I was a member of the Sea Organization for twenty-seven years. I learned how to audit and troubleshoot virtually any technical problem at every level of Scientology. For years prior to leaving the Church I was regularly called upon by its top-ranking members to resolve its toughest and, in many instances, most high profile cases.
Having dug myself out of the dark pit where many who leave the Church land, I began lending a hand to others similarly situated.
A lot of folks seem to be suffering from the inculcated idea that once they depart or cease to slavishly follow every arbitrary dictate they automatically forfeit any spiritual gains they may have attained along the road. Natively conscientious as most beings are, such an evaluation can begin a pernicious dwindlng spiral of self-invalidation and unhappiness.
I understand this phenomenon and the internal dichotomies extant within the organization that bring it about. In the process of reversing the decline in myself and in others certain lessons were learned that might be of some assistance to those who have experienced the same.
I offer a simple program of rehabilitation of previously recognized abilities and education on universal truths and principles of spiritual growth. I do not offer a substitute for Scientology nor am in competition with the Church. I am only offering to share all the skills I have learned – from a wide variety of sources – to help those in need who once formally participated in Scientology but who now hold no hope nor intention of ever seeking help from the Church.
My services are peformed in a relaxing, bayside environment with unlimited space and fresh South Texas air. Reasonably priced accommodations – which include plenty of Southern hospitality – are conveniently located within a short, pleasant walking distance.
My services cost whatever you think they are worth, within your means, after completion. I ask that you pay me one-half of whatever you determine that value to be when you head back home. Then, if after a month you believe your original estimation was correct you can send me the other half, or not. It is entirely up to you.
For reservations: sthtexlensman@aol.com
81 responses so far ↓
Anita Warren // July 23, 2009 at 12:53 am |
You are awesome Marty. I wish you much success. If you ever come to WA state, come visit us.
martyrathbun09 // July 23, 2009 at 2:28 pm |
Hey Anita. Best of luck in the great north west.
Jill Coleman // July 26, 2009 at 4:28 am |
I am glad I found your site. I was never on staff, and didn’t get a lot of auditing, (good I guess), but it really makes me feel warm inside to know that you are out there with your valuable knowledge and help.
I wish you affluence in all you do!
If you ever come near Victorville CA, stop in and say Hi!!
Linda McGinley // August 18, 2009 at 6:14 am |
Hi Marty,
I don’t believe we ever spoke to each other but I knew who you were by sight. August 89, I left the SO from Int. DM’s hazing antics were just beginning on the crew, even back then and scared the living s….t out of me, so I left! I got back on lines in Sac in 1993, thinking I was far enough afield to be out of this guy’s influence. Ha!
By a series of events starting about 6 weeks ago, I was apprised of what has been going on since I left in 1989. I was astounded. After much agonizing soul searching I decided to leave the C of S. I haven’t been back since. I just listened to your entire interview on TampaBay.com. Well done and thank you thank you thank you!
Would you please contact me via my email address. I would like to speak to you about John McGinley.
Tku!
Linda
Michael // August 21, 2009 at 12:00 am |
Great to see you out and about.
Wishing you every success and further movement up the bridge!
jim // September 1, 2009 at 2:24 am |
http://www.casp.net/cases/calcases.html
Marty, you may want to consider this–I know a lawyer who specializes in anti-SLAPP lawsuits.
Deborah Turner // September 10, 2009 at 4:54 pm |
I am the sister of Becky Hay ( formerly Becky Pook) who was in SCN and OSA for 38 years. I am currently taking care of her. Do you have any idea what was done to her? She is with me, out and safe but we need help. She is very wounded. ANY information would be very helpful.
martyrathbun09 // September 10, 2009 at 5:19 pm |
I’ll email you.
an ex // October 23, 2009 at 10:04 am |
Hi Deborah,
I just read about your note re Becky. All I will say here is that we know each other and I know of her little red sports car. Can we somehow get in touch please.
an ex
nate and mona larson // September 13, 2009 at 1:17 am |
omg… please help us get out daughter out of La sea-org… she has been there since she was barely 16… 9 years ago we have had no contact for 6 years..
her name is SAVANNAH LARSON…
PLEASE…….HELP US
Pedro Perez // September 15, 2009 at 6:44 am |
Dear Mark,
I am very sorry to hear that you left the church; I admired you and had you in high steem, but things have changed.
I know for a fact that some things are not right within the church but LRH entrusted us to make them right and you failed at it.
I thought you´d be stronger and help the good guys correct the bad things. But much to me regret you were weak and bailed.
I wish you success in your game but you know you belong in the major leagues and so I hope some day you come to your senses and get back into the real game, and doing good things where it really counts.
ARC, Your friend
martyrathbun09 // September 15, 2009 at 1:57 pm |
Pedro, consider this from Orwell’s 1984:
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
We’ll be here for you when you come to your senses.
wcoastt // September 18, 2009 at 2:33 am |
Hi Marty,
I emailed you a few days ago, but I think maybe I didn’t write it correctly. I’ve been in Scientology for 38 years, finished Solo I a few years ago and after 3 intensives in the Preps HGC I decided that perhaps someone wasn’t listening to me.
Anyway, I haven’t been back since and I feel a lot better. Could you please send any info on the definition of a floating needle being changed? I’m very interested.
Thanks,
wcoastt
Koos // September 29, 2009 at 7:10 pm |
I love the new picture!
Mickey // October 4, 2009 at 7:04 pm |
Marty,
I’m starting to pass along your site to a few formers who have been out of the info loop as to what’s happening with the church.
