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Johann Hari: Republicans, religion and the triumph of unreason

How do they train themselves to be so impervious to reality?


Sarah Palin really has claimed ? with a straight face ? that Barack Obama wants to kill her baby

Something strange has happened in America in the nine months since Barack Obama was elected. It has best been summarised by the comedian Bill Maher: "The Democrats have moved to the right, and the Republicans have moved to a mental hospital."

The election of Obama – a black man with an anti-conservative message – as a successor to George W. Bush has scrambled the core American right's view of their country. In their gut, they saw the US as a white-skinned, right-wing nation forever shaped like Sarah Palin.

When this image was repudiated by a majority of Americans in a massive landslide, it simply didn't compute. How could this have happened? How could the cry of "Drill, baby, drill" have been beaten by a supposedly big government black guy? So a streak that has always been there in the American right's world-view – to deny reality, and argue against a demonic phantasm of their own creation – has swollen. Now it is all they can see.

Since Obama's rise, the US right has been skipping frantically from one fantasy to another, like a person in the throes of a mental breakdown. It started when they claimed he was a secret Muslim, and – at the same time – that he was a member of a black nationalist church that hated white people. Then, once these arguments were rejected and Obama won, they began to argue that he was born in Kenya and secretly smuggled into the United States as a baby, and the Hawaiian authorities conspired to fake his US birth certificate. So he is ineligible to rule and the office of President should pass to... the Republican runner-up, John McCain.

These aren't fringe phenomena: a Research 200 poll found that a majority of Republicans and Southerners say Obama wasn't born in the US, or aren't sure. A steady steam of Republican congressmen have been jabbering that Obama has "questions to answer". No amount of hard evidence – here's his birth certificate, here's a picture of his mother heavily pregnant in Hawaii, here's the announcement of his birth in the local Hawaiian paper – can pierce this conviction.

This trend has reached its apotheosis this summer with the Republican Party now claiming en masse that Obama wants to set up "death panels" to euthanise the old and disabled. Yes: Sarah Palin really has claimed – with a straight face – that Barack Obama wants to kill her baby.

You have to admire the audacity of the right. Here's what's actually happening. The US is the only major industrialised country that does not provide regular healthcare to all its citizens. Instead, they are required to provide for themselves – and 50 million people can't afford the insurance. As a result, 18,000 US citizens die every year needlessly, because they can't access the care they require. That's equivalent to six 9/11s, every year, year on year. Yet the Republicans have accused the Democrats who are trying to stop all this death by extending healthcare of being "killers" – and they have successfully managed to put them on the defensive.

The Republicans want to defend the existing system, not least because they are given massive sums of money by the private medical firms who benefit from the deadly status quo. But they can't do so honestly: some 70 per cent of Americans say it is "immoral" to retain a medical system that doesn't cover all citizens. So they have to invent lies to make any life-saving extension of healthcare sound depraved.

A few months ago, a recent board member for several private health corporations called Betsy McCaughey reportedly noticed a clause in the proposed healthcare legislation that would pay for old people to see a doctor and write a living will. They could stipulate when (if at all) they would like care to be withdrawn. It's totally voluntary. Many people want it: I know I wouldn't want to be kept alive for a few extra months if I was only going to be in agony and unable to speak. But McCaughey started the rumour that this was a form of euthanasia, where old people would be forced to agree to death. This was then stretched to include the disabled, like Palin's youngest child, who she claimed would have to "justify" his existence. It was flatly untrue – but the right had their talking-point, Palin declared the non-existent proposals "downright evil", and they were off.

It's been amazingly successful. Now, every conversation about healthcare has to begin with a Democrat explaining at great length that, no, they are not in favour of killing the elderly – while Republicans get away with defending a status quo that kills 18,000 people a year. The hypocrisy was startling: when Sarah Palin was Governor of Alaska, she encouraged citizens there to take out living wills. Almost all the Republicans leading the charge against "death panels" have voted for living wills in the past. But the lie has done its work: a confetti of distractions has been thrown up, and support is leaking away from the plan that would save lives.

These increasingly frenzied claims have become so detached from reality that they often seem like black comedy. The right-wing magazine US Investors' Daily claimed that if Stephen Hawking had been British, he would have been allowed to die at birth by its "socialist" healthcare system. Hawking responded with a polite cough that he is British, and "I wouldn't be here without the NHS".

This tendency to simply deny inconvenient facts and invent a fantasy world isn't new; it's only becoming more heightened. It ran through the Bush years like a dash of bourbon in water. When it became clear that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction, the US right simply claimed they had been shipped to Syria. When the scientific evidence for man-made global warming became unanswerable, they claimed – as one Republican congressman put it – that it was "the greatest hoax in human history", and that all the world's climatologists were "liars". The American media then presents itself as an umpire between "the rival sides", as if they both had evidence behind them.

