Woohoo! Good news.

sorry, i know i'm only english but why exactly, in the land of the free and the country of the brave should a person's sexuality be an issue?

after all I see on larry king and fox news all the time that the usa is briliant because of all their freedoms...

To second Sir Galahad: Hurrah! Keep up the good work. I hope this will have further ramifications for the eventual eradication of DADT.
Who you choose to sleep with ought to have no bearing on your employment, and particularly seems so with such an unselfish occupation as Margaret Witt's. Good luck to her!

jakartacasual - you hit the nail on the head. To believe that someone's sexuality affects their ability to perform their role in the military (or any profession) is absolutely ridiculous.

If someone is homosexual, it means they are sexually attracted to people of the same sex - end of story. It seems the USA military subscribe to the antiquated belief that homosexuality, perversion and the inability to control one's sexual urges are one and the same.

Someone please remind what year / century we're in?

Let's hope this ruling is enforced, and not delayed forever by appeals.
Denying gays the right to serve their country in the military has never made any sense whatsoever. It's annoying to have to keep bringing up the history of great military units comprised of gays - starting with the Greeks but probably going back even further.
The idea that any gay would join the miltary just to give him/herself a chance to pick up lovers is so ridiculous and insulting. So much easier to go to the local gay bar, without the rislk of being shot at or blown up.

jakartacasual - The US is the epicentre for the (hate filled) Christian fundamentalists

And moderators don't delete this as it is true. Fundamentalism in this area is growing and so is the Islamaphobia.

Looks like their gay and lesbian community want their equal right to bomb islamic towns and people too.

Even the most fierce of the real Xian bigots and the most evil and cynical of their calculating political masters (though not the completely insane third of their membership) KNOWS that this is a very, very dead issue. They have lost, lost, lost.

Unless they can locate the leaders of teh Gay, create a time machine and send a murderous android back to kill them all, there is no chance their twisted views will be law in even five years, and maybe not even one - if President Obama decides to lead instead of surrender when his principles are at issue.

I don't wish these sad people ill, even the many very evil-minded among them. But I do want to see them utterly and properly defeated on matters like these.

f someone is homosexual, it means they are sexually attracted to people of the same sex - end of story. It seems the USA military subscribe to the antiquated belief that homosexuality, perversion and the inability to control one's sexual urges are one and the same.

Right on Zoob1! I'm sick of people suggesting that the military is going to turn into some kind of gay orgy if DADT goes away. Plus the normal laws will apply. A straight person can't make unwanted advances towards another military member, and neither can a gay or lesbian person. It's time for equal protection for all.

Looks like their gay and lesbian community want their equal right to bomb islamic towns and people too.

When Witt was serving in the 90s she spent quite a bit of time helping to defend Islamic towns in the Balkans from Christians.

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At one time the United States lead the world in advancing human rights. Over the last 30 years the US has had to be brought kicking and screaming into the 21st century to catch up with the developed world.

When full rights are finally granted to gay Americans there is one further right which needs to be addressed by the American justice system. The right for non-Americans to be treated as human beings with the full set of rights that American citizens have when dealing with the US government.

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Nobody is a homophobe in a foxhole, a soldier needs a buddy. Once the fighting ends they both go into town,one goes into a dance hall, and the other into a gay bar. When they return to the war zone their friendship resumes.

And the US were late once again and didn't help out those thousands that were butchered.

This is the problem with being the sole superpower. You're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

If you intervene in a country in crisis, you're labeled as imperialist warmongers (Haiti or Kosovo for example).

If you don't intervene or are slow, you're labeled as heartless and uncaring (Rwanda, Liberia, Bosnia).

The kicker is that regardless of your course of action, it's usually the same people who throw barbs America's way.

I look forward to China overtaking the US...let them have a taste of the fruits of power.

Durandal: "I look forward to China overtaking the US...let them have a taste of the fruits of power."

The difference is that while the Chinese are happy to believe that they beat the Japanese without fully acknowledging the importance of the Pacific war in the Japanese defeat, they are not so stupid as to take on the role of world's policeman, or to believe - and tell other people - that they can right all wrongs.

America is in its current military position (overstretched and overspent) because it has swallowed the poisonous myth that it won the Second World War and that it liberated Europe. Its whole stance for the last 60 years has been built on that: Good vs Evil, spreading Freedom, Knowing What's Best.

And it's as if they've failed to notice that many wars since (specifically, since 1950) have been stalemate (Korea), standoff (the Cold War), or defeat (Vietnam). They've even managed to win wars and then lose them, as Iraq and Afghanistan have been showing us for the last ten years.