On the other blogging sites of former members, off to the right side of the page is an “Archive” category that allows one to go back month-by-month, start from the very first posting and come forward to the present ones. It’s a great way to see how the blogger has progressed rather than start from the most current one and work back. Many times a reference is made to an earlier posting.
So, I’m just asking…..can you add this archive finding by month feature to your great site? I’m being a little selfish here as well ’cause it’s been a pain in the rear to have to go to the “older entries” link at the very bottom left of each page just to get back to your first post!! Thanks for considering.
martyrathbun09 // October 4, 2009 at 8:37 pm |
Mickey,
Thanks. I started to organize a bit by categories. Let me finish that over the next several days and tell me how that works. The categories will be over to the right hand side. Then you can pretty easily get those in date sequence.
Mickey // October 4, 2009 at 9:52 pm |
Thanks Marty….I saw your categories. For me anyway, the categories are OK, but would not be my first choice if I wished to go back in archives because how would I know with accuracy in which category an article had I read might be? Also, many times I’ll want to go to previous months and see if there was a post I might have missed if I am following and reading a blog.
If you check out what Geir has done with his archive category, it uses a pull down menu showing the monthly options, rather than taking up real estate on the page by listing them outright.
Perhaps offering both a Category and Archive option would be the best idea!!
martyrathbun09 // October 4, 2009 at 11:30 pm |
All right. Whether I am going to be able to get to this soon, I am not sure.
Hatshepsut // October 5, 2009 at 2:40 am |
Hey,
I left in 1982 after finance police abuses. I am pretty much de-prorammed by now after 17 active yrs inside. Do you have a team with you to help you help others, like case supervisors etc from the freezone? I mean I had purchased LOTS of processing at Flag etc. Certain charges that get originated are just stonewalled as settin up too much of a security breach.
Blog Mexicano para Scientologists de buena voluntad. « Winsmexico's Blog // October 5, 2009 at 10:25 pm |
[...] Marty Rathburn: Veteran S.O. executive and former President of RTC´s Inspector general Network. http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/about/ [...]
Koos // October 11, 2009 at 4:09 am |
I love the rotation of pictures (your wife is stunning), as it gives us a little more insight to your new world.
Maxim Zbitnoff // October 15, 2009 at 7:44 pm |
I read the rundown on your self guided training. Anyone who can do the meter dating drill flawlessly I’m ready to worship as a god. I enjoyed your approach to training on your own terms. I think my gradient was skipped somewhere around listen style auditing without a meter or maybe comfortably being in a room with another person.
ObserverTyler // October 16, 2009 at 6:22 pm |
Dear Mark,
As a 30+ year Scientologist, and a former S.O. member of 10 years, I am finding this data you are putting out quite interesting. I had seen the Anonymous crap and bagged that as the garbage it is, but then a fellow Scientologist sent me this link and I was amazed. I want the church mgmt sorted out and back on track. I am fed up with the constant fund raising however the Ideal Orgs make sense long term. But this latest OTC order to get public to Flag for Grades (Christ!!) – what a sham. I hope somehow you and others like you (NOT anti-Scn) can cause enough havoc that some inside will get the message and (inside) cause a handling that will not only resolve the bad PR we now see, but produce an Amnesty for those that were erroneously ousted.
On another note: since you seem to have good connections, can you find out (1) where Pat Broeker or and get from him what actually happened when LRH died and if LRH put a/g in writing re his successor, (2) what is happening with Debbie Cook, former CO FLB, and (3) what happened that caused DM’s older brother to route off staff? Lastly, I saw the picture of you with Rinder and Koon, but noticeably DeVocht is absent – any reason for that. And lastly, what will it take for someone as “known” as Mithoff, LeServe, Yager or Starkey to come out and make some noise. I read all this “beating” stuff and while it seems credible, since so many have attested to it, it is still hard to fathom. So I have to believe that if it is all that bad, that someone will finally do something effective inside to get it resolved. Afterall, it seems that DM just took over and ousted Broeker who has dissappeared from sight.
Christie // October 22, 2009 at 1:36 am |
I just had to say, that I really like your secret happy face on the right side of the blog. =)
Koos // October 24, 2009 at 3:03 am |
LOL Christie. I never noticed that before.
Christie // October 28, 2009 at 3:00 am |
Yeah – It makes me smile. I see it every time!
Michael Henderson // October 24, 2009 at 5:03 pm |
Marty, I support your efforts to expose what is happening within the CofS. After 35 years in, and working myself up to OT 8, Flag trained Class IV, and IAS Patron , I went back into the Sea Org briefly at FSO in 2005. The feel had changed so much, and the organization seemed intent on grinding people up and spittting them out. My wife and I left within 4 months. We were secretly declared, quietly. After voluntarily disconnecting from my SP declared father for 4 years, starting in 2001, I reconnected, and enjoyed a normal relationship with him once again until his death in 2007. Since 2005, I have had no comm from my brother, 4 sisters, Mother, 22 nieces and nephews. I told my story to whoever would listen. Then, Chuck Beatty introduced me to John Sweeney of the BBC, and to date that episode in which we appeared has been viewed by over 7 million people. The Truth Rundown will have more than ripple effect. It is more like a tidal wave. You and the ‘collection of lunatics’ you were able to ‘gather and brainwash’ are having a huge effect on the reign of terror DM has been conducting. Paul Haggis has made a bold, courageous stand. I admire his principles. I, too had many gay Scientologist friends who made case gain and were friends despite sexual preference. At the end of his lifetime, LRH realized homosexuality would only be addressed successfully after resolution of the pre-OT case, and application of advanced OT levels. The reference, although it does not address homosexuality directly, is “The Nature of a Being”. Sex is mostly a non-factor before that. Keep doing what you are doing. I can’t wait for the next chapter to be written.
martyrathbun09 // October 24, 2009 at 5:05 pm |
Thank you Michael. I appreciate it.