It's a shame, because there are some areas in which a conservative philosophy – reminding us of the limits of grand human schemes, and advising caution – could be a useful corrective. But that's not what these so-called "conservatives" are providing: instead, they are pumping up a hysterical fantasy that serves as a thin skin covering some raw economic interests and base prejudices.

For many of the people at the top of the party, this is merely cynical manipulation. One of Bush's former advisers, David Kuo, has said the President and Karl Rove would mock evangelicals as "nuts" as soon as they left the Oval Office. But the ordinary Republican base believe this stuff. They are being tricked into opposing their own interests through false fears and invented demons. Last week, one of the Republicans sent to disrupt a healthcare town hall started a fight and was injured – and then complained he had no health insurance. I didn't laugh; I wanted to weep.

How do they train themselves to be so impervious to reality? It begins, I suspect, with religion. They are taught from a young age that it is good to have "faith" – which is, by definition, a belief without any evidence to back it up. You don't have "faith" that Australia exists, or that fire burns: you have evidence. You only need "faith" to believe the untrue or unprovable. Indeed, they are taught that faith is the highest aspiration and most noble cause. Is it any surprise this then percolates into their political views? Faith-based thinking spreads and contaminates the rational.

Up to now, Obama has not responded well to this onslaught of unreason. He has had a two-pronged strategy: conciliate the elite economic interests, and joke about the fanatical fringe they are stirring up. He has (shamefully) assured the pharmaceutical companies that an expanded healthcare system will not use the power of government as a purchaser to bargain down drug prices, while wryly saying in public that he "doesn't want to kill Grandma". Rather than challenging these hard interests and bizarre fantasies aggressively, he has tried to flatter and soothe them.

This kind of mania can't be co-opted: it can only be overruled. Sometimes in politics you will have enemies, and they must be democratically defeated. The political system cannot be gummed up by a need to reach out to the maddest people or the greediest constituencies. There is no way to expand healthcare without angering Big Pharma and the Republicaloons. So be it. As Arianna Huffington put it, "It is as though, at the height of the civil rights movement, you thought you had to bring together Martin Luther King and George Wallace and make them agree. It's not how change happens."

However strange it seems, the Republican Party really is spinning off into a bizarre cult who believe Barack Obama is a baby-killer plotting to build death panels for the grannies of America. Their new slogan could be – shrill, baby, shrill.

j.hari@independent.co.uk

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Rightward, ho!
[info]boeticia wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 01:22 am (UTC)
Apparently, Americans with rightwing tendencies, aren't only gullible in politics, swallowing up half-truths
and downright lies, being served to them by Republican politicians they blindly admire and hero-worship, with the connivance of like-minded media owned by this, or that, smoothie publisher whose newspaper or TV newscast lives on twisting facts, then selling them as truth to the undiscerning public.
Freedom is a big word in the U.S., and that includes, freedom to be dolts. Freedom of thought also allows one to be a blatant racist.... everyone to his or her own bigoted opinion...the Constitution provides for it, you know!
In the healthcare reform debate that has broken out, President Obama was mistaken to be conciliatory
towards those with vested interests in the status quo..that is..NO reform, thus in turn, giving the impression of being apologetic about the whole "sorry" affair, and looking rather weak. He was elected by a majority who want change, and healthcare is probably the biggest issue. If he loses that fight for those millions of Americans needing medical care, he's bound to lose other issues, or else, end up with
hot-cold compromises.
The other side aren't holding back on their punches, and neither should the newly elected President-for-
change Obama.




























To All
[info]mackname wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 01:39 am (UTC)

As for integrity of Mr Obama;

Article 12
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.

And,
All Americans are entitled to National Health Service.

Article 21
(2) Everyone has the right of equal access to public service in his country.

Article 22
Everyone, as a member of society, has the right to social security and is entitled to realization, through national effort and international co-operation and in accordance with the organization and resources of each State, of the economic, social and cultural rights indispensable for his dignity and the free development of his personality.

Article 25
(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
(2) Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social protection.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

Re: To All
[info]boeticia wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 02:04 am (UTC)
All this sounds great, but how is it in practice....the world over?
Dear boeticia
[info]mackname wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 02:46 am (UTC)
I presume we are living in a critical movement of history: to make it or break it.
I prefer things go wisely in a peaceful manner.

Article 26
(2) Education shall be directed to the full development of the human personality and to the strengthening of respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms. It shall promote understanding, tolerance and friendship among all nations, racial or religious groups, and shall further the activities of the United Nations for the maintenance of peace.