China, for all its many faults, is unlikely to prove that stupid. They'll taste the fruits, alright, and leave the shit to the Americans, who will continue to lap it up until they learn not to. Or just run out of money and can't even afford to eat shit anymore.

I always wondered what happened to her after she gave up ice skating.

icerat:

China, for all its many faults, is unlikely to prove that stupid. They'll taste the fruits, alright, and leave the shit to the Americans

I don't know, the Chinese are starting to get pretty cocky lately. Have you been watching the reports about that fisherman who was arrested by Japan? Quite the strong response from Beijing over a fishing boat. Chinese nationalism is building quickly, make no mistake. My money is on Chinese military intervention in Taiwan or the Spratly Islands by 2020. Arrogance and adventurism are not uniquely American traits.

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@Icerat

Your assessment of the U.S. as fighting for " freedom" is so simplistic as to be ridiculous. You are not taking into account the political power-mongering that goes into these decisions.

I mean, really, G.W. Bush and cronies actually lied to the American people, and the U.N., etc, to bring about the war in Iraq because they knew that the "We will bring them Freedom and Democracy!" argument wasn't going to cut it. No, it was, "We will bring down the evil dictator and, oh, by the way, they have weapons of mass destruction and were in some way responsible for 9/11..."

But what was really going on was that the Neo-cons wanted a puppet regime in the middle east as a base for operations. There was no "freedom" ever intended.

Obama hasn't had to do as much jingo-slinging because the ball's already rolling and he's ostensibly winding this all down. But we'll see what happens with Iran, won't we?

Yes, a certain segment of the U.S. population really believes our intentions are wholly good, because that's the rhetoric that they're fed. I may be insanely optimistic, but with all the information now available to people with questions about why and how these wars are perpetrated and fought, it is only a matter of time before the wool is pulled off entirely. What happens then? We shall see.

This is a great moment for homosexuals and their fight for equality and justice in the US. My only concerns are that the Obama administration, worried about upsetting too many centre right voters, will backpeddle on the pledge to end the DADT policy or that (in the worst of all possible worlds) the Palin/O'Donnell nightmare wins the next election.

Still, these are matters for the future to decide. For now congratulations to Ms Witt and all those who serve their country, but cannot reveal their sexual identity for fear of recriminations and dismissal.

If anything exposes the limits of identity politics this does. Am I meant to applaud because the US military are now feminist, not anti-gay and non-racist? I don't see equal opportunity to bomb Afghan villages as a victory (and before anyone points out she was a nurse, the principle still applies).

A great victory for Margaret Witt and civil rights.

But in 2003 Witt began a relationship with a married woman, whose husband later outed her to the air force.

I knew there's be a man behind her troubles somewhere. I wonder if his name was lakespear?

@usini

One step at a time. If a society limits or stigmatizes its own citizens because of their sexuality, race, minority opinions or anything else that does not fit a narrow minded ideology, those who live outside of it are hardly likely to get a fair shake are they? I would argue that a society that cherishes diversity and espouses and protects its citizens civil liberties is one which is far more likely to reject military intervention and invasion as representing foreign policy.

Catburglar: "But what was really going on was that the Neo-cons wanted a puppet regime in the middle east as a base for operations. There was no "freedom" ever intended."

I have little doubt that you are right. But a sufficient proportion of the American population is prepared to endorse these wars, and to put the people in power who launch them. There is also a level of flagwaving in the US not really seen in other advanced democracies.

That's before we even mention the unquestioning support given to the men and women in the military - an attitude that, like it or not, leads to more wars. Do you honestly think politicians don't draw on that?

It was much easier for Bush to get his invasion of Iraq than for Blair to offer our halfhearted British support for your adventure. He had to do it against the wishes of a huge chunk of the British population. Next time round, it'll be even harder.

These wars are not just the fault of a neocon administration, but also of a population that is far too willing to believe the nationalistic swill fed to them on a daily basis. It really is Americans who yak on about freedom more than other people: not because they've got more of it, but because they think they have.

And exactly what principle is that usini?

Kindly spell it out.

Yeah, lesbians should have the right to kill women and children in Iraq and Afghanistan too!
Wow what a victory!

And sorry, but while there are many Americans who oppose these military obscenities, one reason the US went into Iraq with a high degree of public support, despite the huge (and what should have been instructive) trauma inflicted on America by Vietnam a generation earlier, was that people believed Ali was going to be more of a pushover than Charlie.

America is still at the very bottom of the pile when it comes to learning from mistakes.