Grady Broyles // October 26, 2009 at 4:09 pm |
You are an elegant writer. Your style and form are so wonderful to read that you make complicated multifaceted concepts easily digestible. Thank you for your insights. I’ve never been in the church but find your experiences and insights useful anyway in my own search for truth and happiness.
helitrobus // October 26, 2009 at 5:02 pm |
Marty,
I don’t think you realize how amazing you are just yet. Please keep going with your feelings and don’t be afraid to search deeper than you have already done.
Impres // October 27, 2009 at 2:36 pm |
Mr Rathbun, I am glad that you got out of the Co$ still healthy.
I hope sometime in the future you can take the additional step to realise that Scientology is bunk – the problems with the Co$ are not due to bad management, or failure to KSW or application of incorrect tech. The whole thing is built on lies and Hubbard’s fantasies.
nate and mona larson // October 27, 2009 at 4:20 pm |
Marty… wanted to say thanks so much…
I’m sure your blog is one of the reasons Nate got a phone call from his daughter Savannah Larson last night..
(la-org for 9 years no physical contact for 6 years)
she tells us she should be getting some time off in November…. FINALLY…….
all out love
nate and mona
ps..we may not agree with everything you believe…
but you are still a hero in our eyes….
Ernie Ward // October 27, 2009 at 6:58 pm |
Hi Marty!
I know you don’t remember me; but, I do remember you. I have always considered you to be one of the most ethical Beings I have ever met.
I second the comments from “Observertyler”. I have wondered where Debbie Cook, Mike Rinder, Ray Mithoff and many of the people I came to trust and care about as Execs went. As well as how the heck they are doing.
I happened onto Amy’s video and was amazed. I had always felt that something was not right at Int and there it was. I knew Matt very well and remember Amy from when she first got to Flag. I had wondered where she had gone.
After I routed out of the SO, I lost contact with everyone at Flag – just cut all ties even though I still miss many of them. 20+ years in the SO and I know full well the horror stories and some of them I experienced myself.
I was black-balled; and from what I can tell, was considered NCG. Who the hell knows or even cares anyway?
Please email me.
Please note that I still KNOW the truths and tenets of Scientology to be TRUE beyond any question. My problem was and has always been with Mangement (or should I say mis-management) that I kept being faced with.
Management using threats and creating a situation whereby control is gained through fear is not management – it is Fascism.
And you can forward to Amy this addendum:
The stats started falling in the ’80’s on an Int level simply because “Ron’s brand of Scientology” was not being applied. The greenback became more important than helping salvage Beings and salve the wounds of Man. “You can fool some of the people some of the time… “. Nothing could be done to correct the situation as “Napoloen” could not be ousted from the throne.
J. Keyser // October 27, 2009 at 7:35 pm |
Hi Marty,
I left Int Base in 1991, routed out on some clean up of staff on base. I have been reading the St Pete Times interviews and your blog. To say that I am in utter shock is an understatement….I know what you and others say to be true, as it was just starting during my time there. I have always had a deep respect for you and recent events have not diminished that in any way. Thank you for speaking up. Here is hoping and praying that this mess gets cleaned up and help is gotten to those who still need it.
Thanks again, my best to you
paul katz // October 27, 2009 at 8:11 pm |
it’s so nice to have a site where ex-scn’s are not dramatizing their missed withholds! Long live LRH.
cinda // October 27, 2009 at 9:43 pm |
Marty, is that a Shiba-Inu I saw you with on your rowboat? my husband caught that first thing on the Nightline interview.
martyrathbun09 // October 27, 2009 at 10:25 pm |
Good eye, yes. Mixed with a Chihuahua. Go figure. But, she is as sweet as they come.
Bill // October 28, 2009 at 7:28 am |
I’m an outsider looking in and the whole thing is spooky.
I watched the BBC and Nightline reports and it was an eye opener.
I see several of the top people have left but they have manipulation down pretty well.
Their Behavior in the reports especially the BBC report is actually hurting them.
Do they not see that or are they that fouled up?
What will the head guy do if the defections continue?
He doesn’t seem to wired all that tight.
Any chance this guy goes Jim Jones?
nate and mona larson // October 28, 2009 at 5:09 pm |
I hope everyone caught NBC this morn …
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/
scroll down to Paul’s story..
the look on Matt’s face is priceless…
PAUL YOU ROCK….
all out love
nate and mona
Koos // October 28, 2009 at 5:49 pm |
I read your earlier post Mona and am so happy for you!
lorraine // October 28, 2009 at 10:06 pm |
Hello~I am frustrated and hope someone can give me some advice here. I am receiving approx. 8 phone calls a week from various (TN, FLA, CA) Scientology offices asking when I am attending another class. If I don’t answer the phone they will call back at least 4 times until I pick up and tell them I am not interested anymore (briefly dabbled 15yrs ago~moved many times since and many states and still they tracked me down!) What can I say (I know vocabulary is of utmost importance to a scientologist) to make the calls stop? I asked them to not call back, both kindly and then rudely. I’ve resorted to yelling when they only ignore and call back the very next day from the same area code! It feels like they’re mocking me by continuing this harassment. Does anyone know of anything I can say to have them know I am not interested. I am contemplating discontinuing phone service because this is such a frustrating and harassing problem. And what’s so maddening is sometimes THEY get an attitude with ME~any suggestions would be welcome.
