June 19, 2009 12:01 am  |  597 Comments

The New Top 50

A lot has changed since SLAM first did this in ‘97.

Ranking the Top 50 NBA players of all-time is no easy task. Making a list like this is not an exact science and, as you could guess, people are already squabbling—on our website, on other websites and in barbershops across the country—over the list we published in our latest issue. But is it really fair to have the debate before the complete list and reasoning is available for all to see? We don’t think so, and that’s why we decided to post our Top 50 in its entirety online. If you’re a real hoops head, a fan of SLAM or just a collector of basketball history, you should still go cop the issue; the images and the layout of the list in SLAM #130 are dope (not to mention the other usual goodness inside).

In any event, using the overriding standard that we only grade the players on their careers up until now (in other words: imagine if every current player retired tomorrow—which in the case of this list was about May 15—where would they stand?), eight full- and part-time members of the staff were given several days to study their history and prepare their own views. Then when gathered in our company’s conference room and hammered it out. We referenced the lists we did in ‘97 (SLAM #19) and ‘03 (SLAM Presents the 75 Greatest Players of All Time) a bit, but we mostly started from scratch, taking into account changes to current player’s legacies over the past six years as well as new appreciations for players of the past.

There were—and still are—a few disagreements about where guys ended up, but for the most part this list represents the consensus of the SLAM editorial staff. Will it represent yours as well? We know you won’t be shy about letting us know either way.

Michael Jordan 1. Michael Jordan
In case you were wondering, this was the least debated slot on the entire list. We’re not saying Michael Jordan can never be toppled, but for the time being, based on every consideration we could give, Mike is the one. Pure stats and their place in history? Try 30.1 ppg for his career (first all time). Or 2,514 steals (second all time). Honors? Rookie of the Year, 14 All-Star Games (MVP three times), 10 First Team All-NBA teams (nine First Team All-Defense), five MVP awards (plus six Finals MVPs). Dominant at both ends of the floor? Um, did you read the stats and honors above?! Championships? Six. Went head-to-head with other greats? Shoot, MJ ended one era (Magic-Bird-Isiah) before its time, and basically single-handedly kept a Hall of Fame lineup’s worth of stars (Charles Barkley, Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, Reggie Miller, John Stockton) from ever winning a ring.    Entertaining? The most. Impact on the game? Ditto. Really, Michael Jordan is the perfect basketball player, and the only way he wasn’t finishing No. 1 was if we’d devised a new label for whoever we deemed “the best.”—Ben Osborne

2. Wilt Chamberlain
There was no farewell tour. In fact, he may not have realized he had played his last NBA game until long afterward. But for Wilt Chamberlain, the ’72-73 season was the end. It didn’t seem that way. Sure, the 36-year-old Chamberlain averaged a career-low 13.2 points per game. But he shot over 70 percent from the floor—a record that still stands—and he led the League in rebounding for the 11th time. Wilt entered the League as the Basketball Colossus and stomped the record books flat. In his very first game, he posted 43 points and 28 rebounds. He went on to win both the Rookie of the Year and the MVP. In ’61-62, he scored 100 points in a game, averaged 50.4 points and 25.7 rebounds, and played all but eight minutes of the season. He only won two NBA titles, spurned again and again by Bill Russell’s Celtics. But his personal numbers stood up. They always did. Chamberlain’s last-ever NBA game came against the Knicks, in Game 5 of the 1973 NBA Finals. He scored 23 points and pulled down 21 boards. His team lost.—Russ Bengtson

3. Bill Russell
I can’t prove that Bill Russell is into arithmetic, but I have a hunch he must love numbers. Russell’s gotta appreciate the number 1—that’s where he falls on the all-time list of chips won (11). He likes 2 also, collecting the second-most rebounds of all time (21,620). If he wasn’t into the digit 3, he’d better like it now, because that’s where we have him on this list. Four is special to Russ, too, it being the number of times he led the L in rpg (22.5 for his career). Five is near and dear—it’s the number of times he hauled in the MVP hardware, though he easily could have had a few more. And 6, well, 6 is the number that the Celtics retired along with him, after soaking it with sweat, tears and champagne over a 13-season career, while making the Celts into the storied franchise that they are. By being the greatest winner of all time, Bill Russell made the Celtics into a franchise of winners—long after his playing days ended. If you don’t believe me, just ask Kevin Garnett.—Tzvi Twersky

4. Shaquille O’Neal
A legend in his own time. A juggernaut. A true difference-maker if ever there was one. Made everybody he played with better. Shaquille O’Neal is a star amongst stars and has been one of the focal points of the League for his entire 17-year career. His stats are monstrous. For reference sake, here are a couple: Playoff averages of 25 and 12, 15 All-Star Game appearances, tied with Chamberlain for the most times leading the League in field goal percentage (9), won two scoring titles, ’93 Rookie of the Year, 2000 MVP, three Finals MVPs and four rings. Could have had more if not for the Kobe battles, but still, four rings is nothing to laugh at. At his peak he was a physical marvel, 7-1 and 330-plus yet agile and quick. An underrated shot-blocker. Arguably the best post scorer ever. Even now, he still routinely pushes around other big men with a physicality rivaled by only a few players in the history of the game. He made you laugh. Made Kings fans cry. He calls himself the LCL (Last Center Left). I believe him.—Khalid Salaam

5. Oscar Robertson
Big O was the only player ever to average a triple double for a season: 30.8 ppg, 12.5 rpg and 11.4 apg in ’61-62, his second year in the League. Read it and weep. He averaged 25.7 for his 14-year career, once led his team in boards from the backcourt and dished out the fourth-most assists ever, playing in an era when they were less often credited than today. And he had the undying respect of his peers. “Oscar would beat you anytime he had the ball in his hands at the end of a game,” says Elvin Hayes. “He was a complete player.”—Alan Paul

6. Magic Johnson
He wasn’t a very good shooter, nor was he particularly athletic by NBA standards. And if you’re only old enough to know him as the husky guy on TV who hawks rebate anticipation loans for predatory lending firms, you’ll be excused for not understanding what made him so wonderful to watch in his prime: No player in the history of the game better combined court vision, creativity, competitiveness and sheer joy. This dude now, I don’t even know who he is. Twenty-five years ago, he was everything basketball is supposed to be.—Ryan Jones

7. Kareem Abdul-JabbarKareem Abdul-Jabbar
Sometimes the numbers tell the story. Just consider the 38,387 points Kareem Abdul-Jabbar scored in 1,560 games over 20 seasons, the most ever in the NBA, by a long shot. Some more numbers to ponder: 11.2 rpg, 3.6 apg, 2 bpg and 6 rings. But Cap also transcended the stats, as one of the most intelligent, enigmatic athletes ever and the creator of the sky hook, which Bill Russell called “one of the greatest innovations in the history of sports.“ Its brilliance, Russell added, was that “it was completely unique to Kareem’s physical abilities, proportions and coordination.” All of that made the shot virtually indefensible.—AP

8. Tim Duncan
Tim Duncan is the best power forward to ever play basketball. Over 12 seasons, he’s accumulated one Rookie of the Year award, two MVPs, three Finals MVPs, four championships, nine First Team All-NBA appearances and 11 All-Star Game invites. And all for the same franchise. His career numbers are dizzying, but Duncan has never been about the stats. With his quick wit, quiet grace, no-nonsense approach to the game and always, always perfect positioning, Tim Duncan playing basketball is poetry personified. At 33 years old, his career is probably winding down. Enjoy him—and appreciate him—while you still can.—Lang Whitaker

9. Larry Bird
Larry Bird collected every accolade the NBA offered. At 6-9, 220, and long-armed, Bird had the body for ball and he was blessed with a natural command for it, if not abundant athleticism. Physical limits didn’t stop “Larry Legend.” You don’t average 24.3 ppg and 10 rpg without athleticism, but Larry did. You don’t average 6.3 apg and 1.7 spg as a forward, but Larry did. You don’t win three rings and last 13 seasons in the L with a bad back, but somehow Larry did. More than anything else he did, he always found ways to overcome, to compete, to win and to repeat.—Matt Caputo

10.  Jerry West
Jerry West honed his skills in solitude, emerging from Cabin Creek, WV, to lead West Virginia University to the NCAA title game in 1960. West was rawboned, long armed and springy. His jump shot, especially off the dribble, was warm pie. West’s reticent aloneness both fueled and haunted him. His Lakers lost in the Finals his first six seasons, and each heartbreak added kindling to his astonishing drive to win. After more than a decade in the League, West’s ’71-72 Lakers won 33 consecutive games—still the record—and the NBA Championship. West chipped in 25.8 points and 9.7 assists on perhaps the greatest team ever. Modest yet self-assured, West was also the best clutch shooter the game has seen. He averaged a remarkable 27 ppg over 14 years, but upped that to 29 in 153 Playoff games—all before the three-point line. West was named an All-Star every year, First Team All-NBA 10 times. Here are two measures of the respect given Jerry West: He is the only Finals MVP not on the championship team. His image is the NBA’s logo.—Rus Bradburd

11.  Elgin Baylor
Do you believe in basketball evolution? You should, you know. Because the NBA wasn’t always like this. And I’m not just talking about recent developments like three-pointers and Thundersticks. The fundamentals of the game have changed. They’re still changing. They’ve always been changing. But if you know anything at all about evolution, you know it isn’t just about small steps. Because that’s not how you get from Ralph Kaplowitz set shots to LeBron James dunks in a mere 60 years. Somewhere along the line, someone has to leap. And Elgin Baylor took the biggest leap of them all. Understand this, if you understand nothing else: Without Elgin Baylor, there is no Michael Jordan, no Kobe Bryant, no LeBron James. Elgin took a ground-bound game skyward, transformed the entire sport. True, he never won an NBA championship, despite playing in eight NBA Finals. But his 61-point outburst in 1962 remains an NBA Finals record. His 19.8 rpg average in ’61 is unsurpassed by any other non-center. Everyone since has just built on the foundation he laid.—R. Bengtson

12.  Kobe Bryant
Perfectionism is the persistence of will in obtaining the optimal quality of spiritual, mental, physical and material being. Also referred to as Kobeism. When discussing KB24, there are a few things you have to take into account. One, he was constructed in a lab by commissioner David Stern and company. Sixty percent MJ, 20 percent Tiger Woods and 20 percent Jellybean Bryant (for physical attributes). Two, he’s only 30 years old and has 12 healthy seasons under his belt with three rings, 11 All-Star Game appearances and two scoring titles. Last but not least, how many players can give you 25-30 points when their defender is doing a great job stopping them? Kobe is the product of Michael Jordan as MJ was the product of Dr. J. Some may argue that there’s a different best active player, but truth is Kobe Bryant has the only set of keys to the best basketball player car and it’s going to be a few more years until he lets anyone else drive. For now he’s welcoming all students to ride alongside in the passenger seat. Put your seatbelt on and enjoy the ride.—Konate Primus

13.  Hakeem Olajuwon
Hakeem OlajuwonHakeem the Dream, first thrust onto the basketball consciousness as a star for the great University of Houston teams of the early ’80s, went on to an NBA career that featured a dozen All-Star selections, the all-time record for blocked shots, two Finals MVPs, two Defensive Player of the Year Awards, the most steals in Rockets history and the ’94 League MVP Award under his belt. A rare talent who—due in part to his youth training as a soccer player in his native Nigeria—possessed superb footwork. One of the very few dominant players on both offense and defense, he scored nearly 27,000 points in his career and grabbed nearly 14,000 rebounds. Offensively, all the pump fakes and change of directions were designed to get his opponent off balance (seriously, the Dream Shake could have a write-up all its own) and out of position. Standing 7-0 with an athletic 255-pound body, he used both finesse and muscle, and combined quick hands, upper body strength and nimbleness to shut down opponents.—KS

14.  Bob Pettit
At 6-9 and only 215 pounds, Bob Pettit was under-undersized. But after being cut from his high school team as a freshman and as a sophomore, Pettit went on to star at his hometown Louisiana State and then play 11 seasons in the NBA and total over 20,000 points and 12,000 rebounds. Pettit played his entire career for the Hawks, though at the time the team was based in Milwaukee, then St. Louis. As a rookie, BP averaged 20.4 ppg with 13.8 boards and won the Rookie of the Year award. His coach, Red Holzman, noted, “We didn’t ever hope that anybody could be that good.” His second year, Pettit averaged 25.7 and 16.2. In 1958, Pettit lead the Hawks to the NBA Finals against Bill Russell and the Celtics. The Hawks won the chip—the franchise hasn’t won another since—with Pettit going for 50 points in the decisive Game 6. As Bill Russell himself said, “Bob made ‘second effort’ a part of the sport’s vocabulary.”—LW

15.  Julius Erving
If it wasn’t for Dr. J, there is no SLAM. I have 180 words with which to justify his placement on this list, but I could have ended after those first 10 and been done with it. Because without the Doctor, I’m not writing this at all. Julius Erving didn’t invent the dunk, it just seems that way. Wilt Chamberlain, then a student at the University of Kansas, was dunking on a 12-foot basket as early as the mid ’50s. Doc wasn’t even the first guy to dunk from the free-throw line—Jim Pollard had done it as early as the late ’40s. In fact, the NCAA had banned dunking by the time Erving started at UMass in 1968. What Erving did was turn the dunk into an offensive weapon, a tool with which to demoralize and destroy. Ask Bill Walton. Ask Michael Cooper. Yes, he won four MVPs (three in the ABA). Yes, he won three championships (two in the ABA). Yes, he was the main reason behind the ABA/NBA merger. But mostly, without him, there is no us.—R. Bengtson

16.  Moses Malone
I’m old enough to have seen Moses Malone play basketball, but I mostly remembered the older, balding, bespectled, paunchy Moses who played out his career in a series of stints in peculiar locales (including Milwaukee and San Antonio). The Moses I don’t remember seeing is the man who parted the waters for players to go pro straight out of high school, the 6-10 center who averaged 24.8 points per game and 17.7 rebounds per game as a 23-year-old. Counting the two seasons he played in the ABA right after high school, Moses played 21 years of pro ball and retired with averages of 20.3 and 12.3. He won an NBA title and a Finals MVP, was a three-time regular season MVP, was an 11-time All-Star, led the NBA in rebounds per game six different times, and even led the NBA in minutes per game twice. Why, you may ask, is Moses ranked below Dr. J, when Moses’s stats and legacy are obviously superior? Well, Dr. J had a cool afro and could dunk. Other than that, I’m not sure why. Let my people go.—LW

17. John HavlicekJohn Havlicek
Tireless, gutsy, smart, scrappy and winner are all adjectives people used to describe Hondo’s game. The 6-5 guard/forward was certainly tireless, averaging more than 35 mpg nine different times. Gutsy also works, too, as Havlicek played through injuries, playing less than 75 games only once in his 16-year career. In that career, he managed to average over 20 ppg, 6 rpg and 4 apg, showing he was smart with the rock. It’s not just the stats, though; it was the way he accumulated them. Whether starting or coming off the pine, whether picking-and-popping or driving to the hoop, whether rebounding or passing, Havlicek did it all to the fullest. And that’s why he was the winner he was, pocketing eight championships. If you add it all together, one word can be used to describe him: complete.—TT

18. Karl Malone
Behind Karl Malone’s ringless fingers are two fists full of honors and records, of which we can only begin to highlight here. Malone was an All-Star every season from 1988 to 2002. He finished among the top eight in MVP voting for 14 straight seasons, and he won the award twice. He was First Team All-NBA for 11 straight years. He finished in the top 10 in total rebounds and top 5 in scoring for 13 consecutive seasons. Malone never missed more than two games in a season with the Jazz and played in the Playoffs every year of his career. He’s second all-time in career points and first in field goals made. Karl Malone was the prototype of being consistently great. And it doesn’t take a title to prove it.—Ryne Nelson

19. Isiah Thomas
Some of you under the age of 30 might look at Isiah Thomas’s ranking and shrug your shoulders, only knowing him from his scandal-ridden tenure with the Knicks. But settle down and learn something: Not only does he belong here, but there’s no debate about it. Clutch, quick and tough-minded, Zeke was a hard match-up for backcourt and frontcourt players alike. He routinely broke down his initial defenders and drove to the rack with determination. Additionally, he was an asshole (I mean that in a good way) to match, with a mean streak that only intensified his competitiveness. Thomas was the brains behind those fabled Detroit Pistons Bad Boys teams in the late ’80s and early ’90s. He scored over 18,000 points, dished out over 9,000 assists, was selected for a dozen All-Star games and was named the 1990 Finals MVP.—KS

20. Charles Barkley
Before the fat jokes every Thursday night and before senior citizen challenges at All-Star Weekend, there was a man who stood 6-4, who pumped fear into opponents and laid down the law in the paint. Often we give credit to those oversized with exceptional skill, and just as often we overlook the undersized players who cast just as large of a shadow. But how can anyone overlook someone who gives you 22 ppg with 12 rpg over the course of 16 years in the League? Yeah, Sir Charles didn’t get the one nice piece of jewelry he was aiming for, but he has his spot in the HOF, plus an MVP, a gold medal and countless other achievements. Plain and simple, Barkley was one of the toughest forwards to play this game. And some might even say he’s a great role model for future Hall of Famers.—KP

21. Rick Barry
Rick Barry’s prime was divided between the NBA, the ABA and various courtrooms, as the leagues fought over him. This reflected the tumult of the times but also overshadowed the fact that he was one of the game’s all-time greatest offensive players, scoring over 25,000 points in 14 seasons. “Rick had a tremendous outside shot,” recalls Chet Walker. “If we had had three-pointers during our era, this guy would have been truly unstoppable.” Barry led the NBA in scoring his second season with 35.6 ppg, but the League sued him when he tried to jump to the ABA. He was forced to sit out a year before his 34 ppg led the rival league in ’69. He returned to the NBA after four years. “Rick was as good at working the pick and roll as any forward ever,” recalls Slick Watts, who teamed with Barry on the Rockets, “He could shoot or pass great coming off a screen from a big guy, and he could also put the ball down once or twice, then score on anyone.”—AP

22. John Stockton
First all-time in assists (5,000 more than second place). First all-time in steals (700 more than second place). John Stockton didn’t just exceed what anyone thought a 6-1, 175-pound guard out of Gonzaga could do, he absolutely demolished expectations. Working brilliantly alongside Karl Malone and Jerry Sloan for the only team he’d ever suit up for (a record 19 seasons with one franchise), Stock ran the game at both ends of the floor with supernatural hands and unprecedented guile. The biggest negative to Stock’s career is his lack of a ring, but you can blame MJ for that. It should go without saying, given the outrageous numbers Stock put up, but dude hardly ever missed a game; in 17 of his seasons he didn’t miss a single outing, including closing his career with five straight seasons starting every possible game. And the 10-time All-Star wasn’t out there for charity—in ’02-03, his last campaign, Stock quietly led the NBA in assists per 48 minutes. He’s headed into the Hall this fall…though most people won’t notice cause you know who’s going in, too.—BO

Elvin Hayes23. Elvin Hayes
The Big E infuriated coaches and drove teammates crazy, but that marvelous turnaround jumper of his helped him become the sixth-leading scorer in NBA history. The top overall pick of the San Diego Rockets in ’68 after playing in one of the most famous college games in history (a 71-69 win for his Houtson Cougars over UCLA), Hayes led the NBA in scoring as a rookie and soon became one of the most productive and durable big men in history. In 1972, the Rockets traded Hayes to the Bullets, where he joined Wes Unseld on one of basketball’s most formidable front lines. Hayes helped the Bullets to the ’75 Finals, but a surprising four-game loss to Golden State earned the Big E criticism from those who considered him a selfish player. Three years later, he lifted Washington to the title, earning vindication against his detractors. Hayes finished his 16-year career in Houston and is remembered as a pioneering power forward and force on offense and the backboards.—Michael Bradley

24. Bob Cousy
When you think of razzle-dazzle and creative handles, you probably think of streetball. But long before the AND 1 Mixtape Tour, Boston Celtics point guard Bob Cousy was known as the “Houdini of the Hardwood.” Cousy helped contribute six titles to the greatest dynasty in any sport of all time. And even though his numbers won’t blow you away (18.4 ppg, 7.5 apg, 5.2 rpg), his crossover would crack any present day below-average NBA defender’s ankles. The New York native pioneered leading the break with behind-the-back dribbles and no-look passes that seemed headed nowhere until you saw a teammate swoop in and finish off the dime. He saw what other people didn’t see, and he knew what to do when he saw the opening. Cousy’s innovation shaped ballhandling on all levels of the game forever.—MC

25. David Robinson
Basketball, like life, is funny. In both cases, one or two moments can come to define your existence. Take David Robinson, a guy who averaged 24 ppg, 12 rpg and 4 bpg as a rookie, and went for 30 and 11 a few years later. Ten-time All-Star. Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, League MVP. Dream Teamer. And yet when I think of David Robinson, what do I think of? The guy Dream embarrassed in the Playoffs. The guy whose greatest contribution to his franchise was missing most of the ’96-97 season. But this is my problem, not his. For the first half of his career, David Robinson was all-world. For the second half, he was “only” a terrific, selfless role player with two rings to show for it. Nothing funny about that.—RJ

26. Kevin McHale
Kevin McHale looked like he was built in some mad scientist’s lab, perfectly constructed for low-post dominance. The man was all arms and legs, 6-10, 225, with limbs that seemed to stretch halfway across the court. He used those long arms to become one of the great low-post defenders in the game as well as an offensive force; he could release a shot over anyone, no matter how tall, athletic or determined. Consistently praised for being tough to guard by Charles Barkley, McHale teamed with Robert Parish and Larry Bird to form one of the game’s all-time great front lines for a dozen years, leading the Celtics to three titles. He often came off the bench as a super sixth man, abusing tired starters or overmatched subs, but he was rarely not on the floor at the end of tight games, and he won many with clutch shots, blocks or free throws.—AP

27. Scottie Pippen
Bring up Scottie Pippen and people like to talk about his negatives—once refusing to come in for the conclusion of a Playoff game, not winning a ring without Jordan, etc. But by doing that they miss the obvious. Dude was a serious player and basically perfected the point-forward position, especially during the second three-peat when he took over much of the ballhandling responsibilities for the Bulls. Additionally he was a lockdown wing defender, a key element in the overlooked fact that those championship Chicago teams of the ’90s were the best defensive teams that many of us have ever seen. At 6-7 and 228, Pip had the requisite strength and the speed to guard several positions on the floor. He did all this while being the team’s second option, scoring nearly 19,000 points over his career, making his complementary contributions to Jordan not just happenstance but crucial to the Bulls success.—KS

28. Jason Kidd
At 6-4 and 210 pounds, Jason Kidd was faster, stronger and bigger than most of the guys he went up against. But instead of running his opponents over, Kidd used a Mensa-level hoops IQ to outfox most of them, using pin-point passing to rack up over 10,000 assists in his first 15 seasons. His 103 triple-doubles are third all-time in NBA history, and they attest to Kidd’s singular ability to play a complete game in the modern era. While his defense these days is often mostly cursory, he was named First Team All-Defense four different times and is the NBA’s active steals leader. Kidd reinvigorated the Nets in the early Y2K, carrying them to the Finals twice, and then reinvigorated his own game with a trade to Dallas in 2008.—LW

29. George Mikan
There was no father to his style. That George Mikan was the NBA’s first great big man is almost beside the point; he was professional basketball’s first big man, period. A gangly 6-10, Mikan stepped into a game played by average-sized men taking set shots and changed it forever. He was both a freak and a superstar at a time when the game had neither and needed both. Understand this: They changed rules for this man. He dominated the lane so thoroughly that they widened it, and he swatted so many shots from above the rim that they disallowed the practice. Comparing him to the greats who came after, players with more size and talent, is a waste of time, and really beside the point. George Mikan is peerless because he literally had no peer.—RJ

30. Kevin Garnett
Career stat lines like 20 ppg, 11 rpg, a four-time rebounds per game leader, seven-time All-Defense First Team and one MVP pretty much sums up Mr. Garnett. Allow me to elaborate: Kevin is the most giving selfish player ever. Every dunk or fadeaway is done with the intent to make you feel bad about yourself. Every rebound he snatches is another way of telling you he’s better than you. His intense eyes and war cries are his way of letting out the pain for you. KG came into the League in 1995 as a hyped-up skinny high school kid from Illinois via South Carolina who played with passion and intensity. In 2009, 14 years later, you can call KG a man who lived up to the hype and plays with intensity and passion every game.—KP

31. Willis ReedWillis Reed
When Willis Reed emerged from the tunnel in Madison Square Garden to inspire his teammates to beat the Lakers in Game 7 of the 1970 NBA Finals, he created a moment that would last forever in League folklore. That one moment shouldn’t overshadow the many other accomplishments in his successful, if brief, NBA career. In his 10 years with the Knicks, he was Rookie of the Year, a seven-time All-Star, two-time NBA Champ, two-time Finals MVP and also the MVP of the 1970 All-Star Game. Considered the greatest Knick ever by many New York fans, Reed was the captain of the franchise’s only two NBA championship teams. The injuries that created that defining moment also ended his career, and Reed retired after the ’73-74 season. He posted averages of 18.7 points and 12.9 rebounds over 650 games.—MC

32. Wes Unseld
Wes Unseld was an absolutely ferocious rebounder. Using his 6-7, 245-pound body to hold off any and all comers, he averaged 14 rpg for his career, along with 10.8 ppg and 3.9 apg. He was Finals MVP when the Bullets won the ’78 title. “Wes had some big scoring games, but his focus was on being a tough guy and leader and to get extra shots for his team,” recalls Dave Cowens, a regular opponent and fellow HOF member. “He could also throw the outlet pass better than anyone, whipping a two-handed pass all the way downcourt while still in the air.”—AP

33. Nate Thurmond
At a time when great centers roamed the NBA, Thurmond was a major interior force, even if he didn’t receive great attention. A product of Bowling Green University, Thurmond made an immediate impact with the San Francisco Warriors, who drafted him in 1963. During his 11 seasons there, he led the club to a pair of Finals appearances and played in six All-Star games. There was nothing flashy about Thurmond, who excelled at the defensive end and was a ferocious rebounder. Thurmond concluded his 14-year career with averages of 15.0 ppg and 15.0 rpg, not to mention the considerable respect of those who competed against him.—MB

34. Dolph Schayes
A 6-8, 220-pound forward, Schayes was named to a dozen consecutive All-Star games from 1951-62, leading the Syracuse Nationals to three Finals and the ’55 title. He had deep range on his set shot and unusual agility for a big man of his era. He retired in ’64 as the NBA’s all-time leading scorer (19,247 points). “Dolph was completely tenacious and he worked as hard as anyone ever could have,” recalls Bill Russell. Schayes’ opponents were forced to work equally hard or risk being embarrassed because he never quit moving, exhausting defenders with a style he once summed up simply: “Basketball is a game of movement, so move!”—AP

35. Walt Frazier
Those who follow the Knicks now know Frazier as the colorful wordsmith who covers them on the MSG Network. But back in the ’70s, Frazier was one of the best point guards in the League and skillfully weaved his way into seven All-Star appearances, four All-NBA First Team selections, seven All-Defense selections and two Knick championships. An accomplished defender who was known for his quick hands and unflappable personality, Clyde ended his decade-long Knicks career as the franchise’s career leader in assists and points. Selected to the NBA’s 50 Greatest Team, he finished with over 15,000 points and 5,000 assists.—KS