Article 20.
(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly and association.
(2) No one may be compelled to belong to an association.

And finally
Article 1
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Education, unity, equality and individuality

http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/


Re: Dear boeticia
[info]boeticia wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 03:36 am (UTC)
The Declaration of Human Rights, and rightly so, should be appreciated by everyone. No one understands it more poignantly than people who live in despair because they have never had the luxury
of enjoying the benefits each Article assures them they are entitled to as their birthright.
I dare say, the Declaration of Human Rights is a declaration of love for Mankind.
But history has always been marked by critical movements such as wars...and still is doing so.
How can countries and people live in peace and prosperity when the same powerful member countries represented in the UN are also perpetrators of war through their production and export of armaments
especially to those impoverished regions of our imperfect world?
I, too, visualise people of all races sitting together side by side, and talking amicably in a civilised manner as their representatives do in their daily UN sessions, but alas, the reality tells us better.
Wow
[info]danshort wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 03:41 am (UTC)
It's unbelievable that this journalist didn't read the enlightened ones book.
It identifies he's a Marxist, Socialist, and believes in the islamic ideology of religion.
Guess it just goes to prove that government health care doesn�t work. Or else it confirms that they don�t have health care available in the United Kingdom.

Enjoyed the part about denying reality. Hearing the oxymoron of �ideologue conservative� it always amazes me. How anyone could be so mentally convoluted to believe the ideologue concepts of liberalism requires a much larger capacity of faith than most rational people posses.
Remember it was the leadership of the Democrats, Clinton, who first proposed that �is� depends on what you think �is� �is�. Huh?

No our leader isn�t a secret muslim, he admits he�s a muslim. And it is obvious he hates white people, he admits his background is from Bill Ayers, and Reverend Wright, who hates not only whites but America. He�s married to a woman who has publically stated she hates America.

Statistically our health care system is equal to the best in the world. Our health rates and our length of life statistics are equal to Sweden, when skewed for the ethnic groups. So don�t play misrepresentation without verification to make a position.

It�s interesting that your verification of statements are verified as coming from sources I�ve never heard of, nor even know how well know they are in America. It would require research to verify your statements. To adversely point out the incompetence, the racial bigotry, the socialistic desires and the Marxist future this man has for America can be confirmed from his own admission in the book he wrote.

And as always, it falls back to racism. American is not racist; no matter how damn hard the Democrats attempt to make it a point of discussion.

And as your leader Churchill so eloquently identified; �If your 20 and not a liberal, you have no heart. If you are 40 and are not a conservative, you have no brain.�

Your journalism has a moribund vision that someone who has experienced the world envies.
Enjoy your journey; I�d give a million to once again take it from idealist to realist once again.

Re: Wow
[info]boeticia wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 04:19 am (UTC)
If the newly-elected President in the White House were Caucasian, would you write about him the way
you do? Americans aren't racists - no, I suppose not.
Re: Wow - [info]fulkehunke - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 06:48 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]wakkowarner - Thursday, 20 August 2009 at 04:00 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]loftfunk - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 07:47 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]the100thidiot - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 08:24 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]paul999 - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 08:47 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]alanwoollcombe - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 09:29 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]tiitoye - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 10:09 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]sickofstupidity - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 11:37 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]nilcarbarundum - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 12:41 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]kuma2000 - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 03:40 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]eurobritish - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 04:34 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]nc_tom - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 05:02 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]mdm_singout - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 09:28 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]matvigour - Thursday, 20 August 2009 at 02:43 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]bobwood - Thursday, 20 August 2009 at 02:47 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]bobwood - Thursday, 20 August 2009 at 02:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]bobwood - Thursday, 20 August 2009 at 02:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Wow - [info]emcmu5vj - Thursday, 20 August 2009 at 03:12 pm (UTC) Expand
Unreason and Taser International
[info]nkitson wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 04:32 am (UTC)
Unreason is an epidemic, much worse than swine flu.