OptOut // October 29, 2009 at 9:51 am |
Your experience is typical. The organization operates on passive-agressive harassment. Any individual calling you does not care if you’re not interested. They’re drones trained to keep calling you in a “new instance of time” – justifying complete disregard for your request, pretending you never asked, and repeatedly asking for what THEY want until they get it – you back in.
Unfortunately, non-profit organizations (including the Church of Scientology) are not covered by the National Do Not Call Registry.
See “How to get off Scientology mailing lists
and stop them calling you” at
http://www.whyileftscientology.com/article-howtostopgettingcalls.html for a phone number and name in LA to call and ask them to remove you from all internal call lists.
I read on another site the person at this position was actually very helpful whereas all other avenues are not. So hopefully she’s still there and hasn’t been overwhelmed by the many frustrated and angry folks tired of being harassed by CO$ and demanding off their lists!
If you change your phone number, they’ll hunt you down again eventually. You could use caller id or screen calls with an answering machine and never answer any call if you don’t know who it is. Turn off the ringer or unplug it whenyou don’t wantto be disturbed. They’ll still call and leave messages, but it’s a waste of time to talk to them.
It’s harrassment if they keep calling after you’ve clearly asked them not to contact you, so maybe your phone company or the FCC can advise how they deal with such repeated calls.
John McMaster - not // October 29, 2009 at 8:01 pm
After I left the CO$, I kept getting mailings for my wife and me sent to my parents home, (with whom I was trying to re-connect).
I solved the problem of the mailings, after their refusal (at least that was pretty much on policy) to take me off, by taping the return post-paid envelope they included to to a box containing either old phone books or bricks, with a note politely requesting they take me off their list, and pointing out how much postage they had to pay to receive my “present”, and how little they were making as staff. They took me off the list. I don’t know for sure (as I no longer receive mailings), but I don’t think they use the post paid return envelopes anymore. : )
Mark Bunker // October 28, 2009 at 11:01 pm |
Sign up for the Do Not Call Registry:
https://www.donotcall.gov/
When they call, tell them you are listed and if they call again, they will be reported.
Mari Stevens // October 29, 2009 at 12:42 pm |
I’ve watched Co$ for many, many years, waiting for their cult to be destroyed. Finally, I do believe the process has begun. I applaud and support all of you who have found the strength to stand up in the face of evil. It is the courage of these convictions that will continue to undermine the evil that we know as the Church of $cientology. Keep up the great work!
—-All evil needs to prevail is for good men to do nothing——–
John McMaster - not // October 29, 2009 at 7:52 pm |
Marty,
Glad I found this site following a link on Steve Hall’s site. Hmmm…. things seem to be falling into place for me (and others too I’m thinking) recently. i.e. A news article re: Paul Haggis, and a link from there to Steve Hall’s site, then NightLine, then here. I’m glad to have you around. I was “in” from 1962 until I “officially” resigned membership in the CO$ right after LRH died. HSS Class VI (from St. Hill UK) and OT-VI.
Best wishes… JMc-not
martyrathbun09 // October 30, 2009 at 12:25 am |
Thanks. I deleted your last line and emailed you.
lorraine // October 29, 2009 at 9:05 pm |
Thank you for your comments about my situation. It is so maddening to think that these people ignore your request to break away. OptOut, you are so right about not even talking to them. They really don’t care what I say…..they always call back. I thank you very much for your suggestions. (I did purchase a whistle and am thinking of using it next phone call~which will be tomorrow I’m quite sure)
LO // October 29, 2009 at 10:56 pm |
Congratulations !
If you compare the stats of scientology.org to your blog on alexa.com, you see that you nearly have the same traffic rank, you’re even better on the time that people stay on your blog and the amount of pages that they look at.
And if we take away the about 30 % of visitors to Scientology.org from asian countries, then we know you beat scientology.org,. With a simple blog by just telling the truth, while COS is wasting millions of dollars to attract people to their website with no expansion. VWD !
martyrathbun09 // October 29, 2009 at 11:09 pm |
LO, Thanks. Well, Haggis made it spike heavily for a couple days there – but the trends are pretty interesting.
Bill // October 30, 2009 at 12:46 am |
I love the prepaid postage and the brick.
Below is the US Code surrounding harassing phone calls along with a site that gives advice on what to do.
I’ve noticed that the more fragile the persons faith the more aggressive they are.
Has anyone tried pulling Fair Game on these fair gamers?
TITLE 47 CHAPTER 5 SUB CHAPTER II Part I § 223
§ 223. Obscene or harassing telephone
(E) makes repeated telephone calls or repeatedly initiates communication with a telecommunications device, during which conversation or communication ensues, solely to harass any person at the called number or who receives the communication
http://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs3-hrs2.htm#3
DanielP // October 30, 2009 at 6:46 pm |
I was in the SO when you were the IG and I was there when Tom Cruise gave his OT V Graduation speech. I have always respected you (still do), unlike the fear I and, I’m sure many others feel of DM. I cannot even begin to fathom how you or Mike Rinder can be labeled as anything remotely coming close to an SP.
In any event, your website has been eye-opening. My greatest concern is for the continued preservation of LRH’s Scientology. It just seems now that the one organization supposed to uphold and enforce the technologies of Dianetics and Scientology has been corrupted nearly beyond salvage. I only wish that you had been able to stage a coup or something from within. If you were able to go back and do so, and handle the degradation of the tech and corruption and insanity of the current administration, I’d be behind you 100%.