36. Patrick Ewing
Patrick Ewing was called a warrior so much it’s a wonder his No. 33 isn’t hanging in The Arena in Oakland. It does, however, hang in MSG, despite a tumultuous last few years in blue and orange and his ultimate failure to bring a title to New York. But, in his prime, the irascible (and often sweat-soaked) Ewing was perhaps the best jump-shooting center in NBA history, a shot-altering force in the middle, and the last line of a ferocious blue-collar defense. A fierce and proud competitor to the end, Ewing was the League’s first true warrior.—R. Bengtson

37. Jerry Lucas
Jerry Lucas was one of only two players selected out of high school in the NBA’s old territorial draft, picked by the Cincinnati Royals in 1959. When he finally joined the team (and Oscar Robertson) in ’64, the 6-8, 230-pound PF averaged 17.7 ppg and 17.4 rpg and was named ROY. The next season he went for 21.4 ppg and 20 rpg to become just the third “20-20” player in League history. He is also one of only four guys to get 40 rebounds in a game. Lucas finished his 11-year career in New York, and when the Knicks won the ’73 title, it gave Lucas championships in high school, college, the Olympics and the NBA. “Jerry combined skill, hard work, determination, knowledge of the game and raw intelligence as well as anyone,” says Clyde Frazier.—AP

38. Gary Payton
Some guys are handed nicknames, but the only way you get a name like The Glove is by earning it. He played with a feral, confrontational quality unusual for point guards. He intimidated 95 percent of the guards in the League with that style and dominated best point guard in the League discussions for the entire ’90s. His nine All-Star Game selections are bolstered by nine All-Defense First Team selections and highlighted by his Defensive Player of the Year Award in ’96 (the only PG to ever win that honor), the season he led the Seattle SuperSonics to the NBA Finals. After stints with the Celtics and Lakers, he reemerged with the Heat and hit the key shot in Game 3 of the ’06 Finals, capping a Hall of Fame career with a deserved Championship ring.—KS

Allen Iverson39. Allen Iverson
“We talking about practice?” One of the most memorable quotes in basketball history, and oddly enough it came from a man who led the League in scoring four times, averaged 27 ppg for his career and made 10 All-Star games all while being constantly injured and extremely undersized. Generously listed at 6-0, Allen Iverson banged with the best and played through every injury short of a broken leg. But still, “We are talking about practice, not a game.” Not the game? He was League MVP, All-Star MVP twice and ROY. “We are talking about practice.” There is no question about his dedication, heart, love, nor individual talent. But while you may question how AI will solidify his place among the greats, only he knows. Because Allen Iverson is still The Answer.—KP

40. Billy Cunningham
They didn’t call him the Kangaroo Kid for nothing. A 6-6, 220-pound small forward, Billy Cunningham used his outstanding hops to dominate from the wing. From 1968-72, he grabbed between 11.7 and 13.6 rpg, along with 24.3 ppg and 4.6 apg. That was after he served as an electrifying sixth man on the 68-13 1967 Sixers and before he went to the ABA and was MVP of the League. A blown knee prematurely ended his career in ’75, but Cunningham earned another ring as coach of the ’83 Sixers. “I’d like to take credit for the jumping but it was a God-given talent,” says Cunningham, a Brooklyn native who spent countless hours on the playground. “It was easy to develop a game because we just played so much against so many great players.”—AP

41. Clyde Drexler
Clyde Drexler wasn’t your typical superstar. A sublimely brilliant all-around guard, the high-flying Drexler simply kept his head down—on and off the court—and never stopped moving. Drafted out of Houston in ‘83, he led the Blazers to two Finals appearances, in ‘90 and ‘92, finally winning a championship with Houston in ’95. But he wasn’t just hanging on to get a ring—that year he led the Rockets in points, assists and steals. Yet, polite to the end, he chose to walk away. “I think it’s better to go before you’re asked,” Drexler once told me. “I worked too hard to develop those skills to see them atrophy.”—RB

42. LeBron James
There is no number that better describes the difficulty of doing an all-time player list than this one. Forty-two for LeBron James? I’m writing this in mid-May. Will he vault to 37 if the Cavs win the title this year? Who knows? And who cares? He’s here, in the conversation, in his sixth season and still shy of his 25th birthday. Ignore the marketing and the talc showers. The stats, not to mention the opinions of his rivals and peers, do not lie; being ranked No. 42 right now is irrelevant. King James’ destiny is single-digit.—RJ

43. Dominique Wilkins
Dominique Wilkins was called the Human Highlight Film, but it wasn’t only because of his dunking. Nique had a deadly mid-range game, an array of off-the-glass jumpers, and he developed into a reliable three-point shooter. Still, it was the dunks that made Nique greater than so many of his peers. In fact, if he’d played during the YouTube era, he’d probably be five or six slots higher on our list. Playing the majority of his career in the same conference as Larry Bird and Michael Jordan kept Nique from ever making it to the NBA Finals. But for fans of basketball played above the rim, nobody did it better than Dominique Wilkins. Ever.—LW

44. Dave Cowens
While Cowens is the last of the eight Celtics in our 50, he is also the most unique of them. Cowens accumulated a solid resume: 17.6 ppg, 13.6 rpg, two NBA Titles and an MVP award. But this doesn’t tell the whole story of the 6-9 center’s 11-year run. Always hyperactive and tenacious on the court, Cowens was just as eccentric off of it—retiring once mid-season, driving a taxi cab during another. The fact that he was able to do so much on the court while doing so much off it is a testament to his greatness.—TT

45. George GervinDNA056027091.jpg
The “Iceman” ruled over his 13 pro seasons with some of the coldest scoring skills in the history of the game. A 12-time NBA or ABA All-Star, Gervin was regularly among the top NBA scorers, including four finishes as the League’s leader. Famous for his Afro, skin-and-bones body type and for pioneering the finger roll, Gervin’s 26,595 career points, two 30-plus ppg seasons and All-Star Game MVP trophy keep his legacy frozen in time. As if that wasn’t enough, he’s also the only guy to be teammates of both Julius Erving and Michael Jordan. Although he never won a title or League MVP, Gervin was one of the most dangerous offensive threats of any era.—MC

46. Bob McAdoo
If it weren’t for McAdoo’s second act as a standout reserve on four Laker Finals teams, few would remember the sweet-shooting forward for anything other than controversy. A star at UNC, he joined the Buffalo Braves in 1972 and became an immediate sensation, winning three scoring titles. But McAdoo clashed with ownership midway through the ’75-76 season and began a five-team odyssey that eventually brought him to the Lakers. Though a former MVP, McAdoo thrived in a reserve role and played big parts on L.A.’s ’82 and ’85 title teams. He finished his career as a star in the Italian League.—MB

47. Earl Monroe
At 6-3, Earl Monroe couldn’t get over you. At 190 pounds, he couldn’t go through you. So he had to figure out how to go around you. And go around you Monroe did, with a dizzying arsenal of spins and dribbles that left opponents clutching at air. A four-time All-Star with the Knicks and Bullets, Earl the Pearl’s blacktop-bred game occasionally even left him wondering. “The thing is, I don’t know what I’m going to do with the ball,” Monroe once said. “And if I don’t know, I’m quite sure the guy guarding me doesn’t know either.”—R. Bengtson

48. Dennis Rodman
How did Dennis Rodman become the best rebounder ever? Divine intervention. Over (growing nine inches between his 19th and 20th birthdays) and over (drafted a Bad Boy) and over. At 19, Dennis Rodman was a 5-9 twerp, hanging out in malls, stealing cheap watches. By 30, he was gathering over 25 percent of the rebounds on the court. Plainly, Dennis knew before everyone else where the rebound would be. You know what was craziest about the Worm? His “court sense.” How else, in basketball’s modern age, could a 36-year-old possibly average 15 rebounds for an entire season?—RN

49. Walt Bellamy
Walt Bellamy had one of the greatest rookie seasons in NBA history, averaging 31.6 ppg and 19 rpg season for the Chicago Packers after being the top pick in the ’61 Draft. “Bells” played in 1,043 of 1,055 games during his 14-year career and retired in ’74 as the sixth-leading scorer (20,941 points, 20.1 ppg) and third all-time rebounder (14,241 rebounds, 13.1 rpg). He is in great company as one of only seven players to score 20,000 points and grab 14,000 boards, along with Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Elvin Hayes, Robert Parish, Moses Malone and Karl Malone.—AP

50. Steve Nash
At 6-2, maybe 190 pounds, Nash has scored over 13,000 points and dished over 7,500 assists in his 13 NBA seasons. But more relevantly, he won two MVP awards with a couple of eye-popping seasons in Phoenix. Were his numbers inflated from playing in Mike D’Antoni’s system? Maybe. But as Nash himself told me a few years ago, “It was from team play and it was how well our team did that made me the MVP. I owe it all to my teammates, and I realize it’s unique. It’s good for kids and good for the game that the MVP was awarded to someone who won it in a team setting.”—LW

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  • B. Long Posted: Jun.19 at 12:06 am
    Solid list. I understand that no one is gonna be satisfied with every player in every spot and I totally respect all the energy and effort that went into this. Ryan stole that Magic write up right out of my mouth. Konate did Kobe justice. My only beef is Pistol. Where is Pistol?

  • C Posted: Jun.19 at 12:21 am
    Shaq over Kareem? Are you nuts??? Kareem:
    Rookie of the Year (1970)
    Six-time NBA champion (1971, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988)
    Most Valuable Player (1971, 1972, 1974, 1976, 1977, 1980) Holds NBA career record for:
    Most points - 38,387
    Most minutes played (57,446)
    Most field goals made (15,837)
    Most field goals attempted (28,307)
    Most All-Star selections (19)
    Most All-Star games played (18)

  • Joe Posted: Jun.19 at 12:21 am
    Same, get Pistol in there. How long before Chris Paul makes the list?

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 12:24 am
    Joe: Wade makes it before Paul does.
    The Kareem part and the Shaq part are the only real crazy things on the list.

  • Prison Mike Posted: Jun.19 at 12:25 am
    I think Kareem should be above Magic. He had more championships, mvps and points. Sure Magic had a lot of assists, but how hard were some of those when you are giving it to the guy with the unstoppable sky hook? Any one can load the cannon, but that doesn’t make them more valuable than the weapon that actually does the damage.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 12:27 am
    Rick Barry should be top 15.

  • Prison Mike Posted: Jun.19 at 12:29 am
    Co-sign Jukai and C. I would rather have Kareem’s career than Shaq’s.

  • Prison Mike Posted: Jun.19 at 12:32 am
    It seems like Oscar’s ONE season where he averaged a triple-double has too much of an effect on how his entire career perceived. If he was so good, why did he only win one championship? And that was with Kareem.

  • nick Posted: Jun.19 at 12:32 am
    Dream is vastly underrated on this list. I covered this in excruciating depth in the comments for the Links, but I’ll do the cliff’s notes version here: He was a statistical freak, single handedly carried a mediocre team to a championship (which is exceedingly rare), he’s the NBA’s all time leading shot-blocker and maybe the 2nd best defensive center of all time, and, perhaps most importantly, played in the best era ever for centers, met all of his top rivals in the playoffs, and severely outplayed (and occasionally obliviated), each and every one of them.

  • ballines playa lithuanian Posted: Jun.19 at 12:40 am
    WTF are u retarded Pete maravich wtf and allen iverson shuldnt even be on the list he sucks so bad

  • nick Posted: Jun.19 at 12:42 am
    Prison Mike: they must not have basketballreference.com in jail. The big O is far more than just one great season. He averaged more than 30 ppg 6 times. He had 9 seasons averaging more than 9 APG. He averaged double digit rebounds 3 times…AS A POINT GAURD. For his career, including his time in miluakee (while he was in serious decline), he averaged nearly 26 points, 8 pulls, and 10 dimes. That’s f#*King monstrous. Oh, and the reason he only won a single title is because unless your jersey said “Boston” on it, you didn’t win titles during that era.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 12:44 am
    Prison Mike: Actually, if you add up Oscar Robertson’s first five seasons, he would have a triple double average, so he was more impressive than “one season.”
    And it’s not like his team “magically” drafted Kareem and got better. Robertson was TRADED to the team that drafted Kareem, and TOGETHER they won an NBA championship. You can easily say Kareem only won that championship because ROBERTSON got traded to that team. Ya dig?

  • nick Posted: Jun.19 at 12:47 am
    I feel like we’re on the same page Jukai.

  • Prison Mike Posted: Jun.19 at 12:47 am
    Thank you Nick. Honestly, I would have rather read what you just posted, than what made it in the magazine. I just wish everyone else would be as informative rather than just throwing out the “triple-double” season and calling it good.

  • Pardeep Posted: Jun.19 at 12:48 am
    WTF IS ALLEN IVERSON DOING AT 39??????

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 12:48 am
    And just to add, the year before Robertson retired, him and Kareem took the Bucks to a league-best 59-23 record, as well as the NBA Finals where they lost in a tough seven-game match up against the Cowen/Havlicek led Celtics. Robertson retired, and the team dipped to 38-44, despite Kareem still being on the team.
    Coincidence?

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 12:51 am
    Pardeep, I believe he’s destroying storied franchises at 39!

  • mmm Posted: Jun.19 at 12:54 am
    Impressive! Argh got to get my hands on the mag ASAP….

  • Prison Mike Posted: Jun.19 at 12:55 am
    Boston did keep a lot of players from ever being champions. That’s a great point. I guess that puts Oscar in the same boat as Wilt. Great stats, but played during the Celtic dynasty. I still don’t believe he is better than Kareem though.

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.19 at 12:57 am
    Whoops. How the heck was I “mmm”? Anyway, the very fact that Dennis Rodman is on the list VALIDATES it. Love him at 48.

  • nick Posted: Jun.19 at 12:58 am
    Very similar situation to Wilt. I might also take Kareem over him though.

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.19 at 1:01 am
    @Nick: I feel you on Hakeem. I’m not old enough to remember Wilt/Russell, but Hakeem remains the best center I’ve ever seen. Hard to put him higher up though… that’s lofty company already.

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.19 at 1:04 am
    Also good to see Patrick Chewing love! Those rough-n-tumble Knicks teams he led really were a guilty pleasure to watch. Love em or hate em, you *had* to respect them.

  • Michael NZ Posted: Jun.19 at 1:22 am
    Mostly good except AI at 39. More like 139. And Kobe now into the top 10. Shaq and Oscar a lil high - Kareem above them. Duncan over Bird is an interesting call that I’m not sure I agree with. Purposeful controversy/talking points. Nicely done SLAM.

  • nick Posted: Jun.19 at 1:25 am
    I love the fact that Patrick Chewing has become pat’s nickname post-hoc. And thank you, mike.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 1:34 am
    Shaq is not number 4, I am tired of this most domniate mess, he has one MVP for that and one of his Finals MVP’s should have went to Kobe. Shaq is not even top 5 center, he is behind, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem and Duncan. But number 4 on greatest list. Big O is not 5, he average a triple double, OK, but has one ring, that should tell you something, If he was that great why one ring. Stats mean jack to me when doing top 10, I want players with multiple chips. Kareem is 3 on my list, Kareem is getting no credit only Magic. Isn’t Jerry West the greatest loser ever-8 or 9 Finals not top 10 losing that many BIG GAMES. Baylor at 11, I am not going there. We know KObe is higher now-7 by my standards.

  • bigE Posted: Jun.19 at 1:35 am
    HOW in the world of basketball is kobe #12?!?!?!? has he not proven to the world he is legit???

  • Steve Posted: Jun.19 at 1:40 am
    Great list … it makes all those people saying Kobe is top ten by winning really think. Who do you take out to get him in there? I also take the Dream over him any day. The other thing to ponder…. if MJ is never born what happens to these rankings? Do Larry and Magic get into top 5 because they get more rings at the end? Is Isiah top ten? Does Pippen make it at all or is he higher? Do Stockton and Malone move up with at least two rings? Top Ten
    MJ
    Wilt
    Russell
    Kareem
    Magic
    Oscar
    Shaq
    Bird
    Hakeem
    Duncan Top ten without MJ gracing the earth
    Wilt
    Russell
    Kareem
    Hakeem - add a title maybe, one more MVP
    Magic
    Larry
    Thomas - add 1/2 titles, maybe an MVP or two
    Malone (Karl) - add 1/2 titles
    Shaq
    Duncan

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 1:40 am
    Lebron over Dominique is sad, He will get credit for his game and Rodman has 5 chips and is the greatest rebounder, POUND FOR POUND and STEVE NASH being on the list has JAMES NAISMITH rolling over in his grave. NASH had Dirk, Finley and others on a stacked Mavericks team did nothing, and next year they go to Finals without him also NASH only average assists and can;t guard my grandma. Sad Nash the great white hope got on this list. Slam you should have had fans vote on this list. NASH on the list is sad-SO THREE GOOD YEARS you are top 50 ever. I would take Dennis Johnson, Chauncey Billups, Chris Paul, Joe Dumars, Kevin Johnson and many other over STEVE “overrated” NASH.

  • Steve Posted: Jun.19 at 1:42 am
    Revision, Shaq and Duncan still over Karl Malone

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 1:47 am
    Steve, Kenny Smith even said Kobe should be over Hakeem, when talking on TV about their careers, also your list sucks.

  • Steve Posted: Jun.19 at 1:50 am
    I’m no Nash fan either, but you can’t take Dumars in particular, or really any of those guys, over a two time MVP when putting together a list like this. How many league MVP’s (let along two time MVP’s) aren’t here? In 100 years time who know whether people think this is even too LOW for him … though i hope not!

  • Steve Posted: Jun.19 at 1:52 am
    No way you take Kobe over Hakeem… and if you are relying on Kenny Smith to support your arguments then that is like going to war and using Dick Cheney to back you up… no cred buddy.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 1:53 am
    THE REAL TOP 10
    MJ
    Russell
    Kareem
    Magic
    Bird
    Wilt
    Kobe- had 5 to 7 years to add one more Chip
    Duncan- Malone is better to me-just no Chips
    Shaq- One MVP, career is over
    Oscar- has one Chip

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 1:56 am
    Hakeem the dream is behind Kobe on this list anyway, you not having Kobe in your top 10 shows you don’t know bball, but ever annoucer, coach, NBA player, has Kobe top 10, and I am going to keep typing this Skip the hater Bayless has Kobe at 7 and he is a hater.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 1:56 am
    Steve

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 1:57 am
    Steve,

  • Antwonomous Posted: Jun.19 at 1:58 am
    @The Seed: which of Shaq’s Finals MVPs should have gone to Kobe? I guess you guys did this list before the conclusion of the Finals, but you should have waited, Kobe is def ahead of West and Baylor now and Big O, too. People make the big deal of the whole triple double thing, and of course it’s impressive, but it’s also a product of the era he played in. Put him in the modern era and he never averages a triple double; The Sports Guy explains here: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060412 I’m sure you guys were aware of the juiced numbers of those times, but if you weren’t, read up. Shaq over Kareem is a sham, but not surprising, Cap was the most underappreciated legend ever. Oh, and how do you guys feel about Dr. J’s career? How much should we consider his ABA career when ranking him historically? He was most dominant there, but it was the lesser league, right?

  • Steve Posted: Jun.19 at 1:59 am
    yes?

  • Steve Posted: Jun.19 at 2:03 am
    Being at 12 is no disgrace… but no way Kobe is better than anyone above him. Great great player, but not top ten. Man, you Lakers fans are hopeless … You already have 4.25 (not giving you all of Wilt even though you will claim him I’m sure) of the top ten!

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 2:03 am
    sorry man website messing up

  • Steve Posted: Jun.19 at 2:06 am
    Seed, let’s look at it another way… no other player who played in MJ’s era is in the top ten in this list. magic and Larry got it done before he fired up, Shaq and Duncan kicked off when he was done. Kobe plays in the same era as MJ… he is Clyde Drexler.

  • Jacob J Posted: Jun.19 at 2:10 am
    I dont get how Joe D, Reggie Miller or Ben Wallace isnt on the list at all! Or that Karl Malone isnt higher than Duncan.Malone is cleary better than duncan its that he has no rings.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 2:11 am
    Steve, read articles and listen to radio shows, more than what you think about a player, he is top 10, no doubt, KObe is the 2nd greatest 2 guard ever, but he is 12 on this list, doesn’t make since.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 2:15 am
    Jacob, I agree, Malone is way better, than what people give him credit for, I would take Malone over Duncan anyday.
    THE REAL TOP 10,
    MJ
    Russell
    Kareem
    Magic
    Bird
    Wilt
    Kobe- has 5 to 7 years to add one more Chip
    Duncan- Malone is better to me-just no Chips
    Shaq- One MVP, career is over
    Oscar- has one Chip

  • Steve Posted: Jun.19 at 2:19 am
    Even as the second best 2 guard in hostory it makes sense that he is at 12 … MJ was a freak. Look at the rest of the list … you win titles with big men, that is why the list is top heavy with quality bigs. Only the logo splits MJ and Kobe… I don’t have a problem with that. Even if disagree with that Kobe is number ten at best.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 2:21 am
    Steve Nash over Reggie Miller is sad, What is the world coming too.

  • Steve Posted: Jun.19 at 2:22 am
    Malone better than Duncan? Guys, come on.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 2:23 am
    Steve, Jerry West is the greatest loser ever!!!

  • Steve Posted: Jun.19 at 2:28 am
    Seed, lol! Either with you on the assumed sarcasm if at you if you are actually being serious!

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 2:37 am
    Olajuwon > Kobe.

  • Rnz Posted: Jun.19 at 2:59 am
    “The thing is, I don’t know what I’m going to do with the ball,” Monroe once said. “And if I don’t know, I’m quite sure the guy guarding me doesn’t know either.” …Cooler than cool

  • The Cool Posted: Jun.19 at 3:21 am
    Everybody is listed fine except swap shaq and kareem around and delete Nash from the history books, well at least from this list. And give one of his MVPs to Kobe. Nash doesn’t deserve to be top 50, the only argument (and I accept that it is very strong) is his 2 MVPs, I’m not even gonna say they’re system/team mvps, cuz that could be argued for a lot of mvps. Its just that his 2 seasons were vastly over rated and he didn’t deserve to be MVP. Plus if you take away those 2 seasons, he hasn’t done jack, whereas you take away the 2 best seasons of almost every other player on this list and they still have a bunch of accolades left over. I’d take DWade, his championship ring, finals MVP, olympic gold and scoring title over Nash’s mvps any day….or pistol pete for the old timers

  • The Cool Posted: Jun.19 at 3:27 am
    I think Nash got the MVP over Kobe’s 35ppg 7th seed Lakers who were a bunch of scrubs, worst team in the L without Kobe, due to the leagues pretty little image that Sternbot and the voters didn’t want to tarnish, especially after Kobe’s colorado incident and his selfish image in those days. They’d prefer a prissy do-good canadian haha. I have to justify this by saying “and I’m not even a Lakers/Kobe fan” in fact I wanted the magic to win, i just appreciate Kobe’s greatness.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 3:32 am
    I don’t think Nash should be there, but well, I think Shaq at four is a lot more disgraceful than Nash at three. Nash had three to four LEGENDARILY insane top-50 worthy years… but if we don’t judge people by their careers, than Alanzo, McGrady, Hill, and Hardaway all belong on that list as well. Nash just came into his own too late.
    Dwayne Wade really deserves top-50 credit, I’m not sure why people are so willing to put Lebron on a top 50 but not Dwayne.
    The Seed, by your logic, should Robert Horry be ranked like, 2nd on your list? I dont’ get this championship nonsense. Winning a ring isn’t everything in basketball.

  • The Cool Posted: Jun.19 at 3:37 am
    Michael NZ: how could you not have AI on the list?! .. what’s he? like 3rd all time ppg (or there abouts) for a small mortal who has to battle against giants…that’s impressive.

  • The Cool Posted: Jun.19 at 3:39 am
    I completely concur Jukai, well said.

  • Washtub Posted: Jun.19 at 4:23 am
    I’m no hater and I’m no LA Fan, but at this point in time, Lebron does not belong on that list, esp. not that high. I know you hate him, but where’s Reggie?
    I know he isn’t liked here, but why Lebron and not Dirk, who has accomplished more than him?

  • Todd Spehr Posted: Jun.19 at 4:24 am
    @ Prison Mike: You say O is living off his triple-double season. Oh yeah? But he averaged a triple-double for his first five seasons COMBINED. You can’t forget that.

  • max Posted: Jun.19 at 4:26 am
    I really like the list and wouldnt change anything about it except… you might think Im crazy or something, but I wouldve tried to squeeze dirk somewhere on the list.
    He, to me, changed the NBA as being the first european to ever win an MVP is something special. He brought european based basketball players into ranks they havent been in before (maybe peja that one year). Furthermore, which 7-footer ever shot the ball as well as him…
    I think that wouldve deserved a spot in the top 50 and nash definently doesn’t have the impact on the game that dirk has

  • Guitoz Posted: Jun.19 at 4:26 am
    Great list. I think George Mikan and Scottie Pippen should be higher on the list. Bill Walton, Reggie Miller, Pete Maravich, Joe Dumars or Robert Parish could be there too. And what about a guy like Tony Parker: 3 rings, 1 Finals MVP, outplayed point guards like Kidd and Nash in all of their playoffs confrontations? I don’t think he’s a top 50, not yet, but one day he could.

  • Todd Spehr Posted: Jun.19 at 4:27 am
    Not to take a darn thing away from Tim Duncan - great player, great winner, longevity, awesome peak value, you name it. But having him ahead of Bird automatically anoints him as the best forward ever. Bird contributed to reviving the game, made passing contagious (as a forward), had a ridiculous 3-straight MVPs, showed up for EVERY big game, played/dominated in an insanely competitive era for small forwards, and had the highest winning percentage (when he played) for any player in the 80s.

  • larrylegend Posted: Jun.19 at 4:28 am
    pistol, chief, dj, skywalker????

  • Big Marv Posted: Jun.19 at 4:37 am
    where’s Sheed????

  • rj Posted: Jun.19 at 4:41 am
    kobe needs to be top ten and im totally fine with AI being in there yall forget what he’s brought to this league and yea now that its been mentioned wheres pistol?

  • Justin Posted: Jun.19 at 4:53 am
    The Seed, how can you say Nash was on a stacked team in Dallas to pump up his numbers but turn around and say Dennis Johnson should be in there? I guess the Celtics weren’t very stacked huh?

  • Todd Spehr Posted: Jun.19 at 5:06 am
    @ The Seed: Just curious, which of Shaq’s Finals MVP’s should have gone to Kobe? In 2000 against the Pacers Shaq avg. 38 and 16; in 2001 against Philly he put up 33 and 15.8; in 2002 against the Nets he was at 36.3 and 12.3. And his team went 12-3. That is dominance. And for those who doubt his place as the fourth best ever, check out those digits on the biggest stage. It’s hard finding a comparable three-year run.

  • Todd Spehr Posted: Jun.19 at 5:17 am
    To those who say Nash is living off a couple of legendary years need to check that rationale. Why does that not justify Nash, but justifies Bob McAdoo’s place on the list? McAdoo never played in an All-Star Game after the age of 27, spent a decent portion of his prime putting up numbers on bad teams, and was a role player on some great Lakers teams of the early 80s. I’m not saying McAdoo doesn’t deserve his spot, but I’m pointing out that the rationale people use against Nash can also apply to McAdoo.

  • Tuomas Posted: Jun.19 at 5:49 am
    Great, now even Slam is hating on Artis Gilmore.

  • madamerica Posted: Jun.19 at 5:51 am
    There are only two NBA MVPs who aren’t on this list: Bill Walton and Dirk Nowitzki. In case anyone else was wondering.

  • Tuomas Posted: Jun.19 at 5:56 am
    Great, now even Slam is hatin’ on Artis Gilmore.

