UPDATED
By Syed Jaymal Zahiid and Debra ChongKUALA LUMPUR, July 15 — Nine people were arrested by police last night at Universiti Putra Malaysia (UPM), allegedly on a covert conversion mission.
Lawyer Annou Xavier told The Malaysian Insider the students were visiting friends on the campus in Serdang when they were stopped by cops.
The police claimed a report had been lodged against them, said Annou, who was contacted by one of the nine. Two of the nine are UPM students.
"According to the investigating officer, five Muslim students had lodged a police report after claiming they were shown and given pamphlets on Christianity," he added.
The nine were detained overnight at the Sepang police headquarters and have been released on police bail. They denied the allegations.
One of those arrested, Yip Bok Wan, when asked why he thought the five Muslim students had accused them, said the entire fracas could have just been the result of confusion.
Yip said the police had told them that the five Muslim students had cited several people for handing out pamphlets about the Christian faith within the university grounds last Sunday.
"But we were not there on Sunday so maybe the police, after getting complaints, thought it was us," said Yip, adding that he will lodge a counter police report on the matter.
The university authorities have refused to comment on the matter.
Its corporate communications officer, Abdullah Arshad, when contacted, said since the incident was under police investigation, the university would leave it to the police to handle it.
Comments (31)
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written by NEF , July 15, 2009
written by NEF , July 15, 2009
to jamesloh18: They study at NATIONAL EVANGELICAL FOUNDATION, if they don't go out for evangelism what for they study there????
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written by goh, July 15, 2009
written by goh, July 15, 2009
Although I disagree with the arrests, I think evangelical tactics can go too far sometimes. I remember when I was in university, how some Christians from a certain church would organize what seemed like harmless, innocent 'trips' for freshmen that ultimately turned out to be a conversion exercise instead. And also the time when they will just enter our rooms, make themselves at home, sit on our beds and start preaching the virtues of Christianity.
I'm not trying to hammer Christianity here - all religions have their bad apples - but sometimes I wonder if with these dubious salesmen like tactics they are actually doing a disservice more than a service to their religion.
I'm not trying to hammer Christianity here - all religions have their bad apples - but sometimes I wonder if with these dubious salesmen like tactics they are actually doing a disservice more than a service to their religion.
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written by PH Chin, July 15, 2009
written by PH Chin, July 15, 2009
No one can force conversion upon another person. It is the decision of one's heart. That's why every human person on the earth is given the free will to choose.
How can one converts another, unless one's heart will to do.
How can one converts another, unless one's heart will to do.
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written by Hang Tuah 1, July 15, 2009
written by Hang Tuah 1, July 15, 2009
Aiyahhh,
my friend told me that in his son's school,
Malay Muslim teachers are trying to convert non-Muslim students all the time.
In the school assembly and in classrooms,
they will extol their religion and condemn others openly.
Perhaps someone should lodge a police report,
and these teachers be arrested.
What about the attempt to convert Indian children,
What about Indira Gandhi where justice is not served yet,
What about Mohan Singh and Muthy and others - their bodies snatched from the morgue????
What about radio and tv programmes -
are they not trying to convert others????
my friend told me that in his son's school,
Malay Muslim teachers are trying to convert non-Muslim students all the time.
In the school assembly and in classrooms,
they will extol their religion and condemn others openly.
Perhaps someone should lodge a police report,
and these teachers be arrested.
What about the attempt to convert Indian children,
What about Indira Gandhi where justice is not served yet,
What about Mohan Singh and Muthy and others - their bodies snatched from the morgue????
What about radio and tv programmes -
are they not trying to convert others????
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written by eng, July 15, 2009
written by eng, July 15, 2009
they are recommanding that they think it's right, and not forcing ppl into it. After all u the all the right not to listen or walk away
are we now in the mood to nab all salesmen, direct salesmen at the door step, or even UMNO supporters or pakatan supporters ??
are we now in the mood to nab all salesmen, direct salesmen at the door step, or even UMNO supporters or pakatan supporters ??