I’m aware of “Independent Scientologists”, who are continuing to apply Scientology tech and still receive Grade Chart auditing, but what about the OT levels? Are we to just forget about them until DM is deposed or the Church finally collapses?
martyrathbun09 // October 30, 2009 at 9:51 pm |
Thanks. What about the OT Levels? What about them? They are being delivered on every continent on earth outside of the Church.
CP // October 30, 2009 at 8:12 pm |
Marty,
Ive never been affiliated with the Church but I am very intrigued by all of this. I am a 23 year old male and I was reading about all of the past crimes committed by Hubbards wife and her crew and all of the other clear laws that they broke. Can you tell me….does the Church truly believe in the fiction that L.Ron wrote? They truly believe in Xenu and all of that hogwash? I mean its like a fantasy story that you would find in Lord of the Rings. Im just dumbfounded that people (adults mostly) would buy into this and follow it like a God. I guess I just can’t seem to understand, because when I read all of the information I laugh, its so stupid.
Also, does the Church feel that they are above our government? That they have the right to steal information when they need to benefit themselves?
martyrathbun09 // October 30, 2009 at 9:49 pm |
One man’s fact is another’s fiction. I wouldn’t get too caught up in what someone believes or doesn’t believe as it really doesn’t effect you. Actions that effect people that are witnessed, that is another matter entirely.
CP // November 2, 2009 at 6:22 pm
It’s not that im caught up in what someone else believes but that I am generally curious if thats what they truly believe. I mean the story is ludicrous, is it not? That’s all I really want to know….if they truly believe that…
cinda // October 30, 2009 at 8:21 pm |
Getting money back: I could have sure used someone’s help in getting a refund (repayment) back from CO$. Went @ it the way the church said it had to go, using the form and waiting like a dumb****. Finally after 6 mths of BS run around from Margaret M. , I hired an attorney and within 2 weeks I had my $. This was money that was sitting on account waiting to purchase a course. I’m surprised there isn’t a class action against these fraudsters.
ObserverTyler // October 31, 2009 at 8:10 pm |
Dear Marty,
I must admit that I (along with others) am depressingly observing this drama from the sidelines. I refuse to relinquish whatever hopes remain that the Bridge (in its totality) will still be possible to attain. So when I read this “splinter groups” comment, my mind wobbled a bit, and I was moved to write you.
All S.O. staff (except for select OSA staff) are forbidden to use the Internet, and we all know that a Scientologist in “good standing” cannot per policy associate with SPs — so it does feel awkward when I read Davis trying to disavow any “Disconnection” policy, when I know that that’s what happens. Of course, this policy is polluted by the fact, if true, that DM verbally declares people to be SPs.
It is valid that one cannot make stable gains on the Bridge while connected to an SP — but then again that refers to real, valid SPs. Therefore it is even more awkward if, as you say, DM is an SP. Obviously if what you (and others on your blog) say is true, there needs to be a change as I cannot in my wildest nightmares imagine LRH systematically hitting juniors and/or degrading senior execs in front of others.
What I do know is that someone is lying. I know that RTC owns the legal rights to all the trademarks of Scn and Dianetics. I know that DM has control of RTC. This idea of splinter groups is absurd to me. Only LRH tech allows for such good things as Handling Drug Addiction (Narconon), real rehabilitation of criminals (Criminon), handling and exposing Psych abuses (CCHR), et al. And upper OT levels! No splinter group could offer such help to mankind by the mere fact that they do not own the trademarks; plus there is no way they have all the upper level materials but even if they did, with no C/Sing, Qual, Training, Cramming, etc. it would be non viable.
LRH has defined how our organization is to be structured so that correct training and processing can be delivered. The point (allegedly) that DM has diminished that, while unfortunate, does not mean that it cannot be corrected. DM is a little guy — granted with a lot of guts – plus he is very bright — so it won’t be easy. But splinter groups – please! Independent Scientologists – organized how? Other than a lot of bitching (albeit sincere and somewhat sad), how does that provide and guarantee the Bridge?
As LRH said: “Something can be done about it”. God only knows what — but it something can be done about it. And, per what you have said, something must be done about it. I have questions like: Where is Heber Jentzsch? Where is Pat Broeker? Where is Diana Hubbard? Suzette Hubbard? Arthur Hubbard? Why was Mary Sues’ death not even mentioned by DM? Why was former CO FSO / CO ILO, Ron Norton off loaded? Why was DM’s older brother Ronnie offloaded? Why aren’t these people and other former senior execs (in the same situation) speaking out? I’m guessing it is because they still hold out some hope for getting back on the Bridge and do not want to themselves be declared thus killing any chance they may have.
Do the former wives of yourself, DeVocht, Rinder, Koon, et al and all the other really good people uplines really not see what is going on? [Note: this drama isn’t seen so much at most of the S.O. run orgs i.e. ILO, Flag, CLOs, the AOs; and it is not seen at all at lower orgs except for those of us who see it on the Internet.] I realize that mutiny is not acceptable on staff but then again common sense (what would LRH do?) must reign supreme in the end. What happened to Integrity? They should refresh their memory the next time they attend a Sunday service. Scientology deserves and needs a large number of sane, dedicated, well-trained, well-processed and effective leaders who actually want to expand our religion. I agree that we don’t need megalomaniacs or tyrants.
DM can be turned around. I don’t know if DM has refused to go on the E-meter these last two decades – but if that is true, it is pretty sick. If he doesn’t turnaround, he can be removed however that happens. It is not impossible. But splinter groups? What’s the point? RTC owns the aforementioned trademarks (splinter groups don’t and can’t get them). As the leader of Scientology on this planet we must have someone who lives and breathes LRH, who will oversee the growth and establishment of senior mgmt i.e. a full & effective WDC, a full & effective Exec Strata, a full & effective CMOI, and an RTC that ONLY follows their charter vis-à-vis running roughshod over S.O. run org execs.