http://www.braidwoodinquiry.ca/report/
Re: Unreason and Taser International
[info]munderwood wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 05:41 am (UTC)
It just goes to show how warped some Americans' view of Obama has become that some seriously consider him to be a Marxist. We can dream, I suppose, but it's pure fantasy, as the man is a capitalist through and through. Do you really see Obama leading the socialist revolution, nationalising the commanding heights of the ecnomomy, and engaging in a major redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor? No - thought not. However, I suppose this all plays well to those who see even a smidgeon of reform as evidence of some dastardly conspiracy. Longer term, though, you might have to apologise to Johann for simply telling it as it is.
Wow!
[info]tovasco wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 07:16 am (UTC)
Glad you take time off from private security contracting to put us right.
But Obama had not cried Foul. LADIES SHAKING SPEAR WAS RIGHT Oh Women thy name is jelousy � tii duu
[info]famulla wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 07:33 am (UTC)
Similarly Hillary is prying into the imprisoned sick man who is nearly dead or dying and wants the UK to transfer him the sick man, poor , poor , poor sick mans to another prison and run for miles , chop the trees bring the branches for fire, prepare the meal s for 19,000 of his mates. lick the spoons shiny. Is that English Law? I do not know never been to the Hawaiian prison . They are great I am told. The sunsets from the north and you see dolphins and ostrich�s eggs, lions born every hour live in front of you Read on Partners in crime� Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said Tuesday that information her husband brought back from North Korea has been �extremely helpful� by providing a window ( XP professional) into what�s happening in the reclusive country. But it didn�t change the Obama administration�s position on North Korea, which is under pressure from the U.S. and its allies to end its nuclear weapons program. WHO says this?. �Our policy remains the same. Our policy is consistent,� she said. Hubby won the freedom of two imprisoned American journalists. �President Obama said he was gratified that the Americans had been safely reunited with their families,� Gibbs said. But Obama had not cried Foul. LADIES SHAKING SPEAR WAS RIGHT Oh Women thy name is jelousy � tii duum duumm tiiits dumm tii dimm ti duum
I thank you
Firozali A Mulla
Re: But Obama had not cried Foul. LADIES SHAKING SPEAR WAS RIGHT Oh Women thy name is jelousy � tii
[info]billious2 wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 03:42 pm (UTC)
No, its Scottish law. Ha! finally managed to make sense of one of your posts. Keep up the entertaining work >; )
Mental health language and its misuse
[info]chrisdanes wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 07:41 am (UTC)
'the US right has been skipping frantically from one fantasy to another, like a person in the throes of a mental breakdown.' I loved the substance of this article, but along with many sufferers of mental health problem (I have manic depression) I wish journalists would stop using others' unhappiness in their language and so help stop the perpetuation of myths about mental illness. It can be very hurtful for those us of us trying to live a normal lives - and forsooth, to be likened to the Republic Right....aaaaarrrrrggh
Free Republic
[info]chrisasmith wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 08:00 am (UTC)
Anyone in any doubt about the nutjob right in the US should check out this thread on the poisonous Free Republic site :

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2306351/posts?q=1&;page=9301
[info]thailandbobby wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 08:04 am (UTC)
This article sums up for me the insane reaction of many right wing conservatives in the US about the Dems Health Care Proposals. I had to move to Thailand because I was going to have to pay $350 a month, as a Kaiser Permanente retiree (of 18 years service) until age 65 to keep my employee health care (under the Cobra Plan). I opted not to pay this huge monthly amount and now and until age 65 I have no health care because of the high cost. After Obama's election I had renewed faith for Americans becoming sensible. I had hoped a health care option with a reasonable premium offered by the government would be approved by the congress and signed by Obama. Now I wonder if that feeling was premature!! Seems like the insane right wing still controls my country, regardless of the last election results. So I will remain in self imposed exile in Thailand, where healthcare is affordable.
US Media
[info]paul999 wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 08:23 am (UTC)
Fox and its brethen constantly winge on about the liberal bias of the media but the influence they have is massive. In 2004 they managed to convince the electorate that John Kerry with his 3 Purple Hearts, Brronze and Silver star who volunteered for Vietnam was the wimp and that G W Bush who had spent his time in the Reserve flying in Texas was the brave one. Impressive.
mad republicans
[info]72trailsofsmoke wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 08:34 am (UTC)
glad to see all those Republicans proving Johann clearly wrong. Not mad at all are they...?
faith!?
[info]pefra wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 08:51 am (UTC)
'"faith" � which is, by definition, a belief without any evidence to back it up'

you were doing so well up until this point. faith isn't, necessarily, belief without ANY evidence to back it up. on the contrary, i think belief without ANY evidence to back it up would be classed as insanity. faith is more like 'belief without SUFFICIENT evidence to prove true to a commonly held scientific standard' or something along those lines. i believe in God, i know there isn't sufficient 'scientific' evidence to prove that God exists, but my belief is based on my life experiences. this is evidence to me, just like the experiences i've had in my life provide evidence to me that emotions and love exist
Re: faith!?
[info]trypr wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 10:29 am (UTC)
Although I think Johann Hari's arguement overgeneralises, what you are saying does in fact illustrate his point.

Although I appreciate that belief may be based upon personal experience, in fact it usually relates to it, that does not make the experience "evidence" from a rational standpoint: and Johann Hari's arguement is about how confusion over this fact can lead to a distortion or rationale in other areas of life, although I do not think it is always the case.