  • Son of Shawn Posted: Jun.19 at 6:06 am
    Great work and effort, only two things: Shaq over Duncan?, are you sure?, really?, and it´s a pity what happened with Connie Hawkins, if he wasn´t unfairly bannered in his prime he´d have been a top 10 in everyone´s list

  • Reflex Posted: Jun.19 at 6:14 am
    Kobe should be top 10. The Dream should be ahead of Shaq (the biggest error on that list). I also don’t feel like Steve Nash should be on it either, don’t get me wrong< i love the guy and he is a great player but if you put his best game against Chris Paul at his best their is only one winner for me. This is not to say that CP should be on the list but I’d like to think that to be a top 50 entrant you were/are an absolute beast in your position, Nash is/was a great point guard but I wouldn’t class him as a beast for the purposes of this list. Otherwise, the Hakeem Shaq discrepancy needs to be addressed.

  • Young Chris MP3 Posted: Jun.19 at 6:18 am
    Shaq > Kareem, Hakeem, and every other Center not named Bill Russell (and arguably Wilt Chamberlain).

  • Young Chris MP3 Posted: Jun.19 at 6:21 am
    Like my man Ma$e said: “If the haters wanna hate, then it’s their loss”

  • C-Mac Posted: Jun.19 at 6:22 am
    are you kidding putting AI at 39??
    a career shouldn’t be measured by rings

  • Young Chris MP3 Posted: Jun.19 at 6:24 am
    Co-sign Todd’s 5:06 am comment. Finally have some intelligence on this thread. And I love that the Shaq debate is being argued by a lot of you when everyone here knows (or should know) that the author of Shaq’s entry could seriously break any offenders down like an Allen Iverson cross-over if he wanted to. Go back into the archives if you want Khalid’s take on why he ranks Shaq second to Mike.

  • pennydunk_1 Posted: Jun.19 at 6:32 am
    I like when Rodman’ getting props

  • Todd Spehr Posted: Jun.19 at 6:46 am
    I wonder if Fisher ended up flopping in that pic of AI?

  • Foxx Posted: Jun.19 at 6:52 am
    Steve Nash has no business being in the Top 50 and how the hell do you put Jerry West over Kobe?

  • catalan Posted: Jun.19 at 7:26 am
    jason kidd 28?, he is not in a top-200…

  • Freedom Fries Posted: Jun.19 at 7:55 am
    Great list, thanks for this. Especially Rodman getting a shout out. For anyone who hasn’t read it, you should pick up Rodman’s autobiography – amazing, impressive and hilarious (as well as Chuck’ bio). Great job fellas.

  • seppo Posted: Jun.19 at 8:21 am
    why do people keep ranking ancient guys like bill russel or john havlicek like they could really ball. even at their prime they never had the skills, athleticism or moves that kobe or jordan have. mikan in his prime would get his ass whooped by robert swift. that´s just the truth. the best players of all time are: 1. jordan 2. kobe 3. lebron james 4. magic 5. shaq

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 8:39 am
    I don’t know about shaq at four. But the real question is how does wilt leap frog russell since neither has played anymore games?

  • Moose Posted: Jun.19 at 8:48 am
    Magic shouldn’t have dropped to 6. And, hate to say it, but because Kobe just won a fourth chip, does he move up?

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.19 at 9:01 am
    Incredible thing to ponder (by Steve at 1.40am): if MJ was never born, at least half a dozen guys could’ve had rings in the 90s. Clyde could’ve gotten one a lot earlier. The Jazz would’ve won two in 97-98. Reggie would be less maligned right now. Charles wouldnt’ve left Phoenix. Hakeem, the odds are, would’ve 3peated at least. Magic would’ve won another ring, too. Maybe Kwame Brown would be a 20-10 guy by now, too. Or maybe not haha.

  • Freedom Fries Posted: Jun.19 at 9:08 am
    “Kwame Brown would be a 20-10 guy by now” - you’re killing me - bwahahahah !

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 9:10 am
    Todd Spehr: I am Nash’s biggest supporter here, I think people are INSANE to say Dennis Johnson, Kevin Johnson, Maurice Cheeks, Hardaway, etc. were better than Nash, I think they’re crazy. But even I’m a bit thrown by Nash’s addition on the list. By YOUR OWN LOGIC, where is Big Bill Walton on the list? Dude was an MVP, an NBA Champion, and put up insane, sickening numbers for 3-years in the L: 19 points, 14 rebounds, 4 assists, 3 blocks and a steal a game! All well shooting well over 50% from the field! Nash and McAdoo’s temporary inclusion really should allow cats like Bernard King and Bill Walton, guys who downright dominated for a couple of years in the league, to be on the list. Once again, Nash and McAdoo are all time greats, REAL great players, people underrate them like crazy. But this is the top 50 here.
    And I’ll pretext all that by saying it’s not unthinkable to have Nash in the top 50, it really isn’t, there are just probably some better choices. Shaq at 4 is still bizarre though.
    Seppo: Back in the day, the talent wasn’t there, true, although I do think Chamberlain and Russel were athletic enough to be dominant in today’s league. Havlicek is different though, Havlicek balled throughout the 70s and was QUITE effective. The 70s was real physical ball, fast paced too, quite comparable to today’s league (I think, anyway…)
    Bryan: New crew, new opinions. It’s not like the list is constantly changing because of new evidence or anything like that.

  • monkeyball Posted: Jun.19 at 9:16 am
    Good list. I think the top 30 is very solid. I have problems with the ranking: Russell should be above Wilt.
    Kareem should be above Shaq. Magic should be above the Big O. You seem to put too much emphasis on stats. So what if Robertson averaged a triple double? So what if Wilt averaged 50ppg in a season? Those are amazing numbers, sure, but you at SLAM are sometimes blinded by impressive stats. Not only did Oscar only one one ring, the rest of his career was full of underachieving teams. Magic played in 9 NBA finals. Not so with Wilt, who played in a LOT of conference finals and NBA finals, but Russell was the greatest champion.

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 9:19 am
    Just for arguments sake, Dennis Johnson and Maurice Cheeks would have made Steve Nash look like Chris Quinn in their primes…….believe that.

  • Hisham Posted: Jun.19 at 9:21 am
    It’s too bad that I haven’t received my copy yet. Cause until I get it, I’m NOT reading this

  • Hisham Posted: Jun.19 at 9:26 am
    Although I couldn’t resist reading some of the comments. @monkeyball: although winning is a great measuring stick for greatness, and should weigh pretty heavily in ranking these players, this is a list of the BEST players, not GREATEST WINNERS. That list would feature Robert Horry in the top 5, excluding all those celtics with 7 or 8 rings

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 9:27 am
    No. No they wouldn’t have. Not even close. But thanks grandpa Eboy.

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 9:30 am
    Since you never saw a live game with either one of them in their primes, then you should back off your stance as HMIC, Juki.

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 9:31 am
    Steve Nash since he became a full time starter has averaged 16 points and 9 assists per game, combine that with his percentages and there are no questions about his standings in history. I think he gets unfairly penalized for taking his time to develop.

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 9:32 am
    Those numbers aren’t astronomical, Shia. Let’s be real.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 9:33 am
    Steve Nash on this list is sad yes he got two MVP’s one was Kobe’s and the other actually was Shaq’s for Miami turnaround that year. The NBA media was changing the way they vote for MVP’s. BEcause people forget Starbury with the Suns. Marion and Amare were already balling,and anybody remembers like me. Those Suns that year gave the Spurs all they could handle that year. Steve Nash did not make Amare or Marion, were already putting up numbers, thats how he got MVP and another one, because Amare got hurt, Sad, I lost respect for the mainly white media for giving those to Nash, because Nash got his teams no where and they had talent, barely could beat Kobe, playing with Smush, Walton, Odom and Kwame. Steve Nash top 50 makes the NBA look like scrubs, because Kevin Johnson, Dennis Johnson, Mark Jackson, Maurice Cheeks are better than him and in that NO Defense only OFfense by Dtoni, what do you expect. Now Nash is back to his Dallas ways if you buy this magazine or have it, I would tear out this page, so you will not have to tell your kids in 20 years that at one time, people thought Steve Nash was top 50 ever in this league.

  • Chris Yeh Posted: Jun.19 at 9:35 am
    A good way to check the list is to look position by position: C: Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Kareem
    PF: Duncan, Pettit, Malone, Barkley
    SF: Bird, Baylor, Dr. J, Hondo
    SG: MJ, West, Kobe, Drexler
    PG: Oscar, Magic, Isiah, Stockton, Cousy For the most part, I agree with these rankings. The two that jump out are Shaq over Kareem and Oscar over Magic. Kareem wins out over Shaq 6 to 1 in MVPs and 6 to 1 in titles. I also give him points for having a much better movie career. Oscar was great, but Magic won 3 MVPs and 5 titles in a shorter career. The ranking doesn’t make sense unless you’re penalizing Magic for his atrocious grasp of the English language or “The Magic Hour”.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 9:37 am
    Eboy: I’ve seen enough to know they aren’t better, as has just about every sports journalist in the world. Sure, I only saw them past their primes, but I’ve watched full games (Seattle playoff games for DJ), checked their stats, read up on them… I just don’t think they’re better. DJ may have been more useful to some teams because of his insane versatility, but better? Good lord, no. Especially not DJ. Not a better shooter, not a better passer, not a better leader. He had the defense thing going for him, but that was about the only impressive thing he had. He constantly choked, he was deamed uncoachable and was traded away many times, and thanks to Larry Bird, a lot of people remember him too favorably. Bottom line. Maurice Cheeks, I think you can make a better argument, but, well, not that much better.

  • Moose Posted: Jun.19 at 9:38 am
    Chris Yeh, you need to at least include Kevin McHale in your PF debate.

  • B. Long Posted: Jun.19 at 9:40 am
    I’m no expert, but I damn sure know that Pistol Pete was better than Steve Nash.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 9:42 am
    And The Seed is insane. I’ll be the first one to admit that Kobe probably deserved Steve Nash’s second MVP (as long as you admit that Chris Paul deserved Kobe’s) but for chrissakes, how does Shaq deserve another MVP for doing exactly what Steve Nash did but with a much better sidekick (Dwayne Wade) and less wins?

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 9:42 am
    I think I should have qualified my Nash dig as both of those guys would have wore Steve down on the defensive end where he would have contributed significantly less than his 16 and 9 numbers he’s been putting up for years now. Neither one of those guys were as talented offensivley as him byt they made a living of eating up little guards, which Steve is, and he would have been no different.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 9:43 am
    I mean, I was actually fighting for Steve Nash to be EXCLUDED from the list, but the unintelligent haters just gottta get me back defending this guy. Incredible.

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 9:45 am
    No you’re right eboy, but are they much worse than gary paytons 18 and 7? Or stocktons 15 and 10? Numbers aren’t everything as we can see by this list. Pistol should definitley be on here though I agree with that.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 9:47 am
    Eboy: Are we talking one on one here or a team sport here? Even the Spurs, who dominated the Suns, didn’t stop Nash from getting his 10-15 assists a game. A lot of times, even Bowen couldnt’ stop Nash from getting his 20. D’Antoni or not, Nash is too talented of a passer and too precise of a shooter to shut down in a team venue.
    One on one, yeah, I’ll give it to you, DJ probably could have taken out Nash. Congratulations.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 9:47 am
    Jukai, Kobe team had the better record that year, Chris Paul missed out because the Lakers beat them head to head and most analyst, were like who ever has the best record should get it. I felt the same way about this year with Lebron, his team had the better record he should get it. Shaq Heat that year were considered a threat to win it all. Nash team was considered a regular season team, that would choke in the playoffs and they did.

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 9:48 am
    I think those numbers seem just right for GP and Stockton, one was a better scorer and one a better assist man. Steve falls 20 yards short ’cause those two played solid D (including Stockton, Jukai)and Steve can’t even spell defense.

  • Moose Posted: Jun.19 at 9:49 am
    You know I’m a Celtics dude, but DJ did have Larry Bird, Kevin McHale, Robert Parrish and Danny Ainge in the five with him. I’m not making an argument for either side, I’m just putting it out there.

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 9:50 am
    Bruce Bowen was never a guy I’d expect to shut down a premier point guard….he was a 2 guard/SF cover man….be realistic.

  • nick Posted: Jun.19 at 9:51 am
    why didn’t they let this season end before making the list? as for lebron, wtf, he shouldn’t be on the list yet!!!! isn’t it interesting that none of his achievments or stats were listed? He’ll be there, but at the beginning of the list you even said, “imagine if every current player retired tomorrow,” He would not be that high!!!! no way!!!

  • Moose Posted: Jun.19 at 9:52 am
    He would be able to push them, punch them in the n*ts and slap them in the chest though, Eboy,

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 9:55 am
    I think walt bellamy might be over rated. Maybe pistol deserves his spot

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 9:55 am
    The Seed: You’re a huge hypocrite when it comes to the Kobster, aren’t you? Nash had a better record than Kobe the year Nash won MVP, yet that shouldn’t matter what-so-ever… but when Kobe took the MVP away from Chris Paul, it was Kobe’s record that caused it. Gotya. Great. Thumbs up.
    And incase you were wondering, NO ONE thought the Heat could beat the Pistons that year. And everyone was right.
    Eboy: Why couldn’t Bruce Bowen guard a point guard? It’s not like he’s taking Aaron Brooks, Steve Nash isn’t that explosive. Are you saying the Spurs didn’t have anyone who could properly cover Steve Nash?
    Also, I agree, Gary Payton and Stockton were better than Nash. I’m glad we can agree on that. Thumbs up for you too many!

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 9:58 am
    Bryan: This one is for you….
    “When challenged, Wilt could do almost anything he wanted. In 1961 a new star named Walt Bellamy came into the league. Bellamy was 6-foot-10, and was scoring 30 points a game. First time they played against each other, they met at half court. Bellamy said, ‘Hello, Mr. Chamberlain. I’m Walter Bellamy.’ Chamberlain reached for Bellamy’s hand and said, ‘Hello, Walter. You won’t get a shot off in the first half.’ Wilt then blocked Bellamy’s first nine shots. At the start of the second half Wilt said to Bellamy, ‘Okay, Walter. Now you can play.’”

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.19 at 9:58 am
    See, that’s the thing with Steve Nash. Offensively, he’s up there with the best of them. Better shooter than GP and Kidd, and just as good a playmaker. In fact, purely on the offensive end he’s probably better than John Stockton (being a bit faster IMHO). But as much as Steve tries, and I know he does, he’s not half the defender these other guys are, in terms of individual *and* team defense.

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 9:59 am
    For the same reason Shaq couldn’t guard Michael or Kobe couldn’t guard Hakeem or Isiah couldn’t guard Ewing………you get it right?

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.19 at 10:03 am
    Would Nash have won a title in the mid 2000’s if not for the Spurs? He never got to the Finals, but if he had, the Suns would’ve given the Pistons and Heat a heck of a run. But I’m getting to hypothetical here maybe…

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 10:06 am
    Jukai, I am not talking about record with the suns, The whole thing the NBA adopted during this time is do more with less. Kobe did alot with Smush and Kwame not playing in the NBA now and Walton coming off the bench now. Nash to me is overrated, because people act like Amare and Marion can’t play without Nash, but they were putting up numbers before Nash. I just need to get the stats. Plus Nash is now back to his Dallas days. I think he is overrated, and will always think that. I would take Kevin Johnson in the Suns offense over Nash anyday.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 10:07 am
    Eboy: So Steve Nash is either faster or stronger than Bowen. Really.
    Well, guess Pop-a-zit REALLY made a mistake on that one, huh!!!
    Joel O: Well, I’d say that if it wasn’t for the Spurs, the mob, David Stern and Robert Horry’s hip…. but that’s just digressing.

  • cramzy Posted: Jun.19 at 10:16 am
    Ummmm….D-WADE ANYBODY?!!!!! 25/7/5 for his career..and oh yeah a ring and finals mvp. Lebron at 42 and D.Wade can’t at least get 50. Steve Nash? Really?

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 10:18 am
    The Seed: But wasn’t Chris Paul doing more with less even if he had half a game less in the win column than Kobe? Kobe had Gasol, Fisher back when Fisher was actually good, and Odom! Paul had a vastly overrated West, a Peja on the decline, and a Chandler who turns out is pretty damn terrible without Chris Paul. Chris Paul took a pretty terrible team and took that team DAMN far. He deserved the MVP that year, but BECAUSE Kobe had been cheated out of his rightful MVP because the media felt they had to give Nash a second MVP (I still don’t get why), they gave Kobe Chris Paul’s MVP. Once again, I agree with you that Kobe should have taken Nash’s econd MVP. But c’mon now, Chris Paul was the superior choice for Kobe’s actual MVP.
    Nash in his Dallas days would still kill Dennis Johnson.
    Kevin Johnson is another dude who is rated way too high for his own good. I have argued this wit5h both Walsh AND Allen. People look at his stats and say “WOW! THIS GUY WAS GREAT!” But he couldn’t hit anything out of 15 feet, making him a terribly unclutch player… and his stats dropped pretty considerably when Barkley joined the team, meaning Johnson had to be “the man” to get his points and assists, like a poor man’s Iverson. He never impressed me, and I DID watch him during his prime (unlike other cats I like to speak with authority on).

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 10:19 am
    Marbury average 21 points, 8 assists and 3 boards in his three years in the Suns uniform without a run and gun offense. Marion was an All Star and Amare was the Rookie of the year, but Nash made them better. Marbury numbers are better than Nash to me in the Suns uniform. Nash just average 3 more assist per game with no defense, which costed the Suns Finals apperances. Nash career he is averaging 14 points and 8 assists for his career, but gets credit for 3 years. Kevin Johnson average 19 points and 9 assists for his career. Who would you take? Whats wrong with America!!

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 10:20 am
    cramzy kind of stole my words, but I didn’t want to put it out like that and seem like a dopey homer like Jukai. Wade > Nash, 1000 times out of 1000.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 10:21 am
    Plus KJ posterized Hakeem the Dream.

  • Izzo Posted: Jun.19 at 10:23 am
    There’s a lot of talk about the most insignificant spot in the top 50.I wonder why that is?Personally I’m more worried about Shaq being top 5.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 10:25 am
    Eboy: Agreed. Agreed. Wade is way better than Nash. I thought Wade should have made the top-50 list and I dont’ get why people don’t consider Wade ALREADY in the top 10 shooting guards of ALL-TIME! He just dropped 30 with seven assists a game, he’s got a ring!
    That has nothing to do with Nash being better than all these other point guard cats you named! I’m not arguing Nash’s inclusion in the top 50 list, he doesn’t belong there!

  • Foxx Posted: Jun.19 at 10:26 am
    The more i think about it the crazier it seems…Steve Nash isnt even in the top 100. James Worthy, D-Wade, Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billiups all go ahead of his ass

  • Ben Osborne Posted: Jun.19 at 10:27 am
    This is fun.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 10:37 am
    Now to Shaq, since Jukai came to his senses about Nash, Shaq has one MVP and 3 Finals MVP, but is not even top 5 center of all time to me. Russell, Wilt, Hakeem, Kareem and you can argue David Robinson could be top 5 over Shaq. But Shaq is top 4 on this list. Maybe Shaq and Nash should team up, oh wait they did and lost in the first round.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 10:42 am
    The Seed: I was always on my sense about Nash… I said first thing Nash didn’t deserve a spot in the top 50 list… you don’t read… all I said was that Nash is better than DJ, KJ, and Cheeks, who also don’t deserve a spot in the top 50 list…
    Your last part about Nash and Shaq made me laugh though.

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 10:42 am
    Seed, you hate Shaq ’cause he left the Lakers. End of discussion. David Robinson? Seriously? Please. I think you young cats only take Shaq’s post Laker work into account as a snapshot of the dude’s career. He was a destructive force on par with only Wilt in his prime (who played in a lague of pygmies) in his prime. Try to keep that in mind when you are discountng the guy.

  • Edu Posted: Jun.19 at 10:43 am
    Every list is, Ben, every list…

  • coop Posted: Jun.19 at 10:46 am
    Kobe Bryant at #12 is not logical. I think he will always get slighted because of comparisons to Jordan and people hate him for going at Jordan at such an early age and that is sad how the world and media misconstrues him.

  • Hisham Posted: Jun.19 at 10:47 am
    David Robinson can not be ranked higher than Shaq on any list

  • jumpman3224 Posted: Jun.19 at 10:47 am
    There are certain benchmarks in sports that can help a player make up a lot of ground in a list like this. In the NBA the 2-time MVP club is a pretty short list and although you could debate his deserving those and although doesn’t compare to the other members in that group Nash does have two MVPs. I’m not saying Nash should be a lock or if they do this list a season from now Nash couldn’t easily be moved from 50 to 55, but him a little due. Also, DRob over Shaq? Shaq averaged more points, rebounds for his career has twice as many rings, the same amount of MVPs and 3 more finals MVPs (3-0). Can’t wait til the next edition of this list a few years from now to see where Kobe, LBJ and Wade are standing at that point.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 10:48 am
    Eboy: He was a force of nature dude, a tremendous tremendous force of nature. Do you think he’s better than Kareem, Wilt or Hakeem? (I personally will put Russell over Shaq on a list of all-time greats, but I feel that Russell is a little overrated. Not getting into that.)

  • jumpman3224 Posted: Jun.19 at 10:52 am
    Eboy: totally in agreement that Wade is right now a top ten all time 2 guard!

  • larrylegend Posted: Jun.19 at 10:52 am
    really great fun :))..a word from the mighty SLAM, how they come to this list and who they left out unfairly, would help.
    still asking myself, why the chief missed the cut? and the pistol?

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 10:52 am
    Shaq is no better than the 5th best center of all time, so theres no way hes the 4th best player.

  • jumpman3224 Posted: Jun.19 at 10:53 am
    Eboy: Tottaly in agreement WADE is an all time top ten 2 guard RIGHT NOW!

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 10:53 am
    I think he’s better (in terms of his place in history and the competition he played against) than three of those guys, for sure.

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 10:54 am
    Perception is a bi*ch.

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 10:56 am
    Izzo that is the most disturbing part of the list by far.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 10:58 am
    Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem & Russell. If the criteria are accomplishments and ability, he doesnt have a case against any of em.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 11:00 am
    Eboy: Well, I think you’re a little misguided but I understand people who believe Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell couldn’t dominate in today’s league. Personally, I think someone who dropped 50 and 20 on all those midgets everyday could easily average 35 and 15 in today’s game, especially since he also averaged 7 assists in a day where it was REALLY a pain to get assists (meaning double and triple teaming him becomes massively dangerous, unlike, let’s say, Dwight, who couldn’t pass his way out of a paper bag). However, I think Jabbar, who played through the 70s and 80s, played a LOT of tough big men competition. All from Chamberlain, Gilmore, Hayes, Thurmond to Parish, Hakeem, Malone, he played them all, and most of the time just dominated them.
    I’m actually a little surprised… everyone’s so angry that Hakeem is below Shaq, but I don’t see a lot of Jabbar support.
    I mean, you do know Jabbar was the -BEST- center ever, purely offensively, right? (That should generate plenty of discussion)
    jumpman3224: I said Wade was a top-10 shooting guard, not Eboy. Eboy actually laughed at me a year ago when I said that.

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 11:01 am
    Asisde from centers larry and magic are both light years better than shaq.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 11:03 am
    Kareem Abdul Jabbar played over practically two eras en route to scoring more than anyone ever has, or probably will. Hes the most decorated player in league history this side of Jordan. And even thats arguable. Wilt rewrote the history books and his athleticism would translate in any era, because he actually took care of himself. Russell is the greatest winner in the history of the sport and Dream is arguably the best two way player at his position if not any, ever. Shaq is still the guy who couldnt defend a pick and roll, never led the league in rebounds or blocks, had questionable footwork and was swept out of the playoffs six times.

  • the only one two and three Posted: Jun.19 at 11:04 am
    what about pistol pete?

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 11:04 am
    Light years? What? Whoa, this sh*t is getting even more stupid than I thought it could. Magic maybe, but Larry?

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 11:04 am
    I can’t hate on the list. I mean, I would argue, but it’s a good list.
    And, according to this list, Iverson is probably the fourth greatest shooting guard of all time, and top ten guards period. I can live with that.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 11:05 am
    Myles, I’d like to shake your hand.
    Bryan: Lightyears is a little harsh but…
    Eboy: I’d choose Bird on my team over Shaq every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Cause, you know, Sunday you pick players twice or something.

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 11:08 am
    You’d be losing a ton then, but you fandom is bred that way, so it’s not a surprise.

  • Papou Posted: Jun.19 at 11:09 am
    Pistol Pete. PISTOL PETE!!!

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 11:10 am
    Eboy: You… you really think Shaq is better than Larry Bird?

  • Reflex Posted: Jun.19 at 11:10 am
    Re Nash as I said earlier on, Chris Paul >>>>> Nash by a mile, and Wade’s (Ring, Final’s MVP, crazy stellar numbers, carried a unfavoured team to a chip) should be in the top 50 no doubt. ESPECIALLY IF NASH IS THERE FFS!

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 11:10 am
    Jukai
    You still riding that “Nash is better than KJ” train?
    Based on what? The MVPS? Check the stats homie, and watch the film. KJ eats Nash up all day and all night.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 11:11 am
    cosign Myles
    And about David Robinson he was not shabby himself I will show stats, thats why you can argue with him being around Shaq
    NBA Champion (1999, 2003)
    NBA MVP (1995)
    NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1992)
    NBA Rookie of the Year (1990)
    All-NBA First Team (1991, ‘92, ‘95, ‘96)
    All-NBA Second Team (1994, ‘98)
    All-NBA Third Team (1990, ‘93, 2000, ‘01)
    All-Defensive First Team (1991, ‘92, ‘95, ‘96)
    All-Defensive Second Team (1990, ‘93, ‘94, ‘98)
    10-time NBA All-Star
    Only player in NBA history to win the Rebounding, Blocked Shots, and Scoring Titles and Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year and MVP
    One of only four players to have recorded a quadruple-double
    NBA Sportsmanship Award (2001)
    Third player in NBA history to rank among the league’s top 10 in five categories in one season (7th in scoring (23.2 ppg), 4th in rebounding (12.2 rpg), 1st in blocks (4.49 per game), 5th in steals (2.32 per game) and 7th in field-goal percentage (.551))
    First player in NBA history to rank among the top five in rebounding, blocks and steals (per game) in a single season[6]
    Fourth player ever to score 70+ in an NBA game
    3-time Olympian (1988, ‘92, ‘96)
    One of 50 Greatest Players in NBA History (1996)
    Led NBA in Scoring (1993–94 season) - 29.8 ppg
    Led NBA in Rebounding (1990–91 season) - 13.0 rpg
    Led NBA in Blocked Shots (1991–92 season) - 4.49 bpg
    Holds record for most IBM Awards (1990, ‘91, ‘94, ‘95, ‘96)
    Gold Medal in 1986 FIBA World Championship.[12]
    Member of Dream Team #1 during Olympic Games at Barcelona.
    Elected into the Naismith Basketball Hall of Fame.
    Elected to the U.S. Olympic Hall of Fame Class of 2008

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 11:12 am
    Larry and magic are top five imo. Light years is a little strong but cmon larry could score on anyone got ten boards a game playing with 2 other decent rebounders and got 6 assists a game as a forward. You can’t act like larry wasn’t sh*t and he won 3 titles in the 80s which is like the golden age of nba ball.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 11:14 am
    Allen: Look, I’ve argued this with you and eventually you said “LOOK I’M DONE F YOU!”
    We can start the debate all over again, both make good points and then get angry at each other, or I can just sigh and accuse you of hating Steve Nash because he’s white. I’ll choose the latter.

