26 points a game for the next 6 years to pass kareem not including the playoffs
4.magic 5 rings best point guard of all time
5.russel best defensive/rebounding center ever 11 rings need i say more
6.bird probally the best player ever in the NBA that was as athletic as your everyday mail man
sharp shooter tough defense and court vision
7.olajuwon best center of his time dominated the most dominat force shaquile oneal
8. wilt the stilt suffers from the same aliment that shaq does in my eyes he was just bigger than everybody not actually better i pu thimon the list in said of shaq because both were dominant but wilt took the cake averaging 50 point a game in one season
9.duncan 4 rings 3 time mvp one should of went to ginobli but whos counting 24 and 12 guy his whole career best fundamental player ever
10.oscar robertson need i say more
If I’m going to talk about something like this, I should profess my ignorance first. I never watched the 80s Celtics play. I don’t know how great McHale was. I just read about him. From what I know, he was virtually unstoppable in the post and he was a helluva defensive player. Also, he had goofy-looking arms, which are always a plus. Now, as for Paul Pierce, who is about to turn 32, if he isn’t on this list yet, a couple of titles could squeeze him in, sure, I guess. But you mentioned him with Wade and CP3…THOSE guys are on a collision course with the Top 50.
Reggie Miller,
Nate Archibald,
James Worthy,
Dwyane Wade,
Robert Parish,
Pistol Pete Just off the top of my head.
I don’t know if that’s true when it comes to points and rebounds, but it certainly ISN’T true when it comes to assists. Oscar had to pass DIRECTLY to the guy shooting, who had to NOT take a dribble but IMMEDIATELY take a shot without dribbling or some weird sh*t like that. Point being, it was MUCH tougher to get credited for an assist back then.
To say that Oscar’s triple-double is skewed is unfair. At least the assists part. Because he had to find an open teammate, and then THE BALL COULDN’T TOUCH THE FLOOR FOR IT TO COUNT AS AN ASSIST. Do you realize how hard it is to AVERAGE a triple-double in those circumstances? In fact, I retract what I said earlier: Oscar > Magic.
Oh and to the person above who said Wilt “only” averaged 28 ppg against BILL FREAKIN RUSSELL, that is still a top 2 all time feat right there.
Pistol Pete > Jason Kidd.
Let’s say that the league suddenly said it only credits points to shots scored from 30 feet. Would more shot attempts mean more chances for points? NO, because it would freakin HARDER TO SCORE. Similarly, it WAS HARDER TO GET CREDITED FOR AN ASSIST back then. Now, Nash passes it to Am’a'r’e, who dribbles it a couple of times and then goes up and dunks it, and Nash gets an assist. If Oscar does the same thing back in the day, he doesn’t get an assist. It would be like the other guy “creating his own shot” or something. The ball COULD NOT TOUCH THE FLOOR for it to count as an assist. So more shot attempts DO translate to more points, sure. But not to more assists.
1.kareem leads all time scorers list and 6 rings to match
2. MJ took elgin baylors and dr J’s moves and perfected them to win 6 rings number 3 all time scorer
3.Kobe has 4 rings with at least 6 good year sin him left he also only needs to average 26 points a game for the next 6 years to pass kareem not including the playoffs
4.magic 5 rings best point guard of all time
5.russel best defensive/rebounding center ever 11 rings need i say more
6.bird probally the best player ever in the NBA that was as athletic as your everyday mail man
sharp shooter tough defense and court vision
7.olajuwon best center of his time dominated the most dominat force shaquile oneal
8. wilt the stilt suffers from the same aliment that shaq does in my eyes he was just bigger than everybody not actually better i pu thimon the list in said of shaq because both were dominant but wilt took the cake averaging 50 point a game in one season
9.duncan 4 rings 3 time mvp one should of went to ginobli but whos counting 24 and 12 guy his whole career best fundamental player ever
10.oscar robertson need i say more steve nash shouldnt be in there if it wasnt for the lying chickin colorado kobewould have 3 mvps instead of one
and chris paul isnt even close he has to do what hes been doing for the next ten years to be thought of so does james longevity equals greatness not just being athletic
I belive rick_ross55 to be a extreme butt-sexing male, judging by his name and his thinking Kobe is #3 overall NOW. Duncan>>>Kobe
Yeah, King AND Pistol deserve to be on this list obviously. But so does Iceman. I don’t know of ANYONE HERE who thinks otherwise.