You can't equate a belief in god with a "belief" in emotions, because they are not the same thing: the latter are something we experience and are, therefore, directly observable. God is not. Now we may look at the world and think, well, even if it's a grand scientific process I feel there is a purpose behind it and choose to believe such without seeking to rationalise why. It's a personal choice without consequence on others if you keep it simple, but that is not "evidence" in any rational sense.

There's a scientific point that is drilled into statisticians, researchers and people who study human behaviour especially, "correlation does not imply causation". The human mind looks for patterns in the world around us and it is prone to make errors and fabricate causal links where none exist. Superstition is built upon this phenomena, which occours throughout the animal kingdom, as a very basic form of trial and error learning.

There's a famous experiment where pigeons were randomly fed food from a dispenser and over time the pigeons began exhibiting repeated and odd behaviour that corresponded with how they were behaving at any time food was given, to the point at which they would repeat such behaviour often. When food was then randomly dispensed again it confirmed their behavioural "hypothesis", and the behaviour was reinforced.

Their behaviour was based on experience, it was not based upon the rational concept of evidence. What the pigeons were doing was, in a sense, confusing correlation with causation: coincidence, with a process that involves a cause and effect chain of consequence. The study was wittily entitled "Superstition in the Pigeon". You can read it here, if you like.

http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Skinner/Pigeon/

Pigeons are, of course, not self aware: they cannot analyse their thought process, as far as we can tell. Humans can but it's fair to say we often choose not to: it's evident that people do sometimes fall into the same "trap" as the pigeons, from non scientific historical observations about how the physical world "functions", in spite of the fact.

When we observe the world and conclude *from it* that there is a god, we are making a correlative assumption: such assumptions do not deal well with the random and probabilistic state of the physical world described by physics.

It's a little worrying when people choose to distinguish "scientific" evidence as something separate: and I suppose this is a consequence Johann Hari is concerned about. Science is the consequence of the rational process which describes the world around is; evidence is by definition "scientific" even if the term is misapplied. Without context it loses it's meaning; the idea which it is the purpose of a word to convey. To dismiss science and then eve attempt to phrase any logical arguement is inherently hypocritical.
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Barack Obama
[info]johnnywi wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 09:48 am (UTC)
Why would american's trade the best healthcare in the world for such a backward system as the NHS? I was diagnosed with non emergency heart disease in need of bypass. I was operated on the next afternoon by one of the finest heart doctors in America. On top of that the doctor was discussing the operation with me within 2 hours of diagnosis. In my city, which is home to the largest MRI manufacturer in the world, there are more of these machines than in the whole country of Canada. My friend who never wanted the expense of heathcare and was poor was operated for the same problem by the best doctor in my city within a week of diagnosis. He was covered under one of our fine charity programs. How do I know how good these doctors were? I have a dear friend who sells heart appliances, like heart valves, stints, dacron arterie replacements. My doctor and his hospital advertise on TV for business. There are so many modern heart hospitals in my city that they compete vigorously. My friend was operated at age 61. At age 65 his kidneys failed and he was given immediate dialiysis which would be avaible for the rest of his life paid for by the government as a right. At age 70 he was given a kidney transplant. He is now 77 and still in good health and working.

My cousin age 71 has been on the kidney dialysis for 4 years and can be on for life. He enjoys life and is in good spirits. He is as poor as a church mouse but has had in the last eight years colon cancer surgery, diabetic coma, laser treatment for near blindess, heart bypass surgery, diabetic amputation of one leg[ he was given a very expensive artificial leg], and amputation of part of his other foot. He is still mobile with the help of a cane. All these treatments were done in a very timely manner certainly within hours or days of diagnosis. Another friend has been on dialiysis for over 10 years and is 78 years old. He is quite wealthy but was covered by our fine medicare program and his assets haven't been depleated. I have heard of people being on dialysis for decades. There is nothing to compare with our system. Certainly not the NHS with it's long lines, assembly lines, and backward treatments. I met an retired english fire chief on a cruise. He told me he had to pay 25000 pounds to have a knee replaced or wait in line for five years. There is no retiree in america who couldn't get this procedure done for peanuts on our medicare system within a couple months at most. The reason Obama is in the toilet on this issue is because we have a vast information system in America that can't be stifled by our elites. It has nothing to with racism but everything to do his incompetence and inexperience. Mr Hari like most atheists is a bigot who doesn't know what he is talking about.
Re: Barack Obama
[info]hotrockhopper wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 10:33 am (UTC)
Medicare is "socialised" medicine, so you admit it works?
Re: Barack Obama - [info]paul999 - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 10:59 am (UTC) Expand
Re: Barack Obama - [info]boeticia - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 12:15 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Barack Obama - [info]sickofstupidity - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 12:30 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Barack Obama - [info]jasthom - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 05:05 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: Barack Obama - [info]nc_tom - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 05:39 pm (UTC) Expand
The dumbing-down of America
[info]ralph23 wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 10:20 am (UTC)
It does appear that the Republicans are leading the USA into a state of mass psychosis. I say this with great sadness, because like many British people I have a deep love for the country and its people, but the US increasingly appears to be in a state of terminal decline, slipping into an almost mediaeval primitivism. If the extreme anti-rationalist hysteria being drummed up by the extremists in the GOP takes permanent hold, the US will be indistinguishable from a fundamentalist theocracy.
Are they from another planet?
[info]t_keane wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 10:30 am (UTC)
Yet another incisive and illuminating piece from Johann.