  • Zee! Posted: Jun.19 at 11:14 am
    Please believe it.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 11:15 am
    I’d rather have Shaq then Bird.
    And, I would pick Shaq over Russell to start a team if I needed an alpha scorer. If I needed a defender and team player, I would probably pick Russell. But, I agree with Myles on Hakeem, Wilt and Kareem being better than Shaq. I choose all three of them first because they are better alpha scorers and complete players. I don’t think Russell is a more complete player than Shaq, but he has crazy intangibles.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 11:16 am
    Jukai
    It ain’t ’cause he’s white. But, you’re right, it makes no sense to go back down that road. However, ever time you say “Nash > KJ” I will bust your chops.

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 11:16 am
    Shia, and you’re acting like Shaq wasn’t sh*t either. So stop being dopey like Jukai and I never down-talked Larry, I just said that he wouldn’t be above Shaq in my que is all.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 11:17 am
    Last thing on this. The other centers on this list (and those at other positions like Magic & Larry but I wont get into that) are so decorated and talented that you find yourself looking at Wilt, Dream and Kareem (Russell wasnt the scorer they were, but he was hardly Rodmanesque and Wilts struggles at the line were legendary, but that about it) wondering, “Damn, what WERENT they good at?” But as soon as you say the name Shaq a half dozen flaws come to mind. Yet, hes in front of all of them. Sigh.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 11:17 am
    Shaq is better than David Robinson. There is no argument. That is a case where stats don’t tell the whole picture.

  • Zee! Posted: Jun.19 at 11:17 am
    About Myles points that is.

  • RedRum Posted: Jun.19 at 11:18 am
    I would put TD, Hakeem, Russel, jabar, and Wilt far ahead from Shaq.. remember, Shaq is one of the worse defenders that played the position and never won a rebounding title…

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 11:22 am
    Allen: Fair enough.
    Myles: I want to shake your hand and then pat you on the back. Your logic is unreasonably correct today.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 11:22 am
    RedRum thats why I bring David Robinson into this argument, he was a complete player, give David Robinson a Kobe or Dwade he gets two more titles or if David Robinson tried to play forever like Shaq he could have had two more titles with the Spurs. That meaning David Robinson would have had 4 rings like Shaq. The Spurs did win two more without David, but had better point guards and shooting guards surrounding Tim.

  • Zee! Posted: Jun.19 at 11:23 am
    The 1992 and 1996 Drafts aired on NBA TV last night. Man I feel old.

  • Izzo Posted: Jun.19 at 11:25 am
    Nice to see Rus Bradburd’s name up there.

  • Washtub Posted: Jun.19 at 11:25 am
    i don’t get all the shaq hate. now he’s being compared to David Robinson??? wtf??
    quick reminder: shaq may have been swept out of that houston series, but he was not totally OWNED like a certain season mvp was…

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 11:30 am
    David Robinson is very underated a guy who averaged 24 ppg, 12 rpg and 4 bpg as a rookie, and went for 30 and 11 a few years later is not around Shaq is not right. What could Shaq do that David Robinson could not do. I know some things David did that Shaq didn’t do and David played against better talent, David lead the league in rebounding and block shots and got a Defense MVP award.

  • Washtub Posted: Jun.19 at 11:30 am
    f*ck a shaq hate!
    since it’s legitimate to include people on this list based on “what ifs” (number 42, i’m looking at you):
    IF shaq had the work ethic of one kobe bryant, we would be discussing whether he is worthy of number 1 or not.
    sadly, he’s a lazy f*ck and has to live with no4

  • don Posted: Jun.19 at 11:32 am
    had AI been giving a more reliable teammate than aaron mckie and eric snow, he would be higher on the list,.

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 11:32 am
    Shaq being lazy late in his career is the key determining factor to most of the haters taking shots at him. Gotta like that thinking.

  • Washtub Posted: Jun.19 at 11:33 am
    Things Shaq did which David Robinson (and Hakeem, and Patrick Ewing) didn’t:
    Scare a whole decade of 7-footers, including all-time greats like TD, into playing PF

  • Michael Posted: Jun.19 at 11:34 am
    i would go as far as saying kareem is a worthy number 1

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 11:36 am
    Its arguable that Shaq was always lazy, it just didn’t catch up with him til he got older. He wasn’t always a hard worker, he was just young.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 11:37 am
    Myles
    Gotta disagree. When I look at most of the cats on the list I can pick out flaws in their games, and with some of the stalwarts (Magic, Bird, Russell) the flaws are not small.
    I think Shaq had flaws, but his dominance approached Wilt’s dominance. Plus, people underestimate the way Shaq made the game so much easier for role players. All great players make the game easier, but Shaq was on another level.
    So, I think he’s third or fourth best center of all-time. And I think if I was picking a team, I’m picking the big fellow over Magic and Bird. Cause big men are the answer.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 11:38 am
    Don: What the HELL do you call Carmello, Camby, Hamilton, Webber, Iguadala, Rasheed and Prince? Damn, man!

  • Washtub Posted: Jun.19 at 11:38 am
    EBOY: Most haters being born when Shaq was drafted is the reason for them taking shots at him

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 11:42 am
    Man this David Robinson comparison is some crapola.
    Shaq had a lot of flaws, but cats acting like David Robinson didn’t. Come on now.

  • B. Long Posted: Jun.19 at 11:42 am
    Shaq might’ve avg. 70 a game in Wilt’s era. Real talk.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 11:43 am
    Everyone needs to read this article comparing David vs. Shaq and you will understand based off stats and players around them why I feel David is around Shaq. This is one of the best articles ever written comparing centers. This website has STATS not people watching players playing on TV. IN THIS STUDY DAVID TOPS SHAQ!! http://dberri.wordpress.com/2008/09/07/the-best-nba-center-in-my-student%E2%80%99s-life/

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 11:45 am
    My link is under moderation, 11:43am comment, once this link comes up, this website compares numbers and everything else and guess who wins, David tops Shaq in his career as an NBA center.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 11:47 am
    Jukai
    How about KJ, Kidd, Marion, Dirk, Amare, Joe Johnson and Shaq?
    Hmmmm…
    Throwing out names is wack. Yeah, Iverson had good teammates at times, but the point was that in his absolute prime, his teammates weren’t up to snuff.

  • B. Long Posted: Jun.19 at 11:47 am
    David Robinson was routinely treated as Shaq’s b!tch during his prime.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 11:48 am
    Conversely its hardly discussed how certain players made the game much easier for Shaq. When there’s ant one of multiple All NBA first team guards waiting on the perimeter if he’s doubled then that’s a tough decision for a D to make. Additionally its nice to have one of them around when he decides to take half the season off while your team is fighting for conference positioning.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 11:48 am
    Seed
    If we’re comparing numbers alone, through their first six seasons, Lebron tops Kobe.
    Wilt and Kareem top everybody.

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 11:50 am
    Numbers and blind hate mean nothing in this debate.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 11:51 am
    Allenp: Please name flaws that Magic and Bird had.
    They were what, average man-to-man defenders, even though they were great at disrupting passing lanes and fantastic team defenders?
    Magic only had a good three-point shot at the end of his career (like Jordan?). Bird was not as fast as most of his legendary peers (even though his speed is greatly downplayed, he was faster than your average player).
    I mean, in my opinion, Magic and Bird were COMPLETE players. Period. What flaws do you see in them?

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 11:54 am
    Allenp: You can throw out those names and you’d be 100% absolutely right. Nash DID have great teammates. It should be noted Nash did not accomplish anything alone. I will say the opposite is true with Iverson: Iverson did not accomplish anything when NOT alone. I know you love to use Nash to defend your all-loving Iverson, but unfortunately, you used a fact which was correct, and indeed a problem for both Nash and Iverson (albeit in reverse).
    And just so you know, I was responding to Don saying “IF IVERSON HAD SOMEONE BETTER THAN…” you think if Iverson had Carmello, or Webber, or Rasheed, with the way that team was built, he could have beat the Lakers with prime Shaq and near prime Kobe?
    I’d say it would still be five games.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 11:54 am
    Myles
    Can’t argue with that. Shaq benefited from having Kobe, Penny and Wade. Anybody who disagrees with that is a fool.
    But, it’s not like Robinson had NOBODY. And, the truth is, he won two rings with Duncan, but they were also routinely dominated by Shaq and the Lakers.
    So, Shaq is flawed, every player is flawed. I don’t think Shaq is the fourth best of all time, because I think Hakeem, Kareem and Wilt were better than him, along with Jordan and potentially Magic and Oscar.
    I think a valid argument can be made for Shaq being better than anybody else after those cats.

  • big bad boss Posted: Jun.19 at 11:55 am
    good thing rodman is included in the list, i’ll hate slam if his name isnt included..

  • LBJ23 Posted: Jun.19 at 11:56 am
    ive got one big problem with this list: Jordan at #1! are you kidding me?!
    im sick of all this jordan’s the best ever crap….wilts got better stats, russells got more rings, kobes got better D, dr.j’s a better dunker….man…

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 11:58 am
    For all the clamor over Oscar, it should be noted that in the early 80s (I forget which year) Magic was a fraction of a point away from averaging a triple double himself. And he led the league in steals that year. And I believe he won a title too. Magic > Shaq.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 12:00 pm
    Allenp, I am not comparing numbers, the link I was trying to put up, compared seasons and the players around you as a team and David had better seasons than Shaq overall. Shaq looked better doing it and was dominate with great 2 guard play. David is the Only player in NBA history to win the Rebounding, Blocked Shots, and Scoring Titles and Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year and MVP

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.19 at 12:01 pm
    As much as Shaq benefited from having played with a trio of NBA First-teamers, note that for Shaq’s ENTIRE CAREER, even arguably today, his very presence on a team instantly vaults that team into “Contender” status.

  • LBJ23 Posted: Jun.19 at 12:02 pm
    @myles: magic averaged 18.6 ppg, 9.5 apg, and 9.6 rpg with 2.7 spg in 81-82

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 12:03 pm
    The Seed: I think other players have won rebounding titels, blocked shot titles, scoring titles, ROY, DPOY and MVP.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 12:04 pm
    Joel O: Actually, I think for Phoenix it was “sh*t… so much for all those playoff runs…”

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 12:11 pm
    Robinson probably is the only guy to do that since Jordan took ROY from Dream and there was no DPOY back in the day.

  • ciroqobama Posted: Jun.19 at 12:15 pm
    (Slam on Bob Cousy) “his crossover would crack any present day below-average NBA defender’s ankles”…. No, Bob fn Cousy isn’t crossing up anyone in the league today… okay maybe Eddy Curry

  • James the balla Posted: Jun.19 at 12:16 pm
    This season Kobe should top iverson in points. just thought i would put that out there. O and whats up Eboy, BET, Juk’s, Brown, Joel, the seed, allen … and teddy the bear: you are gay!

  • James the balla Posted: Jun.19 at 12:19 pm
    LBJ23 … even if all those people have better dunks and whatever else. Jordan put it all together.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 12:21 pm
    Hi James.

  • fragile Posted: Jun.19 at 12:28 pm
    Who would be on the all-injury list? Off the top of my head, I can think of Bill Walton (you could argue he should be on here anyway), Connie Hawkins (obviously some other factors involved there, too), Grant Hill, Penny, Bernard King…you could even argue that injuries are the reason for DWade not being ahead of Nash right now. Anyone else?

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.19 at 12:29 pm
    @Jukai:
    Shaq to Phoenix? I think that didn’t work out for a number of reasons. He *did* revive his career over the last season or two, to his credit. But the Suns movement away from their competitive edge, loss of D’Antoni, and then haphazard move to restore the run-and-gun game with Gentry has set them back years. Also, Marion. I can’t really blame Shaq for all that.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 12:32 pm
    Joel O: Same with Iverson, you can’t say Iverson ruined the Pistons, it was dumb for anyone to put both Shaq and AI in that situation, taking away their strengths and forcing them to learn an alien system very quickly.
    That being said, your statement was incorrect!

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.19 at 12:32 pm
    Hey James. Some accomplishment by Kobe, astonishing how much mileage he’s had at such a young age.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 12:34 pm
    I am done giving everybody the correct info on David vs. Shaq, David had the better career, go to my 11:43am comment and click on the link, this website truly compared the great Nba centers and David beat Goliath to me and the person who wrote the article and compared the stats,career and accomplishments of them both.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 12:41 pm
    Bob Cousy has a sub 40 percent career shooting percentage. Nobody ever discusses this. Can you imagine what type of chucker he had to be to get those 18 points with no three point line and shooting less than 40 percent.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 12:43 pm
    Seed
    Comparing people based on numbers without giving consideration to what you saw on the floor is a problem.

  • Khalid Salaam Posted: Jun.19 at 12:43 pm
    The complaints about Shaq’s place on the list really surprises me. You guys act like i said jermaine O’neal they way people are acting. But i’m not here to defend it. I stand by what i wrote. But i don’t want anyone thinking i’m avoiding this so i will address a couple of things…..My rationale in ranking Shaq is based upon the ability to defend Shaq at his late 90’s/early 00’s apex. I love Dream, no doubt and i think its great that a lot of people have come to his defense. I’ve seen a few people even say he should be number 1 all-time centers. Which is revisionist bs but that’s cool-to each his own. and yeah Dream and the Rockets swept the Magic and Dream gave Shaq the whole arsenal but its not like Shaq was destroyed. He averaged 28.0 points (.595 FG%, .571 FT%), 12.5 rebounds, 6.3 assists, 2.5 blocks in the series. I mean, those are great numbers. Great numbers. Shaq and the magic were just too young to win against a vet team like those rockets…But again back to my rationale. Dream was 6′10 and weighed 255. Shaq 7′1 and during apex years 330 plus. The weight difference is significant if only for the fact that Shaq played with a punishing style. I mean, all of you know this right?? C’mon, Shaq in the paint is the hardest match-up ever. Stop playing……My last point is this. I think a lot of people have Shaq fatigue. The Suns didn’t make the playoffs yet he stays in the news and i think that contributes to people not wanting to give him his due. But remember this. THE NBA put Shaq on their greatest 50 ever team after his 4th season BEFORE he had even won a single ring. 4 rings later and umpteen all nba team selections later it seems justified. Now thats real.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 12:47 pm
    Khalid: I bet they would not have put Shaq fourth on that top 50 list, though.

  • j4zzm4n Posted: Jun.19 at 12:49 pm
    no wade is just silly.shaq is way too high kareem should be higher ,so too magic and kobe.kareem was far better than shaq,unquestionably better.

  • Jonathan Posted: Jun.19 at 12:54 pm
    Nash should NOT be on this list. He should never have won an MVP award, let alone 2. Those MVP awards should have been Kobe’s( and I’m a Kobe hater!). The fact that you have Nash in and Maravich out is absolutely ridiculous!

  • Ciolkstar Posted: Jun.19 at 12:55 pm
    I don’t think Drob is better than Shaq, but that stat about leading the league in blocks, rebounds, and scoring (atleast once) AND winning the ROY, DPOY, and MVP over the span of his career is really impressive. everyone knows he got KILLED by the Dream that one year, but DRob was and forever will be an alltime great player and person.
    Jukai: Who else has led the L in scoring rebounding and blocks and won ROY, DPOY and MVP?

  • James the balla Posted: Jun.19 at 12:57 pm
    It is kind of funny watching ya’ll post, because truly, every argument is correct. Same with kobe and bron. Shaq and David. I mean. They are all right!! i mean someone is always going to be left out or mispalced in a top 50. How may players in the 60 years of the NAb have played in the league. If SLAM made a top 150 list, orrr a top 500 list. It will be the same. I am saying Kobe should be top 10 where as Lebron should be behind Wade. But hey … we are all using arguemnts that are ALL valid and in no way can we rate it. But we can damn sure argue it. Kareem can be put at number 1 but for anyone who watched MJ play … it is all fan love and who you grew up watching as a kid. Who your father told you to watch and study play the game. Let’s stop arguing and go out and enjoy the beautiful weather.

  • Khalid Salaam Posted: Jun.19 at 12:57 pm
    jukai: that was 96-97. he’s accomplished a lot since then. i think people on this site just like to argue for arguments sake sometimes. did someone really say that david robinson was on shaqs level? I mean, really?

  • Washtub Posted: Jun.19 at 12:58 pm
    Regarding No42:
    When Kobe was just shy of his 25th birthday, he was a three time NBA champion.
    Not hatin on the player, just sick of the James-Jones lovefest

  • Jeff Posted: Jun.19 at 12:58 pm
    Someone said that Hakeem maybe would have 3-peated if Jordan wasn’t in the league. Someone else pondered if Bird would have won another ring if Jordan wasn’t in the league. Jordan’s Bulls never played the Rockets or beat the Celtics in the playoffs, so this makes no sense.

  • Hanoon Posted: Jun.19 at 12:59 pm
    COME ON, WHERE IS “PISTOL” PETE MARAVICH???? out of all of the top fifty players, NONE of them beat pistol’s college record of AVERAGING 40 ppg WITHOUT the 3 point line (with it would bring it up to like 60 ppg); on top of that he played throughout his whole life with a defected heart and he died during a pick up game (RIP)…. show this guy some respect, like DAMN

  • Ciolkstar Posted: Jun.19 at 1:00 pm
    ^ Thanks to the big Diesel

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 1:00 pm
    Khalid those are certainly valid points, but I also think it should be considered that while Shaq was unquestionably a physical presence, other players were just as effective with their finesse/athleticism. What Shaq brings in raw power Wilt does also and Dream and Kareem provide with skill. And I just think that Dreams skillset gives him a case for being the best two way player at his position, which naturally projects him into the discussion of best center of all time.

  • James the balla Posted: Jun.19 at 1:01 pm
    ^ thanks to your STUpidity

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 1:03 pm
    @fragile:
    Penny Hardaway as the point, Tracy McGrady as guard, Grant Hill as my small forward, Alanzo Mourning at the four spot, and Big Bill Walton at my five.
    Chris Webber would be sixth man of my team.
    Rack up the second unit with Shaun Livingston, Doug Collins, Darius Miles, and Ralph Sampson.
    Drazen Petrovic and Len Bias ’round up that motley crew.
    I’m sure Sugar Ray Richardson and David Thompson want in, but getting arrested or falling down stairs because of coke doesn’t count.
    Yao Ming and Greg Oden could become a vital part of this team very soon.
    I want to put Bernard King in, but I think we SAW Bernard King’s ceiling… and then he got injured. Same with Connie. I don’t think anyone on my list, you can really say you saw the TOP of their game (even Bill Walton was constantly hurt throughout college and never played 75 games in the NBA. That was sure to hurt his mobility: imagine what he’d have been if he wasn’t always hurt!)

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.19 at 1:04 pm
    @Jukai: Hmm let me clarify something here… as a Suns fan, and someone who probably watches 50+ more Suns games a season than I do, do you feel that the Shaq trade messed up the Suns?

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 1:05 pm
    Ciolkstar: A LOT of people have gotten those acolades. Just, not all of them together. I was making a funny, you see.

  • Michael Posted: Jun.19 at 1:06 pm
    I don’t care want anyone says. Oscar is way to high. There is no way he should be above Kobe and West. When you get to that caliber of player, everyone is equaly impresive in their own right. Winning has to count for something. Shaq is little high but I can understand, I would have him at 7.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 1:07 pm
    Furthermore, Shaq may have been too young in that Houston series, but he was swept out of the playoffs five other times. Including four times during his prime. I just dont understand how people can say he was so unstoppable and keep ignoring that.

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 1:07 pm
    Nah eboy I happen to like shaq, and respect him but I’d put wilt russell kareem magic and bird before him on the list and of course mike, making him no better than seventh off the top of my head.

  • B. Long Posted: Jun.19 at 1:12 pm
    Shaq in 2001 would give it to any other center ever in their prime. He combined raw power AND sick post moves. You can’t act like the guy just got by on physical tools alone. Dude was skilled.

  • Michael Posted: Jun.19 at 1:13 pm
    Like a said it think Shaq is a little high. But the Hakeem over Shaq agrument is ridiculous. Kareem was amazing no doubt but SHaq at his peak was the most unstoppable force the league may have ever seen. HE was one of the three best playoff performers of all time and he has 4 RINGS!!! God does winning mean nothing to you people.

  • Michael Posted: Jun.19 at 1:13 pm
    Hakeem was amazing.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 1:14 pm
    Khalid: I know, apparently if you look at Robinson’s stats and calculate his team’s stats and calculate time and all that nonsense, David Robinson is a better player or something. Clearly, with that logic, we have no chance but to admit we were wrong and that Robinson is WAY better than Shaq.
    There are two things that hold me back with Shaq:
    1- I think you’re underrating how dominante Kareem and Chamberlain were. Neither of them could be touched by anyone. Chamberlain certainly far more than Shaq (if you read what Elvin Hayes, Artis Gilmore, Nate Thurmond had to say… they were SCARED to go against this guy, scared of getting hurt!) but I guess you could argue that Chamberlain was just so much stronger than anyone back in that time, it was logical to be fearful… I just think Chamberlain, from all accounts, is as strong (maybe slightly weaker, not in physical strength but just the lack of gurth), and faster and jumps higher than Shaq… so why wouldn’t people fear him more?
    Kareem didn’t strike fear into people the same way Shaq did… but I think he was MORE dominant. It was pretty much, if Kareem’s skyhook was hitting, you lost the game. There was no way to defend it. The dude was 7′2, and he had the wingspan as big as my body, and he was arching his body as high as it would go to get the ball off. I know of three people who blocked it, EVER, in all the time that Kareem has used it. Kareem would run and finish the fast break (even at 35!) he’d catch alley-oop dunks, he’d fade for points over smaller defenders, he wasn’t your typical “GRIND IT OUT AND DOMINATE” center but I think he was just as dominating in terms of his ability to score and change the game. And he was a better defender. So there.
    Hakeem and Shaq are a little bit more preferecial to me. Shaq was more dominating, but Hakeem, I don’t know, he just seemed that much more skilled. That could push someone around and drag three defenders all game, but that’s a slow, grind them out game. Sure, Shaq had the twirl, he had ups to get alleyoops, he had a somewhat reliable chamberlain-like fingerroll/flick… but it was a limited arsenal. Hakeem could score faster with post moves that would make McHale cry. That to me is just superior offense. Domination isn’t necessarily as useful as downright effectiveness.
    David Robinson isn’t even close to Shaq.

  • B. Long Posted: Jun.19 at 1:14 pm
    The funny thing is that I actually agree with Myles point about him being lazy pretty much his entire career. That’s what is scary. If Shaq actually worked hard he’d be pushing MJ hard for that number 1 spot.

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 1:17 pm
    I also hope some of you note the inflated rebound numbers from the 50’s and 60’s no way oscar averages a triple double in the 80s or 90s. And comparing eras saying shaq would average 70 a game back , well as skilled as steve nash is he probably would be the first to lead the league in points and assists (and not nate the skate) and probably get 5 or 6 boards a game too in the nba early years. So what’s the point of saying something like that?

  • B. Long Posted: Jun.19 at 1:17 pm
    The only player who can even make a legit arguement in the center debate is Hakeem. The ONLY one.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.19 at 1:20 pm
    I was going to wait for this list with my issue… I was going to get it next week!
    Anyways, this is awesome.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 1:21 pm
    Michael: Winning means much less to me than it does to you. Being there and losing to superior teams means just as much to me. Should Jerry West get penalized and dropped down to 30-something because he only one once, and was (MULTIPLE TIMES) two points away fromm being a 3-4 time NBA champion? Same with Oscar?
    Should Shaq automatically get more credit for his 4 rings than Hakeem with his two rings, even though Shaq had so much more help on his team. Should Julias Erving get docked for only having one NBA ring when he spent most of his prime in the ABA winning rings over there?
    Should Robert Horry be in the top ten with his seven rings?

  • B. Long Posted: Jun.19 at 1:22 pm
    That’s my point, Bryan. There is no damn way that Wilt could compare to Shaq. It’s called evoultion. Shaq is the Wilt of todays generation. It’s just like there is no damn way Oscar Robertson or Elgin Baylor could compare to LBJ and Jerry West wouldn’t have a chance against Kobe. As time and the game have progressed the players have become better. That doesn’t take anything away from what these guys did in their era, but to say that Wilt is the second greatest player of all time when only one guy in the entire league could even challenge him is a little absurd.

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 1:22 pm
    David robinson is missing one thing and that’s alpha dog heart. You know how vince carter had the best numbers on the nets but it was still jason kidds team? Its the same with robinson he put up great numbers but I don’t think you could ever call the spurs his to run. He didn’t assert his will on games. I’m not saying his numbers are hollow or anything like that but he needed to be 1a before he won anything because he could never just be THAT guy. All the skill and athleticism in the world no question but he just wasn’t that dude.

  • Khalid Salaam Posted: Jun.19 at 1:23 pm
    Myles, this is not boxing. if a guy’s team gets swept there are other things to consider. off the top of my head i can recall the 96 bulls (no shame getting swept by them) and then i think twice by the jazz in the late 90’s. but those were really good teams with really good coaches (sloan, jackson). those laker teams in the 90’s were coached by del harris after all. and again, its simply mathematics where im concerned. 7′1 and 330 with power, quickness and skill. i just don’t know who could have guarded him in his prime. also, shaq was not a crappy defensive player. unmotivated at times yes and bad in pick and roll situations yes but in man to man D he was good. people need to stop pretending he wasn’t. i don’t take anything back. if i’m starting a team damn right i’m takin shaq over magic, bird, dream, etc because in addition to physical skills shaq beat dudes mentally. he had the whole league shook for years. thats stuff matters.

  • Ben Osborne Posted: Jun.19 at 1:25 pm
    I was eagerly awaiting Khalid’s arrival, and as I expected, he has not disappointed.

  • Khalid Salaam Posted: Jun.19 at 1:28 pm
    Also, i have a preference for big men. thats how u win rings.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 1:28 pm
    I just pointed out where Magic missed a triple average by fractions of a point in 1981. Theres no reason that Oscar couldnt do it either. This talk is getting ridiculous. Jerry West, Wilt and several other stars would have no problem with todays game because while they may not jump as high and all that sh*t, fundamentals are fundamentals for a reason. It doesnt matter how fast you are or how mean your crossover is if you cant shoot, defend or fully comprehend basic principles of the game.

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 1:28 pm
    Some people transcend eras B if you don’t think a 7′1 275 pound jumping jack tracklete wouldn’t dominate in todays nba you’re nuts, maybe not 50 and 25 but 35 and 15 definitley. Dude used to palm bolwing balls. He dunked the ball while another man had it tied up for a jump ball. Seriously he is on shaq’s level in every category and I’d argue a little more athletic.

  • B. Long Posted: Jun.19 at 1:30 pm
    I agree with pretty much everything Khalid said. I’m not sure I’d take him first overall out of everybody if I was building an all time dream team of players in their prime, but I’d damn sure have to think about it. Dude scared a whole generation of 7 footers into practicing crossovers and jumpshots.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 1:31 pm
    I agree that there are underlying circumstances in playoff losses and that it is a team sport. His team lost and thats understandable. What isnt is that hes being proclaimed so unstoppable and dominant, yet he couldnt even will his team to ONE win in SIX separate series? Four during his prime? It wont ever add up to me.

  • B. Long Posted: Jun.19 at 1:33 pm
    Myles, you really think that Jerry West would be a star in the league today? Really?