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written by wkc, July 15, 2009
written by wkc, July 15, 2009
If it is the other way around, they call it "religious work in the name of their God and Prophet". When others do it, it is blasphemy, inciting, condemnation and insulting . Talk to any non Muslim student or teacher in any govt schools and they will tell you how other races and religions are openly condemned and insulted. The point here is mutual tolerance and respect. Remember the PM said "not merely to tolerate but to embrace" ?
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written by JPII, July 15, 2009
written by JPII, July 15, 2009
Agree with GreekOrthodox.. In fact, many Evangelicals are bent on labeling both Roman Catholics and Orthodox Christians as non-Christians, not knowing the Eastern and Western Church were the foundation of modern Christendom
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written by kajang ah fook, July 15, 2009
written by kajang ah fook, July 15, 2009
No real harm done by these over-zealous young Christians. Just reprimand and release them.
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written by Pan, July 15, 2009
written by Pan, July 15, 2009
Did they even arrest the correct people or not?
Anyway, I'm wary of evangelicals - their recruitment methods are questionable.
Overseas Christian Fellowship societies in foreign universities target freshies, offering friendship to lonely M'sian kids then slowly indoctrinate them with subtle insinuations condemning Buddhist, Taoist and traditional chinese practices. It is disrespectful and wrong.
Anyway, I'm wary of evangelicals - their recruitment methods are questionable.
Overseas Christian Fellowship societies in foreign universities target freshies, offering friendship to lonely M'sian kids then slowly indoctrinate them with subtle insinuations condemning Buddhist, Taoist and traditional chinese practices. It is disrespectful and wrong.
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written by amoke, July 15, 2009
written by amoke, July 15, 2009
Aisay, same thing la in NS camps. Teach the wrong thing about christianity and then try to mix it with Nabi ISa and other teachings to confuse. kah kah.
we also know of systematic conversions in Uitm and other public universities where students were given a target. I was asked on the 2nd day of orientasi if i wanted to convert. This is especially so with East malaysians.
we also know of systematic conversions in Uitm and other public universities where students were given a target. I was asked on the 2nd day of orientasi if i wanted to convert. This is especially so with East malaysians.
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written by hangkasturi, July 15, 2009
written by hangkasturi, July 15, 2009
when all malaysians - 100.0000000% - know that it is foolhardy in the eyes of the law to even attempt to convert a muslim in malaysia, how do the five muslim students think they are being converted? and are the authorities right to make arrests based on such reports? could it be trumped up attempts to get the students into trouble, or could it be just a furtherance of another fracas in the campus not too long ago? there may be social and religious misfits from both sides, but the authorities must be strictly objective in trying to solve the problem.
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written by Joe Soo, July 15, 2009
written by Joe Soo, July 15, 2009
When 2 Muslim reporters infiltrated a church & pretended to be Christians & then wrote provocative & insulting articles about Christianity. The reporters were only investigated even after a police report was made.
But when some Muslims students made a police report about some Christian students, they were immediately arrested. So where is the justice, due process & rule of law?
There seems to be 2 sets of laws in this country. One for the non-Muslims & another for Muslims. It's not hard to figure out which group is favored here.
But when some Muslims students made a police report about some Christian students, they were immediately arrested. So where is the justice, due process & rule of law?
There seems to be 2 sets of laws in this country. One for the non-Muslims & another for Muslims. It's not hard to figure out which group is favored here.
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written by koppercote, July 15, 2009
written by koppercote, July 15, 2009
Molineux,
when the time is right, you will hear that voice one day. some people receive it in a loving way, some in fearing, some in curiosity... whichever way it is, fear no more as you know it is your very own choice, and there is where you want to be
when the time is right, you will hear that voice one day. some people receive it in a loving way, some in fearing, some in curiosity... whichever way it is, fear no more as you know it is your very own choice, and there is where you want to be
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written by Johan Malaysia, July 16, 2009
written by Johan Malaysia, July 16, 2009
Either this incident is truth or a misunderstanding. I think Malaysian should get our terms clear...
