Our History     

David Goodstein Robert I. McQueen, Advocate editor hired by David Goodstein

On February 22, 1978 The Advocate published "The Heterosexual Solution: A Dilemma for Gay Mormons" (pp. 10-15). An abridged version of "Prologue," the article included this provocative illustration of a gay man undergoing electroshock therapy under the shadow of the Salt Lake Temple.

Flanked by Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, a less-than-flattering Spencer W. Kimball attempts to "cure" gay men by showing them female pornographic material. The Advocate, 22 February 1978, pp. 11, 13, 15.

and after I finished, they wanted to lynch me! What I told them was that it wasn't enough to be Jewish, and that it was also important for them to be gay—to be gay with the other Jews. It wasn't enough to experience oppression together. That did not get the job done with those no-good, orthodox bums in white socks in Brooklyn: black suits and white socks that were standing in the way and still are! I said, "It's them you oughta lynch! Now in your case it's probably [Spencer W.] Kimball. Because it's time he went into wherever he has the telephone to God and has another conversation. Whatever it is he uses.

And that is a fabulous thing, whatever it is, because it gives your Church the capacity and capability to change—something no other church has built in that I know of. All the others have this set of revealed truths and that's it for a long time. And the only way, the ONLY way that any religion comes to terms with who we are is because we won't let them not come to terms with it.

I am really moved by your being willing to join a group of other gay Mormons. The Advocate, which I have the privilege of owning, is sometimes known as "The Mormon Mafia" and I have been compared with Howard Hughes about my having Mormons around me.

I have supported more than one colleague through excommunication from your Church so I know a little bit about that. I have come to know what it really means to be gay and a Mormon—a little bit. I can't really know. But I have a sort of sense of it—and I know that it isn't an easy thing to do—to acknowledge your gayness as a Mormon. I mean, the Mormon guilt is at such a high level that it boggles my imagination. It is among the most superior of all the religions of the world—it is right in there.

I also notice that those of us from one of those kinds of backgrounds also tend to have an enormous strength that comes, out of living with, dealing with, coming to terms with, who we are in a context of a right-wrong system as profound as yours. Nevertheless, when you think of guilt, you think of Jewish mothers and I will take a back seat to no one in my under-standing of guilt. Nevertheless, I am grateful that I grew up with a very clear, a very unambiguous set of rules. And I notice that particularly among the Mormon people I have met and dealt with, that along with your rule book comes an incredible experience and ability to love other people, so there's got to be something fabulous about this background you all come out of which makes turning your back on it harder.

If I were in front of a Dignity group—they haven't had the courage to ask me—I'd be telling them about the Pope! What kind of spirituality is it that denies us? To call that spirituality, to call that coming from God is bullshit. And that is not really being nice to all the bulls in the world. It's worse than that. It's a travesty of everything that religion allegedly stands for—to deny our godliness, to deny our relationship to God—however we define that, and however we perceive God to be—is ridiculous, absurd, and not at all religious. And for everybody, even the Pope, Kimball or those orthodox Jews to maintain otherwise, is, to use their terminology, PLAIN WRONG!!! 'Cause you're gonna have to confront them—first.

There's no way around confrontation, I'm afraid. And a lot of your colleagues have begun to do that. How dare they do the sort of thing they do at Brigham Young University—and they're still doing it as far as we at The Advocate know. They still—shock therapy and the whole shtick. How dare they do that in the name of God!

Why is confrontation useful? Does it ever achieve a win in the pure sense? No. Never. It has only one utility—it gets their attention. And then you're going to have to teach them about God and spirituality.

I've learned a little bit about your theology. And it seems there are certain gates to Heaven that families go through. A lot of you hold that as your curse, but I'm telling you—that's your secret weapon. Your families love you! Just like you love them. And they don't want you to have your humanity dismissed.

Now just like you went through a coming-out process—they'll have to go through one. Their's may be even more uncomfortable than yours was. My father's was—VERY uncomfortable. I'm not sure he's gonna make it and I kid you not. Nevertheless, when push came to shove he's on my side against the world. I'm his blood. I'm his son. And I'm telling you—that's the way it's wired up! Its not the other way around.

You are their children, and their brothers and their sisters and their nieces and nephews. And they are not about to ignore that unless you let them. Believe it or not, seventy-five percent of you will discover that they're on your side immediately, twenty-three percent within a year and two percent will be real hold-outs but if you really have courage you'll question their sexuality, 'cause I've never known a straight person absolutely secure in their straightness who has the "stuff" about us. And I have this deep, underlying suspicion about Kimball.

Well, for one thing, Mormons know how to work. That's why Howard Hughes employed them and that's why I employ them. Yes, I sort of do have this bias. The other reason is that the year after I bought the magazine I hired an editor named [Robert I.] McQueen who happens to be the son of a Mormon bishop, and he comes from Salt Lake City. And like everyone else in the world, he knew people in Salt Lake who were talented in the area of journalism so before we knew it we had several Mormons in the editorial department and we have Mormons in other departments as well. It's really that simple."