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 1:33 pm
    B Long:
    Here are some neato facts about Chamberlain!!!
    -He was a high jumper in college, jumping over six feet in the high jump
    -In pregame and halftime shows, he would dunk on 12-foot baskets to entertain people
    -He once dunked a ball so hard, it rocketed through the hoop and hit Red Kerr in the foot, shattering his toe.
    -He once caught someone’s dunk attempt in mid air and the sudden force caused the opposing player’s (I forget the dude’s name, saw it on NBA TV) back to be thrown
    -Chamberlain had a consistant hook shot, finger roll, and turnaround jumper. Many people think Chamberlain could have even broken 50 points a game if he had constantly taken the ball to the hole, instead of screwing around with trick shots.
    -Chamberlain led the league in assists (7.3 a game!!!!). Please note, it was much hard to get assists back in those days. It’s entirely possible that 7.3 could have been ten assists a game in today’s game. That’s approaching triple double territory.
    -On the same note, Chamberlain once had a 20-20-20 game. Only person in history to do so.
    -He also was able to play an entire 48 minute season, proving he has immense stamina.
    -TIME magazine reported that Chamberlain was outsprinting Jabbar on the break in the 1972 NBA WCF. This was when Jabbar was 24 and Chamberlain was 34.
    So, tell me, with his immense strength, speed, stamina and agility, how the HELL could the dude not dominate in today’s league? This is not George Mikan we’re talking about. Chamberlain was the most effective scorer ever, and I have no doubt that if Chamberlain played today, he’d go for something like 35-15-6 with four blocks a game. While playing 44 minutes a game. Easy.

  • Co Co Posted: Jun.19 at 1:33 pm
    I agree.

  • Khalid Salaam Posted: Jun.19 at 1:36 pm
    Cap played at 267 and Wilt at 275. Shaq outweighed them both by 60 pounds plus. Yes, they would have scored on him but they would have gotten beat up in the post in say, a 6 or 7 game series. And for the record i respect the hell outta the old school players. Much respect. But the numbers don’t lie.

  • Co Co Posted: Jun.19 at 1:36 pm
    with Myles.

  • Lang Whitaker Posted: Jun.19 at 1:37 pm
    Didn’t Chamberlain also have a career as a beach volleyball star after he retired from the NBA?

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.19 at 1:37 pm
    A couple beefs I have, though well done: Clyde Frazier is only #35… Patrick Ewing is only #36… Allen Iverson is only #39… Iceman is only #45…
    WHAT?! THERE’S NO REGGIE MILLER? ARE YOU SERIOUS???????

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 1:37 pm
    And if Bill Russell could handle Wilt, he could handle Shaq. Of course ‘handle’ is all relative, but he wouldnt have been shook. And Dream in his prime could have defended Shaq quite well also. Plus there was that 96 series where Dennis Rodman did a remarkable job on Shaq. The man was a beast and hes gonna get his, but this whole sentiment that no one could ever stop him just flys in the face of all facts and reason.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.19 at 1:38 pm
    I started this David better than Shaq stuff and like Jukai said based off of careers he is and that link. The thing about Shaq is that he will not be looked upon kindly in 15 to 20 years. People will say most dominate player ever for what 5 years. Shaq has played for 4 different teams, maybe a 5th this year. Shaq has been traded 2 times, with maybe a 3 coming this year and he talks trash about players and coaches after leavin only to suck up later. Shaq won 3 title with Kobe, but if Kobe wins one more title, Kobe would have 5, Shaq 4 for the most dominate player ever. Then history will say Shaq had Kobe, instead of Kobe had Shaq to win and plus Shaq never worked hard, so number 4 is high, Thats why I would rather have a consistent center like David Robinson over 13 years than a player who has 5 good years and gets complacent. I understand the love for him, but I feel Kareem, Wilt, Hakeem, Russell, Tim and can argue David had better consistent careers than him. PLaying for 5 different teams, in one decade will hurt his NBA legacy. NUFF SAID!!!

  • Khalid Salaam Posted: Jun.19 at 1:39 pm
    But Myles, intangibles matter. Otherwise how can you explain Chamberlain being so great and only having 2 rings? He was obviously super dominant in his day but it ultimately didnt matter

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 1:40 pm
    Bryan: C’mon man… Jerry West was scoring in the 20s back in the 70s. The 70s, where you would pretty much yank someone’s arm off and you wouldn’t be called for a foul (pulling an Eboy here, but the 70s were probably the toughest era in basketball in terms of what force you could use).
    West would be going to the line every twenty seconds in today’s league.
    Khalid: Jabbar PROBABLY would have trouble guarding Shaq, he has height but that’s it. Chamberlain would get pushed into the post but he’d block a helluva lot of Shaq’s shots simply because he could jump twice as high as Shaq could. Hell, a 35 year old Chamberlain can probably jump higher than Shaq in his prime, I mean that, for real.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 1:42 pm
    Myles Brown: eh… Russell himself admitted that whenever him and Wilt went one on one, Wilt scored a point. Russell never stopped Chamberlain one on one (words out of Russell’s own mouth).
    But the spirit was there.

  • Co Co Posted: Jun.19 at 1:43 pm
    So what’s the criteria for the list again? Also, how long were you all in that conference room?

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.19 at 1:43 pm
    What’s the deal with Jerry Lucas’s “memory games” products?

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 1:44 pm
    Khalid: that’s a bit unfair. Like West, there was at least two (I think three) times in Chamberlain’s career where, in a game seven match, their team lost by two or less points. I know they still lost, but if even one possession was different, Chamberlain would be a five time champion. It’s not like Pistol Pete, who never had any success in the playoffs. Chamberlain was there every time. Same with Shaq, of course, but I just think Chamberlain is more dominant.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 1:45 pm
    Co Co: Don’t even mention “criteria” in a SLAM list. I was almost banned for that!

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 1:46 pm
    Jukai it was actually 8.6 assists per game when he led the league.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 1:46 pm
    Khalid
    NBA.com says Wilt came in the league a 275 or so, but was up over 300 most of his career to deal with all the abuse he was taking.
    I think Wilt and Shaq had similar body types until Shaq just went off the deep end into fatness.
    Myles is making a good point. If you are UNSTOPPABLE your team cannot keep getting swept. You can lose, but youc an’t keep getting swept in your prime. And it’s not like Shaq was out their alone. He was getting SWEPT with Penny, Nick Van Exel, Kobe and Eddie Jones on his team.
    Those old Lakers teams had Eddie Jones, Nick, George Lynch, Elden Campbell, Derek Fisher and I think Rick Fox. And they were getting SWEPT by Utah and San Antonio.
    That’s wack to me.

  • Khalid Salaam Posted: Jun.19 at 1:48 pm
    the seed: robinson had punk tendencies for years and was called out by dennis rodman and mario elie amongst others. he didn’t even get to a finals until tim duncan arrived. stop with the nonsense, you are embarrassing yourself.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 1:48 pm
    Bryan: Oh, I’m sorry. 8.6! What’s Shaq’s career high in assists in an era where it was much easier to be credited for assists again?

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 1:49 pm
    Intangibles do matter, but speaking towards Shaqs dominance, I just think that being swept so many times needs to be taken into consideration. Everyone knows that in a seven game series with a great player, at least one game should be won by them taking over. Failing to do so that many times is a legitimate question as to just how dominant he was. If the numbers dont lie, then theres also legitimate questions as to how Shaq could ever be in front of someone as polished and accomlished as Cap. And I agree RE: Russ v. Wilt, which is why I said everything is relative.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 1:50 pm
    Agreed with Khalid on Robinson. He was great, but this shouldnt even be a discussion.

  • Khalid Salaam Posted: Jun.19 at 1:51 pm
    this whole thing is funny to me.

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 1:51 pm
    Shaq got 3.7 or 3.9 one year I think! Haha.

  • Co Co Posted: Jun.19 at 1:54 pm
    I really do want to know how many days it took you all to come up with this list.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 1:54 pm
    Its funny to me that Shaq got swept twice by Utah when they didnt even have a center. Who was it, Ostertag?

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 1:55 pm
    I can’t believe this is still on Shaq……Khalid has obviously stated the case succienctly but there’s no winning in this room.

  • Khalid Salaam Posted: Jun.19 at 1:55 pm
    allenp: spurs swept the lakers in 99. then the lakers returned the favor in ‘01

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 1:56 pm
    Maybe if Kobe could have hit a shot……………. (no, no, pay that no mind)

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 1:56 pm
    Agreed with Khalid and Myles on Robinson. He was great, but this shouldnt even be a discussion.
    I sort of agree with Khalid on the issue on the relevance of Shaq getting sweeped. Michael Jordan got swept, multiple times.
    ALSO something very entertaining, from the wiki entry on Jordan:
    Jordan was born in Brooklyn, New York, the son of Deloris (née Peoples), who worked in banking, and James R. Jordan, Sr., an equipment supervisor.[5] His family moved to Wilmington, North Carolina, when he was a toddler.[6][7] Jordan attended Emsley A. Laney High School in Wilmington, where he anchored his athletic career by playing baseball, football, and basketball. He tried out for the varsity basketball team during his sophomore year, but at 5′11″ (1.80 m), he was deemed too short to play at that level and was cut from the team. His taller friend, Harvest Leroy Smith, was the only sophomore to make the team.[8]
    Read the last part! I love Wikipedia.

  • Co Co Posted: Jun.19 at 1:59 pm
    Just because something is succinctly stated it doesn’t mean everyone has to agree with it.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 2:01 pm
    Kobe isnt ranked as the 4th best player of all time. Come off it.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 2:01 pm
    Jukai
    I remember Mike getting swept by the Celtics and the Bad Boy Pistons, one time each.
    Who else swept him?
    Getting swept by those two teams with the talent Mike had around him and given the point he was at in his career is not the same as what happened to Shaq.
    You missed it with that one.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 2:03 pm
    Michael Jordan got swept multiple times, but not six and he doesnt call himself the Most Dominant Ever. And he played defense.

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 2:03 pm
    Since you two are known Shaq haters, your opinion is skewed.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 2:03 pm
    Dammit, my comment disappeared.
    Jukai, I only remember Mike getting swept twice. By the Bird Celtics and Bad Boy Pistons, and that was early in his career when he basically had nothing around him.
    Shaq was getting swept when he had All-Stars riding with him.
    Also, I understand that Lakers swept the Spurs, but if I remember correctly, that was the year when Kobe averaged damn near 40 for the series.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 2:04 pm
    Eboy: WE’RE not conceding we’re wrong? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 2:05 pm
    Eboy
    I’m not a known Shaq hater. Myles is making great points and you are casting asperions cause you disagree with him.
    Shaq was stupid dominant, but he did not have a better career, nor was he a better player than Kareem or Wilt.
    Both players were EASILY as dominant as Shaq.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 2:06 pm
    Allenp: Swept is swept. I know you were making a more specific case than Myles was about Shaq being swept with the talent he had, but you’d think if Jordan was really the GOAT, then he’d at least win one of those games! We’re talking the one spot, not the four spot.
    I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think being swept really should count against Shaq THAT much.

  • TADOne Posted: Jun.19 at 2:14 pm
    I’m not reading all 290 comments. I just wanted to say I thoroughly enjoyed this list and each write up that was done.

  • Khalid Salaam Posted: Jun.19 at 2:15 pm
    so other than shaq, are there other placements that u guys have beef with? because, i’m almost done arguing about the MDE.

  • Eboy Posted: Jun.19 at 2:18 pm
    Allen, I wasn’t referencing you, but whatever……..

  • Chris Posted: Jun.19 at 2:19 pm
    Shaq 4th best player of all time? I don’t understand that at all. Otherwise a good list, nice to see Pippen in the top 30, I might even rank him higher.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 2:20 pm
    Khalid: I guess I’m interested in Pete Maravich’s exclusion and why Julias Erving was so low. I wont even argue back or anything, I’m just mostly interested.

  • Alias #1 Posted: Jun.19 at 2:20 pm
    Yeh, Khalid. WTF is Russell doing at #3? Cuz should be #2 easy. Winning 11 chips not enuf?? Oh and Isah too high and Barkley as well. Tiny not on list?

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 2:21 pm
    Dream, Duncan, Cap, Magic and Bird > Shaq. Zeke, Chuck, and Stockton > Malone. Pippen > Cousy? Clyde > AI. Nique > Bron? Ten other guys > Nash.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 2:26 pm
    I guess I agree with Myles outside of the Dominique Wilkins over Lebron thing (I mean, hasn’t Lebron already accomplished in six years more than Nique did his entire career? Farther in the playoffs, more acolades, etc.).
    I mean, this is creepy. Me and Myles are being generally agreeable. This never happens.

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 2:26 pm
    Barkley is better than malone and iverson is too low. Also jkidd is too high.

  • Russ Bengtson Posted: Jun.19 at 2:28 pm
    It’s perhaps worth noting a few things about the first time Michael Jordan’s team got swept out of the playoffs: a) it was a five-game series. b) it was against the 1986 Celtics, who went on to win the championship and is considered one of the best teams in NBA history. c) Jordan scored 49 points in Game One and 63 points in Game Two, averaging 43.7 points (on 50 percent shooting), 6.3 rebounds and 5.7 assists for the series. d) He’d missed all but 18 games of the regular season with a broken foot. e) He was 22. f) The second-leading scorer that year was Orlando Woolridge. g) regular-season records: Bulls, 30-42; Celtics, 67-15. Not excuses, just facts.

  • Alias #1 Posted: Jun.19 at 2:33 pm
    Russ in the building!

  • Russ Bengtson Posted: Jun.19 at 2:34 pm
    Typos R Us

  • slick ric Posted: Jun.19 at 2:34 pm
    This list is pretty bad, how can dennis rodman go on this list before pistol pete, reggie miller and others who were actual stars and not complimentary players and if lebron is on this list you have to put d-wade on this list as well,he might (emphasis on might) win several championships but he hasnt done anything yet.

  • Khalid Salaam Posted: Jun.19 at 2:35 pm
    whats maravich’s playoff win percentage again?….dr j’s placement was actually a pretty heated discussion. lang can tell u more….do we really need to explain bron over nique? he never got outta the 2nd round…..zeke is not too high. a real, for real talent with big balls. put it like this. zeke always had that funny/feminine voice and routinely kissed another man on the face and nobody EVER said he was soft. i. thomas was a killer….

  • Khalid Salaam Posted: Jun.19 at 2:36 pm
    russ dropping the smackdown..

  • Alias #1 Posted: Jun.19 at 2:40 pm
    And Barkley? ANd where is Tiny Nate? Common….I know y’all didnt agree with this did u ?

  • Alias #1 Posted: Jun.19 at 2:42 pm
    TIny absent why? Cousy too high alil bit.

  • Michael Posted: Jun.19 at 2:45 pm
    @Jukai I’m not saying drop West or Oscar to the 30’s. But when you have a player thats been just as statisticaly dominat in his Era (Kobe) as they were in their era’s and has won more I think that should put him ahead of them. I still have Jerry at 10 and Oscar at 11.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 2:47 pm
    I threw a ? in there because to me its a toss up. Bron has an MVP and a Finals appearance to his name where Nique doesnt, but if were going to reference intangibles, then Id like to think that Nique couldve held his against the Wizards, Nets and the Ghost of the Detroit Pistons. But he had to play in the same division as Jordan and face eitehr the Pistons or the Celtics every year in the playoffs with no help. Bron is a better all around player and more accomplished, but I still think theres something to be said for Niques legacy. But if it is what it is, I could understand and I aint mad. Though I would give you a harder time about AI > Nique.

  • Michael Posted: Jun.19 at 2:50 pm
    @ Myles. Duncan over Shaq? I’ve hear that agrument for way to long. I love Duncan, I Hate Shaq. But facts are facts. At their peaks, That Lakers DESTROYED the Spurs. People seem to forget that. The Spurs basically quit two years in a row.

  • j4zzm4n Posted: Jun.19 at 2:51 pm
    where’s the pistol,the flash and again why is kareem not higher?

  • Alias #1 Posted: Jun.19 at 2:52 pm
    Khalid and russ, out?

  • TADOne Posted: Jun.19 at 2:56 pm
    People were actually arguing Zeke’s placement? Dude was a stone cold player in his day.

  • Peter Posted: Jun.19 at 2:57 pm
    I love how people always bring up Robert Horry when the “ring criteria” comes up, without ever recognizing that everyone else in discussion was one of the top dogs on their team. Otherwise why don’t you bring up Steve Kerr (5 rings!), Ron Harper (5 rings). These guys all contributed to their teams success but the ring conversation should only apply to the top 2-3 players on the team. Hence it matters for Big O, J West…not so much for Bobby Horry.

  • Mike Posted: Jun.19 at 3:02 pm
    WTF is James Worthy?! Please tell me.

  • Pardeep Posted: Jun.19 at 3:03 pm
    Shaq is definitly 4 or 5 stop hating he played in a hard era and he revolutionized the league he is the most dominating player ever. I GOT A PROBLEM WITH AI at 39 and I GOT A PROBLEM WITH KOBE AT 12. BULLSH*T. I GOT A BIGGER PROBLEM WITH NASH AT 50. The politics. The polictics just piss me off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Nash is the most overrated player of this era.

  • Khalid Salaam Posted: Jun.19 at 3:04 pm
    im out ladies and gentlemen. hv a nice wknd and go buy the issue.

  • Young Chris MP3 Posted: Jun.19 at 3:08 pm
    Co-sign E’s 10:42 am comment. Diesel at 38 is still a factor. Diesel from 20-33 was insanely dominant. The argument is made that Shaq won against lesser Centers, but he beat Dikembe Mutombo TWICE in the Finals and Deke is considered one of the greatest of all time at his position. Rik Smits, Arvydas Sabonis, Vlade Divac, David Robinson/Tim Duncan. Shaq had competition in his championship Laker days. But what is also relevant is that Shaq totally changed the way a Center is supposed to play. When he says he is the “Last Real Center” it is only true because he single-handedly made them an endangered species. Look up Vince Thomas’ article written up a few months back about this very subject.

  • j4zzm4n Posted: Jun.19 at 3:09 pm
    most definitely going to buy this issue if i can find it.have to freaking drive for half an hour to the one store that occasionally has slam.seriously you dudes helped turn indifference,into interest then into absolute love for basketball.i thank you all.basketball is my passion now thank goodness for that.

  • Young Chris MP3 Posted: Jun.19 at 3:10 pm
    And thank you Khalid. Like Ben, I was waiting for you to come correct and set these kids straight.

  • tealish Posted: Jun.19 at 3:29 pm
    Iverson could be too low, not sure. But I get what he’s done in the last 3 years has, in the minds of most, subtracted from his legacy.
    @Bryan: Agreed on Jason Kidd. He gives you no scoring, at all.
    Other issues:
    - Shaq is obviously way too high
    - Hakeen is definitely underrated
    - Steve Nash………come on, SLAM.
    - Cousy: Not going to lie, never saw him play with the exception of a few tapes. And yes, numbers do not mean everything. But you can’t be 24th greatest with those numbers. No you cannot.
    - LeBron, his spot at 42 is not as egregious as Nash’s inclusion, but if the annointed one makes it — why not Wade?

  • Michael Posted: Jun.19 at 3:50 pm
    i am surprised more people havent complained about Kidd. 28 seems high for him.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 3:51 pm
    Young Chris
    WTH? Did you just call Mutombo one of the greatest ever at center?
    Nah homie, you need more people.
    Myle
    Nique might be better than AI. Maybe. But, you need to explain this Drexler fascination. Seriously, I watched Clyde, he was a beast. But, what he did well, Iverson did better. Period.
    And Cousy is living off hype. SUB 40 PERCENT SHOOTING FOR HIS CAREER!
    Dude regularly shot like 38 percent from the floor. Do y’all realize how many shots you have to take to average 18 points for your career with no three point line if you shoot that low of a percentage? Do you really?

  • B. Long Posted: Jun.19 at 4:10 pm
    I’m still waiting to hear Myles say that he thinks Jerry West would be a star in todays league…

  • TADOne Posted: Jun.19 at 4:13 pm
    Cousy shot lower percentage than AI.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 4:14 pm
    B. Long
    You seen tape of West?
    He was a killer shooter and had a knack for scoring.
    Are we arguing “Let’s transplant these old players to the present day with no changes” or are we saying “Would this same player have prospered if they came up during this era?”
    I firmly believe that with his athletic talent, West would have incorporated the advances in the modern game into his arsenal and been a killer.
    Why don’t you?

  • Izzo Posted: Jun.19 at 4:14 pm
    Allen:It’s not that bad considering that people were leading the League in FG% back in those days at 45-7&.So his percentage numbers would have been above average.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 4:15 pm
    Jerry West would have been a star in todays league and I dont see why the burden of proof is on me. If John Stockton could play now, why couldnt West?

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 4:19 pm
    Allenp: Glyde was a better rebounder, a far superior defender, and quite frankly, he could come on a team and be the second fiddle and not threaten to retire.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 4:24 pm
    I get people who played in the 40s and 50s not being able to dominate in today’s league… but I really don’t get people who played in the late 60s/70s, and dominated, I mean downright dominated.
    Oscar, West, Chamberlain, Barry, Thurmond, Gilmore, Baylor, these cats could come into the league and wreck 95% of everyone there.
    They weren’t unathletic, they had amazing fundamentals, and they played in a day where basketball was a lot rougher than the ‘tap-to-the-foul-line’ play of today’s league.
    Yes, they played in an age where the movements were slower and the shots were fired off quicker. So? They’d just speed up their pace and take more time to get a shot off. Would they all have the same stats? No, probably not. Rebounding numbers specifically would drop. Points? Maybe a bit, but I’d argue for some, they’d rise. Assists would skyrocket. They’d be getting to the line every five seconds with the punishment they’re used to taking. These guys would be all-first team and all-stars every year.
    Stop doubting them. It doesn’t make a lot of sense.

  • B. Long Posted: Jun.19 at 4:28 pm
    I’m not saying that the guy couldn’t play at all. I just don’t think that a shooting guard without that uber-athletic talent that most stars have at that position today would be as effective . Fundamentals and shooting matter, but I know a lot of fundamentally solid players and great shooters who aren’t playing in the L. The league has evolved.

  • B. Long Posted: Jun.19 at 4:33 pm
    And John Stockton is a horrible comparison. He was the perfect player, placed with the perfect coach in the perfect system for him to be effective. John has even admitted that had he not had an opportunity with Sloan he probably wouldn’t have had near the same success anywhere else. He’s the exception, rather than the rule.

  • Solomon Posted: Jun.19 at 4:33 pm
    ummm… much love to the Slam Squad. But isnt it a little redundant to say a player has won ONE Rookie of the Year Award? Its not like you get to call a mulligan on your Rookie season and play again. Again…much love to Slam.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.19 at 4:35 pm
    WHERE IN THE WORLD IS REGGIE MILLER AND PISTOL PETE?!?!?! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE.

  • Solomon Posted: Jun.19 at 4:36 pm
    actually…i think JKidd and Nash should switch spots.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 4:37 pm
    The league will never evolve beyond fundamentals. Name the top ten SG in the league and I bet you West is better than half of them.

  • B. Long Posted: Jun.19 at 4:38 pm
    Jkidd should be WAY lower and Nash shouldn’t be on the list at all.

  • j4zzm4n Posted: Jun.19 at 4:38 pm
    solomon….hell no to that decision

  • Solomon Posted: Jun.19 at 4:38 pm
    i think JKidd and Nash should switch places on the list.

  • TADOne Posted: Jun.19 at 4:43 pm
    Myles is smart.

  • Russ Bengtson Posted: Jun.19 at 4:45 pm
    Jerry West was a jumpshooter who scored 25,000 career points without the benefit of a three-point line. He played in nine NBA Finals, was named to 10 All-NBA First Teams, four All-NBA Defense First Teams, and finished in the top three for MVP five times. Despite being just 6-2, he averaged nearly six rebounds per game for his career. He also had a perfectionist mindset that makes Kobe look like Cherokee Parks. I can’t say with absolute 100 percent certainty that he would have been a star in this era, but it seems likely he would have been.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.19 at 4:45 pm
    Well, good job on making the list, I know its tough. But you gotta give credit where its due! And its due for Reggie and Pistol!! Also, Iverson should be top 3 AT LEAST (actually top 20). Kobe should be able to crack the top 10 by now. Dream should be top 10, too. Iceman should be top 30…

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 4:49 pm
    And claiming that Stockton is a horrible example because he was placed in the perfect situation to succeed does nothing to disprove that West couldnt have also been a star under the same circumstances.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 4:53 pm
    Jukai, two things.
    Clyde was first and foremost a scorer. Iverson was a better scorer. Clyde was better at rebounding, Iverson was better at passing.
    As far as co-existing, I would argue that Iverson was fine in Detroit until Curry started screwing up people’s minutes and people accused him of faking an injury.
    But, I understand the argument cats make for Drexler, I just disagree, but it’s all opinion.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 5:01 pm
    Allen Iverson shot over 45% three times in his entire career. Scoring more does not mean scoring better.

  • nbk Posted: Jun.19 at 5:11 pm
    Clyde’s legacy is so brutally jaded because of that d*mn guy from chicago. Drexler was better then Iverson, take his winning & dominating during the Magic/Bird era as evidence. AI was a great scorer, Drexler was a great scorer/defender and a much better winner.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 5:13 pm
    Actually, it’s four times Myles.
    So, was Elgin Baylor a better scorer than Drexler? His shooting percentage was about 42 percent.
    If I remember correctly, you were on the Gilbert Arenas bandwagon, isn’t he around 43 percent?
    I contend that Iverson was a better scorer than Drexler based on the creativity with which Iverson got his points and the pressure he put on defenses.
    Do you disagree?
    Besides, from what I can tell from the career stats, Drexler started off hot from the field, but his percentage plummeted during the last eight years of his career.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 5:16 pm
    Myles, stop making sense, it’s starting to get creepy at this point
    Allen, you gotta go back and look at Glyde if you think he was just a scorer. He was just a scorer in the same way Jordan was just a scorer.

  • Pic Posted: Jun.19 at 5:18 pm
    SLAM team, can we get a ranked top 10 coaches list too?? Wanna know your thoughts.

  • BK all Day Posted: Jun.19 at 5:21 pm
    That Bill Russell guy was pretty overrated. What did he ever win?

  • bbaby Posted: Jun.19 at 5:22 pm
    Dirk should have definitely been on this list. But when it’s all said and done, he’ll be on there for sure.

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 5:29 pm
    Everytime in his career that he a legit second option iverson hit 44% or better.

  • Myles Brown Posted: Jun.19 at 5:30 pm
    Four times is still nothing to be proud of and I think Clyde is better than Gil too. From my memory Clyde had at least three Finals appearances and won one of them, losing to superior Pistons and Bulls squads, but beating respectable competition on the way there. For a significant portion of his career he was considered Jordan lite and with good reason. I just dont think Allen Iverson has that kind of resume.

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 5:32 pm
    Ill take iverson over glide, gary payton and a few others in front of him and if really want some iverson facts click my name it’ll be a great read.

  • Michael Posted: Jun.19 at 5:38 pm
    Glide>>> Iverson. Drexler is one of the best all around players ever. He’s isn’t as great as a scorer as some say, but he was an excellent passer, defender, and rebounder. Iverson shot a lot.