Everyone has their rights to practise his/her faith/religion, and this including propagate/preaching to others without using any force, fear, public authority or public funds. Certainly they have the right to preach their religion to you, and you too have the right to close your door on them. Just like any political party are free to propagate their ideology, but should be clear that they are totally restrict from using force, fear, public authority or public funds.
For example, a teacher in public school should not propagate his/her religion/political ideology with his/her convenient/authority in school or by intimidating his/her student if they do not support or believe in him/her.
So, there are still many issues for us as Malaysian to look into. They are still many rampant misuses of public authority or public funds to just propagate certain political idea or certain religion only. And there are many laws and government regulation that are grossly unfair and unjust, or favoured to only certain political position or certain religion.
Everyone has their rights to practise his/her faith/religion, and this including propagate/preaching to others without using any force, fear, public authority or public funds. Certainly they have the right to preach their religion to you, and you too have the right to close your door on them. Just like any political party are free to propagate their ideology, but should be clear that they are totally restrict from using force, fear, public authority or public funds.
For example, a teacher in public school should not propagate his/her religion/political ideology with his/her convenient/authority in school or by intimidating his/her student if they do not support or believe in him/her.
So, there are still many issues for us as Malaysian to look into. They are still many rampant misuses of public authority or public funds to just propagate certain political idea or certain religion only. And there are many laws and government regulation that are grossly unfair and unjust, or favoured to only certain political position or certain religion.
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written by AnakMalaysia, July 16, 2009
written by AnakMalaysia, July 16, 2009
Do the police have nothing better to do? There are so much crime and rapes going on the street, and here they are ...waiting at the universities for some students and their friends.... The police seems to be over-zealous when it comes to Christians, or the Opposition......
Nothing wrong with Christians inviting their friends over, is there?
Is the law in Malaysia just? Any action taken over the 2 muslim journalists who intentionally go to a holy place of worship with mischief in their hearts????
Nothing wrong with Christians inviting their friends over, is there?
Is the law in Malaysia just? Any action taken over the 2 muslim journalists who intentionally go to a holy place of worship with mischief in their hearts????
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written by molineux, July 16, 2009
written by molineux, July 16, 2009
Quote: when the time is right, you will hear that voice one day. Some people receive it in a loving way, some in fearing, some in curiosity... whichever way it is, fear no more as you know it is your very own choice, and there is where you want to be –Unquote.
It is like saying:
You got to try to eat pork; it will change your life. Fear no more eat it, eat it!
Take of beef, we all enjoy it, why not you. Come take a bite, it is harmless. It is nirvana!
What arrogance and self-righteousness?
Preaching is offensive especially when targeting at the vulnerable youths when it can be the most effective and destructive. The methods used as admitted above- Appeal to love, appeal to fear, appeal to curiosity, appeal to rashness – that is how some people get syphilis too. Preachers stop at nothing that is why preaching must stop.
You have life experience to share. Share it by all means but stop preaching.
It is like saying:
You got to try to eat pork; it will change your life. Fear no more eat it, eat it!
Take of beef, we all enjoy it, why not you. Come take a bite, it is harmless. It is nirvana!
What arrogance and self-righteousness?
Preaching is offensive especially when targeting at the vulnerable youths when it can be the most effective and destructive. The methods used as admitted above- Appeal to love, appeal to fear, appeal to curiosity, appeal to rashness – that is how some people get syphilis too. Preachers stop at nothing that is why preaching must stop.
You have life experience to share. Share it by all means but stop preaching.
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written by swipenter, July 16, 2009
written by swipenter, July 16, 2009
Here they can preach to the world but you cant talk much less preach to them about any religion. It is a one way traffic no two ways about it.
We are not talking about fairness here bcos there is no fairness to start with in the first place. In this case handing out pamphlets can also be construed as preaching to them . I wonder these pamphlets have the caution "For Non Muslims Only" printed on it.
To many the very 'innocent' act of handing out pamphlets to the public is no big deal but some dont see it that way. For the 5 Muslim students to make a police report on this is a very disturbing manifestation of deep religious intolerance/polarisation in our country.