Someone “inside” has to organize a handling. Obviously this is far from easy as it appears that DM has systematically removed any worthy (intellectually and skilled) contender for senior leadership. But then I recall some corrupt Roman Emperors, Egyptian Pharaohs, et al that were removed or replaced — usually by those that were closest to the power (who had at one time supported that power) until they saw and cognited on the need to “handle” and correct the observed corruptness.
Granted in those cases, some of the ones that took over were more corrupt than the one removed, but one could expect that that would not be the case uplines considering the quality of people that still remain there. The only other option, should DM either not turnaround on his own or not be handled by others, is that the organization dies. I guess in a convoluted scenario, DM could sell said trademarks to Wall Street, or Mayo, or whomever, and retire on some island. But then again, the organization dies anyway.
I cannot even imagine any experienced auditor or C/S that would stick around and support a corrupt organization. But then without the trademarks, there is not much they could do but what you are doing which is helping with whatever tech you do have – but then again without trained, qualified C/Ses, and without trained, qualified Cramming, and without a trained, qualified Qual Division, etc. etc., it is just a matter of time before that would all collapse into a heap of uselessness.
Christ almighty, look at how DM took over – granted his track record was superb but nonetheless it was a takeover! I never saw or heard anything from LRH about who was to take over when he died— it was just done. What happened to Pat & Annie Broeker? And where are they now?
Remember that when LRH died, Vicki Aznaran was the head of RTC and her husband was the head of Int Security. That’s pretty high up, eh? Yet supposedly, very similar to the removal of the Broekers, DM found a way to convince other that the Aznarans were involved (with others?) in trying to take over the church so as to profit for themselves, and DM got them declared. An amazng bit of politics I’d say. But is DM now taking over the church for himself (same thing)?
I don’t know. I have no problem with Ideal Orgs as in the long run they will be very useful even tho I don’t see the personnel in place to man up such an org and I don’t sense that there is any understanding of what it takes to maintain a 5-story building on an ongoing basis.
I do have a problem with heavy, out-exchange fundraising; and with OTCs being “ordered” (can you believe it) to get lower org public to Flag for Grades! How’s that for cutting the balls off the local org income. This last one does seem pretty destructive to me.
So what really is happening uplines i.e. what are all those other hundreds of well-intentioned staff doing about it? Is Shelley Miscavige really that blind? Is Mark Yager that afraid? Heber, LeServe, Starkey, Hughes, Wilhere, Ingber, Mithoff, Yager, Jenny, Billy, Eastment, Debbie Cook, Foster, Woodruff, et al. Come on!!! ? Even if none of what have portrayed is true, the bad PR alone has a severe negative effect on the church.
Remember that adage when one got in a pickle and didn’t know what to do: “What would LRH do?” Would LRH stand by and watch this alleged travesty continue unabated. We all know the answer! And I have to believe that there are others uplines who also know. The question is — when they do something about it.
ObserverTyler
winsmexico // November 3, 2009 at 1:19 am |
Dear Observer.
I read fully your post.
At the end you say that “We all know the answer”
Can you give that answer for me more clearly as I don´t understand what are you proposing to DO.
Also I wish you could give me your opinion on if is somewhat worthy going public instead of staying underground.
You see this as a “splinter group”.
What´s your proposal?
Roberto Sánchez
Thought provoking // November 3, 2009 at 5:06 pm |
Dear Observer,
I have read your two last posts and I have tossed around many of the thoughts you have originated. I have just recently found out about current events through a non Scn family member and am still doing my homework on what the hell is going on and where do I go from here?
All I know for certain is that a lie is present and changes will be made in the future. I am currently a blown staff member who experienced similar but very very mild, comparatively, senior handlings. Although I do not want to believe these things are occuring to those who have always been my OLs, including DM, I do feel that it is possible. I have always had the intention of handling my ethics situation…and still do, but I wonder about the terminals who will be handling my case. I am going to wait it out and collect more data.
In my experience, following LRH has always been successful. By applying all the Scn tech to this situation, we will be able to ensure Snc is preserved as LRH intended. I don’t expect this to occur overnight and I do expect some PR fallout. But in the end, those that have had the benefit of standard tech, know the results and will stay with it.
Yes, there is betray and conspiracy…but LRH has never betrayed us. LRH had to fight many battles to reward us with his legacy. This is merely another one in which he will need Scn across the planet to keep their integrity in, find the truth and do everything they can to keep Scn here. There will be a lot of doubt formulas, I am sure. I hope that they are down thoroughly, keeping in mind all Black PR and KSW references. I think you and I agree that in this time where stable data has been radically shaken, LRH is our key stable datum. So each of us needs to look personally at the question…what would LRH do?
What I will not do is join a splinter group. LRH made himself very clear on this subject.
martyrathbun09 // November 3, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Thanks. Logan has commented on this before. While clearly we (Jim, me, and a lot of regulars here) think a lot more highly of LRH than DM and his entourage, you’d best realize that you (not LRH) is responsible for you and the decisions you make.
Mary Jo // November 1, 2009 at 1:35 am |
Dear Mosey,
I need to thank you from the bottom of my heart for your incredible help and support. You are the amazing woman behind the man, the one that offers him the strength and support while we all lean on him so heavily. You are helping us so much and are in the background silently holding so much together. I appreciate you and love you.
grrl+dog // November 2, 2009 at 12:09 pm |
Hi Marty,
At last I have found you.