  • nbk Posted: Jun.19 at 5:40 pm
    YOu people do realize that players must play both sides of the ball right? how can anyone really say allen iverson is better then drexler and know what they are talking about……oh wait they can’t

  • kipp Posted: Jun.19 at 5:48 pm
    This list is trash!!! #1 Tim Duncan top 10…ever? Stop! #2 Kobe over the Dream? Why? Before this ring he should’ve been compared to Scottie not Mike as the greatest No.2s in league history. He wins one as “the man” and every forgets his 4th quarter meltdowns…? Stop!!! The league has been watered down for years, and you guy keep pushing this OK basketball as some of the best ever. STOP! #3 Stockton & Malone don’t deserve separate slots. One doesn’t exit without the other. I can think of 10 PGs that will $h!t on Stockton… #4 I from the Chi, but (as mentioned above) Scottie severely overrated. He was a number two…And, he missed more crips than any other superstar in the history of the league. #5 KG way under-rated. He’s been pound-for-pound the best all-around player in the league, every year since 1999. Very few people held down that title for that long. #6 Mikan? REALLY? He’s Shawn Bradley, Manute Bol, just ahead of his time… #7 LeBron over Nique? NO! NO! NO! Why is he even on the list. Potential? Giving out potential bonuses? Lets not forget the ball was in his hand in those close 4th qtrs that went to the Magic. Turn-overs, bad footwork, errant passes…OK, he’s a prodigy…Physically, he’s a cross between Karl Malone & Vince Carter. He’s been a great passer since H.S. But, he still can’t hoop…in the professional sense. He is so much more physically gifted than everyone in the Mikan and Shaq sense, but he done nothing to deserve a spot on this list. #8 Thanx for giving Rodman his props. Still underrated. He could guard Tim Hardaway or Shaq with no help. Probably, the leagues all-time best athlete. #9 Steve Nash…smh…I don’t even think he makes the top 50 PGs list. What about Mark Jackson (had a rule changed)… Nash can’t guard one of the starting PGs in the league right now, let alone some all-time greats. He has the most un-deserving MVPs of in league history. And, he’s never been the best player on his on team…Hell, he’s never been the second best. He’s the leagues all-time most overrated player. #10 What about D-Wade…He has a ring…an Finals MVP no less. But, Lebron makes the list…Nash makes the list…this is some bull…

  • Ciolkstar Posted: Jun.19 at 6:14 pm
    Whoa, jerry west was 6′2″?! He was an absolute beast in his day, but he wouldn’t be a top 5 SG in today’s L. He probably wouldn’t even get a chance.

  • Russ Bengtson Posted: Jun.19 at 6:19 pm
    Yeah, because Allen Iverson never got a chance.

  • Ciolkstar Posted: Jun.19 at 6:20 pm
    Clyde > AI

  • Ciolkstar Posted: Jun.19 at 6:23 pm
    Was West even close to as atheletic as AI?

  • Ciolkstar Posted: Jun.19 at 6:26 pm
    Also, Here’s 5 SGs who would shred West:
    Kobe
    DWade
    Brandon Roy
    Ginobili
    Joe Johnson Largely beacuse he’s too small/slow to guard any of them And that doesn’t include the combo guards like Monta and AI, or the chronically injured TMac.

  • Allenp Posted: Jun.19 at 6:27 pm
    Maybe I just missed it when Clyde Drexler was a great defender.

  • Ciolkstar Posted: Jun.19 at 6:28 pm
    Myles
    I would argue that Drexler’s superior team success was a byproduct of the teams he had. He wasn’t carrying bums.
    Oh, and Jukai, he demanded a trade too.

  • nbk Posted: Jun.19 at 6:34 pm
    Oh but he did carry those teams colk. the only time iverson carried a team anywhere was when he was the only banana in a group of oranges. (in this analogy bananas play offense and oranges play defense). Every other time iverson has been on a team with other bananas (this is not supposed to be a gay joke) he has failed. While Drexler was successful in every role he ever played.

  • Ciolkstar Posted: Jun.19 at 6:39 pm
    That wasn’t me nbk, prolly allenP

  • nbk Posted: Jun.19 at 6:41 pm
    slam is one messed up website lately

  • B. Long Posted: Jun.19 at 6:44 pm
    Here’s the big question. Where the hell is Smush Parker?

  • rand33p Posted: Jun.19 at 6:46 pm
    pretty weak list… love lebron and hes gonna be an all-timer when hes done but already on this list? seriously wipe that skeet off your face man

  • Sigurður Einar Posted: Jun.19 at 6:46 pm
    Wow this is great. I love when some one puts down a list of the greats players and fans begin to trash it. (this is good for the game). My list(top 20).
    1. Magic
    2. Jordan
    3. Jabbar
    4. Wilt
    5. Russel
    6. Bird
    7. Kobe
    8. Shaq
    9. Oscar
    10.Olajuwon
    11. West
    12. Duncan
    13. Baylor
    14. M.Malone
    15. Pettit
    16. K.Malone
    17. J.Stockton
    18. C.Barkley
    19. Dr.J
    20. Bob Cousy

  • B. Long Posted: Jun.19 at 6:48 pm
    Oh! You guys thought I meant where is he on the list. LMFAO! I meant, like where is he in the world? Is he still alive?

  • rand33p Posted: Jun.19 at 6:48 pm
    …and kobe movin up

  • nbk Posted: Jun.19 at 6:49 pm
    @B - had to be 52 behind Bryant Reeves

  • A.G. Posted: Jun.19 at 7:31 pm
    I don’t know how Kobe’s not in the top ten. I think after Kobe gets the most points in Lakers history past Jerry West, he’ll be in the top ten. If he wins another championship, he should be past Shaq. That’s my opinion.

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.19 at 7:36 pm
    Who the hell here has seen west play? You guys are sick as hell . We ride on guys with 20 5 and 5 for a season all day , jerry west does something like 27 6 and 7 for his career and we’re debating if joe johnson and manu f*cking ginobli can take him? Gtfoh.

  • Tom Calarco Posted: Jun.19 at 7:40 pm
    Shaq over Bird and Magic … what are you guys smoking? Hakeem was better than Shaq. He proved it in the head-to-head. As good as Wilt and Russell were in their day, no way they were better than Bird and Magic. Only Michael is better, but that is because of his athleticism. All around Bird and Magic are the best there ever were.

  • Young Chris MP3 Posted: Jun.19 at 7:49 pm
    @AllenP: Correction, Shaq played Deke in ‘01, but Mutombo went to the Nets the year they played the Spurs in the Finals, not the Lakers, so Shaq went up against Mutombo only once in the Finals. However, to argue with you about Deke’s all-time status (since that IS what this is all about, right?), Dikembe Mutombo at 48 was still a solid player this past season for the Houston Rockets. He would come in and grab rebounds and block shots and score on the low block when he’d have the chance to. HOWEVER, in his first 11 seasons, Mutombo averaged 13.6 points, 13.5 rebounds, and a ridiculous 3.7 blocks with the Denver Nuggets, Atlanta Hawks, and Philadelphia 76ers. While never an offensive beast, he was good for 10-15 points a night, but his all-time contributions were made on the boards and on the defensive end of the floor. If Rodman is considered an all-time great for his rebounding and defense (and I’m not disputing that AT ALL. Rodman is my dude!), who can argue that Mutombo is not? The 5 rings make a difference, but Deke made the playoffs 7 out of his first 11 seasons, with suspect teams for the most part. Don’t hate because all you know him as is Yao’s backup.

  • BigShotBob Posted: Jun.19 at 7:52 pm
    I don’t know how you put Jason Kidd 11 spots ahead of Allen Iverson, and I sure as hell didn’t expect such a ranking from SLAM, given. AI was a cancer in Denver and Detroit, but the brilliance of the rest of his career seems to be forgotten here.

  • BigShotBob Posted: Jun.19 at 7:52 pm
    I don’t know how you put Jason Kidd 11 spots ahead of Allen Iverson, and I sure as hell didn’t expect such a ranking from SLAM. AI was a cancer in Denver and Detroit, but the brilliance of the rest of his career seems to be forgotten here.

  • Joe A Posted: Jun.19 at 7:53 pm
    I liked the list, even though I thought some players were ranked too high, and others way too low, I agree with just about everyone being on the list. My only problem, where was Bernard King?

  • andrej Posted: Jun.19 at 7:57 pm
    ppl are saying that wade should be there over nash but both should be there nash was a 2 times straight MVP anyone whose that has to be on the list

  • JBowls Posted: Jun.19 at 8:04 pm
    the fact that a hall of famer Bill Walton, the greatest passing center of all time, is not in this list. how many people would choose dennis rodman or allen iverson over him? Really?

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.19 at 8:17 pm
    @ BigShotBob: Iverson was FINE in Denver. He brought them into the 45’s - 50 win plateau and nudged them out of crappiness to become a playoff team. He brought back respectability to the Denver Nuggets.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.19 at 8:19 pm
    Co-sign Young Chris. DEKE should be top 50 if Dennis made it for his defense and rebounding.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.19 at 8:21 pm
    Co-sign Joe A
    WHERE WAS BERNARD?
    lol alright I’ll stop complaining… maybe.

  • ksaint Posted: Jun.19 at 8:55 pm
    u guyz did a great job

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 8:59 pm
    Teddy: Statistically, Denver did better when Iverson didn’t play. Just saying.
    Not saying it was AI’s fault, Carmello and Iverson just never got the hang of playing together. Neither one of them could not be ‘the man.’
    I think Iverson pretty much won ‘the man’ status in Denver over Carmello (for the sole fact that he’s better) and that’s why Carmello looked lost, and many times simply outplayed. Suddenly Iverson is going and we’re looking at Carmello saying “holy cow, was he this good all along?” No, but now that Iverson’s gone, he can be the man and be that good again.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 9:01 pm
    Also, Rodman was a better defender and rebounder than Mt Mutombo. Really. He could guard the two through the five (ask Shaq), while Deke really only could guard centers. Rodman outrebounded Mutombo for most of his career.
    Mutombo was a better scorer, but not really astronomically better. Neither were good passers at all.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.19 at 9:30 pm
    Yeah, but Deke deserves a mention I think. He’s at least top 75.
    You can’t argue with this though, Jukai: Pistol Pete should be on that darn list.

  • ThaRussian Posted: Jun.19 at 10:01 pm
    WOW this is disappointing, first of all kareem at 7?, he should be at number 2, lowest at 4, also these guys are easily on any top 50 but were absent in yours: Pete Maravich, Nate Archibald, Bill Walton, especially Pistol, WTF!!!!!!!!!, Pistol Pete is top 25 easily, I would also make a case for Sam JOnes, Lenny Wilkins, Bill Sharman, Jim Pollard, Hal Greer, Paul Arizin, Dave DeBusschere, Robert Parrish, Dave Bing, James Worthy, Bernard King, Bill Bradley, Dekembe Mutombo just to name a few, but c’mon Pistol and Tiny not on the list…u gotta b outta your mind…WOW

  • ThaRussian Posted: Jun.19 at 10:07 pm
    @Allenp, you mentioned Baylor shot 42%, Baylor was know for intentionally missing and getting his own rebound, it was part of his craft, his shooting percentage does him no justice

  • randeep Posted: Jun.19 at 10:35 pm
    this list = fail serious fail

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.19 at 10:40 pm
    Teddy: Yes, and yes. As explained to me several times, winning on the nba level was one of the highest criteria, and Pete had zero success in the playoffs, so he was left off. I don’t agree with it, but hey, no Gilbert Arenas over Allen iverson!
    I’m a little upset Bill Walton didn’t make it, but oh well

  • Lakers Champions!!! Posted: Jun.19 at 10:42 pm
    Kobe should be in the top 10 now
    and Shaq over Kareem is bs

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.19 at 10:59 pm
    Oh no - the AI-in-Denver debate arises anew. Obviously AI’s stint there wasn’t a HUGE success, but to deem it a failure (like many of us have) is too simplistic and lazily convenient. The AI/Melo Nuggets team actually came closest to beating the 2007 Spurs amongst their playoff opponents, putting up a much better fight than Lebron’s Cavs ever did. It’s too easy to say that AI sucked in Denver, but I thought he did fine. He tried his best, in his own way, to play the good citizen in Denver and to share the ball in his own way.

  • owen wilson Posted: Jun.19 at 11:16 pm
    throw away the stats and crap. Shaq will win another title and he will be #2 all time when its all said and done. The stilt was legit but his ring do not match diesels. russels offense was crap he only averaged 15 pts a game. and dont get to hyped with kareem, i mean seriously imagine if shaq went up against kareem at any point in there career. It would be all o’neal.

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.19 at 11:27 pm
    Wow. It’s a hell of a lot easier to bash someone else’s list than to come up with one of your own, publicize it and legitimize each pick in a few hundred words while hoping to do an NBA legend’s decade-ish-long career justice. I definitely agree with a good 90% of the picks on the list. Some of us won’t. But at LEAST have the decency or intelligence to state WHY you disagree with a pick, and be prepared to defend your view, instead of cojones-less-ly writing “SLAM SUCKS” or “EPIC FAIL” like a mindlessly twittering twat.

  • Todd Spehr Posted: Jun.19 at 11:33 pm
    Questioning whether Jerry West would be relevant in today’s NBA isn’t worth the words.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.20 at 12:06 am
    Reggie Miller deserves to be in the top 50.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.20 at 12:10 am
    Oh and @ Allenp: Bob Cousy shooting 30-40 something % while scoring 18 something per game his career (was it?) doesn’t mean he had to take THAT many shots– Free throws.

  • Hendu0520 Posted: Jun.20 at 1:10 am
    The Seed: You are crazy you wanna talk championships, Kareem was in his prime in the 70’s and was easily the best center. He only won 1 championship and that was when Oscar came to his team. Shaq might not have won a rebounding title because Rodman was grabbing 5 more boards than anyone else at the time. Look at the rebounding when the game changed in the mid 70’s all rebounding stats went down. Over their careers Shaq is a better rebounder adjusting Kareem’s early rebounding stats to the new era. By ‘83 when the Lakers started racking up Chips Kareem was 36yrs old and a shell of his former self. He only won a defensive poy award because of blocks, Kareem was really a weak and shaky one on one defender, he was a great help defender. Shaq is the 2nd best player of all time, he should be 2 on the list. 4 is way too low. Read “Who’s Better, Who’s Best” by Mr. Stats, Elliot Kalb he breaks down the top 50 and explains why Shaq is number 2. He actually makes an argument that he could be number 1. All you Shaq haters are just small people who have been bullied all their lives and despise Shaq because he was bigger than everyone else. Well if you know basketball then you would know he had tremendous footwork and eye hand coordination and a plethera of post moves. Ya his post moves weren’t Hakeem’s but they were more effective, look at the shooting % and efficiency. Shaq is easily the greatest Center of all time!

  • Chris Posted: Jun.20 at 1:12 am
    Ok, not bad.
    BUT……………
    Walton over Nate Thurmon, hands down.
    Maravich over Iverson (and most anyone else who ever tried to guard him..)
    Kareem and Chamberlain were both better offensively than Shaq. If they ever called a proper offensive foul, Shaq would not score at all. He just bulldozes a guy. He could never do that to Kareem or Wilt. Both were better by a country mile. Both were far superior athletes who could really move and jump. Shaq was floor bound by comparison.
    I think Rick Barry was way ahead of Barkley, cause he was such a great passer and made everyone around him better. Having played pro myself, and seen these guys up close, I feel confident on these things.

  • Hendu0520 Posted: Jun.20 at 1:16 am
    Mitch Richmond should be on this list, I don’t think I’ve heard that name mentioned. If you think Reggie should have made it then you can’t forget Mitch. Thank you for leaving off Bill Walton the most overrated player ever, he never even played a full season, sorry but we kill Yao and Shaq when they play 50 games, well Bill averaged about 30 games in the 70’s and his MVP year he didn’t even play 60 games. C’mon Bill Walton ha.

  • Hendu0520 Posted: Jun.20 at 1:23 am
    Hakeem is not better than Shaq, when they went head to head Shaq was in his third year and he actually held his own for being young, inexperienced and overwhelmed when his team disapeared. If Nick Anderson makes 1 free throw that series is a whole different ball game. I know stats aren’t everything but Stats wise Shaq outplayed Hakeem in that series check it out, he got Hakeem in every category except stls. Hakeem came up big but Shaq actually was more consistent throughout the series. Imagine if they faced in Shaq’s prime, it wouldn’t have been close.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.20 at 3:26 am
    Joel O: While I know you did not direct that comment to me, I did make my own list a few links back, and I did ask people to question it.

  • Yassi Posted: Jun.20 at 4:27 am
    theres only 2 probs i have with the list:
    jason kidd 28? not in a million years. I doubt he would make my top 50 at all. Shaq can not be that high. His seeding is bad. For both things I would really like to know how that went down in the slam rooms. I just dont see it happening and would sure as hell like to know how….

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.20 at 5:02 am
    Yassi: First off, Jason Kidd’s placement is fine. He could arguably be a bit higher, but I think people really forget how GOOD Jason Kidd was during his prime. Like, inconceivably good. Kidd lost a lot of speed and driving ability later in his career, but that dude was a real threat to do anything.
    The Shaq thing is iffy. It seems the majority of writers and interns thought Shaq should be 7-12, but the editors (guys who make final decisions) thought Shaq was GOAT v2. So, there ya go.

  • BogMog Posted: Jun.20 at 5:26 am
    “A rare talent who—due in part to his youth training as a soccer player in his native Nigeria—possessed superb footwork” Yeah, I used to play soccer too. really helps the footwork NOT!!! How do you figure? This is the most stupid thought Slam has, you said it about steve nash too, but there is no connection! Really, no connection!

  • Sam Z Posted: Jun.20 at 6:02 am
    HOW THE $#%* is TIm DUncan better than larry bird he only won 2mvps and 4 rings while larry legend had 3 mvps…in a row…3 rings….and way more game

  • Tariq Al Haydar Posted: Jun.20 at 6:52 am
    Magic > Oscar Triple Double or no

  • larrylegend Posted: Jun.20 at 7:07 am
    thanks jukai about kidd. he should have won mvp in 2002! he was a francise-turnaround-player in dal,pho&nj. not to mention his cali-days.

  • larrylegend Posted: Jun.20 at 7:09 am
    if deke is in consideration, parish has to be in the list….where the f#ck he is…

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 7:14 am
    I’m not an expert, but it seems to me that being able to play all 5 positions; replacing Kareem as a rookie and posting 42,15,7 as a CENTER, as a ROOKIE; winning FIVE rings; and being the best PG in transition EVER, hands down, trumps averaging a triple double for an entire season, amazing as that is, and winning ONE ring. Ergo:
    Magic > Oscar.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 7:16 am
    Also, KG > Kidd

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.20 at 11:25 am
    @Jukai: Of course, exactly that.

  • Sigurður Einar Posted: Jun.20 at 11:28 am
    5. best C
    1.Jabbar
    2. Wilt
    3. Russel
    4. Shaq
    5. Olajuwon I know Russel won 11 Rings but he did most of it with 3-5 HOF and just 8 teams in the NBA.
    So mabye Shaq should be over Russel but not over Wilt and Jabbar.

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.20 at 11:34 am
    With legends like Reggie and Bill Walton and the like not even making this already-very-even-handed list, it makes you wonder who in today’s NBA (outside of Lebron, Kobe, Kidd, Duncan, KG and the like) will one day be great enough to unquestionably be on there. The only names, really, that come to mind are Wade and CP. Maybe PP, if he wins another title or two?

  • Yassi Posted: Jun.20 at 11:54 am
    ??? @Joel: since when is Bill Walton a legend?

  • Orlando Green Posted: Jun.20 at 11:57 am
    MY TOP 10: MJ
    Russell
    Wilt
    Oscar
    Shaq
    Bird
    Kareem
    Magic
    Kobe
    Duncan TOP 10 in 10 years: MJ
    Kobe (bring on the haters)
    Russell
    Wilt
    Oscar
    Shaq
    Lebron
    Bird
    Kareem
    Magic

  • randeep Posted: Jun.20 at 12:00 pm
    Darko > this list… kidding… but kobe should be higher (but i understand this was before the 4th chip).. and shaq is too high, love him but he is not better than magic nooooo wayyyyy

  • Michael Posted: Jun.20 at 12:01 pm
    oscar over magic is the worst thing on this list. That is Slam to a tee, hype and numbers over winning, no wonder AI has been on the cover so many times.

  • Orlando Green Posted: Jun.20 at 12:02 pm
    Reggie Miller should be on this list.
    KG is listed WAYYYY TO LOW…what the hell…
    AI should be no higher than 50

  • [...] Rondo Since the greatest ever debate over Bill Russell/Michael Jordan has risen up recently, this seems appropriate. MJ is 1st. Russell is 3rd. Overall, its a great [...]

  • Orlando Green Posted: Jun.20 at 12:06 pm
    Where is Kwame Brown?

  • rick_ross55 Posted: Jun.20 at 12:29 pm
    1.kareem
    2. MJ
    3.Kobe
    4.magic
    5.russel
    6.bird
    7.russel
    8. wilt the stilt
    9.the logo
    10.duncan

  • Housekeeping, Some Lakers, Muggsy Posted: Jun.20 at 12:37 pm
    [...] where does Kobe rank on the All-Time list now? Slam just “remixed” the Top 50 of All Time and has him at #12 (although they did it prior to the [...]

  • rick_ross55 Posted: Jun.20 at 1:01 pm
    1.kareem leads all time scorers list and 6 rings to match
    2. MJ took elgin baylors and dr J’s moves and perfected them to win 6 rings number 3 all time scorer
    3.Kobe has 4 rings with at least 6 good year sin him left he also only needs to average 26 points a game for the next 6 years to pass kareem not including the playoffs
    4.magic 5 rings best point guard of all time
    5.russel best defensive/rebounding center ever 11 rings need i say more
    6.bird probally the best player ever in the NBA that was as athletic as your everyday mail man
    sharp shooter tough defense and court vision
    7.olajuwon best center of his time dominated the most dominat force shaquile oneal
    8. wilt the stilt suffers from the same aliment that shaq does in my eyes he was just bigger than everybody not actually better i pu thimon the list in said of shaq because both were dominant but wilt took the cake averaging 50 point a game in one season
    9.duncan 4 rings 3 time mvp one should of went to ginobli but whos counting 24 and 12 guy his whole career best fundamental player ever
    10.oscar robertson need i say more

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 1:18 pm
    I don’t understand why some people are mad that Jason Kidd is on this list. Where else do you expect to find him? Maxim? The guy is one of the best PGs ever, hands down. He turned around one of the sorriest franchises in the NBA and took them to the Finals twice. The guy’s a walking triple double. Great vision, great defense. MAYBE he should have gotten one of Duncan’s MVPs. OK, so he’s not Magic, but yeah, Top 30 all-time. So what’s the problem? I really don’t get it.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 1:21 pm
    Joel, Paul Pierce will NEVER be on here. He’s already 31.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 1:23 pm
    Joel: I think Kevin Durant could be on this list in a decade plus. MAYBE.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 1:28 pm
    Although Durant would be a long shot, right?

  • D.Excel19 Posted: Jun.20 at 1:31 pm
    Steve Nash, are you serious? Stockton deserves to be up there, but not that high. The refs show favoritism and it was and sometime still is racially motivated. Iverson? I love his game, but the kid is a walking disaster. His personality just could not cut it. Shaq is my favorite but in all fairness his ranked too high. I know his presence alone strikes fear but certain guys are more decorated.

  • J-Dolo Posted: Jun.20 at 1:41 pm
    Kobe at 12, and this mag was finished b4 he got his 4th ring…is it safe to say that he pushed himself into the 10 ten? I think so. Pippen should be higher. The year after MJ retired the first time, they won only two games LESS than when MJ was there (check nba.com). Pippen was WAYY better than people give him credit for, and was probably just AS talented as Jordan was, and locked down the team’s best perimeter player, AND orchestrated the break so Jordan can take his shots. Pippen should be higher. No Pippen on those Bulls teams, no rings.

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.20 at 1:48 pm
    @Tariq: Agreed on KD. He just needs the platform, I think. Whether OKC can be that platform is another matter… Regarding PP, what if the Celtics win another 2 titles before they’re done? As a key part of a great, deep Celtics team, wouldn’t that make him just as deserving as say, McHale?

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.20 at 1:51 pm
    @Yassi: Hmm. Maybe he isn’t top 50, but he’s a legend in my book. Or maybe my opinion is being coloured by his… entertaining commentary. “Stroke it, big man!”

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 2:01 pm
    Joel:
    If I’m going to talk about something like this, I should profess my ignorance first. I never watched the 80s Celtics play. I don’t know how great McHale was. I just read about him. From what I know, he was virtually unstoppable in the post and he was a helluva defensive player. Also, he had goofy-looking arms, which are always a plus. Now, as for Paul Pierce, who is about to turn 32, if he isn’t on this list yet, a couple of titles could squeeze him in, sure, I guess. But you mentioned him with Wade and CP3…THOSE guys are on a collision course with the Top 50.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 2:04 pm
    Although, I don’t think rings are as important as I thought they were, evidently.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 2:10 pm
    Because, I mean, yeah, Pierce is a great player, sure. No doubt about that. But… how should I say this… He just struck me as the kind of guy who rounded out the all-star team. Does that make sense? If they had decided in 1998 to cut the all-star teams to 10 players instead of 12, Paul Pierce would have probably made like 1 all-star team.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 2:11 pm
    I guess I’m saying Pierce is a great player, but there are plenty of other, even greater players, out there. But I will say this: Pierce >>>>> Nash.

  • Dagger Posted: Jun.20 at 2:15 pm
    My thoughts: Bird is way too low. You really want to say the Celtics best player in the 80s was worse than two players on the Lakers? And how is Shaq better than Bird? Honestly, Shaq was a beast except he had a huge weakness in the clutch because he can’t shoot freethrows. He’s also a far worse team player than Bird, for example. In addition, I would caution using statistics from a period when defenses were far less sophisticated and the game was much, much more up-tempo. As such I’d never put Oscar ahead of Magic. I think KG is far too low . . . he should definitely be top-20 . . . and I’d switch Kobe with West (how, exactly, was West better?). It feels a little odd not to see someone like Pierce or even Dirk and Tmac in there, while Nash and Kidd are represented. Lebron at #42 is a bit weird as well. Best player in the game for a few years now, but only 42? Then again, in some ways it seems overly high considering he’s only 42. I respect the attempt to get it right, though.

  • Dagger Posted: Jun.20 at 2:17 pm
    sorry, considering he’s only *24.

  • Kadavour Posted: Jun.20 at 2:32 pm
    Prorate anyone’s stats from today’s NBA to that 1959-67 fiasco they call NBA stat keeping and you can add about 4-5 rebounds and assists to that person’s numbers. This was a time when 120 possessions and 70 rebounds in an 8-9 team league was the norm. All those numbers from that time are misleading. Wilt is about the only dude from that time who could really transcend eras. His athletic feats are quantifiable in today’s age and as such we could make informed inferences about how his athleticism could transfer in today’s game: 6′6 high jump, he ran the 440yds in 49 secs! That’s basically a 4.45 40 in the nfl combine. 6 Wide Receivers in this year’s combine posted faster times. In the waning years of his athleticism he was blocking Kareem’s sky hook. I think we should be careful how we compare ppl’s accomplishments; some of them should be relegated to their time, not versus history, because historically very few players could ball in today’s game. Jerry West certainly isn’t one of those dudes. I mean, prorate Magic’s stats to that era of 120 possessions, he would have averaged a triple double.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 2:35 pm
    Here is a list of players I think should have been ahead of Nashty Nash, his two MVPs notwithstanding:
    Reggie Miller,
    Nate Archibald,
    James Worthy,
    Dwyane Wade,
    Robert Parish,
    Pistol Pete Just off the top of my head.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 2:47 pm
    Kadavour,
    I don’t know if that’s true when it comes to points and rebounds, but it certainly ISN’T true when it comes to assists. Oscar had to pass DIRECTLY to the guy shooting, who had to NOT take a dribble but IMMEDIATELY take a shot without dribbling or some weird sh*t like that. Point being, it was MUCH tougher to get credited for an assist back then.