Why in God's name would anyone in their right mind want to join the freekin military anyway? Must be a psychopath.

responsible for transporting injured and wounded soldiers in flying intensive care units.

If I was wounded soldier needing intensive care treatment on a plane the last thing I'd be worrying about would be the sexual orientation of the person treating me.

The limits of identity politics is that it focuses on what you are rather than what you think or what you do.
Another example on the fromt page here is Licia Ronzulli. I am sure that many people feel that she was striking a blow for women's rights when she took her baby into parliament. Pity that she is a member of a racist party that attacks Roma and also acted as chaperone for the girls that Burlesconi invited to Villa Certosa.

A great victory for Margaret Witt and civil rights.

But in 2003 Witt began a relationship with a married woman, whose husband later outed her to the air force.

I knew there's be a man behind her troubles somewhere. I wonder if his name was lakespear?

Now thats the kinda comment that really annoys me

The judge Leighton also ruled that Witt's rights under the US constitution's fifth amendment had been violated, and that she should be restored to her position "as soon as is practicable".

Her employer had violated her rights under the US Constitution.

Nothing to do with identity politics but a straightforward constitutional matter.

That's the principle at stake here.

StanMarsh

Now thats the kinda comment that really annoys me

Care to share the reason for your annoyance?

@icerat

Do you live in the USA? You are so spot on in your observations of the flag waving,military adoring population.
How's this for an example; at the Colorado Rockies games they not only play the National Anthem before every game, but now they are also playing America the Beautiful. And so it goes.
BTW I do live in the US.

I deapair of anyone who enters into military service, especially as they often have to fight in illegal wars (Iraq) or put their lives on the line to defend the indefensible (Afghanistan).
When we should be campaigning against war, we are being distracted by the war in our unequal society.
Things would move quicker if all lesbians and gay men walked out of the military and told them to stuff it.
Actually, things would be even better if everybody walked out of the military and told them to stuff it.

@icerat

Much of what you say is indeed true, but think for a minute about this decision by the federal judge. He has said that Ms Witt's constitutional rights have been abused. This is one in a series of such judgements lately and it represents an important milestone because, after decades of right wing ideology appearing to be unassailable, one of the sacred cows of that ideology - the military, has been told to readmit a, by now very openly, gay woman to its ranks. Against the recently expressed wishes of the Congress and senior military figures.

In my book this shows that the aforementioned ideology is now being challenged and the more that it is the better. I don't know if you are old enough to remember the Vietnam War, but I am and I remember how the pressure put on the US government by its own citizens was a large factor in persuading it to withdraw from that awful venture. The US is a very different country now, but if rational judgements continue to be made and the civil rights of citizens upheld there is hope that pendulum will swing the other way and the neocon agenda will be seen for what it is - an abberation.

I am always amazed at much DADT supporters loathe their militar;, imagine publicly declaring that you believe the brave men and women serving on your behalf are SO inferior to the armed forces of numerous other nations that they would be unable to succesfully integrateopenly gay and lesbian troops like all the others have.

The bigots should really have a little more confidence in the US military.

The radical right is losing the battle on gay rights - see the trend here. This is why either immigrants or Muslims are being trialled as the replacement "social group in society on whom all ills can be blamed". One congressman was kind enough to make this explicit.

As others have pointed out, what a soldier does in his/her freetime is small potatoes compared to what they do in their worktime. Any soldier who Does Ask what gives their country the right to bomb, shoot, torture and discriminate and Does Tell the world the unreported, ignored reality of what is going on in Iraq and Afghanistan in the name of what exactly, is pilliorised and prosecuted (such as in the case of Bradley Manning).

Soldiers are effectively trained to kill and to do so without questioning why. They inhabit a world that is increasingly a threat to us all, the military-industrial complex NEEDS wars and conflicts because otherwise profits would be lost and soldiers would lose their raison d'etre. The balance has tipped. Wars happen because armies need them and are constantly on the lookout for them. Why Margaret Witt would fight so hard to go back into that world and play a part in the next catatstrophe (Iran, Mexico?) is absolutely beyond me.

As a Zen Buddist i cannot get my head around this armed services fiasco.If i was a pilot in a dog fight for my life, i would want the best pilot i had in my squadron alongside me ,protecting my "rear door" -wing man.I would not care about her/his religion,sexual preferences,religion as long as they had proved them worthy of their place in the squadron on ability and had my respect as a professional.Most of all saved my skin from an attack on my "back door".