There are many instances of such pamphlets stuffed in my letterbox or evangelists ringing my door bell wanting me to give them 5 minutes of my time to listen to them. I just turn them down politely and for the pamphlets I sometimes read them to see what they have to say.
We are not talking about fairness here bcos there is no fairness to start with in the first place. In this case handing out pamphlets can also be construed as preaching to them . I wonder these pamphlets have the caution "For Non Muslims Only" printed on it.
To many the very 'innocent' act of handing out pamphlets to the public is no big deal but some dont see it that way. For the 5 Muslim students to make a police report on this is a very disturbing manifestation of deep religious intolerance/polarisation in our country.
There are many instances of such pamphlets stuffed in my letterbox or evangelists ringing my door bell wanting me to give them 5 minutes of my time to listen to them. I just turn them down politely and for the pamphlets I sometimes read them to see what they have to say.
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written by uji, July 16, 2009
written by uji, July 16, 2009
keep religion away from politics. Allah will put everybody in heaven. Allah love all his creations. Just do not make trouble in this world.
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written by Malaysian, July 16, 2009
written by Malaysian, July 16, 2009
Actually ah...how come the 5 Muslim students reported these students who went to visit them? Are they lacking of the knowledge of their own religion? Personally, reporting of these activities to the police tells me that they are insecure and have not been able to defend their faith even though they practice it. They don't know how else to stand up for their own lack of understanding, that's why they have to report to the police.
Non-Muslims get accusations all the time, and are ridiculed in schools and camps organised by the government, are asked to convert so often, but we have never reported anything to the police. Maybe it's ignorance, maybe it could also be that we know our faith enough to know that we are believing the right thing, therefore just anggap them as 'wind blowing'.
And isn't being passionate about something a good thing? All of us present our cases differently, and some of us choose harmful ways. But I don't see this visitation as harmful at all. Unless they brought weapons along with them and intended to use those weapons, which I absolutely doubt.
What say you?
Non-Muslims get accusations all the time, and are ridiculed in schools and camps organised by the government, are asked to convert so often, but we have never reported anything to the police. Maybe it's ignorance, maybe it could also be that we know our faith enough to know that we are believing the right thing, therefore just anggap them as 'wind blowing'.
And isn't being passionate about something a good thing? All of us present our cases differently, and some of us choose harmful ways. But I don't see this visitation as harmful at all. Unless they brought weapons along with them and intended to use those weapons, which I absolutely doubt.
What say you?
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written by JaguhKampung, July 16, 2009
written by JaguhKampung, July 16, 2009
I have a feeling the 5 Muslims students made the police report on purpose to give trouble to the 9 students knowing law is on their side. Just my hunch. We have seen enough non muslims students being bullied by muslims students in universities on you tube etc. Police should check facts before making arrest.
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written by kk, July 16, 2009
written by kk, July 16, 2009
these religion extremist should be arreted. they already operated many years in evil recruitment in the hostels of upm and ukm. their recruitmnet method is over too much. they slowly indoctrinate the lonely and frsehies, hoplessness and helplessness gradutes with subtle insinuations condeming, insulting buddist, taoist and traditonal chinese pratices; cannot knee to the parent, cannot pray to the ancestor and decease parent with joss-stick, cannot take part in decease parent funeral, cannot eat that food already offered for prayed,.......
they caused my family split up and disunity as no "six relationship recognie maintain" mean no recognise parent, sisters and borthers. looking for micheal chong and report to police.
they caused my family split up and disunity as no "six relationship recognie maintain" mean no recognise parent, sisters and borthers. looking for micheal chong and report to police.
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written by aaron4d, July 16, 2009
written by aaron4d, July 16, 2009
This is all nonsense! I'm sure those students meant no harm. A true christian never forces anyone to convert. It is up to the individual. These Muslim students just want to make life hard for non-Muslims, and the police are duly assisting them in it! shame on PDRM!! what about all those rapists and thieves out there?
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