  • Kadavour Posted: Jun.20 at 3:05 pm
    i’m not discrediting his assists, but assists and shot attempts are directly related, so more shot attempts equal more assists. I don’t have any numbers than can verify how those assists would translate (the equation shouldn’t be too tough to finagle though: a simple graph of shot attempts, average shot percentages and assists should do it) , so i can understand how one would disagree. The only problem would be figuring out shot attempts (an unrecorded stat at that time), but that can be solved mathematically.

  • Kadavour Posted: Jun.20 at 3:15 pm
    I disagree with putting James Worthy and Robert Parish on the top 50. James got all his success with Magic and Cap, did jack sh-t without them, and the same goes for Parish. Played left bench for his fourth chip and everything in between he owed to Birdie and the White Salamander. If it came down to it though, I would put Parish before James because of his longevity, props should be given for that. But I agree with most, it is utter blasphemy that the Pistol isn’t on this list.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 3:23 pm
    yeah, but the way an assist was credited was different. More shot attempts do not necessarily equal more assists. They would if you awarded assists in the same way, but BEFORE, they gave you an assist ONLY if the player DIDN’T take a dribble. So if Oscar found an open teammate, but the teammate decided to take ONE dribble before shooting, Oscar would NOT get an assist. Hence, more shot attempts MAY result in more assists, but not necessarily.Because NOW, it is MUCH easier for players to accumulate assists, even with fewer shot attempts. You follow?

  • Kostas Posted: Jun.20 at 3:25 pm
    Kadavour’s point is well made: Oscar’s triple doubles are definetely statistically skewed, and Magic’s and Kidd’s aren’t given the respect they deserve. Oscar ist Top-10 mainly because of the respect - better yet, awe - of his peers: ask any 60s player and he’ll tell you he’s the best he played against. Btw, the same goes for Kareem in the 70s, and it’s a disgrace he’s ranked so low. One point no-one mentions: I woud never ever place Wilt ahead of Russell, for two reasons: Wilt choked way too often, and his stats went way down when facing Russ. In one-on-one matchups in his 40-50ppg seasons, he only scored 28ppg against the Celtics. Russell owned him, and that has to count.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 3:25 pm
    Parish and Worthy deserve it a hell of lot more than Nash, that’s for sure. And what about Spencer Haywood?

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 3:29 pm
    And Connie Hawkins.

  • Eric Woodyard Posted: Jun.20 at 3:35 pm
    Kobe is def in the top 10 with the 4th ring!! Elgin and West shouldnt be ahead of him…he’s top 5 in my opinion!!

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 3:39 pm
    Wait, wait… guys, hold the phone for a second… I don’t think you’re appreciating how difficult it was for the guy to get that many assists:
    To say that Oscar’s triple-double is skewed is unfair. At least the assists part. Because he had to find an open teammate, and then THE BALL COULDN’T TOUCH THE FLOOR FOR IT TO COUNT AS AN ASSIST. Do you realize how hard it is to AVERAGE a triple-double in those circumstances? In fact, I retract what I said earlier: Oscar > Magic.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 3:49 pm
    Oh, and one more thing when you talk about these numbers being “skewed”: They didn’t have a three-point shot back then.

  • Kadavour Posted: Jun.20 at 4:08 pm
    I already said i’m not discrediting his assists as a great feat, but you must concede more shot attempts mean more chances for assists. I mean, Big O had 41 Triple Doubles the year he averaged a triple double. The guy behind him with the second most in that year was Wilt with 31 and Wilt holds the record for most consecutive triple doubles at 9. Kinda puts that Trip Doub stuff in perspective huh?

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.20 at 4:11 pm
    Umm, no it doesn’t. Wilt was a beast. So him getting triple doubles doesn’t surprise me at all. Co-sign Tariq.
    Oh and to the person above who said Wilt “only” averaged 28 ppg against BILL FREAKIN RUSSELL, that is still a top 2 all time feat right there.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.20 at 4:17 pm
    Anyways, Reggie Miller and Pistol SHOULD HAVE BEEN HERE. Its not even a question.
    Pistol Pete > Jason Kidd.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 4:22 pm
    Kadavour, friend, you’re missing the point. I do NOT concede that more shot attempts mean more chances for assists. Why? Simple.
    Let’s say that the league suddenly said it only credits points to shots scored from 30 feet. Would more shot attempts mean more chances for points? NO, because it would freakin HARDER TO SCORE. Similarly, it WAS HARDER TO GET CREDITED FOR AN ASSIST back then. Now, Nash passes it to Am’a'r’e, who dribbles it a couple of times and then goes up and dunks it, and Nash gets an assist. If Oscar does the same thing back in the day, he doesn’t get an assist. It would be like the other guy “creating his own shot” or something. The ball COULD NOT TOUCH THE FLOOR for it to count as an assist. So more shot attempts DO translate to more points, sure. But not to more assists.

  • Michael Posted: Jun.20 at 4:25 pm
    Oh S**T I forgot all about freaking Tiny Archibald, and Pistol Pete.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 4:27 pm
    And Kobe isn’t Top 5 people, let’s get real.

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.20 at 4:28 pm
    @Tariq: I saw the ’80s Celtics play on TV when I was five or so, and what I know of them is heavily coloured by a ridiculously huge fan of a father. PP is a heck of a long shot, I have to admit.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 4:30 pm
    Seriously, Michael, how can you lead the league in scoring AND assists AND win a ring and then NOT be better than Nash? I mean, I could make a very, very good argument for Chauncey Billups being ahead of Steve Nash, nevermind Nate freaking Archibald. This is SLAM’s equivalent of benching Skip in the Finals.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 4:33 pm
    I could make an argument for Nate Archibald being better than Clyde Frazier. That Nate is better than Nash isn’t even an argument, it is FACT.

  • Reflex Posted: Jun.20 at 4:34 pm
    Dwwayne Wade>>>>>>Chris Paul>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Steve Nash

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 4:35 pm
    (Admittedly, the argument for Tiny being better than Frazier wouldn’t be a very good one, but still…)

  • b Posted: Jun.20 at 4:35 pm
    no PISTOL PETE REALLY????????????????

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 4:37 pm
    Thing is, when you look at Nash, the ONLY thing there is the MVPs. If you look at his career without those two highly-controversial MVPs, there’s nothing that merits a Top 50 spot. Or a Top 60 spot.

  • Reflex Posted: Jun.20 at 4:38 pm
    In addition, Reggie Miller>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Steve Nash

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.20 at 4:40 pm
    Pearl Monroe only 47 is kind of a joke, sorry guys but the man CHANGED basketball. The same goes for Iceman. Oh and Jerry West kicks @ss. Of course he’s top 10.

  • Reflex Posted: Jun.20 at 4:41 pm
    In summary I’m mad that Steve Nash is on this list when those 2 aren’t, no one who knows an inch of basketball would ever pick Nash over Wade or CP3, I can’t for the life of me understand why he’s on here

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.20 at 4:41 pm
    WALT CLYDE FRAZIER >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JASON KIDD

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 4:42 pm
    Joe Dumars > Steve Nash Finals MVP + Defense > 2 Controversial MVPs + No Defense

  • Reflex Posted: Jun.20 at 4:43 pm
    Kobe should be top 10 as well, even before the 4th ring which as I underdstood would put his ranking in the top 10 beyond reasonable doubt, guess I understood wrongly

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.20 at 4:45 pm
    Reflex: CP3 shouldn’t be on here. He’s only been playing at a high level for TWO years, and already you want to rank him among the Top 50 of ALL TIME? Plus, he got bounced in the first round of the playoffs this season while averaging a Nash-like 16 and 10 against Denver. I’m sure he’ll be here in a few years though.

  • Reflex Posted: Jun.20 at 4:50 pm
    I’m not saying Chris Paul should be on here, but for me he’s comfortably the best PG in the league and miles better than Steve Nash was in his prime, therefore, I put him ahead of NAsh all time, he still managed to get his bunch of scrubs to the playoffs, Nash didn’t, but the main ommission for me is DWade, dude should be on this list before Nash & LeBron (at least until he wins his chip), I can’t understand how he got snubbed, he’s got the numbers, the championship, finals mvp, plays on th eboth ends, how can anyone justify putting Nas ahead of him??

  • BETCATS Posted: Jun.20 at 5:20 pm
    Russel over Chamberlin, Duncan over Shaq. David Thompson over Walt Belemany and Jerry Lucas. (you put Gervin and Dr.J up here, not including Thompson is a slap in the face to the history of the ABA) Other than that, this list is 100% correct.

  • rick_ross55 Posted: Jun.20 at 5:26 pm
    rick_ross55 Posted: Jun.20 at 1:01 pm
    1.kareem leads all time scorers list and 6 rings to match
    2. MJ took elgin baylors and dr J’s moves and perfected them to win 6 rings number 3 all time scorer
    3.Kobe has 4 rings with at least 6 good year sin him left he also only needs to average 26 points a game for the next 6 years to pass kareem not including the playoffs
    4.magic 5 rings best point guard of all time
    5.russel best defensive/rebounding center ever 11 rings need i say more
    6.bird probally the best player ever in the NBA that was as athletic as your everyday mail man
    sharp shooter tough defense and court vision
    7.olajuwon best center of his time dominated the most dominat force shaquile oneal
    8. wilt the stilt suffers from the same aliment that shaq does in my eyes he was just bigger than everybody not actually better i pu thimon the list in said of shaq because both were dominant but wilt took the cake averaging 50 point a game in one season
    9.duncan 4 rings 3 time mvp one should of went to ginobli but whos counting 24 and 12 guy his whole career best fundamental player ever
    10.oscar robertson need i say more steve nash shouldnt be in there if it wasnt for the lying chickin colorado kobewould have 3 mvps instead of one
    and chris paul isnt even close he has to do what hes been doing for the next ten years to be thought of so does james longevity equals greatness not just being athletic

  • g Posted: Jun.20 at 6:14 pm
    wtf no wade??? but lebron nd nash is on there? wow

  • BETCATS Posted: Jun.20 at 7:59 pm
    ●▬▬▬▬▬๑۩۩๑▬▬▬▬▬▬●
    I belive rick_ross55 to be a extreme butt-sexing male, judging by his name and his thinking Kobe is #3 overall NOW. Duncan>>>Kobe

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.20 at 8:14 pm
    I don’t understand the criteria because gervin scored but played no d and won nothing so why him over pistol or bernard king? And I agree with Betcats about walt bellamy his 20.1 and 13.7 came in an era where big men of his caliber were grabbing 16-20 nightly his rookie year of 31 and 19 really should have been a precursor as opposed to his best season for him to be included in this list. And tariq nashes numbers of 17 and 9 since he because a full timer in the league are nothing to sneeze at especially when you factor in shooting percentages and win percentages with him on the floor. Just saying.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.20 at 8:44 pm
    Bryan: Are you seriously questioning whether or not Iceman should be in the top 50? That’s just not right…
    Yeah, King AND Pistol deserve to be on this list obviously. But so does Iceman. I don’t know of ANYONE HERE who thinks otherwise.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.20 at 8:45 pm
    Ummm BETCATS, Wilt over Bill is correct.

  • Logan Posted: Jun.20 at 8:49 pm
    Iverson and Payton over Clyde the Glide?

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.20 at 8:53 pm
    I don’t understand how Kareem can be behind Shaq on your top 50, SLAM. Listen, Kareem was better than Shaq in almost EVERY WAY. You want rings? You want Finals MVP’s? You want regular season MVP’s? You want ACTUAL SKILL? You want leadership and not unbearable ego? You want speed? You want most all time POINTS? You want major rebounds? You want defense? Then you should put Kareem AHEAD of Shaq. There’s just no way to justify Shaquille O’Neal being ahead of Kareem. The only and I mean ONLY advantage Shaq had over Kareem was strength. That’s it.
    Kareem should be top 5, not Shaq.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.20 at 8:54 pm
    I forgot to mention: You want Kung Fu? Take Kareem.

  • Larry Posted: Jun.20 at 8:57 pm
    What? No love for Mark Acres?
    “I Am Shocked!! Shocked!!”

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.20 at 9:15 pm
    THE REAL TOP 10, Slam take Notice
    MJ
    Russell
    Kareem
    Wilt
    Magic
    Bird
    Kobe- has 5 to 7 years to add one more Chip, if he adds two more, you put Kobe over Bird & Magic
    Duncan- Malone is better to me-just no Chips
    Shaq- One MVP, career is over, chasing Chips, traded 2 times maybe 3 in one decade, played for 4 teams, maybe 5 in one decade if traded again. The most dominate player is getting traded like he is Popeye Jones, not number 4.
    Oscar- has one Chip

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.20 at 9:21 pm
    Matter of fact in looking at my own list, Kobe gets one more chip he is over Bird, two more chips he is over Magic.

  • Celts Fan Posted: Jun.20 at 9:51 pm
    Some of you guys are just dumb. Kobe top 5? Kobe over Shaq (Kobe was clearly the #2 on those teams,) and Nash’s first MVP shoulda gone to Shaq, but I think he earned #2. If you make Boris Diaw into a $9M per player while losing Amare for the year, you deserve it (sorry, but dropping 40 on a barely-playoff game while feuding with teammates doesn’t make you MVP, just a talented douche.) Though yes, Nash does not deserve top 50, give it to Reggie. Also, JKidd is ok where he’s at. Dude was a GREAT PG. Here’s the list:
    1 MJ
    2 Magic
    3 Wilt
    4 Russell
    5 Kareem (really, you can argue 3-5 any order, this is just how I put it)
    6 Oscar
    7 Shaq
    8 Duncan
    9 Bird
    10 Kobe (For the record, I’d put West and Dream next)

  • Celts Fan Posted: Jun.20 at 9:58 pm
    @The Seed If you think Kobe’s got 5-7 more years to win chips, you’re dumber than I thought. Dudes gonna start breaking down quickly. He’s got 2-3 more years left in his window to win titles. There are a TON of miles on those tires for a 30 year old

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.20 at 10:04 pm
    Celts Fan, we are not talking about Fat Paul Pierce, He Needs Jesus Ray Allen and Big Talker Kevin Garnett. They will break down before Kobe-HE TRAINS HARDER, Don’t break a leg KG!!

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.20 at 10:09 pm
    Celts Fan, My list makes more since, Bandwagon Dude, is this better for you Greenie.
    THE REAL TOP 10
    MJ
    Russell
    Kareem
    Wilt
    Magic
    Bird
    Kobe- has 2 to 4 years to add one more Chip, if he adds one more over Bird, two more over Magic, they had more help than Kobe will have with more rings.
    Duncan- Malone is better to me-just no Chips
    Shaq- One MVP, career is over, chasing Chips, traded 2 times maybe 3 in one decade, played for 4 teams, maybe 5 in one decade if traded again. The most dominate player is getting traded like he is Popeye Jones, not number 4.
    Oscar- has one Chip

  • Celts Fan Posted: Jun.20 at 10:20 pm
    Shaq was the better player on those Lakers teams. The argument that Kobe’s better all time just proves your stupidity. Also, Duncan has 2 MVPs and was the best player on 4 title teams (atleast 3. Argue Robinsom 99 if you want) and All NBA the first decade of his career. Compare those 2 to Kobe who was the 2nd guy on those Shaq title teams and only has 1 MVP and it just doesn’t make sense.

  • c- Dub Posted: Jun.20 at 10:20 pm
    Dominique wilkins should be a lot higher on this list. He had to battle the best players in the game of b-ball everynight. He held his own against every star in the league in the 80’s and 90’s. He is being penalized for the teams that he was on as well as management. When he finally got a good team, they traded him to the clippers!!! Worst trade in b-ball. And Lebron James should be higher. He will be next year. They will surround him with talent like they did MJ.

  • Celts Fan Posted: Jun.20 at 10:30 pm
    And you can’t talk about Shaq being traded now, in his late 30s and act like its the same as if he got dealt in his prime (and remember whose arrogance and douchebaggery forced him out.) Kobe’s een a TERRIBLE teammate for almost a decade (documented clearly in Phil Jackson’s book and in parts iin Paul Shirley’s) that can’t be ignored just cuz he hasn’t been a dbag in a few years and uses his family as a prop after every game. Also, Malone came up small in big moments all the damn time. Duncan’s clutch and was a much better defender. That statement just proves your homerism is getting in the way of rational thought and that you know NOTHING about basketball.

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.20 at 10:50 pm
    Karl lost the ball to MJ a possession before The Shot.

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.20 at 10:51 pm
    The LAST Shot I mean, not the equally clutch but less meaningful Cavs one.

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.20 at 10:51 pm
    Celts Fan, Shaq has 1MVP, come on, also I can compare Kobe with Shaq, Shaq had Kobe to close out games, because he couldn’t stay on the floor, late in games, because of free throw shooting, you don’t remember that,Right, Also Shaq got traded from Lakers, because he was out of shape and Jerry Buss was tired of him, making statements like I will get better on company time, Right, don’t remember that and Shaq lucked into his 4th title, because Refs gave Dwade some questionable calls, Right, don’t remember that, Kobe won a title with lesser talent, Right, Gasol and Odom are Hall of Famers. Magic and Bird played with at least 2 HoFamers for all their titles, Also if you think Shaq won all the titles by himself you are just stupid, like believeing that PP will get in shape. You don’t have to give Kobe credit, you will see, when he wins one more without Shaq, and Shaq wears out his welcome Greenie, he did it in LA, Miami, PHX and will do it where ever the unstoppable center lands up next. Also yes Kobe had a problem at the beginning of his years with Shaq, so, they still won and Duncan is not as clutch as you think, He had help in Ginobli and Tony, Right they don’t count, Duncan did it by himself like Shaq. Also read more insightful articles and not a journey man name Paul Shirley and Phil who loves Kobe now, so who cares about then, cause now Phil talks junk about Shaq, right, that doesn’t matter either. Kobe has 4 rings maybe more, your beloved Fat PP has one ring, I will take Kobe’s career over any of your celtics players, except Bill Russell and Kobe needs one more ring to jump over your Bird, You probably think Bird won those titles by himself too. But had plenty of help.
    I will go with Stats with you from the 84 to 87 Finals and you will see Bird had help, even getting outscore in the Finals to refute, your next statement Bird did it by himself.
    84 Finals Bird 27, Johnson 17, Parish 15, Machale 13
    85 Finals Mchale 26, Bird 23, Parish 17, Johson 16
    86 Finals Mchale 25, Bird 24, Johson 17, Ainge 15
    87 Finals Bird 24, Mchale 20, Parish 16, Johnson 21
    Greenie, he had alot of help, Larry Bird, he is one of the greatest, but his sidekicks played better sometimes in the FINALS than him!!!!

  • Pardeep Posted: Jun.20 at 10:54 pm
    Why is Iversons only 39 and James is 42 Iversons first 5 years were better than LeBrons first 6 years. D-Wade has a ring and a scoring title and a finals MVP. I think LeBron would take that any day. The only thing Wade missing is the season MVP. Wade>Nash. Nash is one of the most overrated players ever. People knock Iverson for not getting a ring with the sh*tiest teams in the league but Nash had the most talented teams and players in the league and couldnt even get to the finals. When Nash didnt have his usual averages this year people didnt say negative things about him they said the system he played in was not good for him. But no one said this for A.I.?? There is way to much politics out there. Jukai probably just hates braids,tats and the hip hop culture so he loves hating on A.I.

  • Pardeep Posted: Jun.20 at 11:12 pm
    First Ballot Hall of Famer Allen Iverson one of the best Careers In histroy. Quit Hating. Height: 6-0(!!!!!!!) Weight: 165 lbs(!!!!) -1996-1997 Rookie Of The Year
    -2000-2001 NBA MVP
    -10 Time NBA All-Star
    -Amazing career averages of 27.1 ppg (about 3rd all time)and 6.2 assists and 2.2 spg.
    -4 time Scoring Champion
    -3 time Steal Champion
    -2 time All Star Game MVP
    -1996-97 NBA All-Rookie (1st)
    -1998-99 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    -1999-00 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
    -2000-01 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    -2001-02 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
    -2002-03 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
    -2004-05 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    -2005-06 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
    -Took the 2001 Sixers who are arguably the least talented team in finals history. Even won em the first game. (48 points)
    - Has 13 career 50 point games.
    -Roughly 24,000 points
    -5,511 assists Keep Hating.

  • Todd Spehr Posted: Jun.20 at 11:13 pm
    Sheed, anyone who knows Bird knows he wasn’t defined by scoring. In the 86 Finals for example, he was at 9 dimes and 9 boards as well as his 24 points per. Can’t use that as an argument.

  • Todd Spehr Posted: Jun.20 at 11:14 pm
    By the way Seed, I added a “h” to your name. My bad

  • The Seed Posted: Jun.20 at 11:18 pm
    Todd I know, just wanted to rub it in Celts Fan face, because he is all about scoring-makes you the man. I am trying to get the Greenie to understand, To win the title it takes a team effort, not one player. Kobe found that out this Finals and others from the past, even Jordan found that out to win titles.

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.20 at 11:27 pm
    @pardeep: Perhaps because, individual numbers and politics aside, it takes a lot of things to “be exactly right” for Iverson to have a successful season. He needs the right coach, the right ego-less peripheral cast. And only one year (2001) did he have that combination. Allen had a very talented Nuggets at his disposal, and while that was moderately successful, it wasn’t great. And then the 10-deep Pistons. Therein lies the paradox of AI: I think he can only really succeed on a team of extremely specialized, ABSOLUTELY selfless role players. That’s really the one knock on him, but it’s a big one.

  • Celts Fan Posted: Jun.20 at 11:34 pm
    @Seed - your incompetance is staggering dude. When did I say Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, Bird, or anyone did it on their own? When did I say it was only about scoring? When did I even mention Pierce? I never said anything about doing anything alone, but it is important, in an argument like this, to point out who the best player on the team actually is. This is like talking to a child. It’s called reading comprehension dude. You’re an idiot. Top 10 of all time is a GREAT accomplishment, but he’s CLEARLY not ahead of Shaq or Duncan. Don’t bother trying to talk to people here til you learn to read. Useless fanboys are the worst…

  • Orlando Green Posted: Jun.21 at 1:31 am
    Kadavour THANK YOU…I’ve been waiting for a while for someone to explain that as well as you did it. Proper recognition to you.

  • Bill Adair Posted: Jun.21 at 2:06 am
    Duncan over Baylor? Incredible. Whoever made up this list must be too young to have ever seen Baylor play - score (before the 3-point shot), past, rebound. (As mentioned, he’s the guy who invented going up into the air and creating from there.)
    I think somewhere Bill Russell said on a 1 to 10 scale, there were about 8 players who ranked 10 - meaning that none of them were any better than the other 10’s. Makes good sense. Baylor was in Russell’s top 10.

  • doyouwantmore Posted: Jun.21 at 2:20 am
    I HATE to say it but Reggie Miller should have Dennis Rodman’s spot.

  • Big Kobe Fan Posted: Jun.21 at 2:30 am
    Kobe needs to go up,LeBron needs to go way up and Duncan needs to go down, way down.

  • Pardeep Posted: Jun.21 at 2:32 am
    hmmm no hate on a.i. ?

  • Pardeep Posted: Jun.21 at 2:32 am
    First Ballot Hall of Famer Allen Iverson one of the best Careers In histroy. Quit Hating. Height: 6-0(!!!!!!!) Weight: 165 lbs(!!!!) -1996-1997 Rookie Of The Year
    -2000-2001 NBA MVP
    -10 Time NBA All-Star
    -Amazing career averages of 27.1 ppg (about 3rd all time)and 6.2 assists and 2.2 spg.
    -4 time Scoring Champion
    -3 time Steal Champion
    -2 time All Star Game MVP
    -1996-97 NBA All-Rookie (1st)
    -1998-99 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    -1999-00 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
    -2000-01 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    -2001-02 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
    -2002-03 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
    -2004-05 NBA All-NBA (1st)
    -2005-06 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
    -Took the 2001 Sixers who are arguably the least talented team in finals history. Even won em the first game. (48 points)
    - Has 13 career 50 point games.
    -Roughly 24,000 points
    -5,511 assists Keep Hating.

  • Hendu0520 Posted: Jun.21 at 3:50 am
    Ok Kareem is way overrated here. What makes him so great was that he played so long, so what. In 73-74 he got swept out of the finals by the Celtics, look at that Celtic’s team, 6′9, 6′8, 69, Kareem 7′2. In the 70’s Oscar retired and he went 38-44. He got traded to the Lakers and they went 40-42 and missed the playoffs. The first Laker Chip in ‘80 was won by Magic and Kareem didn’t even play in Game 7. Kareem won one Chip in his prime. All his other’s came after 32, please. He lost to Bill Walton head to head another year in the 70’s when he was racking up his stupid MVP awards. And Shaq should have had more MVP’s. How bout this stat SEED; Shaq ‘01 Finals Game 2: 28pts, 20 reb, 9ast, 8blks, 1stl. That’s basically a quadruple double with 20 I repeat 20 rebounds. And it was against Dikembe Mutumbo in his prime. That’s following 44pts, 20 reb, 5asts for Shaq in Game 1. Kareem might have grabbed 20 rebounds in a finals game in ‘71 or ‘74 but never in the Finals in the ’80s. In ‘71 there were 30 more possessions a game and worse shooting % so there were more rebounds to go around. Kareem had nice longevity which I give him credit for, head to head Shaq destroys him, absolutely not even close. Look at Shaq’s finals numbers and playoff numbers they are insane. He should be #2 on the list behind Jordan.

  • Hendu0520 Posted: Jun.21 at 4:03 am
    Seed: Shaq couldn’t stay in games because of FT’s? Do you remember the famous 2000 West Finals, Game 7 against Portland? Adelman went with the Hack-a-Shaq and he went 8-12 and hit 4 in a row in the final minutes making Portland stop using the Hack-a-Shaq plan. So he ended up winning that Game 7 on HIS free throws and the total Portland collapse.

  • Hendu0520 Posted: Jun.21 at 4:05 am
    Game 7 Western Conference Finals 2000: Kobe 6-12 FT’s
    Shaq 8-12 Ft’s Shaq was always fine when it mattered most, please stop using FT’s. Wilt was much worse and so was Russell, please move on to something else.

  • Hendu0520 Posted: Jun.21 at 4:19 am
    In that Game 7 in 2000. Kobe 6-12 FT’s
    Shaq 8-12 FT’s Shaq always hit his free throws when it mattered. Russell and Wilt were much worse at shooting FT’s so please bring up some other way to diss Shaq, move on.

  • Yassi Posted: Jun.21 at 4:22 am
    @Joel O : “Karl lost the ball to MJ a possession before The Shot.” Sorry, but you are absolutely and a 100% wrong here.

  • Young Chris MP3 Posted: Jun.21 at 4:30 am
    Get ‘em, Hendu.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.21 at 5:34 am
    Hendu0520: You’re the most hypocritical player ever. Shaq has gotten swept six times in the Finals, and you’re mentioning how many times Kareem got swept?
    Kareem KILLED Walton in their matchup, statistically he KILLED him. Walton had a better team and won. Please read up on your facts.
    Kareem is pretty much better than Shaq in every category. Offensively, defensively, passing, rebounding, Kareem is just better.
    Championships: Kareem six, Shaq four.
    MVPs: Kareem six, Shaq one
    All NBA: Kareem 15, Shaq 14 (and Kareem didn’t have third team all-nba to get on like Shaq does)
    All-defense: Kareem 11, Shaq 3
    So, tell me, how is Shaq better in, oh, anyway?