The Rinders introduced me to Scientolgy, and now I see Mike’s name about, and have no idea of what has happened since I left before teh invention of email and mobile phones so I could not be harrassed that way.
So glad to know there is a place to rationally talks about it.
I really want to know some things:
What happened to Mike, Sandy Wilhere, even Jeff Walker.
What do you mean the def of a F/N has been changed? HUH??
Anyway, I guess I’ll just keep reading your blog.
winsmexico // November 4, 2009 at 2:42 am |
This last days I was viewing all the new interviews with Marty, Don, Mark and Jackie in the SP times. Also listening the Marty´s radio interview.
All this in context with the recent declarations of Tommy Davis on disconnection.
Needless to say again about the lie.
Mr. Haggis lived this in his own family.
I have lived this in my own family.
Many of you too.
Almost every people related to Scientology, learning Scientology principles or true Scientologists stop communicating with me long, long before my SP declare went out.
Spooky. Very Spooky.
There´s people that talks about a bright tomorrow but his actions leave only destruction; might this be an example of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F__ikND3SoA
Excellent speech; but the results after some years?
All for being only capable of listen and no more.
No.
We need to look.
Really look.
This takes me to search more about it to be more prepared to enlighten people about the subject. I can see on youtube many interviews done back on the 70´s, 80´s and 90´s that came after the same issues: Money, Disconnection, Harassments, you name it.
One can ask to oneself (flow zero) if this is not new; why is it going to change and make an impact?
IMHO the main difference is the power and speed of communication of the world wide web and key renowned people having guts to go public and make a big effort to REFORM (not destroy) our church. For many scientologist this blogs would be, and ARE, a real little opportunity to have a flash view, as a stroke, of the real thing inside the bag. Many will confront the view. Many would not.
I have never told this but one of the main reasons I go public and stand tall about all this is from a life-changing lecture I listen back in 2001: “Individualization” from FEBC lectures (you can find it also in the “Responsibility and state of OT” lectures). I will not go into explain or share wins about it but if you read it you will understand a lot about my stand.
But the work is also in big measure IMHO for the people new to Scientology, this new “generation X”kids that are going to start to search for freedom sooner or later. They fortunately would find Scientology and find all the outpoints of his application past, present and could take it with certain in his future; able to evade the same traps. They could find the value of the data. Will be able of evaluate the data and take only what´s true for them.
And many of this for our humble work.
Might the History proves us right or wrong.
Only the History.
Now; with the internet, the history is real; not told by those who won the battles or have more power.
As long as search engines and video reproducers (google, youtube and others) keep on showing all results taking no side on the ring; we got a BIG chance to enlighten people on the subject so this way they can take an informed decision.
Any worldwide organization or civilization needs to change eventually and review his patterns or is crushed by his own lack of ability. For some of us that deal for years with THE REAL WORLD and know issues like globalization, migrations, poverty sectors and the power of corporations is a very clear picture.
We can´t change all mankind´s wrongdoings; but it happens to be that we are here in the middle of a subject we know well and CAN really do something effective about it.
IMHO there´s no US and THEY. We can change conditions of the people for better. No matter if you consider yourself a Scientologist an antiScientologist, an agnostic or God or Angel or whatever you want to call yourself. You can do a lot for people and put a little order around you.
What´s all this has to do with current CofS upper management lies, disconnection policies and Ex-SO members speaking out?
This: We must not fall into the same mistake. Believe we are all right and stop focusing on the real purpose: Improve conditions.
We need to face the unstoppable force versus the unmovable point.
IMHO can I suggest you to open your Flow zero communication a little bit more and start to listen to yourself?
It might be ridiculous for some to listen to his own heart and duplicate what must be done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce7p74D79LM
I might be wrong; but I want to help.
Roberto Sánchez Núñez
martyrathbun09 // November 4, 2009 at 2:51 am |
Bravo, Roberto.
Mary Jo // November 4, 2009 at 11:26 pm |
Bravisimo!!! Muchas gracias Roberto. You are a very brave and honorable person. And your duplication of the tech is awesome – enlightening and inspiring. And thanks for the song too!
winsmexico // November 5, 2009 at 7:22 am
Thanks Mary Jo.
I appreciate that you take time to read my comment in full.
Do very well and I hope you decide to carry on helping at a lot of us big time!
Your background, level as a being and care is very much needed to a lot of people.
Please; carry on.
Roberto
Bayne Holley // November 4, 2009 at 11:35 pm |
Hi Marty:
Just wondering if you were associated with the old L.A. Org back around summer 1974. I was only there for a few months, but I seem to remember a ‘Marty Rathbun’ being one of my auditors. Just wondering if it was you.
I may be mistaken, but thought I’d ask.
Hope all is going well.
Bayne Holley
martyrathbun09 // November 5, 2009 at 4:03 am |
Hi. Wasn’t me. I took my first course in 77.
SwanFlower // November 5, 2009 at 9:57 pm |
Hi Marty,
I got dissillusioned a few years back, when the emphasis seemed to switch from service delivery to demand for cash and selling MEST.
The internet seems so full of nonsense & lies, but your site, when I found it made a lot of sense.
Do they still force families to disconnect? Is it a real threat these days. Its about the only thing holding me back, so obviously the idea has some control over me. Here in a backwater outer org we rarely hear of an SP declare. People just stop coming – stop answering the phone – you never know why really – whether they just decided to quit and never told anyone, or they got declared and accepted their fate.
What can you expect if you jump ship?