Kareem should be top 5, not Shaq.
“I Am Shocked!! Shocked!!”
MJ
Russell
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Bird
Kobe- has 5 to 7 years to add one more Chip, if he adds two more, you put Kobe over Bird & Magic
Duncan- Malone is better to me-just no Chips
Shaq- One MVP, career is over, chasing Chips, traded 2 times maybe 3 in one decade, played for 4 teams, maybe 5 in one decade if traded again. The most dominate player is getting traded like he is Popeye Jones, not number 4.
Oscar- has one Chip
1 MJ
2 Magic
3 Wilt
4 Russell
5 Kareem (really, you can argue 3-5 any order, this is just how I put it)
6 Oscar
7 Shaq
8 Duncan
9 Bird
10 Kobe (For the record, I’d put West and Dream next)
THE REAL TOP 10
MJ
Russell
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Bird
Kobe- has 2 to 4 years to add one more Chip, if he adds one more over Bird, two more over Magic, they had more help than Kobe will have with more rings.
Duncan- Malone is better to me-just no Chips
Shaq- One MVP, career is over, chasing Chips, traded 2 times maybe 3 in one decade, played for 4 teams, maybe 5 in one decade if traded again. The most dominate player is getting traded like he is Popeye Jones, not number 4.
Oscar- has one Chip
I will go with Stats with you from the 84 to 87 Finals and you will see Bird had help, even getting outscore in the Finals to refute, your next statement Bird did it by himself.
84 Finals Bird 27, Johnson 17, Parish 15, Machale 13
85 Finals Mchale 26, Bird 23, Parish 17, Johson 16
86 Finals Mchale 25, Bird 24, Johson 17, Ainge 15
87 Finals Bird 24, Mchale 20, Parish 16, Johnson 21
Greenie, he had alot of help, Larry Bird, he is one of the greatest, but his sidekicks played better sometimes in the FINALS than him!!!!
-2000-2001 NBA MVP
-10 Time NBA All-Star
-Amazing career averages of 27.1 ppg (about 3rd all time)and 6.2 assists and 2.2 spg.
-4 time Scoring Champion
-3 time Steal Champion
-2 time All Star Game MVP
-1996-97 NBA All-Rookie (1st)
-1998-99 NBA All-NBA (1st)
-1999-00 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
-2000-01 NBA All-NBA (1st)
-2001-02 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
-2002-03 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
-2004-05 NBA All-NBA (1st)
-2005-06 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
-Took the 2001 Sixers who are arguably the least talented team in finals history. Even won em the first game. (48 points)
- Has 13 career 50 point games.
-Roughly 24,000 points
-5,511 assists Keep Hating.
I think somewhere Bill Russell said on a 1 to 10 scale, there were about 8 players who ranked 10 - meaning that none of them were any better than the other 10’s. Makes good sense. Baylor was in Russell’s top 10.
-2000-2001 NBA MVP
-10 Time NBA All-Star
-Amazing career averages of 27.1 ppg (about 3rd all time)and 6.2 assists and 2.2 spg.
-4 time Scoring Champion
-3 time Steal Champion
-2 time All Star Game MVP
-1996-97 NBA All-Rookie (1st)
-1998-99 NBA All-NBA (1st)
-1999-00 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
-2000-01 NBA All-NBA (1st)
-2001-02 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
-2002-03 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
-2004-05 NBA All-NBA (1st)
-2005-06 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
-Took the 2001 Sixers who are arguably the least talented team in finals history. Even won em the first game. (48 points)
- Has 13 career 50 point games.
-Roughly 24,000 points
-5,511 assists Keep Hating.
Shaq 8-12 Ft’s Shaq was always fine when it mattered most, please stop using FT’s. Wilt was much worse and so was Russell, please move on to something else.
Shaq 8-12 FT’s Shaq always hit his free throws when it mattered. Russell and Wilt were much worse at shooting FT’s so please bring up some other way to diss Shaq, move on.
Kareem KILLED Walton in their matchup, statistically he KILLED him. Walton had a better team and won. Please read up on your facts.
Kareem is pretty much better than Shaq in every category. Offensively, defensively, passing, rebounding, Kareem is just better.