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.21 at 5:45 am
    Plus, I mean, hell, Kareem and Shaq for their first 16 years:
    Kareem: 27.2-12.8-4.1-1.0-3.1
    Shaq 24.7-11.2-2.6-0.6-2.4
    So, yeah, I’m guessing Kareem is a superior player

  • marc Posted: Jun.21 at 5:58 am
    kobe bryant is #2, and how is lebron on this list he only played 6 years and has no ring, so far d wade has a better career. it makes no sense leaving reggie miller out and pistol pete for lebron james and steve nash, and dennis rodman come on now.

  • larrylegend Posted: Jun.21 at 5:58 am
    you really think, the 80ies celtics would have won titels, with greg kite as starting center? parish HoFer, parish in the top50!

  • fatlever12 Posted: Jun.21 at 9:26 am
    I’m a no one here, but I’m just gonna say what alot of truly intelligent basketball fans are thinking when they read through all these comments and arguments…”The Seed” has a very skewed aspect of basketball history….please stop talking…

  • tavoris Posted: Jun.21 at 9:42 am
    I was suprised as heck to see Rodman on this list (no one gives “the worm” any love these days. In his playing days, Rodman was arguably the best, most underrated defender in the ENTIRE L. Additionally, his teams clearly just played better when he was on the court.

  • Eric B Posted: Jun.21 at 10:05 am
    Where is Tiny Archibald? Only player to lead the league in scoring and assist in a single season. In the 72 - 73 season he averaged 34 points per and 11.4 assist. He should be well ahead of Gary Payton.

  • Eric B Posted: Jun.21 at 10:10 am
    One other thing on Tiny Archibald. He played 80 games 72 - 73 season, and there was no such thing as the 3 pointer at that time. On one in the league could contain him. An he played in a time when the league had many “hall of famer’s” all playing at their peaks.

  • jeric Posted: Jun.21 at 10:46 am
    i just want to ask, how come my man, Flash, didn’t get into the top 50? I mean, I really think he’s better than LeBron. Don’t get me wrong, The King is still a great player. However, compared to Wade in the biggest stage of the NBA. LeBron choked! While Wade, who happened to be a great team player, thanks to his college ball days, “almost” single-handedly lead the Heat to heir First NBA Championship. While LeBron fell to the now falling dynasty, The Spurs. Anyways, just asking why Wade wasn’t in the Top 50 of Slam.

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.21 at 12:11 pm
    @yassi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un0NXwgWNUM

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.21 at 12:13 pm
    @yassi: I corrected myself - MJ’s last shot, I mean. Now go youtube “Michael Jordan’s last shot” and see who loses the ball to MJ before he hits his last shot.

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.21 at 12:18 pm
    @Pardeep: It’s not like AI isn’t ON the list. To NOT unequivocally, blindlessly, unquestionably surrender yourself to the extremes of AI blissful man-love is “hate”?

  • James the balla Posted: Jun.21 at 12:40 pm
    So if right now, Lebron stopped playing ball. he would be top 50 EVER to play in the NBA? Really SLAM?

  • James the balla Posted: Jun.21 at 12:43 pm
    I mean, by going to the playoffs 5 times. Talk about controversy, with Steve nash and his MVP’s. What about bron with rookie of the year. Everyone knew melo should of had it. So 5 playoffs. One finals appearance, and zero wins in the finals. And he is top 50 worthy. Crazy. In 3 years if bron wins a championship. Ya’ll will have him at 3. And by the time he is thirty, ya’ll will have him in the number one spot. The closest to him being MJ at number 6. Because Bron will have filled up 1-5.

  • James the balla Posted: Jun.21 at 1:00 pm
    Do you think we will see Bron on the cover of SLAM next? Two cover’s. One of the lakers winning the ship, and the other cover of Bron.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 2:06 pm
    I just got the issue in my hands today. Nice photos. I actually didn’t want to look at the list online until I got the physical issue so I could savor it, but I couldn’t resist. Dang. Anyway, I have another MAJOR bone to pick with SLAM over this whole Top 50, and that, friends, is the issue of the good Doctor Julius Erving.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 2:07 pm
    I could give you the short version: Dr.J at 15? GTFOH.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 2:24 pm
    Or I could say that a dude who, to quote YOU: “TURNED THE DUNK INTO AN OFFENSIVE WEAPON”. This guy was MJ’s MJ, people. You don’t get Kobe and LeBron without Doc. And he WAS the ABA. I mean, come on, but Bob Pettit over Dr. J? Really? No disrespect to Bob Pettit… I mean, you beat those Russell Celtics, you must be doing something right, but this Dr. J we’re talking about.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.21 at 2:28 pm
    Tariq: Every SLAM person I have talked to has said, “go talk to Lang”
    Apparently, Lang wanted to put him at thirty or something.
    Dr J should have been at 8-11. I know 15 doesn’t seem like THAT big of a jump, but it just seems like the dude is sort of pushed to the side. This guy was monstrous!
    James The Balla: Enough about championships man. Chips are not basketball life. Lebron has achieved more in his six years than AI has achieved in his entire career, should we switch them, do you think?

  • NBB Posted: Jun.21 at 2:30 pm
    good list overall. i agree with shaq being above kareem, its not always all about the numbers and few players if any had the effect on a game that shaq could have with his size. the only flaw i see is how pistol pete is not on this list after all he did for the game….

  • jae M Posted: Jun.21 at 2:35 pm
    Great list
    This is post LA championship, I think Kobe has probably moved up a spot or two

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 2:46 pm
    Even 8-11 may have been too low. I mean, read Russ’s entry again. the guy was the reason for the ABA/NBA merger. The only way Doc is at 15 is if you decide that everything he accomplished in the ABA doesn’t count. But that isn’t what SLAM did and that wouldn’t make sense anyway. I just don’t get it. I mean, the only guys I’d DEFINITLEY take over Doc are Mike, Wilt, Oscar and Magic. That’s it. You’re telling me you’d take Jerry West over Doc? Please. Or KOBE?

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 2:48 pm
    I mean, that was just the only thing worse than Steve Nash being at 50. Steve Nash is actually at 127 all-time. Seriously.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 2:52 pm
    I mean, I was rooting for Kobe like a little b*tch during these playoffs, but let’s have SOME perspective.

  • James the balla Posted: Jun.21 at 2:59 pm
    Jukai as much as I agree with you on most things. This… so right now Lebron is top 42 to ever play in the NBA? Ever … which means in another 3 years, he should be the greatest. I mean in MJ’s first 9 years he accomplished a heck of a alot. 3 rings, MVP’s, scoring titles. And at that point most people wouldn’t have put him top 20. He became number one towards the end of his career. But before Washington lol. Bron has 6 years and he is already top 42 lol. That is crazy. Next year he will be 30. Year after 20. Then 10, and if he wins a ship or another MVP. MJ and Kobe, and Russell, and Shaq all might as well step down and polish Bron’s ugly ball shoes!!

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 2:59 pm
    But I have to hand it you, SLAM:
    “Bob Pettit > Julius Erving”
    That’s funny. I mean that’s some comedy right there. For real. I can’t wait for the next installment when you inexplicably decide that George Mikan is better than Magic.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 3:01 pm
    By the way, everything I said about Doc also applies to Moses Malone, but to a lesser degree.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 3:06 pm
    Moses should have been, like, 11.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 3:16 pm
    1- MJ
    2- Wilt
    3- Oscar
    4- Magic
    5- Kareem
    6- Doc
    7- Russell
    8- Shaq
    9- Duncan
    10-Bird
    11-Olajuwon
    12-Kobe
    13-Moses
    14-Jerry West
    15-Elgin Baylor And as for Bob Pettit, I wouldn’t rank him in the Top 20, to be honest. Great player, don’t get me wrong, but let’s not get crazy. OK, so you hung 50 on the Celtics. In the Finals. In the decisive Game 6. Does that make you better than, say, Isiah Thomas? Well, OK, yeah, it does, but it doesn’t make you better than Doc.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 3:26 pm
    Bob Pettit > Isiah Thomas ?

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.21 at 3:26 pm
    Tariq, while I mostly agree about doctor J, (he was the reason my dad watched basketball which in turn is the reason I watch basketball, I even have a VHS of doctor J’s basketball stuff training) ..JUst because he was the first doesn’t mean we would have no (insert dunker). Maybe Mike would have done it, who knows. It’s impossible to say.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 3:27 pm
    OK, I’ll concede Isiah. But not Doc. Not in a million years.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 3:37 pm
    Shia,
    Well, first of all, I don’t want to define Doc as just a dunker. He was much more than that. He was much more complete than a Vince Carter or a Dominique Wilkins.
    And as for “maybe Mike would have done it”. Well, maybe Michael Jackson would have been Michael Jackson without James Brown. Maybe, but I doubt it. You can’t be who you are in a vacuum. You have to build on what someone has built before you. It’s called influence.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 3:43 pm
    That’s why you got Elgin Baylor at 11.

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.21 at 3:43 pm
    Then how do you explain Elgin Baylor? Who did he have to emulate? Or George Mikan? Or really any of those old heads, who did Oscar and Pistol Pete mirror their games after? I can understand what you’re saying , the maybe part comes in with if Doc wasn’t out there doing it then maybe Mike wouldn’t have ever liked basketball, but his athletic ability is what it is, if he would have played basketball and no one before him was attacking the rim I don’t think that would have stopped him. But I would never define doc as just a dunker, he was a rebounding shot blocking ball hawking scoring machine in his heyday.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 3:54 pm
    But that’s my point, Shia! It’s a progression. You don’t go from the set shot to all of a sudden making reverse lay-ups in traffic for and-ones. It just doesn’t work that way. Someone has to come along and transcend the game. And people go “WHAT?! WHAT THE HELL DID HE JUST DO?!” And people learn from him and pattern their games after him. Elgin Baylor was one of those guys. Doc was one of those guys. MJ was one of those guys. MJ wasn’t on planet Kweglar-8 in the seventies. He was aware that Doc was RUNNING sh*t. And he patterned at least PART of his game on what Doc was doing. Hell, he won the dunk contest based on copying Doc’s dunk contest, right? So don’t tell me it’s just a matter of raw athleticism coming to fruition. It has to do with imagination and with patterning your game after those who came before you.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 3:55 pm
    Speaking of which, where the hell is Connie Hawkins on this list?

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.21 at 4:09 pm
    James: By Jordan’s first nine years, we were calling him the best basketball player of all time. You clearly were not alive by then. I mean, before Jordan won a championship, he was already considered a top-15 top-20 player. Lebron is getting LESS of a benefit for doing MORE in his first six seasons.
    Like, read some old articles or something, man. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.21 at 4:15 pm
    Tariq: Maybe I disagree with you now. When I list basketball players, it has NOTHING to do with how instrumental they were at shaping the game. I don’t think that should be taken into consideration what-so-ever.
    I like Dr. J at 8-11 because of the dude’s skill: a monster scorer, he was getting 25 points a game with 10 rebounds and five assists! He wasn’t a slacker on defense either, two steals and a block and half a game! Two ABA championships, an NBA championship, and a helluva lot of playoff and Finals appearances in both! He was a winner, he had the stats, he had the skills… sure, he was a bit turnover prone and had an AVERAGE shot (I hate people saying he had no jumper. It was streaky, but he had it!) but he was complete in every other way. Done deal.
    Connie Hawkins doesn’t deserve to be on a top 50 list. I’d take Nash over him any day and twice Sunday. Did I already use that one?

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 4:24 pm
    By the way, I know about 99% of the people here agree that Steve Nash shouldn’t be even allowed to READ a list of the Top 50 Players of all time, but just to add a few points, here are Nash’s numbers from his MVP seasons:
    2005: 18.8 ppg 10.5 apg
    2006: 18.6 ppg 10.6 apg These are the two seasons for which Nash are included on this list. The main reasons, right? OK, forget the hardware and the politics, just look at the numbers. They’re pretty good, I admit. Not ASTRONOMICAL, but good. Now look at this: Kevin Johnson, who NOBODY mentioned as a snub for this list…let’s look at some of his numbers: in 1988: 20.4 ppg and 12.4 apg
    in 1989: 22.5 ppg and 11.4 apg
    in 1990: 22.0 ppg and 10.1 apg
    in 1991: 19.7 ppg and 10.7 apg AND KJ, unlike Nash, went to the Finals with Barkley. AND he could play better defense. AND he dunked on Hakeem Olajuwon. So riddle me this: How in the name of f*ck is Steve Nash better than Kevin Johnson?

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 4:28 pm
    Jukai: OK, you disagree with me. I think shaping the game is important. And do you know who Connie Hawkins is?

  • Housekeeping, Some Lakers, Muggsy Posted: Jun.21 at 4:37 pm
    [...] where does Kobe rank on the All-Time list now? Slam just “remixed” the Top 50 Players of All Time and has him at #12 (although they did it prior to the [...]

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 5:20 pm
    I mean, I realize that Connie Hawkins isn’t your typical basketball great. He’s more of a special case. Maybe you don’t include him in the 50 if you’re just looking at stats, but then why is he in the Hall if Fame? I guess his story just intrigues me. And he’s always regarded as one of the most important players in basketball. Plus, they describe him as a taller version of Oscar Robertson. That sounds cool. Way cooler than Steve freakin Nash.

  • Joel O's Posted: Jun.21 at 5:29 pm
    I think if you asked MJ what *his* list was be, Dr J would be really high up on it. And Connie Hawkins would definitely be on it, too.

  • HoopsFanMike Posted: Jun.21 at 5:31 pm
    1) Magic
    2) Wilt
    3) MJ how can #1 be such consensus? C’mon, MJ was GREAT, but put the ’90’s Bulls into the ’80’s and they get 1 or 2 -maybe- 3 championships. MJ ALWAYS gets recognition, but older fans need to voice their opinions on what player was the BEST in the HISTORY of the game! Magic made the Showtime Lakers the greatest ever team, he must be recognized for that! He was flashiest/best PG, but what seperated him was that he also elevated the games of his teammates in a way no other player ever did, outside of Bill Russell. He is clearly the Greatest of All-Time! Don’t forget Wilt though! Wilt simply dominated, purely and simply, in a way it has NEVER been dominated before or since. Remember Wilt averaging 45 pts/24 rebounds a game over an entire season? Not to mention his 50+ scoring average in ‘61/62! C’mon! Yes, Jordan was/is/forever-will-be GREAT. He deserves to be up on a basketball Mt. Rushmore, that is for sure. HOWEVER he cannot be placed higher than Magic or Wilt, at their sides perhaps, but not higher!

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 5:35 pm
    Joel, I’d bet you a dollar that Jordan would make believe he was “Hawk” when he was a kid.

  • Alpha-bet Posted: Jun.21 at 5:38 pm
    Hmm..it’s great that this list is doing what list is supposed to do..spark debate & discussion. Overall I think this is a good list. Even though I think D-Wade has to be on here already if LeBron is.. And Nash..if this was top 55 even, Nash would make it. I understand him having 2 MVP’s bought him on the list, but over Tiny Archibald or Kevin Johnson at the pg position is not accurate. Not frontin on the 2 MVP’s, but players win that every year. Tiny did something that will probably never be duplicated ever again (lead the league in scoring & assist). Do you know how crazily sick that is?..Lead the L in scoring AND assist?..that is supposed to be oxymoronic to even think..lol And K.J.’s career is more consistent and effective that Nash’s, which basically got on the list for 3 years..Poeple forget K.J. DEMOLISHED Magic’s Lakers in the 1990 playoffs..and really put the nail in the cofin that Isiah built on that great dynasty. So yeah, I have to put the ones born Nathaniel and Kevin over Stephen.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 5:47 pm
    Alphabet:
    Kevin Johnson shouldn’t be on here. I just brought him up as an example of how many players I can think of ahead of Nash. KJ, great as he was, is not a Top 50 player, but he was about 100 times better than Nash. I mean, how can people forget that? But there are other guys more deserving than KJ.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 5:49 pm
    NATE, on the other hand, SHOULD be here. I mean, Steve Nash over Tiny is just rude.

  • HoopsFanMike Posted: Jun.21 at 6:02 pm
    A few other observations: Duncan is too high. Does he really deserve to be above ‘The Mailman’? Shaq should not be above Kareem. Top-10, yeah OK but Kareem ahead of him. Elgin Baylor deserves to be in the top-10. None other than Chick Hearn used to call him the best he’s ever seen play. Kevin Garnett does not deserve to be in the top-50 in my eyes. Could he be the most overrated player ever? Perhaps… LeBron in top-50? A little early but OK, can live with it, he will be there eventually. AI at 39? Don’t know if he merits it although I love his game and heart. Reggie Miller deserves a slot in there somewhere, he is perhaps the greatest pure-shooter the league has ever seen. Overall, a good list. Would change the order of top-3, drop Shaq and especially Duncan down, move Baylor and Kareem up. But a good, fair representation of older players with newer ones mixed in. Don’t have a problem of moving Kobe Bryant up into top-10 either, he is well on his way to getting there if not already…

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 6:18 pm
    I’ve got nothing against Nash, by the way. I actually like him. Seems like a genuinely nice guy. But he ain’t even close to being one of the Top 50 players of all time and deep down we all now this to be true.

  • Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 6:22 pm
    By the way, remember when we had that discussion about whether or not Horry should be in the Hall of Fame? How come nobody mentioned Horry over here in the Top 50? It’s because Horry wouldn’t be anywhere near a Top 250. Hence, he shouldn’t be in the HOF. He’s a hell of a clutch shooter, though.

  • James the balla Posted: Jun.21 at 6:56 pm
    Jukai, I grew up on Jordan. I know he was considered great by then. But Bron man … he just doesn’t deserve yet. Wade has done more and ain’t here. It is just because people are trying to make Bron the “future”. 42? Crazy to me.

  • Bryan Posted: Jun.21 at 7:44 pm
    If kc jones can be in the hall of fame based only on team success with averages of 7 points and 4 assists then robert horry who won everywhere he went except pheonix can get in with 7 points and 5 boards.

  • HoopsFanMike Posted: Jun.21 at 8:57 pm
    Tariq Posted: Jun.21 at 6:22 pm
    By the way, remember when we had that discussion about whether or not Horry should be in the Hall of Fame? How come nobody mentioned Horry over here in the Top 50? It’s because Horry wouldn’t be anywhere near a Top 250. Hence, he shouldn’t be in the HOF. He’s a hell of a clutch shooter, though.
    ————————————–
    Oh wow. Can’t agree, I mean I can agree that he shouldn’t be in a top-50, but he would most probably be on the next-50, definitely in 50 after that if not. There was more than ability when measuring-up Horry’s game. I mean, his clutch shots ALONE makes him a great player, there are very few if any NBA players in history that have hit as many game-ending, clutch shots. But when one sees the intangibles he brings, his ball-movement on offense, the smart play, his hustle and his severely underrated defense, well he’s a borderline ‘great’. I mean, he probably played the best defense on #8 all-time Tim Duncan when he was on the Lakers than anyone. Don’t say Horry is not in the top-250 all-time Tariq, it hurts your cred on some other good arguments you make on other players in this thread…

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.21 at 9:00 pm
    Tariq: I dunno man, sounds like haterade to me. If you think people who shape the game deserve to make the list, then Steve Nash HAS to make the list… he single handedly bought the importance of point-guard back to the NBA. He made the fast break important, he made passing glorified (ask Rose and Rubio who they looked up to) and he put an emphasis on team success which spread throughout the NBA. Nash was VERY MUCH important in shaping the NBA. Suddenly point guards are going in the top-3 in the draft, suddenly dudes are practicing highlight passes over taking it to the rim… who else can you thank for this other than Nash? You can’t.
    Plus, I mean, KJ? I keep arguing with people over this. KJ wasn’t that fantastic. I mean, top-15 point guard of all time, but certainly not over Steve Nash. Dude had no range outside of ten feet, and I never thought of him as a great leader. Sure, when his team was absolutely terrible and no one else was doing anything, he was getting 20-10, but the moment Collangelo gathered a decent team with Barkley, Ainge, Rambis, KJ’s points AND assists dropped drastically. You’d think with shooters and one of the best finishers in the NBA, his points and assists would jump, but he just sort of took a back seat. He was sort of Allen Iverson-ish in that manner. I don’t know, he just never struck me as great, once the team became an actual contender, KJ sort of took a leap back. Nash, on the other hand, always upped his game in the playoffs. I guess people just look at KJ’s stats and make their own conclusions.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.21 at 9:05 pm
    James the balla Posted: Jun.21 at 2:59 pm
    …I mean in MJ’s first 9 years he accomplished a heck of a alot. 3 rings, MVP’s, scoring titles. And at that point most people wouldn’t have put him top 20…
    —————————————–
    If you grew up with Jordan, than why would you say something so absolutely dumb? Nine years into Jordan’s career, he was pretty much considered the best of the best, period. There was no argument. I’d even go as far as to say before Jordan won a chip, people were considering him one of the best players ever. So don’t compare Lebron to Jordan, saying “OMG LEBRON IS ALREADY 42 JORDAN NEVER GOT THAT RESPECT!”
    Jordan got FAR, FAR, FAR more respect than Lebron this far in their careers. I’m not saying it was undeserved respect, but I’m saying stop crying wolf, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

  • Guam Posted: Jun.21 at 9:52 pm
    Real deal Slam, just wanna say i appreciate having articles like this up, and not requring us to be “In” members to ur site…F*ck espn man. P.s. the shaq section was tight.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.21 at 10:12 pm
    KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE BETTER THAN SHAQUILLE O’NEAL!

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.21 at 10:14 pm
    Allen Iverson is top 25 of all time, AT LEAST. Clyde Frazier too. Iceman is top 30 at least. Okay I’ve repeated myself so much, my fingers hurt.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.21 at 10:20 pm
    Top 3 centers ever: Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar, Olajuwon.

  • jb Posted: Jun.21 at 10:57 pm
    Interesting list. I liked that MJ, Pippin and Rodman all made the list. I remember watching the Bulls in early 87. It was all MJ and nothing else - not very fun, and they didn’t win. Scottie made them a team, and Dennis made them unbeatable. Take a look at Artis Gilmore’s stats. Why is he consistently overlooked. It is truly mind-boggling. Stockton should have been higher. He was the quintessential team player, was fun to watch. It was a like a guard clinic every time he was on the floor. Shaq was good, but not that good. To make the top 5, you should have to have changed the way the game was played - be a real watershed player, not just an impact player.

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.21 at 11:12 pm
    @ HoopsFanMike: Horry was never really that good offensively, at all, except for the last 5 seconds.

  • Steve Posted: Jun.21 at 11:18 pm
    Just to bring back to the now… interested in what you guys think the top ten would look like if Jordan never played, taking into account what it would do to people’s careers (Rings for Stockton and Malone, maybe Reggie Miller gets one, maybe Olajuwon and Magic both get more if free agents go to them instead of Chicago etc).
    Also wonder what happens to Kobe if he plays at the same time as Jordan. In that scenario I see him being compared to Drexler more than MJ. Point is, era is critical. Play in an era with a dominant player playing your position and you get ranked lower than if you are the same player but happen to be the alpha of your era.

  • Steve Posted: Jun.21 at 11:21 pm
    @jb … they won 3 without Rodman you know

  • Steve Posted: Jun.21 at 11:24 pm
    also, lol at all you guys discounting Duncan. Must be that anyone not on an And1 mix tape is clearly not worthy of this list… idiots!

  • ADM Posted: Jun.21 at 11:30 pm
    The worst top 4 to 10 GOAT I’ve ever read. I hope it would be better the next time around. Plus they excluded some deserving players.

  • rec Posted: Jun.21 at 11:38 pm
    last time you put out the Top 50, you added The Next 25…Nice to see you got it right on a few of them (cough: Grant Hill) The next 25 will include: Wade, Howard, Paul, and DRose!!!

  • Guam Posted: Jun.21 at 11:53 pm
    @jb-shaq did change the game…that big that strong that fast…he deserves top 5 for sure

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.21 at 11:57 pm
    Okay I’ve had enough not complaining: REGGIE MILLER SHOULD BE ON THAT DARN LIST. HE’S THE BEST SHOOTERS OF ALL TIME. HE NEEDS TO BE ON THAT TOP 50!

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.22 at 12:00 am
    Sorry, not shooters. He IS the best shooter of all time. If you’re the best of something like he was, you deserve to be in the top 50. Shoot, Rodman made it for being the best rebounder. Why shouldn’t Reggie? Not to mention ANY NBA team would rather have Reggie Miller than Dennis Rodman. Both deserve to be in the top 50, though. SO WHERE IS REGGIE MILLER?

  • Alpha-bet Posted: Jun.22 at 12:00 am
    @ Tariq & Jukai: My point is really that it’s hard
    to have Nash in the top 50, when I
    can name a few guards better with more consistent careers.
    KJ happen to be one of them, even though
    yes I do agree KJ is not a Top 50 player,
    but I think he’s better than Nash,
    I mean KJ at least put in a good 10 years
    of the same type of productivity that
    Nash got in his 2 MVP years.
    But yes I agree it’s a few players more deserving than KJ for that spot
    (Joe Dumars, Robert Parish, James Worthy, Reggie Miller, Sam Jones..) But the main glaring error is no Tiny Archibald, especially since this list
    seem to honor record setters and trend
    setting accomplishments, what Tiny did
    in his day was basically the template
    for every ’scoring’ pg that came after him.

  • Steve Posted: Jun.22 at 12:02 am
    The only player above AI that I would choose AI over is Bob Cousy. Same player, different era’s but AI brought more to the table offensively.

  • Steve Posted: Jun.22 at 12:02 am
    Teddy, Miller would be there but for MJ

  • Teddy-the-Bear Posted: Jun.22 at 12:06 am
    That doesn’t make any sense, Steve.
    Miller is top 50 hands down. This shouldn’t even be a discussion. Sadly, it is here…

  • Steve Posted: Jun.22 at 12:17 am
    Thing is Teddy, who (aside from Nash) do you kick out to get him in? not sure i would take him before anyone else in there. Only a borderline all-star his entire career, which is good but not great. Re Nash, I just don’t see how you can not have him in when he wins 2 MVP’s. Understand all the arguments but at the end of the day he has the things that define greatness. 50th is fair.

  • Housekeeping Test and a New Post Posted: Jun.22 at 12:23 am
    [...] where does Kobe rank on the All-Time list now? Slam just “remixed” the Top 50 Players of All Time and has him at #12 (although they did it prior to the [...]

  • Ben Osborne Posted: Jun.22 at 12:25 am
    This is my favorite comment so far:
    TADOne Posted: Jun.19 at 2:14 pm
    I’m not reading all 290 comments. I just wanted to say I thoroughly enjoyed this list and each write up that was done.

  • el gee Posted: Jun.22 at 1:44 am
    ha look at all these comments. i cant even imagine how hard it must have been to actually come to an agreement up at the slam dome. good thing you guys got that new cat to do crazy amounts of research. after reading the ish all i gotta say is job well done. keep doing it slam, keep doing it.

  • Jukai Posted: Jun.22 at 2:21 am
    Alpha-bet: If you’re not going to read my posts, not so sure I should read yours. As I said, KJ is the anti-Nash. He couldn’t shoot for beans, his assists and points went DOWN once the team actually became a championship contender (in essence, he’s sort of Iverson-ish where HE had to be the center of the team to be successful), and his game dropped during the playoffs. Nash was an amazing shooter, his game rose when he had people to work with, and his game was better in the playoffs. Why is KJ better than Nash? His passing and leadership skills are FAR overrated.

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