SwanFlower // November 5, 2009 at 10:06 pm |
Hi Marty,
I got dissillusioned a few years back, when the emphasis seemed to switch from service delivery to demand for cash and selling MEST.
The internet seems so full of nonsense & lies, but your site, when I found it made a lot of sense.
Do they still force families to disconnect? Is it a real threat these days. Its about the only thing holding me back, so obviously the idea has some control over me. Here in a backwater outer org we rarely hear of an SP declare. People just stop coming – stop answering the phone – you never know why really – whether they just decided to quit and never told anyone, or they got declared and accepted their fate.
What can I expect to happen if I leave?
martyrathbun09 // November 5, 2009 at 10:10 pm |
Yes on disconnect – take a look at the posts over the past two weeks. All depends on how you leave. If you just fade away, no problem. If you burn bright – the reaction is directly proportional to the magnitude of lumens you emit.
Tory Christman // November 10, 2009 at 3:27 am |
People should be able to speak out and think for themselves, no matter how they leave…and that’s per the Creed of a Scientologist. I shall continue to speak out against Disconnection, as I truly believe it is one of THE most destructive actions within C of $.
Either way, I’m happy you’re out, Marty, and thank you for doing the interviews you have!
Nice web site, too
Tory Christman
aka: Magoo! http://www.youtube.com/ToryMagoo44
Anon // November 16, 2009 at 1:22 am |
Marty,
You have left corporate Scientology, but you are still a Scientologist. So, do you still believe some of the silly stuff? Specifically, do you still believe that you have control over MEST? Do you believe that you can move objects with your mind? Do you believe that you have psychic powers?
martyrathbun09 // November 16, 2009 at 2:27 am |
Doesn’t everybody?
Kirsi Ojamo // November 19, 2009 at 7:22 pm
What a great response.
Jane // November 18, 2009 at 12:04 am |
Marty,
I have been tracking this blogspot for several weeks now. I find what you’re doing to be very refreshing and eye-opening. Thank you for all that you are doing to bring truth to the table. You have my support and I hope to meet you someday soon.
MWBAILEY // November 19, 2009 at 7:40 pm |
Marty,
My interest in Scientology faded after I left in the early 80’s and eventually that interest corrupted into contempt after the internet backlash in the 90’s. I went about my life, had a family (wonderful!) and came to despise the COS and anyone who supported the obvious criminality and abuse of the organization.
However, one day I stumbled onto the Scientology-cult site and then found your blog and was impressed with the honesty in both. The more I read, the more charge flew off my case. It was like having dozens of out-lists and ARC breaks correctly indicated. I went exterior and had a huge floating needle for days.
Remembering when the tech really worked as both an auditor and as a pc, I know how important correct indication, acknowledgement and cognition are in furthering the case. What applies to the first dynamic applies to the third.
So EOS..
The above was my statement to the examiner. Take a win. End that cycle.
I’ve read much clambering and yapping about you, and I’m not here to praise or condemn. But I appreciate what you’re doing. Hopefully, those stuck in all that antagonism and BPC will get or cognite on the correct indication, understand their condition, note the source and move on to happier things. And if they really had the right why, they wouldn’t be so pissed. Life’s too wonderful to be stuck in all the hate, anger, antagonism, grief and the rest.
I don’t doubt that some of your past deeds have been destructive to others. So, who’s to cast the first stone? LRH certainly had his flaws. But, so what? His insights might just correct the mess we’re all in on this planet. And what you’re doing now may actually tip the scale in favor of the good guys (those who truly want increased ARC and understanding across all dynamics.) If none of us had a case, we wouldn’t be in this situation. At the end of the day, the messes and bruises are less important than the good we’ve caused and the understanding we’ve increased.
That said, my interest in LRH has been renewed and I’m curious about how much his lectures have been altered. One benefit of DM’s push for book and lecture sales was a glut in the marketplace, making ebay a cheap place to pick up tech. From what I’ve read the alterations aren’t that severe. I doubt that anyone out of valence would have sufficient understanding to grasp the basics sufficiently to see what was important to alter and what was not.
As for the disconnection fiasco, I also believe a person has to be at least slightly out of valence to lack enough ARC to differentiate between an actual suppressive and someone protesting breach of policy and tech (so, all this disconnection seems to be from individuals who aren’t being themselves–tsk, tsk.) How down tone must an individual fall to agree to cut a theta line for the purpose of furthering an entheta line? Such actions certainly don’t make one more OT. Cutting a theta line is an overt which is going to snap back on the poor buggers. I feel for them. Ouch!!!!
But, as a guiding light, all theta remains after the entheta clears. A little entheta never hurt a thetan. Neither did a lot. We just learn, clean up the mess and start a new day. And cognitions are a hell of a lot of fun.
So, if my question got lost in all the philosophical waxing and waning–in your experience, how much have the lectures as currently on the market as CDs been altered?
martyrathbun09 // November 19, 2009 at 9:52 pm |
MWB,
This is what it is all about. Thank you for sharing your win. On the CDs, I really haven’t a clue. I’ve pointed out the nasty PDC lecture alteration. Otherwise, I don’t know that it is such a broad situation. Some day when we get some more resources, I’d like to commission some folks to do a side by side comparison of every book and tape.
Jane // November 19, 2009 at 10:06 pm |
Is it possible to re-post that info about the alteration in the PDC lectures? I remember reading it somewhere, but don’t remember where.
I think Chris was working on that kind of project.
martyrathbun09 // November 19, 2009 at 10:21 pm |
Check the taglines on the right hand column of the front page of the blog and I am sure you can find it fairly fast.