Championships: Kareem six, Shaq four.
MVPs: Kareem six, Shaq one
All NBA: Kareem 15, Shaq 14 (and Kareem didn’t have third team all-nba to get on like Shaq does)
All-defense: Kareem 11, Shaq 3
So, tell me, how is Shaq better in, oh, anyway?
Kareem: 27.2-12.8-4.1-1.0-3.1
Shaq 24.7-11.2-2.6-0.6-2.4
So, yeah, I’m guessing Kareem is a superior player
Apparently, Lang wanted to put him at thirty or something.
Dr J should have been at 8-11. I know 15 doesn’t seem like THAT big of a jump, but it just seems like the dude is sort of pushed to the side. This guy was monstrous!
James The Balla: Enough about championships man. Chips are not basketball life. Lebron has achieved more in his six years than AI has achieved in his entire career, should we switch them, do you think?
This is post LA championship, I think Kobe has probably moved up a spot or two
“Bob Pettit > Julius Erving”
That’s funny. I mean that’s some comedy right there. For real. I can’t wait for the next installment when you inexplicably decide that George Mikan is better than Magic.
2- Wilt
3- Oscar
4- Magic
5- Kareem
6- Doc
7- Russell
8- Shaq
9- Duncan
10-Bird
11-Olajuwon
12-Kobe
13-Moses
14-Jerry West
15-Elgin Baylor And as for Bob Pettit, I wouldn’t rank him in the Top 20, to be honest. Great player, don’t get me wrong, but let’s not get crazy. OK, so you hung 50 on the Celtics. In the Finals. In the decisive Game 6. Does that make you better than, say, Isiah Thomas? Well, OK, yeah, it does, but it doesn’t make you better than Doc.
Well, first of all, I don’t want to define Doc as just a dunker. He was much more than that. He was much more complete than a Vince Carter or a Dominique Wilkins.
And as for “maybe Mike would have done it”. Well, maybe Michael Jackson would have been Michael Jackson without James Brown. Maybe, but I doubt it. You can’t be who you are in a vacuum. You have to build on what someone has built before you. It’s called influence.
Like, read some old articles or something, man. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
I like Dr. J at 8-11 because of the dude’s skill: a monster scorer, he was getting 25 points a game with 10 rebounds and five assists! He wasn’t a slacker on defense either, two steals and a block and half a game! Two ABA championships, an NBA championship, and a helluva lot of playoff and Finals appearances in both! He was a winner, he had the stats, he had the skills… sure, he was a bit turnover prone and had an AVERAGE shot (I hate people saying he had no jumper. It was streaky, but he had it!) but he was complete in every other way. Done deal.
Connie Hawkins doesn’t deserve to be on a top 50 list. I’d take Nash over him any day and twice Sunday. Did I already use that one?
2005: 18.8 ppg 10.5 apg
2006: 18.6 ppg 10.6 apg These are the two seasons for which Nash are included on this list. The main reasons, right? OK, forget the hardware and the politics, just look at the numbers. They’re pretty good, I admit. Not ASTRONOMICAL, but good. Now look at this: Kevin Johnson, who NOBODY mentioned as a snub for this list…let’s look at some of his numbers: in 1988: 20.4 ppg and 12.4 apg
in 1989: 22.5 ppg and 11.4 apg
in 1990: 22.0 ppg and 10.1 apg
in 1991: 19.7 ppg and 10.7 apg AND KJ, unlike Nash, went to the Finals with Barkley. AND he could play better defense. AND he dunked on Hakeem Olajuwon. So riddle me this: How in the name of f*ck is Steve Nash better than Kevin Johnson?
2) Wilt
3) MJ how can #1 be such consensus? C’mon, MJ was GREAT, but put the ’90’s Bulls into the ’80’s and they get 1 or 2 -maybe- 3 championships. MJ ALWAYS gets recognition, but older fans need to voice their opinions on what player was the BEST in the HISTORY of the game! Magic made the Showtime Lakers the greatest ever team, he must be recognized for that! He was flashiest/best PG, but what seperated him was that he also elevated the games of his teammates in a way no other player ever did, outside of Bill Russell. He is clearly the Greatest of All-Time! Don’t forget Wilt though! Wilt simply dominated, purely and simply, in a way it has NEVER been dominated before or since. Remember Wilt averaging 45 pts/24 rebounds a game over an entire season? Not to mention his 50+ scoring average in ‘61/62! C’mon! Yes, Jordan was/is/forever-will-be GREAT. He deserves to be up on a basketball Mt. Rushmore, that is for sure. HOWEVER he cannot be placed higher than Magic or Wilt, at their sides perhaps, but not higher!