Every time I see or hear Republicans spouting out their angry, greedy drivel, which disturbingly has framed the mainstream political (and increasingly our social) philosophy in the UK over the last 30 years I despair for reason and wonder how people can believe this stuff. I wonder whether Obama's approach to rise above their current hyperbole might be the best option, if only to avoid walking headlong in to the Republican's territory, i.e. a street fight. That seemed to be his strategy pre-election and maybe he's sticking with it.

There seems to me to be something quite disturbing about these people psychologically in that their whole world view appears based on confrontation, anger, demonisation, downright distortion and lies.

Most worryingly of all I see the UK becoming more Americanised by the day with increasing anger, greed and garbage culture, whether it be Big Brother, cosmetic surgery, accident insurance claims, war games advertised to our children as entertainment (any wonder so many are carrying knives now?!) or Jeremy Clarkson, it's all trash, it's all damaging and it's all 'from over there'.

Contrast this with the wisdom and common sense of the likes of Johann, Caroline Lucas (Green Party), Christine Lagarde (French Economic Minister) and others, and it's easy to think the Republicans are on a different planet...if it was only thus.
Re: Are they from another planet?
[info]t_keane wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 11:15 am (UTC)
For Clarkson read 'Big toy culture'
Re: Are they from another planet? - [info]sickofstupidity - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 12:36 pm (UTC) Expand
Turkies voting for Christmas....
[info]colkitto wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 10:32 am (UTC)
It�s a wearisome reflection, in the year of their Lord 2009; a great many people from the wealthiest nation on earth are still suffering from a curable condition that has at times crippled mankind since he began to consider thought. Ignorance continues to haunt and blight lives. Some of us, despite our own portion of this malady, can see its full measure of devotion, as people die in droves, abuse, maim, exclude, murder and bomb each other, principally because of it. What is immoral to humanity, in this instance, is when the better informed use their knowledge to mercilessly exploit the weaker minded or lesser educated, in retain an economical monopoly directly over people�s health and dignity. It can be demonstrated that Religion is ignorance with order of a kind, albeit it cemented by ignorance. Palin, dumb as a stump as she is, knows, only Religion could ever get her elected again, as an increasing number endeavours to shake itself from the tentacles of what is nothing more than crucifying fear of the unknown. Witchcraft still rules vast portions of American life, elections are decided on it.
To witness, piss poor Americans raging against reform that they so desperately require, is, as the man said, enough to make you weep.
Re: Turkies voting for Christmas....
[info]sickofstupidity wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 01:13 pm (UTC)
Well put, colkitto.

I disagree with you on one point, however; the condition of religious derangement you describe is not, in my experience, curable. We can only vaccinate people against it, but once infected they are lost.
Exactly!
[info]ejh16 wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 10:36 am (UTC)
"How do they train themselves to be so impervious to reality? It begins, I suspect, with religion. They are taught from a young age that it is good to have "faith" � which is, by definition, a belief without any evidence to back it up. You don't have "faith" that Australia exists, or that fire burns: you have evidence. You only need "faith" to believe the untrue or unprovable. Indeed, they are taught that faith is the highest aspiration and most noble cause. Is it any surprise this then percolates into their political views? Faith-based thinking spreads and contaminates the rational."