Think about it !.The Armed Forces should be about" Life and Death" as far as i am concerned the failure of the SAS to let women complete the entrance test (some women were pulled out at the last stage, to stop them passing the course) but,the Secret Service put women into Northern Ireland undercover.So there is hypocrisy here,if they can operate in a deadly arena like IRA infiltration i think they can handle SAS.If you like make up SAS mark two .Women and gays but,if they are good enough we need the best we can get.What is you problem,you want to die because the best candidate to protect you was dismissed, because they were gay?.Are you mad !.

Time Obama spoke out and said "there is no discrimination on colour (Vietnam War, blacks were conscripted while a lot of middle class whites avoided draft by "going to college,joining National Guard part time,fighting decade long legal fight,left country) so let there be no discimination of sexual orientation,after all this is America "land of the Free".

Thank goodness, let's hope Obama steps in and has the guts to repeal the DADT.

Sad that America has operated this way and denied freedoms to so many for so long, whilst personal liberties for all have been minimised, by the likes of Bush.

Quite right too, excellent decision.

So McCain achieved precisely nothing with his filibuster of the DADT repeal - apart from looking like a knob and making us remember how glad we all were when Obama was elected :)

I generally think people joining the army are nuts, pure and simple, not to mention that almost everyone I've known who signed up or joined was an aggressive yob to begin with, in the best-of-worst-of Squaddie fashion..

But.

Whatever about some elements of the army, and the wretched nature of war and violence that plays out in dozens of theatres of war on a daily basis, it does a tremendous disservice to everyone in armies to just pour scorn on them. It belittles the vital peacekeeping and humanitarian work that armies also do on a daily basis around the world, and not just in natural disasters or in times of mass crises etc.

But, most of all, it shames the dead - and shames us, the living - to be so blase about what armies have done, whether for us, our parents or grandparents, or for others. War is evil. But the vast ranks of fallen armies deserve respect. I may not personally agree with (or individually like) those who sign up to armies, but I'll at least respect them. And it would be good to note a touch more of that sentiment, above.

More firmly back on track, and one's sexuality is irrelevant to soldiering. Utterly irrelevant. Even if I was Straight, I'd think the same think - what on earth does whether someone is a gay man or a lesbian woman have to do with following orders and completing training? What a dumb decision, but certain segments of America's power systems are as proud of the things they do Wrong as the things they get Right, as the past decade in particular has emphasised. It shames and belittles the great idea of American equality that we still hold as an ideal for what an American 'is'.

What might one of America's greatest citizens have said of such a wilful denial of equality, based on prejudice?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."

jakartacasual

sorry, i know i'm only english but why exactly, in the land of the free and the country of the brave should a person's sexuality be an issue? after all I see on larry king and fox news all the time that the usa is briliant because of all their freedoms...

You are missing the singularly most critical freedom a nation can have, that humanity itself can have. From the dawn of time, men and women, irrespective of colour, or creed, or nation, or status, have had one global wish and one global wish alone - that a lesbian does not save the life of a man in an airplane.

If humanity cannot prevent women who find other women sexually attractive from healing the wounded at thirty thousand feet, what hope is there for our species?

No. That's how much hope there is now, none. Wait and see, plagues of flying medically-capable lesbians will blot out the sun with the unholy trinity of girl-on-girl, aeronautics, and first-aid.

Okay, irony aside it's nice to see this ruling at last, but it's a tragedy a fucking court has bigger blacker bollocks than the fucking tail-between-his-legs useless President has on this.

Vercoda - Bill Hicks said the same thing you did but slightly more succinctly: anyone stupid enough to want to join the army should be allowed to do so.

Great! I'd also like to point out that to assume that gays in the military is a recent phenomenon is sheer stupidity as anyone who has read any of the literature surrounding, say, the first and second world wars would know. The same applies to anyone who has spoken to a close relative who served in WWII.

When I used to live near a naval port in the UK I always assumed the Wrens were lesbian until I found out otherwise.:-)

Care to share the reason for your annoyance?

I knew there's be a man behind her troubles somewhere.

Strikes me as not needed.

StanMarsh

So that's a yes to undermining the effectiveness of the US military in a fit of pique, in order to settle a personal score?

Finally! Some sanity at last. At least one judge realises that being gay doesn't mean a soldier is going to make everyone in their unit uncomfortable and then try and have sex with them all.

StanMarsh

So that's a yes to undermining the effectiveness of the US military in a fit of pique, in order to settle a personal score?

Both men and women are capable of settling personal scores. Your comment implied to me that this ladies problems stem from a man. I consider it is uneccessary to bring sex in to it.