Kevin Johnson shouldn’t be on here. I just brought him up as an example of how many players I can think of ahead of Nash. KJ, great as he was, is not a Top 50 player, but he was about 100 times better than Nash. I mean, how can people forget that? But there are other guys more deserving than KJ.
By the way, remember when we had that discussion about whether or not Horry should be in the Hall of Fame? How come nobody mentioned Horry over here in the Top 50? It’s because Horry wouldn’t be anywhere near a Top 250. Hence, he shouldn’t be in the HOF. He’s a hell of a clutch shooter, though.
————————————–
Oh wow. Can’t agree, I mean I can agree that he shouldn’t be in a top-50, but he would most probably be on the next-50, definitely in 50 after that if not. There was more than ability when measuring-up Horry’s game. I mean, his clutch shots ALONE makes him a great player, there are very few if any NBA players in history that have hit as many game-ending, clutch shots. But when one sees the intangibles he brings, his ball-movement on offense, the smart play, his hustle and his severely underrated defense, well he’s a borderline ‘great’. I mean, he probably played the best defense on #8 all-time Tim Duncan when he was on the Lakers than anyone. Don’t say Horry is not in the top-250 all-time Tariq, it hurts your cred on some other good arguments you make on other players in this thread…
Plus, I mean, KJ? I keep arguing with people over this. KJ wasn’t that fantastic. I mean, top-15 point guard of all time, but certainly not over Steve Nash. Dude had no range outside of ten feet, and I never thought of him as a great leader. Sure, when his team was absolutely terrible and no one else was doing anything, he was getting 20-10, but the moment Collangelo gathered a decent team with Barkley, Ainge, Rambis, KJ’s points AND assists dropped drastically. You’d think with shooters and one of the best finishers in the NBA, his points and assists would jump, but he just sort of took a back seat. He was sort of Allen Iverson-ish in that manner. I don’t know, he just never struck me as great, once the team became an actual contender, KJ sort of took a leap back. Nash, on the other hand, always upped his game in the playoffs. I guess people just look at KJ’s stats and make their own conclusions.
…I mean in MJ’s first 9 years he accomplished a heck of a alot. 3 rings, MVP’s, scoring titles. And at that point most people wouldn’t have put him top 20…
—————————————–
If you grew up with Jordan, than why would you say something so absolutely dumb? Nine years into Jordan’s career, he was pretty much considered the best of the best, period. There was no argument. I’d even go as far as to say before Jordan won a chip, people were considering him one of the best players ever. So don’t compare Lebron to Jordan, saying “OMG LEBRON IS ALREADY 42 JORDAN NEVER GOT THAT RESPECT!”
Jordan got FAR, FAR, FAR more respect than Lebron this far in their careers. I’m not saying it was undeserved respect, but I’m saying stop crying wolf, you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Also wonder what happens to Kobe if he plays at the same time as Jordan. In that scenario I see him being compared to Drexler more than MJ. Point is, era is critical. Play in an era with a dominant player playing your position and you get ranked lower than if you are the same player but happen to be the alpha of your era.
to have Nash in the top 50, when I
can name a few guards better with more consistent careers.
KJ happen to be one of them, even though
yes I do agree KJ is not a Top 50 player,
but I think he’s better than Nash,
I mean KJ at least put in a good 10 years
of the same type of productivity that
Nash got in his 2 MVP years.
But yes I agree it’s a few players more deserving than KJ for that spot
(Joe Dumars, Robert Parish, James Worthy, Reggie Miller, Sam Jones..) But the main glaring error is no Tiny Archibald, especially since this list
seem to honor record setters and trend
setting accomplishments, what Tiny did
in his day was basically the template
for every ’scoring’ pg that came after him.
Miller is top 50 hands down. This shouldn’t even be a discussion. Sadly, it is here…
TADOne Posted: Jun.19 at 2:14 pm
I’m not reading all 290 comments. I just wanted to say I thoroughly enjoyed this list and each write up that was done.
Comments