Excellent point explained nicely, Mr Hari. http://theunpeople.blogspot.com/
Principled faith or wretched fate
[info]nabil2000 wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 11:01 am (UTC)
Let's give them (Republicans and Democrat conservatives) Faith then:
It was bound to happen, the big guns of the insurance sector in a show down with Obama.
Only here, very revealing that their minions are the GOP, most of whom supposedly of good christian character who profess helping thy neighbor, especialy when in need (and when one brethren is more in need than when sick or injured).
American Republicans, and Conservatives, Jesus of Nazareth is ashamed of you,
and behold lest the curse of The God befalls you...
Face the snakes amongst you and root them out, you have a duty to your vulnerable citizens, share the bounty that God gives you before you lose it too...
Well, hypocrites (those who say and do not do) rarely listen, unless and only when the torment affects them directly.
As for the NHS, you have no idea, we are lucky to have it here...
and those who put it down talk with little knowledge...
"Nothing new under the sun" - King Solomon
Sooner or later, and like the financial sector, the private health care insurance sector will unravel and start crumbling, and then they will come grovelling and ask for big government to the rescue (socialism for the fat cats) only then, I hope they will receive a dose of their own medicine and get fully nationalised...
Are not Doctors supposed to uphold a Hippocratic oath that they will not let down any patient coming under their care, clearly, the insurers constitute unwanted static that have perverted that beautiful and noble profession.
Very sad to have to bow down to such greed, lack of concern for human suffering, and darkness of spirit.
America is not yet ready to face its own demons, this is why it has been busying itself outside its core, and in that process, it might lose its soul, and its link with The God of Mercy... May The God have pity on the righteous among them...
because all civilisations which ignored the plight of their weak, sick and disadvantaged and refused to give them a fair share of the bounty that they received were ultimately caused to perish, and so their rulers... Babylon, Sumer, Egyptian Dynasties, Hellenic Kingdoms, Roman Empire, Islamic Expansions, Ottoman Empire,... etc...
This is Faith or... more appropriately (deserved) Fate...
Not us ...
[info]andrewholt wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 11:05 am (UTC)

Of course we civilised british would never be "gullible in politics, swallowing up half-truths
and downright lies, being served to them by ... politicians they blindly admire"

The problem with freedom is that people will do whatever they want with it.

Obama's problem is that he campaigned on a single concept CHANGE, every speech, poster & report trumpeted the word. I don't recall many description's of the detail. Now the US is beginning to see what he wants to change and they don't like it.
What?
[info]bobav wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 11:14 am (UTC)
You mean my weekly prayer group dedicated to bringing on the rapture isn't working?

You're just jealous because you don't understand what my minister is saying when he speaks in tongues, or when he asks for forgivness for buggering the 15 year old boys in his Christian Camping and Baptism Club.

Don't forget, Democrat Senator Baucus from Montana, who headed up the Senate committee to explore healthcare reform, gets a lion's share of his campaign funding from the healthcare industry, and routinely denied a seat on that committee to any proponent of a single payer system... so i guess our prayer vigils and rending of garments worked after all! The bit about the death panels were juat Jesus way of putting icing on the cake! Praise the Lord! Hubbidybubbidy loobba scooba intafornico lustcosta in my reer chasm of poopy scoopy! Amen!
Bro, Tell me something NEW
[info]mucho_bueno wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 11:24 am (UTC)
Johann, Sometimes when I read your stuff it feels as though I'm watching one of those silent 1920s Hollywood westerns, in which to remind the audience who the good guys are, they were given white hats to wear, while the baddies wore black ones. In your world, it's fairly obvious that Republicans are wearing the black hats. It's all a little too simplistic & way too predictable.

As a reader, it feels as though you hang out with so many like-minded people, drinking soya milk lattes and nibbling on organic tofu, that your world view has now shurnk to such an extent that it's affected the credibility of your commentaries.

It'd be really nice to see you be a little more adventurous and perhaps take a look at the failure of the Obama Administration to live up to its relativerly unambitious promise of being a transparent, unifying Government, rather than just another divisive one, and the reasons for this, especially in the wake of the polarizing Bush years.

To help get you started, the reasons have nothing to do with either the Republicans, or any gun-totin', bible-bashing, racist, right-wing fundamntalists. You might want to begin by taking a look at why that huge voting block of Independents who voted for him, last November, have subsequently lost their faith in the flip-flopping Messiah and abandoned him. If you think I'm telling lies [or "mis-speaking" as the Obama Administration prefers to say] then please take a look at the Prez's latest poll ratings for evidence of this. The Independents hold lots of clues, but they're not the whole story.

Bro, you've got to look way beyond the Huffingtong Post & Jon Stewart for a much broader & far more rounded perspective on American politics. Champagne Socialism really is so last century. Isn't it time that you moved on?
[info]chochokeira wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 11:26 am (UTC)
Johan, I've read the posts of far too many insightful Republican (and Democrat) bloggers to accept your crass and blanket stereotyping of Republicans above as true. Yes, there are crass posts by some Republicans, but I've read as many crass posts by Democrats. And I've seen as many critiques of Obama from Democrat Huffington Post as I've seem on Republican blogs. If your post attempted to be more objective you would not need to take refuge in crass stereotyping.

Are you suggesting that America needs a near bankrupt NHS? It's my view that, before we British adopt the superior position that you adopt in this post, we need to address the many failures of our own NHS.

Issues such as our abysmal survival rates. Of the 200,000 people who die of strokes and cancer here every year, it's estimated that some 30,000 would survive if they lived anywhere else in northern Europe. UK's Poor treatment standards kill thousands unnecessarily annually. A substantial proportion of them would have lived if treated in the US where survival rates are also far superior to ours. Then there are the estimated 8,000 to 10,000 deaths in UK from C Diffilicile and other killer infections.

Do you remember the Panorama NHS investigations? Part of the transcript form 'The National Homes Swindle' 5:03:06

�thousands of people who are very ill have had to sell their family home because the NHS in England and Wales has unlawfully denied them the free care they were entitled to...William Hancock is 91 and terminally ill with bone and prostate cancer. The NHS, under pressure to cut waiting lists, wants beds freed up fast. They want William Hancock out and into a private nursing home where he�ll have to pay hundreds of pounds a week for his own care. Janice Turton (his daughter):

"one of the nursing staff there and they said to me that: �he�s blocking the bed, we have other people wanting to come here.� I thought it was appalling. I thought the NHS looked after you when you were terminally ill. I had no idea they didn�t. It�s been a huge shock to me to find this out."...[William's daughters] have had to put their father�s house up for sale" I believe William died a few weeks later. Do you call that universal health care?

Do you also recall Panorama's "Who'd be an NHS Whistleblower?", about the appalling treatment of dying people in one NHS hospital - said by Panorama to be not atypical of other NHS hospitals? It seems to me that we in UK need to put our own house in order before we preach to Americans about the humane system of healthcare we claim to have.


[info]chochokeira wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 11:42 am (UTC)
Johan, I've read the posts of far too many insightful Republican (and Democrat) bloggers to accept your crass and blanket stereotyping of Republicans above as true. Yes, there are crass posts by some Republicans, but I've read as many crass posts by Democrats. And I've seen as many critiques of Obama from Democrat Huffington Post as I've seem on Republican blogs. If your post attempted to be more objective you would not need to take refuge in crass stereotyping.

Are you suggesting that America needs a near bankrupt NHS? It's my view that, before we British adopt the superior position that you adopt in this post, we need to address the many failures of our own NHS.

Issues such as our abysmal survival rates. Of the 200,000 people who die of strokes and cancer here every year, it's estimated that some 30,000 would survive if they lived anywhere else in northern Europe. UK's Poor treatment standards kill thousands unnecessarily annually. A substantial proportion of them would have lived if treated in the US where survival rates are also far superior to ours. Then there are the estimated 8,000 to 10,000 deaths in UK from C Diffilicile and other killer infections.

Do you remember the Panorama NHS investigations? Part of the transcript form 'The National Homes Swindle' 5:03:06

�thousands of people who are very ill have had to sell their family home because the NHS in England and Wales has unlawfully denied them the free care they were entitled to...William Hancock is 91 and terminally ill with bone and prostate cancer. The NHS, under pressure to cut waiting lists, wants beds freed up fast. They want William Hancock out and into a private nursing home where he�ll have to pay hundreds of pounds a week for his own care. Janice Turton (his daughter):

"one of the nursing staff there and they said to me that: �he�s blocking the bed, we have other people wanting to come here.� I thought it was appalling. I thought the NHS looked after you when you were terminally ill. I had no idea they didn�t. It�s been a huge shock to me to find this out."...[William's daughters] have had to put their father�s house up for sale" I believe William died a few weeks later. Do you call that universal health care?

Do you also recall Panorama's "Who'd be an NHS Whistleblower?", about the appalling treatment of dying people in one NHS hospital - said by Panorama to be not atypical of other NHS hospitals? It seems to me that we in UK need to put our own house in order before we preach to Americans about the humane system of healthcare we claim to have.


Right. Put you money where you mouth is.
[info]steerpike66 wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 04:38 pm (UTC)
Buy a tickey to the USA, do NOT buy travel insurance and then break a leg. You'll be in the poorhouse before Christmas.

Guaranteed.
(no subject) - [info]jasthom - Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 05:24 pm (UTC) Expand
Q - [info]had_it - Thursday, 20 August 2009 at 05:22 am (UTC) Expand
Sadly, Obama will probably be beaten by the rednecks next time
[info]whostoletyke wrote:
Wednesday, 19 August 2009 at 11:50 am (UTC)
It's true what they say, the devil really does have the best tunes, and the rednecks will only sing all the louder as Amerika marches towards its next election while the Obama camp tries to play fair. What did Norman Mailer say about Amerika being in a pre-fascist state? A fundamental symptom of this is propaganda and the need to generate masses of it.
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